WEBVTT - Sheryl Crow 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.720 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:07.880 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan run Tug, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.119 but enough about me. My guest today has sold over 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:15.240 fifty million albums, one nine Grammys, sung a Bond theme, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.400 and inspired millions with her electrifying vocals, melodic mastery and 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.079 dedication to her craft. Come on, this is the person 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.160 who gave us every day as a winding road. If 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.800 it makes you happy, strong enough, leave in Las Vegas, 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.200 soak up the sun, and of course the immortal. All 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.320 I wanna do any one of those is enough to 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.560 earn my undying love and respect for all lifetime. She's 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.400 the subject of a new documentary on Showtime That's How Today, 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.040 called Cheryl. It explores her incredible journey, which took her 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.920 from teaching music to school kids to sharing the stage 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.720 with Michael Jackson just a few short months before she 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.159 exploded as a musical force in her own right with 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.040 Tuesday Night Music Club. The film documents her battle against 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.680 far too many isms, sexism, ageism, and at times her 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.560 own perfectionism. But it's ultimately a story about finding happiness 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.280 on your own terms. It's a Happinessue sings up in 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:06.880 a new song called Forever, which is included on the 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.720 album that it companies the documentary, Inspired by your two sons. 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.680 It's a tribute to cherishing deep connections and being truly present. 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.120 I'm so happy to welcome Cheryl Crowe. I hope you 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:25.840 enjoy our conversation. I love your documentary so much. I mean, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.840 it's like your music. It's warm, revelatory, compelling, and just 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.760 so unflinchingly authentic and honest. It's so wonderful. I was 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.600 surprised to learn that you actually were a little hesitant 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.360 to do it at first. Why was that, Oh, I think, well, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.120 first and foremost, I'm a really private person. And I 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.480 also didn't want to make a documentary that just felt 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.760 like a recap of awards, and you know, I didn't 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.280 want it to feel like a behind the music or 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.160 something like that, even though I love v H one, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.640 so there's no knock against that, and they actually put 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.320 me on the map, but I just want it to 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.680 feel I wanted to tell the real story, and I 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.480 wanted to actually tell the story of the person behind 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.119 you know, thirty years of living or even longer than that, 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.440 you know. But I was hesitant because I feel like 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.160 most documentaries are made about people after they've died, and 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:18.960 I just thought, oh, I still have a lot of 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:20.800 living to do. But anyway, I gave into it and 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.840 we did it. It was so incredible, And as you mentioned, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.320 this documentary, we'll teach people so much about the person 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.480 behind these songs that we know and love. Did it 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.079 teach you something about yourself? Yeah? I mean, I guess 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:39.000 in in reflecting on all of the life's experiences, I 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.280 really realized that a lot of what I went through 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.000 is what so many women go through, no matter what 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.240 business they're in, particularly when you work in companies that 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.200 are run mostly by men. And and you know, there 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.960 was there's just a lot along the way that I 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.160 think probably a lot of young female artists have experienced. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.440 And there was something kind of liberating about being able 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.560 to tell that story. None of these things I've I 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:08.120 ever talked about openly or publicly, and even talk about 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.960 getting older in my business, which is you know, has 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.040 its own set of challenges. UM, and to talk about 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.240 mental health and UM I learned, you know, I learned 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.240 that ultimately I wound up being the person I started 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.320 out as. UM. I went on a lot of detours 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:26.920 and it took me a while to figure out how 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:32.840 to get back. But um, it was interesting living reliving it. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.920 It was so interesting. And it opened with um clips 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.240 from an interview where the interview calls you driven, which 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.720 to me sounds like a compliment. And I heard that, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.080 I thought, But then reading more about it, seems like 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.640 that was a much more loaded phrase in in the 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:48.960 early to mid nineties. I thought it was an interesting 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.480 way to start the documentary. Yeah, I mean, it still 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.440 is somewhere I can remember when um, I think it 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.840 was Kamala Harris was running for president or maybe Amy Closure, 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.080 and they called her and bitious, She's too She's she's 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.720 too ambitious, and that's a bad thing if you called that. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:07.600 If you say that about a man, you go, yeah, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.120 he's gonna be great, you know. And um, it just 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.480 seems to be sort of a sideways compliment. Um. And 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.600 And certainly when I was asked, I think Steve Croft 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.520 asked me about it, it did hit me kind of funny, like, 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.599 you know, what a horrible thing to be called driven? 