1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to Now, everybody, 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: welcome to the show on Matt and I'm Ben, and 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: today we're gonna look at the history of history and 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the changes inside and of course the stuff they don't 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: want you to know. Matt, I started out when we 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: were working on this podcast beforehand. I started out wanting 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: to have a quotation about history. We've mentioned the Faulkner 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: quotation at nauseum. Uh, you know Bob Dylan's at the 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: times they are changing. And that's a pretty good one 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: because as we're going to see, history changes as often 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: as the present apparently. Um. But out of all those 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: quotations um inside of one of the best things that 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: I could do, at least is just start off with 16 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: the most basic thing. A definition of history. History the 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: study of past events, usually human events, right, Yeah, that's 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: what we usually mean, and the branch of knowledge dealing 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: with this. Um. People, being an inherently self interested species, 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: have always been interested in the past, the stories about ourselves. Yeah, 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: we're storytellers because we're the only animals that record in 22 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: any way the things that happened previously to us. Yeah, 23 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: well we're the only ones proven to do so. Yes, absolutely, 24 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: because you know, as we find, the first histories were 25 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: oral histories, right, the just told I would if I 26 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: was a person way back in the day and something 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: really interesting happening to me, involving a caribou and a 28 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: broken spear or something, I would want to express that 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: to my friends because I thought it was a really 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: fun and thing that happened, So I just tell them 31 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: or yeah. Or there could also be a song and 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: in that song someone has the lineage from which they derive, 33 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, or a tale of gods and creation, Yeah, exactly. 34 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: And a lot of these things were mythical, right, They 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: were instructional things of one way or another. In some cases, 36 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: very very old histories contain uh values of a culture, right, 37 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: and history often back at this point in time, when 38 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: it was a world tradition, was one gigantic game of telephone. Now, 39 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: for our younger listeners, let's go ahead and say with 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: the game of telephone is okay, So the game of 41 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: telephone would be if there are a bunch of us 42 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: sitting in a circle and We started with let's say myself, 43 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: I told small story, maybe even just a sentence or two, 44 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: and then I would whisper it in the ear of 45 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: the person to my let's say left, and then that 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: would continue around until it got back to me, perhaps 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: a person sitting to my right, and then whatever that 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: person they would have to recite whatever it is that 49 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: they heard, and the change that occurs as it goes 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: around the circle. That is the game of telephone. Right. Yeah, 51 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: nobody really wins the game of telephone often too. I 52 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: suspected that there were people throwing a wrench in there 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: and purposefully saying something completely different. We're trying to make 54 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: it dirty. Yeah, isn't it weird that we just explained 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: telephone and there might actually be someone listening that had 56 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: never heard of that before. Uh, you know, I bet 57 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: it could happen, But I want to be honest. I 58 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: was one of those guys who would you know, when 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: I was in first or second grade, I would totally 60 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: switch up yeah, oh yeah, and then look to my 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: left and right when when they revealed the wrong message. 62 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: Classic bowling. I learned a lot. I become a little 63 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: bit of a better person, But the game of the 64 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 1: game of telephone is um instructive. It's a good framework 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: for us to look at the history of history, as 66 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: you said, right, So, uh, one thing that became known 67 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: as the first critical work of history that was written 68 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: down was called, in a burst of creativity, the histories 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: is by this uh, this cat named Herodotus. Right. Uh. Well, 70 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's full of errors, right, but it's 71 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: it's better than nothing. And this whole thing about stories 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: being full of errors, rife with exaggerations, outright fabrications and everything, 73 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: that was the rule instead of the exception for a 74 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: very very very very very long time. Well. Yeah, the 75 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: people writing these histories were a lot of time very 76 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: closely knit to the power structures at the time, no 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: matter what kind of power structure you have, So there's 78 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: a lot of times an attempt to make that guy 79 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: or that group look maybe a little better than they 80 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: actually or or a little bit worse. So exactly, that's why, 81 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: that's why we get all these strange, outlandish stories that 82 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: seem to make no sense at the time. Right. Uh. 83 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: For instance, the old canard that Napoleon was a really 84 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: short dude. No, there were slightly different measuring systems but 85 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: also it was a little bit of propaganda. Yeah he's 86 