Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd,
Speaker 1: and this is there are no girls on the Internet.
Speaker 1: There's no real way to sugarcoat at y'all. Things are bad.
Speaker 1: So last night Political published elite draft opinion from a
Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice Alito that pretty much lays out the
Speaker 1: groundwork for the Supreme Court overturning Roe versus Wade, the
Speaker 1: landmark Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion in the United States.
Speaker 1: And what's really gross and fucked up to me is
Speaker 1: that Elito based it on a thoroughly debunked anti choice
Speaker 1: extremist talking point about abortions being a tool to control
Speaker 1: black populations. And he also went out of his way
Speaker 1: to set the stage for this opinion to service the
Speaker 1: basis for undermining other rights in the future, like marriage
Speaker 1: equality and interracial marriages, at a time when the rights
Speaker 1: of people of color are queer folks and trans folks
Speaker 1: are already very much under attack. Now, this opinion is
Speaker 1: completely outrageous, but it is still just a draft until
Speaker 1: the final Supreme Court decisions come out in June, so
Speaker 1: that means for now abortion is still legal, and I
Speaker 1: know things are awful. I'm angry, I'm scared, I'm exhausted,
Speaker 1: and I am willing to bet that you are too.
Speaker 1: But it is not all bad. The good news is
Speaker 1: that this leaked opinion gives us time to mobilize donate
Speaker 1: money to abortion networks by going to Abortion Funds dot
Speaker 1: org or Tango dot com slash donate. People all over
Speaker 1: the country depend on abortion funds and their difficult work
Speaker 1: is about to get even harder, so you can really
Speaker 1: make a difference by supporting their critical life saving work.
Speaker 1: And the second piece of good news is that in December,
Speaker 1: the f d A permanently eased rules on abortion pills,
Speaker 1: making it easier to access pills online through telemedicine, which
Speaker 1: will become even more important if and when ROW is overturned.
Speaker 1: Abortion pills are safe and effective. That's why, though tempting
Speaker 1: using scary images of coat hangers to talk about Row
Speaker 1: being overturned isn't really accurate or all that helpful, you
Speaker 1: can visit plan c pills dot org for help finding
Speaker 1: abortion pills in all fifty states. Access to abortion pills
Speaker 1: is an issue that has huge tech implications because even
Speaker 1: though abortion pills are safe. The real fight in states
Speaker 1: that criminalized self managed abortion is now about online surveillance,
Speaker 1: both surveillance of people who need abortions and people who
Speaker 1: help others get abortions. Things like online search histories and
Speaker 1: chats have been used to create digital paper trails to
Speaker 1: criminalize accessing abortion pills online. I enjoined my friends Sam
Speaker 1: and Annie at the podcast stuff Mom Never Told You
Speaker 1: to discuss the tech implications of accessing abortion pills via
Speaker 1: telemedicine and why it's a win for abortion rights at
Speaker 1: a time when frankly, I think we could all really
Speaker 1: use one. Everybody is is to have autonomy over their
Speaker 1: own body, access to healthcare, access to abortion care if
Speaker 1: they need it. Even the conversation I feel is we
Speaker 1: shouldn't even have to be fighting for stuff like this.
Speaker 1: But you know, in the fight for abortion rights that
Speaker 1: can be very negative, very taking many, many many steps back,
Speaker 1: and so I do think it's important to, you know,
Speaker 1: highlight when we have something that is not all happening,
Speaker 1: and this is actually something I think I've seen it
Speaker 1: in the headlines, and I know you and I talked
Speaker 1: about it bridget a while back, several years ago, and
Speaker 1: I not, I didn't really know much about the abortion pill,
Speaker 1: so can you can you tell us what it is
Speaker 1: and how it works? Absolutely so. According to Planned Parenthood,
Speaker 1: the so called abortion pill is a popular name for
Speaker 1: two different medicines used to end a pregnancy, miffor pretty
Speaker 1: zone and another one, myso pro satol. So pregnancy needs
Speaker 1: the hormone called pro estrogen to grow normally, and miffor
Speaker 1: pretty zone blocks your protty's own pro estrogen. And so
Speaker 1: basically it's just a combination of pills that you take
Speaker 1: to induce an abortion. Yes, And I know, like you know,
Speaker 1: this conversation isn't only limited to the US, was it Ireland?
