1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Kuric is a production of I 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Katie Kuric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic, 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: and welcome to Next Question, where we try to understand 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: the complicated world we're living in and the crazy things 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: that are happening by asking questions and by listening to 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: people who really know what they're talking about. At times, 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: it may lead to some pretty uncomfortable conversations, but stick 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: with me, everyone, let's all learn together. Today we're talking 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: about sex, and you may not want your kids to listen, 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: but you definitely should, and not just your run of 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: the mill missionary stuff. We're talking about scary sex. And 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm using the words scary because a recent study showed 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: that nearly a quarter of women in the United States 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: say they have felt scared during sex. That's because there 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: seems to be a culture of coersion going on where 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: expected and sometimes unwanted sex like anal sex and choking 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: is happening more and more, and experts believe it has 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: to do with porn and how it's shaping heterosexual relationships. 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: In particular. I felt like I was hearing about this 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: everywhere I went. I was having coffee with a friend, 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: and she told me that health clinics on campuses, we're 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of college students with anal fissures. I 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: even casually asked my gynecologist about these new and yes scary, 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: sexual trends when I was getting a pap. Smere how appropriate, 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: and she answered with an emphatic yes. She told me 26 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: she hears this from her patients all the time, and 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: she had just had this very conversation with a young 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: woman the other day. So here's my next question, What 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: the hell is going on here? I'm all for consenting 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: adults doing what they want, but where is this sexual 31 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: pressure coming from? So I asked my doctor if she 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: was willing to put me in touch with that patient. 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: He told me that the harder I choke you, you'll 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: have a better orgasm. He's like, haven't you ever seen 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: one of those videos where the guys choking the girl 36 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: and she just has the best orgasm of her life. 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: And I said no, He's like, believe me, you will. 38 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: That's the patient my doctor had told me about. Trish, 39 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: a thirty year old therapist studying to become a psychologist. 40 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: She just ended an eight month relationship with her boyfriend. 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: There were certain things that I felt very uncomfortable with. 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: When it came to sex. He enjoyed sweet sex, but 43 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: there was also a side where he wanted to have 44 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: rough sex as well, which made me feel a little uncomfortable. 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: When you talk about rough sex, what do you mean 46 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: by that? Rough sex? Meaning that he liked to choke, 47 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: he liked to pull hair, he liked to do anal sex, 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: which I've never done before until recently. And he just 49 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: wanted to almost do a porn like kind of sexual 50 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: intercourse almost which didn't feel very authentic, but felt kind 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: of acted out, almost like he was performing somehow. Yeah, 52 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: like he and he was performing like and he wanted 53 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: me to perform with him as well. Did you talk 54 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: to him about it? No, I didn't. When he would 55 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: do certain things, I always expressed a little discomfort. He 56 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: would always say, I'm not going to hurt you. I 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: didn't feel like I could talk to him about it 58 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be that girl, you know, 59 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: that girl that doesn't want to please her boyfriend, that 60 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: girl that's you know, just kind of like a wet 61 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: blanket almost. You didn't want him to think you weren't 62 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: game or fun, yeah, or adventurous and wanted to be 63 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: sexy for him, wanted to please him, and that's how 64 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: he like to be pleased during sex. Were you surprised 65 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: when this happened when he asked for anal sex. I 66 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: was surprised. Even when I told him that I wasn't 67 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: comfortable doing it, he said that we're going to have 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: to get you used to it sounds terrible. I think 69 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: he had a lot of influence by porn and watching 70 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: what's going on in those videos, and he wanted to 71 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: act it out with me. Did you talk to him 72 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: about porn? Did he ever discuss it with you? He did. 73 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: He did tell me that he does watch it when 74 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm not home or when I'm not around. One day, 75 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: I was on the computer and I went through the 76 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: history and I saw that he was watching it when 77 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: I was at home, and I saw a name of 78 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: a video called Brunet Girl Gets Punished. I didn't bother 79 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: opening it because I can only imagine what's that video. 