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: fairly short, but you know, it's like within average height 87 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: for that time. Um or the lurid tales, semi pornographic 88 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: tales that some um European writers would spin about the 89 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: New World and they would say, oh, yeah, hey, ladies 90 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: love me in South America, which isn't really true because 91 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: as we know, they were they were not there to uh, 92 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: they were not there to be friendly. So yeah, So 93 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: so basically a lot of times we think of history 94 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: as just this this known thing that occurred or known 95 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: set of things that occurred, and that's just how it is. 96 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: That's what happened on that date. Now we know, But 97 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: we we find more and more that it's more of 98 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: this weird amorphous conversation of of events that just continues, 99 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: and you can history gets changed past long long ago. 100 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: Past history gets changed all the time even now. Yeah, 101 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: like that thing that's happened recently about whether the Brontosaurus 102 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: is a dinosaur. That's a tough one for me to one. 103 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: I know, man, I know, but but I love that. 104 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: I love that you make that comparison, because, yeah, different 105 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: voices constantly interrupting each other, and anything. No, well, not anything, 106 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: but virtually anything could be up for grabs if evidence 107 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: that contradicts our accepted view comes in. And this is not, 108 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: by any means a new thing, and it's not, by 109 00:06:53,880 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: any means an outdated practice. Listeners, I assure you, regardless 110 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: of what country you were in, your country's history textbooks 111 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: are in in disagreement with at least several other countries textbooks. 112 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: That's not that's just the nature of the world. North 113 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,119 Speaker 1: Korea's account of the Korean War is going to be way, 114 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: way different UH in comparison to even the Republic of 115 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: Korea or the United States. Of course, especially if you 116 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: look at big events like wars like World War Two. 117 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: The differences in oh my god, you were you were 118 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: saying something a while ago about Japan and China. He 119 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: had an earlier conversation. Their accounts World War Two are 120 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: hugely different, right, and create political tensions today are used 121 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: as an outlet for political tensions. Of course, it's no 122 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: surprise to anyone that Middle Eastern textbooks UH disagree on 123 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: quite a few things. And I don't mean just the 124 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: status of UH countries like Israel, or the role of 125 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: the Europe or the United States and colonization and UH 126 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: overthrowing governments, but also religious matters Shia Sunni and so on. 127 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: But I I don't have the means currently to read 128 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: textbooks um that are in in Arabic anything. But I'd 129 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: love to see the I guess the history of the 130 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: Crusades in that time. I'd love to see you with 131 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: the other what the other side of that story says? Yeah, 132 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: and uh Russian UH textbooks also would have a difference 133 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: in comparison to the rest of Europe. So so even now, 134 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: even now, what we're saying is that historians across the 135 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: world or countries across the world don't agree with each 136 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: other about what actually happened and why we are where 137 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: we are today. This leads us to the evolution of 138 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: historical study or the big question is this revisionist history 139 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about or is it pseudo history? Pseudo history? 140 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Is that is that completely made up? Is that what 141 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: pseudo is implying, Well, it's a yeah, pseudo is implying 142 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: that it is history. That it's a tall tale disguised 143 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: his history, made by people with an agenda or with 144 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: a pre existing conclusion. Right, So we saw a pseudo 145 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: we've seen pseudo history. Uh. Maybe one of the easiest examples, 146 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: which we've used before is in the early European explorers 147 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: of the African continent when they would say, oh, well, 148 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: here's the ruins of this great empire. I guess obviously 149 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: there was some white people living here at some point, 150 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: which is which just shows that even if it flies 151 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: in the face of all evidence, some people will never 152 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: sacrifice their pet theory for the facts. But then the 153 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: idea of revisionist history is a little bit different. Let's 154 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: get into that, all right. We've kind of talked about 155 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: the history of changing history already, Um, but it really 156 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: goes back to the to these ancient Greek and Roman 157 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: scholars that you're looking at Plutarch and uh Tacitus and 158 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: really people have been editing history. Again, it's kind of 159 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: what we've been talking about. But but modern historical revision, 160 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: this thing that we call historical revision that didn't originate 161 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: until the twentieth century and really was after the first 162 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: major global military conflicts, so World War One obviously, so 163 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: that's when there were multiple groups who wanted history to 164 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: reflect a certain you know story, right, Yeah, this is 165 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: where we start dealing with something you'll hear about often 166 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: in pr propaganda today, and that's the concept of narrative. 