1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Make financial progress with into It Credit Karma. It's straightforward, 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: stress free and personalize for your financial journey. Download the 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: app to get started Credit Karma Start making Progress today. 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is Next Question. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Wow twenty twenty four. What a year it's been. It's 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: wrapping up and so is this podcast. At least this 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: season of Next Question. To mark the end of this road, 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: we gathered some of the brightest observers of politics, from 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: journalists to consultants, from sociologists to former ambassadors, and looking 10 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: back on all the conversations I had, there is a 11 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: clear through line. We're in for an unpredictable, possibly perilous, 12 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: and democracy shaking four years. There are some bright spots though, 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: some ways forward, and we'll get to that too, But 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: first let's revisit early November twenty twenty four, the day 15 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: after Donald Trump was elected for a second time. I 16 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: spoke with my good friend and former podcast buddy Brian Goldsmith. 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: With Kamala Harris's defeat fresh on our minds, we tried 18 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: to make sense of exactly. 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: What happened. Well, we may have overcomplicated this election. You 20 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: had an incumbent president with a forty percent approval rating. 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: You had sixty five seventy percent of the country saying 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: we're on the wrong track. Stuff costs about twenty percent 23 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: more than it did before COVID, and people were broadly 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: dissatisfied with the status quo and the party in power, 25 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: so they voted for the out party. Any political scientist 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: would tell you that that is the most normal thing 27 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: in the world. But of course Donald Trump is the 28 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: least normal candidate, imaginable and given and all of the 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: as he would say, huge baggage that he's bringing into 30 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: this race and now into the White House. I think 31 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: a lot of Democrats, including me, thought this time would 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: be different, but it wasn't. 33 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that a lot of pundits and political 34 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: experts such as yourself, Ryan thought that again his lunacy 35 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: would outweigh people's pain at the pump and the grocery store, etc. 36 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: Well, we thought a couple of things. We thought the 37 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: load was just too much for voters to bear at 38 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: a certain point, the load of Trump right, all his problems. 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: You know. 40 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: We saw a version of this in North Carolina, where 41 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: people wanted to vote for change. The state voted Republican 42 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: for president, and yet they elected the Democrat Josh Stein 43 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: as governor by a pretty big margin because well, I. 44 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: Mean, in fairness that his opponent was insane. If Mark Robinson, 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: if hadn't been revealed that he was called himself a 46 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: black hitler and liked to watch transgender people have sex, 47 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: you know, that was part of his choice in pornography. 48 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: Well that's just an example of the load is too 49 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: much to bear. So the load was too much for 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: voters to bear with Mark Robinson. I think democrats thought, 51 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: just as Mark Robinson was ultimately rendered unelectable based on 52 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: his problems, Donald Trump would be rendered unelectable based on 53 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: his problems. And yeah, he didn't call himself a black Nazi, 54 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: but he did try to overturn a free and fair 55 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: election and instigate a violent insurrection. So you know, Potato, Patato. 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: Well he's done a lot more than just that massive thing. 57 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: I mean, if you just look at the last ten 58 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: days of the campaign, and we've talked about this, Brian, 59 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: it seemed he was making no effort, as Maureen Dowd 60 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: wrote her Nerd column, to expand his base, to widen 61 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: the net, to get any voter he could, and he 62 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: just drilled down on this sort of obnoxious browie. I 63 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: can say anything and there are no repercussions. Unhinged kind 64 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: of weird behavior from filating. I never knew that was 65 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: the verb. By the way, I learned something this week 66 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: filating a microphone. And you know, making all these disgusting, 67 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: gross comments called us. 68 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: Should be shot, saying that his opponent should be arrested. 69 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Nancy Pelosi is a bitch, Kamala is trash, 70 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, et cetera, et cetera. 71 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and more seriously, you know, promising all sorts of 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: illegal actions as president. And so you know, to step 73 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: back to answer your question. Yeah, we thought, despite broad 74 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: dissatisfaction with the direction of the country, that Harris had 75 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: run a pretty good campaign. She tried to position herself 76 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: as a change candidate. She closed some of the gap, 77 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: a lot of the gap on handling the economy, and that, 78 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 2: just as in twenty twenty two, Democrats would overperform because 79 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: of the Trump factor. And what I think we know 80 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: pretty definitively now is that Trump is a unique political 81 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: animal who is kind of untouchable to his supporters no 82 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: matter what he says or does and brings out a 83 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: pretty big coalition to the polls. 84 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 4: No matter what. 85 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: Now, his coalition this time is actually pretty different than 86 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: his coalition in twenty sixteen. And we'll get into all 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: of that. But to your original point, it was a 88 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: broad based victory in the Swing States. It was a 89 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: series of narrow victories, consistent victories across the Swing states. 