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Speaker 1: Welcome to Crash Course, a podcast about business, political, and

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Speaker 1: social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien. Today's crash Course wine making versus Mother Nature.

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Speaker 1: I'm in one of the world's most spectacular wine regions,

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Speaker 1: the Stellenbosch outside of Cape Town, South Africa, and I'm

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Speaker 1: at one of the area's oldest vineyards, roostin Rita. I'm

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Speaker 1: meeting with the owner, John Engelbrecht. Wine making may seem

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Speaker 1: entirely glamorous, but it's really just another version of farming.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, unpredictable work, and farmers everywhere are wrestling with

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Speaker 1: the onslaught of climate change. Climate change may make some

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Speaker 1: of the world's most fertile wine regions, from the US,

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Speaker 1: South America and Europe to Australia and South Africa inhospitable

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Speaker 1: to grape production. The devastation can come in the form

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Speaker 1: of drought, fires or early frosts that wipe out harvests.

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Speaker 1: Wine grapes require very specific conditions to grow. To hot

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Speaker 1: no growth and the flavor of the grapes, and thus

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Speaker 1: the wine is altered less acidity and more alcohol. Plunging

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Speaker 1: temperatures can freeze most grapes, making them unharvestable. Fires obviously

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Speaker 1: taint grapes you taste the ash. Wine making was a

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Speaker 1: competitive and unpredictable business long before climate changes escalating challenges arrived.

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Speaker 1: Bottling grape wine requires as much art as science. John

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Speaker 1: and Roost and Brita have success and experience on their side.

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Speaker 1: While a long drought in South Africa recently sideswiped many

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Speaker 1: of John's local competitors, his vineyard was spared, robust rainfalls

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Speaker 1: plumped some of his recent harvests. Still, the challenges are apparent,

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Speaker 1: and he's taking await and see approach to decide how

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Speaker 1: he'll respond.

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Speaker 2: Hi John, Hi, good morning.

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Speaker 1: So tell me exactly where we are right now and

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Speaker 1: what we're looking at.

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Speaker 2: A standing at the entrance to the winery, and all

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Speaker 2: the buildings here are basically in a straight line from

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Speaker 2: the oldest one, which was building seventeen eighty to the

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Speaker 2: new winery. We'll be standing in front now, so it's

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Speaker 2: kind of a very concentrated area, and then we surrounded

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Speaker 2: by our vineyards and we go straight up to the

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Speaker 2: mountain where the property ends.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I came here on a rainy day, even on

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Speaker 1: a rainy and cloudy day. It is spectacular around here.

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Speaker 1: There are rolling hills covered in trees and forests. The sky,

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Speaker 1: even gray, is beautiful. There's a nice breeze blowing. But

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Speaker 1: we might get a little bit soaking wet today as

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Speaker 1: we walk around right we could.

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Speaker 2: It's winter and the rain is very good for us now,

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Speaker 2: although I'm more a summer person, and because of the

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Speaker 2: low overcast, we can't see the mountains, but we're totally

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Speaker 2: surrounded by mountains. And then we got both oceans as

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Speaker 2: we look to the west, we got the Indian Ocean

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Speaker 2: and then the Atlantic Ocean where you just came from

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Speaker 2: this morning.

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Speaker 1: And we are in early winter now because we're in

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Speaker 1: South Africa, so you're growing in your harvest season are

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Speaker 1: different than what they are in the US or in

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Speaker 1: Western Europe.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, we bought of the southern Hemisphere, so we've

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Speaker 2: done the twenty twenty three harvests. We finished just off

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Speaker 2: to Easter weekend and now we basically preparing to start

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Speaker 2: pruning again in the winter and when new harvest in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere, which is around about August September, we're

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Speaker 2: just coming out of our winter, so it's quite interesting.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you to give me a

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Speaker 1: tutorial today, and I'd like to set the tutorial around

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Speaker 1: the most important thing on this property, which is grapes

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Speaker 1: and the grapevines. So I thought maybe we could walk

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Speaker 1: into the vineyard and talk about what we see there.

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Speaker 1: Let's do that so our way, Let's go for a walk.

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Speaker 1: This is spectacular. We're walking toward the vineyard right now,

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Speaker 1: and it's set on some gently sloping land and there's

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Speaker 1: these long, spectacular alleyways of vines stretching across this hill

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Speaker 1: right here, and couldn't be more beautiful.

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Speaker 2: The trees and everything is losing its leaves and the

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Speaker 2: color in the garden is all gone, like ranges. So

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Speaker 2: it's the time of the year which says this is

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Speaker 2: the end of the season.

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Speaker 1: Does that always feel sort of poignant to you that time?

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Speaker 2: Again, it's not the prettiest time of the year, but

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Speaker 2: comes spring it's beautiful, and then summer is obviously fantastic.

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Speaker 2: But you need to go through the seasons.

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Speaker 1: Because it's like life far most, isn't it. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: we're looking at vines, wine vines. How deep do they

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Speaker 1: grow into the ground?

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Speaker 2: Here? A healthy vine needs to send its roots as

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Speaker 2: deep as possible. So we have on the mountain slopes

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Speaker 2: here we have a deep red soil with decomposed granite below,

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Speaker 2: which is very good for red varietals. That's how we

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Speaker 2: got to the two varietals that we do, which is

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Speaker 2: cabin and and.

