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Speaker 2: Let's bring in our global autos Zar right now. Craig
Speaker 2: Trudell joins us out of London. He covers all the
Speaker 2: carmakers and has around the world, but focuses in because
Speaker 2: he also is the editor of the Hyperdrive newsletter.
Speaker 3: On EV's and we're seeing really.
Speaker 2: A changing, a changing c here in terms of EV demand, Craig,
Speaker 2: certainly in the US, and that reads out well in
Speaker 2: the drop in Tesla sales, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: It absolutely does, I think.
Speaker 5: You know, it was interesting earlier this week to see
Speaker 5: Tesla come out with its own company compiled census.
Speaker 4: For these delivery figures.
Speaker 5: You know, it's sort of turned a lot of heads
Speaker 5: because the average estimate that they put in in their
Speaker 5: release was much lower than the Bloomberg compiled average estimate.
Speaker 5: It turns out that Tesla came up short even of
Speaker 5: their own lower.
Speaker 4: Expectations that they pulled together.
Speaker 5: It wasn't by much, and so we're not seeing a
Speaker 5: huge move in the shares at least for the moment.
Speaker 5: But we did see the company's stock price kind of
Speaker 5: stumble in the last few sessions of the year, perhaps
Speaker 5: in anticipation of the fact that these numbers were going
Speaker 5: to be a bit soft.
Speaker 6: How do what's the view out there in the marketplace
Speaker 6: at craig about how committed Tesla is to its core
Speaker 6: auto business visa vs. Some of the other businesses that
Speaker 6: Tesla's involved in. That seems to have attracted Elon's real
Speaker 6: attention and the attention to the marketplace in general.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, if we
Speaker 5: were to sort of break down, you know, maybe use
Speaker 5: Groc his chatbot to break down how much which he's
Speaker 5: talking about his humanoid robot optimists versus you know, Tesla's
Speaker 5: sort of core business, I think it would be no contests.
Speaker 5: I mean, he does also talk quite a bit about robotaxis.
Speaker 5: And yet in terms of execution there, you know, we
Speaker 5: have vehicles in Austin and in the San Francisco Bay
Speaker 5: area that are operating still with people supervising upfront. And
Speaker 5: you know, yes, the company did do some testing towards
Speaker 5: the very end of the year, you know, some driverless testing,
Speaker 5: but you know that would put them years behind Weimo
Speaker 5: on that front.
Speaker 4: You've not seen them scale up a.
Speaker 5: Quote unquote robotaxi business the way Weimo has now in
Speaker 5: many cities across the US.
Speaker 4: Craig.
Speaker 2: We had a Bloomberg client writing in earlier with the
Speaker 2: tongue in cheek comment about how many robots Tesla has sold.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting, you know, the company is valued at
Speaker 2: one and a half trillion dollars, not because it sells
Speaker 2: one point eight million cars a year, but because investors
Speaker 2: have faith in Elon Musk's I guess creativity and success
Speaker 2: in future endeavors like robots.
Speaker 3: What do we know about what else Tesla could do
Speaker 3: to make money?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that's a really good question,
Speaker 5: and I guess I would put that more so focus
Speaker 5: that more so on the question of robotaxis. And I think,
Speaker 5: you know, with Waimo, we know very little at this
Speaker 5: juncture about you know, just how profitable Weimo's business is.
Speaker 5: I think we can you know, make a pretty informed,
Speaker 5: you know, assumption that they're losing quite a bit of money.
Speaker 5: The company is regularly raising a lot of cash from
Speaker 5: primarily from Alphabet and has knock gone public. So we've
Speaker 5: not seen you know, what sort of figures they have internally,
Speaker 5: but you know, I think that's one of the things
Speaker 5: that's going to be interesting to watch play out in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty six is, you know, everybody is very excited
Speaker 5: about robo taxis, and for good reason. It's really neat
Speaker 5: to sit in a car with no one behind the wheel.