167 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: So how would we depict this conflict decades later? Right 168 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: for the children of the survivors, how did countries become 169 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: involved in the war contribute to it? Um As they 170 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: were starting to twiddle their fingers at the fringes of 171 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: this Gordian not historians realized that it was impossible to 172 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: be objective because even deciding what you should leave out 173 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: or put in becomes itself inherently subjective. Right, So we 174 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: know that historical revisionism has to occur because a researcher 175 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: can find a glaring inconsistency or something that's totally wrong. 176 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: Because let us not forget that for centuries people were 177 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: writing pretty much fictitious stuff and it was quoted as facts. So, 178 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: for instance, we mentioned a lot of things about US 179 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: history that are often misunderstood. Um, here's one you with 180 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: George Washington and cherry tree, pretty hard, concrete data that 181 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: he did not chop down a cherry tree and say 182 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: he couldn't tell a lie. It's a fun story. It's 183 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: a little bit weird that it's about. It's a it's 184 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: a lie about a guy being honest. You know, it 185 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: seems legendary. Yeah, that's a nice little Matroshka doll. Right, 186 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: But so okay, So here's the biggest thing for me. 187 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: History is it's just complicated. It's super complicated because everybody's 188 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: identity is connected up to their history, back to our 189 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: oral history days, right exactly. And you know, nobody wants 190 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: to look terrible. Everyone has a reputation and that goes 191 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: that goes out to from the individual person to a 192 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: group of people, to an entire state and the way 193 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: you feel about this group or state that you're a 194 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: part of. And nobody wants to be made a fool 195 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: or look bad or look like the evil bad guy. Yeah, 196 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: and uh, because of this, it can be tough to 197 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: navigate things. Going back to our example about China and Japan. Uh, 198 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: the the huge argument about comfort women, right, remember that one. Yeah, 199 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: and that is uh. That deals with the horrendous activities 200 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: of the Japanese Imperial Army during its invasion occupation of 201 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: Manchuria and other parts of China. Now, are we saying 202 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: that those were bad guys totally? Are we saying that 203 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: there were good guys in war. No, I don't know 204 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: if you can. I don't know if you can say 205 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: they're they're clear cut good guys, are good entities in 206 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: the war. But what we can say is that even now, 207 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: the status of what happened to these women is a 208 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: very hot button issue. And in um Japan, some politicians 209 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: leverage this. You could say their cynical or you could 210 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: say they really believe it, but they leverage this because 211 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: they don't want it to be a a loss of 212 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: face for the army or humiliating for the people that 213 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: are regarded often as heroes, you know what I mean. 214 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: So you have to be very careful how you look 215 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: at that. And historical revisionism usually does a couple of 216 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: different things. Um Or it has I guess lenses we 217 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: could think about. So it has a social or theoretical 218 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: perspective to re examine the past through a different framework. 219 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: So Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States, Yeah, 220 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it, um People. One of the criticisms 221 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: I've heard before is that Howard Zenn has an agenda, 222 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: to which my answer is he clearly has an agenda. Right. 223 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: There's also a fact checking perspective that that you can 224 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: take to try and make corrections on some of the 225 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: errors that have been laid into history. Sure, yeah, uh. 226 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: And then there's also uh going back to that negative 227 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: perspective and the people who say, hey, it's not broke, 228 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: don't fix it. Why are you digging into all these 229 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: records about you know, Unit thirty one or whatever. Why 230 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: do you why do you care, uh what the United 231 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: States may or may not have done with Nazi scientists 232 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: after the war. Why are you trying to push your 233 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: I don't know it would be in that case, your 234 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: anti Nazi agenda, um, you know, your anti Catholic agenda. 