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Speaker 1: Episode five, Devil's Star. Habib Ami is tired. He's been

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Speaker 1: on the road for weeks now running auditions for the

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Speaker 1: new season of Afghan Star. He's just wrapped up his

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Speaker 1: work in Kandahar, the birthplace of the Taliban, and now

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Speaker 1: all he wants to do is head home. But there's

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Speaker 1: a problem.

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Speaker 2: There was no flight from kandahart to Cobble.

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Speaker 1: Flights to Kabbo have been inconsistent, so instead Habib and

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Speaker 1: his colleagues will have to drive eight hours on the

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Speaker 1: highway with nothing to look at but long stretches of

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Speaker 1: deserted terrain broken up by far away mountain tims. But

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Speaker 1: it isn't the distance that makes him nervous.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the most dangerous roads in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: Habib joined Afghanistar three years ago. He thought it could

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Speaker 1: move the culture forward and sway a new generation away

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Speaker 1: from the Taliban. But now faced with this long drive

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Speaker 1: through treacherous terrain, it starts to sweat. Habib has heard

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Speaker 1: the rumors there are militants who hide out on this road.

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Speaker 1: He's heard they like to wave machine guns and stop

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Speaker 1: cars for quote inspections, and he knows that kidnappings along

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Speaker 1: the highway have become all too common.

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Speaker 2: If fakefoot have caught us looking at these STAPs and

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Speaker 2: the cameras, it could be very dangerous for us.

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Speaker 1: To protect themselves, they take some simple precautions. They dress

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Speaker 1: in traditional Afghan clothes, a shirt that comes down to

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Speaker 1: the knees and matching pants, and they bury the mountain

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Speaker 1: of tapes and equipment deep in the trunk of the car.

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Speaker 2: We rented a small car and we started the trip.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was quiet, everybody was scared, and nobody wanted to

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Speaker 2: stop to eat something or take a break.

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Speaker 1: Staring out of the window, scanning the landscape for men

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Speaker 1: with guns. Abib is on edge for the entire drive,

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Speaker 1: all eight hours of it, and all he can think is.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this society is not changing, Maybe we are not

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Speaker 2: on the right path. Maybe we are not bringing that change,

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Speaker 2: or we were hoping too much.

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Speaker 1: I'm John Legend and from Kaleidoscope, and iHeart this is Afghanistar. Previously,

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Speaker 1: a female contestant named Satara danced on stage.

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Speaker 2: This is for the first time after the Tolerman that

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Speaker 2: a woman is singing and dancing on the stage.

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Speaker 1: Which incided a wave of backlash against the show and

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Speaker 1: everyone involved in making it.

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Speaker 3: I was next shocked. The reaction was so big. You're

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Speaker 3: not from us. We don't want to hear if you

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Speaker 3: want to walk into this province, you want to shot.

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Speaker 1: You did the recruiting game. The producers of Afghanstar had

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Speaker 1: tried to put the last season behind them. They tried

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Speaker 1: to move past the fact that Satara danced in season

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Speaker 1: three that during her dance her veil dropped from her head,

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Speaker 1: exposing her hair. They knew that parts of the country

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Speaker 1: would be outraged by the spectacle, that they'd see it

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Speaker 1: as haram. In some ways, it was no different than

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Speaker 1: how US audiences reacted to Elvis's hit Swiveling on Ed Sullivan.

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Speaker 4: Elvis, or the interracial kiss on Star Trek, or Ellen's

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Speaker 4: coming out on her sitcom.

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Speaker 5: I'm So Afraid to tell people I mean Susan, I'm gay.

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Speaker 1: TV pushed the boundaries of what society was ready for,

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Speaker 1: except in Afghanistan. Satara's episode put people's lives at risk,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly every female contestant knew that going on Afghanistar

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Speaker 1: was dangerous. So in two thousand and eight, the production team,

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Speaker 1: led by Daoud and Habib, started auditions for season four

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Speaker 1: and they took the show right into the dragons den,

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Speaker 1: the center of the chaos, Satara's hometown of Harat. As

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, a pushback was immediate.