Speaker 5: The question I have is, of course, you know, how
Speaker 5: quickly can we scale that capability in a way that's
Speaker 5: actually generating money? And I think, you know, some people
Speaker 5: are willing to give us the benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 5: as you mentioned, and willing to also take him at
Speaker 5: his word that he can scale quicker, you know, sort
Speaker 5: of over a longer time period. But in terms of
Speaker 5: you know, here and now, who actually has cars on
Speaker 5: the road that don't have drivers behind the human drivers
Speaker 5: behind the wheel, Weimo is ahead of Tesla, and it's
Speaker 5: not at all close because we've not seen Tesla actually
Speaker 5: commercialize that.
Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
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Speaker 7: Let's talk about deep Seek. Yes, it is back in
Speaker 7: the news.
Speaker 8: Deep Seek is going to soon release new AIMI model
Speaker 8: that could up end.
Speaker 7: The sector like it did just a year ago.
Speaker 8: The company just published a paper that outlines ways to
Speaker 8: develop AI that improves scalability while reducing the computational and
Speaker 8: energy demands of training the model, or so it claims to.
Speaker 8: Let's bring in Bloomberg Tech co host ed Ludlow, who's
Speaker 8: in San Francisco.
Speaker 5: Ed.
Speaker 7: Is this going to do the same thing as.
Speaker 8: Last February when the markets are roctions or are we
Speaker 8: sort of used to the fact now that other people
Speaker 8: can do AI too?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's certainly kind of a repeat of the format
Speaker 9: that Deep seekers is kind of utized, where they publish
Speaker 9: a white paper and the white paper or research and
Speaker 9: it kind of explains that because of constraints on Chinese
Speaker 9: technology companies, principally a lack of access to the lead
Speaker 9: edge AI chips, they have to get clever from a
Speaker 9: computer science perspective on the architectures, how a model is
Speaker 9: weave together, how it is trained, the data it uses,
Speaker 9: et cetera. And again they've just published a white paper
Speaker 9: that would suggest they found another way of doing that that,
Speaker 9: as you pointed out, it's computationally and from an energy perspective,
Speaker 9: much more efficient. But it's often a precursor to the
Speaker 9: release of a wider model. So what we're waiting on
Speaker 9: is what most people refer to as deep seek are
Speaker 9: two the kind of next large scale frontier model and
Speaker 9: the expectations that that will come in February or March,
Speaker 9: and depending on how it performs and ranks in the tables,
Speaker 9: could potentially upend the kind of marketplace right now, which
Speaker 9: includes competition with American frontier labs for models.
Speaker 6: So if we had that deep seek news again a
Speaker 6: year ago and it really up ended the market, yeah,
Speaker 6: is it just me that I haven't really heard too
Speaker 6: much about deep seek since then?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean two things.
Speaker 9: The first is that deep seek has continued to work
Speaker 9: on smaller models with fewer parameters, and it takes time
Speaker 9: to train very very large models. But kind of what
Speaker 9: happened in the kind of eruption of February, March and
Speaker 9: April of last year in the financial markets is when
Speaker 9: Deep Seak started publishing its evidence and the performance of
Speaker 9: its models and what it took to train them. Everyone
Speaker 9: was like, well, huh, hold on a minute. It didn't
Speaker 9: cost you guys very much. It was a lot cheaper
Speaker 9: than what the American companies are doing, and you didn't
Speaker 9: have access to all this technology that is propping up
Speaker 9: the entire market, right, and so it kind of raised
Speaker 9: the question why are we so bullish and all of
Speaker 9: this in America's context, like all of our evidence for
Speaker 9: this market rally or to that point, because remember, like
Speaker 9: within video in a mag seven, this was a multi
Speaker 9: year thing was because of all the spending and the
Speaker 9: performance of those chips. But the present day, the way
Speaker 9: that we compare the performance different models is peer review
Speaker 9: and performance tables and in the kind of free, lower
Speaker 9: cost Chinese models are up there. And so that's why
Speaker 9: we're kind of bracing for R two and what it
Speaker 9: might show us in terms.