90 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: But he wasn't winning the Swing States by five or 91 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: ten points. He was winning them by one or two points. 92 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: He had bigger gains in places where the campaign wasn't 93 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: actually being fought between Harris and Trump on the airwaves, 94 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 2: but the whole country did seem to move in his direction. 95 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: A unique political animal. Wow, that's really an understatement. It 96 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: seemed to me that change beat out any personality issues 97 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: Trump might have exhibited. His fans just didn't care. And 98 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: there's a certain authenticity to the man that seems to 99 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: be appealing to a lot of his supporters. I'll never 100 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: forget what he said when he was running the first time, 101 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it wouldn't matter, 102 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: or something along those lines. I think it's really true. 103 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: Nothing he said, nothing he did or failed to do, 104 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: seemed to impact voters. They just love the guy and 105 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: some of those coalitions Brian mentioned well, Trump did increase 106 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: his support among black and Latino men, young men, and 107 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: with urban and world voters. Perhaps no issue other than 108 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: inflation loomed larger in this election than immigration and Trump's 109 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: vision on how to handle the border crisis. I spoke 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: to MSNBC's Jen Soak about how we got to the 111 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: point where mass deportations actually resonated with so many Americans. 112 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: So who's to blame? 113 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 5: Sort of everybody's at fault in Washington in some ways 114 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 5: because immigration is such a politically charged issue that people 115 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 5: are unwilling to compromise on it and have real negotiations 116 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 5: and discussions about it. I mean, Biden proposed an immigration 117 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 5: bill that included increased border security and a more humane 118 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 5: asylum processing the first day, right, Right, No one would 119 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 5: discuss it, No one would come to the White House 120 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 5: and meet with him about it. I'm not saying that 121 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 5: he's blameless. I'm just saying like that, right, tells you 122 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 5: a lot about politics. 123 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: Often brought that up during the campaign. 124 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, that is true. What is also true is that 125 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 5: because the COVID restrictions were in place for so long 126 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 5: that was in many ways artificially keeping the numbers lower 127 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 5: until they were flipped back. And then during that period 128 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 5: of time there was the negotiation with Mexico about re 129 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 5: implementing the Remain in Mexico program, which was there was 130 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 5: a lot of criticism of and a lot of people 131 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 5: who hated that, especially from the left. So I think 132 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 5: there was a delayed reaction to where clearly the country 133 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 5: was moving on immigration by I actually not really Joe Biden, 134 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 5: but a lot of people in the system and the 135 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 5: Democratic Party within the caucuses, and it wasn't very clear 136 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 5: to me that it had moved massively until that bipartisan 137 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 5: border bill. So yes, hindsight's always twenty twenty. But I 138 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 5: think looking now, there are aspects of how the party 139 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 5: should proceed from here, which I think this election should 140 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 5: be partly informative about, including acknowledging that the border and 141 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: having a secure border is a part of what the 142 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 5: Democratic Party messaging needs to be proactively, you know. 143 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 6: Yeah. 144 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: On the other hand, though, I think we should point 145 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: out how Donald Trump and the party exploited the immigration 146 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: issue with false information about the crimes that were committed 147 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: and really misrepresented the fact that actually immigrants commit fewer 148 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: crimes than native foreign citizens in this country. But I 149 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: think it just got so twisted and exploited, and the 150 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: fear and the fentanyl and all that stuff. I think 151 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: it got mixed up in one big bowl and made 152 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: people just terrified, and to the point where for a 153 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: lot of Americans, rounding up people and having a mass 154 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: deportation of thirteen million immigrants sounded like a good idea. 155 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: Jen brings up I think an excellent point that's undeniable 156 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: in this era of modern American politics, and that, of course, 157 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: is misinformation. Trump's communication strategy has relied heavily on stirring 158 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: up fear of immigrants, of trans people, of liberals, of 159 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: high inflation, even as our economy was recovering. How can 160 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 1: we actually break through the fear to have real conversations 161 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: with people we disagree with to come up with some 162 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: actual solutions. I spoke with Megan McCain about that, someone 163 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: who really doesn't see the world the same way I do. 164 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: But first I asked her about the stickiness of Trump's 165 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: message and why it was so effective. 166 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 7: One of the smartest things he's ever said is they're 167 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 7: not after me either, after you I'm just in the way, 168 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 7: And I think there's just a feeling of a lot 169 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 7: of people in the country who you know, are living 170 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 7: paycheck to paycheck, who have been screaming at the top 171 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 7: of their lungs that inflation's killing them. I have a 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 7: friend in my life who couldn't go on a summer 173 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 7: vacation this summer because of the amount of money she 174 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 7: was paying extra and gas and inflation and interest rates 175 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 7: on her I believe health insurance, can't remember a health 176 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 7: or car insurance, and her husband's gainfully employed. So I 177 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 7: think there was just a feeling that people are not 178 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 7: being heard, the needs of the lower middle class are 179 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 7: not being addressed, and that Trump continues to say I'm 180 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 7: an outsider, I am going to fight for you, and 181 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 7: people believed it. And I just think there's been a 182 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 7: lot of mistakes done along the way, but from Democrats 183 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 7: running for office and governing in a world they want 184 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 7: to see exist and not the one that actually exists. 