1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,359 Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. The is still on the line addition, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: as we discuss how the Bengals can improve their offensive 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: line with Brandon Thorne, the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Coming up, we'll discuss free agents Ryan Jensen, Lake and Tomlinson, 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Brandon Schurf, and others. Then we get into potential first 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: round draft picks, including Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum. And finally, 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: Brandon tells us why it's way too soon to give 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: up on Jackson Carmen and the Bengals other recent offensive 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: line draft picks. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: pen tell Energell zero point seven millimeter pen. There was 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: a story about Zach Taylor in The Athletic that was 20 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: written by Dan Pompey back in November that mentioned Zach's 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: favorite pen. The Bengals head coach apparently swears by the 22 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: Pilot brand point zero seven millimeter. Now, I'm not much 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: of a pen guy, to be quite honest. I typically 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: steal them from hotel rooms. But I recently stumbled upon 25 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: the pen tell Energill zero point seven millimeter pen, and 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: I think it's turning me into a pen snob. There's 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: something about the quality of this pen that turns my 28 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: chicken scratch handwriting into calligraphy. Taking a quick look at Amazon, 29 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: it gets eighty nine percent five star reviews. For what 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: it's worth, the Zach Taylor pen only gets eighty four 31 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: percent five star reviews. It appears that my pen is mightier. 32 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: Now time to hear from my guest, Brandon Thorne, author 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: of the Trench Warfare newsletter, where he writes about and 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: does video studies of offensive and defensive line play. Brandon, 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: the Bengals are obviously determined to improve their offensive line. 36 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: They've got the thirty first overall pick, they have two 37 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: extra draft picks as well, and they're likely to have 38 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: more than thirty million dollars in cap space? How would 39 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: you go about addressing it? If you're the Cincinnati Bengals, 40 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: I would look to getting the best guys I could 41 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: possibly get. As simple as that sounds, I think you 42 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: could pretty much upgrade any position on the line. I 43 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: think probably your best spot right now is you know, 44 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: left tackle and Jonah Williams, but I mean even he 45 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: could be upgraded by somebody like toront Armstead. But you know, 46 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: that's best case scenario there. Otherwise, I think the other 47 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: four positions are pretty much up in the air. So 48 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, I would look at best player available, and 49 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: there's a couple interesting guys in free agency and in 50 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the draft that I think could could provide that. Well, 51 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: let's start with free agency then, because there are some 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Pro Bowl level players out there. You mentioned Ton Armstead 53 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: from the Saints. He's a three time Pro Bowl left tackle. 54 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: You've got a left guard brand and sure if a 55 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: five time Pro bowler, do you favor spending a big 56 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: chunk of that cap space on a guy like that 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: or signing multiple lower priced free agents. Yeah, it's a 58 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: really interesting discussion. You know, team building philosophy for offensive line. 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: We've seen it I think done more successfully recently with 60 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: the Ladder in terms of adding multiple, you know, guys 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: at more discount type prices. You look at how the 62 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: Bills built their offensive line a couple of years ago 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: when they retooled it. You know, they signed I think 64 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: three or four maybe five guys, and then they drafted 65 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: Cody Forward as well. And you know, I think that 66 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: gives you a lot. It just increases your margin for 67 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: error that way a little bit more. You could kind 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,559 Speaker 1: of just get by with that's, you know, just having 69 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: solid guys everywhere as opposed to just kind of center 70 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: pieces or pillars at a couple of places. So that 71 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: worked for them, and then the Chiefs, the Chiefs kind 72 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: of you know, they just allocated so many resources to it. 73 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: They didn't necessarily just get solid players. They got like 74 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: a really good left tackle, a really good left guard, 75 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: and then they hit it out of the park in 76 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 1: the draft. You know, it's center and right guard. So 77 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, ideally that's how you do it, but that 78 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: doesn't always work. Obviously, you know, they had they had 79 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: to have had a lot go right. Plus I'm big 80 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: on believing, like who your offensive line coaches. I think 81 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: Cincinnati has a pretty good one in Frank Pollock. You know, 82 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: Kansas City has a very good one in Andy Heck. 83 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: Plus the infrastructure around them, the scheme the quarterback helps, 84 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: which I think since he has some of those similar parallels, 85 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: so I think that they could execute a kind of 86 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: a similar plan here. I don't know, I'm not too 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: familiar with cap situations and things like that, but you know, 88 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: a guy like Toront Armstead would be an impact guy, 89 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: and then if you have enough money to go get 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: somebody else like a Ryan Jensen or something like that. 91 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 1: I mean that right there would completely transform the line. 92 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: And then if you can draft one or two as well, 93 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you know, you could have 94 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: three four new starters. So I think it really depends 95 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: on what players we're talking about in terms of how 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: I would approach it. To me, I believe Toron Armstead 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: is worth, you know, investing significant amount of money in 98 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: and making him the highest paid guy in the league 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: if need be considering the caps going up, all that 100 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: will probably look like a bargain deal in one or 101 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: two years. He's young enough to where I think that 102 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: makes sense. The injury history is there, and it's you know, 103 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: he's played eleven and a half games over the last 104 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: five years on average, so that's you know, a consideration. 