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Speaker 2: I lost myself even when I was behind the mic
Speaker 2: singing it. There was no smile on my face. It
Speaker 2: was me against everyone else in the music industry. The
Speaker 2: next guest is taking America by storm, Clocking upstairs and
Speaker 2: huge hit Baby.
Speaker 1: Are you down, Down, Down, Down Down, Jay Sean.
Speaker 2: I would get my car and just cry because I
Speaker 2: was so lost and so scared. Who else gets a
Speaker 2: major record deal and then walks away from him?
Speaker 1: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
Speaker 1: you to join this community to hear more interviews that
Speaker 1: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All
Speaker 1: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
Speaker 1: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,
Speaker 1: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go
Speaker 1: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.
Speaker 1: It means the world to me, the best selling author
Speaker 1: on the most the number one health and wellness.
Speaker 2: Podcast and Purpose with Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one
Speaker 1: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every
Speaker 1: one of you that come back every week to listen,
Speaker 1: learn and grow. Now, one of my favorite things about
Speaker 1: this platform is I get to sit down with friends
Speaker 1: who are change makers, incredible influencers doing amazing things in
Speaker 1: the world. But I have this behind the scenes friendship
Speaker 1: with them, and I get to hang with them. I
Speaker 1: get to invite you all into a genuine, truthful conversation,
Speaker 1: a sincere conversation that we probably have had at dinners
Speaker 1: and when we're hanging out, but then we get to
Speaker 1: record it and share it with all of you. And
Speaker 1: today's guest is someone that I was a fan of
Speaker 1: ever since I was in my teens. I remember when
Speaker 1: his first song that I discovered him through dropped and
Speaker 1: it literally felt like it changed culture for me and
Speaker 1: my friends, and we knew what we wanted to play,
Speaker 1: we knew what we wanted to listen to. We were
Speaker 1: sharing it with all our friends. And to watch his
Speaker 1: career from Afar rise in the way that it did
Speaker 1: and the changes that he's made, the moves that he's made,
Speaker 1: was phenomenal for little Jay aged fourteen and beyond there.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking about British Indian singer songwriter Jay Sean, who
Speaker 1: emerged in the American pop music scene a decade ago
Speaker 1: with his Billboard Hot one hundred number one single Down
Speaker 1: the Pop Music Titan changed the game stateside for both
Speaker 1: Asian and UK acts alike, hitting historical strides and breaking
Speaker 1: down multiple doors as a solo artist, Jay was the
Speaker 1: first Asian artist in history to have a Billboard number
Speaker 1: one in America. He was also the first Asian and
Speaker 1: first British artist to have two simultaneous top ten Billboard singles.
Speaker 1: Jay's also the first British and first Asian artist to
Speaker 1: have a Spanish language number one in America. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show, my good friend and amazing human, Jay Sean.
Speaker 2: Bro. Wow, thank you beautiful introduction.
Speaker 1: I mean it, dude, I love that. It great to
Speaker 1: be here. Brother. It's so good to have you here, man.
Speaker 1: And obviously I got I met you. So for everyone
Speaker 1: who doesn't know, and you probably don't know this, I
Speaker 1: met Jay the first week I moved. When I say Jay, also,
Speaker 1: I'm now talking about Jay Sean, not referring to myself.
Speaker 1: The first time I met you was the first week
Speaker 1: I moved to La Wow, because I met Jeremy, who's
Speaker 1: you've been working with for a long time. I love you, Jeremy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Jeremy introduced you to us, and this was in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and I loved how genuine you were, how
Speaker 1: down to earth you were, like it was so easy
Speaker 1: to chat to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bro.
Speaker 1: We hit it off right away and I wish you
Speaker 1: lived in La Still so we can hang out.
Speaker 2: I know, Bro, I know we keep talking about that, right,
Speaker 2: but now it is. It's so lovely to be here
Speaker 2: with you, Bro. So proud of you and what you've done,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I know that you have
Speaker 2: guests on and it's about them, but you know what
Speaker 2: you've been doing. I've been watching everything. It's amazing. Makes
Speaker 2: me proud. And you know, obviously we're both from England,
Speaker 2: you know, both from what part of London?
Speaker 1: Were you from the north? Okay?
Speaker 2: So I was West London obviously, Houndslow, Southfield. Of course
Speaker 2: first standard as ciches against for any Indian. But you
Speaker 2: know it's not easy, right having these lofty dreams, you know,
Speaker 2: and then being here in La which is literally the
Speaker 2: land of dreams and broken dreams. Let's be honest about that.
Speaker 2: There's people who have goals, but there's also broken dreams.
Speaker 2: So to be able to, you know, do what you're
Speaker 2: doing and what I'm doing is it's really beautiful. So yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you for having me, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, let's let's let's start there because I think
Speaker 1: I find it really interesting. At one point in my life,
Speaker 1: I think I had big dreams when I was a teenager,
Speaker 1: but I never actually believed the dreams could be real
Speaker 1: because I didn't have role models people I could see
Speaker 1: doing those things. Did you always have big dreams in
Speaker 1: a belief that your life could go down that way?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Bro?
Speaker 2: The one thing about me ever since I was a kid,
Speaker 2: I always wanted to a work my hardest, try my hardest,
Speaker 2: and apply myself. I've been a very driven person ever
Speaker 2: since I was a kid, and I think really and
Speaker 2: so is my brother. I have one brother in the roup,
Speaker 2: and I think both of us have that we share
Speaker 2: that same quality. We're very, very highly driven people. Now
Speaker 2: that comes solely from my parents, it really does. My
Speaker 2: dad is a big, big dreamer, big dreamer, bro. And
Speaker 2: I only found out recently, like when I started going
Speaker 2: into music and my brother went into film, that these
Speaker 2: were also my dad's dreams, but they were hidden my
Speaker 2: dad always you know, my dad used to write poetry
Speaker 2: and nobody ever knew it, but he ended up being
Speaker 2: a businessman and a very successful businessman. But seeing my
Speaker 2: dad's drive and my mom is super hard working as well,
Speaker 2: we were always inspired by that, like wow, like how
Speaker 2: did dad do this? He had three factories they used
Speaker 2: to manufacture denim. They were like, you know, Top top
Speaker 2: Man and River Island, all these places they used to
Speaker 2: make all the jeens and it came from nothing, came
Speaker 2: from just a vision. So that was them. But then
Speaker 2: also they put us into a private school. Now private
Speaker 2: school in England, as you know, it costs a lot
Speaker 2: of money. Now I could have gone to a school
Speaker 2: in the area that I lived in, Hounslow, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't the most affluent area time. It wasn't the best
Speaker 2: school system at the time. So my parents wanted to
Speaker 2: be able to put us into an education system where
Speaker 2: they felt like we could excel, and so they did.
Speaker 2: But that was a sacrifice. They didn't get to go
Speaker 2: on holidays every summer and go to Barbados, and that
Speaker 2: money they invested into me and my brother, and I
Speaker 2: think because I saw that sacrifice, we always wanted to
Speaker 2: work hard, so you know, we knew what they were
Speaker 2: doing was for us. But the school that we went
Speaker 2: to was I think and Latimer Upper School. I'll have
Speaker 2: to shout them out, because an incredible school because not
Speaker 2: only did you have to be smart to get in,
Speaker 2: so you had smart kids, but they weren't like, oh stuffy,
Speaker 2: I go to Latimer and I don't do anything fun. No,
Speaker 2: it was creative. They were fun. We had so much
Speaker 2: of a laugh. And it was an all boys school.
Speaker 2: And the reason I'm telling you that is we weren't
Speaker 2: getting dressed up during the day to impress girls. I
Speaker 2: wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So how did
Speaker 2: you make friends? How did you become the popular one?
Speaker 2: Everyone was smart, You had to have something. You had
Speaker 2: to either be the funny guy, you had to be
Speaker 2: the athletic dude, or you had to be like the
Speaker 2: captain of the football team. So everybody excelled, but in
Speaker 2: a competitive way, but like in a nice, friendly, competitive manner.
Speaker 2: So that has always been my nature to do well
Speaker 2: and to apply myself to whatever I do. And I
Speaker 2: think I've been like that my whole life. That's why
Speaker 2: I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking
Speaker 2: up different projects. Because if this is all we got, bro,
Speaker 2: you know, why not make the most of it. Do
Speaker 2: do the things you enjoy and try to try to
Speaker 2: see how far you can get with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. What was it like having those conversations with
Speaker 1: your parents in those early days, Because we've talked about
Speaker 1: a million times, and every Indian has that pressure. And
Speaker 1: even you know, the other night I was at an
Speaker 1: event and it was the same thing where like, Indian
Speaker 1: parents are talking about this idea of just like doctor lawyer,
Speaker 1: and you know we've heard it a million times. Of
Speaker 1: course you were on that path. You were on that
Speaker 1: path to make your parents the proudest Indian parents of
Speaker 1: all time. And I think there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who listen to this, and even if they don't
Speaker 1: have an Indian upbringing, they may have an upbringing where
Speaker 1: their parents' expectations mean something absolutely and their parents' expectations
Speaker 1: are important to them because they love their parents and
Speaker 1: they see their sacrifice. A lot of people who are
Speaker 1: listening maybe thinking, my parents work so hard, I look
Speaker 1: ungrateful if I follow my dreams. What was that like?
Speaker 2: Absolutely listen, that's such a good point, Jay, because I
Speaker 2: of course I get asked that question a lot, right like,
Speaker 2: and some people might not know, You're right, I was
Speaker 2: on my path to being a doctor. It's not just
Speaker 2: necessarily an Asian thing. We can really break this down
Speaker 2: because as a parent now myself, I understand what it's
Speaker 2: like to want the best for your kids. You want
Speaker 2: them not to struggle. You want them to have a profession.
Speaker 2: You don't want them to be like, oh, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I have this dream. I want to be an painter
Speaker 2: and this, and you're like that's great, I love that,
Speaker 2: But I also don't want you to struggle for money.
Speaker 2: I don't. So you don't have to be an Asian
Speaker 2: parent to want your kids to do well school, job.
Speaker 2: But the Asian thing, the reason is stereotype, I think
Speaker 2: personally is because we were immigrants, so therefore you can
Speaker 2: come with a dream and you can come on a
Speaker 2: ship from India, come to England to go hmm, I
Speaker 2: want to be a professional gymnast. They were like, what
Speaker 2: shut up, bro, you just left the bend. You've left
Speaker 2: the village. You need to earn money. So that our
Speaker 2: grandparents didn't get to have a lofty dream. They just
Speaker 2: had to work hard. They had to work two jobs,
Speaker 2: sometimes three jobs to put food on the table. So
Speaker 2: then therefore that also gets passed down to their kids.
Speaker 2: But with my particular situation, the medicine wasn't my parents'
Speaker 2: dream for me, it was actually mine. I was a
Speaker 2: super nerd in school, Bro. I loved getting straight eight
Speaker 2: grades I loved working hard and then seeing the fruits
Speaker 2: of my labor. So when I used to get those
Speaker 2: top grades, it made me feel like I'd achieved something.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't like, oh, Mom and Dad would be happy.
Speaker 2: I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like,
Speaker 2: I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this, right,
Speaker 2: So I actually got fascinated with science. I still am
Speaker 2: completely and utterly fascinated with the human mind and the
Speaker 2: human body. So before I did medicine, actually bro I
Speaker 2: actually not many people know this. I think you might
Speaker 2: with first person who knows this. I actually did a
Speaker 2: degree in a combined science degree in psychology and biology.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So I did a degree in psychology and biology,
Speaker 2: Bachelor of Science. I fully enjoyed it, and then I
Speaker 2: was thinking, I'm going to go on to perhaps become
Speaker 2: a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I wanted to help people.
Speaker 2: I wanted to get in there was always been my thing.