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Speaker 2: We had problems with their religious leaders. They were trying

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Speaker 2: to not let Afghanistan happen. There were a lot of

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Speaker 2: protests in Herod. It was a very very direct message

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Speaker 2: and a direct threat to us.

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Speaker 1: Screaming for Daoud and Habid to leave, to never bring

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Speaker 1: Afghan Star there again. But Daoud and Habib refuse to

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Speaker 1: give up.

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Speaker 2: If we stop audition in one part of the country,

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Speaker 2: then Afghanistan is not what we wanted.

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Speaker 1: And even though they're scared, they have to show strength.

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Speaker 1: They need to tell people it's okay to audition for Afghanstar.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to be scared. But then something odd happens.

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Speaker 1: Daoud starts getting calls from politicians.

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Speaker 3: Governors were inviting us and bag us to come. Everything

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Speaker 3: is on us. The hotel, the food, the security, the area,

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Speaker 3: the place, whatever you want it on us.

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Speaker 1: Daoud's thinking, what's going on here? Why are they suddenly

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Speaker 1: so desperate for Afghanstar to come, And then he realizes

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Speaker 1: the governors are trying to tell the producers that if

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Speaker 1: the Afghanistan team doesn't come to their district, it shows

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Speaker 1: that governors have no control.

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Speaker 3: People will think these areas are under the Toliban.

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Speaker 1: That's right, the Taliban. Because it's been seven years since

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Speaker 1: the American invasion, seven years since the Taliban regime collapsed,

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Speaker 1: and Afghanistan is beginning to fall apart. You still see

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Speaker 1: rubble everywhere and the people are living in it without

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Speaker 1: electricity or clean water. In the aftermath of the American invasion,

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Speaker 1: America had promised to rebuild Afghanistan.

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Speaker 3: We're working hard in Afghanistan. We're clearing mind fields, we're

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Speaker 3: rebuilding roads, we're improving medical care.

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Speaker 1: But corruption was rampant. The kickbacks are undercutting efforts to

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Speaker 1: increase the public's trust in the US military and the

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Speaker 1: Afghan government. Billions of dollars were diverted into the coffers

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Speaker 1: of warlords. These warlords are out for themselves.

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Speaker 2: They run their regions like fiefdoms.

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Speaker 1: And as the war went on, American airstrikes killed thousands

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Speaker 1: of Afghan civilians.

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Speaker 2: These Afghans searched for dead bodies after a US air

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Speaker 2: strike hit a wedding.

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Speaker 1: Party, husbands, fathers, mothers, wives, and many, many children.

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Speaker 3: The youngest was just three months old.

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Speaker 1: More and more innocent people were locked up and disappeared.

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Speaker 3: At ten at night, they came with the cables. They

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Speaker 3: came to my house and arrested me in front of

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Speaker 3: my guests.

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Speaker 1: They said I was with the enemy. Outrage on the

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Speaker 1: ground grew, and that outrage it bred hatred, hatred of

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Speaker 1: the Americans, and the fact that the country felt a

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Speaker 1: lot more dangerous now than it used to be. It

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Speaker 1: was a country divided, divided between cities like Kabo, where

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Speaker 1: young people embraced change, and rural areas where people started

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Speaker 1: to think maybe things weren't so bad before. And so

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Speaker 1: support for the Taliban quietly started to increase, and by

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight they had established a foothold across

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Speaker 1: rural Afghanistan. That's the world that Daoud and Habib are

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Speaker 1: walking into when they go to hold auditions, a world

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Speaker 1: where it's not just Satara who isn't safe, it's also them.

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Speaker 3: Lots of things happened, lots of suiciet bumming happened. In

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Speaker 3: a one son.

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Speaker 6: Outside the wall of the embassy, rocked the Afghan capitals.

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Speaker 3: And the people were killed, and.

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Speaker 6: The explosion left a trail of destruction and casualties in

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Speaker 6: the area.

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Speaker 3: Journalists were killed, people were threatened.

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Speaker 1: Chapter two, The Star of Sun Dance. Somehow Daoud and

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Speaker 1: Habib got through the auditions for season four of Afghan Star.