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: But I could imagine there's a lot of anal sex 81 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: going on, rough sex, hair pulling, and everything that he liked. 82 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: I think it turned him on to see a woman 83 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: almost telling her boyfriend or whoever she's having sex with. No, 84 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to the first time he tried to 85 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: choke you, did he ask permission or did he just 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: do it? He just put his hand around my neck 87 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: and started gripping it. I was on top and he 88 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: was just looking at me, and he just put his 89 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: hand around my neck and he started gripping tightly, and 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: I could feel his grip getting tighter and tighter, and 91 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: then I put my hand on top of his and 92 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: I pulled it away and I told him, easy, don't 93 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: choke me like that. I don't like it. And then 94 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: he eased his grip. But that wasn't the last time 95 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: he choked you. He continued to yeah, but gently over 96 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: the next few weeks. Did you ever feel like you 97 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: couldn't breathe? Yes, there was a time where he was 98 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: behind me and he put his arm around my neck 99 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: and he was almost gripping me in like a in 100 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: a chokeold and he was going a little too tight 101 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: where I felt like I had to use both my 102 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: hands to pull him off, And he was just so 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: into it that I don't think he realized how hard 104 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: he was going. Where I had to scream his name, 105 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: and I told him get off of me, and then 106 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: I just I was like, I'm not doing this, and 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: I had a fight with him and that was the 108 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: end of that. Do you think porn shaped your boyfriend's 109 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: view of what sex should be. Yes, I believe so, 110 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: because sex is, in my opinion, it's supposed to be intimate. 111 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be between two people who love each other, 112 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: and it's supposed to feel comfortable for you both. It's 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: not feeling comfortable for the other person. Are you really 114 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: having sex? What are you doing? Are you acting out 115 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: of fantasy, which I felt like, what was what was 116 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: going on? Or are you replicating what you've seen? Yes? 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: I think he was replicating what he was seeing on 118 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: those videos. It was heartbreaking to listen to Trish, and 119 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: I wondered how many other young women were experiencing this. 120 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: I asked her if this was something she talked about 121 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: with her friends. I don't discuss anything with my friends 122 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: like that because I don't even know where to begin 123 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: and tell them that my boyfriend is doing anal sex 124 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: with me and he wants to put his hands around 125 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: my neck. It's almost embarrassing to say. I have great friends, 126 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: but at the same time, I feel like my friends 127 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: would be like, what are you doing in this relationship? 128 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: If you're not happy or if he's doing this to you, 129 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: you know it's not respectful. He doesn't love you. And 130 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear those things because I do 131 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: believe that he loves me. It's just those are the 132 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: things that he likes. I remember one time when we 133 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: were having sex, I was like talking to him in 134 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: a very vulgar way, and I told him, I want 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: you to put your hands around my neck, just to 136 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: see what he would say. I've never seen him look 137 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: so excited when I told him to do that. I 138 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: just wanted to see what he would say and what 139 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: his reaction would be when I said that, and it 140 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: turned him on like crazy. Did that give you pleasure? 141 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: It didn't give me pleasure when he was doing it, 142 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: but it gave me pleasure to see that he was 143 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: enjoying it. I can't imagine someone doing that to me. 144 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: I would be terrified and more than uncomfortable. I think 145 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: I would be afraid. But this was something that you 146 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: were willing to do because you saw that he liked it. 147 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: Even if you didn't, do you feel this was consensual 148 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to say yes, because at the end of 149 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: the day, I still allowed him to do it, not 150 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: because I wanted to, but I wanted to please him. 151 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: So in me, I still allowed him to choke me. 152 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: I still allowed him to do anal sex with me. 153 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: I could have easily said no and fought with him 154 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: and expressed my concern and that's not what makes me comfortable. 