Speaker 1: Welcome to season four. Everybody. This is season four of
Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea. Thank you for helping make us a sweet success. Okay,
Speaker 1: hello Catherine, Hi Chelsea, Hi, what's well? My god? Season four,
Speaker 1: so many things have happened.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I feel like these little communities are for me. People
Speaker 3: are reaching out to each other. I can't tell you
Speaker 3: how many times somebody will hear someone call in and
Speaker 3: they contact me and they'll be like, listen, I have
Speaker 3: the perfect solution for them, or I can connect them
Speaker 3: with someone who can help them. And so I passed
Speaker 3: their little email along and it's just really wonderful.
Speaker 1: I wish Bernice could call in. Oh my dog, I
Speaker 1: wish she could call in because I want to know
Speaker 1: what's on her mind. All I know is all I
Speaker 1: know is I love her. Ever since Bert passed away,
Speaker 1: Slash got put down only because it was the end
Speaker 1: of the road, not because I wanted to get rid
Speaker 1: of him. Can you imagine if he pissed me off
Speaker 1: and I just put him down Anyway, Bernice has been
Speaker 1: a eat hert. Just the last night she was in bed.
Speaker 1: I usually have to force her up into my bed,
Speaker 1: which I had to stop doing because she had this
Speaker 1: really wicked cough. And I say wicked because I'm from
Speaker 1: Boston and the Boston area, but she had this really
Speaker 1: wicked cough and I was like, God, is she getting
Speaker 1: like second hand smoke from all my joints? And then
Speaker 1: I was like, is she smoking her own joints?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then I sent her the doctor and they kept giving
Speaker 1: her cough medicine, cough medicine, and cough pills, and I
Speaker 1: was like, it's not a cough, it's deeper than that.
Speaker 1: So then we took her to another VET and they
Speaker 1: found out that she has a collapsed trachea, which they
Speaker 1: kind of intimated. Carla, my assistant, kind of tried to
Speaker 1: make it like it was my fault for picking her
Speaker 1: up her whole life. And I told Carla to just
Speaker 1: take it down a notch and shut the front door,
Speaker 1: because that I don't pick her up by her fucking throat,
Speaker 1: first of all. Secondly, so now when I go up,
Speaker 1: she goes up to doggy stairs, I put a leash
Speaker 1: on her. I guide her up, you know, to trapper
Speaker 1: like a lobster. But now last night and this has
Speaker 1: been happening. Yeah, she when I come back for my tour,
Speaker 1: weekends because you know, I've been on my tour. I
Speaker 1: come back and she comes, I guide her up the
Speaker 1: steps and she doesn't go down. Now, oh, she woke
Speaker 1: up like three times last night and she was like.
Speaker 1: I was like, I put the light on so she
Speaker 1: could see the steps so she could go down, you know,
Speaker 1: to her doggy bed. But then she just looked at me,
Speaker 1: circled back around, dug her feet in, and went back
Speaker 1: to sleep. So she's been sleeping with me through the night,
Speaker 1: which is I've never ever had this experience. When Bert
Speaker 1: was alive, nice and you know, she again, like any
Speaker 1: marginalized woman, she has been marginalized. And since Bert is
Speaker 1: gone and he required so much attention and cuteness and neediness.
Speaker 4: They get like mad at you, they get I think.
Speaker 3: Mimsy's like still mad at me, me specifically forgetting these
Speaker 3: two puppies.
Speaker 1: She forget mad at you, and I won't. I was
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I got to get another puppy
Speaker 1: because I like to have two. But I'm going to
Speaker 1: wait until the fall a because that's irresponsible because I'm
Speaker 1: going to be traveling a lot during the summer and
Speaker 1: be I want this time alone with my daughter. Now
Speaker 1: I understand it's true.
Speaker 3: Like I definitely feel I have a lot of like
Speaker 3: mother's guilt of I'm not spending enough time with Mimsy
Speaker 3: and now that the puppies are like the squeaky wheels
Speaker 3: in my face all the time. So I'm working on that,
Speaker 3: like taking her frextra walks, giving her actual love, which
Speaker 3: she like also sometimes doesn't want because she's like, I
Speaker 3: just want to like snuggle you, I don't want you
Speaker 3: to snuggle me back.
Speaker 1: She's very that.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, she like wants to be like between
Speaker 3: your legs, but like she won't be in your front nook.
Speaker 3: She won't be spooned.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a hook. Oh my god, front, she
Speaker 1: can't be in your front nook. Now translation under your
Speaker 1: arm everyone, exactly. You didn't see Catherine's gesticulation, so to
Speaker 1: understand exactly what that meant. Yeah, but I appreciate the
Speaker 1: one on one time and she's so sweet Bernice, and
Speaker 1: I just love her so much, and I'm just so
Speaker 1: grateful that I have dogs. In other non knin news,
Speaker 1: I got these glasses, these progressive glasses. I got about
Speaker 1: six pair maid three sunglasses and three regular glasses. And
Speaker 1: the guy explained to me that the top part is
Speaker 1: for to see distance, the middle part is to see intermediate.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck is intermediate? And the bottom
Speaker 1: part is for a close up. But when I sit
Speaker 1: on a plane, if I look down the print on
Speaker 1: the book because I like to read on my plane rides, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to hold my head in a certain way
Speaker 1: so that it makes the print readable. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: don't like these. And a lot of people warn me
Speaker 1: about these, and I'm going to take them all back
Speaker 1: and have them. I want bifocals, is what I want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just two, not three.
Speaker 1: I don't need three compartments. And by the way, he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I put a prescription on the top.
Speaker 1: I go, there is no prescription on the top. I've
Speaker 1: had lasik And he said, no, there's a light prescription.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't think that there is. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess ophthalmologists are right up there with
Speaker 1: veterinarians in my book. Yeah. They don't seem to have
Speaker 1: a real concrete answer to anything. Everything's vague. Why would
Speaker 1: you need intermediate seeing? Like between distance and short sighted?
Speaker 1: Why do you need to see another subthence.
Speaker 3: There famously have only been two for a very long time.
Speaker 1: Yea, so I guess people don't like the line in
Speaker 1: the bifocal. I don't give a shit, though, I mean
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be how old are I forty eight? I
Speaker 1: mean at a certain point, I just have to give up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Brad had that happened once where he went to
Speaker 3: a new optometrist and this guy was like, no, no,
Speaker 3: I know your real prescription. All of the doctors you've
Speaker 3: been seeing for the last fifteen years are wrong.
Speaker 1: That's like when you get your bras fitted. You know,
Speaker 1: someone's like, oh, these are the brods. This is gonna
Speaker 1: be the bra that fits you, and it is for
Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes, and then after you wear it,
Speaker 1: you're like, no, my tits look like what.
Speaker 4: Are these cones?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, forties? Look where my tits look pointy? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And you just get stabbed in weird spots and it's
Speaker 3: no good.
Speaker 5: I don't know about bro fitting, but definitely I've been
Speaker 5: wearing glasses since like third grade. And this doctor was like, oh, hey,
Speaker 5: you know what your prescription. Let your eyes do the work.
Speaker 5: Let your eyes work for it. And then he gave
Speaker 5: me this prescription that was less so everything was blurry
Speaker 5: and I had to like squint it everything that doesn't
Speaker 5: make any fucking sense.
Speaker 1: Yeh, work for what? And then also, you know my
Speaker 1: favorite book, Letting Go by David Hawkings. In it, he
Speaker 1: talks about letting go of the fact that you can't
Speaker 1: see and just not wearing glasses and that his vision
Speaker 1: miraculously came back to him. So I try that for
Speaker 1: about a month not to not That's the only section
Speaker 1: of the book. I'm like, listen, buddy, I don't know
Speaker 1: what kind of magic you're working.
Speaker 2: You guys are just like bootstrapping your eyes.
Speaker 1: My corny is just going to repair itself because I've
Speaker 1: decided to let go. If you believe enough, it will.
Speaker 1: But I am in a great meditation zone. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really feeling my meditations lately. I do that. I've
Speaker 1: been doing my Chopra app and I do these courses,
Speaker 1: but you know, sometimes you don't really feel it. You
Speaker 1: just feel like you're sitting there thinking. But I'm really
Speaker 1: able to like stop my thoughts and I'm like going
Speaker 1: to this like place, like this light place. It's very reliable,
Speaker 1: and now I'm craving it. I mean, this has been
Speaker 1: I don't know how many years I've been meditating, probably
Speaker 1: like four or five now, but it's been great. But
Speaker 1: I'm in a zone right now and I'm liking it
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Do you what's it called when you can like cast
Speaker 3: your spirit somewhere else.
Speaker 1: That's what I feel like. That's what you're doing, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not in my body.
Speaker 5: Astral projection.
Speaker 1: Yes, astral projection. Is that about my asshole?
Speaker 4: That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: Astral projection. Well, that's what I think I'm doing anyway,
Speaker 1: Who knows if that's what I'm doing, But it feels
Speaker 1: like I'm not in my body, like I'm in some
Speaker 1: light filled atmosphere with my mom and my brother. They're
Speaker 1: always with me, so that's fine.
Speaker 3: I love that visit them anytime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I picture my mom like a little nimph flying around,
Speaker 1: like a little sphinx or Noah sphinx or nymph a
Speaker 1: fairy very It's like that Greek mythology thing, like when
Speaker 1: they fly around and bright yeaes spright. That's what I
Speaker 1: think of.
