Speaker 1: Somehow everyone else in the world is living a perfectly normal,
Speaker 1: perfect life and it's just me who's failed. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the one you feed. Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized
Speaker 1: the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in,
Speaker 1: garbage out, or you are what you think ring true,
Speaker 1: And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen
Speaker 1: or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 1: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 1: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 1: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Speaker 1: Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort
Speaker 1: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 1: how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,
Speaker 1: how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: Our guest on this episode is Kristin Neff, a self
Speaker 1: compassion researcher, author, and associate professor at the University of
Speaker 1: Texas at Austin. She got her pH d at the
Speaker 1: University of California in Berkeley in the field of moral development.
Speaker 1: While doing her postdoctoral work, she decided to conduct research
Speaker 1: on self compassion, a central construct in Buddhist psychology and
Speaker 1: one that had not been examined empirically. In addition to
Speaker 1: her pioneering research into self compassion, she has developed an
Speaker 1: eight week program to teach self compassion skills. The program,
Speaker 1: co created with her colleague Chris Germer, affiliated with Harvard
Speaker 1: Medical School, is called Mindful Self Compassion. Her book Self Compassion,
Speaker 1: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself was recently
Speaker 1: released in paperback. Kristen and her family were recently featured
Speaker 1: in the documentary and book called The Horseboy. And here's
Speaker 1: the interview with Kristin Neff. Hi, Kristen, Welcome to the show. Hello,
Speaker 1: how are you. I'm doing good. I'm happy to have
Speaker 1: you on it. You and I had some scheduling challenges
Speaker 1: the last time we were going to do this. I
Speaker 1: was driving to get set up for the interview and
Speaker 1: my boy broke his finger, so that took us that
Speaker 1: we had to reschedule that. So I'm glad we got
Speaker 1: to finally get this scheduled. Yes, good to be here.
Speaker 1: So our podcast is called The One You Feed and
Speaker 1: it's based on the parable of two Wolves. And in
Speaker 1: the parable, there is a grandmother who's talking with her granddaughter,
Speaker 1: and she says, in life, there are two wolves inside
Speaker 1: of us that are always at battle. One is a
Speaker 1: good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love,
Speaker 1: and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things
Speaker 1: like greed and hatred and fear. And the granddaughter stops
Speaker 1: and she thinks about it for a second, looks up
Speaker 1: at her grandmother and says, well, grandmother, which one wins?
Speaker 1: And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by ask can you what that
Speaker 1: parable means to you in your life and in the
Speaker 1: work that you do. Yeah, well, it's really key. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a parable and I'm very familiar with and it's
Speaker 1: really about to me setting your intention. Right, we don't
Speaker 1: have total control over how our life unfolds. We don't
Speaker 1: even have control over our thoughts and emotions moment to moment.
Speaker 1: But the seeds of intention we planned toward being, you know,
Speaker 1: and with my work, or being compassionate and kind with oneself,
Speaker 1: or harsh and critical and judgment all of oneself, that's
Speaker 1: really what's going to manifest in terms of the mind
Speaker 1: state you inhabit. So it's really setting your intention firmly
Speaker 1: on compassion and then just let the wolf do its
Speaker 1: own thing. But the one who gets fed is probably
Speaker 1: going to be stronger, healthier, and more vibrant. So your
Speaker 1: research primarily focuses on self compassion. And my first question
Speaker 1: would be, how is self compassion different than self esteem? Well,
Speaker 1: there's a pretty important difference. UM. Self esteem refers to
Speaker 1: a positive evaluation of self worth. In other words, that
Speaker 1: I'm a good person as opposed to a bad person. Um.
Speaker 1: Self compassion does not entail judgment or evaluation at all.
Speaker 1: In fact, what it does is simply a way of
Speaker 1: relating to yourself kindly, like you would relate to a
Speaker 1: good friend. So whereas self esteem deserves you, when you
Speaker 1: fail or make a mistake, or you look in the
Speaker 1: mirror and you've noticed you've gained twenty pounds, whatever it
Speaker 1: is that shakes your self esteem, um, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just not there for you to rely on anymore. Whereas
Speaker 1: self compassion is a much more reliable friend, because even
Speaker 1: when you fail, or you feel inadequate, or something that's
Speaker 1: gone terribly wrong in your life, you can still support
Speaker 1: yourself um like a friend and treat yourself with kindness.