155 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: And we should make each other happy. It's not just 156 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: one way. But I didn't do that. I don't know 157 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: about you, but I was completely floored. Here's an attractive, 158 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: educated woman who allowed herself to be subjected to this. 159 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: Clearly porn played a big part in Tricia's relationship, which 160 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: she did eventually end. So why is this happening? To 161 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: find out, we tracked down the foremost expert on the 162 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: effects of violent porn. If he gets his kicks out 163 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: of choking you, I'm blocking off your passages while he 164 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: is aroused. I would be a big concerned about being 165 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: around with such a person now in today's culture. Of course, 166 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: he's learned that from Paul. We'll have more on that 167 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: right after this. Tricia's story was unsettling, to say the least, 168 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: but not isolated. As we've mentioned, a quarter of women 169 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: are experiencing sex with partners that frightens them. So where 170 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: is this coming from? When I was growing up, if 171 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: a guy would have said to me, would you mind 172 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: if I ejaculate on your face and choke you as 173 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm having sex? I would have thought she was a 174 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: psychopath and run. That's Dr Gail Dines, a professor of 175 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: sociology and women's studies. She has spent over thirty years 176 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: studying porn and sexual violence, and she's also the author 177 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: of porn Land How Porn has Hijacked our sexuality. Okay, 178 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: so my question to you would be, you know what 179 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: quote your interest about this topic. I was at a 180 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: conference in California. A man came up to me. We 181 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: started talking. He said, you know, you should really look 182 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: into doing something on the effects of porn on young men. 183 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: We had a speaker at my son's school and she 184 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: really shocked the parents because she asked them questions about 185 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: certain sexual acts that their kids were probably experiencing, or 186 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: that people were pressuring their kids into doing. Do you 187 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: know what those three sexual acts are? What we know 188 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: from studies is that the three major sex acts in 189 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: porn is number one ejaculating on a woman's face and 190 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: increasingly in her eyes. The second major sex act is choking. 191 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: First is choking with a penis to the penis so 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: far down the throat that she begins to gag. The 193 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: third major act is one of them of these called 194 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: a t M, which actually translates to ask to mouth, 195 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: where the penis goes into the anus and then into 196 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: the mouth without washing. This sounds extreme. It sounds like, 197 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have to go spent fifteen minutes looking 198 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: for these. These are the things that in eleven year 199 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: old boy when he puts porn into Google, this is 200 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: the only thing he's going to see. I don't want 201 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: to even instruct people how to do this necessarily, you know, 202 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: but Google it so it's ubiquitous and it's accessible. When 203 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about porn hub, which one, but he's free 204 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: and he's accessible within six seconds, five seconds, four seconds. 205 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: You just put porn hub in and there you go. 206 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: And this is where the boys first go to because 207 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: it's free and because he's so accessible, and he's anonymous, 208 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: and that's drives demand. We spoke to one boy who 209 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: had this to say, I am fourteen and the age 210 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: that I discovered what pornography was was probably around tennish. 211 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: It's not very difficult at all. I mean you can 212 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: find it on almost any browser anything. You can find 213 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: a way to get it. It's all anonymous and it says, oh, 214 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: you're the eighteen plus, But I mean there's nothing to 215 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: verify it, like, there's not even a like slider to 216 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: put your age or anything like that. No other industry 217 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: is as unregulated as the porn industry. This is one 218 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: of the things I want to ask is how have 219 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: we managed to have this multibillion dollar a year industry 220 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: which is virtually unregulated completely. It is an outrage that 221 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: this has happened. Just let that sink in. Instant anonymous 222 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: access to hardcore porn, seven millions of hardcore videos and 223 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: no age verification whatsoever from your phone, laptop, tablet. And 224 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: here are the scary statistics. A third of young people 225 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: have seen porn by the time they're twelve years old. 226 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: Eight percent of top rented or downloaded porn contained scenes 227 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: depicting violence against women. How have they been able to 228 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: stay under the radar? I would say through complete willful 229 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: ignorance on the part of adults who have been charged 230 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: with taking care of teens. I have lobbied politicians along 231 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: with some very very powerful child lobbyists who've worked with me. 232 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: The porn industry is actually targeting young boys. It's not 233 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: like the politicians don't know. There is no desire in 234 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: this country to go after the porn industry. And let 235 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: me just say one thing. Giving out free porn to 236 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: kids is the equivalent of me standing out in middle 237 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: school giving out free cigarettes. I wouldn't be allowed to 238 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: do that. I wouldn't be allowed to stand outside and say, 239 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: you know what, I'll be here tomorrow and tomorrow. Porn 240 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,239 Speaker 1: harb gets more visitors than Netflix, Amazon, and Twitter combined. 