Speaker 3: And Chelsea, you're about to be traveling a bunch and
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 1: Just announced new stand updates for My Little Big Bitch
Speaker 1: tour guys, I announced twenty five new cities. These are
Speaker 1: probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning
Speaker 1: in the comments. I start out in East Hampton, I
Speaker 1: go to New York, d C. During North Carolina, La, Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Millwalky, Chicago, Madison, Portland,
Speaker 1: to name just some. I will be performing at the
Speaker 1: Kennedy Center everybody that's in DC October sixth. I'm super
Speaker 1: psyched to be performing there. There are more. You can
Speaker 1: go to Chelseahandler dot com. I am on tour. I
Speaker 1: have dates coming up for the next three months and
Speaker 1: then more dates coming up in the fall. So those
Speaker 1: have all been announced. They're on my Instagram page, or
Speaker 1: you can go to Chelsea Hamler dot com. Thank you
Speaker 1: our first guest of season four, someone who has been
Speaker 1: getting a ton of attention because she has been very
Speaker 1: loud and proud about her transition into girlhood and I
Speaker 1: am loving it up and I'm loving her Instagram. So
Speaker 1: please welcome Dylan mulvaney. Hi, Dylan Mulvaaney in person and
Speaker 1: looking beautiful as ever.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Chelsea Handler.
Speaker 1: So excited to finally meet you.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I got to tell you, this is
Speaker 4: a full circle moment. I grew up when I was
Speaker 4: about thirteen, fourteen years old, this you know, gay boy
Speaker 4: pre transition.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 4: I had a friend group called the Harlot's and it
Speaker 4: was me and a bunch of girls, bad bitches, and
Speaker 4: we used to pass your books around and that's how
Speaker 4: we learned about sex. Oh and and so I texted
Speaker 4: them all. It had been a while since i've you know,
Speaker 4: talked with them, but I said, You're never going to
Speaker 4: believe what I'm going to see today. So I just
Speaker 4: really it's it's a very full circle moment.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad to hear that Dylan has gained
Speaker 1: a lot of notoriety and popularity on her TikTok series
Speaker 1: Becoming a Girl or is it Being a Girl?
Speaker 4: Days of Girlhood?
Speaker 1: Days of Girlhood.
Speaker 4: We just hit day three sixty five a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you had a big celebrate.
Speaker 4: I did a big show musical Baby, I'm Broadway singing,
Speaker 4: dancing and acting.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, talk about a full circle moment. Yes,
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you so many questions, but
Speaker 1: let's just start about gaining the confidence and the self
Speaker 1: assuredness to follow your pursuit of becoming the real person
Speaker 1: that you wanted to be.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, when I was four years old, I came to
Speaker 4: my mom and I said, Mom, I think I'm a girl.
Speaker 4: And you know, we grew up very Catholic, very conservative.
Speaker 1: And so where'd you grow up?
Speaker 4: The outskirts of San Diego, Okay, and a little town
Speaker 4: called Alpine. And I was a boy in a dance
Speaker 4: studio at age three, you know, only boy there dancing,
Speaker 4: and and but I came to my mom and I
Speaker 4: said this, and she said, well, God doesn't make mistakes.
Speaker 4: And this was the year two thousand and so there
Speaker 4: really weren't many resources at all, except you know, the
Speaker 4: only transness we got to see was a sex worker
Speaker 4: on NCIS that had been hurt. You know, we hadn't
Speaker 4: seen trans people experiencing success or happiness or you know.
Speaker 4: It was I don't resent my family or even myself
Speaker 4: for not allowing me to become this woman that I
Speaker 4: am now, because this was all part of the journey.
Speaker 4: And finally, you know, these those gender thoughts, I pushed
Speaker 4: them away because when I was starting to discover my sexuality,
Speaker 4: which is a different thing than gender, I thought that
Speaker 4: being gay was that the end of the world. I thought, really,
Speaker 4: it doesn't, you know, it can't get any worse. And
Speaker 4: so transnis wasn't even allowed to be in my mind.
Speaker 4: And so I came out as gay at fourteen.
Speaker 1: But when you said to your mother that you were four,
Speaker 1: When you were four, you said, I feel I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm a girl, and and she just was like,
Speaker 1: God doesn't make any mistakes. And that was it.
Speaker 4: We did some you know, I went to some therapy
Speaker 4: and again a very different time, so I'm not resentful
Speaker 4: at all, right, But it was then at the pandemic,
Speaker 4: I was touring with a Broadway musical called The Book
Speaker 4: of Mormon.
Speaker 1: And ironic it's wild.
Speaker 4: But I was spent my whole life, you know, doing theater,
Speaker 4: playing these male roles, and there was no room even
Speaker 4: in that industry to be trans and so once the
Speaker 4: pandemic hit, it was the first time that I didn't
Speaker 4: even have to see myself playing a part. I was like,
Speaker 4: who is Dylan really without theater and religion and all
Speaker 4: these things that had been put on me. And I
Speaker 4: was a really feminine little boy growing up, and I
Speaker 4: felt like I stripped parts of myself away for so
Speaker 4: many years that I'm now finding again, and I think
Speaker 4: that's been the most beautiful part, is getting to finally
Speaker 4: give into those those feelings and those desires and those
Speaker 4: outfits and whatever it might be that brings me euphoria.
Speaker 4: But during the pandemic, I was like, Okay, let's reopen
Speaker 4: that question of gender and I identified as non binary
Speaker 4: for about a year went by. They then pronouns, and
Speaker 4: it still was not where I was supposed to be,
Speaker 4: and I think it was so daunting making that jump
Speaker 4: from being a man to then that trans woman title
Speaker 4: scared the shit out of me. And it's so funny.
Speaker 4: I don't usually curse, but I'm around you and I
Speaker 4: kind of feel like I want to let this a
Speaker 4: little bit happens, but you have that influence. I thought,
Speaker 4: you know, non binary moment of my life was kind
Speaker 4: of this little cloud that I got to land on
Speaker 4: for a hot second, and it was not the end
Speaker 4: of my my journey. That's when I finally accepted. Actually,
Speaker 4: I started hormones while I was non binary to you know,
Speaker 4: feminize my body, and then I took on that sheep
Speaker 4: pronoun and it feels so good.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear that you followed, you were
Speaker 1: able to pursue what you felt was necessary to be
Speaker 1: a complete human being. And I think what people's resistances
Speaker 1: to transgender people, to the whole LGBTQII community is that
Speaker 1: it's different from what they know, and anything that's different
Speaker 1: than what anybody knows is scares them for some reason,
Speaker 1: because it's the same reason people want to hold onto
Speaker 1: power and don't want to give equality to everybody because
Speaker 1: they're scared of what they may lose and their lack
Speaker 1: of understanding. Instead of looking at it as a huge
Speaker 1: growth opportunity to be like, oh my God, tell me everything.
Speaker 1: I want to understand you better. Right, it doesn't come.
Speaker 4: At the front well, and they you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of people don't have a Dylan in their lives to
Speaker 4: ask questions. And I think that's kind of why I
Speaker 4: got online too, was because I wanted to be that
Speaker 4: friend for people. I wanted to show that I'm not
Speaker 4: some monster. And it's sad that there are still so
Speaker 4: many people that are trying to use this really beautiful
Speaker 4: journey against me and twisting my words and taking things
Speaker 4: out of context. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: like I'm happier than I ever have been because I could.
Speaker 4: I can't imagine going back to that other person. It
Speaker 4: breaks my heart to think about.
Speaker 1: Hmm, yeah, I would imagine. So so how do you
Speaker 1: reconcile that? Like when you look back at your former
Speaker 1: life before you became a woman, how do you frame
Speaker 1: that time?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 4: I try to actually think about it in a very
Speaker 4: positive I always do glass half full. Everything that has
Speaker 4: happened before transition that was supposed to happen, that was
Speaker 4: part of my story. I was learning things and now
Speaker 4: I feel like now it's all icing on the cake
Speaker 4: because I actually got to the cake finally. But I
Speaker 4: just I don't want to ever resent. You know, there
Speaker 4: are sometimes the mindset of like every day before you
Speaker 4: know I came out was absolutely horrible. But no, I
Speaker 4: had some good times in my life, but I just
Speaker 4: hadn't entered my full potential at all. You know, when
Speaker 4: you're locked into yourself right and you're like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is who I am. This feels right. My intuition has
Speaker 4: never been more alive within myself. So I'm just I'm
Speaker 4: trying to stay strong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you will be strong. You're already strong.
Speaker 1: Thank you, you know, and there's always going to be
Speaker 1: bumps in the road and things will happen that will
Speaker 1: feel like you're getting off course. But it's up to
Speaker 1: you to remain steadfast and true to who you are
Speaker 1: and to follow your truth because your truth is unlike
Speaker 1: anyone else's and people have an easy time forgetting that.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about what it
Speaker 1: takes to actually transition, because that is another argument for
Speaker 1: the reason that people wouldn't be doing it. It's not easy.
Speaker 1: It's not easy to transition. It's not easy to change
Speaker 1: your sex that you were born with or to feel
Speaker 1: like you're not the person that you were meant to be.
Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about that.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 4: I really get upset when people say, you know, she
Speaker 4: woke up one day and just decided she wanted to
Speaker 4: be a girl, Like this was not a decision, This
Speaker 4: was who every fiber of my being. And I put
Speaker 4: in a lot of frickin' effort and a lot of
Speaker 4: you know, mental gymnastics, a lot of therapy, a lot
Speaker 4: of soul searching to do this, and it is something
Speaker 4: that I don't take lightly. I think that this journey
Speaker 4: that I'm on you know, going on hormones. Those were
Speaker 4: all huge decisions that I had to make and very
Speaker 4: private ones. And while you know, every transition looks completely different,
Speaker 4: you know, there are trans people that aren't on hormones
Speaker 4: or that might choose not to get surgeries. But for
Speaker 4: those of us who need those things for our dysphoria,
Speaker 4: we need access to them and that we can't be
Speaker 4: vilified for needing those things.
