1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: M Hey everyone, it's Josh and I've chosen for this 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: week's s Y s K Select our two thousand fourteen 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: episode on the inappropriately named collective Hysteria. It turns out 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: that people can have a real effect on how other 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: people feel and behave. So take this as a sign 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: to be nice and maybe even soothing to others. And 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: while you're working on that, enjoy the super cool episode 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: on some super weird psychology. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 9 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to 10 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as 11 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there to the left, 12 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: and that makes the Stuff you Should Know got the 13 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: a team. Yeah, in the hissy, I call face what Oh, 14 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm face of course your face look at you. I 15 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: would be a combination of Murdoch and Mr Tamnik. Yeah. 16 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: Oh your hair is kind of spiky in the middle today. Yeah, Jerry, 17 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what she'd be. I guess she'd be 18 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: the leader. She'd be Hannibal. Oh, yeah, you know she's 19 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: smoking a cigar right now and wearing a black glove. 20 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: When did you start smoking cigars? Jerry, that's weird. Very timely, 21 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: I said, a team. I don't want to slag off 22 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: guest produce a knoll. He's not exactly be team. No, 23 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: we'll just call ourselves the O G S. Okay, now 24 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: that we have that established, we are the O G S. 25 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: We need bowling shirts that say as much on the 26 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: bad are you're feeling good? I'm feeling uh nauseous and dizzy? 27 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: Oh well, Chuck, did you happen to see somebody else 28 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: who is nauseous and dizzy? Well, Jerry was last week, 29 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: and then a few more people in the office, So 30 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: I just figured we all had the same thing. All right, 31 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna diagnose this, okay. It's called collective hysteria, also known, 32 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: I think more appropriately is mass psychogenic disorder. I think 33 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: when you add the word hysteria to this, it ticks 34 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: on certain dimensions that a lot of people could find 35 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: very objectionable, you know, hysterics, hysteria. It's like um dogs 36 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: and cats living together. Yeah, but I think it has 37 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: it has a definite um gender specific connotation to it 38 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: from over the years, like women were supposedly very hysterical. 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: So the the idea of diagnosing somebody as hysterical under 40 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: any circumstances. It's kind of it's had him out to 41 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: panning the patting him on the head. Yeah, here, nice lady, 42 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: you're you're just a little hysterical. Do you just go 43 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: calm down and bake something? Right? Yeah? Stop being crazy? 44 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: Uh no. Mass psychogenic disorder instead is just kind of like, whoa, 45 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: your brain just did something pretty neat, And that is 46 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: the case for mass psychogenic disorder if you ask me. Um. 47 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: In this article Chuck written by Jacob Silverman, Jeopardy champion, 48 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: Yeah well yeah, yeah, you won on Jeopardy. That makes 49 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: him a champion? Yeah, I think so. He wasn't like 50 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: the ultimate Champion, but he won a couple of episodes, right, 51 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: which is why they should have a word for. I 52 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: guess like the champion is like the one who won 53 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: at all Ken Jennings, Yeah, or um Watson, who's that 54 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: the IBM computer? Yeah, so Jeopardy winner. Jacob Silverman wrote 55 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: this article years back, and he did a pretty great 56 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: job of citing a contemporary outbreak of mass psychogenic disorder 57 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: that had been going on around that time down in Mexico, 58 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: down Mexico way in Chalco, Mexico at a boarding school. 59 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: There apparently was a girls boarding school and the girls 60 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: that went to school, they were just twelve to seventeen, 61 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, they started, well, there was 62 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: an outbreak, a weird outbreak. There was vomiting, I believe, 63 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: trouble walking. Um, there was fever, that's weird, nausea, and 64 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: so the the people running this boarding school like, um, 65 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: what's going on? This is not good? Yeah uh, and 66 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 1: they had no idea. The girls went on Christmas break 67 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: for ten days, came back, and the thing just took 68 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: off again like wildfire. Yeah, six hundred girls, um showed 69 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: these symptoms and nobody could figure it out. Um. They 70 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: did a lot of tests, they brought in people to 71 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: like check out the facilities, and because as you'll see, 72 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: there's a trend there. Um, you know here in the West, 73 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: they start to blame it, usually on um, like environmental 74 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: poisoning of some kind. Right, Um, you know there's some 75 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: sort of toxin present that is poisoned everybody. They didn't 76 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: find anything there, and eventually, um, they said, this is uh, 77 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: what do you call it? Psychosomatic? Mass psychogenic disorder? Okay, 78 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: mass psychogenic disorder, but No, that is one of the 79 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: one of the names of mass psychogenic disorder collective hysteria, 80 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: mass hysteria, or mass psychosomatic reaction. They're all saying the 81 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: same thing they are, which is you're not well, but 82 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: so you're not really sick. But that is not exactly true, 83 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: because that's one thing that differentiates this from something that's 84 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: just in your head, as you actually do manifest physical symptoms. Right. Yeah, 85 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: there's this article written by a m d Named Timothy F. 86 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Jones from the Tennessee Department of Health way back in 87 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: the heady days of two thousand, your two thousand the future, um, 88 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: and he writes that you, if you are experiencing mass 89 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: psychogenic disorder, it is not just in your head. That 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: the symptoms that you have are actually very real. Even 91 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: though there's no toxic cause they couldn't find some sort 92 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: of environmental poison or anything like that, the symptoms are 93 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: extremely real. Yeah, it's just psycho somatic. It's just basically 94 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: the brain has been tricked into causing this response. Yeah, 95 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 1: and this has happened. Um. They've documented about eighty cases 96 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: throughout history, and apparently the National Institutes of Health gets 97 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: about two cases per week reported. But um, which is 98 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like that's that's way more yeah, common than 99 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: than you would think. You know, yeah, I would think 100 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: there'd be more than eight, because I mean, these have happened. 