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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George,

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Speaker 1: and are you with you? Along with Stephen Bassett. Steve

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Speaker 1: as the executive director of the Paradigm Research Group, founded

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six, then the government imposed embargo on

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Speaker 1: the truth behind extraterrestrial rated phenomena. Has spoken audiences around

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Speaker 1: the world about the implications of formal disclosure. And he's

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Speaker 1: back on Coast to Coast Stephen. Always a pleasure. How

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Speaker 1: are you, George, It's been a while. It's great to

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Speaker 1: be with you. Great lot's going on in the world.

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Speaker 1: Are uphology these days? My god? God? Yea. Since the

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Speaker 1: last time I was on about fourteen months ago, so

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Speaker 1: much is happening. I can't keep up with it. And

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Speaker 1: that's my whole job. Let me get your Let me

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Speaker 1: get your first reaction to the congressional hearing several weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of that? Yeah, that's a milestone.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely May seventeen, first hearing on the UAP subject since

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, fifty four years. Congress always gets around

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Speaker 1: to something eventually, and I it went exactly as I expected.

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Speaker 1: And I was thrilled with it. Not everybody was. No,

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Speaker 1: that's true. The expectations are high, frustration is great, and

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Speaker 1: not most people don't have the how would you say,

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Speaker 1: the larger picture that I had the luxury of having,

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Speaker 1: because they haven't been following this thing for twenty six years,

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Speaker 1: particularly from a political point of view, and so and

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Speaker 1: some people just knew. They millennials or nineteen ninety they

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Speaker 1: don't even know. So a lot of them don't even

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Speaker 1: know Roswell happened, don't know who stand Free event is.

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Speaker 1: In any event, they were expecting so much more and

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Speaker 1: it just didn't come, and so they were angry. But

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Speaker 1: that's not what's going on. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of interviews is to try

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Speaker 1: to give people a perspective of what's really happening, so

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Speaker 1: that instead of being angry and frustrated in grinding their teeth,

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Speaker 1: they can enjoy it more because that actually it's kind

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Speaker 1: of funny in a way. So that's that's my basic

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Speaker 1: take on that hearing. It was limited. It was exactly

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Speaker 1: what you'd expect for an initial step into the issue

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Speaker 1: by Congress after all those years they brought two functionaries

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Speaker 1: up from the Pentagon who weren't picked because of their

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Speaker 1: great research in the subject. They've just high level people

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Speaker 1: who managed stuff. And they came up and they tried

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Speaker 1: to answer some questions. They talked about some policy, they

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Speaker 1: talked about this and that, and the panel conducted himself

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Speaker 1: pretty well, no gameplaying, no showboating, pretty much nonpartisan by

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Speaker 1: and large. That was nice to see. A couple of

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Speaker 1: interesting things did happen during it, which I noted it

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Speaker 1: and that was a that was the intention, set the

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Speaker 1: table for what's coming next. Now in terms of the

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Speaker 1: notable things that happened, which I'll mention, and I know

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Speaker 1: people have heard this before. A congressman by the name

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Speaker 1: of Mike Gallagher, Republican. He either came with this idea

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Speaker 1: or he was asked to do this. These these these hearings,

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Speaker 1: there's an organization behind the scenes. They just all show

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Speaker 1: up and freelance it. Sometimes they will coordinate a little bit,

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Speaker 1: see who's going to do what. Clearly what Gallagher was

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Speaker 1: to do was to set the stage for the next hearings,

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Speaker 1: and so he in his questioning, he suddenly brings up

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Speaker 1: the issue of Mountstrom Air Force Base, which is non trivial,

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Speaker 1: because that is that is the realm of nuclear weapons

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Speaker 1: tampering in the presence of UAP. That's dangerous. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just a very significant piece of events in

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Speaker 1: the history of this phenomena. And the Department of Defense

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Speaker 1: is absolutely ignored it as with best it could for decades.

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Speaker 1: They want nothing to do with it because they even

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Speaker 1: go there puts them in a very tough position. So

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Speaker 1: they just try to pretend it never happened, and the

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Speaker 1: witnesses don't exist. But oh, and they've tried to get

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Speaker 1: the Congress's attention to Bob Salas, Robert Hastings and the

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Speaker 1: other witnesses for decades. No good, he brings it up.

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Speaker 1: Now Bray doesn't. Bray may or may not have known

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Speaker 1: about Maelstrom. He may not have, and so he says

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Speaker 1: he hadn't heard of it. Well, everybody got upset about that.

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Speaker 1: I get it. What's important is it got brought up.