Speaker 1: So research pretty strongly differentiates the two and shows that
Speaker 1: although both are strongly linked to well being, you're happier
Speaker 1: less depressed if you have self esteem or self compassion.
Speaker 1: Self compassion isn't contingent and unstable the way self esteem is.
Speaker 1: And so you started by taking self compassions as an
Speaker 1: idea that you had been taught in various different spiritual settings,
Speaker 1: and then you decided that what you want to do
Speaker 1: is take it into the lab and do research on
Speaker 1: how it works and how effective it is. So are
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that you found in
Speaker 1: your research about what self compassion does for us? Right? Well, Um,
Speaker 1: the research on self compassion really is exploding. It so
Speaker 1: gratifying for me to see. Um. And so we do
Speaker 1: know in terms of basic links to well being that
Speaker 1: people who are more self compassionate, they tend to be happier,
Speaker 1: they tend to be more optimistic, more satisfied with their lies. Um.
Speaker 1: They're also less likely to be depressed or full of
Speaker 1: anxiety or shame. So their overall functioning is more positive,
Speaker 1: more healthy on a day to day basis. But um,
Speaker 1: what's been really interesting coming out more recently is research
Speaker 1: showing that a lot of the fears and misgivings we
Speaker 1: have about self compassion aren't true. So I'll give you
Speaker 1: one example on a lot of people are afraid that
Speaker 1: if they're self compassionate the loser edge, they won't be
Speaker 1: motivated to achieve their goals, are just going to be
Speaker 1: kind of passive or self indulgent or lazy. Um. And
Speaker 1: in fact, what the research shows quite clearly is it
Speaker 1: self compassion enhances motivation. Right, So, just like if you're
Speaker 1: a good supportive friend to yourself encouraging not that there's
Speaker 1: no criticism. If the criticism is constructive as opposed to
Speaker 1: harsh and belittling, that type of feedback is much more
Speaker 1: productive in terms of encouraging you to make needed changes
Speaker 1: or to learn and grow. Um. One of the big
Speaker 1: findings coming out is that if you're self compassionate, you're
Speaker 1: less afraid of failure. It's safe to fail, right, you're
Speaker 1: human being, you're perfect like everyone else. You failed sometimes
Speaker 1: failures part of the learning experience, and so when you're
Speaker 1: less afraid of failure, you're more willing to take risks.
Speaker 1: When you do fail, you get less derailed by it.
Speaker 1: You stay, you stay confident in yourself, and you're more
Speaker 1: allowedly to try again and to persist in trying even
Speaker 1: when things that are difficult. So really, it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: pretty clear that self compassion increases, not decreases motivation. I
Speaker 1: think there's a sense that we all have that being
Speaker 1: really critical and hard on ourselves is the way that
Speaker 1: we drive results. That's by by not letting up on ourselves.
Speaker 1: And it seems that the research you're doing shows that
Speaker 1: that is not the case. And in one of your
Speaker 1: books you say that self criticism is strongly linked with
Speaker 1: depression and it creates sort of a perpetual cycle, a
Speaker 1: downward spiral. Yes, that's right. So when we were self critical,
Speaker 1: let's say you blew a big work assignment, right, So
Speaker 1: you've got two ways to respond to that, either with
Speaker 1: hard self criticism idiot like in the in the belief
Speaker 1: that if I'm really hard on myself, I'll never blow
Speaker 1: it again. You know, maybe if I were to just
Speaker 1: try that a little bit harder, I would be perfect
Speaker 1: perfection as possible. Right, So what happens when you take
Speaker 1: that stance towards yourself is, first of all, when you
Speaker 1: when you call yourself names, which a lot of people do,
Speaker 1: and I'm ashamed of myself. I'm worthless. We undermine our
Speaker 1: own self confidence, which is very bad for motivation and
Speaker 1: achieving our goals. We also create an anxious state of mind.
