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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stop? Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House to works dot Com. Hey there, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. And Kristen,

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe today we could start the podcast with

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Speaker 1: a little dose of my personal pain from childhood. Always

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Speaker 1: a good way to start a podcast in my opinion. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I go for it. I love hearing your painful past stories.

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Speaker 1: All right, here you go. Here's one. This probably represents

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Speaker 1: the most embarrassed I ever was as an adolescent. Ever ever. Well, okay, shoot, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm sixteen, just got my driver's license. My dad's

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Speaker 1: taken me to the used car lot to find a car,

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Speaker 1: and we find one we like, and we go into

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Speaker 1: that little room that car salesmen taking into and they're

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Speaker 1: trying to make the deal. And I became mortified when

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Speaker 1: my father started haggling, because it's just I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I just thought that the car salesman would would get

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Speaker 1: a bad impression of us, and he was being so forceful,

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Speaker 1: and I just I was really upset by it that

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Speaker 1: I actually went and hit in the bathroom instead of

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Speaker 1: waiting for my my deal to be made. I was

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Speaker 1: just I was just so embarrassed that my father negotiated

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Speaker 1: at that car price. First of all, Molly, I find

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Speaker 1: it amazing that that is your most embarrassing story from

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Speaker 1: child is Well, I mean, I said at a lessons

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean I I was freaked out that

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we're getting in there, my dad's

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Speaker 1: yelling at some guy about numbers. Yeah, I mean, negotiation

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Speaker 1: is definitely an uncomfortable thing, especially for women. I find Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it sounds pretty stereotypical. I O, women

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Speaker 1: don't like to negotiate. I don't like to negotiate. I like,

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Speaker 1: totally fit that stereotype. Well you're not the only one, Christen,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, in addition to me, we've

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Speaker 1: got a whole host of statistics we can go over

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Speaker 1: about how women don't like to negotiate. And I was

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Speaker 1: so relieved to find that someone think about it the

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Speaker 1: way I do. They say they see it as going

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Speaker 1: to the dentist. Basically, men's negotiation is like a wrestling match,

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Speaker 1: a time to get down and dirty. And that's how

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Speaker 1: my dad was like when when we gotten in the car,

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Speaker 1: like drive it off a lot, my dad was like pumped,

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Speaker 1: he had adrenaline going through him. He was happy with

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Speaker 1: the dealing made. And you know, he just explained to me,

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Speaker 1: like the guy expects it, that's what we're supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if it was you driving that cough a lot,

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Speaker 1: you probably would have been just shaking so relieved, like

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Speaker 1: ripping a band aid off or something, right, like I

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Speaker 1: just you know, get through it. And I would have

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Speaker 1: probably still been embarrassed about it. Even if I had

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Speaker 1: negotiated myself been like, oh gosh, he thinks I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: just an awful person. Right, Women sometimes they're socialized too,

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Speaker 1: you know, not be pushy like that. Negotiation I think

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Speaker 1: can feel just naturally uncomfortable because it goes against maybe

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Speaker 1: the types of things we were raised with, the types

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Speaker 1: of stereotypical behavior, you know that women were and were

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Speaker 1: not expected to do. You know, negotiation and haggling is

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Speaker 1: a man's job, so right, and it seems impolite. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you were raised a good then girl like me,

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Speaker 1: that's not within your manners to just start haggling, right,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of cultural factor could be one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why of adult women say that they never

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Speaker 1: negotiate at all, even though they need know that they

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Speaker 1: need to write and this just you know, it may

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Speaker 1: say be faced for like a few minutes, but it

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Speaker 1: has very long ranging h financial implications in every aspect,

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Speaker 1: whether it's buying a car, negotiating your car price, negotiating

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Speaker 1: your first salary. It's it costs to not negotiate. Basically. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There was there's a real world example that I think

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Speaker 1: sums this up pretty well. There was one study um

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Speaker 1: in which men and women participants were told that if