241 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: Porn is about a third of the Internet. But you 242 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: could say it is one of the largest above ground 243 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: industries in the world that is trading on misogyny and 244 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: violence against women. So a lot of the boys and 245 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: young men who are being brought up on pornography are 246 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: playing porn sect out on these girls. The women and 247 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: girls are the collateral damage of the porn industry. It 248 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: sounds to me like it's this tragic alchemy of violent pornography, 249 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, low self esteem for women, and a hook 250 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: up culture, and I would add in I think loss 251 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: of real feminism, because once you have a feminist analysis, 252 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: it gives you, as a woman a sense of understanding 253 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: the world like nothing else and a sense of agency. 254 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: My experiences with young women is that they've got nobody 255 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: to talk to, nobody has helped them navigate this. They 256 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: feel like they're drowning and yet been socialized in this 257 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: culture to think that you have two choices. You're either 258 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: fuckable or invisible. You heard Trish's story, she was so 259 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: honest about it. I'm sure you've heard stories like hers 260 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: before when you listen to Trish. Was that a fairly 261 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: typical Yes? I mean I hear those stories, and I 262 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: hear them from younger women. By the way, I've increasingly 263 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: been speaking in high schools and I hear them from 264 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: high schoolers as well. Very very typical. Now, this is 265 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: the norm of what's going on, and I think it's 266 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: hard for older women to really know what it's like. 267 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Trit initially thought it was consensual. She liked pleasing her boyfriend, 268 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: and she's talked about him getting incredibly aroused when she 269 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: suggested he choke her. So was it consensual? No? Because 270 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: like all women, and I'm all of us included here 271 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: is that we are socialized to please men. And I 272 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: cannot believe that any one of us, given a socialization 273 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: where we felt truly liberated in this world, would agree 274 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: to being choked and being fearful in sex. But you 275 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: say yes because really what's on offer, no doesn't exist, 276 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: So you have to say yes to what you can stand. 277 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: And saying yes and negotiating to what you can stand 278 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: is not consent. It's just survival. It's women surviving in 279 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: a toxic, patriarchal poorm culture. So no, it is not consent. 280 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: And we have unfortunately trained our girls not to really 281 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: understand the way in which we have had our voices 282 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: taken away from us, our sense of power taken away 283 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: from us. Not only are we traumatizing our girls through 284 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: porn culture, but we are traumatizing a whole generation of boys. 285 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: We now know that most boys across the Western world 286 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: use pornography as their major form of sex education. What 287 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: does it mean to that eleven year old boy to 288 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: masturbate two images of sexual violence? This is a much 289 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: deeper issue of traumatizing our boys. And when you traumatize 290 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: our boys, sexually and you work into their sexual template 291 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: hardcore porn, then what you do is you traumatize our 292 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: girls because they then play that out on the girls. 293 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 1: So we are basically laying waste to a generation of 294 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: girls and boys through mainstream hardcore free pornography. We wanted 295 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: to ask some teenagers about their experiences with porn. This 296 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: is what they had to say. I'm fifteen years old 297 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: and I'm a sophomore in high school. The first time 298 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: I remember seeing porn, it's probably when I was twelve 299 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: years old. I'd say the first time I was very 300 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: disturbed by um. An image in porn was probably a 301 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: reference to like rape. For the most part, women are 302 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: portrayed as the almost like the vehicle for the dudes. 303 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 1: Um it sounds weird, satisfaction or whatever. I'm fifteen and 304 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: I'm currently a freshman. I believe I was either eleven 305 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: or twelve when I first discovered prenography. I know of 306 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: videos of like gang bangs or raping women on those sites. 307 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: It's is really just not a good thing. It signs 308 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: real light them what some people could describe as entertaining. 