Speaker 1: It's like, um, you know, I can't fail again, and
Speaker 1: if I try again, what if I fail? I can't fail?
Speaker 1: And we get very um, we get very fearful, fear
Speaker 1: of failure, and just we have a lot of performance
Speaker 1: anxiety because the states are so high. If we do
Speaker 1: fail and we know that, performance anxiety undermines our ability
Speaker 1: to do our best. Whereas if we're compassionate and understanding
Speaker 1: and we just basically ask ourselves to do the best
Speaker 1: we can, knowing even if we fail, will still support
Speaker 1: and be there for ourselves, then that creates the optimal
Speaker 1: state of mind to do our best. In your research,
Speaker 1: you've identified three pillars of self compassion. What are those
Speaker 1: three pillars and how do those help us to practice
Speaker 1: self compassion? The first one is really how you relate
Speaker 1: to yourself when you fail or feel inadequate, or life
Speaker 1: just becomes very difficult. Do you relate to yourself with kindness,
Speaker 1: care and support, or do you relate yourself with a
Speaker 1: sense of relate to yourself with harsh criticism. Again, that punitive, cold, harsh,
Speaker 1: driving behavior that we think good for us but actually
Speaker 1: turns out not to be all right. So a self
Speaker 1: compassion we're carrying, we're supportive or understanding. We don't beat
Speaker 1: ourselves up. And more than that, just like you will
Speaker 1: with a friend who we're distressed or we're really struggling,
Speaker 1: we actively soothe and comfort ourselves. Okay, it's really one
Speaker 1: of the most powerful aspects of self compassion is the
Speaker 1: ability to soothe and comfort ourselves when we're feeling emotional pain. Um.
Speaker 1: The second kind of pillar of self compassion, as you
Speaker 1: call it's very important to remember this one is framing
Speaker 1: our experience, our experience of human imperfection, in light of
Speaker 1: the shared human experience, remembering that all people have both
Speaker 1: weaknesses and strengths, and that all people struggle at some
Speaker 1: point in their lives. It's part of what it means
Speaker 1: to be a human. Now, this is in contrast to
Speaker 1: our more habitual way of relating to ourselves when, especially
Speaker 1: when we fail, is there is a feeling and this
Speaker 1: isn't really a logical thought process, it's an emotional reaction.
Speaker 1: There's a feeling. Let's say you fail at some big task.
Speaker 1: This shouldn't be happening. You know, this isn't supposed to
Speaker 1: be happening. I should have been able to get it right,
Speaker 1: and the fact that I didn't mean something is wrong.
Speaker 1: And implicit in that assumption that this shouldn't be happening
Speaker 1: is that somehow everyone else in the world is living
Speaker 1: a perfectly normal, perfect life and it's just me who's failed,
Speaker 1: or just me who's gotten that diagnosis, right, just me
Speaker 1: who's facing that challenge. So we when we fall into
Speaker 1: the illusion of thinking that failure or suffering is somehow abnormal,
Speaker 1: we feel really isolated from the rest of humanity. And
Speaker 1: it's that sense of isolation. Research is starting to suggest
Speaker 1: that that sense of isolation and our own imperfection is
Speaker 1: especially psychologically damaging. So with self compassion, when we remember
Speaker 1: that actually this is normal. Failure is normal, facing life
Speaker 1: challenges is normal, but in fact every moment of suffering
Speaker 1: becomes an opportunity for connection. And then the last part
Speaker 1: of self compassion I talk about is something that people
Speaker 1: are pretty familiar with these days, and that's mindfulness. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: typically when something unpleasant happens, some painful situation comes up.
Speaker 1: We don't want to face it. We want to either
Speaker 1: avoid it and like you know, stuff it down, not
Speaker 1: think about it, or else we get really reactive and resistant,
Speaker 1: get angry and frustrated at the fact that this has happened.
Speaker 1: And when we're in that state of mind, either avoiding
Speaker 1: our experience or fighting it madly, usually with self criticism,
Speaker 1: we can't open our hearts to ourselves. We have to
Speaker 1: be able to pause mindfully and recognize that this is
Speaker 1: really hard right now, right, this is a moment of suffering.
