1
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.

3
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 2: Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay.

4
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 3: And then roudo with the Bloomberg Business app.

5
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 2: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

6
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 2: us live on YouTube.

7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 4: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington as we turn to the

8
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 4: other major story unfolding here, and of course, that's what

9
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 4: happened over the weekend in the Middle East, as Iran

10
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 4: unleashes an attack of hundreds of missiles and rockets directly

11
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 4: against Israel. Not miraculously, and through remarkable technology and coordination, Israel,

12
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 4: working with the US, the UK, France and Jordan, managed

13
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 4: to knock down ninety nine percent of them. The headline

14
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 4: on the terminal Iran's attack on Israel sparks race to

15
00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 4: avert a full blown war as the world now waits

16
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 4: to see what Israel will do. We spoke earlier with

17
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 4: John Kirby, spokesman for the National Security Apparatus at the

18
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 4: White House earlier today.

19
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 5: He was on Bloomberg Surveillance here.

20
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 6: He is the President was very direct that this was

21
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,399
Speaker 6: a huge success, that Israel can be proud that it

22
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 6: doesn't stand alone and that it has superior military capability.

23
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 6: Iran utterly failed and what they were trying to achieve,

24
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 6: and that that success alone sends a strong message to

25
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,119
Speaker 6: Iran and to the region about Israel's place there.

26
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 4: Iran utterly failed, he says, a resounding success. So if

27
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 4: the attacker doesn't manage to lay a glove on you,

28
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 4: do you still punch back. That's where we start our

29
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 4: conversation with Alex Fatanka. He's the Middle East Institute's director

30
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 4: of the Iran program, and Alex, it's great to have

31
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 4: you with us on this day. Your voice is important

32
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 4: to us as we try to figure out the next move.

33
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 4: Does the White House have the right posture when it

34
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 4: comes to dealing with Israel? Does Joe Biden have any

35
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 4: leverage in helping to determine this outcome?

36
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 7: Fir's great to be with you. Look in terms of

37
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 7: the messaging from the White House, I think it's very

38
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 7: clear the US disadministration is not interested in that regional

39
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 7: conflict broadening or dragon the United States into it. We

40
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 7: all can appreciate why that is, and that's the administration's position.

41
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 7: I know there will be some criticism whether the bidendministration

42
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,840
Speaker 7: stood behind Israel the way it should or not. And

43
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 7: I think the challenge for the administration is to convince

44
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 7: the Israeli government, and that has been a challenge for

45
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,240
Speaker 7: successive American administrations in the last few years, to convince

46
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 7: Israel that they're better off hand in hand with the

47
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 7: United States than good at Iran alone. And I think

48
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 7: that makes a lot of sense to me. You just

49
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 7: heard that US certainly thinks this was a strategic win

50
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 7: for Israel and a strategic defeat for Iran. And you

51
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 7: could make that case strongly. And if that's the case,

52
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 7: then what's the rush? Why not wait before you retaliate

53
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 7: against this Iranian strike on Israel?

54
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 5: Well, there you are.

55
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 4: Just imagine a world though, in which some of those

56
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 4: rockets and missiles got through. It would have meant likely

57
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 4: the deaths of hundreds of Israelis. So I understand the

58
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 4: idea that a response of some sort is called for here,

59
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,920
Speaker 4: if only as a deterrent to keep Iran from doing

60
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,360
Speaker 4: it again. Is it possible, alex for Israel to respond

61
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 4: without losing the alliance that it has created.

62
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 7: Look, the quick answer to that, the latter part of

63
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 7: what you just said is that Iran basically was alone here.

64
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 7: I mean, if you even look at the Arab countries,

65
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 7: there was not much support, if any. I mean it

66
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 7: might have been I'm sure there were some support on

67
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 7: a street level in the Arab world. But Iran, this

68
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 7: non Arab country that has try to use Palestine to

69
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 7: make itself into the leader of the Islamic world, essentially failed.

70
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 7: And in some cases, as with the Jordanians, they were

71
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 7: actively involved in stopping this Iranian attack on Israel, and

72
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 7: others probably were involved. We just from the Wall Street

73
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 7: Journal that UA in Saudi Arabia also played a role.

74
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 7: So I think so much of what happens now going

75
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 7: forward is whether Israel can turn around and use what

76
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 7: happened over the weekend into strategic leverage against Iran, basically

77
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,239
Speaker 7: to say, look, Israel is here to stay. Israel should, however,

78
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 7: saying that, find ways to coexist with Arab countries that

79
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 7: do want to accept it, most notably Saudi Arabia. And

80
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 7: again that takes us to the issue of the Palestinians.

81
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,920
Speaker 7: If Israel tomorrow could somehow solve and I know I'm

82
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 7: saying something that's much easier said than done. But if

83
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 7: just say, Israel could somehow find a path to it

84
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,919
Speaker 7: to a solution to the Palestinian problem, then Iran's access

85
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 7: of resistance, it's proxy network. None of that makes no

86
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 7: sense going forward. By the way, one thing we have

87
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 7: to remember, the Iranian population is the most upset about

88
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 7: what the regime in Tehran is doing in terms of

89
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 7: its regional agenda. And there is no support of what

90
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 7: I tell a comedy and the Revolutionary Guards are doing

91
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 7: against the State of Israel.

92
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 4: Consistent with what we've frequently seen from the Iranian people.

93
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 4: So then is the calculation correct, Alex that Iran does

94
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,279
Speaker 4: not want a wider war, that it is not interested

95
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 4: in a conflict that involves the US.

96
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,280
Speaker 7: You know, this is the basic bottom line for the

97
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,919
Speaker 7: Iranian regime. They don't feel if they get into a

98
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 7: conflict with Israel, then that's the end of it. They

99
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 7: feel that a conflict with Israel means a conflict when

100
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 7: the United States, and in many ways they're right in

101
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 7: thinking that that is their position, and they don't dare

102
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 7: you know, you can put another thousand sanctions on the

103
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 7: Islamic Republic. They wouldn't blink. But you start seriously talking

104
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 7: about the use of the United States military against Iran.

105
00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 7: That's when they're going to really seriously back away the

106
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 7: track record of Islam and Grohog. But here's the big

107
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 7: test for Israel going forward. I talk about strategic leverage.

