WEBVTT - Olympe de Gouges

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. We have

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<v Speaker 1>gotten a lot of requests over the years for an

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<v Speaker 1>episode on o Lampe de Gouge, who's known, at least

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<v Speaker 1>outside of France, primarily for a nine pamphlet titled Declaration

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<v Speaker 1>of the Rights of Women and the Citizen, and this

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<v Speaker 1>was published as a direct response to the seventeen eighty

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<v Speaker 1>nine Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen,

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<v Speaker 1>with the Declaration of rights of the rights of Man

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<v Speaker 1>using the French words citoyen and Degouge's response using the

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<v Speaker 1>more feminine form of that word citoyenne. They look very

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<v Speaker 1>different uh in writing, but they're pronounced a little similarly.

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<v Speaker 1>Olympe de gouge is writing and political activity though, went

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<v Speaker 1>way way beyond that one pamphlet that she's famous for now.

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<v Speaker 1>And also her execution, which happened just before the start

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<v Speaker 1>of the Reign of Terror, was not because of the

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<v Speaker 1>calls for equal rights for women that she's become so

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<v Speaker 1>associated with. It's a whole other thing. Um, So that's

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<v Speaker 1>who we're going to talk about today and Olympe de Gouge.

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<v Speaker 1>Her upbringing and early life are really hazy and they

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<v Speaker 1>are full of contradictions, some of which are thanks to

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<v Speaker 1>her own writing. We do know that she was born

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Goose on May seven in Montebon, which is north

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<v Speaker 1>of Toulouse in southern France. Her mother was Anne Olympemoisie,

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<v Speaker 1>a maid servant whose father was a draper, and at

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<v Speaker 1>least legally, Marie's father was a butcher named Pierre Goose,

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<v Speaker 1>but there were rumors that her father was actually Jean

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<v Speaker 1>Jacques le Franc who would later become Marquis da Pampaigne.

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<v Speaker 1>And the Le Francx and the Moi days had been

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<v Speaker 1>connected for generations, and although Jean Jacques was only five

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<v Speaker 1>years her senior, he was an Olymps godfather. The Tarn River,

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<v Speaker 1>which is prone to really dangerous and dramatic flooding, runs

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<v Speaker 1>through the region where the Goose family lived, and when

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<v Speaker 1>the young Marie Goose was only two, Pierre Goose died

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<v Speaker 1>as a result of one of these floods. Aside from

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that it was connected to the flooding, we

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<v Speaker 1>don't really know the details of the cause of death.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, an obvious one would be that he drowned,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, flooding also causes disease and famines and

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<v Speaker 1>other issues, so we don't really know. At some point

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<v Speaker 1>after that, Marie's mother got married again, this time to

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<v Speaker 1>a police officer, and beyond that we don't know much

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<v Speaker 1>else about Marie Goose's early life. She probably got at

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<v Speaker 1>least some education at an Ursuline convent. She could write

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<v Speaker 1>well enough to sign her own marriage documents, and the

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<v Speaker 1>Ursuline convent would have been the most likely placed for

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<v Speaker 1>a girl of her station to have become literate. That

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<v Speaker 1>marriage was to Louis Aubrey, who was a caterer who

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<v Speaker 1>had been one of the late Pierre Goose's associates, and

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<v Speaker 1>this happened when Marie was only seventeen. Marie and Louise

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<v Speaker 1>had a son, also named Pierre, about two years later,

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<v Speaker 1>and then a few months after that Louis died. This

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<v Speaker 1>was also as a result of a Tarn River flood,

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<v Speaker 1>and once again we don't really know much clarity on

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<v Speaker 1>the details beyond it being related to the flooding. Marie's

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<v Speaker 1>marriage to Louise had been against her will, and after

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<v Speaker 1>his death, she refused to marry again, and she also

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<v Speaker 1>refused to conform to what was expected of a widowed mother. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>she moved to Paris in seventeen sixty seven. It is

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<v Speaker 1>unclear whether she took her son with her or whether

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<v Speaker 1>she left him in someone else's care while he was young,

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<v Speaker 1>and she also changed her name to Olympe de Gouge,

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<v Speaker 1>drawing from parts of Anna lymp and Pierre Goose's name aims,

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<v Speaker 1>and also adding the d e, which made it sound

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<v Speaker 1>a little more aristocratic. She may have also meant her

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<v Speaker 1>new name as sort of a racy joke, because at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, googe was a slang term for body women. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I found totally opposite accounts of whether she took her

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<v Speaker 1>son with her or left him with someone else. Regardless, though,

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<v Speaker 1>in Paris, Olampta Gouge was supported by Jacques Pietre de Rosier,

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<v Speaker 1>who was a wealthy man who owned a military transport company,

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<v Speaker 1>and she spent her first years in Paris really immersed

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<v Speaker 1>in self study, attending and possibly even hosting literary salons,

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<v Speaker 1>and then pouring over the work of Enlightenment thinkers, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>Jean Jacques Rousteau. During these years she also would have

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<v Speaker 1>expanded her knowledge of French as a language. Her first

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<v Speaker 1>language was actually a regional dialect called as sit Down.

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<v Speaker 1>Because French was her second language and her formal education

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<v Speaker 1>was pretty minimal, she didn't most of her writing in

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<v Speaker 1>French through a secretary. In seventeen eighty four, Jean Jacques

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<v Speaker 1>le franc Marquis da Pompillon died and de Gouge started

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<v Speaker 1>working on an epistolary novel that would be published in Sight,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was called Madame de Valmont's Memoirs on the

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<v Speaker 1>ingratitude and cruelty of the Floucore Family toward her own,

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<v Speaker 1>which rendered such services to the Serge Floure. So this

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<v Speaker 1>book is one of the reasons why some of the

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<v Speaker 1>biographical accounts of Olampe de Gouge's early life are really contradictory.