235 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: If you say that they had ratlines helping people escape, 236 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: that is that's an interesting perspective to me. The idea 237 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: of going back through another country's history to try and 238 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: dig up dirt on them, I don't I don't often 239 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: think about that unless I'm thinking of from a spy 240 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: perspective or an intelligence perspective. Well, there's it's great that 241 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: you say that, because the historical revisionism or the um 242 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: the attempts to change the past through perpurgation, that it 243 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: her in things like four or in some instances in 244 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: the days of the s s R. These are things 245 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: that can really happen and can intentionally occur. Four, of course, 246 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: is fiction. But recently uh an event in China, the 247 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: anniversary of the A Tenement Square incidents, showed us that 248 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: historical revisionism in the negative sense is alive and well. 249 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: And then our video, one of our videos recently you 250 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: did that orwell quote that he who controls the president 251 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: controls the past, You controls the past, controls the future, 252 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: and it's scary because that's true. Funny story. Well, okay, 253 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: so to sew that up. Those are the three ways 254 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: in which historical revisionists can approach existing history. Right. Historians 255 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: like to refer to the years immediately after World War 256 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: Two as the age of his storeal Consensus, because people 257 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: were trying to build this concept, this meme of unified America, stronger, 258 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: number one, superpower, Get at me bro. That kind of 259 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: stuff didn't last long, last until about the sixties, and 260 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: then people started reading maybe no, I don't know, I 261 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: don't know. I couldn't tell you exactly what happened to 262 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: change that. I think that part of it would be 263 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: counterculture movements, and then also the struggle for quality in 264 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: the United States really gave lie to some of the 265 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: more rose tinted glass kind of stuff. And sometimes though 266 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: revisionist history does deserve its negative connotation, right well yeah, 267 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: well yes, because well it's associated with highly contentious things. 268 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: So one of the biggest examples would be holocaust denialism. Um. 269 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: And we we don't just mean at least I don't 270 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: just mean, uh, denial of a holocaust in Europe, right, 271 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: because the German Holocaust is often the one that people 272 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: think of, but also the Armenian Holocaust, yeah, which is 273 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: still a subject of intense revisionism between Armenia and Turkey today. 274 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And you'll have people on either side of 275 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: that believe wholeheartedly that they're correct and the other side 276 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: is just lying and it's it's a Those are both 277 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: two really tough subjects that I hopefully we're not going 278 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: to be touching on too much, right yeah. And also, um, 279 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: well there's another example right all the way across the world. 280 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: We could just go back to Japan, uh, and the 281 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: idea that Japan was bullied into Pearl Harbor by the 282 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: United States and did the combat as a defensive measure, 283 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: that was forced to do this by you know, progressively 284 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: more prohibitive trade sanctions or embargo was right, and now 285 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: it's time that for us to do one of my 286 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: favorite parts of the show. Let's get weird with it, Nolan, 287 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: could we have some music. Here's where it gets crazy. 288 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: Historical revisionism the way we're talking about it right now, 289 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: which is very PC and very reasonable and very fox Molder. 290 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: You know, I just want to find the truth, right, 291 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: But there are people who want to revise the concept 292 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: of history of the human story so much so that 293 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: they think we have had gotten entire centuries wrong, as 294 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: in made them up. Yes, the phantom time hypothesis, it's 295 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: the idea that our timeline has some holes in it 296 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: that were filled in historically, just with some junk that 297 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: wasn't true, some ideas, some stories, the idea that the 298 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: ruling class made some changes to make us think that 299 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: we're in different year calendar year at least than we 300 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: actually are. Psych your mind, that's right. People used to 301 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: say that once upon a time. Yeah, it's it's strange 302 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: because you know, as you said, it's a group of theories. Uh. 303 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: This French jesuit named Jean how Don I'm totally mispronouncing 304 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: that by the way, uh, he started, He's the one 305 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: really dropped the beat on this first. Um. He believed 306 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: that art and literature from ancient Greece and Rome were 307 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: all forgeries in century and a lot of stuff that 308 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: we think happened in Greece, in Rome and those empires 309 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: never occurred. And other people believed him. That's right. Uh. 310 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: A Russian mathematician named Anatotly flamenco I he he in 311 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. He really thought there was something to this. 312 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: So this guy, Flamenco he used he used this thing 313 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: statistical analysis, this to look at texts and mathematical ideas, 314 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: and even even though he's looking at astronomy astronomical observations 315 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: of the time, and he basically showed that this guy 316 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: wasn't very far off and that perhaps the Jesuits had 317 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,479 Speaker 1: kind of forged up some of this stuff. But not 318 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: just European history, right, Oh no, no, you're looking at 319 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Greek history, Roman history, Chinese, Arabic, even Egyptian history just 320 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: made it up. Let's well again, that's what this guy 321 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: is saying, right right, yeah, I'm not accusing you, okay, Um, 322 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: but there's there's even another one been. Oh yeah, the 323 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: more specific phantom time claimed that that you and I 324 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: talked about in our original episode. Uh, phantom time where 325 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: oh I got h I got one thing wrong and 326 