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Speaker 1: And then he did something else. Gallagher quickly mentions the

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Speaker 1: Wilson Davis notes, which I know you've done some shows

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Speaker 1: on and says, well, this is a controversial thing, and

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Speaker 1: I asked permission, no objection to put it in the record,

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Speaker 1: and of course Carson immediately says, yes, it's in the record.

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Speaker 1: Nobody even raised an objection. Now, the Wilson Davis notes

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Speaker 1: are not on trivial because if they are what they are,

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Speaker 1: and I happen to think they are, that is the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing that in front of a hearing would

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Speaker 1: be very explosive. Now they are controversial because Wilson denies

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Speaker 1: it all, but I understand why he would have to.

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Speaker 1: Davis doesn't say anything. Davis is the real deal, and

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Speaker 1: so he put that in play. These are things that

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Speaker 1: most people would not even have thought that much about,

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Speaker 1: But for some of Mike myself and I know some

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Speaker 1: of my colleagues, that was a big deal. The word

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial was used and well and it was over in

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half, no harm, no fouls, all good.

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Speaker 1: So that was a that was a beginning. More hearings

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Speaker 1: are going to be coming soon. Now, what is your

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Speaker 1: take on what NASA has just announced and that is

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Speaker 1: the former committee to investigate these as well? Ah okay,

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Speaker 1: all right for me to answer that question, I need

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Speaker 1: to I need to prep it with a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know how I love metaphors. George, you do,

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Speaker 1: you're the best of that. Yeah, all right, here here

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Speaker 1: is what in order to start to get a sense

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Speaker 1: of what's happening. But I'll take it too much time.

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Speaker 1: I want you to imagine this. It's the classic line

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Speaker 1: in the sand. It turns up all the time in movies, right,

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Speaker 1: And you've got this line in the sand, and people

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Speaker 1: have said, you know, you've got to if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: do this, you gotta step across the line, right, And

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Speaker 1: so imagine that there's a lot of people, and some

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Speaker 1: people actually standing in for organizations and then others simply people,

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Speaker 1: and they're all standing shoulder or shoulder, and a line

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Speaker 1: in the sand has been drawn in front of them all.

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Speaker 1: And that line in the sand was drawn basically on

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Speaker 1: December of two and seventeen, when the two New York

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Speaker 1: Times articles are published, along with gun camera footage and

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Speaker 1: so forth, which really launched this five year extraordinary era,

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Speaker 1: which I considered to be the last weeks and months

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Speaker 1: of the truth embargo. And what all these people have

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Speaker 1: in common is an agencies, is that one way or

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Speaker 1: another they're connected to the UAP issue. They know about it,

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Speaker 1: they may have been involved directly in it. They are

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Speaker 1: people of stature whose opinion would be considered very important.

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Speaker 1: There are agencies that have been brought into it. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: These are all people that could very well face some

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Speaker 1: interesting questions if the President were one day to confirm

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's that strastrials here and they all

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Speaker 1: have a decision to make, and that is do I

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Speaker 1: step over that line? And what does that mean? What

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Speaker 1: is stepping over that line mean? It means do I

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Speaker 1: step into the UAP issue or do I stay behind

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Speaker 1: this line and wait it out. Now you may say, well,

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Speaker 1: why would they do that? Why would you bother? And

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Speaker 1: the answer is really simple. When disclosure takes place, which

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Speaker 1: can only come from the President of the United States

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Speaker 1: the confirmation event, there are a awful lot of people,

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Speaker 1: end entities and organizations and so forth, they're going to

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Speaker 1: be facing some pretty tough questions. It may not be

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Speaker 1: as bad as they think, it may be far worse,

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Speaker 1: but they're just going to be facing some tough questions.

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Speaker 1: They won't necessary to come from the public, but the journalists,

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Speaker 1: who obviously are going to be in the middle of

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest stories of all time, head hunting

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Speaker 1: for politic surprises. They're not going to be holding back.

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Speaker 1: They're going to want to ask all the right questions

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Speaker 1: of all the people and find out what the hell happened,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to get nicey. All right, So what

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Speaker 1: do you do? Well, if you see the writing on

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Speaker 1: the wall, what you do is you step over that

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Speaker 1: line and into the issue, no matter what your history is,

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Speaker 1: no matter what you knew or didn't know, or when

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Speaker 1: you knew it. The point is that if you step

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Speaker 1: into the issue, at least you have done that, you

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Speaker 1: have shown that. As this thing is coming to an end, finally,

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Speaker 1: after all of these decades, i am putting myself out there.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying some things. I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to help, okay, and the effect of that

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Speaker 1: will be to how would you say, mitigate perhaps what

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Speaker 1: they're going to deal with post disclosure. All right, so

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Speaker 1: you got that line, Well, guess what. Over the last

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Speaker 1: five years, a whole lot of people and entities that