Speaker 1: Right, And you recently had facial feminization, right, oh babe,
Speaker 1: I feel it's good, right, yeah, yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 4: And my biggest thing about sharing that process online was
Speaker 4: that I didn't want people to see it as plastic surgery.
Speaker 4: I needed them to know that this is like an
Speaker 4: affirming surgery that can change lives and possibly save lives.
Speaker 4: And it was so wild to look in the mirror
Speaker 4: and see what I imagined for the you know, for
Speaker 4: the first time, to kind of it was just a
Speaker 4: soften of my features. I didn't look totally different, but
Speaker 4: a very emotional experience. And I do think like there's
Speaker 4: power in sharing a story so that people can get
Speaker 4: like a little look.
Speaker 1: In absolutely, I mean, that's what you're doing is freeing
Speaker 1: other people when you share your story. You're giving license
Speaker 1: to other people to share their stories and to follow
Speaker 1: their dreams. How many surgeries have you had to have
Speaker 1: thus far?
Speaker 4: So it's it's funny, like there's really no rulebook to
Speaker 4: how transitions go. And again it's like you can, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of pick and choose what it is based on
Speaker 4: your euphoria and dysphoria. So you know that was because
Speaker 4: I'm so in the public eye right now. I knew
Speaker 4: that that was one of the first things that I
Speaker 4: wanted to do, since I am so on display and
Speaker 4: I was feeling so self conscious and very upset about
Speaker 4: my features. But now I'm actually I think I'm going
Speaker 4: to take a little bit of a step back about
Speaker 4: talking about my physical transition, because, first of all, that
Speaker 4: word influencer scares the shit out of me, because I
Speaker 4: don't want to influence anyone to do anything. But I
Speaker 4: don't want other trans people, especially young trans people, to
Speaker 4: feel like they have to do something in a order
Speaker 4: to be trans. And so while I do have other
Speaker 4: plans and other surgeries that I like, I haven't decided
Speaker 4: how I'm going to necessarily share those because I don't
Speaker 4: want to set any sort.
Speaker 1: Of precedents that's nice and I'm responsible, I'm sure. I
Speaker 1: want to know how it made you feel to get
Speaker 1: all this love online. And I mean, you're a viral,
Speaker 1: you know, superstar on Instagram and TikTok. If you don't
Speaker 1: follow her already, it's at Dylan mulvaney.
Speaker 4: And hey, you're killing it on TikTok right now too.
Speaker 4: I'm digging the PSAs great.
Speaker 1: I got another one coming up that involves you, so
Speaker 1: so so tell us about what that welcoming and affirmation
Speaker 1: must feel like, because after going through something and experiencing
Speaker 1: something for so long and taking the balls by you know,
Speaker 1: the bull by its horns and saying, fuck it, this
Speaker 1: is my life. I'm going to do what I'm going
Speaker 1: to do, yeah, you know, and having people applaud.
Speaker 4: That, well, I still don't really get social media, to
Speaker 4: be honest. It's it's so crazy how fast things can
Speaker 4: can travel there. And I think normally, like I was
Speaker 4: a musical theater kid, I just wanted to I still
Speaker 4: want to be an actress. And normally you like book
Speaker 4: a movie and you have like two years befo for
Speaker 4: it comes out, so you kind of have some preparation
Speaker 4: of like, okay, this might happen, you know, But I mean,
Speaker 4: I think I had a million followers in like seventeen days,
Speaker 4: and no one can really like, get you ready for that?
Speaker 4: And I think also I was essentially sharing the most
Speaker 4: vulnerable parts of my life. So there's kind of a
Speaker 4: double whammy of putting yourself out there and having your
Speaker 4: transits on display. And if there was if another transperson
Speaker 4: came to me right now and said, oh, should I
Speaker 4: start from day one and showcase, I'd say, oh, babe,
Speaker 4: I don't know about that, just because of all of
Speaker 4: the turmoil that's come from it. But I will say
Speaker 4: the amount of love and the fact that on day
Speaker 4: one I said this is who I am and I
Speaker 4: hadn't had, you know, any surgery. I was still very
Speaker 4: much finding my femininity and figuring out what really makes
Speaker 4: me a woman versus the misogyny that I still am
Speaker 4: working through that was placed on me. But I was
Speaker 4: supported by women saying we stand by you, we see
Speaker 4: you as a woman, We're here for you on this journey.
Speaker 4: And now I have people in the comments being like,
Speaker 4: we been here since day one, day seven, day nine,
Speaker 4: and that gives me hope, and I hope that it
Speaker 4: shows other trans people that are still in the closet
Speaker 4: that they can when they're ready and on their own time,
Speaker 4: that they can feel allowed to come out and to
Speaker 4: experience life in the beautiful way.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most offensive things to hear
Speaker 1: is people who are talking about, you know, trans people, saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it's trendy, it's trendy. Are we supposed to let children
Speaker 1: change their sex before they're ready because what if they
Speaker 1: change their mind back? And it's such a miseducation and
Speaker 1: an unknowing. Like I had a friend say to me, oh,
Speaker 1: I know there are eight year old kids that are
Speaker 1: getting transgender surgery without their parents, and I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: simply not true. First of all, there is no eight
Speaker 1: year old.
Speaker 3: That can go to the fucking doctor and become drive
Speaker 3: themselves there.
Speaker 1: It's just so dumb.
Speaker 4: So it's it's insane that that notion of like trendiness,
Speaker 4: because transness has existed like since the beginning of time,
Speaker 4: and truly, like in certain cultures, the two spirits or
Speaker 4: transness was actually like seen as almost the most holy
Speaker 4: or the most reverent or the most respected. And it's
Speaker 4: so sad to watch, as you know, the years go by,
Speaker 4: it get sort of picked apart due to capitalism and
Speaker 4: and all of these things that have essentially let go
Speaker 4: of the fact that this is who we are.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 1: And then also just in a scientific aspect, From a
Speaker 1: scientific perspective, there is a spectrum of mail. What male
Speaker 1: like Arnold Schwarzenegger is at one end of the spectrum, okay,
Speaker 1: and then Pamela Anderson is at the other end of
Speaker 1: the spectrum. That's a boy, that's a girl, and then
Speaker 1: there's fifty million things in between.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it's biological as well. It's not just an idea.
Speaker 1: This has been going on since people were born. Like
Speaker 1: there's this is not new, This is not trendy. We
Speaker 1: just happened to have a vocabulary about it in another
Speaker 1: modern era.
Speaker 4: It makes me very sad too when they go, oh,
Speaker 4: she's doing this to be to get famous or you
Speaker 4: know what. When I came out, I was assumed that
Speaker 4: I would not work for a very long time. I
Speaker 4: you know, it's not like trans people are out here,
Speaker 4: you know, thriving. We're just trying to survive. And I
Speaker 4: am My experience online that you know, in my success
Speaker 4: is like one one millionth of what it actually is
Speaker 4: to be trans. The transphobia I experience is so different
Speaker 4: than that of a black trans woman who you know,
Speaker 4: these are as much as I am going through it,
Speaker 4: and I have you know, a lot of people that
Speaker 4: maybe don't care for me. There's still so much privilege
Speaker 4: and in what in my experience compared to other trans peoples.
Speaker 4: And I need to make sure that we're taking care
Speaker 4: of the whole community and that this isn't you know,
Speaker 4: some this There's nothing about this that's a gimmick. This
Speaker 4: is my truth. It's such an odd remark to make
Speaker 4: that they think that I would do this for any reason,
Speaker 4: but because of it's such a difficult decision. Yeah, well,
Speaker 4: and there is.
Speaker 3: I think there is something scary to people who are
Speaker 3: scared of of transness or you know, the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 3: There's something scary about someone like you who chooses, despite
Speaker 3: that adversity, to show up, bubbling over with joy and
Speaker 3: to bring positivity and even though it is difficult, to
Speaker 3: still show off your joy.
Speaker 4: Well, and that's the thing I and I'll say also,
Speaker 4: and I think you'll get me on this comedy for
Speaker 4: me is my way in. And so a lot of
Speaker 4: the times. I will make light of sometimes these really
Speaker 4: dark situations because it's my coping mechanism. It always has been.
Speaker 4: I like making people laugh, I like making people smile.
Speaker 4: I was doing a lot of stand up about a
Speaker 4: year ago, and I realized it was it was very
Speaker 4: healing for me to just I love to overshare. I
Speaker 4: think you can relate, but I tried to find the
Speaker 4: funny and transness, and it's really it's a slippery slope
Speaker 4: because then things get taken out of context or it
Speaker 4: gets used against you, and I think I now am
Speaker 4: trying to take a step back. And another thing that
Speaker 4: happens too in your trans is you immediately get labeled
Speaker 4: as like an activist and that you know how to
Speaker 4: speak on all of these things and that you have
Speaker 4: the answers. But I'm a baby trans. You know, I'm
Speaker 4: still so new to my journey that I've made a
Speaker 4: lot of missteps. I've spoken out of turn. And the
Speaker 4: most important thing is that you know, hopefully not all
Speaker 4: trans people have to be these like activists have to
Speaker 4: have every single answer. You know, I have so much
Speaker 4: left to learn.
Speaker 1: That's a good point that you bring up. As an activist. Also,
Speaker 1: you're speaking up for things that you care about. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you know the answer to every in
Speaker 1: and out of the subject or the topic. Obviously, we
Speaker 1: are interested in educating ourselves on whatever whatever topic we're
Speaker 1: being an ally to or an ally.