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Speaker 1: they came and participated, they would earn between five and

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Speaker 1: twelve dollars. So at the end of the study, when

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Speaker 1: the women were leaving, the people who were conducting the

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Speaker 1: study said, oh, here you go, here's your five dollars,

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Speaker 1: and most of the women just took the five dollars,

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Speaker 1: whereas a lot of the men, once they were handed

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Speaker 1: five dollars, said whoa, whoa, wait a second, you said

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Speaker 1: that I could it up to twelve dollars. I would

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Speaker 1: like twelve dollars, And they actually negotiated their way up

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Speaker 1: to doubling and almost tripling. You know, bet initial five dollars. Right.

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Speaker 1: A little known fact of how I got christened to

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Speaker 1: you this podcast was I gave her five dollars instead

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Speaker 1: of twelve. Wait a second, and but here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's probably what people did when they got

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Speaker 1: their first job, you know. And maybe they were told

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Speaker 1: a range of salaries and when they got the bottom one,

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Speaker 1: they just took it. Whereas men are more inclined to

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Speaker 1: ask for more, right, men who negotiate their jobs are

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Speaker 1: usually able to increase their starting salaries by an average

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Speaker 1: of seven point five percent, or four thousand dollars. And

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Speaker 1: that is nothing to sneeze at. Four thousand dollars. That's

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Speaker 1: a down payment on something, right, And then are negotiating

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Speaker 1: initiating these negotiations about four times as much as women.

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Speaker 1: So you hear a lot about the gender pay gap.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is kind of what it made me

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Speaker 1: think of um. On average, according to you the Bureau

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Speaker 1: of Labor Satistics, women make about eighty percent of what

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Speaker 1: men usually make for the same job. But one interesting

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Speaker 1: study that kind of relates to all this is that

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Speaker 1: men starting salaries are usually about four thousand dollars higher

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Speaker 1: than women's on average, and if men were going in

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Speaker 1: there and negotiating for that some point four percent more

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Speaker 1: or about four thousand dollars, that could be one of

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Speaker 1: the areas where we're kind of shooting ourselves in the

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Speaker 1: foot and keeping that gap wide open. So basically, we

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Speaker 1: start off behind and then we can never catch up.

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Speaker 1: We're shooting ourselves in the foot and never catching up.

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Speaker 1: And to the tune of the fact that by the

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Speaker 1: time we're sixty, were five thousand dollars behind the men

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Speaker 1: and overall salary earnings. That sucks. Yes, it does. So

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Speaker 1: you know what, Molly, we gotta take back the power.

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Speaker 1: We gotta learn how to negotiate. Okay, I want five

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Speaker 1: or thousand dollars, and I want it now. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna get it now, but let's learn about how

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Speaker 1: negotiation works. Okay, there are three parts of negotiation. First,

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Speaker 1: recognize the conflict. All right, you want something, Say, all right,

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Speaker 1: your dad was a used car salesman. He wants a car,

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Speaker 1: and he wants it for cheaper. There's a conflict. Then

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Speaker 1: you stay your claims. Your dad, while you were hiding

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom, was probably telling the used car salesman

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Speaker 1: that he wanted the car for let's say, fifteen thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars instead of twenty dollars. He was stating his claim,

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Speaker 1: and then once they started haggling, at some point they

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Speaker 1: had to concede. They had to meet somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 1: So maybe instead of buying the twenty tho dollar car

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Speaker 1: for fifteen thousand dollars, he paid, oh, seventeen thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So that, in a nutshell, is a negotiation, right. But

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Speaker 1: I was more worried about the people on the other

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Speaker 1: side of it, which was I was worried that the

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Speaker 1: seller wanted to make as much as possible, and I

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Speaker 1: was worried that, you know, um, the seller wanted more

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Speaker 1: money for the car. But what I was doing was

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Speaker 1: sort of ignoring the fact where I could, um, just

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Speaker 1: by you know, being interested in the car, I could

