Speaker 1: You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
Speaker 1: I am so excited because today we have a really
Speaker 1: special guest and she's not a family member, so this
Speaker 1: is like a real legit guest. Doctor Eliza Pressman is
Speaker 1: a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working
Speaker 1: with families and the healthcare providers who care for them.
Speaker 1: She's the author of the New York Times best selling
Speaker 1: book The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential Guide to
Speaker 1: Raising Good Humans, and the host of the award winning
Speaker 1: podcast Raising Good Humans. And most importantly, she is a really, really,
Speaker 1: really dear friend of mine. And I'm so excited You're
Speaker 1: hair welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy you're here. Thank
Speaker 1: you for doing this. You're like my first official guest. Actually, no,
Speaker 1: that's not true. I had Kim and you, I mean.
Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian. That's fine, but your numbers are going to
Speaker 2: go crazy.
Speaker 1: So Alisa and I actually met before I even had kids.
Speaker 1: Alisa used to run an incredible parenting group in New
Speaker 1: York called the Seedlings Group, and I wanted to work
Speaker 1: for her until she told me that I had to
Speaker 1: have my masters to do so, and then I decided, no,
Speaker 1: we'll just be friends. I did not want to go
Speaker 1: back to school, and so we met in New York.
Speaker 1: I mean fourteen years ago. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2: No, I think it was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: It was fifteen years ago. I didn't even have kids yet,
Speaker 1: so you're right, fifteen years ago. And she's obviously gone
Speaker 1: on to write this incredible bestselling New York Times bestseller book,
Speaker 1: which I hosted one of the LA launch.
Speaker 2: Parties, the first launch I sure did.
Speaker 1: And you're here today.
Speaker 2: To yeah, why am I here?
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're here today because I think parenting is
Speaker 1: the most incredible opportunity that we get to do, and
Speaker 1: it's also the hardest thing I've ever done in my
Speaker 1: entire life, even if you just want to do it
Speaker 1: like kind of okay, it's really hard. And you've helped
Speaker 1: me throughout the years with my kids, and I thought
Speaker 1: we could just talk a little bit about parenting and
Speaker 1: your expertise in all subjects and answer all my questions
Speaker 1: and have my own personal therapy session.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. Also, just I want to say that
Speaker 2: I know that it's off putting and annoying to be
Speaker 2: like an expert in this when we are the experts
Speaker 2: for our kids and for ourselves. So I'm technically an
Speaker 2: expert in that I have a degree in this area
Speaker 2: and I work in this area, but I don't want
Speaker 2: to I think one of the things that we have
Speaker 2: to know as an expert is that we don't know
Speaker 2: nearly as much as we think we do. And I
Speaker 2: don't want to say that and then make you feel
Speaker 2: like what I what I would share with you is
Speaker 2: something you shouldn't trust so much as just know that
Speaker 2: it's just going to be different. And we've had this
Speaker 2: experience where I'll say something and you're like, no.
Speaker 1: Yes, that is true. I come from a very emotional
Speaker 1: background and you come from a very clinical background.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably so often times you'll I remember
Speaker 1: when my Ace was obsessed with his pacifier and you
Speaker 1: were very you know, clear on me taking it away,
Speaker 1: and I think I just said like, no, thanks, no thanks.
Speaker 2: By the way, I believe in passifiers for the first year.
Speaker 2: I mean I think he was.
Speaker 1: Going on for Yeah, I think it was time for
Speaker 1: the passifiers to go away. But I think one of
Speaker 1: the most incredible things about you is that you never
Speaker 1: make anybody that's speaking to you feel a embarrassed or
Speaker 1: bad about the choices that they may have made. And
Speaker 1: you also make it feel very approachable, so you really
Speaker 1: take into account who it is that you're speaking to,
Speaker 1: and then you go off of that. You know, like,
Speaker 1: there's so many books where it's like do it this way, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's not going to work if it's not in
Speaker 1: line with who you are as a human or a parent.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, I mean, if I want to know who
Speaker 2: you are, I don't want to tell you who to be.
Speaker 1: Right which is I mean, I think that's the difference
Speaker 1: between you and other parenting. That's why I was so
Speaker 1: anxious to have you on because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of times we don't ask the questions because we feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: we should know the answers. Yeah, or I'm going to
Speaker 1: feel stupid if I ask this question, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to feel like a bad parent, because so much of
Speaker 1: the time amazing parents there's no perfect parent, but parents
Speaker 1: feel I don't know. Today, for instance, I missed pajama
Speaker 1: Day at school, and I felt like.
Speaker 2: I'm only laughing because I've definitely done.
Speaker 1: That, right, But it was for Gus, who would love,
Speaker 1: definitely love the pajama day care the most. And I
Speaker 1: felt like I was so embarrassed, and I was in school,
Speaker 1: like watching all the kids come in their pajamas, and
Speaker 1: I just thought to myself, holy shit, my morning is
Speaker 1: about to suck, right. And he was actually fine with it, ah,
Speaker 1: which is shocking because I think I dropped him off.
Speaker 1: I didn't like walk him in, So I think it
Speaker 1: because I wasn't there, he was okay.
Speaker 2: He couldn't give you a reaction. Well, that's really adaptable.
Speaker 2: That's kind of a wins.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's really like kind of a big move
Speaker 1: forward for him because we get stuck a lot of
Speaker 1: the times. What initially drew you to focus on parenting
Speaker 1: and child development? What do you think?
Speaker 2: Before I answer that question, may I also just say,
Speaker 2: ye that the fact that you made that mistake, I
Speaker 2: think gave him permission to make mistakes. So I think
Speaker 2: it was a win all around, except for the embarrassment
Speaker 2: of like being lightly disorganized in a moment, right, which.
Speaker 1: We all I mean.
Speaker 2: And also, why are they doing pajama day this month?
Speaker 1: Oh? Because at this school every single Wednesday is a
Speaker 1: theme for first grade. So that's really hard to keep
Speaker 1: up with all the themes and I'm barely making it
Speaker 1: through the week. So I just I was also I
Speaker 1: give tours at the school, at the elementary school, and
Speaker 1: I found out about the pajama Day as the tour
Speaker 1: was beginning, so I was like, oh, okay, this is great,
Speaker 1: this is yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry to interrupt, but I just felt like that
Speaker 2: we do need to do that more often. And it's
Speaker 2: easier for me to say to you than to believe myself.
