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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is manager Bill Kurbish, Lick Bill, how

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Speaker 1: are we doing? Okay, So, how did you get the

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Speaker 1: How did I get the who? Or how did they

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Speaker 1: get me? Well? I got the who because in the

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Speaker 1: very early days one of my oldest pals from school

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Speaker 1: two were very early days. Put a year on it. Well,

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Speaker 1: when I was a boy, Okay, when in my early years,

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Speaker 1: I went to school with two guys, Chris Stamp and

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Speaker 1: Mike Sure. Oh, I didn't know you that far back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were scored together, and then we we left school.

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Speaker 1: We became MUDs in our teenage years. Anyway, Mike Shure

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Speaker 1: was constantly on at me about going with Oh he

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Speaker 1: was originally a lightened director for a comedian called Normal Wisdom.

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Speaker 1: And they then got together and they they were messing

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Speaker 1: around trying to create an independent label. Okay, this was

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Speaker 1: Christap and your other friends. Yeah, and along with then

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Speaker 1: Stamp got together with Kit Lambert. So eventually Mike Share

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Speaker 1: persuaded me. He said, listen, like music has been your life.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've been powered since we're at school, Come

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Speaker 1: in with us. So I went in with them. What

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Speaker 1: year was that? That was seventy, so that is the

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Speaker 1: year of the Timmy tour. In Who Live It leads

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Speaker 1: exactly around that period. And unfortunately it wasn't long before

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Speaker 1: I realized that both Chris and Kit we're suffering the

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Speaker 1: vagaries of excess drugs, different stuff, different ship. So um

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Speaker 1: I had a quick learning curve in that sense, and

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Speaker 1: I had to try and keep the ship afloat. And

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Speaker 1: we had over the that couple of years prior to

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Speaker 1: them really getting themselves in trouble, we acquired a lot

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Speaker 1: of really good artists. You know. We had Jimmy Hendrix,

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Speaker 1: he was brought to us by Chess Chandler from the Animals.

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Speaker 1: We had Mirk bol and t Rex and thunder Clapped Nerman,

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Speaker 1: and we were one of three small independent labels. Really

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Speaker 1: we had Trek Records. The only others were Chrysalist and

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Speaker 1: Charisma at that time, so it was quite innovative. And

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Speaker 1: we were dealing with Polydor PolyGram Polydor Records, which was

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Speaker 1: mainly a German company and as far as I and

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Speaker 1: R went, they didn't have much. So we did a

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Speaker 1: tape lease still with them, which enabled us to give

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Speaker 1: our artists, quite a very good royalty. But then we split.

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Speaker 1: We had a profit split with the distributor, so we

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Speaker 1: were often running. However, um Kit and Chris died really

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Speaker 1: suffering from their excesses. And I was a little bit

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Speaker 1: naive in away because I thought that they were really

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Speaker 1: just like banging away out cocaine and bows, but they

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Speaker 1: were doing smack. And there's only it's a one way road.

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Speaker 1: There's only one it takes. It takes the fire away

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Speaker 1: from you, you know so. And also my great pal

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Speaker 1: Mike Sure, he suffered a car crash. He was taking

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Speaker 1: some lights and stuff up to the cavern in Liverpool,

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Speaker 1: which is famous of course the Beatles, and he was

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Speaker 1: in the van and he hit a patch of fog

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Speaker 1: on the motorway. He hit some fog and they found

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Speaker 1: him the other side of the motorway and as a

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Speaker 1: consequence of the car crash he became quadriplegic. However, he

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Speaker 1: had a great music, suns, great mind, and he continued

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Speaker 1: to work with me for several years after that, quite

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Speaker 1: an number of years, but it was left to me

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Speaker 1: in a sense to steer the ship. And at that

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Speaker 1: time as well, we were heavily heavily involved in the

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Speaker 1: making of the movie Tommy. So I would get phone

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Speaker 1: calls from Stick would Bill, can you come in and

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Speaker 1: see me? They're driving me fucking mad. Why what's wrong? Well?

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Speaker 1: Kit wants his money and gold bullying, and Chris I

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Speaker 1: can never find. So I helped him stitch together the

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Speaker 1: the Tommy movie. I didn't really understand much about movies

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Speaker 1: in those days, so I used to go off and

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Speaker 1: pick the brains of friends of mine, you know, like

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Speaker 1: David Putnam, Sandy Leeberson who made quite a few movies,

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Speaker 1: you know, a long distance runner, all those, and I

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Speaker 1: used to pick their brains. Go back, change it a

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Speaker 1: bit with Stiggy, go away, come back, change it. Eventually

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Speaker 1: we got a great deal on what we wanted and

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Speaker 1: we made what's a classic movie of course. Um then

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Speaker 1: Chris Kit unfortunately Lee suffered probably fell down the stairs

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Speaker 1: and suffered a brain hemorrhage. And Chris went off to

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Speaker 1: New York and after quite a number of years, cleaned

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Speaker 1: up his act a bit and went into counseling of

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Speaker 1: all things. So from that moment on, I was often

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Speaker 1: running on my own. Um I got a call, I

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Speaker 1: took a little small office up above Pink Floyd's office.

