1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, come on in Hio. Where are you? 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: I'm good, Larry, Little Susie Peters, how Larry John Sorry, 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 2: we have to hug. Yeah. Good Singulary, Good, Singulary. Welcome 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: to a special bonus episode of Monster BTK. This is 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: a sit down interview I did with my former k 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: TV colleague Larry Hadiberg last summer. I caught up with 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: Larry at his home in Wichitah. He and I reflect 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: on our work together covering the BTK story all these 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: years later. 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: So what does it feel like for both you to 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: have such a major role in the BTK story. 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: We felt like we needed to be part of the 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: process of catching him, and we knew every time we 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: would say something on TV or we would do a story, 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: which was ever all day, but we knew every time 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: we would react to his communications was the chance for 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: him to communicate again. And all we were trying to 18 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: do is the media, in addition to informing the public, 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: was to try and get communication out of him. And 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: I know there was one instance with you, Larry, where 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: you said something directly to him on the air. 22 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Yes, I decided that we should communicate with him because 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: my feeling was if he's communicating with us, He's not 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: killing So I went on the air and said BTK 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: if you're listening, and then gave a little spiel about that, 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: indicating that the PD wanted to keep the communication going, 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: and then we got some feedback. I do remember one 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: of the postcards that we got talked about you and 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: Jeff having a cold on the air, and that was 30 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: I think after I had gone on the air and 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: asked for the communications to continue. 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: BTK from the get go made the media and in 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 2: particular CAKETV, part. 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: Of the story, and I think for a journalist that's 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: a terrible place to be. Is part of the story, 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: but there was no way to get out of it 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: because he enjoyed communicating with Cake TV. CAKETV was his 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: favorite station. He had watched it since he was a child. 39 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: He had been out there when we brought in Renten 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: ten one time, when ABC came out. He had been 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: out there for other children's shows. So he was very 42 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: much a part of the Cake family. He knew all 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: of us. He watched it every night. He still watches 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: it to this day, and it's a very odd feeling 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: to go to work every day and know that you 46 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: have to feed the national media, you have to feed 47 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: the local media, because many times Susan and I would 48 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: either be on a morning show or an evening show 49 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: like Larry King Live back in the day, and you're 50 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: serving two masters. And in journalism there is no book 51 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: written about how you do this. You know, we were 52 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: writing the book on how you cover BTK when you 53 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: are part of the story, and that was very difficult 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: for me. 55 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but it made me feel 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: a little bit gratified that we had a small part 57 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: in finally getting the sky well. 58 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: I think if it wasn't for the media, the communications 59 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: might have stopped. The very difficult part for me was 60 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: working with the police department. They did a great job 61 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: over the thirty years. It was a tough case. But 62 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: when we would get a postcard, obviously the police department 63 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: would want a copy of that postcard. Well, we would 64 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: give them the original and we would have a copy. 65 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: But it became many times a little difficult because the 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: police department, i think, sometimes resented us because we were 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: part of the story and they didn't want the media 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: to be part of the story. We couldn't help it, 69 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: we were, and so here we are trying to do 70 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: our job while the police department is trying to do theirs. 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: I had one thing happen in which we got a 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: postcard that indicated there was a package or another message 73 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: at one of the It was like a low's I 74 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: forget what It wasan home depot, that's right. So I 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: went out to Home Depot and we'd call the detectives 76 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: to come out to the station to get it. I 77 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: arrived there before they did. I went in talked to 78 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: the manager. I said, did you get a package? 79 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 2: No? 80 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: Did you get a message from anyone that was unusual? 81 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: And I never used the term BTK? And he said no. 82 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: I said, okay. Later on in that day I get 83 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: a call from the district attorney indicating that they would 84 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: like to see me, the general man, manager, the news director, 85 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: and our attorney in her office eight am the next morning. 