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<v Speaker 1>She framed this book as a real correspondence with only

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<v Speaker 1>the names changed to protect their reputations of the people involved. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>though most sources described this book as semi autobiographical, but

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes they also used the letters contained in it to

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<v Speaker 1>try to kind of glean some details about Degouge's early life.

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<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, the first de Gouge biography available

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<v Speaker 1>in English is Women's Rights in the French Revolution, a

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<v Speaker 1>biography of Olampe de Gouge. That's by Sophie Mosse and

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<v Speaker 1>it was translated from French. This biography was first published

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and seven, and the author cites these memoirs,

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<v Speaker 1>which again is on a pistolary novel. She's left them

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<v Speaker 1>repeatedly as fact, like the footnotes are literally this book

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<v Speaker 1>and this novel was inspired in part by laz Danchuse,

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<v Speaker 1>which had been published in sevent two and was also

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<v Speaker 1>written in the form of letters exchanged among its characters.

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<v Speaker 1>In the Memoir of Madame de Valemond, the main characters

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<v Speaker 1>are Madame de Vellemont and her half brother son of

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<v Speaker 1>the Marquis de Flacour. In addition to their correspondence, the

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<v Speaker 1>book also includes Madame de Vellemont's correspondence with other family members.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of this book's framework is an unnamed narrator or

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<v Speaker 1>editor who has brought these letters together to publish and

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<v Speaker 1>also takes a part in some of the correspondence. And

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<v Speaker 1>this unnamed editor maintains that all the facts she's putting

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<v Speaker 1>forth in the letters are quote authentic truths and then

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<v Speaker 1>what starts out as a comic story told through letters

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<v Speaker 1>gradually shifts to document Madame de Velmont's attempts to prove

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<v Speaker 1>that she is really the marquise daughter and to get

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<v Speaker 1>his recognition and support. The letters come together to paint

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<v Speaker 1>the Flacour family is having been cruel and indifferent to

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<v Speaker 1>Madame Develoment's mother, with the Marquis trying to distance himself

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<v Speaker 1>from her while never flat out denying that he is

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<v Speaker 1>the father of her child. The unnamed editor and Madame

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<v Speaker 1>de Vellemont are both generally interpreted as stand ins for

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<v Speaker 1>de Gouge herself, with the Marquis de Flac representing the

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<v Speaker 1>Marquis de Pompignan. Biographer Sophie Musse contends that the Marquis

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<v Speaker 1>de Pompailler was unquestionably a Lampta Googa's biological father, and

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody in the community you this. Even that the

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<v Speaker 1>la franc family had taken pains to send Jean Jacques

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<v Speaker 1>away from the area to separate him from an olamp

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<v Speaker 1>when they were young. This just isn't something that it's

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<v Speaker 1>possible to conclusively know at this point, though for a

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<v Speaker 1>Lampta Gouge's own part She didn't overtly claim that the

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<v Speaker 1>Marquis da Pampaigne was her father, but she did sort

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<v Speaker 1>of seemed to stoke the idea that he could be.

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<v Speaker 1>Since he had been dead for four years by the

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<v Speaker 1>time The Memoirs of Madame Valmont was published, we really

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<v Speaker 1>do not have his thoughts on this matter at all,

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<v Speaker 1>unless the letters really are his real letters, as the

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<v Speaker 1>book contends, which seems like a very long walk. But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it could be what, like, we just don't

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<v Speaker 1>We don't really know. And this purported connection to the

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<v Speaker 1>Marquis d Pompagne may have given o Lampe de Gouge

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<v Speaker 1>access to theatrical and literary circles that she might not

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<v Speaker 1>have had otherwise. Apart from his attis, the Marquis was

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<v Speaker 1>a poet, playwright, and literary critic whose biggest claim to

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<v Speaker 1>fame at this point is having become the arch enemy

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<v Speaker 1>of the way more famous French writer Voltaire. So the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that she was his unacknowledged daughter may have opened

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<v Speaker 1>some doors for her, and it definitely seems to have

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<v Speaker 1>led to some of her later advocacy on social issues

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<v Speaker 1>related to children born out of wedlock and their mothers.

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<v Speaker 1>O lamp A. Gouge wrote one other novel during her lifetime,

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<v Speaker 1>but she was a lot more prolific when it came

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<v Speaker 1>to writing plays, and we will get some more of

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<v Speaker 1>that after a sponsor break. We know that Olampta Gouge

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<v Speaker 1>had at least one wealthy benefactor who supported her life

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<v Speaker 1>in Paris. That was Jacques phri de Rosier, who he

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier. It's likely that she had other benefactors as well.

