Speaker 1: Previously on Quest Left Supreme with Johnny Maher, I'm going
Speaker 1: down this Nicolo rabbit hole. I'm about to interview Nicolo
Speaker 1: for Quels. I heard in some interview that you're a
Speaker 1: fan of his, and I was just wondering where you
Speaker 1: caught onto that scene.
Speaker 2: All musicians, certainly of a certain age, all regarding Nick
Speaker 2: Lowe as a great man, a great musician. And when
Speaker 2: I said earlier, when I was talking to Quest of
Speaker 2: about I left school t at fifteen to be in
Speaker 2: a band with adults. That was to go to Nicklo's
Speaker 2: house and make demos for Elvis Costello's manager. That was
Speaker 2: the first recording studio I was ever in, and I
Speaker 2: was I think maybe he was in fourteen.
Speaker 3: Jake Rivieira, Yeah, Jake.
Speaker 2: Riviera called me one day when I came home from school.
Speaker 4: I was still in my school uniform.
Speaker 2: I thought it was one of my piles playing at
Speaker 2: Frank one of my other piles had sent in a
Speaker 2: tape of my band to Jake Riviera and.
Speaker 3: He liked it for Stiff Records.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing came of it, but it was a a
Speaker 2: big experience for me because I'd never been in a
Speaker 2: recording studio and I was in Nick Lowe's house.
Speaker 3: While we were there, Nick Lowe came.
Speaker 4: Back from an American tour.
Speaker 2: I didn't meet him, but I saw him. I saw
Speaker 2: his cowboy boots wobbling up the stairs up to his
Speaker 2: bedroom honestly, very very unsteadily, and then heard a crash,
Speaker 2: and then no.
Speaker 4: One saw him for a few days.
Speaker 2: But I then worked with him because Behind her first
Speaker 2: single was produced by Nick low the first Pretender single,
Speaker 2: and because you knew I was a fan of Nick
Speaker 2: Low When we went in the studio to do the
Speaker 2: only recording that I did with the Pretenders, we got
Speaker 2: Nick Low to produce it. So I eventually got to
Speaker 2: work with Nick low on a couple of songs and
Speaker 2: we did it in one take, and Nick was like, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: I know my reputation is that I just say one take,
Speaker 2: but really the first take was the take, and we
Speaker 2: did it about four times and then he was right,
Speaker 2: one takes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's cool, great.
Speaker 3: Man, awesome, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 1: And now Sugar Steve's one on one interview with Nick Lowe,
Speaker 1: is it two?
Speaker 3: Is the music too? Hours? Just as you were watching,
Speaker 3: I was listening to one of the most incredible, simply
Speaker 3: insane in nineteen seventy eight and every live version the
Speaker 3: Power of So it goes like upon it. You have
Speaker 3: many nicknames. In fact, nick is your name. But how
Speaker 3: did you get the nickname the Basher? You're not Sir Basher.
Speaker 4: At this point, No, no, no, a rise, Sir Basher.
Speaker 4: That was doctor feel Good used to call me Basha.
Speaker 4: And because my dad was in the Air Force. The
Speaker 4: popular sort of story is that all the Air Force
Speaker 4: guys used to have these rather silly nicknames, you know,
Speaker 4: Biffo and Befo's bought it and you know that sort
Speaker 4: of thing. And because my dad was in the Air Force,
Speaker 4: that was then my nickname. But most people think it's
Speaker 4: because at the time. In one interview when I was
Speaker 4: producing records, I said to the interview when I was
Speaker 4: asked about my technique, suppose technique that I had, I said, well,
Speaker 4: what I do is I tend to bash it down
Speaker 4: and tart it up later. Tarting it up means sort
Speaker 4: of prettying it up, you know, you know, record it
Speaker 4: quickly and then you get a good feel, you know,
Speaker 4: on the on the music. Then you put the hand
Speaker 4: colaps as you say, and back in vocals and because
Speaker 4: the feel is the important thing. But I used the
Speaker 4: word bash it down and people thought that's where Basha
Speaker 4: came from.
Speaker 3: I always thought it was bashing on the drums and
Speaker 3: the beast and oh a loud punk sound. So your
Speaker 3: new album, I want to highlight this because it's great
Speaker 3: that there's a new album coming out from you, which
Speaker 3: comes out September thirteenth. Indoor Safari so so interesting the
Speaker 3: story behind this album where where you're able to tour
Speaker 3: a set of songs and then record the album once
Speaker 3: you've worked them out on the road. It seems like
Speaker 3: that's part of what happened here. And also some of
Speaker 3: them were recorded previously as well, and you re recorded
Speaker 3: them or added things. Is that right?
Speaker 4: That is quite right. Yeah. We didn't have any plans
Speaker 4: to record at all when we first got together. We
Speaker 4: got together to do Christmas shows in fact, and we
Speaker 4: didn't know whether it would work, you know, or be
Speaker 4: a success for the collaboration. But it turned out we
Speaker 4: really enjoyed it, and as time went on and we
Speaker 4: saw the audiences grow, it became apparent that it would
Speaker 4: be well, it'd be a good idea to have some
Speaker 4: sort of recording for sale on the merch table. We
Speaker 4: had no ambitions really beyond that. And I suppose we
Speaker 4: could have knocked out an EP of covers, you know,
Speaker 4: just three or four covers, but it didn't seem to
Speaker 4: be much fun in that, you know. And I'd started
Speaker 4: writing songs with this collaboration in mind. But the problem
Speaker 4: we ran into was with this simple, simple music, it
Speaker 4: only really comes together and gets a life after it's
Speaker 4: been played in front of an audience. Then it gets
Speaker 4: a personality and gets cool. But just going into studio
Speaker 4: and knocking out a song, even a simple one, is well,
Speaker 4: you can be done, you know, but it doesn't really
Speaker 4: sort of fly, you know. But anyway, we did our best.
Speaker 4: The other thing is a recording studio. So we're sitting
Speaker 4: in this lovely room here, which you can as soon
Speaker 4: as I walked in. You know, this is a familiar
Speaker 4: to me, the place like this. They're becoming rarer and
Speaker 4: rarer and rarer. And yes, we're sitting in this lovely studio.