86 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: And when we got to her office, she said, you 87 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: arrived before the detectives And I said, well, that's a 88 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: matter of physics. Our station is just closer. She said, 89 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: but you got there ahead of them, and I said, 90 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: I walked in to home Depot like any other customer 91 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: would do. I asked a couple of questions. He didn't 92 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: have any answers. I left, and she said, we're considering 93 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: charging you with a felony interfering with a federal investigation. 94 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: And I said, how did I interfere? Tell me how 95 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: I interfered? I just walked in the store, asked the 96 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: manager a couple of questions, and left. And there wasn't 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: a great answer for that, and our attorney was already 98 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: going crazy. But I think what was happening was the 99 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: police department was feeling pressure from the media and didn't 100 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: like someone, as it appeared, showing up and interfering with 101 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: their investigation. So I took that as a warnt. But 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: that's the only time that I ever got crossways with them. 103 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: Like you say, our goal was the same, but we 104 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: had two goals, and that was informing the public and 105 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: catching BTK. Their only mission was to catch BTK, So 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: sometimes it crossed ways. And sometimes the investigators totally loved 107 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: us and used us, which we had no problem with. 108 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: But sometimes we crossed the line because we had another job. 109 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: And there were several times when I was am I 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: walking the line all right, and police would say no, 111 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: in so many words, you're not walking the line. All right, 112 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: go back to your journalism. And so it was a 113 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: very very tough thing. There was one time when I 114 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: called Detective John Spear during the ten o'clock news because 115 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: the guy who they thought was BTK that they arrested, 116 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: and said, who is this guy that you arrested? DA. 117 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: Of course he couldn't tell me, And the next day 118 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: I got a call from him and he said, don't 119 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: ever call me direct again. That kind of thing. So 120 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: the problem was we wanted to inform the public and 121 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: still get the scoop, so to speak. We never wanted 122 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: to ruin any investigation. We did follow the police department's 123 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: rules as much as we could because we wanted to 124 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: catch him as much as they did, because we were 125 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 2: in fear for our lives. 126 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: And a really strange thing was the day that I 127 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: had two detectives who I knew, both of them show 128 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: up in the front lobby of KKETV. They said, Larry, 129 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: is there someone where we can talk private? So I 130 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: took him up into the conference room and they said, Larry, 131 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: we need your DNA and I said why do you 132 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: need my DNA? And he says, well, we're getting tips 133 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: to the BTK hotline. That you're BTK. And I said, 134 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: why are they saying I'm BTK? And they said, well, 135 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: when you talk about it on television, you seem to 136 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: know a lot about it. You've been to the crime scenes, 137 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: you've followed it since nineteen seventy four, and what we're 138 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: trying to do is to rule you out. And I said, okay, 139 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: let's do it. So they swabbed me and I said, 140 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: how will I know for the results? And they said, well, 141 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: if you don't see a swat team coming into Cake, 142 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: you'll know that you passed. I said, okay. 143 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: They swabbed some two hundred people. I knew two or 144 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: three people were swabed. Not only Larry Hadiberg, the godfather 145 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: of my second child, was swabbed as well, because he 146 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: went to Wichita State the same time as BTK. That's 147 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: what was so weird about all this. We knew BTK 148 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: was the guy next door. What if he really was 149 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: the guy next door? What if he really was Yeah, 150 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: what if he really was the godfather of my child? 151 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: You know? What if he really was an anchor person? 152 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: I mean, nobody knew at that particular point in time. 153 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: That was also frightening. Of course, I knew it wasn't Larry. 154 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: But thank you. But at the time, we're not talking 155 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: about each other's feelings. We're just trying to survive the 156 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: day to get the story on the air. She's working 157 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: her sources, I'm working my sources. I remember one day 158 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: we showed up at btk's attorney's office together. 