Speaker 2: But I think those are moments where we're giving our
Speaker 2: kids permission to make mistakes, and you want.
Speaker 1: Them to know that if they make a mistake, the
Speaker 1: sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 2: The sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 1: Right, So tell me about why you went into parenting
Speaker 1: and child development.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think probably nobody into any field related
Speaker 2: to psychology that doesn't have some curiosity about like how
Speaker 2: in the world they came to be who they are
Speaker 2: and the people around them came to be who they are.
Speaker 2: I think I had a colorful family, and like, on
Speaker 2: the deepest level, my grandfather's a Holocaust driver, so it
Speaker 2: was my grandmother. She's just no longer alive, but that
Speaker 2: was such a huge part of my childhood, was hearing
Speaker 2: about the Holocaust at every conversation with our family, and
Speaker 2: I was mesmerized at how you could come out of
Speaker 2: that kind of trauma and raise three kids and then
Speaker 2: grandkids and now great grandkids, and how that impacts their
Speaker 2: growth and development. And so I think from just observationally,
Speaker 2: I thought it was fascinating. And then I think probably
Speaker 2: just being the you know, like a kid, a child
Speaker 2: of divorce and things happening in life, I just was like,
Speaker 2: how does this work?
Speaker 1: And how did you end up being a co founder
Speaker 1: and director of the Mount Seini Parenting Center, And can
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about like what that is?
Speaker 2: So I was I guess I started. I was interested
Speaker 2: in this field before I had kids, and I just
Speaker 2: knew that I wanted to work for kids. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I wanted to work with kids once I
Speaker 2: had kids, but I knew that I wanted to work
Speaker 2: for serving kids and families. And then I was working
Speaker 2: with more affluent families in my private practice, and I
Speaker 2: was teaching at the hospital. I was teaching residents their
Speaker 2: behavior and development rotation it's called and somehow like I
Speaker 2: had the opportunity from that more affluent families that I
Speaker 2: worked with, they wanted to figure out, like how could
Speaker 2: they give back and could it help the families in
Speaker 2: that the hospital serves. And now we work across the country,
Speaker 2: but to have access to parenting and child development and
Speaker 2: all the things that can support mothers and parents in general.
Speaker 2: So we decided to open a parenting center there. And
Speaker 2: then because I was teaching residents, I also learned that
Speaker 2: pediatricians don't really have much training in most of the
Speaker 2: things that we asked them about, because when you go
Speaker 2: to the pediatrician's office, they're pretty routine and like they
Speaker 2: know how to give vaccines and deal with us, you know,
Speaker 2: an illness, but most of the questions they get asked
Speaker 2: about are parenting questions, especially in those first five years.
Speaker 2: And so what I was working very closely with a
Speaker 2: pediatrician who I co founded the parenting center with, and
Speaker 2: she was like, this is information that pediatricians want and
Speaker 2: need because they're oftentimes either winging it going by their
Speaker 2: own experience or asking their mentor, And wouldn't it be
Speaker 2: nice if there was a more streamlined approach to understanding
Speaker 2: behavior and development and creating a curriculum. So that was
Speaker 2: the first thing we did, was to create a curriculum
Speaker 2: for residents that would integrate parenting into their already existing visits.
Speaker 2: And so everything that we do is related to making
Speaker 2: sure that if you are going into a hospital or
Speaker 2: clinic setting, which is where ninety nine percent of babies
Speaker 2: are born, I think maybe it's ninety seven, that there's
Speaker 2: support for you as the provider.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because when I was a teacher for
Speaker 1: ten years, and then I was a therapeutic companion, a
Speaker 1: one to one shadow for four years, so I had
Speaker 1: a lot of experience with kids and young kids too.
Speaker 1: But when I became a parent, everybody prepares you for
Speaker 1: the pregnancy and for the birth, but nobody talks about
Speaker 1: when you go home and you're alone with that baby.
Speaker 1: And even if you have all the experience in the world,
Speaker 1: it's you forget everything and it goes out the window
Speaker 1: because now it's your, your baby, and so all the
Speaker 1: emotion and all of the you're it's so it's all intertwined.
Speaker 1: Whereas when you're giving advice about someone else's child, the
Speaker 1: emotional like poll isn't there as much. So I think
Speaker 1: that that's so amazing that families across the country have
Speaker 1: that opportunity because everyone prepares you for the birth. But
Speaker 1: that to me was I mean, it wasn't easy, but
Speaker 1: I definitely got an epidural, but that quick. It's quick,
Speaker 1: and it's like most of the times you're surrounded by doctors,
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, but then you go home
Speaker 1: and you're alone.
Speaker 2: I know, there's no you. You really just have like
Speaker 2: two of it. That was the other thing as we noticed, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: at the hospital, you have to watch a video on
Speaker 2: putting your kid in a car seat and shaking baby syndrome,
Speaker 2: and that's it. And we were like, what about videos
Speaker 2: that can help you actually get through these next few
Speaker 2: months for sleeping and feeding and connecting and touch and
Speaker 2: all of the things that could be so helpful, including
Speaker 2: things that can minimize chances of postpartum depression. And it
Speaker 2: all happens in these settings, but there aren't a lot
Speaker 2: of resources for it. So that was really fun. And
Speaker 2: also there's so much There are so many hospitals and
Speaker 2: there are so many places across the country that don't
Speaker 2: have like in where we started was New York City
Speaker 2: and we're in LA Obviously those are places that have
Speaker 2: a lot of resources and a lot of practitioners, but
Speaker 2: most places in the country there's such a shortage. So
Speaker 2: anything that you can do, I mean, we even made
Speaker 2: well Child Visit videos to help families and also the
Speaker 2: care providers, like what are the questions it might come up?
Speaker 2: What are some things that you can find out about
Speaker 2: that will save you the time and the visit, because
Speaker 2: for the majority of the country, it's not like you
Speaker 2: can just grab a psychologist on the way.
