1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, we're here with the classic episode. It's just 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: me for the moment for reasons. I'm sure you guys 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: understand that the three of us do strange things sometimes, 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: and you know the guys are out there doing their thing. 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: So I just want to let you know about this episode. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: This one is rough. I'm not gonna lie. Just be 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: aware of what you're going into. It's about the Catholic Church, 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: it's about child abuse, and it's about the history of it. 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Tough episode to make back in when we made it, 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be tough to listen to it again now. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: But hey, it's it's important, so I'm glad we're diving 12 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: in together. Let's do that now. And uh guys, hey, 13 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: past guys take it away from UFOs to psychic powers 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel, and they 18 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: call me Ben. You are you the most important part 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: of the show, which makes it stuff they don't want 20 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: you to know. So to establish this from from the jump, 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: as they say, uh, I am not Catholic. I am 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: not Catholic, nor am I so so far as I know, 23 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: I'm not Catholic. However, we are going to talk about 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: something that examine and explore something that concerns the Catholic Church. 25 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: For a long time on this show, we have had, 26 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: believe it or not, a couple of principles, and one 27 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: of the principles is that we're never going to uh 28 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: denigrate someone's personal religious beliefs. Believe what you want, you know, 29 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: it's it's your business. It's a personal thing. Uh. And 30 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: if you don't leave in anything, than of course that's 31 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: up to you as well. So this podcast, despite concerning 32 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, is not in any way about the 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: religious beliefs or the values or the practices of the 34 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: Church or Christianity in general. Uh and so on and 35 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: so on. But beliefs, as we have found throughout making 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: the show, are different from facts. Yes, right, Yes, that's 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: a good point, Matt, Yeah, beliefs are different from facts. 38 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: This is more about facts. This is about an active 39 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: conspiracy in to be honest with you, a series of 40 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: numerous conspiracies, not theories, not rumors, not scuttle but proven 41 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: instances of horrific crime. So one thing, we promise you 42 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: we are not going to be extremely graphic when covering 43 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: this topic because it is an extremely sensitive one. We 44 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: do want to warn you in advance though, this episode 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: will contain some disturbing content just because of what we're 46 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: going to be talking about. So I guess we should 47 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: get into it. Um, Shall we have the facts? Ben? Yes, 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: but of course no. Let's start at the very beginning 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: with the Catholic Church. You've probably already heard this, ladies 50 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: and gentlemen. According to the Catholic Church, its history dates 51 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: back to the first century a d. When Jesus Christ 52 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: made his disciple Peter, the rock upon which the church 53 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: would be founded. All the other Christian denominations, by a 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: large originate from Catholicism, and the Catholic Church has done 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: a lot of good in the world's preserved immensely valuable knowledge, 56 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: it is at times promoted literacy uh and preserved great 57 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: works of art. But also there are schools involved of 58 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, so many charities, so many with all 59 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: of the different organizations that exist within the Catholic Church 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: itself or with affiliated or to but in the world 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 1: of Christian belief systems. Catholicism is ancient, which the most 62 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: fair way to say it is that there has there's 63 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: just a much larger passage of time here, which means 64 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: there are many more opportunities for something messed up to occur. 65 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: And over the past centuries, Catholicism has been associated with, 66 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: or implicated in, or directly responsible for numerous atrocities. We 67 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: have just a few examples. Yeah, some of those include 68 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: the Crusades, Yes, all out war that rages across the 69 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: globe because of differing religious beliefs, different gods. It's one 70 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: of those things that we still see today with some 71 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: of the Islamic terrorist activities and the idea of holy war. 72 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, that's this is a good example from history 73 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: of that. Um. We also have the persecution of heretics. Sure, 74 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: basically nonbelievers, right, m Yeah, the it could be nonbelievers, 75 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: it could believe, be a group of people who believe 76 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: in something different that's not official canon. This persecution would 77 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: also include, of course blasphemers, you know, witch hunts, inquisitions 78 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: a postdates. Yes, and that kind of persecution wasn't just 79 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: restricted to heretics, right. He also had anti Semitism and 80 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: um good. Another example of persecution of heretics would be 81 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: something like the Spanish Inquisition, where people were tortured and 82 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: ultimately killed for their beliefs. And you know, we could 83 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: do it occurs to me we could do entire episodes 84 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: on crusades and witch hunts in the Spanish Inquisition, or 85 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: just heretics or just heretics heretic thought. One person's heretic 86 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: is another reformer, you know, or like starting a new religion. 