1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here Welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. Eight months 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: pregnant Belinda Temple found dead in her own bedroom closet, 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: the door to the home open. Who murdered Belinda Temple? 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Could it have been a robbery gone wrong? The suspect 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: list is narrowed down to a teen student. Police say 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: things don't add up. It was one of those few 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: cases weever, we have a completely innocent victim. She had 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: lived a lover's live style. She was a teacher, she 10 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: was a mother, she was a wife. She didn't have 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: any bad habits and to find her dead in her 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: house was very heartbreaking. Where to from here? I Nancy 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: Grace and this is Killers amongst Us. Belunda's parents got 14 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: that phone call that mothers and fathers have nightmares about. 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: I dropped them my knees. He lost my daughter, who 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: was the granddaughter that I'm sure it was a beautiful 17 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: or mamma, And I've never got to see. This was 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: no ordinary crime scene. It affected even veteran homicide detective 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Tracy Shipley. In the following days, Detective Shipley began canvassing 20 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: the neighbors pretty much got the same story from everybody. 21 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: It was a typical house. They would see them out 22 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: doing yard work. They looked very happy. But the police 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: would soon learn that one young neighbor lied about his 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: whereabouts that day and he had had a run in 25 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: with Belinda Temple before the mystery surrounding the murder of 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: a beautiful young mom and mom to be. Belinda Temple, 27 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: the mother of a little boy, Evan, pregnant with another child, 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: found in the closet to her bedroom, the bedroom she 29 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: shared with her husband, football star turned coach, David Temple. 30 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: With Me, Catherine Casey, author of Shattered on Amazon that 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: dissects this case. Brandy Kioncini, the owner of The Katy Times, 32 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: forensic expert, Professor Jacksonville State University and author of Blood 33 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan also with me, 34 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: Detective Stephen Lampley at Stephen Lampley dot com and author 35 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: of Outside Your Door on Amazon. To Joseph Scott Morgan, 36 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: forensic expert, listening to what they're saying, I'm still hung 37 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: up on the position of her body, you know what 38 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: hold on Joe Scott to Catherine Casey, author of Shattered You, 39 00:02:53,960 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: described brain matter on the closet wall behind some slacks. 40 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound right to me, because Catherine Casey, it 41 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: reminds me of a time when I prosecuted a case. 42 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: It was first deemed a homicide. A woman was found 43 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: apparently dead of suicide, naked in her bed. She was 44 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: lying down when she shot herself in the head, but 45 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: there was blood spatter under the pillow that she was 46 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: lying on. Blood spatter, Now, obviously that's impossible, so I 47 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: knew immediately that was no suicide. I find that very 48 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: difficult to take in that someone took the time to 49 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 1: cover up brain matter on the wall with slacks. Well, 50 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: certainly a robber or burglar wouldn't have taken time to 51 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: do that. It was a very odd thing. It really 52 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: stuck out when they were looking at the closet and 53 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: documenting the murder scene. To you, Joseph Scott Morgan explained 54 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: to me the significance of the glass, the broken glass 55 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: that was found Nancy. This glass, it was found in 56 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: this single entrance way is what has stumped the police 57 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: for all these years, and what conclusion they drew is 58 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: that the door was not closed when the individual made entrance, 59 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: that the door was actually opened because the glass was 60 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: cast out into the room, as opposed to let's just say, 61 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: people thinking about a glass door at their home or 62 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: a pane of glass, if the door is closed, you're 63 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: trying to gain access, You're going to punch a hole 64 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: through that glass, for instance, to gain entry, setting sick 65 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: your hand in to open the knob. In this case, 66 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: the glasses literally cast across the floor some distance away 67 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: from the door, indicating that the door had been opened 68 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: with great force. And you mentioned earlier that every single 69 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: pain in that door was yeah, and that was significant, Nancy. 70 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: This was a nine pain door. If if people at 71 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: home will just imagine that half of the door is 72 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: just kind of solid upper portion of the doors comprised 73 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: of non individual panes of glass. People have seen these before, 74 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: They're not uncommon. The one glass that's kind of knocked 75 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: out so that you can gain access is almost immedia. 