105 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: But I think even if you're getting him for twelve, thirteen, 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: fourteen games, that's worth it just because of how good 107 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: he is. So that's one guy that I would advocate for, 108 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of investing a lot in the 109 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: offensive line, is like my centerpiece. But then other guys 110 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: like Schurf. His injury history to me is a little 111 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: bit even almost more concerning than Tehran so and plus 112 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: he's a guard, not a tackle. So I don't know 113 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: if I would necessarily go there with Schurf, but I 114 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: can understand if they did. Yeah. I mean, I'm a 115 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: big fan of Ryan Jensen as well. You know, I 116 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: think he's a game changing presence on the interior. He's 117 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: a tone setter, he's very smart. He could handle all 118 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: the protections, you know, alleviate some of that pressure of Burrow, 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: kind of like how Corey Linsley did for you know, 120 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: justin Herbert last year in Los Angeles, a similar effect. 121 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: Although I think Jensen's better, I think he's more of 122 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: an impact guy than Lindsley. Lindsley's more of a technician 123 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: who's smart. Jensen's more of a smart guy who can 124 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: physically impose, you know, himself on guy defenders in the 125 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: pass and run games. He's scheme diverse, he's big, you know, 126 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: he's Lindsley's a little undersized. Jensen's a big starting center. 127 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: So and he hasn't missed a game in like four 128 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: or five years. So Jensen and Armstead I think are 129 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: the two prize, like top prizes on the free agent 130 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: market right now in terms of offensive lineman. But there's 131 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: some other good ones as well, so you know, there's 132 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: other ways to attack it. Ryan Jensen's thirty. He's probably 133 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: the free agent offensive lineman who has been linked to 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: the Bengals the most. Frank Pollock at the combine talked 135 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: about wanting glass Eaters to have that personnelity on his 136 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: offensive line, and it sounds like Ryan Jensen fits all 137 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: of that. Plus, while he'll probably be high priced among 138 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: the center free agents out there, he certainly wouldn't cost 139 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: as much as Toronto Armstead, right right, yeah, because what 140 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: is the top of the market for center, like thirteen 141 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: million or so a year, and then tackle is you know, 142 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: you'd have to go over like close to twenty or whatever. 143 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it makes sense, you know, given 144 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: the scarcity of the tackle position out there, you know, 145 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: compared to center, there's more starting level centers and tackles. 146 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: But yeah, so that makes sense. But Jensen, I mean, 147 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: if Pollock said that in terms of glass eaters, you know, 148 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: and that whope dynamic of what you want an offensive lineman, 149 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: Jensen as the poster child for that, So that makes 150 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. We're talking to Brandon Thorne. He 151 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: is the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. I subscribe. 152 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: It's the best content out there to learn about offensive 153 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: and defensive line play. Let's talk about Laramie Tunsel. There 154 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: have been reports that he could be available in aid 155 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: with the Texans. What would you think of the Bengals 156 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: trying to trade for him, you know, so largely contingent 157 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: on the compensation for him. I mean, I think when 158 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: he's healthy, he's one of the six or seven probably 159 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: best left tackles in football, you know, somewhere around there. 160 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: So you know, you're definitely getting a top ten guy 161 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: if he's healthy at a premium position. So I'm I 162 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: would imagine that would require a lot of resources. He's 163 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: he's fairly young as well. I want to say he's 164 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: like twenty seven or so, twenty eight somewhere in there. 165 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: So you're getting a guy who's still in his prime. Yeah, 166 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: I mean, that's very appealing to me. For sure. He's 167 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: he's a better pass protector than run run blocker, but 168 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: he's still solid as a run blocker. But he's a 169 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: guy that you can, you know, leave on an island 170 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: against most competition off the edge, and that really frees 171 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: up an offense in a lot of different ways. So yeah, 172 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's a very appealing piece, depending on 173 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: what you'd have to pay for. It all about the compensation. 174 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: As you pointed out, he has signed for a couple 175 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: more years, which is also a positive in his case, 176 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: although he is making big bucks. Let's get back to 177 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: free agents centers. The Bengals have Trey Hopkins under contract 178 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: for one more year, but he's coming off to tourn 179 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: acl from a couple of years ago. He struggled quite 180 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: a bit this past season, and there have been a 181 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: lot of talks that the Bengals will make him a 182 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: cap casualty if the Bengals don't sign Ryan Jensen because 183 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: there'll be a lot of competition for his services. A 184 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: couple of other names that have been mentioned are Bradley 185 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: Bozeman from Baltimore and Ben Jones from Tennessee. Good fits 186 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: for the Bengals. Um, yeah, I think they're pretty good fits. 187 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: I prefer Ben Jones even though he's older, you know, 188 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: I think, you know, he's what five years older I'm 189 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: looking at than Bozeman, So in terms of long term, 190 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: obviously you'd go Bozeman. Plus he has more positional versatility. 191 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: He's played guard, you know, which helps. But I just 192 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: think Jones is a better player. I'm a big fan 193 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: of Ben Jones, so, you know, he's one of those 194 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: guys who has been really underrated for you know, I 195 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: think half a dozen years now that I've been watching him. 196 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: He's a guy who's a very good run blocker, and 197 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: he's a pretty good pass protector. You know, he's a 198 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: guy who can definitely handle the mental side of it 199 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: as well. He's been doing it a long time in Tennessee. 