87 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,239 Speaker 1: In fact, if you guys know the movie The Witch 88 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: is a big fan of It starts with the father 89 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: patriarch of the film being exiled from his community, which 90 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: is in a settlement in the New World or whatever. 91 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: And it's because he takes a different approach to his 92 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: religious belief has never really gone into specifically, but it's 93 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: enough that the higher ups in the church deemed him 94 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: to be a heretic or an apostate, and they exile 95 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: him and his family out into the wilderness. Right and 96 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: in in this time and space, I guess where we 97 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: are now. It may seem strange, or these may seem 98 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: like relatively minor disagreements in dogma or in the details 99 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: of something but in those days, uh, descent of any 100 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: sort was it was tremendously controversial. Also in the past, 101 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church assisted with some horrific colonization, yes, you know, 102 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: subjugation of native peoples throughout the world. Uh, And it 103 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: is on record at least some officials in the Catholic 104 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: Church aiding and abetting Nazis and Fascists. Now before it 105 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: sounds like we're doing some kind of hit piece, because 106 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: we are listing a lot of terrible things that occurred 107 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: over a history of thousands of years. Yeah, you go 108 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: back to the eleventh century when a lot of the 109 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: crusades were happening, in the sixteenth century, then you go 110 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: further further back to some of the more heretical stuff 111 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: that occurred the prosecution, and then you move forward and 112 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: it happened to So yeah, there's just so much time, 113 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: and also there's so many people involved. So it's just 114 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: like when we're looking at any other large organization. You know, not, 115 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: of course, not everybody who works for a fed old 116 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: government is a bad person. You will hear in the 117 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: news about bad people who get caught doing something criminal 118 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: or in many cases get away with doing something criminal. Uh, 119 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: same deal with the banks, same deal with banks. Not 120 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: everyone who's a teller. You know, people are widely varied, 121 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: and aside from a few very common interests like breathing 122 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: and eating and staying alive, people do very different things, 123 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: even if they're ostensibly on the same team. And the 124 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: Catholic Church at present has many, many, many, many many adherents. 125 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: According to a twenty sixteen study, roughly one point to 126 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: seven two billion people identified as Catholic in ten And 127 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: there are how many billion people seven point something billion 128 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: people on the globe right now. Yeah, that numbers about 129 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: seventeen percent of the overall population of the world. And 130 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: that yeah, and the popular to the world is still growing. 131 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: It's going to be different by the time this shows over. 132 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: A lot of Catholics seven point four. By the way, 133 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: Global Park got the largest concentration of Catholics in Brazil, Mexico, 134 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: the Philippines, the United States of course, that are also 135 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: the wealthiest of the Catholics. It's the wealthiest arm of 136 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: the church um and also Italy, and Italy makes sense 137 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: to be on there, you know, Philippines being on that 138 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: list was surprising to me. Ben, you know, it's an 139 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: interesting story, and a lot of people in the West 140 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: aren't too aware of the colonization of the Philippines and 141 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: just how long it lasted in the countries that participate 142 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: in it, but do largely do impart to the Spanish 143 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: occupation and colonization in the Philippines. Uh. It is the 144 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: largest Catholic country in that part of the world. And 145 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: when we talk about the Catholic Church, Okay, we've talked 146 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: about how strong it is in terms of people, in 147 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: terms of people power, population, right, they have a lot 148 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: of people. But the Catholic Church also has a lot 149 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: of money dollars euros. There's probably a stash of bend 150 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: bucks in there somewhere. Uh. Their financial statistics are very 151 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: very interesting. So yeah, if you think about the number, 152 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: that number of people donating money every year, perhaps every 153 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: week or just every month, however you do it personally, 154 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: that amount of money going to a church over that 155 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: time span, Holy mackerel, that's uh Scrooge McDuck level of 156 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: wealth right there. Sorry, I'm not trying to I know 157 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: that's silly, but I mean, really it's hard to fathom 158 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: the amount of money that is cycled through. I don't know, 159 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: I could picture of some you know, high level um 160 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: Catholic clergy swimming around and huge vaults of gold coins. 