Speaker 10: Of performance ed what do we know about what chips
Speaker 10: Deepseek is using And was there just a little bit
Speaker 10: of skepticism that maybe Deep Sea might be using some
Speaker 10: kind of in video chip at one point.
Speaker 9: Yeah, there have been media reports that deep Seek and
Speaker 9: other Chinese firms were able to get access to the
Speaker 9: latest generation of Nvidia GPUs by acquiring them from data
Speaker 9: centers in permitted countries, disassembling those data centers, and then
Speaker 9: essentially smuggling them through a third country. Go on to
Speaker 9: Bloomberg dot Com or the Terminal read the very detailed
Speaker 9: reporting on that. There was also a lot of skepticism
Speaker 9: about that reporting because right now in Nvidia is severely
Speaker 9: supply constrained. Any demand that's out there accounts for all
Speaker 9: the chips they're ever going to make, and as one
Speaker 9: source put it to me, you don't just sort of
Speaker 9: see thousands of black well chips go missing, such is
Speaker 9: the demand for them. So it was something that at
Speaker 9: the time in Vidia issued a statement straight away and said,
Speaker 9: you don't see any evidence of sort of these missing
Speaker 9: chips that are being smuggled through different countries. But therein
Speaker 9: lies the point of why you're asking me about deep
Speaker 9: Seek and it's white paper. It's what China's technology companies
Speaker 9: are able to do without access to those chips. That
Speaker 9: is the main focus.
Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 7: From January to year round moderation.
Speaker 8: Non Alcoholic beer is booming. Bill Schufeldt is the co
Speaker 8: founder and CEO of Athletic Brewing Company. I'm sure you've
Speaker 8: seen those cans in the stores or perhaps your local bar.
Speaker 8: It's one of the nation's top non alcoholic beer brands.
Speaker 8: He joins us now in studio to talk about what's
Speaker 8: on tap for Booseless SuDS. So, Bill, this is an
Speaker 8: insane growth story that you've just been telling me. So
Speaker 8: you started actually what ten years ago, and now your
Speaker 8: ten x or the market is ten x.
Speaker 7: Explain what you were just telling us.
Speaker 11: For sure, it's it's been a really fun ride. We
Speaker 11: started the non alcoholic beer market basically had flatline for
Speaker 11: thirty years before ten years ago. Where we came in
Speaker 11: and liked to think we reimagined both the product and
Speaker 11: the marketing of the category, taking out of the penalty
Speaker 11: box into the mainstream with delicious flavors, and we've taken
Speaker 11: it as a category from about one hundred million to
Speaker 11: passing a billion dollars in the US market this year,
Speaker 11: and we think that could continue to grow. We expected
Speaker 11: to five x in the next ten years, with Athletic
Speaker 11: being twenty five percent of that market. Right now, Athletic
Speaker 11: is about eighteen point four share the total category. The
Speaker 11: next biggest is about fourteen and a half share, and
Speaker 11: that it's another four point dropped to the next brand
Speaker 11: behind that. Athletics also fifty two share of the non
Speaker 11: al called craft beer category, which has well over one
Speaker 11: hundred brand So we're outsiding the next one hundred plus combined.
Speaker 11: And it's really meeting those that next generation of consumers
Speaker 11: where they're at.
Speaker 6: What's been the response competitive response from some of the
Speaker 6: big brewers, which I can't even know the names now
Speaker 6: they've all merged into one big entity, I think for sure.