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Speaker 1: give him a benefit. He could sell a car that

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Speaker 1: day and you know, maybe get a commission, maybe just

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Speaker 1: meet a sales quota. And so that's I think a

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Speaker 1: key points to realize that there can be benefits in

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Speaker 1: the deal for everyone. You've just got to find them,

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Speaker 1: right And one of the first places that you should

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Speaker 1: start before you even walk into that sales room and

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Speaker 1: start haggling. If you gotta do your homework. If you've

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Speaker 1: got to know how much is let's say back to

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Speaker 1: the car. If you're buying a car, you have to

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Speaker 1: know how much it is actually worth in whatever specific

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Speaker 1: condition it's in, so that you can walk in there

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Speaker 1: knowing that they're probably inflating the price somewhat, and you

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Speaker 1: can have facts to back you up with, you know,

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Speaker 1: justifying your claims exactly. And the same thing if you're

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Speaker 1: you know, negotching your salary. And this one might be

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Speaker 1: a little bit harder because you've got to turn the

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Speaker 1: lens on yourself. You've got to know how much you

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Speaker 1: are worth. So that means before you even go in

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Speaker 1: for a job interview, you've got to know what other

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Speaker 1: people in this position are making. Um, you know what

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Speaker 1: kind of education background you're bringing to this, what your

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Speaker 1: skill sets are that are that are very you know,

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Speaker 1: defined and special to you because you have something to offer.

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Speaker 1: When we can go for jobs, we often think, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I hope I get hired. I need a job. But

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Speaker 1: you have services that you were offering to them, and

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Speaker 1: that's what you've got. Our members, it's still a two

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Speaker 1: way street, just like buying a car exactly, and that's

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Speaker 1: all part of strategizing your approach. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: with negotiations, there are two approaches you can take. You

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Speaker 1: can take the more soft approach, which you would probably

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Speaker 1: use in a salary negotiation situation where you know you

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Speaker 1: don't want to UM anger your you know, potential new

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Speaker 1: boss by demanding to have some insanely high salary, so

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Speaker 1: you're probably gonna want to work with it and a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, be a little you know, a little gentler.

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Speaker 1: But then if you go to the car lot, you're

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Speaker 1: probably gonna want to take more of a hard approach.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna say, you know what, I'm only paying fifteen

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars for his car and you can take it

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Speaker 1: or leave it right. And I will say, since we

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Speaker 1: do have UM women's concerns that our forefront, Kristen, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be too soft with the boss, though true,

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Speaker 1: because there are studies that show that women probably take

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Speaker 1: UM more of a softer appotion than they need to,

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Speaker 1: and they back down, whereas when men negotiate with their

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Speaker 1: future by says it's just business, they're able to separate

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Speaker 1: out that UM idea that they might offend the boss

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Speaker 1: and play hardball and then go have drinks with the

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Speaker 1: boss afterwards, whereas that's not something that women are as

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Speaker 1: comfortable doing. Now, Molly, that sounds like a certain negotiation

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Speaker 1: strategy that I've heard of called separating the people from

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Speaker 1: the problem, And I think that that strategy is the

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Speaker 1: number one things at least for me personally with negotiation

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Speaker 1: that I would have to keep in mind, right, it's

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Speaker 1: not personal right walking into negotiations, we might care a

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Speaker 1: little bit too much about how the other person is

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Speaker 1: going to perceive us, if we're going to come across

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Speaker 1: as hard nosed, be words who you know who, they're

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Speaker 1: just gonna bad mouth once we leave. We need to

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Speaker 1: get rid of all of that. If we've done our

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Speaker 1: homework and we have a strategy worked out, we need

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Speaker 1: to separate what people are going to think about us

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Speaker 1: from what we actually need to accomplish. And we need

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Speaker 1: to do is think about what they want. Because if

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Speaker 1: we get to the root of demands and not just

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Speaker 1: think about positions that people hold like boss and job applicant,