101 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: If you go back and look at I mean, there's 102 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: all sorts of crazy list on the internet about these 103 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: cases that date back to like the fourteenth century medieval 104 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: dancing mania was one of them. Yeah, the dancing plague, Yeah, yeah, 105 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: that's in there. The Salem witchcraft trials or the Salem witchcraft. 106 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: I guess what led to the trials was UM supposedly 107 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: attributed to this kind of thing. Uh. One weird thing 108 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: about this condition is more times than not it is 109 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: affects females, Yeah, and young females even more specifically teenagers 110 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: or even younger, which is as far as it goes 111 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: right now, inexplicable UM. And it's kind of a prickly issue, 112 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, Like again you kind of come back to 113 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: the idea of calling it hysteria. You know the fact 114 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: that it does tend to afflict women or girls more 115 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: than them boys. UM is apparently one means of diagnosing 116 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: psychogenic disordered mass psychogenically that's like one of the first 117 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: things we'll say is like all this the sickness is 118 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: happening in this place, the school wherever, and the doctor 119 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: will say is it a bunch of girls? And then 120 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: that will clue them in that hey, this might be 121 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: what we're dealing with here and the but the problem 122 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: is no one has any idea why. And there have 123 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: been explanations of things like, um, uh, I guess girls 124 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: this is this is girls culturally acceptable outlet for raging 125 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: against the patriarchy. Sure, even if they don't necessarily feel 126 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: that that's what they're doing, this is there there? Uh, 127 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: this is the symptoms of that. That's one. Yeah, I 128 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: thought this was a pretty interesting part. What article was 129 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: that from Slate? Uh? There was h Yeah, one called 130 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: mass Asteria and Upstate New York by Ruth Graham was 131 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: on Slate. That was a good one. It was a 132 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: really good one. And we'll get to that case in 133 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: a sect. But um, I thought it was pretty interesting. 134 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: In one part it says, um, and this is a 135 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: quote from someone writing about something and said inform, if 136 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: not unconscious intent, it is to protest the sexual repressiveness, 137 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: rigid double standard of female team culture. Um. But they 138 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: were writing about Beatlemania, Yeah, which is interesting because it's 139 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: sort of has a similar vibe of uh, young ladies 140 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: being repressed, um, not having an outlet, and so they 141 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: see the Beatles and they go berserk and faint and 142 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: cry and scream collectively. Whereas boys they're more prone to 143 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: just act out if they're not feeling good. Girls are 144 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: trained to keep things inward. And they also point out 145 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: that ladies and young ladies are more prone to seek 146 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: a doctor's help for something. Um. They say that may 147 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: account for the bias right there, like guys just won't 148 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: go to the doctor exactly. You have to be careful though, 149 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: and in just diagnosing mass psychogenic disorder, you physicians out 150 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: there who are listening the encounter a case like this, um, 151 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: it just by basing it on the fact that it 152 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: is affecting more girls than boys. Because there's at least 153 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: one case in Great Britain where I think girls were 154 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: afflicted by more than half. More than double the number 155 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: of girls were afflicted by this, and it turned out 156 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: that they were retaining cucumbers being served in in the 157 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: lunch room. Yeah, and everyone knows boys hate cucumbers, and 158 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: so I mean this is they didn't need anyone, right, 159 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: But this is one of the issues with dealing with 160 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: UM mass psychogenic disorder, and that it looks and acts 161 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: a lot like some sort of weird epidemic. That basically 162 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: it looks like either a UM something like bioterrorism. Yeah, uh, 163 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: a rapidly spreading affection infection or affection of telemania and 164 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: then acute toxic exposure. That's what it looks like. It's 165 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: like one person gets sick, this is your index case, 166 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everyone around them suddenly has 167 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: the same symptoms. Yeah. And it's like you said, it's 168 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: super dangerous to just dismiss that as oh it's all 169 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: in your head, silly little ladies. Uh, you can't do 170 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: that because what if it is something for real? But 171 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: it's also a double edged sword, is that doctor pointed out, Um, 172 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: you start ordering batteries of tests and it it It 173 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: can go both ways. It can Um. What the old 174 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: saying is, if you order enough tests, you're gonna find 175 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: something so it can fuel that fire. But you all 176 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: so can't not run any tests and just dismiss it. Uh. 177 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: So it's a very fine line that physicians walk when 178 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: dealing with stuff like this. For sure. Indeed, apparently UM 179 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: study of mass psychogenic disorder has found that it's more 180 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: prevalent in isolated communities and in situations where um, they 181 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: are highly rigid, formalized structured rules, like a Catholic school 182 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: of Mexico exactly UM. Or again um Salem, Massachusetts in 183 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, you know. Um. And apparently between nineteen 184 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: seventy three and half of all the outbreaks of psychogenetic 185 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: or psychogenic illness took place in schools, so that that's 186 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: possibly in part by due to kids being susceptible to 187 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: it more um, but also because of that that rigid 188 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: formalized structure. Yeah. And there's also usually a top down effect, 189 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: like it'll start with a teacher or an older student, 190 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: and then the younger students follow suit, which if you're 191 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: talking influence, would make sense for sure. There was one 192 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: very famous case UM. Apparently there's not very many actual 193 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: academic studies on this, but there's one that came out 194 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: of the New England Journal of Medicine UM that that 195 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: described a case in Tennessee where a teacher noticed, um, 196 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: some weird gas odor, A gassy odor, uh, like the 197 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: chemical kind, Yeah, not like the guy on the front 198 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: road too, did right exactly um, and she apparently started 199 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: suffering symptoms. Uh, and all of a sudden, like a 200 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: hundred and eighties students and teachers had to go to 201 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: the emergency room. The school was shut down for two weeks. 202 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: That did all this environmental testing, couldn't find anything, and 203 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: finally traced it back to UM psychogenic a mass psychogenic disorder, 204 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: if that's what didn't and then everyone In most of 205 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: these cases we should point out everyone. It starts feeling better, yes, 206 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: like in Mexico, and then at school in Tennessee. It's 207 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: it's not like they went on to die or anything. Yeah. 208 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: So in the school in Mexico, the these girls were 209 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: at a boarding school. They were only allowed to see 210 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: their parents, I think like three times a year. Yeah, 211 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: they couldn't even call. It's like it sounds more like 212 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: a prison. They were allowed letters when they went home. 213 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: Immediately their symptoms cleared up. The problem is that doesn't 214 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: automatically say oh, well, it's obviously mass psychogenic disorder. It 215 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: could be an environmental toxin that they were being exposed 216 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: to still at the school and we're removed from. But 217 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: I think the the definite prognosis is mass psychogenic disorder 218 00:13:54,880 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: in this case. That's right. So the no Seebo effect 219 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: we talked about that and what the placebo effect, Well, 220 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, I was trying to be more clever. 221 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: I thought we were more clever than that. Uh, no cebo, 222 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: I think we said in that other podcast it was 223 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: Latin for eyeshall harm. And that's basically whereas you take 224 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: a placebo thinking it's going to help you out, and 225 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: it does help you out because the mind is powerful. 226 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: The no Seebo effect is thinking something bad will result, 227 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: like my teachers getting sick. I think I feel a 228 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: little sick too, and then oh, hey, my neighbor is 229 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: feeling a little sick. I think I'm feeling a little 230 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: sick too. Or this this drug trial that I'm on, 231 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: I was told that I could possibly get some sort 232 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: of gastro intestinal distress. Yeah, and even though I've been 233 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: given a sugar pill, I'm now going yeah because in 234 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: my mind because of the no cebo effect. Uh. There 235 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: was a famous experiment or case from six where there 236 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: was a woman who had a rose allergy and they 237 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: showed her an artificial rose and she began to I 238 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: guess it was convincing and she began to have her 239 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: allergic reaction and they said, ah, ha, it's fake and 240 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: you're faking, and uh she said, oh, well, I think 241 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm feeling better now, and supposedly that cured her of 242 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: her real allergy to real roses. I couldn't find a 243 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: lot to back that up. But is it it is 244 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: a story? Yeah, well no, that's a I mean it 245 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: was in I can't remember the journal, but it was 246 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: really Yeah, it was a real deal thing. And um, 247 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't I didn't get to the bottom of why 248 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: they presented this woman with a fake rose or whatever, 249 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: but they definitely didn't. This definitely happened. And um, the 250 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: the even the author of the study was saying, like 251 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: this woman, she wasn't faking. It was like she she 252 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: had real symptoms hives or hives exactly. I can see those. Um. 253 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: I think they call it like a rose cold or 254 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: something like that. You can get you know, stuffy, your 255 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: eyes are watering, your your nose is running, that kind 256 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: of thing. And what's interesting is some researchers have studied 257 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: the no cebo effect and they basically have isolated this 258 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: this chemical that gets released when the no cebo effects 259 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: going on. And again we should say it's not just 260 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: um making your nose runny or releasing histamines or anything 261 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: like that is pain too, Like you can you can 262 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: experience pain even though nothing's there to give you pain, 263 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: just because of the no cebo effect. What they found 264 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: was a um, A, I guess, uh, hormone, I believe 265 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: Are you ready? I'm going to try this one. Uh, 266 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: Cola cisto kinon. That sounds great, thanks man. I haven't 267 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: looked at the word, but it sounds right. Coli cisto kinon. Um. 268 