Speaker 4: And even though with our group we've got a sort
Speaker 4: of modern sensibility about the way we want to present ourselves,
Speaker 4: you know, as being grown ups, you know, but playing
Speaker 4: this young people's music or young people for our generation. Anyway,
Speaker 4: it's got a retro it's a retro vehicle for these songs.
Speaker 4: And so that means you need a room like this
Speaker 4: really for us all to play live in because it's
Speaker 4: not the sort of music you can do piecemeal, you know,
Speaker 4: like most records have made on computers now they do
Speaker 4: the components are put down one at one at a time.
Speaker 4: And with this sort of music we do it. You can't.
Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that doesn't sound any good. You know.
Speaker 4: He's got he's got to be played live, and you
Speaker 4: need a room like this. Well, unfortunately most studios aren't.
Speaker 4: They've all gone like this, have all gone, and most
Speaker 4: pop music is made in little rooms with maybe two rooms,
Speaker 4: one with a with a computer in and the other
Speaker 4: one with a kidd of drums and some sort of keyboard.
Speaker 4: And that's fair enough. But that's how we made these
Speaker 4: these records because we'd have to we'd have to book
Speaker 4: a studio in one of the cities we were visiting
Speaker 4: on our tour, you know, because I live in London,
Speaker 4: they live in the United States, and we never knew
Speaker 4: what you going to get, but we'd cram into the
Speaker 4: little room with the kid of drums in it and
Speaker 4: the synthesizer, you know, and do our best to play
Speaker 4: these things. But so when yep Rock suggested that we
Speaker 4: put these three four track CDs that we put on
Speaker 4: the merch table, when they when they suggested that we
Speaker 4: made a compilation album, I could see the wisdom in that.
Speaker 4: But I've really thought we should revisit the tunes because
Speaker 4: they were they were good tunes, and and I'm not
Speaker 4: prolific enough to be able to just throw them away,
Speaker 4: you know, and and come up with a brand spanking
Speaker 4: new bunch. So I thought we should re record some
Speaker 4: of these things. So it's almost like we released the
Speaker 4: demos before the before the album.
Speaker 3: But how'd you end up making the whole thing sounds
Speaker 3: so cohesive, it doesn't sound like it was recorded in
Speaker 3: various this or that.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that you asked ask me that Steve
Speaker 4: that is down to the Great Alex Hole, who is
Speaker 4: someone I've ad move for a while. He's engineered and
Speaker 4: produced some of my favorite records. He's got a studio
Speaker 4: in Chicago, and he oversaw the re recording and plus
Speaker 4: the new tune we did. I don't know, two or
Speaker 4: three new tunes as well. It's down to him that
Speaker 4: he gave all these tracks that were recorded over three
Speaker 4: years this cohesive sound.
Speaker 3: Secret weapon, I assume is those strait jackets for this record.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there seems to be a real love
Speaker 3: affair between you and that band, a mutual admiration type thing.
Speaker 3: They do instrumental versions of your songs. You give them
Speaker 3: a little mini set in the middle of your live
Speaker 3: show to do their thing. It's an incredible match really
Speaker 3: musically and texturally. I've seen your show with them a
Speaker 3: number of times and it puts me in a trance,
Speaker 3: Like I get hypnotized watching them do their thing. They're
Speaker 3: like a machine, but they're human, and there's this preciseness
Speaker 3: to it all. But there's also this loess to it all,
Speaker 3: which I assume is the best of well, exactly what
Speaker 3: you're looking for in a backing band.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I as I say, I didn't know it was
Speaker 4: going to work. You know, it wasn't something i'd been
Speaker 4: because I've known them for a long time, you know,
Speaker 4: before we started working together, and I always thought they
Speaker 4: were great, you know, But I didn't know that this
Speaker 4: was going to happen, this strange thing where where the
Speaker 4: two of us create a third element.
Speaker 3: You know, it works so well because they're doing their
Speaker 3: thing and then there you are sort of floating on
Speaker 3: top of it all with your vocal and your acoustic guitar,
Speaker 3: and it works.
Speaker 4: When we started, we had to start somewhere, of course,
Speaker 4: and when we did our first show, we played at
Speaker 4: First Avenue, that club in Minneapolis, and the club owners
Speaker 4: allowed us to rehearse there, you know, for a couple
Speaker 4: of days before our first show in the club, which
Speaker 4: is very nice of them. And so we had to
Speaker 4: start somewhere, you know, and you sent them a list
Speaker 4: of songs I thought were good work along with the
Speaker 4: Christmas songs. What you were doing, you know, some of
Speaker 4: my catalog tunes, and bless their hearts, you know, they'd
Speaker 4: learnt up the records as best they could, although there
Speaker 4: are keyboards on a lot of my tunes, my early tunes,
Speaker 4: and they've done the best look to learn up the records.
Speaker 4: And that really lasted for about twenty minutes or something
Speaker 4: before we mutually agreed that we'll forget about that and
Speaker 4: just make it up ourselves, you know, and just do
Speaker 4: the song as if it was, We're hearing it for
Speaker 4: the first time, and that's when it started getting in gear.
Speaker 3: It's a regular Nickel album because all the songs are good.
Speaker 3: I've been leaning into Blue on Blue. You've been playing
Speaker 3: that as part of the live set as well. Trombone
Speaker 3: is my favorite. It's one of those songs where it's like, ah,
Speaker 3: this dude just went and wrote a song called trombone,
Speaker 3: you know, one of those things like how did nobody
Speaker 3: think of that? Yet? Of course there's no trombone in
Speaker 3: the song. I believe there's two versions, yeah, one with
Speaker 3: one that out. I don't know, but I'm a huge
Speaker 3: Roy Orbison fan. Was he any influence on you in
Speaker 3: your life or on that song at all?
Speaker 4: Actually, what I sort of thought I was channeling was
Speaker 4: Neil Diamond on that because it's sort of a trombone
Speaker 4: come play your song, so it seemed.
Speaker 3: To I mean, I heard Nick Lowe, but that climactic ending.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, I guess. So, yes, I can't quite
Speaker 4: do it, you know exactly.