309 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: I know of rumors that girls do like to be 310 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: choked but that's not I know for a fact that's 311 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: not all of them. The anal sex intrusion thing, I 312 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: honestly think that's just messed up. That's probably pretty scared 313 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: you a god just assumes that's what they want. I'm 314 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: seventeen years old. I'd say I first started to understand 315 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: what pornography was in fifth grade. I'd say I first 316 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: saw porn around maybe six or seventh grade. I would 317 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: have been twelve or thirteen. In porn, females are usually 318 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: depicted as the main focus is their body. That's pretty 319 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: much it. In the majority of porn, the guys and 320 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: not necessarily asking permission to do anything. I just expected 321 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: that the woman will go along. I think that it 322 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: can lead to like men having that attitude towards women 323 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: are just having misogynistic thoughts. There are definitely a lot 324 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: of guys that are watching like violent horn. Wow. I 325 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: know it's pretty overwhelming and such graphic language. But where 326 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: do we go from here? It seems like the genie 327 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: is out of the bottle, right, But don't worry, there 328 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: is hope, and it comes from a surprising source. A 329 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: sex ed teacher at a Quaker school. More on that, right, 330 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: after this, So what are you supposed to do with 331 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: all this? It's hugely depressing and if you're a parent, 332 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: you probably want to crawl into a hole right now. 333 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: Alvernacchio is a teacher in Winnwood, Pennsylvania, outside Philadelphia, and 334 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: he has what he thinks is the best solution for 335 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: dealing with this porn culture. What happens today is that 336 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: young people, because of the great vacuum of information or conversation, 337 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: they encounter this material and they are curious, and they 338 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: are turned on, and they are hungry for information, and 339 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: they think, well, nobody's talking to me, this must be it. 340 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: We need to be able to not only counteract that message, 341 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: but start at a much younger age saying, when you 342 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: see stuff like that, that's actually not what sex is about. 343 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: That's not what relationships are about, that's not what intimacy 344 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: is about. That's performance. That's fantasy, and not even fantasy 345 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: in terms of the good, helpful fantasy that can teach 346 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: you something useful, the fantasy that is sort of corrupting 347 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: and that gives messages that are the opposite of what 348 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be trying to do as human beings. 349 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: How do you do that, though, would you say to 350 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: a boy when he's eight years old or nine years old. 351 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: We've heard how young they are when they first are 352 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: exposed to porn. Hey, there's this stuff out there called pornography, boys, 353 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: and I want you to be aware because if you're 354 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: trying to pre empt this kind of cultural conditioning, if 355 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: you will, or visual stimuli, you have to introduce it 356 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: at a very young age. Absolutely, And parents and carrying 357 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: adults might choose to actually talk about pornography with eight 358 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: year olds, I don't. What I talk about with eight 359 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: year olds is gender equity. And let's look at the media. 360 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: What are eight year olds looking at their watching cartoons, 361 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: they're playing video games. Let's take a look at the 362 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: way that characters are portrayed in those games and are 363 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: treated based upon their gender. And are they seeing messages 364 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: that male characters are always in charge? Are they seeing 365 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: messages that it's unusual to see a group of superheroes 366 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: that's largely female dominated. It's usually a bunch of guys 367 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: and one or two women. And just beginning to ask 368 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: questions about what do you think that's about? Why do 369 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: you think there aren't more women's superheroes that you're looking 370 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: at in your comic books. What's that saying about the 371 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: place that girls and women have in the world. We 372 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: begin with what's in one of them, and we help 373 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: them begin to ask questions so that when they do 374 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: encounter material like hardcore pornography, there primed to ask that question. 375 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, that woman is being used completely as 376 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: an object. And I've already been told that whenever we 377 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: treat a human being as an object, that's disrespectful, that's devaluing. 378 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: So what are the transferable skills that we can do 379 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: in sexuality education early on that when they get to 380 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: be high school kids in my class and I can 381 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: talk to them explicitly and frankly about pornography, that I 382 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: can say, you're not just hearing these ideas for the 383 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: first time. We've been talking about it for years in 384 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: our classes. You know, remember what I said when you 385 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: were in nursery school about who gets to be a princess? Well, 386 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: that has applications when we look at material like this. 387 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: The problem is our culture is oh afraid of talking 388 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: about human sexuality, is so afraid of sexuality education because 389 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: they don't understand what it