185 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 7: So I think for a lot of people, as James 186 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 7: Carville says, it's just the economy stupid and they just 187 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 7: want change. I also think people are like very scared 188 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 7: about the border and very scared about a lot of 189 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 7: these culture war issues and just seeing a world changing 190 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 7: in a way that they don't like. And they've sort 191 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 7: of come to terms with the fact that the person 192 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 7: who's going to change it comes in this like really 193 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 7: really corrupt and character flawed package. 194 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: How can we have more conversations like this? How can 195 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: we have two people who disagree on a lot of issues, 196 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: and how we approach and tackle some of the thorniest 197 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: problems in our country and have civil, respectful conversations. How 198 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: can we encourage other people to do this? 199 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 7: Megan, I mean, I always lead with love in every 200 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 7: part of my life that I'm capable of. I'm not perfect, 201 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 7: and I certainly have still have a timber and I 202 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 7: can still be like whatever. But I think age and 203 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 7: having kids is I just want to have be in 204 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 7: a world that I want my kids to be in, 205 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 7: and this level of division is not tolerable or sustainable. 206 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 7: And I think I'm open to I will talk to 207 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 7: anyone as long as it's respectful. I will talk to 208 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 7: anyone on any side, as long as I know that 209 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 7: there's not going to be screaming and name calling or 210 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 7: anything like that. And I just think you can only 211 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 7: lead by example and control how you behave speak. And 212 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 7: I also think we should reward platforms that have bipartisan 213 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 7: conversations right in this moment. It's actually what I'm the 214 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 7: most interested in listening to across the board. I'm interested 215 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 7: in both sides coming together and discussing where we're at. 216 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 7: And I think the reflection of how bad the ratings 217 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 7: are on MSNBC and CNN right now show that maybe 218 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 7: there's an appetite for more interesting converse, nuanced conversations. 219 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: Tired of your credit score playing hard to get into it, 220 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: Credit Karma is the sidekick you never knew you needed. 221 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: With personalized tips and step by step tools, you'll go 222 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: from credit confusion to confidence in no time. Plus Credit 223 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: Karma tailor's credit card and loan recommendations to your financial profile, 224 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: making your financial choices feel like a perfect match. Download 225 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: the app to start turning your credit game around Karma 226 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: start making progress today. So will Trump deliver on his 227 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: campaign promises? I mean, he's already walked back as pledged 228 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: to lower prices at the grocery store. So will his 229 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: supporters ultimately feel betrayed? 230 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 8: Now? 231 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: By the way, they're not a monolith, as we mentioned 232 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: Trump voters represent a broad swath of the country. If 233 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: you're a regular listener of this podcast, you know I'm 234 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: a huge fan of Brian Stephenson. And to have some 235 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: of those nuanced conversations that Megan mentioned, you have to 236 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: be proximant. He would say, you have to get out 237 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: of your bubble and be exposed to people who live 238 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: differently and may think differently. I had a fascinating conversation 239 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: with someone who did just that. Sociologist Arley Hoakeshield, who 240 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: teaches at Berkeley, of all liberal places, spend time in 241 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: southern Louisiana for her first book, Strangers in their Own Land, 242 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: and then in one of the poorest counties in the 243 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: country in Kentucky for her second book, called Stolen Pride. 244 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: Her goal was to better understand what was motivating a 245 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: big segment of American voters. 246 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 9: If we go back two decades and we look at 247 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 9: three decades, look at nafta offshoring automation that has created 248 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 9: the haves and the have nots of globalization, and so 249 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 9: the haves who live in cities who have bas for 250 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 9: whom new opportunities have opened up, aren't looking at the 251 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 9: situation of loss. It's not just deprivation, but loss of 252 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 9: actually the white blue collar class. So they feeling frightened 253 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 9: them and a sense of loss. So they have turned 254 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 9: to a charismatic figure who works through emotions. And that's 255 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 9: that's why it's important. I believe, for example, that Donald 256 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 9: Trump has I think actually as a person, he's experienced 257 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 9: shame and very harsh father and that would be neither 258 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 9: here nor there, except that it's given him enormous insight 259 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 9: into the pain of unwarranted shame that a lot of 260 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 9: blue collar men who feel in free fall have felt. 261 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that Arley doesn't just drop into these communities. 262 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: She really embeds in these different places and gains people's trusts, 263 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: so they really open up to her about their life experiences. 