Speaker 11: So as you've heard on this segment before too, over
Speaker 11: forty percent of consumers are doing dry January this year,
Speaker 11: Over fifty percent of consumers now view one or two
Speaker 11: drinks today as unhealthy, and a record low number of
Speaker 11: Americans are also consuming alcohol on a weekly basis. So
Speaker 11: this is a huge growth opportunity for the adult beverage market,
Speaker 11: and a lot of companies relate to that. But over
Speaker 11: the last five years, basically every major brand has entered
Speaker 11: that category with an alcoholic analog to our non alcoholic
Speaker 11: analog to their full strength version, and we really appreciate
Speaker 11: that support and growing the category.
Speaker 8: It's so funny to me, because I didn't have an
Speaker 8: alcoholic beverage in my life until I was nearly thirty.
Speaker 8: I think, and I wonder what makes somebody reach for
Speaker 8: a non alcoholic beer when there are so many other
Speaker 8: drinks that are already non alcoholic out there.
Speaker 11: For sure, it's so when we start Athletic and I
Speaker 11: would try to get people to taste samples or buy
Speaker 11: one of our beers. Getting people to cross that barrier
Speaker 11: was so hard seven or eight years ago. But I
Speaker 11: think the light bulb that goes on over and over
Speaker 11: again for people is that it is such a delicious
Speaker 11: meal pairing at a fraction of the calories as a
Speaker 11: full strength alcohol equivalent. For example, we were just talking
Speaker 11: about before I came in, how our Athletic light is
Speaker 11: twenty five calories no sugar light and carbs, but a
Speaker 11: full taste that's like a perfect guilt free weeknight beer.
Speaker 11: And then we brought a ton of innovation to the
Speaker 11: market too. For example, we're now launching an excited lineup
Speaker 11: of non alcoholic brewed cocktails this January at select retailers
Speaker 11: like Target, and all these different fond flavored.
Speaker 7: Like what give us a foretaste?
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we have off that Athletic light logger. We
Speaker 11: have an Athletic Light Limeman salt launching this year, and
Speaker 11: in a typical year we launch almost fifty different styles
Speaker 11: of beers on our website Athletic Brewing dot com. Where
Speaker 11: before Athletic Brewing this category was a logger only category.
Speaker 11: So from day one, we've really blown the lid off
Speaker 11: what taste and availability can be in this category.
Speaker 3: Who's typical athletic drinker customer?
Speaker 11: So when we came into the category, this category was
Speaker 11: typically a lapsed alcoholic drinker. It was very male heavy,
Speaker 11: it was an older population generally, and since we've redefined
Speaker 11: the product and marketing of the category, we've seen that
Speaker 11: drift younger and younger every year. We think forty five
Speaker 11: percent of our consumers are below age forty five very
Speaker 11: heavy in gen Z consumers really, as people have grown
Speaker 11: up in this digital generation where you have your work
Speaker 11: in your pocket at all times, everything in your life
Speaker 11: is filmed and recorded and on record. And people still
Speaker 11: like to drink, but then they like to zebra stripe
Speaker 11: and work in non alcoholic and options.
Speaker 3: Like zebra striping. And I heard that and I forgot
Speaker 3: it already.
Speaker 11: Yeah, sorry, jumped right over that. It's it's basically we
Speaker 11: And this has been shocking to me. I hear from
Speaker 11: bartenders all the time that people order alcoholic drinks non
Speaker 11: alcoholic alto.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I got you.
Speaker 7: Okay, it's a brilliant idea. You could put food in
Speaker 7: there too, That would actually be a better idea. Curians,
Speaker 7: how do you do it?
Speaker 8: You have so many options and as you say, you're
Speaker 8: trying out different ones all the time, I mean, are
Speaker 8: you very.
Speaker 7: Non profitable or how does it work? That costs a
Speaker 7: lot of money?
