1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: In your infinite wisdom for a really smart guy. You 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: moved to Memphis knowing nobody, not one person. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: I came totally just selling out of an empty cart, 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: knocking on doors. So I came to start something that 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: was going to be called Church Health Center, have a 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: cross senence logo led by a Methodist minister me. I 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: needed money to get our doors open because it's a 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: true charity. And you're a doctor, and I'm a doctor. 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: But I went to the most obvious place for funding churches, 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: a Jewish family Foundation. 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: inner city Memphis. And that last part it unintentionally led 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: to an oscar for the film about our team. It's 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: sukes using big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: but rather an army of normal folks us just you 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: and me deciding hey, I can help. That's where doctor 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: Scott Morris the voice we just heard is done. Scott 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: is the founder of Church Health, the largest faith based, 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: privately funded health clinic in the entire US, serving over 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: eighty thousand uninsured and underinsured patients in Memphis alone. I 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: cannot wait for you to meet Scott right after these 26 00:01:43,880 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: brief messages from our generous sponsors. Welcome everybody. Today is 27 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: a is a great day for me because I get 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: to interview someone who I consider a friend, and I'm 29 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'm fortunate that he allows me to be 30 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: his friend. He is a guy that has changed lives 31 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: very dramatically and continues to change lives, and whose story 32 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: should be emulated in every urban city in the United States. 33 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: In my opinion, doctor Scott Morris started to think called 34 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: the Church Health Center, and now I think it's just 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: called Church Health. But we'll get to all of that 36 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: after we kind of explore how even got here in 37 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: the first place. So I don't know if I should 38 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: say Scott or doctor Morris, what do you want me 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: to say? 40 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: We'll go with Scott. 41 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: Scott, thanks for joining me, glad to be here. Tell 42 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: everybody where you grew up, how you grew up, mom, dad, siblings, 43 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: I don't even know the answers to these questions. So 44 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: where you grew up, how you grew up, and kind 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: of the ethos of the world you came from as 46 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: a kid. 47 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: I grew up in Atlanta. My father was a business person. 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: My mother ran the house and sort of created a 49 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: way for me to think about the world. But I 50 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: went to a private school in Atlanta that, in retrospect 51 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: changed me in a lot of ways. So well, I 52 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: had gone to a public school up until the eighth grade, 53 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: and my parents put a gun to my head and 54 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: told me I was going to the private school, which 55 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: is the last thing I wanted to do. 56 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: Really, you wanted to stay in public school. 57 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: I did because that's where my friends were. 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: Yea. 59 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: But going to the private school, I mean I was challenged. 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: I was not the smartest person in the class as 61 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: I had been before. I was with some people who 62 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: are really really smart, and I loved that. But also 63 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: being there, I saw myself as an athlete. I played 64 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: three sports. I was particularly good at baseball, I think, 65 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: But what three sports? Football, basketball, and baseball? Back in right, Yeah, 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: People like telling a story that when I was in 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: the ninth grade, I pitched a no hitter against Georgia Tech. 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: So how is that possible? 69 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: Because my high school had an ability to play Georgia 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: Tech in the spring, it was probably. 71 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Are you serious? 72 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm serious. 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: In high school you pitched a no hitter against a. 74 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: College at ninth grade, not just in high school, ninth grade. Wow, 75 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: if threw a lot of curve balls. They hit a 76 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: lot of a lot of balls to the to the fence, 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: but we caught them. 78 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: So no kids, that's a cool story. I never knew that. Wow. Okay, 79 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: so siblings, no only child? Only child? Yeah, yeah, well 80 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: you know I'm an only child too, but my only 81 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: childness is probably way different than your only child. Nows. 82 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: So you graduate from what's the name of the high school? 83 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: Westminster? 84 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: Westminster? So you graduate from Westminster, and I guess now 85 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: it's what do I want to be when I grow up? 86 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: Well, actually, even before that, I was asking that question, 87 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: trying to you know, as a teenager, I knew I 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: wasn't going to pitch for the Atlanta Braves, although I 89 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: didn't really believe they wouldn't call me, but they never did. 90 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: So were you left or right? I was right hand? Okay, 91 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: right handed? Left handed? You might have had a shot. 92 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: Maybe right, But as a teenager, I read the Bible, 93 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: and the church mattered to me as a teenager. But 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 2: even as a teenager, the thought of preaching fifty two 95 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: sermons a year since shivers down my spine still does, 96 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 2: so I knew I didn't want to go down that path. 97 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: But you know, when I'm fourteen, fifteen years old, I 98 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: realized that a third of the Bible has to do 99 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: with healing the sick. It's literally on every page. But 100 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: I would look around and see what churches did, and 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: there just wasn't much to it. 102 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: You know. 103 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 2: We would pray for people on Sunday morning, the pastor 104 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: was expected to visit people in the hospital. A few 105 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: people visited the shut ends, and that defined our healing ministry. 