Speaker 2: Ended up quite applying for medicine and did two years
Speaker 2: of medicine. But like anybody, you have hobbies. My hobby
Speaker 2: was music. So I was probably about twelve or thirteen
Speaker 2: years old when I got obsessed with hip hop. I
Speaker 2: couldn't give it up. I was writing raps at the
Speaker 2: age of thirteen because I was watching these rappers from
Speaker 2: do you remember I don't know if you remember this
Speaker 2: probably agent show my age Hereyo. MTV raps okay, used
Speaker 2: to be because in England. Growing up in England, we
Speaker 2: didn't have access to eight. Of course, we didn't have
Speaker 2: the Internet back then. We didn't have access to all
Speaker 2: of these hip hop shows. So we had this cable
Speaker 2: show on MTV and it would come on and it
Speaker 2: was called Loo MTV Raps with Heed Lover and Doctor Dray.
Speaker 1: I had MTV Base Nelson Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, and Westwood. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of that.
Speaker 2: Obviously I'm going to completely off topic I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, like point being, you know, the applying
Speaker 2: yourself and the working hard and all that stuff. It
Speaker 2: was anything I took an interest in, I would take
Speaker 2: it to the extreme. So science, work, academia, interested in it,
Speaker 2: want to do well, took it to the extreme. Let's
Speaker 2: go one degree, all right, No, but I want to
Speaker 2: do this too. And in my head there was nothing
Speaker 2: saying you can't do that. There was nothing saying you
Speaker 2: don't need a degree, bro, Chill, now go get a job.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, but I'm also want to do this,
Speaker 2: and I think I've always been like that my whole life.
Speaker 2: So there, I am studying medicine, but I also want us,
Speaker 2: for some weird reason, go on stage and rap.
Speaker 1: And I was a rapper then, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wasn't a singer anyway. So I've always been juggling, bro,
Speaker 2: I've always been juggling things that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 1: What's been something that you think you've taken to the
Speaker 1: extreme more recently or is that mindset still there or
Speaker 1: has that changed has time's gone on.
Speaker 2: So it's not necessarily taking things to an extreme recently.
Speaker 2: But I have really been interested in being the entrepreneur
Speaker 2: side of the entertainment industry. And it's for a number
Speaker 2: of reasons. Okay, first of all, being an artist. This
Speaker 2: is going to like next year is going to be
Speaker 2: twenty years of me being an artist. That's amazing and
Speaker 2: it's cool, but it doesn't have to be everything I
Speaker 2: do for the rest of my life. I've been so
Speaker 2: blessed to be able to do music. Literally, if you
Speaker 2: think about my job, I write songs, then I sing songs,
Speaker 2: and I go around the world and I travel and
Speaker 2: I try to make people happy when I'm performing my music.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean I don't have other interests. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I'm like, for example, I love restaurants
Speaker 2: and bars. I love them. Anytime I go to a
Speaker 2: different city, first thing I do, either before or after
Speaker 2: my show. Where can we go? Where do the locals
Speaker 2: go and eat? What's the local cuisine? Here's where where
Speaker 2: should I go and sample this city so that I
Speaker 2: can get to say I went to Milan, and I
Speaker 2: knew what that felt like, So then I was like
Speaker 2: my dream was always like, I want my own restaurant,
Speaker 2: I want my own bar. So then I did that.
Speaker 2: You know, we set up an Indian restaurant called Namah
Speaker 2: and a bar called Switch and that was fun because
Speaker 2: it allowed me to use a different side of my
Speaker 2: brain space and all of a sudden now making entrepreneurial decisions,
Speaker 2: which I never really got to do through music because
Speaker 2: it's a different field. So I like, so, you know,
Speaker 2: and we have the yoga studio that you know, my
Speaker 2: wife Tara owns and runs. So all of these things
Speaker 2: keep life interesting for me and I think that's the thing.
Speaker 2: I want to do as much as I can and
Speaker 2: enjoy it and see where I can take it. But
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you try to do everything because you
Speaker 2: don't want to be a jack of you know, jack
Speaker 2: of all trade's master at none. It's just what feels me.
Speaker 2: And so that, you know, I think that the recently
Speaker 2: that it's been the entrepreneurial stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. What has been like you spoke about earlier,
Speaker 1: like breaking that stereotype of it's not only you know,
Speaker 1: Asian families want their kids to like, you know, be
Speaker 1: taken care of and do well in the music industry.
Speaker 1: Walk me through what that was like, because I think
Speaker 1: even as a British Indian and an Asian South Asian person,
Speaker 1: I don't think we necessarily know what it was like
Speaker 1: because I think when you grow up in England, especially
Speaker 1: in London and around I mean to be honest, all
Speaker 1: across England, Indian culture is very accessible. Of course, it's normalized.
Speaker 1: It's everywhere. Yeah, and then coming to the US, I
Speaker 1: don't believe when you did that it was like that
Speaker 1: as far as I know. And what did you feel
Speaker 1: you were working with? What were you excited about what
Speaker 1: did you come up against that you were trying to
Speaker 1: make sense of? Because I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people even right now. I think everyone in different cultures,
Speaker 1: different traditions, different trajectories, has to face some form of resistance,
Speaker 1: some form of stereotypes, some form of opposition. And I've
Speaker 1: always appreciated your way of navigating these things because I
Speaker 1: don't think you look at it it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: everyone's against me. I don't think you lived life that
Speaker 1: way to walk us through. What's what goes through your mind?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, man, So I guess we should really
Speaker 2: just take it right back to the beginning, right, So
Speaker 2: to answer that question, you know, I'm there, I'm a student,
Speaker 2: I'm a medical student. I'm obsessed with hip hop still,
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with music. My love for hip hop, but also,
Speaker 2: like then, gone into R and B as well, because
Speaker 2: they were sort of hand in hand by then.
Speaker 1: Good times. Yeah, I just saw Usher alive in Vegas.
Speaker 1: Oh did you again? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Man, it's you know, it's again. Oh my god, brother,
Speaker 2: there's so much that we can talk about these things.
Speaker 2: Because you say that, and he took you back to
Speaker 2: a He literally transported you back to a period of
Speaker 2: your life, which I did sixteen, and what the stress
Speaker 2: is when we were sixteen, nothing passing our exams, doing
Speaker 2: well in our GCSEs. Everything else was childhood. It was
Speaker 2: it was big dreams. It was you're fearless, you can
Speaker 2: take on the world, you want to do anything and everything,
Speaker 2: and life is just good. You had music was great then,
Speaker 2: just you know, vibes were there, right and and that's
Speaker 2: what I was experiencing. I was I was listening to
Speaker 2: you know, all of that same kind of stuff Usher
Speaker 2: and and you know and Jagged Edge and Black Street
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. And I used to think to
Speaker 2: myself every time we went out and we'd go out
Speaker 2: clubing with my friends and stuff, it would always be
Speaker 2: especially in London, as you know, this quite a heavy
Speaker 2: Indian demographic. Well I should say just like a you know,
Speaker 2: an Asian demographic what we call Asian in England they
Speaker 2: call South Asian here, Yeah, tons of us in all
Speaker 2: these clubs. We'd go to concerts, I'd go and see
Speaker 2: Fujis in concert, or I'd go and see you know,
Speaker 2: DA's effects, I'd go and see Lords of the Underground.
Speaker 2: All of these people still a bunch of of Asians there.
Speaker 2: And at that time I had started writing, and you know,
Speaker 2: I had a friend of mine who's a DJ, and
Speaker 2: we used to make these mixtapes, me and my cousin,
Speaker 2: and we used to make mixtapes just for our own fun.
Speaker 2: And then our friends would be like, actually, that's pretty sick,
Speaker 2: like can you make me a copy? Fin mgame a
Speaker 2: copy making. All of a sudden, it was kind of
Speaker 2: spreading around school, and then that chubby, nerdy Indian kid
Speaker 2: you know, became cool. It's all of a sudden in school,
Speaker 2: and that felt nice. But that was just in school.
Speaker 2: It wasn't happening on a major level anywhere. There was
Speaker 2: no Asian mainstream artist on stage that we could go
Speaker 2: and watch who would sing or wrap the music that
Speaker 2: we love. So we would go there, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'd be at an Usher concert. I'm watching him, and
Speaker 2: I'm watching tons of Asian scream for Usha, and I'm there,
Speaker 2: I'm in the mosh pit, but I'm going why isn't
Speaker 2: one of us up there? We clearly love this music.
Speaker 2: If we can listen to this music and we can
Speaker 2: buy this music, why can't we make this music? Why
Speaker 2: can't we be the one up there on stage. And
Speaker 2: I think when that click switched for me, that changed everything,
Speaker 2: because again talking about how I just thought nothing was impossible,
Speaker 2: I said, well, I'm going to do that. Why can't I? Okay,
Speaker 2: how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions.
Speaker 2: So I did, and I'm simultaneously studying. But then I'll
Speaker 2: be listening to Choice of M.
Speaker 1: At the time, it was choice Yeah, something like that, right,
Speaker 1: A nine six point nine I think it was. It
Speaker 1: was both, was one of those ones, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'll be listening to Choice of M. And
Speaker 2: there was this competition and it was called Commander B's
Speaker 2: Night Flight. Okay, it's around about midnight, and all you
Speaker 2: have to do you have to pick up the phone,
Speaker 2: spit your best verse or sing. At the time, I
Speaker 2: was just a rapper, right, I was obsessed with hip hop.
Speaker 2: So I said, all right, well I got to lose,
Speaker 2: picked up the phone, dropped a little rhyme. You either
Speaker 2: get flushed, you got the toilet flush sound, or you
Speaker 2: get passed on to the next round. I got through.
Speaker 2: Eventually they chose the top one hundred in the country
Speaker 2: and then that one hundred was put down to was
Speaker 2: cut down to the final twenty. Then the final twenty
Speaker 2: had to perform live in Brixton Academy. Okay, that was
Speaker 2: my first time on stage ever. And when I looked around, Jay,
Speaker 2: I'm not lying to you, I was the only only
Speaker 2: non black, non white person in that room. And I
Speaker 2: didn't think about it at the time, because you're not going,
Speaker 2: You're not looking at that. You just got the mic
Speaker 2: in your hand and you've got an opportunity. You're going,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. How did I even get here? This
Speaker 2: is so fun? It was fun. But now looking back,
Speaker 2: I was like, I was the only Asian kid and
Speaker 2: it didn't scare me. And so therefore, you know, I
Speaker 2: just did what I loved and I did it without fear,
Speaker 2: and I ended up coming third in the whole competition.
Speaker 2: And that's what gave me the confidence to know that
Speaker 2: I can't I think I can take this somewhere.
Speaker 1: How did you have that courage and guts at that age?
Speaker 1: And I guess it's part of that extreme focus mentality.
Speaker 1: But like I feel like today, I have so many
Speaker 1: people in my life that I know that are scared
Speaker 1: of posting on TikTok or posting on Instagram or putting
Speaker 1: out like for you to like drop that verse on
Speaker 1: a phone call, you know other people are gonna hear it.
Speaker 1: Other people are going to find out about it. When
Speaker 1: you're on stage, of course, you're laid bare in front
Speaker 1: of all the audience. I think so many people today
Speaker 1: get in their heads and they're like, well, I can't
Speaker 1: post that I look stupid, or I can't do that.
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough. And even people who are really
Speaker 1: talented stop themselves from putting things out there because they're
Speaker 1: scared of what their friends say. I remember when I
Speaker 1: posted my first video, it was the people closest to
Speaker 1: me that criticized it or riady killed it. It wasn't
Speaker 1: It wasn't the audience. The audience actually responded fairly well
Speaker 1: for day one, but it was the people around me
Speaker 1: that said, Jay, you talked too fast. Jay, that point
Speaker 1: didn't make sense. Jay, your editing is not as good
Speaker 1: as it should be. Like that was coming from people
Speaker 1: I knew, whereas the comments were like, oh, I love this.
Speaker 1: I just shared this with a friend, and so I
Speaker 1: feel so many people have that block. What was it
Speaker 1: for you that gave you that courage to say, this
Speaker 1: is fun. I love that idea of this is fun.