really is. That we run 390 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: from it and I think parents, and I don't fault 391 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: parents for this. Parents don't have training, parents don't know 392 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: how to begin these conversations. So part of my job 393 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: is also to be with parents and to say this 394 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: is how we can do this. These are some questions 395 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: you can ask, these are some conversations you can have, 396 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: and helping them feel empowered to be able to talk 397 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: to the young people in their lives. I think it's 398 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: so funny because I'm a progressive sexuality educator, but a 399 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: lot of the things I talk about sound like what 400 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: people used to refer to as like, you know, good 401 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: wholesome values. Because what is healthy sexuality. It's pleasurable, it's respectful, 402 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: it's authentic, it's honest. None of those things are about porn. 403 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: And so those messages alone are really instrumental when they 404 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: then hit this material. So they have some sense, some 405 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: critical awareness to be able to say, wait a minute, 406 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm not just going to get swept up in this 407 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: and just be carried away by it. I'm going to 408 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: at least have a moment where I can say what's 409 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: going on here. So part of your curriculum is really 410 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: values education, absolutely, and you set the table so that 411 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: when young men and young women encounter this kind of material, 412 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: they can be critical thinkers and analyze it. But you 413 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: also talk about porn informed sex ed. And that means 414 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: that when they are of the appropriate age, or when 415 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: they start to understand that this kind of material is 416 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: out there, you talk about it pretty openly. Sure. So, 417 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: for example, in my ninth grade class, one of the 418 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: questions that I want to ask, and that conversations I 419 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: want to have with kids is what does it mean 420 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: when we say have sex with somebody? How is that defined? 421 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: Because what are culture says, and what the porn culture 422 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: certainly says is that sex is about, you know, conquest 423 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: and power and penetration. Yeah, a lot of the conversations 424 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: about sex, you know, have some kind of requirement of 425 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: penile penetration. Right, So I say to kids, if you 426 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: are defining sex solely by behavior, you know, a penis 427 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: goes into this body part, that's what counts as sex. 428 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: What does that definition mean? Look at what it doesn't say. 429 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: Doesn't say anything about consent, doesn't say anything about mutual pleasure, 430 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: doesn't say anything about connection. So then I get to say, well, 431 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: what if we made a definition of sex that wasn't 432 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: about what we did, but about the way we did it. 433 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: What if we said sex was a consensual, mutually pleasurable 434 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: sexual activity that help people connect. If that's a definition 435 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: that you grew up with around what sex is supposed 436 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: to be, then when you come to look at porn, 437 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: you're going to say that's not sex. Well, that's not 438 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: the definition of sex that I learned now. I know 439 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: that's a radical shift, but I think part of what 440 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: good sexuality education is about is confronting those assumptions that 441 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: we don't want to talk about in society and saying, no, 442 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: let's reframe that, let's look at it a different way. 443 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: And when we do that, we really can create opportunities 444 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: for insight and awareness and for kids to grow in 445 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: authentic directions that aren't just guided by these sort of 446 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: ruts that they want to get forced into. Are you 447 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: an anomaly or do many teachers now use this approach. 448 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm not an anomaly. Many of my colleagues are doing 449 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: this work, but we are few in number. In the 450 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: United States, only twenty states currently mandate any kind of 451 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: sexuality education in schools, and only thirteen of those states 452 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: require that the education be medically accurate. What Yes, only 453 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: three states specifically say that you cannot promote religion in 454 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: the teaching of sex said, even our legislation is so 455 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: far behind and gives us so little support in doing it. 456 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: I happen to work in an independent school. I think 457 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: that's where you're seeing a lot of progressive sex said, 458 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: Although certainly I have colleagues working in public school systems, 459 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: and I get called into a lot of public schools 460 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: to give talks to students and to faculty and to parents, 461 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to do that. But you know, I 462 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: think where Gail is working really at the level of 463 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the power brokers. You know, my work 464 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: is really a lot in the grassroots. I'm talking directly 465 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: to parents and to kids and to teachers and just 466 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 