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:26.800 I thought it came across to me as a compliment. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.520 I hadn't realized Yeah it was. I mean, this film 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.600 is so wonderful. Anyone listening now who hasn't seen it yet, 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.159 please pause this episode and go listen to it or 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.640 go watch it. It is absolutely amazing. One of the 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.600 most mind blowing moments of this documentary for me was 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.720 when you were hired to go out on the Michael 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.479 Jackson tour relatively soon after arriving in Los Angeles. I mean, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.800 I've known the story, Oh my god, I mean I've 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.400 known the story, but seeing the footage from these shows 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.200 in Tokyo in front of seventy thousand people whatever, it 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.280 was really just put it in perspective. Did did seeing 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.640 that level of fame at that close range and everything 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.120 that comes with it, from the craziness and you know, intrusion, 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.520 to the privilege and the adoration. Did that alter your 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.680 musical goals in any way? Was it like, oh my gosh, 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.760 I maybe I don't want this type of thing, or 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.919 there was it the opposite. Did it Did it inspire 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.800 you to be not to use that word ambitious? Yeah? 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.480 You know what it did? It made me really confused 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.360 because I was I was raised um by too hard 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:33.840 working and really you know, solid Midwestern parents, and I 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.760 was raised um with this idea that if you're a 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.320 good person and you know you do the right thing 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.039 and you work hard, that you know that's that's what 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.240 will serve you in life. And when I got on 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:50.080 that tour and really got a glimpse into what how 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.160 the business works. You know the fact that large corporations 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.880 will buy or back then this was during Paola, that 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.000 they would buy, you know, a million copies of Michael 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:01.920 his record, it would come out at number one. I mean, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.000 they everything was mapped out. I came away from it 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.400 feeling like I'm never going to be able to be 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.640 a big artist because I don't have that machine behind me. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:19.880 And then also, um to witness this incredible artist, whether 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.760 you like Michael or you don't, after what we know 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.440 about him. Um to witness that kind of artistry and 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:33.680 to see massive audiences reacting, um like he was the 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.200 Beatles or whatever. I mean, it just was a huge 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.320 I've never seen anything like it. I've never been out 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.320 of I've barely been out of Missouri. I mean I've 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.520 only been in California for six months. Every single thing 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.560 about that about that tour, the eight months of it 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.400 was was life changing. And when I came home, Um, 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:58.200 I went back to complete um unknown nous, no one 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.480 knew who I was, and I started waiting Tay was again. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.280 It was like I went right back to where I 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:07.080 was before, Like it never happened. Wow, I mean it 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:08.640 must have been fitting in a sense because I think 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.880 I'm right and saying ABC was first record you ever bought? Right, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.760 first record I ever bought was ABC. Yeah. I have 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.440 a lot of threads in my life. Who are some 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.160 of the other artists who sort of set you on 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:27.480 your path? Um? Well, growing up, you know, around well 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.600 as early as I remember, my parents played music in 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.560 the house. They were musicians. Um. I I listened to 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:38.240 a lot of James Taylor and Carol King tapestry. Um, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.640 I listened to a lot of My parents played a 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.560 lot of big band music and a lot of crooners, 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.720 so I knew all that stuff. I grew up watching 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.960 musicals on TV like Oklahoma and My Fair Lady and 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.040 West Side Story. But then as I got older, I 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.480 gravitated to you know, Fleetwood Mac and the Rolling Stones, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:03.800 and um just got really into rock and roll and 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:05.800 started to cut my teeth on that. And then when 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:07.600 I went and saw Bonnie Right as a teenager and 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.920 saw her playing guitar. I was like, okay, wait a minute, 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.160 So you can be a woman and you can play 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:16.360 guitar and you can front a band of dudes. Um, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.960 and that's what I wanted to do. What is the 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.520 transition like going from somebody who who appreciates music and 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.920 loves to listen to it to creating your own and 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.960 writing your own songs. I mean it's someone like me 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:30.920 who loves music with all of his heart and has 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.720 never been able to write a song in his life. 