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Speaker 1: Steve O'Rourke, who managed them, was an old mate, old

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Speaker 1: mate of mine, and I took a small office up

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Speaker 1: above and almost I didn't have much, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I had I kept getting some calls from Pete Rudge,

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Speaker 1: who at that time was with the Rolling Stones, and

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Speaker 1: he said to me, Bill, will you do? Will you

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Speaker 1: put together this tour of Europe for the Stones? You know,

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Speaker 1: you know all the promoters, you'll get us the best deals.

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Speaker 1: I said, Peter, I can't, I'm too busy, nothing. And

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Speaker 1: he kept coming and in the end I got the

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Speaker 1: deal I wanted and did the did the put together

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Speaker 1: the tour for them, went out on tour with them

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Speaker 1: and Pete, who's always been a friend p Rudge and

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Speaker 1: did the Stones tour and then it all happened. Who

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Speaker 1: came to me and they said, you know we're we're

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Speaker 1: into litigation with Track Records. Would you manage us? I said, well,

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Speaker 1: the only way we can do it if you're in litigation,

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Speaker 1: you know, which I'm sad to here, but um, if

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Speaker 1: you are in litigation, the only way to do it

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Speaker 1: is to get some cash flow, and that means going

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Speaker 1: out on the road and working and getting some cash

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Speaker 1: flow because it's all going to be locked up. And

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Speaker 1: I should back track slightly, because the reason why I

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Speaker 1: left Trade Records and them was that after we did

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Speaker 1: the premiere of the Tommy movie in New York, we

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Speaker 1: did it in a subway in New York. I was

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Speaker 1: promised a percentage of that film, of the management percentage

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Speaker 1: of which I was going to split with my pal,

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Speaker 1: the boy who was paralyzed, and it was never thought.

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Speaker 1: Come in. You could never get the pair of them

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Speaker 1: to sign anything laments then, I mean, they were at

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Speaker 1: war with each other. You would never find them in

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Speaker 1: the right state of mind to sign anything. And so

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Speaker 1: as a result of that, I'm gone. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: not only didn't pay me, but I was going to

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Speaker 1: split it with Mike Chris. He was worth us all

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Speaker 1: away through score his our pal. So you're not only

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Speaker 1: sucked me, you're sucked him. And I left and he

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Speaker 1: never thought I was going to leave, but I did.

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Speaker 1: And that's that was the story. Okay, So who was

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Speaker 1: running the management company in the label after you left?

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Speaker 1: If these two guys were such druggius they weren't able

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Speaker 1: to run it. I mean Mike, sure, try it in

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Speaker 1: his own way. He tried the boy but it was

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Speaker 1: awfully difficult for him, and so it just collapsed really

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Speaker 1: And that's when they came to me the WHO and

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Speaker 1: I was in as I said, I was in that

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Speaker 1: little office. I was doing the stones to her and

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Speaker 1: they came to me and said, you know, would you

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Speaker 1: manage just And prior to that, because it was in

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Speaker 1: such a disarray, Daughtry had a solo album which I

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Speaker 1: went to Lambent Sam. I said, look, he's he's made

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Speaker 1: this solo album and all the songs were written by

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Speaker 1: a new young singer. Say, got a great story here,

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Speaker 1: so m I said. They said, oh, we don't want

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Speaker 1: don't know, We're not going to release. I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: if you release it and it's successful, it will help

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Speaker 1: tremendously because it will help Roger's self esteem in this

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Speaker 1: whole situation because Pete was the main man, the writer,

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Speaker 1: the guitarist, he was the main man. And it was

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Speaker 1: an attempt to get some sort of democracy going, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and for for Roger to feel he's for it.

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Speaker 1: And they said, well, if you want to do it,

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Speaker 1: you can, so I said, okay, I will so I

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Speaker 1: came over to Los Angeles. In those days, m c

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Speaker 1: A was run by Artie mogul So this seventy three. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Artie mogul Forest in the music business. He's now this

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Speaker 1: He's known as a legendary crook, a big gambler, show

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Speaker 1: keep going. So I came over and the people that

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Speaker 1: were running m c that m c A at that

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Speaker 1: time were Mike Maitland, Lu Cook, very very honest man,

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Speaker 1: and Artie mogul So. I had three I had three albums.

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Speaker 1: I had the Roger Adultery solo album, the Leo Sayer album.

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Speaker 1: Adam Faith had asked me to bring and an album

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Speaker 1: by a band, a Dutch band called Golden ear Ring.