Speaker 3: You hit the Nick low version of that at the end.
Speaker 3: The first time I saw you or met you was
Speaker 3: at David Letterman taping in two thousand and eight. I
Speaker 3: think it must have been a Thursday when a show
Speaker 3: does two shows. They were camera blocking or sound checking
Speaker 3: both music acts that they were going to have to
Speaker 3: record that day. And turns out one was the Roots
Speaker 3: and one was you, and you were probably promoting. At
Speaker 3: my age, I was on stage with the Roots setting
Speaker 3: mics or whatever, and I look out to the audience.
Speaker 3: One person sitting in the audience, Nick Lowe. You know
Speaker 3: how a fan thinks this is my chance.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: So I walk out there and I mutter something completely
Speaker 3: incoherent about the Bay City Rollers and have no idea
Speaker 3: what you said, and I walked away. The second time
Speaker 3: I met you was at the Tonight show in twenty
Speaker 3: twelve promoting this Old Magic, and you came into the
Speaker 3: Roots rehearsal room and you signed a few records for me,
Speaker 3: and I muttered something incoherent about the Bay City Rollers.
Speaker 3: More recently, backstage at a Costello show in twenty twenty
Speaker 3: three last year, saw you backstage and muttered something incoherent
Speaker 3: to you about the Bay City Rollers. So I am
Speaker 3: a huge Bay City Rollers fan from back in the day,
Speaker 3: and you have this connection to them, and I want
Speaker 3: you to tell the story of b C Rollers We
Speaker 3: Love You and what that was all about. And then
Speaker 3: I have sort of a production follow up question about
Speaker 3: it about all that.
Speaker 4: Oh well, I hope this isn't going to sort of
Speaker 4: burst your bubble, you know, because I'm not not a
Speaker 4: particular Yes.
Speaker 3: You are, I know you are. I'm here to get
Speaker 3: you to admit it. That's what this is about. A. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, after the group I was in, Brinsley Schwartz split up,
Speaker 4: I was a bit of a loose end in terms
Speaker 4: of what to do because by this time I'd fallen
Speaker 4: in with a guy called Jake Riviera, who was managed
Speaker 4: another band that we were friends, that Brinsleys were friends with.
Speaker 4: And I started hanging out with Jake more and more,
Speaker 4: and I'd stay stay over asleep on his couch, you know,
Speaker 4: and in his slightly grubby flat in South Kin, and
Speaker 4: we both could feel something was coming over the hill,
Speaker 4: you know. We knew that something was up.
Speaker 3: It was like nineteen seventy six, yeah.
Speaker 4: Seventy five, maybe seventy five, seventy six. We could sort
Speaker 4: of feel it. And we had friends in New York
Speaker 4: as well who were feeling the same way. What it
Speaker 4: was was, this was the Punk Explosion, which came from
Speaker 4: New York. Really, I mean London did something else with it,
Speaker 4: you know. But we could feel this change in the air,
Speaker 4: and Jake started managing me and he couldn't get he
Speaker 4: couldn't really get any anyone interested in me. So I
Speaker 4: could get a record deal. I was still with a
Speaker 4: United Artist then that's the Brinsley's label, and I sort
Speaker 4: of had to get out of my contract with United
Speaker 4: Artists in order to do something out go somewhere else.
Speaker 4: And I thought what I should do is to make
Speaker 4: a really terrible record and say that this is the
Speaker 4: direction I want to go in, you know. So they
Speaker 4: say all that we can't do that. So I came
Speaker 4: up with this idea of doing this fan record for
Speaker 4: the basity Rollers. I'm really sorry, Steve. I got to
Speaker 4: tell you this, man, because I'm sorry. What I have
Speaker 4: to tell you after this, Well, I came up with
Speaker 4: this basicity Rollers, we love you, and I got a
Speaker 4: few a few cats into to do the do the record,
Speaker 4: and we got some the local kids school into to
Speaker 4: sing in the chorus and handed it into United Artists
Speaker 4: and instead of them saying that, oh well, thanks very much, Nick, goodbye,
Speaker 4: they thought it was really good. Yes they did, and
Speaker 4: so they you know, they wouldn't let they wouldn't let
Speaker 4: me go. Allegedly they released it in Japan where the
Speaker 4: where the basically Rollers were really big and and it
Speaker 4: was quite a successful record. But I don't know how
Speaker 4: true that is.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, this was the first song you ever produced.
Speaker 4: I think it probably was, actually yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that being said, the production style that you
Speaker 3: did in this novelty song, or however you want to
Speaker 3: qualify it, you did a great job, first of all,
Speaker 3: of making it sound like a basic a roller song,
Speaker 3: as well as in the a later song called Rollers Show. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what I'm asking you is, do you feel in the
Speaker 3: making of that record that you might have stumbled upon
Speaker 3: something that helped to create your later production style or
Speaker 3: the production style for a rock pile or for your
Speaker 3: first couple solo albums. Let's say, did you find some
Speaker 3: secret in there in the engineering or in the production
Speaker 3: that maybe you liked, maybe in the arrangements. So my
Speaker 3: question is was there anything you discovered that you carried
Speaker 3: over into your regular productions.
Speaker 4: It's a great question, you know, I've never thought about that,
Speaker 4: but there I think there is some there sort of
Speaker 4: was because I was really.
Speaker 3: Gotcha. We're all about gotcha journalism.
Speaker 4: So it took me a long time to become friends
Speaker 4: with Dave Edmonds. He was always was a real loaner,
Speaker 4: you know, and when I eventually got his attention, he
Speaker 4: let me sit in in the studio and he was recording.