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.440 That's a turning point. That's always fascinating for me. What 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.200 was there a moment for you, like a light bulb 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.880 moment or was it a gradual progression. I didn't have 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.680 a life bold moment. I just had this work ethic 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:47.200 and and also this. I felt like music was a 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:48.920 lifeline for me. I mean, I think a lot of 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.480 kids will find that thing that they formed their identity 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.200 around because being a teenager is hard, you know. I 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.480 can't imagine being a teenager now with social media. But um, 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.800 for me, it was music, Like I knew how to play. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.199 I could play by ear, I could play anything I heard, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.920 sit down at the piano and play TV Wonder and 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.880 Elton John and UM, you know, I just knew that's 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.440 how I I saw myself, and I saw myself getting 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.880 out of my hometown, and um, music was just a 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:22.040 lifeline for me. And that was the very thing that 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.400 I just gravitated to in every way. You know, I 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.720 had no business crashing an audition for Michael Jackson, but 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.240 I just felt like, what do I have to lose, 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:36.040 you know, so, UM, I just kept kept keeping on. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.520 There was something you said recently, I think it was 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.840 on the Bobby Bones podcast about your your writing process 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.439 and creative process, at least for your first few albums, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.160 when I think it was Bill Buttrell suggested that everyone 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.680 played the ttreament that wasn't their primary one, which to 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.200 me is just the coolest thing. I mean, you're a 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.960 classically trained pianist and now you're on bass or something. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.040 I just thought that was such an interesting method. I 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:10.800 wanted to ask you more about that. That way to 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.320 keep a spontaneity in the creative process. Yeah, and I 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.320 really gravitate to that now even and I carry that 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.480 with me and I learned I've learned so much from 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.240 so many people along the way, and that is has 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.920 been a really valuable tool. And it's really the reason 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.440 I wound up playing bass, because I find myself playing 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.280 writing melodies over bass lines, which kept me from just 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.600 playing the same chord progressions because as a piano player, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.040 you know, you get comfortable, you know what sounds good, 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.280 and I would I would think melody and lyric and 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:47.320 just play the route, and then I would try to 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:48.800 have somebody else come in and play the bass part 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.400 and be like, no, that doesn't feel right, so I 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.400 wouldn't be in the bass player right and that that 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.840 was just such a great way to approach record making, 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.760 was by like what can what can I do that 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.920 has have been done before? And um and I still 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.640 try to do that. That is so cool. You're one 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.240 of my my bass playing heroes. I I loved you 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.600 and I've I've really rarely heard of people writing on 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.240 the base. I think that's the coolest thing that you 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.040 use that as as your your muse, your starting point. Yeah, 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.040 it's been really I mean, I have this one guitar. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.040 It's an acoustic guitar. It's this nineteen sixty four country 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.079 and Western that we call the Little money Maker because 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.080 most of the songs that I've made money off of 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.079 have been written on that, but um, starting about the 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.840 Globe sessions, I started writing on base and wrote my 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.080 favorite mistake on base and wrote, I mean there's a 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.080 lot of myself that was written on base, and um, yeah, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:45.880 it's it keeps me from being schlocky, I think. I mean, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.520 speaking of the Little money Maker, I was gonna ask you, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.200 is there an element of I hate to use this word, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.439 but superstition in your songwriting? I mean a certain instrument, 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.720 a certain room, a certain time of day, a certain 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.160 t that you drink before you start. Is there an 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.840 element just to kind of that gets you in in 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.000 the zone, for lack of a better term, for when 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:09.480 you start. It's been a really funny um progression for me. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.120 In the old days, we would never record before like 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.319 you know, six at night. We generally in the old days, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.400 I would walk in and just have like a couple 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.120 of lines for a song, or have a couple of 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.400 ideas or whatever, and we would you know, go out 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.600 and run around New Orleans or wherever we're recording New York. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.040 We come back after dinner, we drink some beer or 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.480 some wine, and you start recording about ten and then 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.280 we'd go to like four in the morning, you know, 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:41.080 it would be crazy. And something in my mind was like, well, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.440 I can't write a great song unless I've had some 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.199 wine and it's like the middle of the night or whatever. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.400 My last few records I've written between school drop off 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.520 and school pick up, and I am so inspired. So 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.120 I don't know. I think. I think once you get 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.560 that that thing out of your head that tells you 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.319 this is the way it's got to be, you can 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.560 write anywhere just by sitting quiet, picking up a base 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.080 or a great instrument, and just seeing what happens. Do 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.840 you find that that the best songs are the ones 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.000 that are most effortless, ones that kind of come with 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.360 the fastest. Yeah, I think the ones that are the 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.400 most anointed are the ones that kind of come out 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.319 of nowhere. And then there are those songs that are 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.200 good songs that you've crafted because you know how to 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.320 craft a song. But I've had a few songs in 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.160 my career that came out of nowhere that weren't even 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.720 typical of how I write um that I feel like 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:43.200 are just the gifts that you are eternally humbled by. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.200 What are some of those or any to come to mind. Yeah, 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.840 I mean Redemption Day is definitely one of those that 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.040 that was the song that um came off the heels 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.359 of my going and playing for the troops in Bosnia 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.640 and I came home because I I split up with 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.520 a relationship that I thought was kind of a forever 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.560 relationship and was going to you know, right from the heart, 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.360 and I just couldn't get anywhere with it. So I 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.280 put my guitar down and opened my computer and suddenly 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.679 I've written seven or eight stanzas, which is not really 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.080 how I write. I don't usually embrace or even adopt 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.240 that Bob Dylan cadence. But it just came out of 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.480 nowhere as if it was it needed to be written, 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.880 and then ultimately Johnny Cash wound up recording it. So 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.480 it just goes to show you that music is just 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:35.640 it's not definable. Inspiration is not definable. Um, it's from 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:42.440 some other cosmic space, you know, It's just it's a gift. Yeah, 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.520 I wanted to ask you about I'm so fascinated by 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.320 the notion of rules in the songwriting because I'm just 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.600 that line between rules and raw creativity, and and you've 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.400 spoken about how you know listening to people like Burt 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.720 back Rack, is it just you know that that's a 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.320 great teacher right there, just listening to stuff. How important 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.920 our rules in the songwriting? Is that the kind of 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.600 thing that you need to know in order to break them. 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.400 It's funny when I went to college, I got my 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.360 degree in classical piano, and you had to take a 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.880 composition class, and they're all these rules, like you can 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:21.040 never use um parallel fists. And now it's all these 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.040 um all these rules that are basically meant to be 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.440 broken if you're truly tapping into art. And I do 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:33.720 feel that way about songwriting, although I think there's something 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.080 really beautiful, and I tell this to young artists all 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.320 the time. One of the greatest things you can ever 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:45.120 do is get in a cover band, because even by osmosis, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:51.520 you you are exposed to what makes music, what makes styles, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.960 what makes a great pop sound great. And for me 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.360 having grown up in cover bands and for me learning 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.600 how to sing like I mean, being in car bands 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.160 and having to sing like Shaka Khan, now you're gonna 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.120 sound like Chrissy Hin. Now you're knowing how to manipulate 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.720 the voice. All those things are really powerful when you 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:13.520 sit down to try to figure out who you are, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.360 and you're able to pull from these influences. Um. I 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.800 I find it to be really helpful. Um. I mean, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.520 I can listen to a bird Back erect song and 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.480 I will ultimately if I sit down and start playing, 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.160 I will write something that's a little bit different than 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.240 if I've just listened to an Eagle song or and 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:40.320 neither one of them less important than the other. That's 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.200 so interesting. I never thought of it that way. Almost 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.080 reverse engineering these, you know, these hits if you're in 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.040 a cover band, to kind of see what what what works? Yeah, 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:49.880 I mean, and it's great, you know, it's great to 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:55.920 know why. Um you know, uh, James Jamerson Baseline can 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:01.280 suddenly make a a song fly out of the radio 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.920 and last for fifty years, you know. And those are 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.360 the things that if you're lucky and ever get one 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:26.639 of those, um, you know, you can retire happy. What 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.040 is your relationship like to music today? Is it is 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.359 it a daily practice like some people do yoga and 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.560 some people jog, or is it something that you do 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.040 only when you feel moved and feel as though you 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.840 know you have something to say? Um? Well, it's it's 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:47.040 been different recently because when the pandemic happened, I had 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.639 so much free time and it was it was beautiful 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.919 free time. I mean, i'd feel a little guilty saying that, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.560 but I didn't have that pole like, oh my gosh, 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.359 everybody else was touring. I should be out there touring. 