Speaker 11: Well, at the end of the day. In our retail lineup,
Speaker 11: we're very focused. We have a core group of about
Speaker 11: five beers which are very popular and highly awarded. We
Speaker 11: won thirty three Taste Awards last year alone and have
Speaker 11: won about one hundred and eighty five Taste Awards. Since
Speaker 11: you know, there's there's been a plethora of entrance into
Speaker 11: this category from major brewers to there's been ten celebrity
Speaker 11: brands with more on the way, and almost none of
Speaker 11: these companies make their own beer, where Athletic has gone
Speaker 11: the other way. We invested one hundred and thirty million
Speaker 11: into our own manufacturing, our brewing quality teams, and ultimately,
Speaker 11: consumers like to know, they want to get the best
Speaker 11: products and like to know what's behind their products. And
Speaker 11: after that celebrity hype, they've really loved what they found
Speaker 11: in that Athletic and so we really try to stay
Speaker 11: focused in our retail lineup and bring people the best
Speaker 11: beers over and over again.
Speaker 6: I got to put my investment backer hat back on.
Speaker 6: How do you capitalize your company? Always fascinate to see
Speaker 6: how these private companies and entrepreneurial companies how they fan themselves.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's such an interesting Like I came from the
Speaker 11: financial world, it's such an interesting world these days between
Speaker 11: private and public capital. And we've been so fortunate to
Speaker 11: have great access to private capital, from angel investors to
Speaker 11: private equity investors like Aligance. Consumer growth in General Atlantic
Speaker 11: and an institutional investor in Kurg Doctor Pepper, and that's
Speaker 11: afforded us the opportunity over the past eight years to
Speaker 11: invest one hundred and thirty million dollars into our US
Speaker 11: manufacturing base. Non all called breweries and taperms weren't a
Speaker 11: thing before Athletic in the country. We built the first one,
Speaker 11: and since then we've built them that are one hundred
Speaker 11: times the output of the original brewery on both coasts
Speaker 11: and in that world we have found really good access
Speaker 11: to private to capital in the private market. But ultimately
Speaker 11: it is really exciting for us to think about potentially
Speaker 11: being a public company or running a long term private company.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I want to ask you more about that, but first
Speaker 8: I have to say the marketing is brilliant because you're
Speaker 8: you know, you're a nonancoholic brewery, but you're targeting athletes
Speaker 8: and people who go for hikes and you know, serious
Speaker 8: mountaineers and dog lovers and outdoors the people. I mean,
Speaker 8: it's just it's amazing. So what is the trajectory that
Speaker 8: you see before going public? I mean, you're going to
Speaker 8: open breweries around the country. Are you going to have
Speaker 8: you know, bars?
Speaker 12: Is that?
Speaker 8: Is that something that can be profitable now to the
Speaker 8: bottom line, or you know, is it better to have
Speaker 8: people just subscribe and sort of have it as a
Speaker 8: you know, beer as a service software is Yeah.
Speaker 11: Well, in terms of our target customer, I basically built
Speaker 11: the target customer around my lifestyle because I was authentically
Speaker 11: living this as a busy professional, love the outdoors. Seventy
Speaker 11: percent of the population considers the self an athlete. Even
Speaker 11: though you'll never find me on any podiums anywhere. I
Speaker 11: love being out there and participate, and so it was
Speaker 11: really about that health and wellness trend. And then yeah,
Speaker 11: beyond that, our awareness is still very low. It's about
Speaker 11: twenty five percent nationally, so we have and our distribution
Speaker 11: is only about thirty nine percent with our top product,
Speaker 11: where a lot of the major beer companies, even in
Speaker 11: our category, even though athletics the number one, have double
Speaker 11: our distribution. So we have a huge amount of awareness
Speaker 11: and distribution to go over the next five ten years,
Speaker 11: and that allows us. We also are trying to open
Speaker 11: the aperture who to who drinks beer? Where Beer over
Speaker 11: the past thirty years had been marketing the smaller and
Speaker 11: smaller audiences, and so this January bringing plans to We're
Speaker 11: working with Open Table with a big partnership to expand
Speaker 11: into the culinary world chefs and athletes and stuff.
Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Speaker 1: Auto with the blue Berg Business app. Listen on demand
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 8: For more on travel, Now, let's bring in Dakota, Smith's
Speaker 8: co founder and president of Hopper.
Speaker 7: Dakota, thank you so much for joining. How is business travel?
Speaker 8: How's it come back post pandemic to the extent that
Speaker 8: we would have liked to come back.
Speaker 13: Yeah, Hi, nice to meet you. The good news this
Speaker 13: travel is doing pretty well in the industry. It's mostly
Speaker 13: fully recovered since the pandemic. Business travel is finally reaching
Speaker 13: its pre pandemic levels and starting to grow. Visure travel
Speaker 13: has been you know, it's surpassed the pre pandemic levels
Speaker 13: probably in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 12: So travel travel out look is still strong.
Speaker 13: I mean, people are still spending on travel despite any
Speaker 13: biggering concerns, any greater economy. We just did a survey
Speaker 13: this year and Traveler said they spent just as much
Speaker 13: as travel on the twenty twenty five holiday season as
Speaker 13: they did twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: For example, how are people spending? What are they doing?
Speaker 6: Is it's still the experiences that people are looking for.
Speaker 12: Here people are spending.
Speaker 13: I would say there's probably one trend that is shifting
Speaker 13: and has really accelerated post pandemic, which is people are
Speaker 13: using their credit card and loyalty programs more and more
Speaker 13: when they're booking travel. Obviously, that is partially to offset
Speaker 13: the costs. Those things lower the cost. Our business has
Speaker 13: really grown around that. For instance, we power travel rewards
Speaker 13: and loyalty for probably about ten banks around the world,
Speaker 13: including Capital One here in the US, other banks around
Speaker 13: the world like Commonwealth Bank of Australia, New Bank in Brazil,
Speaker 13: the world's largest neo bank. And we're building these like
Speaker 13: integrated travel rewards and loyalty experiences directly on the banking
Speaker 13: website or banking apps, so when people are using their
Speaker 13: credit cards, they can earn and burn points and kind
Speaker 13: of access all of these great travel products like some
Speaker 13: of what you were showing on your screen, And that's
Speaker 13: a trend that's just really accelerated. Something like twenty percent,
Speaker 13: twenty five percent of online travel in the United States
Speaker 13: now is being booked directly through a credit card loyalty
Speaker 13: program and that's.
Speaker 12: Just like much, much higher than it was maybe ten
Speaker 12: years ago.
Speaker 8: How much do the banks play into that? You mentioned
Speaker 8: banks in Brazil and outside the United States, But how
Speaker 8: much are customers, you know, booking their travels through banks
Speaker 8: in the US. You said twenty five percent of travelers,
Speaker 8: but how would you increase that figure?
Speaker 13: Well, I think it's been growing year of year. It's
Speaker 13: the fastest growing segment of online travel. So online travel
Speaker 13: is growing about five to six percent year of year,
Speaker 13: which is about two x the average GDP growth rate.
Speaker 13: And most of that growth is actually coming through this
Speaker 13: banking credit card loyalty segment. And there's some simple answers
Speaker 13: and reasons for that. Fundamentally, the banks are offering really
Speaker 13: compelling value propositions and rewards to customers that kind of
Speaker 13: make these experiences some of the best places to book travel.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 13: So to go back to my New Bank example, in Brazil,
Speaker 13: New Bank is offering its customers zero percent APR free
Speaker 13: installment financing for up to twelve months for all trips
Speaker 13: booked in new travel.
Speaker 12: That's very compelling.
Speaker 13: I think the average APR rate for installment financing in
Speaker 13: Brazil is thirty five percent elsewhere.
Speaker 12: So that's one example.