159 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: At the same time. 160 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: I didn't know she was going to be there. She 161 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: didn't know I was going to be there, you know. 162 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: So we're all trying to do our job, but we're 163 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: not talking to each other about feelings. What we're talking 164 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: about is trying to get the story and trying to 165 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: inform the public. And that's what is so weird. Just 166 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: us talking about it now is probably the first time 167 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: we have ever talked about feelings about it, because the 168 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: rest of the time it was just the job. We're 169 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: doing the job and we're trying to inform the public 170 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: to the best way that we can. And Susan and 171 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: I weren't working together. She was working on her stories. 172 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: I was working on my stories. But in reality, we 173 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: were working together because of this thing of trying to 174 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: inform the public. So it was a different time. 175 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: Larry's one hundred percent right. We didn't talk about our feelings. 176 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: Larry had no idea how scared I was. No one 177 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: had any idea how scared I was. We didn't talk 178 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: about things like that. Larry and I never talked about 179 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: her anyone in the newsroom. I'm afraid we hate this guy. 180 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: No feelings were talked about at all. 181 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Do you remember one night when we were walking out 182 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: of Cake. It was quarter eleven or so, and we 183 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: get just past the concrete stepping into the thing, and 184 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: a bicyclist is down at the end of our driveway 185 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: and he comes at us seemed like one hundred miles 186 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: an hour, and I thought we're in trouble. Thought I 187 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: didn't know who that guy was. And he's coming at 188 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: us a one hundred miles an hour on that bicycle 189 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: pulls up in front of us, and I thought we're 190 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: going to shot stab something here something. And he was 191 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: just a viewer. But I felt fair at that point, 192 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you did. 193 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 2: I was glad you were with me. I had tremendous fear. 194 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: BTK knew where we were every single day at ten 195 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: o'clock and ten thirty and six o'clock and six thirty 196 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: after we got the postcard that said, I hope Susan's 197 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: and Jeff's cold gets better. From that day on, I 198 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: had a reporter or a photographer follow me all the 199 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: way home because he knows where we are. He was 200 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 2: watching us every night. 201 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: In this case, I mean, we really care about each other, 202 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: and we've anchored together and done so many projects over 203 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: the course of time that I think we really understand 204 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: each other. And as I say, we don't agree on everything, 205 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: but that's okay. You know, that's okay. We are completely 206 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: and totally different personalities, but Susan is the finest co 207 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: anchor slash anchor who I've ever worked with in my career, 208 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: and we understood each other. We don't always agree on everything, 209 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: but I love her to death and always will because 210 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: she is the most professional anchor that I have ever 211 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to be with. And when we were 212 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: anchoring together, if I got into trouble, she could take over, 213 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: and she knew instantly if she got into trouble, I 214 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,599 Speaker 1: took over and we saved each other that way, and 215 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: we did that without talking. We just instinctively could respond 216 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: to each other's feelings, and that's rare that is rare 217 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: in television. I know in many stations the co ankers 218 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: don't like each other. You know that happens a lot. 219 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: I am so thankful that during the BTK years she 220 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: was by my side. It made a huge difference, huge difference. 221 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: It made a huge difference that he was by my side. 222 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: Larry was very protective of me when he walked me 223 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: out to my car. I knew BTK would never harm 224 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: Larry had to work. They had like a little relationship 225 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: from the seventies. I knew BTK would never harmle Larry Howdeberg. 226 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: So I felt very safe with Larry walking me out 227 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: to the car because I knew BTK would never do 228 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: anything to Larry. 229 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, Yeah, no, I didn't know that. 230 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: And we knew that he basically attacked mostly women, with 231 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: exception of the Atero family. We didn't know that. I 232 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: just knew that this was an odd time in my 233 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: journalism history, and the Susan and I were in it together, 234 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: and Jeff and several of the other reporters who worked 235 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: very hard on this, and we had to cover each 236 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: other's butts in this thing because we didn't know where 237 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: it was going. We didn't know how it was going 238 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: to end. And you know, when we do interviews like this, 239 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: we all have the benefit of hindsight. But when you're 240 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: living with the BTK story before he's caught, you have 241 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: no idea who this guy is, You have no idea 242 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: where the story's going, you have no idea of the outcome. 