WEBVTT - Race Swap Card | EP 7 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.760 Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.560 your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.520 season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.879 the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.320 stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.320 want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.840 Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.279 Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of, 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.240 and a few you didn't like former A and TM 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:32.080 judge Janis Dickinson. Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.159 of the long running TV series through the untold stories 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.519 of former contestants, and shows what happens when a golden 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.640 opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.560 shattered dreams, and resilience. You can find the two part 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.919 docuseries Dirty Rotten Scandals America's Next Top Model on E Network. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.240 Check your local TV provider schedule. This week, we've learned. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.320 All about makeup and the power that it has to 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.840 transform people. Today we are doing this shoot for Got Milk. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.319 There are a lot of moments from America's Next Top 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.959 Model that haven't aged well. We've been revisiting them all season, 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.720 but for a lot of people, there's one that towers 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.480 above the rest. Now there's a twist. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.800 We are actually going to switch your ethnicities. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.399 Even diehard antm apologist can't deny the cringiness of this 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:29.120 photo shoot. 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.959 Christina, you're going to be an East Indian. Tiffany, you're 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.440 gonna be Native American. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.240 Of course, I'm talking about the race swapping photo shoot. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.560 Believe it or not. A and TM actually did a 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.640 version of this photo shoot twice. The first time was 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.760 on cycle four. They assigned each of the contestants to 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.200 portray a race that was not their own. Brittany Brower, 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.680 a white girl from Tallahassee, was straight up put in blackface. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:05.520 Brittany an African American woman, Kenya Korean, Michelle an Eskimo woman. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.560 Yikes. Now you're most. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:13.120 Gonna be an Icelandic Scandinavian, Tatiana a biracial woman, UV 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:19.919 Swedish milkmaid. Wow, Becca really dark tanned Italian Sicilian woman. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.120 And Noel, we're making you into a traditionally African woman 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:25.400 with a head wrap and everything. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:25.880 Wow. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.640 Everybody else got a country or ethnicity. Noel had to 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:34.760 represent a whole. Confident they didn't just change their skin color. 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.720 The models got a makeover, complete with costumes and wigs. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.160 It was as stereotypical as you can imagine. They gave Tiffany, 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.120 a black woman, a long black wig with two braids 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.160 on the side because she was portraying a Native American woman. Christina, 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.120 a white model, got a straight wig with a dupata 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:58.200 or headscarf because she was supposed to be East Indian. Brittany, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.280 the one who was in blackface, a huge afro wig 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.440 because she was portraying an African American woman. Here's Brittany 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.000 when she finally saw her completed look in the mirror. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.040 A black girl with a Nosehall, come on, you're rejection. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.360 People refer to this as the black face photoshoot. For 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.680 the two models who were supposed to be black, the 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.320 makeup artists actually painted their entire faces with the dark 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.600 brown makeup, but it didn't end there. This is something 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.160 for everyone to be offended by in this photo shoot. Kenya, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.200 who's black, was supposed to be Korean for the shoot, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.520 so she was given lighter skin Naima, who's multiracial, was 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.920 portraying an Icelandic woman, so they gave her makeup to 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.600 make her pale as if there are no multiracial people 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:48.000 in Iceland. This is shocking to us today, But if 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.280 you watched it play out live, I want you to 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.360 think back to how it made you feel in two 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.800 thousand and five, if you were truly offended, or if 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.680 your outrage is revision is history. Several of the models 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.480 who can on that season say at the time they 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.200 didn't see anything wrong with the race. Wopping. Here's Tiffany 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.920 and Kenya talking about it in an interview with Nightline. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:10.960 I didn't think too much of it at the time. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:12.920 It was fun. 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.680 Do you feel like the people watching it now they 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.200 have a much different reaction than the folks who were 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:20.719 watching it at the time. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.280 Do you chalk some of it up to the popularity. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.400 Of the show, the things that they were able to 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.320 get away with on television, to the fact that we 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:30.880 were just living in a different time. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.440 Then yeah, I do. Yeah, just live in a different time. 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.400 Maybe they didn't think too much of it back then, 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.440 but these days they've had to think about it a lot. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.400 I really wanted to talk to Britney Brower, the white 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.000 girl who was put in black face. Here's what she 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.560 remembers from that photo shoot. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.120 They wanted to give us all different ethnicities and give 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.560 me blackface and make me an African American woman and 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:58.240 not clearly did not age very well. But I'll be 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.000 very very honest at the time of thought anything of it. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:02.839 I hope that doesn't sound wrong. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:04.320 It was just fun. You know. 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.279 You got to think the host of our show is 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.200 Tyra Banks, and mister and missus Jay are right there 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.920 as well. It never crossed my brain at all. If 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:15.480 Tyers want me to do something that it would ever 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.719 ever end up being, like, you know, anything offensive, then. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.560 She must not know about Tarra Banks. To this day, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.960 if you google Britney's name, that image pops up. Did 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:28.400 it work out for the long run? 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.960 I have felt more than uncomfortable with it, obviously. I 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.119 don't mean offending anybody like twenty years later of something 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:38.640 I did when I was twenty two years old and 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.400 I'm forty two years old now, you know. 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.159 But there was one contestant I talked to who said, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.080 at the time the whole thing felt off to her, 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.039 and that was Uvi Gomez. 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.919 I knew it was wrong, Like I absolutely knew it 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.799 was wrong, and I was trying to talk the girls 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.200 into all of us saying we didn't want to do it. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.880 But like Brittany, most of them thought Tyra KNWBST. 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.920 They didn't want to say not to do it, so 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.280 they're like, well, if Tyra wrote off on it, then 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:15.279 it's fine. I'm like, oh, you know, I knew the 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:20.440 fallout was going to happen, you know, and it Ensure died. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.440 Twenty years later, still people are talking about it. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.240 People are talking about it now, but when it aired, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.720 there wasn't a lot of concern. In fact, Brittany told 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.640 me after she was eliminated, she did an interview tour 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.160 and the black face photoshoot never came up. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.919 I had the interviews all day long with every kind 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.760 of radio show, talk show, television show. The day after 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.359 my elimination. I never got one question about it, not one, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.520 not one. I mean that's just how it was then. 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.560 Nothing Nothing was ever said about it back then. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:57.960 I'm not defending it. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.520 I'm just telling you nobody ever said anything. 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.880 Blackface is a specific practice that has racist origins. It's 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.440 based on ugly stereotypes. It was created to mock and 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:15.320 degrade black people. I know, anything even reminiscent of blackface 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.200 feels offensive. And I'm not trying to defend this incredibly 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.720 insensitive photoshoot, but I don't think it was A and 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.400 TM's goal to mock and degrade black people. For me, 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.320 the worst part of this photo shoot wasn't the wigs 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.760 or even the makeup. It was when Jay Manuel said this, the. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.360 Challenge here really is taking on the persona of that 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.440 other ethnicity while in the photograph and owning it. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.960 It wasn't just about how they looked. Mister Jay wanted 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.760 them to act their racial parts, whatever that means. And 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.360 I think that desire for contestants to embody a racial 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.040 stereotype didn't just happen in the race wiping challenge. It 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.680 played out on every season of the show. Want to 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:15.640 Beyond Some, want to Beyond Some. Welcome to the Curse 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:22.120 of America's next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armshan. No matter 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.240 what A and TM intended, the race swapping photoshoot was 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.880 based on stereotypes and narrow ideas about race. They had 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.520 the nerve to do a version of this again years later, 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.880 but those were just two photoshoots. From season one all 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.920 the way to the end, America's Next Top Model always 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.880 prioritize racial and ethnic diversity. They depicted beauty across racial lines, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.640 but the way contestants were cast and edited often played 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:52.600 into racial stereotypes. The early two thousands was a different 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.240 time when it came to race and representation. That's why 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.600 I can give A and TM's race swapping challenge some grace. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.040 But even for the times, A and TM's use of 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.760 racial tropes stands out, and they continued until the show 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.960 ended in twenty eighteen, which is hard to reconcile with 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.240 the fact that A and TM was created by a 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.120 black woman and an Asian man, Tyra Banks and Ken Mock. 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.840 Plus the head casting director was a black woman and 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.880 the j's were queer men of color. So how did 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:26.840 A and TM's episodes end up looking so racist? Maybe 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.040 it's because racial stereotypes are low hanging fruit, or maybe 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.400 it's because they're a tried and true moneymaker. So on 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.320 this episode, we're going to talk about identity on A 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.719 and TM. We'll explore the stereotypes and tropes we saw 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.679 across seasons and talk about the models who say they 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.880 were harmed by their edit once they left the house. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.719 If there's anything about A and TM Tyra Banks is 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.400 most proud of today, it's the show's diversity. She talks 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.120 about it all the time. She even brought it up 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.520 in twenty twenty five when she was accepting an award 0:09:59.520 --> 0:09:59.960 from Essen. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.480 Over twenty years ago, I created a television show called America's. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:11.280 Next Top Model, and I fought, and you guys have 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:16.040 no idea how hard we fought to bring the diversity 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.160 to that television show at a time where it didn't. 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:23.840 Exist, to show different beauties at a time when the 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:24.800 world was like what. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.599 You cast in that? And what and what is that? 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.120 That might be the narrative she's trying to push, but 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.320 you know they were just trying to create a great show. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.040 That's Barez Hilton. You heard him on the second episode. 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.480 He was a gossip blogger in the early two thousands 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.160 and a guest judge on A and TM. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:47.319 Top Model really was a pioneer in terms of diversity. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.720 I do give her credit for that diversity in color, 0:10:51.040 --> 0:11:01.240 in socioeconomic background, in trans representation, queer representation. But while 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.600 that was a factor that wasn't an important one. 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.280 Perez doesn't think Tyra was a champion of diversity like 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.000 she said she was, or that A and TM had 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.920 this diverse cast because she wanted to change the world. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.320 He thinks they prioritize diversity because it makes great TV. 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.360 At first, when Perez said this in our interview, I 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.680 didn't agree with him. I thought he was a white 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.640 guy who just didn't get it. But now, after six 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.760 months of reporting, I gotta admit Perez might be onto something. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.320 I do believe Tyra when she said she created A 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.600 ANDTM to challenge traditional notions around beauty. I think she 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.360 wanted the audience to see that women of all shapes 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.560 and colors are beautiful. But I also think it was 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.000 more than that. Bringing together strangers from completely different backgrounds 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.319 and walks of life, throwing them into a house and 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.559 seeing what happens is a proven formula. The reality showed 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.480 the real world pretty much invented and perfected it in 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.680 the nineties. A and TM just took that model and 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.439 will applied it to models because it works. Remember the 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.000 drama on Cycle one between Christian Robin and Atheis Elise. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.320 How many times did we see A and TM put 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.760 small town sheltered contestants in a house with loose, big 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.080 city girls, or rich contestants with contestants who grew up 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.960 in trailer parks, or girls from the hood clashing with 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.559 girls from the suburbs. I'm convinced A and TM did 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.560 the British Invasion season just to see the cultural clash 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.960 between the UK and American models. Last episode, we talked 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.960 about the way A and TM created characters and why 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.320 it resonates with audiences. Characters in reality TV help us 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.360 put the cast into categories, and that in turn helps 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.280 us understand the story better. It works best when the 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.880 characters aligned with tropes we already know. Most of us 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.040 have an idea of the girl next door, or the 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.080 quiet wallflower or the pageant queen. Those are common tropes 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.920 we see on television. Picking up on a contestant's personality 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.480 and then casting and editing them to align with the 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:13.160 character trope isn't wrong. The problem is audiences are also 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.840 looking for characters that align with preconceived racial biases and tropes. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.840 Bethany Butler is a freelance journalist who writes about race 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:22.760 and reality TV. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.720 There's an understanding from the very beginning of reality TV 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.640 that like, you need to have these archetypes in these 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:35.040 characters and oftentimes the stereotypes, the biases we have in 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.960 our country. In many ways, it's such a microcosm of 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.320 how we are in real life. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.040 And A ANDTM was more than happy to give the 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.719 audience what they were expecting for all of its diversity. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.400 There were less than twenty five Asian contestants in A 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.079 and TM history, but the few Asian American models who 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.800 were on the show faced microaggressions and storylines and edits 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.600 that were based on racial stereotypes. They were fetishized, like 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.120 Sina Sakai from Cycle eleven. The edit made it seem 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.560 like all she wanted to talk about was sex. She 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.040 was a go go dancer, something the show focused on 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.880 a lot, but she was also a stunt woman and 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.240 we never heard about that on the show. Aside from that, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.800 Asian models were typecast and edited its model minorities or 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:25.320 perpetual foreigners. Gina Cho from Cycle six is Korean American. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.360 On the semi finals audition episode, her ethnicity was the 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.320 main focus of her conversation with the judges, So why 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:32.480 do you. 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:33.720 Want to be America's sex top model. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.160 I think that there's just not enough Asian models out there. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.760 I feel that I can break down that barrier, and 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.120 I think it's her responsibility. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.320 You say that you're you're not the girl next door, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:43.880 you're wild. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.480 What do you mean that If you're to ask me 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.600 to get down ship naked, I will do it. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:49.960 That's just how I am. Well, the thing is, like, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:51.000 my parents kind of. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:52.800 Have a thing with that, So I mean, I don't 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.720 know if I would go against my parents or I 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.840 mean I kind of believe more in the American culture 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.800 more than my parents. Oh, I'm not into Asian guys. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.640 Why the thing is are a lot shorter than I am, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.440 which is something that I can't tolerate. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.560 You've come so full circle from your initial statement, But. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.800 Do you understand how you were a contradiction hers You 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.520 were saying, I'm Asian, I'm strong, I'm Korean, and then 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.600 you're saying it's through Korean boys and. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:18.200 I want a white boy. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.600 I don't know what exactly happened, but I got confused 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.360 and I started contradicting myself. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.240 Gina's right when she said there aren't a lot of 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.160 Asian models, but her personal feelings about identity and dating 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.560 have nothing to do with that fact. But Gina's comments 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.760 about her race are exactly what captured the judge's attention. 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.600 Gina was ultimately chosen to go into the house, and 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.120 I think that's because they wanted to explore an Asian 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.600 identity crisis storyline. Her questions about her identity and lack 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.480 of confidence were central to her edit. There was a 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.040 press conference challenge later that episode where Janis asked Gina 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.000 about her identity again. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.440 Gina, how does being an Asian woman fat you're into 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.400 your determination to win this competition? 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:03.560 I guess I don't know. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.040 I just I don't know. I don't know I answer that question. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.920 So, Ginaman, when you met us during casting week, that 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:12.360 was the first thing you mentioned. 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.160 So why do you want to be America sex top model? 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.640 There's just not enough Asian models out there. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.040 Why in a room with all these reporters, why would 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.680 you not take this opportunity to put it in the forefront. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.160 I'm just I'm twenty one years old and I don't 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.240 know who I really am yet. I'm kind of like struggling. 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:28.640 I'm like having an identity crisis. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.120 Share Gina's parents immigrated from Korea. A lot of first 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.960 generation Americans have talked about the push and pool between 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.120 their parents' culture and their American upbringing. It's a lot 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.560 to navigate, especially on a reality show that keeps bringing 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.640 it up. My issue is that ANTM casts so few 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.240 Asian American models, and when they finally did, they chose 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.600 a girl who was clearly struggling with her identity. Then 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.120 they made that struggle her storyline, which reinforces stereotypes and 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.680 distracts from the whole purpose of our on the show, 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.120 which was supposed to be modeling, but Gina didn't even 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.600 get it the worst. April Wildner was a contestant on 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.159 cycle two. April is biracial, Japanese and white. One of 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.639 the first photoshoots of the season was a take on 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.040 the Garden of Eden. Each model was supposed to portray 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.439 a different eve. They wore body paint, headdresses, and little elks. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.560 They painted one model purple and gave her a crown 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.120 and wings like a cherub. Another model they painted all 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.040 silver and gave her a chain mail head covering like 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.880 a sexy medieval eve. It's hard to understand what they 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.560 were going for there. But with April, they were very clear. 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.160 April was supposed to be Asian Eve, and despite being 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.440 half Japanese, they painted a giant Chinese dragon on her 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.080 and adorned her head with little lanterns, another Chinese symbol. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:01.800 April Asian Eve was gorgeous, fantastic, I face this fantastic. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.320 My goodness me, that's exactly what I'm looking for. H 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:11.080 Sometimes Nigel just gives me the creeps. April did very 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.080 well in the competition. She was constantly praised by the 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.400 judges for hitting the mark during her photoshoots, and April 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.439 took the judges it vice seriously. But she was also 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:25.840 consistently criticized for lacking personality. They said she was too analytical, 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.000 too mechanical, and too perfect. 