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Speaker 1: They beat up security and went to towns and provinces

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Speaker 1: all around Afghanistan. They went from Harat to Jalalabad to Kandahar,

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Speaker 1: and they escorted the audition tapes safely on that long

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Speaker 1: drive home without getting stopped or harassed or kidnapped. And

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Speaker 1: then in January two thousand and nine, in the middle

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Speaker 1: of producing season four of Afghan Star, Daoud gets an

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Speaker 1: opportunity he can't pass up. He's invited to go to

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Speaker 1: America to the Sundance Film Festival to attend the premiere

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Speaker 1: of a documentary some filmmakers have been making about Afghan Star.

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Speaker 1: So he asks his bosses if he can go, and

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Speaker 1: they say fine, have fun, and he leaves his young

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Speaker 1: protege Habib in charge.

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Speaker 2: Divide in the middle of the season and everybody was

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Speaker 2: panicking because Thwood was the making the creative decisions. He

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Speaker 2: was a kind of director and producer at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Dwood's coming back in a couple of weeks, so Habib

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Speaker 1: just needs to keep things going until then. It's stressful,

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Speaker 1: but he thinks he can manage.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I was the youngest in the team with least experience.

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Speaker 2: I had to manage a big production team mostly more

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Speaker 2: aged people, so it was very, very, very challenging.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Daoud is having the time of his life. Finally,

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Speaker 1: after three hard years of making Afghanistar day and night,

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Speaker 1: he's having a break. He's in America and he's about

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Speaker 1: to watch a film at the most storied film festival

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Speaker 1: in America, and he's the star. Daoude settles down into

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Speaker 1: his seat. The auditorium is packed. He can't believe everyone

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Speaker 1: is here to see his story. He watches as a

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Speaker 1: younger version of himself Prance, is into action on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Then he steals a glance around him to see how

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Speaker 1: the other people are reacting. People laugh, they gasp, they

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Speaker 1: whisper to one another. He feels like he's finally made it,

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Speaker 1: and then something happens on the screen that makes his

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Speaker 1: stomach lurch.

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Speaker 3: I said something against Doliban. Yeah, I want to say

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Speaker 3: if Dolavan is finished.

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Speaker 1: Daoud feels sick as he listens to himself talking. He

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Speaker 1: knows that the Taliban.

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Speaker 3: Are getting stronger day by day, year by year.

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Speaker 1: And he realizes this film could expose him, make him vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: This is the guy that came up with this dirty

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Speaker 3: idea and immorality in this country.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, sitting in that darkened cinema, he

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Speaker 1: starts to panic. Afghanistar is bigger than it has ever been.

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Speaker 1: Daoud is at sun Dance. He's being interviewed by the

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Speaker 1: international press.

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Speaker 3: New York Times, Al Jazeera, lots of other news outlets

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Speaker 3: interviewed me, talked about my background, what I did, this movie,

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Speaker 3: this This was an international news at that time.

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Speaker 1: This is everything he ever dreamed of as a child.

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Speaker 1: He is Afghanistan's greatest showman. But right now Daoud can't

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Speaker 1: enjoy any of it. He feels exposed.

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Speaker 3: I worked very hard. I've won was like my own show,

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Speaker 3: but I was living in the same poorhouse for the

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Speaker 3: entire time that I was hosting that show. My house

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Speaker 3: was not secure. I didn't even have electricity for most

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Speaker 3: of the time that I lived there. It was so

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Speaker 3: easy for anyone to have access to my home and

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Speaker 3: do anything they wanted.

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Speaker 1: And so he makes a decision.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, one of the hardest decisions of my life.

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Speaker 1: And eventually word gets back to Habib.

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Speaker 2: He didn't tell me, he didn't tell anybody. He just

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Speaker 2: disapt yet.

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Speaker 1: Chapter three, The Things We Carry. In two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: Daou Sidiki left Afghanistan for ever. He didn't tell anyone

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Speaker 1: back home. He just disappeared. It wasn't an easy decision. Remember,

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Speaker 1: Daoud is the director and the host of Afghanistar. It

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Speaker 1: was his whole life, and so it hurt abandoning this

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Speaker 1: beautiful thing he'd created, abandoning his country. But even more

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Speaker 1: than that, he was crushed by how his fans reacted.