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: Do you see it now? Yeah, that's totally right. I 269 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: totally did. So. It's a hormone, right, and it gets 270 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: released and it actually, um, it helps you experience pain. 271 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: So it's a nasty little hormone. But they found in 272 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: testing with the no cebo effect that if you block this, 273 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: you can also block the no sebo effect. So that 274 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: proves two things. Does that block pain though, like your 275 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: pain receptors. So does that mean if you slam your 276 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: hand in the door you won't feel it if you 277 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: can block this? Yes? So um, if you can block 278 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: Coli cisto knon, yes, it will keep you from um 279 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: hypersensitivity to pain, I believe. And this guy named Fabrizio 280 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: Benedetti I think was also in the Strokes Back. Yeah. 281 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: He uh. He was testing out the no eebo effect 282 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: and found that if he told people that he was 283 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: giving them an injection, which is it's a pretty cruel 284 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: test but effective. These post stop people who had just 285 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: come out of surgery. Uh, We're given an injection and 286 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: told this injection is going to increase your pain in 287 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: thirty minutes. I'm sorry, we have to give it to 288 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: it's part of the procedure. He gave some people an 289 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: injection of saline and they reported an increase in pain 290 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: and they all went behind the two way mirror and laughed, 291 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: right yeah, they're like yeah. And then they gave somebody, 292 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: like the other group, the control group, a chemical an 293 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: injection that blocks that pain. But they were told that 294 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: it was going to increase their pain. But they were 295 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: given a chemical that blocks coal is sister kinon, and 296 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: the cbo effect didn't take place. They didn't report an 297 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: increase in pain even though they were told they would. Yes, 298 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: so they So this guy is saying, like the no 299 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: cebo effect is like when when they say, it's not 300 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: just in your head. You're experiencing the same thing as 301 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: if you were experiencing somebody stabbing you. Well, what it 302 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: is really? You know, that's when you have to start 303 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: asking yourself those deep philosophical questions. Interesting. Um, there's another 304 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: case that's Have you ever seen the movie Safe, the 305 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: Todd Haynes movie with Julianne Moore. No, it's from like 306 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: the mid nineties, and she played a lady that um 307 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: started to have environmental sickness, um, just in the air, 308 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: and she's got sort of like increasingly um crazy as 309 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: the movie went on, as far as scrubbing things and 310 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: locking herself in her house and making her house a 311 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: clean environment. It was good and um there's there's a 312 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: true story though of a lady in London, UM named 313 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: Debbie Bird. She's a health spot manager that says that 314 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: she's allergic to E m F electro magnetic fields. And 315 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: it's an actual thing now you know, there's more than 316 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: her claiming. It's called e S electro magnetic sensitivity. Where 317 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: she has basically transformed her house. She painted it black. 318 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: She said she's allergic to computers, cell phones, microwaves. She 319 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: had her house rewired UH to make it basically e 320 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: M F free. Uh. She and her husband sleep under 321 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: a silver plated mosquito net to keep out radio waves 322 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: and covered all her windows with protective films, and she 323 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: said she feel a lot better now. So I saw that, Yes, 324 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: electromagnetic sensitivity, that if you expose somebody to a an 325 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: electromagnetic field and then just tell them that you are 326 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: and don't they have the same reaction, which would suggest 327 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: that it's it's no cibo. Well, it's super fascinating because 328 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: you cee cases like this from that to like gluten 329 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: sensitivity becoming a big thing now and people some people 330 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: contend that, well, it's maybe collective hysteria going on, and 331 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: if you think you're going to be sensitive to gluten, 332 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,479 Speaker 1: then you're gonna be sensitive to things that contain gluten. 333 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that people because that's a very 334 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: hot topic. Sure it is, but um, some people have 335 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: claimed that, well, we'll talk a little bit more about 336 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: things that exacerbate the mass psychogenic disorder and the no 337 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: cebo effect right after this, so chuck. Back in two 338 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: thousand seven, in New Zealand, UH, a drug called el 339 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: trokes in it was a pretty widespread drug in New Zealand. 340 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: It's a hormone replacement drug, and it was the only 341 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: one that the government would pay for, so most people 342 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: who were on this hormone replacement therapy, we're using l 343 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: trokes in. And it had been that way for like decades. 344 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: It was just an established trug Glaxos Smith client hormone 345 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: replacement Glaxo Smith Klin. I think just those there's no 346 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: welcome involved. Um changed just the like the outer the 347 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: inner qualities of it, like the shape of the pill, 348 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: the color um and I think that's about it. But 349 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: the the active ingredient was exactly the same in two 350 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: thousand seven, uh And when they released it, all of 351 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: a sudden, some reports of bad side effects were starting 352 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: to trickle in, and the government was like, wait, what's 353 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: going on here. It got a little bit of media 354 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: attention and more reports started trickling in, and then the 355 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: media attention grew, and the reports grew and grew, and 356 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: apparently the reporting of adverse effects of altrusin increased two 357 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: thousandfold in a year and a half because of the 358 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: look of the bill. Because of the look of the pill, 359 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: they went back and studied this, and they found that 360 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: in areas where there was more reporting about these adverse 361 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: effects being reported for all trucs, and the more adverse 362 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: effects were being reported in that area. And that kind 363 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: of reveals one of the um risk factors for mass 364 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: psychogenic disorder is the media. It's actually spread through the 365 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: media most easily. Yeah, they have a point, though, I mean, um, 366 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: I know in this article too, it points out that 367 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: pills that are blue and green are usually associated with drowsiness. 