Speaker 4: I loved his records, you know, and he used to
Speaker 4: do everything himself, and he would invite me into the
Speaker 4: studio really as a as an audience, you know, of
Speaker 4: one so and he wouldn't talk to me much, but
Speaker 4: I'd sit there and watch him, and then it's a
Speaker 4: bit by bit, you know. He'd get me to go
Speaker 4: and scratch a mic to see if it was on,
Speaker 4: you know, or drop him in. You know. He used
Speaker 4: to showed me how to drop in his guitar and
Speaker 4: he was doing guitar parts sitting at the desk, you know,
Speaker 4: and then eventually go out and do a handclap, you know,
Speaker 4: or go and sing a harmony. And bit by bit
Speaker 4: we started doing it together in a way. But I
Speaker 4: was very much the second class citizen, you know. He
Speaker 4: did it all. But I watched him very carefully, and
Speaker 4: he was fantastic in the studio, so you could do
Speaker 4: this with analog equipment, as you definitely know that you
Speaker 4: can make an analog recording equipment do stuff that it
Speaker 4: doesn't It shouldn't really be made to do which you
Speaker 4: can't do on digital. Maybe you can, but I sound
Speaker 4: it just protests in the most horrible way. You know,
Speaker 4: it does not, whereas analog stuff doesn't. And he was
Speaker 4: so great at playing the desk, you know, making the desk,
Speaker 4: mistreating it in some cases are the best sounds. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he was a great influence on me. So when I
Speaker 4: went to this studio to do that basically Rollers for
Speaker 4: a start off, it was where all the London reggae
Speaker 4: records were made, and that guy who engineered it was
Speaker 4: the guy who engineered all these reggae records. So it
Speaker 4: had a pretty cool sound. You know, the studio did
Speaker 4: have a pretty cool sound, and I was also in
Speaker 4: my bid to imitate the basicity Rollers for the purposes
Speaker 4: of that record. You know that some of their signature tropes.
Speaker 4: You know, there was a style of British pop records
Speaker 4: at the time, music that I didn't really like. It
Speaker 4: was all the top ten stuff all had this sort
Speaker 4: of sound and I was trying to imitate it. I
Speaker 4: tried it out to see if I could do it
Speaker 4: in the studio for this record, to see if I
Speaker 4: could do a sort of mash up of the reggae
Speaker 4: engineer with this basically roller sort of sheen, you know,
Speaker 4: which it was the wrong studio to accomplish that, but
Speaker 4: it was a little suggestion of it really. But then
Speaker 4: I think in the future I started to get interested
Speaker 4: in doing anarchics, writing songs which were slightly unusual in
Speaker 4: some way, but trying to put a sheme of respectability
Speaker 4: on them, like this kind of corny pop sound, you know,
Speaker 4: or my version of it. Anyway, I was trying to
Speaker 4: be imitated. I didn't know really how to do it,
Speaker 4: but I've never I've never thought of it. Do you
Speaker 4: ask me that question?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you can do corny things as as
Speaker 3: long as you do them in a cool way sort of.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so you go, you know, what the hell
Speaker 4: is this kind of music?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: And well, what the hell kind of music was it?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: The basically roles they seem to be doing their own
Speaker 3: version of like a retro thing.
Speaker 4: I think that was their producers, you know, I think
Speaker 4: I think they did what they were told, you know, not.
Speaker 3: Writing to be honest with you basic roles. We love
Speaker 3: You does sound like a novelty song, but Roller Show
Speaker 3: sounds like just a kick ass song, especially the way
Speaker 3: it was recorded. But since you segued a little bit
Speaker 3: into Dave Edmonds, you must be considered one of your
Speaker 3: musical soul meats. But I wanted just for a second
Speaker 3: Terry Williams and Billy Bremner. Can you please tell us
Speaker 3: a little bit more about the lesson two of that band,
Speaker 3: Billy Bremner on guitar and vocals and Terry Williams on drums.
Speaker 4: Yes, with pleasure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They By the sort of mid nineteen seventies, Dave and
Speaker 4: I had become more equal, actual friends. You know, I
Speaker 4: wasn't just this kid who went and tea boy tea boy,
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. Yeah, So we were more friends and we
Speaker 4: used to you know, I was sort of effectively out
Speaker 4: of work really, but we used to and Dave lived
Speaker 4: in North London. But in between us was this pub
Speaker 4: called the Churchill on Church Street, Kensington. Maybe some of
Speaker 4: your listeners will know it's quite a well known pub
Speaker 4: and we used to meet there just about every evening
Speaker 4: and have a drink or two, and we would discuss
Speaker 4: the possibility of putting a group together. Well, Edmunds was
Speaker 4: absolutely dead set against it. He said, I've done all that,
Speaker 4: you know, I was in bands, you know, I don't
Speaker 4: want to be in a band anymore. Until he'd had
Speaker 4: a couple of beers and then he'd start changing his
Speaker 4: mind about it, you know, and then he said, well,
Speaker 4: who if we did, If we did, who would we get.
Speaker 4: So I had a couple of ideas about people, you know,
Speaker 4: who could maybe approach, and he didn't think much of
Speaker 4: my ideas. But Terry Williams was the guy who first
Speaker 4: he was Welsh, also as Dave was Welsh, and he
Speaker 4: played with a band called Man who were kind of
Speaker 4: I was just thinking there was like a kind of
Speaker 4: San Francisco group, you know. They were like Moby Grape
Speaker 4: or Quicksilver Messenger Service or one of those kinds of geah.
Speaker 4: Oh no, they were terrific. Man were great, but Terry
Speaker 4: was something really something, you know. But they were very
Speaker 4: very tight. Those guys were really really tight. And I said, well,
Speaker 4: Terry's not going to leave Man, and he said and
Speaker 4: Dave said, no, he's not so therefore we let's stop
Speaker 4: thinking about it, you know. But anyway Terry did. So
Speaker 4: suddenly we had a drummer and we approached Terry and
Speaker 4: he was keen. And then Edmund said, well we aren't.
Speaker 4: There's no who are we going to get to play guitar,
Speaker 4: and no one knows how to play any decent guitar,
Speaker 4: you know. And then he went to see this group
Speaker 4: one night. They were a sort of pub group really
Speaker 4: called Fatso and and they were cad of sort of
Speaker 4: a comedy group really, but he said, they've got they've
Speaker 4: got a fantastic guitar place. And he can see he
Speaker 4: got really vibe up about it. And it was actually
Speaker 4: Billy who made Edmonds agree to put this band together.
