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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Hi. Just a few quick announcements at the

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Speaker 1: top of the show for some upcoming live shows, and

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Speaker 1: here they come. First, we are doing a live show

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Speaker 1: in l A on November nine at The Ruby and

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Speaker 1: we are covering Home Alone with guests tomorrow Yegiah, She

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Speaker 1: is the Best, awesome, And this is our last show

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Speaker 1: at that location because the Ruby is moving to a

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Speaker 1: different spot. So you don't want to miss this show.

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Speaker 1: It's very special and it's the last time we're doing

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Speaker 1: a live show at that specific spot. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't come, we'll set an eleborate booby trip and you

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Speaker 1: be upset. Also, because today's episode is Colorado adjacent, we

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Speaker 1: want to say we are coming to Colorado specifically Denver.

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Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? So we're gonna be co headlining

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Speaker 1: a few stand up shows on November six when at

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Speaker 1: nine pm, when at ten thirty, they're both at Bar Max.

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Speaker 1: The nine pm is very close to selling out. To

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Speaker 1: be sure to come to one of those. Also on

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Speaker 1: November seventeen, the next day, we are doing a live

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Speaker 1: becktel cast show at the Buntport Theater in Denver. We

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Speaker 1: are covering the Santa Claus. Oh my god, I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited with special guest Grace Thomas. The Elf is hot,

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Speaker 1: so if you live in the Denver area, please come out.

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Speaker 1: We would love, love, love, love love to see you

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Speaker 1: and Grace is incredible. So yeah. Tickets and details for

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Speaker 1: all of those shows Denver and l A are on

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Speaker 1: becktel cast dot com and click on the live tab there.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode on the beck dol Cast. The questions

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Speaker 1: asked if movies have women in them, are all their

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Speaker 1: discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism

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Speaker 1: the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the beck

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Speaker 1: del Cast. Hello and welcome to the becktel Cast. My

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Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Dronte who It's love. That's my very

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Speaker 1: clever way of people pay me to do this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus. Oh sorry, and this is

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Speaker 1: the Bectel Cast podcast about women in movies. That's right. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we used the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point,

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Speaker 1: which is a media metric created by cartoonists out also

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Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wall List Test. Scary. It is very

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Speaker 1: scary because what it is. It's a media metric that

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Speaker 1: requires that two female identifying characters with names talk to

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Speaker 1: each other about something other than go who is a man? Oh? Man?

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Speaker 1: This is electric? Feel my blood at the surface of

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Speaker 1: my skin. Can we demo the test? Yeah, let's do it, Hey, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: All work and no play makes Caitlin a dull woman.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit you with the bat. It's violent, but

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Speaker 1: it passes unlike well, actually, can we say that unlike today?

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Speaker 1: But if someone was just like, oh, they spoiled it

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, that's my favorite criticism of our podcast.

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Speaker 1: We're like, oh, they said it at the beginning, So

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Speaker 1: why would I keep fucking listening. I'm like, I guess

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Speaker 1: you're just not the demo? Wait have people had that criticism?

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Speaker 1: I read all the iTunes reviews. Please please leave a

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Speaker 1: nice one. Please do please leave a nice this Halloween season.

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Speaker 1: Please pay be kind, be kind to each other this Halloween.

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Speaker 1: No tricking or the only treating just for us, Just

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Speaker 1: treats us. Please. But yeah, we're talking about the shining

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Speaker 1: today and we have an incredible guest. We certainly do.

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Speaker 1: She is a comedian, she's hilarious. We love her. She's

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Speaker 1: about to move to New York City. Ever heard it?

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Speaker 1: So we had to get her on before she moves

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Speaker 1: New York. Let's here. He's welcome her with open arms.

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Speaker 1: It's Corey Johnson, welcome here. I'm here, red Rum, red Rum,

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Speaker 1: It's red round season. It's no, it's not. Don't don't

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Speaker 1: read round each other. Okay, so we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: Shining Stanley Krubrick. Yes, Corey, what is your history relationship

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Speaker 1: with the movie? Have you read the book? Read the

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Speaker 1: book so I could understand the movie in general and

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Speaker 1: just compare them. I like the book better but than Also,

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Speaker 1: the cinematography of the movie is really amazing, vibrant, captivating,

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Speaker 1: and it's just you said, nineteen eighty. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how he still looks Jack nicholsonce it looks so old?

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Speaker 1: Am I talking about the wrong movie? No, it's like

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Speaker 1: I was. I was thinking the same thing. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, how old is he in this movie? And

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Speaker 1: he's like in his forty looks like but he looks

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Speaker 1: like hell. Look but maybe that just means he's doing

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Speaker 1: a good job job. Yeah. I don't think that was

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Speaker 1: to a compliment. She looks like hell. But you know, Jacky,

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Speaker 1: Jack's going to hear this and he's going to be livid.

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Speaker 1: So Jack has and I mean to tell you this

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Speaker 1: that Jack contributes to our Patreon and it really gives

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Speaker 1: that five dollars, so we really need it. Times are tough. O.

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Speaker 1: My bad, didn't know. I didn't get the Sorry Jack,

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Speaker 1: Sorry Jack, Sorry Jack. I'm sorry Jack. There's actually this

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a tangent at the beginning. Cancel me,

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Speaker 1: but friend of the pod, Mary Hulihan just wrote a

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Speaker 1: very funny show that people should see if they're in

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Speaker 1: the area. She's New York based, but it's called Me

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Speaker 1: and Jack and it's this fictional account of how she

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Speaker 1: dated Jack Nicholson. But Jack Nicholson is too busy playing

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Speaker 1: is PS four to pay attention. It's really funny, all right, Yeah, honestly,

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Speaker 1: that sounds good. It's very Jamie asked, that's something up

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Speaker 1: Jamie's alley, and that's really good. The grin on Jamie's

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Speaker 1: face right now, I cannot explain. I'm still laughing filing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you read the book in the movie a couple

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Speaker 1: of times. I like the movie. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: else to say. Shelley Duval's teeth um will be licked

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Speaker 1: by me one day. She's alive, right, very cool. I

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Speaker 1: tweeted about it so sad to say it. That's the rule.

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Speaker 1: What's your history with that kid? I have not read

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Speaker 1: the book, which makes me nervous to talk about this movie,

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Speaker 1: in particular because I feel like I don't know Stephen King.

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Speaker 1: Heads out there are like Stephen King. And then when

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Speaker 1: we do a movie adapted from a book and you

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Speaker 1: know every What I'm trying to say is, listeners, remember

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Speaker 1: that we're not a book podcast. We're not an adaptation podcast.

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Speaker 1: I still am suffering from whiplash from Lord of the

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Speaker 1: Rings over a year ago, where I'm just like, listen,

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Speaker 1: it's a free podcast, take it or leave it, Okay, Relax.

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Speaker 1: So I have not read the book. I have seen

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Speaker 1: the movie a fair number of times I would say

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Speaker 1: probably like six or seven times throughout my life. And

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Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I did not. I

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Speaker 1: did not see that coming. I did not mean to

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Speaker 1: say it like that, embarrassed, but I do enjoy to

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Speaker 1: the movie. You have not pronounced anything correctly. The day

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Speaker 1: Pin Milan, I was getting so nervous because we have

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Speaker 1: to say you and McGregor seriber. I'm sure I pulled

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Speaker 1: out that last one. I want, Well, clearly, I'm up. No,

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Speaker 1: it's adorable, but you're a fan of the movie, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: I saw this movie on my first day of college.

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Speaker 1: I had like a cool college roommate who was like,

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Speaker 1: there's a little movie theater I know about in the

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Speaker 1: corner of Boston. And I was like, how, like we

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Speaker 1: just out here, But she just had that like cool

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Speaker 1: person instinct, and she found a screening of The Shining

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Speaker 1: and I went. And I went to college with no

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Speaker 1: knowledge of like cinema per se. I've seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of movies, but I hadn't seen much cinema. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I really liked it, and it was like it became

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Speaker 1: one of my faiths for a little while. I've like

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Speaker 1: seen the documentaries and then Room two three seven. I

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Speaker 1: had to stop because it made me so furious. It

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Speaker 1: was yeah, and then and then uh and then In

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Speaker 1: recent years, I have like I learned more about Stanley Kubrick.

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Speaker 1: Don't ask me, I already made fun of you and

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Speaker 1: I don't even notice I, you know, dragged me. But

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Speaker 1: I've learned more about him. I've watched documentaries about him specifically,

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Speaker 1: I've watched him of his older stuff and now I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, it's a beautiful movie, but I don't love it. Sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's dive into the recap. Shallby Yes, you can interject

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Speaker 1: in the recap and them's the rules absolutely all right.

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Speaker 1: So Jack Torrence played by Jack Nicholson, he gets a

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Speaker 1: job looking after this huge hotel, the Overlook Hotel, which

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Speaker 1: is nestled into the rocky mountains, and he needs to

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Speaker 1: look after it over the winter when they close because

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Speaker 1: of the harsh weather. Right because and this is in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: r Colorado. Yeah, I had no idea. Who was Thank god,

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Speaker 1: it's the rare Stephen King that doesn't take place in Maine, right, interesting,

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Speaker 1: and it's very secluded, it's very isolated. The opening sequence,

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Speaker 1: they're driving this might not be funny in anyone but me.