200 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: He really succeeds in a kind of a similar type 201 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: of scheme, is of compared to what the Bengals run 202 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: more so than Bozeman. You know, Bozeman's coming from Baltimore's 203 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: heavy gap scheme, whereas Ben Jones has been blocking in 204 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: Tennessee scheme, which is more wide tighten zone, you know, 205 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: which is kind of more similar to what Cincinnati does. 206 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: So I think it makes more sense from a schematic 207 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: perspective to get Ben Jones. And I just always been 208 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: a fan of him. I just think he, you know, 209 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: to get kind of technical. He plays with really good leverage, 210 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: and he understands how to stay attached to blocks, and 211 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: it's very impressive how he works combinations with the guards. 212 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: And he's been doing that for so long in Tennessee. 213 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: He's been one of the more underrated parts of their 214 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: run game. The work that he's done with Roger Saffol 215 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: next to him and then Nate Davis. I mean, he's 216 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of he's a key cog in what they do. 217 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: And from everything I've heard, you know, consummate leader, all 218 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: that type of stuff, you know, checks all those boxes 219 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: in terms of what he can bring to the locker 220 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: room and that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm a 221 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: big fan of Ben Jones, but he's just more of 222 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: a short term answer as opposed to Bozeman, where you 223 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: can maybe expect him to, you know, be there a 224 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: little bit longer. We're talking to offensive line defensive line 225 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: expert Brandon Thorne. You can follow him on Twitter at 226 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: Brandon Thorne NFL. Let's move to guards. If there's one 227 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: name that's been mentioned most frequently where the Bengals are concerned, 228 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: it's Lake and Tomlinson from San Francisco. What would you 229 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: think of that marriage. I think it would make sense, 230 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, again, kind of a similar scheme, you know, 231 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: with San Francisco being his own heavy place Tomlinson is. 232 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: It's almost a little redundant to me. With Spain, you know, 233 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: I kind of see them similar. You know, they're more 234 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: kind of a they're very physical tone set or kind 235 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: of guys good play strength. You know, they can get 236 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: in trouble if they're isolated in past protection against sub 237 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: package rushers, you know, and and really good three techniques. 238 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: You know, they're not going to be guys who are 239 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: going to be very good in past protection. A little 240 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: bit stronger as run blockers. Maybe a slight upgrade over Spain, 241 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, but I don't know that it's significant. So 242 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: you know, if you just want to slightly upgrade the 243 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: position and get a guy who I think is a 244 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: little bit younger that kind of thing, then you know, 245 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: it makes sense. But you know not I don't think 246 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: it would be a you know, a game changing presence. 247 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: But I mean, Tomlinson is a guy who, you know, 248 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: if he's your maybe fourth best offensive lineman, then that's 249 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: really good. You know, if he's your second best, you know, 250 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: it's your line might not be you know, that great, 251 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's that's kind of 252 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: how I see him. I see him as kind of 253 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: just a solid, solid starter, which is fine, you know, 254 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: if you want to go that approach, If you want 255 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: to take that approach and you know, add him with 256 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: some other guys, I get it. But if he's kind 257 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: of your prize guy in free agency, you know, that's 258 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how much better you got in 259 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: general terms. Do you subscribe to the theory that the 260 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: line is only as good as its weakest link? I 261 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: think so, yeah, I think there's a lot of merit 262 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: to that, you know viewpoint for sure, because from what 263 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: I understand how pass rushers and how defensive coordinators defensive 264 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: line coaches approach game plans, they're always looking for the 265 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: quote unquote fish. You know, I've heard it called, or 266 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, just one. They're always looking for that guy 267 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: that they can isolate in a game plan, and that's 268 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: the guy that they're keying on. They're always trying to 269 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: even if it's only two or three times a game, 270 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, as long as it's in a high leverage situation, 271 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: they're going to be trying to isolate that guy against 272 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: a good a good pass rusher, and a lot of 273 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: the times they're able to accomplish that. I mean, you 274 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: can't protect a weak link all game long. Typically a 275 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: lot has to go right for that to happen. So 276 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: I think you're playing with fire if you're you know, 277 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: you're building a line and just leaving one spot kind 278 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: of weak and you're trying to, you know, protect him 279 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: with scheme and stuff like that all games. It's tough. 280 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think there's a lot of merit 281 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: to that. My broadcast partner, Dave Lapham, former Bengals offensive lineman, 282 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: would be smiling right now. He also uses the expression 283 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: the fish. Can you guys have that in common? Let's 284 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: talk about some of the other guards. Some names that 285 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: have been mentioned possibly where the Bengals are concerned, Connor 286 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: Williams from Dallas, Austin Corbett from the Rams, Andrew Norwell 287 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: from the Jags, who is from the Cincinnati area. Do 288 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: those guys or any of the other available guards out 289 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: there really appeal to you? So out of those names, 290 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a pretty big fan of Austin Corbett. So 291 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: he's a guy that I've watched a lot of over 292 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Was a twenty twenty. I 293 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: thought he was a top ten right guard in the 294 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: NFL in twenty twenty. This year this past season, maybe 295 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of a dip in his play in consistency, 296 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: but still there's some there's some upside with Corbette that 297 