264 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: And that's something I talk with Jessica Tarlov about. She's 265 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: the lone Democrat on the most popular show on Fox News, 266 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: it's The Five, and she's learned that her co hosts 267 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: who disagree with her passionately most things, have come to 268 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: their views. 269 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 6: Honestly, I'm a proud establishment Democrat, very moderate by the 270 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 6: party's standards, you know, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, type of Democrat, 271 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 6: not more AOC Bernie Sanders Mold And I think that 272 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 6: that works better with the bipartisan conversation, because I mean, 273 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 6: if you want to have a food fight, and you 274 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 6: remember what cable news was like around once Trump announced, 275 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 6: and like every night on CNN, it was like Anna 276 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 6: Navarro losing her mind, right, and Kaylee Mcanenniy was on 277 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 6: in those days, and Anderson Cooper is just kind of 278 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 6: sitting in the middle petrified, right like that, That's what 279 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 6: it was like. But you could have a more thoughtful conversation, 280 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 6: and I found myself being able to do that more 281 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 6: or less. And it always is embedded, at least for 282 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 6: me coming from a place of understanding that I'm talking 283 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 6: to people who generally come by their beliefs honestly. And 284 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 6: I think that too many people suppose that folks who 285 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 6: they don't agree with don't actually believe the things that 286 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 6: they're saying. But most of the time they do, and 287 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 6: a lot of that is due to circumstances how they 288 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 6: grow up. Like I grew up here in New York City, 289 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,239 Speaker 6: I have had a charmed life. I know where my 290 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 6: liberal politics come from and what my lived experience has 291 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 6: been and going to work at a place like Fox, 292 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 6: I now have people in my orbit who have a 293 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 6: completely different set of backgrounds who when they talk about 294 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,239 Speaker 6: how they feel about the Second Amendment that comes from 295 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 6: a place of growing up with guns and having hunters 296 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 6: in their families, or when they talk about, you know, 297 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 6: probably the toughest issue that I ever have to discuss 298 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 6: on air being pro life or bringing pro choice, especially 299 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 6: in the wake of the Dobs decision, that a lot 300 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 6: of people's beliefs on that is rooted in their religiosity. 301 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 6: Where I look at it as a policy issue and 302 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,120 Speaker 6: a scientific issue, and they're telling me about. 303 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: It so a personal liberty issue. 304 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 6: All of the things that we think about it versus 305 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 6: this is what I was taught in Sunday School, this 306 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 6: is what I know. I grew up in, meshed in 307 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 6: an environment that feels really differently to that. 308 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: That broader understanding of where people's beliefs actually come from, 309 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: whether it's rooted in their upbringing, lived experiences, religious teachings, 310 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: or culture, really shapes how we approach difficult conversations. And 311 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: speaking of challenging topics, one area that has sparked significant 312 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: debate in recent years is education, particularly around claims of 313 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: so called woke indoctrination in schools. From critical race theory 314 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: to gender identity, these topics have become political flash points. 315 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: The problem is most of the arguments have no basis 316 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: in truth. Remember the pet eating Haitian immigrants in Ohio, 317 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: the claim that your son goes to school as a 318 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: bod and comes home as a girl, or that infamous 319 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: pedophile ring in the basement of the dcpiece of parlor. Yeah, 320 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: not true. I spoke with Miguel Cardona, the outgoing US 321 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: Secretary of Education, about how these issues have reached a 322 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: boiling point in our political discourse. But I wondered, have 323 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: they really taken over our nation's schools. You mentioned political ideology, 324 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: and I think there is also an undercurrent of anger 325 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: that some voters apparently feel that somehow students are being 326 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: indoctrinated with sort of a woke ideology, whether it's critical 327 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: race theory or gender identity issues. And I'm curious if 328 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: you could speak to that and sure separate fact from 329 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: fiction and what's going on in classrooms across the country. 330 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 8: You know those campaign strategies, Katie, I'm gonna be very 331 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 8: frank with you. I have less say on what my 332 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 8: children learn in the classroom now than I did when 333 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 8: I was a classroom teacher. Every position I've had before 334 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 8: Secretary of Education, I've had more authority to control the 335 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 8: curriculum than I do now. So that's all misinformation, and 336 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 8: I think it was done again an attempt to create 337 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 8: dissonance and and really get people to believe something that's 338 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 8: not accurate. So a lot of it was misinformation intended 339 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 8: to create division in our in our schools. I do 340 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 8: not control curriculum, you know. In terms of indoctrination, I 341 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 8: think the closest thing we've seen to that is we 342 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 8: have some states, you know, buying Bibles for every student 343 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 8: in their school. I mean, and I'm a Christian, I'm 344 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 8: I'm a God fearing man. I you know, was raised 345 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 8: Christian and still practice and have strong faith. Faith has 346 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 8: really driven me so much. And I don't talk a 347 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 8: lot about it, but I know that I'm following God's 348 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 8: plan and it's not my plan. I really can get 349 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 8: into that, but I do believe in the separation of 350 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 