106 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: It seemed to me that there ought to be more 107 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: to it than that. 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: You really felt that way at fifteen, I did. 109 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And to that point, my father particularly thought 110 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: I shouldn't be focusing so much on issue matters of 111 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: the church. I had to focus more on becoming a doctor. 112 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 2: So so anyway, I go to college and then where 113 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: the University of Virginia. 114 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: Okay, well, then you you may not have been the 115 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: smartest guy in class. But dumb people don't go to 116 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: the University of Virginia, Well do they? Alex? 117 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: Oh did you Okay? Well? Who? 118 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Producer Alex and Scott have something in common all 119 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: of a sudden. 120 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: I don't actually think of myself as a Wahoo. So 121 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: but I spent my junior year in London, so that 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: was actually a fantastic experience, sort of seeing the world 123 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: in a smaller way. But then I go to seminary 124 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: and I went to Yell Divating School, and I spent 125 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: most of my time there looking at what the church 126 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: has historically done when it came to issues around health. 127 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: You have an undergraduate from Virginia in history and history 128 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: and you go to London, London School Economics, maybe University 129 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: of London. University say that like it's a new University 130 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: of London. But that's pretty cool. So now you've got 131 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: a degree from Virginian in history and you've you've got 132 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: to experience the University of London. So your world views 133 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: growing right, And now you say your dad, who wants 134 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: you to be a doctor? You say, well no, at 135 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen, that's it's the Bible. I'm going to 136 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: Yale Divinity School, right, it is Yale Divinity School a 137 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: theologically do you graduate from there as a quote pastor? How? 138 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how that works. 139 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: It was a three year experience and you graduate with 140 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: a Master of Divinity, and that's what a degree you 141 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: would need to go be ordained and as a Presbyterian, 142 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: a Methodist, episcopalia and something like that. 143 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: And so that's the typical track of people who ges that. 144 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 145 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: Okay, And so I'm sorry, So now now you're a 146 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: Yell Divinity school, but you're still caught up on this 147 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: fifteen year fifteen year old obsession with Christian and healing. Right. 148 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: And so I spent three years at WHYDS really looking 149 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: at what historically the church had done to take seriously 150 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: these issues of faith and health. What would it look like? 151 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: And I come to realize there's a reason these hospitals 152 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: have church names on them. We just forgot. I'll give 153 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: you one and. 154 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: You just for good. So Baptist Hospital, Methodist, Freshterian Hospital, 155 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: they do have all these. 156 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: They have no idea why they're called that. 157 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: It's funny. 158 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: But I'll give you an example on the Methodist sides, 159 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: which I happen to be. So I'm a United Methodist minister. 160 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 2: But John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, actually 161 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: thought of himself as a physician. He practiced medicine from 162 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: the day he was nineteen until he died. He wrote 163 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: a book called Primitive Physic, which is a self help 164 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: health care manual that was so successful in the American frontier. 165 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: It is late as eighteen fifty. If you were anywhere 166 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 2: really in America by eighteen fifty, there would have been 167 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 2: a greater chance of you having a copy of Wesley's 168 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 2: book Primitive Physic, and you would your own copy of 169 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: the Bible. No kidding, now, I fully confess Wesley had 170 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: some unusual ideas. He had at least eighteen different cures 171 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: for baldness, most of which I've tried myself, and I 172 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: think your producer may need to start taking notes at 173 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: this point. 174 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: I love it. It's the first time anyone's called me 175 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: on that ever. Woh wow, is that what you said? Wow? 176 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: Whatever that means. 177 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: So, my favorite cure was that you take a big 178 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: red onion, you put it on, you rub it on 179 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: your head until it turns red, and then you put 180 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: honey on it. Now, if that doesn't work, you could 181 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: use Wesley's tried and true method for anything, which is 182 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 2: you can't electrify it. He saw a demonstration of static 183 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: electricity that was put on by Benjamin Franklin in London, 184 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: and he was so enamored with the idea that he 185 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: went home and in his garage he created a little 186 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: thing he called an electrifier, and if you read his diaries, 187 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: he used it virtually every day. So I have this 188 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 2: great vision of you know, if you come to me 189 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: and you have a cold, and I'm in my role 190 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: as a physician, and i give you the best that 191 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 2: modern medicine has to offer for your cold, how long 192 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: will it be before you get better? I mean, I'm 193 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: very optimistic. I tell people five days. Of course, if 194 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: you sit at home and you wait until you get better, 195 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: and you don't do anything, how long will it be 196 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: before you get better? 197 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: Five days? 198 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: But I have this great vision of people coming to 199 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 2: Wesley and he takes these electrodes and puts them up 200 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: to a person's nose and he shocks living daylights out 201 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: of them, and those people get better in five days. 202 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: But it's not as crazy as it sounds if somebody 203 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: falls down dead, right, you probably want me to put 204 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 2: a little electricity through your heart. Electricity is actually quite 205 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: important in medicine today's but really, more to the point, 206 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: Wesley believed. 