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Speaker 1: Of course, so I played them the three albums. So

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Speaker 1: they said, yeah, we love for the Daultry album and

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Speaker 1: we really liked this new kid. He eventually went to warners,

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Speaker 1: but we really love this new kid. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: about the Dutch band. I said, listen, they're fantastic. Come

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Speaker 1: when are you going to be in London? So they said,

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Speaker 1: oh so so time. I said, listen, they're playing the

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Speaker 1: Lyceum in the strand come see them because they're a

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Speaker 1: great life and they're all good looking guys. I didn't

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Speaker 1: tell them they were opening for somebody else. I think

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Speaker 1: it was mounting all one of those means. So comes

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Speaker 1: the night of the show at the Lyceum and they're

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Speaker 1: just ready to go on stage, and then it's clear

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Speaker 1: the theater. It's an ira I R a bomb scare.

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Speaker 1: There's a bomb in the building. Everyone out. So everyone's

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Speaker 1: out and they're all in the strand and we're waiting

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Speaker 1: industry and for like maybe an hour or so to

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Speaker 1: get clearance. Eventually we get clearance, We go back in,

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Speaker 1: earing go on stage. They played their set. There's no

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Speaker 1: one there from m c A. So I own the

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Speaker 1: next morning. I said, where the funk were you? They said,

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Speaker 1: where were we? We We couldn't get anywhere near that

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Speaker 1: theater for the crowds. We want that band. They thought

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Speaker 1: the crowds were all there for them. We want that band.

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Speaker 1: And so they took the album, which was an album

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Speaker 1: called Moonten had a huge hit on it called Radar Love,

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Speaker 1: and then it's a driving song and the rest is history.

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Speaker 1: You know that. That's so. And Roger had a successful

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Speaker 1: album with his solo album Mud Not to the Distress

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Speaker 1: of Kit and Chris. But to the bewilderment I think,

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget Lambert. I saw Lambert in New

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Speaker 1: York and he was wasn't compassment as and he said

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Speaker 1: to me, when we're going to release the Golden Earring album?

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Speaker 1: And I said, it's number five in the charts? What's

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Speaker 1: wrong with you? So it was a bit of a shambles, bob,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so I went forward. Then who came

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Speaker 1: to me for management? Okay, just to go you quit

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Speaker 1: since they said they weren't going to put out the

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Speaker 1: adultry album? Were you putting it out by yourself or

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Speaker 1: as part of their bellage, part of their management? Then

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Speaker 1: the Tommy movie came along after that, and that's when

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Speaker 1: I quit. So all those albums came out before the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And coming back from New York after the premier of

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Speaker 1: the Tommy Movie was when I quit. On the plane? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what was your first album with the who Oh ship?

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Speaker 1: Now you're asking me who by numbers? Was still the

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Speaker 1: old guys? Yeah? No, no, no, no, it was us. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's nine four, So that was it. Am Whistle did

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Speaker 1: the sleeve to it. Who by Numbers? They could have

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Speaker 1: been the first one, but I was with it at

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Speaker 1: the time in the studio. Through those years, I worked

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Speaker 1: with him on Quadraphenia in the studios, you know, UM,

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Speaker 1: and much much later UM. I produced the movie Quadraphonia

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Speaker 1: that I constantly going on record, I'm just not stroking you.

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Speaker 1: That's the best rock movie ever. When people talk about it,

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Speaker 1: that's it because it's not only Quadrophenia. It works as

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Speaker 1: a movie. I can literally tell you where I saw

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Speaker 1: it so longer, a theater in Westwood and phenomenal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that do you want to jump to that now

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Speaker 1: because we can come back to Yeah, we'll go back

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Speaker 1: to it, but let's go so so yeah. So they start,

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Speaker 1: they needed to tour to get cash flow, and then eventually,

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Speaker 1: Um the litigation was resolved, and as I said, Kit

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Speaker 1: had a bad he felt understairs. It was sad because

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Speaker 1: he came to see me like two days before that.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't in great shape, and he said, Bill, he said,

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Speaker 1: you're doing a great job with them, he said, better

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Speaker 1: than we did together. I said, well, thanks, Kit, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't in great shape. So I gave him

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Speaker 1: some money and he went away. And then two days

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Speaker 1: later he had the accident. Okay, going back to the lawsuit,

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Speaker 1: the word on the street is that the Who had

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Speaker 1: a terrible deal, the managers were bad with money. What

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Speaker 1: was the truth there? The truth was, if you're heavy,

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Speaker 1: heavy into addiction, one of the overriding things that envelopes

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Speaker 1: your life is fear, fear of not having enough money

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Speaker 1: to feed that drug addiction. And that was one of

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Speaker 1: the problems. I'm not saying that they stole money. They

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Speaker 1: thought they borrowed it, but they didn't. In the end,

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Speaker 1: if you're borrowing money without any real possibility of repaying it,

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Speaker 1: that's not good. And so they were raid. In some

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Speaker 1: of the other accounts we had as well, the Hendlix

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Speaker 1: account some of the other artists, it was just grab

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Speaker 1: it for what they needed. But with the Who, what

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Speaker 1: what is true in fact is the Who will always

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Speaker 1: offer promised fort of track records ten percent each as

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Speaker 1: or Moon Daltry Towns in which they never got. They

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Speaker 1: just didn't get it to this day, never got it