8: a church and state. So when I see those who 351 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 8: are saying that we're indoctrinating students doing some of the 352 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 8: things that really align with indoctrination. I get baffled, you know, 353 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 8: but I never bet against America's schools and America's educators 354 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 8: and parents to really separate fact from fiction and see 355 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 8: what's happening. There is no indoctrination there. You know, there's 356 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 8: a lot of this. I was at a at an 357 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 8: event recently and I saw a friend of mine from 358 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 8: high school. True story. He told me that his mother 359 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 8: believed when it was said that, you know, you send 360 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 8: your kid to school as a boy and then comes 361 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 8: back three days later as a girl, and they changed 362 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 8: them and they didn't know why she believed that. And 363 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 8: this person that was telling me that said, you got 364 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 8: to talk to my mom. I don't know how how 365 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 8: the hell she believes that that's that's wild, But yet 366 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 8: she believes it because she hears it being said. And 367 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 8: that to me, is more of a political strategy than 368 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 8: it is talking about education policy. And it was done 369 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 8: to get people to believe what they hear. It's sad 370 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 8: that it's gotten to that point of such misinformation direct 371 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 8: lives being shared openly. There was a time where no 372 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 8: party would ever stoop to that level of spreading lies 373 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 8: just to get people to believe you so that you 374 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 8: could vote a certain way. You know, I have confidence 375 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 8: that our local educators and our local parents work well 376 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 8: together and they're going to continue to evolve education to 377 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 8: make sure that our students needs are being met. But 378 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 8: it really it's sad in me how how much misinformation 379 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 8: was being spread with the intention of dividing our communities 380 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 8: for a vote. 381 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: Well, when it comes to sort of educating kids about 382 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: gender identity, are there certain guidelines or is it decided 383 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: at the state and local level. 384 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 8: Local level, I have not had any conversations in my 385 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 8: time as Secretary of Education of how to teach any 386 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 8: of that. As a matter of fact, I have not 387 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 8: even weighed in on that my personal beliefs or my 388 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 8: beliefs as a lifelong educator with degrees in education. Has 389 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 8: never been heard on an airwave about how to teach that. 390 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: The misinformation Secretary Cardona refers to is of course spread 391 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: online via social media, and it's a huge problem that 392 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: I think is behind our hardened positions and the polarization 393 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: in this country that seems to be getting worse every day, 394 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: polarization that is reinforced by our intensely partisan media landscape. 395 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: Michael Tamaski, the editor of the New Republic, believes the 396 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: conservative side is winning. He's covered the growing influence of 397 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: the right wing media industrial complex, and I asked him 398 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: about his diagnosis of where we are and how we 399 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: got there. Can I quote your article? If they're done, 400 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: you're in fantasy land. They're not happy with the rough parody, 401 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: the slight advantage they have. Now they want media domination. 402 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: Sinclair bought the once glorious Baltimore's son. Don't think they'll 403 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: stop there. I predict Sinclair or News Corp. Will own 404 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: the Washington Post one day, maybe sooner than we think. 405 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: So I guess the question, Michael, is what can be 406 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: done about this? 407 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 10: Well, Liberals have to make a concerted effort, as Republicans 408 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 10: did twenty and thirty years ago, to build their own media. 409 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 10: And it has to be smart, it has to be good, 410 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 10: it has to entertain, it has to get an audience. 411 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 10: All those burdens will will apply to it, so you know, 412 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 10: it has to be good and succeed. But they just 413 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 10: have to start doing something about this. And they have 414 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 10: to try to reach into Middle America and talk to 415 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 10: people there because there are so many just vast swaths 416 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 10: of the country where the idea of liberalism and the 417 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 10: name of the Democratic Party are just dirt. And you know, 418 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 10: I cited also in the piece an example, the voters 419 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 10: of Missouri voted to protect abortion rights on one ballot initiative, 420 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 10: and they voted for paid family leave in a higher 421 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 10: minimum wage, and always they voted for these very democratic 422 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 10: liberal things, right, and by reasonably comfortable margins on those 423 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 10: But would they They wouldn't elect a Democrat in a 424 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 10: million years. 425 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 4: You know. 426 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 10: The Democratic candidate for Senate, Lucas Kons who ran against 427 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 10: Josh Holly, ran a good race, had money won, the 428 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 10: debate didn't come within fourteen fifteen points, So you know, 429 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 10: work has to be done, especially in those parts of 430 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 10: the country where Democrats used to win. Wasn't that long 431 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 10: ago that there was a Democratic senator from Missouri Claire McCaskill, 432 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 10: or Democratic senators from Iowa, even Arkansas, But it just 433 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 10: seems inconceivable now. So the party needs to rebuild in 434 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 10: those places. And part of that story is media rebuilding. 