Speaker 1: This is uh, this is challenging. I'm experiencing some emotional pain.
Speaker 1: We need to be able to turn toward our own pain,
Speaker 1: be with it long enough in order for us to
Speaker 1: validate it, and then you know, have a compassionate response.
Speaker 1: So that's it's very important that we're willing to turn
Speaker 1: toward our pain then embrace it with the sense of
Speaker 1: warmth and connections. And here's the rest of the interview
Speaker 1: with Kristin Neff. So how do we go about practicing
Speaker 1: self compassion? So I listened to this, you know, one
Speaker 1: of our listeners listens and goes, yeah, I am really
Speaker 1: hard on myself. I believe that's not a very helpful strategy.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to be more self compassionate to myself.
Speaker 1: Is it as simple as just deciding to do that?
Speaker 1: Or are there particular steps that you recommend? How do
Speaker 1: I get from here to there? Well, it is easier
Speaker 1: than you might think, right. I wasn't sure how hard
Speaker 1: it would be for people to change their habits. But actually, people,
Speaker 1: if it is a choice, you have to aid decide
Speaker 1: that you're worthy of kindness. You know, not by not
Speaker 1: by virtue of any special accomplishment other than being an
Speaker 1: imperfect human being, which most of us can manage. Right,
Speaker 1: So if you decide you're worthy of being kind, then
Speaker 1: actually most of us have a lot of experience in
Speaker 1: knowing how to be kind. Again, the place to start
Speaker 1: is maybe to do a little inventory. How do I
Speaker 1: treat my friends when they're suffering or upset, or feel
Speaker 1: inadequate in some way, maybe failed in some way? Um?
Speaker 1: And how do I treat myself in those same circumstances.
Speaker 1: The vast majority of people are a lot kinder, more patient,
Speaker 1: and more understanding to others than they are to themselves.
Speaker 1: So the good news is if you don't if you
Speaker 1: think out or how to be kind to myself. You
Speaker 1: can just simply imagine, well, what would I say to
Speaker 1: a dear friend who was going through the exact same
Speaker 1: situation I was. You know, we know what to say,
Speaker 1: we know the tone of voice to use. We usually
Speaker 1: know how to soothe people close to us or upset
Speaker 1: or children or close friends, maybe our partner. And just
Speaker 1: try adopting that same tone and um language with yourself.
Speaker 1: And that's one way what you say to yourself is important.
Speaker 1: Another thing that people have access to which they don't
Speaker 1: take advantage of, is what we call soothing touch. Okay,
Speaker 1: as mammals, we have that what's called them a million
Speaker 1: caregiving system. It's or sometimes it's referred to as the
Speaker 1: attachment system. It's basically the system that makes the mother
Speaker 1: want to care for and keep poor infant child safe,
Speaker 1: and that keeps the infant child m desirous of maintaining
Speaker 1: contact with the mother so it feels safe. And this
Speaker 1: is what gives mammals their advantage as they have belong
Speaker 1: developmental period to adapt to the environment. But that means
Speaker 1: that all mammals, but especially primates and especially human primates
Speaker 1: or bone born the most immature. There are three main
Speaker 1: triggers of this compassion soothing caregiving system, and that is
Speaker 1: physical warmth, a gentle touch, and soothing vocalizations that's really tone.
Speaker 1: So what you can do when you're upset is simply
Speaker 1: touch yourself with kindness, maybe put your hands over your heart,
Speaker 1: give yourself a hug, hold your own hand and like
Speaker 1: you might hold the hand of a child. I really
Speaker 1: encourage people to experiment to find some sort of types
Speaker 1: that feels supportive and calming. People actually are pretty pretty
Speaker 1: different what works for them, but this is something that
Speaker 1: is instantly available. Right your body gets feels calmed, ensued
Speaker 1: by the warmth of your hands, by the gentle pressure
Speaker 1: of your touch, by the tone of your internal dialogue,
Speaker 1: even before your mind can go there. So that's that's
Speaker 1: something that people really can take advantage of almost immediately. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that idea of talking to ourselves as we would talk
Speaker 1: to a friend is one of those very simple pieces
Speaker 1: of wisdom that, if implemented, is so powerful. And one
Speaker 1: of the things I like about that so much is
Speaker 1: I think my experience of internal self conversation tends to
Speaker 1: oscillate between extremely self critical or on the other hand,
Speaker 1: extremely indulgent myself, like you deserve, you know, a hundred
Speaker 1: hot fudge Sundays today because you've had such a bad day.