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't think is there with those other guys. Maybe 298 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: Connor Williams has some of that upside, but I haven't 299 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: seen it on the field actually materialized as much as 300 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: I have with Corbett. I think Connor is more up 301 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: and down, especially in past protection. He struggles. I mean, 302 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: he's he's a good athlete, and he's young. He's somebody 303 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: who you you know with a good line coach, you 304 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: know and stuff like that. I can understand wanting to 305 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: get him in the building and try to mold him 306 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: and improve him over time, but that would probably be 307 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: my next choice. But I like Corbett. I think his 308 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: play strength is really impressive as a run blocker and 309 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: in his anchor and pass protection a lot of the 310 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: time as well. You watch him last year against the Bucks, 311 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: what he did against Sue was very impressive, and then 312 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, I have a whole tape you can go 313 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: on my Trench Warfare site. Every positive block he made 314 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: that season I have on my my sub stack, so 315 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: people can really see what he would bring. But just 316 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: a really good run blocker pass protection. This year, like 317 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: I said, took a little bit of a dip, But 318 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: I like him. I think he's a, you know, probably 319 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: an above average starter at right guard, so you know 320 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: somewhere in that ten to you know, twelve range or 321 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: so of right guards across the league. So yeah, I 322 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: prefer Corbett personally. That's one of my favorite guys in 323 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: the free agent class. Do you see much left in 324 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: the tank for Andrew Norwell, not a whole lot, but 325 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, he's a guy who he 326 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: definitely is a really good processor in terms of handling 327 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: himself in pass protection and seeing things quickly. He can 328 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: decipher stunts and line games and blitz is very quickly. 329 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: But there's just not the same level of explosiveness and 330 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: juice as there once was, you know. When he signed 331 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: that deal in Jacksonville, became the richest guard in NFL history, 332 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: you know. And I watched him a lot in Carolina. 333 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: I've loved him in Carolina. Former undrafted guy. I love 334 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: those kind of guys. But yeah, I just think physically 335 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of wear and tear there. Maybe like 336 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: on a very short term basis, you know, he could 337 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: provide maybe a little bit of an upgrade over Spain. 338 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure how much we're talking here because 339 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: I kind of like Quentin Spain for what he is, 340 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: you know. So I think we're all talking about kind 341 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: of middle of the pack, were below kind of guys 342 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: right now, but I think Corbett is maybe more above that. 343 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: So but yeah, that's kind of how I see no 344 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: ORL right now. Brandon Thorne is our guest. He is 345 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. Again, I subscribe 346 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: and I highly recommend it. If you're interest didn't learning 347 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: more about offensive and defensive line play, Let's move to tackles. 348 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: Aside from Tehran Armstead, who will be the highest priced 349 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: free agent tackle out there, what other guys are available 350 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: that you like? So on a short term basis, there's 351 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: some there's some bridge type guys at left tackle, at 352 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: least if if Cincinnati wanted to move Jonah Williams to 353 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: the right side or whatever, you know, I guess that's feasible. 354 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: You know, he played right tackle at Alabama at least 355 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: for one season. So Dwayne Brown is a guy who 356 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: I like. He kind of he definitely dipped last year 357 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: compared to twenty twenty. Twenty twenty he was excellent, Like 358 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: he was one of the five or six best left 359 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: tackles in the game. In twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, 360 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: it was a little bit more up and down. Their 361 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: whole offensive line was really But I think if you're 362 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: talking about for a year or two, Dwayne Brown is 363 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: somebody that I would really like. And then another guy 364 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: kind of like that who's maybe doesn't even have that 365 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: much left in the tank. He's four years old. Jason Peters. 366 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: You know, Peters is a guy if he's like your 367 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: fourth best offensive lineman at this point, third maybe then 368 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. But I just I'm watching every snap 369 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: of him for a highlight tape I'm making, and Peters 370 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: was better than I think a lot of people thought, 371 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: considering he was thirty nine last year and he got 372 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: signed Layton training Camp all that stuff. He has some 373 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: pretty impressive reps that he put on tape and definitely 374 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: isn't the same guy. You know, he's a Hall of Famer, 375 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: but he's not what he once was. But he's so crafty. 376 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: He's still very strong, and I think he's a guy 377 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: that you can definitely win with if you signed him 378 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: on obviously like a one year deal, but in terms 379 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: of like answers, you know, long term at the tackle position, 380 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: I don't really think you're going to find anybody in 381 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: free agency. You know, I'm looking at the list again, 382 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: but I mean for more than one or two years. 383 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I really like Trent Round, but it's just 384 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: tough to bank on him being available week in week out. 385 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: But his upside I think is probably the highest after 386 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: Armstead in the whole class um. But there's a lot 387 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: of variants there, so that one's tough. But yeah, tackle 388 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: is just the position on the line. It's like quarterback. 