1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,920
Speaker 1: Previously on Quest Left Supreme with Johnny Maher, I'm going

2
00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: down this Nicolo rabbit hole. I'm about to interview Nicolo

3
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 1: for Quels. I heard in some interview that you're a

4
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,560
Speaker 1: fan of his, and I was just wondering where you

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,160
Speaker 1: caught onto that scene.

6
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 2: All musicians, certainly of a certain age, all regarding Nick

7
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 2: Lowe as a great man, a great musician. And when

8
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 2: I said earlier, when I was talking to Quest of

9
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,479
Speaker 2: about I left school t at fifteen to be in

10
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 2: a band with adults. That was to go to Nicklo's

11
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,600
Speaker 2: house and make demos for Elvis Costello's manager. That was

12
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 2: the first recording studio I was ever in, and I

13
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 2: was I think maybe he was in fourteen.

14
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 3: Jake Rivieira, Yeah, Jake.

15
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 2: Riviera called me one day when I came home from school.

16
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 4: I was still in my school uniform.

17
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 2: I thought it was one of my piles playing at

18
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 2: Frank one of my other piles had sent in a

19
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 2: tape of my band to Jake Riviera and.

20
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 3: He liked it for Stiff Records.

21
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing came of it, but it was a a

22
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: big experience for me because I'd never been in a

23
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 2: recording studio and I was in Nick Lowe's house.

24
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,960
Speaker 3: While we were there, Nick Lowe came.

25
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 4: Back from an American tour.

26
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 2: I didn't meet him, but I saw him. I saw

27
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 2: his cowboy boots wobbling up the stairs up to his

28
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:25,119
Speaker 2: bedroom honestly, very very unsteadily, and then heard a crash,

29
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 2: and then no.

30
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 4: One saw him for a few days.

31
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 2: But I then worked with him because Behind her first

32
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 2: single was produced by Nick low the first Pretender single,

33
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,759
Speaker 2: and because you knew I was a fan of Nick

34
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 2: Low When we went in the studio to do the

35
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,000
Speaker 2: only recording that I did with the Pretenders, we got

36
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 2: Nick Low to produce it. So I eventually got to

37
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 2: work with Nick low on a couple of songs and

38
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 2: we did it in one take, and Nick was like, hey, listen,

39
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 2: I know my reputation is that I just say one take,

40
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 2: but really the first take was the take, and we

41
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,600
Speaker 2: did it about four times and then he was right,

42
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 2: one takes.

43
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's cool, great.

44
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 3: Man, awesome, thanks for sharing that.

45
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: And now Sugar Steve's one on one interview with Nick Lowe,

46
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: is it two?

47
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,959
Speaker 3: Is the music too? Hours? Just as you were watching,

48
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 3: I was listening to one of the most incredible, simply

49
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 3: insane in nineteen seventy eight and every live version the

50
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 3: Power of So it goes like upon it. You have

51
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 3: many nicknames. In fact, nick is your name. But how

52
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 3: did you get the nickname the Basher? You're not Sir Basher.

53
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 4: At this point, No, no, no, a rise, Sir Basher.

54
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 4: That was doctor feel Good used to call me Basha.

55
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 4: And because my dad was in the Air Force. The

56
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 4: popular sort of story is that all the Air Force

57
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 4: guys used to have these rather silly nicknames, you know,

58
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 4: Biffo and Befo's bought it and you know that sort

59
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 4: of thing. And because my dad was in the Air Force,

60
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 4: that was then my nickname. But most people think it's

61
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,640
Speaker 4: because at the time. In one interview when I was

62
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 4: producing records, I said to the interview when I was

63
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:15,239
Speaker 4: asked about my technique, suppose technique that I had, I said, well,

64
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 4: what I do is I tend to bash it down

65
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,399
Speaker 4: and tart it up later. Tarting it up means sort

66
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 4: of prettying it up, you know, you know, record it

67
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 4: quickly and then you get a good feel, you know,

68
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 4: on the on the music. Then you put the hand

69
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 4: colaps as you say, and back in vocals and because

70
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 4: the feel is the important thing. But I used the

71
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 4: word bash it down and people thought that's where Basha

72
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 4: came from.

73
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 3: I always thought it was bashing on the drums and

74
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 3: the beast and oh a loud punk sound. So your

75
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 3: new album, I want to highlight this because it's great

76
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,839
Speaker 3: that there's a new album coming out from you, which

77
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,920
Speaker 3: comes out September thirteenth. Indoor Safari so so interesting the

78
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 3: story behind this album where where you're able to tour

79
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: a set of songs and then record the album once

80
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 3: you've worked them out on the road. It seems like

81
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 3: that's part of what happened here. And also some of

82
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 3: them were recorded previously as well, and you re recorded

83
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 3: them or added things. Is that right?

84
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 4: That is quite right. Yeah. We didn't have any plans

85
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,920
Speaker 4: to record at all when we first got together. We

86
00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,600
Speaker 4: got together to do Christmas shows in fact, and we

87
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 4: didn't know whether it would work, you know, or be

88
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 4: a success for the collaboration. But it turned out we

89
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 4: really enjoyed it, and as time went on and we

90
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 4: saw the audiences grow, it became apparent that it would

91
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 4: be well, it'd be a good idea to have some

92
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 4: sort of recording for sale on the merch table. We

93
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 4: had no ambitions really beyond that. And I suppose we

94
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,160
Speaker 4: could have knocked out an EP of covers, you know,

95
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 4: just three or four covers, but it didn't seem to

96
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,679
Speaker 4: be much fun in that, you know. And I'd started

97
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 4: writing songs with this collaboration in mind. But the problem

98
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,919
Speaker 4: we ran into was with this simple, simple music, it

99
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 4: only really comes together and gets a life after it's

100
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 4: been played in front of an audience. Then it gets

101
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 4: a personality and gets cool. But just going into studio

102
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 4: and knocking out a song, even a simple one, is well,

103
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 4: you can be done, you know, but it doesn't really

104
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,599
Speaker 4: sort of fly, you know. But anyway, we did our best.