207 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: That's hilarious, Okay, go ahead. 208 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: Wesley believed that every method of society, indeed, every church, 209 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: should be involved in direct hands on healthcare. For Wesley, 210 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: it mostly had to do with the coal miners of 211 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: western England when he came to America. Even though he 212 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: was not a very successful evangelist, in two years of 213 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: being in America, Wesley did not convert one person, not one, 214 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: but his ideas around healthcare actually caught on and spread 215 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: all over the country until as late as eighteen sixty three, 216 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: a pastor in Guilford, Connecticut, wrote the standard textbook of 217 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: physiology for the entire country. Really, so what happened because 218 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: what I just described is not the way it is 219 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: in America today. So that in my time in the 220 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: Vinity School, I came to realize, in my own opinion, 221 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 2: there are three reasons that things change. One the split 222 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 2: between science and religion that comes about because of Darwin. 223 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: You should never underestimate the influence of Darwin we experience 224 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: it every day. The second is, during the late nineteenth 225 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: and early twentieth century, there was an explosion in medical 226 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: science and along with it there was a new profession 227 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: known as medicine. It was seen as financially lucrative. It 228 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: made sense to keep the clergy out. And the truth 229 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: is the clergy were too lazy to keep up with 230 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: all the new knowledge. Now, unfortunately, with all that new knowledge, 231 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: still no cure for baldness. And then the third thing, 232 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: and really the most important thing, is during the same timeframe, 233 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: late nineteenth early twentieth century, there's a reassertion of a 234 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: philosophical idea known as Cartesian dualism. Say that again, So 235 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: Cartesian dualism Cartesians dualism is a Kart's idea. If it's 236 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: an idea, all right, hang. 237 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: On, Scott. For all of our listeners, this is our 238 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: first Yale Divinity graduate, so you're going to have to 239 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: deal with big words Cartesian dualism. Okay, go, that's that's good. 240 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: So anything that's an idea that Renee de Kart, a 241 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 2: seventeenth century French philosopher, throws out there, that's what it's 242 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: referred to as Cartesian okay, But this is an incredibly 243 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: important idea because the KRT, who just recapitulates Plato, convinces 244 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: us that you can take a human being and separate 245 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: us into a body and a spirit. And we put 246 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 2: the body on one side and say it's the purview 247 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: of science and medicine. We put the spirit on the 248 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: other say it's okay for the church and people of 249 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: faith to mess around with your spirit, but heaven forbid 250 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: we cross that line and actually care about our bodies. 251 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 2: So that idea is actually a fundamentally non Christian, non Jewish, 252 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: non Muslim, non Hindu idea within all of our world religions, 253 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 2: our bodies and our spirits are one. 254 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: Our bodies are our bodies our temple. 255 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: Well exactly, and you know what affects our bodies affects 256 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: our spirit and vice versa. 257 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: But this what affects our body affects our spirit. In 258 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: other words, if our body is broken and we physically 259 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: feel like hell, our spirit's broken. 260 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And we I mean, look what I 261 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: just if you start thinking about it, this is just 262 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: we all get this. And yet this separation between body 263 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: and spirit rules today. You know, I'll give you two 264 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: examples of both of them. One, I guarantee you this moment, 265 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: there's somebody in an emergency room here in Memphis, but 266 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: all over the country who has walked in the emergency 267 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: room and told the doctor, my heart hurts. And then 268 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: the doctor is going to do all these tests cat skin, MR, 269 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 2: and then all the tests are going to be normal, 270 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: and the doctor's going to tell the patient there's nothing wrong. 271 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: But you can MRI somebody's chest all day long and 272 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: you'll never know what a broken heart looks like. Fifty 273 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: percent of people who come to primary care doctors like 274 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: me have no medical problem. People come to the doctor 275 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: today for reasons they used to come to the priest. Now, 276 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: the other side of this is the least healthy meal 277 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: you could eat every week is at a church. Our 278 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: churches spaghetti dinner, spaghetti dinner and everything else. Our churches 279 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: have blessed the sin of gluttony for the sake of fellowship. 280 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: Wow, say that again. 281 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: Our churches have blessed the sin of gluttony for the 282 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: sake of fellowship. 283 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: You mean coffee and doughnuts and Wednesday night suppers or 284 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: fried chicken. 285 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: And as long as we're getting along and we're having 286 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: fellowship together, then all that other is okay. But in 287 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: the midst of the obesity epidemic in America, clergy clergy 288 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: are actually twenty percent heavier than the rest of the population. Wow, 289 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: you can't have a healthy church if you don't have 290 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: healthy leaders. And I assure you we do not have 291 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: healthy leaders. 292 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 293 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: I hope you'll follow us on all your favorite social 294 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: media channels where we share more powerful content from the 295 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: army search for at army of normal folks on every channel. 296 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Why does a guy that doesn't 297 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: want to reach fifty two sermons week, who knows that 298 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: at fifteen and twenty say yeah, but I'm gonna go 299 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: to Yell Divinity School anyway. 