1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Adami's Studios. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 2: I'm sitting here in La with Dexter and ed Arusha. 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 2: Edvarusche is the artist and Dexter is the dog, and 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: I hope we're going to hear from them both in 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: the next half hour. Did you bring the cactus on it? 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeahay. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: There's a small work of art by my bed that 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 2: I say hello to every morning and say good night 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: to every night. I think of the day it arrived 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: in the River Cafe from Los Angeles, wrapped in layers 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 2: of bubble wrap. I knew then unwrapping it that this 13 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: was one I would never let out of my sight. 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 2: The artist was ed Rusche, and the word in bright red, 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: says Yum. I've known ed Risha's work since the early seventies. 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: I followed admired his work through his career, and in 17 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, in twenty twenty heat shows at the National 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: Gallery and Tape Modern and it was then that we 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: got to know each other well. Dinners at the River Cafe, 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: breakfast at clarriages, and we became friends. First I fell 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: in love with the art, and then I fell in 22 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: love with the artist. Would you like to read a recipe? 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 3: Shall I read your recipe, but I'd. 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: Like to hear yours. You'll be the first person to 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: read a recipe that is not a river cafe recipe, 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: And I think that's good. 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 3: What is that cactus omelet which I make occasionally? Do 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: you have to get Nopolito's little cactus pads that they 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: slice into little bits? And so? Says utensils omelet pan 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: are similar type pan with rounded bottom, mixing bowl, wire, 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: whisk or fork. Instructions. Break two eggs in bowls slightly 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: under mix with whisk or fork. Heat butter in pan 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: and ntil it bubbles and begins to turn brown. Add 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: the eggs and let them sit in the pan until 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 3: the bottom begins to harden. As soon as this sets, 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: but while the top is still moist, add salt and pepper, 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: cottage cheese, sprinkle celery on top, followed by the nopoleitos let. 38 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: The omelet set for about one minute over a low 39 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 3: fire roll omelet out of pan and onto plate. 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: Where does this recipe come from? 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 3: I sort of made it up, yeah, And I always 42 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 3: like the taste of they're kind of slimy of cactus, 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: you know, nopoletos, but they have a flavor all their own, 44 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: and I've always liked them. 45 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, where we live, we don't get 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: cactus cacti. So was it when you came out here 47 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: to you at it? 48 00:02:59,680 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: You go in the desert? 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 3: Uh, well, Los Angeles. 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: I've talked to artists. I've interviewed Damien and Tracy, but 52 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: I haven't had an artist or painted about We talk 53 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: about food and how food in their life and food 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: in their art. But you actually painted with food, use 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: egg yolk, and you usedn't you. Is that a certain 56 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: period that you started painting with with actually food. 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I was frustrated with art materials or it 58 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 3: felt like I had reached a apex or a stopping 59 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: off point. And then I thought about why you can 60 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: make marks on paper or on canvas with any number 61 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: of things. Why does it have to be pigments? And 62 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: so then I started using these things like axle, grease 63 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: and caviar, and well, it's of course egg, and it's 64 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: pretty stable and and it hardens and it's proven to 65 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 3: be pretty pretty stable over the years. 66 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: Also, the paintings that you did with caviar. Still yeah, 67 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: still still there. 68 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: They've yellowed a little bit. But yeah, that's what do 69 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: we call that entropy or something? 70 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: But you don't do anymore. 71 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 3: No, I haven't done that for a while. Maybe we should, 72 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: but don't give me any idea. 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: I think I'm going to give you an idea. When 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: I came to a studio, you have an orchard in 75 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: the back, and I was wondering, you know, what what 76 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: does that mean to you to have fruit growing in 77 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: behind your studio. 78 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: Well, fortunately I got this building that had a large 79 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: backyard I had no real use for, so I sort 80 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: of divided the backyard in half and I thought, well, 81 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: I'll just put an orchard in here. And I've always 82 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: wanted to gross interest and other things too, figs, pomegranates, cherries. 83 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 3: And then I've got some raised beds there that that 84 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: I grow. I was growing the world's hottest pepper the 85 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: boot you're Lochia. It's like an Indian called ghost pepper. 