Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Hi. Just a few quick announcements at the
Speaker 1: top of the show for some upcoming live shows, and
Speaker 1: here they come. First, we are doing a live show
Speaker 1: in l A on November nine at The Ruby and
Speaker 1: we are covering Home Alone with guests tomorrow Yegiah, She
Speaker 1: is the Best, awesome, And this is our last show
Speaker 1: at that location because the Ruby is moving to a
Speaker 1: different spot. So you don't want to miss this show.
Speaker 1: It's very special and it's the last time we're doing
Speaker 1: a live show at that specific spot. And if you
Speaker 1: don't come, we'll set an eleborate booby trip and you
Speaker 1: be upset. Also, because today's episode is Colorado adjacent, we
Speaker 1: want to say we are coming to Colorado specifically Denver.
Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? So we're gonna be co headlining
Speaker 1: a few stand up shows on November six when at
Speaker 1: nine pm, when at ten thirty, they're both at Bar Max.
Speaker 1: The nine pm is very close to selling out. To
Speaker 1: be sure to come to one of those. Also on
Speaker 1: November seventeen, the next day, we are doing a live
Speaker 1: becktel cast show at the Buntport Theater in Denver. We
Speaker 1: are covering the Santa Claus. Oh my god, I'm so
Speaker 1: excited with special guest Grace Thomas. The Elf is hot,
Speaker 1: so if you live in the Denver area, please come out.
Speaker 1: We would love, love, love, love love to see you
Speaker 1: and Grace is incredible. So yeah. Tickets and details for
Speaker 1: all of those shows Denver and l A are on
Speaker 1: becktel cast dot com and click on the live tab there.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode on the beck dol Cast. The questions
Speaker 1: asked if movies have women in them, are all their
Speaker 1: discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism
Speaker 1: the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the beck
Speaker 1: del Cast. Hello and welcome to the becktel Cast. My
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Dronte who It's love. That's my very
Speaker 1: clever way of people pay me to do this. Okay,
Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus. Oh sorry, and this is
Speaker 1: the Bectel Cast podcast about women in movies. That's right. Yes,
Speaker 1: we used the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point,
Speaker 1: which is a media metric created by cartoonists out also
Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wall List Test. Scary. It is very
Speaker 1: scary because what it is. It's a media metric that
Speaker 1: requires that two female identifying characters with names talk to
Speaker 1: each other about something other than go who is a man? Oh? Man?
Speaker 1: This is electric? Feel my blood at the surface of
Speaker 1: my skin. Can we demo the test? Yeah, let's do it, Hey, Jamie,
Speaker 1: All work and no play makes Caitlin a dull woman.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit you with the bat. It's violent, but
Speaker 1: it passes unlike well, actually, can we say that unlike today?
Speaker 1: But if someone was just like, oh, they spoiled it
Speaker 1: at the beginning, that's my favorite criticism of our podcast.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, they said it at the beginning, So
Speaker 1: why would I keep fucking listening. I'm like, I guess
Speaker 1: you're just not the demo? Wait have people had that criticism?
Speaker 1: I read all the iTunes reviews. Please please leave a
Speaker 1: nice one. Please do please leave a nice this Halloween season.
Speaker 1: Please pay be kind, be kind to each other this Halloween.
Speaker 1: No tricking or the only treating just for us, Just
Speaker 1: treats us. Please. But yeah, we're talking about the shining
Speaker 1: today and we have an incredible guest. We certainly do.
Speaker 1: She is a comedian, she's hilarious. We love her. She's
Speaker 1: about to move to New York City. Ever heard it?
Speaker 1: So we had to get her on before she moves
Speaker 1: New York. Let's here. He's welcome her with open arms.
Speaker 1: It's Corey Johnson, welcome here. I'm here, red Rum, red Rum,
Speaker 1: It's red round season. It's no, it's not. Don't don't
Speaker 1: read round each other. Okay, so we're talking about the
Speaker 1: Shining Stanley Krubrick. Yes, Corey, what is your history relationship
Speaker 1: with the movie? Have you read the book? Read the
Speaker 1: book so I could understand the movie in general and
Speaker 1: just compare them. I like the book better but than Also,
Speaker 1: the cinematography of the movie is really amazing, vibrant, captivating,
Speaker 1: and it's just you said, nineteen eighty. I don't know
Speaker 1: how he still looks Jack nicholsonce it looks so old?
Speaker 1: Am I talking about the wrong movie? No, it's like
Speaker 1: I was. I was thinking the same thing. I was
Speaker 1: just like, how old is he in this movie? And
Speaker 1: he's like in his forty looks like but he looks
Speaker 1: like hell. Look but maybe that just means he's doing
Speaker 1: a good job job. Yeah. I don't think that was
Speaker 1: to a compliment. She looks like hell. But you know, Jacky,
Speaker 1: Jack's going to hear this and he's going to be livid.
Speaker 1: So Jack has and I mean to tell you this
Speaker 1: that Jack contributes to our Patreon and it really gives
Speaker 1: that five dollars, so we really need it. Times are tough. O.
Speaker 1: My bad, didn't know. I didn't get the Sorry Jack,
Speaker 1: Sorry Jack, Sorry Jack. I'm sorry Jack. There's actually this
Speaker 1: is a bit of a tangent at the beginning. Cancel me,
Speaker 1: but friend of the pod, Mary Hulihan just wrote a
Speaker 1: very funny show that people should see if they're in
Speaker 1: the area. She's New York based, but it's called Me
Speaker 1: and Jack and it's this fictional account of how she
Speaker 1: dated Jack Nicholson. But Jack Nicholson is too busy playing
Speaker 1: is PS four to pay attention. It's really funny, all right, Yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: that sounds good. It's very Jamie asked, that's something up
Speaker 1: Jamie's alley, and that's really good. The grin on Jamie's
Speaker 1: face right now, I cannot explain. I'm still laughing filing. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you read the book in the movie a couple
Speaker 1: of times. I like the movie. I don't know what
Speaker 1: else to say. Shelley Duval's teeth um will be licked
Speaker 1: by me one day. She's alive, right, very cool. I
Speaker 1: tweeted about it so sad to say it. That's the rule.
Speaker 1: What's your history with that kid? I have not read
Speaker 1: the book, which makes me nervous to talk about this movie,
Speaker 1: in particular because I feel like I don't know Stephen King.
Speaker 1: Heads out there are like Stephen King. And then when
Speaker 1: we do a movie adapted from a book and you
Speaker 1: know every What I'm trying to say is, listeners, remember
Speaker 1: that we're not a book podcast. We're not an adaptation podcast.
Speaker 1: I still am suffering from whiplash from Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings over a year ago, where I'm just like, listen,
Speaker 1: it's a free podcast, take it or leave it, Okay, Relax.
Speaker 1: So I have not read the book. I have seen
Speaker 1: the movie a fair number of times I would say
Speaker 1: probably like six or seven times throughout my life. And
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I did not. I
Speaker 1: did not see that coming. I did not mean to
Speaker 1: say it like that, embarrassed, but I do enjoy to
Speaker 1: the movie. You have not pronounced anything correctly. The day
Speaker 1: Pin Milan, I was getting so nervous because we have
Speaker 1: to say you and McGregor seriber. I'm sure I pulled
Speaker 1: out that last one. I want, Well, clearly, I'm up. No,
Speaker 1: it's adorable, but you're a fan of the movie, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: I saw this movie on my first day of college.
Speaker 1: I had like a cool college roommate who was like,
Speaker 1: there's a little movie theater I know about in the
Speaker 1: corner of Boston. And I was like, how, like we
Speaker 1: just out here, But she just had that like cool
Speaker 1: person instinct, and she found a screening of The Shining
Speaker 1: and I went. And I went to college with no
Speaker 1: knowledge of like cinema per se. I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of movies, but I hadn't seen much cinema. Um, and
Speaker 1: I really liked it, and it was like it became
Speaker 1: one of my faiths for a little while. I've like
Speaker 1: seen the documentaries and then Room two three seven. I
Speaker 1: had to stop because it made me so furious. It
Speaker 1: was yeah, and then and then uh and then In
Speaker 1: recent years, I have like I learned more about Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 1: Don't ask me, I already made fun of you and
Speaker 1: I don't even notice I, you know, dragged me. But
Speaker 1: I've learned more about him. I've watched documentaries about him specifically,
Speaker 1: I've watched him of his older stuff and now I'm
Speaker 1: just like, it's a beautiful movie, but I don't love it. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's dive into the recap. Shallby Yes, you can interject
Speaker 1: in the recap and them's the rules absolutely all right.
Speaker 1: So Jack Torrence played by Jack Nicholson, he gets a
Speaker 1: job looking after this huge hotel, the Overlook Hotel, which
Speaker 1: is nestled into the rocky mountains, and he needs to
Speaker 1: look after it over the winter when they close because
Speaker 1: of the harsh weather. Right because and this is in Colorado,
Speaker 1: r Colorado. Yeah, I had no idea. Who was Thank god,
Speaker 1: it's the rare Stephen King that doesn't take place in Maine, right, interesting,
Speaker 1: and it's very secluded, it's very isolated. The opening sequence,
Speaker 1: they're driving this might not be funny in anyone but me.
Speaker 1: They're driving through the mountains to get there or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the YouTube video that they used to have back
Speaker 1: in the day where the cars driving and then they
Speaker 1: scare you. You know, I'm talking about literally infamous. It
Speaker 1: looks just like that, and I was like, do I
Speaker 1: turn it off? I was really stoned, but it was like,
Speaker 1: do I turn it off? I didn't realize until i'd
Speaker 1: seen the shining like three times that that's the clip
Speaker 1: that you're it's like, watch the car. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: it is, or it's like a very similar car, and
Speaker 1: then the devil comes out and it's like, so someone
Speaker 1: like edited in like a scary thing Halloween energy. Now
Speaker 1: that you're saying it, it might be an as on commercial.