243 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: So it's a really different time. And to be able 244 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: to talk about it in hindsight is one thing, but 245 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: when you're living it, as I say, Sudan and I 246 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: never had these conversations. We were just scrambling to get 247 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: the story on the air in hopes to serve the 248 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: viewer every night. 249 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: This is the first time I've realized that. I think 250 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: it says that we had to put all of our 251 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: feelings aside, as Larry said, all of our fears, all 252 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: of our sadness, all of our frustration, all of our anger, 253 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: like everybody had, we had to put all that aside 254 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: and do our job. It was really good with Larry 255 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: and I because Larry chased the whole BTK angle, the 256 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: whole the criminal, and I chased the victim angle, and 257 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: so we were all working on different things. Larry was 258 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: working on reaction from BTK, and I was working on 259 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: let's find these victims' families and tell the real story 260 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: of these victims that are still out there. And so yeah, 261 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: we each had our own little thing that we were 262 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: working on and that made it successful. 263 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: And that was Susan's specialty working with those family members, 264 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: and she did an absolute great job with it and 265 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: really got some incredible insight from the family members. And 266 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember the family because you know, 267 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: what happened to us is nothing. What happened to the 268 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: families is everything. Those families' lives have been changed forever 269 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: in so many difficult and unusual ways that we'll never 270 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: know about. But it's the families who bear the ultimate 271 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,119 Speaker 1: suffering of what bt did. And you know, we concentrate 272 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 1: on BTK because A, he's still alive, b he's still 273 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: being BTK. But the families are basically sitting all across 274 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: the city, all across the state, and in silence because 275 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: they don't want to think about it. They don't want 276 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: to relive the moments, and I'm guessing that they would 277 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: not want to do this to have their comments on 278 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: the air, so they live in silence. And I think 279 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: that burden for me would really be overwhelming. 280 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: The relationship between Larry and I during that whole year, 281 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: it was something very special. We became very very good 282 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 2: friends during that year and very protective of each other. 283 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 3: Can we get into the capture of Dennis Raider. 284 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: I'll never forget it. 285 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: Oh, go ahead, be my guess. 286 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 2: Of course, all the TV stations were live covering every 287 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: single millisecond of his way to prison. He leaves downtown Wichita. 288 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 2: We have a helicopter in the sky following the caravan 289 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 2: to Eldorado Prison, which is about thirty miles away. The 290 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: helicopters in the sky. I remember following the car. I 291 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: remember watching the car. I remember the car pulling up 292 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 2: to the Eldorado Prison doors. I remember them getting Dennis 293 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: Raider out in his jumpsuit, foot ankle cuffs and handcuffs, 294 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: and then walking him into that prison. I remember the 295 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: live shot of the prison door shutting. I have never 296 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: been so relieved, so for lack of a better word, 297 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 2: emotionally spent. I remember I started to cry, thinking to myself, 298 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: the nightmare is over for Wichita. The nightmare is finally over, 299 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 2: not only for us, for Larry and I and other 300 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 2: members of the media, because it was a nightmare for 301 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: us as well, but for all of Wichita, the nightmare 302 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: was over. I started crying, and one other thing that 303 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: struck me from that. Of course, that day we led 304 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: with his incarceration forever and ever. All those stories aired 305 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: that day, the five, six, and ten o'clock news, and 306 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: all that I remember. The next day and the day 307 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: after and the day after, we didn't mention his name, 308 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: and it was so refreshing not to have his name 309 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 2: mentioned on our newscast. And I'm sure it's what he 310 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: wanted forever and ever and ever. I don't know if 311 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: we mentioned his name for a couple months after that, 312 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 2: and that's what was so refreshing. I don't know how 313 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: Larry felt, but when the prison doors closed, I could 314 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 2: physically feel this huge weight lifted from my shoulders. Mind you, 315 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: we've covered a zillion trials, a zillion homicide cases, a 316 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 2: zillion never one like this where you'd feel this weight 317 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 2: lifted off of you when the prison doors closed. I mean, 318 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: anchor people don't feel that. Journalists don't care. We felt 319 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: this huge weight lifted off our shoulders and a huge 320 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: sense of relief. 