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: It's on the lower level of the of the door 77 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: of the panes of glass. But every other pain, in 78 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: fact wash was shattered but was still in place. This 79 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: gives us an indication that there was a tremendous vibration 80 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: that traveled through that door that you know would give 81 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: you would would coincide with a tremendous amount of force 82 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: that's used to throw this door open and shatter that 83 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: glass in place. Well, I don't understand why all that 84 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: force was needed if the door was open, Joe Scott, 85 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I know that. 86 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: That was one of the curious things for me too, Nancy. 87 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: It was almost as if this was done in anger 88 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 1: and hate to hate to superimpose an idea like this, 89 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: But that's the only conclusion I can come from open 90 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: or unlocked. I guess it was. It was, Oh, well, 91 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. Why would she come home and 92 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: leave the door wide open? I just none of that 93 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: is fitting together for me. Jesseh. Scott Morgan, forensic expert. 94 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: What else catches your attention regarding the murder scene? Oh, 95 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Nancy, this this idea of the covering 96 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: of this tissue on the wall and her death was 97 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: it was determined that she was killed as a result 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: of a blast fem a shotgun, and this is a 99 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: twelve gay shotgun. It's a very robust round and the 100 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: ammunition that was being used was actually buckshot. If people 101 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: at home will think about a ball bearing something that's 102 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: a little bit smaller than say a marble that you 103 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: played with when you were a kid, that's what was 104 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: traveling out at the end of this muzzle. But there 105 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: was no shotgun that was recovered. And shotguns, unlike pistols 106 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,119 Speaker 1: and rifles, are kind of hard ballistically to tie down 107 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: because there are no striations on the bullets on the projectiles. 108 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: It's a smooth bore weapon. The tissue on the wall 109 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: being covered Nancy, I've worked a lot of cases where 110 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: people particularly would go into closets with shotguns because shotguns 111 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: are very common to find in homes. People have these 112 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: as defense weapons, and it makes a horrible mess, which 113 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: it did in this case. What's really kind of grabbing 114 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: me about this our previous speaker had stated that a 115 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: burglar would not have taken time to cover this area up. 116 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: They're just in and out trying to get away. In 117 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: this particular case, these items of evidence as tissue was 118 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: covered up, and someone would have had to have felt 119 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: comfortable comfortable in doing this. There would have been a 120 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: lot of brain, a lot of blood, and also, Nancy, 121 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: a lot of skull that was left there in this little, 122 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: tiny sequestered area, which was a closet in which she 123 00:07:53,160 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: was found with me Catherine Casey, author of Shattered Catherine, 124 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: what strikes you about the crime scene, Well, that it 125 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: was so brutal, there was so much anger. This was 126 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: a contact wound. They determined later that Belinda was actually 127 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: on her knees, facing away from the door, and the 128 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: killer put the shotgun right up to the back of 129 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: her head. I've seen a lot of crime scene photos 130 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: over the years. I've been a true crime writer for 131 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: thirty years, but there are some you never forget, and 132 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: I will never forget the pictures of Belinda in that closet. 133 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: How do they deduce that she was on her knees 134 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: looking away from the closet door, toward the wall, from 135 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: where the direction of the bullet through traveled through the 136 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: skull or the traveled through the skull, and the where 137 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: the brain matter was found that it was low. Explain that, 138 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, what she was speaking of is actually 139 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: the trajectory of the wound and the placement of the weapon. 