161 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: I feel like that's not something you would want to do. Well, 162 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's weird, yet it's it's very dangerous to 163 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: try that. Oh yeah, we thought too much about swimming 164 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: around in a pile of coins, which I would I 165 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: would never do, just because touching that much metal would 166 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: be weird. But um, but we're right at some we 167 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: all we do know that people are ultimately fallible, uh, 168 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: no matter what your position is in the world. So 169 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: there is a widely documented history of very corrupt people 170 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: being church officials. And did one swim through money? You 171 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: know what? Honestly, no, I don't know. I'm not gonna 172 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: say definitely not. I'm not going to say I do know, 173 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be as surprised as I wish I 174 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: would be. That's probably the best way to say it. 175 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: It scares me. Whenever you're prized, Ben, really it really 176 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: means something serious going down. Did you see me lose 177 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: lose my mind? We're off air because I found out 178 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: it was National Sandwich Day. Well, you're very you're very 179 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: passionate about sandwiches. A man's gotta have a code. Hey, 180 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: and the Cubs just won the World Series. You guys, 181 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: that's that's surprised to me. It's surprised a lot of 182 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: people that you're you're gambling problem. Well, it's not a problem. 183 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: You're really good at it. Yeah. Ever since our episode 184 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: on sports Fixing, and as soon as they hit game six, 185 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: I went, oh, you guys, what is going on here? 186 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: Then they were like, oh, we gotta go to game seven, 187 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: and all the alarms were going off. I was like, 188 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: I need to get Brian Towey on the phone right 189 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: now and figure out who I need to bet on. Yeah. Yeah, 190 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: you've made some powerful friends and powerful enemies with your 191 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: newfound role as as a gambling tiger. And the unfortunate 192 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: news that Nolan I have for you, Matt is, no 193 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: matter how successful you become a gambling you will probably 194 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: never have at as much money as the Catholic Church. 195 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: Well that's not that's not what the guy told me. 196 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I'm gonna take his word for 197 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: it for now, but I appreciate it, which is certainly 198 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: something to aspire it to. Because, as we've discussed already, 199 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church does have quite a bit of money. 200 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: We found this quote from Wired magazine that Pope Francis 201 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: is not just the spiritual leader of one of the 202 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: world's major religions, he's also the head of what's probably 203 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: the wealthiest institution in the entire world. And that sounds 204 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: like a big claim, But we have to consider again 205 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: this is this is an ancient organization. The time span 206 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: involved alone gave it more opportunities to accumulate wealth, and 207 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: we don't actually know how financially powerful this institution is. 208 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: It's ginormous, for sure, but because it's not subject to 209 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: some of the same accounting and disclosure rules that would 210 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: apply to other, you know, other institutions, the best we 211 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: can do is make gues estimates. So our best guests 212 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: for a look at the Maybe the annual spending or 213 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: budget of the Catholic Church comes from the economist, and 214 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: the economist breaks it down into several categories. We've got 215 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: healthcare coming first, with ninety eight point six billion dollars 216 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: reportedly spent by the members of the Catholic Health Association 217 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: of the United States. Then we have education. Um there's 218 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot of publicly available operating budgets that um, they 219 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: mind in order to get some of these figures of 220 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: the two forty four Catholic colleges and universities that were available, um, 221 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: they added up to a forty eight point eight billion 222 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: dollars in parish disbursements. Then we have charities which use 223 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: the total annual budget of Catholic Charity is USA and 224 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: that was four point seven billion. Other figures included the 225 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: annual budgets of other national religious organizations that are under 226 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: the direction of the Catholic Church at some level, um, 227 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: and that added up to eight point five billion. And 228 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: what were some of those who want to mention them specifically, Sure, yeah, 229 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: there's the Knights of Columbus, the Army's excuse me, the 230 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: arms of various religious orders like Jesuits, Dominicans, Dominicans, Franciscan's 231 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: Opus Day of course. And then and then there's a 232 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: there's another eleven billion from the Center for the Applied 233 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: Research on the Apostle at Georgetown University. And this all 234 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: adds up to an estimated budget of one and seventy 235 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: billion dollars a hundred and seventy billion dollars in twelve 236 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: And honestly, ladies, and gentlemen, that's that's a guesta min 237 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: That's probably not the whole picture, just because we don't know. 238 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: So why are we talking about money? Why is this 239 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: important for the purposes of this episode. Well, we discussed 240 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: before on this show that money is the closest thing 241 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: you can get in this world currently to having a superpower, right, Ben, 242 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: that's your that's a quote from you. I remember when 243 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: we were we were talking about what superpowers you we 244 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: would all have, and you're just like, all the money, 245 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: because then you could do literally anything in this world. 