Speaker 1: And then also it's you know, it's funny because for me,
Speaker 1: my my biggest challenge after having three kids was zero
Speaker 1: to one. I was so anxious. The jump from one
Speaker 1: to two was so much easier for me, not physically,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot more to do, and you're
Speaker 1: you know, you survived. I survived the first one and
Speaker 1: the anxiety I had with zero to one. I didn't
Speaker 1: have postpartum depression, but I did have postpartum anxiety, which
Speaker 1: you know, and it was so difficult.
Speaker 2: For me to.
Speaker 1: Just let him sort of be and I was always
Speaker 1: worried about something happening to him or to me or
Speaker 1: to you know, and it consumed me. So then when
Speaker 1: I knew he's going to eat, he going to sleep,
Speaker 1: or he's never going to sleep, which is kind of
Speaker 1: what happened, you know, at once I could accept that
Speaker 1: and I knew sort of I had like a little
Speaker 1: bit of a roadmap as to what it was going
Speaker 1: to look like with two and three, even though they're
Speaker 1: all different and they're different people, it was so much easier.
Speaker 1: It gave me comfort.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there everybody has like their
Speaker 2: different time in parenthood that's most challenging, and I feel
Speaker 2: like if you haven't had it, it's just that it
Speaker 2: hasn't come yet. It's kind of like when people talk
Speaker 2: about like, oh, two terrible twos or whatever, and you think, no,
Speaker 2: my two year old was not remotely pushing the limits
Speaker 2: or anything. But then really that's because it'll happen at three.
Speaker 2: It's not we're not skipping any of these.
Speaker 1: Steps, right, They all come when they come. What do
Speaker 1: you think, after like working with all these families, what
Speaker 1: have you noticed are the modern parenting challenges? Because I
Speaker 1: think to myself all the time my parents, I'm sure
Speaker 1: I thought it was really difficult raising us in our generation,
Speaker 1: But then I think with social media and and just
Speaker 1: as like all these things that are now at our kids' fingertips,
Speaker 1: it seems like it's way more complicated now to raise kids,
Speaker 1: even though I'm sure that our kids will feel.
Speaker 2: That it was so much easier right back.
Speaker 1: And so, what do you think are like the major
Speaker 1: modern parenting challenges for right now?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this parenting stress, which the Surge
Speaker 2: in general just wrote and advisory on, is a big
Speaker 2: challenge because we're expected to do more and we don't
Speaker 2: have more resources to do it. I think that's huge.
Speaker 2: And I have a sneaking suspicion in the service of
Speaker 2: wanting to be more emotionally available to our kids, we
Speaker 2: are really afraid of their feelings and so we do
Speaker 2: we like bend over backwards to try to make sure
Speaker 2: that we fix any feelings that are really hard. And
Speaker 2: that is just.
Speaker 1: We've talked about that exhaust to what I do well.
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's very natural, because you'd be such
Speaker 2: a beast if you didn't have you know, like, if
Speaker 2: you're just like I don't care if you're miserable. It's hard.
Speaker 2: It's your child. It's so hard. Although I have a
Speaker 2: harder time I think with other people's kids seeing them
Speaker 2: struggling than I do with my own kids, because at
Speaker 2: least I'm like, I know ultimately they're loved and they're safe,
Speaker 2: and this is a moment whereas somebody else's child, I
Speaker 2: feel a little bit. You know, It's like when you're
Speaker 2: taking care of somebody else's kid, you just get a
Speaker 2: little bit more worried. But I think that is a
Speaker 2: massive challenge, and it's because we feel parenting. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: we got so we felt so rightfully, like we didn't
Speaker 2: get enough maybe attention to feelings, and we just accidentally
Speaker 2: went too far probably and the burden is now on
Speaker 2: the parents today, right.
Speaker 1: I Actually last night at dinner, one of my kids
Speaker 1: was telling we do rose bud and thorn every night,
Speaker 1: and we also do a seed like what we're excited
Speaker 1: to learn. But his thorn was that his best friend
Speaker 1: said to him, you talk too fast, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to play with you anymore. And I could feel.
Speaker 2: I can feel you.
Speaker 1: I was, I was unwell, and Rob was looking at
Speaker 1: me across the table like scared the whole gust coming out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, I when my kid tells me that
Speaker 1: something has happened to them. I think I told I
Speaker 1: told this Stir on your podcast. Actually, so, when Ace
Speaker 1: was in preschool, there was a kid who was not
Speaker 1: letting him play basketball and said that he couldn't play
Speaker 1: because he didn't have the right shoes, I remember, And
Speaker 1: so I went up to him and I said, do
Speaker 1: you know what happens when you're unkind? And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: someone tells the teacher. And I said, oh my gosh, no,
Speaker 1: it's like way worse than that. Nobody will have you
Speaker 1: over for play dates because you're not kind. And then
Speaker 1: I looked at Ace and I said, an Ace, Blake
Speaker 1: Griffin is coming for dinner tonight. Mima. I don't know
Speaker 1: Blake Griffin. He's a clipper. He was a clipper at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I only know because I know the story
Speaker 2: of other world.
Speaker 1: So I don't know him. I don't he's never been
Speaker 1: to my home. But I just like, I completely had
Speaker 1: an out of body experience. I got into my car.
Speaker 1: I called Rob and I just said, I just I
Speaker 1: just got into it with a five year old, like
Speaker 1: what is going to happen to me? And then I
Speaker 1: really it laid that, like you know, I learned from that,
Speaker 1: I really did. As something comes.
Speaker 2: Over, you just get so protected.
Speaker 1: It's mentally ill and I'm in therapy. So what's wrong
Speaker 1: with me? And what do I do? Can you help?
Speaker 2: Oh? My god? I think I think that is a
Speaker 2: medication question. I think this has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: your parenting. You would do that probably in any situation.
Speaker 2: I would be a friend, and that is part of
Speaker 2: your charm. It's just that it's probably better with als
Speaker 2: or with.
Speaker 1: No one at all. I need a puzzle when I'm out.
Speaker 2: I think it's more like, don't try to take on everything.
Speaker 2: But I would say for the underage set, it's just
Speaker 2: it's not serving you or them or your kids. But
Speaker 2: it is very funny.
