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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android Auto with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Let's bring in our global autos Zar right now. Craig

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Speaker 2: Trudell joins us out of London. He covers all the

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Speaker 2: carmakers and has around the world, but focuses in because

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Speaker 2: he also is the editor of the Hyperdrive newsletter.

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Speaker 3: On EV's and we're seeing really.

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Speaker 2: A changing, a changing c here in terms of EV demand, Craig,

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Speaker 2: certainly in the US, and that reads out well in

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Speaker 2: the drop in Tesla sales, doesn't it.

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Speaker 4: It absolutely does, I think.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was interesting earlier this week to see

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Speaker 5: Tesla come out with its own company compiled census.

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Speaker 4: For these delivery figures.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's sort of turned a lot of heads

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Speaker 5: because the average estimate that they put in in their

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Speaker 5: release was much lower than the Bloomberg compiled average estimate.

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Speaker 5: It turns out that Tesla came up short even of

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Speaker 5: their own lower.

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Speaker 4: Expectations that they pulled together.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't by much, and so we're not seeing a

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Speaker 5: huge move in the shares at least for the moment.

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Speaker 5: But we did see the company's stock price kind of

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Speaker 5: stumble in the last few sessions of the year, perhaps

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Speaker 5: in anticipation of the fact that these numbers were going

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Speaker 5: to be a bit soft.

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Speaker 6: How do what's the view out there in the marketplace

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Speaker 6: at craig about how committed Tesla is to its core

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Speaker 6: auto business visa vs. Some of the other businesses that

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Speaker 6: Tesla's involved in. That seems to have attracted Elon's real

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Speaker 6: attention and the attention to the marketplace in general.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, if we

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Speaker 5: were to sort of break down, you know, maybe use

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Speaker 5: Groc his chatbot to break down how much which he's

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Speaker 5: talking about his humanoid robot optimists versus you know, Tesla's

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Speaker 5: sort of core business, I think it would be no contests.

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Speaker 5: I mean, he does also talk quite a bit about robotaxis.

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Speaker 5: And yet in terms of execution there, you know, we

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Speaker 5: have vehicles in Austin and in the San Francisco Bay

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Speaker 5: area that are operating still with people supervising upfront. And

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Speaker 5: you know, yes, the company did do some testing towards

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Speaker 5: the very end of the year, you know, some driverless testing,

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Speaker 5: but you know that would put them years behind Weimo

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Speaker 5: on that front.

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Speaker 4: You've not seen them scale up a.

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Speaker 5: Quote unquote robotaxi business the way Weimo has now in

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Speaker 5: many cities across the US.

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Speaker 4: Craig.

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Speaker 2: We had a Bloomberg client writing in earlier with the

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Speaker 2: tongue in cheek comment about how many robots Tesla has sold.

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Speaker 2: But it's interesting, you know, the company is valued at

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Speaker 2: one and a half trillion dollars, not because it sells

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Speaker 2: one point eight million cars a year, but because investors

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Speaker 2: have faith in Elon Musk's I guess creativity and success

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Speaker 2: in future endeavors like robots.

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Speaker 3: What do we know about what else Tesla could do

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Speaker 3: to make money?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that's a really good question,

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Speaker 5: and I guess I would put that more so focus

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Speaker 5: that more so on the question of robotaxis. And I think,

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Speaker 5: you know, with Waimo, we know very little at this

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Speaker 5: juncture about you know, just how profitable Weimo's business is.

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Speaker 5: I think we can you know, make a pretty informed,

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Speaker 5: you know, assumption that they're losing quite a bit of money.

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Speaker 5: The company is regularly raising a lot of cash from

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Speaker 5: primarily from Alphabet and has knock gone public. So we've

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Speaker 5: not seen you know, what sort of figures they have internally,

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Speaker 5: but you know, I think that's one of the things

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Speaker 5: that's going to be interesting to watch play out in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty six is, you know, everybody is very excited

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Speaker 5: about robo taxis, and for good reason. It's really neat

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Speaker 5: to sit in a car with no one behind the wheel.