Speaker 1: Had it somewhere? Had a similar kind of conversation with
Speaker 1: Scotland and ay, you and I we did that whole
Speaker 1: episode about UM the changing rules in the UK because
Speaker 1: the United States and so this is definitely a global
Speaker 1: issue and issue where like other countries and other regions
Speaker 1: have different standards of the legality of how pregnant people
Speaker 1: can access this kind of medication to get the abortion
Speaker 1: care they need. Yeah, and one of the things that
Speaker 1: we talked about in that episode was also tele medicine
Speaker 1: UM and being able to get it and like from
Speaker 1: the comfort of your own home, and how I'm pooring
Speaker 1: that was for a lot of people for this um, So,
Speaker 1: can you share the history of this kind of abortion
Speaker 1: care via telemedicine in the US? Totally? So tell a
Speaker 1: medicine if you don't know what that is is basically
Speaker 1: when you access your doctor through the internet through your
Speaker 1: phone through video conferencing. That's kind of like the thing
Speaker 1: for me that makes this kind of a tech story
Speaker 1: is that people have been relying on that kind of
Speaker 1: technology enabled healthcare for a really long time. So abortion
Speaker 1: via telemedicine has been available in the US since around
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, when the first formal program began
Speaker 1: an eyewab, a patient and one clinic can confer via
Speaker 1: video conference with a doctor and another clinic and then
Speaker 1: they would get their pills to induce an abortion. And
Speaker 1: that video conferencing element that satisfied a federal requirement that
Speaker 1: a doctor had to dispense the medication to induce an
Speaker 1: abortion in a clinic office or hospital. And so that
Speaker 1: was a real instance where technology bridged that gap that
Speaker 1: satisfied this federal requirement that a doctor or dispense I'm
Speaker 1: using quotes around that this medication, and so there are
Speaker 1: so many reasons why that would be a huge deal
Speaker 1: for people who are pregnant or really anybody looking for
Speaker 1: any kind of healthcare. Because if you're someone who lives
Speaker 1: in a rural community or a remote community, you can't
Speaker 1: always get to a clinic. Maybe there's not one close.
Speaker 1: Let's say you don't have a car. Let's say you're
Speaker 1: just a busy person with a lot on your plate
Speaker 1: and you can't physically go see a doctor. Telemedicine really
Speaker 1: is this thing that can really bridge that gap and
Speaker 1: bring the health care that folks need right into their homes,
Speaker 1: and so huge, huge deal. Unfortunately, opponents responded pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: prohibiting abortion via telemedicine in twenty state. In the US,
Speaker 1: the FDA regulates medication abortion under a set of rules
Speaker 1: called the Risk Evaluation and Medigation Strategy or r e
Speaker 1: m S, which determines how and which doctors can provide
Speaker 1: abortion toils to patients. There was this really interesting paper
Speaker 1: called sixteen years of Overregulation Time to Unburden myth Reprics
Speaker 1: publish in twenty seventeen in the New England Journal of
Speaker 1: Medicine UM we're leading clinicians and public health experts argued
Speaker 1: that the FDA restrictions were medically unnecessary, and a c
Speaker 1: l U attorneys noted that the leading medical groups, including
Speaker 1: the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, support making abortion
Speaker 1: bills available by prescription at pharmacies. Um And here's a
Speaker 1: really good quote from one of the doctors. He says,
Speaker 1: overwhelming medical evidence and decades of clinical experience show medication
Speaker 1: abortion to be a safe and effective method to end pregnancy.
Speaker 1: There are simply no medical justifications for these restrictions, and
Speaker 1: they create a needless and harmful burden for women seeking
Speaker 1: in this care. And I think that really sums up
Speaker 1: I feel what this conversation is about. It's about what
Speaker 1: happens when there are needless and undo burdens that separate
Speaker 1: people from the medical care and including abortion care that
Speaker 1: they need. This also reminds me of because a lot
Speaker 1: of what you talk about, Bridget has to do with, yes,
Speaker 1: the Internet and misinformation and disinformation. And I know we've
Speaker 1: had conversations around CPCs or Christis Pregnancy centers. How when
Speaker 1: you'll type you know, where do I get an abortion?