Speaker 1: And when I think about how I would treat a
Speaker 1: friend who is going through a similar situation, it's that
Speaker 1: mixture of kindness, but I also would would have their
Speaker 1: better interest at heart, there would be a sense of accountability.
Speaker 1: It seems to strike that right balance between the two
Speaker 1: places that I'm naturally prone to go in my own
Speaker 1: head when dealing with myself. YEA, so absolutely, I mean indulgence,
Speaker 1: whether it's self indulgence or it's a mother maybe indulgient
Speaker 1: or child, that's not compassionate, because indulgence really means giving
Speaker 1: yourself short term pleasure at the expense of long term
Speaker 1: harm and care about yourself, and you want to alleviate
Speaker 1: your own software and you aren't going to engage in
Speaker 1: self indulgent behavior, right, So sometimes compassion can be a
Speaker 1: little fierce. Sometimes compassion can say, hey, you know, you've
Speaker 1: got to stop this. This is harming you. It's it's
Speaker 1: really not your best interests I care about you. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can actually have a conversation with yourself saying things
Speaker 1: like this, I care about you. You're suffering, Um, can
Speaker 1: you please try to do things differently? And I'm here
Speaker 1: to support and encourage you. So it's not like our
Speaker 1: inner compassion itself or the self compassion doesn't want change
Speaker 1: to happen, or doesn't want to end harmful behaviors or
Speaker 1: you know, again do things that are going to be
Speaker 1: healthy and productive. It's really all on how it's approached.
Speaker 1: Is it approached with warmth, kindness, and friendliness, and if so,
Speaker 1: those messages are much more likely to be received. Or
Speaker 1: is it approach with a harsh, punitive tone, which basically
Speaker 1: is like pulling the rug out from underneath yourself. It
Speaker 1: makes the worst possible mental state of mind to make
Speaker 1: effective change, right. Yeah, it's that idea of you know,
Speaker 1: we're kind of circling back on that, the self criticism,
Speaker 1: But my experience has certainly been that is not an
Speaker 1: effective driver of change. It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: Certainly for me, in battling with addictions in the past
Speaker 1: and different things, the times where I was, you know,
Speaker 1: most harsh to myself were not the times that led
Speaker 1: to recovery. I think it was almost when I started
Speaker 1: to talk to myself in a different tone. Talk to
Speaker 1: myself in that kind tone. That's when change started to
Speaker 1: be possible. It's important to remember, though, that we also
Speaker 1: don't want to criticize ourselves from criticizing our health's up
Speaker 1: for beating ourselves up, because if we actually understand what
Speaker 1: the process of self criticism is doing. Also, criticism really
Speaker 1: stems from when we feel threatened in some way. Right,
Speaker 1: So when we failed, for instance, our self concept is
Speaker 1: threatened and our body doesn't know the difference between our
Speaker 1: self concept being threatened and the bare charging us. Right,
Speaker 1: all we think is threat to self. So um, we
Speaker 1: get really scared. And by the way, this is why
Speaker 1: we tend to criticize ourselves more than our friends. Because
Speaker 1: my friend fails, it doesn't threaten me, but I feel
Speaker 1: I feel threatened, so I go into this fight or
Speaker 1: flight mode. Unfortunately I turned that on myself. I attacked
Speaker 1: the problem. The problem is me. But it's all coming
Speaker 1: underneath from an actually good place, and that's a desire
Speaker 1: to be safe. So you might say inner critic is
Speaker 1: like a tantumine two year old, it's not very mature,
Speaker 1: doesn't give us advice. Well, it's actually usually completely counterproductive.