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Speaker 1: stepped across the line. We could spend the whole night

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Speaker 1: talking about him, but let's talk about one of the

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Speaker 1: most important ones, and that of course is NASA. What

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Speaker 1: NASA did a few days ago, which means that what

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Speaker 1: Senator Bill Nelson, the NASA administrator, did And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I assure you that Senator Bill Nelson wasn't just picked

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Speaker 1: out of a hat. He was the absolute perfect person

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Speaker 1: to become the administrator of NASA in the final days,

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Speaker 1: weeks and months of the truth embargo, former astronaut senator

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Speaker 1: who sat on the Senate Intel Committee. And I think

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Speaker 1: I'm a leaver, Well I'm gonna go further than that,

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Speaker 1: right for a second. He is the guy, and so

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Speaker 1: he is the one basically to make the announcement that

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Speaker 1: NASA has stepped into this issue for the first time

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Speaker 1: fourth the first time it is stepped into the issue.

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Speaker 1: And let me assure you of all the various people

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Speaker 1: that had to make entities or people that had to

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Speaker 1: make that decision to step over that line, NASA was

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Speaker 1: in probably one of the most difficult positions, I mean

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Speaker 1: really really tough. So in order to get that across,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your audience down memory lane a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and I want to go back in time. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to nineteen fifty eight. Nineteen fifty eight

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Speaker 1: is when the National Aeronautics and Space Act was signed

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Speaker 1: by the President, which created NASA right now, and that

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Speaker 1: would have been Eisenhower at the time, right, yes, that's right,

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Speaker 1: all right now. As it happens, that was about nine

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Speaker 1: months after the Soviet Union launched its satellites. But Nick

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Speaker 1: one right, and they didn't waste any time. And nine

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Speaker 1: months is about as quick as you could get a

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Speaker 1: whole program together, get an act together, get it run

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Speaker 1: through Congress, assigned by a president. They panicked, didn't they.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry they panicked. Well maybe, but there's a little

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Speaker 1: there's a little more of the story. Uh So, the

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Speaker 1: point is that the Soviets put the first satellite. Apparently

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Speaker 1: the Soviets got better German scientists than we got. In

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Speaker 1: other words, their paper clip program a little better than

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Speaker 1: we had. I thought we had the best with von Braun,

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Speaker 1: but maybe we didn't. Well, nine months is not a

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Speaker 1: lot of difference. But nevertheless they beat us. There. Mass

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Speaker 1: isn't created fifty eight. Okay. I remember my kids. I

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Speaker 1: was a kid then, Steve. I remember my parents the

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Speaker 1: look how their face when they heard about this satellite

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Speaker 1: that was up there, that was really no bigger than

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Speaker 1: a basketball. But I mean, it was this panic, like

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Speaker 1: they've got this thing, we don't have it. I remember that, sure,

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Speaker 1: I was twelve. I remember it as well. However, there's

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Speaker 1: more to it, because you see, nineteen fifty eight when

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Speaker 1: that thing was passed was just to the month. It

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Speaker 1: was two months October. It was October. But it was

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Speaker 1: just six years after the events of July nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: two in Washington, DC, when the Ets decided to party

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Speaker 1: over over the Capitol for a couple of weekends, creating

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Speaker 1: quite a stir. In fact, I would say that that

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Speaker 1: was far more of a panic probably than this spot Nick.

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Speaker 1: And so just six years, just eleven years after Roswell,

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Speaker 1: all right, we start the space program. Now, let me

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Speaker 1: be clear. The Soviet Unions when it's working with its

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Speaker 1: German scientists to build quote a missile to take a

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Speaker 1: satellite of and American scientist and German scientists that are

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Speaker 1: working to get our space pregnerm going, they knew there

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Speaker 1: was an extratrustial intelligence. The Soviets knew there was an

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Speaker 1: extrastial intelligence here at forty seven because they got they

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Speaker 1: got the info on Roswell pretty quickly, just like they

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Speaker 1: got the info on the Manhattan Project. Hell they they

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Speaker 1: probably they probably had two secrets. They got the secrets

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Speaker 1: on the Manhattan Project before Truman did, so they knew,

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Speaker 1: we knew. And so everything that happens going forward is

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Speaker 1: being driven by two things simultaneously. One the quote Soviet

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Speaker 1: threat and vice versa, the American threat from their point

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Speaker 1: of view, and the reality of the et presence were

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Speaker 1: not alone, and you have to keep both of those

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Speaker 1: in mind as you try to understand what the hell

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Speaker 1: is happening and going forward. Okay, so that's nineteen fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: and so NASA gets launched, all right, But NASA has

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Speaker 1: a problem, all right, a very big problem. It is

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Speaker 1: going to be the civilian space agents, which means, wow,

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Speaker 1: it's all about space and the interest and Project Bluebook

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Speaker 1: is underway at that time, the Nightcap has been formed,

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Speaker 1: The interest in the subject is growing, Kio is writing books. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: there is a growing interest in this subject by the

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Speaker 1: overall population. The Roberson panel that addressed it in fifty

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Speaker 1: three and they started the plans to contain it. But

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Speaker 1: nevertheless it was a significant factor. And here's the space program.