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Speaker 3: The name that I had and the celebrity status became

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Speaker 3: something like a poison. I was criticized by almost ninety

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Speaker 3: nine percent of my fans and say, you're just they

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Speaker 3: just sold your land, You just lift your people, your cheat,

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Speaker 3: your liar. It hurted me a lot. I was in

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Speaker 3: some point I didn't want to face any Afghan because

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Speaker 3: when they see me, they would say, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: why do you left. You did a very bad thing.

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Speaker 3: Until today, it just criticized me.

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Speaker 1: But knowing what Daoud knew, he just couldn't stay.

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Speaker 3: At the beginning, I was so eager. I thought of

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Speaker 3: Wonston is in its best time ever. We will never

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Speaker 3: see war again. The entire world is in our favor

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Speaker 3: and our support. Aving government is rebuilding slowly, slowly, getting

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Speaker 3: our country back. And we were so eagerly working for that.

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Speaker 3: But after two thousand and seven, I can say after

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Speaker 3: two three years, then I realized, no, the situation is

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Speaker 3: getting a little bit scary.

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Speaker 1: For a second. Remember everything you know about Daoud. He

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Speaker 1: grew up under the Taliban. He watched the Taliban destroy

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Speaker 1: cassette tapes and record players and televisions. He saw his

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Speaker 1: neighbors smash their own music collections and burn their beloved instruments.

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Speaker 1: He was forced to grow his beard out and change

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Speaker 1: his clothes. He risked his life sneaking around just to

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Speaker 1: listen to the music he wanted to listen to and

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Speaker 1: watch the films he wanted to watch. So when he

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Speaker 1: saw the Taliban on the rise, he thought, I can't

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Speaker 1: live through this again.

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Speaker 3: Sani bahasan kijo, the showy fucker.

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Speaker 2: Money Bestudo sad and shunny sunny demas.

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Speaker 3: Sound now sometimes I see maybe I am. I was

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Speaker 3: the first person to realize the situation is getting worst.

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Speaker 1: Hey, it's John Legend. If you've been listening, you already

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Speaker 1: know that Afghan Star is a tale of resistance and hope.

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Speaker 1: For fifteen years, Afghan Star was a beacon, but when

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Speaker 1: the Taliban returned to power, they shut the show down

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Speaker 1: along with so many Afghan rights. They banned music, education

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Speaker 1: for girls and women, and they continue to clamp down

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Speaker 1: on everyone's freedoms. But there are ways to show your support.

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Speaker 1: We've teamed up with Awa Studios and their incredible graphic

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Speaker 1: artists to illustrate some of the most extraordinary moments in

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Speaker 1: this podcast. There is a unique print for each episode,

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Speaker 1: bringing to life powerful moments that are moving and inspiring,

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Speaker 1: and there's an unforgettable print based on a painting from

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Speaker 1: Superstar artist Raza that represents the spirit of hope embodied

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Speaker 1: by the show. Art and music have the power to

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Speaker 1: uplift us all, and ordering a work for yourself or

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Speaker 1: as a gift help support Afghans. With every purchase, we'll

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Speaker 1: be donating to the Nore Initiative, a nonprofit working to

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Speaker 1: ensure that every Afghan girl has access to education and opportunity.

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Speaker 1: For more information on our collaboration with aw A. The

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Speaker 1: artworks available to listeners, and to learn more about the

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Speaker 1: Nere Initiative's efforts to educate, support independent media, and transform

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Speaker 1: lives across the region, head to the link in our

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Speaker 1: show notes below, Chapter four, The Limits of Charm. After

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Speaker 1: Daoud left, eventually Afghanstar got up and running again. But

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Speaker 1: it turns out the show had a much bigger problem

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Speaker 1: than just a personnel issue because the Taliban are back.

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Speaker 5: If you asked the Taliban member and a lot of people,

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Speaker 5: did you know what would you change the most in Afghanistan?

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Speaker 5: Some people would say Afghan Star.

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Speaker 1: That's Sad Mohseni, the guy who set up Tolo TV

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Speaker 1: and the founder of Afghan Star, the guy who really

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Speaker 1: set in motion this whole cultural revolution that Afghan Star

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Speaker 1: is a part of. And so it is up to

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Speaker 1: him to defend what he has built from those who

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Speaker 1: want to destroy it. And actually Sad has kind of

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Speaker 1: been doing this from the get go. Ever since he

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Speaker 1: set up his TV network. People have been trying to

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Speaker 1: bring him down. It's just Sad is a relentless optimist

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Speaker 1: and he's a bit of an operator.