Speaker 1: So what it makes for great it's got our story
Speaker 1: on a podcast.
Speaker 2: And also your son just kind of like it's okay, mom.
Speaker 2: You know that he's like, they're gonna grow up and
Speaker 2: they're just gonna be like, please, don't piss off my mom.
Speaker 2: I assure you, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 1: What so what in those moments when a child shares
Speaker 1: because you want them to share things with you and
Speaker 1: you don't want them to get to the point where
Speaker 1: he's like I don't even want to tell you anything
Speaker 1: because you're gonna freak out.
Speaker 2: I think that's the most important point.
Speaker 1: So what's the best response when that happens, when a
Speaker 1: kid says, hey, you know this person was mean to
Speaker 1: me today, or just share something I know? The number
Speaker 1: one thing is you don't interview for pain, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't.
Speaker 2: So well, that's like that. That is so like don't
Speaker 2: start your you know, pick up with how did it
Speaker 2: go today? With so and so? Okay, But the other
Speaker 2: thing is, and it seems trite, and it is so
Speaker 2: life changing, is it? Whenever? Just promise yourself. This is
Speaker 2: all you have to do is promise yourself that when
Speaker 2: you hear a story, you will take a breath during
Speaker 2: and after that story before you react, just because it
Speaker 2: tells your body that you are not in danger. You
Speaker 2: do not need to go into fight mode. And that
Speaker 2: way you can hear the story, receive a story, and
Speaker 2: make it about how your kid feels instead of how
Speaker 2: you feel.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's what I was doing. Was actually incredibly selfish.
Speaker 2: No, it's not that it's selfish, it's just that it's natural.
Speaker 2: We all feel. Please, if you don't think that there
Speaker 2: have been times when I'm like, my entire goal this
Speaker 2: year is to make sure. I mean, I won't even
Speaker 2: say it, but I think it's very natural.
Speaker 1: So what is the response when I can kid, When
Speaker 1: when your child tells you that something on upsetting happened
Speaker 1: to them, what is the like, what is the response,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry that happened.
Speaker 2: No, I would take a breath, very committed to breathing, okay,
Speaker 2: and then after you've taken a breath, refocus the spotlight
Speaker 2: on your child and just say, so, how did it
Speaker 2: feel like? Or you can say I'm so glad you
Speaker 2: told me that. Like, I really like knowing these things.
Speaker 2: I know I can't do anything about it, but is
Speaker 2: there anything that.
Speaker 1: I can I can't do something right because well last
Speaker 1: night at dinner, I did say, well, you can't.
Speaker 2: Fix his fee. I guess you couldn't fix the pain.
Speaker 1: No, I can't. And I did say to Gus. We
Speaker 1: talked about it again when I was putting him to bed,
Speaker 1: because that takes hours upon hours, and he was telling
Speaker 1: me everything that he was feeling that night and last night,
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, only spend time with friends
Speaker 1: are supposed to make you feel good. So if a
Speaker 1: friend is making you feel good, it's okay to take
Speaker 1: a break. Is that okay?
Speaker 2: Of course, okay, of course that's okay. I think the
Speaker 2: key is.
Speaker 1: Like it's totally okay. But here's what I would do now.
Speaker 2: First of all, again, I just want to say it's
Speaker 2: easier for me because I'm not in the emotions of it,
Speaker 2: Like I know what it's like.
Speaker 1: But you have two children and you're very appropriate.
Speaker 2: No, but there are definitely times when I'm like, you
Speaker 2: don't want to peak in high school? You know, like
Speaker 2: I say small, little obnoxious things about other people Like
Speaker 2: that is definitely and maybe I would even go as
Speaker 2: far as occasionally saying, like, you know, beyond you don't
Speaker 2: want to peak in high school, I might even predict
Speaker 2: what that person's future looks like, Like there are moments
Speaker 2: when I'm not proud of myself. You want to think
Speaker 2: that more often than not, you have a reaction that's
Speaker 2: about them and not you, kind of getting aroused and angered.
Speaker 2: But sometimes you're going to and I think that's just like, whatever,
Speaker 2: give ourselves a break. It's really hard to watch somebody
Speaker 2: be cruel to your child. That's just a hard thing
Speaker 2: you did to teach.
Speaker 1: Me that one of the most important things you can
Speaker 1: do as a parent is to repair. Can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: So when you make a mistake, which you will constantly,
Speaker 2: thankfully we get to make you made a mistake today.
Speaker 2: Repair is just reconnecting. So first you have to do
Speaker 2: that with yourself. So like if you screw up and
Speaker 2: you are mad at yourself, a really important practice is
Speaker 2: to say, like, hold on a second, I I made
Speaker 2: a mistake. The world still goes on, the the sun
Speaker 2: is still shining, Like this is okay. I don't want
Speaker 2: to do it again in this way. So here's what
Speaker 2: I'm going to do next time. But I'm I'm also
Speaker 2: modeling that I can make mistakes and that it's not
Speaker 2: the end of the world, and that I can forgive myself.
Speaker 2: So you have to be able to repair with yourself
Speaker 2: in order to repair with your kids. And then when
Speaker 2: you have like discord with your kids or a moment
Speaker 2: where you just feel like I lost my pool or whatever,
Speaker 2: then finding a moment to reconnect. It doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be an apology, like sometimes it's not appropriate to apologize.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's more like it's a small thing, but you
Speaker 2: just want to get back to giggling together or knowing
Speaker 2: that you've got each other and that everything's okay between you.
Speaker 2: And it can be silent, it can be like sitting
Speaker 2: closer together and watching something funny. It doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be like, hey, remember earlier when I blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's also important. A lot of times kids don't care,
Speaker 2: and so you need to watch how they're feeling about something.
Speaker 2: My guess is that when you kind of snap about something,
Speaker 2: it's so not making your kids question whether or not
Speaker 2: you love them that you come right back and everybody's
Speaker 2: like you're just a nut and we move on. That
Speaker 2: is true, and so, but I.