108
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,599
Speaker 7: They need to make the argument that yes, they have

109
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,359
Speaker 7: problems in terms of how what's going on in Gaza,

110
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 7: but end of the day, if you believe in the

111
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 7: Middle East, where the focus will be on economic development,

112
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 7: economic integration, then nation states need to come around the

113
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 7: table and have a honest conversation about the future and

114
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,719
Speaker 7: Iran's access of resistance, the use of proxies, non state actors,

115
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 7: that is the opposite of economic development, economic integration and

116
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 7: prosperity for the region, and that Israel needs to bring

117
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 7: as many Arab countries, others in the region and international

118
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 7: community to that argument, convince them, and I think if

119
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 7: you do that, then the Iranian regime and again reminding ourselves,

120
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,720
Speaker 7: they don't even have their own people behind them, then

121
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 7: they will have a very tough position to argue for.

122
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 4: We're spending time with Alex Vatanka, director of the Iran

123
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 4: Program at the Middle East Institute. I'd love to know

124
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 4: alex to the extent this attack was so carefully choreographed

125
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 4: and telegraphed. Iran gave Israel a week's notice on this happening,

126
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 4: and then they had something like five hours to prepare

127
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 4: after the drones were launched on the way to Israel.

128
00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 4: And of course they knew the United States our Sentcom

129
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 4: commander was in Israel working with the Israelis to prepare

130
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 4: for this. Did Iran know that the defense would be

131
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 4: so capable that it was willing to attack Israel directly?

132
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 3: Right?

133
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 7: So I mean, just in terms of context, I'm sure

134
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 7: you've covered this already plenty of times, but this Iranian retaliation,

135
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 7: in terms of how to justified it was they said

136
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 7: Israel hit them on the first of April their Damascus

137
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 7: consulate and they had to retaliate. They had to recreate

138
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 7: the deterrence that will had, you know, to pay a price.

139
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,120
Speaker 7: But I will I will say, I will say that

140
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 7: the way they went about it, as you just pointed

141
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 7: out rightly, you know, to sort of take away the

142
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 7: element of surprise, to give the other side plenty of

143
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 7: time to prepare, you have to question what they were thinking.

144
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 7: And this is what I think happened. They wanted to

145
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 7: strike some military sites in Israel. I really don't think

146
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 7: they intended to kill civilians, because they knew that would

147
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,040
Speaker 7: have been too much for anybody to bear and they

148
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,280
Speaker 7: would have entered the phase of no return. But they

149
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 7: didn't want to sort of strike the Israelis in terms

150
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,559
Speaker 7: of their military capacity, and they hit that air force

151
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,840
Speaker 7: base in the galv apparently with some minor damage done

152
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 7: to it. But what I think surprised them is how

153
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,199
Speaker 7: incapable they were. When ninety nine percent of your projectiles

154
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 7: are intercepted, you're not in a good place. So I

155
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,079
Speaker 7: think they were surprised that they were so unable to

156
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 7: sort of strike some of those sites they wanted to hit.

157
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,319
Speaker 7: But essentially, I don't think they ever meant to go

158
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 7: out and bring about mask as in Israel, because they

159
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 7: said the consequence that we've been that great.

160
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 5: Well that says a lot.

161
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 4: And I don't know to the extent that the US

162
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 4: believed that it could block that much hardware, but we

163
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,480
Speaker 4: certainly learned something over the weekend. Alex, I only have

164
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,079
Speaker 4: a minute left. What's your gut do you believe israel response?

165
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 7: I think the Israelis are wiser than that. I think

166
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 7: they recognize what Iran did here. He's really sort of

167
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 7: put itself on the state as this spoiler of this

168
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,319
Speaker 7: mother of all spoilers, a country that, even if wants

169
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,240
Speaker 7: to fight for the Palestinian cause, there are much better

170
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 7: ways to go about it. That this is a revolutionary,

171
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,800
Speaker 7: militant state that has lost its own people. And really,

172
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 7: if you recognize that as a starting point, I think

173
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 7: perhaps going forward policies towards Iran, this regime, I should say,

174
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,080
Speaker 7: could be better, could change and hopefully get better results.

175
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 4: Alex, I'm really glad that you could talk to us today.

176
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 4: I appreciate your time and your insights as we have

177
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,719
Speaker 4: a chance to tap the experience of Alex Vatanka. He's

178
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,199
Speaker 4: director of the Iran program at the Middle East Institute.

179
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 4: We'll have voices of experience throughout the program today as

180
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,200
Speaker 4: we try to unpack what happened last weekend and get

181
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 4: a sense of where we're going forward. With an eye

182
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 4: on a courthouse in New York, the Trump trial, the

183
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 4: hush money case getting underway today as well. I'm Joe,

184
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 4: Matthew and Washington glad you came along on this Monday

185
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,520
Speaker 4: Ballance of Power only on Bloomberg.

186
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.

187
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 2: Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and

188
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,199
Speaker 2: then roun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can

189
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,440
Speaker 2: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

190
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 2: York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

191
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 4: Welcome to the Monday edition, the Patriots Day edition of

192
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 4: Balance of Power here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. And

193
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 4: Happy Marathon Monday if you're in the Boston area. This

194
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,920
Speaker 4: is an important start of the season for so many people,

195
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 4: and we're trying to acknowledge the optimism here amid very

196
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,600
Speaker 4: complicated times on this fifteenth of April. Happy tax Day

197
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,680
Speaker 4: as well. A lot to unpack from over the weekend,

198
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 4: and we're going to do that. Following Iran's attack on

199
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 4: Israel and now of course a global debate over what

200
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 4: should happen next, We're going to spend some time ahead

201
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,239
Speaker 4: this hour, as I mentioned, with Congressman Zach Nunn, Republican,

202
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 4: joining us live today as part of our conversation here

203
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 4: on Balance of Power with a sense of what might

204
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,320
Speaker 4: happen in terms of the funding debate. Some very important

205
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,959
Speaker 4: decisions need to be made later today, what's already underway

206
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 4: is the historic trial in New York, the first criminal

207
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 4: trial for a former president, and of course Bloomberg's Kaylee

208
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 4: lines is therefore us. She's been outside the courthouse for

209
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 4: the balance of the day. Donald Trump has already been

210
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,959
Speaker 4: through the building. Kaylee, what's going on inside it? I'm

211
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 4: curious to know what's happening outside. Is this a carnival

212
00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 4: in Manhattan or what?