1: trying to say to them, here's ways where we can 467 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: all be having these conversations and we can have an 468 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: impact on kids, a really powerful positive impact, And why 469 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: aren't we doing that? Sadly, we all can have an 470 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: al bnachio in our lives. So we're going to close 471 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: things out by bringing Gail back in and having al 472 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: stick around. What can parents do? What can be done 473 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: about the peign culture? We find ourselves then okay, well, 474 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: this was the question we asked ourselves, a culture reframed 475 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: what can we do? And what was very clear when 476 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: we brought together public health experts, pediatric nurses, at lesser psychologists, 477 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: sexual health experts, is we need to educate parents. All 478 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: public health research shows that the more educated and the 479 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: more skilled parents are, the more robust and the more 480 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: healthy their kids will be. So when we looked around 481 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: and we thought, well, you know what's out there for parents, 482 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: to my absolute shock, there was nothing. There was no 483 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: online program to help parents. So what we did is 484 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: we brought together eight of the top consultants in the 485 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: field multiple fields pediatrics, adolescent psychology, sexual health, and we 486 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: built a thirteen module online program for parents to teach 487 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: parents about puberty, about pornography, about st d s, about 488 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: how to even have the conversations with you. Because you 489 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: really have a how to website for program. The whole 490 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: program set out where you can go on for five minutes, 491 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: five hours, twenty hours, is free. You just have to 492 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: sign up and anyone can access it. And it's for 493 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: parents of tweens. At this moment, we are now about 494 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: to build the parents of Teens program, So we started 495 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: with nine to twelve year olds because we hope that 496 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: you could get to them before the point industry could. 497 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: That's up there, fully finished, and then in January the 498 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: Parents of Teens program will be up. All I know 499 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: this is something you're trying to do not only teach kids, 500 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: but you're also trying to equip parents. Absolutely. In my book, 501 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: which is called for Goodness, sex Changing the way we 502 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 1: talked to young people about sexuality, values and health, it's 503 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: really written for parents and caring adults who want to 504 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: get better at talking to young people about healthy sexuality. 505 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: It has examples of things you might say, It has 506 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: ways to answer questions. It talks about pornography specifically in 507 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: one of the chapters, so that's a resource. I think 508 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: they're also amazing resources that are there. Amazed dot org 509 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: is a terrific website that is doing very short animated 510 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: films for parents of middle schoolers, talking about everything from 511 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: body image to consent to pornography. So there's good information 512 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: out there. We have to help parents get to that information. 513 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: What I would say to a parent who wants a 514 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: quick solution and this is not my idea comes from 515 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: Debbie Roffman, who's an amazing sexuality educator, is lose the 516 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: idea of having a big talk around the dinner table. 517 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: You know, it's always better to have a hundred one 518 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: minute conversations with your kid than having one minute conversation 519 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: with your kid. My dream would be to be able 520 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: to write those one minute conversation and get them online 521 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: so parents can say, here's a woman at conversation about 522 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: body image, here's a one minute conversation about consent, here's 523 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: a one minute conversation about porn. Because they're all kind 524 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: of they're kind of entwined, aren't they. From what I 525 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,479 Speaker 1: heard today from Trish, her willingness to do things that 526 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: she didn't feel comfortable about that were shaped by porn 527 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: that was consumed by her boyfriend. And so it all 528 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: seems to be connected, doesn't it. And you have to 529 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: work on these core values. But when it comes to 530 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: porn itself, what is the best thing a parent can do, Gail, 531 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: in terms of really being an antidote to the violent 532 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: porn their kids might be consuming. Well, I think the 533 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: most important thing is to talk about gender equality. And 534 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: when we say respect, it's not just about respect for women. 535 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: It's self respect for boys as well. We have put 536 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: the bar very low on how boys think about their 537 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: own bodily integrity and their own bodily boards. And we 538 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in the program and culture. 539 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: If I'm talking about how do you teach a boy, 540 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: then in fact he's got his own boundaries and boarders 541 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: to respect, not just also respecting girls boundaries and boarders. 