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<v Speaker 1>She may have had romantic relationships with some of them,

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<v Speaker 1>but like so many any other details about her life,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all pretty vague. De Gouge was also friends with

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<v Speaker 1>Madame de Montesson, wife of Louis Philippe the First, that's

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<v Speaker 1>the Duke of and at one point she was rumored

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<v Speaker 1>to be having an affair with the Duke's son, who

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<v Speaker 1>was later known as Philippe Egalite, and this may have

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<v Speaker 1>been a rumor spread to try to tarnish Degouge's reputation,

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<v Speaker 1>but her son Pierre did wind up getting an appointment

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<v Speaker 1>as an engineer thanks to the Orleans family. As a

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<v Speaker 1>lamp de Gouge was making connections to some of the

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<v Speaker 1>really wealthy and powerful families of France. She was also

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<v Speaker 1>writing plays that focused in one way or another on

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<v Speaker 1>injustice and social issues. They tackled themes like divorce and

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<v Speaker 1>women's rights during and after a divorce, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>sexual double standards and the existence of debtors prisons, the

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<v Speaker 1>rights of children born out of wedlock, and girls being

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<v Speaker 1>forced to marry or sent a convince against their will. Overall,

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<v Speaker 1>her female characters in these plays had and used their agency,

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<v Speaker 1>and they supported and protected one another rather than being

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<v Speaker 1>rivals or adversaries. And when women in Degouga's plays were victimized,

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<v Speaker 1>it was not something that was played for its own

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<v Speaker 1>sake or for shock value. It was connected back to

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<v Speaker 1>a greater theme of social injustice. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>though Degouga's plays didn't necessarily dispel negative stereotypes of women,

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<v Speaker 1>such as the idea that women were weak or deceitful. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>she framed those traits as the inevitable consequences of women's

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<v Speaker 1>place in French society. While there were individual women who

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<v Speaker 1>held high positions within the monarchy or the aristocracy, women

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<v Speaker 1>as a group had very little overt political power. Educational

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<v Speaker 1>opportunities for girls were really limited, and for most women

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<v Speaker 1>they're only options for their adult lives were to get

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<v Speaker 1>married or to enter a convent, and either way they

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<v Speaker 1>had virtually no property rights their control over their own

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<v Speaker 1>lives and bodies. So, for example, the Goose saw women

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<v Speaker 1>as deceitful because they had to be to survive in

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<v Speaker 1>this environment, and as weak because they were given no

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<v Speaker 1>opportunities to build their own strength. Oh Lamb de Gouge

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<v Speaker 1>established a private amateur theater in Paris, but when it

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<v Speaker 1>came to public theater, there was really just one option,

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<v Speaker 1>the French National Theater, known as the comedyfan Says, which

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<v Speaker 1>essentially had a monopoly on professional theater. The Comedy Says

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<v Speaker 1>accepted new plays and then performed them in the order

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<v Speaker 1>that they were received, so if there was a backlog,

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<v Speaker 1>which there usually was, there could be a really long

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<v Speaker 1>delay between a place acceptance and its actual performance. Accepted

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<v Speaker 1>plays were not published until they had been performed, or

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<v Speaker 1>until three years after they had been accepted, whichever might

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<v Speaker 1>come first. That gives you an indication of how big

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<v Speaker 1>the backlog was. Um Playwrights whose plays were accepted were

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<v Speaker 1>given entry privileges at the theater, but when it came

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<v Speaker 1>to the performance of the play itself, that was completely

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<v Speaker 1>out of their control. So, especially for new playwrights who

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<v Speaker 1>were first trying to make a name for themselves, their

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<v Speaker 1>careers really rested on the whims and political shifts of

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<v Speaker 1>the comedy. Fan says this was true for olmpt A Gouge.

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<v Speaker 1>In Sight four, she wrote Zamore and Mirza, or the

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Shipwreck sometimes that's translated as the Fortunate Shipwreck. This

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<v Speaker 1>was a melodrama that takes place in the East Indies,

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<v Speaker 1>involving the shipwrecked aristocratic San Fremont family as well as

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<v Speaker 1>an enslaved Asian couple. The shipwreck is described as happy

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<v Speaker 1>because it leads to the enslaved couple being freed. De

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<v Speaker 1>Googe submitted this play to the Comedy Francais anonymously when

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<v Speaker 1>it was accepted in seventeen five. As time passed after

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<v Speaker 1>her play was accepted, de Googe started writing to the

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<v Speaker 1>theater and its actors about when it would be performed.

0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>She became so insistent that in September, the troop leader

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 1>wrote back to her and told her that they were

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 1>pulling that play from the repertoire and striking her name

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 1>from the list of people who had entry privileges at

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the theater. The theater also petitioned to have her arrested.

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>That might sound a little extreme, this was not really

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 1>a unique situation at all. It was common for playwrights

0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.840
<v Speaker 1>to become really frustrated with the Comedy Francais to the

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>point of being combative with their correspondence. Was also pretty

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 1>common for the company to then reverse their acceptance of

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the play. But what was really unusual was for a

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 1>playwright who was treated this way to be a woman.

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Between seventeen sixty one and seventeen eighty nine, the Comedy

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Front Says accepted only nine plays written by women. Put

0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 1>that in context, the Royal regulations required the company to

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 1>produce between twenty five and forty new plays a year.

0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 1>I was not doing that was really performing were like

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>ten or twelve, which honestly still sounds like large number

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>of plays. Uh, it was accepting more work that it

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 1>was performing though, so plays by women just made up

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 1>a really tiny portion of the theater's repertoire. I feel

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 1>like this is the story of so many companies who

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 1>set really big goals at the beginning of every year. Yeah,

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.200
<v Speaker 1>there's no way you're kind of meet them. Aside from

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge. Only two of those women corresponded with the

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 1>company about their work. That was the del Arms sisters,

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>who had written a one act comedy together. The Comedy

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>from says performed that comedy only once, and the del

0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Arms sisters felt that it had been dropped in favor

0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>of work by better known playwrights. They revised the play

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.360
<v Speaker 1>and resubmitted it, and the company rejected that revision six

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.800
<v Speaker 1>months later. So while the company had taken this step

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 1>was penalizing other playwrights who pushed too hard with their correspondence,

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>olymp de Gouge was really thely woman to face such

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>a treatment. That the Deloram sisters had not had their

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 1>revision accepted, but like they had also not been stripped

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>from the roles, there was no warrant out for their arrest.