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Speaker 1: to this day. And added to that, there was some

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Speaker 1: double dipping going on because um, their commission rate was

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Speaker 1: really high high was it other than the colonel I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Anybody's gone beyond twenty but okay exactly, so

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Speaker 1: it was um they had the publishing tied up, and

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Speaker 1: then it was a later day the pete discovered that

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Speaker 1: everything wasn't right within his publishing the income as well,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. That was the straw. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: how did the litigation resolve? It resolved in the sense

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Speaker 1: that the company basically eventually went bankrupt. They had to

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Speaker 1: repay the band all of the missing royalties, so they

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Speaker 1: did on which they found very difficult because they don't

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Speaker 1: have any money because they blown the money. Usually you

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Speaker 1: can get a judgment, but you can't have any money.

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Speaker 1: So what I was left to do was to renegotiate

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Speaker 1: a lot of their record deals and instead of the

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Speaker 1: amount that would usually go to track, you know of

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Speaker 1: profits and the overage after the artist's royalty, I made

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Speaker 1: sure it went to the WHO. So eventually, over a

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Speaker 1: long term, they got back as much, if not all,

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Speaker 1: of what they were rowed. But they weren't treated well

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Speaker 1: and it was completely unnecessary. I mean, I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: the whole friend of mine from Scooter, completely unnecessary. But

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Speaker 1: I knew, Bob, I knew that I was dealing with

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Speaker 1: a different person, the one who was my pal. He

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Speaker 1: was on heroin. He was a different person, you know.

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Speaker 1: And he was a good man. He had a good heart. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it all gets distorted, you know, it all gets changed,

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Speaker 1: and it was sad to see. Okay, before the drugs,

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Speaker 1: were they good managers? They were good. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they did lack in certain areas. I mean when I

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Speaker 1: came in and started doing the touring for the band,

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Speaker 1: for example, the first thing I saw was that they

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Speaker 1: were into taking a guarantee but not really really looking

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Speaker 1: at the back end. So what I did with the

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Speaker 1: band was I immediately changed that ship and I went

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Speaker 1: into the promoters and I took suffer guarantee, but I

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Speaker 1: wanted a nine deal. A lot of people give Peter

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Speaker 1: Grant credit for that. I was doing it way before Grant. Okay,

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Speaker 1: glad we're going on the record, because there were moth people.

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Speaker 1: I even I thought it was Peter Grant. No it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I was doing nineties ten deals before Grant, head Zepplin

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Speaker 1: and so Um. I was earning them a lot more money,

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Speaker 1: a lot more money, and the band especially well Pete

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Speaker 1: says it in his book and Rogers always acknowledged that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it was a simple leap of faith

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Speaker 1: on my part because I thought ship this band is

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Speaker 1: a great, great band. They can go into overage, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see them get the lion's share of

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Speaker 1: that overage. And that's how I've proceeded with them, with

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Speaker 1: them all my life, and everything is completely and absolutely transparent.

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Speaker 1: And I don't have a contract. Okay, let's got the

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Speaker 1: Egypt in America was Frank Barcelona, he was it was

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Speaker 1: Frank in Premier and who was in Europe? We were

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Speaker 1: great friends. We didn't have an agent in Europe. Initially

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Speaker 1: they put it again through their agency New Action. I

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Speaker 1: did it and in those days I used to do it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I used to go I used to book them out

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Speaker 1: in Europe. I used to go out with him on tour.

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Speaker 1: I was met tour manager, accountant, the whole, the whole bundle.

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Speaker 1: So I used to settle after shows and do it all.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that now. This was the days when

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Speaker 1: you get paid in cash, right, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: it was because you didn't trust the promoter, didn't trust them.

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Speaker 1: I would want the I'd want the advance against the

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Speaker 1: guarantee into our account before we ever went and then

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Speaker 1: the balance in cash. Okay, so tell us some stories

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Speaker 1: about trying to collect the back end. I can honestly

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Speaker 1: say I never ever had a problem collecting that back end. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that's one good thing. They at least had the money.

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Speaker 1: But I have been in the offices of promoters. Weren't

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Speaker 1: seen the two sets of books. They're said in the

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Speaker 1: set they show to the acts. So how do you know?

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Speaker 1: You know everybody stealing from everybody in this business, So

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Speaker 1: how did you deal with that? Well, one of the

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Speaker 1: things I've always said is I've always had a photober

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Speaker 1: figures really, and so I was very quick to be

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Speaker 1: able to do deals on foot on the bounce. But

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Speaker 1: also I would on a lot of those shows, I

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Speaker 1: would click people in and they have people on the

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Speaker 1: doors clicking them in. And in some instances I found

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Speaker 1: extra extra rose. In Germany, for example, I found extra rose.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was p and then instead of like

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Speaker 1: there was m N O P q Q. So you know,

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Speaker 1: got once they knew that you were into it, they

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Speaker 1: they stopped all that ship, you know. And ironically, when

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Speaker 1: I was doing when I made that shift um and

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Speaker 1: doing when ruddering me about doing the Stones to her,

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Speaker 1: you know, of Europe. I think that also set a

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Speaker 1: bit of a standard for me, because in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: I did some great deals for them, and I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think the Stones were in a similar situation in

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Speaker 1: those days. It was early early days, that's as you know.

