WEBVTT - The Shining with Corie Johnson

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone, Hi. Just a few quick announcements at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the show for some upcoming live shows, and

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<v Speaker 1>here they come. First, we are doing a live show

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<v Speaker 1>in l A on November nine at The Ruby and

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<v Speaker 1>we are covering Home Alone with guests tomorrow Yegiah, She

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<v Speaker 1>is the Best, awesome, And this is our last show

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<v Speaker 1>at that location because the Ruby is moving to a

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<v Speaker 1>different spot. So you don't want to miss this show.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very special and it's the last time we're doing

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<v Speaker 1>a live show at that specific spot. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't come, we'll set an eleborate booby trip and you

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<v Speaker 1>be upset. Also, because today's episode is Colorado adjacent, we

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<v Speaker 1>want to say we are coming to Colorado specifically Denver.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever heard of it? So we're gonna be co headlining

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<v Speaker 1>a few stand up shows on November six when at

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<v Speaker 1>nine pm, when at ten thirty, they're both at Bar Max.

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<v Speaker 1>The nine pm is very close to selling out. To

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<v Speaker 1>be sure to come to one of those. Also on

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<v Speaker 1>November seventeen, the next day, we are doing a live

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<v Speaker 1>becktel cast show at the Buntport Theater in Denver. We

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<v Speaker 1>are covering the Santa Claus. Oh my god, I'm so

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<v Speaker 1>excited with special guest Grace Thomas. The Elf is hot,

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<v Speaker 1>so if you live in the Denver area, please come out.

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<v Speaker 1>We would love, love, love, love love to see you

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<v Speaker 1>and Grace is incredible. So yeah. Tickets and details for

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<v Speaker 1>all of those shows Denver and l A are on

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<v Speaker 1>becktel cast dot com and click on the live tab there.

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<v Speaker 1>Enjoy the episode on the beck dol Cast. The questions

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<v Speaker 1>asked if movies have women in them, are all their

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<v Speaker 1>discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism

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<v Speaker 1>the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the beck

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<v Speaker 1>del Cast. Hello and welcome to the becktel Cast. My

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<v Speaker 1>name is Caitlin Dronte who It's love. That's my very

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<v Speaker 1>clever way of people pay me to do this. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>my name is Jamie Loftus. Oh sorry, and this is

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<v Speaker 1>the Bectel Cast podcast about women in movies. That's right. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>we used the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a media metric created by cartoonists out also

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<v Speaker 1>called the Bechtel Wall List Test. Scary. It is very

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<v Speaker 1>scary because what it is. It's a media metric that

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<v Speaker 1>requires that two female identifying characters with names talk to

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<v Speaker 1>each other about something other than go who is a man? Oh? Man?

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<v Speaker 1>This is electric? Feel my blood at the surface of

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<v Speaker 1>my skin. Can we demo the test? Yeah, let's do it, Hey, Jamie,

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<v Speaker 1>All work and no play makes Caitlin a dull woman.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna hit you with the bat. It's violent, but

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<v Speaker 1>it passes unlike well, actually, can we say that unlike today?

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<v Speaker 1>But if someone was just like, oh, they spoiled it

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<v Speaker 1>at the beginning, that's my favorite criticism of our podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>We're like, oh, they said it at the beginning, So

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<v Speaker 1>why would I keep fucking listening. I'm like, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>you're just not the demo? Wait have people had that criticism?

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<v Speaker 1>I read all the iTunes reviews. Please please leave a

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<v Speaker 1>nice one. Please do please leave a nice this Halloween season.

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<v Speaker 1>Please pay be kind, be kind to each other this Halloween.

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<v Speaker 1>No tricking or the only treating just for us, Just

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<v Speaker 1>treats us. Please. But yeah, we're talking about the shining

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<v Speaker 1>today and we have an incredible guest. We certainly do.

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<v Speaker 1>She is a comedian, she's hilarious. We love her. She's

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<v Speaker 1>about to move to New York City. Ever heard it?

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<v Speaker 1>So we had to get her on before she moves

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<v Speaker 1>New York. Let's here. He's welcome her with open arms.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Corey Johnson, welcome here. I'm here, red Rum, red Rum,

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<v Speaker 1>It's red round season. It's no, it's not. Don't don't

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<v Speaker 1>read round each other. Okay, so we're talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>Shining Stanley Krubrick. Yes, Corey, what is your history relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with the movie? Have you read the book? Read the

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<v Speaker 1>book so I could understand the movie in general and

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<v Speaker 1>just compare them. I like the book better but than Also,

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<v Speaker 1>the cinematography of the movie is really amazing, vibrant, captivating,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just you said, nineteen eighty. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how he still looks Jack nicholsonce it looks so old?

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<v Speaker 1>Am I talking about the wrong movie? No, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>I was. I was thinking the same thing. I was

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<v Speaker 1>just like, how old is he in this movie? And

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<v Speaker 1>he's like in his forty looks like but he looks

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<v Speaker 1>like hell. Look but maybe that just means he's doing

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<v Speaker 1>a good job job. Yeah. I don't think that was

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<v Speaker 1>to a compliment. She looks like hell. But you know, Jacky,

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<v Speaker 1>Jack's going to hear this and he's going to be livid.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jack has and I mean to tell you this

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<v Speaker 1>that Jack contributes to our Patreon and it really gives

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<v Speaker 1>that five dollars, so we really need it. Times are tough. O.

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<v Speaker 1>My bad, didn't know. I didn't get the Sorry Jack,

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry Jack, Sorry Jack. I'm sorry Jack. There's actually this

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<v Speaker 1>is a bit of a tangent at the beginning. Cancel me,

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<v Speaker 1>but friend of the pod, Mary Hulihan just wrote a

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<v Speaker 1>very funny show that people should see if they're in

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<v Speaker 1>the area. She's New York based, but it's called Me

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<v Speaker 1>and Jack and it's this fictional account of how she

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<v Speaker 1>dated Jack Nicholson. But Jack Nicholson is too busy playing

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<v Speaker 1>is PS four to pay attention. It's really funny, all right, Yeah, honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>that sounds good. It's very Jamie asked, that's something up

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie's alley, and that's really good. The grin on Jamie's

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<v Speaker 1>face right now, I cannot explain. I'm still laughing filing. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So you read the book in the movie a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of times. I like the movie. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>else to say. Shelley Duval's teeth um will be licked

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<v Speaker 1>by me one day. She's alive, right, very cool. I

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<v Speaker 1>tweeted about it so sad to say it. That's the rule.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your history with that kid? I have not read

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<v Speaker 1>the book, which makes me nervous to talk about this movie,

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<v Speaker 1>in particular because I feel like I don't know Stephen King.

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<v Speaker 1>Heads out there are like Stephen King. And then when

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<v Speaker 1>we do a movie adapted from a book and you

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<v Speaker 1>know every What I'm trying to say is, listeners, remember

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<v Speaker 1>that we're not a book podcast. We're not an adaptation podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I still am suffering from whiplash from Lord of the

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<v Speaker 1>Rings over a year ago, where I'm just like, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a free podcast, take it or leave it, Okay, Relax.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have not read the book. I have seen

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<v Speaker 1>the movie a fair number of times I would say

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<v Speaker 1>probably like six or seven times throughout my life. And

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<v Speaker 1>I like it. I like it. I did not. I

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<v Speaker 1>did not see that coming. I did not mean to

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<v Speaker 1>say it like that, embarrassed, but I do enjoy to

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<v Speaker 1>the movie. You have not pronounced anything correctly. The day

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<v Speaker 1>Pin Milan, I was getting so nervous because we have

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<v Speaker 1>to say you and McGregor seriber. I'm sure I pulled

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<v Speaker 1>out that last one. I want, Well, clearly, I'm up. No,

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<v Speaker 1>it's adorable, but you're a fan of the movie, yes, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw this movie on my first day of college.

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<v Speaker 1>I had like a cool college roommate who was like,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a little movie theater I know about in the

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<v Speaker 1>corner of Boston. And I was like, how, like we

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<v Speaker 1>just out here, But she just had that like cool

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<v Speaker 1>person instinct, and she found a screening of The Shining

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<v Speaker 1>and I went. And I went to college with no

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of like cinema per se. I've seen a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of movies, but I hadn't seen much cinema. Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>I really liked it, and it was like it became

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<v Speaker 1>one of my faiths for a little while. I've like

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<v Speaker 1>seen the documentaries and then Room two three seven. I

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<v Speaker 1>had to stop because it made me so furious. It

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<v Speaker 1>was yeah, and then and then uh and then In

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<v Speaker 1>recent years, I have like I learned more about Stanley Kubrick.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't ask me, I already made fun of you and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even notice I, you know, dragged me. But

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<v Speaker 1>I've learned more about him. I've watched documentaries about him specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>I've watched him of his older stuff and now I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just like, it's a beautiful movie, but I don't love it. Sure, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>let's dive into the recap. Shallby Yes, you can interject

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<v Speaker 1>in the recap and them's the rules absolutely all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jack Torrence played by Jack Nicholson, he gets a

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<v Speaker 1>job looking after this huge hotel, the Overlook Hotel, which

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<v Speaker 1>is nestled into the rocky mountains, and he needs to

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<v Speaker 1>look after it over the winter when they close because

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<v Speaker 1>of the harsh weather. Right because and this is in Colorado,

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<v Speaker 1>r Colorado. Yeah, I had no idea. Who was Thank god,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the rare Stephen King that doesn't take place in Maine, right, interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's very secluded, it's very isolated. The opening sequence,

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<v Speaker 1>they're driving this might not be funny in anyone but me.

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<v Speaker 1>They're driving through the mountains to get there or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>And the YouTube video that they used to have back

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<v Speaker 1>in the day where the cars driving and then they

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<v Speaker 1>scare you. You know, I'm talking about literally infamous. It

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<v Speaker 1>looks just like that, and I was like, do I

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<v Speaker 1>turn it off? I was really stoned, but it was like,

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<v Speaker 1>do I turn it off? I didn't realize until i'd

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<v Speaker 1>seen the shining like three times that that's the clip

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<v Speaker 1>that you're it's like, watch the car. I'm pretty sure

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<v Speaker 1>it is, or it's like a very similar car, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the devil comes out and it's like, so someone

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<v Speaker 1>like edited in like a scary thing Halloween energy. Now

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<v Speaker 1>that you're saying it, it might be an as on commercial.

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<v Speaker 1>Really think it's like a Red Knee sun Ultimate, But

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<v Speaker 1>it's fine. I think we can consider this relevant discussion. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. So. The manager of the Overlook Hotel

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<v Speaker 1>tells Jack about this winter caretaker from a few years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's like, just so you know, he did acts

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<v Speaker 1>murder his wife and two young daughters. But Jack is like, so,

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<v Speaker 1>don't worry that won't happen to me, because I love

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<v Speaker 1>being alone, he says. He's like, no, I got this.

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<v Speaker 1>I like being this alone. Yeah. Yeah, because he's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be there working on a writing project. That's what

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<v Speaker 1>tempts him about taking this job where he's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be in isolation, but he will be there with his family,

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<v Speaker 1>um his wife and his wife Wendy and Yell and

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<v Speaker 1>their young son Danny also named Danny. Lloyd plays Danny,

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<v Speaker 1>so really one to ones with the character names. Although

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<v Speaker 1>Mr Hallerand's name is not Scatman Cruthers, which is it,

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<v Speaker 1>Which is a shame. It should Karacter should just be

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<v Speaker 1>called scat Man Cruthers. Yeah, why make it easier for

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<v Speaker 1>Jack and Danny and the rest of the cast has

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<v Speaker 1>to remember a different name. It's almost like they have

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<v Speaker 1>to act upsetting. So the thing about Danny is that

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<v Speaker 1>he's got this kind of like imaginary friend question mark Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought maybe Tony Shalhub. Oh, that'd be fun that

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<v Speaker 1>Tony going to a little therapy, says inside of Danny's mouth,

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<v Speaker 1>it's Tony Bennett. And that's canonically the Sopranos takes place

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<v Speaker 1>inside of Danny Tarnth's mouth. That's what happens at the end.

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<v Speaker 1>They pull out, like at the end of Ben and

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<v Speaker 1>Black when they just like when into the world is

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<v Speaker 1>the galaxy is just like a marble. It's the same

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<v Speaker 1>they do. Don't stop believing, and then it cuts to black.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you keep watching, it zooms out's mouth. So

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<v Speaker 1>he's got this person Tony who lives in his finger

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<v Speaker 1>or his mouth, but he talks to his finger. But

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<v Speaker 1>it all also might be this like kind of clairvoyant possession,

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<v Speaker 1>which we'll learn about a little later on. So the

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<v Speaker 1>family arrives at the hotel and they're shown around. Mr

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<v Speaker 1>Halleran A. K. Scammon Cruther's shows him some stuff and

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<v Speaker 1>then creepy ship starts happening right away, like Danny sees

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<v Speaker 1>the ghost of these two little girls. Danny also has

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<v Speaker 1>this psyche connection with Mr Hallowran and he is like, hey, Danny,

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<v Speaker 1>we have this connection. I also had it with my grandmother.