Speaker 1: I'm doing what I love and I actually don't care.
Speaker 1: How did you have that then? I didn't care?
Speaker 2: And you're right. You know the reason why I didn't
Speaker 2: care back then because in order to find out somebody's opinion,
Speaker 2: they had to actually be in front of you and
Speaker 2: talk to you about it in person. Right now, we
Speaker 2: live in a day and age where we've got connection
Speaker 2: with every single human being on the planet. We're not
Speaker 2: built like that, bro, where our brains are not built
Speaker 2: to have that many connections with that many people were
Speaker 2: just not built like that. That's why we get anxiety.
Speaker 2: That's why we get because we know that I post this,
Speaker 2: it's going to go out to the world, and then
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent of the people who react
Speaker 2: are people I don't know, and I have to take
Speaker 2: their criticism on board. But we weren't bill to be
Speaker 2: able to deal with that. We just not designed to
Speaker 2: be able to deal with that much. So therefore, of
Speaker 2: course it overwhelms us. Of course it gives us anxiety.
Speaker 2: Of course we get depressed because users Z one five
Speaker 2: ninety nine said this about me, but we don't know
Speaker 2: that person. So when I was a kid, I just
Speaker 2: did what I did because I didn't have the opinions
Speaker 2: of too many people around me. And even if I did,
Speaker 2: like you said, and that's another great point, often the
Speaker 2: people who are around you might not have the courage
Speaker 2: to take a step out of the comfort zone like
Speaker 2: you did or I did. So therefore they're just like,
Speaker 2: oh no, bro, or maybe it's love. Maybe they're just like,
Speaker 2: I don't want you to be sad if someone says
Speaker 2: something about you. I don't want you to be hurt
Speaker 2: if it doesn't work out. I just loved it. That's
Speaker 2: the only that's the only truth of it all is
Speaker 2: when I tell you that it was an obsession, jay
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with hip hop and R and B,
Speaker 2: but like not just the culture, the technique. Okay, So
Speaker 2: if I was to really break it down, obsessed with
Speaker 2: the fast rappers of that time, that's what it was.
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with big l I was obsessed with
Speaker 2: chip food from food food stickens. I was obsessed with
Speaker 2: jay Z with original flavor and the way that they
Speaker 2: would rhyme. It was very very fast, and that to
Speaker 2: me was just so cool at the age of fourteen,
Speaker 2: How are you rapping that fast? So I would emulate
Speaker 2: it and I would try to do what they were doing.
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, how did they do that? So
Speaker 2: it became like this nerdy obsession. And then when it
Speaker 2: came to singers, it was vocalist, how are you singing
Speaker 2: like that? How are you doing those runs? How are
Speaker 2: you doing those rifts? So I would study them. I
Speaker 2: would study boys to men. I would study all these
Speaker 2: guys and copy their rifts and copy. And that's how
Speaker 2: I sort of learned how to rap and how to
Speaker 2: sing by literally just said, my these people who had
Speaker 2: such a great skill set.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And so therefore, when I learned how to do it
Speaker 2: for myself, of course I wanted to just go and
Speaker 2: have a go at it. So why not go up
Speaker 2: there and have a go. And it wasn't because the
Speaker 2: end goal was going to be a record deal. I
Speaker 2: didn't know. I wasn't thinking that far ahead. The end
Speaker 2: goal was I love doing this. If you love football,
Speaker 2: you want to kick a football around, You don't want
Speaker 2: to just do it in your back garden. If you
Speaker 2: get a chance to play on a big pitch, are
Speaker 2: you're not going to go yeah, right.
Speaker 1: I love that there's simplicity of their answers beautiful, because
Speaker 1: I do think that it is love that carries you through,
Speaker 1: and I think today it's almost the opposite. It's the inverse, right.
Speaker 1: So at that time, we didn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: role models or people that look like you, or people
Speaker 1: like you that had made it. And I don't just
Speaker 1: mean that by race and gender and back, I just
Speaker 1: mean in general in life, fame and success and careers
Speaker 1: like that were reserved for a few. There were only
Speaker 1: a finite number of TV channels, find that number of
Speaker 1: music artists, find that number of actors, all very mysterious
Speaker 1: and unreachable. Ever knew how they got there. Today we
Speaker 1: live in the opposite where it's like all your friends
Speaker 1: are influencers. Everyone has yeah, everyone's doing everyone's doing something interesting.
Speaker 1: You know someone in your family or a network who's
Speaker 1: figured something out, Like people are running businesses, there's entrepreneurs here,
Speaker 1: there's this, and that, someone has a podcast whatever. So
Speaker 1: now it's almost the inverse where it's like, now you
Speaker 1: see it happening so much that now you think it
Speaker 1: has to work out that way. So that time you
Speaker 1: just said, I never believe I never even thought about
Speaker 1: a record deal. Now, when you start making music, all
Speaker 1: you think about is a record deal because it does
Speaker 1: feel within reach or it does feel like someone else
Speaker 1: did it. And I fully agree with you. When I
Speaker 1: put out my first video, all I thought was I
Speaker 1: love sharing this wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it
Speaker 1: in small rooms of five people. I think the wisdom
Speaker 1: should reach more people, and I'm just trying to see
Speaker 1: if it works. But there wasn't. There wasn't a goal
Speaker 1: or a strategy or a whole approach. One day it's
Speaker 1: gonna be this and we're gonna have this. We're gonna
Speaker 1: build a media empire like it wasn't like that. It
Speaker 1: was just I love this, and I actually don't know
Speaker 1: what else to do with this apart from try and
Speaker 1: share it.
Speaker 2: I've always believed one thing, right, if I operate from
Speaker 2: a place of panic, desperation, just looking around competition, it
Speaker 2: won't work. It doesn't work for me because it's not true.
Speaker 2: It's not organic, it's not real. There is no actual
Speaker 2: substance in that product. It's hollow, it's fake, and people
Speaker 2: can see it. And I really believe in that it
Speaker 2: sounds airy fairy, but I believe in it. I know
Speaker 2: for a fact I have made songs just chasing hits,
Speaker 2: just like ah, that song work. I went so far
Speaker 2: down that rod bro of trying to chase big pop hits.
Speaker 2: I lost myself. I lost. I didn't even even when
Speaker 2: I was behind the mic singing it. There was no
Speaker 2: smile on my face because I knew you were writing
Speaker 2: songs for this climate, and you got this guy talking
Speaker 2: in your ear. Hm, you need to do a song
Speaker 2: like this because so and so I had another big Oh,
Speaker 2: we'll get the producer who did that. Oh, we're right
Speaker 2: this right with the songwriter who did that. I'm like,
Speaker 2: but I don't even like that music. Yeah, but that's
Speaker 2: all that's working right now. So you got to do it.
Speaker 2: And there was no love in it. And guess what
Speaker 2: my fans could tell. They can tell they're not stupid.
Speaker 2: They know the Saint Jay shaw Man seeing I see
Speaker 2: what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I
Speaker 2: let him do it. But the Saint Jay, Saint the
Speaker 2: Jay that we loved, Saint the Jay that we fell
Speaker 2: in love with. I see what he's doing. There's a
Speaker 2: pressure for him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand
Speaker 2: by him, but we'll wait for him to come back.
Speaker 2: He'll find his way back, as I always do. But
Speaker 2: when it's not from a place of love, and it's
Speaker 2: not from a place of passion, and it's not real,
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a metadata in that that people
Speaker 2: can feel. And that's always been the story of my life.
Speaker 1: And that's beautiful. Yeah, No, And and it's great to
Speaker 1: have that connection to your audience. But when you start obviously,
Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, I still remember when Dance
Speaker 1: with You came out and we used to wait for
Speaker 1: it to be played on Channel You, and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of where else but Channel You was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And at the back in the day, this is again
Speaker 1: agent made. You'd have to wait for the songs you
Speaker 1: love to come on to record them on VHS, so
Speaker 1: you'd record it and then you'd make your own VHS
Speaker 1: music video so that I'd have Usher you, pddy eminem
Speaker 1: like whatever else it is. And you're collecting all these
Speaker 1: people and then now whenever your mates come over, you
Speaker 1: put this video in and then you play that, or
Speaker 1: you're playing Channel You in the background anyway, But it's
Speaker 1: like I remember when Dance with You came out, and
Speaker 1: for anyone who doesn't know it, if you if you
Speaker 1: didn't know Ja before the US world, like go back
Speaker 1: and see check that video out, because I still think
Speaker 1: it's a brit like it lands even today. That's how
Speaker 1: good that song is you and it's and I can
Speaker 1: still bump in the car and it's it's awesome. But
Speaker 1: to me, it was such a moment for the culture
Speaker 1: because it was actually good music and it was actually
Speaker 1: cool too. And I think that that's hard to do
Speaker 1: as well. I think it's really hard when you're like
Speaker 1: trying to do something fresh. You're new and you're trying
Speaker 1: to own a sound or create a sound, but to
Speaker 1: actually do that is really challenging. So when you're at
Speaker 1: your best, most creative self, as you were just describing, now,
Speaker 1: walk us through the more texture of that recipe of life,
Speaker 1: when you're really landing in that passion, that love, the excitement,
Speaker 1: as you said, like, walk us through when you're at
Speaker 1: your peak creativity and it's truly authentic. What does that
Speaker 1: creative process look like?
Speaker 2: There's no thought And that's what I always tell people.
Speaker 2: Making music is not a science. There will be people
Speaker 2: who tell you and listen. Fine. Some people have had
Speaker 2: a very very long, successful career by methodically thinking, hmm,
Speaker 2: verse must be x amount of syllables, and this melody
Speaker 2: works because this chord structure works for the last ten years,
Speaker 2: top ten hits. This is the chord progression and cool.
Speaker 2: I'm not built that way. That's not how I make music. Amazing,
Speaker 2: hats off to the people who can write hits like that.
Speaker 2: That's not how I make music. I feel. I feel,
Speaker 2: and I smile and I jump up and down in
Speaker 2: the studio when that song is done. And if I'm
Speaker 2: feeling like that. The one thing the rule I have
Speaker 2: is after I've written a song, if I am not
Speaker 2: so excited, regardless of what time it is, it could
Speaker 2: be four in the morning, I could have had a
Speaker 2: twenty hour day. If I'm not excited enough to go
Speaker 2: behind that mic bro and sing that song right there,
Speaker 2: that second, it ain't it. If I can say, ah,
Speaker 2: I'll wait till tomorrow, then that means my fans can go, ah,
Speaker 2: I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it. You understand, they
Speaker 2: have options. And the thing is I go off of
Speaker 2: that excitement. So when dance with you happened. I had
Speaker 2: met Richie rich who really you know, responsible for just
Speaker 2: everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career,
Speaker 2: our work together. He heard something in me. He knew
Speaker 2: I wrapped, He knew us I sang. And what I
Speaker 2: had developed was a style of blending the two. So
Speaker 2: I would fast rap and sing, but sing it with
Speaker 2: a melody. So, because the rapper in me was so alive,
Speaker 2: I didn't approach the beat the way that I would
Speaker 2: say perhaps if I was just a singer. So I
Speaker 2: actually wrote it as a rap. So, girl, whatever told you,
Speaker 2: but thin get of all the possibilycical ways they're going
Speaker 2: to broach you. And so then i'd write those lyrics down.
Speaker 2: But then I put a melody. Girl, whatever told you,
Speaker 2: but they get all of the puzzle of lilyriical ways
Speaker 2: they're going to broach you. And it was something that
Speaker 2: I don't think many people had heard before, but it
Speaker 2: was my style. And had there been like a suit
Speaker 2: in the room, like an A and R, he would
Speaker 2: have gone, hmhmm, you're way too fast. I don't know
Speaker 2: what you're saying. Slow it down too many words, This
Speaker 2: doesn't work. Who does this have you seen give me
Speaker 2: an example of someone who's had success with a song
Speaker 2: like this, with a verse like that. That's exactly why
Speaker 2: you should do it. That's exactly why I did it.
