WEBVTT - Ed Ruscha 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.840 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.680 Adami's Studios. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:12.719 I'm sitting here in La with Dexter and ed Arusha. 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.639 Edvarusche is the artist and Dexter is the dog, and 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.319 I hope we're going to hear from them both in 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:23.759 the next half hour. Did you bring the cactus on it? 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.840 Yeah? Yeahay. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.479 There's a small work of art by my bed that 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.959 I say hello to every morning and say good night 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.800 to every night. I think of the day it arrived 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.839 in the River Cafe from Los Angeles, wrapped in layers 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.560 of bubble wrap. I knew then unwrapping it that this 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.160 was one I would never let out of my sight. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.480 The artist was ed Rusche, and the word in bright red, 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:56.440 says Yum. I've known ed Risha's work since the early seventies. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:00.280 I followed admired his work through his career, and in 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.640 twenty nineteen, in twenty twenty heat shows at the National 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.440 Gallery and Tape Modern and it was then that we 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.440 got to know each other well. Dinners at the River Cafe, 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.800 breakfast at clarriages, and we became friends. First I fell 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.280 in love with the art, and then I fell in 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:22.840 love with the artist. Would you like to read a recipe? 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.960 Shall I read your recipe, but I'd. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.760 Like to hear yours. You'll be the first person to 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.240 read a recipe that is not a river cafe recipe, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.160 And I think that's good. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.960 What is that cactus omelet which I make occasionally? Do 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.640 you have to get Nopolito's little cactus pads that they 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:46.840 slice into little bits? And so? Says utensils omelet pan 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.640 are similar type pan with rounded bottom, mixing bowl, wire, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.160 whisk or fork. Instructions. Break two eggs in bowls slightly 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.680 under mix with whisk or fork. Heat butter in pan 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.360 and ntil it bubbles and begins to turn brown. Add 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.280 the eggs and let them sit in the pan until 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.480 the bottom begins to harden. As soon as this sets, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.040 but while the top is still moist, add salt and pepper, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:20.640 cottage cheese, sprinkle celery on top, followed by the nopoleitos let. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.760 The omelet set for about one minute over a low 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.359 fire roll omelet out of pan and onto plate. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:34.919 Where does this recipe come from? 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.560 I sort of made it up, yeah, And I always 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:44.519 like the taste of they're kind of slimy of cactus, 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.280 you know, nopoletos, but they have a flavor all their own, 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.800 and I've always liked them. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.680 Yeah, because you know, where we live, we don't get 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.240 cactus cacti. So was it when you came out here 0:02:58.360 --> 0:02:59.400 to you at it? 0:02:59.680 --> 0:02:59.880 Yeah? 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:01.000 You go in the desert? 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.800 Uh, well, Los Angeles. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.639 I've talked to artists. I've interviewed Damien and Tracy, but 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.960 I haven't had an artist or painted about We talk 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.120 about food and how food in their life and food 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.480 in their art. But you actually painted with food, use 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.560 egg yolk, and you usedn't you. Is that a certain 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.000 period that you started painting with with actually food. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:32.639 Yeah, maybe I was frustrated with art materials or it 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:38.040 felt like I had reached a apex or a stopping 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.200 off point. And then I thought about why you can 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.400 make marks on paper or on canvas with any number 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.400 of things. Why does it have to be pigments? And 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.640 so then I started using these things like axle, grease 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:59.360 and caviar, and well, it's of course egg, and it's 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:06.160 pretty stable and and it hardens and it's proven to 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.560 be pretty pretty stable over the years. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.480 Also, the paintings that you did with caviar. Still yeah, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:12.800 still still there. 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.400 They've yellowed a little bit. But yeah, that's what do 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.200 we call that entropy or something? 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:21.960 But you don't do anymore. 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.799 No, I haven't done that for a while. Maybe we should, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.000 but don't give me any idea. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:32.000 I think I'm going to give you an idea. When 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.080 I came to a studio, you have an orchard in 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.400 the back, and I was wondering, you know, what what 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.560 does that mean to you to have fruit growing in 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:43.120 behind your studio. 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.560 Well, fortunately I got this building that had a large 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:53.320 backyard I had no real use for, so I sort 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.320 of divided the backyard in half and I thought, well, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.200 I'll just put an orchard in here. And I've always 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:04.960 wanted to gross interest and other things too, figs, pomegranates, cherries. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.480 And then I've got some raised beds there that that 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:14.320 I grow. I was growing the world's hottest pepper the 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.120 boot you're Lochia. It's like an Indian called ghost pepper. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:25.800 It measures out to be the hottest pepper in the world. Well, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.159 I mean, how do you eat it? That's a nobody 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.880 ever has the answer to that. That's too powerful, I guess, 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.159 so and make it so fine, grind it so fine, 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.520 and I think there are people that are still working 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.360 on it to get the get the Blue Ribbon for 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.080 the hottest pepper that so. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:51.320 That it judges that competition. But you cook a lot, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.960 don't you. That recipe for an omelet is a really 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.080 interesting recipe because it's using an ingredient that is so local. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.360 You know, you go into great depth to tell how 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.920 you fry the eggs, you season it, the heat of 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.080 the pan. That's a chef's recipe. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.680 Well it's sort of hit and miss, you know, And 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.080 so that's fine. Since I'm usually cooking for myself, it 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.719 doesn't matter. But only other thing I really cook is chili, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:20.720 and I like to make chili. I make it without onions, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:26.200 without beans, and without tomatoes. That's fun to make, and 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.800 that takes a few hours to do that, but it's 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:29.200 worth it. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.360 When you're painting, how do you eat and paint generally? 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.640 And I don't even eat lunch. I mean I will 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.000 maybe have a banana or a piece of fruit, and 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.240 that's my lunch. I don't eat three meals a day 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.360 like I used to. But I know it's in our 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.400 artistic tradition. It's always been a ceremony with artists to 0:06:53.640 --> 0:07:00.640 stop working at eleven forty five and sit on and 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.040 I don't drink wine. Yeah, so, and then you know, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.719 it's also a tradition to have wine with lunch. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.280 But in New York in the kind of sixties seventies, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.800 wasn't there the whole thing where artists would be in 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.640 their studios all day, very solitary, and then go to 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.880 Max's or to you know, to the culture of kind 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.480 of being alone and then going out every night. And 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.120 were you ever part of that culture or was it lle. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:29.040 Well, yeah, it's the pandemonium of crowds of people in 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.720 a place like Max's, Kansas City or any of those 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.040 kind of places, and it was almost ceremonial. You know, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:42.240 you'd go and have great fun and drink, and uh, 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:44.360 that was part of life. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:45.480 I guess you live in New York. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.760 Did You never did live in New York. No. It 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.320 was always too complicated or too expensive for me to 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.160 live there. And uh, just the idea of trying to 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.080 take a two by four across town was such an 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:04.040 issue that made California impossibly convenient. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.840 Yeah, we saw Frank Gary yesterday and we talked about 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.320 the camaraderie between for him, many more artists and architects. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.440 He just loved the feeling of the la kind of 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.160 artists being together here. Was that part of your world 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:19.560 as well? 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.800 Oh yeah, yeah. Did he tell you that his favorite 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.000 restaurant was the Pacific Dining? Yes, he did, and they 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:26.560 closed it. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.560 I think, yeah, he loved that place. Did you ever 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:29.960 go there? 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.480 Oh yeah, I went there with him too, and. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:39.640 Mister Chow Tina Chow, and yeah, oh yeah, he's a 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:40.160 great man. 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.120 I went here one time and I with a friend 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.439 and he said can I bring a friend along? And 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.000 I said, yeah, who is it? And he said Graucho 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:55.959 Marx No. And so we met at Chow's here and 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.920 Graucho comes in and we all sit down and have 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.199 a good time. But then the food comes, and Graucho 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:08.040 has his food sent in from Nate and Al's delicatessen. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.520 He didn't even have the He said, I've heard about 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.240 this place. I've heard about this place, And so he 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:21.160 dined at Chow's restaurant without having its foods. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.199 I've heard of people, you know. Of course, people bring 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.000 their own wine at the River Caffine. People like to 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.120 bring their own wine and once somebody bought their own truffle. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.360 They've been to Italy and they brought a white truffle 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.480 and asked us if we would grade it for them 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.959 over their pasta. But I never actually have heard of 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.840 anybody actually ordering their own food. But I suppose if 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.480 you're Grouch and Marx. Yeah, but did you go to 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.360 chows a lot? Who would go there with you? Oh? 