213
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, Joe, it's been buzzing all morning. There are, as

214
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 8: of course, a very large media presence here. There are

215
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 8: also plenty of protesters, both in support of and against

216
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 8: Donald Trump, who have shown out today and right now

217
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 8: there actually isn't anything happening in the room on the

218
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,600
Speaker 8: fifteenth floor where all of this is happening. There is

219
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 8: a lunch break until one thirty pm when they return.

220
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,280
Speaker 8: Though we could see a ruling potentially on the question

221
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 8: of whether or not Trump should be held in contempt

222
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 8: of court. The prosecution has asked for him to be

223
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,440
Speaker 8: held in content because of true social posts he has

224
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 8: made related to Michael Cohen, who very likely could be

225
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 8: a test witness in this case, and there is a

226
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 8: gag order in place from the judge that bars Trump

227
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 8: from talking about potential witnesses, as well as the judge

228
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 8: and his family and others tied to this case as well.

229
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 8: So we'll wait for a decision on that. We already

230
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 8: have seen a decision on several motions before the jury

231
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 8: selection process can begin. That work has not yet begun, Joe.

232
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 8: And still they are going to need to sort through

233
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,960
Speaker 8: hundreds of potential jurors and find twelve jurors and six

234
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 8: alternates who meet the criteria of being able to be

235
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 8: impartial and unbiased in assessing this case, in which, of

236
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,200
Speaker 8: course Trump is charged with thirty four felony counts of

237
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 8: falsifying business records.

238
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 5: Pretty remarkable.

239
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 4: And the president, apparently the former president Kaylee will be

240
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 4: of course in court four days a week, has got

241
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,520
Speaker 4: to be. Therefore, we'll be sleeping at Trump Tower. Is

242
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 4: Manhattan going to be compromised by street closures by Secret Service?

243
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,599
Speaker 5: How are they going to manage all of this?

244
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,959
Speaker 8: Yeah, Joe, it's definitely a logistical nightmare. Frankly, if you're

245
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 8: a security personnel who of course have to work in

246
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,440
Speaker 8: conjunction with the Secret Service, and there's a lot of

247
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 8: gateways that have been closed off, a lot of police

248
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,920
Speaker 8: presidence here on the scene in Lower Manhattan, and that

249
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,840
Speaker 8: is going to have to continue for the duration of

250
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 8: this trial, which could be about six to eight weeks.

251
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 8: You're right to point out that Trump is required to

252
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 8: be here in person as a criminal defendant. He will

253
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 8: have to be here every day, but Wednesday's weekdays i'm

254
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 8: speaking of. There will be a few exceptions though in

255
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 8: the coming weeks, the jury will be excused for half

256
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 8: days or at least the proceedings will end after a

257
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 8: half day two week for passover. There also will be

258
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 8: a break entirely days off on April twenty ninth and thirtieth,

259
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 8: and frankly, that could just prolong the process of jury selection. This,

260
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 8: frankly is something that could take weeks. And then after

261
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 8: that is when you actually get to the arguments and

262
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 8: the testimony and the rest of the trial. And of

263
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 8: course we'll see at the end of it, Joe, if

264
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 8: Donald Trump ends up a convicted felon.

265
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 4: If you're with a some on Bloomberg TV, you're seeing

266
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 4: images from Donald Trump earlier today at the courthouse, Kaylee.

267
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 4: They will give him venue to speak to reporters outdoors

268
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 4: or in the lobby. How's that going to work?

269
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, he has the option to speak to reporters in

270
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 8: the hallway, should he so choose. He did do so

271
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 8: heading in to the proceedings earlier this morning, arguing that

272
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 8: this is a political persecution, saying that this is an

273
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,160
Speaker 8: assault against America, that these charges have never should never

274
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 8: have been brought in the first place, many arguments we

275
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 8: have heard him make before, and kind of repeating a

276
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 8: pattern that we have consistently seen, which is that Trump

277
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 8: uses these court appearances as a way to court free media,

278
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 8: to have kind of de facto campaign events, speaking not

279
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 8: just to his base of supporters, but anyone who could

280
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 8: potentially vote for him in November. And we do know

281
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 8: that voter opinion of him may very well change depending

282
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 8: on the outcome of this case. Is voters and swing states,

283
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 8: according to Bloomberg's pulling with Morning Consult, abruptly half of

284
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 8: them had said they would not vote for Trump if

285
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 8: he were to be convicted of a crime. So certainly

286
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 8: a lot does at stake here for the former president,

287
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 8: not just politically, but also the fact that he could

288
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 8: be facing prison time at the end of this show.

289
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,680
Speaker 4: Remarkable. Kaylee lines, it's great to have you in New York.

290
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,280
Speaker 4: Of course, typically my partner here on Balance of Power

291
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 4: in Washington. We're straddling two cities today and appreciate the

292
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 4: coverage from Kailey this Monday, after, of course, the attack

293
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 4: against Israel by Iran, a remarkable weekend that took place,

294
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 4: of course, the attacks overseas, but was very busy here

295
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 4: in Washington, with the President of the United States returning

296
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 4: early from Rehoboth to get in the situation room with

297
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 4: his advisors and try to manage the situation. And we've

298
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 4: been hearing about what the White House is framing as

299
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 4: a remarkable success, the fact that some ninety nine percent

300
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 4: of the hardware thrown by Iran at Israel was blocked

301
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 4: by defensive systems and in some cases, in many cases,

302
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 4: in fact, American fighter pilots flying F fifteen's shooting down

303
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 4: these rockets and missiles.

304
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 5: Air to air.

305
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 4: We heard earlier today from John Kirby, spokesman for the

306
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 4: National Security Operation at the White House. He spoke with

307
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 4: us on Bloomberg surveillance here.

308
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 6: He is I can't speculate about future operations one way

309
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 6: or another or future decisions that we might have to make.

310
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,200
Speaker 6: The President has been clear we're going to hold Iran

311
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,359
Speaker 6: accountable for their destabilizing activities.

312
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 9: He's also been clear.

313
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,200
Speaker 1: That we don't want a war with Iran.