Speaker 2: It's because it is new, because it was fresh, and
Speaker 2: because it was it was me, bro It's me, you know.
Speaker 2: So when that landed on that song, I think a
Speaker 2: lot the Asian kids in England growing up. If you're
Speaker 2: growing up in England, you're listening to you know, probably
Speaker 2: R and B and hip hop, which is very common
Speaker 2: for us at the time. That was a culture, right,
Speaker 2: that was kind of what we were into. And then
Speaker 2: your mum's watching some Indian drama or some Indian shark movie,
Speaker 2: so you got Bollywood, so you got like beautiful Hindi
Speaker 2: melodies going on in the background. And if you're Punjabi
Speaker 2: like me, you're going to weddgs and they're playing punga
Speaker 2: Punjabi music and it's upbeat. Those were all of my
Speaker 2: musical influences. So when I was in that room, it
Speaker 2: was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishie
Speaker 2: and I to have. First of all, when Rishie put
Speaker 2: that Indian flu to me, I wasn't like, oh, that's Indian.
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, that's sick. That's a sick. Example
Speaker 2: that sounds amazing over a hip hop, beat, pop, R
Speaker 2: and B chords. It was something brand new, but it
Speaker 2: was something. It was all the music that we listened
Speaker 2: to in one party. It wasn't like control, it wasn't
Speaker 2: like we're trying to create a new genre. We created
Speaker 2: a new genre by accident because it was just the
Speaker 2: stuff that we were into. So then when we did that,
Speaker 2: had written that song originally kind of left it there.
Speaker 2: Rishie was working with Juggide, obviously a Punjabbi artist.
Speaker 1: He heard it.
Speaker 2: He was like, this is sick. Jump on it, brav h.
Speaker 2: He did his thing. Before you knew it. We had
Speaker 2: a song that no one had ever heard. And guess what,
Speaker 2: the people that Asian culture at that time had all
Speaker 2: of their favorite music on one song. You had punjubbi,
Speaker 2: you had hip hop, and you had R and B,
Speaker 2: and you had this whole thing in three minutes of
Speaker 2: one song. And for the first time ever, I think
Speaker 2: by three at that time, young dudes, because if you
Speaker 2: were like listening to pun jubby music, they were like
Speaker 2: uncle ages.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Exactly and like a good sing but he's like fifty.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you got these young girls and
Speaker 2: guys who were listen to people who look like them, yeah,
Speaker 2: doing this stuff, and that kind of I think was
Speaker 2: something that was brand new and it it just changed
Speaker 2: the game. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree with that, even when you see
Speaker 1: that in new artists, Like I remember, yeah, the first
Speaker 1: time I ever heard a Drake song right right, like
Speaker 1: early mixtapes, Like you're like, who's this guy who can
Speaker 1: sing and run rap and do his own thing? Now
Speaker 1: I know that today, Like you know, Drake's gone on
Speaker 1: to just do after Hitt and all the rest of it,
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes he gets a hard time where
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, yeah, he just makes it, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, if you think about it, when he started,
Speaker 1: he was probably only like real rapper that also did that,
Speaker 1: like was able to mix the two. And I've always
Speaker 1: I've always loved his music, but to me as well,
Speaker 1: it was that same thing where it's like he was
Speaker 1: putting together two things that felt natural to him in
Speaker 1: his own way, Like he could sing really high notes
Speaker 1: and then put in like a rap verse. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: He could do both, Yeah, and it was just exciting.
Speaker 1: It was to me, it's always been exciting when people
Speaker 1: are not kind of imprisoned and limited by a box.
Speaker 1: And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and
Speaker 1: the musician in you and allowing yourself, Like I think,
Speaker 1: I think today we've become so much better at recognizing
Speaker 1: that people are multi hyphen its like you know that
Speaker 1: Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion
Speaker 1: I got exactly right. You know that an actress can
Speaker 1: also have an amazing company. You know that exactly. Ryan
Speaker 1: Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's so many different ways of doing that.
Speaker 1: He can own a football team exactly the exactly. But
Speaker 1: in the beginning, it was like, no, you're an actor,
Speaker 1: Just just be an actor, honored.
Speaker 2: That, do that, and sometimes oh, actually you do this role.
Speaker 2: You're only doing comedies. And then an actor could be like, dude, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know I'm good at comedy, but like, give me
Speaker 2: a drama man, just give me a shot. Yeah, show me,
Speaker 2: let me show those skills, right. Yeah, So for me,
Speaker 2: it was always like Okay, I do music, but like,
Speaker 2: don't tell me, I can only do the these records,
Speaker 2: I can only sing these kind of songs. I can
Speaker 2: only you know, sing, I can't bust into a rap randomly.
Speaker 2: So I was so that always confused me because I
Speaker 2: was like, hold on a second, this is my artistic expression,
Speaker 2: So surely it should just be why why aren't I
Speaker 2: just allowed to do who I am? Because otherwise then
Speaker 2: it's not Jay Sean, it's Jay Sewan with other people
Speaker 2: in his ear. Then it's not just Drake, it's Drake
Speaker 2: with other people in his ear. So I think the
Speaker 2: reason why people fall in love with an artist is
Speaker 2: because that person has something unique to share with the world, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like if you're in a certain mood, you're
Speaker 2: gonna be like, man, I know, man, I feel like
Speaker 2: I it's put on some Adele right now or something.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Because you know what Adele offers, you know what her music,
Speaker 2: how it makes you feel?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, as opposed to just a random singer who's got
Speaker 2: a beautiful voice.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, truly? Yeah, I know you reminded me of
Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey came on the podcast. He talked about how
Speaker 1: he was known as the rom com guy, so he
Speaker 1: was doing How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days.
Speaker 1: He was doing all those types of movies and he
Speaker 1: was amazing at it. It was like ghosts of Girlfriends past,
Speaker 1: and like he was that guy. He was like the
Speaker 1: hot heart throb you know that holds those movies. And
Speaker 1: he said he had to take a two year break
Speaker 1: from making movies to shift his brand to be able
Speaker 1: to do movies like The Lincoln Lawyer later on Dallas
Speaker 1: Bias Club, which he won the award for. And it's
Speaker 1: like he literally didn't make movies for two years and
Speaker 1: he was getting paid like fifteen million to do a
Speaker 1: rom com, right, And he said, for two years he
Speaker 1: didn't do anything because that was his brand and he
Speaker 1: wanted to do more serious roles. He wanted to do
Speaker 1: roles that he cared about. And it took him saying
Speaker 1: no for two years. And that's a lot of like,
Speaker 1: you know it, it's amazing to think that people who've
Speaker 1: made pivots in their career have had to kind of
Speaker 1: have these very like interesting transition periods. Yeah, what was
Speaker 1: it like for what's the biggest difference between the UK
Speaker 1: and the US music scene? Because I think you have that,
Speaker 1: you know, you have that as unique experence. There's a
Speaker 1: few of you, right, there's you, and then like more
Speaker 1: recently obviously that people like Ed Sheeran Adele like, there's
Speaker 1: there's few people who've been able to be successful in both.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a funny thing. Right, So obviously at
Speaker 2: the time, pre two thousand and nine, I was lucky
Speaker 2: enough to have guarded myself a worldwide fan base excluding
Speaker 2: I thought, excluding America. I just thought, there's no way
Speaker 2: America knows my music. And that's because America has, Let's
Speaker 2: be honest, they have the kreme de la creme of everything.
Speaker 2: If you think of any of the biggest stars, they're
Speaker 2: usually American, whether they're Hollywood stars, you know, or Canadian
Speaker 2: right or from specifically Toronto. So right. But at the time,
Speaker 2: so when we're in that's why when we were in London,
Speaker 2: London is a small island, and so what happens is
Speaker 2: sometimes you can get I refer to it a small
Speaker 2: island syndrome. You can walk around your little place and
Speaker 2: feel like the big shot.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I'm a daggon them. People know me and
Speaker 2: hear me. Yeah, I'm lester Brough. People know me here
Speaker 2: boy a Scotland man. People know me in Scotland Brough. Okay, cool,
Speaker 2: that's amazing and great and if you can have a
Speaker 2: career then you're happy with that, that's great. I always,
Speaker 2: again going back to me being a person who's highly driven,
Speaker 2: I would always say, take me somewhere when no one
Speaker 2: knows me. I want to win them over. Take me somewhere,
Speaker 2: take me anywhere where nobody knows me, and let me
Speaker 2: see if I can win them over. And that has
Speaker 2: always been something that's very dear to me, even when
Speaker 2: it comes to shows. Any show, like you could do
Speaker 2: a corporate gig right and they have it, and it's
Speaker 2: like people be like, oh, they're waiting for the show.
Speaker 2: I'll be okay, cool, what's the demographic? This is x
Speaker 2: y zed. I don't then think okay, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: sing x y Z song. I go, well, how can
Speaker 2: I connect with them? What am I going to be
Speaker 2: able to on what level? And then win them over
Speaker 2: so that then they can go you know what. I
Speaker 2: didn't actually know Jayshaun before or even like his music,
Speaker 2: but I like the dude. I like the guy. I
Speaker 2: connected with him and he was fun on stage and
Speaker 2: he was funny and he was an endearing and then
Speaker 2: he actually rocked the crowd and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you want him over.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when it came to America, I took that same approach.
Speaker 2: I was. I remember distinctly being at Passport Control and
Speaker 2: I was going to go and sign with cash money.
Speaker 2: That's why I was going over there. And it was
Speaker 2: a big day for me, and I was super excited.
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't believe this man about to
Speaker 2: get a record deal in America. But I went knowing
Speaker 2: that if I don't succeed, at least I have everything
Speaker 2: else that I've worked hard for. And if I do succeed, man,
Speaker 2: that's only a bonus. Now that can only be even better.
Speaker 2: But I'm excited. I'm a bit gassed up right I'm there.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my gosh, a big deal, young Money,
Speaker 1: catch me record. It's like yeah, right.
Speaker 2: So then I'm there at passport Control and the guy goes.
Speaker 2: You know how they are America. Sometimes they're like, what
Speaker 2: is the purpose of you?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I still get it. Every time you're nervous.
Speaker 1: I get so nervous years and.
Speaker 2: It's like, what are the purpose of your visit to
Speaker 2: the United States. I was like, so here's me, and
Speaker 2: how I look slightly cocky. I go, be honest with
Speaker 2: your mate, that's sign a big record deal. And he
Speaker 2: goes yeah, he goes, what's your name? And I go
Speaker 2: Jay Sean and he goes, I haven't heard of you.
Speaker 2: So now I know I've got work to do right
Speaker 2: on my entry to this country. The Good Lord has
Speaker 2: gone relax, mate, calm your ego. There's work to be done.
Speaker 2: And it was through that one guy, that immigration officer
Speaker 2: who looked me dead in the eye and said, so what,
Speaker 2: I haven't heard of you? And I thought, all right,
Speaker 2: let's do this. Let's work. Let's work.
Speaker 1: It's always the immigration officers. I don't recognize anyone man.
Speaker 1: I get the same thing every just the best.
Speaker 2: But I love that and Bro, you it humbled me
Speaker 2: in a split second. And I'm not saying I had
Speaker 2: a big head either, But if I was to be
Speaker 2: cocky about my venture in the United States, I learned
Speaker 2: right there. And then bro, prove yourself again. And that's
Speaker 2: what I had to do from scratch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's such a great mindset to have because
Speaker 1: you could have had that interaction and gone where you
Speaker 1: should know me, right, you could do that or you
Speaker 1: will know, Yeah you will get cocky, right, yeah, you
Speaker 1: will know. And it's just it's so interesting because I
Speaker 1: feel like that is just never a satisfying way to live.
Speaker 1: That's what I've discovered, Like the the idea of thinking
Speaker 1: you're at the top of the mountain or that you're
Speaker 1: doing things it's the same thing as you said earlier,
Speaker 1: like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement.