86 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: It measures out to be the hottest pepper in the world. Well, 87 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: I mean, how do you eat it? That's a nobody 88 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: ever has the answer to that. That's too powerful, I guess, 89 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: so and make it so fine, grind it so fine, 90 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: and I think there are people that are still working 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: on it to get the get the Blue Ribbon for 92 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: the hottest pepper that so. 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: That it judges that competition. But you cook a lot, 94 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: don't you. That recipe for an omelet is a really 95 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: interesting recipe because it's using an ingredient that is so local. 96 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: You know, you go into great depth to tell how 97 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 2: you fry the eggs, you season it, the heat of 98 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: the pan. That's a chef's recipe. 99 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 3: Well it's sort of hit and miss, you know, And 100 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: so that's fine. Since I'm usually cooking for myself, it 101 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 3: doesn't matter. But only other thing I really cook is chili, 102 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 3: and I like to make chili. I make it without onions, 103 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: without beans, and without tomatoes. That's fun to make, and 104 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: that takes a few hours to do that, but it's 105 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: worth it. 106 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: When you're painting, how do you eat and paint generally? 107 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: And I don't even eat lunch. I mean I will 108 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: maybe have a banana or a piece of fruit, and 109 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 3: that's my lunch. I don't eat three meals a day 110 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: like I used to. But I know it's in our 111 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: artistic tradition. It's always been a ceremony with artists to 112 00:06:53,640 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: stop working at eleven forty five and sit on and 113 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: I don't drink wine. Yeah, so, and then you know, 114 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 3: it's also a tradition to have wine with lunch. 115 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: But in New York in the kind of sixties seventies, 116 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: wasn't there the whole thing where artists would be in 117 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: their studios all day, very solitary, and then go to 118 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: Max's or to you know, to the culture of kind 119 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: of being alone and then going out every night. And 120 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: were you ever part of that culture or was it lle. 121 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's the pandemonium of crowds of people in 122 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: a place like Max's, Kansas City or any of those 123 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: kind of places, and it was almost ceremonial. You know, 124 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: you'd go and have great fun and drink, and uh, 125 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: that was part of life. 126 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: I guess you live in New York. 127 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: Did You never did live in New York. No. It 128 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: was always too complicated or too expensive for me to 129 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: live there. And uh, just the idea of trying to 130 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: take a two by four across town was such an 131 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: issue that made California impossibly convenient. 132 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw Frank Gary yesterday and we talked about 133 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: the camaraderie between for him, many more artists and architects. 134 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: He just loved the feeling of the la kind of 135 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: artists being together here. Was that part of your world 136 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: as well? 137 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. Did he tell you that his favorite 138 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: restaurant was the Pacific Dining? Yes, he did, and they 139 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: closed it. 140 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, he loved that place. Did you ever 141 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: go there? 142 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I went there with him too, and. 143 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: Mister Chow Tina Chow, and yeah, oh yeah, he's a 144 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: great man. 145 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: I went here one time and I with a friend 146 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 3: and he said can I bring a friend along? And 147 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: I said, yeah, who is it? And he said Graucho 148 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 3: Marx No. And so we met at Chow's here and 149 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: Graucho comes in and we all sit down and have 150 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 3: a good time. But then the food comes, and Graucho 151 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: has his food sent in from Nate and Al's delicatessen. 152 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: He didn't even have the He said, I've heard about 153 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: this place. I've heard about this place, And so he 154 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: dined at Chow's restaurant without having its foods. 155 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 2: I've heard of people, you know. Of course, people bring 156 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: their own wine at the River Caffine. People like to 157 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: bring their own wine and once somebody bought their own truffle. 158 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: They've been to Italy and they brought a white truffle 159 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: and asked us if we would grade it for them 160 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: over their pasta. But I never actually have heard of 161 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: anybody actually ordering their own food. But I suppose if 162 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: you're Grouch and Marx. Yeah, but did you go to 163 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: chows a lot? Who would go there with you? Oh? 164 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 3: Lots of different people. I mean used to go there 165 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: with Tim Leary and his wife and they were regulars 166 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 3: there for a good while. And it's so good and 167 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: so traditional. I mean they opened I nineteen seventy five 168 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: or something like that, and they established a menu that 169 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: they really didn't vary from in London. 170 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 2: They used to have the kind of cart that you 171 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: could actually make the noodles. 