105
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 4: The other thing is a recording studio. So we're sitting

106
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 4: in this lovely room here, which you can as soon

107
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,160
Speaker 4: as I walked in. You know, this is a familiar

108
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,240
Speaker 4: to me, the place like this. They're becoming rarer and

109
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 4: rarer and rarer. And yes, we're sitting in this lovely studio.

110
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 4: And even though with our group we've got a sort

111
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,359
Speaker 4: of modern sensibility about the way we want to present ourselves,

112
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 4: you know, as being grown ups, you know, but playing

113
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 4: this young people's music or young people for our generation. Anyway,

114
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 4: it's got a retro it's a retro vehicle for these songs.

115
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 4: And so that means you need a room like this

116
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,280
Speaker 4: really for us all to play live in because it's

117
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 4: not the sort of music you can do piecemeal, you know,

118
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 4: like most records have made on computers now they do

119
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,000
Speaker 4: the components are put down one at one at a time.

120
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 4: And with this sort of music we do it. You can't.

121
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,160
Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that doesn't sound any good. You know.

122
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 4: He's got he's got to be played live, and you

123
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,599
Speaker 4: need a room like this. Well, unfortunately most studios aren't.

124
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 4: They've all gone like this, have all gone, and most

125
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 4: pop music is made in little rooms with maybe two rooms,

126
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 4: one with a with a computer in and the other

127
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 4: one with a kidd of drums and some sort of keyboard.

128
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 4: And that's fair enough. But that's how we made these

129
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 4: these records because we'd have to we'd have to book

130
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,839
Speaker 4: a studio in one of the cities we were visiting

131
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 4: on our tour, you know, because I live in London,

132
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,719
Speaker 4: they live in the United States, and we never knew

133
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 4: what you going to get, but we'd cram into the

134
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 4: little room with the kid of drums in it and

135
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,920
Speaker 4: the synthesizer, you know, and do our best to play

136
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 4: these things. But so when yep Rock suggested that we

137
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 4: put these three four track CDs that we put on

138
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 4: the merch table, when they when they suggested that we

139
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 4: made a compilation album, I could see the wisdom in that.

140
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 4: But I've really thought we should revisit the tunes because

141
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 4: they were they were good tunes, and and I'm not

142
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 4: prolific enough to be able to just throw them away,

143
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 4: you know, and and come up with a brand spanking

144
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 4: new bunch. So I thought we should re record some

145
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 4: of these things. So it's almost like we released the

146
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 4: demos before the before the album.

147
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 3: But how'd you end up making the whole thing sounds

148
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 3: so cohesive, it doesn't sound like it was recorded in

149
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 3: various this or that.

150
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that you asked ask me that Steve

151
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 4: that is down to the Great Alex Hole, who is

152
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 4: someone I've ad move for a while. He's engineered and

153
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 4: produced some of my favorite records. He's got a studio

154
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 4: in Chicago, and he oversaw the re recording and plus

155
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 4: the new tune we did. I don't know, two or

156
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 4: three new tunes as well. It's down to him that

157
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 4: he gave all these tracks that were recorded over three

158
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 4: years this cohesive sound.

159
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 3: Secret weapon, I assume is those strait jackets for this record.

160
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there seems to be a real love

161
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 3: affair between you and that band, a mutual admiration type thing.

162
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 3: They do instrumental versions of your songs. You give them

163
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 3: a little mini set in the middle of your live

164
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,199
Speaker 3: show to do their thing. It's an incredible match really

165
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,240
Speaker 3: musically and texturally. I've seen your show with them a

166
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,000
Speaker 3: number of times and it puts me in a trance,

167
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 3: Like I get hypnotized watching them do their thing. They're

168
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 3: like a machine, but they're human, and there's this preciseness

169
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 3: to it all. But there's also this loess to it all,

170
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 3: which I assume is the best of well, exactly what

171
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 3: you're looking for in a backing band.

172
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I as I say, I didn't know it was

173
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 4: going to work. You know, it wasn't something i'd been

174
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 4: because I've known them for a long time, you know,

175
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 4: before we started working together, and I always thought they

176
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 4: were great, you know, But I didn't know that this

177
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 4: was going to happen, this strange thing where where the

178
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,199
Speaker 4: two of us create a third element.

179
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 3: You know, it works so well because they're doing their

180
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,680
Speaker 3: thing and then there you are sort of floating on

181
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,680
Speaker 3: top of it all with your vocal and your acoustic guitar,

182
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 3: and it works.

183
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 4: When we started, we had to start somewhere, of course,

184
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 4: and when we did our first show, we played at

185
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,480
Speaker 4: First Avenue, that club in Minneapolis, and the club owners

186
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 4: allowed us to rehearse there, you know, for a couple

187
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,160
Speaker 4: of days before our first show in the club, which

188
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 4: is very nice of them. And so we had to

189
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 4: start somewhere, you know, and you sent them a list

190
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 4: of songs I thought were good work along with the

191
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 4: Christmas songs. What you were doing, you know, some of

192
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,520
Speaker 4: my catalog tunes, and bless their hearts, you know, they'd

193
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,280
Speaker 4: learnt up the records as best they could, although there

194
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 4: are keyboards on a lot of my tunes, my early tunes,

195
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,439
Speaker 4: and they've done the best look to learn up the records.

196
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,559
Speaker 4: And that really lasted for about twenty minutes or something

197
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,400
Speaker 4: before we mutually agreed that we'll forget about that and

198
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 4: just make it up ourselves, you know, and just do

199
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 4: the song as if it was, We're hearing it for

200
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 4: the first time, and that's when it started getting in gear.

201
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 3: It's a regular Nickel album because all the songs are good.

202
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 3: I've been leaning into Blue on Blue. You've been playing

203
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 3: that as part of the live set as well. Trombone

204
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 3: is my favorite. It's one of those songs where it's like, ah,

205
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,679
Speaker 3: this dude just went and wrote a song called trombone,

206
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 3: you know, one of those things like how did nobody

207
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,680
Speaker 3: think of that? Yet? Of course there's no trombone in

208
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 3: the song. I believe there's two versions, yeah, one with

209
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 3: one that out. I don't know, but I'm a huge

210
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,079
Speaker 3: Roy Orbison fan. Was he any influence on you in

211
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,560
Speaker 3: your life or on that song at all?