246 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. Uh A wonder with the growth of technology, 247 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: you could eventually just buy superpowers, right, Crispers out now, 248 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: So maybe you could make it where when you do 249 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: that cash move, you know, or you make it ready 250 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: to your hands together, that it actually produced hundred dollar 251 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: bills and they just shoot at people. That'd be pretty sweet. 252 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: That would be great until uh, until it's totally messed 253 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: up the world's currency market, or someone would cut my 254 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: hands off and take them and then just put them 255 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: on a machine that just continually did that. Yes, I 256 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: went to a dark place. But the but the point 257 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: of this is that when you have an organization with 258 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: this kind of power that can be welld for one 259 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: thing or another. Having them support or oppose something on 260 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: a global scale matters, and they can be welled. Welled Yeah, 261 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean because wielded. I just like the that's good. No, 262 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: it's it's got gravitas, it does. It sounds like you're 263 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: strolling the strolling the planks in the n Oxford Theater. 264 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: I've been watching too much Westworld and I've got Ford 265 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: Uh Anthony Hopkins character in my head at all times, 266 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: his syllable. Yeah. Now, we're getting in the weeds here, guys. 267 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: But it's true. Money equals power, and it affords certain 268 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: individuals that control it what's let's call it privileges, shall 269 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: we say? Sure? Yeah, having the support or opposition of something, 270 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: uh can can make a tremendous difference in world affairs. 271 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: On a side note, I know we're in the weeds here, 272 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: but man, Vatican City is weird. Would you guys like 273 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: to hear some fun facts about Vatican City? Yes? Oh? Great, good, 274 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: because because I don't know what I would do if 275 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: you guys said no. Uh. It is the only place 276 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: in the world where the A T. M s are 277 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: in latinsally neat. Uh. It also has the world's highest 278 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: crime rate, proportionally one point five crimes per citizen. That's 279 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: largely in effect of the small population. These aren't necessarily 280 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: violent crimes. These are like, you know, pickpockets and thefts 281 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: and stuff. But until fairly recently, the age of consent 282 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: in Vatican City was technically twelve years old. Hamonda what 283 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: HAMMONA yes, and it was. It's since been raised to eighteen. 284 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: Uh that that last fact is not doesn't really qualify 285 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: as a fun fact. But I am glad that they 286 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: have raised their age of consent. Uh. And we know 287 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: that even though we live in an increasingly secular world, 288 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: many many, many people, many of whom are not even Catholic, 289 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: are very protective of the dignity of the Catholic Church 290 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: and especially the dignity of the Pope. Which brings us 291 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: to an interesting episode in our own lifetimes. So in October, 292 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: and on the third to be precise, uh, set O'Connor 293 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: performed on Saturday Night Live. It was the Tim Robbins episode. 294 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: I actually remember this. I was a wee boy at 295 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: the time when it happened, but uh, I my parents 296 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: always watched that show and I they would talk to 297 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: me about it. Um. But anyway, she performed war by 298 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: Bob Marley. Uh. She did it alone on stage, did acapella, 299 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: and during rehearsals she was going to tear up a 300 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: picture of I think a child like a wild who 301 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: had been abused. Essentially, the idea is that this child 302 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: is starving. Um and there I forget exactly everything that 303 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: was happening around it, but it made sense to the 304 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: producers of Center It Live that she would do that, 305 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: and that was the plan. Well, when they went to live, 306 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: she pulled out a picture of the Pope and she 307 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: said she tore it up and she said fight the 308 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: real enemy. And the producers, the audience, Uh, you know 309 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: it's happening live in downtown New York. Everyone was aghast. Yeah, 310 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: to say the least. Um, I mean everyone was just stunned. Essentially, 311 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: that's a That's what my understanding of it was. Because 312 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: it's not something