Speaker 1: Really think it's like a Red Knee sun Ultimate, But
Speaker 1: it's fine. I think we can consider this relevant discussion. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think so. So. The manager of the Overlook Hotel
Speaker 1: tells Jack about this winter caretaker from a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and he's like, just so you know, he did acts
Speaker 1: murder his wife and two young daughters. But Jack is like, so,
Speaker 1: don't worry that won't happen to me, because I love
Speaker 1: being alone, he says. He's like, no, I got this.
Speaker 1: I like being this alone. Yeah. Yeah, because he's going
Speaker 1: to be there working on a writing project. That's what
Speaker 1: tempts him about taking this job where he's going to
Speaker 1: be in isolation, but he will be there with his family,
Speaker 1: um his wife and his wife Wendy and Yell and
Speaker 1: their young son Danny also named Danny. Lloyd plays Danny,
Speaker 1: so really one to ones with the character names. Although
Speaker 1: Mr Hallerand's name is not Scatman Cruthers, which is it,
Speaker 1: Which is a shame. It should Karacter should just be
Speaker 1: called scat Man Cruthers. Yeah, why make it easier for
Speaker 1: Jack and Danny and the rest of the cast has
Speaker 1: to remember a different name. It's almost like they have
Speaker 1: to act upsetting. So the thing about Danny is that
Speaker 1: he's got this kind of like imaginary friend question mark Tony.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe Tony Shalhub. Oh, that'd be fun that
Speaker 1: Tony going to a little therapy, says inside of Danny's mouth,
Speaker 1: it's Tony Bennett. And that's canonically the Sopranos takes place
Speaker 1: inside of Danny Tarnth's mouth. That's what happens at the end.
Speaker 1: They pull out, like at the end of Ben and
Speaker 1: Black when they just like when into the world is
Speaker 1: the galaxy is just like a marble. It's the same
Speaker 1: they do. Don't stop believing, and then it cuts to black.
Speaker 1: But if you keep watching, it zooms out's mouth. So
Speaker 1: he's got this person Tony who lives in his finger
Speaker 1: or his mouth, but he talks to his finger. But
Speaker 1: it all also might be this like kind of clairvoyant possession,
Speaker 1: which we'll learn about a little later on. So the
Speaker 1: family arrives at the hotel and they're shown around. Mr
Speaker 1: Halleran A. K. Scammon Cruther's shows him some stuff and
Speaker 1: then creepy ship starts happening right away, like Danny sees
Speaker 1: the ghost of these two little girls. Danny also has
Speaker 1: this psyche connection with Mr Hallowran and he is like, hey, Danny,
Speaker 1: we have this connection. I also had it with my grandmother.
Speaker 1: She called it The Shining and we're like, hey, that's
Speaker 1: the name of the movie. You're like, and that's why
Speaker 1: they call it that. And when you're get excited, then
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm in here, I'm I'm in and then
Speaker 1: it kind of never comes back, like the word name
Speaker 1: checking the way early. And I do like that actually,
Speaker 1: because when it's towards the end of the movie, like
Speaker 1: they try to make money, you're going to say, and
Speaker 1: that's one million ways to die? Does that happen in
Speaker 1: that movie? No? No? If that was the last line
Speaker 1: of the movie. Loose Day Today. Okay, So Danny and
Speaker 1: Mr Hallyrand have this whole conversation about Tony and how
Speaker 1: he shows Danny things and how the overlook hotel is
Speaker 1: messed up and bad things happened there, and then Danny
Speaker 1: asks about Room two thirty seven and Mr Halloran's like,
Speaker 1: nothing happened there, everything's fine, and don't go in that room.
Speaker 1: So a month passes and the family has settled in.
Speaker 1: Jack is trying to figure out what to write about relatable,
Speaker 1: and then he's doing a packet. He's literally he's applying
Speaker 1: to court him and he's like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't think of any web segments that it's hard. Monologue
Speaker 1: jokes are hard. His niche humor you. So then Jack
Speaker 1: also seems a bit stir crazy because he's like flinging
Speaker 1: a tennis ball against the walls so hard, so so hard,
Speaker 1: so loud, and like, I don't have it was stressing
Speaker 1: me out. That was like every single time they armed
Speaker 1: power that man has anyway, just in observation, it comes
Speaker 1: back with that. Yeah, they're sitting it out up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's this enormous hedge maze that Wendy and
Speaker 1: Danny walk through for fun, you know, and we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're setting it up, planting payoff baby. Then Danny rides
Speaker 1: around on his big wheel through the hotel and then
Speaker 1: he rides past Room two three seven, and he's like,
Speaker 1: hikes scary, but then he rides away and it's a coward.
Speaker 1: He's a coward. Is at this point when Jack starts
Speaker 1: being especially emotionally abusive and his mental state is starting
Speaker 1: to unravel. Really the second people leave, he drops the
Speaker 1: act and becomes an abuser. Yes, we'll talk all about it.
Speaker 1: It starts to snow outside. The phone lines go down,
Speaker 1: so Wendy radios the I think it's like the Parks
Speaker 1: department nearby or something. Yeah, some of some like vague,
Speaker 1: unhelpful and identity and they're like, yeah, the phone lines
Speaker 1: are going to be down to spring. So then Danny
Speaker 1: sees the ghost twins again and they're like, can't play
Speaker 1: with us, Danny, forever and ever and ever, and then
Speaker 1: all that poor little Katy looks so scary. He's so
Speaker 1: scary because he also has sees a vision of them
Speaker 1: having been as murdered and the halls are all bloody
Speaker 1: and he freaks out, understandably so, and Jack is getting
Speaker 1: even creepier and more unhinged. He tells Wendy about a
Speaker 1: Nightmary had where he killed her and Danny and chopped
Speaker 1: them up into little bits. Then Wendy notices some bruises
Speaker 1: on Danny's neck and she thinks that Jack hurt their son,
Speaker 1: and Jack is like, I don't know, right, And then
Speaker 1: at this point we already know that he's like hit
Speaker 1: Danny in the past, because he goes to the Gold
Speaker 1: Room to blow off some steam, because it's like this
Speaker 1: lounge e bar area, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: there's a bartender there, and there's also a whole party
Speaker 1: going on that's a little later, but there, and Jack
Speaker 1: tells this bartender, Lloyd, about this one time when he
Speaker 1: lost his temper and accidentally hurt Danny a few years ago.
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson is great in that scene. It is so scary. Yes,
Speaker 1: his performance overall is quite stunning. I'll say, wow, what
Speaker 1: can I say? He's our biggest fan. He loves us.
Speaker 1: It's true. He gives us five dollars every month, sixty annually.
Speaker 1: So Wendy comes running in frantically to the room and
Speaker 1: apparently there's this lady in one of the rooms who
Speaker 1: tried to strangle Danny. Jack's like, what room is it?
Speaker 1: And then he goes into it and guess what it's
Speaker 1: room to thirty seven and there is a young naked woman,
Speaker 1: so he naturally starts to make out with her. Because
Speaker 1: you're not like confused or why is she here? How
Speaker 1: did she get here? You go, oh, she's naked, and
Speaker 1: every young naked woman wants to make out with Jack Nicholson.
Speaker 1: But then as they're making out, she turns into like
Speaker 1: a rotting zombie lady, as also happened as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean well, yeah, older women have to be associated
Speaker 1: with body horror, just like Justasha. So Jack freaks out,
Speaker 1: but when he goes back to tell Wendy about it,
Speaker 1: he's like, I didn't see anything, not a goddamn thing,
Speaker 1: and she believes and she well, she's like, how did
Speaker 1: this happen? What about Danny's bruises? And Jack's like I
Speaker 1: think He's like, I think Danny did it to himself.
Speaker 1: And Wendy is freaking out and she's growing increasingly concerned
Speaker 1: about the safety of her and her son and she
Speaker 1: wants to get Danny out of there. And Jack does
Speaker 1: not like this idea, and he yells at her and
Speaker 1: he storms out, and then this is when Jack goes
Speaker 1: back to the banquet hall and it's not full of
Speaker 1: people who are like ghosts question Mark from the nineties, right,
Speaker 1: and one of them is Mr Grady. He was the
Speaker 1: caretaker who acts murdered his family. And Grady's like, no,
Speaker 1: that's not me, Mr Torrence, You're the caretaker. By the way,
Speaker 1: your son is being meddlesome and like you should put
Speaker 1: him and your wife in their place. Meanwhile, Danny is
Speaker 1: trying to telepathically communicate with Scatman brothers to get help,
Speaker 1: and Mr Hallerand is like trying to reach the hotel
Speaker 1: by phone but he can't get through. Meanwhile, Jack dismantles
Speaker 1: the radio and then Mr Hallyerrand flies across the country
Speaker 1: to try to get to the um, but the snowstorm
Speaker 1: keeps like dumping down snow everywhere. Mr Hollern is the
Speaker 1: realist for almost no read like the shining things like
Speaker 1: well that kid, he knows the sordid history he was in,
Speaker 1: like Miami, yeah he was in Florida, goes a long way, yeah,
Speaker 1: spends all that money on a plane ticket. Just a
Speaker 1: good man, is uh So. Then um, Wendy finds the
Speaker 1: manuscript that Jack has been working on all this time,
Speaker 1: and it's famously pages and pages of all work and
Speaker 1: no play makes Jack a doll boy. It's a cordon packet.