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Speaker 1: Sheers and granted is good because it drains from the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the vine right, Yes, So you need to

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Speaker 1: get the roots down as fast possible because all the

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Speaker 1: nutrients are down there.

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Speaker 2: And when it's these very dry summers that we can

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Speaker 2: get and hot summers, there's enough moisture for the roots

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Speaker 2: to bring up from deep down. If you have roots

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Speaker 2: that's very shallow, that influence as a negative influence on

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Speaker 2: the vine itself. When the root doesn't go down, it

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Speaker 2: mean it's too compact. It that's from driving too much

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Speaker 2: in the vineyards. So we try and limit machinery in

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Speaker 2: the vineyards.

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Speaker 1: The other thing about vines that I find interesting, You

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Speaker 1: can correct me if I'm wrong about this. You want

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Speaker 1: them to fight a little bit for survival, don't You

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Speaker 1: want a vine to sort of prove itself against nature

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Speaker 1: and be a survivor. And some of that will be

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Speaker 1: reflected in the grapes that grow on its branches correct.

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Speaker 2: When the vine is young, that first year that you planted,

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Speaker 2: it's like a baby. You got to really nurture it,

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Speaker 2: and then you don't want it to stress, because if

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Speaker 2: it stresses, then it will struggle through its whole adult life.

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Speaker 2: It's like taking a lamb from a sheep or a

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Speaker 2: car from a cow. If the mother doesn't have enough

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Speaker 2: milk in the beginning, the calf or the lamb never

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Speaker 2: becomes a high quality animal in its adult years, and

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Speaker 2: a vine is no different. At least that first year

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Speaker 2: year and a half, you've really got to look after

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Speaker 2: it like a baby. But from there on, yes, we

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Speaker 2: have very vigorous growth here because of the soils we are,

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Speaker 2: so you want to cement a little bit. You don't

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Speaker 2: want to then give a dessert all the time. There's

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Speaker 2: a fine line of making sure that it fights for itself,

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Speaker 2: because then it creates a grape that is very concentrated,

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Speaker 2: a well formed grape, a final product that comes into

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Speaker 2: the winery if you just help it artificially and you

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Speaker 2: can make it grow and give all the water that

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Speaker 2: it wants. It's like all these health products that they do.

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Speaker 2: You know the two percent milk and stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it looks like it, but it's not real stuff.

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Speaker 1: And this touches on something you and I were talking

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Speaker 1: about earlier, which is your world and your business is

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Speaker 1: about both science and art, and that your own taste

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Speaker 1: and judgments about what makes a good grape and then

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Speaker 1: what to do with that grape once you pluck it

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Speaker 1: from the vine can be very subjective. And that's one

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Speaker 1: of the challenges and unusual features of the life you

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Speaker 1: have here as a vineyard owner.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean you cannot discride science. And later I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you about the replanting programs we have and how

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Speaker 2: science has changed just from when I was a kid

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Speaker 2: to where I'm now and how you adapt it and

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Speaker 2: how you use it. But for a vineyard, you really

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Speaker 2: got to spend time in a vineyard to really just

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Speaker 2: understand that specific property. And any wine maker will tell

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Speaker 2: you that you can't move into a totally new area

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Speaker 2: of property and in the first year you think you're

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Speaker 2: going to know it. I think it takes you at

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Speaker 2: least ten years to understand what that property and that

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Speaker 2: vines give you.

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Speaker 1: Because you have to know your terrouoir, your land. You

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Speaker 1: have to know your temperatures. You have to know your

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Speaker 1: air quality, you have to know what the sun's going

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Speaker 1: to do. You have to know what time of the

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Speaker 1: day is going to be cool and what time of

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Speaker 1: the dad's going to be heart and all those factors

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Speaker 1: vary from property to property, right.

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Speaker 2: So there's guidelines that you have to follow, but they're

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Speaker 2: not the same for every property. And then, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about properties yet I'm not even talking about

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Speaker 2: regents or countries. You've got to understand that soil. You

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Speaker 2: got to understand those vines. So for me, I concentrate

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Speaker 2: on our property. It's too difficult to become an authority

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Speaker 2: on everybody else's property. It's very interesting to learn to

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Speaker 2: see what other people are doing, but you've got to

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Speaker 2: see where it works on your property. So what we

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Speaker 2: want to do here is I want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we can make the best wine that this property

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Speaker 2: can give.

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Speaker 1: And this property has a wonderful history. Tell me how

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Speaker 1: Old rist and Grider is as a location, and then

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Speaker 1: just tell me a little bit about your own family's

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Speaker 1: connection to it.

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Speaker 2: Well. The first title D that hangs in my office

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Speaker 2: of this property is dated twelve of March sixteen ninety four,

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Speaker 2: and then it had many many owners over the years,

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Speaker 2: and my family bought the property in nineteen seventy seven

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Speaker 2: and then we've been here ever since.

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Speaker 1: What inspired it was your father who bought the property

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven, and he was in another profession

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Speaker 1: at the time, right, was sort of an aficionado of wine,

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Speaker 1: but had made his living as a rugby player prior

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 2: Well those days, they didn't get paid much as a

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Speaker 2: rugby player. But he was a great farmer, and like

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Speaker 2: his father and his grandfather, so they were all great farmers.