Speaker 1: Do have kids that are hyper vigilant and sensitive. So
Speaker 1: if I am feeling cranky or if I'm having a
Speaker 1: bad day, they're noticing where some other kids might be like,
Speaker 1: you know, just sort of like, oh, that's mom just
Speaker 1: like doing her own thing. And so I have to say, like,
Speaker 1: you know, this has nothing to do with you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: burnt the broccoli, or I stub my toe or I
Speaker 1: actually every time I cry, like if I cry about something,
Speaker 1: if like Rob and I are in an argument and
Speaker 1: I'm like I cry all the time, but I'll always
Speaker 1: say like, oh, I just stubbed my toe. So now
Speaker 1: my kids are like, we know you don't stub your toe, right.
Speaker 2: I think that what you're talking about is like naming
Speaker 2: your affective state. And it's such a gift to give
Speaker 2: to your kids because a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't want our kids to know that we're experiencing
Speaker 2: feelings and so we don't mention it. But then we're
Speaker 2: walking around like clenched or you know, something's going on.
Speaker 2: So it's it's better when you can to just say
Speaker 2: I am having a rough day. It has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with you. It's just I'm letting you know. Because
Speaker 2: I might be a little snippy and I love you,
Speaker 2: I also know how to take care of myself. So
Speaker 2: I'm going to go take a walk around the block
Speaker 2: because i need to clear my head and breathe some
Speaker 2: nice air and then I'll be back.
Speaker 1: I asked Rob in our marriage, like I asked him
Speaker 1: to do that. If he comes home from work and
Speaker 1: he's had a really better like go for a run, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I say to him like I just just tell me,
Speaker 1: just say like, hey, I had a really bad day
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go work out or I had
Speaker 1: a really bad date. It has nothing to do with you, yeah,
Speaker 1: because or else you're just guessing. And I did that
Speaker 1: a lot as a kid.
Speaker 2: It's scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I really am. That is one thing
Speaker 1: I'm super conscious about is always saying to them like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent right, I'm super cranky, I did
Speaker 1: not sleep, I'm tired or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, and you're doing you're taking away that like
Speaker 2: a child's imagination is almost always going to think of
Speaker 2: something worse than the truth.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's such a gift to be able to say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I've had a terrible day. I'm going to zone out
Speaker 2: and watch TV, or I'm going to go work out,
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a bath or whatever it is
Speaker 2: that makes you feel better. And also it has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with you, and there's nothing that you can.
Speaker 1: Do to make it better. It's just what it's just
Speaker 1: my wave to ride.
Speaker 2: And that's also the guessing like that you're talking about
Speaker 2: from your childhood. Then you have to walk on eggshells
Speaker 2: and kind of wonder, and then you might have to
Speaker 2: perform to get the mood that you're looking for. Exactly
Speaker 2: and it feels like it's on you right. Sorry to
Speaker 2: the Winklers if that feels disrespectful suggesting.
Speaker 1: We're very open on what in the Winkler We are
Speaker 1: very we dig deep over here.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Social media is taking over our life in a crazy way.
Speaker 2: And I mean I could watch your stories for days.
Speaker 1: My stories are amazing, they are, and I love Instagram
Speaker 1: for that reason. I have fun with my stories. I mean,
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. But I'm also private and I'm not
Speaker 1: you know, but I'm also forty four, yes, and I
Speaker 1: have a hard time putting down my phone. So you know,
Speaker 1: Ace is like one of the only kids in his class,
Speaker 1: he's in seventh grade that doesn't have social media, and
Speaker 1: he asks me about it all the time. And I'm
Speaker 1: getting to the point, you know, what is this like?
Speaker 1: What is there like a roadmap to this, because it
Speaker 1: just feels like uncharted territory, and not even just social media,
Speaker 1: but technology like iPads I think are like crack.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm horrible. I think, first of all, there isn't
Speaker 2: a roadmap, and even those who claim to have a roadmap,
Speaker 2: it's not rooted in any certainty. It's sort of a
Speaker 2: guess my guess is that the way the brain develops,
Speaker 2: you want to be cooked longer. But also we want
Speaker 2: to think about anything that we do offer. Like let's
Speaker 2: say you do decide to say you can try starting
Speaker 2: with social media, which delaying as long as you can
Speaker 2: is going to be ideal. That it's not like, Okay,
Speaker 2: now the genie's out of the bottle and that's it.
Speaker 2: You can say I made a terrible mistake. I can
Speaker 2: see that it's not good for you, and it's my
Speaker 2: job to take it away right now while we figure
Speaker 2: out a better plan or to minimize it. Or we
Speaker 2: can start with you can use it on my phone
Speaker 2: for five minutes. I mean, that's a separate thing, just
Speaker 2: because I personally don't like my kids to be near
Speaker 2: my phone. I just it's my private phone, and also
Speaker 2: I have clients and I just don't need But there
Speaker 2: are many ways to do baby steps and say like
Speaker 2: let's see how you do, let's see how this feels
Speaker 2: for you, and I'm going to make some agreements with you,
Speaker 2: and then we're going to take it away if it's
Speaker 2: not working. And I don't think you should do that yet.
Speaker 2: I think you have time to just keep delaying but
Speaker 2: when you do, I just feel like I see so
Speaker 2: many parents feel trapped, like, well, it's too late, and
Speaker 2: unless they're paying their bills and working their jobs, it's
Speaker 2: never too late. And as long as you have compassion
Speaker 2: when you say it, like I know this is going
Speaker 2: to be really a bummer because you loved this, but
Speaker 2: it's not going well. And my job is to be
Speaker 2: able to say when you can't, this isn't good for you.
Speaker 2: And so I think there are definitely steps. Delaying is
Speaker 2: the first one, and the second one is supporting, mentoring,
Speaker 2: monitoring to a certain extent, because they can't their brains
Speaker 2: aren't in any way, shape or form able to self
Speaker 2: regulate around this. And I have heard from some people like,
Speaker 2: and I'm not an extremist, I would also say like,
Speaker 2: I have a friend who has a ninth grader who
Speaker 2: has social media, and she's totally thriving, and she's super
Speaker 2: social and in real life, and she is taking her
Speaker 2: phone away at night and she's not using it at
Speaker 2: the dinner table, and the kid is doing great. So
Speaker 2: when her mom asked should I remove social media from
Speaker 2: her life? I was like, I think you've already removed it.