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Speaker 5: When someone would tell me that the particular individual was

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Speaker 5: detailed against us, I would go and meet them.

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Speaker 1: He's a people person, a smoother. If you scroll this

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Speaker 1: contacts list, he's got everyone from ambassadors to a list

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Speaker 1: comedians to poet laureates to fortune fifty CEOs in there.

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Speaker 1: He's good at winning people over. And it's this skill,

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Speaker 1: this secret weapon that SAD deploys to defend Afghanstar from attacks.

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Speaker 5: We had these weekly meetings with members of Parliament and

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Speaker 5: they're starting with the people who were most against us.

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Speaker 5: So we tried to engage our critics as much as

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Speaker 5: possible and the use of charm, logic, whatever, or all

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Speaker 5: of the above, basically to convince them that we were

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Speaker 5: not their enemies and that what we were doing was

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Speaker 5: in the interest of the people.

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Speaker 1: They complained about him airing Indian soap operas with religious

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Speaker 1: statues in the background, Hindu characters and big TV shows

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Speaker 1: and women showing too much skin. Even the President was

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Speaker 1: always calling to shout at him.

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Speaker 5: He was always lecturing me about social norms and social conventions.

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Speaker 5: He said, you know, you have to take into account

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Speaker 5: what's acceptable in this society. I said, well, if it's

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Speaker 5: not acceptable to people, there's a remote control and you

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Speaker 5: can change the channel. So I laughed, of course, and

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Speaker 5: then he told his National security advisor, this man, he's

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Speaker 5: too much of smileness. I don't want to see him again.

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Speaker 1: But despite the scrapes, Sad always manages to find a

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Speaker 1: way out. He keeps his soap operas on the air

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Speaker 1: by pixelating the exposed midriffs. He sends his younger brother,

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Speaker 1: who's a lawyer, to argue his way out of sticky situations.

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Speaker 1: And when the clerics get loud, he even reaches out

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Speaker 1: to religious leaders and says, hey, why don't we broadcast

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Speaker 1: your sermons on Friday night?

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Speaker 5: And of course all of a sudden that was exciting

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Speaker 5: for them because that'd be there on television. Then they

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Speaker 5: would be vying for, you know, for the camera crew

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Speaker 5: to visit their mosques. So I think you have to

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Speaker 5: engage at all levels, and I think in particular with

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Speaker 5: your critics, you have to engage them, and you have

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Speaker 5: to talk to them, and you have to break bread

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Speaker 5: with them.

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Speaker 1: And so when he starts receiving complaints from the Taliban

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Speaker 1: about Afghan Star, he thinks he can handle it the

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Speaker 1: way he's always handled it. He just called them up

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Speaker 1: to talk it out. After all, he's got the Taliban

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Speaker 1: on speed now too.

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Speaker 5: They would actually call me personally and they would, you know,

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Speaker 5: we'd have these conversations, you know, and initially they would

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Speaker 5: introduce themselves, they'd ask about the family and everything, and

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Speaker 5: they were very always, very friendly. And then they would

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Speaker 5: always complain like, you know, we launched this attack against

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Speaker 5: the Americans and we killed like fifty Americans, always exaggerating, and.

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Speaker 1: Sad would be like, are you sure it was fifty Americans?

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Speaker 1: It's like, would you believe thirty?

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Speaker 5: You know, like, you know, we're negotiating in terms of

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Speaker 5: how many people they killed. It was almost comical.

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Speaker 1: Sad knows the Taliban are posturing, they're bragging about numbers,

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Speaker 1: they're overstating their claims, but he also knows that Taliban

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Speaker 1: are a real threat and they hate Afghan Star. They

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Speaker 1: won't stop attacking the show, the music, the dancing, the women.

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Speaker 5: I think it's called Devil's Star by some people.