Speaker 1: That's my cord back the corn and packet I turned in.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm staffed. Congratulations, I got it. He
Speaker 1: I got wow. Congratulations. Um. So, then Jack approaches her
Speaker 1: as she's like looking at his incredible comedy writing, and
Speaker 1: at this point he is completely unhinged and he's screaming
Speaker 1: at her. She's terrified of him. She's swinging a baseball bat,
Speaker 1: she's defending herself. Good. She manages to hit him on
Speaker 1: the head, and then she drags his unconscious body to
Speaker 1: the kitchen and then locks him up in like this
Speaker 1: pantry storage room. I liked how obvious it was that
Speaker 1: they used to stunt Jack because they cut all the
Speaker 1: way away like Jack. Jack Nicholson was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: even gonna start to fall, and then cut the stunt
Speaker 1: Jack who like eats ship and dowstairs. And then you're like,
Speaker 1: and there's Jack again, who gently walked down the stairs
Speaker 1: and laid laid himself down. So then she goes outside
Speaker 1: to the like snow cat snowmobile vehicle to try to escape,
Speaker 1: but Jack has cut the wires and the tubes and everything.
Speaker 1: So she's trapped there and Danny is yelling about red Rum,
Speaker 1: which spoiler murder backwards. Okay, you didn't have to ruin
Speaker 1: that for jesus. Sorry, sorry, it's like telling you who's
Speaker 1: the masked singer. You simply don't do it. Forgive me,
Speaker 1: forgive me. Jack. Somehow we don't totally understand how gets
Speaker 1: out of the storage room. Maybe Mr Grady the Ghost
Speaker 1: lets him out, um, and then he starts chopping down
Speaker 1: the door of Wendy's room with an ax and then
Speaker 1: he's like, here's Johnny. Wendy grabs Danny and they try
Speaker 1: to escape out the window. But then this is when
Speaker 1: Mr Hollowran shows up and Jack goes after him murders
Speaker 1: him with an axe, and then Ac is chasing after Danny,
Speaker 1: who runs into the maze. Wendy's back in the hotel
Speaker 1: looking for Danny, and she sees a furry giving a
Speaker 1: blow job to someone, which I totally forgot about. Always
Speaker 1: forget about that scene. What. I'm not sure there's any
Speaker 1: I mean, does that happen in the book. No, So,
Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick's just like L O L random humor absolutely
Speaker 1: does not happen I'm not sure. I this is one
Speaker 1: of those movies where I'm like a million people are
Speaker 1: going to be our. I mentioned like the furry obviously meant,
Speaker 1: but like I couldn't make heads or tails of it,
Speaker 1: nor could I. Okay, okay, tails, funny, Wow, that's going
Speaker 1: in the cordon packet. In the packet it goes. So.
Speaker 1: Then Jack chases after Danny in the maze and he's
Speaker 1: following Danny's tracks in the snow dan a. At one
Speaker 1: point he backtracks a little bit and then he hides
Speaker 1: his tracks, and then Jack gets lost. Danny manages to
Speaker 1: get back out of the maze, He and Wendy escape
Speaker 1: in snow vehicle that Scott man Cruthers arrived in, and
Speaker 1: then we catched the following morning, Jack has frozen to death,
Speaker 1: and then we see a photo of him from nine
Speaker 1: that he is in leaving a lot open to interpretations,
Speaker 1: firing a million annoying YouTube videos, the whole genre of
Speaker 1: speculative bullshit that I don't sorry he would you agree
Speaker 1: when I say that Jack Torrence isn't your average person? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Okay, Well I know something about
Speaker 1: an average person to tell me. Also, for for everyone,
Speaker 1: who was in Jack Torrance out there. The average person
Speaker 1: spent one third of their life sleeping and not awaken
Speaker 1: killing people like Jack Torrance. So you should be comfortable
Speaker 1: while you're sleeping all that time, right right, Well that's
Speaker 1: where Sper comes in. Did you see that coming? Actors
Speaker 1: really could have solved it if he had had Casper,
Speaker 1: I think, well, I mean in too bad. This episode
Speaker 1: isn't about Casper, the friendly little boy girl friendly with
Speaker 1: all his creepy uncles. Right, but this episode is about,
Speaker 1: of course the Shining the movie whose sequel is Doctor
Speaker 1: Sleep because see what I did there? Because Casper is
Speaker 1: a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help
Speaker 1: you get your best rest one night at a time.
Speaker 1: Are you listening, Jack torrens okaying he dies? Casper products
Speaker 1: are cleverly designed to mimic human curves, which provide supportive
Speaker 1: comfort for all kinds of bodies. The original Casper mattress
Speaker 1: combined multiple supportive memory films for quality sleep service with
Speaker 1: the right amount of sink and bounce. Imagine all the
Speaker 1: what do you think the ghosts would use them? You
Speaker 1: know what? I bet they're in every hotel room at
Speaker 1: they overlook hotel. I think things would have ended so
Speaker 1: differently if only if only Casper Mattress have been around
Speaker 1: she was. You know, what they also have is a
Speaker 1: breathable design that helps regulate body temperature throughout the night,
Speaker 1: so you know, the ghosts and people alike won't be
Speaker 1: overheating as they sleep. I worry about goes over here
Speaker 1: like a car. Casper also, Caitlyn has affordable prices because
Speaker 1: they cut out the middleman and they sell directly to you,
Speaker 1: so they got hassle free returns if you're not completely satisfied,
Speaker 1: and they have the free shipping and returns in the
Speaker 1: US and Canada. Now to bring us back to the shining,
Speaker 1: I would say, Jack Torrance really is a middleman and
Speaker 1: he really bifted up. That's right, That's something to think about.
Speaker 1: I think that's very positive. Incredible, incredible connection. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Guess what, you can be sure of your purchase with
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Speaker 1: at Casper dot com, slash TBC four the Bechtel Cast,
Speaker 1: and use TBC at checkout Sweet Dream, which is something
Speaker 1: that we never hear Jack Torrens say, which brings us
Speaker 1: back to what we were just discussing. Wow, tasteful. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot to discuss with this damn movie. There is, Yes,
Speaker 1: why don't we start with adaptation stuff because I think
Speaker 1: that there is like a little more to talk about
Speaker 1: than normal when it comes to adaptation for this specific
Speaker 1: when it comes to the book. But I'll try my best.
Speaker 1: I don't say that I'm so please, You're welcome to
Speaker 1: dunk on us. The one thing that I do remember
Speaker 1: that's different as sorry if it's cutting into late instead
Speaker 1: of him being hit in the head and then being
Speaker 1: dragged away, he had hit his own head climbing over
Speaker 1: a bar. You went to go make himself a drink,
Speaker 1: and he hit his own head and fell, and then
Speaker 1: she found him and dragged So this makes the movie
Speaker 1: makes her more active then yeah, okay, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: There's also so I haven't read the book by spoiled
Speaker 1: it for myself. Some things that stuck out to me
Speaker 1: where first of all, Stephen King hated the creative deviations
Speaker 1: made from the book to the movie, which we'll get into,
Speaker 1: but a few things that stuck out to me, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's other stuff, but I guess. There's
Speaker 1: a point in the book where Wendy considers leaving Jack
Speaker 1: and Danny says, no, I want to stay with him.
Speaker 1: And that's why Wendy doesn't leave sooner, or doesn't attempt
Speaker 1: to leave, even after she knows something is very wrong.
Speaker 1: Mr Hallerin is not killed off in the book. He
Speaker 1: helped them escape. And then there's an epilogue that takes
Speaker 1: place the next summer um and Halleran is working in
Speaker 1: Maine Stephen King, uh, and he's comforting Danny over the
Speaker 1: loss of his dad, and Wendy is like recuperating from
Speaker 1: the injuries that Jack gave her and like there it's
Speaker 1: like this, Yeah, so they like welcome, you know, a
Speaker 1: more stable influence onto their lives through Mr Halleran, and
Speaker 1: they moved to Maine. Because it's a Stephen King book.
Speaker 1: I don't usually like go happy endings, but I did
Speaker 1: really like that ending because it is just adorable and good.
Speaker 1: I'm just really enjoyed it. Um, and it does seem
Speaker 1: like and Corey, I mean, let me know if if
Speaker 1: you agree. This seemed to be just the way that
Speaker 1: the book plays out and what Stephen King has to
Speaker 1: say about it more explicitly about his alcoholism and addiction
Speaker 1: more so than like some weird spirit whatever. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: I I appreciate. I agree with you and appreciate more.
Speaker 1: And the sense that no addiction stuff is like really important.
Speaker 1: It just shows a lot more. It's more realistic to me.
Speaker 1: I'm only really like like realistic things. I mean, besides
Speaker 1: the whole ghost Children and whatever. I like the whole
Speaker 1: point where it's like, oh, it's not like a weird
Speaker 1: like the home doing. It's like, oh, this this guy
Speaker 1: just clearly an alcoholic and abuse of alcoholic and that's okay, No,
Speaker 1: it's not okay, let's think. You know, it just makes
Speaker 1: more sense to me. It just like grounds it a
Speaker 1: little or I mean, I I don't know, it's weird
Speaker 1: because like reading what Stephen King has to say about it,
Speaker 1: um kind of turned me on the movie a little bit,
Speaker 1: just to know that he is so against the way
Speaker 1: specifically Wendy's part is written, so he gave an interview too.
Speaker 1: I believe it's the Guardian, and here's what he has
Speaker 1: to say. He says, quote, the books Wendy does have
Speaker 1: a lot more depth. She's fighting against the revelation which
Speaker 1: she's already made before the book starts, that her husband
Speaker 1: is basically a marginally talented writer who will never really
Speaker 1: amount to anything because he's filled with age, demons, self
Speaker 1: loathing and booze. Whendy feels like her wagon has been hitched,
Speaker 1: and the book is partly about the way she manages
Speaker 1: to unhitch herself and her son from an abusive alcoholic patriarch.