Speaker 4: For or well that's you know. I'm a musical theater major,
Speaker 4: so I mean that's my way in. I'm like, God,
Speaker 4: can I sing about it?
Speaker 7: Can?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 4: And that's what I did on day three sixty five.
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, let me show people what I
Speaker 4: actually want to do, which was perform, and I used
Speaker 4: my story to kind of put it into a show.
Speaker 4: And now going forward, I think that if I was
Speaker 4: to create a show with the trans character, or to
Speaker 4: write a touring show, those are different forms of activism
Speaker 4: in itself. And I actually think that through scripted and
Speaker 4: through comedy that we can learn from absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how we learn about everything in this world.
Speaker 4: Right, It's almost easier way. It's not a real human
Speaker 4: that it's like, oh, there's a little bit of mystery there.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I wonder if for folks who aren't really clear about
Speaker 3: euphoria and dysphoria, can you talk to us a little
Speaker 3: bit about that Okay.
Speaker 4: So I remember, like early on in my transition, like
Speaker 4: those first moments of actually purchasing an item of clothing
Speaker 4: that I've always you know, craved wearing, or even just
Speaker 4: like a man opening the door and calling me ma'am.
Speaker 4: I know that that's so gender stereotype, but it was like, oh,
Speaker 4: oh my god, like it and funny enough during the pandemic,
Speaker 4: wearing those masks, it was kind of nice because I
Speaker 4: still have a little I'm trying to get rid of
Speaker 4: this beard hair, and she's really putting up a fight.
Speaker 1: But hey, by the way, I'm trying to deal with
Speaker 1: my beard hair too, you know that's what I heard.
Speaker 1: I have those blonde will I have different dear hair,
Speaker 1: but the blonde fuzzies. I shave my face all the time.
Speaker 1: They come.
Speaker 4: We'll do it together. And I just think there are euphoria, truly,
Speaker 4: are those little moments that sometimes it isn't this like
Speaker 4: outward like oh my god, it's that, but it's like
Speaker 4: that little spark in you that's like, oh yes, And
Speaker 4: then dysphoria is truly it feels like a darkness that
Speaker 4: kind of washes over you, and it is those moments
Speaker 4: of being misgendered or I remember before transitioning having to
Speaker 4: put on a male outfit for an audition, or you know,
Speaker 4: just like that, conforming that made me so sad. And
Speaker 4: that's what I think a lot of these haters don't realize,
Speaker 4: is that the mental effects of misgendering in the media.
Speaker 4: It breaks my heart because you know, there are people
Speaker 4: calling me a man, and I don't Right now, I
Speaker 4: feel like I'm not even processing any of it because
Speaker 4: I'm so scared to do that deep dive and to
Speaker 4: know what the effects are. And I'll say, these haters,
Speaker 4: they really wore me down for a second. But then
Speaker 4: they came for you, Chelse, and I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 4: this is my favorite woman in the entire world, and
Speaker 4: the same people that are coming for me are coming
Speaker 4: for her. And it actually something clicked, and I went,
Speaker 4: oh my god, maybe what they're saying isn't true because
Speaker 4: I'm now watching them take out someone I love and
Speaker 4: I know her truth and I stand by her and
Speaker 4: I love her. So maybe the same goes for me,
Speaker 4: because it's almost easier when it's not about you and
Speaker 4: it's about someone you love or enjoy. And I know
Speaker 4: we hadn't met yet. But I actually was able to
Speaker 4: see in through your experience with them.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I love that. Yeah, I mean I was
Speaker 1: saying this to you a little bit before we started.
Speaker 1: But you know, the haters is kind of like, it's
Speaker 1: just like you have a big pile of stuff. There's
Speaker 1: always going to be there's going to be some negative stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to learn how to focus on
Speaker 1: the positive and all the people that you're impacting, and
Speaker 1: eventually it just rolls right off your.
Speaker 4: Back and we both know how to have a good
Speaker 4: time exactly. And that's what you know. I don't think
Speaker 4: they want to see that.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I mean for Republican men to
Speaker 1: tell me that I'm unhappy, I'm like, who said I
Speaker 1: was happy? You guys are assuming I'm happy because of
Speaker 1: the way I'm living. Yeah, I'm not going I'm happy.
Speaker 7: I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I don't have to say that because I fucking am happy.
Speaker 1: I don't have to scream it from the rooftops payment
Speaker 1: every time I do. Now, now something, they've given me
Speaker 1: more motivation just to fuck with them, because they can't
Speaker 1: handle a woman who knows a that can take care
Speaker 1: of it. A lot of people around her that doesn't
Speaker 1: need a man to do that, and doesn't need a
Speaker 1: child to do that. You're not gonna keep me down ever,
Speaker 1: And I think that's how anyone who's ever receiving that
Speaker 1: has to look at it. It's like, look at the source,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, look at the ignorance, and
Speaker 1: look at the idea for me personally, the idea that
Speaker 1: a man knows what's best for me is.
Speaker 3: Preposterous, especially a man that doesn't actually know.
Speaker 1: You know, but no one who knows me knows what's
Speaker 1: best for me except for me, my sister, maybe Simona
Speaker 1: and Shashana. But I don't even know. I know what's
Speaker 1: best for me, you know what I mean, just like
Speaker 1: you know what's best for you, and like every individual
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast knows what's best for you. There's
Speaker 1: an inner knowing that we all have. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you were born a boy or born a girl.
Speaker 1: You have an intuition that comes with your person and
Speaker 1: that's what you have to listen to. And on that note,
Speaker 1: we should take some callers. Yeah, we're gonna take a
Speaker 1: break so I can calm the fuck down. Okay, and
Speaker 1: we're back.
Speaker 4: We're back with.
Speaker 1: Still in the Jolly.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: Our first question is just an email, Kayla says to
Speaker 3: your Chelsea, rejection has always been my biggest fear. As
Speaker 3: a kid, I had almost no friends. I was teased
Speaker 3: from my looks, my old soul personality was misunderstood. Now
Speaker 3: I'm in my mid thirties and I have more friends
Speaker 3: than I can handle. Don't get me wrong, I feel
Speaker 3: grateful to have so many girlfriends that I can count
Speaker 3: on and grow with, but I feel pretty overwhelmed with
Speaker 3: maintaining all of these relationships in a meaningful way. Nowadays,
Speaker 3: I seem to mostly get asked to go to all
Speaker 3: the big events such as weddings, birthdays, and baby showers,
Speaker 3: and I'm often told you're the busiest person I know,
Speaker 3: so I'm less likely to get asked to just have coffee.
Speaker 3: It's true, though, my schedule feels so full, and I'm
Speaker 3: drained by balancing all these relationships Besides friends. My husband
Speaker 3: has a large family and mine is quite sizable too.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of personal relationships to maintain.
Speaker 1: Chelsea.
Speaker 3: You seem like the kind of person who has a
Speaker 3: ton of friends. How do you keep up with everyone?
Speaker 3: I never feel like I'm being a good enough friend.
Speaker 3: Should I try to not be so hard on myself
Speaker 3: or work on more practical ways to keep in touch
Speaker 3: with them all? Thanks so much, Kayla.
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's a good problem to have, Tayla, I
Speaker 1: would say, I'll go first, and then Dylan, you can
Speaker 1: chime in anytime you want, Okay, I would say that, yes,
Speaker 1: that is a good problem to have. I would say,
Speaker 1: to be respectful to all of the people that are
Speaker 1: in your life. And the way I show respect personally
Speaker 1: is I respond to every text and email that I get.
Speaker 1: I always respond. It might take a minute, but especially
Speaker 1: text I find that that is a more personal kind
Speaker 1: of way. So if I've forgotten an email or two
Speaker 1: that you know, that's probably true. But texting wise, I
Speaker 1: try to get back to every single person who leaves
Speaker 1: me a tech message, And even if it's the news
Speaker 1: isn't good, like I can't make it. It's nice to
Speaker 1: just show that kind of They used to say deference
Speaker 1: in school when I wouldn't respect my teachers. They said
Speaker 1: you had to show deference and I was like, fuck off.
Speaker 1: But deference is just showing somebody respect and saying, like
Speaker 1: you know, creating boundaries creates respect. That is true. When
Speaker 1: you say no to things because you need time alone,
Speaker 1: or you you know, you have other plans or whatever,
Speaker 1: that's all fine. You don't have to over extend yourself.
Speaker 1: That's not doing anybody any favors, because you grow resentful
Speaker 1: of the person that you're overextending yourself for, and you
Speaker 1: grow resentful of not spending enough time on yourself. So
Speaker 1: I would just say to anybody like, I mean, it
Speaker 1: seems like it seems like it's more of a personal
Speaker 1: problem from your writing, like you feel that you need
Speaker 1: to spend all this time with all these people, I
Speaker 1: would say, dial that back a little bit, give yourself
Speaker 1: some room to breathe and reassess yourself, give yourself six
Speaker 1: weeks and say, Okay, I'm going to do this for
Speaker 1: six weeks and see how I feel at the end
Speaker 1: of the six weeks. I'm going to respond to anyone
Speaker 1: who asks me, but I'm not going to make plans
Speaker 1: with every single person who asks me. I'm gonna say, actually,
Speaker 1: I have a really busy week, or if you're not.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was kind of a mixed message because
Speaker 1: she's saying she's getting invited to big things rather than
Speaker 1: the little things if those little interactions are important for you,
Speaker 1: and studies show that it is very important to socialize.