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Speaker 1: They're driving through the mountains to get there or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And the YouTube video that they used to have back

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Speaker 1: in the day where the cars driving and then they

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Speaker 1: scare you. You know, I'm talking about literally infamous. It

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Speaker 1: looks just like that, and I was like, do I

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Speaker 1: turn it off? I was really stoned, but it was like,

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Speaker 1: do I turn it off? I didn't realize until i'd

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Speaker 1: seen the shining like three times that that's the clip

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Speaker 1: that you're it's like, watch the car. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: it is, or it's like a very similar car, and

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Speaker 1: then the devil comes out and it's like, so someone

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Speaker 1: like edited in like a scary thing Halloween energy. Now

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Speaker 1: that you're saying it, it might be an as on commercial.

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Speaker 1: Really think it's like a Red Knee sun Ultimate, But

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Speaker 1: it's fine. I think we can consider this relevant discussion. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think so. So. The manager of the Overlook Hotel

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Speaker 1: tells Jack about this winter caretaker from a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, just so you know, he did acts

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Speaker 1: murder his wife and two young daughters. But Jack is like, so,

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Speaker 1: don't worry that won't happen to me, because I love

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Speaker 1: being alone, he says. He's like, no, I got this.

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Speaker 1: I like being this alone. Yeah. Yeah, because he's going

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Speaker 1: to be there working on a writing project. That's what

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Speaker 1: tempts him about taking this job where he's going to

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Speaker 1: be in isolation, but he will be there with his family,

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Speaker 1: um his wife and his wife Wendy and Yell and

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Speaker 1: their young son Danny also named Danny. Lloyd plays Danny,

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Speaker 1: so really one to ones with the character names. Although

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Speaker 1: Mr Hallerand's name is not Scatman Cruthers, which is it,

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Speaker 1: Which is a shame. It should Karacter should just be

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Speaker 1: called scat Man Cruthers. Yeah, why make it easier for

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Speaker 1: Jack and Danny and the rest of the cast has

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Speaker 1: to remember a different name. It's almost like they have

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Speaker 1: to act upsetting. So the thing about Danny is that

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Speaker 1: he's got this kind of like imaginary friend question mark Tony.

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe Tony Shalhub. Oh, that'd be fun that

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Speaker 1: Tony going to a little therapy, says inside of Danny's mouth,

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Speaker 1: it's Tony Bennett. And that's canonically the Sopranos takes place

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Speaker 1: inside of Danny Tarnth's mouth. That's what happens at the end.

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Speaker 1: They pull out, like at the end of Ben and

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Speaker 1: Black when they just like when into the world is

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Speaker 1: the galaxy is just like a marble. It's the same

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Speaker 1: they do. Don't stop believing, and then it cuts to black.

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Speaker 1: But if you keep watching, it zooms out's mouth. So

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Speaker 1: he's got this person Tony who lives in his finger

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Speaker 1: or his mouth, but he talks to his finger. But

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Speaker 1: it all also might be this like kind of clairvoyant possession,

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Speaker 1: which we'll learn about a little later on. So the

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Speaker 1: family arrives at the hotel and they're shown around. Mr

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Speaker 1: Halleran A. K. Scammon Cruther's shows him some stuff and

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Speaker 1: then creepy ship starts happening right away, like Danny sees

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Speaker 1: the ghost of these two little girls. Danny also has

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Speaker 1: this psyche connection with Mr Hallowran and he is like, hey, Danny,

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Speaker 1: we have this connection. I also had it with my grandmother.

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Speaker 1: She called it The Shining and we're like, hey, that's

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Speaker 1: the name of the movie. You're like, and that's why

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Speaker 1: they call it that. And when you're get excited, then

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Speaker 1: you're like, I'm in here, I'm I'm in and then

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Speaker 1: it kind of never comes back, like the word name

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Speaker 1: checking the way early. And I do like that actually,

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Speaker 1: because when it's towards the end of the movie, like

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Speaker 1: they try to make money, you're going to say, and

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Speaker 1: that's one million ways to die? Does that happen in

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Speaker 1: that movie? No? No? If that was the last line

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Speaker 1: of the movie. Loose Day Today. Okay, So Danny and

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Speaker 1: Mr Hallyrand have this whole conversation about Tony and how

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Speaker 1: he shows Danny things and how the overlook hotel is

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Speaker 1: messed up and bad things happened there, and then Danny

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Speaker 1: asks about Room two thirty seven and Mr Halloran's like,

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Speaker 1: nothing happened there, everything's fine, and don't go in that room.

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Speaker 1: So a month passes and the family has settled in.

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Speaker 1: Jack is trying to figure out what to write about relatable,

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Speaker 1: and then he's doing a packet. He's literally he's applying

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Speaker 1: to court him and he's like, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: can't think of any web segments that it's hard. Monologue

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Speaker 1: jokes are hard. His niche humor you. So then Jack

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Speaker 1: also seems a bit stir crazy because he's like flinging

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Speaker 1: a tennis ball against the walls so hard, so so hard,

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Speaker 1: so loud, and like, I don't have it was stressing

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Speaker 1: me out. That was like every single time they armed

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Speaker 1: power that man has anyway, just in observation, it comes

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Speaker 1: back with that. Yeah, they're sitting it out up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there's this enormous hedge maze that Wendy and

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Speaker 1: Danny walk through for fun, you know, and we're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're setting it up, planting payoff baby. Then Danny rides

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Speaker 1: around on his big wheel through the hotel and then

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Speaker 1: he rides past Room two three seven, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: hikes scary, but then he rides away and it's a coward.

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Speaker 1: He's a coward. Is at this point when Jack starts

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Speaker 1: being especially emotionally abusive and his mental state is starting

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Speaker 1: to unravel. Really the second people leave, he drops the

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Speaker 1: act and becomes an abuser. Yes, we'll talk all about it.

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Speaker 1: It starts to snow outside. The phone lines go down,

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Speaker 1: so Wendy radios the I think it's like the Parks

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Speaker 1: department nearby or something. Yeah, some of some like vague,

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Speaker 1: unhelpful and identity and they're like, yeah, the phone lines

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Speaker 1: are going to be down to spring. So then Danny

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Speaker 1: sees the ghost twins again and they're like, can't play

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Speaker 1: with us, Danny, forever and ever and ever, and then

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Speaker 1: all that poor little Katy looks so scary. He's so

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Speaker 1: scary because he also has sees a vision of them

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Speaker 1: having been as murdered and the halls are all bloody

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Speaker 1: and he freaks out, understandably so, and Jack is getting

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Speaker 1: even creepier and more unhinged. He tells Wendy about a

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Speaker 1: Nightmary had where he killed her and Danny and chopped

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Speaker 1: them up into little bits. Then Wendy notices some bruises

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Speaker 1: on Danny's neck and she thinks that Jack hurt their son,

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Speaker 1: and Jack is like, I don't know, right, And then

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Speaker 1: at this point we already know that he's like hit

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Speaker 1: Danny in the past, because he goes to the Gold

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Speaker 1: Room to blow off some steam, because it's like this

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Speaker 1: lounge e bar area, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: there's a bartender there, and there's also a whole party

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Speaker 1: going on that's a little later, but there, and Jack

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Speaker 1: tells this bartender, Lloyd, about this one time when he

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Speaker 1: lost his temper and accidentally hurt Danny a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson is great in that scene. It is so scary. Yes,

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Speaker 1: his performance overall is quite stunning. I'll say, wow, what

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Speaker 1: can I say? He's our biggest fan. He loves us.

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Speaker 1: It's true. He gives us five dollars every month, sixty annually.

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Speaker 1: So Wendy comes running in frantically to the room and

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Speaker 1: apparently there's this lady in one of the rooms who

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Speaker 1: tried to strangle Danny. Jack's like, what room is it?

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Speaker 1: And then he goes into it and guess what it's

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Speaker 1: room to thirty seven and there is a young naked woman,

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Speaker 1: so he naturally starts to make out with her. Because

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Speaker 1: you're not like confused or why is she here? How

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Speaker 1: did she get here? You go, oh, she's naked, and

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Speaker 1: every young naked woman wants to make out with Jack Nicholson.

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Speaker 1: But then as they're making out, she turns into like

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Speaker 1: a rotting zombie lady, as also happened as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean well, yeah, older women have to be associated

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Speaker 1: with body horror, just like Justasha. So Jack freaks out,

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Speaker 1: but when he goes back to tell Wendy about it,

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Speaker 1: he's like, I didn't see anything, not a goddamn thing,

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Speaker 1: and she believes and she well, she's like, how did

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Speaker 1: this happen? What about Danny's bruises? And Jack's like I

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Speaker 1: think He's like, I think Danny did it to himself.

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Speaker 1: And Wendy is freaking out and she's growing increasingly concerned

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Speaker 1: about the safety of her and her son and she

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Speaker 1: wants to get Danny out of there. And Jack does

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Speaker 1: not like this idea, and he yells at her and

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Speaker 1: he storms out, and then this is when Jack goes

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Speaker 1: back to the banquet hall and it's not full of

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Speaker 1: people who are like ghosts question Mark from the nineties, right,

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Speaker 1: and one of them is Mr Grady. He was the

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Speaker 1: caretaker who acts murdered his family. And Grady's like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not me, Mr Torrence, You're the caretaker. By the way,

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Speaker 1: your son is being meddlesome and like you should put

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Speaker 1: him and your wife in their place. Meanwhile, Danny is

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Speaker 1: trying to telepathically communicate with Scatman brothers to get help,

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Speaker 1: and Mr Hallerand is like trying to reach the hotel

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Speaker 1: by phone but he can't get through. Meanwhile, Jack dismantles

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Speaker 1: the radio and then Mr Hallyerrand flies across the country

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Speaker 1: to try to get to the um, but the snowstorm

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Speaker 1: keeps like dumping down snow everywhere. Mr Hollern is the

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Speaker 1: realist for almost no read like the shining things like

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Speaker 1: well that kid, he knows the sordid history he was in,

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Speaker 1: like Miami, yeah he was in Florida, goes a long way, yeah,

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Speaker 1: spends all that money on a plane ticket. Just a

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Speaker 1: good man, is uh So. Then um, Wendy finds the

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Speaker 1: manuscript that Jack has been working on all this time,

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Speaker 1: and it's famously pages and pages of all work and

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Speaker 1: no play makes Jack a doll boy. It's a cordon packet.