300 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 2: Because I cared deeply about the church in my own life. 301 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 2: I wanted to be engaged with the church in a 302 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: professional way, in some way or the other. 303 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: But you just didn't know yet. 304 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was going to look like. 305 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 2: And so one day I'm in the chaplain's office of 306 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: the Yale Medical School while I'm in Divinity School, and 307 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: I look on his desk and there's a little pamphlet 308 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 2: that says how to start a church based health clinic, 309 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: and I go, that's it, that's what I want to do. 310 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: So it was written by Luis Scott nineteen seventy eight. 311 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: Okay, so thirty five years ago, seven years, forty years gosh, 312 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: forty years. 313 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: Ago, No, forty five years ago. 314 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: Whatever, I can't do the math. You're from Yale. You 315 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: can help me. 316 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: Before a lot of people here listen, were born. 317 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you see this pamphlet and it says how 318 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: to So this idea was, you know, forty five years ago. 319 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: If they're making pamphlets about it, there's somebody who's there. 320 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: I wasn't the only person out there doing this. 321 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're thinking this way. 322 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it turns out there's a lot of people 323 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: out there who care about this link. 324 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so you say that's what I want to. 325 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: Do, yes, And so I now set out to figure 326 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: out what would that look like. So this pamphlet was 327 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: written by a Lutheran pastor in Chicago. I go to 328 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 2: meet him, and through him, just go meet one person 329 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: after the other. Over the next few years. I steal 330 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: the best ideas I can. I merge them with my own. 331 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: I finished seminary, I go to medical school where I 332 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: started at Yale, and I hated Yale Medical School and 333 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: I ended up transferring and I finished at Emory, and 334 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 2: then I do a residency to be a family doctor, 335 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: and I'm finally ready to start my own church based 336 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: health clinic. I want to stand south. I don't want 337 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: to go back to Atlanta. It's just gotten to be 338 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: too big. If I never go back to Atlanta again, 339 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: I'll be happy. 340 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: We just lost all Atlanta lost. Sorry, it's okay, they 341 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: can get over it. And then they've lost an asset. 342 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: And then one day, and I'm not making this up. 343 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 2: I read somewhere that Memphis is the poorest major city 344 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: in America, And based on that, I say, I'm going 345 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: to Memphis. 346 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: Had you ever been here? 347 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: No, I did not know one person. I'd never set 348 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: foot into place. At this point, I was thirty three 349 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: years old. 350 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: Stop. There's a story that I think emulates so much 351 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: of what we've already heard. That you told me probably ten, twelve, 352 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: thirteen years ago. And I'm going to mess it up 353 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: and I'll let you clean it up. But it was 354 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: about I think you were an intern or not an 355 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: enturn you were in med school or were doing whatever. 356 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 2: Of the third year medical student. 357 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: There we go, you're a medical student and you're in 358 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: an er and there's a person on a table dying 359 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: quote coding to use the medical terms. And something was 360 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: said during that that was profound that also helped shape 361 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: so much what you're talking about. Can you tell us 362 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: that story. 363 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, as a third year medical student, you're part 364 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: of a team. You have a senior resident, but they're 365 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: just young doctors too. But there's five or six people 366 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: on the team, and we walk in and somebody is 367 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 2: coding essentially their heart has stopped beating. And then the 368 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: way it's normally run is the third year medical student 369 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: me is the person doing chess compressions. So I'm doing 370 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: the chess compressions. Everybody goes to do their thing, and 371 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: then the senior resident that our boss, if you will, 372 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: walks in in the middle of the fact. I mean, 373 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: I realize I have this human being's life underneath my hands, 374 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: and he asked the team, hey, guys, when this is 375 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: all over, where are we going for pizza? And I 376 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: start thinking to myself do I want pepperoni? At which 377 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 2: point I pull myself back from the abyss. You know, 378 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: I felt like I was getting ready to go over 379 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 2: the cliff, having forgotten everything I had spent the last 380 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: twenty years trying to do. And thank god I had 381 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: that experience, because I knew that life is much more 382 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: valuable than thinking about pizza. 383 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: You know, I remember you telling me that story. I 384 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: have thought about it often since then, and I actually 385 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: was thinking about it last night, thinking about visiting with 386 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: you for the podcast today. And I bet if Pew 387 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: Research did a poll and the simple question was how 388 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: many of you hate going to the doctor, it would 389 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: be way in the nineties, everybody I don't like going 390 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: to the doctor? Yeah, let me, do you like going 391 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: to the doctor? Do you like going to the doctor? 392 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: Let it be known that Alex's girls do not like 393 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: going to the doctor. Alex, do you like going to 394 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: the doctor? Get I don't get lollipops. Nobody likes going 395 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: to the doctor. And the reason I think people don't 396 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: like going to the doctor is because it's a place 397 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: where you have to be vulnerable, and nobody likes to 398 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: be vulnerable because you're entrusting your essence, your health to 399 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: a human being who you really don't usually typically have 400 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: a very intimate relationship with. It's more of a professional relationship. 