389 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they very rarely hit the market 390 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: like Toronto Armstead does. You know where you're getting the 391 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: top three or four guy at his position, and they 392 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: just don't make a lot of those guys. You know, 393 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: there's just there's just not a lot of offensive tackles period, 394 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: you know. I mean it's funny I talk about this 395 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: kind of a sidebar, but like the developmental leagues that 396 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: pop up, I always say that it might as well 397 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: be seven on seven because the offensive line is always 398 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: going to be bad in those. It's just it's just 399 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: the way it is, especially tackle, because there's not enough 400 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: to fill NFL rosters, you know, let alone developmental league. 401 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, it's just the way it is tackle. 402 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the demand is always gonna outweigh the supply. 403 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: It's just always going to be that way. And I 404 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: think that's the case here in terms of long term answers. 405 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: There's some short term guys I likee Like I said, 406 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: but long term you got to go in the draft. 407 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: You know, pretty much Morgan Moses doesn't do much for 408 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: you that would probably he'd probably be in the top five, 409 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, if we're talking about short term again for him, 410 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, he's younger than those other guys for sure. Moses, Yeah, 411 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: he's a guy who's played injured a lot over the 412 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: last few years. I'm not I'm not sure how much 413 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: longer he would have at a very high level. We're 414 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: at a high level, but yeah, he's a guy, you know, 415 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: I would say after I think Trent Brown is definitely 416 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: better than Morgan Moses, but Morgan Moses is more reliable, 417 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: so he might have more value in a lot of ways, 418 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: which I totally get. But yeah, he's He's definitely one 419 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: of the five best. You know, I'd say Trent Brown, Peters, 420 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: Dwayne Brown, Moses Armstead, those would probably be my top 421 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: tackles in the free agency market before we get to 422 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: the draft. Between the regular season and the four playoff 423 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: games last year, Joe Burrow out sacks seventy times, and 424 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: Zach Taylor often points out it's not all on the 425 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: offensive line in the Bengals case. How much validity is 426 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: there to that, I mean, I think maybe not. I 427 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: don't totally agree with that, but I understand what he's saying. 428 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean, just generally speaking, Yeah, I get that. Yeah, 429 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: I mean, sacks oftentimes are more the onus is more 430 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: on the quarterback than the offensive line. But in Cincinnati's case, specifically, 431 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: I think the offensive line was clearly an issue, especially 432 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: on the right side. You know, when you had multiple 433 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: backups in there, Isaiah Prince and you know, kind of 434 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: that rotation at right guard, and that was an issue. 435 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can't roll out Isaiah Prince at 436 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: right tackle and expect to you know, block high level 437 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: edge rushers, and then at right guard as well. With 438 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: Identity and Jackson Carmen. I mean, I think, obviously Carmen, 439 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: you still want to have him compete for a job 440 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: next year. He's a rookie, he's very young, all that 441 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: type of stuff. I still think there's a pathway for 442 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: him to start. But yeah, I just they had multiple 443 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: backup caliber players playing on the right side, and you know, 444 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: they did obviously a very admirable job as it collectively 445 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: as a whole as an offense getting to where they 446 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: got and producing how they produced. But when you isolate 447 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: the offensive line, it was certainly an issue on the 448 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: right side. Especially Carmen and Identagy were both tackles in 449 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: college and tried to play right guard last year in 450 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: the NFL. How difficult is it to make that switch, 451 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: especially early in your NFL career. I think it's I 452 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: didn't watch a dentagy in college, but I wrote a 453 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: full scouting report on Jackson Carmen. People can read online 454 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: if you just google that. But Carmen I saw his 455 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: guard in the NFL because of his struggles attackle at Clemson. 456 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: The thing about moving that makes it more difficult inside 457 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: from outside is if you switch sides as well, which 458 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: Carmen did. It's not like he was a right tackle 459 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: going to right guard. He's a left tackle going to 460 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: right guard. So that kind of, you know, rows a 461 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: bigger wrench in sort of just the biomechanical aspect of 462 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: switching positions. Not only are you doing that, but you're 463 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: switching the side. So you just have to kind of 464 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: reconfigure your technique in a way. You know that is difficult. 465 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, people have compared it to writing with your 466 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: opposite hand. You know people have tried that. Obviously, see 467 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: how foreign that is. It's how weird it is, and 468 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: that's kind of a similar dynamic. It takes a lot 469 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: of reps. It takes a lot of practice, and you 470 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: just have to learn and kind of rewire your body 471 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: to operate on a different side. Your strengths, you know, 472 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: become like the dominant side becomes your non dominant side 473 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: and vice versa. And that's that's difficult. So some guys 474 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: adapt to it way better than others. But I say 475 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: that I would say that's the exception more than the rule. 476 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: Most guys, if you're switching side, it's very difficult and 477 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: it takes time, especially as a young guy like you said. 478 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: So I'm still you know, I think I gave Carmen 479 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: a third round grade. You know, I thought his technique 480 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: needed a lot of work at tackle hand usage, stuff 481 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: like that, getting too wide, you know, allowing guys to 482 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: get inside his chest and not playing with good leverage. 483 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: But in terms of sheer, explosiveness, power size, those kind 484 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: of things he has. So there's a foundation there to 485 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: become a starter, I think. So I would still expect 486 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: him to compete for a job at least. But yeah, yeah, 487 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: But to answer your original question, the right side was definitely, 488 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, a major issue. We're chatting with Brandon Thorne, 489 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: the offensive and defensive line guru. You can follow him 490 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Brandon Thorne NFL. Let's get to the draft. 