212
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 4: Actually, what I sort of thought I was channeling was

213
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 4: Neil Diamond on that because it's sort of a trombone

214
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,679
Speaker 4: come play your song, so it seemed.

215
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 3: To I mean, I heard Nick Lowe, but that climactic ending.

216
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, I guess. So, yes, I can't quite

217
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 4: do it, you know exactly.

218
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,920
Speaker 3: You hit the Nick low version of that at the end.

219
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,160
Speaker 3: The first time I saw you or met you was

220
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 3: at David Letterman taping in two thousand and eight. I

221
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 3: think it must have been a Thursday when a show

222
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 3: does two shows. They were camera blocking or sound checking

223
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 3: both music acts that they were going to have to

224
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,839
Speaker 3: record that day. And turns out one was the Roots

225
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 3: and one was you, and you were probably promoting. At

226
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,200
Speaker 3: my age, I was on stage with the Roots setting

227
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 3: mics or whatever, and I look out to the audience.

228
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,560
Speaker 3: One person sitting in the audience, Nick Lowe. You know

229
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 3: how a fan thinks this is my chance.

230
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 2: You know.

231
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:21,199
Speaker 3: So I walk out there and I mutter something completely

232
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,040
Speaker 3: incoherent about the Bay City Rollers and have no idea

233
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 3: what you said, and I walked away. The second time

234
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,720
Speaker 3: I met you was at the Tonight show in twenty

235
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 3: twelve promoting this Old Magic, and you came into the

236
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 3: Roots rehearsal room and you signed a few records for me,

237
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,200
Speaker 3: and I muttered something incoherent about the Bay City Rollers.

238
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 3: More recently, backstage at a Costello show in twenty twenty

239
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 3: three last year, saw you backstage and muttered something incoherent

240
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 3: to you about the Bay City Rollers. So I am

241
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 3: a huge Bay City Rollers fan from back in the day,

242
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 3: and you have this connection to them, and I want

243
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 3: you to tell the story of b C Rollers We

244
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,959
Speaker 3: Love You and what that was all about. And then

245
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 3: I have sort of a production follow up question about

246
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 3: it about all that.

247
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,760
Speaker 4: Oh well, I hope this isn't going to sort of

248
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 4: burst your bubble, you know, because I'm not not a

249
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 4: particular Yes.

250
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 3: You are, I know you are. I'm here to get

251
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 3: you to admit it. That's what this is about. A. Yeah.

252
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 4: Well, after the group I was in, Brinsley Schwartz split up,

253
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 4: I was a bit of a loose end in terms

254
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 4: of what to do because by this time I'd fallen

255
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,679
Speaker 4: in with a guy called Jake Riviera, who was managed

256
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,719
Speaker 4: another band that we were friends, that Brinsleys were friends with.

257
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 4: And I started hanging out with Jake more and more,

258
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 4: and I'd stay stay over asleep on his couch, you know,

259
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,079
Speaker 4: and in his slightly grubby flat in South Kin, and

260
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 4: we both could feel something was coming over the hill,

261
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,319
Speaker 4: you know. We knew that something was up.

262
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,719
Speaker 3: It was like nineteen seventy six, yeah.

263
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 4: Seventy five, maybe seventy five, seventy six. We could sort

264
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 4: of feel it. And we had friends in New York

265
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 4: as well who were feeling the same way. What it

266
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 4: was was, this was the Punk Explosion, which came from

267
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,480
Speaker 4: New York. Really, I mean London did something else with it,

268
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 4: you know. But we could feel this change in the air,

269
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 4: and Jake started managing me and he couldn't get he

270
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 4: couldn't really get any anyone interested in me. So I

271
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 4: could get a record deal. I was still with a

272
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 4: United Artist then that's the Brinsley's label, and I sort

273
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 4: of had to get out of my contract with United

274
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 4: Artists in order to do something out go somewhere else.

275
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 4: And I thought what I should do is to make

276
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 4: a really terrible record and say that this is the

277
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 4: direction I want to go in, you know. So they

278
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 4: say all that we can't do that. So I came

279
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 4: up with this idea of doing this fan record for

280
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 4: the basity Rollers. I'm really sorry, Steve. I got to

281
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 4: tell you this, man, because I'm sorry. What I have

282
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 4: to tell you after this, Well, I came up with

283
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 4: this basicity Rollers, we love you, and I got a

284
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 4: few a few cats into to do the do the record,

285
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 4: and we got some the local kids school into to

286
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 4: sing in the chorus and handed it into United Artists

287
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 4: and instead of them saying that, oh well, thanks very much, Nick, goodbye,

288
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 4: they thought it was really good. Yes they did, and

289
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 4: so they you know, they wouldn't let they wouldn't let

290
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 4: me go. Allegedly they released it in Japan where the

291
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 4: where the basically Rollers were really big and and it

292
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 4: was quite a successful record. But I don't know how

293
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 4: true that is.

294
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, this was the first song you ever produced.

295
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 4: I think it probably was, actually yeah.

296
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So that being said, the production style that you

297
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 3: did in this novelty song, or however you want to

298
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 3: qualify it, you did a great job, first of all,

299
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 3: of making it sound like a basic a roller song,

300
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 3: as well as in the a later song called Rollers Show. Yeah,

301
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 3: what I'm asking you is, do you feel in the

302
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 3: making of that record that you might have stumbled upon

303
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,520
Speaker 3: something that helped to create your later production style or

304
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 3: the production style for a rock pile or for your

305
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 3: first couple solo albums. Let's say, did you find some

306
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 3: secret in there in the engineering or in the production

307
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 3: that maybe you liked, maybe in the arrangements. So my

308
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 3: question is was there anything you discovered that you carried

309
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 3: over into your regular productions.

310
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 4: It's a great question, you know, I've never thought about that,

311
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 4: but there I think there is some there sort of

312
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,120
Speaker 4: was because I was really.