you do. There's a massive backlash. People 313 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: in bonkers in a very very bad way. And I 314 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: can only imagine the amount of uh phone calls mail 315 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: that Saturday Night Live received about that and the network 316 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: that owns them up by way, of apology. When Joe 317 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: Pesci host is Saturday Night Live, he had the photograph 318 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: taped back together, presented it on air, wild applause from people, 319 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: and then uh said, you know, he would have I 320 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: can't remember his exact phrase. I don't He said he 321 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: would grab her by the eyebrows. That's what it was. 322 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: He was. He was acting like he was gonna grab 323 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: her by the hair, like pretending by the eyebrows. Yeah. Yeah, 324 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: And uh, Madonna rediscovered her own Catholicism at the time. Yep. 325 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: And again, I'm not going to question the sincerity of 326 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: someone's beliefs. But maybe he's seenna like a prayer video. 327 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: I mean, she's clearly quite religious. Oh man. Yeah. Uh, 328 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: I've never met Madonna. But Madonna, if you're listening, um, 329 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: you come on this show, yes please. But what ultimately 330 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is people we're so upset about 331 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: this happening, so instantly upset. Yeah, yes, And why why 332 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: were they instantly upset? And why would she do this? 333 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: That was the question on everyone's mind at the time. 334 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: And we have an answer to that. Right after a 335 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back with the answer 336 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: that we have mentioned at the top of the show, 337 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: uh sanade O'Connor was not just being some sort of 338 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: precious performance artist. Instead, she was remarking, as she said 339 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: in later interviews on the hushed up abuse occurring in 340 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: various parts of the Catholic Church around the world and 341 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: various institutions, she herself was a victim of abuse, and 342 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, of course, for their part, has never 343 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: officially condoned any abuse in its recent history. So you know, 344 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: of course in the distant past they would condone inquisition 345 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: trials or torture of native people's and so on. But 346 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: the modern Catholic Church is not, you know, is in 347 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: no way um pro that sort of monstrous stuff. Absolutely not. However, 348 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: not only has there been a proven epidemic of child 349 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: abuse within the within the Catholic Church where we're talking 350 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: in children of all ages, primarily boys, but there's also 351 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: no telling how far back this abuse has gone, where 352 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: it where it originated, or to what degree it occurred, 353 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: or how often it occurs today right now as we're 354 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: making this podcast, right many cases have been actively covered 355 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: up or ignored, with higher ups in the church relocating 356 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: abusive priest rather than having them prosecuted or invested, investigated 357 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: or prosecuted in a court of law. In the United States, 358 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: this phenomenon gained attention in the mid eighties, and fellow 359 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: named father Gilbert Gothe of Lafayette, Louisiana, pled guilty to 360 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: abusing at least eleven boys over his time in the area. 361 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: There's a piece here from Minnesota Public Radio. It goes 362 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: into detail about this and villainous. I just want to 363 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: warn you before you hear this, ladies and gentlemen. The 364 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: priest took boys on camping trips and invited them for 365 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: sleepovers in the rectory. He claimed old practices for altar 366 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: boys every day at six am and encouraged parents to 367 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: let their boys spend the night. His sexual appetite was uncontrollable. 368 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: He put bars on the windows of a rectory. He 369 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: kept a gun by the side of his bed, and 370 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: when children refused to submit, he threatened to use it. 371 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: And then it goes in detail about what he forced 372 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: these kids to do with him to each other, and 373 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: how he documented it on a polaroid camera, and how 374 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: this went on for more than a decade. He remained 375 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: in the ministry even when his bishop learned he had 376 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: abused one boy and licked the faces of two others. 377 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: After the second complaint, the bishop transferred him to a 378 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: small church in the isolated town of Henry, Louisiana, and 379 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: finally three a boy told his father, Wayne Sagrera about this. 380 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: Sagrera reported it to the diocese. The bishop sent the 381 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: father away for psychological treatment and offered nine families confidential 382 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: settlements of more than four million dollars. The reason we 383 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: know about this is because one family refused to settle 384 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: and they went public, and then the American public woke 385 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: up to first that you know, close community, and then 386 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the US became more aware of this. Yeah, 387 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: he ended up going getting charged with several cases, got 388 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: a sentence of twenty years, then he got out in 389 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: nine years for good behavior. Uh. Then he went back 390 