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<v Speaker 1>She called it The Shining and we're like, hey, that's

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<v Speaker 1>the name of the movie. You're like, and that's why

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<v Speaker 1>they call it that. And when you're get excited, then

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, I'm in here, I'm I'm in and then

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of never comes back, like the word name

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<v Speaker 1>checking the way early. And I do like that actually,

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<v Speaker 1>because when it's towards the end of the movie, like

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<v Speaker 1>they try to make money, you're going to say, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's one million ways to die? Does that happen in

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<v Speaker 1>that movie? No? No? If that was the last line

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<v Speaker 1>of the movie. Loose Day Today. Okay, So Danny and

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<v Speaker 1>Mr Hallyrand have this whole conversation about Tony and how

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<v Speaker 1>he shows Danny things and how the overlook hotel is

0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 1>messed up and bad things happened there, and then Danny

0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 1>asks about Room two thirty seven and Mr Halloran's like,

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>nothing happened there, everything's fine, and don't go in that room.

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.679
<v Speaker 1>So a month passes and the family has settled in.

0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Jack is trying to figure out what to write about relatable,

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and then he's doing a packet. He's literally he's applying

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 1>to court him and he's like, oh my god, I

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>can't think of any web segments that it's hard. Monologue

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 1>jokes are hard. His niche humor you. So then Jack

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 1>also seems a bit stir crazy because he's like flinging

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 1>a tennis ball against the walls so hard, so so hard,

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 1>so loud, and like, I don't have it was stressing

0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 1>me out. That was like every single time they armed

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 1>power that man has anyway, just in observation, it comes

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.520
<v Speaker 1>back with that. Yeah, they're sitting it out up. Yeah.

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 1>And then there's this enormous hedge maze that Wendy and

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Danny walk through for fun, you know, and we're like, oh,

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 1>they're setting it up, planting payoff baby. Then Danny rides

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 1>around on his big wheel through the hotel and then

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>he rides past Room two three seven, and he's like,

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 1>hikes scary, but then he rides away and it's a coward.

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>He's a coward. Is at this point when Jack starts

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 1>being especially emotionally abusive and his mental state is starting

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>to unravel. Really the second people leave, he drops the

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>act and becomes an abuser. Yes, we'll talk all about it.

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>It starts to snow outside. The phone lines go down,

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 1>so Wendy radios the I think it's like the Parks

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 1>department nearby or something. Yeah, some of some like vague,

0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 1>unhelpful and identity and they're like, yeah, the phone lines

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>are going to be down to spring. So then Danny

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.720
<v Speaker 1>sees the ghost twins again and they're like, can't play

0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 1>with us, Danny, forever and ever and ever, and then

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 1>all that poor little Katy looks so scary. He's so

0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>scary because he also has sees a vision of them

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>having been as murdered and the halls are all bloody

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and he freaks out, understandably so, and Jack is getting

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 1>even creepier and more unhinged. He tells Wendy about a

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Nightmary had where he killed her and Danny and chopped

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 1>them up into little bits. Then Wendy notices some bruises

0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 1>on Danny's neck and she thinks that Jack hurt their son,

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and Jack is like, I don't know, right, And then

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>at this point we already know that he's like hit

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Danny in the past, because he goes to the Gold

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Room to blow off some steam, because it's like this

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 1>lounge e bar area, and then all of a sudden

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>there's a bartender there, and there's also a whole party

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>going on that's a little later, but there, and Jack

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.080
<v Speaker 1>tells this bartender, Lloyd, about this one time when he

0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:20.200
<v Speaker 1>lost his temper and accidentally hurt Danny a few years ago.

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Jack Nicholson is great in that scene. It is so scary. Yes,

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>his performance overall is quite stunning. I'll say, wow, what

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 1>can I say? He's our biggest fan. He loves us.

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 1>It's true. He gives us five dollars every month, sixty annually.

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 1>So Wendy comes running in frantically to the room and

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.199
<v Speaker 1>apparently there's this lady in one of the rooms who

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>tried to strangle Danny. Jack's like, what room is it?

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 1>And then he goes into it and guess what it's

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 1>room to thirty seven and there is a young naked woman,

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.520
<v Speaker 1>so he naturally starts to make out with her. Because

0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.919
<v Speaker 1>you're not like confused or why is she here? How

0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 1>did she get here? You go, oh, she's naked, and

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 1>every young naked woman wants to make out with Jack Nicholson.

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 1>But then as they're making out, she turns into like

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 1>a rotting zombie lady, as also happened as well. Yeah,

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean well, yeah, older women have to be associated

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>with body horror, just like Justasha. So Jack freaks out,

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 1>but when he goes back to tell Wendy about it,

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 1>he's like, I didn't see anything, not a goddamn thing,

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:45.239
<v Speaker 1>and she believes and she well, she's like, how did

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 1>this happen? What about Danny's bruises? And Jack's like I

0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:53.119
<v Speaker 1>think He's like, I think Danny did it to himself.

0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 1>And Wendy is freaking out and she's growing increasingly concerned

0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.680
<v Speaker 1>about the safety of her and her son and she

0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.400
<v Speaker 1>wants to get Danny out of there. And Jack does

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 1>not like this idea, and he yells at her and

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 1>he storms out, and then this is when Jack goes

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.159
<v Speaker 1>back to the banquet hall and it's not full of

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:18.400
<v Speaker 1>people who are like ghosts question Mark from the nineties, right,

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.639
<v Speaker 1>and one of them is Mr Grady. He was the

0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 1>caretaker who acts murdered his family. And Grady's like, no,

0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that's not me, Mr Torrence, You're the caretaker. By the way,

0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.600
<v Speaker 1>your son is being meddlesome and like you should put

0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 1>him and your wife in their place. Meanwhile, Danny is

0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to telepathically communicate with Scatman brothers to get help,

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and Mr Hallerand is like trying to reach the hotel

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.720
<v Speaker 1>by phone but he can't get through. Meanwhile, Jack dismantles

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.520
<v Speaker 1>the radio and then Mr Hallyerrand flies across the country

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.360
<v Speaker 1>to try to get to the um, but the snowstorm

0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:07.240
<v Speaker 1>keeps like dumping down snow everywhere. Mr Hollern is the

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>realist for almost no read like the shining things like

0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 1>well that kid, he knows the sordid history he was in,

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.160
<v Speaker 1>like Miami, yeah he was in Florida, goes a long way, yeah,

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.680
<v Speaker 1>spends all that money on a plane ticket. Just a

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:34.119
<v Speaker 1>good man, is uh So. Then um, Wendy finds the

0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>manuscript that Jack has been working on all this time,

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's famously pages and pages of all work and

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 1>no play makes Jack a doll boy. It's a cordon packet.

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 1>That's my cord back the corn and packet I turned in.

0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:59.680
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I'm staffed. Congratulations, I got it. He

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:08.440
<v Speaker 1>I got wow. Congratulations. Um. So, then Jack approaches her

0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 1>as she's like looking at his incredible comedy writing, and

0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.200
<v Speaker 1>at this point he is completely unhinged and he's screaming

0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 1>at her. She's terrified of him. She's swinging a baseball bat,

0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 1>she's defending herself. Good. She manages to hit him on

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.720
<v Speaker 1>the head, and then she drags his unconscious body to

0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the kitchen and then locks him up in like this

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 1>pantry storage room. I liked how obvious it was that

0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.560
<v Speaker 1>they used to stunt Jack because they cut all the

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 1>way away like Jack. Jack Nicholson was like, I'm not

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.600
<v Speaker 1>even gonna start to fall, and then cut the stunt

0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Jack who like eats ship and dowstairs. And then you're like,

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.639
<v Speaker 1>and there's Jack again, who gently walked down the stairs

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 1>and laid laid himself down. So then she goes outside

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 1>to the like snow cat snowmobile vehicle to try to escape,

0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.959
<v Speaker 1>but Jack has cut the wires and the tubes and everything.

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:11.000
<v Speaker 1>So she's trapped there and Danny is yelling about red Rum,

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 1>which spoiler murder backwards. Okay, you didn't have to ruin

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 1>that for jesus. Sorry, sorry, it's like telling you who's

0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>the masked singer. You simply don't do it. Forgive me,

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:33.200
<v Speaker 1>forgive me. Jack. Somehow we don't totally understand how gets

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 1>out of the storage room. Maybe Mr Grady the Ghost

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 1>lets him out, um, and then he starts chopping down

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the door of Wendy's room with an ax and then

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:50.120
<v Speaker 1>he's like, here's Johnny. Wendy grabs Danny and they try

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 1>to escape out the window. But then this is when

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Mr Hollowran shows up and Jack goes after him murders

0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.520
<v Speaker 1>him with an axe, and then Ac is chasing after Danny,

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 1>who runs into the maze. Wendy's back in the hotel

0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.680
<v Speaker 1>looking for Danny, and she sees a furry giving a

0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 1>blow job to someone, which I totally forgot about. Always

0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:17.960
<v Speaker 1>forget about that scene. What. I'm not sure there's any

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, does that happen in the book. No, So,

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Stanley Kubrick's just like L O L random humor absolutely

0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>does not happen I'm not sure. I this is one

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 1>of those movies where I'm like a million people are

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 1>going to be our. I mentioned like the furry obviously meant,

0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.359
<v Speaker 1>but like I couldn't make heads or tails of it,

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 1>nor could I. Okay, okay, tails, funny, Wow, that's going

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 1>in the cordon packet. In the packet it goes. So.

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Then Jack chases after Danny in the maze and he's

0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>following Danny's tracks in the snow dan a. At one

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:02.920
<v Speaker 1>point he backtracks a little bit and then he hides

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 1>his tracks, and then Jack gets lost. Danny manages to

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 1>get back out of the maze, He and Wendy escape

0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 1>in snow vehicle that Scott man Cruthers arrived in, and

0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:16.160
<v Speaker 1>then we catched the following morning, Jack has frozen to death,

0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:18.600
<v Speaker 1>and then we see a photo of him from nine

0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:25.200
<v Speaker 1>that he is in leaving a lot open to interpretations,

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 1>firing a million annoying YouTube videos, the whole genre of

0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 1>speculative bullshit that I don't sorry he would you agree

0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 1>when I say that Jack Torrence isn't your average person? Yeah?

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I agree with that. Okay, Well I know something about

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:45.640
<v Speaker 1>an average person to tell me. Also, for for everyone,

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>who was in Jack Torrance out there. The average person

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.440
<v Speaker 1>spent one third of their life sleeping and not awaken

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.400
<v Speaker 1>killing people like Jack Torrance. So you should be comfortable

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 1>while you're sleeping all that time, right right, Well that's

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.400
<v Speaker 1>where Sper comes in. Did you see that coming? Actors

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>really could have solved it if he had had Casper,

0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>I think, well, I mean in too bad. This episode

0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:14.080
<v Speaker 1>isn't about Casper, the friendly little boy girl friendly with

0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:18.119
<v Speaker 1>all his creepy uncles. Right, but this episode is about,

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 1>of course the Shining the movie whose sequel is Doctor

0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 1>Sleep because see what I did there? Because Casper is

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 1>a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help

0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.920
<v Speaker 1>you get your best rest one night at a time.

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Are you listening, Jack torrens okaying he dies? Casper products

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:45.080
<v Speaker 1>are cleverly designed to mimic human curves, which provide supportive

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:48.679
<v Speaker 1>comfort for all kinds of bodies. The original Casper mattress

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 1>combined multiple supportive memory films for quality sleep service with

0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 1>the right amount of sink and bounce. Imagine all the

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:58.840
<v Speaker 1>what do you think the ghosts would use them? You

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:00.720
<v Speaker 1>know what? I bet they're in every hotel room at

0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:03.920
<v Speaker 1>they overlook hotel. I think things would have ended so

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>differently if only if only Casper Mattress have been around

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:11.200
<v Speaker 1>she was. You know, what they also have is a

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 1>breathable design that helps regulate body temperature throughout the night,

0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 1>so you know, the ghosts and people alike won't be

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 1>overheating as they sleep. I worry about goes over here

0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 1>like a car. Casper also, Caitlyn has affordable prices because

0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 1>they cut out the middleman and they sell directly to you,

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<v Speaker 1>so they got hassle free returns if you're not completely satisfied,

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<v Speaker 1>and they have the free shipping and returns in the

0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 1>US and Canada. Now to bring us back to the shining,

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I would say, Jack Torrance really is a middleman and

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:48.680
<v Speaker 1>he really bifted up. That's right, That's something to think about.