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Speaker 1: And some of those contracts and some of the promoters

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Speaker 1: were like give them the advance and ripped them. And

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Speaker 1: you have to be very careful. You have to look

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Speaker 1: at what the rule rent was on the hall, and

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Speaker 1: I used to go through it forensically. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: know how much a faultlift cast everything, because I was

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Speaker 1: my my aim. It was really to get this band

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Speaker 1: what I felt they deserved. And I guess if I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of anything, it's Townsend said in his book, from

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Speaker 1: the moment I took over, he was never in need

349
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Speaker 1: of money. It's their money. Without them, I wouldn't be here.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't be here, that's for sure. It's the artist

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Speaker 1: comes first. I couldn't agree. What why is it called Trinifold?

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Speaker 1: It was the company I just picked off the shelf,

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Speaker 1: no other reason. I had a young accountant at that time.

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Speaker 1: I said I need to start a management company. He said, well,

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Speaker 1: he just took a company off the shelf four hundred

356
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Speaker 1: pounds and it was Trinifold. He's got no meaning. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. So you're born where

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Speaker 1: I was born in London, in the East end of London,

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Speaker 1: in West Ham. Okay, So what was it like growing

360
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Speaker 1: up there? Ah? It was great. I mean it was

361
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Speaker 1: the East end of London. My father worked in the docks.

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Speaker 1: What do you do there? Well, my father was during

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Speaker 1: the Second World War. He was a chief injury near

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Speaker 1: on a submarine base in Salon and they called them

365
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Speaker 1: chief engineer artifica. Anyway, he came back after the Second

366
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Speaker 1: World War went into the docks and he was a

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Speaker 1: marine engineer in the docks. So it was ship repairs

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Speaker 1: and that's where we lived, around the docks. And then

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Speaker 1: your mother worked outside the home. She did um and

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Speaker 1: she sent me to school when I was four instead

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Speaker 1: of five so she could go to work. And she

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Speaker 1: did what she worked in various She was assistant cook,

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Speaker 1: she worked in a button factory. She did anything to

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Speaker 1: keep us alive. And I was say embarrassed later in

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Speaker 1: life because she altered my birth certificate to get me

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Speaker 1: into school, and you can't change a two into a one,

377
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Speaker 1: and it looked like there was a fucking hole in

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Speaker 1: the paper. So I passed what they had then the

379
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Speaker 1: day the scholarship in England called the eleven plant that

380
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: then if you pass that allowed you to go onto

381
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Speaker 1: a much more elite school, a grammar school or a

382
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: technical school or whatever. So I passed that at ten

383
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Speaker 1: instead of eleven. So when I had to go to

384
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Speaker 1: register to the school, I had to take this birth

385
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Speaker 1: certificate with me. A man, was I embarrassed? I mean,

386
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Speaker 1: you could see through it. I went down, I was

387
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Speaker 1: dreading it and they didn't even look at the So

388
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Speaker 1: so I went through school, all the way through school,

389
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Speaker 1: a year younger then I really should have been. Okay, So,

390
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Speaker 1: how many kids in the family? Six? And where are

391
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Speaker 1: you in the hierarchy? The oldest? You're the oldest. How

392
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Speaker 1: much older are you than the youngest? Uh? The youngest Paul,

393
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Speaker 1: here's eighteen years younger than me. Okay, what's your relationship

394
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Speaker 1: with the other five? Fantastic a live No one of

395
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Speaker 1: them is not the boy my brother who was the

396
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Speaker 1: next one down to me, Alfie. He sadly died like

397
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: ten years ago. Um, he was the next one down

398
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: to me. He was great. He was a good heavyweight boxer.

399
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: He was good. Then I had two sisters. One now

400
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: lives in New Zealand, then my other sisters still lives

401
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: in London. And then the two youngest brothers both were

402
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Speaker 1: soccer players, I have to say soccer soccer players. They

403
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: both played at west Ham, but one of them became

404
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: much much more famous than the other one. And so

405
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: the elder of those two Alan, he's sixteen years younger

406
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Speaker 1: than me. He had his first proper game in the

407
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: Premier League when he was sixteen and he played in

408
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: the England World Cup when he was fourteen. He was

409
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Speaker 1: a very great player and he's known very well in England.

410
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Speaker 1: He had he had nineteen years as a player, played

411
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Speaker 1: for west Ham. He played for West and Villa, Birmingham

412
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Speaker 1: Great Teams and Brighton and then he ended up at

413
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: a club Charlton, which was in the Second at the

414
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: end of his playing career Second Division, and he became

415
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Speaker 1: the coach there and took them up into the Premiership.