313
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 3: Gotcha. We're all about gotcha journalism.

314
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 4: So it took me a long time to become friends

315
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:28,479
Speaker 4: with Dave Edmonds. He was always was a real loaner,

316
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 4: you know, and when I eventually got his attention, he

317
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 4: let me sit in in the studio and he was recording.

318
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 4: I loved his records, you know, and he used to

319
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,639
Speaker 4: do everything himself, and he would invite me into the

320
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 4: studio really as a as an audience, you know, of

321
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 4: one so and he wouldn't talk to me much, but

322
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,560
Speaker 4: I'd sit there and watch him, and then it's a

323
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 4: bit by bit, you know. He'd get me to go

324
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 4: and scratch a mic to see if it was on,

325
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 4: you know, or drop him in. You know. He used

326
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 4: to showed me how to drop in his guitar and

327
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,400
Speaker 4: he was doing guitar parts sitting at the desk, you know,

328
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 4: and then eventually go out and do a handclap, you know,

329
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 4: or go and sing a harmony. And bit by bit

330
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 4: we started doing it together in a way. But I

331
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 4: was very much the second class citizen, you know. He

332
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 4: did it all. But I watched him very carefully, and

333
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 4: he was fantastic in the studio, so you could do

334
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 4: this with analog equipment, as you definitely know that you

335
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 4: can make an analog recording equipment do stuff that it

336
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,199
Speaker 4: doesn't It shouldn't really be made to do which you

337
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 4: can't do on digital. Maybe you can, but I sound

338
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 4: it just protests in the most horrible way. You know,

339
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 4: it does not, whereas analog stuff doesn't. And he was

340
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 4: so great at playing the desk, you know, making the desk,

341
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,640
Speaker 4: mistreating it in some cases are the best sounds. Yeah,

342
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 4: he was a great influence on me. So when I

343
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 4: went to this studio to do that basically Rollers for

344
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 4: a start off, it was where all the London reggae

345
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 4: records were made, and that guy who engineered it was

346
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 4: the guy who engineered all these reggae records. So it

347
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 4: had a pretty cool sound. You know, the studio did

348
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 4: have a pretty cool sound, and I was also in

349
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 4: my bid to imitate the basicity Rollers for the purposes

350
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,360
Speaker 4: of that record. You know that some of their signature tropes.

351
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 4: You know, there was a style of British pop records

352
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 4: at the time, music that I didn't really like. It

353
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 4: was all the top ten stuff all had this sort

354
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 4: of sound and I was trying to imitate it. I

355
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 4: tried it out to see if I could do it

356
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 4: in the studio for this record, to see if I

357
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 4: could do a sort of mash up of the reggae

358
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 4: engineer with this basically roller sort of sheen, you know,

359
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 4: which it was the wrong studio to accomplish that, but

360
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 4: it was a little suggestion of it really. But then

361
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 4: I think in the future I started to get interested

362
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,719
Speaker 4: in doing anarchics, writing songs which were slightly unusual in

363
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 4: some way, but trying to put a sheme of respectability

364
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 4: on them, like this kind of corny pop sound, you know,

365
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 4: or my version of it. Anyway, I was trying to

366
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 4: be imitated. I didn't know really how to do it,

367
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 4: but I've never I've never thought of it. Do you

368
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 4: ask me that question?

369
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you can do corny things as as

370
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 3: long as you do them in a cool way sort of.

371
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so you go, you know, what the hell

372
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 4: is this kind of music?

373
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: Right?

374
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 3: And well, what the hell kind of music was it?

375
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: You know?

376
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 3: The basically roles they seem to be doing their own

377
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 3: version of like a retro thing.

378
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 4: I think that was their producers, you know, I think

379
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 4: I think they did what they were told, you know, not.

380
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 3: Writing to be honest with you basic roles. We love

381
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 3: You does sound like a novelty song, but Roller Show

382
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 3: sounds like just a kick ass song, especially the way

383
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: it was recorded. But since you segued a little bit

384
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 3: into Dave Edmonds, you must be considered one of your

385
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 3: musical soul meats. But I wanted just for a second

386
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 3: Terry Williams and Billy Bremner. Can you please tell us

387
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 3: a little bit more about the lesson two of that band,

388
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 3: Billy Bremner on guitar and vocals and Terry Williams on drums.

389
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 4: Yes, with pleasure.

390
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

391
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 4: They By the sort of mid nineteen seventies, Dave and

392
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 4: I had become more equal, actual friends. You know, I

393
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 4: wasn't just this kid who went and tea boy tea boy,

394
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. Yeah, So we were more friends and we

395
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 4: used to you know, I was sort of effectively out

396
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 4: of work really, but we used to and Dave lived

397
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 4: in North London. But in between us was this pub

398
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 4: called the Churchill on Church Street, Kensington. Maybe some of

399
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 4: your listeners will know it's quite a well known pub

400
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 4: and we used to meet there just about every evening

401
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,360
Speaker 4: and have a drink or two, and we would discuss

402
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 4: the possibility of putting a group together. Well, Edmunds was

403
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 4: absolutely dead set against it. He said, I've done all that,

404
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 4: you know, I was in bands, you know, I don't

405
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 4: want to be in a band anymore. Until he'd had

406
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 4: a couple of beers and then he'd start changing his

407
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 4: mind about it, you know, and then he said, well,

408
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 4: who if we did, If we did, who would we get.

409
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: So I had a couple of ideas about people, you know,

410
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 4: who could maybe approach, and he didn't think much of

411
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 4: my ideas. But Terry Williams was the guy who first

412
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 4: he was Welsh, also as Dave was Welsh, and he

413
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 4: played with a band called Man who were kind of

414
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 4: I was just thinking there was like a kind of

415
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 4: San Francisco group, you know. They were like Moby Grape

416
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: or Quicksilver Messenger Service or one of those kinds of geah.