Speaker 1: I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge,
Speaker 1: because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you
Speaker 1: because I'll see you at the top, Like when you
Speaker 1: do things with that energy, even if and when you
Speaker 1: make it, it never fulfills you because that person may not
Speaker 1: have the reaction you want them to have their place,
Speaker 1: that person would still be like, yeah, don't listen to me,
Speaker 1: I don't like your music. Or when you go up
Speaker 1: to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear
Speaker 1: me now I'm number one Billboard and they go, yeah,
Speaker 1: my girlfriend didn't like it exactly, but yeah, it still
Speaker 1: doesn't It won't feel you, bro.
Speaker 2: And it's a very very good point, and I think
Speaker 2: that it's it's such an important point because for me,
Speaker 2: twenty years of work, Okay, what have I learned? What
Speaker 2: are my lessons? I've been around the world. We were
Speaker 2: calculating this of coming up to a million miles just
Speaker 2: on one airline. Wow, just on one airline. Wow. So
Speaker 2: I've definitely done way more. Must have been around the
Speaker 2: world fifty times, at least fifty in terms of my legs, Yeah, easily.
Speaker 2: That means I have had experiences after experience after experience
Speaker 2: after experience after experience, some amazing, some horrible, some that
Speaker 2: can make you feel like you're on top of the world,
Speaker 2: and some that can pull you into a dark place
Speaker 2: and you don't even want to talk to anyone depressed.
Speaker 2: So where's that safe place? Where's the place where you're
Speaker 2: just okay? Man, I'm alright with this. I'm in this
Speaker 2: industry and it can either make me or break me,
Speaker 2: or it can do neither, or I can just have
Speaker 2: a great time while I'm here, make people happy that
Speaker 2: I love, take care of my family, earn a good living.
Speaker 2: And it all comes down to exactly what you just said,
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this? If I was for the
Speaker 2: rest of my career only driven to write songs and
Speaker 2: perform and record to beat the big monster that is down.
Speaker 2: If that was my only incentive, gotta beat down, gotta
Speaker 2: be down, I've gotta top that. I am setting myself
Speaker 2: up for failure, A and definitely a ton of anxiety,
Speaker 2: a ton of like bad feelings and feelings that just
Speaker 2: aren't on a vibe at all, because I'm doing it
Speaker 2: all for the wrong reasons. If if I then go,
Speaker 2: if I switch my mentality and go, Man, how lucky
Speaker 2: were you? How blessed were you to be able to
Speaker 2: have written that beautiful unicorn of a song that makes
Speaker 2: so many people happy, That really did break a lot
Speaker 2: of records and change your life. Gave you a life, man,
Speaker 2: gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and be grateful and say thank you. That was wicked,
Speaker 2: That was amazing. Now let's go on and write stuff
Speaker 2: that you enjoy, that you love, that perhaps your fans
Speaker 2: might connect to. But if I was to make the
Speaker 2: metric of my happiness chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm
Speaker 2: setting myself up failure because I can't control any of
Speaker 2: those things at all. The only thing I can control
Speaker 2: is the music that I write. The music that I record,
Speaker 2: the music I put into this world, the way I
Speaker 2: interact with people when I'm on stage and make them
Speaker 2: feel those are the things I can control. And so
Speaker 2: therefore my happiness hopefully will be in a safe place,
Speaker 2: you know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting
Speaker 2: it in something that is so out of my control.
Speaker 1: There's this quote that I heard that someone said that,
Speaker 1: you know, at one point I had to stop being
Speaker 1: a hit machine and go back to being an artist.
Speaker 1: And I love that idea, but I feel every artist
Speaker 1: goes through this series of phases where you start as
Speaker 1: a pure artist, You start with pure creativity and pure patchet,
Speaker 1: and then in the scaling of a business of having
Speaker 1: team members of whatever it is, you become a hit machine.
Speaker 1: And you kind of try and like you said, you
Speaker 1: try and like mathematically figure out the equation. You may
Speaker 1: kind of have some hits, you may not have some hits,
Speaker 1: but you have this and either way, whether you've had
Speaker 1: it or whether you haven't, you become unfulfilled. And that's
Speaker 1: what happens so externally, even if this person is having
Speaker 1: all the number ones, they're still feeling internally fulfilled because
Speaker 1: it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they
Speaker 1: started started doing and then they try to go back there.
Speaker 1: Everyone goes back that everyone wants to go back there.
Speaker 1: Some people take thirty years, some people do it in
Speaker 1: three years. I've met people at both ends of the
Speaker 1: spectrum who they made stuff they hated for thirty years.
Speaker 1: Some people gave up after three years and said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going back to doing what I love right,
Speaker 1: And it's normal, Like it's normal for everyone to have
Speaker 1: that so so true. It's so wonderful to hear you
Speaker 1: talk about it in that way, because I think that
Speaker 1: we had Rick Rubin here a few months ago and
Speaker 1: he was saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: He was just like you.
Speaker 1: He was saying the same thing you said. He was like,
Speaker 1: we're not music isn't made formulaically. Like he was like,
Speaker 1: you're not trying to think what people are going to love,
Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna make it. And you know, to
Speaker 1: hear that across artists and musicians, different genres, different backgrounds,
Speaker 1: it speaks to a lot when was your darkest time
Speaker 1: or when was a moment where you felt like you'd
Speaker 1: you were just this is not.
Speaker 2: You know, it's so true. Everything you're saying artists we are.
Speaker 2: We exist in one of two states. We're either you
Speaker 2: can't mess with me best or I suck. Everyone hates me.
Speaker 2: I'm the worst. I should quit.
Speaker 1: I can relate in between.
Speaker 2: The hardest place to be is I'm all right, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna right. I guess I'm gonna write. Artist who wants
Speaker 2: to be I'm an alright artist? Nobody how's it good?
Speaker 2: All right? Man? Nobody wants that. So if you're not
Speaker 2: killing it, you're here.
Speaker 1: I suck.
Speaker 2: I should quit. Nobody likes me. People aren't listening to
Speaker 2: my music. That listen to that person's music. So of
Speaker 2: course I've had those moments. Not only have I had
Speaker 2: them epically in one particular point in my life. My
Speaker 2: whole journey man has been like It's been like the
Speaker 2: Rocky Story, which is why I'm so obsessed with Rocky.
Speaker 1: And love Rocky bro The Slide docs out.
Speaker 2: I watched it. I'm also obsessed with Sorests, the dude.
Speaker 2: That dude, he's he's so smart, and I watched the
Speaker 2: I watched it. I'm not going to ruin it for you.
Speaker 2: But one thing I've always known for about SYBESTERI stallone
Speaker 2: is that this guy bet on himself. That's the story.
Speaker 2: We know. He bet on himself. Didn't get cast in
Speaker 2: movies because of the way he looked, the way you spoke.
Speaker 2: So what did he do? He wrote roles for himself.
Speaker 2: What an amazing, what a genius thing to do that
Speaker 2: you're not gonna cast me? Fine, and he bet on
Speaker 2: himself with Rocky, but he didn't win immediately in Rocky.
Speaker 2: But what that story tells me is, here's a grit.
Speaker 2: Here's a guy, a bum, just a dude that no
Speaker 2: one pays attention to. But he's still a human being.
Speaker 2: He symbolizes your average Joe, your average Joe who the
Speaker 2: world ain't really looking at. They don't really stop to
Speaker 2: notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has
Speaker 2: a little dream inside of him, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for
Speaker 2: it because he's gotten a nothing to lose. But b
Speaker 2: he's all hot, he's all hot, and he's doing it
Speaker 2: from a place of love. He doesn't necessarily need that belt.
Speaker 2: He just loves a the game. And B, I can't
Speaker 2: believe I got this opportunity. Man, I'm gonna take this
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take it with both my hands. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna let go. But then the Rocky saga, the storyline continues,
Speaker 2: the rise and then the fall. And that's why he's
Speaker 2: to me he's such a great writer, is because I
Speaker 2: think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on
Speaker 2: in his life, from nobody to becoming the biggest stuy
Speaker 2: in Hollywood to then maybe getting caught up in the game,
Speaker 2: losing your roots. Oh now I'm not even speaking the
Speaker 2: same way. I don't walk the same way, talk the
Speaker 2: same way, I don't write the same way. Because now
Speaker 2: I'm a star, people are looking at me expecting different things.
Speaker 2: And my career was like that when I started off.
Speaker 2: I just wrote from the heart. Man. I wrote it
Speaker 2: because Jay, Rishie Rich and Juggie Deer coming through on
Speaker 2: a song. Who says that, why are you calling your
Speaker 2: own names out on a song? Most songs are just like, hey, girls,
Speaker 2: so you from the last time. It's an imaginary story
Speaker 2: about something now that you. Yeah, this guy thinks it's
Speaker 2: okay on his first ever song to Goya, of the song,
Speaker 2: it's not the intro part.
Speaker 1: It's not like that, yo, It's yeah, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not that far. It's it's the verse.
Speaker 2: It's the verse. Why young, cockiness, fresh fun? Not even
Speaker 2: thinking about it, not studying other songs, going well, what
Speaker 2: are the kind of lyrics today?
Speaker 1: Write?
Speaker 2: What are the big hits? I did it and it
Speaker 2: connected and it felt right and it worked first album.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're familiar with you all.
Speaker 1: Against I remember buying Me against Myself on CD There
Speaker 1: You Go, because I was so excited to look at
Speaker 1: the art and I love the idea because on the
Speaker 1: last track you had to wait like a few minutes
Speaker 1: and fast forward it to wait for like bonus material.
Speaker 1: I love this kind of like hidden things like yeah.
Speaker 2: Mass yeah, and So Me against Myself? Why was it
Speaker 2: even called Me against Myself? It was called me against myself? Because, bro,
Speaker 2: in all honesty, truth be told, from the beginning of
Speaker 2: my career, I have been in this little bubble where
Speaker 2: I have been fighting myself the whole time. The rapper
Speaker 2: versus the singer, the R and B guy versus the
Speaker 2: pop guy. It's always been this duality of who is
Speaker 2: actually keeping it real and who's the one making the
Speaker 2: money and you know, up on the stages, and are
Speaker 2: they the same person? Because the guy who's keeping it
Speaker 2: real was the rapper. He was the guy who was like, yo,
Speaker 2: you sold out. You're writing these fictional songs about hey,
Speaker 2: baby girl, this, baby girl that, and on the song
Speaker 2: me against myself, it's literally the rapper versus the singer.
Speaker 2: And the other part of this whole thing was it
Speaker 2: was me against everyone else in the music industry because
Speaker 2: at the time when I started, I didn't really know it,
Speaker 2: know it, and you know, but now we look back,
Speaker 2: I was really out there by myself as the only
Speaker 2: Asian kid in a sea of and we're talking like
Speaker 2: a bit of the mainstream artists now.
Speaker 1: And twenty years ago, even more so twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: And it was only until I sort of really started
Speaker 2: coming across situations where I realized I am the odd
Speaker 2: one out, I am the fish out of water here,
Speaker 2: I'm the one that doesn't look like anybody else. It
Speaker 2: was very different, and you know, for me, I felt
Speaker 2: like at that point the only thing that was going
Speaker 2: to get me through all of this was by staying
Speaker 2: true to who I am. Right, So there's this, you
Speaker 2: know song I wrote called good Enough. So what I
Speaker 2: would do is I would instead of screaming about it
Speaker 2: on interviews and ranting on about it and complaining about
Speaker 2: how difficult it is trying to break through and not
Speaker 2: having the same opportunities as other artists. I used to
Speaker 2: disguise my songs my love songs. I used to write
Speaker 2: open letters to the music industry and disguise them as
Speaker 2: love songs. So there's a song on my first album
Speaker 2: on Me Against Myself called good Enough, And in the lyrics,
Speaker 2: you think he's talking about a girl who's not the
Speaker 2: same race as her, so like he's dating a girl
Speaker 2: from a different race. But it's actually a letter, open
Speaker 2: letter to the music industry, and it says it says,
Speaker 2: I've got my mother's skin, I've got my father's eyes.