Speaker 1: But it's intention is good, which is it's trying to
Speaker 1: keep you safe. And in fact, one of the ways
Speaker 1: to make it easier to access motivating ourselves and you know,
Speaker 1: the desire to keep ourselves safe and happy and well
Speaker 1: with compassion is by kind of giving some kudos to
Speaker 1: the self critic. You know, hey, thank you for caring.
Speaker 1: Thank you for trying to keep me safe. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I get you. I hear your message. You don't have
Speaker 1: to shout so loudly. I get it. There's danger here, okay,
Speaker 1: And then we can use this more mature more UM
Speaker 1: were recently involved them million caregiving system to provide that
Speaker 1: sense of safety. Right, it's really about it's a skill
Speaker 1: in how we talk to ourselves. The self critic is
Speaker 1: not bad, it's just it's just um. And it's also
Speaker 1: the most easily trigger safety system. So it's not surprising
Speaker 1: we're so habitually hard on ourselves. But we don't really
Speaker 1: want to be, you know, running our lives from our
Speaker 1: reptilian brain. We want to have more mature, aware responses,
Speaker 1: which comes from this place of kindness is opposed to
Speaker 1: fear and threat. Is it a slippery slope between self
Speaker 1: compassion and self pity, right, So that's why common humanity
Speaker 1: is so important. Common humanity and mindfulness. Okay, if you
Speaker 1: are just kind of feeling sorry for yourself and saying, oh,
Speaker 1: that's terrible, poor thing, but you forget about common humanity,
Speaker 1: then it becomes poor me, whoe was me? So it's
Speaker 1: self focused, and there tends to be kind of an
Speaker 1: exaggeration and over dramatization of the suffering common humanity? Is
Speaker 1: it for me? Common humanity as well? Life's difficult for everyone,
Speaker 1: So I'm including myself from the circle of compassion, but
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not saying my problems are worse than anyone else's.
Speaker 1: So that keeps it from being so self focused. And
Speaker 1: the mindfulness, which is kind of a clear balance seeing
Speaker 1: an acceptance of things as they are, and prevents us
Speaker 1: from running away with this exaggerated storyline of how bad
Speaker 1: things are. The moren't for those two elements, actually self
Speaker 1: kindness could slip into self pity. So all three we
Speaker 1: really need to be present. So one of the things
Speaker 1: that you said in one of your books is that
Speaker 1: suffering stems from a single source, comparing our reality to
Speaker 1: our ideals. When reality matches our wants, and desires were
Speaker 1: happy and satisfied. When reality doesn't match our wants and desires,
Speaker 1: we suffer. How does self compassion help with this pretty
Speaker 1: common human problem? I hope I'm not getting into technical here,
Speaker 1: But this thing about accepting reality as it is basically
Speaker 1: not banging our head against reality which makes things worse. Um,
Speaker 1: it's really referring a little more to mindfulness that the
Speaker 1: peace of mind, the equanimity we gain when we accept
Speaker 1: that things are often not as we like them to be.
Speaker 1: Their their their heart, they're difficult, they're scary. Um, we
Speaker 1: don't know what succeed. Things happen. You know, at the
Speaker 1: very least, we're all going to get sick and old
Speaker 1: and die. Right, that's life. But the warmth part of
Speaker 1: self compassion, the kindness, basically embraces ourselves in the midst
Speaker 1: of this acceptance that life is difficult. So it says, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, I'll give you a personal example right
Speaker 1: where I really saw this, um come bear fruit my
Speaker 1: self compassion practice. My son has autism, and when he
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with autism, Um, it was you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to face it, I didn't want to accept it.
Speaker 1: Surely there must be some mistake. Um, But because of
Speaker 1: my mindfulness practice, I was fairly quickly being able to say, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: this is what life has dealt you. We need to
Speaker 1: accept it. I'll just make it worse if I fight
Speaker 1: against this reality. But the compassion, I was able to
Speaker 1: soothe and comfort myself care for myself in the midst
Speaker 1: of it. So, you know, honor the fact that this
Speaker 1: is hard. And I tried to be kind to myself,
Speaker 1: and I tried to be supportive with myself and caring,
Speaker 1: and that actually allowed me. Um that that kind of
Speaker 1: self support needed to fully open to and accept my experience.