401 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: And you have to be as vulnerable to this person 402 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: who you don't have intimacy with, about anything that's hurting you, 403 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: bothering you, whatever. 404 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: And I also think it's an inn unequal power relationship. 405 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: And it is an unequal power relationship because you are 406 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: beholden to their opinion. And when you think about that, 407 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: and you pair that with your story, I shudder to 408 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: think that my life, my existence, may be in somebody's 409 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: hands one day who instead of considering the gravity of 410 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: the situation of my life, they may be thinking about 411 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: sausage versepectony. 412 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: So this is what I refer to as the religion 413 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: of medicine, because medicine is a religion unto itself. Every 414 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: doctor is not a faith, a religion or religion. Absolutely 415 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: every doctor I know when they go to medical school, 416 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: they're asked a question, why do you want to be 417 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: a doctor? Every last one of them says, because I 418 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 2: want to help people. Now along the way, things change 419 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: and they get interested in the money and the issue 420 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 2: of power, and they are pulled away from these issues. 421 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 2: I mean, at same time as a medical student. I 422 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: was on rounds and one of my other medical students 423 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: starts presenting a patient to the attending and goes into 424 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: the things this woman liked and what mattered to her 425 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: in her life, and the attending stops her and says, 426 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: young lady, I think you have gotten too close to 427 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: your patient. You can't get too close to a patient, 428 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 2: you know, trying to understand the things that make that 429 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: person care about life is what medicine should be about. 430 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: It can't just be about, you know, having the right 431 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: medicine or making a diagnosis. 432 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: But truthfully, so many of us have view doctors as 433 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: having this God complex, and it comes from I think 434 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: that inequity of power and the vulnerability we have to 435 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: have to someone who is going to direct the things 436 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: we do with our lives that could or could not 437 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: extend our lives or make our lives better. And I 438 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: think intrinsically we get that most of our doctors don't 439 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: know or care about us. 440 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true for most of them, 441 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: but there's. 442 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: Definitely an issue. I'm sorry to say that. Let me 443 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: rephrase that many don't. And I think that's where that 444 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the doctor comes from 445 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: all of what we're talking about. 446 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: Well, the other part about this is in America particularly, 447 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: we have developed an unholy love affair with technology. We've 448 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: come to believe that I can live my life any 449 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: way I want to, and it doesn't matter because when 450 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 2: I'm broken, the doctor could fix me by using the technology. 451 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 2: But I'm here to tell you the technology is not 452 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 2: that good. The doctor's not that smart. You know, God 453 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: gave us this body for reason, and we have an 454 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: obligation to take care of it. 455 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: Okay, So with that perspective, with the perspective as you 456 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: as a fourteen year old absent the no hitter, which 457 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: is a cool story but really doesn't fit anywhere, But 458 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: we're not editing it out because that's a cool story, Yale. Now, Emery, 459 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: you've had these experiences. You even felt yourself coming off 460 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: the edge of what drove you to medicine in the 461 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: first place, and you get pulled back and you see, 462 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: Memphis is the poor city. And you have this idea 463 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: of faith and health being undeniably intertwined, and that true 464 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: care has to talk about body and spirit simultaneously. And 465 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: so in your infinite wisdom for a really smart guy, 466 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: you moved to Memphis knowing nobody, not one person. 467 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: I came totally just selling out an empty cart, knocking 468 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: on doors. So I came to start something that was 469 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 2: going to be called Chruch Health Center, Cross Senence Logo 470 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: led by a Methodist minister me. I needed money to 471 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 2: get our doors open because it's a true charity. And 472 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: you're a doctor and I'm a doctor. But I went 473 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: to the most obvious place for funding churches, a Jewish 474 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: family foundation. 475 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: I would have said, of course churches. You say, a 476 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: Jewish family foundation, that's right. The plan where a Christian 477 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: based health clinic. 478 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 2: The Plow Foundation, gave the first dollars to support and 479 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: open church Health. 480 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: That is phenomenal. 481 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 2: It is how to and I love telling the story 482 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: because church health is about engaging people in the fullness 483 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: and richness of life. 484 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:45,959 Speaker 1: So uh. 485 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: In the New Testament, Paul, who writes a significant part 486 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: of the New Testament, tells us that we see through 487 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 2: a glass darkly. What I think that means is that 488 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: none of us have all the answers we need each other. 489 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 2: Diversity in all its forms is a good thing. So 490 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: the fact that a Jewish family foundation supported Church Health 491 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: You know, Temple Israel is one of our biggest supporters, 492 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 2: but our Muslim doctors throughout the city are huge volunteers 493 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: for us. We have enormous support from the Hindu community 494 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: in Memphis, you know, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu. I don't care Christian. 