Speaker 2: That's something that I can't deny, and that's nothing that
Speaker 2: I want to hide. And even though my roots come
Speaker 2: from the other side, they told me that they won't mind,
Speaker 2: because I heard that love is blind. And then it says,
Speaker 2: how do I change a million minds in this lifetime?
Speaker 2: What is it I have to do if I erase
Speaker 2: my history? What defines me? If I had to change
Speaker 2: my truth, would I be good enough for you? And
Speaker 2: really it was about me talking to the music industry, yeah,
Speaker 2: saying like, I'm just like you. Why are you giving
Speaker 2: me a harder time? Man, listen to my music, tell
Speaker 2: me if it fits in where it should fit in.
Speaker 2: So but when all that stuff started to happen, I
Speaker 2: went in a bit of a It was hard for me.
Speaker 2: I went into like a little bit of a dark
Speaker 2: place because I was like the Saint, this is meant
Speaker 2: to be fun, this is meant to be my dream,
Speaker 2: and now like I'm not getting the same opportunities. And
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do about that. You know,
Speaker 2: when my first album, when they tried to take me
Speaker 2: onto the second album at Virgin, I realized that these
Speaker 2: people don't understand me, they don't understand my vision, my art.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go step out. So any money that I
Speaker 2: had earned off that first album and touring, I invested
Speaker 2: in myself, like Sylvester Stallone, and that's where I did
Speaker 2: my Own Way album. Of course why it's called My
Speaker 2: Own Way. On that album, I remember leaving Virgin and
Speaker 2: at the time being told, don't worry, you're gonna get
Speaker 2: another record deal. You know you've got all the success,
Speaker 2: You've got these chart hits. Of course you're gonna get signed. Immediately,
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, okay, good, I'll get signed to
Speaker 2: a label that understands me. Then happen didn't happened, And
Speaker 2: now I'm like, well, I had like four years in
Speaker 2: the game, that's it. Maybe I should have stayed with
Speaker 2: virgin who who else gets a major record deal and
Speaker 2: then walks away from And then I had to talk
Speaker 2: to my parents tell them the situation. I've just given
Speaker 2: up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one
Speaker 2: album out toward the World a little bit. Didn't really
Speaker 2: smash it, though, did I Like for the Indians around
Speaker 2: the world, yes, I smashed it. Of course, they were
Speaker 2: like the first guy, our guy, but in terms of
Speaker 2: mainstream they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy
Speaker 2: had a couple of songs. So I remember being lost,
Speaker 2: really lost, and I pretended actually to my parents that
Speaker 2: I was off to the studio working on a new album.
Speaker 2: And there were times where I would get my car
Speaker 2: and I was drive around park up somewhere and literally
Speaker 2: sit down in my car and go and cry and
Speaker 2: your own on my own and just cry because I
Speaker 2: was so lost and so scared. Here's a guy who
Speaker 2: had all the big dreams in the world or the
Speaker 2: guy who worked so hard at school two degrees. I
Speaker 2: had to just really just sit there and think about
Speaker 2: there has to be a reason. There has to be
Speaker 2: a reason that this gift was given to me, that
Speaker 2: this blessing was given to me to be able to
Speaker 2: try to fly the flag for us. What do I do?
Speaker 2: It can't just end it amazingly as the universe would
Speaker 2: have it. About two weeks later, there was this event
Speaker 2: where I was in doing like a meet and greet
Speaker 2: and this kid comes up to me and he's about
Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen at the time, hands me a CD and
Speaker 2: he goes, hey, man, I'm such a big fan I
Speaker 2: make music. Please listen to it if you can. My
Speaker 2: contact details are on there. So yeah, cool man. Now
Speaker 2: look when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're
Speaker 2: like you're bro cool, but sometimes you get one hundred
Speaker 2: CDs you don't get to listen to them all. On
Speaker 2: the way home, put it in the car. Listening to it,
Speaker 2: I'm like like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy,
Speaker 2: I'm calling this guy straight away. I picked him up,
Speaker 2: picked up the phone and I was like, where do
Speaker 2: you live? Where's your studio. He's like jashon. I was
Speaker 2: like yeah, He's like, bro, come on. I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm coming over now to your studio. And he had
Speaker 2: a studio in his garden in Slough. He had a
Speaker 2: studio in his garden shed in Slough and this is
Speaker 2: a fan of mine. And I said we're gonna work.
Speaker 2: He's like, dude, come on. I was like, I'm serious.
Speaker 2: And it was just me and him, and on that
Speaker 2: day I wrote write it with this kid who had
Speaker 2: just given me a demo CD. He had a dream,
Speaker 2: He had a lofty dream. He didn't know that. I
Speaker 2: was also in a place in my life where I
Speaker 2: needed I needed something. He needed something and I needed something.
Speaker 2: We both wanted to win. And that song was just
Speaker 2: sent bro, and it changed everything. That song obviously, as
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was about living, and that song has
Speaker 1: had so many lives, yeah, and so many edits and
Speaker 1: so many like it's insane. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I and without have getting too heavy on the
Speaker 2: spiritual shit about it. I think it's because there is
Speaker 2: something special about that song. I think it's because that song,
Speaker 2: it's very genesis, came from a place of where I
Speaker 2: was at my lowest and needed so badly to be
Speaker 2: plucked out of this dark place. And I needed something
Speaker 2: from up here. Man, I needed something to lift me up.
Speaker 2: And that song not only just did that for me,
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a sacred song for me, you know.
Speaker 2: And it gave this kid a life. It gave him
Speaker 2: an entire career one song. And then fast forward twelve
Speaker 2: years later, it goes and gives another guy a life,
Speaker 2: some random dude in Lithuania who's just like done a
Speaker 2: remix and put it on YouTube, and then it goes
Speaker 2: on TikTok. This guy is now touring the world, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? So, like, you know, it
Speaker 2: did pretty good for me during the pandemic. Yeah, a
Speaker 2: little nice little pocket change for me too, And it
Speaker 2: was like, you know, it's special. So there you go.
Speaker 2: There was my rocky story. Right, yeah, boom down here
Speaker 2: in the dumps. Back up now, right, it's out Jase Seawan.
Speaker 2: Version two's out, shaved head, right, the spikes are on
Speaker 2: the shaved head, and all of a sudden, man, I
Speaker 2: got another shot at it.
Speaker 1: The reason why I love hearing it is because I remember,
Speaker 1: like I remember trying to figure out what had happened
Speaker 1: between the two albums too, and I remember like, as
Speaker 1: as your fans were following, it was like, I can't remember.
Speaker 1: It was like was it relentless or reckless? Relentless? Right?
Speaker 1: It was relentless, and it was like, yeah, you were
Speaker 1: seeing that shift and you never know what's going on
Speaker 1: on the other side. The best part about that story, though,
Speaker 1: is the randomness and allowing the randomness, because I think
Speaker 1: so often as you become more successful, you become more closed,
Speaker 1: and you become more are You're just a little kid.
Speaker 1: What do you have? And that ego. We've talked about
Speaker 1: ego a few times in this conversation. It just shows
Speaker 1: me again and again and again the thing that gets
Speaker 1: in all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops
Speaker 1: you from being creative because you're scared of what your
Speaker 1: friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you
Speaker 1: start thinking you're the man getting into America. And if
Speaker 1: you would have acted in that way back at that guy,
Speaker 1: but you were like, no, no, no, I'm going to get better.
Speaker 1: I need more. I need to get more people to
Speaker 1: know my work. And then ego again could have stopped
Speaker 1: you from going. He's a little kid. What is he Noo,
Speaker 1: I'm jas schwan like he's just everyone gives me CDs.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting just how we have to work against
Speaker 1: our ego constantly, and me against myself in and of itself,
Speaker 1: is actually us against our ego on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: That's the real battle. The real battle is us against
Speaker 1: our ego. It really is.
Speaker 2: It's so true, man, I think I think all of
Speaker 2: that ties in also bro so just keeping not just
Speaker 2: keeping your eyes open, right, but keeping your mind open.
Speaker 2: And the thing is, I always look at it like this.
Speaker 2: And self awareness is obviously something that you of course
Speaker 2: talk about a lot, and some people go their whole life, man,
Speaker 2: not being self aware, Okay, their whole life, I think
Speaker 2: very Fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on
Speaker 2: once I started this career, I kind of understood again
Speaker 2: just like standing out as the only brown dude, I
Speaker 2: was very self aware. I understood also understanding that when
Speaker 2: I came across those problems and those obstacles, I realized
Speaker 2: very quickly that my sense of humor was able to
Speaker 2: get me out of them rather than letting it destroy me.
Speaker 2: So rather than letting me go when someone says something
Speaker 2: dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate. Instead
Speaker 2: of getting mad and causing an argument, I would use
Speaker 2: wit and intelligence to be able to get myself out
Speaker 2: of it. Now I realized what kind of person I
Speaker 2: was in this industry that I'm in, and this industry
Speaker 2: you know, as you know, it can be very, very fake.
Speaker 2: It can be very it's hard to find connections with
Speaker 2: certain people. But if you know who you are in
Speaker 2: that space, I think you're going that just you'll be
Speaker 2: okay through the highs and through the lows, do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But yeah, I love what I love that you recognize that,
Speaker 2: because it's it's very true. If I wasn't open to
Speaker 2: the randomness and I wasn't open to the science, you.
Speaker 1: Just miss out. And I think about that, right, like,
Speaker 1: I think we all have to reflect on our own
Speaker 1: life and go where do we miss out on that randomness?
Speaker 1: Because we've started to think that things have to be
Speaker 1: formulaic or equations or perfectly fitting or coming from the
Speaker 1: right source. Like sometimes yes, you know, right, Like we
Speaker 1: always think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me
Speaker 1: the right thing, or that individual and it's like, well, no,
Speaker 1: there could be some random person in your family or
Speaker 1: your friends group who says one thing to you that
Speaker 1: actually shoots you off in an amazing direction. There was
Speaker 1: I'm going to give a shout. Me and Jeremy had
Speaker 1: a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me,
Speaker 1: he goes to me. He said to me, I just
Speaker 1: called I called him randomly. I was on a and
Speaker 1: I hadn't caught up with them for a while, so
Speaker 1: I'll call up Jeremy and we start having this phone call.
Speaker 1: And I had no agenda, there was no plan. It
Speaker 1: was just catching up with the mate. And he said
Speaker 1: to me random because Jay, I can't wait till you
Speaker 1: start a school. And I was like, dude, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Very Jeremy, Yeah, yeah, And I was like,
Speaker 1: first of all, Jeremy, I don't have kids, so I
Speaker 1: don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second
Speaker 1: of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually very There needs to be a
Speaker 1: lot of research, There needs to be a lot of understanding,
Speaker 1: like dealing with kids' mind should be dealt with extremely
Speaker 1: delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly,
Speaker 1: like sure, it's a nice idea, but like it's so
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't. I've never even thought of that as
Speaker 1: even a concept in my life. But I answered all
Speaker 1: of that, and then immediately something came to my mind.
Speaker 1: I'd love to go and study the best schools on
Speaker 1: the planet. And I was like, I would love to
Speaker 1: actually go and understand not because I want to start
Speaker 1: a school, but because I would love to understand the
Speaker 1: human mind and what we're messing up that's creating kids
Speaker 1: who cause issues in the world versus kids that get
Speaker 1: it right. Now. There's lots of studies and research, but
Speaker 1: I would actually love to go and sit with parents
Speaker 1: and teachers. And I came back to my team the
Speaker 1: next day I was like, guys, I have to go
Speaker 1: and do this, and we have to document it and
Speaker 1: we have to get because not because I think there's
Speaker 1: content and I don't even know what I do with it.
Speaker 1: I just know that I would be fascinated if over
Speaker 1: the next five years I could understand more deeply how
Speaker 1: to build more compassionate children. Not because I want to
Speaker 1: start a school, not because I think I should. Random conversation.