Speaker 1: So the hotel is like a metaphor or whatever. He
Speaker 1: said that about the Zone book. Uh and and he
Speaker 1: and then he later in the same interview describes He says,
Speaker 1: oh sorry this interviews with the BBC. I got English
Speaker 1: publications next up. Canceled me. So he says that the
Speaker 1: film in general to him, seemed too cold. He said, quote,
Speaker 1: I'm not a cold guy. Defensive Does he mean cold
Speaker 1: like literally? Because it's snowy swish in the code we're
Speaker 1: in Uh see you later, Fellas Cordon, They're okay, it's
Speaker 1: if I don't know I'm I would happily you know what,
Speaker 1: you know what? Okay, quote I'm not a cold guy.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things people relate to in
Speaker 1: my book is this warmth. There's a reaching out and
Speaker 1: saying to the reader, I want you to be a
Speaker 1: part of this. With Kubricks the shining, I felt that
Speaker 1: it was very cold, very We're looking at these people,
Speaker 1: but they're like ant and an ant hill, aren't they
Speaker 1: doing interesting things? Shelley daval Is Wendy is really one
Speaker 1: of the most misogynist characters ever put on film. She's
Speaker 1: basically just there to scream and be stupid. And that's
Speaker 1: not the woman I wrote about, unquote dunk, so that
Speaker 1: is not the wrong woman he wrote about, Which is
Speaker 1: interest because I like don't even completely like I don't
Speaker 1: even completely agree that Kubrick's Wendy is stupid or really smart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like really active anything. She's just like she's defensive
Speaker 1: and kind of just like Stockholm syndre me about her husband.
Speaker 1: But like, I feel like a lot of women is
Speaker 1: that misogystic of me this well, just like being inside
Speaker 1: of an abusive relations and being an addict and having
Speaker 1: a kid on to Yeah, that's just how it happens.
Speaker 1: And also they are literally trapped, So there's but that
Speaker 1: that's just for context. That is the main ways that
Speaker 1: it deviates from the source material. And Stephen King still
Speaker 1: does not ride for this movie even five hundred years later. Also,
Speaker 1: apparently there's no maze in the book and instead it's
Speaker 1: like these topiaries that come to life or something like that.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, Visually, this movie is incredible,
Speaker 1: Like it's so good, very well shot. This is one
Speaker 1: of the first movies that used to study cam and
Speaker 1: it is awesome. I love the shots, you know, the
Speaker 1: the big wheel riding around, even the panning in on
Speaker 1: the on the maze and the beginning beautiful. So other
Speaker 1: stuff that is relevant to the discussion is uh, some
Speaker 1: behind the scenes stuff. So the behind this scenes for
Speaker 1: this movie is like deep lore. There's that whole documentary
Speaker 1: room to thirty seven about it. The main takeaway is,
Speaker 1: I mean, Stanley Kubrick did not have an incredible reputation
Speaker 1: among female actors that he worked with, And the most
Speaker 1: egregious example is how Shelley Duval felt about her experience
Speaker 1: working with him. So Stanley Kubrick's daughter, he was like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't let anyone behind the scenes or like document stuff
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, which red flag. He was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want people to remember how I treat other people.
Speaker 1: So cool, but he let his daughter, who I think
Speaker 1: was like maybe twenty or twenty one at the time,
Speaker 1: document some of the behind the scenes, and the full
Speaker 1: thing is available on YouTube. It's like a half hour long,
Speaker 1: but you can see where Shelley Duval said a number
Speaker 1: of times that he was verbally abusive to her to allegedly,
Speaker 1: you know, get this manic, terrified performance out of her,
Speaker 1: but he was like yelling at her all the time,
Speaker 1: is crediting her, saying she wasn't doing a good job,
Speaker 1: just he made her do the take with the here's
Speaker 1: Johnny and then Shelley has the acts one times the
Speaker 1: most documented takes of any like of anywhere recorded um
Speaker 1: and there's like firsthand footage from Stanley Kubrick's daughter of
Speaker 1: him yelling at her on set her cry like her
Speaker 1: crying on set and no one's doing anything to help.
Speaker 1: And so she had a really bad experience with him
Speaker 1: and was vocal about it, even I mean at the
Speaker 1: time and then for years after, and it wasn't until
Speaker 1: maybe the past ten years the people have taken that
Speaker 1: literal firsthand footage seriously of mistreating female actors, because you
Speaker 1: also see him work with Jack Nicholson and he is
Speaker 1: not treated that way, and so, I mean, it definitely
Speaker 1: speaks to the culture on Stanley Kubrick set. It also,
Speaker 1: I'm sure has a lot to do with the era
Speaker 1: of I mean, she was making her out to be
Speaker 1: like hysterical and like, well, if you're doing a better job,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be treating you this way. Um, So that
Speaker 1: is I think an important piece of context specifically to
Speaker 1: Shelley Duval. And the reviews for this movie at the
Speaker 1: time don't mention her performance literally at all, really know,
Speaker 1: it's so good. So it's just it's really frustrating read
Speaker 1: that his mistreatment of her gave her such horrible stress
Speaker 1: that she became physically ill for months and her hair
Speaker 1: was falling out and stuff like that. And I I've
Speaker 1: also heard stories and take this with a grain of
Speaker 1: salt because I didn't do enough reading up on this,
Speaker 1: so this is sort of just like anecdotal stuff I've
Speaker 1: heard over the years, But that he treated Skeettman Cruthers
Speaker 1: the same way, having him do dozens and dozens and
Speaker 1: dozens of takes of the same shot and interesting he
Speaker 1: would be like, do you want me to do differently?
Speaker 1: Like please, just like tell me, like how can I
Speaker 1: make this the take that you want? And Stanley Krubricks
Speaker 1: just like do it again. It's just it's like, incredibly
Speaker 1: I I hadn't read that. That's like incredibly frustrating and
Speaker 1: still the problem that it's like there's an anecdote from
Speaker 1: fucking the Joker movie of just like ship that white
Speaker 1: male leads can get away with on set that their
Speaker 1: co stars just can't. Were like it came up at
Speaker 1: the time of recording the other day where you know what,
Speaker 1: Keen Phoenix is allowed to go totally method. So he's
Speaker 1: just being a fucking dick to everyone and making everyone's
Speaker 1: who's making you know, point five percent of what he's making,
Speaker 1: he's just making their lives way more difficult, except for
Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, who he was very well behaved with
Speaker 1: and turned his character on and off demonstrating almost like
Speaker 1: it's not necessary and he just enjoys being horrible to people.
Speaker 1: So I mean, it's it's something that's still happens. But
Speaker 1: this is like a I think, a particularly egregious example
Speaker 1: of like abuse of power in a director's role. So
Speaker 1: that is bad and also not for nothing. Stanley Cooper
Speaker 1: has a uh not an incredible record of female characters
Speaker 1: in his films either uh he uh put it in
Speaker 1: the cart and packet. He doesn't seem to prioritize female
Speaker 1: characters literally at all. Um, if they're one woman in
Speaker 1: full metal jacket, that might be the full Metal Jacket.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's the movie that famously has that very
Speaker 1: like racist portrayal of like Vietnamese sex workers. It's like,
Speaker 1: that's like those are the only women too. Literally A
Speaker 1: million times, I think those are the only women. And
Speaker 1: as far as I know, on his in his filmography
Speaker 1: or whatever his canonical filmography, the only movie he ever
Speaker 1: makes with a female lead is Low and I can
Speaker 1: speak to That's one of the I've I've seen. I've
Speaker 1: seen a bunch of his movies, but I think that
Speaker 1: The Shining and Lolita are the two that I've seen
Speaker 1: the most because that is I mean, it's obviously super
Speaker 1: controversial work to begin with, but has has been adapted
Speaker 1: horrendously both times. It was attempted, and yeah, Kubrick fucking
Speaker 1: botches it and the only time, and then you know,
Speaker 1: that's in nineteen sixty two, and he's like, I know
Speaker 1: what I'll do, never make a movie abouttle woman again.
Speaker 1: So that and then and then the last little piece
Speaker 1: of the context corner that I'll kick in here is
Speaker 1: that this movie or the screenplay is co written with
Speaker 1: a female author, which, you know, give him a little
Speaker 1: give him a little point at the end. She was
Speaker 1: well known, not of the list at this time, but
Speaker 1: she had never written a screenplay before. This is Diane Johnson.
Speaker 1: Diane Johnson say her name, but yeah, so Diane Johnson.
Speaker 1: I guess Kubrick her work was brought to his attention.
Speaker 1: He liked it, He thought she would be a good
Speaker 1: collaborator on it, and she wrote an essay about it
Speaker 1: last year on a film journal called Scraps from the Loft,
Speaker 1: and by all accounts, it seemed like she had a
Speaker 1: lovely time working with him. So you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: all He didn't sclaim at her and make her cry
Speaker 1: all the time and make her hair fall out. Nope,
Speaker 1: as far as we know, some things are unken. But
Speaker 1: as of but as of eighteen. I mean she describes
Speaker 1: him being like he was kind of notoriously a weird guy,
Speaker 1: but not like he's sure that he's so dead as
Speaker 1: long as he's like fully done. So anyways, that's the
Speaker 1: it's it's a d context corner, but there it is.
Speaker 1: No thank you very much. That's all very helpful. So
Speaker 1: let's get into the narrative the characters. I would here's
Speaker 1: here's here we go. I would argue that there could
Speaker 1: be a feminist read of this movie in the same
Speaker 1: way that there can be a feminist read of Rosemary's Baby,
Speaker 1: for example, a movie that we did talk about where
Speaker 1: even though the female character, because there is really only
Speaker 1: one unless you count the twins acts murdered or naked Lady,
Speaker 1: the one female character in the movie who has any
Speaker 1: narrative significance is not empowered. But I feel like the
Speaker 1: movie it shows the horrors of being a victim of abuse,
Speaker 1: and in this movie, unlike Mary's Baby, she is triumphant
Speaker 1: in the end and she gets away from her abuser.