Speaker 4: They've fantastic you know. Terry is really unbelieve. Unfortunately he
Speaker 4: doesn't play anymore.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, Billy Bremner.
Speaker 4: Billy does. In fact, Billy plays in He lives in
Speaker 4: Sweden now and he plays with a sort of rock
Speaker 4: Pile tribute group called the rock Files or something, and
Speaker 4: they they they tore it. Actually they've sound sort of
Speaker 4: more like rock Pile than rock Pile.
Speaker 3: Many things I noticed about rock Pile, but something interesting.
Speaker 3: There's no keyboards in Rock Pile, just like those Street Jackets,
Speaker 3: and you see some obvious similarities between those two bands.
Speaker 4: I didn't, but I sort of do now.
Speaker 3: The precision of it are and the looseness, like I
Speaker 3: said earlier, and rock and rollness of it.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, they're quite different players, but in the respect
Speaker 4: you just mentioned that there's a lot of similarities. I'm
Speaker 4: a file fezer vox guy, you know, organ I prefer
Speaker 4: I love that sort of sound when a keyboard is needed,
Speaker 4: you know, in that era, and a piano of course,
Speaker 4: but I don't want to sound like a ludd eye,
Speaker 4: you know. I don't mind plugging in a synthesizer, you know,
Speaker 4: and fiddling around nidio. Well not for too long. There's
Speaker 4: something about just a guitar group and trying to imitate
Speaker 4: a keyboard, getting a part that it will imitate a
Speaker 4: keyboard to suggest a keyboard part that is more fun
Speaker 4: in a way, and it's quite liberating.
Speaker 3: You know. I think Rock Pile is vastly unheralded as
Speaker 3: a kick ass band, as one of the great bands,
Speaker 3: because you guys are locked in. It seems like you
Speaker 3: all knew exactly what to do to create what you
Speaker 3: were trying to create. How come you didn't just take
Speaker 3: up the guitar and the band Billy Bremer is a
Speaker 3: lead guitarist. Yeah, so maybe you're not as fascile as
Speaker 3: he is in that regard.
Speaker 4: Definitely, I can't play anything like that. No, I'm a strummer.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I'm a pretty good strummer, you know, but I am
Speaker 4: a strummer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was playing lead and rhythm all at the
Speaker 3: same time.
Speaker 4: Ye, he's a really cracking guitar play.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just incredible. So behind the scenes of a
Speaker 3: lot of those records and Costello's records, I'm an engineer
Speaker 3: by trade, so please about Roger Akirion.
Speaker 4: He was fantastic. He was. He was He was very
Speaker 4: sort of square guy. He was suddenly thrust into this
Speaker 4: quite manic, you know, situation with this, certainly with the
Speaker 4: bands that I was working with. He was a great
Speaker 4: engineer and one of those guys who kept his head
Speaker 4: when everyone was, you know, sho talking at once and
Speaker 4: freaking out, you know, and and come on, let's do
Speaker 4: it now, you know. And people used to get very
Speaker 4: excited when we made records back then. And he was
Speaker 4: really great at running the really cool ship.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: He was a very kind of I suppose in a
Speaker 4: way that the stories you hear about George Martin, you know,
Speaker 4: and the beadles, he was George Martin was the sort
Speaker 4: of square guy. Roger wasn't old, you know, much older,
Speaker 4: and it was the same age as the rest of us.
Speaker 4: But he was a very moderating influence and a really
Speaker 4: great a really great engineer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I've stolen a lot of tricks from his records,
Speaker 3: just trying to figure out and study the engineering on
Speaker 3: the Costello records that you produced and your own records.
Speaker 3: I was working with Elvis on a song and I
Speaker 3: was treating his background vocals like it was armed forces,
Speaker 3: and he said, how'd you get that sound from? I said,
Speaker 3: just from figuring it out over the years. And I
Speaker 3: don't want to get too deep into talking about Elvis,
Speaker 3: even though you and I perhaps the two greatest producers
Speaker 3: of Elvis Costello albums, sitting in one room, finally, what
Speaker 3: was it like just to stand there and watch him
Speaker 3: make these masterpieces with your help? Of course his first
Speaker 3: five albums later, Blood and Chocolate. Did you know you
Speaker 3: were in the middle of something historical in rock and roll,
Speaker 3: And what was that experience like to be in the
Speaker 3: producer's chair for Armed Forces.
Speaker 4: Let's say I really didn't feel like that. It felt
Speaker 4: it felt totally just making records. Yeah, it seemed like
Speaker 4: everyone had an idea, you know, and there were so
Speaker 4: many people around at that time that we knew, Like
Speaker 4: Chrissy Chrissy Hind for instance, comes to mind. You know,
Speaker 4: Joe Jackson was recording when we were doing Armed Forces.
Speaker 4: Joe was in the daytime, he was in that in
Speaker 4: the Eden studios during the day when we crossed, he
Speaker 4: was doing that Better for Girls record with Richard Gothra,
Speaker 4: And it seemed like there were so many people had ideas,
Speaker 4: you know, and it seemed like this is Elvis's ideas.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I felt at that time very much like you had
Speaker 4: to serve your time in a sort of a holding pattern,
Speaker 4: waiting in obscurity, you know, doing shows and going up
Speaker 4: and going in the vans up and down the country
Speaker 4: and over to Germany and Holland that we used to
Speaker 4: play in Holland all the time, waiting for this kind
Speaker 4: of voice too. I mean, I don't know if you
Speaker 4: have this over here, but in the UK, in banks
Speaker 4: and the post office and things. You form a line waiting,
Speaker 4: you know, and and suddenly a voice comes, Cashier number five, please,
Speaker 4: and in this sort of irritating rise and fall voice,
Speaker 4: you know, and a voice, celestial voice says, Cashier.
Speaker 3: Number five, we have next.
Speaker 4: Okay, well next we'll do. But anyway, that's what it
Speaker 4: seemed like. And then your chance comes, and I felt
Speaker 4: I stepped up. I had my break, you know, my
Speaker 4: break turned up. And I if you hang around long enough,
Speaker 4: it will come to everyone. Everyone gets their break and
Speaker 4: what they do with it. Who knows?