321 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I'm listening to you give that 322 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: moment by moment feeling, and that's incredible because my memory 323 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: the day he was caught is just trying to get 324 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: stuff on the air. And all I remember is all 325 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: I could think about was Okay, we've got to get 326 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: this bite in, We've got to get this story in, 327 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. I don't remember my 328 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: feelings that day. I don't, I don't not at all. 329 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: I remember the week before he was caught, the week 330 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: before they finally took him to prison, that I went 331 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: over to the El Dorado prison and did a story 332 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: on the cell. I went inside his cell where he 333 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: would be kept, and I remember, you know, when that 334 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: door slams on that cell, it is terrifying for me 335 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: because I can't be in an enclosed place. It would 336 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: drive me crazy. And when the door slams on that cell, 337 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: that scared me more than anything, because I couldn't imagine 338 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: spending the rest of my life in this very small area. 339 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: But on the day, I remember all of the coverage 340 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: of it, but I have no recollection of how I felt. 341 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: I just nothing there. 342 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: Not only did I feel that way the day he 343 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 2: went to prison, but the day he was arrested, I 344 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: was at the mall because it was in the morning 345 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: before we went to work at two o'clock and the 346 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: boss called and said, you got to get into work 347 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: right away. I said, why, We're almost positive BTK was caught. 348 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: I've never done this on a story. I mean stories 349 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: or stories. You know, we're immune to this kind of thing. 350 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: I was standing in the middle of the mall. The 351 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: mall started going round and round and round, and I thought, 352 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm going to faint. I'm going to faint. 353 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: And I started crying and I sat down and put 354 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: my head between my legs. That was over a news story. 355 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: We've never done that before, but it involved us so 356 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 2: much that we became part of the fear, part of 357 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 2: the story, part of the extreme relief when he was 358 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 2: finally caught. 359 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: The moment for me was sitting in the courtroom when 360 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: the judge asked him to go through his murders, and 361 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: it was as if it was a three ring circus. 362 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: He was in the center ring, the spotlight was on him, 363 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: and he was the star, and he went through each 364 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: murder in a way that you would talk about getting 365 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: bread at the bakery or picking up your laundry, devoid 366 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: of any emotion, just very factual. And I thought, how 367 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: can a man stand up there and it was televised 368 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: in front of everyone and go through those murders. And 369 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: he was proud of it. He was I don't want 370 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: to use the word happy about it. You could tell 371 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: that this was his moment in the sun. This was 372 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: his time in which everybody could see his work. And 373 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: I remember thinking, what kind of person could do that, 374 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: what kind of person could tell the most evil things 375 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: that humanity can do and be proud of it. He 376 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: was proud of it. He did it. It was his 377 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: moment in the sun. 378 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: Because you were in the courthouse and Jeff and I 379 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: were feeling on the anchor set sick to our stomach, 380 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: you had to have been even more sick to your 381 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: stomach sitting there in the courtroom watching him. 382 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: It felt like it was not real that this is 383 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: a movie and this is the guy they hired to 384 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: be BTK because so far, so devoid of reality, because 385 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: human beings are not supposed to act like that. Human 386 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: beings are not supposed to crave killing, human beings are 387 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: not supposed to be proud of the fact that they 388 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: have snuffed ten lives, and for him to stand up 389 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: there in front of everyone and do that, it was 390 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: just kind of like a movie script, almost didn't seem real. 391 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: And then of course you brought back down to earth 392 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: and it is reel. 393 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: I also remember another feeling, and I don't know if 394 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: it's relevant or not, but I'd like to ask Larry 395 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: whether he felt the same way. I don't think you did, 396 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 2: because I don't think Jeff did either. But I kept 397 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: wanting to tell the judge, quit asking him questions, this 398 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: is exactly what he wants. Quit asking him details of 399 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 2: every single murder he's on stage. He's delighting in this. 400 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: And I kept wanting to say to the judge, just 401 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: let him plead guilty and go. But he had the 402 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: opportunity because the judge kept asking him question and then 403 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 2: there was this murder, and then there was this murder. 