435 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing is that the Liberals or Democrats 436 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: need to develop their own network, their own vast network 437 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: of media entities. Does that mean sort of news that 438 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: reported just the facts, that wasn't based in opinion, that 439 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: let people know what was going on and tried to 440 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: give context, is just a thing of the past. 441 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 10: No, I don't think so. I think the facts. You're 442 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 10: kind of on liberalism side. That's one thing. I mean, 443 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 10: you know, and most people support a lot of things 444 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 10: that liberals are for. Most people support a higher minimum wage, 445 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 10: as that Missouri vote shows. Most people support paid family leave, 446 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 10: Most people support a tax increases for the wealthy. You 447 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 10: go down these issues in child tax credit, most people 448 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 10: are for these things. So I don't think it means 449 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 10: the end of It means the end of a certain 450 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 10: kind of neutrality, but that neutrality has been disrobed. I 451 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 10: think over the last twenty years. It's not enough to 452 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 10: say this side says this, and this side says that, 453 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 10: and we won't referee it. That hasn't worked. That hasn't worked. 454 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 10: It means just refereeing it and telling people the truth, 455 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 10: putting truth ahead of fairness. That's what I always say, Katie. 456 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 10: There are these two values of the media, as you know, 457 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 10: that are traditional values to be fair and represent both 458 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 10: points of view or all points of view, but also 459 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 10: to be truthful and tell the truth I think, and 460 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 10: this is truth. I'm sad to say of The New 461 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 10: York Times. In many cases, although the New York Times 462 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 10: remains a great newspaper and does tons of great reporting, 463 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 10: they sometimes when those two values clash, they sometimes put 464 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 10: fairness ahead of proof. We've got to put truth ahead 465 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 10: of fairness. 466 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a 467 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 468 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 469 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Truth 470 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: ahead of fairness makes sense, right. Unfortunately, no one seems 471 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: to agree on facts, and they're in life the rub. Meanwhile, 472 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: the Trump transition is well underway, and it's been kind 473 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: of unhinged. Remember when Matt Gates was going to be 474 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: Attorney General. Well, Gates might have been the craziest pick, 475 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: but many of the folks Trump is selected for his 476 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: cabinet are raising more than a few eyebrows. His supporters 477 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: want him to really drain the swamp this time and 478 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: disrupt the bureaucratic status quo. But his detractors compare this 479 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: crew to the one you might find at the Star 480 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: Wars CANTEENA. I asked David from a conservative writer from 481 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, to weigh in on how this transition differs 482 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: from previous ones. So let's talk about cash fatal David. 483 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: He is a MAGA loyalist to his core right. 484 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 4: So at THEI directors have always been since the Darator 485 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 4: who days people of broad and widely accepted reputation for 486 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 4: political neutral people who sometimes didn't even vote and always 487 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 4: did things presidents didn't like. And that was a job 488 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: many many presidents and many FBI directors refused even to 489 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 4: meet one another. I worked in a White House, and 490 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: if you had anything you want to know from the FBI, 491 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 4: including the President is going to decorate an FBI officer, 492 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: and we need to know the names of the officer's 493 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 4: children and make sure they're pronouncement spelled correctly so we 494 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 4: can recognize them with the speech. If I wanted to say, 495 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 4: what are the names of this hero's children? I went 496 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 4: to the White House Council's office and said, would you 497 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 4: make the call to the FBI to ask them the 498 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 4: name of the hero's children so we can because I 499 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 4: can't talk to them. I would be fired and or 500 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 4: worse if I placed a direct call the FBI. 501 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: There is no any any signal, event propriety, or any 502 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of pressure from the Executive Office to the FBI. 503 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: Was absolutely for Boden, for. 504 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 4: Boten, and that's how it's always always been. And now 505 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 4: you're going to point this person who is one of 506 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 4: these Watergate characters who will do anything for Donald Trump. 507 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 4: You commit and you know, when he was serving in 508 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 4: the last year of the Trump administration as chief of 509 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 4: staff in the Defense Department, the chairman of the Joint 510 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 4: Chief said, jail is an uncomfortable place. So if you're 511 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 4: thinking about doing something that will get you sent to jail, 512 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 4: don't do. He had to caution people, do not break 513 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 4: the law for Trump when he was working as a 514 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 4: staffer in DoD Now he's offered for the head of 515 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 4: the FBI. I think you can group the Trump appointments 516 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 4: into three main categories. They're the people who you know, 517 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 4: maybe you like them, maybe you don't, but their resume 518 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: sort of makes sense. 519 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Right Marco for example. 