0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:51.560
<v Speaker 1>I think that's very positive. Incredible, incredible connection. Thank you.

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Guess what, you can be sure of your purchase with

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Casper's one night risk free sleep on it trial, and

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:00.879
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0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:06.080
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0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Terms and conditions apply. That's one dollars towards select mattresses

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<v Speaker 1>at Casper dot com, slash TBC four the Bechtel Cast,

0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 1>and use TBC at checkout Sweet Dream, which is something

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>that we never hear Jack Torrens say, which brings us

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 1>back to what we were just discussing. Wow, tasteful. So

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:34.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot to discuss with this damn movie. There is, Yes,

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 1>why don't we start with adaptation stuff because I think

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:42.760
<v Speaker 1>that there is like a little more to talk about

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 1>than normal when it comes to adaptation for this specific

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:49.640
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to the book. But I'll try my best.

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't say that I'm so please, You're welcome to

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.760
<v Speaker 1>dunk on us. The one thing that I do remember

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 1>that's different as sorry if it's cutting into late instead

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:06.360
<v Speaker 1>of him being hit in the head and then being

0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 1>dragged away, he had hit his own head climbing over

0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 1>a bar. You went to go make himself a drink,

0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:16.239
<v Speaker 1>and he hit his own head and fell, and then

0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 1>she found him and dragged So this makes the movie

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:22.040
<v Speaker 1>makes her more active then yeah, okay, okay, that's interesting.

0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.440
<v Speaker 1>There's also so I haven't read the book by spoiled

0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 1>it for myself. Some things that stuck out to me

0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>where first of all, Stephen King hated the creative deviations

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 1>made from the book to the movie, which we'll get into,

0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:37.920
<v Speaker 1>but a few things that stuck out to me, and

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that there's other stuff, but I guess. There's

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 1>a point in the book where Wendy considers leaving Jack

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.440
<v Speaker 1>and Danny says, no, I want to stay with him.

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's why Wendy doesn't leave sooner, or doesn't attempt

0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>to leave, even after she knows something is very wrong.

0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Mr Hallerin is not killed off in the book. He

0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 1>helped them escape. And then there's an epilogue that takes

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 1>place the next summer um and Halleran is working in

0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Maine Stephen King, uh, and he's comforting Danny over the

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 1>loss of his dad, and Wendy is like recuperating from

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>the injuries that Jack gave her and like there it's

0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 1>like this, Yeah, so they like welcome, you know, a

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 1>more stable influence onto their lives through Mr Halleran, and

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>they moved to Maine. Because it's a Stephen King book.

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't usually like go happy endings, but I did

0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:36.920
<v Speaker 1>really like that ending because it is just adorable and good.

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm just really enjoyed it. Um, and it does seem

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>like and Corey, I mean, let me know if if

0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:45.920
<v Speaker 1>you agree. This seemed to be just the way that

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>the book plays out and what Stephen King has to

0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:53.040
<v Speaker 1>say about it more explicitly about his alcoholism and addiction

0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>more so than like some weird spirit whatever. Yeah, which

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I I appreciate. I agree with you and appreciate more.

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 1>And the sense that no addiction stuff is like really important.

0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:05.840
<v Speaker 1>It just shows a lot more. It's more realistic to me.

0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm only really like like realistic things. I mean, besides

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the whole ghost Children and whatever. I like the whole

0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 1>point where it's like, oh, it's not like a weird

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 1>like the home doing. It's like, oh, this this guy

0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>just clearly an alcoholic and abuse of alcoholic and that's okay, No,

0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 1>it's not okay, let's think. You know, it just makes

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 1>more sense to me. It just like grounds it a

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.520
<v Speaker 1>little or I mean, I I don't know, it's weird

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:29.520
<v Speaker 1>because like reading what Stephen King has to say about it,

0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 1>um kind of turned me on the movie a little bit,

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 1>just to know that he is so against the way

0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>specifically Wendy's part is written, so he gave an interview too.

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:45.080
<v Speaker 1>I believe it's the Guardian, and here's what he has

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 1>to say. He says, quote, the books Wendy does have

0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:51.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot more depth. She's fighting against the revelation which

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:54.760
<v Speaker 1>she's already made before the book starts, that her husband

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:57.960
<v Speaker 1>is basically a marginally talented writer who will never really

0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 1>amount to anything because he's filled with age, demons, self

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 1>loathing and booze. Whendy feels like her wagon has been hitched,

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 1>and the book is partly about the way she manages

0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 1>to unhitch herself and her son from an abusive alcoholic patriarch.

0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>So the hotel is like a metaphor or whatever. He

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 1>said that about the Zone book. Uh and and he

0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>and then he later in the same interview describes He says,

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:27.600
<v Speaker 1>oh sorry this interviews with the BBC. I got English

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>publications next up. Canceled me. So he says that the

0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 1>film in general to him, seemed too cold. He said, quote,

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:40.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a cold guy. Defensive Does he mean cold

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 1>like literally? Because it's snowy swish in the code we're

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:54.200
<v Speaker 1>in Uh see you later, Fellas Cordon, They're okay, it's

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 1>if I don't know I'm I would happily you know what,

0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 1>you know what? Okay, quote I'm not a cold guy.

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 1>I think one of the things people relate to in

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 1>my book is this warmth. There's a reaching out and

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:08.160
<v Speaker 1>saying to the reader, I want you to be a

0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 1>part of this. With Kubricks the shining, I felt that

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:13.520
<v Speaker 1>it was very cold, very We're looking at these people,

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:15.560
<v Speaker 1>but they're like ant and an ant hill, aren't they

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 1>doing interesting things? Shelley daval Is Wendy is really one

0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 1>of the most misogynist characters ever put on film. She's

0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:25.280
<v Speaker 1>basically just there to scream and be stupid. And that's

0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 1>not the woman I wrote about, unquote dunk, so that

0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:32.640
<v Speaker 1>is not the wrong woman he wrote about, Which is

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 1>interest because I like don't even completely like I don't

0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:43.840
<v Speaker 1>even completely agree that Kubrick's Wendy is stupid or really smart. Yeah,

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 1>she's like really active anything. She's just like she's defensive

0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and kind of just like Stockholm syndre me about her husband.

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 1>But like, I feel like a lot of women is

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:57.360
<v Speaker 1>that misogystic of me this well, just like being inside

0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>of an abusive relations and being an addict and having

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>a kid on to Yeah, that's just how it happens.

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.320
<v Speaker 1>And also they are literally trapped, So there's but that

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:11.840
<v Speaker 1>that's just for context. That is the main ways that

0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 1>it deviates from the source material. And Stephen King still

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:20.360
<v Speaker 1>does not ride for this movie even five hundred years later. Also,

0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 1>apparently there's no maze in the book and instead it's

0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 1>like these topiaries that come to life or something like that.

0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I forgot about that. Yeah, Visually, this movie is incredible,

0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Like it's so good, very well shot. This is one

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:38.840
<v Speaker 1>of the first movies that used to study cam and

0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>it is awesome. I love the shots, you know, the

0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 1>the big wheel riding around, even the panning in on

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>the on the maze and the beginning beautiful. So other

0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:57.240
<v Speaker 1>stuff that is relevant to the discussion is uh, some

0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes stuff. So the behind this scenes for

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:04.080
<v Speaker 1>this movie is like deep lore. There's that whole documentary

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:06.960
<v Speaker 1>room to thirty seven about it. The main takeaway is,

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Stanley Kubrick did not have an incredible reputation

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:14.279
<v Speaker 1>among female actors that he worked with, And the most

0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 1>egregious example is how Shelley Duval felt about her experience

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.800
<v Speaker 1>working with him. So Stanley Kubrick's daughter, he was like,

0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:26.400
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't let anyone behind the scenes or like document stuff

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:30.000
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes, which red flag. He was like, I

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>don't want people to remember how I treat other people.

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 1>So cool, but he let his daughter, who I think

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:38.640
<v Speaker 1>was like maybe twenty or twenty one at the time,

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:41.560
<v Speaker 1>document some of the behind the scenes, and the full

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 1>thing is available on YouTube. It's like a half hour long,

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:47.319
<v Speaker 1>but you can see where Shelley Duval said a number

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.799
<v Speaker 1>of times that he was verbally abusive to her to allegedly,

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, get this manic, terrified performance out of her,

0:34:56.920 --> 0:34:59.560
<v Speaker 1>but he was like yelling at her all the time,

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:02.359
<v Speaker 1>is crediting her, saying she wasn't doing a good job,

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 1>just he made her do the take with the here's

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Johnny and then Shelley has the acts one times the

0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:17.440
<v Speaker 1>most documented takes of any like of anywhere recorded um

0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and there's like firsthand footage from Stanley Kubrick's daughter of

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 1>him yelling at her on set her cry like her

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:31.239
<v Speaker 1>crying on set and no one's doing anything to help.

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.000
<v Speaker 1>And so she had a really bad experience with him

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.800
<v Speaker 1>and was vocal about it, even I mean at the

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.840
<v Speaker 1>time and then for years after, and it wasn't until

0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 1>maybe the past ten years the people have taken that

0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:50.680
<v Speaker 1>literal firsthand footage seriously of mistreating female actors, because you

0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 1>also see him work with Jack Nicholson and he is

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 1>not treated that way, and so, I mean, it definitely

0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 1>speaks to the culture on Stanley Kubrick set. It also,

0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure has a lot to do with the era

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.320
<v Speaker 1>of I mean, she was making her out to be

0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.080
<v Speaker 1>like hysterical and like, well, if you're doing a better job,

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:13.680
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't be treating you this way. Um, So that

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.520
<v Speaker 1>is I think an important piece of context specifically to

0:36:17.760 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Shelley Duval. And the reviews for this movie at the

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 1>time don't mention her performance literally at all, really know,

0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:29.759
<v Speaker 1>it's so good. So it's just it's really frustrating read

0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:33.760
<v Speaker 1>that his mistreatment of her gave her such horrible stress

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:37.480
<v Speaker 1>that she became physically ill for months and her hair

0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:39.759
<v Speaker 1>was falling out and stuff like that. And I I've

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.520
<v Speaker 1>also heard stories and take this with a grain of

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.160
<v Speaker 1>salt because I didn't do enough reading up on this,

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.279
<v Speaker 1>so this is sort of just like anecdotal stuff I've

0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:49.720
<v Speaker 1>heard over the years, But that he treated Skeettman Cruthers

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the same way, having him do dozens and dozens and

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:59.200
<v Speaker 1>dozens of takes of the same shot and interesting he

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 1>would be like, do you want me to do differently?

0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Like please, just like tell me, like how can I

0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:07.320
<v Speaker 1>make this the take that you want? And Stanley Krubricks

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:10.480
<v Speaker 1>just like do it again. It's just it's like, incredibly

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.840
<v Speaker 1>I I hadn't read that. That's like incredibly frustrating and

0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 1>still the problem that it's like there's an anecdote from

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:22.600
<v Speaker 1>fucking the Joker movie of just like ship that white

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:25.959
<v Speaker 1>male leads can get away with on set that their

0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:29.239
<v Speaker 1>co stars just can't. Were like it came up at

0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:32.239
<v Speaker 1>the time of recording the other day where you know what,

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Keen Phoenix is allowed to go totally method. So he's

0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:40.240
<v Speaker 1>just being a fucking dick to everyone and making everyone's

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.240
<v Speaker 1>who's making you know, point five percent of what he's making,

0:37:43.600 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 1>he's just making their lives way more difficult, except for

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Robert de Niro, who he was very well behaved with

0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and turned his character on and off demonstrating almost like

0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:56.200
<v Speaker 1>it's not necessary and he just enjoys being horrible to people.

0:37:57.000 --> 0:38:00.800
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, it's it's something that's still happens. But

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 1>this is like a I think, a particularly egregious example

0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>of like abuse of power in a director's role. So

0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:12.240
<v Speaker 1>that is bad and also not for nothing. Stanley Cooper

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 1>has a uh not an incredible record of female characters

0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:23.960
<v Speaker 1>in his films either uh he uh put it in

0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:29.920
<v Speaker 1>the cart and packet. He doesn't seem to prioritize female

0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:33.920
<v Speaker 1>characters literally at all. Um, if they're one woman in

0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:37.640
<v Speaker 1>full metal jacket, that might be the full Metal Jacket.