404 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: What about this murder? He stood up like he was 405 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: accepting an Academy award, answering the judge's questions about ten 406 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: different murders, and I kept wanting to tell the judge, 407 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: quit asking him, this is what he wants. He's delighting 408 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 2: in this. And he had already pled guilty. 409 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 3: Why do we need. 410 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: To hear this? 411 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: See this is a point when Susan and I probably disagree. 412 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: I was very happy that the judge went through and 413 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: had him describe each murder because I felt that there 414 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: are probably still people out there who would say, oh, 415 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: the media is pouring down negative things about this guy. 416 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: You know what could be so terrible about Dennis Raider? 417 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: But by taking him through murder by murder, and it 418 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: just gets grosser and grosser and more terrible as he 419 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: goes on, then you see what BTK was. Then you 420 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: see the man behind the three letters, and he becomes real, 421 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: and he becomes evil, and he would lose support, which 422 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: is what I was hoping would happen. But still today 423 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: I know that there are people who write, women who 424 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: write him in jail. I don't get that, never have 425 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: understood that. But I was just happy that judge went 426 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: through all of those things so there was no mistake 427 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: about what kind of human being this is and why 428 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: he deserved those the death penalty, which he did not 429 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: get because of Kansas laws. But I thought it was 430 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: a great moment. I just felt it was surreal. 431 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 3: Larry, can you tell us why you still communicate with Dennis. 432 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: The reason I will occasionally write to BTK. We still 433 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: to this day do not know what caused BTK to 434 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: become a murderer. We just have no clue. And there 435 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: are a million teachers out there with kids in their classroom, 436 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: and they know something is wrong with a child, but 437 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: they don't know what to do, They don't know how 438 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: to do it. So the question becomes, how do we 439 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: identify these children who are going to grow up to 440 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: become a BTK. The first place that we would see 441 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: that would be in the classroom, and so we need 442 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: to find out what teachers can use to identify these kids. 443 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: And we still don't know. Dennis Raider told me that 444 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: he knew by the time he was in late grade 445 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: school and certainly by early junior high who he was 446 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: and what he was. That to me is terrifying because 447 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that there are thousands of other little btks 448 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: out there being formulated right now. How do we find them, 449 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: how do we detect them, and then how do we 450 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: stop them? We still don't have those answers. And my 451 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: hope is that all of the forensic psychologists who the 452 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: FBI have employed and who others have employed. Can all 453 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: get together instead of writing their own books, you know, 454 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: from coast to coast, can all get together and say, Okay, 455 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: here's what caused this to happen. Here's what teachers in 456 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: the future and others and parents can look to to 457 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: see that their child is going to grow up and 458 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: be one horrible human being. But until we have those answers, 459 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: the BTK story will never be dead. Even if he 460 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: dies tomorrow, this story isn't done because we don't know 461 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: what caused him to become the murdering monster that he was. 462 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: We still don't know, and that's why I stay involved 463 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: in it because I want to know, and I want 464 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: to know for future generations. 465 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree with Larry. I don't think 466 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: his death will do any good for closure for the families. 467 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: It won't do any good for closure for other people 468 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 2: who were affected by BTK. His death will mean almost 469 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 2: nothing to them because they don't want to have any 470 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: contact or anything to do with him. He's never really 471 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 2: shown any remorse or sorrow or any has come anywhere 472 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: near I made a mistake. He's admitted to Factor X, 473 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: and he said Factor X made me do it. But 474 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: he's never said I'm sorry, I let Factor X take over. 475 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: I'm sorry I did this, I'm sorry I did that. 476 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm a crazy person in my world. I 477 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: think he knows he's a crazy person. I think he knows. 