Speaker 2: During the risky times and she's thriving, Whereas someone else
Speaker 2: might say that to me, and I would ask like, well,
Speaker 2: how's your kid doing in their friendships and what are
Speaker 2: they feeling about their body image and what's going on
Speaker 2: in their sleep and all those things, And if the
Speaker 2: answers are more bleak, I would say they are not
Speaker 2: candidates for this.
Speaker 1: So it really is a kid by kid it is.
Speaker 2: There's just never one size fits all. I know that
Speaker 2: everybody likes that because it's more comfortable and comforting, but
Speaker 2: each of your kid kids are going to be different.
Speaker 2: It's never good for younger kids. It's never you know,
Speaker 2: it's always good to delay. But I just think there
Speaker 2: are going to be some who shouldn't have it, like
Speaker 2: they just are not candidates for it at all. Ever,
Speaker 2: and somewhere when they get to a certain age, it's
Speaker 2: probably really fun.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, that's the question. And I feel like
Speaker 1: I definitely do. I know my kids, so I all
Speaker 1: of them, you know, and I know, and I'm so
Speaker 1: happy that he has a phone. It's changed art life.
Speaker 1: Like you know, if he where he is, where he
Speaker 1: if he wants to be picked up, I track him,
Speaker 1: you know, all the things but it is also scary
Speaker 1: that like some a stranger could reach out to your kid,
Speaker 1: and you know, you hear these stories and it just
Speaker 1: feels so big that I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1: And I and A said to me the other day, like,
Speaker 1: you say no more than any of my friend's parents,
Speaker 1: And I almost felt I almost felt I felt like embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, God, am I like And then I,
Speaker 1: you know, because I have my own stuff, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: is he going to be included? And is he gonna
Speaker 1: But then I thought to myself, I wonder if part
Speaker 1: of him even feels maybe like more contained. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I'm making the hard decisions for him.
Speaker 2: One of the most one of the biggest predictors of anxiety,
Speaker 2: other than like heritability of anxiety and chaos in general,
Speaker 2: is permissiveness. So it's so scary when you're kind of
Speaker 2: the leader of the house and you're wishy washy about
Speaker 2: these things and kind of letting the kids decide on
Speaker 2: like when they're ready for everything. So I think the
Speaker 2: idea of collaborating with kids and hearing from them but
Speaker 2: then making the final decision is actually quite comforting. So
Speaker 2: even if he hates it, he really like benefits from it.
Speaker 1: It's like comfortable. Yeah, what this might be like a
Speaker 1: very hard question to answer because I know you cover
Speaker 1: so many topics, but what episode or topic has resonated
Speaker 1: most deeply with your listeners on your podcast? Like what
Speaker 1: is the what is the topic that you get asked
Speaker 1: most about? Is there is there one that you can
Speaker 1: think of?
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't even believe this, but I think
Speaker 2: disciplines still just really comes up all the time. And
Speaker 2: I mean from whether we're talking about toddlers or teenagers,
Speaker 2: just kind of like the the the trickiness of like
Speaker 2: having a close connected relationship and having boundaries and limits
Speaker 2: that upset your kids or which ones are appropriate or
Speaker 2: how do you do that? I think that really is
Speaker 2: just a constant source of tension. And probably no, that's
Speaker 2: it the consequences.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because it's the idea is that you the
Speaker 1: consequence makes sense and aligns with whatever the behavior was.
Speaker 1: So it's like this morning, for instance, one of my
Speaker 1: kids woke up really early to find Buddy the Elf,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's too early.
Speaker 2: Whose Buddy the Elf?
Speaker 1: The elf on the show? I don't know why I
Speaker 1: did this, but I don't know why I did this.
Speaker 1: I have two I have I have Buddy and Astro.
Speaker 1: I can't even talk about it. And literally, this is
Speaker 1: what's so crazy. There's a mom in Jules's class that
Speaker 1: I love. Actually she's in Gus's class. Her nephew is
Speaker 1: in Jules's class. And I just actually see what she
Speaker 1: posts on Instagram and then I copy it and I
Speaker 1: just do the exact thing the next night. So she
Speaker 1: did sprinkles in the I don't even know with the elves,
Speaker 1: and I did it whatever. Anyways, I totally ruined it.
Speaker 1: Apparently my sink drips and so the sprinkles were submerged
Speaker 1: in water. The tape all the sprinkles that, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was horrible. Anyways, I'm a failure at the elf. But
Speaker 1: he wanted to get up and see the elf, and
Speaker 1: I was like, it's not time to get up. I
Speaker 1: was exhausted. Sleep is the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Was like, if you don't, if you wake me up
Speaker 1: one more time, you are going to lose your iPad
Speaker 1: this weekend, because they get ipout on the weekend. I realized, like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense. Wasn't a thing.
Speaker 1: It was also six, but it's late start on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: so I really wanted to sleep till seven. But it's
Speaker 1: hard to figure out. I feel like I don't I
Speaker 1: don't give my kids enough punishments or consequence. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's saying because I can't figure out all
Speaker 1: the time, Like what what called it makes sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in that case, to me, it's like
Speaker 2: there won't be elf on the shelf. Right, I said that,
Speaker 2: and that's it.
Speaker 1: The elf was already suspended from the light in the kitchen,
Speaker 1: wrapped in tinfoil, looking like they were on the moon. Well,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't really the next day, right, like I think.
Speaker 2: The elf isn't going to be able to come if
Speaker 2: you get up too early or whatever. But I also,
Speaker 2: as a side note, it's very exciting, like it's an
Speaker 2: exciting time, So it makes sense. So I would also say,
Speaker 2: I totally get why you're so excited, and you can
Speaker 2: stare at that elf and look for that elf, but
Speaker 2: not not until not with me, and not you can
Speaker 2: do it, but you have to let Yeah, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to sleep. But the other thing is that you
Speaker 2: don't need them to suffer because of the consequences. Like,
Speaker 2: I think part of why we're trying to figure out
Speaker 2: a consequence that makes sense and then we think it
Speaker 2: doesn't work is because we're like looking for them to say, like, oh,
Speaker 2: now I understand that I did something wrong, and therefore.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna yeah, Like is that even gonna right?