314
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 6: We're not looking for another war in the Middle East

315
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,479
Speaker 6: or to see the conflict that's currently underway in Gaza

316
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 6: broadened or deepened across the region. Now we'll have to

317
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 6: see how things unfold over the next coming days here,

318
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 6: but we don't want a war with Iran, and everything

319
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 6: the President has been doing since the seventh of October

320
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 6: has been designed to try to bring the tensions down

321
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 6: into make sure that the United States is best posture

322
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 6: to defend our interests there.

323
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 3: In the region.

324
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 4: John Kirby on a noisy North lawn at the White House.

325
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 4: The question is how to hold Iran accountable and what

326
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,439
Speaker 4: Israel should do now, what the White House, what congressional

327
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 4: leaders have the stomach for. That's where we start our

328
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,439
Speaker 4: conversation with Congressman Zach Nunn, the Republican from Iowa, is

329
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 4: joining us now from Capitol Hill.

330
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 5: Congressman, it's great to see you.

331
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 4: You served our country for almost two decades in the

332
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 4: United States Air Force, You've worked as an airborne intelligence

333
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 4: officer and you are still serving in the Air Force Reserve.

334
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,439
Speaker 4: Our audience should know. Do you believe that Israel should

335
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,439
Speaker 4: respond to Iran?

336
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 10: Joe?

337
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 11: Israel is our most important ally in the region. They're

338
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 11: one of the strongest democracies, and they are certainly the

339
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 11: frontline in defending.

340
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 10: Folks right here at home.

341
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:51,679
Speaker 3: Now.

342
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 11: I've flown combat operations in the Middle East for several decades,

343
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 11: and I know exactly the threat that Iran poses, both

344
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 11: in arming most hospital adversaries Hamas has Blah now the

345
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 11: Houthi rebels who are firing on US forces. But the

346
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,360
Speaker 11: reality here is that only the United States and Israel

347
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 11: could build this coalition of European partners and Arab partners

348
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 11: to stop the onslaught of three hundred plus weapons meant

349
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 11: to destroy the lives of innocent civilians in Israel. That

350
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 11: effectively and only deters them, But it shows a level

351
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 11: of strength that Iran will have to.

352
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 10: Compete if they ever want to do this again.

353
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 11: It's a dramatic change in tone from Tehran to come

354
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,199
Speaker 11: after and enter in directly into a war against Israel.

355
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 11: I hope that this is their last strike but I

356
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 11: know the United States standing with Israel is our best

357
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 11: deterrent to prevent a larger regional conflict.

358
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 4: Well, there seems to be this feel this morning, Congressman,

359
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 4: and I'm sure you've heard this, that the fact that

360
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 4: none of these missiles or rockets got through, the fact

361
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 4: that no one was killed in Israel should essentially pre

362
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 4: empt a military response. There are a lot of folks

363
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 4: in Israel who feel differently about this, knowing that if

364
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 4: some of those missiles had gotten through, we'd be having

365
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 4: a very different conversation today. And the fact that Iran

366
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,919
Speaker 4: was willing to actually go there, should it be a

367
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 4: military response with that in mind.

368
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 10: That's a great question.

369
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 11: The point here is we were ninety nine percent successful

370
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 11: this time, and the concern here is going forward, we have.

371
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,480
Speaker 10: Got to stop Iran now moving forward.

372
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 11: It's one of the reasons I've led in Congress and

373
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 11: making sure that we cut off their funding. Eighty billion

374
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 11: dollars under this current administration is going directly to Tehran.

375
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 11: That goes to proxy fighters. Equally important, a number of

376
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 11: the sanctions that the Biden administration rolled back months ago

377
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 11: are now empowering them with more funding. That's directly funding

378
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 11: this fleet of drones that are being sent not just

379
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 11: against Israel, but against other allies in the region. This

380
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 11: cascade of missiles, including cruise missiles, that are targeting folks

381
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 11: everywhere from Tel Aviv to the gol On Heights to

382
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 11: write in Jerusalem itself.

383
00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 10: This is a real threat.

384
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 11: The States has been a military deterrent in the region,

385
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 11: but we also have to be a diplomatic and economic

386
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 11: powerhouse and holding Iran accountable from selling its ghost fleet

387
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 11: of oil all over the world, particularly to China and

388
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 11: other places that are also hostile to us, bring that

389
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 11: money back and then directing it. So I want to

390
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 11: hold a government defined strategy here. Congress needs to do

391
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,959
Speaker 11: its part and make sure that it funds the weapons

392
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 11: systems that protect Israelis. But equally, the administration has to

393
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 11: have a strategic deterrent that's more than just parking destroyers

394
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 11: off the coast of Iran. We have got to stop

395
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 11: the way the Mullahs and the Ayahtola are controlling this environment.

396
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 4: Well, let's get into this, Congressman. You've said it yourself.

397
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 4: The matter of funding is on the front burner in Congress,

398
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 4: and there's an important meeting later on today with Speaker

399
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson, members of your Republican conference in the House

400
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 4: about how you're going to get to this. There's of

401
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 4: course an emergency supplemental package that we've talked up and

402
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 4: down that's past the Senate that could come in that form.

403
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 4: This could be in several different forms. The Speaker could

404
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 4: choose to do all of these one by one, and

405
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 4: I wonder your preference. Should it be a fourteen billion

406
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 4: dollar Israel bill and then come back later to talk

407
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 4: about a sixty eight billion dollar Ukraine bill or is

408
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 4: it all one vote?

409
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 11: Well, first, I'm very proud of my colleagues in the

410
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 11: House moving forward early on this being able to get

411
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 11: funding for Israel that actually took money that would have

412
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 11: otherwise been spent on things like hiring more IRS agents

413
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 11: to be able to deliver it. Unfortunately, the Senate chose

414
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 11: not to take that up. What we know this morning

415
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 11: is that folks went to bed on Saturday night in

416
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 11: Israel and woke up to a barrage of missile attacks.