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: for another case of abuse for a few more years 391 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: than was released again. Um, this is an interesting, messed 392 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: up case. If you want to learn more about it, 393 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: feel free. I would not recommend it, but go for it. So. 394 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: Documentation from the time also showed that the church was 395 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: supposedly concerned of a possible quote domino effect occurring, and 396 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: Reverend Thomas Doyle, who was a cannon lawyer, wondered how 397 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: far the scandal went, just you know, part of the 398 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: question that we're asking today, UM. Was this an isolated case? 399 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: Was it more widespread? Eventually he became more and more 400 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: concerned the resulting revelations could in fact bring down the 401 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: Catholic Church in the United States, and he teamed up 402 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: with Father Gothe's defense lawyer of filling him, Ray Mouton, 403 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: and they created a confidential report and was confidential at 404 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: the time, called the Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman 405 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Catholic Allergy. It warned that hundreds of priests might be 406 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: abusing children and that the lawsuits and settlements could cost 407 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: the US Catholic Church a billion dollars in ten years. Today, 408 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: this formerly confidential document is available online. If you google 409 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: the title you will find it. So they worked on this, 410 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: they presented it to the UM, to the church authorities, 411 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: and apparently it was ignored. In fact, Doyle believes his 412 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: career was ruined because of his push for the church 413 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: to confront the brewing abuse scandals. So let's talk a 414 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: little bit about the percentage of people that are that 415 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: would be doing this stuff. A survey of the ten 416 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: largest US Diocese found two hundred and thirty four priests 417 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: from a total of twenty five thousand, six hundred and 418 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: sixteen in those dioceses have had allegations of sexual abuse 419 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: made against them in the last fifty years. The report 420 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: doesn't say how many of these were proven versus how 421 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: many were allegations. Uh, so we do know a couple 422 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: of things. This means that it's by no means, again, 423 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: something involving every member of the church. Nor is it 424 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: in any way in decaying that every clergy member even 425 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: knew about the situation. Like, it's completely possible that people 426 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: just weren't in in a situation where they saw that 427 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: kind of behavior from a clergy member. Um. Yeah, because 428 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: that's what all like. That is a small percentage of 429 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: the priests, and you know, the vast majority of the 430 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: vast majority, whether it's Christianity, whether it's Buddhism, regardless of 431 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: the religion, the vast majority of people who choose to 432 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: dedicate their life to religious contemplation or religious service are 433 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: obviously kinder people in many ways than the average bear, 434 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, But than the average Barrenstein. Um, 435 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: I was trying to do a Mandela that joke, and 436 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: I just don't think it worked. You know, you did? 437 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: You did it? Is it? Barrenstein? I don't even know anymore. So. 438 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: The next question, and one that people have spent a 439 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: lot of time exploring, is what what causes this phenomenon? 440 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: Because it's real, It's apparently been something that happens in 441 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: multiple countries, multiple situations, multiple places, multiple socioeconomic backgrounds. So 442 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: what what's the cause? Well, according to Laurie Goodstein, who 443 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: wrote for The New York Times, that there are several 444 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: contributing factors. And the first one is that it's just 445 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: a matter of sheer numbers. Catholics make up about a 446 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: quarter of the U S population, like we talked about earlier, 447 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: through the largest single religious denomination that exists. And second, 448 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: the church keeps extensive documentation, meaning they're gonna have or 449 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: at least they're more likely to have some kind of 450 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: paper trail that you can follow. Yeah, And third, Goodstein 451 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: believes factors involving the nature of the priesthood itself may 452 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: actually contribute to this abuse epidemic. And within this one, 453 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: you you have to know that priests have this exalted position, 454 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: there is this uh, this thing called then you might 455 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: have to say this for me, but I'm gonna say 456 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: it in persona CHRISTI. Essentially the argument being that for 457 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: true believers, this is one of the ultimate authority figures, 458 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: This is your direct line to God, essentially allowing for 459 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: the potential for some of these folks to develop a 460 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: bit of a God complex perhaps or abuse that power 461 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: in some former enos in terms of seeing themselves as 462 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: an ultimate you know, figure of authority and twisting that 463 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: in a very unhealthy way, which leads us to the 464 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: next point. I think I don't even think it's seeing 465 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 1: themselves in that way. I think it's knowing that the 466 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: other person sees you in that way. Well, imagine if 467 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: you're if you're a child and there is some religious 468 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: authority figure who wants to make you do something, whether 469 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: it's whether it's some sort of abuse, or whether it's 470 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: something as simple as like, I don't know, steal, stealing 471 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: of zero or whatever, and they say, well, you don't 472 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: want to go to hell, do you? Uh, that's my 473 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: favorite sandwich and that good and go to heaven, et cetera. 