Speaker 13: When you look at Capital one, if you have the
Speaker 13: Adventure X card here in the United States, you can
Speaker 13: earn ten X points when you book a hotel on
Speaker 13: Capital and Travel that's functionally ten percent back for your
Speaker 13: next trip. You know, that makes a difference when travel
Speaker 13: is such a large.
Speaker 6: Category Dakota, just in my own household. I think this
Speaker 6: is part of this is generational. Like the extent I
Speaker 6: go to is I have a Chase card that's branded
Speaker 6: with United because I'm captive to United here in New York.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that's about it.
Speaker 6: My daughter's got twenty seven different scams going any which way.
Speaker 6: She's got it on spa readsheet about points here, points there.
Speaker 6: What you need to do is it a younger generation
Speaker 6: more aggressively, I guess using point to trying to manage
Speaker 6: and capitalize on them.
Speaker 13: I think short and series, yes, I mean the statistics
Speaker 13: are pretty clear. Gen Z is the generation that uses
Speaker 13: loyalty programs and credit card programs to book travel at
Speaker 13: the highest clip of any generation by a lot.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So how are they doing that?
Speaker 8: I mean, how do you keep track and all these
Speaker 8: partner airlines and all these you know, alliances between different
Speaker 8: airlines and so on. Does that happen in the hotel
Speaker 8: industry too? And you know who ultimately benefits from all
Speaker 8: of this?
Speaker 13: I think ultimately the consumer benefits because it's the bank
Speaker 13: is functionally funding or offsetting the costs of these trips.
Speaker 13: You know, the average persons taking four trips per years.
Speaker 13: It's over ten percent of their total income. Humans are
Speaker 13: spending on travel. So anything to make that more affordable,
Speaker 13: I think just benefits the consumer. It benefits the economy,
Speaker 13: benefits the local regions who are receiving the tours and
Speaker 13: revenue and the tax revenue, and ultimately it benefits the suppliers,
Speaker 13: right the airlines and hotels. The banks are making it
Speaker 13: easier for travelers to go through their hotel and to
Speaker 13: book a ticket on their airline. It is hard to
Speaker 13: keep track, but I think a lot of people spreadsheet,
Speaker 13: you know, can afford one or two premium credit cards.
Speaker 13: You know, there's a limit to how many of those
Speaker 13: you can have in your wallet. And you know, just
Speaker 13: choose the best one and it's a great place to book.
Speaker 3: Are the are the travel is the industry? Are they
Speaker 3: embracing this? How do they view it? Is it? Is
Speaker 3: it some way to grow their business?
Speaker 13: Yes, I think in the United States is furthest along
Speaker 13: of any country in the world.
Speaker 12: You've seen this for years and years.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 13: You can look at the earnings reports of the major
Speaker 13: airlines in the US and a huge percentage of their
Speaker 13: their income and especially their profit is related to their
Speaker 13: loyalty program and selling the points to their co brand
Speaker 13: credit card issuing partners.
Speaker 12: So that that's a fundamental.
Speaker 13: Part of the airline business that keeps it going, keeps
Speaker 13: it profitable. Hotels more and more, especially with the large chains,
Speaker 13: are doing those co brands and leaning into their points
Speaker 13: program too. So the interoperability between the airline and hotel
Speaker 13: points programs and the credit card programs is a huge
Speaker 13: part of that. And then I would say the US
Speaker 13: is very far ahead. And then what we're seeing as
Speaker 13: in our business, we're doing a lot of global partnerships,
Speaker 13: so we're seeing a lot of other countries have been
Speaker 13: you know, a lot of companies in other countries have
Speaker 13: been tracking what these American credit card issuers are doing
Speaker 13: with the American travel suppliers are doing, and they want
Speaker 13: to share in some of that success too, so they're
Speaker 13: not as far ahead, but that's where we come in,
Speaker 13: and we kind of can bring them the greatest technology,
Speaker 13: the most innovative technology in the space and help them
Speaker 13: kind of achieve those results in their markets for the
Speaker 13: first time.
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