Speaker 1: A lot of times, the results will be like the
Speaker 1: first results will be um d C PCs, and I
Speaker 1: can just imagine for people trying to get access to
Speaker 1: to this medication the same kind of issue there. And
Speaker 1: then on top of that people have been arrested. Correct, Oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: so the s I a legal team, a group of
Speaker 1: lawyers who specialized in people who have induced their own abortions,
Speaker 1: knows of twenty one people who have been arrested or
Speaker 1: prosecuted for ending their pregnancies outside of this medical setting
Speaker 1: that was required, you know, in terms of medication abortion
Speaker 1: or helping someone else do it. This actually might even
Speaker 1: be under accounted since they rely on news reports such fact.
Speaker 1: These cases the charge is brought against people who self
Speaker 1: abord can range from child abuse, the abuse of a corpse,
Speaker 1: or failure to report death. Now, to be clear, none
Speaker 1: of the women were prosecuted for buying abortion pills specifically,
Speaker 1: but they note that buying pills online or even googling
Speaker 1: phrases like buy abortion pills online, can leave a paper
Speaker 1: trail that be used as evidence against them in a trial.
Speaker 1: And so this is not something that is abstract like
Speaker 1: we in this country, people have been prosecuted for trying
Speaker 1: to induce abortions on their own via pills they get online.
Speaker 1: A famous case in twenty fifteen, Indiana woman named Pervy
Speaker 1: Patel was sentenced to twenty years in prison for feet
Speaker 1: aside after she allegedly used abortion pills that she ordered online.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors claimed that her feet is had been quote born
Speaker 1: alive and that she allowed it to die, but later
Speaker 1: her conviction was overturned on appeal. So again we are
Speaker 1: talking about very real circumstances where this this right to
Speaker 1: access abortion care via pills via tel medicine online has
Speaker 1: been really a fraught thing that people have been prosecuted
Speaker 1: for trying to do. And you know, we have all
Speaker 1: of these instances where people have subjected themselves to unsafe,
Speaker 1: sketchy abortion pills be house of the undue burdens that
Speaker 1: have been put in place to prevent them from getting
Speaker 1: access to the care they need. The case for the
Speaker 1: woman in Indiana, even though it's not related, kind of
Speaker 1: brings back the memories of what just happened in Alabama
Speaker 1: recently with a woman who lost the fetus wanting to
Speaker 1: have this spread baby, not trying to have an abortion,
Speaker 1: but got prosecuted with those same types of charges for
Speaker 1: neglect of a fetus, and I'm like, we all were horrified,
Speaker 1: and had it not been publicized, she probably would still
Speaker 1: have remained in jail or prison. And it also takes
Speaker 1: me to what's happening in Texas As the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: is now allowing the bounty law. That's what I'm calling it.
Speaker 1: I know that's not what it's actually called for it
Speaker 1: to go. And I'm wondering how this is going to affect, uh,
Speaker 1: if people are trying to access abortion pills, and then
Speaker 1: we are you already said I believe that twenty states
Speaker 1: are not allowing for this type of access in anyway.
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing Texas is one of those. I'm on
Speaker 1: siguessing Georgia is too that how this is going to
Speaker 1: affect even more so in trying to prosecute those with
Speaker 1: yours or those who are helping trying to get access
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, it's a great question, and I think
Speaker 1: it really underscores just what scary dire times we are in.