416
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Speaker 1: And he had nineteen years as a manager and he's

417
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Speaker 1: now a man of leisure. Now he's a pundit. But

418
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Speaker 1: the other thing about it, when he became a star,

419
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: salaries were much lower. Oh yeah, he he was top

420
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Speaker 1: of the tree as a player, and I guess he

421
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Speaker 1: was making then three hundred pounds five hundred dollars a week.

422
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Speaker 1: By the time he became a manager, he was making

423
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Speaker 1: two or three million a year. So he ended up

424
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Speaker 1: being in the game long enough to his rewards. And

425
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: his kids are growing up now and he was constantly

426
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: being poached at one time to be the national manager

427
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, um, And he said, well at the moment now,

428
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: the way it is, he said, there's four or five

429
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: teams with money all the rest want you to work

430
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: a miracle. He said, I've had like thirty eight years

431
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: of it. I'm chilled. And he goes and does quite

432
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: a bit of punditry from um. He goes to Qatar

433
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: and does it for around. I mean, you might see

434
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: him over so we were in America, we'd see it's

435
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: a broadcaster a college. Yeah, he's a pandit and a

436
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: broadcaster for the Premier League. And a lot of it

437
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: comes over here because it goes everywhere but the UK.

438
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: So I know lots of friends in America have seen

439
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: him pontificating after certain soccer slash woodball is getting bigger

440
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: and bigger. If Army Arsan was alive, it'd turn over

441
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: in his grave. I went to the World Cup with

442
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,479
Speaker 1: Armored and Nessuy Hurtrican because Armored they were both manic. Well,

443
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: they brought the broad Pellade in New York exactly for

444
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: the Cosmos. And I went to the World Cup with

445
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: the pair of them, and we went down to Barcelona

446
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: for the semifinals and then into Madrid for the finals,

447
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, and he was always and then he started

448
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: the Cosmos, and people thought, well, what's he doing. What

449
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: they didn't realize was that with the complete ethnic mixture

450
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: in America, you know, you had a sport there that

451
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: was appealing to them, whether they be Latin, American, Greek, this,

452
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: that Italian. But more to the point, it was a

453
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: sport that you had to be normal, normal higher. You

454
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: didn't have to be three hundred pounds, you didn't have

455
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: to be seven ft tall like basketball. It was for

456
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: normal size. So that's why it took off right me

457
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: out on the street. So going back to your five siblings,

458
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: did any of them ever work for you, well, my

459
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: younger brother. They did actually, but I only sold that.

460
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: I did a huge show in the football stadium in London,

461
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: and I had my brother, the one who who's deceased

462
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: healthy and the one Alan who was the soccer player.

463
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: They were selling programs and merchandise for me. And then

464
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: it was four or five weeks after that that he

465
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: got his first game, my brother for West Ham Um

466
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: and they played Newcastle and he scored the first goal

467
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: sixteen years of age, and he made the winner. And

468
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: that night they said on TV a star was born today.

469
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: Of course you would never come to work for me

470
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: again after course, after that. Okay, So you were a

471
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: good student. Yeah, I was a good student. I was

472
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,239
Speaker 1: unruly and and disciplined, but I found a lot of

473
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: it easy. Okay. So you went to school and you

474
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: finished what we call high school here and then and

475
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: he thought of getting any more education, or you said

476
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm not going to school anymore. No, I

477
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: didn't know. I'm done. I had to get get out

478
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: and get a living. We were a very poor family.

479
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: We lived in a very poor area and it was

480
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: necessary to go to work, you know. So that's what

481
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: I did. Your whole you're seventeen and you're going to work. Well, yeah,

482
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be seventeen, but I was really sixty,

483
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: and so for me it was work. And then I

484
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: went in of all things, I went into this boy

485
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: Mike sure I'm telling you about who was paralyzed. We

486
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: both decided we wanted to go in the merchant Navy.

487
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: We wanted to see a bit of the world, and

488
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: our plans were disrupted a little bit by the fact

489
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: that we had to go on different boats. So the

490
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: first time I ever came to America was as a

491
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: emergency seamen. When was that, oh funk that I was?

492
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: That was fifty nine, Okay, fifty nine, I was seventeen. Okay,

493
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: let's go. How long were you a merchant seamen? I

494
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: did one long five and a half months trip, which

495
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: took seven months because every time I got somewhere good,

496
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: I jumped right and I was what you would call

497
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: a distressed British seman. Okay, what did you actually do

498
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: on the boat? A mixture of things. I was originally

499
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: what you would call a comy waiter, but after that

500
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't much else. I mean, I was scrubbing stuff. Um,

501
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: look picking up ship, you know it was it sounds

502
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: like hard work. It was hard work. Okay. So the

503
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: first time he came to New York, do you were

504
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: just on the border. You got to experience New York. No,

505
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying to you. I came New York.