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Threatened with arrest, so she wrote to the Duc de Richelieu,

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>who was one of the first gentlemen of the King's

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 1>bed chamber, noting that while the Comedy Francais had treated

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 1>other playwrights this way, the theater's conduct was quote extraordinary

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>toward a woman. The Duke got her status with the

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 1>company restored, and although the comedy friend says still did

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 1>not perform that play. Her correspondence on the subject became

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 1>a little more conciliatory after this. Four years passed between

0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>the time when The Happy Shipwreck was accepted and when

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>it was finally performed, and in that time de Gouche

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>had revised it repeatedly, and in August she had printed

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>an unbound version of the play, which was technically allowed

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 1>under the policies of the Comedy fonse Is, but it

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 1>was also considered kind of a rude move on her part. Yeah,

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.639
<v Speaker 1>she had not quite gotten to that three year market.

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.200
<v Speaker 1>She kind of did an end run around the letter

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.200
<v Speaker 1>of the law. By the time the company did perform

0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>the play in seventy nine, it was shorter, the story

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.120
<v Speaker 1>took place in the Caribbean, and the characters of Zamora

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 1>and Mirza had become African rather than Asian. The play

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.639
<v Speaker 1>had been re titled The Slavery of Negroes or The

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.919
<v Speaker 1>Happy Shipwreck. It's often been described as the first explicitly

0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>abolitionist play in French and the first French play told

0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>from the point of view of enslaved people. Even though

0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.200
<v Speaker 1>the comedian Says did finally perform this work, the performances

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.960
<v Speaker 1>themselves did not go smoothly because of its abolitionist focus.

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 1>It drew heavy criticism from wealthy people who had connections

0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 1>to French colonies in the Caribbean that relied on enslaved labor.

0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Abolitionists praised the play, while and owners hired hecklers to

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 1>disrupt the performances. Some of the people paying people to

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.959
<v Speaker 1>disrupt the performances would have been just like people who

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.440
<v Speaker 1>had investments, as well as like people who directly owned

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:16.640
<v Speaker 1>these plantations and the enslaved workers who were there. Um

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge also claimed that there was sabotage on the

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 1>part of the actors. The ones who had been cast

0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.560
<v Speaker 1>in the roles of Africans did refuse to darken their

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.200
<v Speaker 1>skin for the roles. So the idea of white actors

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 1>and black face was still absolutely rooted in racism, but

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.159
<v Speaker 1>it it didn't have quite the same connotations in the

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>late seventeen hundreds as it would develop during and after

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 1>the era of menstrual shows that started to develop in

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:48.040
<v Speaker 1>the early eighteen hundreds. France's movement for the abolition of

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.639
<v Speaker 1>slavery was still in its infancy when a Lampe de

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 1>gouge first wrote Zamor and Mirza. The Society of the

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.879
<v Speaker 1>Friends of Blacks was established in seventeen eighty eight and

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge became a member. Slavery was abolished in France

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.760
<v Speaker 1>in seventeen nine four, although Napoleon restored it in eighteen

0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.040
<v Speaker 1>o two by her Count O Lampti. Gouge wrote more

0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 1>than forty plays, although only twelve of them survive and

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 1>only four of them are actually staged during her lifetime,

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.879
<v Speaker 1>and aside from her novels and plays, she also wrote

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.000
<v Speaker 1>more than sixty political pamphlets during the French Revolution, and

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 1>we will get to that after another quick sponsor break.

0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:38.080
<v Speaker 1>The calf them or the woman question, was a literary

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and philosophical debate that had been going on in France

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.560
<v Speaker 1>and other parts of Europe for hundreds of years prior

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.520
<v Speaker 1>to the French Revolution, starting in the Renaissance. It involved

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.440
<v Speaker 1>questions about the nature of women and about women's rights

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and status within the society, and a lot of these

0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 1>same questions were argued again during the French Revolution, all

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.320
<v Speaker 1>though men were doing a lot of this arguing. Women

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.479
<v Speaker 1>were also politically active during the French Revolution, particularly when

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.760
<v Speaker 1>it came to subjects that were considered part of women's sphere.

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 1>A big one was food and access to food. In ten,

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.160
<v Speaker 1>we did an episode on the Women's March on Versailles,

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.639
<v Speaker 1>which started on March five, s nine, and this was

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.320
<v Speaker 1>a march from Paris to Versailles with the goal of

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>getting the monarchy to address a serious food shortage and

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>returned to Paris. Women, many of whom were anonymous, published

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.919
<v Speaker 1>work on subjects like education and poverty, as well as

0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 1>criticizing divorce and inheritance laws that favored men. The various

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 1>factions that arose during the revolution varied a little bit

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.000
<v Speaker 1>and how welcoming they were of women, I say a

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.440
<v Speaker 1>little bit. It was broader than that. There were some

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.040
<v Speaker 1>factions that were like, nah, we only have men in

0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 1>our leadership, and others who did allow women at least

0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:01.199
<v Speaker 1>some participation. So women also formed their own political clubs

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.440
<v Speaker 1>during the French Revolution. Many of those clubs were still

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.439
<v Speaker 1>focused on the subjects that were considered appropriate for women,

0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.399
<v Speaker 1>like food and education. O lamp de Gouge had some

0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:16.359
<v Speaker 1>overlap with these other often anonymous women. She wrote on

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 1>some of the same subjects, including divorce, inheritance, and education,

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:24.399
<v Speaker 1>particularly education for girls. She called for women to be

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.400
<v Speaker 1>able to publicly name the fathers of their children born

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.679
<v Speaker 1>out of wedlock, and for those children to be legitimized.