Speaker 1: And I think that most of the horror in this
Speaker 1: movie doesn't come from any of the like supernatural blood
Speaker 1: gushing out of the elevator, like, none of that stuff
Speaker 1: really affected me. The stuff that affects me is like
Speaker 1: the abuse that she endors. So I chose to to
Speaker 1: watch this movie on my second rewatch through the lens
Speaker 1: of just her being in an abusive relationship, and I
Speaker 1: found that, like all the supernatural ghosts and psychic stuff
Speaker 1: and all that stuff ends up just sort of being
Speaker 1: metaphors for the horrors that take place when someone is
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship. I think that that is the intention. Yes, good,
Speaker 1: I did a good job. Um, yeah, I I agree
Speaker 1: with you too. To the next I mean, it's it's tricky.
Speaker 1: It's I think that it ends up kind of coloring
Speaker 1: my rate of it a little bit when we know
Speaker 1: that they were given more with the source material and
Speaker 1: chose not to use. It feels telling in some ways.
Speaker 1: But she does, I mean, she certainly has a lot
Speaker 1: of agency. Um. I mean, especially as a story goes on,
Speaker 1: it's weird. I mean it it does sort of speak
Speaker 1: to a lot of like the hallmarks of being in
Speaker 1: an abusive relationship where she's saying one thing, but it's
Speaker 1: very clear that she's scared. Uh. There's like a lot
Speaker 1: of examples of her appeasing him to protect herself and
Speaker 1: to protect Danny. Yeah, I mean it's like it's it's horrifying.
Speaker 1: And I feel like there have been some because there
Speaker 1: was after Stephen King like shot upon the movie, there
Speaker 1: was sort of this avalanche of clickbait or thoughtful film
Speaker 1: commentary depending on how you read it, that was agreeing
Speaker 1: with him. But I feel like the in a lot
Speaker 1: of that where they're like, well, she she's made out
Speaker 1: to be, you know, dumb, and she why doesn't she
Speaker 1: even I'm like, well, that's the victim blameing. Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think her care and especially
Speaker 1: Shelley Deval does an amazing job because she you can
Speaker 1: tell she's lying for the most part, and you can
Speaker 1: tell that she's like physically afraid of him, and we
Speaker 1: have reason to be physically afraid of him, and we
Speaker 1: know that the whole movie, which is just like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I did kind of like a beat by beat sort
Speaker 1: of breakdown all the story beats that relate to the
Speaker 1: abuse of relationships. So I just kind of want to
Speaker 1: like go through them and like just sort of analyze
Speaker 1: it a bit. Uh So, the first thing you kind
Speaker 1: of realize is that Wendy seems to be doing all
Speaker 1: of the parenting of Danny, So Jack is very hands off.
Speaker 1: He's focused on his job, both in his hotel duties,
Speaker 1: which he doesn't ever end up actually doing, and Wendy
Speaker 1: does all of it because she's the one who's like
Speaker 1: checking the phone lines, checking the boilers, checking voltage right,
Speaker 1: and because he's focusing on his cordon packet is hard
Speaker 1: so it's not easy to write, so he's not really
Speaker 1: paying attention to to Danny at all. She's doing all
Speaker 1: of the emotional labor of parenting. Was this the dynamic
Speaker 1: of many American families throughout most of history? Yes, but
Speaker 1: that was like the first thing I noticed. Um toward
Speaker 1: the beginning, Wendy brings him breakfast, which she has made
Speaker 1: him eggs, just the way he likes, sunny side up.
Speaker 1: And then meanwhile he has slept into like eleven thirty.
Speaker 1: She's presumably been up for hours, like taking care of
Speaker 1: their son. He expresses no regret at all. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: weird that I slept so late, right, And then yeah, no,
Speaker 1: also no gratitude that she made him and brought him breakfast,
Speaker 1: and then she says, oh, it's a nice day. Would
Speaker 1: you take me for a walk after you finished breakfast,
Speaker 1: and he responds, I need to get some writing done first,
Speaker 1: so they don't hang out. She instead goes on a
Speaker 1: walk through the Maze with Danny. A little while later,
Speaker 1: Jack is typing at his typewriter and then when he
Speaker 1: comes in and she's like, Hey, how's it going. Have
Speaker 1: you gotten a lot written today? And then he basically
Speaker 1: starts be writing, her saying like, you're interrupting me, You're
Speaker 1: breaking my concentration. Please get the funk out. He's ripping
Speaker 1: up paper, he's throwing them. He's like having a tantrum.
Speaker 1: And this is like, I think maybe the first time
Speaker 1: that you see hints that he's like a scary, violent, unhinged,
Speaker 1: abusive person. I always used to read his behavior as
Speaker 1: like being the result of being in isolation and the
Speaker 1: like creepy hotel ghosts stuff like getting to him and
Speaker 1: haunting him. But this time I read it as he's
Speaker 1: always been emotionally abusive. It has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the hotel. He's just a horrible person, and the creepy
Speaker 1: stuff in the hotel is just like metaphors for him
Speaker 1: being a horrible abuser. And it was like at the
Speaker 1: fact that they set that up at the beginning and
Speaker 1: say that this has happened so many times. It sets
Speaker 1: up like the abuse cycle as a metaphor, and somebody
Speaker 1: who doesn't know how to look into things like that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it looks really pretty. The movie is gorgeous,
Speaker 1: And then you guys say that, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: people look movies mean things. It's I mean, but then
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't. But it is like they set up
Speaker 1: the idea at the beginning of the movie that if
Speaker 1: an already angry, rage filled man is left in isolation,
Speaker 1: that they will become violent. Yeah. Then we see that
Speaker 1: scene where he's like yelling in his sleep and then
Speaker 1: he wakes up from his nightmare and he's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I had this awful dream where I killed
Speaker 1: you and Danny and chopped you up into bits, and
Speaker 1: like he's expressing remorse, which I took as like being
Speaker 1: symbolic of like when abusers say to their partners like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I just got angry. It'll never happen again.
Speaker 1: Please don't leave me. I love you. So then shortly
Speaker 1: after that we have the scene where he reveals to
Speaker 1: the bartender that he's accidentally one time he quote accidentally
Speaker 1: lost his temper and hurt says. He says he had
Speaker 1: a momentary loss of muscular coordination, which is just like
Speaker 1: the a very well written piece of fuckory right exactly.
Speaker 1: And then this is also when he starts to be
Speaker 1: vocal about how he blames Wendy for ruining his life,
Speaker 1: for like his mind, turning him into this loser kind
Speaker 1: of person. He says something like, oh, that bitch will
Speaker 1: not let me forget. What happened is long three years ago,
Speaker 1: like it's just like three years ago that oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Then Wendy comes running in and says, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a crazy woman in one of the rooms. She tried
Speaker 1: to strangle Danny, and then his Jack's first response is
Speaker 1: are you out of your fucking mind? So he doesn't
Speaker 1: believe her. She keeps telling him about it, and then
Speaker 1: he goes to investigate, and this is when he makes
Speaker 1: out with a young lady and then corpse lady um.
Speaker 1: And then when he comes back, he lies to Wendy
Speaker 1: about what happened and then accuses Danny of giving himself
Speaker 1: his own bruises, even though I think it's one of
Speaker 1: the more confusing parts of the movie. To me, that's
Speaker 1: like where and I don't know exactly if this deviates
Speaker 1: from the book, but that's the one point where it
Speaker 1: didn't totally track for me Wendy's thought process, because I
Speaker 1: just don't it's she already knows she doesn't trust her husband,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to her son. I don't know
Speaker 1: like that, that's the one point in the narrative where
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't understand why you would take him
Speaker 1: at his word for that. Well, it's like I feel like,
Speaker 1: if anything, it's like everyone in that situation is in
Speaker 1: denial about It's almost the stuff like he's even being like,
Speaker 1: oh no, he did into himself. Because in a way,
Speaker 1: it's also a metaphor of like the abuse part, because
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of abusers were like, oh no,
Speaker 1: they just did this because they did this, and you're like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: they did it to themselves. I also read it as
Speaker 1: like Wendy making excuses just for like, oh, well, survival instinct,
Speaker 1: exactly the way that a lot of abuse victims have
Speaker 1: to do for self preservation. Um. So that's how I
Speaker 1: read that. Uh, And then right after that, whenever Wendy's like,
Speaker 1: we've got to get Danny out of here. And then
Speaker 1: Jack freaks the funk out and he's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: so typical of you to create a problem like this,
Speaker 1: where you know, I finally have the chance to accomplish
Speaker 1: something and you've funked up my life and I let
Speaker 1: you funk it up, but I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: that anymore. So now he's like gaslighting her, blaming her
Speaker 1: for all of his problems. The scene that was most
Speaker 1: jarring and felt like most that metaphor really hit for me,
Speaker 1: is she so right after that, she hits him on
Speaker 1: the head and he falls. She drags him, and then
Speaker 1: after he's locked in the kitchen like freeze or whatever,
Speaker 1: and he's trying to convince her to let him out,
Speaker 1: and that gentle manipulation where you keep where you keep
Speaker 1: cutting back to him fully like laughing at like the
Speaker 1: fact that she's starting to believe that he could be
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And then she like stands her ground
Speaker 1: and she's like, sorry, but I'm leaving and I'm taking
Speaker 1: our son, and like you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 1: hurt us anymore. And then you know, like the reveal
Speaker 1: to her, I guess that he's really never going to
Speaker 1: change and just so, yeah, what happens there? He tries
Speaker 1: three different tactics. First, he's like just irate and screaming, saying,
Speaker 1: get me the funk out of here, like open this door.
Speaker 1: She doesn't comply. The second tactic is, oh, no, you really,
Speaker 1: I think you really hurt me on my head. I
Speaker 1: need a doctor. Trying to like appeal to her more
Speaker 1: nurturing sensibilities also doesn't work. She doesn't fall for it,
Speaker 1: and then she's like, i'mgoing I'll bring a doctor back.