506
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: You have a few days off. I got to Los

507
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: Angeles show days off. The big slap was from Los

508
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Angeles to Tokyo. That was heavy. I remember it was

509
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: really heavy. Seas Um. I didn't come back to the

510
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: ship in Tokyo. I hooked up with a girl there

511
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: in Japan, and I was there for a week or two,

512
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: picked up another boat, and that's when I was classed

513
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: as a distressed British seman um. So I did that

514
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: in a couple of places. So let's go back to

515
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: the girl in Tokyo. This is a Japanese woman, of

516
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: course it was. You could have bet it, you could

517
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: have met it. No, she was Japanese, okay, and she

518
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: didn't speak English. I don't think only a little bit.

519
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, if you get a lot for

520
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: an Elvis Presley album in those days, and okay, you

521
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: you ever have any contact other than that week no, okay,

522
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: So now you ultimately make it back to the UK,

523
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: now you are seventeen, then what do you do? Well,

524
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: I did's various various work on building, science and ship

525
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, so then and it wasn't that long.

526
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: It was a number of years afterwards that I joined

527
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: by Track Records. But I hustled around a bit, had

528
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: various jobs. Well did you what were you thinking in

529
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: your head? This is going to be my whole life

530
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: for I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna have a

531
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: big score. Uh not really because at that age, and

532
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: this is how I think about my my kids today.

533
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,239
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really focus too much on the

534
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: future and time. I never ever thought, I mean, to me,

535
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: people of forty years of age were old of course,

536
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: you know. So oh and I went to Jersey in

537
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: the Channel Islands. I had a great time there. For

538
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: a year. I was working with the divers and they

539
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: were widening the dock there. So they used to dive

540
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: with explosives because it was a very narrow inlet into

541
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: the into the docks in St Helier. So I worked

542
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: with them and they were like they used to clear it,

543
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, detonate it. Get rid of the rock and

544
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: clear it. So I had a great year there with them.

545
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: Came back because in those days a lot of young

546
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: people used to go. That was the place to go,

547
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: the Jersey in the Channel Liners. Lots of fun, lots

548
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: of girls, lots of everything, you know. So I went

549
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: back for that year, came back for like five or

550
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: six months. Then I went back again for another six

551
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: months and had some great times, you know. And I

552
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: was a ski bum after carcind of thing. You're not

553
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: making any money, but you do what you want doing

554
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Yes, So it traveled around a lot

555
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 1: and it was great, okay, and then you come back

556
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: and you start working with your buddy. Where is there

557
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: something else you want me to tell you? Yeah, when

558
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: I was twenty one, I was arrested for a crime, okay,

559
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: and it was a crime that I didn't commit. As

560
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: I sit here now and everybody knows, it's a bit

561
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: of a legend in the East End that I was

562
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: charged with an armed robbery along with four the guys

563
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: and I wasn't involved in it. Um so anyway they

564
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: put me onto it. And this can only happen in

565
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. It wouldn't happen today. So they put

566
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: me on an identity parade. What do you mean is

567
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: that's a line up and if somebody chooses it. So

568
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: I'm in a lineup and I'm picked out by a policeman.

569
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: And this policeman said he was riding along on his

570
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: bicycle and he saw these guys Robin an armored vain

571
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: and the guy that he saw running away was five

572
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: ft eight with frizzy, bushy hair. The judge is a

573
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: wonderful man. I hope he's still fucking dying from cancer.

574
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: He said, Well, members of the jury, you might think

575
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: that curbishly. If he was running and stooped over, he

576
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: would look five for eight and with the wind rushing

577
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: in through his hair, it would look frizzy. That's ridiculous. Indeed,

578
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: So there was that, And there was one other woman

579
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: who said she saw somebody jumped from this land rather

580
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: and she said, when she saw me in the lineup,

581
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: she said maybe, But on eight previous identity parades she

582
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 1: picked out somebody definitely, and they were all innocent people.

583
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: And that's the evidence. That is the total evidence, right,

584
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: So other than the fact that two of the other

585
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: guys who were charged with the robbery. They were friends

586
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: of mine and known to be friends of mine, and

587
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: they did commit their they were part of him. Some

588
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen years. You're a sentence. Well, let's go

589
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. You don't have any money. What

590
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: do you do for a lawyer? You get what's called

591
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: legal aids. Okay, you get public defender here, but use

592
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: your public defender. Here's a million cases. And you don't

593
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: get such a good defense. You don't get such a

594
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: good defense. But the QC I had was really quite good. Okay,

595
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: just one more time. So they arrested you. Why because

596
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: they had already arrested four other guys, and two of

597
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: them were friends of mine, and I was a known

598
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: associate with them, so they thought, why not him. I

599
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: have to ask before this, this particular arm robbery, were

600
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: you involved in any illicit activities with those other two? No? No,

601
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: but I was a known friend, and that I'm just

602
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: trying to say the way you said non friend, Medis

603
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: had a sinister elevance, know, and we went we went

604
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: to drinking clubs and things like that, you know. So

605
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: so anyway, I was a known associate. Right, So now

606
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: you're in court you say you have a good public defender,

607
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: and you got fifteen years. So then what happened? I

608
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: went to prison and uh so, I mean, you couldn't

609
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: write all of this, It's just I went to prison.