417
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 4: Oh no, they were terrific. Man were great, but Terry

418
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 4: was something really something, you know. But they were very

419
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 4: very tight. Those guys were really really tight. And I said, well,

420
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 4: Terry's not going to leave Man, and he said and

421
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 4: Dave said, no, he's not so therefore we let's stop

422
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 4: thinking about it, you know. But anyway Terry did. So

423
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 4: suddenly we had a drummer and we approached Terry and

424
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 4: he was keen. And then Edmund said, well we aren't.

425
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 4: There's no who are we going to get to play guitar,

426
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 4: and no one knows how to play any decent guitar,

427
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: you know. And then he went to see this group

428
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 4: one night. They were a sort of pub group really

429
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 4: called Fatso and and they were cad of sort of

430
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: a comedy group really, but he said, they've got they've

431
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 4: got a fantastic guitar place. And he can see he

432
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 4: got really vibe up about it. And it was actually

433
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 4: Billy who made Edmonds agree to put this band together.

434
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 4: They've fantastic you know. Terry is really unbelieve. Unfortunately he

435
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 4: doesn't play anymore.

436
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, Billy Bremner.

437
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 4: Billy does. In fact, Billy plays in He lives in

438
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 4: Sweden now and he plays with a sort of rock

439
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 4: Pile tribute group called the rock Files or something, and

440
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 4: they they they tore it. Actually they've sound sort of

441
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 4: more like rock Pile than rock Pile.

442
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: Many things I noticed about rock Pile, but something interesting.

443
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: There's no keyboards in Rock Pile, just like those Street Jackets,

444
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: and you see some obvious similarities between those two bands.

445
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 4: I didn't, but I sort of do now.

446
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: The precision of it are and the looseness, like I

447
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: said earlier, and rock and rollness of it.

448
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, they're quite different players, but in the respect

449
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 4: you just mentioned that there's a lot of similarities. I'm

450
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 4: a file fezer vox guy, you know, organ I prefer

451
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 4: I love that sort of sound when a keyboard is needed,

452
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: you know, in that era, and a piano of course,

453
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 4: but I don't want to sound like a ludd eye,

454
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: you know. I don't mind plugging in a synthesizer, you know,

455
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 4: and fiddling around nidio. Well not for too long. There's

456
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 4: something about just a guitar group and trying to imitate

457
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 4: a keyboard, getting a part that it will imitate a

458
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: keyboard to suggest a keyboard part that is more fun

459
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: in a way, and it's quite liberating.

460
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: You know. I think Rock Pile is vastly unheralded as

461
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: a kick ass band, as one of the great bands,

462
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: because you guys are locked in. It seems like you

463
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: all knew exactly what to do to create what you

464
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: were trying to create. How come you didn't just take

465
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 3: up the guitar and the band Billy Bremer is a

466
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: lead guitarist. Yeah, so maybe you're not as fascile as

467
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: he is in that regard.

468
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 4: Definitely, I can't play anything like that. No, I'm a strummer.

469
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: You know.

470
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: I'm a pretty good strummer, you know, but I am

471
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: a strummer.

472
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was playing lead and rhythm all at the

473
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 3: same time.

474
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 4: Ye, he's a really cracking guitar play.

475
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just incredible. So behind the scenes of a

476
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 3: lot of those records and Costello's records, I'm an engineer

477
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: by trade, so please about Roger Akirion.

478
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 4: He was fantastic. He was. He was He was very

479
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: sort of square guy. He was suddenly thrust into this

480
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 4: quite manic, you know, situation with this, certainly with the

481
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 4: bands that I was working with. He was a great

482
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 4: engineer and one of those guys who kept his head

483
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: when everyone was, you know, sho talking at once and

484
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: freaking out, you know, and and come on, let's do

485
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 4: it now, you know. And people used to get very

486
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 4: excited when we made records back then. And he was

487
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 4: really great at running the really cool ship.

488
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: You know.

489
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 4: He was a very kind of I suppose in a

490
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: way that the stories you hear about George Martin, you know,

491
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: and the beadles, he was George Martin was the sort

492
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 4: of square guy. Roger wasn't old, you know, much older,

493
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: and it was the same age as the rest of us.

494
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 4: But he was a very moderating influence and a really

495
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 4: great a really great engineer.

496
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I've stolen a lot of tricks from his records,

497
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 3: just trying to figure out and study the engineering on

498
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 3: the Costello records that you produced and your own records.

499
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: I was working with Elvis on a song and I

500
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: was treating his background vocals like it was armed forces,

501
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: and he said, how'd you get that sound from? I said,

502
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: just from figuring it out over the years. And I

503
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: don't want to get too deep into talking about Elvis,

504
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: even though you and I perhaps the two greatest producers

505
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: of Elvis Costello albums, sitting in one room, finally, what

506
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 3: was it like just to stand there and watch him

507
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: make these masterpieces with your help? Of course his first

508
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: five albums later, Blood and Chocolate. Did you know you

509
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: were in the middle of something historical in rock and roll,

510
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 3: And what was that experience like to be in the

511
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: producer's chair for Armed Forces.

512
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: Let's say I really didn't feel like that. It felt

513
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: it felt totally just making records. Yeah, it seemed like

514
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 4: everyone had an idea, you know, and there were so

515
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 4: many people around at that time that we knew, Like

516
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: Chrissy Chrissy Hind for instance, comes to mind. You know,

517
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 4: Joe Jackson was recording when we were doing Armed Forces.

518
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,239
Speaker 4: Joe was in the daytime, he was in that in

519
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 4: the Eden studios during the day when we crossed, he

520
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 4: was doing that Better for Girls record with Richard Gothra,

521
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 4: And it seemed like there were so many people had ideas,

522
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: you know, and it seemed like this is Elvis's ideas.

523
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: You know.

524
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: I felt at that time very much like you had

525
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 4: to serve your time in a sort of a holding pattern,

526
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 4: waiting in obscurity, you know, doing shows and going up

527
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: and going in the vans up and down the country

528
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 4: and over to Germany and Holland that we used to

529
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 4: play in Holland all the time, waiting for this kind

530
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 4: of voice too. I mean, I don't know if you

531
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: have this over here, but in the UK, in banks

532
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 4: and the post office and things. You form a line waiting,

533
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 4: you know, and and suddenly a voice comes, Cashier number five, please,

534
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 4: and in this sort of irritating rise and fall voice,

535
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: you know, and a voice, celestial voice says, Cashier.