Speaker 1: You know, I remember talking to my mom about, you know,
Speaker 1: when she was coming of age, protesting for you know,
Speaker 1: abortion on her campus, trying to get access to birth
Speaker 1: control pills, and she once told me she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: when I was doing all of that back then, I
Speaker 1: knew at least when I had a daughter, she wouldn't
Speaker 1: have to sort of fight these same fights, that these
Speaker 1: fights would be over and done with. At the time
Speaker 1: my daughter was here, well talk about, you know, predictions
Speaker 1: that didn't come true. She was wrong. Here I am
Speaker 1: her adult daughter still having to deal with this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. And so we are in a really scary
Speaker 1: time for abortion access for anybody who cares about abortion access,
Speaker 1: and that should really be everybody, everybody, regardless of gender,
Speaker 1: should care about this. And so I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I I think that sometimes I'll see, like I think
Speaker 1: it was Chris Hayes who tweeted something, and I like
Speaker 1: Chris Hayes. I'm not I'm not trying to like get
Speaker 1: down on him, but he tweeted about I think the
Speaker 1: Texas abortion bill, like, oh, I think that we're going
Speaker 1: to see miscarriage is being criminalized next, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you, Chris Hayes, but
Speaker 1: we're there that happened, you know. This is exactly that
Speaker 1: same level of like, oh my god, we're still fighting
Speaker 1: for access. We're still trying to have this conversation about
Speaker 1: bodily autonomy for those with yours is those who are
Speaker 1: non binary, like trying to figure out how to even
Speaker 1: have rights at all. Like honestly, seeing the news as
Speaker 1: I talked about it earlier, I was like, but but
Speaker 1: waiting for you know, they had to drop waiting for
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's gonna go fall apart. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how even how the FDA even came to
Speaker 1: this point, How did we get here, which is amazing,
Speaker 1: but how well. I actually have an answer for you,
Speaker 1: which is like, as much as I hated COVID, we
Speaker 1: kind of have COVID to thank for this important change.
Speaker 1: And so this new change, to be clear, Um, it's
Speaker 1: not going to impact everyone on every state, like you said,
Speaker 1: but the reason why we have it is because of
Speaker 1: COVID restrictions and so in during the pandemic, medical groups
Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit asking that the in person dispensing requirement
Speaker 1: be lifted because the pandemic meant that patients were faced
Speaker 1: with a greater risk of being infected um with coronavirus
Speaker 1: if they were visiting clinics in person to get pills,
Speaker 1: and so a judge granted that request this that summer,
Speaker 1: but after a challenge by the Trump administration, of course,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court reinstated the restriction. In March, medical organizations
Speaker 1: try it again right into President Biden end Vice President Harris.
Speaker 1: In April, the FDA decided not to enforce the in
Speaker 1: person requirement for the duration of the pandemic and allowed
Speaker 1: these pills to be mailed to folks. And again yesterday,
Speaker 1: the big decision is that that change, which at that
Speaker 1: point was temporary, is going to be made permanent. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, the pandemic I hated, I hate it, obviously,
Speaker 1: but this is one of those things where I think
Speaker 1: that the people who were fighting for these regulars this
Speaker 1: regulation change really saw a way to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to ask people to go in
Speaker 1: person to get the abortion care they need, particularly during
Speaker 1: a pandemic, and then being like and also, shouldn't we
Speaker 1: just end it all together? You know, I really appreciate
Speaker 1: them kind of like the strategy of this, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: we gotta find your like you said, your wins and
Speaker 1: your chances where you can, and if it's a pandemic,
Speaker 1: well so could you go into just a bit more
Speaker 1: like what exactly this this ruling is means in terms
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, the states and how it's like specifically
Speaker 1: impacting different states, and um, just what does it all
Speaker 1: meant totally? I want to make clear that, like, it
Speaker 1: is important to know that this will not impact everyone
Speaker 1: in every state. As you said, in nineteen states and
Speaker 1: mostly in the South and the Midwest, telemedicine visits for
Speaker 1: abortion are banned, and so that really, you know, there's
Speaker 1: really no change in those states. And and then you know,
Speaker 1: because everything is awful, and that because you know, the