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.159
<v Speaker 1>She also advocated an end to the dowry system and

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>the creation of services for widows, mothers, and children living

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 1>in poverty. But unlike many other women writers who were

0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>often anonymous, she also wrote under her own name, and

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>she wrote more broadly on other political issues and on

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.840
<v Speaker 1>women's political and social rights in general. She advocated for

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>professions to be open to anyone, regardless of their sex,

0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.320
<v Speaker 1>their color, or their social status. She believed that celibacy

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>requirements for monks and nuns set the stage for abuse,

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and called for them to have marriage rights. She proposed

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 1>a voluntary tax to try to address wealth inequality and

0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.679
<v Speaker 1>to save the French Republic from bankruptcy. She also advocated

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 1>a luxury tax that would pay for services for the poor.

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 1>She called for an end to the death penalty, and

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.359
<v Speaker 1>she advocated the establishment of a national theater that would

0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 1>focus on publishing and staging the work of women play rights.

0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Some of the reforms that she advocated were ultimately adopted,

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 1>including protections for children who were born out of wedlock,

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.400
<v Speaker 1>and divorce rights for women. These were passed into law

0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>by the National Assembly in seventeen nine two. On August

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:49.199
<v Speaker 1>seventeen eighty nine, the French National Constituent Assembly issued the

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, written

0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 1>by the Marquis de Lafayette and the Abbe Sis along

0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:00.439
<v Speaker 1>with Thomas Jefferson, that includes seventeen articles out lining the

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 1>fundamental rights of male citizens, and in seventeen the National

0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Assembly adopted a new constitution, one that gave the right

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:14.720
<v Speaker 1>to vote only to male taxpaying citizens, h to a

0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.879
<v Speaker 1>lot of people. This was a little at odds with

0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>the French revolutions professed values including liberty and equality. The

0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Gouge's response to all of this was the Declaration of

0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:32.440
<v Speaker 1>the Rights of Woman and the Citizen, sometimes translated as

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>the Declaration of the Rights of Women and the Female

0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:37.679
<v Speaker 1>Citizen thanks to her use of the word sito again.

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>It followed the same basic format as the Declaration of

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 1>the Rights of Man, including a preamble, seventeen articles, and

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.720
<v Speaker 1>an epilogue. It was also dedicated to Marie Antoinette, encouraging

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 1>her to take up the cause of the revolution and

0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.679
<v Speaker 1>to use her position to advance the cause of women's rights.

0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 1>De Gouge published this on September fourteen, seventeen ninety one,

0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:04.680
<v Speaker 1>to coincide with Louis the sixteenth ratification of the New

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.959
<v Speaker 1>Constitution that excluded women from full citizenship rights, and the

0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 1>prologue to this piece began quote, man, are you capable

0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of being fair? A woman is asking at least you

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:20.159
<v Speaker 1>will allow her that right. Tell me what gave you

0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:24.959
<v Speaker 1>the sovereign right to oppress my sex. The seventeen articles

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.000
<v Speaker 1>follow the Declaration of the Rights of Man point by point,

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.879
<v Speaker 1>and in some cases they simply use the word woman

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.440
<v Speaker 1>or women in place of man or men, or they

0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 1>specifically include women in addition to men where they're referenced.

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 1>So Article one of the Declaration of the Rights of Women,

0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 1>for example, is quote woman is born free and remains

0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.880
<v Speaker 1>equal to man in rights. Social distinctions may be founded

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 1>only on the common good. Other articles add additional nuance.

0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:57.360
<v Speaker 1>For example, Article ten in the Declaration of the Rights

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 1>of Man is quote no one shall be disc quieted

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.480
<v Speaker 1>on account of his opinions, including his religious views, provided

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:08.359
<v Speaker 1>their manifestation does not disturb the public order established by law.

0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.240
<v Speaker 1>In the Rights of Women, that is written as quote,

0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:16.840
<v Speaker 1>none must be disquieted for their opinions. However, fundamental woman

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 1>is entitled to mount the scaffold, she must be equally

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 1>entitled to mount the rostrum, so long as her manifestos

0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:26.119
<v Speaker 1>do not disturb the public order. According to the law,

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:31.679
<v Speaker 1>Article eleven is about free expression, and in Degouge's writing,

0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 1>she specifically cites the rights of mothers to name their

0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 1>children's fathers. Quote. The free expression of thoughts and opinions

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 1>is one of the most precious rights of woman, given

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 1>that this liberty ensures the legitimacy of fathers and their children.

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Any female citizens can therefore freely declare I am the

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 1>mother of your child without a barbarous prejudice forcing them

0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.639
<v Speaker 1>to hide the truth, unless in response to the abuse

0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>of this freedom in cases determined by the law. In

0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a PostScript that's longer than the rest of the document,

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge calls for women to wake up and acknowledge

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>their rights. She contends, quote, women have done more harm

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:16.879
<v Speaker 1>than good. Constraint and dissimulation have been their lot. What

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>force stole from them rus returned. They had to resort

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:24.240
<v Speaker 1>to the power of their charms and the most irreproachable

0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 1>man could not resist. She then draws parallels between marriage

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and slavery, ending on the idea that quote marriage is

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.679
<v Speaker 1>the tomb of trust and love. She also prints a

0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 1>template for what she describes as a social contract between

0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:42.359
<v Speaker 1>a man and a woman, a union that, unlike marriage,