520 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe you have a high opinion of him, 521 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 4: maybe have a low opinion. But it's not crazy that 522 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 4: the senior Senator who serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 523 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 4: would become Secretary of State. Maybe he'll be a weak one, 524 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 4: but he won't be an outlandish one. Then you have 525 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 4: the people who where there's a serious personality problem of 526 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 4: some kind or another, but where their ability to do 527 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 4: harm is maybe limited, like Pete Heeksach. I mean, you know, 528 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 4: he's a crackpot, He's an ideological crank. His record with 529 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 4: women is horrifying. His own mother thought so. But my 530 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 4: guess is that Pete Hegsead just doesn't have the mental 531 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 4: horsepower and the knowledge of the building and the Pentagon 532 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 4: is organized in a way I don't know how much 533 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 4: harm he's really going to be able to do. Then 534 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 4: you have the Tulsa Gabbards and the cash Betels, who 535 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 4: are going to smaller organize it where the boss is 536 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 4: more powerful, and who have who are not just strange personalities, 537 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 4: but are in the grip of really un American ideas, 538 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 4: and they can do a lot of damage. 539 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: Trump's nominees could in fact do a lot of damage 540 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: as norms and institutions continue to be challenged. What will 541 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: that mean for our country going forward? Democratic Senator Chris 542 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: Murphy Ofnnecticut told me he's worried. 543 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 3: So what I am really concerned is that we lose 544 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 3: the rule of law. That's what happens in democracies that 545 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: stop being democracies all of a sudden. You can't rely 546 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 3: on a fair trial, you can't rely on a fair prosecution. 547 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 3: All of a sudden, You get favors and immunity if 548 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 3: you are a political supporter of the person in power 549 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 3: and you are specifically targeted, often very unfairly. If you 550 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 3: are political opposition, you still have elections, right, but they 551 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 3: don't matter as much because the opposition just disappears because 552 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: most people, when faced with the threat of persecution or prosecution, 553 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 3: decide to just lower their voice, recede into the background. 554 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 3: So I am most worried about Pambondi and Cash Pattel, 555 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 3: who are being picked because they are willing to turn 556 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 3: the Department of Justice into a witch hunt operation for 557 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 3: Trump's political opposition. 558 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 4: And you already see. 559 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 3: What's happening in the business right now. So the mega 560 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 3: billionaires in this country who run the information system have 561 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: already telegraphed that they are not willing to fight. Comcast 562 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 3: has announced they're selling MSNBC they're getting out of the 563 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 3: business of criticizing Donald Trump. Jeff Bezos did not make 564 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 3: an endorsement in this last election, signaling that he does 565 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 3: not want to fight either. Twitter is being run out 566 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 3: of the Whitehouse right now. So you see signaling from 567 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 3: very powerful people in this country that they do not 568 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 3: want to criticize Donald Trump's they want to protect their billions. 569 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 3: And you see a Department of Justice is about to 570 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 3: be taken over by a crowd that may actually start 571 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 3: locking up or threatening to lock up people in this 572 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 3: country who try to oppose Donald Trump. That's the end 573 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 3: of democracy. 574 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: But he also says, in order to fight back, Democrats 575 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: have some work to do. Let's talk about the Democratic Party. 576 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: It's been over a month since the election, and the 577 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: inauguration is not too far away. Half of you seen 578 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party other than looking at itself and wondering 579 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: where it went wrong? Change in the weeks since early November. 580 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 3: Well, I'm deeply worried because I haven't seen the kind 581 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 3: of introspection that I would have hoped. I think that 582 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 3: there's a lot of folks who look at the race 583 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 3: and say, well, Trump, you know, really didn't even get 584 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 3: fifty percent it wasn't a landslide. We almost won the 585 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: House of Representatives. We just need some minor adjustments. I 586 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 3: don't look at it that way. I think we need 587 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 3: to recognize how unbelievable it is that we keep losing 588 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 3: to somebody as reckless as Donald Trump, a felon, somebody 589 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 3: who openly supported an insurrection. Again, it's the United States government. 590 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 3: We should not be satisfied to lose to somebody like 591 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 3: that by such a slim margin. 592 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 4: I also think it is morally. 593 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 3: Unsustainable for our party to stand up and say we're 594 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 3: the party of poor people, and poor people don't want 595 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 3: to vote for us. Like, how do you sort of 596 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 3: wake up every morning and say, well, we're the party 597 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 3: of poor people, but poor people don't like us. We're 598 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 3: not listening to the people we claim to represent. And 599 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 3: even if you can sort of minimize the political jeopardy 600 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 3: that we're in after this election, there's there's a moral 601 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 3: jeopardy we're in as a movement that will just exacerbate 602 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 3: and get worse if we don't look at square in 603 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 3: the face. So I think the answer to your question case, 604 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 3: I haven't seen a lot of things changing the Democratic 605 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 3: Party yet I'm arguing for some major change. Maybe we 606 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,720 Speaker 3: just needed a month or so to lick. 607 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 4: Our wounds, but like we got to get moving well. 608 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: You wrote a memo to fellow Democrats a couple of 609 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: weeks after the election, and you talked about winning back 610 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: low income voters. You believe the key to doing that 611 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: is taking on corporate greed. But with all key respects, 612 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: Senator Murphy, hasn't the Democratic Party been talking about corporate 613 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 1: greed and nauseum for decades? 