Speaker 1: powers that be are constantly chipping away at our rights
Speaker 1: and our our access to abortion care. Um, we do
Speaker 1: believe that conservative states are expected to pass other laws
Speaker 1: to further curtail the access to abortion pills. And so
Speaker 1: even though again I feel like this is a win,
Speaker 1: I want to be clear of that is not a
Speaker 1: win that impacts everybody. And so this means that people
Speaker 1: who live in states that do not allow telemedicine for
Speaker 1: abortion must travel to a state that does, although and
Speaker 1: this is kind of a weird point, they do not
Speaker 1: have to visit a clinic. They may be in any
Speaker 1: location within that state for their telehealth visit, even inside
Speaker 1: of a car. They may receive pills at any address
Speaker 1: in that state. So again, it just seems like such
Speaker 1: a weird, obviously bull burden to be like, well, if
Speaker 1: you're in this state that does not allow for telemedicine
Speaker 1: appointments for abortion pills, you can't get them. But if
Speaker 1: you drive to a state that does allow them, you
Speaker 1: can sit in the Wendy's parking lot and have a
Speaker 1: telemedicine and visit over your phone in your car, and
Speaker 1: then that's all good. That again, it just seems like
Speaker 1: it's really reveals that this is about putting ridiculous burdens
Speaker 1: and barriers to prevent people from getting the abortion care
Speaker 1: they need. Like what if you don't have a car,
Speaker 1: What if you don't have the financial means to drive
Speaker 1: to another state, What if you have to work or
Speaker 1: already have kids and don't really have the ability to
Speaker 1: just like take a trip like this. It seems like
Speaker 1: such an obvious way to just prevent people from getting
Speaker 1: the care they need, And like, to me, it just
Speaker 1: like my bulls alarm goes off, like this is clearly
Speaker 1: it's like let's just make it hard for people to
Speaker 1: get the care they need. Yeah, I mean this is
Speaker 1: such a like a much more superficial problem. But it
Speaker 1: reminds me of when I was a kid. Um we
Speaker 1: would drive to the border of Alabama and where I'm
Speaker 1: located in Georgia, and we'd right into the border. They'd
Speaker 1: be all these fireworks to say that. We would get
Speaker 1: all these fireworks and be like, but if they're legal
Speaker 1: in Georgia, my parents would be like, you can't sell them,
Speaker 1: but we could shoot them off. I'm like, that makes
Speaker 1: no sense to me, That's absolutely right. I was making
Speaker 1: the same thing with like alcohol cells, you know, within
Speaker 1: the Southern states, like they were very restrictive unto a
Speaker 1: certain point, so people would cross borders to go get alcohol.
Speaker 1: So for the long time, Georgia couldn't sell it on Sundays,
Speaker 1: so people would go to Alabama like that would have
Speaker 1: access to it. Again, this is very like less harmful
Speaker 1: than any of the stuff, but it is also very
Speaker 1: reminiscent of the fact that they are shutting down clinics
Speaker 1: in certain states and so therefore we have to access
Speaker 1: clinics maybe two or three states away. In general, and honestly,
Speaker 1: we've been watching what's happening with Poland as well, as
Speaker 1: they have had one of the harshest restrictions and bands
Speaker 1: um in the world as well. It is fairly new
Speaker 1: and them talking about the fact that they're having to
Speaker 1: do essentially underground networks to get access to pills and
Speaker 1: to any type of reproductive health access by traveling across
Speaker 1: country borderlines in order to get access. And yeah, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what's happening in that level of state wise for
Speaker 1: us that yes, for some of these they're gonna make
Speaker 1: it so difficult that you are you will have to
Speaker 1: plan as if, like you have to be away for
Speaker 1: a week to get a pill um in order to
Speaker 1: get any kind of access, and if you can't afford it, sorry,
Speaker 1: then you're not allowed it. Yeah, And so just like
Speaker 1: what's happening in Poland, we're seeing a bit of that
Speaker 1: here in the United States. So states like California and
Speaker 1: New York states where you can access abortion pills via telemedicine,
Speaker 1: they've taken steps in recent years to further solidify access
Speaker 1: to abortion and they're expect to increase the availability of
Speaker 1: telemedicine for abortion pills, specifically to provide opportunities for folks
Speaker 1: and other states with these kinds of restrictions to obtain
Speaker 1: abortion pills by traveling to their state to get them.
Speaker 1: And so we are seeing this thing where other states
Speaker 1: that allow this are probably going to be stepping up
Speaker 1: so that people specifically so that people who live in
Speaker 1: states that you know they can't access this can get them.
Speaker 1: And so it is it is a little bit like that.