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Speaker 5: The question I have is, of course, you know, how

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Speaker 5: quickly can we scale that capability in a way that's

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Speaker 5: actually generating money? And I think, you know, some people

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Speaker 5: are willing to give us the benefit of the doubt,

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Speaker 5: as you mentioned, and willing to also take him at

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Speaker 5: his word that he can scale quicker, you know, sort

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Speaker 5: of over a longer time period. But in terms of

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Speaker 5: you know, here and now, who actually has cars on

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Speaker 5: the road that don't have drivers behind the human drivers

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Speaker 5: behind the wheel, Weimo is ahead of Tesla, and it's

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Speaker 5: not at all close because we've not seen Tesla actually

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Speaker 5: commercialize that.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 7: Let's talk about deep Seek. Yes, it is back in

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Speaker 7: the news.

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Speaker 8: Deep Seek is going to soon release new AIMI model

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Speaker 8: that could up end.

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Speaker 7: The sector like it did just a year ago.

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Speaker 8: The company just published a paper that outlines ways to

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Speaker 8: develop AI that improves scalability while reducing the computational and

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Speaker 8: energy demands of training the model, or so it claims to.

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Speaker 8: Let's bring in Bloomberg Tech co host ed Ludlow, who's

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Speaker 8: in San Francisco.

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Speaker 5: Ed.

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Speaker 7: Is this going to do the same thing as.

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Speaker 8: Last February when the markets are roctions or are we

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Speaker 8: sort of used to the fact now that other people

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Speaker 8: can do AI too?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it's certainly kind of a repeat of the format

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Speaker 9: that Deep seekers is kind of utized, where they publish

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Speaker 9: a white paper and the white paper or research and

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Speaker 9: it kind of explains that because of constraints on Chinese

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Speaker 9: technology companies, principally a lack of access to the lead

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Speaker 9: edge AI chips, they have to get clever from a

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Speaker 9: computer science perspective on the architectures, how a model is

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Speaker 9: weave together, how it is trained, the data it uses,

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Speaker 9: et cetera. And again they've just published a white paper

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Speaker 9: that would suggest they found another way of doing that that,

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Speaker 9: as you pointed out, it's computationally and from an energy perspective,

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Speaker 9: much more efficient. But it's often a precursor to the

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Speaker 9: release of a wider model. So what we're waiting on

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Speaker 9: is what most people refer to as deep seek are

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Speaker 9: two the kind of next large scale frontier model and

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Speaker 9: the expectations that that will come in February or March,

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Speaker 9: and depending on how it performs and ranks in the tables,

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Speaker 9: could potentially upend the kind of marketplace right now, which

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Speaker 9: includes competition with American frontier labs for models.

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Speaker 6: So if we had that deep seek news again a

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Speaker 6: year ago and it really up ended the market, yeah,

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Speaker 6: is it just me that I haven't really heard too

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Speaker 6: much about deep seek since then?

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean two things.

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Speaker 9: The first is that deep seek has continued to work

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Speaker 9: on smaller models with fewer parameters, and it takes time

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Speaker 9: to train very very large models. But kind of what

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Speaker 9: happened in the kind of eruption of February, March and

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Speaker 9: April of last year in the financial markets is when

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Speaker 9: Deep Seak started publishing its evidence and the performance of

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Speaker 9: its models and what it took to train them. Everyone

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Speaker 9: was like, well, huh, hold on a minute. It didn't

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Speaker 9: cost you guys very much. It was a lot cheaper

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Speaker 9: than what the American companies are doing, and you didn't

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Speaker 9: have access to all this technology that is propping up

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Speaker 9: the entire market, right, and so it kind of raised

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Speaker 9: the question why are we so bullish and all of

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Speaker 9: this in America's context, like all of our evidence for

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Speaker 9: this market rally or to that point, because remember, like

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Speaker 9: within video in a mag seven, this was a multi

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Speaker 9: year thing was because of all the spending and the

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Speaker 9: performance of those chips. But the present day, the way

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Speaker 9: that we compare the performance different models is peer review

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Speaker 9: and performance tables and in the kind of free, lower

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Speaker 9: cost Chinese models are up there. And so that's why

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Speaker 9: we're kind of bracing for R two and what it

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Speaker 9: might show us in terms.