140 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: So if she's in a kneeling position, the weapon would 141 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: have been from higher to lower the muzzle would have 142 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,599 Speaker 1: been in the blast, and that means that this individual 143 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: is in a dominant position, had more than likely forced 144 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: her into the disposition when the weapon was discharged. One 145 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: interesting fact about this is that when they went back later, 146 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: my understanding is is that they actually found gunshot residue 147 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: on some of the clothing in there, which gives you 148 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: an indication that the individual was in proximity to the 149 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: rack of clothing. So this distributed this powder or unburned 150 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: powder onto the surfaces of the clothing and kind of 151 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: gives you an idea of this claustrophobic environment which she 152 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: spent the last moments of her life with. Me is 153 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: the owner of the Katie Times, Brandy Kioncini. Brandy, the 154 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: crime scene to me is fascinating because that's one thing 155 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: that typically doesn't lie. It can be misinterpreted, but it 156 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: doesn't lie, and that's forensic evidence. What do you make, 157 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: Brandy keion Cini, of what you know of the crime scene, Well, 158 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: it's it's very obvious that this woman, you know, was 159 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, there were some sort of attempt to kind 160 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: of hide her once the shotgun blast was done. They 161 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: said the flacks were pulled back over her head, so 162 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: it was kind of covered. And experts say that intimates 163 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: that there is a knowledge of that victim with the perpetrator. Yeah, 164 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: but when you find a victim who's been covered up, Now, 165 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: I have seen random killings where the victim will be 166 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: covered with leaves or grass, But in this case, what 167 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: does she mean by that? Catherine Casey, author of Shattered, 168 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: that Belinda was covered up, but the flacks were pulled back, 169 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: They've been pushed back on the railing, and they were 170 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: pulled back to cover the brain matter above be Linda's head, 171 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: and it indicated that someone was ashamed, that there was 172 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: some type of an emotional reaction to seeing what he 173 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: had done to Steve Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door. 174 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: You can find him at Stephen Lampley dot com. Steve, 175 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: the fact that her husband found her, do you attach 176 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: any significance to that, planty as possible? You know, you 177 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: got you got many scenarios. Let's say somebody did actually 178 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: break in and then then murder her and left, which 179 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: I've just don't believe based on the other evidence, it 180 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: looks like the crime scenes actually been staged. I don't 181 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: believe that, but let's say somebody did that. Of course, 182 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: in every case, the husband, the spouse, the lover, or 183 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the ex is immediately questioned because 184 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: statistically they could be responsible. Listen to this, crime scene 185 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: investigator Dean Holkey was surprised that a burglar would be 186 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: so violent. How many burglars do you think walk around 187 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: at late in the afternoon caring a shotgun and broad 188 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Day live. Holkey followed the standard procedure and asked to 189 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: test David's hands for gunshot residue. Did you tell him 190 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: what this was? I explained it to him what it 191 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: was for. Did he resist it all? No, not at all. 192 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: David agreed to go with the police and give a statement. 193 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember what was going through your mind at 194 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: that point? Totally non shock. Sometimes it feels like an 195 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: eternity him. Sometimes it feels like it went very quick. 196 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: I can remember having trouble just walking to the cruiser. 197 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends at forty eight hours. That 198 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: was Richard Schlessinger and David Temple just got Morgan. What 199 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: is the point that they are aking? How often do 200 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: you see a burglar walking around a neighborhood with a shotgun. Well, 201 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, a shotgun is something that's going to 202 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: draw attention, unlike what some of us refer to as 203 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: a pocket pistol or a belly gun, something you can 204 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: keep in your waistband, like a small three eighty caliber 205 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: pistol or something like this. Listen, if you're walking down 206 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: the street and you're going to go perpetrate a home 207 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: invasion or some type of property crime, you're going to 208 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: draw attention to yourself. You're walking down the road while 209 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: your daddy shotgun over your shoulder. It's just not something 210 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: that a skilled thief would do. But then then, very 211 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: Belinda is a murdered in her own home, attention turns 212 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: right down the street. The night his wife, Belinda was 213 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: murdered in January nineteen ninety nine, David Temple told police 214 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: he had no idea who did it. Everybody liked Belinda, 215 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: didn't matter where she was. Later, he wondered about one 216 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: of her students, the Temple's next door neighbor, Riley Joe Sanders. 