474 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,479 Speaker 1: So there's a very there is a very unequal power 475 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: ratio there or authority ratio, and unfortunately certain um diseased 476 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: individuals use that um. Good Stone also points out that 477 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: there are celibacy requirements and that the priesthood is all male, 478 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: and some of her colleagues who have looked into this 479 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: have cited those two things in particular as factors, which 480 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: I think is understandable that that would contribute to something. 481 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: But you know, we also have to note, as she does, 482 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: that this sort of abuse occurs in institutions that have 483 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: married clergy, and it happens in other religions, and it 484 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: happens in just non religious family structures. It's a very 485 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: very different lifestyle, you know, UM. And you're also you 486 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: are in a position of authority in that kind of service, 487 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: but you're also answerable to this gigantic organizational hierarchy, you 488 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: know what I mean. You're very much living within a system. 489 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: And living within a system is not a bad thing. 490 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: Everybody lives in some sort of system. The most anarchist 491 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: person alive, if you're listening right now, you live in 492 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: an ecosystem and like the laws of gravity still govern you. 493 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, no, man, no, don't believe it. So 494 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: there's another thing. So these are these are factors that 495 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: are pretty strong factors, I would argue, UM, and I 496 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: know that good Steam doesn't completely agree with all of those, 497 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: especially when it talks about the structure lending itself to it. 498 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: But we UM, we do know that regardless of the cause, 499 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: there have been difficulties and prosecuting these events. I think 500 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: before we get into this final wrap up, we should 501 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: have one more quick sponsor break. So, since some of 502 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: the events come to light many years decades, even after 503 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: investigators in different countries found statute limitations had passed, meaning 504 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: that cases were not prosecutable, someone comes forward in the 505 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: nine nineties about something that happened in the fifties. UM 506 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: needs may differ by country, But then sometimes the offender 507 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: has passed away or is UM maybe senile or simply untouchable. Yeah, 508 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: because we're talking about fear. Fear first off, as a child, 509 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: if you're being abused, UM, fear of an organization, fear 510 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: of God even comes into play when we when you're 511 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: dealing with this kind of abuse, and it's a tremendously 512 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm only speaking from you know what I believe it 513 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: is like. But I can imagine there would be one 514 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: of the hardest things ever to do in your entire 515 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: life to come forward and admit that something like this 516 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: has happened to you. Absolutely, And another factor that goes 517 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: here is that the Catholic Church, for its part, has 518 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: made several public statements that it is addressing this phenomenon. 519 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, the United States Conference of 520 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: Catholic Bishops initiated strict new guidelines or zero tolerance guidelines 521 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: for the protection of children and youth in Catholic institutions 522 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: across the country. Then in two thousand nine, church officials 523 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: noted that abuse occurs in other religions and institutions and 524 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: indicated that this could be seen as some kind of 525 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: disproportionate focus on the Catholic Church itself, uh in instead 526 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: of looking at it as a whole in either religious 527 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: organizations or organizations worldwide. Right right. And then uh, there's 528 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: something that you talked about earlier off air met the 529 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: nick Lellan Commission. Yeah, that was that was in Scotland. 530 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: It occurred in Scotland with the Catholic Church there. There 531 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: was a report that was published on August eighteen and 532 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: it was again looking at these like what policies should 533 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church enact to ensure that children are protected. 