Speaker 1: That's what she tells him. Who knows. I imagine that
Speaker 1: she probably would have just gotten the hell out of
Speaker 1: there and never come back. So she's like, I'm leaving,
Speaker 1: I'll bring a doctor back. And then he's like, you're
Speaker 1: not going anywhere. I snipped all those wires for that
Speaker 1: snow vehicle um, which I think both him cutting the
Speaker 1: wires of the snow cat and he dismantles the radio
Speaker 1: earlier on, I think is a metaphor for when abusers
Speaker 1: cut off communication victims. It's loaded and and it is
Speaker 1: like the fact that she is triumphant is kind of
Speaker 1: especially for like this era and I guess we we
Speaker 1: like Stephen King gets the credit for this because that
Speaker 1: was you know, she escapes in the story as well,
Speaker 1: But like that seems like kind of like a uncharacteristically
Speaker 1: like kind of cool, like, oh she got she got out,
Speaker 1: like and he and he you know, quote unquote got
Speaker 1: his um for for treating them that way. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they're watching it with that in mind. Is like, I
Speaker 1: understand Stephen King's criticisms, and I think that there is
Speaker 1: sometimes something to be said for like if it takes
Speaker 1: you five viewings to get there, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: some people view that as like, oh, it's so deep
Speaker 1: and and you can also view it as like how
Speaker 1: clear should things be in movies? But I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't fall any particular place there. But I didn't
Speaker 1: notice that the first five or six times I watched it,
Speaker 1: I mean same, I was taking it pretty much at
Speaker 1: phase value in terms of like the hotels haunted. Somebody
Speaker 1: who's watching it fifteen times half of the things you
Speaker 1: said I never considered, so I don't even want So
Speaker 1: it's like, how I mean that that's like a more
Speaker 1: existential artiste question will have to ask. And we also
Speaker 1: might be giving because we're doing this like feminist read
Speaker 1: of it, maybe we're giving everything too much credit. Like
Speaker 1: I'm really very like Leary to give Stanley kuber Kuber
Speaker 1: credit too much. I'm but it seems like at least
Speaker 1: a little is out here. But I would also say
Speaker 1: that Diane Johnson was yeah, like she and she has
Speaker 1: a pretty good track record with like, um, she'd written
Speaker 1: a number of like feminist novels prior to this. So
Speaker 1: there's that and and and it's like in the DNA
Speaker 1: of Stephen King's story that she's triumphant and a lot
Speaker 1: of the metaphors were like in the book. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just not hand it to Kubrick and handed to
Speaker 1: the other two people. Um, but yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: is like very and the performance like deserves a lot
Speaker 1: of credit too, because it was, like, god, it was incredible.
Speaker 1: I don't I think it's absolutely it was not necessary
Speaker 1: to abuse her to get that performance. She's given a
Speaker 1: number of performances, but um, yeah, Shelley Deval kills it.
Speaker 1: That said, though, there there were moments where I'm like
Speaker 1: the way like she's running with a knife, kind of
Speaker 1: flailing it around, and it kind of it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just read to me is like a come on,
Speaker 1: can't can't she be a little I don't like, Well
Speaker 1: that's what I'm it's because well then I sat down
Speaker 1: and thought about I was like, no, like, she has
Speaker 1: been emotionally abused the whole time we've seen him interact
Speaker 1: on screen together. He's being abusive, so like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's holding that bat so stupidly. But then
Speaker 1: also like if I, you know, if any of us
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, victim right, like I would be so
Speaker 1: scared that I couldn't do anything even not scared, I
Speaker 1: can't hold the fucking bat? What are you talking about it?
Speaker 1: It would have been like I mean, and it would
Speaker 1: have been cathartic to see her be like dope with weapons.
Speaker 1: But I feel like that would have been like a
Speaker 1: Merry Sioux move because given what we know about her life,
Speaker 1: the fact that she hasn't really been allowed to have
Speaker 1: ambitions or hobbies that we know of outside of being
Speaker 1: a wife and a mother, it doesn't make sense and
Speaker 1: softball on the weekends, and then that see that if
Speaker 1: they had been like, well maybe if you weren't softballing
Speaker 1: so much, then it wouldn't have been I would have
Speaker 1: been pissed about the bad thing, right. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think we've been trained as like movie watchers to see
Speaker 1: these like strong female protagonists who are actually criminally underwritten,
Speaker 1: and like when they suddenly, like against all odds, managed
Speaker 1: to like kick someone's ass even if it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense for their character, we're like, but we're like, who
Speaker 1: a woman being triumphant? Yeah, we love to see it,
Speaker 1: but in a lot of cases it wouldn't have actually
Speaker 1: happened that way. I was. Let's say something that even
Speaker 1: in the time we've been doing this podcast and like, go,
Speaker 1: I I never I didn't always think of it that way. Yeah. Same,
Speaker 1: Growing with age incredible. We've got to take another quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll come back from more. Yeah, did anything else
Speaker 1: to say about Wendy specifically? So, in addition to being um,
Speaker 1: you know, abused and gaslet by Jack, there is a
Speaker 1: brief moment where she's kind of lied to in Gaslet
Speaker 1: by Mr Hallerran. It's not as nefarious, but it's the
Speaker 1: scene where careful Halleran stan over here. Um he keeps
Speaker 1: calling Danny doc and she's like, how did you know
Speaker 1: we call him? Doc and he's like, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I probably just heard you say it. And Wendy, who
Speaker 1: is smart and resourceful and attentive, is like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we do call him that, but I'm pretty sure I
Speaker 1: didn't say that in front of you. And he was
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know that. Maybe he did. She
Speaker 1: calls him on it, and then I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm halleran hive over here. He has. She yes, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's like explicit. Yeah. I didn't have a
Speaker 1: big a problem with it, but it just kind we
Speaker 1: found out right after why because that we found on
Speaker 1: the media, right, because otherwise he's sitting Wendy down being like, well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I'm psychic. I know it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense your son's also psychic. Tony is real like his
Speaker 1: options are limited. In that moment, for sure, Yeah, it didn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't really bother me, but I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: every man in this movie is lying to Wendy. Cool. Yes,
Speaker 1: but since we're talking about Mr Halloran, I think that
Speaker 1: it is worth discussing the way this movie treats race
Speaker 1: as well as Native American culture. I don't think that
Speaker 1: I mean, and again, we are three white ladies sitting
Speaker 1: in a room. Um so any outside perspective is please.
Speaker 1: Um But I mean I didn't think that it was
Speaker 1: handled especially well starting with the whole. I mean, part
Speaker 1: of what is distracting for the metaphor of the cycle
Speaker 1: of abuse and addiction and all that is the throwaway
Speaker 1: mentioned that it's built on a quote unquote Indian burial ground,
Speaker 1: which from what we can tell, has literally not it's
Speaker 1: just too it's just to make it seem like, oh,
Speaker 1: the hotel is haunted, but the haunting has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with Native Americans. There's also the line, um per
Speaker 1: the movie built on an Indian burial ground and the
Speaker 1: builders had to repel a few Indian attacks as they
Speaker 1: were building it. I don't know how common of a
Speaker 1: thing this is in Stephen King books, but I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure it also is the case for pet cemetery, where
Speaker 1: like that was like another like indigenous burial ground. And
Speaker 1: then when you bury your you know, children in it,
Speaker 1: they'll come back as you know, scary possessed children. Um
Speaker 1: so as scary cats. I haven't seen the movie, which
Speaker 1: goes without saying, perpetuates negative ideas about Indigenous people and
Speaker 1: cultures and just kind of an altogether disregard for what
Speaker 1: that means at all. Like I think that it's like
Speaker 1: I would wager to guess that Stephen King gave very
Speaker 1: little consideration and was I mean, and and he sort
Speaker 1: of does us with Mr Halloran as well of just
Speaker 1: attributing magic to non white people and as a plot device. Um,
Speaker 1: and I think that Mr Halloran is treated in much
Speaker 1: the same way, right, Yeah. I think he could very
Speaker 1: easily fall into like the magical negro stereotype trope that
Speaker 1: exists in lots of fiction. It's still a prevalent trope today.
Speaker 1: They're there for everyone who's seen both seasons of Big
Speaker 1: Little Lies. There was a major issue with that trope
Speaker 1: on Big Little Lies two months ago, so it is
Speaker 1: not something that I mean, it's more likely to be
Speaker 1: identified and called out now, but it's still gets signed
Speaker 1: off on by a lot of people. Um. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that that definitely is the one thing that is
Speaker 1: at least is like the narrative function works where he
Speaker 1: and Danny need to communicate for the plot to work,
Speaker 1: but it's we know nothing else about him other than
Speaker 1: he's psychic. He knows about the Shining he sort of
Speaker 1: almost seems to exist out of time. Uh. And he
Speaker 1: has a lot of naked posters in his bedroom, right,
Speaker 1: which is a weird joke, like because the movie verily,
Speaker 1: very deliberately frames so that you can see the posters.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's commentary about something I could couldn't but
Speaker 1: we don't know. We don't know the hollerin hive, we
Speaker 1: were okay with it, but you know, it's like, he's whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do think that the movie's
Speaker 1: explicit choice to kill him off is also a very
Speaker 1: trophy horror thing because that doesn't happen in the books,
Speaker 1: and there's such a like well tracked record of I mean,
Speaker 1: like a black person being the first to die in
Speaker 1: a horror movie. And Mr Hallern is the only person
Speaker 1: who is the only innocent person who dies, even though
Speaker 1: he's basically like he and Wendy together are the heroes
Speaker 1: of the story, and they managed to save Danny. And
Speaker 1: then why couldn't Kirk Letting move to Maine like he
Speaker 1: does in the book The halleren Hive has spoken? Was
Speaker 1: he written in the book Corey as black? Do you remember? Okay?