217 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: They had had several battles that I was aware of. 218 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: At the time, he was sixteen and perpetually truant. Belinda 219 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: had reported him to his parents to think he killed Bolan. Honestly, 220 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: don't know. Riley Joe Sanders told the reporter he was 221 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: in school all day, but later admitted to the police 222 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: he cut out to smoke pot with friends. He was 223 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: known to use his father's twelve gage shotguns without permission. 224 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: His friends had stolen shotguns a few weeks earlier, and 225 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: Sanders was in the area around the time that other 226 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: neighbors heard a sudden and startling noise. But there's more. 227 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: Daniel Glascock's Riley Joe Sanders in high school, said he 228 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: wanted to clear his conscience. He said back in nineteen 229 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: ninety nine, he overheard Sanders talk about a burglary that escalated. 230 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: I remember I'm saying nobody was supposed to be there. 231 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: When he went into the house. As went upstairs, the 232 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: dog attacked him. He shot the dog. Her Blinda put 233 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: the dog in the closet and they panic and rand 234 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: It was confusing. The temple's dog was not shot, but 235 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: Glasscock seemed to believe that dog was coded for Belinda 236 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: and that Sanders could be involved in her murder. I 237 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: really believe that an innocent man is sitting in prison 238 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: for something He didn't do. De Garin gave Glasscock's videotape 239 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: statement to the District attorney's office. Wow, it's looking really 240 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: bad for the neighbor down the street. The next thing 241 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: we know, there's more evidence. As clapperd scrutinized the reports, 242 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: he became interested in another break in that happened just 243 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: nine days before Belinda's murder. Some of sand his friends 244 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: had gotten into a home by smashing through glass, like 245 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: the Temple home. They'd gone in and rifle through some stuff, 246 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: and so somebody had taken a CD player, turned it 247 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: on his side and left and sitting on the floor. 248 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: And like the TV and the Temple and the TV 249 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: and the Temple, case was the same kind of way. 250 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: One of the boys had a beef with the man 251 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: who lived there at Clappert wondered if Riley Joe Sanders 252 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: had a beef with Belinda whether that could be a 253 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: motive for him and his friends to break into her 254 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: home when they believed she wasn't there. They want to 255 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: go mess things up, They want to go steal a 256 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: few things. They want to hurt rather than kill. To 257 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: Catherine Casey, author of Shattered, there was a lot going 258 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: on in the neighborhood that afternoon, right, yeah. They the 259 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: investigators did a canvas and they talked to the neighbors, 260 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: and they found out that there were people walking by 261 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: the temple house they were going to get their mail. 262 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: The mailbox was down at the end of the street. 263 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: Kids were arriving home from school, people were coming home 264 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: from work. No one heard anything or claimed to have 265 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: heard anything except the kids who lived behind the temples, 266 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: and their testimony, while intriguing, left a lot of questions 267 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: unanswered because there were people standing out on the street 268 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: at four thirty who didn't hear what the boys heard, 269 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: and there was a car scene in the area around 270 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: that time that somebody did see backfiring. They were dropped 271 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: off here at the bus stop at about three forty five. 272 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: They went home, did about ten or fifteen minutes worth 273 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: of homework, horsed around a little, and started the video. 274 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: That would mean if the boys are correct, that the 275 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: shot was fired at about four thirty. That was the 276 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: time that David was out shopping. He and Evan were 277 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: caught by a surveillance camera at that grocery store. Within days, 278 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: police discovered that Riley Joe Sanders lied about where he was. 279 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: They asked him to take a lie detector test. He 280 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: agreed and failed at least twice. But there was no 281 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: way to link any of the shotguns Sanders and his 282 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: friends had to the crime, and there was no other 283 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: evidence to put Riley Joe Sanders at the scene. What's more, 284 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: the police had another suspect in their sights. I heard 285 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: a lab bone bone growing up, ed and Herman Roberts 286 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: lived in the house behind the temples. This is Herman Roberts. 