536
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: Number five, we have next.

537
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 4: Okay, well next we'll do. But anyway, that's what it

538
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 4: seemed like. And then your chance comes, and I felt

539
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 4: I stepped up. I had my break, you know, my

540
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: break turned up. And I if you hang around long enough,

541
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: it will come to everyone. Everyone gets their break and

542
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 4: what they do with it. Who knows?

543
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: What are you considering your brick? Producing Miami is true

544
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: or something like that.

545
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 4: In the great scheme of things, it probably is. I mean,

546
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 4: I did Graham Parker's album. That was the first thing

547
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 4: I did, Howling Wind. It's the first thing I did.

548
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: It could have been that. It might even have been

549
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 4: when I got the call to join Brinsley Schwartz's group,

550
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: which was called Kippington Lodge. Then, you know, it might

551
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 4: have been when I got that call. But we did

552
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 4: certainly did uh played out Jews? You know.

553
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: It seems like multiple breaks.

554
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the but the they certainly I'd say Graham actually.

555
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 3: Graham, Graham Parker and the rumor howling Wind between you

556
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: and me.

557
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, a great cut, a great cut, yes,

558
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: and a terrific song. Yeah, soulful song, yeah.

559
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: He's very soulful.

560
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

561
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: You and Elvis bots on Columbia at that time and

562
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: Joe Jackson and Squeeze and the Police all on A

563
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: and M. So was there any kind of competitiveness between

564
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: what was going on with your scene at Columbia and

565
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 3: these other quote unquote new wave artists that were doing

566
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: it at A and M, with guys like John Wood

567
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: and Joe Boyd, the engineer producers.

568
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 4: For the Joe Boyd was was really a generation before,

569
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 4: you know, he was like Pink Floyd and stuff like that. Yeah,

570
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 4: he was. He was with that lot and he and

571
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 4: also he did God was the name of the guy

572
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 4: singer songwriter who Nick Drake? Yeah, Nick Drake of course. Yeah,

573
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: he did a lot of folk rock stuff convention.

574
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: John Wood though, was the younger one.

575
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 4: Yeah he was. I can't remember who he He.

576
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: Did all the Squeeze records, all the Squeeze records, yeah,

577
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: of course. Yeah. But A and M seemed to have

578
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: caught on to whatever you might want to call it,

579
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: We're not going to ever.

580
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 4: Get to we don't want to talk genres.

581
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: Well, we're not going to now, unfortunately, we.

582
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: Don't want to incur Elvis's displeasure.

583
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, A and M seemed to be hip to

584
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: that as well. What do most people call it post punk?

585
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: New wave come directly out of punk?

586
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 4: I suppose it did, really, wasn't it. The punk thing

587
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: was over pretty quick and lit of litter fuse onder.

588
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: I think that's what we're taught is that new wave

589
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: comes out of punk. But let's not go there. I

590
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: have too many other questions for the amount of time.

591
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: I'd rather ask you a couple more random questions, things

592
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: that I've always been curious about. Something I also asked

593
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 3: Elvis was why were you not at Do they know

594
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: it's Christmas? I'm a huge fan of We're the World?

595
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: And do they know it's Christmas? And I asked Elvis

596
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: and he said, well, I was dreadfully unpopular at that moment,

597
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: and nobody thought to call me basically.

598
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: Oh is that what? He said? Yeah?

599
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: Really, well, because Good Bride Cruel World had just come out. Yeah, whatever, No,

600
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, And he also said, you know, kind

601
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: of a different scene. But seems like you should have

602
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: been there were you called?

603
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 4: No, No, not remotely. No. I never thought I would be,

604
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: but because it's very kind of you to think that

605
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: I might have had a call to go and do that,

606
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 4: but I wasn't. Really, I've always had a bit of

607
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: an rightly or wrongly, you know, I've always a bit

608
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: of an aversion to that, oh we're all brothers in music,

609
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 4: you know sort of stuff. I'd rather put a check

610
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: in the post, you know.

611
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 3: So what's what's your record collection?

612
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: Like?

613
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: Do you still have your records from from your life?

614
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 4: I do, Yeah, I have, I have, but you know,

615
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 4: my my real good pals all passed on, really, and

616
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: so I don't. I used to have these great sort

617
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: of dinner parties around at my house, or all male,

618
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 4: all male dinner party. Is that we used to sit

619
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 4: around sort of listening to our own records, and you know,

620
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 4: and and others. Besides and because they're you know, because

621
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: that they're gone, that doesn't really happen anymore. I listened

622
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 4: to quite a lot of music now, but not really,

623
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: you know, I've got sort of rows of dusty CDs

624
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 4: you know, up there that I never I never listened

625
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 4: to them anymore. I've got a really good STUF which

626
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 4: is pretty much unused now. But I listened to lots

627
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 4: of music, But like everybody else listen to it online,

628
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 4: you know, they I just want to hear the tunes,

629
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of bathing in the sound of

630
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 4: a vinyl you know, on huge speakers, you know, in

631
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 4: a darkened room sounds. I wouldn't mind going round to

632
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 4: somebody's house and having that experience, you know, for one off,

633
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 4: but it's not something that I if I want to

634
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 4: hear a record, I think it's quite handy just to

635
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 4: be able to press a couple of buttons and how

636
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 4: it comes of the out of your car radio, you know,

637
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 4: even if it's not super high five. I just want

638
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 4: to hear the tune, you know, and the lyric and

639
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 4: the yeah sounds.

640
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 3: Like you need to turn to all.

641
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 4: How dare you No?

642
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, I have a record label and

643
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: we're all analog, and so we do everything for the

644
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 3: vinyl record at the end of the process.

645
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 4: I have got vinyl but in boxes in my cellar

646
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 4: boxes and boxes of vinyl records, but I haven't got

647
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 4: a vinyl player. Yeah, I just thought I've just got

648
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 4: a CD one when they came in, and that's where it's.