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Speaker 1: buy or seller, but if we get to what each

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Speaker 1: person wants and how they can benefit from things. Then

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Speaker 1: you can sort of make your demands so that they

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Speaker 1: seem reasonable. You know, you say, well, I have all

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Speaker 1: the special certification in X, so I think I should

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Speaker 1: get X more dollars. And if you approach it like that,

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Speaker 1: you can actually enlarge the pie if you will that

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Speaker 1: you're looking at small. Let's also think about let's think

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Speaker 1: about negotiation as a pie. All right, pizza pie. It

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Speaker 1: could be a pizza pie. I was thinking of a

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Speaker 1: blueberry pie. Excited about negotiation, I think it. So let's

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Speaker 1: think of a negotiation as a pepperoni pizza for Molly's sake.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know I want I want three quarters

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Speaker 1: of it, but you but you don't want to get

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Speaker 1: you only want to give you just a little bit

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Speaker 1: if you only want to give me one slice. So

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Speaker 1: they're but they're actually ways a negotiation that you can

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Speaker 1: enlarge the size of that pie. You can have a

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Speaker 1: pie and a l zone on the side. I know.

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Speaker 1: And that's called inventing options for mutual gain. And I

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Speaker 1: really like this concept of negotiation because it allows you

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Speaker 1: to think of as many options as possible so that

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Speaker 1: both parties can walk away satisfied. So going back to salary, negotiation.

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Speaker 1: If you can't take as much of a hard lined

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Speaker 1: approach with demanding you know, your fifty dollar salary, maybe

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Speaker 1: you would be more satisfied with stay forty dollars and

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Speaker 1: an extra week of vacation. You just expanded your pie,

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Speaker 1: so it's like getting a salad with the pizza, bread

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Speaker 1: sticks with the pizza. Yes, now I'm pretty distracted by

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Speaker 1: the pizza, but I also think that you know, despite

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Speaker 1: how much I love pizza, you've still got to be

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Speaker 1: objective about it at the end of the day. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not just going to settle for a pizza because

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Speaker 1: they're giving me a personal pan pizza even though they

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Speaker 1: know I love pizza. At the at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, I'm going to keep my emotions in check

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Speaker 1: and be like, even though I love pizza, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to settle for just this little amount of pizza

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Speaker 1: if it's not enough for me. You have to remember

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Speaker 1: how much power that you hold as a consumer, As

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Speaker 1: someone who you know has job talents or whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that you're negotiating for, You hold a lot of

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Speaker 1: power when you walk into a negotiation situation as long

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Speaker 1: as you do your homework right. So I guess the

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Speaker 1: message here for all women who find negotiation a little

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Speaker 1: bit scary is just to you know, do your homework right,

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Speaker 1: keep the emotions out of it right. And since that's

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Speaker 1: all easier said than done, why don't we end on

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Speaker 1: just a few more or really scary statistics. Kristen, Well

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Speaker 1: this one. If this does not convince you that you

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Speaker 1: need to start negotiating, I really don't know what will.

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Speaker 1: Because Molly, women who consistently negotiate their own salary earn

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Speaker 1: at least one million more dollars in their careers than

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Speaker 1: women who don't. A million dollars. Well, and do you

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Speaker 1: know how many pizzas that you can buy for a

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Speaker 1: lot of pizza? You can eat pizza every day. I'm

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Speaker 1: sold on negotiation. No more haggling for me, but for

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Speaker 1: with you. I mean I will haggle now in the

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Speaker 1: real world. Oh and by the way, I want twelve

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Speaker 1: dollars instead of five dollars for this podcast. We'll see

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Speaker 1: about that. Let's negotiate, Let's go get pizza. Well, if

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Speaker 1: you want to learn more about negotiation or other business topics,

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Speaker 1: you can read all about that on how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics.

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Speaker 1: Is it howstuff works dot com? Brought to you by

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Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, Are you