Speaker 3: What are you considering your brick? Producing Miami is true
Speaker 3: or something like that.
Speaker 4: In the great scheme of things, it probably is. I mean,
Speaker 4: I did Graham Parker's album. That was the first thing
Speaker 4: I did, Howling Wind. It's the first thing I did.
Speaker 4: It could have been that. It might even have been
Speaker 4: when I got the call to join Brinsley Schwartz's group,
Speaker 4: which was called Kippington Lodge. Then, you know, it might
Speaker 4: have been when I got that call. But we did
Speaker 4: certainly did uh played out Jews? You know.
Speaker 3: It seems like multiple breaks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the but the they certainly I'd say Graham actually.
Speaker 3: Graham, Graham Parker and the rumor howling Wind between you
Speaker 3: and me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, a great cut, a great cut, yes,
Speaker 4: and a terrific song. Yeah, soulful song, yeah.
Speaker 3: He's very soulful.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: You and Elvis bots on Columbia at that time and
Speaker 3: Joe Jackson and Squeeze and the Police all on A
Speaker 3: and M. So was there any kind of competitiveness between
Speaker 3: what was going on with your scene at Columbia and
Speaker 3: these other quote unquote new wave artists that were doing
Speaker 3: it at A and M, with guys like John Wood
Speaker 3: and Joe Boyd, the engineer producers.
Speaker 4: For the Joe Boyd was was really a generation before,
Speaker 4: you know, he was like Pink Floyd and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he was. He was with that lot and he and
Speaker 4: also he did God was the name of the guy
Speaker 4: singer songwriter who Nick Drake? Yeah, Nick Drake of course. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he did a lot of folk rock stuff convention.
Speaker 3: John Wood though, was the younger one.
Speaker 4: Yeah he was. I can't remember who he He.
Speaker 3: Did all the Squeeze records, all the Squeeze records, yeah,
Speaker 3: of course. Yeah. But A and M seemed to have
Speaker 3: caught on to whatever you might want to call it,
Speaker 3: We're not going to ever.
Speaker 4: Get to we don't want to talk genres.
Speaker 3: Well, we're not going to now, unfortunately, we.
Speaker 4: Don't want to incur Elvis's displeasure.
Speaker 3: But yeah, A and M seemed to be hip to
Speaker 3: that as well. What do most people call it post punk?
Speaker 3: New wave come directly out of punk?
Speaker 4: I suppose it did, really, wasn't it. The punk thing
Speaker 4: was over pretty quick and lit of litter fuse onder.
Speaker 3: I think that's what we're taught is that new wave
Speaker 3: comes out of punk. But let's not go there. I
Speaker 3: have too many other questions for the amount of time.
Speaker 3: I'd rather ask you a couple more random questions, things
Speaker 3: that I've always been curious about. Something I also asked
Speaker 3: Elvis was why were you not at Do they know
Speaker 3: it's Christmas? I'm a huge fan of We're the World?
Speaker 3: And do they know it's Christmas? And I asked Elvis
Speaker 3: and he said, well, I was dreadfully unpopular at that moment,
Speaker 3: and nobody thought to call me basically.
Speaker 4: Oh is that what? He said? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Really, well, because Good Bride Cruel World had just come out. Yeah, whatever, No,
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, And he also said, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of a different scene. But seems like you should have
Speaker 3: been there were you called?
Speaker 4: No, No, not remotely. No. I never thought I would be,
Speaker 4: but because it's very kind of you to think that
Speaker 4: I might have had a call to go and do that,
Speaker 4: but I wasn't. Really, I've always had a bit of
Speaker 4: an rightly or wrongly, you know, I've always a bit
Speaker 4: of an aversion to that, oh we're all brothers in music,
Speaker 4: you know sort of stuff. I'd rather put a check
Speaker 4: in the post, you know.
Speaker 3: So what's what's your record collection?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Do you still have your records from from your life?
Speaker 4: I do, Yeah, I have, I have, but you know,
Speaker 4: my my real good pals all passed on, really, and
Speaker 4: so I don't. I used to have these great sort
Speaker 4: of dinner parties around at my house, or all male,
Speaker 4: all male dinner party. Is that we used to sit
Speaker 4: around sort of listening to our own records, and you know,
Speaker 4: and and others. Besides and because they're you know, because
Speaker 4: that they're gone, that doesn't really happen anymore. I listened
Speaker 4: to quite a lot of music now, but not really,
Speaker 4: you know, I've got sort of rows of dusty CDs
Speaker 4: you know, up there that I never I never listened
Speaker 4: to them anymore. I've got a really good STUF which
Speaker 4: is pretty much unused now. But I listened to lots
Speaker 4: of music, But like everybody else listen to it online,
Speaker 4: you know, they I just want to hear the tunes,
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of bathing in the sound of
Speaker 4: a vinyl you know, on huge speakers, you know, in
Speaker 4: a darkened room sounds. I wouldn't mind going round to
Speaker 4: somebody's house and having that experience, you know, for one off,
Speaker 4: but it's not something that I if I want to
Speaker 4: hear a record, I think it's quite handy just to
Speaker 4: be able to press a couple of buttons and how
Speaker 4: it comes of the out of your car radio, you know,
Speaker 4: even if it's not super high five. I just want
Speaker 4: to hear the tune, you know, and the lyric and
Speaker 4: the yeah sounds.
Speaker 3: Like you need to turn to all.
Speaker 4: How dare you No?
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, I have a record label and
Speaker 3: we're all analog, and so we do everything for the
Speaker 3: vinyl record at the end of the process.
Speaker 4: I have got vinyl but in boxes in my cellar
Speaker 4: boxes and boxes of vinyl records, but I haven't got
Speaker 4: a vinyl player. Yeah, I just thought I've just got
Speaker 4: a CD one when they came in, and that's where it's.
Speaker 4: That's all come to a grinding hole now, So I
Speaker 4: listened to missic online. Really I've painted a pretty desperate picture.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll get a truck and back it up to
Speaker 3: your dusty garage and take care of it for somebody
Speaker 3: who wrote a funny song called I Love my label.