495 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: But the reason Church Health exists is because every faith 496 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 2: community out there understands what I'm talking about. You know, 497 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: from a Christian standpoint, you know the call to discipleship. 498 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: You want to follow Jesus. You're expected to do three things, 499 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: to preach, to teach, and to heal. You do not 500 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: get to take a pass on the healing part. You know, 501 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: if you claim to be a Christian, do you really 502 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: want to at the end of time have God look 503 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: at you in the face and say to you, did 504 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: you think I was kidding about all that healing stuff. 505 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: It's probably not what you want to what you want 506 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: to have to answer for, is it. 507 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: If you want to claim to be a Christian, then 508 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: you have to find a way to be engaged in 509 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: a healing ministry. If you don't do it, you're ignoring 510 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: a third of the Gospel. And again I blame Descartes 511 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: for all of this. 512 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So you knock on doors in Memphis, 513 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: and your first financial supporter for this idea is for 514 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: a Christian based health center is a Jewish foundation. 515 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: The other then Methodist hospital also gave us one hundred 516 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: thousand dollars to get our doors open. And then I 517 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 2: found my way to Saint John's Methodist Church at that. 518 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: Point, which is Midtown Memphis school. 519 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 2: At that point, led by a pastor who had been 520 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: very involved in the civil rights movement at the time 521 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 2: of the sanitation workers' strike, he played this role of 522 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 2: shuttle diplomacy between the Mayor's camp and the King's camp. 523 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: Wow. 524 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: But when he came to Saint John's for me. Ironically, 525 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: Saint John's was once known as the Doctor's Church, but 526 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: it had been devastated by white flight. It was a 527 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: dying church. And this pastor, Frank McRae, preached a sermon 528 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: that he titled the Queen is Dead, and his point 529 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: was is that Saint John's had to give up the 530 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: concept of being a queen church and become a servant church. 531 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: And so my coming along wanting to start a health 532 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: ministry made perfect sense. So he took me under his wing, 533 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: and then he went hat and glove to Central Church 534 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: and their pastor, Jimmy Latimer. Now these two churches theologically 535 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: could not be further apart, but Frank convinced Latimer for 536 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: his church to also give us one hundred thousand dollars 537 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: to help us renovate a building. And so with that 538 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 2: we got started and we saw twelve patients the first 539 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: day were open September first, nineteen eighty seven. 540 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: So let's talk about those patients because as people are 541 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: listening his crazy story, the idea was also to serve 542 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: people in a professional way medically and spiritually through medicine 543 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: that otherwise we're getting no medical service of any kind. 544 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: Am I so explain that in nineteen eighty seven when 545 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: we opened, there were twenty six million uninsured Americans, almost 546 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: all of them were working in low wage jobs that 547 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: didn't offer health insurance. So it seemed to me that 548 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 2: if we were going to use the resources of people 549 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 2: of faith, not depending on the government. The reason we 550 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: don't depend on federal funding is the government cannot do 551 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: the work of the church, and neither should we ask 552 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: it to. So either we raise the money to do 553 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: this work, or we have to let the doors close. 554 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: But in nineteen eighty seven, they're twenty six million uninsured Americans, 555 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: almost all working, and so that became our focus and 556 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: it continues to be that way today. So we provide 557 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: healthcare for the people who work to make our lives comfortable. 558 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: They cook our food, take care of our children, wash 559 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: our dishes, cut our grass well one day, dig our graves. 560 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: They don't complain. Yet when they get sick, their options 561 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: are very. 562 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: Few, and you provide world class, first class health. 563 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: Our goals to provide the same quality of care you 564 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: would expect your mother to receive. So in nineteen eighty seven, 565 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: I was the only doctor. There were seven of us. 566 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 2: We had a budget of three hundred thousand dollars. But 567 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: immediately we engaged physicians to be willing to volunteer their time, 568 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: worked out a relationship with the hospitals that as long 569 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: as the physician donates his or her time, we can 570 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: admit people free of charge. There's not a problem somebody 571 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 2: could have from the cradle to grave that we can't 572 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: take care of. Today, we have a budget of twenty 573 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: seven million dollars. We have a thousand doctors who volunteer 574 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: with us, along with our staff physicians, and it's a 575 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: wonder to behold. 576 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: And what I learned is you want to take care 577 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: of the working poor, the working uninsured poor, right define 578 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: that because you do have a definition for it, you 579 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: also have a definition for how they have to participate 580 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: just a little bit. And I think this part is 581 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: really key. 582 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not a free clinic. I don't believe in 583 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 2: free clinics. 584 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: Why don't you believe in free I've heard you say 585 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: it ten times. 586 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: Well, poor people are not looking for a handout, They're 587 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: looking for something they can afford. I mean people tell 588 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: me almost you know, several times a week that I 589 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: wouldn't come to Church health if it were free. You know, 590 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 2: it creates dignity in people's with their ability to pay something. 591 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: Which also is good for their spirit. 