478 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: He's never apologized for it. He's never apologized for the 479 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: lives he's changed. And so for that reason, I don't 480 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: think his death will do any good. 481 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: In the letter that I just wrote to him, I 482 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: asked him how he felt today about what he did 483 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: as compared to two thousand and five, and the last 484 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: time we talked, he didn't refer to that. He didn't 485 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: answer that question. In this I said, recent stories in 486 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: the news indicate that some believe that you may be 487 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: responsible for two additional murders just asking questions like that. 488 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: And the reason I write to him is that I hope, 489 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: in a moment of sanity, he would write back to 490 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: me and say, oh, yeah, I did kill that person, 491 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, back ten or fifteen years ago. But he 492 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: hasn't done it yet. As a newsperson, you keep asking 493 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: the question. And what we found is when you interview people, 494 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: you ask the question many different ways and you get 495 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: many different responses and you hope that the response would 496 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: come out all right, guys, you know, yeah, okay, I 497 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: did those others. He hasn't done that yet. What he 498 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: wrote back to me this time, there's no news value 499 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: in it. He said, I just want you to know 500 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: I forgive you. I forget how he worded it. I'm 501 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what he's forgiving me for. He says, 502 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: it's been a few minutes since we last corresponded, as 503 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: I recall I recall you and others from KTV, How 504 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: can I forget you you? And then he says something 505 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: the media and I'm a man with extra which I 506 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: couldn't read. But all is forgiven. So I'm not sure 507 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: what he's forgiving me for. I did understand back in 508 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,719 Speaker 1: two thousand and five he was unhappy with me because 509 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: in one story I referred to him as a monster 510 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: and he took offense at that. So I'm always anxious 511 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: to get a letter because you know, it may be 512 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: a key to a solution to a piece of information 513 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: that we don't have. And he said he in there 514 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: he was getting away from letter writing. I understand why 515 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: he's getting away from letter writing because it's very hard 516 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: to read his handwriting. Now they apparently have tablets, he 517 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: calls them. I'm assuming maybe it's a chromebook or maybe 518 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: an iPad. I don't know what he has. So now 519 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: he can text people, and he said he was also 520 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: receiving texts. Having Denis Raider being able to text is 521 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: a little bit terrifying. If you're sitting at the dinner 522 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: table with your family and you get a text and 523 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: it's Dennis Raider, B how do you feel about that? 524 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: Doesn't matter. He's in prison. He gets things like this. 525 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: Dennis Raider has access to a tablet, to a television, 526 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: to all these things, and it's not fair. I have 527 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 2: the feeling he wants publicity. 528 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: Now, Well, what I understand is everybody in the prison 529 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: has access to this and they only get it if 530 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: they're good. Now, if they violate prison rules or regulations, 531 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: then television has taken away, the tablets are taken away. 532 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: Why would he violate any rules. He wants his tablet, 533 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 2: he wants his television. 534 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: He has in the past. Yeah, he's bad. 535 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 3: He has. 536 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: I don't know what he's done, but he's been bad 537 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: in the past and they have taken things away from him. 538 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 3: Susan in this most recent letter, it says that you 539 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: were never a project? How does that make you feel? 540 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: Wish I would have known that twenty years ago. Wish 541 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: I would have known it twenty years ago. It would 542 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 2: have saved me a lot of stress, a lot of fear, 543 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 2: a lot of angst. But hearing that I wasn't a 544 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: project now, First of all, how do you believe a 545 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: murders who knows when he's lying and when he's not lying. 546 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: But hearing it now it makes no difference whatsoever. It's 547 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: almost like, how dare him even say my name nothing? 548 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Now? 549 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: You're nothing now? You are nothing then, and you're even 550 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 2: less than nothing now. This is the first time I've 551 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 2: realized that we have never had these conversations about BTK, 552 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 2: and that I've never really cried in front of Larry 553 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: about BTK. 554 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: It's interesting when I'm sitting across from Susan now, I 555 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: am fascinated with her comments because it's the first time 556 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: I've heard many of these things, and so we're sort 557 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: of reliving it again.