Speaker 1: And you know, even though this is a win, we
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be doing any of this just to
Speaker 1: get abortion care. Like nobody should have to jump through
Speaker 1: ridiculous hoops to get medical care that they need, and
Speaker 1: so this is no different. And so I think of
Speaker 1: this as a win, but I just I have to
Speaker 1: keep harping on that that we shouldn't have to be
Speaker 1: fighting this way and like celebrating these sort of like
Speaker 1: incremental tooth and nail winds for something that like should
Speaker 1: just be a right that everybody should have. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: these pill leased abortions are actually pretty common, right, that's
Speaker 1: and so especially in the pandemic. The tele Abortion Project,
Speaker 1: which is a research program authorized by the FDA to
Speaker 1: conduct tele medicine appointments and male pills, has heard from
Speaker 1: many people and they're saying that they have really seen
Speaker 1: from folks using their services that people are really stepping
Speaker 1: up the amount that they are seeking these kinds of
Speaker 1: services since the pandemic. Elizabeth Raymond. She said that of
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eighties three abortions provided under the
Speaker 1: program between July and October one, more than a third,
Speaker 1: seven and fifteen occurred during the pandemic, and that really
Speaker 1: mirrors what the CDC has found. The CDC found in
Speaker 1: twenty in some states, including Indiana, Kansas, and Minnesota, the
Speaker 1: methodic pill based abortions accounted for the majority of abortions
Speaker 1: according to state Health Department records, and the CDC also
Speaker 1: found that seventy of abortions occurred before the ten weeks
Speaker 1: gestation period, suggesting that there are many, many, many more
Speaker 1: people who would probably choose abortion pills over an in
Speaker 1: clinic procedure if they could. Another great resource, Oftion on Demand,
Speaker 1: which is an online platform that provides position supported medication
Speaker 1: Abortion Care Online, said that they have seen a lot
Speaker 1: of growing interests in pill based abortion since the pandemic
Speaker 1: as well, and so it makes complete sense that at
Speaker 1: a time when it's not safe to leave your house
Speaker 1: that people would be turning to the internet to get
Speaker 1: the kind of care that they need, and even beyond abortion.
Speaker 1: You know, I when the pandemic started, actually very early
Speaker 1: into the pandemic, This is like a little bit embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I had a assist on my butt cheek and my
Speaker 1: doctor had switched to telemedicine only, and I remember thinking like, well,
Speaker 1: certainly she's not gonna want to like have me take
Speaker 1: down my pants and show her my butt cheek over
Speaker 1: you know, FaceTime. And that's exactly what I did, and
Speaker 1: I probably get the care that I needed. And so
Speaker 1: obviously we should not be putting unfair barriers in place
Speaker 1: when I think that the pandemic really showed how important
Speaker 1: it is to use the technology that we have to
Speaker 1: access healthcare right. And I know there are stories you
Speaker 1: can find out. There are people who said, like why
Speaker 1: it was so important to them and why they wanted
Speaker 1: to be in like they're kind of you know, home
Speaker 1: or where they felt comfortable when they did this. Um.
Speaker 1: But also, unfortunately a lot of times going to an
Speaker 1: abortion clinic can also not feel safe because there can
Speaker 1: be people protesting outside and that makes it a much
Speaker 1: more stressful experience and and speaking of I'm sure, um
Speaker 1: not everyone was happy about about this news. Oh, of
Speaker 1: course not so. Anti choice groups were not happy about
Speaker 1: this announcement. The Susan B. Anthony Foundation said, the Biden
Speaker 1: administration today moved to weaken the long standing federal safety
Speaker 1: regulations against mail order abortion drugs, designed to protect women
Speaker 1: from serious health risks and potential abuse. So here's my
Speaker 1: question about this. First of all, how and why would
Speaker 1: someone be abusing these abortion pills. It's not like they like,
Speaker 1: take it from me. They do not get you high,
Speaker 1: the side effects that you might have or like mild nausea.
Speaker 1: I don't really think that people are like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to get these drugs to induce mild nausea.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a wild time. Can't wait to
Speaker 1: abuse them. So already have some questions there, and then
Speaker 1: doctors make it clear that pill based abortions are safe.