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.080 Nobody was touring, and to be able to just it 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.360 down and play and have the luxury of getting back 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:10.399 into just loving music, playing other people's songs, and um, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.040 I've gotten more. I just I will more likely go 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.120 sit at the piano or pick up my guitar now 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.720 and just play for the fun of it than I 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.359 have in years. And it feels so great. And my 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.879 kids when I first started doing that and practicing, I 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.679 mean I started actually practice practicing my own material so 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.760 I could do virtual concerts. They're like, what are you doing? 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.800 And I said, well, I'm practicing, and they're like, why 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.040 are you practicing? You already know how to play. And 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.480 I'm like, because practice makes you better, you know, and that, 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.119 and because I love it, and it's the reason that 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.399 I do it is because it's it's the thing I 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.800 left first, and so it's good for them to see 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.600 that as well. Um, but yeah, I do write when 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.440 I'm I'm inspired, but I also write when I'm not inspired, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.679 and sometimes good songs come out of that. Wow. I 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.760 mean that's the craft I guess too, when you can 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.760 sit down and make a song even where there was 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.040 once nothing, You you get up from your desk later 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.520 and there's something right there. Yeah, And that's the great 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.800 motivating factor is that you there's there's always that possibility 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.840 that you'll come out with something that you've never written before, 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.320 and it it makes you feel I think a really 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.600 interesting example of that. I was a huge fan of 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.399 the Beatles Get Back documentary and to see them. I 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.480 think I heard you say that that watching the band 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.800 sit down trying to come up with stuff on the 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.359 spot and really for a lot of it fail. Uh, 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.760 changed your relationship to music in a certain way. I 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.639 think was something that I think walking that just blew 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.760 my mind. I mean, I think, um, well, first and foremost, 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.440 there was so much, so much lore about who they 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.479 were and how they broke up and all that, and 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:57.400 you witnessed these friends, I mean, and and not just friends, 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.960 but like, um, they were like blunkers. I mean they 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:10.680 literally were like discovering and creating music that has been 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.840 the springboard for all of us. And and to witness 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.040 the incredible talent. I mean even when they were jamming 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.320 up those songs that ultimately wound up on the Wide 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.920 album and Abbey Road and Let It Be, Um, just 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:32.800 the incredible musicianship. I was so inspired, um by that 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.560 documentary that I went up watching the third one twice 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:37.440 and then went up going in the studio and writing 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.000 this song called Forever with my buddy Jeff. That is 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:47.639 right from you know, the Yesterday Handbook or the Blackbird 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.920 Handbook of just vulnerability. That song I was going to 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.479 ask you about that, your song Forever. I found it 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.359 difficult to listen to and watch the video without getting 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.520 choked up. I thought it was so truemendously moving, such 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.040 a touching piece of music. I wanted to ask you 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.439 more about that. Obviously, much of your your your sons 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.160 are in there. Um. Then they've never been I've never 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.000 let him be a part of mine social media platform. 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.239 I've always felt like they need to be shielded from 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.040 that because they deserve the right to just be kids 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.879 and not be famous. Um. But that song was was 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:29.880 the result of my fifteen year old to me home 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.399 and talking about this stress that he experiences at school 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.960 and some of his friends experience. And man, kids today 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.680 experience so much more stress than we did. I mean 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.119 we they're worrying about the big stuff, like whether the 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.320 planet is gonna not sustain us. I mean, they're worried 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.200 about things that would never have been in my mind. 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.399 I would be worried about whether I got asked to 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.639 the eighth grade dance. You know that that that was 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.639 the kind of worry we had, and um so that 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.040 that was the impetus for that song and the inspiration 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.639 for it. It's an incredible track. It's on the album 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.159 that's accompanying the documentary. There's a few new songs on it. 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.119 I also love. But this Way Let It Bleed is 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.919 one of my favorite Stones albums ever. Your version of 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.000 Live with Me, Oh it rocks. It's so great. What 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.760 led you to record that track? It's so awesome? Well, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.600 you know, it's we It's in the documentary and it 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.080 was the very first thing I ever got to play 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:30.080