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.480
<v Speaker 1>involves a man and a woman coming together in equality

0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 1>and of their own volition. And the PostScript, she also

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>recounts an argument with a coachman who tried to overcharge her,

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.720
<v Speaker 1>and this is something that she includes as an example

0:26:55.840 --> 0:27:00.320
<v Speaker 1>of the everyday injustices and indignities that women face, But

0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.680
<v Speaker 1>it also seems enough like a digression that a lot

0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:06.120
<v Speaker 1>of time it is left out of English translations. Olamp

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:09.640
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge had always faced criticism and derision for her

0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:14.120
<v Speaker 1>writing and her political activism. There were allegations of affairs

0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:16.679
<v Speaker 1>that were meant to discredit her, along with claims that

0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.120
<v Speaker 1>she was illiterate or a fraud. But when it came

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:22.879
<v Speaker 1>to the Declaration of the Rights of women, what really

0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:27.680
<v Speaker 1>drew suspicion was her dedication to Marie Antoinette, which reinforced

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:32.440
<v Speaker 1>suspicions that she was in fact a monarchist and unlike

0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:35.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the other suspicions that swirled around her,

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.280
<v Speaker 1>this one was actually pretty accurate. In spite of her

0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.960
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary writings and her general support of the French Revolution,

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Olampa Gouge thought a constitutional monarchy was the system of

0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:50.720
<v Speaker 1>government that was most suited to the national character of France.

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 1>But she also thought that the monarch should be a

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:57.280
<v Speaker 1>symbolic emblem for France as a nation and should work

0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:00.760
<v Speaker 1>for the good of its most vulnerable people, not a

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>symbol of power and a tool to carry out the

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:07.240
<v Speaker 1>wishes of the aristocracy. When King Louis the sixteenth was

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:10.800
<v Speaker 1>tried for treason in seventeen two, a lamp de Gouge

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:15.280
<v Speaker 1>offered to defend him. Her argument was that he unquestionably

0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.040
<v Speaker 1>had done wrong, but that he had done wrong when

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 1>he was king. By her arguments, since France had abolished

0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 1>the monarchy and become a republic in September of sevento

0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:29.359
<v Speaker 1>the former king was no longer guilty in the eyes

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of the republic. The republic could not prosecute someone who

0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 1>was no longer the monarch for something the monarch had done.

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Her offer to defend the king, by the way was

0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 1>not accepted and he was, of course executed on January one,

0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 1>sevente Yeah, we're not suggesting that defense would have worked,

0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:51.800
<v Speaker 1>but it's kind of a weird pretzel logic. It's a

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:55.480
<v Speaker 1>little it's like, no, he stopped being the person that

0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:59.840
<v Speaker 1>you hate when he stopped being king, Like, that's not

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:05.760
<v Speaker 1>quite right. So by the time we the sixteenth was executed,

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:10.920
<v Speaker 1>tensions had been growing between revolutionaries and counter revolutionaries, and

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 1>also among different factions within the revolution for years. The

0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>French Revolutionary Wars had also started in seventeen ninety two,

0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:23.080
<v Speaker 1>and that had put even more strain on this young republic.

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>The revolution had become increasingly radical and increasingly intolerant of

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 1>suspected monarchists and counter revolutionaries. Olampe de Gouge had been

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:37.400
<v Speaker 1>mostly aligned with the revolutionary faction known as the Girondins.

0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Twenty nine of them had been expelled from the National

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Convention and arrested, and then would be executed a few

0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:47.320
<v Speaker 1>months later. In the face of all of this tension,

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>in July of seventeen ninety three, de Gouche proposed that

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>each department of France be allowed to govern itself rather

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 1>than the one unified nation of France. That was required

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 1>by law, and the This idea seems to be what

0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:06.680
<v Speaker 1>finally led to her arrest on July, not long after

0:30:06.680 --> 0:30:10.200
<v Speaker 1>the mass arrest of the Girondame. She seems to have

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 1>genuinely believed that if she cooperated that her writings would

0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 1>demonstrate that she was loyal to France and the Revolution,

0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 1>and that she would be cleared of all suspicion. She

0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 1>even took investigators to her office and storage space when

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't find any incriminating writing in her home. The

0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:32.000
<v Speaker 1>materials that they wound up confiscating included an unfinished five

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:37.800
<v Speaker 1>act play called France Saved or the Tyrant Dethroned. As

0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 1>its title suggests, the monarch is dethroned in this play,

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:45.200
<v Speaker 1>but it's sympathetic portrayal of Marie Antoinette was used as

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:49.040
<v Speaker 1>evidence in Marie de Goug's trial. So was a pamphlet

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 1>she had written called Three Governments Battled to the Death,

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 1>which called for the Nation of France to make an

0:30:54.440 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 1>ultimate choice among monarchy, federalism, or republicanism. She had also

0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.920
<v Speaker 1>have been highly critical of Maximilian Robespierre and of the

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 1>increasing violence associated with the Revolution and the War on

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 1>July three, De Gouge was charged with quote, having composed

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>a work contrary to the expressed desire of the entire nation,

0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 1>and directed against whoever might propose a form of government

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>other than that of a republic one and indivisible. She

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 1>was incarcerated, and she continued writing smuggling pamphlets detailing the

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:34.720
<v Speaker 1>conditions they're out of her prison. At trial, the judge

0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 1>denied de Gouge legal representation, so she had to represent herself,

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 1>and different accounts interpret her behavior at court vary differently.