Speaker 3: Outside of yeprak, what was your favorite or at least
Speaker 3: favorite experiences with different record labels over the years.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, well, I think probably my least favorite
Speaker 4: was We're Disappointing was Parlophone, which was Kippington Lodges label,
Speaker 4: which was the same label actually has appeared on the
Speaker 4: Beatles records because they were on Parlophone as well in
Speaker 4: the UK. So we were thrilled, you know, to be
Speaker 4: on Parlophone. But the deal, you know that all those
Speaker 4: bands like US, there was hundreds, they had hundreds of
Speaker 4: bands that they signed with. Deal was pitiful, really really pitiful,
Speaker 4: you know, like usury really. So we started off on
Speaker 4: Parlophone and after that we went to Liberty, which changed
Speaker 4: its name to United Artists. Right from there I went
Speaker 4: to Stiff and Stiff I went to Radar in the UK,
Speaker 4: which is another independent label, and Colombia, and then after
Speaker 4: that I went through a few of them very rapidly.
Speaker 4: Our Ca Warner Brothers, a Little Village I think we're
Speaker 4: on It might have been on Reprise.
Speaker 3: Was Little Village? Some take on the Traveling Wilbury's.
Speaker 4: Well, no, we had the same drama, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and it was a sort of not not in the
Speaker 4: same league, let's fa but you know it was a
Speaker 4: collection of faces, you know, sort of kind of second
Speaker 4: division faces.
Speaker 3: And you didn't mention f Beat and Demon, I've never
Speaker 3: known what those are? Are those labels?
Speaker 4: Yeah they were. They were run by the by Jake
Speaker 4: Riviera's labels, but Demon was essentially a reissue label they
Speaker 4: had they used, they'd buy up, you know, jazz and
Speaker 4: R and B records, you know.
Speaker 3: As they passed. Were you on Columbia before Elvis? Or
Speaker 3: was it?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 4: I was on Columbia really because of Elvis. Elvis sort
Speaker 4: of said if you sign me, you've got to sign
Speaker 4: Nick Lowe, you know, which is very nice of him.
Speaker 3: The Jake Riviera you keep mentioning he was the co
Speaker 3: founder of Steff with somebody named Dave Robinson, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: And Dave Robinson was the producer for all the Brinsley
Speaker 3: Schwartz records, Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, I can't remember him doing much producing, but
Speaker 4: he definitely sat in room.
Speaker 3: And so those two guys started a record label called Stuff,
Speaker 3: and you were the inn house producer for.
Speaker 4: That, purely because I'd been recording studio more than the
Speaker 4: other two.
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of studios, so it's Eden, your sort of
Speaker 3: favorite home of our time with regards to your cattle.
Speaker 4: It was a super studio. But I love Pathway, you
Speaker 4: know that where we recorded a lot of well aim
Speaker 4: is true, but a lot of other records that I
Speaker 4: think Sultan's have Swing was recorded in there. Maybe even
Speaker 4: Roxanne the Police for a while, everybody recorded in there.
Speaker 4: I love the sound of Breaking Glass. I recorded in
Speaker 4: their whole wide World New Rose, you know, the Damn's album,
Speaker 4: And it was a tiny, tiny, tiny little room, but
Speaker 4: it just had this fantastic sound. It was freezing cold
Speaker 4: in the winter and baking hot in the summer, so
Speaker 4: you wanted to get the job done pretty as quick
Speaker 4: as you could because you could get out of there.
Speaker 4: But it sounded fantastic.
Speaker 3: Can you please tell us the story sory of Curtis
Speaker 3: Steiger and the Bodyguard soundtrack. One of your most famous compositions,
Speaker 3: What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding, was covered
Speaker 3: and recorded by an artist named Curtis Steiger, and one
Speaker 3: way or another, for one reason or another, that song
Speaker 3: ended up on the Bodyguard soundtrack, a soundtrack which sold
Speaker 3: five b zillion copies back before streaming music, when people
Speaker 3: had to buy hard copies of things, and just the
Speaker 3: appearance of your composition, even though you weren't the one
Speaker 3: performing it, gave you some outrageous royalty check that bailed
Speaker 3: you out at a rough time and helped you continue.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can certainly tell you that I thought you
Speaker 4: were referring to something else.
Speaker 3: That should tell me the story. I don't.
Speaker 4: I'd have to. I'd have to tell you when the
Speaker 4: mics are off.
Speaker 3: Man, fair enough, you know, well, I'm asking you about
Speaker 3: the one that's well.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you with pleasure about Curtis. And this is
Speaker 4: what Curtis told me. Anyway he was on Arista.
Speaker 3: There you go, right, there's the label exactly.
Speaker 4: And anyway he was told by who was the head
Speaker 4: of Arista, Clive Davis. Clive Davis. Indeed, Clive Davis called
Speaker 4: Curtis in. They didn't kind of know or he didn't
Speaker 4: know quite what direction.
Speaker 3: To go in.
Speaker 4: He had he'd had a few hits, you know, but
Speaker 4: he was looking for a change. And Clive told him
Speaker 4: about this movie that they were planning to do starring
Speaker 4: Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner, and said, what you could
Speaker 4: start by doing is submitting some songs for this for
Speaker 4: this movie, because we've got high hopes for it. And
Speaker 4: Curtis said that he went in he had he had
Speaker 4: a few tunes. He went in there into the studio
Speaker 4: and they put down these tunes that he had, and
Speaker 4: whoever was overseeing it said, have you got anything else?
Speaker 4: Rather rather rudely. In my view, I think it's a
Speaker 4: bit bit rude to say that someone's submitting songs for
Speaker 4: their own compositions, you know, have you got anything else?
Speaker 4: And he said, well, no, not really, but but we
Speaker 4: have got this song that we've just started doing in
Speaker 4: our set, this Nick Lowe song called Peace, Love and Understanding.
Speaker 4: He said, all right, we'll bung that down. So he
Speaker 4: did that on the session and that's the one they
Speaker 4: picked to put in the movie, and as you were,
Speaker 4: as you say, it sold zillions and zillions, and my
Speaker 4: my cut as writer wasn't actually that much. But when
Speaker 4: it comes not very much multiplied by you know, zillion zillions,
Speaker 4: turnout turns out to be a very tasty check. Indeed.