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Speaker 1: That's my cord back the corn and packet I turned in.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I'm staffed. Congratulations, I got it. He

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Speaker 1: I got wow. Congratulations. Um. So, then Jack approaches her

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Speaker 1: as she's like looking at his incredible comedy writing, and

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Speaker 1: at this point he is completely unhinged and he's screaming

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Speaker 1: at her. She's terrified of him. She's swinging a baseball bat,

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Speaker 1: she's defending herself. Good. She manages to hit him on

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Speaker 1: the head, and then she drags his unconscious body to

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Speaker 1: the kitchen and then locks him up in like this

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Speaker 1: pantry storage room. I liked how obvious it was that

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Speaker 1: they used to stunt Jack because they cut all the

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00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: way away like Jack. Jack Nicholson was like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even gonna start to fall, and then cut the stunt

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Speaker 1: Jack who like eats ship and dowstairs. And then you're like,

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Speaker 1: and there's Jack again, who gently walked down the stairs

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Speaker 1: and laid laid himself down. So then she goes outside

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Speaker 1: to the like snow cat snowmobile vehicle to try to escape,

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Speaker 1: but Jack has cut the wires and the tubes and everything.

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Speaker 1: So she's trapped there and Danny is yelling about red Rum,

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Speaker 1: which spoiler murder backwards. Okay, you didn't have to ruin

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Speaker 1: that for jesus. Sorry, sorry, it's like telling you who's

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Speaker 1: the masked singer. You simply don't do it. Forgive me,

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00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: forgive me. Jack. Somehow we don't totally understand how gets

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Speaker 1: out of the storage room. Maybe Mr Grady the Ghost

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00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: lets him out, um, and then he starts chopping down

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Speaker 1: the door of Wendy's room with an ax and then

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Speaker 1: he's like, here's Johnny. Wendy grabs Danny and they try

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Speaker 1: to escape out the window. But then this is when

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00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: Mr Hollowran shows up and Jack goes after him murders

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00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: him with an axe, and then Ac is chasing after Danny,

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Speaker 1: who runs into the maze. Wendy's back in the hotel

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Speaker 1: looking for Danny, and she sees a furry giving a

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00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: blow job to someone, which I totally forgot about. Always

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00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: forget about that scene. What. I'm not sure there's any

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Speaker 1: I mean, does that happen in the book. No, So,

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Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick's just like L O L random humor absolutely

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Speaker 1: does not happen I'm not sure. I this is one

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Speaker 1: of those movies where I'm like a million people are

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Speaker 1: going to be our. I mentioned like the furry obviously meant,

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Speaker 1: but like I couldn't make heads or tails of it,

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00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: nor could I. Okay, okay, tails, funny, Wow, that's going

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Speaker 1: in the cordon packet. In the packet it goes. So.

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00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: Then Jack chases after Danny in the maze and he's

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Speaker 1: following Danny's tracks in the snow dan a. At one

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00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: point he backtracks a little bit and then he hides

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00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: his tracks, and then Jack gets lost. Danny manages to

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00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: get back out of the maze, He and Wendy escape

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00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: in snow vehicle that Scott man Cruthers arrived in, and

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00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: then we catched the following morning, Jack has frozen to death,

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00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: and then we see a photo of him from nine

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00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: that he is in leaving a lot open to interpretations,

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00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: firing a million annoying YouTube videos, the whole genre of

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00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: speculative bullshit that I don't sorry he would you agree

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00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: when I say that Jack Torrence isn't your average person? Yeah?

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00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Okay, Well I know something about

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00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: an average person to tell me. Also, for for everyone,

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00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: who was in Jack Torrance out there. The average person

374
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: spent one third of their life sleeping and not awaken

375
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: killing people like Jack Torrance. So you should be comfortable

376
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: while you're sleeping all that time, right right, Well that's

377
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: where Sper comes in. Did you see that coming? Actors

378
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: really could have solved it if he had had Casper,

379
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: I think, well, I mean in too bad. This episode

380
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: isn't about Casper, the friendly little boy girl friendly with

381
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: all his creepy uncles. Right, but this episode is about,

382
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: of course the Shining the movie whose sequel is Doctor

383
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: Sleep because see what I did there? Because Casper is

384
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Speaker 1: a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help

385
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Speaker 1: you get your best rest one night at a time.

386
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Speaker 1: Are you listening, Jack torrens okaying he dies? Casper products

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Speaker 1: are cleverly designed to mimic human curves, which provide supportive

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Speaker 1: comfort for all kinds of bodies. The original Casper mattress

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Speaker 1: combined multiple supportive memory films for quality sleep service with

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Speaker 1: the right amount of sink and bounce. Imagine all the

391
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Speaker 1: what do you think the ghosts would use them? You

392
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: know what? I bet they're in every hotel room at

393
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: they overlook hotel. I think things would have ended so

394
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Speaker 1: differently if only if only Casper Mattress have been around

395
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Speaker 1: she was. You know, what they also have is a

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Speaker 1: breathable design that helps regulate body temperature throughout the night,

397
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Speaker 1: so you know, the ghosts and people alike won't be

398
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Speaker 1: overheating as they sleep. I worry about goes over here

399
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Speaker 1: like a car. Casper also, Caitlyn has affordable prices because

400
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Speaker 1: and they have the free shipping and returns in the

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Speaker 1: US and Canada. Now to bring us back to the shining,

404
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: I would say, Jack Torrance really is a middleman and

405
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: he really bifted up. That's right, That's something to think about.

406
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: I think that's very positive. Incredible, incredible connection. Thank you.

407
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Speaker 1: Guess what, you can be sure of your purchase with

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Speaker 1: Casper's one night risk free sleep on it trial, and

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Speaker 1: Terms and conditions apply. That's one dollars towards select mattresses

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Speaker 1: at Casper dot com, slash TBC four the Bechtel Cast,

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Speaker 1: and use TBC at checkout Sweet Dream, which is something

414
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: that we never hear Jack Torrens say, which brings us

415
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: back to what we were just discussing. Wow, tasteful. So

416
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot to discuss with this damn movie. There is, Yes,

417
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: why don't we start with adaptation stuff because I think

418
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: that there is like a little more to talk about

419
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: than normal when it comes to adaptation for this specific

420
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: when it comes to the book. But I'll try my best.

421
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't say that I'm so please, You're welcome to

422
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: dunk on us. The one thing that I do remember

423
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: that's different as sorry if it's cutting into late instead

424
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: of him being hit in the head and then being

425
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: dragged away, he had hit his own head climbing over

426
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: a bar. You went to go make himself a drink,

427
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 1: and he hit his own head and fell, and then

428
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: she found him and dragged So this makes the movie

429
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: makes her more active then yeah, okay, okay, that's interesting.

430
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: There's also so I haven't read the book by spoiled

431
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: it for myself. Some things that stuck out to me

432
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: where first of all, Stephen King hated the creative deviations

433
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: made from the book to the movie, which we'll get into,

434
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: but a few things that stuck out to me, and

435
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's other stuff, but I guess. There's

436
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: a point in the book where Wendy considers leaving Jack

437
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: and Danny says, no, I want to stay with him.

438
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: And that's why Wendy doesn't leave sooner, or doesn't attempt

439
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: to leave, even after she knows something is very wrong.

440
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: Mr Hallerin is not killed off in the book. He

441
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: helped them escape. And then there's an epilogue that takes

442
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: place the next summer um and Halleran is working in

443
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Maine Stephen King, uh, and he's comforting Danny over the

444
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: loss of his dad, and Wendy is like recuperating from

445
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: the injuries that Jack gave her and like there it's

446
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: like this, Yeah, so they like welcome, you know, a

447
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: more stable influence onto their lives through Mr Halleran, and

448
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: they moved to Maine. Because it's a Stephen King book.

449
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: I don't usually like go happy endings, but I did

450
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: really like that ending because it is just adorable and good.

451
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm just really enjoyed it. Um, and it does seem

452
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: like and Corey, I mean, let me know if if

453
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: you agree. This seemed to be just the way that

454
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: the book plays out and what Stephen King has to

455
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: say about it more explicitly about his alcoholism and addiction

456
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: more so than like some weird spirit whatever. Yeah, which

457
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: I I appreciate. I agree with you and appreciate more.

458
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: And the sense that no addiction stuff is like really important.

459
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: It just shows a lot more. It's more realistic to me.

460
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: I'm only really like like realistic things. I mean, besides

461
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: the whole ghost Children and whatever. I like the whole

462
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: point where it's like, oh, it's not like a weird

463
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: like the home doing. It's like, oh, this this guy

464
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: just clearly an alcoholic and abuse of alcoholic and that's okay, No,

465
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: it's not okay, let's think. You know, it just makes

466
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: more sense to me. It just like grounds it a

467
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: little or I mean, I I don't know, it's weird

468
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: because like reading what Stephen King has to say about it,

469
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: um kind of turned me on the movie a little bit,

470
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: just to know that he is so against the way

471
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: specifically Wendy's part is written, so he gave an interview too.