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Speaker 2: But my dad was the first wine maker in the family,

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Speaker 2: and he wanted to make wine and he wanted to

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Speaker 2: do it at an old historic property.

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Speaker 1: Why why did he want to make wine and why

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Speaker 1: did he want to do it in a place like this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think his love for wine happened when you know,

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Speaker 2: during his rugby playing years, when they traveled and especially

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Speaker 2: in France, he got exposed to the wines of the

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Speaker 2: world playing rugby, and I think that intrigued him and

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Speaker 2: he studied wine making. And then if you and the

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Speaker 2: cape and you want to make wine, making it an

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Speaker 2: historic property is special, I would say that's the number

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Speaker 2: one one on the bucket list.

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Speaker 1: And so you inherited his love of wine. Did you

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Speaker 1: know you were going to go into wine making?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I like the business. I like the vineyard side

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Speaker 2: of things. I like the business side of things. What

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Speaker 2: do you like about it being outside?

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Speaker 1: Even outside in the rain? I think listeners can hear

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Speaker 1: the rain hitting our umbrellas here. But be specific about that.

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Speaker 1: What intrigued you? Did you know when you were twelve

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Speaker 1: that you were going to become a wine maker?

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Speaker 2: I knew I liked the business from high school days,

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Speaker 2: and I knew I wanted to come back to the business.

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Speaker 2: And I think what intrigued me a lot is it's

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Speaker 2: always a challenge. Every year is different. You know, when

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Speaker 2: you grow up, you're scared of doing something that will

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Speaker 2: bore you eventually. And I've been in the business now

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Speaker 2: for a long time, and there's not one day that

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Speaker 2: I said, oh, you know, I want to do something else. Now.

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Speaker 1: You're not bored of it and you're not ready to

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Speaker 1: give it up? No? Why not?

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Speaker 2: Because I get a hell of a lot of satisfaction

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Speaker 2: from it. I think the fact that you constantly measure

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Speaker 2: yourself at an international standard because you have to sell

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Speaker 2: wine in other countries. Everything remains a challenge, but a

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Speaker 2: challenge in a positive way. And I like expanding the business.

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Speaker 2: I like to see what's new, the challenges to always

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Speaker 2: be relevant in terms of what the international palets want

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Speaker 2: without losing your whole DNA without changing it. And the

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Speaker 2: thing about wine, you don't drink the same wine every day,

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Speaker 2: nobody does, nobody should. It's like reading books. The more

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Speaker 2: different books you read, the better for you, and wine

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Speaker 2: is the same. I encourage people to drink different wines,

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Speaker 2: and there's wines that you won't like. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: they're bad, They're just not for your taste. It's like food.

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Speaker 2: But life is too short to try all the good

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Speaker 2: wines out there, so I'm giving it a hour of

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Speaker 2: a go. But ah, I envy you.

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Speaker 1: One of the other little factoids I love about your

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Speaker 1: vineyard is when Nelson Mandela won a Nobel Peace Prize,

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Speaker 1: he requested that wine from this vineyard be served at

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Speaker 1: the celebration.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yes, he was familiar with the property. He did

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Speaker 2: visit my parents a year, and he brought guests. One

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Speaker 2: day for a lunch. He brought the king and Queen

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Speaker 2: of Denmark and they had lunch in our home. And

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Speaker 2: one of the years when he was still president, he

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Speaker 2: awarded as the Export Achievement Award for South African business.

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Speaker 2: So he was familiar with the wine and I think

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Speaker 2: when he was asked to pick a wine to be

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Speaker 2: served at the Nobel Peace Prizelener, he kindly picked one

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Speaker 2: of our wines, which was very nice.

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Speaker 1: So on that happy little note, John, I want to

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Speaker 1: take a break and I want you to walk me

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Speaker 1: to another part of your property. We're going to hear

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor and come right back to our audience.

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Speaker 2: You see that that's the house I'm living now, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to show you what it looks like now.

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Speaker 2: But this looked when we bought when my parents bought

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Speaker 2: the property.

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Speaker 1: All these photos we're act with John Engelbract and we

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Speaker 1: are in a slightly much warmer and much drier part

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Speaker 1: of his spectacular location here at Risdin, Rita. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking about wine making and growing grapes. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you a little bit now about the business.

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Speaker 1: How has wine growing and wine making changed over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of decades that you've been in the business

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Speaker 1: here in South Africa.

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Speaker 2: It's changed a lot. If I can take you through

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Speaker 2: the steps and how we get to the bottle. When

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Speaker 2: you prepare soil or a land to plant, the way

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Speaker 2: that you do preparation now has changed in the last

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Speaker 2: three years tremendously and all these are based on the

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Speaker 2: improvements of science, so soil preparation, rootstock selection, rootstock has

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Speaker 2: improved throughout the entire wine growing world once again also

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Speaker 2: based on science. Then wine making vin management has changed.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of

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Speaker 2: canopy management and leading sun onto the bunches.

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Speaker 1: And when we talk about canopy management, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: leaves technically, right, the leaves on the vine and the

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Speaker 1: canopy is actually the shade that the leaves provide for

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Speaker 1: the grapes so they're protected from the signer. Am I oversimplified?