491 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: The Bengals have the thirty first overall pick. Let's just 492 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,239 Speaker 1: say they stay there at thirty one. Who are some 493 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: offensive linemen that you think have a decent chance of 494 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: still being there at thirty one that interests you? Well, 495 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: we'll start interior first. I'm looking at the interier. I 496 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: think Tyler Linderbaum could be there. Obviously, he's for me, 497 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: one of the three best offensive linemen in the class. 498 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: So you know, the thing with him is he has 499 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: thirty one and one eighth in charms, which is you know, 500 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: it's a concern, you know. I mean, there's gonna be 501 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: certain matchups in the NFL, certain nose tackles and other 502 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: rushers who are going it's going to be very difficult 503 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: for him to prevent them from accessing his frame and 504 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: controlling him. You know, that's just something you're gonna kind 505 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: of have to live with and you're gonna have to 506 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: adapt to him. So that's why I think he might 507 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: be available there. Even though what he does in the 508 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: run game I believe is really special and I think 509 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: he's much more powerful than somebody like Garrett Bradberry coming out, 510 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: who's oftentimes the comparison for him. I think he's very similar, 511 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: but he's just more powerful. So that to me would 512 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: I think translate to him being a better run blocker. 513 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: But I equated to how the Eagles treat Jason Kelsey, 514 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: Wh's not every team is equipped to do this, but 515 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, the guards are not allowed to help the 516 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: tackles in pass protection because they have to stay inside 517 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: and help Kelsey. And that's just what you have to 518 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: do with Jason Kelsey. You have to help him in 519 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: pass protection against certain guys because he's two hundred and 520 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: eighty five pounds, you know, he's two hundred and ninety 521 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: pounds whatever he is, you know, and he just doesn't 522 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: have the mass and the girth and the lower half 523 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: strength to hold up, you know, against certain guys. So 524 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: he has brand. He had Brandon Brooks on one side, 525 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: Isaac Siamalo on the other. They always had giant guards 526 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: next to him, and that's because they had elite tackles 527 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: and Peters and Lane Johnson, so they were able to 528 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: do that, you know. Ideally, That's kind of the situation 529 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: that Linderbaum goes into a place that has two bigger 530 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: type of guards who can provide him some help and 531 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: really good tackles. Now, obviously not a lot of teams 532 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: are able to provide that infrastructure, so the you know, 533 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: in terms of projecting lender Bomb, it becomes tricky, you know. 534 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: But that's why I think he could be available there. 535 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: Even though early in the process he was sometimes rumored 536 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: to be a top ten pick, I don't think that's 537 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: going to happen now. So lender Bomb is a guy 538 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: if they want to upgrade center and especially in the 539 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: run game, and just offer something totally different than Trey 540 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: Hopkins in terms of what he can do in the 541 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: zone run game. And then there's two guards that I 542 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: could see being available there at Zion Johnson, who's probably 543 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: my biggest guy in the draft. I was very high 544 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: on him, and when I wrote his report in January 545 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: had him as a first round pick, and then he 546 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: crushed the Senior Bowl process, crushed the Combine and that 547 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: was just awesome. He even exceeded my expectations at the Combine. 548 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: So and I'm very high on Zion. I think Zion 549 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: is a plug and play guard. He is very well 550 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: rounded technically sound, strong, powerful. I mean, not the most 551 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: physically imposing guy because he's you know, just I mean 552 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: six six two and a half three fifteen, so he's 553 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: not like the biggest guard, but plenty of size. He's 554 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: he has a great build and all that stuff. He's smart, 555 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, play processing skills are impressive. I mean, I 556 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: just think he's very well rounded. I compared him to 557 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: Kevin Zeitler actually so, and I can kind of see 558 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: like that type of player, you know, where Zeitler was 559 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: above average for a decade, you know, maybe a little 560 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: better at times as well. So that's kind of how 561 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: I see Zion. Kenyan Green is another guy who could 562 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: be available there. I think it's possible. He's he has 563 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: a little bit more flashes of power than Zion does. 564 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: He's bigger, you know than Zion, but I just think 565 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: technically he has more. He's not as clean as Zion 566 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: Johnson is, So I have a second round grade on 567 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: Kenyan Green, but he's gonna go in the first round probably. 568 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: So those would be three guys on the interior that 569 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: I think would be really nice for the Bengals to 570 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: get any one of those guys. And then as far 571 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: as tackle. I think you're looking at two names really 572 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: maybe three, but Bernard Raymond, Trevor Penning, and Daniel Filele. 573 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: I personally have Filele with like a mid to late 574 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: second round grade, more late second, but I think it's 575 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: feasible he could go there. It depends on if Raymond 576 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: or Penning are gone, you know. I think those are 577 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: the two you're looking at there in terms of tackle, 578 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: and I have both of their grades. For me personally 579 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: is like a fringe first, so late first, early second, 580 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: that's how I see them. I'm sure Penning will go higher, 581 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: He'll he probably won't be available, honestly, but I think 582 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: Raymond is probably the guy who could be available there. 583 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: And I compared him to Jake Matthews. So if you 584 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: just think about Jake Matthews, who he is as a player. 