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, that's the movie that famously has that very

0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:52.080
<v Speaker 1>like racist portrayal of like Vietnamese sex workers. It's like,

0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 1>that's like those are the only women too. Literally A

0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.320
<v Speaker 1>million times, I think those are the only women. And

0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:02.520
<v Speaker 1>as far as I know, on his in his filmography

0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:05.759
<v Speaker 1>or whatever his canonical filmography, the only movie he ever

0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:11.000
<v Speaker 1>makes with a female lead is Low and I can

0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:14.799
<v Speaker 1>speak to That's one of the I've I've seen. I've

0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:16.480
<v Speaker 1>seen a bunch of his movies, but I think that

0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 1>The Shining and Lolita are the two that I've seen

0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:23.959
<v Speaker 1>the most because that is I mean, it's obviously super

0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:26.960
<v Speaker 1>controversial work to begin with, but has has been adapted

0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>horrendously both times. It was attempted, and yeah, Kubrick fucking

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:36.239
<v Speaker 1>botches it and the only time, and then you know,

0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:38.440
<v Speaker 1>that's in nineteen sixty two, and he's like, I know

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:41.279
<v Speaker 1>what I'll do, never make a movie abouttle woman again.

0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:44.359
<v Speaker 1>So that and then and then the last little piece

0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:47.719
<v Speaker 1>of the context corner that I'll kick in here is

0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:51.239
<v Speaker 1>that this movie or the screenplay is co written with

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:54.919
<v Speaker 1>a female author, which, you know, give him a little

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:57.840
<v Speaker 1>give him a little point at the end. She was

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:01.000
<v Speaker 1>well known, not of the list at this time, but

0:40:01.080 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>she had never written a screenplay before. This is Diane Johnson.

0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Diane Johnson say her name, but yeah, so Diane Johnson.

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:13.560
<v Speaker 1>I guess Kubrick her work was brought to his attention.

0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:15.600
<v Speaker 1>He liked it, He thought she would be a good

0:40:15.640 --> 0:40:19.480
<v Speaker 1>collaborator on it, and she wrote an essay about it

0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:24.440
<v Speaker 1>last year on a film journal called Scraps from the Loft,

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 1>and by all accounts, it seemed like she had a

0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:31.319
<v Speaker 1>lovely time working with him. So you know, it's it's

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.479
<v Speaker 1>all He didn't sclaim at her and make her cry

0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 1>all the time and make her hair fall out. Nope,

0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:41.520
<v Speaker 1>as far as we know, some things are unken. But

0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:44.480
<v Speaker 1>as of but as of eighteen. I mean she describes

0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 1>him being like he was kind of notoriously a weird guy,

0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:55.200
<v Speaker 1>but not like he's sure that he's so dead as

0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:59.200
<v Speaker 1>long as he's like fully done. So anyways, that's the

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:01.840
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a d context corner, but there it is.

0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 1>No thank you very much. That's all very helpful. So

0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:12.040
<v Speaker 1>let's get into the narrative the characters. I would here's

0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:23.840
<v Speaker 1>here's here we go. I would argue that there could

0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>be a feminist read of this movie in the same

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:32.360
<v Speaker 1>way that there can be a feminist read of Rosemary's Baby,

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 1>for example, a movie that we did talk about where

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:38.799
<v Speaker 1>even though the female character, because there is really only

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:43.359
<v Speaker 1>one unless you count the twins acts murdered or naked Lady,

0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the one female character in the movie who has any

0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:52.000
<v Speaker 1>narrative significance is not empowered. But I feel like the

0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 1>movie it shows the horrors of being a victim of abuse,

0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:01.680
<v Speaker 1>and in this movie, unlike Mary's Baby, she is triumphant

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:03.840
<v Speaker 1>in the end and she gets away from her abuser.

0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:07.440
<v Speaker 1>And I think that most of the horror in this

0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:12.600
<v Speaker 1>movie doesn't come from any of the like supernatural blood

0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 1>gushing out of the elevator, like, none of that stuff

0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:17.520
<v Speaker 1>really affected me. The stuff that affects me is like

0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:21.920
<v Speaker 1>the abuse that she endors. So I chose to to

0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:26.360
<v Speaker 1>watch this movie on my second rewatch through the lens

0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:31.480
<v Speaker 1>of just her being in an abusive relationship, and I

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:36.520
<v Speaker 1>found that, like all the supernatural ghosts and psychic stuff

0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:38.719
<v Speaker 1>and all that stuff ends up just sort of being

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 1>metaphors for the horrors that take place when someone is

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:48.960
<v Speaker 1>in an abusive relationship. I think that that is the intention. Yes, good,

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I did a good job. Um, yeah, I I agree

0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.880
<v Speaker 1>with you too. To the next I mean, it's it's tricky.

0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:00.560
<v Speaker 1>It's I think that it ends up kind of coloring

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.279
<v Speaker 1>my rate of it a little bit when we know

0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 1>that they were given more with the source material and

0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 1>chose not to use. It feels telling in some ways.

0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:12.719
<v Speaker 1>But she does, I mean, she certainly has a lot

0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 1>of agency. Um. I mean, especially as a story goes on,

0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:19.840
<v Speaker 1>it's weird. I mean it it does sort of speak

0:43:19.920 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to a lot of like the hallmarks of being in

0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:25.200
<v Speaker 1>an abusive relationship where she's saying one thing, but it's

0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:28.359
<v Speaker 1>very clear that she's scared. Uh. There's like a lot

0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.320
<v Speaker 1>of examples of her appeasing him to protect herself and

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:36.960
<v Speaker 1>to protect Danny. Yeah, I mean it's like it's it's horrifying.

0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:39.520
<v Speaker 1>And I feel like there have been some because there

0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:44.000
<v Speaker 1>was after Stephen King like shot upon the movie, there

0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:49.160
<v Speaker 1>was sort of this avalanche of clickbait or thoughtful film

0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:51.960
<v Speaker 1>commentary depending on how you read it, that was agreeing

0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:54.759
<v Speaker 1>with him. But I feel like the in a lot

0:43:54.840 --> 0:43:56.839
<v Speaker 1>of that where they're like, well, she she's made out

0:43:56.920 --> 0:43:59.680
<v Speaker 1>to be, you know, dumb, and she why doesn't she

0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:05.600
<v Speaker 1>even I'm like, well, that's the victim blameing. Yeah, So,

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean I think I think her care and especially

0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Shelley Deval does an amazing job because she you can

0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:13.359
<v Speaker 1>tell she's lying for the most part, and you can

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:16.200
<v Speaker 1>tell that she's like physically afraid of him, and we

0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:19.080
<v Speaker 1>have reason to be physically afraid of him, and we

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 1>know that the whole movie, which is just like, yeah, well,

0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I did kind of like a beat by beat sort

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.120
<v Speaker 1>of breakdown all the story beats that relate to the

0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:32.520
<v Speaker 1>abuse of relationships. So I just kind of want to

0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:36.080
<v Speaker 1>like go through them and like just sort of analyze

0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:39.319
<v Speaker 1>it a bit. Uh So, the first thing you kind

0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:42.399
<v Speaker 1>of realize is that Wendy seems to be doing all

0:44:42.520 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 1>of the parenting of Danny, So Jack is very hands off.

0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 1>He's focused on his job, both in his hotel duties,

0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:54.720
<v Speaker 1>which he doesn't ever end up actually doing, and Wendy

0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:56.880
<v Speaker 1>does all of it because she's the one who's like

0:44:57.400 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 1>checking the phone lines, checking the boilers, checking voltage right,

0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:08.560
<v Speaker 1>and because he's focusing on his cordon packet is hard

0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:13.680
<v Speaker 1>so it's not easy to write, so he's not really

0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 1>paying attention to to Danny at all. She's doing all

0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:21.400
<v Speaker 1>of the emotional labor of parenting. Was this the dynamic

0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:26.880
<v Speaker 1>of many American families throughout most of history? Yes, but

0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:30.560
<v Speaker 1>that was like the first thing I noticed. Um toward

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:34.080
<v Speaker 1>the beginning, Wendy brings him breakfast, which she has made

0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 1>him eggs, just the way he likes, sunny side up.

0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:40.400
<v Speaker 1>And then meanwhile he has slept into like eleven thirty.

0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:44.080
<v Speaker 1>She's presumably been up for hours, like taking care of

0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:47.799
<v Speaker 1>their son. He expresses no regret at all. He's like, oh,

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.080
<v Speaker 1>weird that I slept so late, right, And then yeah, no,

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:54.800
<v Speaker 1>also no gratitude that she made him and brought him breakfast,

0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:57.160
<v Speaker 1>and then she says, oh, it's a nice day. Would

0:45:57.200 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 1>you take me for a walk after you finished breakfast,

0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:02.920
<v Speaker 1>and he responds, I need to get some writing done first,

0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 1>so they don't hang out. She instead goes on a

0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>walk through the Maze with Danny. A little while later,

0:46:10.239 --> 0:46:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Jack is typing at his typewriter and then when he

0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:15.920
<v Speaker 1>comes in and she's like, Hey, how's it going. Have

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:18.200
<v Speaker 1>you gotten a lot written today? And then he basically

0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:23.120
<v Speaker 1>starts be writing, her saying like, you're interrupting me, You're

0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:26.279
<v Speaker 1>breaking my concentration. Please get the funk out. He's ripping

0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.720
<v Speaker 1>up paper, he's throwing them. He's like having a tantrum.

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:32.000
<v Speaker 1>And this is like, I think maybe the first time

0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 1>that you see hints that he's like a scary, violent, unhinged,

0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:41.839
<v Speaker 1>abusive person. I always used to read his behavior as

0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:46.560
<v Speaker 1>like being the result of being in isolation and the

0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:50.480
<v Speaker 1>like creepy hotel ghosts stuff like getting to him and

0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:53.839
<v Speaker 1>haunting him. But this time I read it as he's

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:57.360
<v Speaker 1>always been emotionally abusive. It has nothing to do with

0:46:57.440 --> 0:47:01.080
<v Speaker 1>the hotel. He's just a horrible person, and the creepy

0:47:01.120 --> 0:47:04.879
<v Speaker 1>stuff in the hotel is just like metaphors for him

0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 1>being a horrible abuser. And it was like at the

0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:10.840
<v Speaker 1>fact that they set that up at the beginning and

0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.520
<v Speaker 1>say that this has happened so many times. It sets

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:19.120
<v Speaker 1>up like the abuse cycle as a metaphor, and somebody

0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:20.719
<v Speaker 1>who doesn't know how to look into things like that,

0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:23.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh, it looks really pretty. The movie is gorgeous,

0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:25.000
<v Speaker 1>And then you guys say that, I'm like, oh, yeah,

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:28.640
<v Speaker 1>people look movies mean things. It's I mean, but then

0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:37.920
<v Speaker 1>sometimes they don't. But it is like they set up

0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:40.239
<v Speaker 1>the idea at the beginning of the movie that if

0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:45.319
<v Speaker 1>an already angry, rage filled man is left in isolation,

0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:49.920
<v Speaker 1>that they will become violent. Yeah. Then we see that

0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.319
<v Speaker 1>scene where he's like yelling in his sleep and then

0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:54.200
<v Speaker 1>he wakes up from his nightmare and he's like, oh

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:57.720
<v Speaker 1>my god, I had this awful dream where I killed

0:47:57.800 --> 0:47:59.759
<v Speaker 1>you and Danny and chopped you up into bits, and

0:47:59.840 --> 0:48:03.319
<v Speaker 1>like he's expressing remorse, which I took as like being

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.480
<v Speaker 1>symbolic of like when abusers say to their partners like,

0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.000
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I just got angry. It'll never happen again.

0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Please don't leave me. I love you. So then shortly

0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:18.400
<v Speaker 1>after that we have the scene where he reveals to

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:22.439
<v Speaker 1>the bartender that he's accidentally one time he quote accidentally

0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 1>lost his temper and hurt says. He says he had

0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:30.640
<v Speaker 1>a momentary loss of muscular coordination, which is just like

0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:36.719
<v Speaker 1>the a very well written piece of fuckory right exactly.

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:40.480
<v Speaker 1>And then this is also when he starts to be

0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:46.760
<v Speaker 1>vocal about how he blames Wendy for ruining his life,

0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:49.960
<v Speaker 1>for like his mind, turning him into this loser kind

0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:53.879
<v Speaker 1>of person. He says something like, oh, that bitch will

0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:57.040
<v Speaker 1>not let me forget. What happened is long three years ago,

0:48:57.239 --> 0:49:01.680
<v Speaker 1>like it's just like three years ago that oh yeah.

0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:05.839
<v Speaker 1>Then Wendy comes running in and says, you know, there's

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:07.919
<v Speaker 1>a crazy woman in one of the rooms. She tried

0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 1>to strangle Danny, and then his Jack's first response is

0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:13.680
<v Speaker 1>are you out of your fucking mind? So he doesn't

0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:16.319
<v Speaker 1>believe her. She keeps telling him about it, and then

0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:18.439
<v Speaker 1>he goes to investigate, and this is when he makes

0:49:18.480 --> 0:49:23.000
<v Speaker 1>out with a young lady and then corpse lady um.