Speaker 1: A research program at the FDA found that of the
Speaker 1: one thousand one dred and fifties seven abortions that occurred
Speaker 1: through the program between September, we're completed without requiring any
Speaker 1: follow up procedure, patients made seventy visits to emergency rooms.
Speaker 1: Or urgent care centers with ten instances of serious complications
Speaker 1: to study reported and so that's really like pretty good
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, the safety of this, Like
Speaker 1: doctors have made it very clear that pill based abortions
Speaker 1: are not unsafe and tele medicine abortions are safe for
Speaker 1: all the reasons that you've just said. Any they can
Speaker 1: be more convenient. Maybe you don't want to go to
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic where there's going to be people shouting
Speaker 1: at you when you're already stressed. Uh, maybe you have
Speaker 1: to work, or maybe you can't afford to get to
Speaker 1: a clinic, or like, there are so many reasons why
Speaker 1: someone would choose to you know, access the care they
Speaker 1: need through telemedicine, and it's there's not really a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons why we are regulating it in this way.
Speaker 1: And one thing I also want to point out is
Speaker 1: that this change is obviously, like very long overdue, especially
Speaker 1: when you consider that out of the twenty different prescription
Speaker 1: medications currently regulated by the FDA, these abortion bills are
Speaker 1: the only one. The only one the f d A
Speaker 1: previously required to be dispensed in person but permitted patience
Speaker 1: to self administer, and so that really, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: of all of these medications, this like, why is this
Speaker 1: the only one that had this unfair burden to access?
Speaker 1: This is one of the only medications that are given
Speaker 1: to people with uteruses and those who need reprojective health.
Speaker 1: Like essentially, this is why we know these answers. And
Speaker 1: I find that fascinating because as we're looking for the future,
Speaker 1: and of course, I think part of the reason and
Speaker 1: Anny and I both like as a tendant in celebrating
Speaker 1: because we are in Georgia run by current Governor Brian
Speaker 1: kimp who has absolutely put into place every restriction that
Speaker 1: you can think of when it comes to accessing any
Speaker 1: kind of health care in general. And I say that
Speaker 1: very loudly, as he is threatening to shut down any
Speaker 1: connections with federal assistance when it comes to coverage in
Speaker 1: the state at this point in time. And I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that we are talking about and
Speaker 1: trying to be very loud about is that these groups
Speaker 1: are not focusing on the women. Obviously, it is a
Speaker 1: literal fight about what is moral in their eyes, and
Speaker 1: for a Bible belt area of such as Georgia, it
Speaker 1: is a constant battle trying to see how to combat Uh,
Speaker 1: these really generalized slash false narratives of harming women as
Speaker 1: they're truly trying to save women. What is actually they're
Speaker 1: trying to prevent women to get good access and good
Speaker 1: health care at all. So it's kind of one of
Speaker 1: those moments of like how and I guess honestly, the
Speaker 1: pandemic has shown a lot of light about the fact
Speaker 1: that when it comes to morality and conspiracies, they don't
Speaker 1: care if it's from science, they don't care. That's about
Speaker 1: the truth as we have learned, um, and I find
Speaker 1: it interesting that as we are trying to focus on this, what,
Speaker 1: what are some ways that we can maybe uh advocate
Speaker 1: for ourselves, for people like Annie and I who are
Speaker 1: stuck in Georgia right now, for more access to these things.
Speaker 1: Oh what a good question. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: I just have to honor what you just said, because
Speaker 1: we are at a time where it is scary and
Speaker 1: the threat is real. Anybody who told you like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're not going to overturn row, like you'll be fine,
Speaker 1: like we're not going to go backward, they were incorrect.
Speaker 1: They were telling you something that wasn't true. And I
Speaker 1: I I'm sorry to have to say that, but here's
Speaker 1: here's the reality of where we are, and it's it's
Speaker 1: very real, and it's very scary, and I completely understand
Speaker 1: the urge to be like, well, this is happening. It's inevitable.