Speaker 1: It isn't very important to be around other people, but
Speaker 1: it's also very important to regroup. Like I need an
Speaker 1: anordinate amount of time to be by myself in order
Speaker 1: for me to perform on stage on a regular basis
Speaker 1: during a tour, I need to be alone for many
Speaker 1: hours a day. I have to conserve my fucking energy
Speaker 1: because I don't have the energy and the stamina that
Speaker 1: I had when I was in my twenties. And you
Speaker 1: know whatever, So I.
Speaker 4: Because you're so present with people, and that's what I'll say.
Speaker 4: I nearly died when you said I respond to every
Speaker 4: text message because my phone is like it's we're in
Speaker 4: the hundreds, babe, And I was feeling so guilty. I'm
Speaker 4: the number one people pleaser. But then I realized My
Speaker 4: goal is that when I actually am with someone in
Speaker 4: person or if I I'm on a phone call, I'm
Speaker 4: going to be one hundred percent present and I'm not.
Speaker 4: I don't want to do the half assed sort of like,
Speaker 4: oh I'm going to hang out a bunch of people,
Speaker 4: but I'm going to be you know, in a bunch
Speaker 4: of different places in my head or working or no.
Speaker 4: I want to show up. And when I do get
Speaker 4: those moments, which maybe are more rare now with friends
Speaker 4: or loved ones, I want to be there fully. And
Speaker 4: I've actually now set the precedent that, do you know
Speaker 4: Glennon Doyle, Yeah, she talked about she doesn't really text anymore.
Speaker 4: She thinks that it's you're basically always at the beck
Speaker 4: and call of someone else. And so now all my
Speaker 4: friends know to call me and we'll have these great,
Speaker 4: you know, phone calls and chats and and that has
Speaker 4: like filled me up in a new way.
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's great that you say that,
Speaker 1: because I'm the opposite. I would prefer a text rather
Speaker 1: than a phone call. Don't fucking call me. But and
Speaker 1: but I think what you said is very precient, because
Speaker 1: it's it's very important. That's what I said to my
Speaker 1: girlfriend once she got mad at me for canceling, and
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I can't. I'm canceling because I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be able to be present. I'm exhausted, I'm tired,
Speaker 1: I feel like shit. I want to be present, and
Speaker 1: that is the most important gift you can give somebody
Speaker 1: is your time.
Speaker 4: And presence and how funny to the people that I
Speaker 4: want to hang out with the most are usually the
Speaker 4: ones that are like, oh, I'm not gonna message her
Speaker 4: because she's busy. But then it's the people that you know,
Speaker 4: they're they're hounding you to hang out and you're like, wait, no,
Speaker 4: I want to go see these other people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: So I think it's also really reaching out to the
Speaker 4: people that you want to be around, that you want
Speaker 4: to go on that coffee date with, and then saying
Speaker 4: no when it when it feels right, and.
Speaker 1: Also measuring how you feel after your interactions with people,
Speaker 1: like actually taking in are you getting a lot out
Speaker 1: of this relationship or are you being present for someone
Speaker 1: going through a difficult time? Those are two ends of
Speaker 1: the spectrum. But they also like I like to be there.
Speaker 1: I like emotional triage. When somebody needs something and a
Speaker 1: friend needs something, then I like to be there for them.
Speaker 1: I excel at that, but I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: doing that for two years in a row, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I want to help you get out
Speaker 1: of it. And then there's other friends who don't necessarily
Speaker 1: need you, who are bringing something and filling your cup.
Speaker 6: Ups.
Speaker 1: So it's good to measure the time that you're spending
Speaker 1: with people, because if you're exhausting yourself on three people
Speaker 1: that are fair weather friends and then you're then you've
Speaker 1: lost all your energy for the real friend. Like, you
Speaker 1: have to kind of measure who brings what into your
Speaker 1: life and what is the value and how much of
Speaker 1: a priority each friend is.
Speaker 3: Communicating with someone how you like to be communicated with,
Speaker 3: which you've both said I think is awesome. So for example,
Speaker 3: maybe it's sorry I can't come to your birthday party,
Speaker 3: but let's grab coffee and set a date, you know,
Speaker 3: so that you get that one on one time with
Speaker 3: someone who does fill your cup.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's nice because you like to text it. I
Speaker 4: like to call, so I just.
Speaker 1: So we'll meet each other in the middle. Do you
Speaker 1: call or do you FaceTime?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 4: I like to call because I like, what if I'm
Speaker 4: peeing or you know, I don't. That's a lot. Face
Speaker 4: timing is.
Speaker 1: A lot, right, well, facetiming is a lot. I consider
Speaker 1: that to be an assault, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: you can't just fucking FaceTime me. But most of my
Speaker 1: people know that nobody does that. Yeah. Talking on the phone,
Speaker 1: I have to say, is sexier than face time is Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: Like it's staring at somebody for two hours.
Speaker 4: It's just not gone earth. There's like a you know,
Speaker 4: a man that you're texting and all of a sudden
Speaker 4: it goes and you're like, oh shit, you know, and
Speaker 4: you're like putting on some eline, are really fast, throw
Speaker 4: your phone in the Oh my god. Well Kayla, let
Speaker 4: us know how it goes.
Speaker 1: Kelly, hopefully we gave you some advice.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, our first caller today is Dane and this
Speaker 3: one is a bit of a gut punch, so fair warning, okay.
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea. I'm writing in today because I'm a trans
Speaker 3: guy and my mom has been ashamed of me ever
Speaker 3: since I came out as trans to her almost a
Speaker 3: decade ago. She didn't understand then and still doesn't. We
Speaker 3: didn't speak for almost nine months because she didn't respect
Speaker 3: my name change and my pronouns. When I would tell
Speaker 3: her it hurt my feelings that she didn't even try
Speaker 3: to use my preferred name or pronouns. She'd lecture me
Speaker 3: for hours about how selfish I was, or I needed
Speaker 3: to grow up and understand that the real world would
Speaker 3: never be as understanding as she was. She's a proud
Speaker 3: conservative and conspiracy theorist and takes every opportunity to spread
Speaker 3: her ignorance. I'm at my wits end. She's currently engaged
Speaker 3: to a guy who's even more transphobic than she is.
Speaker 3: He supposedly loves me, but here's the thing, he doesn't
Speaker 3: know I'm trans. If he knew, I think he'd lose it.
Speaker 3: He saw a picture of me pre transition early in
Speaker 3: their relationship and asked her about it. Instead of the truth,
Speaker 3: she told him that she had a daughter who was
Speaker 3: killed in a drug driving accident. When I had top
Speaker 3: surgery several years ago, she made up excuses and lied
Speaker 3: to him about why she was coming over to check
Speaker 3: on me. She's my only remaining family. I've always taken
Speaker 3: care of her since I was a young child. I
Speaker 3: was the parent for both of us. She sees me
Speaker 3: as her son now, but still posts transphobic things online constantly.
Speaker 3: She isn't supportive of my long term transition goals, and
Speaker 3: if I so much as cough, she blames it on
Speaker 3: my hormone therapy. As I get older and work through
Speaker 3: all my trauma and therapy. I'm starting to wonder how
Speaker 3: much I should keep trying with her. I don't want
Speaker 3: to lose my only family, but I also feel so
Speaker 3: jaded from everything she's put me through.
Speaker 4: What should I do?
Speaker 1: Dane? Hi, Dane, Dane, Oh my god, this is Dylan mulvaney.
Speaker 1: She's our guest today, so you have another set of years.
Speaker 7: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 4: First of all, I just want to I wish I
Speaker 4: could give you like the biggest hug ever. I'm trans
Speaker 4: as well, and I know that our journeys are very different,
Speaker 4: but I can relate on multiple levels. You know, I
Speaker 4: come from a very conservative family as well, and I
Speaker 4: know how frustrating this might be, but I do believe
Speaker 4: people are capable of change, and sometimes it can take
Speaker 4: a long time. But I also what I worry about
Speaker 4: with your mom is it sounds like she loves you
Speaker 4: with almost like an asterix of like what that means?
Speaker 4: You know, there's all of these layers of getting to
Speaker 4: that love that you know should just be so pure
Speaker 4: between a parent and a child, with no what's the
Speaker 4: word unconditional?
Speaker 1: It should love between a mother and a child, or
Speaker 1: between hopefully any two people. But fortunately that's not the
Speaker 1: world we live in, but continue.
Speaker 4: And I'm just hoping that outside of this one person
Speaker 4: that is technically your biological family, I just want you
Speaker 4: to have the most amazing, chosen family around you, and
Speaker 4: I want you to be surrounded with other trans people
Speaker 4: that love you and making sure that when those transphobic
Speaker 4: comments do come from someone like your mom, that they
Speaker 4: can be there to step up and say that's not true.
Speaker 4: We know you and this is what we see. And
Speaker 4: I just I don't want you to lose your favorite
Speaker 4: parts of yourself because of that bond that you're trying
Speaker 4: so hard to keep together.
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts, Chelse, Yeah, I would say
Speaker 1: that your mom is really toxic for you at this
Speaker 1: stage in your life. I also believe people change, but
Speaker 1: her behavior posting anti transshit online when she knows that
Speaker 1: she has a son whose trans is just that's like
Speaker 1: hanging out with your own bully, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any benefit or change that's
Speaker 1: going to happen from continuing this relationship, especially after the
Speaker 1: circumstances you mentioned in this letter, your stepfather who she
Speaker 1: lied to about her son. I mean, what is that
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Yeah, I mean that's very psychotic behavior, and
Speaker 1: you can't pretend somebody died, like that's psychotic. So I think,
Speaker 1: based on her behavior alone, like, I think you kind
Speaker 1: of owe it to yourself to create a lot of
Speaker 1: distance and enjoy the people that you have in your
Speaker 1: life that really love you. I know, this is your mother,
Speaker 1: and then that's very difficult. I've never had to like
Speaker 1: disassociate from my parents, but I would say that it's
Speaker 1: not in your best interest to have her in your life.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, we've had periods in our relationship where
Speaker 8: we have gone months at a time without speaking, and
Speaker 8: because of all of the trauma that we've been through
Speaker 8: individual and together, we always kind of end up coming
Speaker 8: back together.