368 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: Pills that are orange or yellow are not. And I 369 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: don't know if that's why they market it that way 370 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: or if it's the opposite, as we just see it 371 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: that way because of products like niquil and day quill. 372 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: But the one that makes you sleepy is green and blue, 373 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: and the one that keeps you awake or keep you 374 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: awake but doesn't make you drowsy orange. I thought about it. 375 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, what do you associate with like 376 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: daytime sunrise? Yellow? Orange makes sense? What do you associate 377 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: with nighttime like something tranquil like blue? Yeah, Scotch gotch 378 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: Hamber Uh, yeah, I mean you think of that's what 379 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: I I think it came from. I think the pills 380 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: came after the association rather than the other way around. Yeah. 381 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: I think I even like when I get a prescription 382 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: for something, when I see the pill, I make a 383 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: judgment on it before I've even had it, just by saying, well, 384 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: don't look at that thing that Yeah, that's a horse pill, 385 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: or that's a capsule with you know, powdery stuff inside 386 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: that's different than the chalky one. It's you. I think 387 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: you just make an association. I don't think I have 388 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: any preconceived notions on what a larger pill will do 389 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: to me or a capsule will do to me other 390 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: than a tablet. But I think it's interesting, though, how 391 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: you make these judgment calls, but without even thinking about Yeah, 392 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: totally you know. I mean like you're you're you probably 393 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: don't sit there and look at a pill in your hand. 394 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: You just take it and just make some sort of, um, 395 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: almost unconscious judgments about it. Yeah, it may remind you 396 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: another pill that helps you that you're not even remembering exactly, 397 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: So that would be placebo. Yeah that's great. No cebo 398 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: effect not great. Poses no, and it poses a lot 399 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: of problems. For instance, there was a study I think 400 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: in the nineties that found that Women who believed that 401 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: they were prone to heart disease were four times likelier 402 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: to die of heart disease than women who didn't believe 403 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: they are prone to it, even though they had all 404 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: the exact same risk factors, basically the same risk risk factors. 405 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: There was nothing differentiating these women aside from a belief 406 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: that they were going to die from heart disease or 407 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: a belief that they weren't, and that led to a 408 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: four time four fold increase in deaths from that. Just 409 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: basically from a belief, is what it suggests. Yeah, we well, 410 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: it's sort of like the I know it's kind of cheesy, 411 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: but the p M A the positive mental attitude. I 412 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: think we've all know someone who walks around so and 413 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: so sick. Oh I know I'm going to get it. 414 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: I just know I'm going to get sick, or you know, 415 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: I just know I'm gonna get cancer because it runs 416 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: in my family. That I think that has an effect 417 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: on things. I have to agree. I know some of 418 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: our more skeptical listeners will are pulling their hair out 419 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: right now, but I totally agree with you. When we 420 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: did our show in Toronto on the way back, you 421 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: me and I flow out of Buffalo, and I was 422 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: feeling a little down, but like at the point where 423 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: I feel like you can talk yourself into staying healthy, 424 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: positive mental attitude. I guess that's what you call it. 425 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: But we were leaving right at about dusk, and the 426 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: sun was just beaming through the windows and illuminating every 427 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: single microbe visible microbe in the air. I could see 428 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: them like just going into my nose in my mouth, 429 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I couldn't stop, Like I couldn't. I 430 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: was like, I'm not gonna get sick. I'm not gonna 431 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: get sick. And man, did I ever get sick. But 432 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: I noticed that right when we took off, and no, 433 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: you know what it was. Somebody shut one of their 434 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: um their window covers. Oh the shade, shade exactly is 435 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: the word that I was looking for. Somebody shut their 436 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: shade and I couldn't see it anymore, and I immediately 437 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: started to feel less symptomatic. Immediately, it was like turning 438 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: off a light. And I still got sick, but I 439 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: was just drowning. And basically what my brain was interpreting 440 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: is like being assaulted by foreign invaders, which I am 441 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: all the time, but I normally can't see them. Yeah, 442 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: well I've done I do that all the time when 443 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: I opened my uh the curtains in the bedroom and 444 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: I'll see you in the morning. I'll see that stuff 445 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: in the air and I just think, oh, man, that's 446 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: what I'm walking around breathing in everything. Dog hair and 447 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: cat hair and Emily hair. So your lungs are just 448 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: chocked full of it. So one of the one of 449 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: the problems this poses chuck for physicians is that we 450 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: expect doctors, or we want doctors to be transparent, to 451 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: not lie to us. Yeah, we've talked a lot about 452 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: this lately. I feel like, yeah, we've talked a lot 453 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: about diseases. Some of our um I pochondriac listeners have 454 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: been like police talking about diseases because now I've got Morgellons, 455 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have like some sort of toxic exposure. Um 456 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: and then very soon leprosy spoiler. So uh, the problem 457 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: is is if you tell somebody that's going into surgery, hey, 458 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: by the way, um, you know you you might have 459 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: trouble walking, you might feel nauseous for the next six months. 