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.079 Lots of different people. I mean used to go there 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.880 with Tim Leary and his wife and they were regulars 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.920 there for a good while. And it's so good and 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.200 so traditional. I mean they opened I nineteen seventy five 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.920 or something like that, and they established a menu that 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.880 they really didn't vary from in London. 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.959 They used to have the kind of cart that you 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.520 could actually make the noodles. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.559 Yeah, yeah, they do that here too. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.040 Yeah we should all. Okay, are you going out much? 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:21.600 Are you trying to stay quiet? 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.000 I'm happy to you know. I love loud Hollywood parties, 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.480 but I don't miss them one iota. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.240 I I just been there and done that. Why did 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:33.360 you go to the desert? 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:34.840 Yeah, I go to the desert. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.720 What do you eat there? You hunt? 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.040 I used to do that, but I don't do that anymore. 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.400 And I have a lot of quail out there and 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:49.400 there there, oh it's out north of it's east of 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.640 Big Bear Lake. It's not the kind of desert that 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.640 is like palm Springs with palm trees. No palm trees 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.400 up there. They have Joshua trees. If you know what 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:07.680 those crazy things look like. Beautiful. They're very spiky, spik spiky, 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:12.199 and they look They got called Joshua trees because the 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:17.480 pioneers thought they looked like silhouettes of biblical figures. So 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.600 they call them Joshua trees. And that grows out there. 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:28.960 They're almost endangered because of the global warming. But then 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.959 I got pinion pines there and I harvest some of 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:38.040 the nuts. If you've got time to do that, well, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.719 just get the pine cones off the trees and very 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.880 carefully take all the little seeds out of it, but 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:49.240 usually the squirrels get them before you do. In order 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.760 to get a little handful of pine nuts, it takes 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.640 you about an hour, and then you have to get 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.800 the sap off your hands, wash your hands in gasoline. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:06.400 I don't know, but they're extremely delicious. Yeah, they're far 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.880 more delicious than the ones you actually buy in the market. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.600 Where you've kind of been through hell in this country 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.880 with our previous president and the wars and everything. And 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.240 I have a beautiful poster that you sent me, which 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.559 is a treasure. That was enough. Oh h can you 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:35.920 tell me the story of enough. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.040 I don't know where that came from. It's just well, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.120 Norman Lear asked me if I would do something, and 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.760 so that was just some incentive to make some statement 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.880 about the condition of America, and you know where people 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:57.360 sit on the subject, and so expressing myself in that 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.319 way in a poster was fun to do. You know. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.400 It was like, enough of this kind of politics. We've 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.199 got to move on from this to something better, and 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:08.920 luckily it moved that way. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.200 Yeah, maybe it'd be nice to talk about from the beginning. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.040 Tell me about where you grew up. 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.360 I was born in Omaha, Nebraska, very center of the 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.480 United States, and then we moved to Oklahoma when I 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.679 was like five years old. So then I grew up 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.679 from there, and it was kind of a cultural wasteland 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.960 in a lot of ways. Food especially, I mean, there 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.880 was no such thing as an artichoke or an avocado, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:41.760 barely no such thing as sushi there is there now, 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:47.319 of course, because it's multi dimensional. But I remember growing 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.760 up there and having these kind of foods, like about 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:56.120 their early nineteen fifties is when pizza came to fashion. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.760 And we didn't call it just pizza. We call it 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:05.679 pizza pie, pizza pie, pizza pie, pizza. Yeah, because you 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.439 originally came from Chicago. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.440 Or what state, New York state New and we had 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.560 real Southern Italian foods. 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:11.839 Yeah. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.000 I thought Italian food was meat boles and spaghetti and 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.520 eggplant parmesana and pizza pie until I went to Italy 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.840 thirty years later. Yeah, But go back to the pizza pie. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.080 When did that come? 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.400 Well, that started coming when around the time I was 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.480 in high school, and it became a popular go to 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.120 type of food, kind of novel and unique. And there 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.840 were half a dozen places in Oklahoma City that actually 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:44.280 served pizza pie, and one place was called Sussy's. That 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.560 was the place you'd always go to. 