534 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: That's what it was looking at. However, it didn't go 535 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: into any specifics of abusers or where abuse was occurring, 536 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: or how the Catholic Church responded to it. It it 537 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: it was looked at by critics as being I think 538 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: they called it fluffy, a fluffy report, and it just 539 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: made everything, you know, it was like a um let's 540 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: let's discuss it, let's say that there's wrongdoing, but there 541 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: are no real answers here on how to protect children 542 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: in the future. Still, the church has officially declared it 543 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: will take action with the UM like against these abusers 544 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: of Pope Francis in September famously in one of his 545 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: speeches saying that all responsible will be held accountable. And 546 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, critics of the the system and the organization 547 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: and the institution are obviously going to say that they 548 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: feel that is you know, a bunch of pr spin essentially. 549 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: But other people, especially many, many many people not just Catholics, 550 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: but secular people are people from different religions, will say, well, 551 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,439 Speaker 1: this is a very very very very very large organization 552 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: and they're hunting a small number of people. But again, 553 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: it is an inarguable fact that more than one time, 554 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: more than one time higher up authorities got reports of 555 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: abuse and just relocated the offender. Yes, and it goes 556 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: all the way up to the Pope. In some instances 557 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: there were newer reports coming out that the previous pope 558 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: Pope or Ratzinger is his actual name, but it was 559 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: Pope benedict Um that he was aware and attempting to 560 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: to like root out some of these people. But also 561 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: alternate reports that were saying that he may have been 562 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: involved with some of this stuff. And then the same 563 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: with Pope John Paul the second of like how much 564 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 1: did he know? And you can refine. You can find 565 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: reports on NBC, you can find reports on any news organization. 566 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: Amount to mention the Boston Globe Spotlight. Yes, that became 567 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: a movie, became a very well regarded film, and these 568 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: investigative journalists uncovered, um, I believe more than a hundred 569 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: and thirty crimes, more than a hundred and thirty instances 570 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: of childhood abuse since the nineteen nineties that were essentially 571 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: cover it up quite a way is up the chain. Yeah, yeah, 572 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,439 Speaker 1: and that goes I think those reports came out around 573 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: two thousand two and that led to some resignations in Boston, 574 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: right it did. Uh. You know, that is one example 575 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: of what investigative journalism can do. And that's one thing 576 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: that you can really point to and say, wow, it 577 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: it works when a group of people get together and 578 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: try and figure out bad stuff when it's happening and 579 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: then just open their mouths or write it down on 580 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: a piece of paper. Um, it makes me feel good 581 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: about the future of what investigative journalism could be. Well, 582 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: speaking of superpowers, I mean that is one of the 583 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: very few that we can actually wield as the ability 584 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: to shed light on things that others would maybe rather 585 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: have remain in the dark. Yeah, and we are going 586 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: to wrap up the episode today. Uh. We hope that 587 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: this has been viable information. Again, this is not by 588 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: any means a conspiracy theory. It is tragically been proven 589 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: true and at this point we um, we don't know 590 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: how far back this stuff goes, to what degree various 591 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: people were complicit. And of course, as we've taken pains 592 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: to say several times, we're talking about the bad guys. 593 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: We're not talking about all people who are Catholic or 594 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: anything like that, or priests or anyway and as you 595 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: guys know, this is a serious thing that it might 596 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: sound strange to some listeners. You guys knew. I spent 597 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: a lot of time when I was younger hanging out 598 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: at a monastery, and uh, it was awesome. Actually. Um. 599 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: But there's one very, very very important thing that we 600 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: want to emphasize for anyone who is listening to this 601 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: um and has concerns. Although it can always feel like 602 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: you are alone or isolated or trapped, you are not. Uh. 603 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: There are people who have dedicated their lives to helping 604 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: you or a loved one who's in a situation, an 605 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: abusive situation, you know, whether that's something involving the cases 606 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about now, or whether that's something like domestic violence. 607 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: You have people you can reach out to. And there's 608 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: a number here for the Child Help National Child Abuse 609 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: Hotline which you can contact. It's an eight hundred number. 610 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: It's one eight hundred four two two four four five three. 611 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: Do not hesitate to to reach out for people, to people, 612 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: it's frightening, it's terrifying, it's scary, and it's not your fault. 613 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: And I know that that brings the tone down a 614 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: little bit, but I think we like. The three of 615 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: us agreed. That's important information and and uh we as 616 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: always really appreciate your time, and we'd like to ask 617 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: you for a favor. 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