Speaker 2: That's not. It's more like learning cause and effect and
Speaker 2: nothing more right, but nobody ever, Like behavior change doesn't
Speaker 2: occur from punishment anyway, but moving through the world occurs
Speaker 2: better when you know that there are consequences to your actions.
Speaker 2: So if they're arbitrary, you don't learn that.
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes a lot of sense. One more thing
Speaker 1: before we do this really fun game where it's like
Speaker 1: a lightning round. I'm super fired up.
Speaker 2: I'm not such a slow talking and moving person. We'll
Speaker 2: make it work, Okay, I actually know this about you.
Speaker 2: What I'm something I'm struggling with is the sibling Oh
Speaker 2: that was the other thing I forgot to say, discipline
Speaker 2: and siblings.
Speaker 1: The sibling thing. There you go, it's it's really it's
Speaker 1: really like I'll be like, do you guys know how
Speaker 1: lucky you are to have each other? And they're looking
Speaker 1: at me like, no, we don't. We just do have
Speaker 1: each other, right, And I often think, what is I
Speaker 1: need to understand what is healthy sibling rivalry and cattiness
Speaker 1: and fighting and all that stuff, and like, what is
Speaker 1: what is when I need to step in? I mean
Speaker 1: obviously when it gets physical, but I mean they don't
Speaker 1: really get physical. I have like they're not like they're
Speaker 1: not like hugely physical kids. They're like a little bit
Speaker 1: ninnies like me.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't think they're very strong. You
Speaker 2: don't need to jump in as much as you think
Speaker 2: you do. That's the first thing.
Speaker 1: I just can't hear it all day.
Speaker 2: Well, so that's a separate thing, because the viciousness of
Speaker 2: siblings is pretty intense. And I what I would say
Speaker 2: across the board is you can't really believe that this
Speaker 2: is okay except it is. And I'm not saying you
Speaker 2: should be like as get as mean as you want
Speaker 2: because this is normative, but knowing in your heart, like, okay,
Speaker 2: they are not going to grow up and hate each
Speaker 2: other because of these vicious moments. They much more likely
Speaker 2: will struggle. If you intervene all the time and are
Speaker 2: sort of you want to be a witness not a judge,
Speaker 2: and it's really hard not to judge because it's so
Speaker 2: you know, we identify with one of the kids in
Speaker 2: the situation, and then we're just like, I'm going to
Speaker 2: just take you down the other kid. But if you
Speaker 2: can just not intervene as often as possible, but then
Speaker 2: coach when you intervene, what does that look like? Well,
Speaker 2: for one thing, I would say to them, Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: if you're going to fight, since I'm going to have
Speaker 2: to do something about it. If I hear this, I
Speaker 2: suggest you get smarter about it, like do it away
Speaker 2: from me, do it in the other room, use a
Speaker 2: whispering voice, like be intentional and manipulative and you're fighting.
Speaker 2: This is ridiculous because of course you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: say something if they're doing it in your face.
Speaker 1: So they always say that I that the younger one
Speaker 1: gets away with everything because he will have like a
Speaker 1: level ten tantrum, right, which is something you know I have.
Speaker 1: I never had a kid until my youngest that would
Speaker 1: really just give it their all, like I could always
Speaker 1: rein it in, I could always I could always reach them.
Speaker 1: He will just go and he doesn't care where he
Speaker 1: is and he's big, so I can't lift him up
Speaker 1: now and be like, excuse me, I need to remove
Speaker 1: you from the situation. So it's not that i'm always
Speaker 1: but he's also the youngest. He's also seven, so it's
Speaker 1: like a big difference between you know, thirteen and nine.
Speaker 2: But you don't want the older ones to resent him, no,
Speaker 2: I do not, so also believing that like when he
Speaker 2: goes there, he'll come out right, it just might take
Speaker 2: a really long time. Is so you know, it's like
Speaker 2: what can you tolerate? But you definitely don't need to
Speaker 2: intervene as much as you do for sure. I don't
Speaker 2: even know how much you intervene, but I mean, and.
Speaker 1: It's just like they have to decide on what show
Speaker 1: to watch together, which is hard because that is hard
Speaker 1: seven to thirteen. But they don't have iPads during the week,
Speaker 1: and we have a TV in our room and then
Speaker 1: we have a TV in the living room, so they
Speaker 1: have to like so it's usually I have nowhere to
Speaker 1: go in my house. I'll literally sit in my closet
Speaker 1: or on the bathroom floor because one of them is
Speaker 1: in my room, one of two of them are in
Speaker 1: the living room. And then I just I'm like, where
Speaker 1: do I go.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you can, but again it's like what
Speaker 2: can you tolerate? But you can just decide that you
Speaker 2: sit with them and you make a calendar and on
Speaker 2: this this is the day of the week that Gus chooses,
Speaker 2: This is the day of the week the Jewels chooses. Like,
Speaker 2: you can do that. We do that with songs in
Speaker 2: the car, so you can do it with TV shows
Speaker 2: and then just I mean it's hard because you can't
Speaker 2: do that with everything. There's endless stage difference, you know,
Speaker 2: like they don't always have to like it. I mean,
Speaker 2: let me tell you, don't you remember from childhood, like
Speaker 2: there just weren't a lot of options.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: You don't.
Speaker 1: Don't I had lots of options as a child. I think,
Speaker 1: lots of rooms to go into. It's a very different
Speaker 1: program over at my house.
Speaker 2: You know what, though, what you don't know is how
Speaker 2: awesome it is that your kids don't have they have
Speaker 2: to figure out how to work together because that is
Speaker 2: what builds closeness. And so they don't have to like
Speaker 2: the TV show that they're watching. That's the other thing
Speaker 2: is like.
Speaker 1: And they can also do something else and they.
Speaker 2: Can opt out, so if you choose what you know
Speaker 2: and you can say that to them, you can opt out.
Speaker 2: But someone's not going to be happy. That is just
Speaker 2: a given. And I need to be.
Speaker 1: Happy the most important person.