0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:26.640
<v Speaker 1>And then when he comes back, he lies to Wendy

0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:30.600
<v Speaker 1>about what happened and then accuses Danny of giving himself

0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 1>his own bruises, even though I think it's one of

0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.959
<v Speaker 1>the more confusing parts of the movie. To me, that's

0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:40.200
<v Speaker 1>like where and I don't know exactly if this deviates

0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:42.160
<v Speaker 1>from the book, but that's the one point where it

0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:45.840
<v Speaker 1>didn't totally track for me Wendy's thought process, because I

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:50.240
<v Speaker 1>just don't it's she already knows she doesn't trust her husband,

0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:53.200
<v Speaker 1>especially when it comes to her son. I don't know

0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:55.600
<v Speaker 1>like that, that's the one point in the narrative where

0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:57.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I don't understand why you would take him

0:49:57.880 --> 0:49:59.440
<v Speaker 1>at his word for that. Well, it's like I feel like,

0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:01.880
<v Speaker 1>if anything, it's like everyone in that situation is in

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:04.640
<v Speaker 1>denial about It's almost the stuff like he's even being like,

0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:06.680
<v Speaker 1>oh no, he did into himself. Because in a way,

0:50:06.719 --> 0:50:08.879
<v Speaker 1>it's also a metaphor of like the abuse part, because

0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:10.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of abusers were like, oh no,

0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:13.600
<v Speaker 1>they just did this because they did this, and you're like, yeah, no,

0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:16.120
<v Speaker 1>they did it to themselves. I also read it as

0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:23.080
<v Speaker 1>like Wendy making excuses just for like, oh, well, survival instinct,

0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:25.800
<v Speaker 1>exactly the way that a lot of abuse victims have

0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.480
<v Speaker 1>to do for self preservation. Um. So that's how I

0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:33.520
<v Speaker 1>read that. Uh, And then right after that, whenever Wendy's like,

0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:35.920
<v Speaker 1>we've got to get Danny out of here. And then

0:50:36.280 --> 0:50:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Jack freaks the funk out and he's like, oh, that's

0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:41.880
<v Speaker 1>so typical of you to create a problem like this,

0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:45.560
<v Speaker 1>where you know, I finally have the chance to accomplish

0:50:45.600 --> 0:50:48.360
<v Speaker 1>something and you've funked up my life and I let

0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:49.520
<v Speaker 1>you funk it up, but I'm not going to do

0:50:49.640 --> 0:50:53.080
<v Speaker 1>that anymore. So now he's like gaslighting her, blaming her

0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:57.160
<v Speaker 1>for all of his problems. The scene that was most

0:50:57.280 --> 0:51:00.840
<v Speaker 1>jarring and felt like most that metaphor really hit for me,

0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:03.759
<v Speaker 1>is she so right after that, she hits him on

0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:06.640
<v Speaker 1>the head and he falls. She drags him, and then

0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:09.879
<v Speaker 1>after he's locked in the kitchen like freeze or whatever,

0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:13.359
<v Speaker 1>and he's trying to convince her to let him out,

0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and that gentle manipulation where you keep where you keep

0:51:17.040 --> 0:51:20.600
<v Speaker 1>cutting back to him fully like laughing at like the

0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:23.239
<v Speaker 1>fact that she's starting to believe that he could be

0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:27.720
<v Speaker 1>telling the truth. And then she like stands her ground

0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and she's like, sorry, but I'm leaving and I'm taking

0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 1>our son, and like you're not gonna be able to

0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.560
<v Speaker 1>hurt us anymore. And then you know, like the reveal

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:39.080
<v Speaker 1>to her, I guess that he's really never going to

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:43.120
<v Speaker 1>change and just so, yeah, what happens there? He tries

0:51:43.200 --> 0:51:47.439
<v Speaker 1>three different tactics. First, he's like just irate and screaming, saying,

0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:49.919
<v Speaker 1>get me the funk out of here, like open this door.

0:51:50.200 --> 0:51:54.080
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't comply. The second tactic is, oh, no, you really,

0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:56.239
<v Speaker 1>I think you really hurt me on my head. I

0:51:56.360 --> 0:51:59.400
<v Speaker 1>need a doctor. Trying to like appeal to her more

0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 1>nurturing sensibilities also doesn't work. She doesn't fall for it,

0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.879
<v Speaker 1>and then she's like, i'mgoing I'll bring a doctor back.

0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:08.120
<v Speaker 1>That's what she tells him. Who knows. I imagine that

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:09.840
<v Speaker 1>she probably would have just gotten the hell out of

0:52:09.880 --> 0:52:12.200
<v Speaker 1>there and never come back. So she's like, I'm leaving,

0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:13.799
<v Speaker 1>I'll bring a doctor back. And then he's like, you're

0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:16.480
<v Speaker 1>not going anywhere. I snipped all those wires for that

0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:20.160
<v Speaker 1>snow vehicle um, which I think both him cutting the

0:52:20.239 --> 0:52:25.160
<v Speaker 1>wires of the snow cat and he dismantles the radio

0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:28.719
<v Speaker 1>earlier on, I think is a metaphor for when abusers

0:52:29.239 --> 0:52:35.680
<v Speaker 1>cut off communication victims. It's loaded and and it is

0:52:35.960 --> 0:52:39.360
<v Speaker 1>like the fact that she is triumphant is kind of

0:52:39.719 --> 0:52:42.120
<v Speaker 1>especially for like this era and I guess we we

0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:45.120
<v Speaker 1>like Stephen King gets the credit for this because that

0:52:45.400 --> 0:52:47.319
<v Speaker 1>was you know, she escapes in the story as well,

0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But like that seems like kind of like a uncharacteristically

0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:53.680
<v Speaker 1>like kind of cool, like, oh she got she got out,

0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.680
<v Speaker 1>like and he and he you know, quote unquote got

0:52:56.880 --> 0:53:01.640
<v Speaker 1>his um for for treating them that way. Yeah, but yeah,

0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:05.080
<v Speaker 1>they're watching it with that in mind. Is like, I

0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:10.040
<v Speaker 1>understand Stephen King's criticisms, and I think that there is

0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:13.919
<v Speaker 1>sometimes something to be said for like if it takes

0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:17.160
<v Speaker 1>you five viewings to get there, you know, I mean

0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:19.640
<v Speaker 1>some people view that as like, oh, it's so deep

0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:22.759
<v Speaker 1>and and you can also view it as like how

0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:25.920
<v Speaker 1>clear should things be in movies? But I guess, you know,

0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't fall any particular place there. But I didn't

0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:33.640
<v Speaker 1>notice that the first five or six times I watched it,

0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:35.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean same, I was taking it pretty much at

0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:40.200
<v Speaker 1>phase value in terms of like the hotels haunted. Somebody

0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:42.200
<v Speaker 1>who's watching it fifteen times half of the things you

0:53:42.239 --> 0:53:45.520
<v Speaker 1>said I never considered, so I don't even want So

0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 1>it's like, how I mean that that's like a more

0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:52.640
<v Speaker 1>existential artiste question will have to ask. And we also

0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:56.040
<v Speaker 1>might be giving because we're doing this like feminist read

0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:59.239
<v Speaker 1>of it, maybe we're giving everything too much credit. Like

0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm really very like Leary to give Stanley kuber Kuber

0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:08.319
<v Speaker 1>credit too much. I'm but it seems like at least

0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:11.239
<v Speaker 1>a little is out here. But I would also say

0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:17.279
<v Speaker 1>that Diane Johnson was yeah, like she and she has

0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a pretty good track record with like, um, she'd written

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.680
<v Speaker 1>a number of like feminist novels prior to this. So

0:54:23.120 --> 0:54:25.920
<v Speaker 1>there's that and and and it's like in the DNA

0:54:26.040 --> 0:54:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of Stephen King's story that she's triumphant and a lot

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:33.640
<v Speaker 1>of the metaphors were like in the book. So I'm

0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:37.120
<v Speaker 1>gonna just not hand it to Kubrick and handed to

0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the other two people. Um, but yeah, I think it

0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.600
<v Speaker 1>is like very and the performance like deserves a lot

0:54:42.680 --> 0:54:46.160
<v Speaker 1>of credit too, because it was, like, god, it was incredible.

0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:49.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't I think it's absolutely it was not necessary

0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to abuse her to get that performance. She's given a

0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:57.040
<v Speaker 1>number of performances, but um, yeah, Shelley Deval kills it.

0:54:58.080 --> 0:54:59.840
<v Speaker 1>That said, though, there there were moments where I'm like

0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:04.000
<v Speaker 1>the way like she's running with a knife, kind of

0:55:04.120 --> 0:55:07.360
<v Speaker 1>flailing it around, and it kind of it. I don't know.

0:55:07.560 --> 0:55:10.360
<v Speaker 1>It just read to me is like a come on,

0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:14.799
<v Speaker 1>can't can't she be a little I don't like, Well

0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:19.880
<v Speaker 1>that's what I'm it's because well then I sat down

0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and thought about I was like, no, like, she has

0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:25.920
<v Speaker 1>been emotionally abused the whole time we've seen him interact

0:55:25.960 --> 0:55:30.480
<v Speaker 1>on screen together. He's being abusive, so like, you know,

0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:33.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, she's holding that bat so stupidly. But then

0:55:33.960 --> 0:55:35.880
<v Speaker 1>also like if I, you know, if any of us

0:55:35.960 --> 0:55:39.920
<v Speaker 1>were like, yeah, victim right, like I would be so

0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:42.920
<v Speaker 1>scared that I couldn't do anything even not scared, I

0:55:42.960 --> 0:55:44.960
<v Speaker 1>can't hold the fucking bat? What are you talking about it?

0:55:45.760 --> 0:55:47.680
<v Speaker 1>It would have been like I mean, and it would

0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:50.440
<v Speaker 1>have been cathartic to see her be like dope with weapons.

0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:51.840
<v Speaker 1>But I feel like that would have been like a

0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:55.279
<v Speaker 1>Merry Sioux move because given what we know about her life,

0:55:55.320 --> 0:55:57.400
<v Speaker 1>the fact that she hasn't really been allowed to have

0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:00.239
<v Speaker 1>ambitions or hobbies that we know of outside of being

0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:03.920
<v Speaker 1>a wife and a mother, it doesn't make sense and

0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:07.279
<v Speaker 1>softball on the weekends, and then that see that if

0:56:07.320 --> 0:56:10.960
<v Speaker 1>they had been like, well maybe if you weren't softballing

0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:13.480
<v Speaker 1>so much, then it wouldn't have been I would have

0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:16.400
<v Speaker 1>been pissed about the bad thing, right. Yeah, so I

0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 1>think we've been trained as like movie watchers to see

0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:25.520
<v Speaker 1>these like strong female protagonists who are actually criminally underwritten,

0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:29.400
<v Speaker 1>and like when they suddenly, like against all odds, managed

0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:32.200
<v Speaker 1>to like kick someone's ass even if it doesn't make

0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:35.440
<v Speaker 1>sense for their character, we're like, but we're like, who

0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:38.320
<v Speaker 1>a woman being triumphant? Yeah, we love to see it,

0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:42.080
<v Speaker 1>but in a lot of cases it wouldn't have actually

0:56:42.160 --> 0:56:45.839
<v Speaker 1>happened that way. I was. Let's say something that even

0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:47.600
<v Speaker 1>in the time we've been doing this podcast and like, go,

0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:50.799
<v Speaker 1>I I never I didn't always think of it that way. Yeah. Same,

0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:55.879
<v Speaker 1>Growing with age incredible. We've got to take another quick break,

0:56:56.320 --> 0:57:06.040
<v Speaker 1>but we'll come back from more. Yeah, did anything else

0:57:06.080 --> 0:57:10.680
<v Speaker 1>to say about Wendy specifically? So, in addition to being um,

0:57:11.040 --> 0:57:14.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, abused and gaslet by Jack, there is a

0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:18.200
<v Speaker 1>brief moment where she's kind of lied to in Gaslet

0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:22.240
<v Speaker 1>by Mr Hallerran. It's not as nefarious, but it's the

0:57:22.320 --> 0:57:28.200
<v Speaker 1>scene where careful Halleran stan over here. Um he keeps

0:57:28.360 --> 0:57:32.360
<v Speaker 1>calling Danny doc and she's like, how did you know

0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:35.040
<v Speaker 1>we call him? Doc and he's like, oh, I don't know,

0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I probably just heard you say it. And Wendy, who

0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:41.920
<v Speaker 1>is smart and resourceful and attentive, is like, well, yeah,

0:57:41.960 --> 0:57:43.480
<v Speaker 1>we do call him that, but I'm pretty sure I

0:57:43.520 --> 0:57:45.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't say that in front of you. And he was

0:57:45.120 --> 0:57:47.880
<v Speaker 1>just like, I don't know that. Maybe he did. She

0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:50.440
<v Speaker 1>calls him on it, and then I don't know, I'm

0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:57.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm halleran hive over here. He has. She yes, I

0:57:57.520 --> 0:57:59.680
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's like explicit. Yeah. I didn't have a

0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:02.240
<v Speaker 1>big a problem with it, but it just kind we

0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:06.320
<v Speaker 1>found out right after why because that we found on

0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the media, right, because otherwise he's sitting Wendy down being like, well,

0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:12.200
<v Speaker 1>here's the thing. I'm psychic. I know it doesn't make

0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:16.120
<v Speaker 1>sense your son's also psychic. Tony is real like his

0:58:16.280 --> 0:58:19.000
<v Speaker 1>options are limited. In that moment, for sure, Yeah, it didn't.