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Speaker 2: No, you're absolutely absolutely correct. And if I just stand

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Speaker 2: still there for a minute. Is we used to vineyards

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Speaker 2: you would plant normally by the lay of the land.

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Speaker 2: So in order to minimize erosion and the way that

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Speaker 2: your rows go, you want to have longer rows because

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Speaker 2: then you don't have to have short rows with lots

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Speaker 2: of end of road turning with detectors and stuff. So

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Speaker 2: where we are in our area, the roads would normally

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Speaker 2: be a north south direction and you'll have morning sun

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Speaker 2: on the one side of the vine and afternoon sun

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Speaker 2: on the other end of the wine after lunchtime. We

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Speaker 2: on this property as change that completely based on what

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Speaker 2: we could see when we did the experiments. Our rows

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Speaker 2: now go east west, so we have the sun on

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Speaker 2: the top of the row all day. So that influence

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Speaker 2: how we do the canipy management. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: everybody must do that. I'm just saying for us it

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Speaker 2: has worked in a positive way, and.

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Speaker 1: It works in a positive way for you because of

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Speaker 1: the quality and the type of grape you're able to

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Speaker 1: grow under those circumstances, yes.

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Speaker 2: And then ultimately by the wine you make from it.

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Speaker 2: So that's in part of vineyard management. In terms of

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Speaker 2: making wine, technology has improved tremendously in the cellar machinery

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Speaker 2: that works much softer with wines. Barrel maturation is most

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Speaker 2: probably the segment that has improved the most. Are to

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Speaker 2: use wood on wine, not to overwood it, to have

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Speaker 2: just the exact amount of wood on the wine so

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Speaker 2: it integrates well. So the one doesn't overpower the other one.

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Speaker 2: That does. All come with time.

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Speaker 1: And in some cases even stainless steel. The thoughts about

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Speaker 1: you know, aging wine and stainless steel thats versus French

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Speaker 1: oak or other types of wood. There's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of learning over the last few decades about obviously, how

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Speaker 1: the vessel that you ferment your wine in affects its flavor,

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Speaker 1: its body, what you end up putting in the bottle.

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Speaker 2: Right, correct, If I look at twenty years ago, we

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Speaker 2: didn't have that, We didn't have the knowledge, we didn't

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Speaker 2: have that technology that has improved, and you've got to

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Speaker 2: stay on top of all the improvements and all these

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Speaker 2: segments that I've just named. You can't just pick one

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Speaker 2: and say, you know what, we we're only going to

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Speaker 2: do it in the winery. We're only going to have

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Speaker 2: the best technology in the winery, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: focus on wood maturation and how we do it. But

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Speaker 2: you don't do anything in your vineyard management, or you

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Speaker 2: don't select the correct rootstock for your property, or your

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Speaker 2: soil preparation is not done in the most beneficial for us.

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Speaker 2: You have to address all those segments all at the

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Speaker 2: same time, and see what's happening, and then put it together,

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Speaker 2: and then you will only see the result. You won't

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Speaker 2: see the result in doing any one thing.

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Speaker 1: And essentially what you're doing is you're in an elaborate

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Speaker 1: dance with Mother Nature every step of the way.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yes, but she's the lead dancer, and we're.

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Speaker 1: Going to get more into that because she's become the

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Speaker 1: lead dancer for us across the globe in many different ways.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about any insights your father had about the

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Speaker 1: business in ways he wanted to modernize it, or maybe

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Speaker 1: he didn't, and then steps you took to modernize it

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Speaker 1: that maybe he hadn't.

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Speaker 2: I think if you look at my dad's era, he

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Speaker 2: was very much on the forefront of modernizing in his time.

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Speaker 2: The way that he build a new winery with underground

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Speaker 2: areas was at first in South Africa, and when the

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Speaker 2: international community opened up, he was very quick to go overseas.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because he was well traveled throughout his

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Speaker 2: entire life on a personal level, but also when he

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Speaker 2: played rugby all over the world, so he had a

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Speaker 2: lot of connections and they knew a lot of people

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Speaker 2: and European countries. He was also known because of Rugby

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Speaker 2: and he made friends in wine business, so that helped

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Speaker 2: us a lot. When I came on board, I specifically

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Speaker 2: wanted to venture into the North American market, which he

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Speaker 2: didn't do, and because I found previously when I've just

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Speaker 2: visited the US, I think we as a nation and

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Speaker 2: American people as a nation are very similar. We're more informal,

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Speaker 2: we like open spaces, we like to drive where we

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Speaker 2: want to go, we like to eat well. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of points that we as two different nations share

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Speaker 2: and I like that about the Americans. And of course

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Speaker 2: it's people speak English there, which helps a lot. So

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Speaker 2: I wanted to explore that as a market for me

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Speaker 2: to sell wining. And when I started there, I started

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Speaker 2: going there three four times a year to sell wining

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Speaker 2: and it was a long, slow journey. But if you

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Speaker 2: team up with the right importers and you get to

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Speaker 2: know people over time, it takes you a good fifteen

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Speaker 2: years or so, and then it's all been worthwhile. It's

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Speaker 2: a very loyal market and I like just spending time there.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how the South African

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Speaker 1: wine industry has developed in recent years and how it's

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Speaker 1: positioned against some of the other great wine regions of

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Speaker 1: the world right now, obviously you know Western Europe, Western

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Speaker 1: United States, Australia. Now, how do you see South Africa

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Speaker 1: and its wine business fitting into that particular puzzle.