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Speaker 1: So naturally they would expect that the space program is

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Speaker 1: going to be a huge target from all the people

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Speaker 1: that are seeing this phenomena and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the government's doing about it. And so they had to

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Speaker 1: deal with that, and they dealt with it in a

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Speaker 1: fascinating way. Here's what they did. In the National Aeronautic

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Speaker 1: Space Act. There is a couple of very key It's

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Speaker 1: a long act, but there's two key things that are

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Speaker 1: absolutely critical and right and near the front. Section one

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Speaker 1: O two B is the core statement. Indulge me if

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Speaker 1: you will. The Congress declares that the general welfare and

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Speaker 1: security of the United States require the adequate provision be

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Speaker 1: made for aeronautical and space activities. The Congress further declares

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Speaker 1: that such activities shall be the responsibility of, and shall

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Speaker 1: be directed by, a civilian space agency exercising control over

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Speaker 1: aeronautical and space activity sponsored by the United States. Accept

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Speaker 1: accept that activities peculiar too are primarily associated with the

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Speaker 1: development of weapons systems, military operations, or defense of the

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Speaker 1: United States, including the research and development necessary to make

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Speaker 1: effective provisions for the defense of the United States, shall

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Speaker 1: be the responsibility of, and shall be directed by, the

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Speaker 1: Department of Defense, and that determination as to which such

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Speaker 1: agency has responsibility for and direction of any such activity

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Speaker 1: shall be made by the President in conformity with Section

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Speaker 1: two O one e. So what they've just said there

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Speaker 1: is that, look, NASA gets into anything that has defense implications,

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Speaker 1: that is going to be determined as to whether or

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Speaker 1: not the Defense Department takes over, and the President will

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Speaker 1: be the key player. Wow, think about that. What it's

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Speaker 1: meant that if NASA whatever, if they if they find

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Speaker 1: a toy on Mars right that clearly didn't get there

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Speaker 1: by a human rocket, that's a that's Defense Department anything

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Speaker 1: pointing to extraterrestrial reality outside right over the Defense Department. There.

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Speaker 1: They were handcuffed from day one. But it gets more

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Speaker 1: interesting because they referred to section two one e. Well,

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Speaker 1: what's in two money two one e is this? It

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Speaker 1: says in conformity, I'm sorry, in conformity with the provision

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Speaker 1: of Section one O two of this Act. It shall

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Speaker 1: be the duty of the President to survey all significant

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Speaker 1: aeronautical development comprehensive program, designate and fixed responsibility, provide for

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Speaker 1: effective cooperation between the National Aeronautic Space Administration and Department

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Speaker 1: of Defense in all such activities, and specify which of

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Speaker 1: such activities may be carried on concurrently by both such agencies,

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Speaker 1: and five resolved differences arising among departments and agency of

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Speaker 1: the United States which respect the aeronautical space activities under

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Speaker 1: the Act, including differences to whether a particular project is

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Speaker 1: aeronautical and space activity. In other words, the President, through

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Speaker 1: the Space Council, was going to decide what NASA could do,

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Speaker 1: particularly in all matters of defense. That's this nineteen fifty eight, okay, right, great,

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Speaker 1: and for the next years that was the situation, except

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Speaker 1: right Eisenhower didn't really have much to do with it.

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Speaker 1: He didn't really pay attention to it. When Kennedy came in,

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Speaker 1: he was under the Act supposed to be chairman of

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Speaker 1: the Aeronautical Space Council, but he gave it to his

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Speaker 1: vice president, gave it to Johnson. When Johnson came in,

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Speaker 1: he didn't get involved in it. May not have put

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Speaker 1: anybody as chairman. I don't know. I need to look

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Speaker 1: it up. The point is he was tied up with

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Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, and when Nixon came in, he's tied

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Speaker 1: up with Vietnam War and then Watergate, and so essentially

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Speaker 1: not a whole lot is happening, and NASA is relatively

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Speaker 1: safe with respect to the issue, meaning that from fifty

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Speaker 1: eight to seventy three, if they even saw anything filmed anything,

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Speaker 1: defense takes over immediately so that NASA be kept pure.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast amt

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Speaker 1: com for more