0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:21.680
<v Speaker 1>It didn't really bother me, but I was like, oh, wow,

0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:25.960
<v Speaker 1>every man in this movie is lying to Wendy. Cool. Yes,

0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:30.280
<v Speaker 1>but since we're talking about Mr Halloran, I think that

0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:36.040
<v Speaker 1>it is worth discussing the way this movie treats race

0:58:36.680 --> 0:58:42.040
<v Speaker 1>as well as Native American culture. I don't think that

0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:45.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and again, we are three white ladies sitting

0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:49.640
<v Speaker 1>in a room. Um so any outside perspective is please.

0:58:50.480 --> 0:58:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Um But I mean I didn't think that it was

0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:58.240
<v Speaker 1>handled especially well starting with the whole. I mean, part

0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:01.680
<v Speaker 1>of what is distracting for the metaphor of the cycle

0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:04.680
<v Speaker 1>of abuse and addiction and all that is the throwaway

0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:07.800
<v Speaker 1>mentioned that it's built on a quote unquote Indian burial ground,

0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:12.640
<v Speaker 1>which from what we can tell, has literally not it's

0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.000
<v Speaker 1>just too it's just to make it seem like, oh,

0:59:15.040 --> 0:59:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the hotel is haunted, but the haunting has nothing to

0:59:18.400 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 1>do with Native Americans. There's also the line, um per

0:59:24.360 --> 0:59:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the movie built on an Indian burial ground and the

0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.520
<v Speaker 1>builders had to repel a few Indian attacks as they

0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:34.000
<v Speaker 1>were building it. I don't know how common of a

0:59:34.120 --> 0:59:37.960
<v Speaker 1>thing this is in Stephen King books, but I'm pretty

0:59:38.000 --> 0:59:41.400
<v Speaker 1>sure it also is the case for pet cemetery, where

0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:46.720
<v Speaker 1>like that was like another like indigenous burial ground. And

0:59:46.760 --> 0:59:49.880
<v Speaker 1>then when you bury your you know, children in it,

0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:55.760
<v Speaker 1>they'll come back as you know, scary possessed children. Um

0:59:56.120 --> 1:00:04.680
<v Speaker 1>so as scary cats. I haven't seen the movie, which

1:00:05.320 --> 1:00:09.800
<v Speaker 1>goes without saying, perpetuates negative ideas about Indigenous people and

1:00:09.960 --> 1:00:13.640
<v Speaker 1>cultures and just kind of an altogether disregard for what

1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:17.360
<v Speaker 1>that means at all. Like I think that it's like

1:00:17.600 --> 1:00:20.720
<v Speaker 1>I would wager to guess that Stephen King gave very

1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:24.439
<v Speaker 1>little consideration and was I mean, and and he sort

1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:26.280
<v Speaker 1>of does us with Mr Halloran as well of just

1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:33.400
<v Speaker 1>attributing magic to non white people and as a plot device. Um,

1:00:33.560 --> 1:00:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and I think that Mr Halloran is treated in much

1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:40.800
<v Speaker 1>the same way, right, Yeah. I think he could very

1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:46.600
<v Speaker 1>easily fall into like the magical negro stereotype trope that

1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:52.200
<v Speaker 1>exists in lots of fiction. It's still a prevalent trope today.

1:00:52.520 --> 1:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>They're there for everyone who's seen both seasons of Big

1:00:57.040 --> 1:01:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Little Lies. There was a major issue with that trope

1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:03.240
<v Speaker 1>on Big Little Lies two months ago, so it is

1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:06.080
<v Speaker 1>not something that I mean, it's more likely to be

1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:09.760
<v Speaker 1>identified and called out now, but it's still gets signed

1:01:09.800 --> 1:01:11.840
<v Speaker 1>off on by a lot of people. Um. Yeah, I

1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:15.240
<v Speaker 1>think that that definitely is the one thing that is

1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:20.520
<v Speaker 1>at least is like the narrative function works where he

1:01:20.680 --> 1:01:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and Danny need to communicate for the plot to work,

1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:25.600
<v Speaker 1>but it's we know nothing else about him other than

1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:30.120
<v Speaker 1>he's psychic. He knows about the Shining he sort of

1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:33.720
<v Speaker 1>almost seems to exist out of time. Uh. And he

1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:38.320
<v Speaker 1>has a lot of naked posters in his bedroom, right,

1:01:38.360 --> 1:01:43.120
<v Speaker 1>which is a weird joke, like because the movie verily,

1:01:43.480 --> 1:01:47.360
<v Speaker 1>very deliberately frames so that you can see the posters.

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:53.320
<v Speaker 1>And maybe that's commentary about something I could couldn't but

1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:57.640
<v Speaker 1>we don't know. We don't know the hollerin hive, we

1:01:58.560 --> 1:02:01.640
<v Speaker 1>were okay with it, but you know, it's like, he's whatever.

1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:03.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but I do think that the movie's

1:02:03.840 --> 1:02:07.480
<v Speaker 1>explicit choice to kill him off is also a very

1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:10.160
<v Speaker 1>trophy horror thing because that doesn't happen in the books,

1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and there's such a like well tracked record of I mean,

1:02:15.080 --> 1:02:18.000
<v Speaker 1>like a black person being the first to die in

1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:22.200
<v Speaker 1>a horror movie. And Mr Hallern is the only person

1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:26.800
<v Speaker 1>who is the only innocent person who dies, even though

1:02:26.880 --> 1:02:31.280
<v Speaker 1>he's basically like he and Wendy together are the heroes

1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:33.800
<v Speaker 1>of the story, and they managed to save Danny. And

1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:38.040
<v Speaker 1>then why couldn't Kirk Letting move to Maine like he

1:02:38.160 --> 1:02:42.520
<v Speaker 1>does in the book The halleren Hive has spoken? Was

1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:47.360
<v Speaker 1>he written in the book Corey as black? Do you remember? Okay?

1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:50.440
<v Speaker 1>So at least they didn't I guess whitewash that character,

1:02:50.880 --> 1:02:53.960
<v Speaker 1>but even so killing him off was a mistake. We

1:02:54.160 --> 1:02:57.440
<v Speaker 1>also should talk about the scene in which Jack and

1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Mr Grady, who is like acting as called like a

1:03:01.040 --> 1:03:04.440
<v Speaker 1>butlery type of person in the bathroom and the N

1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:08.400
<v Speaker 1>word gets dropped several times by both of them, and

1:03:08.680 --> 1:03:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Mr Grady is basically saying like, hey, Jack, keep an

1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:17.200
<v Speaker 1>eye on that family yours because they're being troublesome. And

1:03:17.520 --> 1:03:20.280
<v Speaker 1>also your son he's got this talent and he's using

1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:23.360
<v Speaker 1>it to try to bring in an outside party. And

1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:27.280
<v Speaker 1>then they start talking about Mr Halleran, and you dropped

1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:30.640
<v Speaker 1>the N word the slurs, which I think is the

1:03:30.840 --> 1:03:36.040
<v Speaker 1>characters being racist and not the movie being racist, but

1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:42.920
<v Speaker 1>also that one. I don't think that. I mean, I

1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:44.360
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I see what you're saying, though, because I

1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:46.600
<v Speaker 1>don't think that they would have had Wendy say that.

1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Definitely not I don't think, but I don't know's it's

1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:54.600
<v Speaker 1>hard to hard to know, um, but I think because

1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:59.560
<v Speaker 1>those characters are framed as they are acts murders, yes,

1:04:00.160 --> 1:04:03.440
<v Speaker 1>so they're like their friend is being horribly racist and

1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:08.080
<v Speaker 1>horribly misogynist. Because again Mr Grady is like, yeah, my

1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:10.760
<v Speaker 1>wife was causing problems and so were my daughters. So

1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:13.720
<v Speaker 1>I killed them because I hate women, and also I

1:04:13.840 --> 1:04:16.200
<v Speaker 1>hate the women in your family, Jack, so you should

1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:19.920
<v Speaker 1>probably kill her too. It's harder. Yeah, it's harder. I mean,

1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:22.960
<v Speaker 1>it's hard no matter what. But in the movie, I

1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:27.520
<v Speaker 1>feel like it sucks more because than the only black

1:04:27.600 --> 1:04:31.520
<v Speaker 1>character in the movie has such an abrupt and that

1:04:31.680 --> 1:04:34.680
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't intended for them, So I feel like it. Yeah,

1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:39.440
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, so I mean again, it's like Kubrick does

1:04:39.520 --> 1:04:42.640
<v Speaker 1>not handle race well in this movie. Yeah. And if

1:04:42.680 --> 1:04:46.160
<v Speaker 1>there's if there's anything we miss, please let us know again.

1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Three White Ladies in the Room, Um, something that I

1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:52.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted to talk a little bit about Danny and how

1:04:53.520 --> 1:04:57.080
<v Speaker 1>the rein of the this movie that we've been discussing,

1:04:58.080 --> 1:05:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know like it it. It hit for me

1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:05.160
<v Speaker 1>like kind of different this time. Thank you. I was

1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:07.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to like work my way around not saying that,

1:05:07.560 --> 1:05:10.400
<v Speaker 1>and then I just ended up there. Anyways, put it

1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:14.920
<v Speaker 1>in the cordon back and it's gold good. But when

1:05:15.000 --> 1:05:19.560
<v Speaker 1>you're watching it as like a little boy who is

1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:25.160
<v Speaker 1>dealing with an addicted parent versus a little boy who's

1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:30.880
<v Speaker 1>dealing with a ghost, that scene, that one long scene

1:05:30.960 --> 1:05:35.200
<v Speaker 1>with him and Jack Nicholson is so scary when he's

1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:40.240
<v Speaker 1>sitting on his lap, horrifying. Yeah, and that that kid actor,

1:05:40.360 --> 1:05:44.680
<v Speaker 1>he I think he retired. He is now a biology

1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:48.800
<v Speaker 1>professor in Kentucky. Yeah, I had the good sense to

1:05:48.880 --> 1:05:53.360
<v Speaker 1>get out of this professor Lloyd to you. Um so

1:05:53.480 --> 1:05:55.040
<v Speaker 1>good for him, but he does. He gives a great

1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:59.080
<v Speaker 1>performance in this movie. And like that scene especially of

1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:04.280
<v Speaker 1>just the way that an addict parent talks to their children,

1:06:04.440 --> 1:06:06.680
<v Speaker 1>and you can tell, I mean, Jack is kind of

1:06:06.720 --> 1:06:09.320
<v Speaker 1>already pretty far gone by the time that scenes happens,

1:06:09.320 --> 1:06:11.880
<v Speaker 1>because he's just staring at himself in the mirror when

1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Danny gets there. It's a metaphor, but just the way

1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:19.280
<v Speaker 1>that he tries to reassure Danny that nothing's going to

1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:21.960
<v Speaker 1>happen to him, and you can tell that Danny wants

1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:27.400
<v Speaker 1>to believe that, but also he knows that it's not heartbreaking, right, yeah,

1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.400
<v Speaker 1>really heartbreaking, you know, because of three years ago. And

1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:34.040
<v Speaker 1>so that scene especially, like I watched it twice this

1:06:34.120 --> 1:06:36.840
<v Speaker 1>time because it was just like, oh, like when when

1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.000
<v Speaker 1>you're when you're not thinking of it, it's just like, oh,

1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:44.120
<v Speaker 1>haunted Hotel movie it's like heartbreaking for that kid and

1:06:44.680 --> 1:06:46.600
<v Speaker 1>so crushing and you can feel it inside of you.

1:06:46.680 --> 1:06:49.960
<v Speaker 1>It's really crazy. I mean I can I'm just like okay, yeah,

1:06:50.200 --> 1:06:54.360
<v Speaker 1>that's my own ship, but damn heartbreaking, Like O can

1:06:54.440 --> 1:07:01.080
<v Speaker 1>we get it over dad? That scene it's away before

1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:05.120
<v Speaker 1>we see like Danny getting up off his lap and leaving.