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Speaker 2: I think South Africa has an important role to play

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Speaker 2: in the international wine business because of the wine that

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Speaker 2: we produce. Our wine regions spend quite a large area

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Speaker 2: and they're all different. When we started with a new

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Speaker 2: political dispensation in nineteen ninety four, the world markets for

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Speaker 2: the first time really open up for South African wines.

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Speaker 1: And when you say political dispensation, we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: end of the apartheid era. And during the apartheid era,

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Speaker 1: South Africa had been isolated from the global community in

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Speaker 1: a number of ways, politically, financially, etc. Nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela comes to power and a new era begins

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Speaker 1: here that the country's still wrestling with. But for someone

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Speaker 1: like you and the wine business, new opportunities opened up

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Speaker 1: as South Africa reopened to the world.

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Speaker 2: Right correct, When the wine markets of the world opened

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Speaker 2: up in nineteen ninety four, we had a whole honeymoon

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Speaker 2: period for at least five years where everybody wanted to

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Speaker 2: try South African wines and everybody bought into supporting South

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Speaker 2: African wines and it was really a very positive era

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Speaker 2: for us. But very soon the wine world realized South

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Speaker 2: African wines at that stage has fallen behind what the

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Speaker 2: international audiences were looking for in wine, and that was

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Speaker 2: partly or mainly due to the fact that we have

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Speaker 2: been isolated at that time. We've made wine only for ourselves,

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Speaker 2: for our own shows, So you get a little bit

398
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Speaker 2: of tunnel vision. You think you're doing great wine, but

399
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Speaker 2: you've got nothing internationally to compare it with. What happened

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Speaker 2: then is fortunately there was a whole new generation of

401
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Speaker 2: wine makers that started coming through. They were well traveled,

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Speaker 2: and they kept on traveling and they learned, and we

403
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Speaker 2: actually had a very quick turnaround, you know, eight years

404
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Speaker 2: or so we turned the quality of South African wines around,

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Speaker 2: and then the world realized, but there's actually some good

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Speaker 2: wine coming from South Africa, and we're constantly looking for

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Speaker 2: market share. Europe is traditionally a strong market for South

408
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Speaker 2: African wines. North America came late. South African wine started

409
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Speaker 2: working there late. We started working there in a very

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Speaker 2: early stage, and I enjoy working in North America. I

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Speaker 2: think because the people, the wine lovers in North America

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Speaker 2: view wine in a less formal way than in Europe.

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Speaker 2: And that's the way I grew up with wine is

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Speaker 2: wine is just part of your lifestyle and part of

415
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Speaker 2: what's in your house, and part of your diet, your

416
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Speaker 2: daily diet. If we fast forward to where we are

417
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Speaker 2: on twenty twenty, we as an industry have tremendous challenges

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Speaker 2: in cementing a stronger presence on the international market. It's

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Speaker 2: extremely expensive for South African producers to compete in the

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Speaker 2: international market. As we as an industry, unlike any other

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Speaker 2: industry and any other wine producing country, we don't get

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Speaker 2: any but any government support on competing. If you look

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Speaker 2: at what Australia has done where they linked wine and

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Speaker 2: tourism together and has worked for them in a wonderful way.

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Speaker 2: If you look at what happened in California, they did

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Speaker 2: the same thing. Canada came late to the party compared

427
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Speaker 2: to California, but their wine tourism is actually growing as well. France, Italy, Spain,

428
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Speaker 2: South Americans, they've all been added for much longer than

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Speaker 2: what we have, but they do get governmental support. When

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Speaker 2: you compete overseas. You're not apples with apples. For many producers,

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Speaker 2: it's very, very expensive to do that. I think that

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Speaker 2: is detrimental to us having the footprint that we should

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Speaker 2: be having on the international stage.

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Speaker 1: What percentage of the global wine industry does the South

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Speaker 1: African market account for now?

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Speaker 2: It's very small in terms of production. I think we

437
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: seventh in the world by volume, but I can't tell

438
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 2: you now what percentage of the markets we have right now.

439
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot this morning about the art of

440
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: growing a vine, the part of your business that's really

441
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: about farming. When you look at the business side of

442
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: what you do and what's front of mind for you

443
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: right now, what are the highlights as you look across

444
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: the present landscape of what you're trying to do to

445
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: remain competitive and innovative.

446
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: I think one of the most important foundations we have

447
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: in growing US internationally is the influx of tourism to

448
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: South Africa, especially after the pandemic. We've seen tourist levels

449
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 2: in the last two years that are so past pre

450
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: pandemic levels. Earlier this morning, you and I spoke about

451
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: just the influx of North American tourists and If I

452
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: look at the official numbers that is published by the government,

453
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: the North American tourist numbers is now exceeded Europe or Britain,

454
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 2: the UK in terms of numbers and in terms of spending.