172 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they do that here too. 173 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: Yeah we should all. Okay, are you going out much? 174 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: Are you trying to stay quiet? 175 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: I'm happy to you know. I love loud Hollywood parties, 176 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 3: but I don't miss them one iota. 177 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: I I just been there and done that. Why did 178 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: you go to the desert? 179 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I go to the desert. 180 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: What do you eat there? You hunt? 181 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 3: I used to do that, but I don't do that anymore. 182 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 3: And I have a lot of quail out there and 183 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: there there, oh it's out north of it's east of 184 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 3: Big Bear Lake. It's not the kind of desert that 185 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: is like palm Springs with palm trees. No palm trees 186 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: up there. They have Joshua trees. If you know what 187 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 3: those crazy things look like. Beautiful. They're very spiky, spik spiky, 188 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 3: and they look They got called Joshua trees because the 189 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: pioneers thought they looked like silhouettes of biblical figures. So 190 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 3: they call them Joshua trees. And that grows out there. 191 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: They're almost endangered because of the global warming. But then 192 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 3: I got pinion pines there and I harvest some of 193 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: the nuts. If you've got time to do that, well, 194 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 3: just get the pine cones off the trees and very 195 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: carefully take all the little seeds out of it, but 196 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: usually the squirrels get them before you do. In order 197 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: to get a little handful of pine nuts, it takes 198 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: you about an hour, and then you have to get 199 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: the sap off your hands, wash your hands in gasoline. 200 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: I don't know, but they're extremely delicious. Yeah, they're far 201 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: more delicious than the ones you actually buy in the market. 202 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: Where you've kind of been through hell in this country 203 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: with our previous president and the wars and everything. And 204 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: I have a beautiful poster that you sent me, which 205 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 2: is a treasure. That was enough. Oh h can you 206 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: tell me the story of enough. 207 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: I don't know where that came from. It's just well, 208 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: Norman Lear asked me if I would do something, and 209 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: so that was just some incentive to make some statement 210 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: about the condition of America, and you know where people 211 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: sit on the subject, and so expressing myself in that 212 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 3: way in a poster was fun to do. You know. 213 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 3: It was like, enough of this kind of politics. We've 214 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 3: got to move on from this to something better, and 215 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: luckily it moved that way. 216 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it'd be nice to talk about from the beginning. 217 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: Tell me about where you grew up. 218 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: I was born in Omaha, Nebraska, very center of the 219 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: United States, and then we moved to Oklahoma when I 220 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 3: was like five years old. So then I grew up 221 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 3: from there, and it was kind of a cultural wasteland 222 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. Food especially, I mean, there 223 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 3: was no such thing as an artichoke or an avocado, 224 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: barely no such thing as sushi there is there now, 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 3: of course, because it's multi dimensional. But I remember growing 226 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: up there and having these kind of foods, like about 227 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: their early nineteen fifties is when pizza came to fashion. 228 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: And we didn't call it just pizza. We call it 229 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 3: pizza pie, pizza pie, pizza pie, pizza. Yeah, because you 230 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 3: originally came from Chicago. 231 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 2: Or what state, New York state New and we had 232 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: real Southern Italian foods. 233 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 3: Yeah. 234 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: I thought Italian food was meat boles and spaghetti and 235 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: eggplant parmesana and pizza pie until I went to Italy 236 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: thirty years later. Yeah, But go back to the pizza pie. 237 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: When did that come? 238 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 3: Well, that started coming when around the time I was 239 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 3: in high school, and it became a popular go to 240 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: type of food, kind of novel and unique. And there 241 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: were half a dozen places in Oklahoma City that actually 242 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: served pizza pie, and one place was called Sussy's. That 243 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 3: was the place you'd always go to. 244 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: Who would cook in your house? Was it your mother? 245 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? Did your father mom cooked? No, father didn't really 246 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: cook so much, but Mom tossed everything together and you know, 247 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: it was a really it was all meat and potatoes. 