Speaker 1: Our rights are going to be rolled back. Women are
Speaker 1: going to die, people are going to die. This is
Speaker 1: going to be bad. Anybody who's feeling that that exhaustion
Speaker 1: and malaise, I'm with you. I get it. All I
Speaker 1: can say is that now is not the time to retreat.
Speaker 1: Now is the time to dig in. And so I
Speaker 1: have to really lift up and amplify all the amazing
Speaker 1: people who are doing the work on the ground of
Speaker 1: protecting abortion access. I want to shout out a few
Speaker 1: people right now, my colleague and Ultra Violet Sonya Spoo,
Speaker 1: who is incredible, um, my friend Renee, who is doing
Speaker 1: a lot of work around abortion storytelling and just like
Speaker 1: helping people understand how many different people are impacted by
Speaker 1: abortion care and need abortions, and like someone that you
Speaker 1: love has had an abortion. And then if you're looking
Speaker 1: like what can I do? Absolutely, now is the time
Speaker 1: to be supporting abortion funds around the country. If you've
Speaker 1: got a local Abortion fund and you or in your
Speaker 1: community throw them some money. If you've got some extra money,
Speaker 1: you can go to Abortion Funds dot org and find out.
Speaker 1: You know, people are doing a lot of organizing of
Speaker 1: making sure that people can still get the access to
Speaker 1: care that they need, So definitely support those folks. Also
Speaker 1: urge your lawmaker to support the Women's Health Protection Act.
Speaker 1: You can go to we Are Ultra Violet dot org
Speaker 1: and find our petition demanding the Women's Health Protection Act
Speaker 1: be past because we need. Now is the time that
Speaker 1: we need to be fighting with all that we've got.
Speaker 1: I know it is scary, I know it is hard.
Speaker 1: I know we've all been through a lot, but now
Speaker 1: is the time to really dig in. And I think, like, like,
Speaker 1: one of the things that really gives me hope in
Speaker 1: this fight are things like abortion care networks, are things
Speaker 1: like this, individuals doing what they can, and so I
Speaker 1: know that we got us are. The government might always
Speaker 1: not always have our back, our lefted officials might not
Speaker 1: always have our back, but we have our own backs,
Speaker 1: and so despight is hard and long, but I know
Speaker 1: I know that we got we got each other, and
Speaker 1: so that's the one thing that really gives me hope,
Speaker 1: so Will said, I think I needed it because yes,
Speaker 1: I've been very stress. I know we all are very
Speaker 1: concerned and worried. But that was a nice a nice
Speaker 1: bow on this our last recording with you, Bridget in
Speaker 1: one and some excellent advice as always hanging there, Yes,
Speaker 1: hanging there. We can do this. We could do this
Speaker 1: low key there. That's that's what I call you, Samantha
Speaker 1: lokey Y. Yes, yes, well, thank you as always a
Speaker 1: Bridget for joining us, um and bringing this topic. It
Speaker 1: is always such a delight to have you have fun.
Speaker 1: You're about to leave for your your weirdo Christmas. Correct,
Speaker 1: that's right. In a matter of hours, I will be
Speaker 1: wearing a fur hat like probably pretty draw in the
Speaker 1: Women the Moon. It's important in this whole conversation. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: have a lovely time. Um. Where can the listeners find you, Well,
Speaker 1: you can find me all over the web. I'm at
Speaker 1: Bridget Marie on Twitter and at Bridget Murray in DC
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Please follow me. I'm trying to get my
Speaker 1: followers out pup please follow, and you can follow me
Speaker 1: on my I Heart Radio podcast. There are no girls
Speaker 1: on the internet where we have all kinds of interesting
Speaker 1: conversations about culture and technology and gender and race and
Speaker 1: the Internet. So please please check it out. Yes, go
Speaker 1: check it out. It is fantastic and as always, if
Speaker 1: you want to contact us, you can or email stuff
Speaker 1: to your mom stuff I hurt me dot com. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or
Speaker 1: Instagram and stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always.
Speaker 1: Startup producer Christina, thank you and thanks you for listening
Speaker 1: Stuff When Never Told You production by Heart Radio Well
Speaker 1: podcast on my Heart Radio is the Day I heardio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite ships. Yeah,