Speaker 1: So at least they didn't I guess whitewash that character,
Speaker 1: but even so killing him off was a mistake. We
Speaker 1: also should talk about the scene in which Jack and
Speaker 1: Mr Grady, who is like acting as called like a
Speaker 1: butlery type of person in the bathroom and the N
Speaker 1: word gets dropped several times by both of them, and
Speaker 1: Mr Grady is basically saying like, hey, Jack, keep an
Speaker 1: eye on that family yours because they're being troublesome. And
Speaker 1: also your son he's got this talent and he's using
Speaker 1: it to try to bring in an outside party. And
Speaker 1: then they start talking about Mr Halleran, and you dropped
Speaker 1: the N word the slurs, which I think is the
Speaker 1: characters being racist and not the movie being racist, but
Speaker 1: also that one. I don't think that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I see what you're saying, though, because I
Speaker 1: don't think that they would have had Wendy say that.
Speaker 1: Definitely not I don't think, but I don't know's it's
Speaker 1: hard to hard to know, um, but I think because
Speaker 1: those characters are framed as they are acts murders, yes,
Speaker 1: so they're like their friend is being horribly racist and
Speaker 1: horribly misogynist. Because again Mr Grady is like, yeah, my
Speaker 1: wife was causing problems and so were my daughters. So
Speaker 1: I killed them because I hate women, and also I
Speaker 1: hate the women in your family, Jack, so you should
Speaker 1: probably kill her too. It's harder. Yeah, it's harder. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard no matter what. But in the movie, I
Speaker 1: feel like it sucks more because than the only black
Speaker 1: character in the movie has such an abrupt and that
Speaker 1: it wasn't intended for them, So I feel like it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I mean again, it's like Kubrick does
Speaker 1: not handle race well in this movie. Yeah. And if
Speaker 1: there's if there's anything we miss, please let us know again.
Speaker 1: Three White Ladies in the Room, Um, something that I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk a little bit about Danny and how
Speaker 1: the rein of the this movie that we've been discussing,
Speaker 1: I don't know like it it. It hit for me
Speaker 1: like kind of different this time. Thank you. I was
Speaker 1: trying to like work my way around not saying that,
Speaker 1: and then I just ended up there. Anyways, put it
Speaker 1: in the cordon back and it's gold good. But when
Speaker 1: you're watching it as like a little boy who is
Speaker 1: dealing with an addicted parent versus a little boy who's
Speaker 1: dealing with a ghost, that scene, that one long scene
Speaker 1: with him and Jack Nicholson is so scary when he's
Speaker 1: sitting on his lap, horrifying. Yeah, and that that kid actor,
Speaker 1: he I think he retired. He is now a biology
Speaker 1: professor in Kentucky. Yeah, I had the good sense to
Speaker 1: get out of this professor Lloyd to you. Um so
Speaker 1: good for him, but he does. He gives a great
Speaker 1: performance in this movie. And like that scene especially of
Speaker 1: just the way that an addict parent talks to their children,
Speaker 1: and you can tell, I mean, Jack is kind of
Speaker 1: already pretty far gone by the time that scenes happens,
Speaker 1: because he's just staring at himself in the mirror when
Speaker 1: Danny gets there. It's a metaphor, but just the way
Speaker 1: that he tries to reassure Danny that nothing's going to
Speaker 1: happen to him, and you can tell that Danny wants
Speaker 1: to believe that, but also he knows that it's not heartbreaking, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: really heartbreaking, you know, because of three years ago. And
Speaker 1: so that scene especially, like I watched it twice this
Speaker 1: time because it was just like, oh, like when when
Speaker 1: you're when you're not thinking of it, it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: haunted Hotel movie it's like heartbreaking for that kid and
Speaker 1: so crushing and you can feel it inside of you.
Speaker 1: It's really crazy. I mean I can I'm just like okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my own ship, but damn heartbreaking, Like O can
Speaker 1: we get it over dad? That scene it's away before
Speaker 1: we see like Danny getting up off his lap and leaving.
Speaker 1: So I my theories that that's when Jack Jack chokes chokes.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt. Yeah, yeah, there's an absolutely no. That's
Speaker 1: the thing is like, yeah, there's no ghost. A ghost
Speaker 1: did not choke Danny Um. Which is why I am,
Speaker 1: while understanding and empathizing with her, you know, role in
Speaker 1: this very abusive relationship, I'm frustrated when you know that
Speaker 1: she would even think like, oh, there's some lady here
Speaker 1: who choked him, when my husband, with a track record
Speaker 1: of hurting my son is just here like oh, and
Speaker 1: I understand the dynamic of self preservation. But it's like right,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to watch. But I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: that just means that they're doing a good job. But
Speaker 1: it was hard. That's also why the scene where she
Speaker 1: sees the furry giving a blowjobs me because it's like, well,
Speaker 1: that kind of like pokes a hole in the metaphors
Speaker 1: that I feel like the you know, movie and narrative
Speaker 1: we're trying to see ghosts in the book. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was just not that's like I I want because I thought,
Speaker 1: I also don't think it's as like extreme like like
Speaker 1: like every like. I don't I feel like the whole
Speaker 1: haunting actual haunting part isn't as extreme extreme in the book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I I think it is
Speaker 1: like an interesting choice that she also starts to see things.
Speaker 1: Here's here's my Galaxy brain read of it is. It's
Speaker 1: just I feel like if we're going with the ghosts
Speaker 1: or a metaphor for being a family unit with an
Speaker 1: addict who refuses to get help, right, that it like
Speaker 1: is contagious in the way it affects people. Because I
Speaker 1: don't even think Jack isn't even the first person, right,
Speaker 1: Danny is the first person to see ghost because he
Speaker 1: is the most he is the most physically effect he's
Speaker 1: shining um, but he's like the most he's been the
Speaker 1: most directly traumatized as a child, yeah, and has like
Speaker 1: the fewest coping mechanisms, and so like him, seeing a
Speaker 1: ghost first makes sense plus children do see ghost because
Speaker 1: they are more susceptible to it. In general, children are
Speaker 1: just more susceptible. You can read it. There's studies on
Speaker 1: it anyway, So yeah, I mean, obviously it is our
Speaker 1: Halloween episode. I think we should just say right off
Speaker 1: the bat, uh ghost exist. There's studies on it. And
Speaker 1: I just I was talking about it in the car
Speaker 1: last night and and we were like, clearly, but for
Speaker 1: the sake of this story, uh yeah. Like I think
Speaker 1: the ghost as a metaphor for how addiction affects everyone
Speaker 1: in a unit. And I also think it makes sense
Speaker 1: that when dy sees it last, because she is the
Speaker 1: one who is trying the hardest not to see it,
Speaker 1: but then she sees it at the end so brilliant,
Speaker 1: and I don't mean in a sarcastic way. It was
Speaker 1: so smart. But but why she sees a furry like
Speaker 1: that's maybe her thing. We don't know why, because it's
Speaker 1: like we are seeing like all the ghosts are. I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone's thinking about it this hard, but like
Speaker 1: all the ghosts are do seem to appear specific to
Speaker 1: the person they're appearing to. Danny sees other kids because
Speaker 1: that's what he'll be most receptive to. Jack sees hot
Speaker 1: lady because he's a horny idiot. Wendy sees Hurry giving
Speaker 1: a blow job because that's what that's given background information
Speaker 1: about her. Maybe we are maybe we do learn something
Speaker 1: about her other than she's a little freaking she's a man,
Speaker 1: that she's a fair chance wife. Mother was on her
Speaker 1: gravestone closet for there's a difference. Well. The other thing too,
Speaker 1: is that, like women, children are often not believed. So
Speaker 1: the fact that like, you know, Danny's seeing things and
Speaker 1: for him to be like I strangled and like everyone's
Speaker 1: kind of making excuses and trying to justify, Okay, well
Speaker 1: who did this to him? And what's happening, and there's
Speaker 1: like so much ambiguity around it, I think is telling
Speaker 1: of the fact that, like children have a tendency to
Speaker 1: not be believed. Another thing I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: briefly is there is a tendency in I would say,
Speaker 1: especially horror movies, and it's often like the final girl
Speaker 1: that ends up. This being the case for or just
Speaker 1: mostly any female character, but when she has to put
Speaker 1: up a fight or defend herself, this potentially will sound
Speaker 1: victim blaming, So I just want to acknowledge that right
Speaker 1: off the bat, But there's also a ten working things
Speaker 1: out in real time. Here's what I'll say when, especially
Speaker 1: a female character in a movie has an opportunity to
Speaker 1: kind of get back at her attacker, maybe like somehow
Speaker 1: they got knocked unconscious, or they're um or they're spucky
Speaker 1: leaving in or they're like incapacitated in some way like
Speaker 1: this just happened in that movie Ready or Not, which
Speaker 1: I did watch and did thoroughly enjoy. But there's a
Speaker 1: few different moments where the female protagonist of that movie
Speaker 1: has an opportunity to like kill someone who was trying
Speaker 1: to kill her by either like running them over with
Speaker 1: a car or like shooting them with a gun, or
Speaker 1: like doing something with some weapon that she has at
Speaker 1: her disposal, and she doesn't do that, and then instead
Speaker 1: like she's just like I'm just gonna get away, and
Speaker 1: because she didn't kill that person, that person gets back
Speaker 1: up and then tries to kill her somewhere, and that
Speaker 1: the ending of the second Strangers is what got to do?
Speaker 1: They do it all the time, but the ending of
Speaker 1: that one, I was like, Jesus fucking Christ okay, but
Speaker 1: I would argue for Wendy and this one where she
Speaker 1: from what we know and we don't know enough about her,
Speaker 1: which is like a central Kubrick Kane whatever, everyone's fault,
Speaker 1: everyone's fault. I'm not saying Kuber's king. Uh that from
Speaker 1: what we know, she has been kind of societally and
Speaker 1: personally forced to define herself by this man for let's
Speaker 1: just say her entire adult life, right, And so I
Speaker 1: understand her reticence to murder him. Also we know that
Speaker 1: no one's going to believe her. So my point was
Speaker 1: going to be that I like that she first she
Speaker 1: bonks him over the head, knocking him unconscious, and then
Speaker 1: I think in other movies, thank you for that a fact.