455
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: If you look at the difficulty we have in establishing

456
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: a footprint overseas, but you have the strong numbers of

457
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: overseas tourists coming to South Africa, what is there not

458
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: to like about visiting South Africa. I mean that the

459
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: exchange rate is very much in visitors favors you effectively

460
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: coming to a first world country. People like to know

461
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: that they have connectivity. We do have load shedding at

462
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: the moment.

463
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 1: Load shedding for the uninitiated is basically rolling blackouts that

464
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: South Africa has to engage in because the country's electricity

465
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: supplier can't reliably produce electricity un regular basis across the

466
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: country and so for residents in their home and business

467
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: people like Jean, you have to adapt everything you're doing

468
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: to the reality that every once in a while the

469
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: later are going to go out.

470
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: Fortunately, I think we as a nation has proven in

471
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 2: the past it'd be very resilient when it comes to challenges,

472
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: and I think the next twelve months is still going

473
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: to be difficult, but we will get by this as well.

474
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: If you look at the pace at which private electricity supply,

475
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: I mean, we as a business were only one of many,

476
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: but we as a business have totally gone off the

477
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: grid with solar and battery.

478
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: Powers and your own generators.

479
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: I assume right, yes, yes, we had no other choice.

480
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: We had to do it. But I mean we're moving

481
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: forward on that. We don't want to hang up a

482
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: white flag and say it because of that we can't

483
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: do business. No, we addressed it and we move on.

484
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: So I'm very, very positive about the next couple of

485
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: years lying ahead for us, because I think when you

486
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: look at coming back to the tourist numbers, people were

487
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: not comfortable in visiting South Africa and especially the Cape,

488
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: the tourist numbers would be going down. There's other places

489
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: in the world they can go to. But if I

490
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: speak to tourists that visit us at the winery, they

491
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: enjoy coming here. They like what we have to offer.

492
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: They come to wineries, they come to the Cape for sceneries,

493
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: then they go north for safari and then they go home,

494
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: all in one country and all ad a very good

495
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: value and every one of them that goes back becomes

496
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: an ambassador for our country, our wine, our food, whatever

497
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: we have to offer. So in terms of that, yes,

498
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: I'm positive for the future.

499
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: On that note, we're going to take a slight break again,

500
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: a brief break to hear from one of our sponsors,

501
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: and when we come back, I want to talk to

502
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: Jean about what we refer to earlier as a dance

503
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: with Mother Nature and the new dance move called climate change,

504
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: and how John's adapting to that reality as well. I'm

505
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: back with John Engelbracht, the owner and proprietor of Roost

506
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: and Spectacular Vineyard in South Africa, just north of Cape

507
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: Town in the Stalinbash region. John, one of the things

508
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: that made me reach out to you first is all

509
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: of us are adapting to the current realities of climate change.

510
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: And you're a farmer, you're a businessman, you're an artist,

511
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: and you're dealing on a daily basis with forces you

512
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: can't control, weather being one of the primary factors in

513
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: that mix. And I'd like to know how unpredictable weather

514
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: and warmer weather has affected the grapes you grow and

515
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: how you manage them so they can become young adults

516
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: and be bottled later for people. How is climate change

517
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: affecting how you do business?

518
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 2: I think we've experienced the influence of climate change here

519
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: as well as everybody else has, and it is something

520
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: that gradually happens five years ago where the worst job

521
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: in the Cape, which is unheard of us, and we've

522
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: seen any years our winters were shorter, they started later,

523
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: so the vines doesn't go into a long enough rest bed,

524
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: and then suddenly one year comes by and everything is

525
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: back to normal.

526
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: For example, recently you've had very healthy, robust rains, completely

527
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: opposite of the drought you experienced just several years earlier.

528
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: So it's not always the same playing field, obviously, No.

529
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: It's not. For instance, last year, the main dams in

530
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: our province in the Cape doesn't get filled by rain,

531
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: gets filled by snow that comes from mountains that when

532
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: it melts. So last year we had very very little

533
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: snow and the dams took a long time to fill up.

534
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: Now we're just starting winter and last weekend we had

535
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 2: snow on the highest mountains, which is a very very

536
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: good thing. That's far more normal for me. I am

537
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: very weary of just changing everything because I see that

538
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: in other parts of the world wine growing part people

539
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: are planting vineyards that takes less water. There's even some

540
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: new or relatively unknown varietals that they're planting. I'm not

541
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: there yet because I think for me in my size

542
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: of business, will be kind of very risky to rip

543
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: out varietals that I'm comfortable with that I've been producing

544
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: in order to plant new things, because I need to

545
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: make sure what kind of wine those new varietals are

546
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: going to make. So I am far more careful in

547
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't

548
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: want to do that. And as I say, for us

549
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: in a microcosm here where I'm situated in the mountains

550
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: and stuff, I don't think that the weather patterns that

551
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: we've experienced that is out of the norm has been

552
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: so severe that in other parts of the world. The

553
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: interesting thing is they had in our leading agricultural magazine

554
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: in the country, they had their rainfall numbers for the

555
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: last century, the last hundred years, and if you take

556
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: a look at that, you would see that the droughts

557
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: and the floods they've will been their give and take

558
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: within three four years of each other over a century.