417
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 11: Iran needs the funding cut from them and Israel needs

418
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 11: US funding. Now we have the ability in Congress to

419
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 11: move that forward. Now there is a conversation about a

420
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 11: compendium of supporting our allies here. I have very much

421
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 11: supported our allies in this region. But let's be clear

422
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 11: about what is the most direct need, and that is

423
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 11: the ability to resupply Israel today for the weapons systems

424
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 11: that kept it safe. That's iron Dome, that's the F sixteen,

425
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 11: that's the aired air missiles, as well as their ability

426
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 11: for things that we don't see behind the scenes, cybersecurity

427
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 11: and defense of the air. Most of these weapons systems

428
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 11: will be produced right here in the United States. This

429
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 11: is a return on investment for both Israel and the

430
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 11: American worker.

431
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 4: Well, you know, and of course the people of Ukraine

432
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 4: would probably beg to differ as they see their situation

433
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 4: as quite urgent, if not more so with actual ammunition

434
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 4: shortages here.

435
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 5: Would you vote for a bill.

436
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 4: That included both you mentioned money is going to our

437
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 4: defense contractors here in the US and the bulk of

438
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 4: that sixty billion for Ukraine would do the same. They're

439
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 4: actually running out of ammunition. Congressmen, are you a yes,

440
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 4: a Ukraine fund?

441
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 10: Yes.

442
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 11: So that's exactly why I spoke to both the Speaker

443
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 11: and the Leader to be able to bring both of

444
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 11: these items forward. It's a top priority that along with

445
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 11: supporting our allies in Taiwan as well as border security,

446
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 11: all four of these issues are things that we have

447
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 11: to address now, and we cannot continue to kick them

448
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 11: down the road. The Senate has been just derelict in

449
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 11: respect on border security, but there's a direct threat in

450
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 11: all four of these areas. It's one of the reasons

451
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 11: I've led the ability to help support our allies in Ukraine,

452
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 11: not by sending more US tax dollars directly to Kiev,

453
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 11: but by seizing the three hundred billion dollars in Russian

454
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 11: assets that are right here in Europe and the United

455
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 11: States help them resupply, provide them those loans that get

456
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 11: ammunition directly to the front in Ukraine, support our allies

457
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 11: in Israel, but also support the Indo Pey com theater,

458
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 11: and stop terrorists coming across the southern border directly supported

459
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 11: by Iranian elements. In the same way that the Middle

460
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 11: East has been under attack from these insurgents. We've got

461
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 11: to be able to defend our own country on the

462
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 11: home front. These four together are not only a good

463
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 11: common sense national security solution, they're what money for national

464
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 11: security is intended for, and let's begin by doing that

465
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 11: conversation today and not waiting any longer.

466
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 4: Well, it sounds a lot like that Senate though that passed. Congressman,

467
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: there's a threat hanging over your speaker's head. Margie Taylor

468
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 4: Green sales.

469
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 10: Yeah.

470
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 11: The one thing I'll say differently is the Center Bill

471
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 11: did nothing for the southern border of the United States,

472
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 11: and I am.

473
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 10: All for HEP.

474
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 4: You'd like to see a different border package. I understand

475
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 4: slightly different language on the border. What if your boss

476
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 4: gets fired on this, Congressman, do you believe Marjorie Taylor

477
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 4: Green would trigger that motion to vacate if Mike Johnson

478
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 4: brings Ukraine to the floor.

479
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 11: So you know, I had this conversation with Speaker Johnson,

480
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 11: and as a veteran of multiple tours in Afghanistan, I

481
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 11: handed him two bullets. One was the shot that was

482
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 11: taken that ended up saving American lives. The other round

483
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 11: was a shot that was not taken that resulted in,

484
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 11: you know, US forces coming under a greater attack. Whenever

485
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 11: we have the opportunity to help our allies to help

486
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 11: defend the country. I told the speaker take the shot.

487
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 11: I believe firmly that Speaker Johnson is going to do

488
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 11: the right thing to protect American citizens, and at the

489
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 11: end of the day, if that means jeopardizing his career

490
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 11: to do the right thing, I stand one hundred percent

491
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 11: behind him.

492
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: How about that, Congressman, You're part of something that our

493
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 4: audience should know about, and that's the Four Country Caucus,

494
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 4: which helps to connect military veterans who are serving in Congress,

495
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 4: like yourself from both sides of the aisle to talk

496
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 4: about issues like these. Is the Four Country Caucus in

497
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: favor of funding Ukraine and Israel.

498
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 11: You know, I went directly to Ukraine on the overnight

499
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 11: train to talk with President Zelenski myself just a few

500
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 11: weeks ago, and we heard directly that this is a

501
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 11: country that's under siege from elements that are supported not

502
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 11: only by Russia but by other axes of evil that

503
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 11: want to do harm.

504
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 10: My guy's back in Iowa.

505
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 11: They recognize this as farmers fertilizer prices in Ukraine go up.

506
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 10: It impacts folks here at home.

507
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 11: So we have a national security strategy that has got

508
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 11: to be focused on terminating the threat. At the same time,

509
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 11: I don't want to see another forever war. We have

510
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 11: got to have vision from this White House on how

511
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 11: it's going to defend this country and our allies. And

512
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 11: I'm looking forward to working with anybody Democrat or Republican

513
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 11: who will help move that national security strategy forward.

514
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 5: Zach Nunn, publican from Iowa.

515
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 4: We thank you, Congressman for joining us, and we'll of

516
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 4: course keep you posted on the funding debate in Washington.

517
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.

518
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.

519
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay.

520
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: And then roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app.

521
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

522
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 2: us live on YouTube.

523
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: Thank you for being with us on Bloomberg TV and radio.

524
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 4: I'm Joe Matthew Indeed in Washington. Kayley Lines is in

525
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 4: New York at the courthouse. As you saw earlier following

526
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 4: day one of Donald Trump's trial. The big question in

527
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 4: Washington following the weekend that was.

528
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 5: Is what now?

529
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 4: And that goes for both how to handle the situation

530
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 4: in the Middle East with regard to a military response

531
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 4: potentially by Israel, one that the White House is trying

532
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: to prevent or at least content, and then there's the

533
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 4: situation on Capitol Hill. What now, mister Speaker Mike Johnson

534
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 4: back from a weekend visit tomor A Lago and a

535
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 4: brief conversation on Sunday Morning television with some very difficult

536
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: decisions to make regarding Israel and Ukraine for that matter,

537
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 4: and we assembled our panel to get going on this now.