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.160 Who would cook in your house? Was it your mother? 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.520 Yeah? Did your father mom cooked? No, father didn't really 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:59.040 cook so much, but Mom tossed everything together and you know, 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.720 it was a really it was all meat and potatoes. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.600 I like her pies particularly, and she made a cherry 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.280 pie that I always liked. Also she made rhubarb pie, 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.200 which was another thing, And so that was big. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.120 Do you think the cherries were fresh or did she 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:18.360 get them from the cans? 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.880 She'd get them from a can or sometimes when they 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.960 were there, she would get them fresh. Yeah, And the 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.560 effort was not so much into absolutely fresh food back then. No, 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.640 canned food was very big and exciting. Yeah, And then 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:37.320 came frozen food after that, and there's you know, there's 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.440 a big debate over those nutritional value of those foods. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.880 Did your mom work? So she would work all day 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:44.600 and then come home. 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:49.560 She was a housekeeper and prepared food for us, And no, 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.080 she didn't have a job. And so I grew up 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.960 in the Bible Belt there and we were Catholics, so 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:03.080 we were called mackerel snappers is what people would call us, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.760 meaning you don't eat meat on Friday, you eat fish 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.800 on Friday. So mackerel snappers. But the kind of food 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.440 that they served there, the only international food was called 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:20.720 Chinese food, and every Chinese restaurant would always say on 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.600 the outside of the building Chinese and American food. 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.160 To alleviate the fear of working Chinese restaurants, and. 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.440 So you could get Chinese. Yes, you could get chop 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.760 suey things like that, and then you could also get 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.600 a hamburger. So they were gonna offer you Chinese food, 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.600 but also just in case, please come anyway because we 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.000 can make a hamburger for you. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.240 Familiar. Yeah, but did you go to restaurants, I mean, 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.200 would your parents take you out for a meal and 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:49.520 a time. 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.080 Occasionally we'd go to barbecue and that was popular. Then 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.560 the one food that was really hit it big was 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:03.080 okra Friday okra and they grow, yeah, they grow it 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.119 in a big way there, and so there's lots of 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:11.480 corn that you're giving almost every day. Yeah. Also during 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.840 the war we had a victory garden. It was sort 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.239 of pick yourself up by your booststraps by growing your 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.200 own food and participating in the war effort World War two. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.200 So it was an extension of that that sort of 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.840 went to your dinner table and other people would save 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.359 metal and that sort of thing to recycle into the 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:42.000 war effort. And so victory garden was it was a 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:47.600 very popular thing then. Just we'd grow tomatoes and corn 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:53.720 and celery and various vegetables, and that was kind of 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.600 a unified attitude at the time, to have victory gardens 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.320 in your backyard. I had a paper route in Oklahoma, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.680 and I deliver my papers at like four in the 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.280 morning and then come back and drink almost a half 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:14.560 a gallon of milk and then eight oh about twelve fourteen, 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:15.320 something like that. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.480 Yeah, you said that, You said once said that you 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.760 thought that Oklahoma was like a black and white movie. 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:21.840 Do you think that? Do you think back on those days? 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.000 I still do when I think back on it, But 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.040 as I go back there occasionally I see that it's 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.480 more progressive than I allow my mind to make it be. Yeah, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.879 so you know, it's caught up with the rest of 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:36.320 the world. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.720 What's happened to your house there? Do you still have? 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.520 It still stands? Yeah? 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.480 When was the first time you went to Europe? 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.600 About nineteen sixty one? And I went there with my 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:54.480 mother and brother and we bought a little Citron two 0:18:54.600 --> 0:19:00.040 CV automobile in Paris and drove it around Europe and 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.040 then came. Yeah, it was her first time too. So 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:05.800 what was that like? 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:07.440 What was it like? Food wise? 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.119 Well, food wise, well, we we were kind of on 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:19.960 a budget, So there wasn't nothing particularly fancy, but just 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:24.800 the idea of having you know, stumbling onto wild strawberry 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.399 which I'd never had before, those tiny little wild strawberries 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.080 was great. That was in France. We drove all over 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.560 Europe and for about four or five months, four or 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:42.040 five months, yeah, yeah, we went as far south. We 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:49.920 went to Yugoslavia, went to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, France, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:56.879 British Isles, went to Ireland try to find my mother's heritage, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.040 and never we struck out there, we couldn't find you. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.080 Did you paint or draw? 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.159 Yeah? I took a little homemade kit a package that 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.080 I would carry around and you know, allow me to 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:15.880 do something on about eight x ten format, and brought 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:20.159 paints along with me and worked like that. And my 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.520 mother came back to the States after about two months, 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.480 and then I stayed over there by myself for a while. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.600 One of the things that I think is very moving 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.919 about your studio, part from the garden and the trees 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.960 and of the fruit, is there seems to be a 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.520 very strong community there and that when you come to 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.240 London for your shows. When we went out to dinner afterwards, 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.159 I think It probably was the Tait and then there 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.439 was a dinner at the National Gallery. Because you had 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.600 two shows, you were the first artists, contemporary artists to 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.879 show singularly in the National Gallery. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.919 I was told that. I found it hard to believe, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.159 but it's true. Yeah, and then I think virget Riley 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.480 maybe had something yeah recently there. Yeah. Do you bring 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.080 everybody with you pretty much? 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.000 That's so nice. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.840 People that work with me, Yeah, travel with me. Yeah, 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:23.400 it's good. 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.320 You're animals, they're dogs. How many do you have any 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:28.480 idea of how many dogs? 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:35.680 Uh? Dana has five other dogs besides Dexter, so you 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.040 know she's got her handful. I mean she's got she 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:40.560 needs a kennel license. 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:42.640 Do you when you travel do you take a dog? 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:44.960 He goes with me every. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.560 So you have a painting called Dexter. 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:50.600 Again, don't give me any ideas. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:57.000 Can I just tell the story about I've had such 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.160 a kind of passion for the Ruby painting. No Ruby 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.320 meant to me. It filled me with kind of imagination, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.639 and I kept thinking, who is Ruby? So I just 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.960 dreamt about who Ruby could be. I thought she might 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.280 be a woman that you were in love with when 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.560 you were a teenager in Alcoholma. I thought she'd might 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.760 be your mother's name. I thought she could be a disappointment, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.040 somebody who left you, and I thought she could be 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.160 a tragedy of someone who died. And I just kept 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.879 thinking about because the way you wrote the ruby on 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.200 the painting just means so much to me. And I've 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.920 been trying to find a ruby painting. But when we 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.960 spent that time together in London, over days and nights, 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.200 I tried to I wanted to find a moment that 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.560 was quiet where I could ask you who she was 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.119 and what she meant to you, and I Dana was there, 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.199 and I thought maybe I should wait, and we were 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.040 to party, I should wait. But as I was saying 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.760 goodbye to you that night, I said to you, Ed, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.639 can I just ask you one question? Who was she? 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.200 Who was this ruby? Who was the inspiration for these beautiful, 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:04.320 beautiful paintings? And you said ruby was a dog. 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.720 That's right, that's right, But it was not the inspiration 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.439 for that painting or that work. It wasn't. The ruby 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.760 I did came long before the dog. Actually, yeah, And 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.840 so I don't I'm not really sure where that a 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.760 name came from. It didn't come from a person in 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.720 my life. I didn't know, but I liked ruby as 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.840 a feminine name, and it's just got a really good 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.200 sound to it. And also it has a double meaning 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:41.200 too with the gem ruby, and so it just meant 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.119 that to me and kind of was an excuse to 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:44.880 make a work. 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.280 It's a beautiful work. It's a beautiful, beautiful work. Thank you. 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.240 I have one last question. So you've described food as 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:57.960 a journey across Oklahoma to California. You've described it as 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:02.320 an explosion of Rold's strawberries in France. You've used it 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:06.840 in your work, used to actually paint made out of food. 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.760 But if you were feeling that you needed food is comfort? 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.160 Would you say there's a food you turned to in comfort? 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.680 I would say that some kind of soup might be 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:25.359 the answer. It's kind of traditionally of healing kind of food, 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:28.480