248 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: I like her pies particularly, and she made a cherry 249 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: pie that I always liked. Also she made rhubarb pie, 250 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: which was another thing, And so that was big. 251 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: Do you think the cherries were fresh or did she 252 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: get them from the cans? 253 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 3: She'd get them from a can or sometimes when they 254 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: were there, she would get them fresh. Yeah, And the 255 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: effort was not so much into absolutely fresh food back then. No, 256 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: canned food was very big and exciting. Yeah, And then 257 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 3: came frozen food after that, and there's you know, there's 258 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: a big debate over those nutritional value of those foods. 259 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: Did your mom work? So she would work all day 260 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: and then come home. 261 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: She was a housekeeper and prepared food for us, And no, 262 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 3: she didn't have a job. And so I grew up 263 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: in the Bible Belt there and we were Catholics, so 264 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: we were called mackerel snappers is what people would call us, 265 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: meaning you don't eat meat on Friday, you eat fish 266 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: on Friday. So mackerel snappers. But the kind of food 267 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: that they served there, the only international food was called 268 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 3: Chinese food, and every Chinese restaurant would always say on 269 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: the outside of the building Chinese and American food. 270 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 2: To alleviate the fear of working Chinese restaurants, and. 271 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: So you could get Chinese. Yes, you could get chop 272 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: suey things like that, and then you could also get 273 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 3: a hamburger. So they were gonna offer you Chinese food, 274 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: but also just in case, please come anyway because we 275 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: can make a hamburger for you. 276 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: Familiar. Yeah, but did you go to restaurants, I mean, 277 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: would your parents take you out for a meal and 278 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: a time. 279 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: Occasionally we'd go to barbecue and that was popular. Then 280 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: the one food that was really hit it big was 281 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: okra Friday okra and they grow, yeah, they grow it 282 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 3: in a big way there, and so there's lots of 283 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: corn that you're giving almost every day. Yeah. Also during 284 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 3: the war we had a victory garden. It was sort 285 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 3: of pick yourself up by your booststraps by growing your 286 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: own food and participating in the war effort World War two. 287 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 3: So it was an extension of that that sort of 288 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: went to your dinner table and other people would save 289 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 3: metal and that sort of thing to recycle into the 290 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: war effort. And so victory garden was it was a 291 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: very popular thing then. Just we'd grow tomatoes and corn 292 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 3: and celery and various vegetables, and that was kind of 293 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: a unified attitude at the time, to have victory gardens 294 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 3: in your backyard. I had a paper route in Oklahoma, 295 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 3: and I deliver my papers at like four in the 296 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: morning and then come back and drink almost a half 297 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: a gallon of milk and then eight oh about twelve fourteen, 298 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: something like that. 299 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you said that, You said once said that you 300 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: thought that Oklahoma was like a black and white movie. 301 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: Do you think that? Do you think back on those days? 302 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 3: I still do when I think back on it, But 303 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: as I go back there occasionally I see that it's 304 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 3: more progressive than I allow my mind to make it be. Yeah, 305 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 3: so you know, it's caught up with the rest of 306 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 3: the world. 307 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: What's happened to your house there? Do you still have? 308 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 3: It still stands? Yeah? 309 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: When was the first time you went to Europe? 310 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: About nineteen sixty one? And I went there with my 311 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: mother and brother and we bought a little Citron two 312 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 3: CV automobile in Paris and drove it around Europe and 313 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: then came. Yeah, it was her first time too. So 314 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: what was that like? 315 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: What was it like? Food wise? 316 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 3: Well, food wise, well, we we were kind of on 317 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 3: a budget, So there wasn't nothing particularly fancy, but just 318 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 3: the idea of having you know, stumbling onto wild strawberry 319 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 3: which I'd never had before, those tiny little wild strawberries 320 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 3: was great. That was in France. We drove all over 321 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 3: Europe and for about four or five months, four or 322 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: five months, yeah, yeah, we went as far south. We 323 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 3: went to Yugoslavia, went to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, France, 324 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 3: British Isles, went to Ireland try to find my mother's heritage, 325 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 3: and never we struck out there, we couldn't find you. 326 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: Did you paint or draw? 327 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 3: Yeah? I took a little homemade kit a package that 328 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: I would carry around and you know, allow me to 329 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: do something on about eight x ten format, and brought 330 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 3: paints along with me and worked like that. And my 331 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 3: mother came back to the States after about two months, 332 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 3: and then I stayed over there by myself for a while. 