460 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: You like, all this stuff that could be associated with 461 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: which we demand from our doctors. It's been shown that 462 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: if you are fearful or in despair going into surgery, 463 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: that's associated with longer healing times and a higher risk 464 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: of post operative infection. Right, So, if you have the 465 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: no cebo effect where doctors are saying, okay, if I 466 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: tell somebody, And it's been proven time after time that 467 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: in drug trials, people who are still are given placebo 468 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: will drop out of drug trials because they're experiencing these 469 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: negative side effects even though they're given the sugar pill. So, 470 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: if you're a doctor and you you know that you 471 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: are telling somebody something that ultimately may end up harming them, 472 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: and you've sworn an oath to do no harm, you've 473 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: got a conundrum going on right now. And that's what 474 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: the no cebo effect poses. It's the problem the no 475 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: cebo effect poses for modern physicians, like how much should 476 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: they tell you? If you're gonna tell somebody that they're 477 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: gonna feel nauseous for six months even though they probably won't, 478 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: should you tell them and give them a chance to 479 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: to basically have the psychosymatic symptom, or tell them they're 480 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: going to feel great. Well, that's another one. Somebody says, 481 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: the solution to this is just frame it differently, Like, 482 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: don't say there's a chance you're gonna have um nausea 483 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: for six months. Say half of a percent of patients 484 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: who go through the same procedure that you're about to 485 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: go through have nausea for six months ninety nine point 486 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: five percent. Don't write you're giving them the same information. 487 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: It's just framework positively. Yeah, and uh that one doctor 488 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: who wrote the article on collectivist area said, Um, what 489 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: he recommends is not naming the illness said that can 490 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: help out. Um, because as soon as you give something 491 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: a name, then it just instantly you know you have 492 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: something you can call it and everyone's calling it that, 493 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: or the media picks up on it and it's a thing. Yeah, 494 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: and that's actually again one of the one of the 495 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: risk factors in the spread of mass psychogenic illness is 496 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: the larger the response, the emergency medical response to it, 497 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,719 Speaker 1: and then hence the larger the media response to it, 498 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: the larger the outbreak tends to be. It's called line 499 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: of sight exposure. Just knowing somebody is sick or seeing 500 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: somebody sick can give you the same symptoms. I'm sure 501 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: if you can see a news story that all the 502 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: other news agencies are running that says, uh, there's been 503 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: some weird chemical leak in the air in Atlanta. Uh, 504 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: people are gonna start walking around and coughing and saying, 505 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm not feeling so good. I have a bitter taste 506 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: in my mouth. There's microbes everywhere. Well, here's a case 507 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: from that article you sent that I think is super fascinating, 508 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: the one in upstate New York. Because it is not 509 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,239 Speaker 1: a rash or um a cough for nausea, it is 510 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: tourette syndrome. Sixteen year old UM, young lady named Laurie Brownwell, uh, 511 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: what year was this? A couple of years ago? Yeah, 512 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: not too long ago, I think two. Um in Corinth, 513 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: New York. Um was at her school's homecoming dance and 514 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: lost consciousness. Um, this is after she had banged at 515 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: a concert. Sorry, man, I thought you were gonna leave 516 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: out like the best part. Yeah, she was headbanging at 517 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: a concert. I wish into a concert that was so 518 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: me too. I didn't find it anywhere. Apparently passed out 519 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: there and had passing outfits. Uh, involuntary twitching and clapping, 520 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: started twisting, her hair, fluttering, her fingers, hey, hey, hey, 521 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: starting stuff like that, and the doctor said, you know what, 522 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: You've got turette syndrome. So Tourette's syndrome is is We've 523 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: had a podcast on It's a real thing and it's 524 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: not psychosomatic. Um. But uh, since that time, fourteen other 525 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: students along with her, thirteen girls and one boy started 526 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: exhibiting at Leroy Junior High School. I'm sorry, Junior Senior 527 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: High School started coming down with threats, right, which is 528 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: not contagious and is not contagious at all. Um. Aaron 529 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 1: Brockovitch got on the case, um, famous environmental activists, and 530 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: she said, no, I think this has got to do 531 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: with this train derailment from nineteen seventy that dumped cyanide 532 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: all over this town. Um, and I didn't see where 533 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: they found any uh legitimate effects. Right. Again, That's the 534 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: confounding thing about mass psychogenic disorders, that it is still 535 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: possible that there is some weird toxin in the environment 536 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: that is causing this, Like maybe there was exposure to 537 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: cyanide that in these people's brains and all gave them turette. 