472
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: I believe it's the Guardian, and here's what he has

473
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: to say. He says, quote, the books Wendy does have

474
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: a lot more depth. She's fighting against the revelation which

475
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: she's already made before the book starts, that her husband

476
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: is basically a marginally talented writer who will never really

477
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: amount to anything because he's filled with age, demons, self

478
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: loathing and booze. Whendy feels like her wagon has been hitched,

479
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: and the book is partly about the way she manages

480
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: to unhitch herself and her son from an abusive alcoholic patriarch.

481
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: So the hotel is like a metaphor or whatever. He

482
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: said that about the Zone book. Uh and and he

483
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: and then he later in the same interview describes He says,

484
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: oh sorry this interviews with the BBC. I got English

485
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: publications next up. Canceled me. So he says that the

486
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: film in general to him, seemed too cold. He said, quote,

487
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm not a cold guy. Defensive Does he mean cold

488
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: like literally? Because it's snowy swish in the code we're

489
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: in Uh see you later, Fellas Cordon, They're okay, it's

490
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: if I don't know I'm I would happily you know what,

491
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: you know what? Okay, quote I'm not a cold guy.

492
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: I think one of the things people relate to in

493
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: my book is this warmth. There's a reaching out and

494
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: saying to the reader, I want you to be a

495
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: part of this. With Kubricks the shining, I felt that

496
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: it was very cold, very We're looking at these people,

497
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: but they're like ant and an ant hill, aren't they

498
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: doing interesting things? Shelley daval Is Wendy is really one

499
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: of the most misogynist characters ever put on film. She's

500
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: basically just there to scream and be stupid. And that's

501
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: not the woman I wrote about, unquote dunk, so that

502
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: is not the wrong woman he wrote about, Which is

503
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: interest because I like don't even completely like I don't

504
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: even completely agree that Kubrick's Wendy is stupid or really smart. Yeah,

505
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: she's like really active anything. She's just like she's defensive

506
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: and kind of just like Stockholm syndre me about her husband.

507
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: But like, I feel like a lot of women is

508
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: that misogystic of me this well, just like being inside

509
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: of an abusive relations and being an addict and having

510
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: a kid on to Yeah, that's just how it happens.

511
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: And also they are literally trapped, So there's but that

512
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: that's just for context. That is the main ways that

513
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: it deviates from the source material. And Stephen King still

514
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: does not ride for this movie even five hundred years later. Also,

515
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: apparently there's no maze in the book and instead it's

516
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: like these topiaries that come to life or something like that.

517
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, Visually, this movie is incredible,

518
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: Like it's so good, very well shot. This is one

519
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: of the first movies that used to study cam and

520
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: it is awesome. I love the shots, you know, the

521
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: the big wheel riding around, even the panning in on

522
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: the on the maze and the beginning beautiful. So other

523
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: stuff that is relevant to the discussion is uh, some

524
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: behind the scenes stuff. So the behind this scenes for

525
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: this movie is like deep lore. There's that whole documentary

526
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: room to thirty seven about it. The main takeaway is,

527
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean, Stanley Kubrick did not have an incredible reputation

528
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: among female actors that he worked with, And the most

529
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: egregious example is how Shelley Duval felt about her experience

530
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: working with him. So Stanley Kubrick's daughter, he was like,

531
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't let anyone behind the scenes or like document stuff

532
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, which red flag. He was like, I

533
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: don't want people to remember how I treat other people.

534
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: So cool, but he let his daughter, who I think

535
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: was like maybe twenty or twenty one at the time,

536
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: document some of the behind the scenes, and the full

537
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: thing is available on YouTube. It's like a half hour long,

538
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: but you can see where Shelley Duval said a number

539
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: of times that he was verbally abusive to her to allegedly,

540
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, get this manic, terrified performance out of her,

541
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: but he was like yelling at her all the time,

542
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: is crediting her, saying she wasn't doing a good job,

543
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: just he made her do the take with the here's

544
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: Johnny and then Shelley has the acts one times the

545
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: most documented takes of any like of anywhere recorded um

546
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: and there's like firsthand footage from Stanley Kubrick's daughter of

547
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: him yelling at her on set her cry like her

548
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: crying on set and no one's doing anything to help.

549
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: And so she had a really bad experience with him

550
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: and was vocal about it, even I mean at the

551
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: time and then for years after, and it wasn't until

552
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: maybe the past ten years the people have taken that

553
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: literal firsthand footage seriously of mistreating female actors, because you

554
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: also see him work with Jack Nicholson and he is

555
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: not treated that way, and so, I mean, it definitely

556
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: speaks to the culture on Stanley Kubrick set. It also,

557
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure has a lot to do with the era

558
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: of I mean, she was making her out to be

559
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: like hysterical and like, well, if you're doing a better job,

560
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be treating you this way. Um, So that

561
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: is I think an important piece of context specifically to

562
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: Shelley Duval. And the reviews for this movie at the

563
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: time don't mention her performance literally at all, really know,

564
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: it's so good. So it's just it's really frustrating read

565
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: that his mistreatment of her gave her such horrible stress

566
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: that she became physically ill for months and her hair

567
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: was falling out and stuff like that. And I I've

568
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: also heard stories and take this with a grain of

569
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: salt because I didn't do enough reading up on this,

570
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: so this is sort of just like anecdotal stuff I've

571
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: heard over the years, But that he treated Skeettman Cruthers

572
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: the same way, having him do dozens and dozens and

573
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: dozens of takes of the same shot and interesting he

574
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: would be like, do you want me to do differently?

575
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: Like please, just like tell me, like how can I

576
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: make this the take that you want? And Stanley Krubricks

577
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: just like do it again. It's just it's like, incredibly

578
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: I I hadn't read that. That's like incredibly frustrating and

579
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: still the problem that it's like there's an anecdote from

580
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: fucking the Joker movie of just like ship that white

581
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 1: male leads can get away with on set that their

582
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: co stars just can't. Were like it came up at

583
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: the time of recording the other day where you know what,

584
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: Keen Phoenix is allowed to go totally method. So he's

585
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: just being a fucking dick to everyone and making everyone's

586
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: who's making you know, point five percent of what he's making,

587
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: he's just making their lives way more difficult, except for

588
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, who he was very well behaved with

589
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: and turned his character on and off demonstrating almost like

590
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: it's not necessary and he just enjoys being horrible to people.

591
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: So I mean, it's it's something that's still happens. But

592
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: this is like a I think, a particularly egregious example

593
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: of like abuse of power in a director's role. So

594
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: that is bad and also not for nothing. Stanley Cooper

595
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: has a uh not an incredible record of female characters

596
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: in his films either uh he uh put it in

597
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: the cart and packet. He doesn't seem to prioritize female

598
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: characters literally at all. Um, if they're one woman in

599
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: full metal jacket, that might be the full Metal Jacket.

600
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's the movie that famously has that very

601
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: like racist portrayal of like Vietnamese sex workers. It's like,

602
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: that's like those are the only women too. Literally A

603
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: million times, I think those are the only women. And

604
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: as far as I know, on his in his filmography

605
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: or whatever his canonical filmography, the only movie he ever

606
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: makes with a female lead is Low and I can

607
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: speak to That's one of the I've I've seen. I've

608
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: seen a bunch of his movies, but I think that

609
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: The Shining and Lolita are the two that I've seen

610
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 1: the most because that is I mean, it's obviously super

611
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: controversial work to begin with, but has has been adapted

612
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: horrendously both times. It was attempted, and yeah, Kubrick fucking

613
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: botches it and the only time, and then you know,

614
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: that's in nineteen sixty two, and he's like, I know

615
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: what I'll do, never make a movie abouttle woman again.

616
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: So that and then and then the last little piece

617
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: of the context corner that I'll kick in here is

618
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: that this movie or the screenplay is co written with

619
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: a female author, which, you know, give him a little

620
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: give him a little point at the end. She was

621
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: well known, not of the list at this time, but

622
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: she had never written a screenplay before. This is Diane Johnson.

623
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: Diane Johnson say her name, but yeah, so Diane Johnson.

624
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: I guess Kubrick her work was brought to his attention.

625
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: He liked it, He thought she would be a good

626
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: collaborator on it, and she wrote an essay about it

627
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: last year on a film journal called Scraps from the Loft,

628
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: and by all accounts, it seemed like she had a

629
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: lovely time working with him. So you know, it's it's

630
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,479
Speaker 1: all He didn't sclaim at her and make her cry

631
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: all the time and make her hair fall out. Nope,

632
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: as far as we know, some things are unken. But

633
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: as of but as of eighteen. I mean she describes

634
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: him being like he was kind of notoriously a weird guy,

635
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: but not like he's sure that he's so dead as

636
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: long as he's like fully done. So anyways, that's the

637
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: it's it's a d context corner, but there it is.

638
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: No thank you very much. That's all very helpful. So

639
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: let's get into the narrative the characters. I would here's

640
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: here's here we go. I would argue that there could

641
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: be a feminist read of this movie in the same

642
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: way that there can be a feminist read of Rosemary's Baby,

643
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: for example, a movie that we did talk about where

644
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: even though the female character, because there is really only

645
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: one unless you count the twins acts murdered or naked Lady,

646
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: the one female character in the movie who has any

647
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: narrative significance is not empowered. But I feel like the

648
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: movie it shows the horrors of being a victim of abuse,

649
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: and in this movie, unlike Mary's Baby, she is triumphant

650
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: in the end and she gets away from her abuser.

651
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: And I think that most of the horror in this

652
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: movie doesn't come from any of the like supernatural blood

653
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: gushing out of the elevator, like, none of that stuff

654
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: really affected me. The stuff that affects me is like

655
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: the abuse that she endors. So I chose to to

656
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: watch this movie on my second rewatch through the lens

657
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: of just her being in an abusive relationship, and I

658
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: found that, like all the supernatural ghosts and psychic stuff

659
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: and all that stuff ends up just sort of being

660
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: metaphors for the horrors that take place when someone is

661
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship. I think that that is the intention. Yes, good,

662
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: I did a good job. Um, yeah, I I agree

663
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: with you too. To the next I mean, it's it's tricky.