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: this is my bad. I want to I'll annotate the 327 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: video on this because something I got wrong everyone should 328 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: know about. Uh. I say in there that North Korea 329 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: counts there years from the foundation in their country. Essentially 330 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: they counted from the birthday of Kim Il sung. So 331 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: that's a slight correction. Now I'll annotate, but you know, 332 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: as always welcome corrections, and we're really glad whenever we 333 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: get an opportunity to make the show better. So this 334 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: more specific phantom time claim that we mentioned in our 335 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: video is it comes from two Germans, heribert Illig and 336 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: Hans Ulyric Nemts. They think our current calendar was filled 337 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: with almost three hundred years of utter total absolute Matt 338 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: helped me out here, right, and uh, they think that 339 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church did this for for different reasons. And 340 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: when it was two thousand and twelve, they thought was 341 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: seventeen fifteen. So we're recording in which means right now 342 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: they think it is two thousand or they think it 343 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: is seventeen seventeen. And don't forget that's just going by 344 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: the Gregorian calendar, right, Yeah, the Gregorian calendar one of 345 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: one of the many calendars that the people of the 346 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: world use. Right, that's right. It keeps us on track 347 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: relatively well. Um, I was adopted in fifteen eighty two 348 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: because primarily because the church wanted to keep Easter in 349 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: the right place. Well, yeah, that's one of the most 350 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 1: important dates his Easter. Right that if you don't have 351 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: that right, then what the heck do you have? Right? Right? 352 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: And previously the church had been using what was called 353 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: the Julian calendar system, and during this time Easter had 354 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: drifted for ten days. Right. The Julian system was simpler, 355 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: it had a leap year every four years, was also 356 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: less accurate. The guy who ordered this this is interesting 357 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: because this really is a little bit of phantom time, right. 358 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: The guy who ordered this Pope Gregory the Um one 359 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: day on October four fifty two. Then instead of going 360 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: to October five, they went straight to October. People went crazy, dude. 361 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: People were not happy. They felt like the pope was 362 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: stealing days from their lives. Literally, you know, some of 363 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: their concert tickets couldn't be refunded. I mean, it was 364 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: just bad. The eggs went bad. I mean, the plague 365 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: doctor is supposed to show up on the ninth good luck, 366 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: I guess this next year. But um, all jokes aside, 367 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: all jokes aside, this was something that really upset a 368 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: lot of people. And if you think about it, you know, 369 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: we practiced daylight saving time in many parts of the world, 370 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: and the it's still kind of weird when you feel 371 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: like you gained or lost an hour just because this 372 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: system of measurement we use has changed slightly. So anyway, 373 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: ill right, Yeah, So he's as he's looking back over 374 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: these eighty two years, he's he's counting up the leap years, right, 375 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: and he basically realizes that the ten day error that 376 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: they thought existed was actually too small, and it appears 377 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: to be a thirteen day error. And he said, there's 378 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: only one possible explanation. The only possible explanation is that 379 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: the Pope somehow faked three full centuries, almost full centuries 380 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: of recorded history. Yuh, classic Pope, classic Pope movement. Alright, Um, 381 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I'm not accusing the Pope of being some 382 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: sort of doctor Whovian time thief. But both of these camps, 383 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: these two camps of phantom timers that we mentioned, they're 384 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: not by any means the entire group of fringe theories 385 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: about this, but they have some things in common when 386 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: it comes to their claims. So they claim that there's 387 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: a lack of archaeological and documentary evidence from centuries in 388 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: the first millennium. And this is uh, they say, you know, 389 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: in these relics and artifacts and this corroberating evidence is 390 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: rare or doesn't exist because of the centuries never happened. 391 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: But um, this is often explained by saying there wasn't 392 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: very much construction or literature at the time, one thing, 393 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: because of the right yeah, right, which I think is 394 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: already kind of calling something the dark Ages. It's a 395 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,959 Speaker 1: little bit of a sweeping generalization. But they also say that, um, 396 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: Charlemagne was made up. Yeah, yeah, I'm not not really 397 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: sure about that. So what's the idea they made him 398 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: up to or the Church made up Charlemagne in order 399 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: to support the existence of that century like that, that's 400 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 1: the whole reason that Charlemagne as a character existed, and 401 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence from the time that does remain 402 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: is uh, you know, in some way related to Charlemagne. 