Speaker 1: I think in other movies she just would have like
Speaker 1: left him there on the landing of the stairs and
Speaker 1: then like just try to do something. But the fact
Speaker 1: that she then drags him and locks him in a
Speaker 1: room that he can't get out of, even though he
Speaker 1: somehow did, um Like, I really like that. And then
Speaker 1: when he is chopping down the door later, the fact
Speaker 1: that she like stabs him in the hand, I was like, go, Wendy, yes,
Speaker 1: like he's trying to kill you, try to kill him back.
Speaker 1: It seems like strategic to where like it's clear she
Speaker 1: doesn't want to kill him, and it's clear that, like
Speaker 1: in a lot of abusive relationships, she has some love
Speaker 1: for him, right of course, even though she knows he's
Speaker 1: a monster. And so it's I kind of like that,
Speaker 1: It's like she doesn't want to kill him, She's doing
Speaker 1: what she needs to do to protect herself and her son,
Speaker 1: and she's she's like, if that means locking you in
Speaker 1: here and then having someone come back and arrest you,
Speaker 1: you know, And so yeah, can we talk about the
Speaker 1: use of the naked ladies? Yes? So, I mean I
Speaker 1: think that this is like one of the more obvious, glaring,
Speaker 1: like come on things where I mean, I guess, given
Speaker 1: what we know about Jack, it's not super surprising that
Speaker 1: he's a lecherous creep, right because he's clearly not interested
Speaker 1: in self improvement um or people's boundaries. So I'm not
Speaker 1: even really commenting on that as much as just the
Speaker 1: way that the movie seems to feel about Like Stanley
Speaker 1: Cooper has a pretty well documented history of like women
Speaker 1: as props, so does all movies. Um, but this is
Speaker 1: like pretty pretty aggressively, you know, where we see the
Speaker 1: young woman versus the old woman, and it's very much like, oh,
Speaker 1: the young woman is hot, silent, horny, right, we don't
Speaker 1: need to know anything about her. And then the second
Speaker 1: you see like an old woman, uh, it's complete body horror.
Speaker 1: Is rotting. Besides that, I get where you're coming from
Speaker 1: is rotting, but I feel like that there, that's like
Speaker 1: co of like how people view older women. Older women
Speaker 1: are rarely shown on screen as hot or at all, right,
Speaker 1: first of all, at all, and if they are there
Speaker 1: certainly not like viable romantic people. This is a this
Speaker 1: is a plug for Grayson Frankie Gloria I love. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a Gloria. But yeah, I mean watch Grayson
Speaker 1: Frankie to see sexy, hot older women getting fun honestly.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean I just like, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's I think one of the more obvious critiques of
Speaker 1: this movie. But like, come on, right, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's all I had. Did anyone have any other thoughts
Speaker 1: about the film? I had, Does it pass the Bechtel test?
Speaker 1: Not even a little of it? I was considering him,
Speaker 1: and then you guys spoke, Yeah, no, absolutely not. The
Speaker 1: only scene where two female characters talk at all is
Speaker 1: when the two Grady twins asked Danny if they want
Speaker 1: to play with him? Right, Oh, I wanted to mention
Speaker 1: that that is and he like, it wasn't like a
Speaker 1: steel it was a borrow. But um, Kubrick took that
Speaker 1: image from a Diane Arbus photo, who's like a famous
Speaker 1: feminist photo, very pro lgbt Q plus photographer, and he
Speaker 1: saw like a picture she took of twins and like
Speaker 1: that direct image isn't interesting, so Arbus representation, And it
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't even and it wasn't like I'll
Speaker 1: give Kuber credit of like he attributed that term. So
Speaker 1: that's fun. If only we had known about their interests,
Speaker 1: their names, what are their names? They like to play,
Speaker 1: and they like to wear the same dress, so we
Speaker 1: already know more about them than we do about Wendy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so, um, yes, does that pass the Bechdel tests?
Speaker 1: So let's rate it on our nipple scale zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples based on its representation of women. Um, this
Speaker 1: is really hard because on one hand, I don't know
Speaker 1: how harsh you guys judge it. Pretty hard, I want
Speaker 1: to say like one, I want to go to Nips,
Speaker 1: but then I feel like you guys are like one
Speaker 1: nip was one of my two nips is as your
Speaker 1: guys is one nip in my opinion in my hands
Speaker 1: honestly going to go to two and a half. I
Speaker 1: think I think I'm gonna go to on this one,
Speaker 1: and that with the kind of I think probably keeping
Speaker 1: in mind that we're giving the movie maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit too much credit based on the read that we
Speaker 1: have talked about today to take based on the revisionist
Speaker 1: history we have put upon it. But no, I mean
Speaker 1: I think that, like, I think that a lot of
Speaker 1: the criticism leveraged against Wendy's character, even like five or
Speaker 1: six years ago, wasn't taking into consideration the dynamics of
Speaker 1: the relationship and that she's clearly a victim in this
Speaker 1: relationship and it's super clear that she needs to, you know,
Speaker 1: survive without help. She's not believed. I think that there's
Speaker 1: there's like more than some critics of her character are
Speaker 1: giving it credit for. And if you think about it,
Speaker 1: it's most of her decisions for me, makes sense inside
Speaker 1: of the fucking nightmare that she's It's Nerristontal um So,
Speaker 1: I think I think that especially for and and also
Speaker 1: this is the second Stephen King's story we've covered on
Speaker 1: this we covered Carry all right, um And I think
Speaker 1: that he deals with this female character far better than
Speaker 1: he treats Carry. Um and so in terms of I
Speaker 1: mean even growth of of I'm always pleasantly surprised when
Speaker 1: a man manages to write a female character thoughtfully at all. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I don't agree with a lot of Kuber's adaptations.
Speaker 1: I agree with none of the ways that he treated
Speaker 1: his performers. But on the strength of Wendy being like
Speaker 1: a very tragic but ultimately victorious example of a woman
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship, it gets two nipples from me,
Speaker 1: and I'm giving them to Mr hall Ran very good
Speaker 1: twist who lives in my version and the canonical version.
Speaker 1: Um There's there's a line in the movie that Mr
Speaker 1: Grady says telling Jack after he's been locked in the pantry.
Speaker 1: Mr Grady is like that wife of yours is stronger
Speaker 1: than we thought. She seems resourceful. So he even even
Speaker 1: the acknowledges her strength and her power. Um. So, Yes,
Speaker 1: he's an icon. The lens through which I chose to
Speaker 1: watch the movie this time in terms of it being
Speaker 1: a story about Wendy, you know, struggling through this abusive
Speaker 1: relationship and trying to save herself and her son. That
Speaker 1: read lends itself I think, yeah, like a two and
Speaker 1: a half nipple rating, because even so we still don't
Speaker 1: really know anything about her character, and it's a long movie.
Speaker 1: It's the version I watch is two hours long, although
Speaker 1: according to use, the two and a half hour version
Speaker 1: have to say so there's a there's time to get
Speaker 1: to know her a little bit better anything outside of
Speaker 1: her role as a wife and a mother, and as
Speaker 1: well as the way this movie treats other cultures, races,
Speaker 1: etcetera universally. But the fact that we do see her,
Speaker 1: I mean, in the context of this story, we do
Speaker 1: see her being the one who's like taking care of
Speaker 1: the upkeep of the hotel. She like knows how to
Speaker 1: use a radio. I don't know how to use a radio.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to check a boiler to right.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying like she she knows how to do
Speaker 1: this stuff, all the emotional labor of like handling her
Speaker 1: husband's responsibilities and then also being pretty much the sole
Speaker 1: caregiver of their son and all the all this different
Speaker 1: stuff and the fact that she does like fight back
Speaker 1: and she is triumphant in the end. I do enjoy Uh.
Speaker 1: But I also think the movie is far more interested
Speaker 1: in showing us Jack's mental unraveling than it is showing
Speaker 1: us anything about Wendy's character, because there are long stretches
Speaker 1: of time where we don't see Wendy at all, and
Speaker 1: the movie is just overall far more focused on Jack.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we can we can do better on a
Speaker 1: on a twenty nine version of a story like this.
Speaker 1: I'm interested, Well, I'm interested also in seeing how the
Speaker 1: uh doctor, Sleep Doctor starring who does it? Who's the
Speaker 1: actor in that movie? Jamie You and McGregor, You and McGregor, you,
Speaker 1: you and you, I said, you and you kill me.
Speaker 1: I'm interested in seeing it and how it deals with trauma,
Speaker 1: like how it deals with trauma in an adult from childhood. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: so two and a half nipples I'm going to give
Speaker 1: to to Wendy and then my half nipple is split
Speaker 1: between the Grady twins, Brave and gross Corey. To nipples
Speaker 1: are you giving them to? Given one to Wendy and
Speaker 1: one to Danny. Danny we're having to deal with. Corey.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here, thank you for
Speaker 1: having someone like me on this. But you're a bit
Speaker 1: You've been so hard on yourself. Okay, I have sciatica
Speaker 1: and deal with that today. Okay for my psietica. No,
Speaker 1: I'm in a good win and I'm really happy to
Speaker 1: be here. I'm just saying, we love you. It's so
Speaker 1: dark in this room, scary, Corey, what would you like
Speaker 1: to un Where can people find you online? You can
Speaker 1: find me online and on t whether at Corey T.
Speaker 1: Johnson because obviously Corey Johnson has taken and the T
Speaker 1: stands for Taylor. I guess that's all I have. Okay.
Speaker 1: You can follow us at bechtel Cast on all the
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Speaker 1: and hey, it's not too late to get your feminist
Speaker 1: icon Beetle Juice T shirt. You can get your wet
Speaker 1: scabs and dry scabs T shirts as well. Uh to
Speaker 1: sport all year round and then get out there and
Speaker 1: don't do all work and no play. Give yourself some play.
Speaker 1: Don't be a doll person. Not okay, Bye you