664
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: It's I think that it ends up kind of coloring

665
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: my rate of it a little bit when we know

666
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: that they were given more with the source material and

667
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: chose not to use. It feels telling in some ways.

668
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: But she does, I mean, she certainly has a lot

669
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: of agency. Um. I mean, especially as a story goes on,

670
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: it's weird. I mean it it does sort of speak

671
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: to a lot of like the hallmarks of being in

672
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: an abusive relationship where she's saying one thing, but it's

673
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: very clear that she's scared. Uh. There's like a lot

674
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: of examples of her appeasing him to protect herself and

675
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: to protect Danny. Yeah, I mean it's like it's it's horrifying.

676
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: And I feel like there have been some because there

677
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: was after Stephen King like shot upon the movie, there

678
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: was sort of this avalanche of clickbait or thoughtful film

679
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: commentary depending on how you read it, that was agreeing

680
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: with him. But I feel like the in a lot

681
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: of that where they're like, well, she she's made out

682
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: to be, you know, dumb, and she why doesn't she

683
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: even I'm like, well, that's the victim blameing. Yeah, So,

684
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think her care and especially

685
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: Shelley Deval does an amazing job because she you can

686
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: tell she's lying for the most part, and you can

687
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: tell that she's like physically afraid of him, and we

688
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: have reason to be physically afraid of him, and we

689
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: know that the whole movie, which is just like, yeah, well,

690
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: I did kind of like a beat by beat sort

691
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: of breakdown all the story beats that relate to the

692
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: abuse of relationships. So I just kind of want to

693
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: like go through them and like just sort of analyze

694
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: it a bit. Uh So, the first thing you kind

695
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: of realize is that Wendy seems to be doing all

696
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: of the parenting of Danny, So Jack is very hands off.

697
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: He's focused on his job, both in his hotel duties,

698
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: which he doesn't ever end up actually doing, and Wendy

699
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: does all of it because she's the one who's like

700
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: checking the phone lines, checking the boilers, checking voltage right,

701
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: and because he's focusing on his cordon packet is hard

702
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: so it's not easy to write, so he's not really

703
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: paying attention to to Danny at all. She's doing all

704
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: of the emotional labor of parenting. Was this the dynamic

705
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: of many American families throughout most of history? Yes, but

706
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: that was like the first thing I noticed. Um toward

707
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: the beginning, Wendy brings him breakfast, which she has made

708
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: him eggs, just the way he likes, sunny side up.

709
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: And then meanwhile he has slept into like eleven thirty.

710
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: She's presumably been up for hours, like taking care of

711
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: their son. He expresses no regret at all. He's like, oh,

712
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: weird that I slept so late, right, And then yeah, no,

713
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: also no gratitude that she made him and brought him breakfast,

714
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: and then she says, oh, it's a nice day. Would

715
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: you take me for a walk after you finished breakfast,

716
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: and he responds, I need to get some writing done first,

717
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: so they don't hang out. She instead goes on a

718
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: walk through the Maze with Danny. A little while later,

719
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: Jack is typing at his typewriter and then when he

720
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: comes in and she's like, Hey, how's it going. Have

721
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: you gotten a lot written today? And then he basically

722
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: starts be writing, her saying like, you're interrupting me, You're

723
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: breaking my concentration. Please get the funk out. He's ripping

724
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: up paper, he's throwing them. He's like having a tantrum.

725
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: And this is like, I think maybe the first time

726
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: that you see hints that he's like a scary, violent, unhinged,

727
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: abusive person. I always used to read his behavior as

728
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: like being the result of being in isolation and the

729
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: like creepy hotel ghosts stuff like getting to him and

730
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: haunting him. But this time I read it as he's

731
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: always been emotionally abusive. It has nothing to do with

732
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: the hotel. He's just a horrible person, and the creepy

733
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: stuff in the hotel is just like metaphors for him

734
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: being a horrible abuser. And it was like at the

735
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: fact that they set that up at the beginning and

736
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: say that this has happened so many times. It sets

737
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: up like the abuse cycle as a metaphor, and somebody

738
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: who doesn't know how to look into things like that,

739
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it looks really pretty. The movie is gorgeous,

740
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: And then you guys say that, I'm like, oh, yeah,

741
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: people look movies mean things. It's I mean, but then

742
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't. But it is like they set up

743
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: the idea at the beginning of the movie that if

744
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: an already angry, rage filled man is left in isolation,

745
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: that they will become violent. Yeah. Then we see that

746
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: scene where he's like yelling in his sleep and then

747
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: he wakes up from his nightmare and he's like, oh

748
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 1: my god, I had this awful dream where I killed

749
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: you and Danny and chopped you up into bits, and

750
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: like he's expressing remorse, which I took as like being

751
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: symbolic of like when abusers say to their partners like,

752
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, I just got angry. It'll never happen again.

753
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: Please don't leave me. I love you. So then shortly

754
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: after that we have the scene where he reveals to

755
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,439
Speaker 1: the bartender that he's accidentally one time he quote accidentally

756
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: lost his temper and hurt says. He says he had

757
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: a momentary loss of muscular coordination, which is just like

758
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: the a very well written piece of fuckory right exactly.

759
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: And then this is also when he starts to be

760
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 1: vocal about how he blames Wendy for ruining his life,

761
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: for like his mind, turning him into this loser kind

762
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: of person. He says something like, oh, that bitch will

763
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: not let me forget. What happened is long three years ago,

764
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: like it's just like three years ago that oh yeah.

765
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: Then Wendy comes running in and says, you know, there's

766
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: a crazy woman in one of the rooms. She tried

767
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: to strangle Danny, and then his Jack's first response is

768
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: are you out of your fucking mind? So he doesn't

769
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: believe her. She keeps telling him about it, and then

770
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: he goes to investigate, and this is when he makes

771
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: out with a young lady and then corpse lady um.

772
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: And then when he comes back, he lies to Wendy

773
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: about what happened and then accuses Danny of giving himself

774
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: his own bruises, even though I think it's one of

775
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,959
Speaker 1: the more confusing parts of the movie. To me, that's

776
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: like where and I don't know exactly if this deviates

777
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: from the book, but that's the one point where it

778
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: didn't totally track for me Wendy's thought process, because I

779
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: just don't it's she already knows she doesn't trust her husband,

780
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to her son. I don't know

781
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: like that, that's the one point in the narrative where

782
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't understand why you would take him

783
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: at his word for that. Well, it's like I feel like,

784
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: if anything, it's like everyone in that situation is in

785
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: denial about It's almost the stuff like he's even being like,

786
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: oh no, he did into himself. Because in a way,

787
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: it's also a metaphor of like the abuse part, because

788
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of abusers were like, oh no,

789
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: they just did this because they did this, and you're like, yeah, no,

790
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: they did it to themselves. I also read it as

791
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: like Wendy making excuses just for like, oh, well, survival instinct,

792
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: exactly the way that a lot of abuse victims have

793
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: to do for self preservation. Um. So that's how I

794
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: read that. Uh, And then right after that, whenever Wendy's like,

795
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: we've got to get Danny out of here. And then

796
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: Jack freaks the funk out and he's like, oh, that's

797
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: so typical of you to create a problem like this,

798
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: where you know, I finally have the chance to accomplish

799
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: something and you've funked up my life and I let

800
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: you funk it up, but I'm not going to do

801
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: that anymore. So now he's like gaslighting her, blaming her

802
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: for all of his problems. The scene that was most

803
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: jarring and felt like most that metaphor really hit for me,

804
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: is she so right after that, she hits him on

805
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: the head and he falls. She drags him, and then

806
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: after he's locked in the kitchen like freeze or whatever,

807
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: and he's trying to convince her to let him out,

808
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: and that gentle manipulation where you keep where you keep

809
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: cutting back to him fully like laughing at like the

810
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: fact that she's starting to believe that he could be

811
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And then she like stands her ground

812
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: and she's like, sorry, but I'm leaving and I'm taking

813
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: our son, and like you're not gonna be able to

814
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: hurt us anymore. And then you know, like the reveal

815
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: to her, I guess that he's really never going to

816
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: change and just so, yeah, what happens there? He tries

817
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: three different tactics. First, he's like just irate and screaming, saying,

818
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 1: get me the funk out of here, like open this door.

819
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: She doesn't comply. The second tactic is, oh, no, you really,

820
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: I think you really hurt me on my head. I

821
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: need a doctor. Trying to like appeal to her more

822
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: nurturing sensibilities also doesn't work. She doesn't fall for it,

823
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 1: and then she's like, i'mgoing I'll bring a doctor back.