538
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 4: Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis are with

539
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 4: us our signature panel. Rick, there's an important meeting right

540
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 4: around five thirty Eastern time today. Speaker Johnson is going

541
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 4: to be meeting with members of his conference, having spoken

542
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 4: with the leaders of the intelligence committees, those that are

543
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 4: related to the subject matter at hand, and he's got

544
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 4: a decision to make. Does he put his career on

545
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 4: the line and bring Ukraine funding to the floor that's

546
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 4: somehow tied to Israel or does he just deal with

547
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 4: the Israel matter this week alone. None of the leadership

548
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 4: have given us a sense of what might get a

549
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 4: vote this week.

550
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 5: What are you hearing?

551
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, I'm hearing that he did make some progress,

552
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 12: evidently in mar A Lago on getting Trump to back

553
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 12: off the anti Ukraine emphasis. But at the end of

554
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 12: the day, You're exactly right. He's got to decide whether

555
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 12: he can put a supplemental package that looks something like

556
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 12: what the President gave them months ago onto the floor,

557
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 12: and Marjorie Taylor Green is not backing off of her

558
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 12: demands that the Speaker withdraw that, not present it, and

559
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 12: if he does, she potentially could begin to start the

560
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 12: process of selecting a new Speaker.

561
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 5: So you're right.

562
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 12: I mean he's got a decision to make, doesn't necessarily

563
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 12: mean he gets out to a speaker. We got a lot

564
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 12: of Democrats who would like to see that Ukraine piece

565
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 12: part of the package of supplemental funding and would be

566
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 12: willing to back the Speaker in his job vote if

567
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 12: that is a net result, but likely they'd want something

568
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 12: for that, And those negotiations, from what I'm hearing, have

569
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 12: not even begunne So it's a very dicey period of

570
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 12: time and the House of Republicans, and at an incredibly

571
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 12: important time to the country and to our allies.

572
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 5: So I think that we still don't know now is remarkable.

573
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: Of course, he could move that Senate Bill Genie, remembering

574
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 4: there's fourteen billion dollars for Israel in that bill. Following

575
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: our conversation just now with Congressman None, I'm thinking maybe

576
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: not if they're still, of course concerned about the border component.

577
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 4: And Mike Johnson told Fox News on Sunday morning that

578
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 4: Donald Trump was supportive of conditioning Ukraine aid as a loan.

579
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 4: It sounds like we're going to get a new bill

580
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 4: or several this week, don't you think.

581
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 13: Yeah. I do think they're going to try to go

582
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 13: with a new bill.

583
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 14: I think all indications from Mike Johnson at this point

584
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 14: is they're going to try to fund Israel without Ukraine,

585
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 14: so he's able to appease those people on his right,

586
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 14: and that, of course itself has its challenges. As we remember,

587
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 14: it was just a few months ago they try to

588
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 14: standalone bill for Israel and that went down.

589
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 13: And let's not.

590
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 14: Forget he's got a two seat majority today Monday, and

591
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 14: I believe as of Friday, Mike Gallagher leaves early the House.

592
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 13: And they are down to one.

593
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 14: So this thin majority that he has now is going

594
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 14: to make this all that much trickier. I do think

595
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 14: Donald trump support public support of him on Friday is

596
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 14: going to help, But of course it still hasn't publicly

597
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 14: deterred Marjorie Taylor Green.

598
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: What's your thought on this motion to vacate now that

599
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 4: we've had a little bit of time for this to

600
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: wash around here, Rick, Is Marjorie Taylor Green really trying

601
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 4: to get the speaker fired or trying to determine the

602
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 4: outcome of the House agenda to the extent that she

603
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: can and raise some money while she's at it. Not

604
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 4: a lot of people take her seriously on the former.

605
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'd say none of the above. I think it's

606
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 12: all performance act on her part. I don't think she's

607
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 12: trying to influence an agenda, and I don't think she

608
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 12: really cares about Speaker Johnson. I think he's just a

609
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 12: means to an end. Just when things were starting to

610
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 12: really create her for Mike Johnson, she pulled out this

611
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 12: device and campaigned on it, spent a lot of time

612
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 12: over the last two weeks getting in the news, none

613
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 12: of which has resulted in any productive outcomes around any

614
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 12: agenda items.

615
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: So you have to just.

616
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 12: Mark it up to her typical performance requirements. She's got

617
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 12: to get the attention, she wants to be looking powerful,

618
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 12: and in this case, she really is a lone wolf

619
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 12: in the house and very disruptive force. Even Donald Trump

620
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 12: wouldn't back her up when Johnson went back down to

621
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 12: mar Lago. And he's one of her biggest supporters. So

622
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 12: in this case, it's a high wire act on her part.

623
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 12: It makes Matt Gatz's initial effort to aust McCarthy look

624
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 12: like child's play. She's really drawn this thing out and

625
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 12: creating a lot of tension.

626
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: Amazing stuff is We spend time with our panel Rick

627
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 4: Davis in Genie Shanzo Donald Trump in New York today

628
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 4: in a courthouse as his name keeps coming up in

629
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: this conversation about funding. And there's a new poll out

630
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: today Siena College, New York Times. It's one that we

631
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 4: follow pretty closely here on balance of power. The headline

632
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 4: is good for Joe Biden Genie Biden shrinks Trump's edge

633
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: in latest Times Siena poll. They're basically tied in this

634
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 4: case forty six percent of forty five percent, one percent

635
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 4: for Donald Trump. But there was something more interesting in

636
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 4: this poll to me. It f on a big increase

637
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: in registered voters nine percent nine points registered voters who

638
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 4: believe that Donald Trump left the country better off that's

639
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: going to be the question that voters consider when they

640
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: walk into a voting booth. And I wonder your thought

641
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: on that, because a lot of people have a hard

642
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 4: time revisualizing the world in the midst of a pandemic

643
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: and a lot of the confusion that surrounded that period

644
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 4: of time where we were four years ago.

645
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 5: What does a Democrat do with a piece of information.

646
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 13: Like that, Yeah, it's fascinating.