1:07:05.200 --> 1:07:08.720
<v Speaker 1>So I my theories that that's when Jack Jack chokes chokes.

1:07:08.960 --> 1:07:12.400
<v Speaker 1>There's no doubt. Yeah, yeah, there's an absolutely no. That's

1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the thing is like, yeah, there's no ghost. A ghost

1:07:14.800 --> 1:07:18.800
<v Speaker 1>did not choke Danny Um. Which is why I am,

1:07:19.640 --> 1:07:23.400
<v Speaker 1>while understanding and empathizing with her, you know, role in

1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:27.720
<v Speaker 1>this very abusive relationship, I'm frustrated when you know that

1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:31.880
<v Speaker 1>she would even think like, oh, there's some lady here

1:07:31.920 --> 1:07:34.520
<v Speaker 1>who choked him, when my husband, with a track record

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:39.680
<v Speaker 1>of hurting my son is just here like oh, and

1:07:39.840 --> 1:07:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I understand the dynamic of self preservation. But it's like right,

1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:47.760
<v Speaker 1>it's really hard to watch. But I mean, I guess

1:07:47.800 --> 1:07:49.280
<v Speaker 1>that just means that they're doing a good job. But

1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:53.160
<v Speaker 1>it was hard. That's also why the scene where she

1:07:53.320 --> 1:07:59.440
<v Speaker 1>sees the furry giving a blowjobs me because it's like, well,

1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:02.800
<v Speaker 1>that kind of like pokes a hole in the metaphors

1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:05.640
<v Speaker 1>that I feel like the you know, movie and narrative

1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:09.520
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to see ghosts in the book. Yeah, I

1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:15.800
<v Speaker 1>was just not that's like I I want because I thought,

1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I also don't think it's as like extreme like like

1:08:19.360 --> 1:08:20.880
<v Speaker 1>like every like. I don't I feel like the whole

1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:24.519
<v Speaker 1>haunting actual haunting part isn't as extreme extreme in the book. Yeah,

1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I mean, I I think it is

1:08:26.720 --> 1:08:30.160
<v Speaker 1>like an interesting choice that she also starts to see things.

1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:34.599
<v Speaker 1>Here's here's my Galaxy brain read of it is. It's

1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:37.040
<v Speaker 1>just I feel like if we're going with the ghosts

1:08:37.120 --> 1:08:40.840
<v Speaker 1>or a metaphor for being a family unit with an

1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:43.960
<v Speaker 1>addict who refuses to get help, right, that it like

1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:48.680
<v Speaker 1>is contagious in the way it affects people. Because I

1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:52.760
<v Speaker 1>don't even think Jack isn't even the first person, right,

1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Danny is the first person to see ghost because he

1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:59.000
<v Speaker 1>is the most he is the most physically effect he's

1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:03.240
<v Speaker 1>shining um, but he's like the most he's been the

1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:08.320
<v Speaker 1>most directly traumatized as a child, yeah, and has like

1:09:08.360 --> 1:09:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the fewest coping mechanisms, and so like him, seeing a

1:09:11.880 --> 1:09:16.559
<v Speaker 1>ghost first makes sense plus children do see ghost because

1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:19.840
<v Speaker 1>they are more susceptible to it. In general, children are

1:09:19.880 --> 1:09:22.680
<v Speaker 1>just more susceptible. You can read it. There's studies on

1:09:22.760 --> 1:09:25.960
<v Speaker 1>it anyway, So yeah, I mean, obviously it is our

1:09:26.000 --> 1:09:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Halloween episode. I think we should just say right off

1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:32.640
<v Speaker 1>the bat, uh ghost exist. There's studies on it. And

1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:34.240
<v Speaker 1>I just I was talking about it in the car

1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:38.960
<v Speaker 1>last night and and we were like, clearly, but for

1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:41.920
<v Speaker 1>the sake of this story, uh yeah. Like I think

1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:44.679
<v Speaker 1>the ghost as a metaphor for how addiction affects everyone

1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:46.719
<v Speaker 1>in a unit. And I also think it makes sense

1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:49.439
<v Speaker 1>that when dy sees it last, because she is the

1:09:49.520 --> 1:09:52.080
<v Speaker 1>one who is trying the hardest not to see it,

1:09:53.360 --> 1:09:55.439
<v Speaker 1>but then she sees it at the end so brilliant,

1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and I don't mean in a sarcastic way. It was

1:09:57.320 --> 1:10:02.519
<v Speaker 1>so smart. But but why she sees a furry like

1:10:02.800 --> 1:10:07.280
<v Speaker 1>that's maybe her thing. We don't know why, because it's

1:10:07.320 --> 1:10:10.120
<v Speaker 1>like we are seeing like all the ghosts are. I

1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:12.120
<v Speaker 1>don't think anyone's thinking about it this hard, but like

1:10:12.240 --> 1:10:15.040
<v Speaker 1>all the ghosts are do seem to appear specific to

1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:18.000
<v Speaker 1>the person they're appearing to. Danny sees other kids because

1:10:18.040 --> 1:10:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that's what he'll be most receptive to. Jack sees hot

1:10:21.479 --> 1:10:27.080
<v Speaker 1>lady because he's a horny idiot. Wendy sees Hurry giving

1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a blow job because that's what that's given background information

1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:33.880
<v Speaker 1>about her. Maybe we are maybe we do learn something

1:10:33.920 --> 1:10:37.960
<v Speaker 1>about her other than she's a little freaking she's a man,

1:10:38.080 --> 1:10:45.240
<v Speaker 1>that she's a fair chance wife. Mother was on her

1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:48.880
<v Speaker 1>gravestone closet for there's a difference. Well. The other thing too,

1:10:49.000 --> 1:10:54.120
<v Speaker 1>is that, like women, children are often not believed. So

1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:58.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that like, you know, Danny's seeing things and

1:10:58.320 --> 1:11:03.000
<v Speaker 1>for him to be like I strangled and like everyone's

1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of making excuses and trying to justify, Okay, well

1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:08.519
<v Speaker 1>who did this to him? And what's happening, and there's

1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:11.759
<v Speaker 1>like so much ambiguity around it, I think is telling

1:11:11.880 --> 1:11:14.560
<v Speaker 1>of the fact that, like children have a tendency to

1:11:14.680 --> 1:11:18.160
<v Speaker 1>not be believed. Another thing I wanted to talk about

1:11:18.400 --> 1:11:23.760
<v Speaker 1>briefly is there is a tendency in I would say,

1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:28.040
<v Speaker 1>especially horror movies, and it's often like the final girl

1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>that ends up. This being the case for or just

1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:34.760
<v Speaker 1>mostly any female character, but when she has to put

1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:39.479
<v Speaker 1>up a fight or defend herself, this potentially will sound

1:11:39.960 --> 1:11:41.960
<v Speaker 1>victim blaming, So I just want to acknowledge that right

1:11:42.000 --> 1:11:44.800
<v Speaker 1>off the bat, But there's also a ten working things

1:11:44.840 --> 1:11:47.839
<v Speaker 1>out in real time. Here's what I'll say when, especially

1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:51.120
<v Speaker 1>a female character in a movie has an opportunity to

1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:55.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of get back at her attacker, maybe like somehow

1:11:55.920 --> 1:12:02.000
<v Speaker 1>they got knocked unconscious, or they're um or they're spucky

1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:09.160
<v Speaker 1>leaving in or they're like incapacitated in some way like

1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:12.360
<v Speaker 1>this just happened in that movie Ready or Not, which

1:12:12.439 --> 1:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>I did watch and did thoroughly enjoy. But there's a

1:12:15.200 --> 1:12:18.360
<v Speaker 1>few different moments where the female protagonist of that movie

1:12:18.760 --> 1:12:22.599
<v Speaker 1>has an opportunity to like kill someone who was trying

1:12:22.640 --> 1:12:24.519
<v Speaker 1>to kill her by either like running them over with

1:12:24.600 --> 1:12:27.479
<v Speaker 1>a car or like shooting them with a gun, or

1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:30.439
<v Speaker 1>like doing something with some weapon that she has at

1:12:30.520 --> 1:12:33.759
<v Speaker 1>her disposal, and she doesn't do that, and then instead

1:12:34.280 --> 1:12:36.439
<v Speaker 1>like she's just like I'm just gonna get away, and

1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:38.599
<v Speaker 1>because she didn't kill that person, that person gets back

1:12:38.680 --> 1:12:40.439
<v Speaker 1>up and then tries to kill her somewhere, and that

1:12:40.680 --> 1:12:43.519
<v Speaker 1>the ending of the second Strangers is what got to do?

1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:44.960
<v Speaker 1>They do it all the time, but the ending of

1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:47.400
<v Speaker 1>that one, I was like, Jesus fucking Christ okay, but

1:12:47.439 --> 1:12:50.160
<v Speaker 1>I would argue for Wendy and this one where she

1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:53.160
<v Speaker 1>from what we know and we don't know enough about her,

1:12:53.240 --> 1:12:57.880
<v Speaker 1>which is like a central Kubrick Kane whatever, everyone's fault,

1:12:57.960 --> 1:13:07.200
<v Speaker 1>everyone's fault. I'm not saying Kuber's king. Uh that from

1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:11.160
<v Speaker 1>what we know, she has been kind of societally and

1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:15.240
<v Speaker 1>personally forced to define herself by this man for let's

1:13:15.320 --> 1:13:18.080
<v Speaker 1>just say her entire adult life, right, And so I

1:13:18.800 --> 1:13:22.840
<v Speaker 1>understand her reticence to murder him. Also we know that

1:13:23.000 --> 1:13:25.479
<v Speaker 1>no one's going to believe her. So my point was

1:13:25.479 --> 1:13:28.439
<v Speaker 1>going to be that I like that she first she

1:13:28.640 --> 1:13:31.680
<v Speaker 1>bonks him over the head, knocking him unconscious, and then

1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:35.559
<v Speaker 1>I think in other movies, thank you for that a fact.

1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:39.479
<v Speaker 1>I think in other movies she just would have like

1:13:39.760 --> 1:13:41.840
<v Speaker 1>left him there on the landing of the stairs and

1:13:41.920 --> 1:13:43.639
<v Speaker 1>then like just try to do something. But the fact

1:13:43.680 --> 1:13:46.560
<v Speaker 1>that she then drags him and locks him in a

1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:48.640
<v Speaker 1>room that he can't get out of, even though he

1:13:48.760 --> 1:13:52.400
<v Speaker 1>somehow did, um Like, I really like that. And then

1:13:52.520 --> 1:13:55.760
<v Speaker 1>when he is chopping down the door later, the fact

1:13:55.800 --> 1:14:00.800
<v Speaker 1>that she like stabs him in the hand, I was like, go, Wendy, yes,

1:14:00.920 --> 1:14:03.519
<v Speaker 1>like he's trying to kill you, try to kill him back.

1:14:03.920 --> 1:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>It seems like strategic to where like it's clear she

1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:09.720
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to kill him, and it's clear that, like

1:14:09.840 --> 1:14:12.320
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of abusive relationships, she has some love

1:14:12.400 --> 1:14:15.160
<v Speaker 1>for him, right of course, even though she knows he's

1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:17.880
<v Speaker 1>a monster. And so it's I kind of like that,

1:14:18.000 --> 1:14:20.439
<v Speaker 1>It's like she doesn't want to kill him, She's doing

1:14:20.520 --> 1:14:23.400
<v Speaker 1>what she needs to do to protect herself and her son,

1:14:23.479 --> 1:14:25.720
<v Speaker 1>and she's she's like, if that means locking you in

1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:28.040
<v Speaker 1>here and then having someone come back and arrest you,

1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, And so yeah, can we talk about the

1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:39.240
<v Speaker 1>use of the naked ladies? Yes? So, I mean I

1:14:39.320 --> 1:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>think that this is like one of the more obvious, glaring,

1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:47.920
<v Speaker 1>like come on things where I mean, I guess, given

1:14:48.000 --> 1:14:51.240
<v Speaker 1>what we know about Jack, it's not super surprising that

1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>he's a lecherous creep, right because he's clearly not interested

1:14:55.400 --> 1:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>in self improvement um or people's boundaries. So I'm not

1:15:01.439 --> 1:15:03.800
<v Speaker 1>even really commenting on that as much as just the

1:15:03.920 --> 1:15:07.759
<v Speaker 1>way that the movie seems to feel about Like Stanley

1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Cooper has a pretty well documented history of like women

1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:15.320
<v Speaker 1>as props, so does all movies. Um, but this is

1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>like pretty pretty aggressively, you know, where we see the

1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>young woman versus the old woman, and it's very much like, oh,

1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:30.439
<v Speaker 1>the young woman is hot, silent, horny, right, we don't

1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:33.120
<v Speaker 1>need to know anything about her. And then the second

1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:37.759
<v Speaker 1>you see like an old woman, uh, it's complete body horror.