559
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying there's no climate change. I'm just

560
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: saying for where I am, I'm taking a very cautious

561
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: view on just changing everything. Because of that, we traditionally

562
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: year where I'm situated, we don't irrigate a lot because

563
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: if we get a normal rainfall in the winter, which

564
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: touched with ninety nine percent we've had, the soil keeps

565
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: enough moisture for the vines to flourish, and the runoff

566
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: that we have from the mountain at the back here

567
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: that runs into our own dams is enough water to

568
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: supplement any irrigation if it becomes an extremely warm summer.

569
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: But that is a view that I only take on

570
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: my property.

571
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: Do you see other competitors or cor leagues in the

572
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: wine business here having to take on or adopt more

573
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: drastic or novel measures to deal with climate change here?

574
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: Definitely. There are areas in South Africa where people they

575
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: don't have the annual rainfall on their venues like we

576
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 2: have here in Stellemosh, so they have to irrigate and

577
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: they are making far more drastic measures in order to

578
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: curb their water usage, which you can understand because they

579
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: farm or they produce vineyards in dry areas that is

580
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: traditionally being drier.

581
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: One of the other factors when I've spoken to other

582
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: wine makers that has come with climate change is new

583
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: varieties of insects and animals can get into vineyards, and

584
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: wine growers have to adopt to know new predators, so

585
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: to speak, going after their grapes. Have you experienced any

586
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: of that here?

587
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: No?

588
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: No, what about some of your competitors in the region.

589
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: Have they? I think in this area, animals in the

590
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: vineyards is something very rare. I think in other areas.

591
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: I know if you go hour and a half north,

592
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: they have problems. Friends of mine have farm there with

593
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: grapes and stuff they have, But around here in this

594
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: area in Stellomosh, no, I'm not aware of it.

595
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: One of the things you've been explaining to me is

596
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: that you haven't seen enough change in the weather patterns

597
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: in your microcast world here at your vineyard that would

598
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: compel you to change the way you're doing business, because

599
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: you just don't have enough information or experience about this

600
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 1: particular change to do anything drastic that might disrupt what

601
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: you have going on here correct where.

602
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: I am, Yes, I agree with that. So if it

603
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: gets to a point where you have to do something drastic,

604
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: then I think you will have to adapt to that.

605
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: But I haven't seen anything in Yere where I am

606
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: that I need to drastically change the way that we

607
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: do things.

608
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: Will you know when that moment arise? What is the

609
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: benchmark you use to know when you have to change?

610
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think for us, if we start having shorter

611
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: and drier winters year on year on year, then that

612
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: becomes a huge red flag. But if you have two

613
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: or three dry winters or short winters and suddenly it

614
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: returns to being more than normal winter and things are

615
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: back to normal, and for me, the one cancels out

616
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: the other. And by no means I'm saying there's no

617
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: global warming. I'm just saying I must be very careful.

618
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: I'm a small business just to uproot everything because it's

619
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: become fashionable, and then tomorrow I might sit without a

620
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: business because I'm producing a wine that nobody wants and

621
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: everybody said, well, it's stuff like that, You're out of business.

622
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: You know you did the right thing.

623
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: No, you don't grow any white wine grapes on your property.

624
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: You only grow red wine grapes, and specifically cabernet and

625
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: charas grapes, Is that right?

626
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: That's correct. I do produce white wine, but not on

627
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: this property.

628
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: And the cab grape is a hardy grape. It's not

629
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: as Finnic as like a pinot can be. You're a

630
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: hardy man. Do you feel like that cabernet grape is

631
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: a reflection of who you are.

632
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: To I think Cabinet does very well where we are.

633
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: We have a very Mediterranean climate right here, and Cabinet,

634
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 2: what I've learned, always as a market, if people are

635
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: not sure which red wine to drink or which read

636
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: wine to buy, Cabinet comes up. So I wouldn't have

637
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: it if it didn't suit well where I am. But

638
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 2: we've seen this over the last fifty years. It does

639
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: very well.

640
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Yet, you know, in some regions where it's been heating

641
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: up and where cab is still thriving, the heat has

642
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: raised the alcohol content in the grape, the warm around

643
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: the vine, and the acidity goes down and the alcohol

644
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: content and the grape goes up. Have you seen any

645
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: of those kind of changes in the grapes when you

646
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: take them off the vine and begin to ferment them.

647
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: Yes, we have. We've seen that over the last couple

648
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: of years. I wouldn't actually blame it on whether our

649
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: wines alcohol content has become higher than what it was

650
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: then fifteen years ago, But that is more a result

651
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: of how long we let it hang to get it

652
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: totally to ripeness.

653
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: Also, because when the California cabs came out of the market,

654
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: they were very different from Bordeaux in France. They had

655
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: a much higher alcohol content. That sort of changed the

656
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: market too, right, because those wines became popular. Was that

657
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: a factor on moving towards, you know, cabs that had

658
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: higher alcohol content. No.

659
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: I think if you farm in areas where it's traditionally

660
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: warm during the summer, whether it's in California where it's

661
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 2: Australia year, the goal is to make a balance wine.

662
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: The alcohol is just a result of that balance wine.

663
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: So I get very annoyed when people start saying, you know,

664
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: now they text you if your alcohol is high, because

665
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: everybody's on this health living thing and I don't chase

666
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: alcohol levels, but I hate to take alcohol out of

667
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 2: the wine because you alter the DNA of the wine.