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.040 There was absolutely no personality and didn't make me like 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.800 you and say, oh, I want to be like April. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:39.000 To April, We're not sure if you want this because 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.920 you want to be a top model and you want 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.479 to be in this fashion industry, or is it that 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.800 you just want to win for the sake of winning. April, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.120 I still feel like you're very analytical, but I want 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.280 to see the sensitive and beautiful side of you too. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.520 But The problem for me with April is that you 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.240 know she's clinical. She's like a technician. I want to 0:18:59.280 --> 0:18:59.920 see some more sec. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.560 I would love to see a more romantic side of her. 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:03.119 April. 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.160 This is the strongest picture of the bunch. But when 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.320 you talk and how you move in your hands so 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.359 like this, it's not a likable, warm person. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.439 Again, you believe after all that they kept going April, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:17.920 you are so technical. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.439 But if you want a model and just relax and exhale, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.440 how you look like, you know, you need to go 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:24.280 to the emergency room. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:28.080 Needed more soul. It was almost too clinical. America's Next 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.280 Top Model was a competition reality show. Every contestant was 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.679 trying to be perfect. Everyone was analyzing the challenges and 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.040 the feedback from the judges. But with April, they made 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.840 that her storyline. April was so good at the competition, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.199 the judges said she was too perfect to them. The 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.680 fact that she was good at everything made her unrelatable, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.399 and that plays into model minority tropes. April made it 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.160 to the top four in her season. When she was eliminated, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:58.280 Here's what Tyra. 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.000 Said, April pictures, we feel like you post better than 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.840 all the girls here, but modeling isn't about being mechanical, 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.520 It's about emotionally connecting with the camera. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.960 Per se these congratulations. When her name wasn't called, April 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:18.080 broke down crying. I think they eliminated her just to 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:24.240 get that emotional reaction. Tyra said she wanted A and 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.600 TM to show the audience that women from different ethnic 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.840 backgrounds can be top models, but the editing and typecasting 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.160 of April reinforced the opposite. There's an ugly belief about 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.840 East Asian people that while they may be smart and 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:44.720 high achieving, they lack creativity and charisma. April's storyline told 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.919 the audience that an Asian model can be beautiful and 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.040 even better than her competitors, but there will always be 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:57.840 something inherently missing, which just isn't true. Jaslene Gonzalez, who 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.240 you heard from a few episodes ago Puerto Rican, She 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.760 grew up in Chicago. On Cycle eight, Jaslene was framed 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.679 as a cha cha diva, a moniker she still proudly 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.680 uses to this day. Here's Jazleene recalling her antm audition. 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.840 I said, my name, my heights, and where I'm from, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.200 like the most cha cha diva ever. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.640 It's one thing to showcase the contestants love for their culture. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.840 It's another thing to make them a caricature. When Jaslene 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:30.120 originally auditioned on cycle seven, she came in the room 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.960 already turned up. She had a big personality. She was 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.919 salsa dancing. ANTM played salsa music during her scene, but 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.879 when she came back from cycle eight, her entrance was 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:46.240 a lot more muted. Jaslene was still proudly Latina, but 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.000 she wasn't embodying the spicy Latina character ANTM wanted her 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.880 to be. There was a photoshoot where jay Manuel basically said. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.320 That I need you to bring me that Latina fire. 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.760 I don't know if Jazleene felt pressure to fit a 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.280 certain character or if the producers told her to really 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:06.600 lean into her Puerto Rican heritage, but when I talked 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.640 to her, she certainly didn't seem like a spicy Latina. 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.840 She's actually really soft spoken. That's the thing about tropes. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:20.800 Real people don't neatly fit into a stereotype. Jasleene is 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.280 often called the first and only Latina winner of America's 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.240 Next Top Model, but she's not. Yauanna House, the winner 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.640 of cycle two, is half Mexican and I don't think 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.679 it's something she's trying to hide. She mentioned her mother's 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.879 heritage in her interview with me unprompted, but unlike Jaslene, 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.919 Yawana's edit didn't revolve around being Latina. It was barely 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.080 mentioned on the show, and I think it's because Yuana 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:49.960 doesn't fit the stereotypical image of a Latina woman. She 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.720 has pale skin and green eyes. But that gets into 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.600