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Speaker 1: But Sad continues to talk to them, and they spend

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Speaker 1: a few years kind of circling around each other, a

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Speaker 1: bit like that meme of those two crabs on the beach,

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Speaker 1: Pencers out forever circling until one day in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: when S'd's phone rings, it's the Taliban. They tell Sad

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Speaker 1: that they aren't happy with a news story that his company, TOTOTV,

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Speaker 1: has aired.

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Speaker 5: The story related to the siege of a city in

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Speaker 5: the north of Afghanistan called Kunda's.

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Speaker 1: Afghan security forces stretched to the limit as the Taliban

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Speaker 1: seized control of most if not all, of Kundu's, storming

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Speaker 1: the town from three sides at dawns. This is a

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Speaker 1: big turning point for the Taliban enemies.

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Speaker 5: The city temporarily fell to the Taliban. The insurgents claimed

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Speaker 5: to have taken over several government buildings, a hospital, and

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Speaker 5: a jail where they freed hundreds of prisoners.

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Speaker 1: It's the first time a city has fallen to the

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Speaker 1: Taliban since the American invasion in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the most serious losses in the nearly

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Speaker 3: fourteen year war with the Taliban.

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Speaker 1: During the siege, the Taliban raided a hostel that usually

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Speaker 1: housed women's students.

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Speaker 5: One of the Afghan intelligence officials off camera that there

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Speaker 5: were some female students in the hustle and they had

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Speaker 5: been attacked.

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Speaker 1: The story was wrong. Sod's TV channel put out a

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Speaker 1: correction almost immediately.

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Speaker 5: But the Taliban took exception to that story, saying that

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Speaker 5: he's done this on purpose.

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Speaker 1: They think Sod's company is trying to make them look bad.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Sod isn't too worried. He thinks it's a

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Speaker 1: simple case of kissing the ring, showing real remorse and

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Speaker 1: promising it won't happen again. But to his horror, the

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Speaker 1: Taliban are not interested. After the capture of Kundus, they

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Speaker 1: feel more powerful, and so they do something terrifying, something

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Speaker 1: that shows Sod that whatever his skills at networking and

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Speaker 1: his contacts and his charm are his life, the lives

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Speaker 1: of his car and the cultural revolution are now in

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Speaker 1: severe danger.

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Speaker 5: They issued the spatoir against us.

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Speaker 6: It is known to everyone that alongside the military invasion

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Speaker 6: of Afghanistan by America, its intelligence operators simultaneously launched propaganda war,

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Speaker 6: during the course of which many so called free media

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Speaker 6: channels were propped up that is still being directly funded

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Speaker 6: by the American embassy. These networks encourage obscenity and lewdness,

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Speaker 6: inject the minds of youth with dangerous substances such as irreligiousness, immorality, violence, gambling,

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Speaker 6: intermixing and profanity, and specifically spread propaganda filled with hate.

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Speaker 1: Sad turns the page and what he reads next fills

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Speaker 1: him with shread.

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Speaker 6: The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan from now onwards does not

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Speaker 6: recognize Hollow TV as a media outlet. It declares them

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Speaker 6: to be military targets which will be eliminated.

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Speaker 1: Afghan Star is a Kaleidoscope production in collaboration with iHeart Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: produced by samas dot Audio and hosted by me John

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Speaker 1: Legend from samas dot Audio. The series producer is Mira Kumar.

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Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Joe Sykes and Dasha Listsina. Mixed

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Speaker 1: and sound designed by jo Imptman, Story editing by Joe

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Speaker 1: Sykes with original composition by Kyle Murdoch Recording engineer Tim mcclen.

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Speaker 1: Chapter artwork by Awa Studios from Kaleidoscope. The executive producers

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Speaker 1: are Kate Osborne, Mengesh, Kati, Kadur Oz Volisian and Costas

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Speaker 1: Linos from iHeart. The executive producers are Ali Perry and

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Speaker 1: Katrina Norbel. Social media by Darra Patts and Vahiny Shoori.

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Speaker 1: Special thanks to Tom Preston. Lizzie Jacobs, Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman,

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Speaker 1: Nikki Etore, Bob Pittman, John Sykes, con O Byrne, Sad Mssenni,

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Speaker 1: and the Mussenni family, Matthew Anderson and Axo Alonzo.

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Speaker 5: They do