1:15:39.400 --> 1:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Is rotting. Besides that, I get where you're coming from

1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:46.560
<v Speaker 1>is rotting, but I feel like that there, that's like

1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:51.960
<v Speaker 1>co of like how people view older women. Older women

1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:57.160
<v Speaker 1>are rarely shown on screen as hot or at all, right,

1:15:57.360 --> 1:15:59.840
<v Speaker 1>first of all, at all, and if they are there

1:16:00.160 --> 1:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>certainly not like viable romantic people. This is a this

1:16:04.880 --> 1:16:09.080
<v Speaker 1>is a plug for Grayson Frankie Gloria I love. Oh yeah,

1:16:09.240 --> 1:16:12.599
<v Speaker 1>this is a Gloria. But yeah, I mean watch Grayson

1:16:12.640 --> 1:16:19.759
<v Speaker 1>Frankie to see sexy, hot older women getting fun honestly.

1:16:22.479 --> 1:16:24.640
<v Speaker 1>But but yeah, I mean I just like, I mean,

1:16:24.720 --> 1:16:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that's I think one of the more obvious critiques of

1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:30.439
<v Speaker 1>this movie. But like, come on, right, yeah, I think

1:16:30.479 --> 1:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>that's all I had. Did anyone have any other thoughts

1:16:34.439 --> 1:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>about the film? I had, Does it pass the Bechtel test?

1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Not even a little of it? I was considering him,

1:16:43.000 --> 1:16:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and then you guys spoke, Yeah, no, absolutely not. The

1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:52.680
<v Speaker 1>only scene where two female characters talk at all is

1:16:52.760 --> 1:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>when the two Grady twins asked Danny if they want

1:16:57.000 --> 1:17:00.799
<v Speaker 1>to play with him? Right, Oh, I wanted to mention

1:17:01.200 --> 1:17:04.200
<v Speaker 1>that that is and he like, it wasn't like a

1:17:04.400 --> 1:17:08.280
<v Speaker 1>steel it was a borrow. But um, Kubrick took that

1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:11.559
<v Speaker 1>image from a Diane Arbus photo, who's like a famous

1:17:12.040 --> 1:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>feminist photo, very pro lgbt Q plus photographer, and he

1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>saw like a picture she took of twins and like

1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:27.280
<v Speaker 1>that direct image isn't interesting, so Arbus representation, And it

1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>was and it wasn't even and it wasn't like I'll

1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:33.680
<v Speaker 1>give Kuber credit of like he attributed that term. So

1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:36.959
<v Speaker 1>that's fun. If only we had known about their interests,

1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:40.720
<v Speaker 1>their names, what are their names? They like to play,

1:17:40.800 --> 1:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>and they like to wear the same dress, so we

1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:44.280
<v Speaker 1>already know more about them than we do about Wendy.

1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:52.599
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so, um, yes, does that pass the Bechdel tests?

1:17:52.880 --> 1:17:56.160
<v Speaker 1>So let's rate it on our nipple scale zero to

1:17:56.240 --> 1:17:59.840
<v Speaker 1>five nipples based on its representation of women. Um, this

1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>is really hard because on one hand, I don't know

1:18:03.800 --> 1:18:09.120
<v Speaker 1>how harsh you guys judge it. Pretty hard, I want

1:18:09.160 --> 1:18:11.519
<v Speaker 1>to say like one, I want to go to Nips,

1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:13.200
<v Speaker 1>but then I feel like you guys are like one

1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:16.599
<v Speaker 1>nip was one of my two nips is as your

1:18:16.640 --> 1:18:19.120
<v Speaker 1>guys is one nip in my opinion in my hands

1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:22.120
<v Speaker 1>honestly going to go to two and a half. I

1:18:22.200 --> 1:18:24.559
<v Speaker 1>think I think I'm gonna go to on this one,

1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:29.960
<v Speaker 1>and that with the kind of I think probably keeping

1:18:29.960 --> 1:18:32.200
<v Speaker 1>in mind that we're giving the movie maybe a little

1:18:32.200 --> 1:18:35.400
<v Speaker 1>bit too much credit based on the read that we

1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:40.440
<v Speaker 1>have talked about today to take based on the revisionist

1:18:40.520 --> 1:18:42.960
<v Speaker 1>history we have put upon it. But no, I mean

1:18:43.000 --> 1:18:45.240
<v Speaker 1>I think that, like, I think that a lot of

1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:49.479
<v Speaker 1>the criticism leveraged against Wendy's character, even like five or

1:18:49.479 --> 1:18:53.400
<v Speaker 1>six years ago, wasn't taking into consideration the dynamics of

1:18:53.439 --> 1:18:57.200
<v Speaker 1>the relationship and that she's clearly a victim in this

1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:00.920
<v Speaker 1>relationship and it's super clear that she needs to, you know,

1:19:01.120 --> 1:19:03.800
<v Speaker 1>survive without help. She's not believed. I think that there's

1:19:03.880 --> 1:19:07.280
<v Speaker 1>there's like more than some critics of her character are

1:19:07.360 --> 1:19:10.640
<v Speaker 1>giving it credit for. And if you think about it,

1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:15.639
<v Speaker 1>it's most of her decisions for me, makes sense inside

1:19:15.680 --> 1:19:22.600
<v Speaker 1>of the fucking nightmare that she's It's Nerristontal um So,

1:19:22.800 --> 1:19:26.719
<v Speaker 1>I think I think that especially for and and also

1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.920
<v Speaker 1>this is the second Stephen King's story we've covered on

1:19:30.040 --> 1:19:33.000
<v Speaker 1>this we covered Carry all right, um And I think

1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:37.120
<v Speaker 1>that he deals with this female character far better than

1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:41.240
<v Speaker 1>he treats Carry. Um and so in terms of I

1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:45.400
<v Speaker 1>mean even growth of of I'm always pleasantly surprised when

1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:49.360
<v Speaker 1>a man manages to write a female character thoughtfully at all. Uh.

1:19:49.600 --> 1:19:52.880
<v Speaker 1>And I don't agree with a lot of Kuber's adaptations.

1:19:52.880 --> 1:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I agree with none of the ways that he treated

1:19:56.080 --> 1:20:01.000
<v Speaker 1>his performers. But on the strength of Wendy being like

1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:05.360
<v Speaker 1>a very tragic but ultimately victorious example of a woman

1:20:05.400 --> 1:20:08.360
<v Speaker 1>in an abusive relationship, it gets two nipples from me,

1:20:08.880 --> 1:20:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and I'm giving them to Mr hall Ran very good

1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:17.360
<v Speaker 1>twist who lives in my version and the canonical version.

1:20:18.200 --> 1:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Um There's there's a line in the movie that Mr

1:20:21.400 --> 1:20:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Grady says telling Jack after he's been locked in the pantry.

1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:31.479
<v Speaker 1>Mr Grady is like that wife of yours is stronger

1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:36.880
<v Speaker 1>than we thought. She seems resourceful. So he even even

1:20:37.040 --> 1:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the acknowledges her strength and her power. Um. So, Yes,

1:20:43.320 --> 1:20:47.320
<v Speaker 1>he's an icon. The lens through which I chose to

1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:50.559
<v Speaker 1>watch the movie this time in terms of it being

1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:55.720
<v Speaker 1>a story about Wendy, you know, struggling through this abusive

1:20:55.880 --> 1:21:01.280
<v Speaker 1>relationship and trying to save herself and her son. That

1:21:01.520 --> 1:21:04.560
<v Speaker 1>read lends itself I think, yeah, like a two and

1:21:04.640 --> 1:21:07.720
<v Speaker 1>a half nipple rating, because even so we still don't

1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:13.759
<v Speaker 1>really know anything about her character, and it's a long movie.

1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:17.120
<v Speaker 1>It's the version I watch is two hours long, although

1:21:17.160 --> 1:21:20.559
<v Speaker 1>according to use, the two and a half hour version

1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:29.479
<v Speaker 1>have to say so there's a there's time to get

1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:33.240
<v Speaker 1>to know her a little bit better anything outside of

1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:36.000
<v Speaker 1>her role as a wife and a mother, and as

1:21:36.040 --> 1:21:39.599
<v Speaker 1>well as the way this movie treats other cultures, races,

1:21:39.720 --> 1:21:45.439
<v Speaker 1>etcetera universally. But the fact that we do see her,

1:21:45.760 --> 1:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in the context of this story, we do

1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>see her being the one who's like taking care of

1:21:52.000 --> 1:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the upkeep of the hotel. She like knows how to

1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.320
<v Speaker 1>use a radio. I don't know how to use a radio.

1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:00.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how to check a boiler to right.

1:22:00.600 --> 1:22:02.360
<v Speaker 1>But I'm saying like she she knows how to do

1:22:02.520 --> 1:22:07.400
<v Speaker 1>this stuff, all the emotional labor of like handling her

1:22:07.520 --> 1:22:11.000
<v Speaker 1>husband's responsibilities and then also being pretty much the sole

1:22:11.200 --> 1:22:13.759
<v Speaker 1>caregiver of their son and all the all this different

1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:16.559
<v Speaker 1>stuff and the fact that she does like fight back

1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and she is triumphant in the end. I do enjoy Uh.

1:22:22.640 --> 1:22:25.320
<v Speaker 1>But I also think the movie is far more interested

1:22:25.400 --> 1:22:29.479
<v Speaker 1>in showing us Jack's mental unraveling than it is showing

1:22:29.640 --> 1:22:33.679
<v Speaker 1>us anything about Wendy's character, because there are long stretches

1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:36.479
<v Speaker 1>of time where we don't see Wendy at all, and

1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:39.599
<v Speaker 1>the movie is just overall far more focused on Jack.

1:22:39.960 --> 1:22:43.240
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, we can we can do better on a

1:22:43.320 --> 1:22:46.200
<v Speaker 1>on a twenty nine version of a story like this.

1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:48.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm interested, Well, I'm interested also in seeing how the

1:22:49.720 --> 1:22:53.479
<v Speaker 1>uh doctor, Sleep Doctor starring who does it? Who's the

1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:57.800
<v Speaker 1>actor in that movie? Jamie You and McGregor, You and McGregor, you,

1:22:58.160 --> 1:23:02.439
<v Speaker 1>you and you, I said, you and you kill me.

1:23:04.600 --> 1:23:09.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm interested in seeing it and how it deals with trauma,

1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:13.400
<v Speaker 1>like how it deals with trauma in an adult from childhood. Yes, indeed,

1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:15.680
<v Speaker 1>so two and a half nipples I'm going to give

1:23:16.240 --> 1:23:20.839
<v Speaker 1>to to Wendy and then my half nipple is split

1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:28.439
<v Speaker 1>between the Grady twins, Brave and gross Corey. To nipples

1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:31.080
<v Speaker 1>are you giving them to? Given one to Wendy and

1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:39.320
<v Speaker 1>one to Danny. Danny we're having to deal with. Corey.

1:23:39.360 --> 1:23:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for being here, thank you for

1:23:41.800 --> 1:23:44.519
<v Speaker 1>having someone like me on this. But you're a bit

1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>You've been so hard on yourself. Okay, I have sciatica

1:23:47.960 --> 1:23:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and deal with that today. Okay for my psietica. No,

1:23:52.280 --> 1:23:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm in a good win and I'm really happy to

1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:55.880
<v Speaker 1>be here. I'm just saying, we love you. It's so

1:23:56.040 --> 1:23:59.760
<v Speaker 1>dark in this room, scary, Corey, what would you like

1:23:59.800 --> 1:24:01.680
<v Speaker 1>to un Where can people find you online? You can

1:24:01.760 --> 1:24:04.320
<v Speaker 1>find me online and on t whether at Corey T.

1:24:04.520 --> 1:24:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Johnson because obviously Corey Johnson has taken and the T

1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:09.719
<v Speaker 1>stands for Taylor. I guess that's all I have. Okay.

1:24:11.040 --> 1:24:14.000
<v Speaker 1>You can follow us at bechtel Cast on all the

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<v Speaker 1>dot com, slash packetel Cast. You can go to our

1:24:29.200 --> 1:24:33.160
<v Speaker 1>merch store t public dot com slash the backtel Cast,

1:24:33.400 --> 1:24:38.679
<v Speaker 1>and hey, it's not too late to get your feminist

1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:42.240
<v Speaker 1>icon Beetle Juice T shirt. You can get your wet

1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:46.519
<v Speaker 1>scabs and dry scabs T shirts as well. Uh to

1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:51.000
<v Speaker 1>sport all year round and then get out there and

1:24:51.479 --> 1:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>don't do all work and no play. Give yourself some play.

1:24:55.280 --> 1:25:00.040
<v Speaker 1>Don't be a doll person. Not okay, Bye you