287 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: He's six years old. The police spoke with them shortly 288 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: after the murder. How many times did you hear that? 289 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: Who thought it was against that? I was sure they 290 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: was at But when exactly did the boys hear that 291 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: bang ello? They happened to be watching Doctor Doolittle at 292 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: the time, and nine years later they remember the exact 293 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: point in the film when they heard the sound right here, 294 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: stop her here. That scene is twenty four minutes and 295 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: fifty seconds into the movie. With that information, police could 296 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: calculate roughly when the boys heard that noise. They were 297 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: dropped off here at the bus stop at about three 298 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: forty five. They went home, did about ten or fifteen 299 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: minutes worth of homework horsed around a little and started 300 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: the video. That would mean if the boys are correct, 301 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: that the shot was fired at about four thirty. Wow, 302 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: when you start basing a timeline on a scene in 303 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: Doctor Doolittle, that reminds me so much. Brandy Key on 304 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Seney Katie Times, owner of the oj Sebsy case, where 305 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: they actually started a timeline at the time somebody heard 306 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: a dog barking. Now that may actually be true, but 307 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: there's really no way to verify that, and timeline is 308 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: really where an investigation and starts. Brandy, I want to 309 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: circle back, Brandy, what Catherine Casey was telling us about 310 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: neighbors on their way to get mail spotting something unusual. 311 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: So there were several neighbors that were out and about. 312 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: There was a young girl that had actually walked past 313 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: the house around five twenty five thirty. There were people 314 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: out in their yards and you know, they really didn't 315 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: see or hear anything until you know, about five twenty 316 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: when David came home. Katherine Casey, what else did neighbors see. Well, 317 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: they said that there'd been tension over at the Temple house. 318 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: Some of them talked about the fact that Belinda had 319 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: done the nursery all by herself, and that David hadn't 320 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: seemed delighted about the pregnancy. So there was a lot 321 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: of talk in town in that area also about the dog, 322 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: about Chaka, about how frightened everybody was of the dog, 323 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: and they didn't understand. Neighbors were standing out on the 324 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: street watching as police were looking through the house, and 325 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: they were wondering how Robert could have gotten in the 326 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: house with Shotka in the backyard. You know. Back to 327 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: the shotgun. To you, Joseph Scott Morgan, explain exactly why 328 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: it's very difficult for a ballistics expert to say in 329 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: a shotgun killing that the shotgun, a specific shotgun was used. 330 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: It is very difficult, Nancy, And this is the reason 331 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: why shotguns the interior of their barrel are referred to 332 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: as what is called smooth bore. If our listeners, who 333 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: are very bright people, and I'm sure already know this, 334 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: we'll just remember back the interior of a shotgun bore is, 335 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: or the barrel is actually similar to say a lead pipe. 336 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: It has no specific lands and grooves like you see 337 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: in a rifled barrel that makes the bullet twist and 338 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: stay on its axis and creates energy and that sort 339 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: of thing and stabilizes a bullet that doesn't happen with 340 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: a shotgun, Nancy, it's smooth. So therefore, when these pellets 341 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: traveled down the long range of the barrel, many times 342 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: they're unstable and they just kind of bounce around randomly, 343 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: and as they exit the barrel, they deploy from a 344 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: sleeve and then they come out virtually unscathed, so there's 345 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: no specific markings tying it back to the barrel itself. 346 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: The one area that we do look to with shotguns, though, 347 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: is if we take the actual spent shell, you'll get 348 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: what are referred to as extractor marks, and that means 349 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: as the shell, assuming that it's a semi automatic, is 350 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: ejected on the side these it literally is grabbed and 351 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: thrown clear, and that little grabbing mechanism inside of the 352 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: shotgun will leave a mark on the brass base of 353 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: those shells. But when you don't have a weapon to 354 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: compare it to, that creates a whole another group of problems. Well, 355 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: there's the issue of Riley Joe Sanders the third to 356 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: Catherine Casey, author of Shattered, what do we know about 357 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: this guy? And why did he have a grudge against 358 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: Belinda Temple. Well, we learned about Riley Joe. Where the 359 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: police learned about Riley Joe from members of the Temple family. 