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Speaker 10: Of performance ed what do we know about what chips

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Speaker 10: Deepseek is using And was there just a little bit

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Speaker 10: of skepticism that maybe Deep Sea might be using some

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Speaker 10: kind of in video chip at one point.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, there have been media reports that deep Seek and

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Speaker 9: other Chinese firms were able to get access to the

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Speaker 9: latest generation of Nvidia GPUs by acquiring them from data

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Speaker 9: centers in permitted countries, disassembling those data centers, and then

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Speaker 9: essentially smuggling them through a third country. Go on to

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Speaker 9: Bloomberg dot Com or the Terminal read the very detailed

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Speaker 9: reporting on that. There was also a lot of skepticism

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Speaker 9: about that reporting because right now in Nvidia is severely

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Speaker 9: supply constrained. Any demand that's out there accounts for all

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Speaker 9: the chips they're ever going to make, and as one

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Speaker 9: source put it to me, you don't just sort of

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Speaker 9: see thousands of black well chips go missing, such is

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Speaker 9: the demand for them. So it was something that at

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Speaker 9: the time in Vidia issued a statement straight away and said,

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Speaker 9: you don't see any evidence of sort of these missing

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Speaker 9: chips that are being smuggled through different countries. But therein

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Speaker 9: lies the point of why you're asking me about deep

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Speaker 9: Seek and it's white paper. It's what China's technology companies

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Speaker 9: are able to do without access to those chips. That

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Speaker 9: is the main focus.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 7: From January to year round moderation.

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Speaker 8: Non Alcoholic beer is booming. Bill Schufeldt is the co

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Speaker 8: founder and CEO of Athletic Brewing Company. I'm sure you've

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Speaker 8: seen those cans in the stores or perhaps your local bar.

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Speaker 8: It's one of the nation's top non alcoholic beer brands.

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Speaker 8: He joins us now in studio to talk about what's

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Speaker 8: on tap for Booseless SuDS. So, Bill, this is an

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Speaker 8: insane growth story that you've just been telling me. So

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Speaker 8: you started actually what ten years ago, and now your

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Speaker 8: ten x or the market is ten x.

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Speaker 7: Explain what you were just telling us.

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Speaker 11: For sure, it's it's been a really fun ride. We

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Speaker 11: started the non alcoholic beer market basically had flatline for

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Speaker 11: thirty years before ten years ago. Where we came in

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Speaker 11: and liked to think we reimagined both the product and

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Speaker 11: the marketing of the category, taking out of the penalty

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Speaker 11: box into the mainstream with delicious flavors, and we've taken

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Speaker 11: it as a category from about one hundred million to

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Speaker 11: passing a billion dollars in the US market this year,

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Speaker 11: and we think that could continue to grow. We expected

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Speaker 11: to five x in the next ten years, with Athletic

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Speaker 11: being twenty five percent of that market. Right now, Athletic

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Speaker 11: is about eighteen point four share the total category. The

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Speaker 11: next biggest is about fourteen and a half share, and

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Speaker 11: that it's another four point dropped to the next brand

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Speaker 11: behind that. Athletics also fifty two share of the non

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Speaker 11: al called craft beer category, which has well over one

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Speaker 11: hundred brand So we're outsiding the next one hundred plus combined.

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Speaker 11: And it's really meeting those that next generation of consumers

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Speaker 11: where they're at.

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Speaker 6: What's been the response competitive response from some of the

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Speaker 6: big brewers, which I can't even know the names now

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Speaker 6: they've all merged into one big entity, I think for sure.