824
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: That's what she tells him. Who knows. I imagine that

825
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: she probably would have just gotten the hell out of

826
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: there and never come back. So she's like, I'm leaving,

827
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: I'll bring a doctor back. And then he's like, you're

828
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: not going anywhere. I snipped all those wires for that

829
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: snow vehicle um, which I think both him cutting the

830
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: wires of the snow cat and he dismantles the radio

831
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: earlier on, I think is a metaphor for when abusers

832
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: cut off communication victims. It's loaded and and it is

833
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: like the fact that she is triumphant is kind of

834
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: especially for like this era and I guess we we

835
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: like Stephen King gets the credit for this because that

836
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: was you know, she escapes in the story as well,

837
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: But like that seems like kind of like a uncharacteristically

838
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: like kind of cool, like, oh she got she got out,

839
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: like and he and he you know, quote unquote got

840
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: his um for for treating them that way. Yeah, but yeah,

841
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: they're watching it with that in mind. Is like, I

842
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: understand Stephen King's criticisms, and I think that there is

843
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 1: sometimes something to be said for like if it takes

844
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: you five viewings to get there, you know, I mean

845
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: some people view that as like, oh, it's so deep

846
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: and and you can also view it as like how

847
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: clear should things be in movies? But I guess, you know,

848
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: I don't fall any particular place there. But I didn't

849
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: notice that the first five or six times I watched it,

850
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: I mean same, I was taking it pretty much at

851
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: phase value in terms of like the hotels haunted. Somebody

852
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: who's watching it fifteen times half of the things you

853
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: said I never considered, so I don't even want So

854
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: it's like, how I mean that that's like a more

855
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: existential artiste question will have to ask. And we also

856
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: might be giving because we're doing this like feminist read

857
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: of it, maybe we're giving everything too much credit. Like

858
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm really very like Leary to give Stanley kuber Kuber

859
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: credit too much. I'm but it seems like at least

860
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: a little is out here. But I would also say

861
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: that Diane Johnson was yeah, like she and she has

862
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: a pretty good track record with like, um, she'd written

863
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: a number of like feminist novels prior to this. So

864
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: there's that and and and it's like in the DNA

865
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: of Stephen King's story that she's triumphant and a lot

866
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: of the metaphors were like in the book. So I'm

867
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: gonna just not hand it to Kubrick and handed to

868
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: the other two people. Um, but yeah, I think it

869
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: is like very and the performance like deserves a lot

870
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: of credit too, because it was, like, god, it was incredible.

871
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: I don't I think it's absolutely it was not necessary

872
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: to abuse her to get that performance. She's given a

873
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: number of performances, but um, yeah, Shelley Deval kills it.

874
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: That said, though, there there were moments where I'm like

875
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: the way like she's running with a knife, kind of

876
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: flailing it around, and it kind of it. I don't know.

877
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: It just read to me is like a come on,

878
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: can't can't she be a little I don't like, Well

879
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: that's what I'm it's because well then I sat down

880
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: and thought about I was like, no, like, she has

881
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: been emotionally abused the whole time we've seen him interact

882
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: on screen together. He's being abusive, so like, you know,

883
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's holding that bat so stupidly. But then

884
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: also like if I, you know, if any of us

885
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, victim right, like I would be so

886
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: scared that I couldn't do anything even not scared, I

887
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: can't hold the fucking bat? What are you talking about it?

888
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: It would have been like I mean, and it would

889
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: have been cathartic to see her be like dope with weapons.

890
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: But I feel like that would have been like a

891
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: Merry Sioux move because given what we know about her life,

892
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: the fact that she hasn't really been allowed to have

893
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: ambitions or hobbies that we know of outside of being

894
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: a wife and a mother, it doesn't make sense and

895
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: softball on the weekends, and then that see that if

896
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: they had been like, well maybe if you weren't softballing

897
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: so much, then it wouldn't have been I would have

898
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: been pissed about the bad thing, right. Yeah, so I

899
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: think we've been trained as like movie watchers to see

900
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: these like strong female protagonists who are actually criminally underwritten,

901
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: and like when they suddenly, like against all odds, managed

902
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: to like kick someone's ass even if it doesn't make

903
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: sense for their character, we're like, but we're like, who

904
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: a woman being triumphant? Yeah, we love to see it,

905
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: but in a lot of cases it wouldn't have actually

906
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: happened that way. I was. Let's say something that even

907
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: in the time we've been doing this podcast and like, go,

908
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: I I never I didn't always think of it that way. Yeah. Same,

909
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 1: Growing with age incredible. We've got to take another quick break,

910
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: but we'll come back from more. Yeah, did anything else

911
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: to say about Wendy specifically? So, in addition to being um,

912
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, abused and gaslet by Jack, there is a

913
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: brief moment where she's kind of lied to in Gaslet

914
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: by Mr Hallerran. It's not as nefarious, but it's the

915
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: scene where careful Halleran stan over here. Um he keeps

916
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: calling Danny doc and she's like, how did you know

917
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: we call him? Doc and he's like, oh, I don't know,

918
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: I probably just heard you say it. And Wendy, who

919
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: is smart and resourceful and attentive, is like, well, yeah,

920
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: we do call him that, but I'm pretty sure I

921
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: didn't say that in front of you. And he was

922
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know that. Maybe he did. She

923
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: calls him on it, and then I don't know, I'm

924
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm halleran hive over here. He has. She yes, I

925
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: don't think that's like explicit. Yeah. I didn't have a

926
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: big a problem with it, but it just kind we

927
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: found out right after why because that we found on

928
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: the media, right, because otherwise he's sitting Wendy down being like, well,

929
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I'm psychic. I know it doesn't make

930
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: sense your son's also psychic. Tony is real like his

931
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: options are limited. In that moment, for sure, Yeah, it didn't.

932
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: It didn't really bother me, but I was like, oh, wow,

933
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: every man in this movie is lying to Wendy. Cool. Yes,

934
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: but since we're talking about Mr Halloran, I think that

935
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: it is worth discussing the way this movie treats race

936
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: as well as Native American culture. I don't think that

937
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and again, we are three white ladies sitting

938
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: in a room. Um so any outside perspective is please.

939
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: Um But I mean I didn't think that it was

940
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: handled especially well starting with the whole. I mean, part

941
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: of what is distracting for the metaphor of the cycle

942
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: of abuse and addiction and all that is the throwaway

943
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: mentioned that it's built on a quote unquote Indian burial ground,

944
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: which from what we can tell, has literally not it's

945
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: just too it's just to make it seem like, oh,

946
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: the hotel is haunted, but the haunting has nothing to

947
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: do with Native Americans. There's also the line, um per

948
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: the movie built on an Indian burial ground and the

949
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: builders had to repel a few Indian attacks as they

950
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: were building it. I don't know how common of a

951
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: thing this is in Stephen King books, but I'm pretty

952
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: sure it also is the case for pet cemetery, where

953
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: like that was like another like indigenous burial ground. And

954
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: then when you bury your you know, children in it,

955
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: they'll come back as you know, scary possessed children. Um

956
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: so as scary cats. I haven't seen the movie, which

957
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: goes without saying, perpetuates negative ideas about Indigenous people and

958
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: cultures and just kind of an altogether disregard for what

959
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: that means at all. Like I think that it's like

960
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: I would wager to guess that Stephen King gave very

961
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 1: little consideration and was I mean, and and he sort

962
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: of does us with Mr Halloran as well of just

963
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: attributing magic to non white people and as a plot device. Um,

964
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: and I think that Mr Halloran is treated in much

965
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: the same way, right, Yeah. I think he could very

966
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: easily fall into like the magical negro stereotype trope that

967
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: exists in lots of fiction. It's still a prevalent trope today.

968
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: They're there for everyone who's seen both seasons of Big

969
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: Little Lies. There was a major issue with that trope

970
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: on Big Little Lies two months ago, so it is

971
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: not something that I mean, it's more likely to be

972
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: identified and called out now, but it's still gets signed

973
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: off on by a lot of people. Um. Yeah, I

974
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: think that that definitely is the one thing that is

975
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: at least is like the narrative function works where he

976
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: and Danny need to communicate for the plot to work,

977
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: but it's we know nothing else about him other than

978
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: he's psychic. He knows about the Shining he sort of

979
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: almost seems to exist out of time. Uh. And he

980
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: has a lot of naked posters in his bedroom, right,

981
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: which is a weird joke, like because the movie verily,

982
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: very deliberately frames so that you can see the posters.

983
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: And maybe that's commentary about something I could couldn't but

984
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: we don't know. We don't know the hollerin hive, we

985
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: were okay with it, but you know, it's like, he's whatever.

986
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do think that the movie's

987
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: explicit choice to kill him off is also a very

988
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: trophy horror thing because that doesn't happen in the books,

989
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: and there's such a like well tracked record of I mean,

990
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: like a black person being the first to die in

991
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: a horror movie. And Mr Hallern is the only person

992
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: who is the only innocent person who dies, even though

993
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: he's basically like he and Wendy together are the heroes

994
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: of the story, and they managed to save Danny. And

995
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: then why couldn't Kirk Letting move to Maine like he

996
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: does in the book The halleren Hive has spoken? Was

997
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: he written in the book Corey as black? Do you remember? Okay?

998
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: So at least they didn't I guess whitewash that character,

999
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: but even so killing him off was a mistake. We

1000
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: also should talk about the scene in which Jack and

1001
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: Mr Grady, who is like acting as called like a

1002
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: butlery type of person in the bathroom and the N

1003
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: word gets dropped several times by both of them, and

1004
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Mr Grady is basically saying like, hey, Jack, keep an

1005
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: eye on that family yours because they're being troublesome. And

1006
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: also your son he's got this talent and he's using

1007
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: it to try to bring in an outside party. And

1008
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: then they start talking about Mr Halleran, and you dropped

1009
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: the N word the slurs, which I think is the

1010
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: characters being racist and not the movie being racist, but

1011
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: also that one. I don't think that. I mean, I

1012
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: don't know, I see what you're saying, though, because I

1013
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: don't think that they would have had Wendy say that.