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.320
<v Speaker 1>She claimed to be thirty eight, but she was really

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:52.760
<v Speaker 1>forty five. She's also described as sighing, smirking, or rolling

0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:56.560
<v Speaker 1>her eyes as the charges were read, either depending on

0:31:56.560 --> 0:32:00.240
<v Speaker 1>who you're reading, clearly not taking the preceding serious slee

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 1>or trying to kind of performatively embody the idea of innocence,

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 1>almost like a character from one of her plays. She

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:11.719
<v Speaker 1>was ultimately found in violation of a law that banned

0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.960
<v Speaker 1>the composition or printing of works that advocated the re

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 1>establishment of royalty or the dissolution of the republic, which

0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:23.360
<v Speaker 1>was punishable by death. She tried to avoid execution by

0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.120
<v Speaker 1>claiming to be pregnant but a doctor examined her and

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 1>said that she was not. As is the case with

0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>any historical examination of this kind that we talked about

0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 1>on the show, we really don't know what was done,

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.280
<v Speaker 1>what this doctor did as a test, or whether it

0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:41.880
<v Speaker 1>would have been able to even detect a pregnancy. Yeah,

0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean it eventually it becomes relatively obvious, but in

0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 1>the early stages, who knows, In the early stages in

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the seventeen nineties, yes, Anyway, A Lampe de Gouge was

0:32:55.640 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 1>executed in Paris on November three see and last words

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 1>were children of the homeland, you will avenge my death.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:08.200
<v Speaker 1>The word homeland, as she said it in French, is

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 1>la patry, and that's also translated as both motherland and

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 1>fatherland depending on who you're looking at, because the petree

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 1>part comes from the word for father, but alat is

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:24.840
<v Speaker 1>also a feminine article, so it kind of mishes both

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:28.600
<v Speaker 1>of that. Oh. Lampt Deguge's son Pierre denounced her during

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>all of this, and while she did write several letters

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 1>to him during her imprisonment and her trial, those were

0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 1>all confiscated. She was buried at Madeline Cemetery in Paris,

0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:42.160
<v Speaker 1>which was later closed and cleared, with the skeletal remains

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 1>being moved to the Paris Catacombs, although in unearthed. In July,

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 1>we talked about the discovery of skeletal remains in the

0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Chapelle Expatoire, which is a memorial chapel that was built

0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:59.600
<v Speaker 1>on the site of the former cemetery. So it's possible

0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 1>that the remains of O lamp de Gouge are in

0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the Paris Catacombs. Also possible that they could be in

0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 1>these relatively newly unearthed skeletal remains in this chapel. De

0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Gouche continued to be criticized and vilified after her death

0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:18.520
<v Speaker 1>in ways that questioned her politics, her character, and her womanhood.

0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:23.840
<v Speaker 1>In seventeen ninety three, French politician Pierre Gaspal Chomet wrote, quote,

0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:27.840
<v Speaker 1>never forget that Virago, the woman man, the impudent olymp

0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:30.880
<v Speaker 1>de Gouge, who abandoned the cares of her household to

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 1>get involved in politics and commit crimes. She died on

0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 1>the guillotine for having forgotten the virtues that suit her sex.

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:41.799
<v Speaker 1>It really took decades, I mean even into like the

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen nineties before people started really viewing O lamp de

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Gouge as a forerunner of the feminist movement and to

0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 1>really seriously study her work. There were calls to have

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 1>her commemorated at the Pantheon in Paris in nine and

0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:01.000
<v Speaker 1>then again in the First woman to be interred at

0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:06.760
<v Speaker 1>the Pantheon was Sophie Bertelo, whose husband, chemiston politician Marcela Bertel,

0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>had died within hours of her passing. The first woman

0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 1>to be interred at the Pantheon based on her own

0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:18.800
<v Speaker 1>accomplishments was Murray Currey, when that didn't happen until Although

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:22.840
<v Speaker 1>a Lampa Googe has not been pantheonized, a bust of

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:27.080
<v Speaker 1>her was installed at the National Assembly in that as

0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:30.279
<v Speaker 1>a Lampta Gouge. As I said just a second ago,

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:32.640
<v Speaker 1>there was not a lot of serious look at her

0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:36.359
<v Speaker 1>work in her life until roughly the nineties. Really, and

0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I would like to say I still find the available

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 1>research lacking. There was just not as much of it

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:47.440
<v Speaker 1>as I would have liked, and not as robust as

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:49.440
<v Speaker 1>I would have liked it to be. Do you have

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:52.920
<v Speaker 1>robust listener mail? Yeah? I have two listener mails that

0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 1>are both on the same subject um, and so I

0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 1>wanted to touch on both of them. This first one

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:02.280
<v Speaker 1>is from Nicole uh and Nicole sonth Is On January tenth,

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Nicole said, Hello, I just listened to the Lost Cause episode.

0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:09.600
<v Speaker 1>You're warning at the beginning about when you recorded the

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.400
<v Speaker 1>episode and who would know what the world would be

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 1>like could not have been more apprecient, because I of

0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.879
<v Speaker 1>course listened to it in the aftermath of the attempted coup.

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Your message could not have been more important or needed

0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.839
<v Speaker 1>this week, and I am so grateful for your podcast.

0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 1>You laid out history and a cultural cornerstone in such

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 1>a clear but also kind way. I have many friends

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:33.080
<v Speaker 1>who work at the Capitol and we're evacuated or barricaded.

0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I can't help thinking that if more people learned history

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:37.600
<v Speaker 1>and the way you taught it, then maybe there wouldn't

0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:41.120
<v Speaker 1>have been a Confederate flag marched through the Capitol. I

0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:43.239
<v Speaker 1>work in politics and have been in Atlanta for the

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Senate race since July. Moving to a new city during

0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:48.680
<v Speaker 1>a pandemic when you work eight hour weeks, it's very difficult.