403 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: So how fascinating would be if that was true. If 404 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: that was true, I would love it. There's a there's 405 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: a book. I can't remember the author's name, maybe Octovio 406 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: pa Is. No, I'm getting it wrong, but he wrote 407 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: a book named uh the same the same guy who 408 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: wrote for Co's Pendulum wrote a book called Bodolino, which 409 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: is about this this guy who works with his friends 410 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: to completely bs parts of history, you know, and they're 411 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: they're making up different Uh. This is not a spoiler. 412 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: One of the things they do very often is they 413 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: make fake relics of saints Knife and Baudolino, like Body 414 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: badela Um. But it's a good read for anyone who 415 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: wants to see a fairly tongue in cheek look at 416 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: how people treated history and accuracy. Uh. So the problem 417 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: with that kind of stuff is they're saying that the 418 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: absence of evidence is proof, right, what of the most 419 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: most of the world's other historians dismiss this because they say, well, 420 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: what about radiometric data? What about den dro chronology. Yeah, 421 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: dendro can chronology is the study of rings on a 422 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: tree to find the age, right, and and it's fairly simple. 423 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: You probably did it as a student somewhere or maybe 424 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: in some kind of scouting troop and count the rings 425 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: and that gives you the age. Yeah, exactly, And it's 426 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: and it's fairly reliable. Trees grow in a certain way. 427 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: You can also show you when a big event happened. 428 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: And the more sophisticated your analysis can be, the more 429 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: you can learn about the world around that tree at 430 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: the time it was alive. So then this guy Famenko, 431 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: he completely rejects the radiocarbon dating that was used UM. 432 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: Kind of he's pointing out it's the same thing that 433 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: young Earth creationists point out. All right, So the people 434 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: who believe that the Earth is only six thousand or 435 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: so years old, I don't know where where else to 436 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: go here, Ben, I don't I don't want I don't 437 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: want to offend anybody. But my personal belief is that 438 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: UM that the Earth is billions of years old. Yeah, understood. Well. 439 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: The reason that they use a similar method of disagreement here, 440 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: the creationist Dan Famenco is that specific radiometric dating UM 441 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: is only approximate, right, and and and it's only it 442 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: only really works for items have a certain age threshold 443 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: because the isotopes that are measured are they need to 444 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: be in certain proportions, So there has to be there's 445 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: a sweet spot for radiometric dating, right. So Famenco takes 446 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: it a step even further bean and he's alleging that 447 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: there's purposeful conspiring going on between these guys who are 448 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: doing the dating and the people who want to have 449 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: a different story or want to perpetuate the idea, the 450 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: archaeological powers that be rent working in concert with the 451 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: pope um. Also, this is not to mention the other 452 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: things Flamenco does address point by point many of the 453 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: prevailing rebuttals of his argument, right, or the proof that 454 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: time as we know it exists in the chronology in 455 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: which we know his idea is something called the new chronology. 456 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: And and this goes back to pseudo history. A lot 457 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: of people tell you as pseudo history. But he he 458 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: also mentions that the astronomy doesn't add up for him. 459 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: He has he has all these reasons. People say he's 460 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: cherry picking data. Um. However, the truth is, ultimately this 461 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: kind of stuff can't exactly beat disproven because of the 462 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: nature of the way the argument is constructed. And we 463 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: should mention that Anatoly Fomenco is uh crazy popular, especially 464 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: in Russia. He's published and sold over one million copies 465 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: of his books. Um. Other people have joined in on 466 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: the internet trying to help him. Uh So. Critics say 467 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: that his version of history has this sort of nationalist 468 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: Russian agenda, right, and people people like to read it 469 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: because history, as you said earlier, being bound into one's 470 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: identity makes you feel better about yourself. Definitely. So. Gary 471 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: Kasparov also likes Famenko. Yeah, you might remember that name. 472 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: He's a world chess champion. There are a couple other people, 473 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: but we don't have to go into all that. Um, 474 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: well we should. We should mention that one of the 475 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: things about the Dark Ages, it's just that so we 476 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: say that. We often say, we've heard that the Dark 477 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: Ages were time in which culture just dropped off right, 478 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: plagues left and right. People just had to deal with 479 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: what was right in front of him and trying to eat. 480 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: I don't have time to make a tapestry, you know 481 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: what I mean, that's the idea. Um And so Flamanco 482 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: and people who support him, like hasproff believe that this 483 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: stuff um that that's sort of a yellow flag about 484 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: the missing time, the phantom time, because of course nothing 485 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: happened because those centuries didn't happen, or in their view, 486 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: I guess maybe there's nothing recorded at that time because 487 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: it all got burned. M m m. That's true. But 488 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: at this point, with with all these with all these 489 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: things together, you and I have had a heck of 490 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: a time looking at history at large. You know, we 491 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: also talked about the theories regarding the Sphinx, which we 492 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately don't have time to get into today. I think 493 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: it's its own podcast. What do you think? Oh, definitely. 494 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: I think Ancient Egypt and just the archaeology of Egypt 495 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: is a whole series maybe. And I want to be 496 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: completely fair and point out this um first off, Matt. 497 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: While I'm not convinced by Illeg's arguments and Fimenco's arguments, 498 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: I am entirely certain that within our lifetimes we are 499 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: going to weaving human beings, maybe you and I, maybe 500 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: you listeners, we will discover something that completely blows our 501 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: current understanding human history out of the water. We found 502 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: fossils of humans and your humans that sound like total 503 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: mythological clap trap when you when you mentioned it earlier. 504 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: You know, we found real life hobbits, student, they're real. 505 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 1: We found other versions of early Man. We have found 506 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: human civilizations thousands and thousands of years older than we 507 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: ever thought possible. So I think we're going to discover 508 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: more and more stuff. I I don't know if you 509 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: can suppress it. I don't know how you would, especially 510 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: with the Internet, if we can keep that open and 511 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: freec Yeah, But that question is how how will historical 512 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: revisionism work in the future when there's so many different 513 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: points of maintaining track of the history, of what current 514 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: events and what's going on. How is somebody going to 515 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: go through and change all of that? And is it 516 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: even possible now? Maybe if it's that's a very good question. 517 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: I don't know. You you know, you and I have 518 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: talked a lot about that, the ways in which the 519 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: ease of information is changing the human experience. Um, you know, 520 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to go back on the SEC thing and 521 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: net neutrality, but if if only certain websites are able 522 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: to be reached at certain speeds, and then all of 523 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: the other ones that may be considered fringe or not 524 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: as trafficked or don't at least don't have enough money 525 00:34:53,920 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: to get into the Usain Bolt lane in in Okay. 526 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: So then all you'd have to do is control the 527 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: information that is inside the fast lane. Right, that's true. 528 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: So I don't know that. Maybe that's just something I 529 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: was thinking about yesterday. That's a really good point, because 530 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't think it would be sustainable. This might be 531 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: some a story for another day. I don't I don't 532 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: know if it's sustainable to perpetrate that sort of inequality, 533 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: because what we're talking about then is an inequality of information, 534 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: a segregation of information, to be honest, and I'm not 535 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: I know that those could be loaded words for some people, 536 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: but that's what it is. It's kind of information apartheid. 537 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: And maybe not that the goal. Um, I think the 538 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: goal ultimately is going to be an opportunity to profit. Yeah, 539 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessarily in cities thing. But what 540 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: does something they would say, ben is is it? Yeah? 541 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: A s M I s M I said before. Maybe 542 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: you and I are secretly agents, right, I promise we're not. 543 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: If we are, we're still undercover that we don't know 544 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: where we're Manchurian candidates, or maybe we're like Manchurion interns. 545 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: That's it. So one line from skep Toy that I 546 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: thought was interesting is that the author said, these phantom 547 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: time hypotheses cannot be disproven because any evidence offered to 548 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: show that they're wrong is simply called fake or unreliable. 549 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: No evidence, it seems, no matter how well supported, is 550 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: good enough. And that's where I want to pass the 551 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: question on to our listeners. Do you think that the 552 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: current human understanding of history is right wrong on a 553 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: scale of one to ten, ten being perfect? You know 554 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: where where we at? Where do we fall? How do 555 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: we get closer to ten? That's really great man. If 556 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: you have any ideas, send them to us at Facebook 557 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: we are conspiracy Stuff. There were also at conspiracy Stuff 558 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter. We would love to hear from you what 559 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: you have to say and what you think, because honestly 560 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: we don't quite know how we feel exactly. We'd love 561 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: to share some thoughts with you. Check out Stuff they 562 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: Don't want you to Know dot com. You can write 563 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: Facebook messages to us there, and lastly, go ahead and 564 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: uh send us an email if you want to. Our 565 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: addresses conspiracy at how stuff works dot com for more 566 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: on this topic, another unexplained phenomenon. Visit test tube dot 567 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch 568 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.