668
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: If you look at what Napper has been doing traditionally,

669
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: Napper and even Australia had very high alcohol wines. But

670
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: I think through the years, as soon as they started

671
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: planting out of the river valley or the river bed

672
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: into the hills, you saw the wine change. I mean,

673
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: a Nappa is now making the most beautiful, elegant wines

674
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: that still has relatively high alcohols. But the alcohol doesn't

675
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: characterize a wine other than saying it's an high alcohol.

676
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: People don't taste an high alcohol. They see it on

677
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: the bag label. So then they go, oh, it's a

678
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 2: bit of a high alcohol, and we want only twelve

679
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: and a half said, they don't know the difference. I

680
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: promise you they don't know the difference until you send

681
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: it to a lab. So we traditionally between you know,

682
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: thirteen and a half and fourteen percent alcohol. If you

683
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: look at the wines my dad made, we were twelve

684
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: and a half thirteen. But during that time we harvest

685
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: it mostly like France would harvest. So we harvested at

686
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: a lower sugar content because that's how we had it.

687
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: That's how we were taught, or he was taught. The

688
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: reason France doesn't harvest at a high sugar content because

689
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: they can't get a sky a sugar contin I mean,

690
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: they can do other things to the wine. But we

691
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: have sunlight like Alow fourteenth, like Australia, like South America,

692
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: abundance of sunlight. So we want to find the grape

693
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: to be everything must be in balance. Then in the

694
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: red wine that will lead to a high alcohol, and

695
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: then so be.

696
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: It on crash course. We always like to ask people

697
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: what they've learned along their particular journeys. And you've been

698
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: in your business now, running this particular business for more

699
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: than two decades. What do you know now that you

700
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: didn't know when you first dove into this world? What

701
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: have you learned along the way?

702
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, I stick to my dad

703
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: always said, don't make a wine, we don't drink ourselves,

704
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: because how do you sell that. Maybe it was said

705
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: with a bit of a tongue in the cheek, but

706
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: I think it's been a valuable lesson for me. I've

707
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: learned that I want not to change the wine making world,

708
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: because I think that's maybe being a little bit out

709
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: of touch. When you start out, you say I want

710
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: to make the best wine in the world. No, that

711
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: ain't going to happen because it's all so different. What

712
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 2: I can say is my goal has been and will

713
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: always remain to make the best wine that we can

714
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: make on this property, and if I can succeed in that,

715
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: then I'll be happy. But there's no such thing as

716
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: a winery saying I want to make the best wine

717
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: in the world. That's being totally aloof I think. I

718
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: think today, if you start a winery and you're just

719
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: an individual, I'm not talking about being a big corporate

720
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: or you're somebody that made your money somewhere else. And

721
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: because for some reason, all over the world, people who

722
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: have become very wealthy they want to have a winery.

723
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: There's something about it that intrigues them. And I think

724
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: it's the fact that they cannot control it, because I've

725
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: seen that, and it annoys them because they have been

726
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: extremely successful in their sphere of businesses where they controlled

727
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of everything every day. Now they come

728
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: into a winery where Mother Natures is this is how

729
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: we're going to do it, and for the first time

730
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: in their life there's something that they can control.

731
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: And you're not somebody who lies awake at night thinking

732
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: about the things you can't control, not at all.

733
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: Why is that? I think it's because just the way

734
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: that I've been brought up, when you work as a

735
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: farmer and you work with the vineyards on a daily basis,

736
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: and you work with nature, you get up and you

737
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: deal the best to your ability with the gods that

738
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: has been given to you on that certain day, because

739
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 2: you can do all the planning and everything, but if

740
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: nature has other plans, you have to adapt to that.

741
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: And so I cannot influence a drought. I cannot influence

742
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: a flood. I cannot influence something that's totally out of

743
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: our control or human control. I just need to address

744
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: the issue when it's there to the best of our abilities,

745
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 2: and that's what I'm trying to do. So therefore, I

746
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: don't lose sleep over it.

747
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: John, I feel like we should go somewhere and drink

748
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: some wine. Now you've made me thirsty, and of course

749
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: you've made me intrigued. I really appreciate you spending time

750
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: with our listeners today.

751
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure to them, and it was nice

752
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: meeting you and receiving you here. And I hope it's

753
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: not your last visit, not only to South Africa, but

754
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: Dafity to the Cape.

755
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: The next time I'll come without a microphone so I

756
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: can just sit and enjoy your company more. Thank you,

757
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: my friend. Here at Crash Course, we believe the collisions

758
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, and always instructive. In

759
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: today's Crash Course, I learned that if you want to

760
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: be a content and happy winemaker, don't go to bed

761
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: at night worried about the things you can't control. What

762
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: did you learn? We'd love to hear from you. You

763
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion or

764
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course.

765
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening

766
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: right now and leave us a review. It helps more

767
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: people find the show. This episode was produced by the

768
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: indispensable Amasaracus Moses On, Dom and Me. Supervising producer is

769
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson, and we had editing help from Sage Bauman,

770
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: Katie Boyce, Jeff Crocott, Mike Nitze and Christine Vanden Bilert.

771
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: Blake Maples does our sound engineering and our original theme

772
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: song was composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll

773
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: be back next week with another crash course,