Speaker 1: It's random conversation that my mate just said, I could
Speaker 1: be like, what does Jeremy know I've got a content,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got stuff going on. You know, he's nice.
Speaker 1: He thinks he wants me to start a school, but
Speaker 1: like that's it. But really it sparked, like genuinely, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how much that idea is, Like you
Speaker 1: are captivated because I'm like, yeah, you know, I'd love
Speaker 1: to know how we build compassionate, empowered, confident children who
Speaker 1: change the world. I would love to understand that on
Speaker 1: a very deep, intimate and personal level. And so I
Speaker 1: started researching, like where are the best schools in the world,
Speaker 1: and like what are the schools that make the most
Speaker 1: creative kids? What are the school that make the most
Speaker 1: of this kids. So I'm like, I've got to go
Speaker 1: to the school in Spain. I've got to go to
Speaker 1: this girl. And I was like, amazing, travel now feels alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's not like I've got to jump on a plane
Speaker 1: to do tod It's like.
Speaker 2: It's and it's for a purpose and it's fun. It's
Speaker 2: something fun. And I think, really, what you're onto there,
Speaker 2: bro is is it's very easy to like sort of
Speaker 2: become complacent as well, like you go, this is what
Speaker 2: I do great studio at this time, I write a song, great,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. When do you find out if we've
Speaker 2: got if you're lucky enough to have another forty fifty
Speaker 2: years on this earth? Right, what's going to light us
Speaker 2: up that whole journey? What's And I think about that constantly.
Speaker 2: If I've already done this much, I have been lucky enough,
Speaker 2: blessed enough to have twenty years in the music industry,
Speaker 2: What am I going to do for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life? What's going to light me up? And I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna retire. I'm just gonna sit there lovely. I
Speaker 2: got my kids with my family and my wife. That's lovely.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. But I'm not like that. I need something
Speaker 2: to fire me up. Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Which is like I said, why I did this thing,
Speaker 2: all of these different companies that I've created, But the
Speaker 2: biggest thing now that really lights me up, Jay, is
Speaker 2: seeing what's happening with this new generation of Asian artists.
Speaker 1: I was about to ask you it really is.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. Man. I I am, as you probably know,
Speaker 2: haven't done an album for a long time. Okay, a
Speaker 2: lot of people you man, when you're gonna do another album,
Speaker 2: And you know what my answer always was, there's what
Speaker 2: I said, honestly, is what I used to say. Nobody
Speaker 2: cares about an album anymore. They just want music content.
Speaker 2: If you, let's say your favorite arts, let's just say
Speaker 2: Drake for example. Let's just say you're waiting for a
Speaker 2: Drake album, and it's like a Guys, I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: back in three years. I'm gonna just work really hard
Speaker 2: on this in this day and age that we're in
Speaker 2: with our attention spans, ain't no, I'm waiting three years,
Speaker 2: which is why he could turn one out a year.
Speaker 2: But that's Drake. But people don't want to wait around.
Speaker 2: So I used to just said, I said, forget album.
Speaker 2: That model is old. It's an old notion. I'll just
Speaker 2: keep giving you music. I'll just keep putting it up.
Speaker 2: It's on my Spotify, it's some Apple music. And I
Speaker 2: did that consistently for years, and through doing that, I
Speaker 2: sort of like, you know, just spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time on these streaming platforms. I started discovering all this music,
Speaker 2: which to me was reminiscent of what me and Rishi
Speaker 2: and JUGI were doing twenty years ago. So all of
Speaker 2: a sudden you had these kids from India singing in
Speaker 2: Punjubbi but they're singing over like a drill beat and
Speaker 2: there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists.
Speaker 2: And I was like, this fusion stuff is happening again,
Speaker 2: except this time it's happening with these twenty year old
Speaker 2: kids who are living in India, who have basically grown
Speaker 2: up with access to the Internet from the moment there born.
Speaker 2: They got this device. So yeah, of course they're listened
Speaker 2: to Bollyword and then listen to all this stuff, but
Speaker 2: they're also listening to Travis Scott and they're listening to
Speaker 2: you know, and then Rihanna whatever it is. So that
Speaker 2: was us twenty years ago, and I, when I tell you,
Speaker 2: something happened inside me. It just started bubbling. I was like,
Speaker 2: I need to get in front of these kids. I
Speaker 2: need to soak up their energy. It's that youthful energy,
Speaker 2: that excitement because they're not jaded. They're not they haven't
Speaker 2: even stepped into the industry yet. They're just kids having fun.
Speaker 2: That's who I was twenty years ago, and it lit
Speaker 2: me up and I said to Jeremy, and of course
Speaker 2: it was the best news you ever heard. I was like, Jeremy,
Speaker 2: that's it decided. Man. He was like, you're what an album?
Speaker 2: I was like, yep, and we're going to India. That's
Speaker 2: why we're doing it. He's like, great, never been to India.
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, this is going to be fun
Speaker 2: for you, bro.
Speaker 1: So we did.
Speaker 2: We went to India this year and I recorded three
Speaker 2: quarters of my album in India with these guys, these
Speaker 2: immenseally talented kids whose faces were just lit up from music.
Speaker 2: There was no journey, they hadn't even been on a
Speaker 2: journey yet. There were no obstacles, there was no problems,
Speaker 2: there were no highs and lows. It was just love
Speaker 2: for music. And this album for me, now, I'm so
Speaker 2: excited about it because again, it came from a place
Speaker 2: of joy and excitement, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so it's so interesting, how
Speaker 1: like even that with the going back to your Rocky
Speaker 1: story example, there's Rocky five where he trains Tommy Gunn Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like that whole feeling of he gets his
Speaker 1: enthusiasm back because he's back in there he's with a
Speaker 1: young guy who reminds him of himself, and like, again,
Speaker 1: there's such a need for us to always go and
Speaker 1: be with the beginner again and go to the source again,
Speaker 1: and we miss out on that in life because the
Speaker 1: higher you get again, less randomness I means you spend
Speaker 1: time with the same people. You're not spending time with
Speaker 1: the person who's at the grassroots, who's got their finger
Speaker 1: on the pulse. And all of a sudden again you're disconnected. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're disconnected, Yeah, completely disconnected.
Speaker 2: And that's so right, man. I felt myself going. I
Speaker 2: felt like through through my journey and through twenty years.
Speaker 2: You know what's really interesting is that it's very easy
Speaker 2: to age yourself out the game, right it is. And
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's funny. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've ever too, if any of the other artists who
Speaker 2: you've had on your podcast I've ever talked about this
Speaker 2: ageism is a funny thing in the music Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we are in the music industry. It's weird, right, Like,
Speaker 2: if you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to
Speaker 2: play older roles. Yeah, and sometimes they've become even better
Speaker 2: because they've been active for so many years and.
Speaker 1: Now right, well, now I feel like most like main
Speaker 1: the main actors like in movies are fifty years old, right,
Speaker 1: that's like the standard age if you actually checked their age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting. So in a way, the more
Speaker 2: time you spend there, the more years you put into
Speaker 2: that craft will actually play off. I mean, let's say
Speaker 2: if I was a doctor right now, I'll probably be
Speaker 2: a consultant within a few years. The more years you
Speaker 2: put in, you step up the ladder. And whereas music,
Speaker 2: it's like the more years you put in, it's like
Speaker 2: you're ending. You're going closer towards the finish line, and
Speaker 2: they're like, come mate, enough, now I get off stage.
Speaker 2: No one wants to see a fifty year old dancing around, right,
Speaker 2: And it's a very weird thing. If again, if I
Speaker 2: didn't have a sense of humor about that, I could
Speaker 2: be like, who are you to tell me when to
Speaker 2: stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too
Speaker 2: old to be on that stage? Who are you to
Speaker 2: tell me that I have not done anything great since
Speaker 2: that song or this song? But I do understand, I
Speaker 2: do understand. It's kind of awkward and cringe worthy. At
Speaker 2: some point if you see some people who aren't self
Speaker 2: aware enough to understand that, Bro, maybe you shouldn't be
Speaker 2: dancing right now, go and sit on a stool. Make
Speaker 2: the song acoustic, and let's just get that audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Being able to let go of a former
Speaker 1: identity that worked, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's right. That's so interesting. And the thing is, quite
Speaker 2: often we're frozen in time. I'm frozen in time on
Speaker 2: those plaques in my house and in Jeremy's house, there's
Speaker 2: a baby face Jasehwan, And I look at him, and
Speaker 2: I see that young boy, and I see what he's achieved,
Speaker 2: and I'm proud of him. But I'm also very aware
Speaker 2: that maybe I don't want to keep doing this ten
Speaker 2: years down the line. Who knows, I mean, truth be told.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Snoop and all these guys said that they
Speaker 2: wouldn't be rapping.
Speaker 1: I feel like your favorite artists redoing songs that are
Speaker 1: either nostalgic. I think nostalgia is such a big part
Speaker 1: of music, right, You listen to music to feel that
Speaker 1: way again. To me, exactly like.
Speaker 2: For me with us, she too.
Speaker 1: I don't think I should have made a load of
Speaker 1: new music in recently, it's like to me when he
Speaker 1: did You Remind Me, obviously, and there was this scene
Speaker 1: in that You Remind Me video where the song shuts off,
Speaker 1: but he's on that silhouette of that, you know, the
Speaker 1: son's in the background, and he did that on stage
Speaker 1: and for me, I was just like, that's all I
Speaker 1: want to see because to me, it's like that is
Speaker 1: exactly where I was at sixteen. I remember trying to
Speaker 1: do the moves and failing exactly, and I still anything.
Speaker 1: I don't dance. Yeah, but that's the thing. And it's
Speaker 1: like if Eminem picks up a mike ever, I will
Speaker 1: be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean watching Beckham in his documentary Take three Kicks
Speaker 1: and Happily words, David Beckham play football any day of
Speaker 1: the week because there's there's a feeling there that you'll
Speaker 1: never get because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will
Speaker 1: never change. Like if you had a positive experience watching Rocky.
Speaker 1: I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad
Speaker 1: used to watch Rocky together, so it will never Rocky
Speaker 1: will never ever be old or boring for me because
Speaker 1: you know, I've watched Rocky a million times, Bro, every
Speaker 1: word of all of them, even Rocky five, even though
Speaker 1: they say it's a bad one. I still love Rocky
Speaker 1: love it right.
Speaker 2: But Bro, you you bring up such a good point.
Speaker 2: It's such a true point. Yeah, which is why I mean,
Speaker 2: if you go to Vegas White why all of the
Speaker 2: biggest acts are noster I act. But they put you
Speaker 2: in a place where you just feel they transport you
Speaker 2: back in time. What can ever transport you back in time?
Speaker 2: As well as music? Does you know where you were,
Speaker 2: what you were wearing, what girl you were dating? You
Speaker 2: know all of that stuff. You know, when you listen
Speaker 2: to a song, you know where you were, and it's
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. But it's really funny. You reminded me
Speaker 2: of something when he said about the Rocky thing, right,
Speaker 2: and you were saying again just to go back to that.
Speaker 2: The other day when I was watching a document his documentary,
Speaker 2: and I'm not not going to spoil anything for you.
Speaker 2: There's some of the scenes are in his house in LA.
Speaker 2: You've probably been to his house.
Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't. I've only met him once and
Speaker 1: he was amazing. Dude. Yeah, I've only met once and
Speaker 1: he's amazing.
Speaker 2: I hope. I'm so glad he lived up to what.
Speaker 2: But here's a guy who's been acting for what fifty
Speaker 2: years now, fifty fifty years in the game, and what
Speaker 2: was his biggest breakthrough here? Rocky Rocky one biggest breakthrough here?