649
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 4: That's all come to a grinding hole now, So I

650
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 4: listened to missic online. Really I've painted a pretty desperate picture.

651
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll get a truck and back it up to

652
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 3: your dusty garage and take care of it for somebody

653
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 3: who wrote a funny song called I Love my label.

654
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: Outside of yeprak, what was your favorite or at least

655
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: favorite experiences with different record labels over the years.

656
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, well, I think probably my least favorite

657
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 4: was We're Disappointing was Parlophone, which was Kippington Lodges label,

658
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: which was the same label actually has appeared on the

659
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: Beatles records because they were on Parlophone as well in

660
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 4: the UK. So we were thrilled, you know, to be

661
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: on Parlophone. But the deal, you know that all those

662
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 4: bands like US, there was hundreds, they had hundreds of

663
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 4: bands that they signed with. Deal was pitiful, really really pitiful,

664
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 4: you know, like usury really. So we started off on

665
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 4: Parlophone and after that we went to Liberty, which changed

666
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 4: its name to United Artists. Right from there I went

667
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 4: to Stiff and Stiff I went to Radar in the UK,

668
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 4: which is another independent label, and Colombia, and then after

669
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 4: that I went through a few of them very rapidly.

670
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 4: Our Ca Warner Brothers, a Little Village I think we're

671
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: on It might have been on Reprise.

672
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 3: Was Little Village? Some take on the Traveling Wilbury's.

673
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 4: Well, no, we had the same drama, of course. Yeah,

674
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: and it was a sort of not not in the

675
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: same league, let's fa but you know it was a

676
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 4: collection of faces, you know, sort of kind of second

677
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: division faces.

678
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: And you didn't mention f Beat and Demon, I've never

679
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 3: known what those are? Are those labels?

680
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: Yeah they were. They were run by the by Jake

681
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 4: Riviera's labels, but Demon was essentially a reissue label they

682
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 4: had they used, they'd buy up, you know, jazz and

683
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: R and B records, you know.

684
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: As they passed. Were you on Columbia before Elvis? Or

685
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 3: was it?

686
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: So?

687
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 4: I was on Columbia really because of Elvis. Elvis sort

688
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 4: of said if you sign me, you've got to sign

689
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: Nick Lowe, you know, which is very nice of him.

690
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: The Jake Riviera you keep mentioning he was the co

691
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: founder of Steff with somebody named Dave Robinson, Yes, yeah,

692
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: And Dave Robinson was the producer for all the Brinsley

693
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: Schwartz records, Is that right?

694
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, I can't remember him doing much producing, but

695
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 4: he definitely sat in room.

696
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 3: And so those two guys started a record label called Stuff,

697
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 3: and you were the inn house producer for.

698
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: That, purely because I'd been recording studio more than the

699
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 4: other two.

700
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of studios, so it's Eden, your sort of

701
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 3: favorite home of our time with regards to your cattle.

702
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 4: It was a super studio. But I love Pathway, you

703
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 4: know that where we recorded a lot of well aim

704
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 4: is true, but a lot of other records that I

705
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 4: think Sultan's have Swing was recorded in there. Maybe even

706
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: Roxanne the Police for a while, everybody recorded in there.

707
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 4: I love the sound of Breaking Glass. I recorded in

708
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 4: their whole wide World New Rose, you know, the Damn's album,

709
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 4: And it was a tiny, tiny, tiny little room, but

710
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: it just had this fantastic sound. It was freezing cold

711
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: in the winter and baking hot in the summer, so

712
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 4: you wanted to get the job done pretty as quick

713
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 4: as you could because you could get out of there.

714
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 4: But it sounded fantastic.

715
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: Can you please tell us the story sory of Curtis

716
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: Steiger and the Bodyguard soundtrack. One of your most famous compositions,

717
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding, was covered

718
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 3: and recorded by an artist named Curtis Steiger, and one

719
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 3: way or another, for one reason or another, that song

720
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: ended up on the Bodyguard soundtrack, a soundtrack which sold

721
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: five b zillion copies back before streaming music, when people

722
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: had to buy hard copies of things, and just the

723
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 3: appearance of your composition, even though you weren't the one

724
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: performing it, gave you some outrageous royalty check that bailed

725
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: you out at a rough time and helped you continue.

726
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can certainly tell you that I thought you

727
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 4: were referring to something else.

728
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: That should tell me the story. I don't.

729
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 4: I'd have to. I'd have to tell you when the

730
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: mics are off.

731
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 3: Man, fair enough, you know, well, I'm asking you about

732
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 3: the one that's well.

733
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: I'll tell you with pleasure about Curtis. And this is

734
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: what Curtis told me. Anyway he was on Arista.

735
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: There you go, right, there's the label exactly.

736
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: And anyway he was told by who was the head

737
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 4: of Arista, Clive Davis. Clive Davis. Indeed, Clive Davis called

738
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 4: Curtis in. They didn't kind of know or he didn't

739
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: know quite what direction.

740
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: To go in.

741
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 4: He had he'd had a few hits, you know, but

742
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 4: he was looking for a change. And Clive told him

743
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 4: about this movie that they were planning to do starring

744
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner, and said, what you could

745
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: start by doing is submitting some songs for this for

746
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 4: this movie, because we've got high hopes for it. And

747
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: Curtis said that he went in he had he had

748
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: a few tunes. He went in there into the studio

749
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 4: and they put down these tunes that he had, and

750
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 4: whoever was overseeing it said, have you got anything else?

751
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: Rather rather rudely. In my view, I think it's a

752
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: bit bit rude to say that someone's submitting songs for

753
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: their own compositions, you know, have you got anything else?

754
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 4: And he said, well, no, not really, but but we

755
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 4: have got this song that we've just started doing in

756
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 4: our set, this Nick Lowe song called Peace, Love and Understanding.

757
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 4: He said, all right, we'll bung that down. So he

758
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 4: did that on the session and that's the one they

759
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,959
Speaker 4: picked to put in the movie, and as you were,

760
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 4: as you say, it sold zillions and zillions, and my

761
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 4: my cut as writer wasn't actually that much. But when

762
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: it comes not very much multiplied by you know, zillion zillions,

763
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 4: turnout turns out to be a very tasty check. Indeed.