Speaker 2: So I would like you guys to be or you
Speaker 2: can say we don't have to watch TV at all
Speaker 2: during the week, like I want. I'm here for you guys,
Speaker 2: I'm on your team. I want there to be this option.
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to listen to this all day.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just want to do this fun lightning round
Speaker 1: really quickly because we're running out of time because it
Speaker 1: talks slowly. No, you're amazing, but like it's my podcast
Speaker 1: is a little bit short. Maybe if they renew me,
Speaker 1: it'll get longer. Okay, So what is the most overrated
Speaker 1: piece of parenting advice you've heard?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: God, the most overrated parenting advice? Have you ever seen
Speaker 2: a slower lightning round? No?
Speaker 1: Never, You're gonna have to do better. Run question number one. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go to the next one. What is an underutilized
Speaker 1: parenting tool more people should know about?
Speaker 2: Zipping it? Zipping It?
Speaker 1: Name one must read book.
Speaker 2: For parents, The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential guide
Speaker 2: to raise a good humor effect.
Speaker 1: Share your favorite parenting moment.
Speaker 2: My favorite parenting moment is makes me look like the worst,
Speaker 2: But no, can I tell you too?
Speaker 1: May be so fast I want to.
Speaker 2: The first one was when my youngest was seven and
Speaker 2: my oldest was ten. And my oldest and I are
Speaker 2: like boppier as people, like if we had a tail,
Speaker 2: it'd be wagging, and my younger one's more like a cat.
Speaker 2: And I looked at her in the dinner and I said, Vivian,
Speaker 2: why aren't you happy? And she said, mom, just because
Speaker 2: I'm not smiling doesn't mean I'm not happy. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh right. As a psychologist, this could be
Speaker 2: something I know, but as a mother I did not,
Speaker 2: And I was so excited. I was like, thank you
Speaker 2: for knowing who you are and reminding me that I
Speaker 2: need to know who you are.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: And the other one is that I got into a
Speaker 2: fight with my oldest very recently. And we do not
Speaker 2: fight very much like we might argue about a song
Speaker 2: in the car bicker, but I'm not like a fighter,
Speaker 2: and she is just about to be eighteen, and I
Speaker 2: was so mean, and it was because of a sibling
Speaker 2: I did not like I just was set off by
Speaker 2: something between the kids, and I was really mean, and
Speaker 2: I was uncharacteristically mean and shamed. I just like went
Speaker 2: into my room and kind of just sat there, like
Speaker 2: I'm a failure as of both a mother and in
Speaker 2: my job, and I should just call it. Also, I
Speaker 2: thought I ruined her future. And Colin said to me
Speaker 2: because I called him like sabbing my fiance, and I said,
Speaker 2: I've done it. I'm like the worst. And he said,
Speaker 2: what would you tell a client? And I said, you
Speaker 2: mean the whole repair thing. It's nonsense, Like this is
Speaker 2: all nonsense, and and I just like I went too far.
Speaker 2: And then she came into my room like ten minutes later,
Speaker 2: and she said, I'm pretty sure by now you want
Speaker 2: to repair, right, And I said I do. I'm so sorry,
Speaker 2: and she's like it's okay. I love you and I
Speaker 2: said I love you too, and then she started talking
Speaker 2: about something completely off topic that was like it just
Speaker 2: indicated to me that our relationship was actually like strong,
Speaker 2: it was strong, and that the science isn't a lie,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I was like, oh, I'm not full
Speaker 2: of it. I don't have to stop now. And I
Speaker 2: didn't ruin everything I love.
Speaker 1: I love both of those. What is the most creative
Speaker 1: bedtime delay tactic you've encountered?
Speaker 2: I think just a class really serious question about God
Speaker 2: or or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said to me last night, Why would God because.
Speaker 2: The internet was out? Yeah, classic God.
Speaker 1: And so we weren't able to listen to his meditation
Speaker 1: sure that he needs. And it was a real it
Speaker 1: was a real problem. And he said, why would God
Speaker 1: do bad things? And I said, like what I was thinking,
Speaker 1: like war, death, make the internet not work when he
Speaker 1: knows that I need a meditation. Oh, I said, God's
Speaker 1: really busy right now working on some other things.
Speaker 2: How wonderful that that's like the worst thing he got.
Speaker 1: I said to him, maybe this is a lesson because
Speaker 1: we need to learn how to go to bed without meditations. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I found it on my phone, so it all works
Speaker 1: out because I'm pathetic. What would you say, is your
Speaker 1: parenting superpower? I know what it is you do. What
Speaker 1: is it You've created like this incredible, loving safe household
Speaker 1: where Penelope can come and say to you, let's repair
Speaker 1: and not even it doesn't even and like, yes, you
Speaker 1: went too far, but it doesn't even phase her because
Speaker 1: she just like moved on and was talking about something else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think my parenting superpower might just
Speaker 2: be like I'm a good hang with them, like I
Speaker 2: just want to hang out for anyone, to be honest.
Speaker 1: What questions would your teenagers definitely ask if they were
Speaker 1: conducting this interview.
Speaker 2: I don't think they would be interested in any way,
Speaker 2: shape or form in interviewing me.
Speaker 1: What is the most surprising phrase you've caught yourself saying
Speaker 1: as a parent?
Speaker 2: I think that I often say the most annoying phrase,
Speaker 2: which is what's your plan? What's your plan? And my
Speaker 2: kids are like, our plan is too like it's not
Speaker 2: saying I would.
Speaker 1: I say that every day? And now my kids also
Speaker 1: say what is our plan? Every day?
Speaker 2: Mine don't think that it's productive, and it really like
Speaker 2: it is so annoying to them because but then I
Speaker 2: say it anyway, I can't help it.
Speaker 1: You did great on the lightning round except for the
Speaker 1: first one. Would you like anymore? We're done?
Speaker 2: No? I just the worst parenting advice is probably to
Speaker 2: do anything that is prescriptive, because it just doesn't work that.
Speaker 1: Way unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 2: Don't do it unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 1: I'll work for you now, I just won't go get
Speaker 1: my master's. Thank you for listening to What in the Winkler.
Speaker 1: Make sure to tell a friend thank you, Lisa