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Speaker 11: So as you've heard on this segment before too, over

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Speaker 11: forty percent of consumers are doing dry January this year,

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Speaker 11: Over fifty percent of consumers now view one or two

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Speaker 11: drinks today as unhealthy, and a record low number of

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Speaker 11: Americans are also consuming alcohol on a weekly basis. So

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Speaker 11: this is a huge growth opportunity for the adult beverage market,

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Speaker 11: and a lot of companies relate to that. But over

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Speaker 11: the last five years, basically every major brand has entered

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Speaker 11: that category with an alcoholic analog to our non alcoholic

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Speaker 11: analog to their full strength version, and we really appreciate

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Speaker 11: that support and growing the category.

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Speaker 8: It's so funny to me, because I didn't have an

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Speaker 8: alcoholic beverage in my life until I was nearly thirty.

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Speaker 8: I think, and I wonder what makes somebody reach for

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Speaker 8: a non alcoholic beer when there are so many other

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Speaker 8: drinks that are already non alcoholic out there.

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Speaker 11: For sure, it's so when we start Athletic and I

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Speaker 11: would try to get people to taste samples or buy

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Speaker 11: one of our beers. Getting people to cross that barrier

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Speaker 11: was so hard seven or eight years ago. But I

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Speaker 11: think the light bulb that goes on over and over

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Speaker 11: again for people is that it is such a delicious

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Speaker 11: meal pairing at a fraction of the calories as a

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Speaker 11: full strength alcohol equivalent. For example, we were just talking

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Speaker 11: about before I came in, how our Athletic light is

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Speaker 11: twenty five calories no sugar light and carbs, but a

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Speaker 11: full taste that's like a perfect guilt free weeknight beer.

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Speaker 11: And then we brought a ton of innovation to the

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Speaker 11: market too. For example, we're now launching an excited lineup

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Speaker 11: of non alcoholic brewed cocktails this January at select retailers

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Speaker 11: like Target, and all these different fond flavored.

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Speaker 7: Like what give us a foretaste?

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Speaker 11: Yeah, so we have off that Athletic light logger. We

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Speaker 11: have an Athletic Light Limeman salt launching this year, and

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Speaker 11: in a typical year we launch almost fifty different styles

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Speaker 11: of beers on our website Athletic Brewing dot com. Where

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Speaker 11: before Athletic Brewing this category was a logger only category.

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Speaker 11: So from day one, we've really blown the lid off

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Speaker 11: what taste and availability can be in this category.

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Speaker 3: Who's typical athletic drinker customer?

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Speaker 11: So when we came into the category, this category was

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Speaker 11: typically a lapsed alcoholic drinker. It was very male heavy,

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Speaker 11: it was an older population generally, and since we've redefined

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Speaker 11: the product and marketing of the category, we've seen that

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Speaker 11: drift younger and younger every year. We think forty five

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Speaker 11: percent of our consumers are below age forty five very

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Speaker 11: heavy in gen Z consumers really, as people have grown

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Speaker 11: up in this digital generation where you have your work

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Speaker 11: in your pocket at all times, everything in your life

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Speaker 11: is filmed and recorded and on record. And people still

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Speaker 11: like to drink, but then they like to zebra stripe

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Speaker 11: and work in non alcoholic and options.

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Speaker 3: Like zebra striping. And I heard that and I forgot

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Speaker 3: it already.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, sorry, jumped right over that. It's it's basically we

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Speaker 11: And this has been shocking to me. I hear from

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Speaker 11: bartenders all the time that people order alcoholic drinks non

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Speaker 11: alcoholic alto.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, I got you.

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Speaker 7: Okay, it's a brilliant idea. You could put food in

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Speaker 7: there too, That would actually be a better idea. Curians,

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Speaker 7: how do you do it?

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Speaker 8: You have so many options and as you say, you're

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Speaker 8: trying out different ones all the time, I mean, are

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Speaker 8: you very.

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Speaker 7: Non profitable or how does it work? That costs a

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Speaker 7: lot of money?

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Speaker 11: Well, at the end of the day. In our retail lineup,

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Speaker 11: we're very focused. We have a core group of about

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Speaker 11: five beers which are very popular and highly awarded. We

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Speaker 11: won thirty three Taste Awards last year alone and have

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Speaker 11: won about one hundred and eighty five Taste Awards. Since

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Speaker 11: you know, there's there's been a plethora of entrance into

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Speaker 11: this category from major brewers to there's been ten celebrity

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Speaker 11: brands with more on the way, and almost none of

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Speaker 11: these companies make their own beer, where Athletic has gone

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Speaker 11: the other way. We invested one hundred and thirty million

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Speaker 11: into our own manufacturing, our brewing quality teams, and ultimately,

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Speaker 11: consumers like to know, they want to get the best

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Speaker 11: products and like to know what's behind their products. And

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Speaker 11: after that celebrity hype, they've really loved what they found

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Speaker 11: in that Athletic and so we really try to stay

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Speaker 11: focused in our retail lineup and bring people the best

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Speaker 11: beers over and over again.

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Speaker 6: I got to put my investment backer hat back on.

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Speaker 6: How do you capitalize your company? Always fascinate to see

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Speaker 6: how these private companies and entrepreneurial companies how they fan themselves.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, it's such an interesting Like I came from the

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Speaker 11: financial world, it's such an interesting world these days between

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Speaker 11: private and public capital. And we've been so fortunate to

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Speaker 11: have great access to private capital, from angel investors to

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Speaker 11: private equity investors like Aligance. Consumer growth in General Atlantic

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Speaker 11: and an institutional investor in Kurg Doctor Pepper, and that's

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Speaker 11: afforded us the opportunity over the past eight years to

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Speaker 11: invest one hundred and thirty million dollars into our US

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Speaker 11: manufacturing base. Non all called breweries and taperms weren't a

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Speaker 11: thing before Athletic in the country. We built the first one,

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Speaker 11: and since then we've built them that are one hundred

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Speaker 11: times the output of the original brewery on both coasts

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Speaker 11: and in that world we have found really good access

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Speaker 11: to private to capital in the private market. But ultimately

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Speaker 11: it is really exciting for us to think about potentially

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Speaker 11: being a public company or running a long term private company.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: I want to ask you more about that, but first

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Speaker 8: I have to say the marketing is brilliant because you're

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Speaker 8: you know, you're a nonancoholic brewery, but you're targeting athletes

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Speaker 8: and people who go for hikes and you know, serious

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Speaker 8: mountaineers and dog lovers and outdoors the people. I mean,

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Speaker 8: it's just it's amazing. So what is the trajectory that

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Speaker 8: you see before going public? I mean, you're going to

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Speaker 8: open breweries around the country. Are you going to have

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Speaker 8: you know, bars?

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Speaker 12: Is that?

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Speaker 8: Is that something that can be profitable now to the

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Speaker 8: bottom line, or you know, is it better to have

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Speaker 8: people just subscribe and sort of have it as a

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Speaker 8: you know, beer as a service software is Yeah.

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Speaker 11: Well, in terms of our target customer, I basically built

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Speaker 11: the target customer around my lifestyle because I was authentically

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Speaker 11: living this as a busy professional, love the outdoors. Seventy

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Speaker 11: percent of the population considers the self an athlete. Even

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Speaker 11: though you'll never find me on any podiums anywhere. I

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Speaker 11: love being out there and participate, and so it was

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Speaker 11: really about that health and wellness trend. And then yeah,

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Speaker 11: beyond that, our awareness is still very low. It's about

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Speaker 11: twenty five percent nationally, so we have and our distribution

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Speaker 11: is only about thirty nine percent with our top product,

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Speaker 11: where a lot of the major beer companies, even in

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Speaker 11: our category, even though athletics the number one, have double

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Speaker 11: our distribution. So we have a huge amount of awareness

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Speaker 11: and distribution to go over the next five ten years,

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Speaker 11: and that allows us. We also are trying to open

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Speaker 11: the aperture who to who drinks beer? Where Beer over

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Speaker 11: the past thirty years had been marketing the smaller and

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Speaker 11: smaller audiences, and so this January bringing plans to We're

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Speaker 11: working with Open Table with a big partnership to expand

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Speaker 11: into the culinary world chefs and athletes and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the blue Berg Business app. Listen on demand

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 8: For more on travel, Now, let's bring in Dakota, Smith's

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Speaker 8: co founder and president of Hopper.

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Speaker 7: Dakota, thank you so much for joining. How is business travel?

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Speaker 8: How's it come back post pandemic to the extent that

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Speaker 8: we would have liked to come back.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, Hi, nice to meet you. The good news this

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Speaker 13: travel is doing pretty well in the industry. It's mostly

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Speaker 13: fully recovered since the pandemic. Business travel is finally reaching

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Speaker 13: its pre pandemic levels and starting to grow. Visure travel

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Speaker 13: has been you know, it's surpassed the pre pandemic levels

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Speaker 13: probably in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 12: So travel travel out look is still strong.

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Speaker 13: I mean, people are still spending on travel despite any

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Speaker 13: biggering concerns, any greater economy. We just did a survey

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Speaker 13: this year and Traveler said they spent just as much

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Speaker 13: as travel on the twenty twenty five holiday season as

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Speaker 13: they did twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: For example, how are people spending? What are they doing?

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Speaker 6: Is it's still the experiences that people are looking for.

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Speaker 12: Here people are spending.

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Speaker 13: I would say there's probably one trend that is shifting

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Speaker 13: and has really accelerated post pandemic, which is people are

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Speaker 13: using their credit card and loyalty programs more and more

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Speaker 13: when they're booking travel. Obviously, that is partially to offset

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Speaker 13: the costs. Those things lower the cost. Our business has

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Speaker 13: really grown around that. For instance, we power travel rewards

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Speaker 13: and loyalty for probably about ten banks around the world,

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Speaker 13: including Capital One here in the US, other banks around

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Speaker 13: the world like Commonwealth Bank of Australia, New Bank in Brazil,

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Speaker 13: the world's largest neo bank. And we're building these like

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Speaker 13: integrated travel rewards and loyalty experiences directly on the banking

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Speaker 13: website or banking apps, so when people are using their

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Speaker 13: credit cards, they can earn and burn points and kind

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Speaker 13: of access all of these great travel products like some

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Speaker 13: of what you were showing on your screen, And that's

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Speaker 13: a trend that's just really accelerated. Something like twenty percent,

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Speaker 13: twenty five percent of online travel in the United States

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Speaker 13: now is being booked directly through a credit card loyalty

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Speaker 13: program and that's.

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Speaker 12: Just like much, much higher than it was maybe ten

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Speaker 12: years ago.

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Speaker 8: How much do the banks play into that? You mentioned

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Speaker 8: banks in Brazil and outside the United States, But how

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Speaker 8: much are customers, you know, booking their travels through banks

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Speaker 8: in the US. You said twenty five percent of travelers,

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Speaker 8: but how would you increase that figure?

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Speaker 13: Well, I think it's been growing year of year. It's

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Speaker 13: the fastest growing segment of online travel. So online travel

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Speaker 13: is growing about five to six percent year of year,

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Speaker 13: which is about two x the average GDP growth rate.

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Speaker 13: And most of that growth is actually coming through this

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Speaker 13: banking credit card loyalty segment. And there's some simple answers

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Speaker 13: and reasons for that. Fundamentally, the banks are offering really

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Speaker 13: compelling value propositions and rewards to customers that kind of

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Speaker 13: make these experiences some of the best places to book travel.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 13: So to go back to my New Bank example, in Brazil,

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Speaker 13: New Bank is offering its customers zero percent APR free

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Speaker 13: installment financing for up to twelve months for all trips

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Speaker 13: booked in new travel.

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Speaker 12: That's very compelling.

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Speaker 13: I think the average APR rate for installment financing in

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Speaker 13: Brazil is thirty five percent elsewhere.

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Speaker 12: So that's one example.