Speaker 2: But then fifty years of more films. Now, if Sylvester
Speaker 2: Stallone is walking down Sunset Boulevard and me and my
Speaker 2: maid or whoever was there and they saw him, oh
Speaker 2: my god, or just any person sees him, what do
Speaker 2: you think he hears every day of his life? Your Rocky? Right,
Speaker 2: that's what we do. Now. He could take that in
Speaker 2: one of two ways, couldn't he. He could either go
Speaker 2: shut up, I've done like a hundred films what he
Speaker 2: keep going back to Rocky? Or he could go, yo,
Speaker 2: I get it because I love Rocky too, and Rocky
Speaker 2: for me changed my life. And I know you guys
Speaker 2: love Rocky totally. And he took Rocky his baby that
Speaker 2: changed his whole life. And instead of rejecting it and
Speaker 2: going you remind me of the fact that maybe I've
Speaker 2: never topped you, instead of doing that, He's like, come here,
Speaker 2: I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in
Speaker 2: my swimming pool in my house, and I will have
Speaker 2: all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and I
Speaker 2: will embrace you and I will be grateful for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that I really love that because I think the
Speaker 2: problem as artists is that sometimes we want to when
Speaker 2: we do a show, right, people are waiting.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: You go see Michael Jackson. It's Michael Jackson. He has
Speaker 2: some of the biggest best songs on planet Earth, one
Speaker 2: of the biggest pop stars that ever lived. What are
Speaker 2: people waiting for? And you want to see him do
Speaker 2: his dance and moonwalk and he's probably like, I'm Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson and that's what you're waiting for, bijeon.
Speaker 1: Oh great, of.
Speaker 2: Course they are, because that's why they fell in love
Speaker 2: with him, and that's why they fell in love with
Speaker 2: Rocky and they're the people who for me in American man,
Speaker 2: they fall in love with down. So when I do
Speaker 2: my shows and stuff like that, whatever it is, even
Speaker 2: if I've got new songs, I'm not turning my concert
Speaker 2: into me. I'm not turning it into Hey, guys, I
Speaker 2: know that you loads of songs that you guys want
Speaker 2: to hear, but I'm actually gonna spend the next forty
Speaker 2: five minutes singing my brand new album not doing it.
Speaker 2: They don't care because they don't know it. The show's
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, It's such a good point. And I love
Speaker 1: this idea of you know, every we all and whether
Speaker 1: it's age, whether it's time, whether it's changes in life,
Speaker 1: there is a part of your identity where you have
Speaker 1: to shad, you have to let go, like everyone has
Speaker 1: to do that. And what's amazing is I actually saw
Speaker 1: what you just said you don't do happen recently. I
Speaker 1: won't name the aryst I'll tell you after it. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you after it. Right. So it comes on stage
Speaker 1: and we're waiting for this song, right, waiting and he's
Speaker 1: he's the he's the first act before the main stage.
Speaker 1: But it's still an artist that I love, and I'm
Speaker 1: waiting for the song. The beat comes on and we're
Speaker 1: all there and yes, like me and Radi and our
Speaker 1: friends that we went, we're really excited. And then ten
Speaker 1: seconds into the track they cut the beat and he goes,
Speaker 1: you think I'm going to do that? Here he goes,
Speaker 1: you think I'm going to give you that alsong? He
Speaker 1: goes in Oh, thirty years of songs to give you,
Speaker 1: and then he goes plays all these songs that we
Speaker 1: didn't recognize and he actually did that, and it was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, you just took away my moment, Bro.
Speaker 1: I wanted you to do that song. Not because I'm
Speaker 1: limiting you, not because I think you have no other hits.
Speaker 1: You actually a really talented but that song is so
Speaker 1: special and iconic. Yeah, that I need to hear it.
Speaker 2: I need to hear it.
Speaker 1: And I felt like ten seconds of it was all
Speaker 1: he gave us. And then and then he never went
Speaker 1: back to it, and I thought, oh, maybe he gave
Speaker 1: it ten seconds, he'll go back set finished. Didn't get it,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's exactly that feeling.
Speaker 2: Of our own stuff.
Speaker 1: But you're saying we're dealing with that. We're all dealing
Speaker 1: with that. We all have a trapped identity somewhere. All
Speaker 1: of us have what you're saying somewhere, and somehow we're
Speaker 1: actually mad at it, right, it's annoyed by it rather
Speaker 1: than welcoming and embracing it. And I think about that,
Speaker 1: it's been ten years since I left the monastery. I'm
Speaker 1: a very different externally, a very different person. Today, I'm married, businesses,
Speaker 1: we have you know, media, we change where we live,
Speaker 1: like so many things. But in my heart, I'm the
Speaker 1: same person. I'm a very different Externally, my life has
Speaker 1: different things. Of course I've changed. People change to me,
Speaker 1: they've changed, but I embraced that experience. It's a massive
Speaker 1: part of me. But I found that whether you embrace
Speaker 1: or reject, people always have an issue with it because
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to them if it doesn't fit
Speaker 1: into their version of how they perceive you. It's complicated,
Speaker 1: and I think for me, I've I've learned to accept
Speaker 1: that I need to give myself permission to be who
Speaker 1: I am today, to be who I was ten years
Speaker 1: ago and who I will be ten years from now,
Speaker 1: and I promise you it won't be the same. And
Speaker 1: I need to give myself permission to allow that. And
Speaker 1: I think we when you see, like you said, when
Speaker 1: you see silves and give himself permission, I was. We
Speaker 1: had Arnold Schwarzninger on the podcast. He's the same. He
Speaker 1: has he has the original Terminator outfit in his place,
Speaker 1: he has alien, he has everything, and he loves it
Speaker 1: like he really loves it. And I love him for
Speaker 1: it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you to you of
Speaker 1: course you should. You crushed it and you're not trying.
Speaker 1: He's not trying to be determinator anymore. He's not trying
Speaker 1: to be But he loves it. He loves was doing
Speaker 1: we want. My social media manager asked him a question
Speaker 1: on the way out, and they said, do you have
Speaker 1: any last words? And you're like, I'll be bad, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he loves it, and I love it, and I love
Speaker 1: it and.
Speaker 2: Give him what they want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love him for it. And he's not
Speaker 1: he's not disingenuous, he's not inauthentic, he's not stuck in
Speaker 1: the past. He's a really he was great to chat to.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, man, all these people were talking about
Speaker 1: but Jay, I could talk to you for hours. I
Speaker 1: think we have. Yeah, we have been. I could genuinely
Speaker 1: talk to you guys, and I love this and I
Speaker 1: think we've What I love about this conversation, genuine is
Speaker 1: I feel like we've drawn like you pulled out Rocky,
Speaker 1: and I think because we have that, we we've drawn
Speaker 1: this really nice arc and narrative for people. And I
Speaker 1: hope everyone who's listening and watching this I really hope
Speaker 1: that you find your own rocky journey, like genuinely in
Speaker 1: your own way as you've seen mirrored in your life
Speaker 1: that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end
Speaker 1: every episode with a final five or the Fast five.
Speaker 1: Jay Sean Dizzi your Fast five. The first question is
Speaker 1: what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Spend so much time on self improvement that you have
Speaker 2: no time to criticize. Others love it.
Speaker 1: That is great advice and no one's ever said it
Speaker 1: on the show. Second question, what is the worst advice
Speaker 1: you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: It sounds so stupid, but it's like when you get
Speaker 2: the big money, nobody told me how to spend it
Speaker 2: or invest it? So great point, right, And nobody told
Speaker 2: me anyway about that go buy some houses instead of like,
Speaker 2: you know, wasting on stuff like that. So I wish
Speaker 2: I actually got some advice on that how to manage money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, that's good. I hope, I hope all Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope everyone is coming into new money is hearing that?
Speaker 1: Question Number three, what has been the gift of parenting
Speaker 1: that you didn't expect? Because I know you're a great dad, and.
Speaker 2: That is no longer. The world is no longer about me,
Speaker 2: My job is no longer about me, My life is
Speaker 2: no longer about me. It's all about It's all for
Speaker 2: my kids. All of this now is for my kids.
Speaker 2: And it's the most beautiful thing. Is there's nothing more
Speaker 2: that grounding. You know, then when you can be a
Speaker 2: pop star and famous around the world, but you come
Speaker 2: home and you're just daddy. It really is the cutest.
Speaker 1: Question Number four, What is the thing that surprised you
Speaker 1: most about the music industry in twenty years?
Speaker 2: How much how much of a change technology would have
Speaker 2: on it. It's literally flipped it on its head. It
Speaker 2: is a totally different animal. There's one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: thousand new songs that come out every day now every day,
Speaker 2: every day, one hundred and twenty thousand new songs come out.
Speaker 2: So you imagine trying to put get yours is just
Speaker 2: a needle in a haystack. And so many people can
Speaker 2: be independent. You could do whatever you want. Don't need
Speaker 2: that big record deal anymore. Although I do have a
Speaker 2: record company that I've started for South Asian Talent that
Speaker 2: that's my way of giving back.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and that's what I want to use all
Speaker 2: of my twenty years for.
Speaker 1: Bro.
Speaker 2: All of my experience is to now pass it on
Speaker 2: to the next generation. So I have experienced it, I
Speaker 2: know all about it now, so now it's my turn
Speaker 2: to be able to help other people through.
Speaker 1: I love that you're doing that as well, because I
Speaker 1: think there's your need for that support. I was probably
Speaker 1: the two you know, I was the guy watching jump
Speaker 1: off but too scared to go on. Right, that's it,
Speaker 1: you know, I.
Speaker 2: Know you love.
Speaker 1: I think the age, but but no that idea of
Speaker 1: like there's just I think there's any I'm so happy
Speaker 1: that you're doing that. Honestly, when I heard about that,
Speaker 1: that was amazing. And so Sata can't come to the event.
Speaker 1: I was on a plane. I was out of town.
Speaker 1: Fifth and final question, if you could create one law
Speaker 1: that everyone in the world had to follow, what would
Speaker 1: it be?
Speaker 2: The obvious thing for me to think that the world
Speaker 2: is missing right now is kindness. So what if there
Speaker 2: was a law that every person that you meet you
Speaker 2: had to do a kind act. But if there was
Speaker 2: a law that you had to do one random act
Speaker 2: of kindness a day and I think that could go
Speaker 2: on to make the world a better place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would beauty, I think so. I love it.
Speaker 2: Even if you didn't want to do it, if it
Speaker 2: was a law and you knew you had to do
Speaker 2: a random act of kindness for somebody, that could have
Speaker 2: a knock on effect.
Speaker 1: Because it would make you do it even end of
Speaker 1: the day, like you exact figure it out. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it, Jay, Sean. Everyone, I'm so grateful Jay, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2: Thank you bro, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, this is so much fun.
Speaker 2: I knew it would be. I mean, it would be
Speaker 2: yapping on for hours. I don't even know how long.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd have to ask these guys. But no,
Speaker 1: that was awesome man. Thank you so excited for people
Speaker 1: to continue to listen to your new album on Spotify?
Speaker 1: And where do you Where do you like as an
Speaker 1: Actually that's a great question as a musician. Where do
Speaker 1: you like people to discover your work? Now?
Speaker 2: Well, the streaming obviously, the streaming platforms is where it's
Speaker 2: all at, right, so everybody knows that whatever they have
Speaker 2: a favorite stream but whatever you like it will obviously
Speaker 2: be up on there. But really, Also, I love being
Speaker 2: on TikTok man.
Speaker 1: I know you do.
Speaker 2: You know, TikTok for me is actually a really cathartic
Speaker 2: tool because it allows me to my silly, goofy sense
Speaker 2: of humor I allowed. It allows me to just be
Speaker 2: a human being rather than just an artist. So yeah,
Speaker 2: if you guys want to just follow me on TikTok,
Speaker 2: it's just at jay Sean and all all of the
Speaker 2: usual stuff is very easy. It's just at Jayshan everywhere.
Speaker 2: So yeah, man, brother, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Fun man ma man, if you love this episode, you'll
Speaker 1: really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your
Speaker 1: inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.
Speaker 2: My fears are only going to continue to show me
Speaker 2: what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears,
Speaker 2: the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom,
Speaker 2: and I just want to keep doing that.