Speaker 7: And itself is really hard.
Speaker 1: You know that what kind of trauma are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Are you talking about your transition? Are you talking about
Speaker 1: other trauma?
Speaker 7: Other trauma?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 8: Like what really bad stuff you know that she's done,
Speaker 8: and that was done to both of us throughout my
Speaker 8: childhood and her childhood.
Speaker 7: I see, you know, it's brutal trauma.
Speaker 8: Bonding is a real thing, and especially when we're all
Speaker 8: each other has it makes it extra hard. You know,
Speaker 8: to kind of sever those ties, and it makes it
Speaker 8: hard to when when there is that distance in that separation,
Speaker 8: and then promises are made like oh, you know, we'll try,
Speaker 8: or we won't you know, we won't talk about these things,
Speaker 8: or we won't do this, and then those promises fade
Speaker 8: away and old habits come out, and then it's just like, oh,
Speaker 8: you haven't really changed.
Speaker 7: You know, you're still the same toxic person and you
Speaker 7: just kind of wanted to Trojan Horseship way back in.
Speaker 7: So it's hard.
Speaker 8: And I do believe people can change, you know, I'm
Speaker 8: evidence of that. You know, I've changed a lot, and
Speaker 8: I've grown and healed in a lot of really positive ways.
Speaker 4: You're amazing, thank you.
Speaker 8: But it's hard to want the same thing for her,
Speaker 8: you know, to want her to heal and for her
Speaker 8: to grow in positive ways, but to not be able
Speaker 8: to force that and just to kind of have to
Speaker 8: bear the burden of that trauma and that.
Speaker 7: Way and not walk together in the light, you know
Speaker 7: what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you said that you ended up taking care of her,
Speaker 4: and I want you to know that that was not
Speaker 4: your job and that a child should be a child
Speaker 4: and a parent should be the parent and that those
Speaker 4: roles that were placed on you are not normal. That
Speaker 4: wasn't healthy, and they've continued throughout your life even though
Speaker 4: you're now also an adult. And I believe that your
Speaker 4: transnis was probably one of the first times that you
Speaker 4: went against taking care of her because that was that
Speaker 4: was you taking care of yourself, and that scared the
Speaker 4: shit out of her in that transphobia. It could have
Speaker 4: been anything, but it was your transness that took precedent
Speaker 4: because that's who you are, that was always who you've been.
Speaker 4: And I think for her that that resentment towards your
Speaker 4: transness also comes from the fact that you were able
Speaker 4: to stand up to her and say, this is who
Speaker 4: I am. I'm playing by these rules, and that's kind
Speaker 4: of one of the only times that you've You've done
Speaker 4: that because it was so important to you. But you
Speaker 4: need to be able to do that in every area
Speaker 4: of your life and not just your gender identity, because
Speaker 4: that is when she will actually see you as an
Speaker 4: equal and as an adult and someone that you know.
Speaker 4: It kind of sounds like maybe you should go cold
Speaker 4: turkey for a second and show her what it's like
Speaker 4: to experience her life without you, because you bring so
Speaker 4: much light to it that maybe she needs to be
Speaker 4: reminded just exactly how much light that is.
Speaker 3: If you do choose to keep a relationship with her
Speaker 3: at all, you got to unfollow the Facebook, you gotta
Speaker 3: unfollow all those socials, mute whatever you gotta do. But like,
Speaker 3: you don't need to see that, You don't need that
Speaker 3: popping up in your day. And give yourself boundaries as well,
Speaker 3: because I know you live in different places. When you
Speaker 3: do go to visit, don't stay.
Speaker 1: At her house.
Speaker 3: You need to stay nearby somewhere else, so that when
Speaker 3: you need to retreat and go into your own space,
Speaker 3: you have the opportunity.
Speaker 6: To do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and creating boundaries, you need to create boundaries.
Speaker 4: Also, the fact that she has not told her husband
Speaker 4: that you were trans that is like such a huge
Speaker 4: red flag of shame. Yeah, And there is nothing to
Speaker 4: be ashamed of of being you. And it breaks my
Speaker 4: heart that she is so scared to even share that
Speaker 4: with another very important person in her life. And so
Speaker 4: I think before that reunion can happen, I think that
Speaker 4: conversation needs to happen, and it might prolong that time apart,
Speaker 4: and it might get even messier. But I don't think
Speaker 4: you can go forward in this relationship with that secret
Speaker 4: and my god, like you're her child at the end
Speaker 4: of the day, that should take the cake.
Speaker 1: I have a question, have you had any separation from her? Like,
Speaker 1: have you guys ever taken a time out from your relationship?
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like we've had periods of up to like almost
Speaker 8: a year of not speaking, not seeing each other at all.
Speaker 1: M m. And then you kind of just revert back
Speaker 1: to where it started or back to your regular habits
Speaker 1: with each other.
Speaker 7: You know, over time.
Speaker 8: It doesn't just go immediately back to like over super
Speaker 8: you know, super close. Take some time to get back there,
Speaker 8: but yeah, eventually we end up back, you know, two
Speaker 8: peas in a pod kind of thing.
Speaker 7: We've never gotten.
Speaker 8: Like fully, you know, back to where we were, like
Speaker 8: when we were when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: But see, you just almost said when we were kids.
Speaker 1: That's how you think of her as a kid, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's how she is behaving probably and how you
Speaker 1: guys travel and bonded in the first place, because you
Speaker 1: were both in a situation where you felt like you
Speaker 1: were being treated like children or you were acting like
Speaker 1: children when you were a child and she wasn't. So
Speaker 1: trauma bonding is very very complicated. And you do you
Speaker 1: have a therapist that you see Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, Oh you think I'm surviving out of there?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Well, do you have other trans people in your life
Speaker 4: that are like lifting you up?
Speaker 7: Not closely?
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 8: I'm part of a few online groups that I reach
Speaker 8: out to occasionally for support for my transition goals, but
Speaker 8: I'm not like close with any trans people.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll be close to you.
Speaker 7: Breezed by all means. I would love that because it's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is hard. Where are you? Where do you live?
Speaker 7: I'm in the Portland area.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, we should get you connected with
Speaker 3: Shane from season one.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, in prison is not a joke, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll follow each other. Yeah, we have to connect you
Speaker 1: with Shane too. He transitions as well.
Speaker 3: And didn't tell his family for like eight years.
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, yeah, so that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's a very good goal for you.
Speaker 1: Also is to have a little bit more of a
Speaker 1: community for you, So you know, take Dylan up on
Speaker 1: her offering and you guys can connect online and also
Speaker 1: we'll connect you with Shane. But yeah, I think you
Speaker 1: need a time out from your mom, and I think
Speaker 1: before you reintroduce her back into your life, then you're
Speaker 1: going to have to really set some clear boundaries for
Speaker 1: your own mental health. You know, don't follow her, you
Speaker 1: don't need to be exposed to any of that what
Speaker 1: Catherine said. But also for her to be able to
Speaker 1: be in your life, she has to meet certain requirements
Speaker 1: and that's up to you what those have to be.
Speaker 1: But I would suggest that one of them should be
Speaker 1: truthful to the person that she's marrying about the truth
Speaker 1: of your situation, because any secret builds shame and it's unnecessary.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Actually, you know, I finished reading this book, Healing the
Speaker 8: Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw, and I really
Speaker 8: I loved it that I'm a huge like reading Kike lately,
Speaker 8: and I really enjoyed that book because it's all about
Speaker 8: toxic shame.
Speaker 7: And I sent it to my mom.
Speaker 8: I was like, you should really read this and she's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 8: I'll check it out. I don't know what she actually will,
Speaker 8: but if she does, maybe an old teacher a few
Speaker 8: helpful lessons.
Speaker 4: Hey, you gave her a resource and now it's a
Speaker 4: two way street, and she can meet you halfway. It's
Speaker 4: the least she can do.
Speaker 7: We'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how does it feel to you when
Speaker 1: we say to take a break from your mother? How
Speaker 1: does that make you feel?
Speaker 8: I mean, it's something that I've done before, and something
Speaker 8: that I'm fully aware is logical and reasonable and something
Speaker 8: that is good for me by all accounts.
Speaker 1: And will you let her know you're taking a break
Speaker 1: or you'll just phase out?
Speaker 7: It'll probably just phase out.
Speaker 8: I mean she already senses distance between us, you know,
Speaker 8: like she and that'll make her even try to cling
Speaker 8: harder because she she'll randomly guilt me about certain things
Speaker 8: when she senses that distance, like I know I haven't
Speaker 8: been the best mother, and you know, but you turned
Speaker 8: out so great despite me.
Speaker 4: That kind of thing and actions speak louder than words.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it would be benefit. I'm always
Speaker 1: into writing a letter, like, even if it's a goodbye letter,
Speaker 1: it's nice to write it. Whether you send it or
Speaker 1: not is up to you. And maybe this is something
Speaker 1: you can discuss further with your therapist. But you should
Speaker 1: write a letter about how it feels for your mother
Speaker 1: to deny who you are.
Speaker 8: Oh, I got you beat on that. I don't mean
Speaker 8: to interrupt you, but I like an hour long video.
Speaker 7: This is the last time we didn't speak for like
Speaker 7: six months.