614 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 3: I don't, not in the way that translates to ordinary 615 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 3: average voters. I mean, frankly, I think the Democratic Party, 616 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 3: along with the Republican Party, has presided over an economy 617 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 3: for the last forty years that has done really, really 618 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 3: well for folks at the very top of the income threshold. 619 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 3: I mean, people sort of look at the economy that 620 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 3: Democrats constructed and it looks like it did really well 621 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 3: for very, very rich people. And they look at who 622 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 3: our coalition is, increasingly upper income individuals, and it doesn't 623 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 3: look like we're sincere. When we talk about corporate power, 624 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 3: we also talk about it generally. We don't necessarily talk 625 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 3: about it specifically. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, they will take 626 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 3: on specific company specific CEOs. But people notice when ninety 627 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 3: percent of Democrats when they talk about corporate greed don't 628 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 3: actually name anybody, that doesn't sound real or sincere. So 629 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 3: I don't think people really believe that we want to 630 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 3: deconstruct concentrated power. And I think that you saw you 631 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 3: saw the hesitancy of the Democratic Party to make that 632 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 3: a ten poll. In the end of this last election. 633 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: I talked to a lot of really smart people, but 634 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: I always turned to Steve Schmidt, a longtime Republican campaign 635 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: advisor who is no longer a Republican by the way, 636 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: for his thirty thousand foot view of where we are 637 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: in our nation's broader history. 638 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 11: All I can say in this moment for any American, 639 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 11: our country's going to outlive all all of us. We'll 640 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 11: never see the whole. We're never gonna get to see 641 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 11: the ending. We just won't, right. And I think this 642 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 11: is like so deeply important to appreciate in the context 643 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 11: of there are things bigger than us, and as an American, 644 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 11: there is nothing bigger than us than the United States. 645 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 11: And in our story, this chapter of it, I think 646 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 11: it's exciting to be part of it, and to oppose 647 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 11: something that I think is deeply terrible because on the 648 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 11: other side of it is something a lot better. That's 649 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 11: the greatness of the country. Lincoln was preceded by the 650 00:40:54,200 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 11: worst president in American history until Trump became president, and 651 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 11: so I think Trump is going to be a disaster disaster, 652 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 11: but the country will endure, damage will be done, Terrible 653 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 11: consequences might happen, but one of the consequences that will 654 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 11: come from the disaster ahead is greatness that will emerge 655 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 11: from it, a greatness that didn't exist in the moment 656 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 11: when what's to come could have been prevented. Destiny did 657 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 11: not shape the events at hand like that. So I 658 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 11: think in this moment, opposing what is about to come 659 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 11: is of deep importance, and I'm excited to have a 660 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 11: small voice in that effort because for me, some people 661 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 11: are great at sports and some people love music and painting. 662 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 11: This is what I care about. There's nothing more important 663 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 11: to me outside of my family than the country. And 664 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 11: what that's come to mean to me over recent years 665 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 11: is not the partisan victory and the excitement of winning 666 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 11: a campaign when I was a young man, but about 667 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 11: the opportunities that everybody ought to have in a country. 668 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 11: That ought to mean when it comes to freedom, the 669 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 11: same thing for everybody, and that is very much on 670 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 11: the table right now, that question. And I could not 671 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 11: think of a better thing to do if I got 672 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 11: a day left, a week left, or thirty five years left, 673 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 11: than to talk about that right now, because what's been 674 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 11: handed down to us to preserve it makes stronger for 675 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 11: the next generation is of profound importance. There's three hundred 676 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 11: and forty million Americans alive, half of us who have 677 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 11: ever lived or alive right now, because there's only been 678 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 11: seven hundred million people in all the history of the 679 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 11: world since July fourth, seventeen seventy six who've been able 680 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 11: to say these words that mean more to me and 681 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 11: I think mean more to a lot of people in 682 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 11: the country than any other association in their life. 683 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 4: And it's this. 684 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,800 Speaker 11: I am an American. 685 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: Everyone here at KCM and specifically next question hopes you 686 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: will all be enjoying a much needed break and that 687 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: you'll be spending the holidays with people you love and 688 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: if you don't always agree with them, meanwhile, we'll see 689 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: you next year. As we continue to try to understand 690 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: and navigate the next four. Happy holidays everyone. Thanks for 691 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a 692 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: subject you want us to cover, or you want to 693 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, 694 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would 695 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production 696 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,320 Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, 697 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, 698 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian 699 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, 700 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,359 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, 701 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit 702 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me 703 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more 704 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 705 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 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