333 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is very moving 334 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 2: about your studio, part from the garden and the trees 335 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: and of the fruit, is there seems to be a 336 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: very strong community there and that when you come to 337 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: London for your shows. When we went out to dinner afterwards, 338 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 2: I think It probably was the Tait and then there 339 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 2: was a dinner at the National Gallery. Because you had 340 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: two shows, you were the first artists, contemporary artists to 341 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: show singularly in the National Gallery. 342 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 3: I was told that. I found it hard to believe, 343 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 3: but it's true. Yeah, and then I think virget Riley 344 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 3: maybe had something yeah recently there. Yeah. Do you bring 345 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: everybody with you pretty much? 346 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: That's so nice. 347 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 3: People that work with me, Yeah, travel with me. Yeah, 348 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 3: it's good. 349 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: You're animals, they're dogs. How many do you have any 350 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: idea of how many dogs? 351 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 3: Uh? Dana has five other dogs besides Dexter, so you 352 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: know she's got her handful. I mean she's got she 353 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: needs a kennel license. 354 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: Do you when you travel do you take a dog? 355 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 3: He goes with me every. 356 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: So you have a painting called Dexter. 357 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 3: Again, don't give me any ideas. 358 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: Can I just tell the story about I've had such 359 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 2: a kind of passion for the Ruby painting. No Ruby 360 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: meant to me. It filled me with kind of imagination, 361 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: and I kept thinking, who is Ruby? So I just 362 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: dreamt about who Ruby could be. I thought she might 363 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: be a woman that you were in love with when 364 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: you were a teenager in Alcoholma. I thought she'd might 365 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: be your mother's name. I thought she could be a disappointment, 366 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: somebody who left you, and I thought she could be 367 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 2: a tragedy of someone who died. And I just kept 368 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 2: thinking about because the way you wrote the ruby on 369 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: the painting just means so much to me. And I've 370 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: been trying to find a ruby painting. But when we 371 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: spent that time together in London, over days and nights, 372 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: I tried to I wanted to find a moment that 373 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: was quiet where I could ask you who she was 374 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: and what she meant to you, and I Dana was there, 375 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: and I thought maybe I should wait, and we were 376 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: to party, I should wait. But as I was saying 377 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: goodbye to you that night, I said to you, Ed, 378 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 2: can I just ask you one question? Who was she? 379 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: Who was this ruby? Who was the inspiration for these beautiful, 380 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 2: beautiful paintings? And you said ruby was a dog. 381 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, But it was not the inspiration 382 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 3: for that painting or that work. It wasn't. The ruby 383 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: I did came long before the dog. Actually, yeah, And 384 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 3: so I don't I'm not really sure where that a 385 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: name came from. It didn't come from a person in 386 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: my life. I didn't know, but I liked ruby as 387 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 3: a feminine name, and it's just got a really good 388 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: sound to it. And also it has a double meaning 389 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: too with the gem ruby, and so it just meant 390 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 3: that to me and kind of was an excuse to 391 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 3: make a work. 392 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: It's a beautiful work. It's a beautiful, beautiful work. Thank you. 393 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: I have one last question. So you've described food as 394 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 2: a journey across Oklahoma to California. You've described it as 395 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: an explosion of Rold's strawberries in France. You've used it 396 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: in your work, used to actually paint made out of food. 397 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: But if you were feeling that you needed food is comfort? 398 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 2: Would you say there's a food you turned to in comfort? 399 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 3: I would say that some kind of soup might be 400 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: the answer. It's kind of traditionally of healing kind of food, 401 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 3: so soup of almost any kind. 402 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: Maybe you're chili, would your chili could. 403 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 3: Be although chili might make you hop up and down, yeah, 404 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 3: they may not be so RESTful, but comfort food might 405 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 3: be in the form of some kind of vegetable soup. 406 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got that good. So are you staying here 407 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 2: for a bit, you're going. 408 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 3: Actually, I am going to the desert. Yeah today. Yeah. 409 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: I hope I'll see you soon. 410 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 411 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook is now available in bookshops and online. 412 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: It has over one hundred recipes beautifully illustrated with photographs 413 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty 414 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of 415 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks. 416 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for cooks of all ages. 417 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios. 418 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 419 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.