1014
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: Definitely not I don't think, but I don't know's it's

1015
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: hard to hard to know, um, but I think because

1016
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: those characters are framed as they are acts murders, yes,

1017
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 1: so they're like their friend is being horribly racist and

1018
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: horribly misogynist. Because again Mr Grady is like, yeah, my

1019
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: wife was causing problems and so were my daughters. So

1020
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: I killed them because I hate women, and also I

1021
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: hate the women in your family, Jack, so you should

1022
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: probably kill her too. It's harder. Yeah, it's harder. I mean,

1023
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: it's hard no matter what. But in the movie, I

1024
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: feel like it sucks more because than the only black

1025
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: character in the movie has such an abrupt and that

1026
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't intended for them, So I feel like it. Yeah,

1027
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I mean again, it's like Kubrick does

1028
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: not handle race well in this movie. Yeah. And if

1029
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: there's if there's anything we miss, please let us know again.

1030
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: Three White Ladies in the Room, Um, something that I

1031
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 1: wanted to talk a little bit about Danny and how

1032
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: the rein of the this movie that we've been discussing,

1033
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't know like it it. It hit for me

1034
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: like kind of different this time. Thank you. I was

1035
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: trying to like work my way around not saying that,

1036
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: and then I just ended up there. Anyways, put it

1037
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: in the cordon back and it's gold good. But when

1038
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: you're watching it as like a little boy who is

1039
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: dealing with an addicted parent versus a little boy who's

1040
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: dealing with a ghost, that scene, that one long scene

1041
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: with him and Jack Nicholson is so scary when he's

1042
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: sitting on his lap, horrifying. Yeah, and that that kid actor,

1043
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: he I think he retired. He is now a biology

1044
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: professor in Kentucky. Yeah, I had the good sense to

1045
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: get out of this professor Lloyd to you. Um so

1046
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: good for him, but he does. He gives a great

1047
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: performance in this movie. And like that scene especially of

1048
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: just the way that an addict parent talks to their children,

1049
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: and you can tell, I mean, Jack is kind of

1050
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: already pretty far gone by the time that scenes happens,

1051
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: because he's just staring at himself in the mirror when

1052
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: Danny gets there. It's a metaphor, but just the way

1053
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: that he tries to reassure Danny that nothing's going to

1054
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: happen to him, and you can tell that Danny wants

1055
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 1: to believe that, but also he knows that it's not heartbreaking, right, yeah,

1056
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: really heartbreaking, you know, because of three years ago. And

1057
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: so that scene especially, like I watched it twice this

1058
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: time because it was just like, oh, like when when

1059
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: you're when you're not thinking of it, it's just like, oh,

1060
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: haunted Hotel movie it's like heartbreaking for that kid and

1061
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: so crushing and you can feel it inside of you.

1062
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: It's really crazy. I mean I can I'm just like okay, yeah,

1063
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: that's my own ship, but damn heartbreaking, Like O can

1064
01:06:54,440 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: we get it over dad? That scene it's away before

1065
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: we see like Danny getting up off his lap and leaving.

1066
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: So I my theories that that's when Jack Jack chokes chokes.

1067
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: There's no doubt. Yeah, yeah, there's an absolutely no. That's

1068
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: the thing is like, yeah, there's no ghost. A ghost

1069
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: did not choke Danny Um. Which is why I am,

1070
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: while understanding and empathizing with her, you know, role in

1071
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: this very abusive relationship, I'm frustrated when you know that

1072
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: she would even think like, oh, there's some lady here

1073
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: who choked him, when my husband, with a track record

1074
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: of hurting my son is just here like oh, and

1075
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: I understand the dynamic of self preservation. But it's like right,

1076
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: it's really hard to watch. But I mean, I guess

1077
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: that just means that they're doing a good job. But

1078
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: it was hard. That's also why the scene where she

1079
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: sees the furry giving a blowjobs me because it's like, well,

1080
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: that kind of like pokes a hole in the metaphors

1081
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: that I feel like the you know, movie and narrative

1082
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: we're trying to see ghosts in the book. Yeah, I

1083
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: was just not that's like I I want because I thought,

1084
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: I also don't think it's as like extreme like like

1085
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: like every like. I don't I feel like the whole

1086
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: haunting actual haunting part isn't as extreme extreme in the book. Yeah,

1087
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I I think it is

1088
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: like an interesting choice that she also starts to see things.

1089
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: Here's here's my Galaxy brain read of it is. It's

1090
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: just I feel like if we're going with the ghosts

1091
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: or a metaphor for being a family unit with an

1092
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: addict who refuses to get help, right, that it like

1093
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: is contagious in the way it affects people. Because I

1094
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: don't even think Jack isn't even the first person, right,

1095
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: Danny is the first person to see ghost because he

1096
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: is the most he is the most physically effect he's

1097
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: shining um, but he's like the most he's been the

1098
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: most directly traumatized as a child, yeah, and has like

1099
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: the fewest coping mechanisms, and so like him, seeing a

1100
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: ghost first makes sense plus children do see ghost because

1101
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: they are more susceptible to it. In general, children are

1102
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: just more susceptible. You can read it. There's studies on

1103
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: it anyway, So yeah, I mean, obviously it is our

1104
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: Halloween episode. I think we should just say right off

1105
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: the bat, uh ghost exist. There's studies on it. And

1106
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: I just I was talking about it in the car

1107
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: last night and and we were like, clearly, but for

1108
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: the sake of this story, uh yeah. Like I think

1109
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 1: the ghost as a metaphor for how addiction affects everyone

1110
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: in a unit. And I also think it makes sense

1111
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 1: that when dy sees it last, because she is the

1112
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: one who is trying the hardest not to see it,

1113
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 1: but then she sees it at the end so brilliant,

1114
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: and I don't mean in a sarcastic way. It was

1115
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: so smart. But but why she sees a furry like

1116
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: that's maybe her thing. We don't know why, because it's

1117
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: like we are seeing like all the ghosts are. I

1118
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: don't think anyone's thinking about it this hard, but like

1119
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: all the ghosts are do seem to appear specific to

1120
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: the person they're appearing to. Danny sees other kids because

1121
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 1: that's what he'll be most receptive to. Jack sees hot

1122
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: lady because he's a horny idiot. Wendy sees Hurry giving

1123
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: a blow job because that's what that's given background information

1124
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: about her. Maybe we are maybe we do learn something

1125
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 1: about her other than she's a little freaking she's a man,

1126
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: that she's a fair chance wife. Mother was on her

1127
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: gravestone closet for there's a difference. Well. The other thing too,

1128
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: is that, like women, children are often not believed. So

1129
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: the fact that like, you know, Danny's seeing things and

1130
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: for him to be like I strangled and like everyone's

1131
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of making excuses and trying to justify, Okay, well

1132
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: who did this to him? And what's happening, and there's

1133
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 1: like so much ambiguity around it, I think is telling

1134
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,560
Speaker 1: of the fact that, like children have a tendency to

1135
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 1: not be believed. Another thing I wanted to talk about

1136
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: briefly is there is a tendency in I would say,

1137
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: especially horror movies, and it's often like the final girl

1138
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: that ends up. This being the case for or just

1139
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: mostly any female character, but when she has to put

1140
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: up a fight or defend herself, this potentially will sound

1141
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: victim blaming, So I just want to acknowledge that right

1142
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: off the bat, But there's also a ten working things

1143
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,839
Speaker 1: out in real time. Here's what I'll say when, especially

1144
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: a female character in a movie has an opportunity to

1145
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: kind of get back at her attacker, maybe like somehow

1146
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: they got knocked unconscious, or they're um or they're spucky

1147
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: leaving in or they're like incapacitated in some way like

1148
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: this just happened in that movie Ready or Not, which

1149
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: I did watch and did thoroughly enjoy. But there's a

1150
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 1: few different moments where the female protagonist of that movie

1151
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 1: has an opportunity to like kill someone who was trying

1152
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: to kill her by either like running them over with

1153
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: a car or like shooting them with a gun, or

1154
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 1: like doing something with some weapon that she has at

1155
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,759
Speaker 1: her disposal, and she doesn't do that, and then instead

1156
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: like she's just like I'm just gonna get away, and

1157
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: because she didn't kill that person, that person gets back

1158
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: up and then tries to kill her somewhere, and that

1159
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: the ending of the second Strangers is what got to do?

1160
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 1: They do it all the time, but the ending of

1161
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: that one, I was like, Jesus fucking Christ okay, but

1162
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: I would argue for Wendy and this one where she

1163
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: from what we know and we don't know enough about her,

1164
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: which is like a central Kubrick Kane whatever, everyone's fault,

1165
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: everyone's fault. I'm not saying Kuber's king. Uh that from

1166
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: what we know, she has been kind of societally and

1167
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: personally forced to define herself by this man for let's

1168
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: just say her entire adult life, right, And so I

1169
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: understand her reticence to murder him. Also we know that

1170
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: no one's going to believe her. So my point was

1171
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: going to be that I like that she first she

1172
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 1: bonks him over the head, knocking him unconscious, and then

1173
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: I think in other movies, thank you for that a fact.

1174
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: I think in other movies she just would have like

1175
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 1: left him there on the landing of the stairs and

1176
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 1: then like just try to do something. But the fact

1177
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,560
Speaker 1: that she then drags him and locks him in a

1178
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,640
Speaker 1: room that he can't get out of, even though he

1179
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: somehow did, um Like, I really like that. And then

1180
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 1: when he is chopping down the door later, the fact

1181
01:13:55,800 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: that she like stabs him in the hand, I was like, go, Wendy, yes,

1182
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: like he's trying to kill you, try to kill him back.