538 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: And if you stand back and look at it, you're 539 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: like to Tourette syndrome isn't contagious. That doesn't mean that 540 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: you can't all come down with Tourette syndrome from exposure 541 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: to a toxic It's just still it's this X factor 542 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: that's out there that you can't just necessarily rule out. 543 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: Which Yeah, and I believe in that case too. The 544 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: um those fourteen students didn't end up with Tourette syndrome. 545 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: That was a good episode, man. I love Turette syndrome one. Yeah. 546 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: It's an oldie, oldie, but a goodie. And it all 547 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: came from him banging. That's how it started at a 548 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: Nickelback show. Yeah, because Corinth is near Canada. Canada isn't 549 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: let nickel Back out any longer? Really? Are they caged 550 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: in there? Nice? Uh? There's another case of the toxic Lady. 551 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: Did you hear this one? And Riverside, California woman named 552 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: Gloria Ramirez. Um. Yeah, she was dubbed the Toxic Lady 553 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: in n She had cervical cancer and was being tree 554 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: did and all the medical staff started to get sick 555 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: that was treating her. Um. This sounds gross, but they 556 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: said her body exuded a garlicky fruity smell, and her 557 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: blood had flecks of what looked like paper um, which 558 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: sounds called Morglon's actually nice, you like that um. And 559 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: they said that most of the people that got sick 560 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: while treating her were women, more women than men, and 561 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: they all took blood test and came back normal, and 562 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: the health department said mass hysteria. So that's funny because 563 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: I looked, I remembered that story, and I was like, 564 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if that was mass hysteria. And I looked 565 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: it up and I found that No, it was an 566 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: environmental toxic Oh it was, That's what I found. So 567 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: they called it mass ysteria at the time, and then 568 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: later found out, I think like a year or two later, 569 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: she was using some sort of salve or something on 570 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: her skin and they think that in interactive with her 571 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: biochemistry and really did produce toxic toxic gas. She said 572 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: it maybe this fruit garlic sav exactly. That's interacting badly 573 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: with I pancreas. O. Well, uh, this list needs to 574 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: be updated that that, dude, that is a fascinating case. 575 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: People got really sick from that. I think I remember 576 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: hearing about that too. Yeah. Well, I'm glad they found 577 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: a real cause in that case from what I understand, 578 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: But that's that's that's the point. Like you can say, well, 579 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: obviously there's women were more affective than men, right, Well, 580 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: is that because there's more women in the nursing profession 581 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: and there were more nurses in the room. There's a 582 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: lot of different things you have to take into account 583 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: before you just write it off. Sometimes it is real, 584 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: Like sick building syndrome. Yeah, that's a tough one because 585 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: after the Opeque oil embargo, apparently people started designing buildings 586 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 1: to be more air tight, so your ventilation ventilation system 587 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: was really important, and these buildings have an aged necessarily 588 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: very well, so the ventilation system is not doing what 589 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: it's supposed to any longer, and so they think possibly 590 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: that's leading to what we know as sick building syndrome, 591 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: which is more lays it's when you don't feel good 592 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: when you go to work exactly. But some studies have 593 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: found like no, that is the better predictor of sick 594 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: building syndrome is job stress or job dissatisfaction. Um, if 595 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: you have a building full of people who don't like 596 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 1: their jobs, you're gonna have a building full of people 597 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: with sick building syndrome. But if you go on to 598 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: say like a local government's website or whatever, and you 599 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: look at sick building syndrome, it's a it's treated as 600 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: a real thing. Yeah, well, it definitely affects your gastro 601 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: intestinal like stress does well. Also, apparently it can set 602 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: off bouts of asthma um, which is another reason why 603 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: they think it might have something to do with like 604 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: volatile organic compounds in the ventilation system or new carpeting, 605 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff offcasting. Man, you you smell that 606 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: stuff when you open up a new product. Right. There's 607 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: also the dancing plague, which we mentioned briefly. Tell me 608 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: about it. Uh Fraul Trophia July four, eighteen went out 609 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: on the streets of Strasbourg, France, and started dancing even 610 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: though there was no music, and dancing like a maniac 611 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: for three straight days, and all these people started dancing 612 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,919 Speaker 1: with her, saying this is a good time. Um said. 613 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: Within a month a hundred people were dancing with her 614 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: and couldn't stop and hyperventilating, hallucinating, some drop dead of 615 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 1: heart attack and stroke and exhaustion. And the authority said, 616 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: let's just hire a band and let him dance, dance 617 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: it out because they've got the hot blood, is what 618 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: they called it. And so they did, and um, a 619 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: lot of people died as a result. It said four 620 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: dred people in the end were struck. Uh. I don't 621 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: think they died, but we're dancers. And then it just stopped, 622 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: and that's when they blame a lot of people blame 623 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: on ergot poisoning, which we've mentioned before, poisoning, and those 624 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: people are clearly tripping on something. They got the hot blood. 