Speaker 8: I really heard like a, yeah, an hour long video,
Speaker 8: like this is all the abuse that you put me through.
Speaker 7: I'm tired of you, like hating on me and.
Speaker 8: Other trans people and you know, minorities and like all
Speaker 8: this shit that you post online.
Speaker 7: I'm sick of it. It was literally like an hour
Speaker 7: long video.
Speaker 8: And her response to me was just I'm so tired
Speaker 8: of you, you know, hating on me just because of
Speaker 8: my political views. I've walked on eggshells around you for
Speaker 8: the last five years. You know, I think we just
Speaker 8: need a break from each other.
Speaker 7: It is basically what.
Speaker 1: She said, political views. Yeah, it's like it's called human rights.
Speaker 8: Totally disregarded everything I said about, you know, the abuse
Speaker 8: and the way she treats me and me being trans.
Speaker 8: If you just disregard all that, I was just like, sorry,
Speaker 8: my politics, and then you let's take a break.
Speaker 1: From Yeah, Well, maybe it's not so accusatory, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's not such an indictment of her, and maybe you
Speaker 1: can make it short and sweet and put it in writing,
Speaker 1: so it's not even you speaking, so she can't be misinterpreted,
Speaker 1: just saying how much I love you. You're my mother.
Speaker 1: You know you give birth to me. We've been through
Speaker 1: a lot together and now I have to get healthy
Speaker 1: and I can't do that when my true personhood is
Speaker 1: being denied by the person who gave birth to me.
Speaker 1: And make it so simple and not make it about
Speaker 1: you did this, you did this, you did this. It's
Speaker 1: about how you feel and why you have to move on.
Speaker 1: And of course she may not accept that or think
Speaker 1: it's garbage or dismiss it, but it's a nice way
Speaker 1: of ending or putting like a pin in something without
Speaker 1: having anything left unseid or unspoken. It's not mandatory, but
Speaker 1: if you feel like doing something like that and writing
Speaker 1: something short and sweet that isn't nasty or harmful, but
Speaker 1: it's about you and your growth. It might be something
Speaker 1: that sits better with her because she's obviously on the
Speaker 1: defense all the time.
Speaker 4: Maybe could be like what you would love to have
Speaker 4: in a mom and in not how she's not those things.
Speaker 4: But like I think now, it's you aren't a child anymore,
Speaker 4: and so you get to redefine this relationship of what
Speaker 4: does a parent mean to you now? And these are
Speaker 4: the things that you know, is it. I need a cheerleader.
Speaker 4: I need someone who's we call each other every week
Speaker 4: just to check in or you know, getting very specific
Speaker 4: about like what that relationship that you want to look like,
Speaker 4: and that could be far away, but I just I
Speaker 4: really feel for you. I personally have actually been through
Speaker 4: something a little similar as of recently. I want to
Speaker 4: tell you that it's it's going to be okay. And
Speaker 4: I'm just I want you to have all the trans
Speaker 4: people in your life, I think trans masculine people also
Speaker 4: to make sure that you feel so supported, that you
Speaker 4: know your magic and that you are so loved.
Speaker 7: Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are loved, so like know that you what
Speaker 1: you did is really really brave, Like you're a brave
Speaker 1: person and you don't have to subject yourself to people
Speaker 1: that make you feel less. Then it's just not your responsibility.
Speaker 1: You're not responsible for your mother, You're not responsible for
Speaker 1: anything but your own decency and like humanness, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And as long as you're following your
Speaker 1: gut and you're following your instinct, and you're being good
Speaker 1: to people around you and being loving and caring of others.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And the road that you got here, like it sounds
Speaker 1: like you've been through a lot of trauma. You don't
Speaker 1: deserve any more trauma.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I definitely don't want anymore. You tell you that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Dane, thank you so much for sharing with us.
Speaker 3: I know this is really really tough stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're sending you a lot of love, honey, bunny. Yeah.
Speaker 8: When I was writing into you, guys, I was just
Speaker 8: thinking of the Martha Stewart episode where she's like, Chelsea,
Speaker 8: you get some really heavy shit on here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Meanwhile, Martha was not fucking ready for them. I
Speaker 1: was all right, Martha, this might not be the right
Speaker 1: person to have. Got people calling st and she can't
Speaker 1: relate to anybody normally.
Speaker 7: She listens to this, She's like.
Speaker 1: Won't be listening to this. I promise you. She's baking.
Speaker 7: Yes, she's baked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's baked. Oh, poor Martha. Okay, well, Dane, keep
Speaker 1: in touch with us. Okay, if you need anything ever, again,
Speaker 1: let us know. Okay. The idea of all these people,
Speaker 1: these parents. I don't understand how parents can disown their
Speaker 1: own child. I, as a non parent, wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to disown a human being that came to me and
Speaker 1: said I'm different than what we thought, you know, like
Speaker 1: or whatever, like it doesn't even have to be related
Speaker 1: to me. So I don't understand this. Like, I guess
Speaker 1: I'm just in a bubble. I am in a bubble.
Speaker 4: Well, we have one last holler.
Speaker 3: And I thought this was a good question because it
Speaker 3: sort of has less to do with actually dating and
Speaker 3: more to do with how other people perceive as we
Speaker 3: move through the world. After talking to her, but Marie says,
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty one year old woman currently
Speaker 3: living in North Carolina. I realized in my late twenties
Speaker 3: that I was not attracted to men. After years of
Speaker 3: suppressing my attraction to women, I've been on several dates
Speaker 3: with women who I feel attracted to. The dates have
Speaker 3: gone well. When I ask that person out again, I'm
Speaker 3: always hit with, oh, well, I'm not looking to date
Speaker 3: anyone currently, or I just didn't feel anything romantic with you.
Speaker 3: If this happened once or twice, I'd be able to
Speaker 3: brush it off. However, this has happened after every single
Speaker 3: date I've had or every connection I make on dating apps.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the honesty from these women, and I appreciate
Speaker 3: their communication versus being ghosted, but I feel like maybe
Speaker 3: I'm undateable. Do you have any advice for me or
Speaker 3: other people currently struggling with the challenges of dating in
Speaker 3: the modern world?
Speaker 1: Marie, Hi, Marie, Hi, Marie, Hi, Chelsea, Hi, Hi, how
Speaker 1: are you.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well? How are you doing?
Speaker 1: We're good. This is Dylan Milvaney. She's our special guest today,
Speaker 1: So say hello to Dyla.
Speaker 4: Hi, Dylan, nice to meet Marie.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: So, just to rewind, just to recap, you said, as
Speaker 1: as you started becoming interested in women, it's been more
Speaker 1: difficult to date.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I was definitely struggling with figuring out who I
Speaker 6: was attracted to because I was dating men at the
Speaker 6: time and I just absolutely was not attracted to them.
Speaker 2: Going out on these dates.
Speaker 6: So I started talking to a few friends and one
Speaker 6: of my friends had suggested, you know, maybe maybe you're actually,
Speaker 6: you know, attracted to women, you should try dating some women,
Speaker 6: just trying to, you know, figure out who you are.
Speaker 2: Of course, it.
Speaker 6: Was also COVID lockdowns, and then with the challenges of
Speaker 6: working a pretty busy job and then starting school, I
Speaker 6: just wasn't really focused on my dating life until probably
Speaker 6: around the end of twenty twenty two, and then, you know,
Speaker 6: starting twenty twenty three is when I really kind of
Speaker 6: started seriously getting back into the you know, the dating game.
Speaker 6: With the past couple of dates I've went on, I
Speaker 6: felt like the connection was really great through text messaging.
Speaker 6: I thought the dates were going really well, we had
Speaker 6: a lot of good chemistry. But afterwards, when I'd go
Speaker 6: to ask these women out again, I'd be told like, hey,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm not really feeling a connection here. You know, hey,
Speaker 6: I'm not really thinking about dating at this time, and
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if I'm doing something unintentionally or subconsciously
Speaker 6: where I'm putting off like a vibe of like, hey,
Speaker 6: maybe you know I'm not interested in this person or
Speaker 6: anything like that. I'm just not sure if I potentially
Speaker 6: could be doing something that would be causing that.
Speaker 1: How many dates were you did you go on.
Speaker 2: I've been on three so far.
Speaker 6: I've asked out probably a total of five people to
Speaker 6: the people I've asked out, you know, they told me like, hey,
Speaker 6: I'm not looking the date right now, or hey, I'm sorry,
Speaker 6: I just I just started in a relationship with somebody else.
Speaker 6: And then the three actual physical dates I've been on,
Speaker 6: I've been ghosted by one person and you know, the
Speaker 6: other person is like, hey, you know, not really feeling
Speaker 6: a here. And then the last one was really the
Speaker 6: kind of the one that hurt the most because I
Speaker 6: did feel probably the most chemistry with this individual. The
Speaker 6: date went really well, and I'm not much of a hugger,
Speaker 6: but she went to hug me at the end of
Speaker 6: the night, and I, you know, I hugged her back,
Speaker 6: and I was really hoping that maybe, you know, she'd
Speaker 6: want to go out with me again.
Speaker 2: But I went to ask like a week later.