Speaker 4: And as time went on, you know, as it got
Speaker 4: bigger and bigger and more and more, it sold one million,
Speaker 4: two million, three, I thought, now they please, you know,
Speaker 4: they can't go any higher than that. It was going eight, nine, ten,
Speaker 4: you know, it was going through the roof, and so
Speaker 4: eventually when he got up to about eight or nine
Speaker 4: million copies sold, I thought, well, I think I ought
Speaker 4: to extend the hand of friendship to this guy, you know.
Speaker 4: So I got into touch with him and said, Curtis,
Speaker 4: you know, God to say thanks, thanks ever so much.
Speaker 4: You know, I couldn't have come at a better time.
Speaker 4: And we and we became friends as a result of it.
Speaker 3: I know what you told them, here's what's so funny about.
Speaker 4: But anyway, I did say, Curtis, do you I'm sorry
Speaker 4: that they picked my tune, you know, and I do
Speaker 4: hope that you got some kind of something out of it,
Speaker 4: you know. And he said to me He didn't tell
Speaker 4: me what it was, but he said, don't worry. I
Speaker 4: was very well to can care of. So what what that?
Speaker 4: I never probed him further than that.
Speaker 3: Right, right, But that could be just a front end
Speaker 3: thing and no back end, and you know, who knows
Speaker 3: what it was.
Speaker 4: He tells me he's very happy.
Speaker 3: I'm happy for sleep at night. And that wasn't like
Speaker 3: the single or even like a big part of the movie.
Speaker 4: Just imagine the the guy who wrote the B side
Speaker 4: of the single, which also went on the album, an
Speaker 4: English guy called Adrian someone or other who was in
Speaker 4: a band so heavy metal band in the sixties called
Speaker 4: the Gun, and he wrote, so he had my cut,
Speaker 4: Plus he had the B side of Whitney's you know,
Speaker 4: can you imagine that I've never.
Speaker 3: Heard ally parton was making the money from that from
Speaker 3: from the.
Speaker 4: A side, from the A side. But nonetheless there was
Speaker 4: the A side had a B side on it, you know,
Speaker 4: so he got a double bubble.
Speaker 3: Really, there was no second single from the Bodyguard soundtrack
Speaker 3: that you could have been the B side on. Sadly
Speaker 3: not well, it just goes to show you, you know,
Speaker 3: what could happen with some song you wrote a long
Speaker 3: time ago you had written that song.
Speaker 4: Yeah, early seventies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, early seventies. So that's good. I have my
Speaker 3: one last question. Pinker and prouder than previous. I think
Speaker 3: it's my favorite, perhaps outside of one or two others.
Speaker 4: But that's that's great that you think that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, do you think that is?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 4: I was trying to record in a way that I
Speaker 4: couldn't persuade anyone was a good idea. I wanted to
Speaker 4: do this sort of low fi kind of thing. I
Speaker 4: couldn't get anyone to sort of help me with it,
Speaker 4: you know, So in some respects it worked, but I
Speaker 4: was groping my way to something that I got better
Speaker 4: at a little later.
Speaker 3: On recording live. Yes, yes, this is kind of blood
Speaker 3: and chocolatey. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I persuaded Elvis to have a go at
Speaker 4: doing that sort of thing on Blood and Chocolate.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that came first though, and then this was
Speaker 3: after that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think you're probably right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't know this one. Maybe it's just
Speaker 3: how soon after I discovered your music that I came
Speaker 3: across this. Maybe this was the first one that had
Speaker 3: come out since I had become a fan of that
Speaker 3: kind of thing.
Speaker 4: I'm really pleased that you that you think that.
Speaker 3: This is not considered one of your masterpieces.
Speaker 4: Said, I don't care consider any of them. Well, you know,
Speaker 4: nik Low masterpiece. I think that there are moments on
Speaker 4: that record.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are.
Speaker 4: I think there are moments on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're my wildest dream. One of my favorite songs
Speaker 3: by you, Crying in my Sleep maybe my second favorite
Speaker 3: song by you and Big Hair.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: In closing, September thirteenth is the release date for It's
Speaker 3: About to Say Indoor Fireworks Indoor Safari on yep Roc
Speaker 3: Records by the incredible Nick Low. So pleased and blessed
Speaker 3: to have you here today and to be able to
Speaker 3: spread the gospel of you as an artist, and your
Speaker 3: catalog is an incredible discography.
Speaker 4: It's very kind of you man. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to everybody involved in putting this together.
Speaker 3: From yep Roc and from the Wells said, I am
Speaker 3: Sugar Steve, and we will see you on the next
Speaker 3: go around. Thank you, Nick.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Because the stuff we do is simple, comes.
Speaker 4: Out, there's rock and roll cool. Thank you, thank you
Speaker 4: very much.
Speaker 5: There's no way you could write an up an up
Speaker 5: tempo item with three chords, and it doesn't come out
Speaker 5: as rock and roll.
Speaker 3: And foremost in my curiousness.
Speaker 4: That was a lovely and flattering introduction, by the way,
Speaker 4: and I like my curiousness.
Speaker 5: Can everyone remember the arrangement of it?
Speaker 4: All?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: Do I sound confused?
Speaker 5: It's the intro you do, however many bars it is.
Speaker 5: It's bang bang bam bang bang bang bamma bang bang
Speaker 5: bang bamm bang bang ban bang.
Speaker 3: Thank you Nick?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 3: Take you Nick? Thank you Nick, take you Nick? Thank
Speaker 3: you Nick, Thank you Nick, Thank you Nick, Thank you Nick,
Speaker 3: Thank you Nick.
Speaker 4: Nick, Well, thank thanks ever so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll take all never mind trying to get alight,
Speaker 2: I'll get it one more.
Speaker 4: Bush if it doesn't work.
Speaker 3: Quincy Jones told us on Question of Supreme that it's
Speaker 3: what you take out of the mix that will define
Speaker 3: the song. Less cannot only be more, it can be
Speaker 3: much more. However,