625 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: But what it sounds like you just described is basically 626 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 1: how Tom Hanks invented jogging in the seventies. Yogging. Yeah. Yeah, 627 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: he just started running and people started following. I I 628 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: wish that part had been cut out of that movie. Yeah. 629 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 1: I thought that it was a weird thing that should 630 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: have been on the editing room floor. They really kind 631 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: of derailed things for a while for me. I don't 632 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: think that movie's age well though. Uh. Other people say 633 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 1: though that it was Sydenham's Korea disorder linked to strep 634 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,439 Speaker 1: throughout and rheumatic fever that causes dance like twitches. Um. 635 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: And then of course modern medical historians say it was 636 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: mass psychosis. I would go with that one. Yeah, I 637 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: mean back then it made more sense though, when during 638 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: the Salem witch trials and before they knew anything about 639 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: medicine and you could just say you got the hot 640 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: blood or you're having the fits, like yeah, exactly. These 641 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: modern cases the ones that really freaked me out because 642 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: so much as explainable. Now here's the thing that chuck. 643 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: We've always explained. It was something that comes easily to mind. 644 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: So back in the day before science and medicine, it 645 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: was the will possessing you. And don't think that people 646 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: weren't freaked out when they thought that the devil was 647 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: there and possessing people in the same way that you know, 648 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: you're freaked out by the idea that it's cyanide in 649 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: the soil from a train derailment, from just exactly, which 650 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: is the deadliest of all the manias, but it's just 651 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 1: as real to the experiencer. And it all comes down 652 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: to people just basically being sick of the establishment and 653 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: letting loose for a while. I don't want to go 654 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 1: to work nice, so I'll dance. Have you got anything else? Uh, no, sir. 655 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about collective hysteria, which 656 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: is the name of this article. It typed those words 657 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: in the search bar at how stuff works dot com 658 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: and it will bring it up. And I said, search 659 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: bars means it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call 660 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: this UM episode on Grief. We've got a lot of 661 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: great feedback and that continue. Uh, they continue to roll in. Hey, guys, 662 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: just dumbled upon your podcast through my tune in radio app. 663 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: I guess that's a mini plug. We're available there now. Um, 664 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: I've devoured almost all of the six D plus shows. 665 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: May be a new listener, but I'm already a lifelong fan. 666 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: So why I'm writing in guys is I lost my 667 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: twin sister back in two thousand ten. It was a 668 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: rough time because as a fraternal twin me being the boy, 669 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: I looked at her not only as a sister, but 670 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: as a mother and friend. Too. Long story short, I 671 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: wanted to comment on the Grief Show some time ago. 672 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: I've dealt with my grief through my artwork. I'm a 673 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: small town artist from Johnson City, Tennessee, and I rarely 674 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: can get noticed or any attention with my art. I 675 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,959 Speaker 1: wanted to share my new piece I've just finished. After 676 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: listening to how comic books work. I'm a huge fan 677 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: of Marvel comics and I hope you both enjoy this. 678 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: And he sent this really cool. I think it was 679 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: like every member of the Marvel universe had to be 680 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: in this picture that he did. I didn't see that one. 681 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: It's really really neat, just jam packed full of Marvel 682 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: comic heroes and villains. Um. So, Josh and Chuck, thanks 683 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: for the inspiration. Last and getting through every day at 684 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: the office at p S. My twin Jessica passed away 685 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: from epilepsy actually a condition called sue dep Sudden unexplained 686 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: death of epilepsy. My mother is trying to raise awareness 687 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: because November is epilepsy Awareness month. So if you guys 688 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind mentioning this on the show, she would be 689 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: so happy for that. Also, an epilepsy show would be 690 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: cool too. Um. Not a lot is discussed about it, 691 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: and that is Jason Flack and Jason wrote you back 692 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: that is heartbreaking about your twin sister. Very sorry to 693 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,919 Speaker 1: hear that, um, and we will definitely do a show 694 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: on epilepsy. And since this is November, though, people should 695 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: go out and find out what they can during National 696 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: Epilepsy month. We'll follow up with the show. I don't 697 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: know if it'll be in November, but we'll get to 698 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: that one for sure. And thanks for that piece of art. 699 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: And if anyone is interested in a great comic book 700 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: artist from Johnson City, Tennessee, do a lot worse than 701 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: Jason Flack. Jason, thank you very much for sharing that 702 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: with everybody. That means a lot to us. If you 703 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: want to share with us and all of our listeners 704 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: out there, you can tweet to us at s y 705 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook, dot 706 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: com slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us 707 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: an email with attached artwork to stuff Podcast at how 708 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at 709 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: at home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com. 710 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 711 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i Heart 712 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 713 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: favorite shows.