647
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 14: I think one of the challenges is that Donald Trump

648
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 14: has been less in the headlines than Joe Biden. Obviously

649
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 14: is the sitting president, but as he begins to consume

650
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 14: all the oxygen in the room, people will be reminded

651
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 14: of the chaos that is Donald Trump, and that may

652
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 14: help in that regard. But I think for me, one

653
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 14: of the fascinating things about this poll was they talked

654
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 14: to this woman, Beth from Connecticut and she said, you know,

655
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 14: she's gonna lean towards Biden because he's the lesser of

656
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 14: two evils. And they talked about the fact that this

657
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 14: is how so many voters feel that they don't like

658
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 14: either one of them, but it's gonna be the lesser

659
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 14: of two evils. And that's why I think this trial

660
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 14: that Donald Trump is just sitting in today or starting

661
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 14: today is so important because people are going to be

662
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 14: reminded as to the fact that this is a man

663
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 14: on trial for facing thirty four counts, each of which

664
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 14: carries a four year potential sentence of he's convicted. And

665
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 14: if we're talking about one hundred thousand voters and a

666
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 14: few swing states deciding this thing, it can impact some

667
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 14: people's views, and that can have a big impact on

668
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 14: a very tight election.

669
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: I'm just fascinated by the rear view mirror in this case. Rick,

670
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 4: you're both polling experts. Donald Trump beats Joe Biden. When

671
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 4: people are asked how they remember their presidencies, forty two

672
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: percent rate Trump's term as mostly good for America, compared

673
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 4: to twenty five percent for Joe Biden. What does the

674
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 4: headline number count for when you have lines like this.

675
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's it's a complexity for Biden. He has to

676
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 12: sell the future and he's in the middle of a morass.

677
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 12: I mean, this is where incumbency doesn't really do you

678
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 12: any favors.

679
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 10: There are a lot of.

680
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 12: Positives about incumbents when you're running for president, but this

681
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 12: is the state of American economy today, still the vast

682
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 12: majority of voters are voting on the economy, they are

683
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 12: hit by inflation. That is something that is going to

684
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 12: perplex this administration, probably through the election.

685
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 5: They've got to get.

686
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 3: Used to it.

687
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 12: And in that regard, it's very easy to say, you know,

688
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 12: it just seemed better before. This is the classic Ronald

689
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 12: Reagan line, where you get better off today than you

690
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 12: were four years ago. And the reality is what Biden,

691
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 12: I think really needs to focus on is making sure

692
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 12: that he's got a vision for the next four years,

693
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 12: right because this is one thing that Donald Trump can't

694
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 12: give is a picture of the future that's anything other

695
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 12: than sort of what Genie was saying, a crisis unfolding

696
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 12: every day from the Oval office. And so if Biden

697
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 12: could come up with a plan that says, here's what

698
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 12: the future the next term of office for Joe, Biden's

699
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 12: going to look like he's got a chance to get

700
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 12: people to quit thinking about how they feel today are

701
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 12: to look forward to tomorrow.

702
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 5: Well, it's really interesting, Genie. You know, people talk about it.

703
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 4: They're paying too much for cookies and stuff at the

704
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: store right now, but four years ago you couldn't walk

705
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 4: into the store half the time because of COVID and

706
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 4: they weren't making cookies.

707
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 5: I don't know.

708
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 4: Is it worth redrawing the world in a pandemic if

709
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: you're the Biden administration.

710
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 14: Yeah, you know, it's very tough to do. So he's

711
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 14: got a big challenge on his hands.

712
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: You know.

713
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 14: I do think he is going to have to address

714
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 14: head on the fact that so many voters are still

715
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 14: feeling this way about inflation. It would be great if

716
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 14: you could bring them back and show them what it

717
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 14: was like when Trump was president and during COVID and

718
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 14: all those things. But you can't talk people up with something.

719
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,959
Speaker 14: So he's going to have to present, as Rick said,

720
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 14: a vision for going forward, what he's achieved and what

721
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 14: he's going to do going forward. But the bottom line

722
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 14: is these are two very unpopular candidates.

723
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: Great conversation with our signature panel. Great to see you

724
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 4: both on this month. Genie Shance no Rick Davis our

725
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 4: signature Panel.

726
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken

727
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and.

728
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 3: Royd Oo with the Bloomberg Business Ad.

729
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

730
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: Flagship New York station.

731
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

732
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 4: I'm Joe Matthew in the Nation's capital, Kayley Lines normally

733
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 4: at my side at this time is in New York

734
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 4: covering the Trump trial Manhattan Criminal Court, where jury selection.

735
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 5: Is grinding.

736
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 4: Just getting it started has been a task after quite

737
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 4: a bit of jostling from both sides. Here with a

738
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 4: couple of wins for the prosecution. The judge refusing to

739
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 4: recuse himself from the case, as Donald Trump had asked,

740
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: Judge Marshawn will continue. He also ruled that Karen McDougall,

741
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 4: I know you're familiar with the Stormy Daniels part of

742
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: this story is the other woman who says she had

743
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 4: an affair with Donald Trump and that the National Inquirer

744
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: was essentially bought off to keep the story from running.

745
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 4: Can in fact testify in this trial, Judge Mrshaun ruling

746
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 4: as well, prosecutors cannot play tapes from the Access Hollywood recordings,

747
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 4: so getting to jury selection has been, as I mentioned,

748
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: a bit of a grind. It will continue and last

749
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 4: the better part of two weeks. Something we wanted to

750
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 4: discuss with the case at large, with Michael Zelden, the

751
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: former federal prosecutor is with US now former special counsel

752
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 4: to Robert Muller while at the DOJ. It's great to

753
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 4: see you back Michael. Here we are a lot of

754
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 4: folks thought this day would not arrive. Ever, in some

755
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 4: cases some thought maybe, if so, it would be after

756
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 4: the election. But this is it. What does this initial

757
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: jostling tell you about the nuances of this trial we're

758
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: about to work.

759
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 9: Well, what the judge is doing here is making sure

760
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 9: before trial, before there's a jury, that there are clear

761
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 9: rules about what evidence can and cannot come in. What

762
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 9: you want to do in this pre trial stage is

763
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 9: make sure nothing is uncertain that would result in a mistrial.

764
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 9: That is, you bring in something that is so prejudicial

765
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 9: that it results in a mistrial. So the judges properly

766
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 9: setting the parameters of what the evidence can be, what

767
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 9: arguments can be made from it, so that everybody has,

768
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 9: if you will, the scorecard by which they're operating. Once

769
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 9: that's all clear, once everyone knows who can testify, what

770
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 9: they can testify to, who can testify, what documents are

771
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 9: not allowed in, then they can begin the process of

772
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 9: picking the jury and Hopefully that will take about a

773
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 9: week or two and then the evidence will start coming in.