592 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely no question about it. And so you know how 593 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 2: we do this is a small miracle. If I can 594 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: tell just for one story, I think is reflective of 595 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 2: how it works for us. So these days as a doctor, 596 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: I mostly see people in our walking clinic. So the 597 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: cris here to come to walking clinic because I am 598 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 2: sick today, I don't have health insurance. The cost is 599 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 2: forty dollars it's the same no matter what your problem is. 600 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: You got a cold, you've got a broken bone, you're 601 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 2: a death doorstep. It's obviously a better deals a sicker 602 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 2: you are, but for forty bucks, a pretty good deal, 603 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 2: no matter what. So I see this guy who is 604 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 2: fifty years old and he works in concret. Pray you 605 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 2: never have to work in concrete. He comes has a 606 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: pain in his knee, and then I X ray his knee, 607 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 2: and if I showed it, even to you guys, you 608 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 2: would go, that ain't right. 609 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: We know nothing about what a knee x ray looks like, 610 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: but you could look at that and go. 611 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: You would go, there's something not right there. So he 612 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: needs his knee replaced. So we have the ability to 613 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 2: have orthopedic surgeons who will do the surgery for free. 614 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: And hospitals provide as long as. 615 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 2: The physician's not getting paid, then the hospital is not 616 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: going to charge a dime. Wow, but I need more 617 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: than that. I need anesthesia, radiology, pathology, You need the knee, 618 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: and then I'm gonna need the knee and all of that. 619 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 2: Smith and nephew is going to donate that. So we're 620 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: ready to do his surgery. Going to take away his pain. 621 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 2: And then he asked me, well, I have to miss work. 622 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 3: For me replicement maybe, and you work in concrete, Yes, 623 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 3: you're gonna miss work, to which he then says to me, 624 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: you know, for now, the duct tape works just fine. 625 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: He was duct taping his knee, right. 626 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: You should not have to duct tape your knee to 627 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 2: go to work in America. So we make a plan. 628 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: He sees our physical therapists. You know, one of the 629 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 2: things that can get people back to work often is 630 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: physical therapy, and that's never available to poor people. But 631 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 2: we have five physical therapists on our staff. So he 632 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: sees a physical therapist and we get him through the 633 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: work season. We replace his knee in January, when in 634 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: Memphis you don't do a lot of concrete work. He 635 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 2: comes back to physical therapy to get ready to go 636 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 2: to work the next spring. Now, this is what many 637 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: people refer to as church help magic, Only it's not magic. 638 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: What it is is what's possible when people are willing 639 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: to come together to do the right thing. 640 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: How much should that cost him? 641 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: So he had every time he comes to Church health, 642 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 2: he's going to have to pay twenty to forty dollars. 643 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 2: From that point on, once you need our subspecialists, then 644 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 2: there's no charge. 645 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: So this man got his knee replaced for a. 646 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 2: Couple hundred bucks. 647 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. It is underbelievable, and it's something people wouldn't 648 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: ever believe happens in the United States but without the government. 649 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 1: But it does. 650 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, because people are basically good, and people are inclined 651 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: to want to do the right thing. They just don't 652 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 2: know how. So with our physicians, when we are asking 653 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 2: them to volunteer these days, I have to hear about 654 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 2: how how terrible it is out there and how awful 655 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: the healthcare system is. But then they will come back 656 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 2: and go, now, what do you want me to do? 657 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 2: And all I want from them is a few hours 658 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: of their time, at which point they're willing to do that. 659 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: So I'll remember first visiting you a maybe two or 660 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: three story house or series of houses that were basically 661 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: retrofitted into a doctor's offices over off ive guests Peabody 662 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: on Peabody in Midtown, right, And at that time, ten 663 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: years ago, how many patients were you seeing monthly or annually? 664 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we've probably had thirty thousand patients. Then they're 665 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 2: now eighty thousand who depend on us. We don't see 666 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 2: them every year, but if you go ask them, you know, 667 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 2: where do you go to the doctor, They're going to say, 668 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 2: I got at church else. So it was thirty thousand, 669 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 2: So clearly a long way from a three hundred thousand 670 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: dollars initial budget from a guy who showed up not 671 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 2: knowing anybody and seeing twelve patients the first day to 672 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 2: just that. And then I don't know where you went 673 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 2: to business school because I didn't hear it, but you 674 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 2: clearly have a lot of entrepreneurism in you. You decided, yeah, 675 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 2: sure we're seeing thirty thousand people, but Memphis and the 676 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: Memphis areas of me and two or me and three 677 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 2: Memphis proper, there's a lot more than thirty thousand working 678 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 2: uninsured people around here. We need to scale up. But 679 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 2: for that you need bigger digs. Right, So we'd grown 680 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 2: into thirteen buildings, it'd become very inefficient. 681 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: Thirteen houses. Really there were literally houses, literally houses that 682 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: we had converted right with and not co joined. They 683 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: were houses. So I guess you were walking across driveways 684 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: to see different people, Yes. 685 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 2: And some some of them we had connected together. It 686 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 2: was very much. It was a quagmar, a quagmar, right, 687 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 2: So that's when I first saw it. 688 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, right. 