1183
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 1: It seems like strategic to where like it's clear she

1184
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 1: doesn't want to kill him, and it's clear that, like

1185
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 1: in a lot of abusive relationships, she has some love

1186
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: for him, right of course, even though she knows he's

1187
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: a monster. And so it's I kind of like that,

1188
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: It's like she doesn't want to kill him, She's doing

1189
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: what she needs to do to protect herself and her son,

1190
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 1: and she's she's like, if that means locking you in

1191
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: here and then having someone come back and arrest you,

1192
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, And so yeah, can we talk about the

1193
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: use of the naked ladies? Yes? So, I mean I

1194
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: think that this is like one of the more obvious, glaring,

1195
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: like come on things where I mean, I guess, given

1196
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: what we know about Jack, it's not super surprising that

1197
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: he's a lecherous creep, right because he's clearly not interested

1198
01:14:55,400 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: in self improvement um or people's boundaries. So I'm not

1199
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: even really commenting on that as much as just the

1200
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,759
Speaker 1: way that the movie seems to feel about Like Stanley

1201
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 1: Cooper has a pretty well documented history of like women

1202
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: as props, so does all movies. Um, but this is

1203
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 1: like pretty pretty aggressively, you know, where we see the

1204
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: young woman versus the old woman, and it's very much like, oh,

1205
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: the young woman is hot, silent, horny, right, we don't

1206
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: need to know anything about her. And then the second

1207
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,759
Speaker 1: you see like an old woman, uh, it's complete body horror.

1208
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: Is rotting. Besides that, I get where you're coming from

1209
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 1: is rotting, but I feel like that there, that's like

1210
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 1: co of like how people view older women. Older women

1211
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: are rarely shown on screen as hot or at all, right,

1212
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: first of all, at all, and if they are there

1213
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 1: certainly not like viable romantic people. This is a this

1214
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: is a plug for Grayson Frankie Gloria I love. Oh yeah,

1215
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 1: this is a Gloria. But yeah, I mean watch Grayson

1216
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:19,759
Speaker 1: Frankie to see sexy, hot older women getting fun honestly.

1217
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean I just like, I mean,

1218
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: that's I think one of the more obvious critiques of

1219
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: this movie. But like, come on, right, yeah, I think

1220
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 1: that's all I had. Did anyone have any other thoughts

1221
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 1: about the film? I had, Does it pass the Bechtel test?

1222
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: Not even a little of it? I was considering him,

1223
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: and then you guys spoke, Yeah, no, absolutely not. The

1224
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 1: only scene where two female characters talk at all is

1225
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: when the two Grady twins asked Danny if they want

1226
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,799
Speaker 1: to play with him? Right, Oh, I wanted to mention

1227
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: that that is and he like, it wasn't like a

1228
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: steel it was a borrow. But um, Kubrick took that

1229
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,559
Speaker 1: image from a Diane Arbus photo, who's like a famous

1230
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 1: feminist photo, very pro lgbt Q plus photographer, and he

1231
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: saw like a picture she took of twins and like

1232
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: that direct image isn't interesting, so Arbus representation, And it

1233
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't even and it wasn't like I'll

1234
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 1: give Kuber credit of like he attributed that term. So

1235
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,959
Speaker 1: that's fun. If only we had known about their interests,

1236
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 1: their names, what are their names? They like to play,

1237
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: and they like to wear the same dress, so we

1238
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: already know more about them than we do about Wendy.

1239
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 1: So yeah, so, um, yes, does that pass the Bechdel tests?

1240
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: So let's rate it on our nipple scale zero to

1241
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 1: five nipples based on its representation of women. Um, this

1242
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: is really hard because on one hand, I don't know

1243
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: how harsh you guys judge it. Pretty hard, I want

1244
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: to say like one, I want to go to Nips,

1245
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: but then I feel like you guys are like one

1246
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 1: nip was one of my two nips is as your

1247
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 1: guys is one nip in my opinion in my hands

1248
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: honestly going to go to two and a half. I

1249
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: think I think I'm gonna go to on this one,

1250
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 1: and that with the kind of I think probably keeping

1251
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: in mind that we're giving the movie maybe a little

1252
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 1: bit too much credit based on the read that we

1253
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:40,440
Speaker 1: have talked about today to take based on the revisionist

1254
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 1: history we have put upon it. But no, I mean

1255
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 1: I think that, like, I think that a lot of

1256
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: the criticism leveraged against Wendy's character, even like five or

1257
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 1: six years ago, wasn't taking into consideration the dynamics of

1258
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: the relationship and that she's clearly a victim in this

1259
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 1: relationship and it's super clear that she needs to, you know,

1260
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: survive without help. She's not believed. I think that there's

1261
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: there's like more than some critics of her character are

1262
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: giving it credit for. And if you think about it,

1263
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 1: it's most of her decisions for me, makes sense inside

1264
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:22,600
Speaker 1: of the fucking nightmare that she's It's Nerristontal um So,

1265
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:26,719
Speaker 1: I think I think that especially for and and also

1266
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: this is the second Stephen King's story we've covered on

1267
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 1: this we covered Carry all right, um And I think

1268
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 1: that he deals with this female character far better than

1269
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: he treats Carry. Um and so in terms of I

1270
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: mean even growth of of I'm always pleasantly surprised when

1271
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: a man manages to write a female character thoughtfully at all. Uh.

1272
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: And I don't agree with a lot of Kuber's adaptations.

1273
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: I agree with none of the ways that he treated

1274
01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 1: his performers. But on the strength of Wendy being like

1275
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 1: a very tragic but ultimately victorious example of a woman

1276
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship, it gets two nipples from me,

1277
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 1: and I'm giving them to Mr hall Ran very good

1278
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: twist who lives in my version and the canonical version.

1279
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: Um There's there's a line in the movie that Mr

1280
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: Grady says telling Jack after he's been locked in the pantry.

1281
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: Mr Grady is like that wife of yours is stronger

1282
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: than we thought. She seems resourceful. So he even even

1283
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: the acknowledges her strength and her power. Um. So, Yes,

1284
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: he's an icon. The lens through which I chose to

1285
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: watch the movie this time in terms of it being

1286
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: a story about Wendy, you know, struggling through this abusive

1287
01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: relationship and trying to save herself and her son. That

1288
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:04,560
Speaker 1: read lends itself I think, yeah, like a two and

1289
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,720
Speaker 1: a half nipple rating, because even so we still don't

1290
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 1: really know anything about her character, and it's a long movie.

1291
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: It's the version I watch is two hours long, although

1292
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 1: according to use, the two and a half hour version

1293
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: have to say so there's a there's time to get

1294
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 1: to know her a little bit better anything outside of

1295
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: her role as a wife and a mother, and as

1296
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: well as the way this movie treats other cultures, races,

1297
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: etcetera universally. But the fact that we do see her,

1298
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: I mean, in the context of this story, we do

1299
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,880
Speaker 1: see her being the one who's like taking care of

1300
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: the upkeep of the hotel. She like knows how to

1301
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: use a radio. I don't know how to use a radio.

1302
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how to check a boiler to right.

1303
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 1: But I'm saying like she she knows how to do

1304
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: this stuff, all the emotional labor of like handling her

1305
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 1: husband's responsibilities and then also being pretty much the sole

1306
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,759
Speaker 1: caregiver of their son and all the all this different

1307
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 1: stuff and the fact that she does like fight back

1308
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: and she is triumphant in the end. I do enjoy Uh.

1309
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: But I also think the movie is far more interested

1310
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: in showing us Jack's mental unraveling than it is showing

1311
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 1: us anything about Wendy's character, because there are long stretches

1312
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,479
Speaker 1: of time where we don't see Wendy at all, and

1313
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 1: the movie is just overall far more focused on Jack.

1314
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, we can we can do better on a

1315
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: on a twenty nine version of a story like this.

1316
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm interested, Well, I'm interested also in seeing how the

1317
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: uh doctor, Sleep Doctor starring who does it? Who's the

1318
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: actor in that movie? Jamie You and McGregor, You and McGregor, you,

1319
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: you and you, I said, you and you kill me.

1320
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:09,759
Speaker 1: I'm interested in seeing it and how it deals with trauma,

1321
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: like how it deals with trauma in an adult from childhood. Yes, indeed,

1322
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 1: so two and a half nipples I'm going to give

1323
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:20,839
Speaker 1: to to Wendy and then my half nipple is split

1324
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: between the Grady twins, Brave and gross Corey. To nipples

1325
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: are you giving them to? Given one to Wendy and

1326
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: one to Danny. Danny we're having to deal with. Corey.

1327
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:41,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here, thank you for

1328
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 1: having someone like me on this. But you're a bit

1329
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 1: You've been so hard on yourself. Okay, I have sciatica

1330
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 1: and deal with that today. Okay for my psietica. No,

1331
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:53,560
Speaker 1: I'm in a good win and I'm really happy to

1332
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 1: be here. I'm just saying, we love you. It's so

1333
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 1: dark in this room, scary, Corey, what would you like

1334
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,680
Speaker 1: to un Where can people find you online? You can

1335
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: find me online and on t whether at Corey T.

1336
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 1: Johnson because obviously Corey Johnson has taken and the T

1337
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,719
Speaker 1: stands for Taylor. I guess that's all I have. Okay.

1338
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: You can follow us at bechtel Cast on all the

1339
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: social media places. You can subscribe to our Patreon a

1340
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: k a. Matreon. It's five dollars a month and it

1341
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 1: gets you to bonus episodes every month. That's at patreon

1342
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 1: dot com, slash packetel Cast. You can go to our

1343
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: merch store t public dot com slash the backtel Cast,

1344
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 1: and hey, it's not too late to get your feminist

1345
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 1: icon Beetle Juice T shirt. You can get your wet

1346
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: scabs and dry scabs T shirts as well. Uh to

1347
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 1: sport all year round and then get out there and

1348
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 1: don't do all work and no play. Give yourself some play.

1349
01:24:55,280 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 1: Don't be a doll person. Not okay, Bye you