764
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 4: And as time went on, you know, as it got

765
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: bigger and bigger and more and more, it sold one million,

766
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: two million, three, I thought, now they please, you know,

767
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 4: they can't go any higher than that. It was going eight, nine, ten,

768
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 4: you know, it was going through the roof, and so

769
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 4: eventually when he got up to about eight or nine

770
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 4: million copies sold, I thought, well, I think I ought

771
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 4: to extend the hand of friendship to this guy, you know.

772
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 4: So I got into touch with him and said, Curtis,

773
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 4: you know, God to say thanks, thanks ever so much.

774
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 4: You know, I couldn't have come at a better time.

775
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 4: And we and we became friends as a result of it.

776
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 3: I know what you told them, here's what's so funny about.

777
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 4: But anyway, I did say, Curtis, do you I'm sorry

778
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: that they picked my tune, you know, and I do

779
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 4: hope that you got some kind of something out of it,

780
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 4: you know. And he said to me He didn't tell

781
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 4: me what it was, but he said, don't worry. I

782
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 4: was very well to can care of. So what what that?

783
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 4: I never probed him further than that.

784
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 3: Right, right, But that could be just a front end

785
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 3: thing and no back end, and you know, who knows

786
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: what it was.

787
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 4: He tells me he's very happy.

788
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: I'm happy for sleep at night. And that wasn't like

789
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 3: the single or even like a big part of the movie.

790
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 4: Just imagine the the guy who wrote the B side

791
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 4: of the single, which also went on the album, an

792
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 4: English guy called Adrian someone or other who was in

793
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 4: a band so heavy metal band in the sixties called

794
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 4: the Gun, and he wrote, so he had my cut,

795
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 4: Plus he had the B side of Whitney's you know,

796
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 4: can you imagine that I've never.

797
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: Heard ally parton was making the money from that from

798
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: from the.

799
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 4: A side, from the A side. But nonetheless there was

800
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 4: the A side had a B side on it, you know,

801
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 4: so he got a double bubble.

802
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 3: Really, there was no second single from the Bodyguard soundtrack

803
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: that you could have been the B side on. Sadly

804
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: not well, it just goes to show you, you know,

805
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: what could happen with some song you wrote a long

806
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 3: time ago you had written that song.

807
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, early seventies.

808
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, early seventies. So that's good. I have my

809
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: one last question. Pinker and prouder than previous. I think

810
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 3: it's my favorite, perhaps outside of one or two others.

811
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 4: But that's that's great that you think that.

812
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, do you think that is?

813
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: Well?

814
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 4: I was trying to record in a way that I

815
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 4: couldn't persuade anyone was a good idea. I wanted to

816
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 4: do this sort of low fi kind of thing. I

817
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 4: couldn't get anyone to sort of help me with it,

818
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 4: you know, So in some respects it worked, but I

819
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 4: was groping my way to something that I got better

820
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 4: at a little later.

821
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 3: On recording live. Yes, yes, this is kind of blood

822
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 3: and chocolatey. Yeah.

823
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I persuaded Elvis to have a go at

824
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: doing that sort of thing on Blood and Chocolate.

825
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that came first though, and then this was

826
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 3: after that. Yeah.

827
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 4: I think you're probably right.

828
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't know this one. Maybe it's just

829
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 3: how soon after I discovered your music that I came

830
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 3: across this. Maybe this was the first one that had

831
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 3: come out since I had become a fan of that

832
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

833
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 4: I'm really pleased that you that you think that.

834
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 3: This is not considered one of your masterpieces.

835
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 4: Said, I don't care consider any of them. Well, you know,

836
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 4: nik Low masterpiece. I think that there are moments on

837
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 4: that record.

838
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are.

839
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: I think there are moments on it.

840
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're my wildest dream. One of my favorite songs

841
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: by you, Crying in my Sleep maybe my second favorite

842
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: song by you and Big Hair.

843
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

844
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: In closing, September thirteenth is the release date for It's

845
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 3: About to Say Indoor Fireworks Indoor Safari on yep Roc

846
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: Records by the incredible Nick Low. So pleased and blessed

847
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: to have you here today and to be able to

848
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 3: spread the gospel of you as an artist, and your

849
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 3: catalog is an incredible discography.

850
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 4: It's very kind of you man. Thank you.

851
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to everybody involved in putting this together.

852
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: From yep Roc and from the Wells said, I am

853
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 3: Sugar Steve, and we will see you on the next

854
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: go around. Thank you, Nick.

855
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: Thank you.

856
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 5: Because the stuff we do is simple, comes.

857
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 4: Out, there's rock and roll cool. Thank you, thank you

858
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 4: very much.

859
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 5: There's no way you could write an up an up

860
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 5: tempo item with three chords, and it doesn't come out

861
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 5: as rock and roll.

862
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 3: And foremost in my curiousness.

863
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,959
Speaker 4: That was a lovely and flattering introduction, by the way,

864
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 4: and I like my curiousness.

865
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 5: Can everyone remember the arrangement of it?

866
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 4: All?

867
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 5: Right?

868
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 3: Do I sound confused?

869
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 5: It's the intro you do, however many bars it is.

870
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 5: It's bang bang bam bang bang bang bamma bang bang

871
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 5: bang bamm bang bang ban bang.

872
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 3: Thank you Nick?

873
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: Is that?

874
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: Take you Nick? Thank you Nick, take you Nick? Thank

875
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: you Nick, Thank you Nick, Thank you Nick, Thank you Nick,

876
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 3: Thank you Nick.

877
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 4: Nick, Well, thank thanks ever so much.

878
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 3: Thank you, appreciate it.

879
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll take all never mind trying to get alight,

880
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 2: I'll get it one more.

881
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 4: Bush if it doesn't work.

882
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 3: Quincy Jones told us on Question of Supreme that it's

883
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: what you take out of the mix that will define

884
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 3: the song. Less cannot only be more, it can be

885
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: much more. However,