0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:50.920
<v Speaker 1>I cannot be more grateful to have had both of

0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 1>your company as I walked the belt line alone. It

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:56.480
<v Speaker 1>was also good to know even that there are cool

0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 1>people like you that live or have lived in Atlanta.

0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for all do Nicole Uh. Nicole has a

0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:05.319
<v Speaker 1>ps about growing up in Seattle and being taught that

0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>States rights caused the Civil War in middle school, and

0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:12.319
<v Speaker 1>then I have another email from Julia. Julia starts off

0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:15.560
<v Speaker 1>saying long time listener, first time writer up, and then

0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 1>sort of talks about having listened to the whole archive

0:37:19.280 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 1>and then winding up with a playlist that's forty nine

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:26.080
<v Speaker 1>hours and thirty five minutes long of un listened to podcasts.

0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Uh and goes on to say, that's the long way

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 1>to say I'm behind in my podcast listening, which is

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:34.960
<v Speaker 1>how I listened to the Lost Cause episode last week.

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:38.279
<v Speaker 1>You prefaced the episode with an explanation that you had

0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:41.600
<v Speaker 1>no idea how it might land giving current events when

0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the episode was released. While it was released a month ago,

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:48.600
<v Speaker 1>it had particular points last week. As I listened, I

0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 1>kept picturing the images from the Capitol last week. Thank

0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 1>you for the reminder of how we got to this point.

0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:57.000
<v Speaker 1>I know that the podcast tries not to take a

0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.160
<v Speaker 1>political stance, but this episode helped me recenter on some

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:02.200
<v Speaker 1>of the lessons that need to be learned from the

0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 1>events last week. The stories we tell ourselves about our country,

0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:08.920
<v Speaker 1>our democracy, and our history have a real impact. It

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.360
<v Speaker 1>can be helpful both to look at the history to

0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 1>show us how current events came to pass. It's also

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 1>helpful to think about current events in the frame of

0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:21.120
<v Speaker 1>how it will become history. Julia goes on a little

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 1>bit from there and talks about the past year being

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.680
<v Speaker 1>history making and appreciating knowing that the two of us

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:31.000
<v Speaker 1>are in Julia's podcast feed, so um. Julia also sent

0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 1>dog pictures. Thank you, Julia. I'm kind of abridging the

0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:37.000
<v Speaker 1>email just a little bit just because I'm reading two

0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:39.879
<v Speaker 1>of them. Thank you both Julia and Nicole. They were

0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:42.759
<v Speaker 1>similar enough in their themes that I wanted to read

0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:45.200
<v Speaker 1>both emails and also note that, man, we are in

0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:49.479
<v Speaker 1>the same situation now of like we don't know what's

0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:52.520
<v Speaker 1>going to happen between when we record this episode on

0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:57.359
<v Speaker 1>the twelfth of January and when it comes out, Like

0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.760
<v Speaker 1>we had just come out of the uh the studio

0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 1>after recording our unearthed episodes, and I had decided what

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I was going to do next, and I started working

0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.440
<v Speaker 1>on a Lampe de gouge. In less than twenty four

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 1>hours later, I was glued to the news like, Okay,

0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 1>this is bizarre. It feels like this episode about you know,

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:18.719
<v Speaker 1>a woman who was an abolitionist and a campaigner for

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 1>women's rights, it feels irrelevant somehow because of all this

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:25.239
<v Speaker 1>other stuff that's going on. It has been a very

0:39:26.680 --> 0:39:30.080
<v Speaker 1>confounding and surreal time to be working on this podcast,

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:33.360
<v Speaker 1>as we have talked about at other points before in

0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the last year or so. Yeah, yeah, it makes us,

0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, re look at everything we talked about and like,

0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:44.200
<v Speaker 1>should we publish this now or should we wait? Is

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:46.960
<v Speaker 1>related to what's going on. But it's unpleasant and we

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:48.640
<v Speaker 1>all had a lot of have been through a lot

0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 1>of unpleasant Maybe we move it. I don't know, maybe

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:56.560
<v Speaker 1>it'll be more unpleasant later. We never know what's gonna happen,

0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.840
<v Speaker 1>especially since we try to always keep at least a

0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:05.719
<v Speaker 1>week of episodes already done, which really just gives us

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.719
<v Speaker 1>coverage like if somebody is ill or the power is

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.640
<v Speaker 1>out or whatever like that then means that this time

0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:15.799
<v Speaker 1>passes between when we record and when the episode comes out,

0:40:15.840 --> 0:40:18.960
<v Speaker 1>and in the interim it's like, man, the million things

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:23.600
<v Speaker 1>have happened that made everything seem strange. So thank you

0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 1>both Julia and Nicole for your emails on this subject

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and if you would like to write to us about

0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 1>this or any other podcast, or at History podcast at

0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.239
<v Speaker 1>i heart radio dot com. And we're also all over

0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 1>social media admiss in History. That's where you'll find our Facebook,

0:40:40.160 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 1>our Twitter, our Pinterest, in our Instagram. I'm gonna be candid.

0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I haven't done anything with the pinterest in a while

0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 1>me either, but it exists. You can also subscribe to

0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>our show on the I heart Radio app and Apple

0:40:53.200 --> 0:41:00.120
<v Speaker 1>Podcasts and anywhere else that you get your podcasts. M

0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of

0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:10.040
<v Speaker 1>visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:41:10.120 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows.