WEBVTT - Bill Curbishley 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.240 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:17.520 My guest today is manager Bill Kurbish, Lick Bill, how 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.960 are we doing? Okay, So, how did you get the 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.560 How did I get the who? Or how did they 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:29.159 get me? Well? I got the who because in the 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.040 very early days one of my oldest pals from school 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.360 two were very early days. Put a year on it. Well, 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.720 when I was a boy, Okay, when in my early years, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.600 I went to school with two guys, Chris Stamp and 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.600 Mike Sure. Oh, I didn't know you that far back. Yeah, 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.160 we were scored together, and then we we left school. 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:54.000 We became MUDs in our teenage years. Anyway, Mike Shure 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.280 was constantly on at me about going with Oh he 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.040 was originally a lightened director for a comedian called Normal Wisdom. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:07.319 And they then got together and they they were messing 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.120 around trying to create an independent label. Okay, this was 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.640 Christap and your other friends. Yeah, and along with then 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.040 Stamp got together with Kit Lambert. So eventually Mike Share 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.319 persuaded me. He said, listen, like music has been your life. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.880 You know, we've been powered since we're at school, Come 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.880 in with us. So I went in with them. What 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.680 year was that? That was seventy, so that is the 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.520 year of the Timmy tour. In Who Live It leads 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:44.080 exactly around that period. And unfortunately it wasn't long before 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.640 I realized that both Chris and Kit we're suffering the 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:55.280 vagaries of excess drugs, different stuff, different ship. So um 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.240 I had a quick learning curve in that sense, and 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.720 I had to try and keep the ship afloat. And 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.200 we had over the that couple of years prior to 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.040 them really getting themselves in trouble, we acquired a lot 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.960 of really good artists. You know. We had Jimmy Hendrix, 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.119 he was brought to us by Chess Chandler from the Animals. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:20.720 We had Mirk bol and t Rex and thunder Clapped Nerman, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:27.280 and we were one of three small independent labels. Really 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.639 we had Trek Records. The only others were Chrysalist and 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:36.000 Charisma at that time, so it was quite innovative. And 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.519 we were dealing with Polydor PolyGram Polydor Records, which was 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.600 mainly a German company and as far as I and 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.440 R went, they didn't have much. So we did a 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.040 tape lease still with them, which enabled us to give 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.760 our artists, quite a very good royalty. But then we split. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.880 We had a profit split with the distributor, so we 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:04.280 were often running. However, um Kit and Chris died really 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.760 suffering from their excesses. And I was a little bit 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.000 naive in away because I thought that they were really 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.960 just like banging away out cocaine and bows, but they 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.520 were doing smack. And there's only it's a one way road. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.160 There's only one it takes. It takes the fire away 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:26.919 from you, you know so. And also my great pal 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.200 Mike Sure, he suffered a car crash. He was taking 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.640 some lights and stuff up to the cavern in Liverpool, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.520 which is famous of course the Beatles, and he was 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.320 in the van and he hit a patch of fog 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.480 on the motorway. He hit some fog and they found 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.560 him the other side of the motorway and as a 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:53.840 consequence of the car crash he became quadriplegic. However, he 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.720 had a great music, suns, great mind, and he continued 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.880 to work with me for several years after that, quite 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.400 an number of years, but it was left to me 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.760 in a sense to steer the ship. And at that 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.360 time as well, we were heavily heavily involved in the 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.160 making of the movie Tommy. So I would get phone 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.000 calls from Stick would Bill, can you come in and 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:21.160 see me? They're driving me fucking mad. Why what's wrong? Well? 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.159 Kit wants his money and gold bullying, and Chris I 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.560 can never find. So I helped him stitch together the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.760 the Tommy movie. I didn't really understand much about movies 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.279 in those days, so I used to go off and 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.520 pick the brains of friends of mine, you know, like 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.480 David Putnam, Sandy Leeberson who made quite a few movies, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.440 you know, a long distance runner, all those, and I 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.479 used to pick their brains. Go back, change it a 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.520 bit with Stiggy, go away, come back, change it. Eventually 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.520 we got a great deal on what we wanted and 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:57.839 we made what's a classic movie of course. Um then 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:03.440 Chris Kit unfortunately Lee suffered probably fell down the stairs 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.120 and suffered a brain hemorrhage. And Chris went off to 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.719 New York and after quite a number of years, cleaned 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.880 up his act a bit and went into counseling of 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.120 all things. So from that moment on, I was often 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.880 running on my own. Um I got a call, I 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.760 took a little small office up above Pink Floyd's office. 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.240 Steve O'Rourke, who managed them, was an old mate, old 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.440 mate of mine, and I took a small office up 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.599 above and almost I didn't have much, you know, and 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.440 I had I kept getting some calls from Pete Rudge, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.719 who at that time was with the Rolling Stones, and 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.359 he said to me, Bill, will you do? Will you 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.279 put together this tour of Europe for the Stones? You know, 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.719 you know all the promoters, you'll get us the best deals. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.920 I said, Peter, I can't, I'm too busy, nothing. And 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.280 he kept coming and in the end I got the 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.040 deal I wanted and did the did the put together 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.240 the tour for them, went out on tour with them 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.200 and Pete, who's always been a friend p Rudge and 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.360 did the Stones tour and then it all happened. Who 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:21.320 came to me and they said, you know we're we're 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.920 into litigation with Track Records. Would you manage us? I said, well, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.320 the only way we can do it if you're in litigation, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.160 you know, which I'm sad to here, but um, if 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.840 you are in litigation, the only way to do it 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.719 is to get some cash flow, and that means going 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.560 out on the road and working and getting some cash 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.680 flow because it's all going to be locked up. And 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.839 I should back track slightly, because the reason why I 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:52.600 left Trade Records and them was that after we did 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.640 the premiere of the Tommy movie in New York, we 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.719 did it in a subway in New York. I was 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:05.159 promised a percentage of that film, of the management percentage 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.000 of which I was going to split with my pal, 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.480 the boy who was paralyzed, and it was never thought. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.360 Come in. You could never get the pair of them 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.000 to sign anything laments then, I mean, they were at 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.400 war with each other. You would never find them in 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.680 the right state of mind to sign anything. And so 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.160 as a result of that, I'm gone. You know, you're 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.280 not only didn't pay me, but I was going to 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:36.800 split it with Mike Chris. He was worth us all 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.720 away through score his our pal. So you're not only 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.560 sucked me, you're sucked him. And I left and he 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.360 never thought I was going to leave, but I did. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.000 And that's that was the story. Okay, So who was 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.840 running the management company in the label after you left? 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.480 If these two guys were such druggius they weren't able 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.600 to run it. I mean Mike, sure, try it in 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.960 his own way. He tried the boy but it was 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.120 awfully difficult for him, and so it just collapsed really 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.080 And that's when they came to me the WHO and 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:08.680 I was in as I said, I was in that 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.240 little office. I was doing the stones to her and 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.080 they came to me and said, you know, would you 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.680 manage just And prior to that, because it was in 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.720 such a disarray, Daughtry had a solo album which I 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.880 went to Lambent Sam. I said, look, he's he's made 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.040 this solo album and all the songs were written by 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.360 a new young singer. Say, got a great story here, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.319 so m I said. They said, oh, we don't want 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.319 don't know, We're not going to release. I said, listen, 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.400 if you release it and it's successful, it will help 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.560 tremendously because it will help Roger's self esteem in this 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.480 whole situation because Pete was the main man, the writer, 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.679 the guitarist, he was the main man. And it was 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.280 an attempt to get some sort of democracy going, you know, 0:08:56.400 --> 0:09:00.079 and and for for Roger to feel he's for it. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:02.600 And they said, well, if you want to do it, 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.320 you can, so I said, okay, I will so I 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.679 came over to Los Angeles. In those days, m c 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.720 A was run by Artie mogul So this seventy three. Okay, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.520 Artie mogul Forest in the music business. He's now this 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.880 He's known as a legendary crook, a big gambler, show 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.120 keep going. So I came over and the people that 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.320 were running m c that m c A at that 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:35.400 time were Mike Maitland, Lu Cook, very very honest man, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:40.160 and Artie mogul So. I had three I had three albums. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.360 I had the Roger Adultery solo album, the Leo Sayer album. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.880 Adam Faith had asked me to bring and an album 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.679 by a band, a Dutch band called Golden ear Ring. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.480 Of course, so I played them the three albums. So 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.000 they said, yeah, we love for the Daultry album and 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.960 we really liked this new kid. He eventually went to warners, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.000 but we really love this new kid. I'm not sure 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.680 about the Dutch band. I said, listen, they're fantastic. Come 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.320 when are you going to be in London? So they said, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.440 oh so so time. I said, listen, they're playing the 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.199 Lyceum in the strand come see them because they're a 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.880 great life and they're all good looking guys. I didn't 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.679 tell them they were opening for somebody else. I think 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.559 it was mounting all one of those means. So comes 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.480 the night of the show at the Lyceum and they're 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.960 just ready to go on stage, and then it's clear 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.960 the theater. It's an ira I R a bomb scare. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.800 There's a bomb in the building. Everyone out. So everyone's 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.920 out and they're all in the strand and we're waiting 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.360 industry and for like maybe an hour or so to 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.680 get clearance. Eventually we get clearance, We go back in, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:58.400 earing go on stage. They played their set. There's no 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.240 one there from m c A. So I own the 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.160 next morning. I said, where the funk were you? They said, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.439 where were we? We We couldn't get anywhere near that 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.720 theater for the crowds. We want that band. They thought 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.480 the crowds were all there for them. We want that band. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.040 And so they took the album, which was an album 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:21.280 called Moonten had a huge hit on it called Radar Love, 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:26.000 and then it's a driving song and the rest is history. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.360 You know that. That's so. And Roger had a successful 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.640 album with his solo album Mud Not to the Distress 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.000 of Kit and Chris. But to the bewilderment I think, 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:43.760 and I'll never forget Lambert. I saw Lambert in New 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.320 York and he was wasn't compassment as and he said 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.760 to me, when we're going to release the Golden Earring album? 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.640 And I said, it's number five in the charts? What's 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.000 wrong with you? So it was a bit of a shambles, bob, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.880 you know, And so I went forward. Then who came 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.319 to me for management? Okay, just to go you quit 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.080 since they said they weren't going to put out the 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.400 adultry album? Were you putting it out by yourself or 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.480 as part of their bellage, part of their management? Then 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.880 the Tommy movie came along after that, and that's when 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:20.440 I quit. So all those albums came out before the time. Yeah, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.360 And coming back from New York after the premier of 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.960 the Tommy Movie was when I quit. On the plane? Okay, 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.640 So what was your first album with the who Oh ship? 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.360 Now you're asking me who by numbers? Was still the 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.120 old guys? Yeah? No, no, no, no, it was us. Okay, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.600 that's nine four, So that was it. Am Whistle did 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.200 the sleeve to it. Who by Numbers? They could have 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:44.960 been the first one, but I was with it at 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.000 the time in the studio. Through those years, I worked 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.920 with him on Quadraphenia in the studios, you know, UM, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:13:01.400 and much much later UM. I produced the movie Quadraphonia 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.320 that I constantly going on record, I'm just not stroking you. 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.240 That's the best rock movie ever. When people talk about it, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.480 that's it because it's not only Quadrophenia. It works as 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.400 a movie. I can literally tell you where I saw 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.600 it so longer, a theater in Westwood and phenomenal. Yeah, 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.400 well that do you want to jump to that now 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.240 because we can come back to Yeah, we'll go back 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.520 to it, but let's go so so yeah. So they start, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.080 they needed to tour to get cash flow, and then eventually, 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:38.520 Um the litigation was resolved, and as I said, Kit 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.880 had a bad he felt understairs. It was sad because 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.840 he came to see me like two days before that. 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.000 He wasn't in great shape, and he said, Bill, he said, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.560 you're doing a great job with them, he said, better 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:59.080 than we did together. I said, well, thanks, Kit, you know, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.959 and he wasn't in great shape. So I gave him 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.760 some money and he went away. And then two days 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:12.079 later he had the accident. Okay, going back to the lawsuit, 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.679 the word on the street is that the Who had 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.360 a terrible deal, the managers were bad with money. What 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:27.720 was the truth there? The truth was, if you're heavy, 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:33.520 heavy into addiction, one of the overriding things that envelopes 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:38.920 your life is fear, fear of not having enough money 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.840 to feed that drug addiction. And that was one of 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.360 the problems. I'm not saying that they stole money. They 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.440 thought they borrowed it, but they didn't. In the end, 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:57.240 if you're borrowing money without any real possibility of repaying it, 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.040 that's not good. And so they were raid. In some 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.240 of the other accounts we had as well, the Hendlix 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.280 account some of the other artists, it was just grab 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:12.480 it for what they needed. But with the Who, what 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.760 what is true in fact is the Who will always 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:21.600 offer promised fort of track records ten percent each as 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:26.680 or Moon Daltry Towns in which they never got. They 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.640 just didn't get it to this day, never got it 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.360 to this day. And added to that, there was some 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.760 double dipping going on because um, their commission rate was 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:46.040 really high high was it other than the colonel I 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.400 don't know. Anybody's gone beyond twenty but okay exactly, so 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:57.680 it was um they had the publishing tied up, and 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:02.320 then it was a later day the pete discovered that 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.520 everything wasn't right within his publishing the income as well, 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.320 and that was it. That was the straw. Okay, So 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.160 how did the litigation resolve? It resolved in the sense 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:21.880 that the company basically eventually went bankrupt. They had to 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.160 repay the band all of the missing royalties, so they 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.800 did on which they found very difficult because they don't 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.480 have any money because they blown the money. Usually you 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.600 can get a judgment, but you can't have any money. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.040 So what I was left to do was to renegotiate 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.680 a lot of their record deals and instead of the 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:45.040 amount that would usually go to track, you know of 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.320 profits and the overage after the artist's royalty, I made 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.360 sure it went to the WHO. So eventually, over a 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.800 long term, they got back as much, if not all, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.320 of what they were rowed. But they weren't treated well 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.440 and it was completely unnecessary. I mean, I'm talking about 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.000 the whole friend of mine from Scooter, completely unnecessary. But 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.600 I knew, Bob, I knew that I was dealing with 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.760 a different person, the one who was my pal. He 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.480 was on heroin. He was a different person, you know. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.800 And he was a good man. He had a good heart. Um, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.639 but it all gets distorted, you know, it all gets changed, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.200 and it was sad to see. Okay, before the drugs, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.720 were they good managers? They were good. I don't think 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.199 they did lack in certain areas. I mean when I 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.920 came in and started doing the touring for the band, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.160 for example, the first thing I saw was that they 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.760 were into taking a guarantee but not really really looking 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.800 at the back end. So what I did with the 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.400 band was I immediately changed that ship and I went 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.520 into the promoters and I took suffer guarantee, but I 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.200 wanted a nine deal. A lot of people give Peter 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.080 Grant credit for that. I was doing it way before Grant. Okay, 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.480 glad we're going on the record, because there were moth people. 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.480 I even I thought it was Peter Grant. No it wasn't. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.360 I was doing nineties ten deals before Grant, head Zepplin 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.040 and so Um. I was earning them a lot more money, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:27.120 a lot more money, and the band especially well Pete 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.400 says it in his book and Rogers always acknowledged that, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.440 you know. And it was a simple leap of faith 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.720 on my part because I thought ship this band is 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.359 a great, great band. They can go into overage, and 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.439 I wanted to see them get the lion's share of 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.040 that overage. And that's how I've proceeded with them, with 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:52.920 them all my life, and everything is completely and absolutely transparent. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.440 And I don't have a contract. Okay, let's got the 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.320 Egypt in America was Frank Barcelona, he was it was 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.159 Frank in Premier and who was in Europe? We were 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.600 great friends. We didn't have an agent in Europe. Initially 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:14.640 they put it again through their agency New Action. I 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.000 did it and in those days I used to do it. Oh, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:18.760 I used to go I used to book them out 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.400 in Europe. I used to go out with him on tour. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:27.400 I was met tour manager, accountant, the whole, the whole bundle. 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.840 So I used to settle after shows and do it all. 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.320 Let's talk about that now. This was the days when 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.040 you get paid in cash, right, because a lot of 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.719 it was because you didn't trust the promoter, didn't trust them. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.600 I would want the I'd want the advance against the 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.880 guarantee into our account before we ever went and then 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.320 the balance in cash. Okay, so tell us some stories 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.920 about trying to collect the back end. I can honestly 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:02.360 say I never ever had a problem collecting that back end. Okay. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.440 So that's one good thing. They at least had the money. 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.920 But I have been in the offices of promoters. Weren't 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.600 seen the two sets of books. They're said in the 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.159 set they show to the acts. So how do you know? 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.399 You know everybody stealing from everybody in this business, So 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.560 how did you deal with that? Well, one of the 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.960 things I've always said is I've always had a photober 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.600 figures really, and so I was very quick to be 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:31.240 able to do deals on foot on the bounce. But 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.480 also I would on a lot of those shows, I 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.639 would click people in and they have people on the 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.120 doors clicking them in. And in some instances I found 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.720 extra extra rose. In Germany, for example, I found extra rose. 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.879 You know, there was p and then instead of like 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:56.280 there was m N O P q Q. So you know, 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.719 got once they knew that you were into it, they 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.240 they stopped all that ship, you know. And ironically, when 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:09.520 I was doing when I made that shift um and 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.800 doing when ruddering me about doing the Stones to her, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.720 you know, of Europe. I think that also set a 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.879 bit of a standard for me, because in my opinion, 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.679 I did some great deals for them, and I don't know. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.639 I think the Stones were in a similar situation in 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.600 those days. It was early early days, that's as you know. 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.840 And some of those contracts and some of the promoters 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:38.359 were like give them the advance and ripped them. And 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.120 you have to be very careful. You have to look 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.600 at what the rule rent was on the hall, and 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.719 I used to go through it forensically. I wanted to 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.280 know how much a faultlift cast everything, because I was 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.560 my my aim. It was really to get this band 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.160 what I felt they deserved. And I guess if I'm 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:03.480 proud of anything, it's Townsend said in his book, from 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.840 the moment I took over, he was never in need 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:12.440 of money. It's their money. Without them, I wouldn't be here. 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.280 You wouldn't be here, that's for sure. It's the artist 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.919 comes first. I couldn't agree. What why is it called Trinifold? 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.199 It was the company I just picked off the shelf, 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.359 no other reason. I had a young accountant at that time. 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:30.000 I said I need to start a management company. He said, well, 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.000 he just took a company off the shelf four hundred 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.160 pounds and it was Trinifold. He's got no meaning. Okay, 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.800 let's go back to the beginning. So you're born where 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.240 I was born in London, in the East end of London, 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.280 in West Ham. Okay, So what was it like growing 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.720 up there? Ah? It was great. I mean it was 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.000 the East end of London. My father worked in the docks. 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.320 What do you do there? Well, my father was during 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.280 the Second World War. He was a chief injury near 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:04.920 on a submarine base in Salon and they called them 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.200 chief engineer artifica. Anyway, he came back after the Second 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.239 World War went into the docks and he was a 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.680 marine engineer in the docks. So it was ship repairs 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.600 and that's where we lived, around the docks. And then 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.400 your mother worked outside the home. She did um and 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.920 she sent me to school when I was four instead 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.800 of five so she could go to work. And she 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:34.320 did what she worked in various She was assistant cook, 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:37.879 she worked in a button factory. She did anything to 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.959 keep us alive. And I was say embarrassed later in 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.639 life because she altered my birth certificate to get me 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:50.160 into school, and you can't change a two into a one, 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.119 and it looked like there was a fucking hole in 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:56.639 the paper. So I passed what they had then the 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.919 day the scholarship in England called the eleven plant that 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.639 then if you pass that allowed you to go onto 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.679 a much more elite school, a grammar school or a 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.200 technical school or whatever. So I passed that at ten 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.840 instead of eleven. So when I had to go to 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:15.000 register to the school, I had to take this birth 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.160 certificate with me. A man, was I embarrassed? I mean, 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:20.800 you could see through it. I went down, I was 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.800 dreading it and they didn't even look at the So 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:26.679 so I went through school, all the way through school, 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:31.560 a year younger then I really should have been. Okay, So, 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.800 how many kids in the family? Six? And where are 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:38.680 you in the hierarchy? The oldest? You're the oldest. How 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:43.280 much older are you than the youngest? Uh? The youngest Paul, 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.399 here's eighteen years younger than me. Okay, what's your relationship 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.399 with the other five? Fantastic a live No one of 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:55.520 them is not the boy my brother who was the 0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:00.399 next one down to me, Alfie. He sadly died like 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.640 ten years ago. Um, he was the next one down 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:07.120 to me. He was great. He was a good heavyweight boxer. 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:10.840 He was good. Then I had two sisters. One now 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:14.600 lives in New Zealand, then my other sisters still lives 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.800