542 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: And I think the most important thing is what Al 543 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: said is you scaffold you start at an early age. 544 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: You obviously don't talk about one which is a five 545 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: year old, but you can talk about the factors. What 546 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: right does somebody have to touch somebody who they don't know, 547 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: And then as you go up develop mentally, that becomes 548 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: around sex and what right do they have to do that? 549 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: So you have to have many conversations. And I have 550 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: to say this porn culture gives you a thousand teachable 551 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: moments a minute. You're just going down the stream and 552 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: you've got this big picture from Victoria's Secrets of a 553 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: woman with barely any clothes on. There's a teachable moment. 554 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: Ask your kid, how often do you see a woman 555 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: walking through the street like that? And why is it 556 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: a woman? Up there and not a man. What do 557 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: you think that says about the difference between women and men? 558 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: You have that conversation and then you move on. You 559 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: don't do these long lectures because then, of course, you know, 560 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: you could think, to your most stupid person in the world, 561 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: abound eleven or twelve, and it doesn't want to hear 562 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: too very long. So use everything you see as a 563 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: quick teachableman, and then move on and go and get 564 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: an ex screen. But use the culture and all the 565 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: toxic things the culture offers you to basically reframe it 566 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: in a more progressive feminist way. And conversely, al you 567 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: have to have positive Well that's what I was just 568 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: gonna say. The other thing that I want to add 569 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: is boys are learning so much today about toxic masculinity, 570 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: which is really important. But we also need to teach 571 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: boys about what does positive, non toxic masculinity look like. 572 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: So we want to help we we want to absolutely 573 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: make sure boys know when they're straying into or when 574 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: they're being socialized into toxic masculinity. But what does masculinity 575 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: look like that's not toxic. I don't know that we're 576 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: doing a good enough job to help boys know that 577 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: so that also have that model and help parents kind 578 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 1: of give their boys the values that will teach them 579 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: how to respect girls, their boundaries, all the values that 580 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: you want to impart on them. That is the job parents, 581 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: once you have a kid, Your job is to take 582 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: on the culture in all of its greatness and all 583 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: of its ugliness, in order to make sure and protect 584 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: your children. That is really your job as a parent, 585 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: And you know what, it's a job also of every adult, 586 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: because really they're all our kids. Your kids are my kids, 587 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: my kids are your kids. We are in this collectively, 588 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: and the next generation is only as healthy as our kids. 589 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: Gail and Al, thank you both so much. I've learned 590 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: so much, and I think this is such an important conversation. 591 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. Wow, are you as freaked 592 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: out as much as I am? I guess kids are 593 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: naturally going to be curious about sex. A friend of 594 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: mine told me recently she had found some hardcore porn 595 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: that had been downloaded on her desktop. She found out 596 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: it was her eleven year old son, and he had 597 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: shared it with his nine year old brother. The good news, though, 598 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: is they had a conversation about it. The bad news 599 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: most kids are doing this without their parents knowing. I 600 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: don't think we're going to ban porn on the internet, 601 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: and I'm not even sure laws will work, but clearly 602 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: we need to be talking about this with our kids, 603 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: and as our guest Trish showed us, with our partners too, 604 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: and I think porn informed sex said is absolutely imperative. 605 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening, everyone, and until we meet again, 606 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: make sure to follow me on Instagram. I'm at Katie 607 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: Curik and sign up for my daily newsletter is called 608 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: wake Up Call, and you can do that by going 609 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: to Katie Currek dot com. Next Question with Katie Curic 610 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Curic Media. 611 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Katie Kuric, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Julie Douglas, 612 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: and Tyler Clang. Our show producers are Bethan Macaluso and 613 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Dylan Fagin. Associate producers 614 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 1: are Emily Pinto and Derek Clemens. Editing is by Dylan 615 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: Fagin and Old Berlante. Our researcher is Barbara Keene. For 616 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: more information on today's episode, go to Katie currect dot com. 617 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: And follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie correct. 618 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I 619 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 620 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.