Speaker 6: And she told me like, hey, you no, sorry, I'm
Speaker 6: I'm that interested in like dating at this time.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you feel like something's happening on these dates?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a decent sense of
Speaker 1: self awareness? Is the question.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do feel like I have a decent sense
Speaker 6: of self awareness. I do feel that I'm a pretty
Speaker 6: confident individual, and I do try to be an active
Speaker 6: listener when I am going out with these people, so
Speaker 6: you know, if they tell me something, asking a follow
Speaker 6: up question, you know, related to the conversation we've been having.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if there's something subconsciously I could be
Speaker 6: doing that would be giving off that vibe. But I
Speaker 6: do feel like I'm pretty self aware when I am
Speaker 6: on these dates.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, what I would say is, first of all,
Speaker 1: you sh relax your attitude about the whole thing, Okay,
Speaker 1: because life is about rejection. You're gonna get rejected a
Speaker 1: ton of times. It's going to happen again, it's going
Speaker 1: to keep happening, you know what I mean. And then
Speaker 1: there're gonna be people in between that you're going to
Speaker 1: date and that you're going to have and it's going
Speaker 1: to be mutual. You need to look at this just
Speaker 1: kind of change your perspective. I think we'll change the
Speaker 1: outcome a lot. I think you should look at these
Speaker 1: things as more casual and be a little bit lighter.
Speaker 1: If you can figure a way out, a way to
Speaker 1: really relax yourself before you go on these dates so
Speaker 1: that you're not coming off too strong or you're not
Speaker 1: coming off too rigid. I know you said you're not
Speaker 1: a hugger, like that can kind of send out a
Speaker 1: certain energy when people don't like to be hugged. When
Speaker 1: someone goes in for a hug and that person's not
Speaker 1: a hugger, you can feel it, and that can kind
Speaker 1: of be a chasm. Do you meditate it all?
Speaker 2: I've started to get into the meditation.
Speaker 6: I had downloaded the call app yesterday and I've been
Speaker 6: starting to get into that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is that what you use?
Speaker 4: Well, I was just going to say it's the universe
Speaker 4: must have been tapping you on the shoulder, because that's
Speaker 4: a good app. And I wanted to know what city
Speaker 4: do you live in? Cause I'm available.
Speaker 6: I'm kidding the closest big city that I'm located to
Speaker 6: would be able to Okay.
Speaker 4: I was just curious about what the lesbian scene is
Speaker 4: like out there because my with experience now being around
Speaker 4: some lesbians out here, they stick together. You know, we
Speaker 4: travel in packs. Well, I'm I go both ways right now,
Speaker 4: but I will say that maybe if you can insert
Speaker 4: yourself into just being friends with some gals who like
Speaker 4: goals in your area, that way, you know, people can
Speaker 4: get to know you, or these potential women can see you,
Speaker 4: they can experience you, get your personality, get at your quarks.
Speaker 4: They'll learn that you maybe aren't a hugger, but love
Speaker 4: that about you, and and then something could potentially happen
Speaker 4: more organically. Whereas right now, if you're meeting people online,
Speaker 4: there's this precedent like, oh, we're here not to be friends,
Speaker 4: we're here to potentially date, and that's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 4: Whereas I think in the queer community, so much of
Speaker 4: it happens in person. It happens at you know, a
Speaker 4: gay bar or a bonfire, you know, just that fun,
Speaker 4: lively queer connection. So I would almost take a detour
Speaker 4: from the dating and really focus on finding some amazing
Speaker 4: lesbian friends that can also help guide you to some
Speaker 4: other people hopefully nearby.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's really good advice. And making it
Speaker 3: a numbers game. So going on lots of first dates,
Speaker 3: think of first dates as just like throwaways a little bit,
Speaker 3: give it as.
Speaker 1: Practice, like just exactly, you don't you don't have to
Speaker 1: look at the date like, uh, okay, I hope this
Speaker 1: is the one. You can look at it as like
Speaker 1: what a great way to get to know how to
Speaker 1: do this better? And how to relax yourself so there's
Speaker 1: not so much pressure each time you go out. It's
Speaker 1: almost like if you overdate for a little bit, you
Speaker 1: get more comfortable with dating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I know you have a really
Speaker 3: intense job and she's in the army.
Speaker 1: As I could tell, I was gonna say, are you
Speaker 1: in the military.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So maybe you know, not going on a date
Speaker 3: right after work where you have to bring that intensity,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe taking some time to breathe, to decompress,
Speaker 3: listen to some like nice music, move your body a
Speaker 3: little bit before you go on a date, so you're
Speaker 3: just like feeling loose and free and like having a
Speaker 3: good time when you get Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would say, you come across as you have this
Speaker 1: kind of intense energy, which is a wonderful thing. But
Speaker 1: now it makes sense, like you do need to decompress,
Speaker 1: you do need to meditate, you do need to relax
Speaker 1: so that you can so you're not bringing your job
Speaker 1: to your dates with you, right. I'm sure your job
Speaker 1: is a huge part of your life, but until you
Speaker 1: get to know somebody, that's not their responsibility. So you know,
Speaker 1: you have to just I think your job from here
Speaker 1: from this phone call, your takeaway should be ways to
Speaker 1: really calm yourself so that you're walking into this with
Speaker 1: an energy of fun, not Okay, I'm going to conquer this,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm going to get
Speaker 1: my girlfriend. You should go in and as like experiential,
Speaker 1: like Okay, this is going to be wonderful. I'm going
Speaker 1: to learn about this person. And then I'm going to
Speaker 1: learn about this person. And it's not so methodical. It
Speaker 1: can be a more casual experience. And like what Dylan
Speaker 1: was saying, do you do you have a group of friends.
Speaker 1: Do you have a group of lesbians or any friends
Speaker 1: that are lesbians?
Speaker 2: Nobody really close by.
Speaker 6: But I did join like a meetup group where it
Speaker 6: was you know, a yeah, LGBP, let's go on hikes
Speaker 6: on the weekend, activities like that that I was thinking about,
Speaker 6: like meeting up with some of those people on a
Speaker 6: you know, week hike.
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with that. And you already made that initial step.
Speaker 4: And I'm someone I'll be honest with you, I haven't
Speaker 4: even been kissed as a girl yet, and I've never
Speaker 4: dated anyone seriously, and I just think that we are
Speaker 4: going to find someone amazing, and it probably might even
Speaker 4: happen in person, because if these apps don't, I don't
Speaker 4: feel like they're working for me. It sounds like maybe
Speaker 4: you're trouble having some trouble too. Let's get in one
Speaker 4: of those groups and let's meet some hot people.
Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just takes one. My best girlfriend was in
Speaker 3: a super similar position to you. She had dated guys.
Speaker 3: I wasn't working out. She decided to date women, and
Speaker 3: she was so intimidated every time she'd go on a
Speaker 3: date that like she would call it off right afterward.
Speaker 3: Then she finally met someone, she's like, this is going
Speaker 3: to be nothing. It's just a friend thing. She just
Speaker 3: came out too, We're going to hang out. They made
Speaker 3: out for four hours and they're still together a year later.
Speaker 3: So it just takes that one, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and treat everything a little bit more lightly, like
Speaker 1: you're just smiling, you're beautiful, you have a beautiful smile.
Speaker 1: Enjoy yourself. It doesn't have to be serious. It can
Speaker 1: be fun, and so just focus on the aspects of
Speaker 1: fun and relaxation and being present and it will be
Speaker 1: a lot easier for you. You know, you won't feel so
Speaker 1: rejected when something doesn't work out. There's no reason to
Speaker 1: feel that way. There's eight billion people in this world.
Speaker 1: You know you're not going to hit it off with
Speaker 1: everybody and have sexual chemistry with everybody. That's kind of
Speaker 1: a natural selection sort of thing. So just try and
Speaker 1: take it down a notch in terms of your expectations
Speaker 1: and being so kind of rigid or regimented about them.
Speaker 2: Sure. Sure, that's all great advice. I really appreciate it
Speaker 2: from everybody here.
Speaker 1: And start that calm. You're going to see a difference
Speaker 1: in your in the way you feel five or ten
Speaker 1: minutes a day, and you'll start to feel differently. I
Speaker 1: promise that.
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much, Marie posted good luck.
Speaker 1: We hope you get some poutang soon.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Ah ay oh that was so cute. Immediately when she
Speaker 1: started talking, I'm like, she the fucking army or what
Speaker 1: with that day? This and the hair and the thing.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, when you said that,
Speaker 1: I was going to say, do you work in the military.
Speaker 3: Completely When she first when we had our pre interview call,
Speaker 3: she was in like her military garb, and I was like.
Speaker 4: Wow, I'm so afraid and intimidated right now. It was
Speaker 4: like hot but intimidating.
Speaker 1: But also imagine that balance, like when you're doing that,
Speaker 1: you're serving in the armed forces, and then you're supposed
Speaker 1: to have like this casual encounter.
Speaker 4: It doesn't you can't approach it the same way at all.
Speaker 1: Right, No, it's a total seesaw. So yeah, so that
Speaker 1: makes sense anyway, Okay, well, oh we're going to wrap up.
Speaker 1: Will take a break and we're going to wrap up
Speaker 1: with Dylan mulvaney and we're back. We're back. We're just
Speaker 1: a delight, just an absolute delight having you, hear, Dylan,
Speaker 1: I loved you before I met you, and I love
Speaker 1: you now and I just can't wait to see what's
Speaker 1: in store for you.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I do have one question for you
Speaker 4: before I leave. So we just talked about how miss
Speaker 4: Marie there doesn't have anyone I have yet to be
Speaker 4: kissed as a girl. I wanted to know, do you
Speaker 4: think it would be better for me to rip off
Speaker 4: the band aid and just get it done or should
Speaker 4: I save it for someone special?
Speaker 1: I'm always about ripping off the band aid.
Speaker 4: I think I just you know what it was I
Speaker 4: needed to hear it from you, and so tonight I'm
Speaker 4: gonna hit the towel.
Speaker 1: I love it well, report back, will do. Thank you, Dylan,
Speaker 1: Thank you, everybody. See you next week.
Speaker 4: Love you.
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 3: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 3: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
Speaker 3: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 3: com