774
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: Michael Cohen, I'm assuming, is going to testify at some

775
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 4: point in this trial. This is Donald Trump's former fixer,

776
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 4: is former attorney here, and Trump went on the attack

777
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 4: against him over the weekend. There are questions about that,

778
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 4: whether I should say that violates a gag order.

779
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 5: How do you see it, Michael.

780
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 9: Well, I think it did violate the gag order, But

781
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 9: in some sense we're beyond that point. Trump has said

782
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 9: repeatedly everybody is persecuting him. This is attack against America,

783
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 9: and he's standing up for us. He's proud to be

784
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 9: here in the courtroom. But once the doors of the

785
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 9: courtroom close and the evidence starts coming in, his rants

786
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 9: about Michael Cohen and his lack of credibility, I think

787
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 9: are beside the point. It'll have to be a matter

788
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 9: of whether or not they can convince a jury that

789
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 9: his prior history of untruthfulness is that which merits an acquittal,

790
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 9: or whether, as the prosecution hopes, that Cohen, buttressed by

791
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 9: the testimony of others from Nash Inquirer and within the

792
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 9: White House, and particularly the Trump records themselves, support the

793
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 9: Cohen story that this was a business fraud intended to

794
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 9: suppress the story about Stormy Daniels's affair with the present

795
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 9: with then candidate Trump in order to have it not

796
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 9: impact the outcome of the election. So there's two battles

797
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 9: for narratives here. Cohen is at the center of them,

798
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 9: and we'll see who the jury believes.

799
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 5: You mentioned the jurors. This is going to be a

800
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 5: painful process.

801
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 3: Apparently.

802
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 4: The forty two questions, as we've discussed on the questionnere

803
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 4: here about where they live, their education status, marital status,

804
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 4: who they work for, their hobbies, just not their political motivations.

805
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 4: But there are a lot of subparts to these questions,

806
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 4: and many of these could take some time. Donald Trump's

807
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 4: jury consultants, according to The New York Times, are hoping

808
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: to spot sympathizers, as I read here, focusing on younger

809
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 4: black men and white working class men. What's behind that strategy, Michael,

810
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: and will.

811
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 9: It work well? I think it's rather cynical that they

812
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 9: would think that young African American males would be sympathetic

813
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 9: to Trump on the theory that he is going to

814
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 9: argue he's been railroaded, and they these young African Americans

815
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 9: know about railroading so that they will be sympathetic to him.

816
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 9: I think that's very cynical, and I think it misses

817
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 9: the point of who those prospective jurors are. We know

818
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 9: from the polls that those without a college degree, white,

819
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 9: more rural than urban voters, tend to be his base.

820
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 9: There aren't that many rural voters in Manhattan. So he's

821
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 9: going with the white and probably non college educated perspective

822
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 9: jurors to think that they will side with him politically.

823
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 9: And you know, we'll see each prospective witness, each perspective

824
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 9: durer has all sorts of complications, and the lawyers have

825
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 9: to sort of sort out what they think will be

826
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 9: the best approach to everything and then make determinations of

827
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 9: how to attack each or how to select a jurer.

828
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 4: We should let our listeners and viewers know. Judge Marshawn

829
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: says he will hear oral arguments on Wednesday, the twenty

830
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 4: fourth of April, week from Wednesday over the Trump gag

831
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: order potential violation.

832
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 5: That's a day before the.

833
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 4: Supreme Court Michael hears oral arguments in the presidential immunity

834
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: question that is preventing Jack Smith's January sixth trial from

835
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 4: getting underway here in Washington. That, of course, could have

836
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: far reaching implications even beyond Donald Trump. So what's a

837
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: more important day in Donald Trump's legal journey? Is it

838
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 4: today the beginning of this criminal trial, or is it

839
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: in fact the arguments that will be heard before the

840
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 4: Supreme Court lay this month.

841
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 9: Well, I think, big picture, the decision by the Supreme

842
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 9: Court on the immunity issue has more implications for Trump

843
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 9: because he is arguing immunity precludes the or aspects of

844
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 9: the morologal case from going forward and from the essentially

845
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 9: entire January sixth case. So we're the Supreme Court to

846
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 9: argue to rule in his favor. That would be a

847
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 9: much bigger win than this case. But he's on trial,

848
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 9: he faces years in prison if he is convicted, and

849
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 9: so you know, you've got to pick your poison, and

850
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 9: I think they're both pretty bad for him. So but

851
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 9: I think, Joe to the answer to your question, if

852
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 9: I were given a choice, as Donald Trump, which case

853
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 9: do I want to prevail on, I'll take the January

854
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 9: sixth immunity argument over this.

855
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 5: One fascinating six to eight weeks.

856
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 4: Lastly, my is that what we're going with here, or

857
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 4: does that depend on how protracted this jury selection is.

858
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 9: Well, they say one to two weeks for jury selection

859
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 9: and four to six for the trial itself. Now, the

860
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 9: judges made pre trial ruling sort of narrowing the scope

861
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 9: of the evidence and what can be argued for it,

862
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 9: and so if stuff comes in, you know, sort of

863
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 9: ordinarily without a lot of interruption, I think this trial

864
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 9: could take three or four weeks, and so you could

865
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 9: really get a verdict in about six weeks time, or

866
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 9: at least it be sent to the jury in six

867
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 9: weeks time. And remember that which is important in a

868
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 9: criminal case, which is there must be a unanimous verdict.

869
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 9: And so if you have one holdout or two holdouts

870
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 9: for either side, that could keep the jury deliberations going

871
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 9: on for a very long time. And so I think

872
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 9: Trump's hope here is to find a juror who will

873
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 9: hang this jury, because if they have to retry it,

874
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 9: that might not get done before the election.

875
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 4: Always a fascinating conversation with Michael Zelden. Of course we'll

876
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 4: continue talking with Michael about it. Former federal prosecutor. You'd

877
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 4: great to have you back, Michael Zelden on day one

878
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 4: of Donald Trump's criminal trial in New York.

879
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

880
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 4: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

881
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

882
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 4: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

883
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 4: at Bloomberg dot com.