689 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 2: So then on July eighth, twenty eleven, so just over 690 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 2: thirteen years ago, a young art historian, the world's expert 691 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 2: on the Renaissance painter Peter Brugl, who I know you 692 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 2: know all about. 693 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 4: All about it, old Peter Bugle Brugal. Yeah. Anyway, so 694 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 4: his name's Todd Richardson. Todd had come to me with 695 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 4: the idea that he is from Memphis, he is from Mississippi, and. 696 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 1: He is the he's what what is. 697 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 2: The world's expert on the rent on this painter Peter 698 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 2: Brugl who painted during the Renaissance. 699 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: There is a world export on a guy named Peter Brugl. 700 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 2: Who lives in Memphis. 701 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: Of course he does, why wouldn't he. Yeah, okay, so. 702 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 2: He was teaching at the University of Memphis at the time. Okay, 703 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 2: and he actually played football O missed, believe it or not. 704 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: Well, Denny's a great guy. So first of all, this 705 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: is how these stories wag and wiggle. Church health and 706 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: an old miss football player who is now the foremost 707 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: expert on Peter Brugl, a Renaissance artist, and you connect, right. 708 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 2: So he came to me with the idea that he 709 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 2: and his artist friends had of turning what was once 710 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 2: a Sears distribution center that had been abandoned since nineteen 711 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 2: ninety two. This building that was in square footage larger 712 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 2: than the Empire State Building, but was abandoned in nineteen 713 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 2: ninety two. There were thirty two hundred windows. Every last 714 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 2: one was broken. It was surrounded in barbed wire. 715 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: Hold it time out. Everybody needs to hear me so 716 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: I can set this up just a little bit. When 717 00:41:54,440 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: you hear Sears distribution center, don't think metal buildings with trucks. 718 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: Think what they built back in the thirties, which is 719 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: huge concrete, ten twelve story structure with a big spire. 720 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: I mean, think of a Gothically inspired or I don't know, 721 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: maybe even Art Nouveau inspired, massive downtown type building, brick 722 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: with cornerstones and all of that. That's what you're talking. 723 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 2: About, right, this building. If you were in a Seventh 724 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 2: State area, if you ordered out a Sears catalog, and 725 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 2: anybody listening, if you're over fifty, you know what I'm 726 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 2: talking about. But for everybody listening. You know, it's where 727 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 2: your parents would at Christmas circle things and trying to 728 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 2: convince their parents to buy that for them. 729 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: For Chris, exactly right. It was the pay per version 730 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,919 Speaker 1: of Amazon. Right. 731 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,919 Speaker 2: It was Amazon before anybody thought of Amazon, that's right. 732 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 2: But because of their failed business practice is they quit 733 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 2: publishing the Catalog in nineteen ninety two, and as a result, 734 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 2: they abandoned their distribution centers, including the one in Memphis. 735 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 2: It set totally vacant. Every developer in Memphis tried to 736 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: come up the way to repurpose it. The person known 737 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 2: as mister Downtown in Memphis. His brilliant idea was take 738 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 2: a stick of dynamite to it, but even that was 739 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: going to cost more money than anybody was willing to do. 740 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 2: So this building just set totally vacant, just an incredible 741 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 2: I swore the neighborhood around it, you know, had gone 742 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 2: down significantly. 743 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: How many windows thirty. 744 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: Two hundred is that all? That's all? And else everyone 745 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 2: was broken and more. 746 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: Than likely vagrants living in it and all kinds of things. 747 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 2: Well, not only that, the fire department used to practice 748 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 2: in the building. They would set it a fire and 749 00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 2: then go put it out. Wow, that was its only purpose. 750 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: And so this renaissance ole misplayer. 751 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 2: Guy and then his artist friends. Yes, they got together 752 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 2: and they wanted to redo the building and turn it 753 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 2: into an artist colony. 754 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:15,919 Speaker 1: Right. 755 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 2: Trust me, that is not a financially viable idea. I mean, 756 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 2: who in their right mind would want to put money 757 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 2: into doing. 758 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: That, especially something an artist colonye with greater square footage 759 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 1: than the Empire State Building. Right. 760 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: So they came to me just wanting Church Health to 761 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 2: commit to being their doctors. Once they moved in here, 762 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 2: I saw all they were asking of us. 763 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: That's hilarious. 764 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 2: But on this day in July eight, twenty eleven, rather 765 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 2: than agreeing to do that, I said, well, what if 766 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,919 Speaker 2: we move in there with you? So I married one 767 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 2: crazy idea with another crazy idea. And I think you 768 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 2: seem to appreciate how truly absurd it was that I 769 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 2: thought that could work. 770 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is stupid. It is ridiculous to 771 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: think that this empty building that's been set on fire 772 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,280 Speaker 1: intentionally by the City of Memphis Fire Department for practice, 773 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: had no windows left, and honestly the area around this 774 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: building had gone away, and it was not great. No 775 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: it was not great, and you're going to put an 776 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: artist's colony and a faith based health center in it 777 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: without windows. And that concludes Part one of my conversation 778 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: with doctor Scott Morrise, and you do not want to 779 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: miss part two that's now available. You'll get to hear 780 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,320 Speaker 1: how Scott not only helped transform that old Seers Building, 781 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: but also the entire city of Memphis with it. Together, Guys, 782 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: we can change the country and it starts with ye 783 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: I'll see in part to me