360 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: They said that there's been this problem with this kid 361 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: next or Riley Joe was kind of this laid back 362 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: kid who liked to smoke pot and cut classes, and 363 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: he was sixteen years old than Belinda had been his teacher. 364 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: It would turn out that they're really never There was 365 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: no evidence that Riley Joe had ever been in the house. 366 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: They never found any fibers. They looked for fingerprints, didn't 367 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: find any. They went back to him seven different times, 368 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: I believe, and asked him for statements and interviewed him, 369 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: and he cooperated every time, as did the other kids, 370 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: the ones, the friends that friends of Riley Joe's um. 371 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: You know, he never he took lie detector tests. He 372 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: didn't pass them. Didn't he fail them? Well, they said 373 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: that he was you know, they were what's the term 374 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: when they're not inconclusive? You know, the results were confused, 375 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: and they said that he was not being truthful on 376 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: some questions. He was smoking pot at the time and everything. 377 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: But he stepped up. He did everything they asked him 378 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: to do, and they found no evidence. And when they 379 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: talked to the teachers at school, and when they talked 380 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: to Riley Joe, what they found out was that he 381 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: really liked Belinda. Belinda had been really helpful to him. 382 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: He was a kid who had some learning needs, some 383 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: special needs for some need for some special teaching, and 384 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: Belinda was the teacher who had tried to help him out. 385 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: But the end, there are his friends. Listen to this. 386 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: One of those friends apparently broke into another neighbor's house 387 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: and the area before Temple was killed. One of the 388 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: things they stole was a shotgun. Also, the Sanders family 389 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: happened to be hunters and own shotguns as well. Sanders 390 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: would go out and use his dad's shotgun. But the 391 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: Sanders family cooperated with the investigators turned over all of 392 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: their artillery, so he was not declared a suspect after 393 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: he was initially a person of interest here. But again, 394 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 1: it's all about casting that doubt because the gun that 395 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: was used to shoot Belinda Temple, that shotgun has yet 396 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: to then recover. You know what, That's so true? Steve Lampley, detective, 397 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door on Amazon. They can't find 398 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: the murder weapon, so that presents a big problem, man, 399 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: seeing like Joseph was saying, you're gonna have you're gonna 400 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: need that to look at the extractor, marcis seed since 401 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: the pellets themselves off or no little help whatsoever. Not 402 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: having the murder weapons a big deal. In a lot 403 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: of the fact police can't find the murder weapon, they 404 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: circle back to David Temple because he was the first 405 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: person to discover the body. Police asked David to go 406 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: to the police station to give a statement, and he complies. 407 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: David said that he had taken his son out to 408 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: a park that afternoon and to get a drink and 409 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: then stopped to look for a bracket for a shelf. 410 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: Surveillance tapes from two stores verify his presence there in 411 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: the time. It looks like Belinda was murdered. Police released 412 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: David that night. Meanwhile, the investigation intensifies. It's not long 413 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: before detectives discover that David seems to have some kind 414 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: of significant relationship with a female teacher at school, and 415 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: they bring Heather in for questioning. When police originally questioned 416 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: Heather about her relationship with David, she called it just 417 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: kind of a casual romantic relationship. She didn't imply that 418 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: there was anything going on, that they'd pledged any love, 419 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: or that there was any sexual involvement. Those are our 420 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: friends at scorned. But regardless of the fact that Temple's 421 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: sex relationship with a fellow teacher, Heather, has been unearthed, 422 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: there's still the issue of the video Nancy Grace killers 423 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: amongst us signing off goodbye friend.