585 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: He's solid to above average at times, but more so 586 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: middle of the pack tackle, really athletic. I think he's 587 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: probably stronger than Jake Matthews coming out. The only thing 588 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: is with Raymond he has short arms, which isn't as 589 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: big of a deal to me as it maybe just 590 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: some other people. The one thing that's kind of concerning 591 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: is he's gonna be a twenty five year old rookie, 592 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: so he's gonna be older. The only thing with that 593 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: is there's kind of a dichotomy there because he's only 594 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: played eighteen games of offensive line in his life. So 595 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: even though he's older, he's very young in terms of, 596 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, football player, in terms of playing offensive line, 597 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: and he's already very like, very polished for only playing 598 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: eighteen games. It's really impressive, So I think he can 599 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: still get quite a bit better even though he's older. 600 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: So I like Raymond a pretty good amount. So I 601 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: would say probably the top guys is like linder Bomb, 602 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: Zion Johnson, and Bernard Raymond. Those are probably the three, 603 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: and I would be very happy with probably any of 604 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: those guys if I was a Bengals fan. So linder 605 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,479 Speaker 1: Bomb played at Iowa, Zion Johnson Boston College, Raymond at 606 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: Central Michigan. I think if you look at the Bengals 607 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: recent draft history, they tend to go for major friends lineman, 608 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: at least with their early picks. Do you have any 609 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: concern about a guy who played at Central Michigan being 610 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: a first round pick? A little bit, but at thirty 611 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: one then you know not as much there You know, 612 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: because that's that's just at the tail end, and you 613 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: just want to prevent you know, the top of the 614 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: second round teams from getting him, you know what I mean. 615 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: And even though he might be a top second, top 616 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: of the second kind of value, if you get him 617 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: at thirty one, I think that's okay. So yeah, but 618 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: I think always, yeah, if you're if you're drafting a 619 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: smaller school guy, you want to see them dominate, you know, 620 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: And Raymond I wouldn't say was dominant, but I would 621 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: say he was very good and at the Senior Bowl 622 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: was up and down. So there's there's some you know, 623 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: definitely you could poke holes in his evaluation. That's why 624 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: I have a fringe first on him. You know, it's 625 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: not quite a first, you know, it's not quite a 626 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of like right in that pick thirty one range. 627 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: So to me it would make sense. But I can 628 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: understand how if you're a little lower on a guy 629 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: like that. But I mean linder Bomb, you know, obviously 630 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: he went to Ye, Well that's a big school, and 631 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: Zion at Boston College in the a SEC. You know, 632 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: it's not the SEC or even the Big ten, but 633 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean Zion was very well coached at Boston College. 634 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: I think they were. They were one of the best 635 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: offensive lines to watch in the country. I mean, you 636 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: could tell they're all on the same page. Their offensive 637 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: line coach just got hired to coach the Dolphins. But yeah, 638 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be too concerned with those other two. But yeah, 639 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: a guy like Raymond Central Michigan's a different story, you know, 640 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: So I understand that. So when you talked about linder Bomb, 641 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: I heard the red flags and I didn't necessarily hear 642 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: why I should be excited if the Bengals wind up 643 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: getting him at thirty one? What are the strengths? Why 644 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: are people high on Tyler linder Bomb despite the fact 645 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: that his arms are a little more than thirty one inches, 646 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: So pretty much directly from my report, you know, very 647 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: good initial quickness, contact balance, and body control. Um, he 648 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: stays attached to blocks consistently. He doesn't fall off blocks 649 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: really ever. I think his grip strength is amazing that 650 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: kind of bleeds into that once he gets latched into defenders, 651 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: he's not coming off really ever. And he's very explosive 652 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: through the drive portion of blocks, so he can create 653 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: displacement in the run game. And then how he works 654 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: combo blocks is it's masterful. He's very good at work 655 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: in combination blocks in terms of knowing how to overtake blocks, 656 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: how to climb, when to climb, the timing aspect of it, 657 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: how to fit on blocks. He's very adept at that. 658 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: So his zone run games, you know, I'm sure they're 659 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: gonna love him. And he applies consistent pressure on defenders 660 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: through the whistle. He has really good leg drive. He's powerful, 661 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, he gets a lot of knockdowns 662 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: in college. I'm not sure he'll get as many as 663 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: in the pros, but he's gonna definitely, i think, create 664 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: displacement in the pros. And you know, in past protection, 665 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: I think when he's uncovered, he looks for work very well. 666 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: He can find work at a high level, and he 667 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: provides a lot of thump and power on adjacent rushers 668 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: to kind of collapse guys. You know, he'll find their 669 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: rib cage and their hip and he'll really knock him 670 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: over with violence. So he's a very physical guy as well. 671 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think he's gonna bring a lot 672 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 1: just to a run game. And the other thing is 673 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: he's devastating at the second level. So if he gets 674 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: attached to a linebacker or a dB, which he has 675 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: the athleticism to do, I mean, he's gonna probably get 676 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: a pancake you know, a lot of the time. So 677 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: he's he's just uh, I think he's a you know, 678 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: an impact run blocker. So that's what you're getting. You're 679 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: getting somebody like Bradberry can do certain stuff in the pros, 680 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: like he's really good on screens, he can reach shades sometimes, 681 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: but he just gets He's just not strong and powerful 682 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: enough really, and I think that's where Linderbaum separates himself 683 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: from a guy like that, and he could, you know, 684 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: just be better than Bradberry, I think. But you know, 685 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: it's it's the size and the anchoring ability and pass 686 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: protection that people have questions about. But he's not a 687 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: bad pass protector in terms of technique, you know, using 688 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: his hands and stuff like that. He can get better. 689 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: And I think if he does get better, it can 690 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: kind of mitigate some of his concerns. So he has 691 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: room to improve too. I mean it's not like he's 692 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: it's not like he's maxed out. You know, he's not 693 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: coming in the NFL like this is what you're getting, 694 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: you know, period, I feel like he has room to 695 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: grow with his technique as a pass protector to where 696 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: he can get better. You know what I mean. I 697 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: don't think for Brandon Thornton. I'll let you go. The 698 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 1: Bengals drafted three offensive linemen last year. Jackson Carmen obviously 699 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: was the highest drafted in the second round, and Duke Tobin. 700 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: The direct your Player Personnel made the point at the 701 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: scouting combine that it takes a while, particularly nowadays, for 702 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: many offensive linemen to adapt to the differences from college 703 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: football to the NFL. How long do you give a guy? 704 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I know it varies from person to person, 705 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: but do you typically know within a couple of years 706 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: whether a guy's going to be any good or not? 707 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: I think you can, you can know. I really think 708 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: you have to look at what's around a guy a 709 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: lot of the time. You know, like who's playing next to, 710 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: who's his coach, what's his scheme? Does it fit him 711 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,439 Speaker 1: a perfect examples Lake and Tomlinson in Detroit. Everyone said 712 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: he was a bust, you know, first round pick went 713 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: to Detroit, struggled. I've heard some crazy stuff about the 714 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: offensive line coach there at the time, and what the 715 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: just crazy dynamics there in terms of locker room stuff 716 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: that went on. I still saw flashes of brilliance from 717 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: Lake and Tomlinson in Detroit. I wrote an article about 718 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: it back in the day. He had an incredible against 719 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: Mike Daniels when Mike Daniels was at his peak in 720 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: Green Bay. So he had flashes, but he was very 721 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: up and down. Goes to San Francisco after three or 722 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: four years in Detroit, and then all of a sudden, 723 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: he looks like a totally different player. He's in the 724 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: perfect scheme, he's playing for a great coach, he's playing 725 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: next to Joe Staley. You know, all this stuff happens 726 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: to him, and then you got an above average guy 727 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: for a few years, solid guy. So I like to 728 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: think at least two or three years typically. I mean, 729 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: obviously a lot of guys don't get that. It depends 730 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: on what you where you get drafted as well. Obviously 731 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 1: your leash is longer the higher you get drafted. But 732 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: ideally you want to give a guy two or three years, 733 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: and you want to assess everything around him as well. 734 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: And really, when you drill into the tape and you 735 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: search for, you know, flashes, and then you ask yourself 736 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: why those aren't more consistent. Then you start to look 737 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: at the outside picture around him, and then sometimes it 738 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 1: makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's just like, yeah, 739 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: this is what he is. You know, he has a 740 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: pretty good coach, he has pretty good players around him, 741 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: and he's just very inconsistent. But then sometimes you know, 742 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: you got a guy like I mean, Jackson Carman is 743 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: an interesting one to kind of tie to him because 744 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: he's so young. You know, he's twenty one or whatever. 745 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: Twenty two came in very young, left or it probably 746 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: left Clemson probably a year or two early, switching side, 747 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: switching positions, playing next to you know, a guy like 748 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: Isaiah Prince who's providing zero stability for him at all. 749 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: And then you know, Hopkins helps, you know, to some degree, 750 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: but he wasn't in a great position either last year, 751 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of I feel like you've got 752 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: to be patient with a guy like this. You know, 753 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: you have to give him at least another year to 754 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: me all things considered. So yeah, I mean it's really 755 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: a case by case basis, but you know, I hopefully 756 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: I can I answered some of that, you know, by 757 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: finding some examples there. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it's interesting, 758 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: it's fun discussion. Our guest has been Brandon Thorne. He 759 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: is the author of the Trench Warfare Newsletter. It's great. 760 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: It's the best content out there about offensive line play 761 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: and defensive line play as well. I'm really enjoying it. 762 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm a recent subscriber, and I look forward to learning 763 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: more throughout the course of the year. Thank you so 764 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: much for your time, and hopefully we'll do this again 765 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 1: down the road. Absolutely, anytime you're interested in Brandon's newsletter 766 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: and video breakdowns, just do a search for Trench Warfare 767 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: Newsletter and you'll find a link with information on how 768 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: to subscribe. It costs eight dollars for a month or 769 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: eighty five dollars for a year. That's going to do 770 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: it for this episode of The Bengals Booth podcast presented 771 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty 772 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,280 Speaker 1: twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy 773 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the 774 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: App Store and Google Play. If you haven't done so already, 775 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, 776 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: given a rating or share a comment that helps more 777 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for 778 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: listening to the Bengals Boot Podcast.