Speaker 1: So you might say that compassion is always aimed at soothing, comforting,
Speaker 1: caring for the experience or i e. Ourselves when things
Speaker 1: are really difficult and painful. What lesson would you say
Speaker 1: that it has taken you the longest to learn in
Speaker 1: your life? Um boy, that's a big question. There are
Speaker 1: still there are still lessons I'm learning. So for instance,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of in terms of how I'm wired,
Speaker 1: I'm actually a fairly reactive person. Right My My first
Speaker 1: instinct isn't to give a calm, balanced response if I
Speaker 1: feel threatened in some way, My first instinct is to
Speaker 1: be kind of challenging and reactive, and so I don't
Speaker 1: know if I will ever change. That might be part
Speaker 1: of my wowing. But what I'm learning is UM to
Speaker 1: basically the the notice when I'm triggered, and again immediately
Speaker 1: myself soothing and comfort and kindness. Because I'm trigger does
Speaker 1: not expect that I shouldn't be UM and then so
Speaker 1: hopefully that cannot give my give myself the sense of
Speaker 1: safety to maybe pause and not just react, or to
Speaker 1: be totally honest. At this point. Often what happens is
Speaker 1: I do react, but almost immediately I'm able to catch
Speaker 1: myself and apologize, so no lasting harm is done to relationships.
Speaker 1: Something may come out of my mouth and I say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so sorry, I was totally out
Speaker 1: of line. Please forgive me right. So, UM, you know
Speaker 1: that one is just we are. I'm perfect, and we
Speaker 1: don't know us act the way we want. But if
Speaker 1: you can, I find that if you can own it,
Speaker 1: and you can allow yourself to be vulnerable and especially
Speaker 1: admit when we've caused harm in some way or we're
Speaker 1: out of line, most people are pretty forgiving, but you
Speaker 1: have to allow yourself to be vulnerable. You can try
Speaker 1: to protect your ego or defend your ego and try
Speaker 1: to blow off responsibility. And the more you do that,
Speaker 1: I should say that it's easier to do when you
Speaker 1: give yourself unconditional love and acceptance. Excellent. So tell me
Speaker 1: very briefly about the Center for Mindful Self Compassion. Yes,
Speaker 1: So what's been really exciting? You know, I've been researching
Speaker 1: self compassion for about fifteen years now, UM, but about
Speaker 1: five years ago I teamed up with a man named
Speaker 1: Chris Germer, who is actually one of the main people
Speaker 1: who brought meditation and the psychotherapy founded the Meditation and
Speaker 1: Psychotherapy Institute, and we decided we wanted to create a
Speaker 1: kind of structured workshop in order to teach people how
Speaker 1: to be self compassionate in their daily life. So we
Speaker 1: developed an intervention which is eight sessions where we meet
Speaker 1: once a week for eight weeks, two and half hours
Speaker 1: each session, and we've developed a variety of exercises, small
Speaker 1: group exercises, meditations that really seem to help people learn
Speaker 1: the skill self compassion. And so we just founded, um
Speaker 1: this center. We got our nonprofit status recently, UH to
Speaker 1: help really spread this throughout the world, and we're teaching
Speaker 1: people to teach the program to others. We're not only
Speaker 1: teaching the program, we're training teachers to teach the program
Speaker 1: in the local communities. And uh, if people want to
Speaker 1: find out about that, they can actually link to my
Speaker 1: website or go to center form messy dot org um
Speaker 1: and there may even be of course near you if
Speaker 1: you want to check that out. We're growing by leaps
Speaker 1: and bounds all over the world. It's very exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of courses out there. I was
Speaker 1: looking at the page earlier and we will have links
Speaker 1: to Kristen's work as well as the Center for Mindful
Speaker 1: Self Compassion in the show notes. Well, Kristen, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for taking the time. It's been a pleasure
Speaker 1: talking with you, and I've really enjoyed reading your books
Speaker 1: and and learning more about self compassion. So thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me, and thanks for the
Speaker 1: great work you do in the world. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, take care, Okay, okay, good bye.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about this podcast and Kristin nef
Speaker 1: at one you feed dot net slash NF that's n
Speaker 1: e f F. Thanks