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Speaker 13: When you look at Capital one, if you have the

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Speaker 13: Adventure X card here in the United States, you can

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Speaker 13: earn ten X points when you book a hotel on

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Speaker 13: Capital and Travel that's functionally ten percent back for your

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Speaker 13: next trip. You know, that makes a difference when travel

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Speaker 13: is such a large.

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Speaker 6: Category Dakota, just in my own household. I think this

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Speaker 6: is part of this is generational. Like the extent I

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Speaker 6: go to is I have a Chase card that's branded

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Speaker 6: with United because I'm captive to United here in New York.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So that's about it.

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Speaker 6: My daughter's got twenty seven different scams going any which way.

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Speaker 6: She's got it on spa readsheet about points here, points there.

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Speaker 6: What you need to do is it a younger generation

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Speaker 6: more aggressively, I guess using point to trying to manage

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Speaker 6: and capitalize on them.

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Speaker 13: I think short and series, yes, I mean the statistics

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Speaker 13: are pretty clear. Gen Z is the generation that uses

442
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 13: loyalty programs and credit card programs to book travel at

443
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 13: the highest clip of any generation by a lot.

444
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 7: Yeah, So how are they doing that?

445
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 8: I mean, how do you keep track and all these

446
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 8: partner airlines and all these you know, alliances between different

447
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 8: airlines and so on. Does that happen in the hotel

448
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 8: industry too? And you know who ultimately benefits from all

449
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 8: of this?

450
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 13: I think ultimately the consumer benefits because it's the bank

451
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 13: is functionally funding or offsetting the costs of these trips.

452
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 13: You know, the average persons taking four trips per years.

453
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,719
Speaker 13: It's over ten percent of their total income. Humans are

454
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 13: spending on travel. So anything to make that more affordable,

455
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 13: I think just benefits the consumer. It benefits the economy,

456
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 13: benefits the local regions who are receiving the tours and

457
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 13: revenue and the tax revenue, and ultimately it benefits the suppliers,

458
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 13: right the airlines and hotels. The banks are making it

459
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 13: easier for travelers to go through their hotel and to

460
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 13: book a ticket on their airline. It is hard to

461
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 13: keep track, but I think a lot of people spreadsheet,

462
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 13: you know, can afford one or two premium credit cards.

463
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 13: You know, there's a limit to how many of those

464
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 13: you can have in your wallet. And you know, just

465
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 13: choose the best one and it's a great place to book.

466
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 3: Are the are the travel is the industry? Are they

467
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: embracing this? How do they view it? Is it? Is

468
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 3: it some way to grow their business?

469
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 13: Yes, I think in the United States is furthest along

470
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 13: of any country in the world.

471
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 12: You've seen this for years and years.

472
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: Right.

473
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 13: You can look at the earnings reports of the major

474
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 13: airlines in the US and a huge percentage of their

475
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 13: their income and especially their profit is related to their

476
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 13: loyalty program and selling the points to their co brand

477
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 13: credit card issuing partners.

478
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 12: So that that's a fundamental.

479
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 13: Part of the airline business that keeps it going, keeps

480
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 13: it profitable. Hotels more and more, especially with the large chains,

481
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 13: are doing those co brands and leaning into their points

482
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 13: program too. So the interoperability between the airline and hotel

483
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 13: points programs and the credit card programs is a huge

484
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 13: part of that. And then I would say the US

485
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 13: is very far ahead. And then what we're seeing as

486
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 13: in our business, we're doing a lot of global partnerships,

487
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 13: so we're seeing a lot of other countries have been

488
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 13: you know, a lot of companies in other countries have

489
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 13: been tracking what these American credit card issuers are doing

490
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 13: with the American travel suppliers are doing, and they want

491
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 13: to share in some of that success too, so they're

492
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 13: not as far ahead, but that's where we come in,

493
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 13: and we kind of can bring them the greatest technology,

494
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 13: the most innovative technology in the space and help them

495
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 13: kind of achieve those results in their markets for the

496
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 13: first time.

497
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,639
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498
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499
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500
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