610
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: So the first prison, I went to. Second prison, I

611
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: went to Hope I'm by the way. The other guys

612
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 1: who were convicted all made statements saying that I was innocent,

613
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: because they did before we do senses. Yeah, no, no,

614
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: they said you were innocent. Yeah, they said I was innocent,

615
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: but nobody took much regard of that. So we had

616
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: an appeal and obviously died. So did they also get

617
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: fifteen years or all of them? So I then went

618
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: to um one prison. Then I went to a notorious

619
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: prison called Dartmoor, which is in the moors and way

620
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: way in the wilderness in England. Whoever designed it must

621
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: have been a total mesochist, or say this rather anyway,

622
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: um I eventually I tried to escape from there. And

623
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: then now from watching the movies, they say, if you escape,

624
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: you know you don't get out early. That's right, So

625
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: what was going through your head? I just wanted to

626
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: get out, you know, I mean, I knew I was innocent.

627
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: I just wanted out and I thought, rightly or wrongly,

628
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: I thought, if I get out, I can try and

629
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: do something about this, prove it, or go missing. I

630
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: just to me at twenty one years of age, you know. So, Um,

631
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: I tried to escape with another guy and as a

632
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: result of that, they sent me to a very very

633
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: high security prison. Just so I know, did you actually

634
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: get outside the prison wall? No? No, we had keys.

635
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: A guy made keys for us, and um, somebody must

636
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: have said something because the next thing I knew was

637
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: the doors smashed open. I'm taken out at five am

638
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: in the morning, and I'm taken from the West Country

639
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: all the way up north past Newcastle to a place

640
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: called Durham. And in Durham they had a special special wing,

641
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: high high security. And when I tell you, I went

642
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: in there and there were twenty other prisoners and I

643
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: was the shortest sentence of fifteen years, and five of

644
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: them were great train robbers. Really, yeah, okay, did you

645
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: have was it like isolation or you so you so

646
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: you could talk to our these people? Yeah? We we

647
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: became great friends. We mixed together and we became great friends.

648
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: And I then a couple of years later, and you're

649
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: talking about my We were talking about my sister who

650
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: lives in New Zealand. She came to visit me because

651
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: she was leaving to go to New Zealand, and as

652
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: she was leaving, a little incident occurred. And the upshot

653
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: of that was the next day I attacked a prison

654
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: order as a result of what he said on my

655
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: visit and the insults and my sister. So I attacked

656
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: the prison mortar order and it was it was a

657
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: nice attack, really because it wasn't that physical. I just

658
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: put a whole pot of piss all over his head,

659
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: so I got them moved. But the key to the

660
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: story is that during all this time I had a solicitor,

661
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: a young man who was absolutely convinced by innocence, and

662
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: he was fighting to try and get me released, and

663
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: he came along to see me. As a result of

664
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: this thing in Durham with the prison guard, they moved

665
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: me to Lincoln in the Midlands, and he came to

666
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: see me and he was continuously trying to get something

667
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: done about my case. And then one day the governor

668
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: came into my cell. I was in isolation and he

669
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: came in is the government and the runs of prison. Yeah,

670
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: the governor, yeah, the chief warden. And he said, look,

671
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: he said, I've just been to London. His name was

672
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: Fred Owens. He said, I've just been to London. He said,

673
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: I met a couple of friends of yours. I said really,

674
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: he said yeah, he said, and they told me all

675
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: about what had happened to you. So I said, well, okay,

676
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about it? He said, well,

677
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: I can't do anything really, he said, but if you

678
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: stay out of trouble for three months, I'll get your

679
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: moved to London so you can deal with your case

680
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: and your solicitors much more easily being in London. So

681
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: I said okay. So I stayed out of trouble, and

682
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: true to his word, he got me moved down to London,

683
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: and then I had access to my lawyer and other

684
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: people helping me on a much more daily basis. And

685
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: my lawyer was at that time solicitor, was friends with

686
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: a journalist and he was an independent journalist who wrote

687
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: for the Times, and so he um did a story

688
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: and it was front page on one of the Sunday papers.

689
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: This man is innocent. So as a result of that,

690
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: I got a re hearing in the in the Courts

691
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: of Law with not with a jury, but with three judges,

692
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: and they heard all the new evidence and everything, and

693
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: they refused it. And I was going back to the

694
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: prison and I never forget this. I was going back

695
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: to the prison in a vein. It was just before

696
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 1: Christmas and I'm on Tottenham Court Road and I saw

697
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: a bus and it was advertising the movie The Graduate,

698
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: and I think it was Jeremy or something, and he said,

699
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: this is Jeremy and he's worried about his future. And

700
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: it was great. Within Over the Christmas there was a

701
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: postal strike, so nothing much was getting through. Straight after

702
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: the Christmas, I was again, I've chosen at that time

703
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: to be a lot on my own, because you go

704
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: through cycles where you don't want to really mix too

705
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: much with people. You want to chill a bit more

706
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: on your own, you know. So I'm in the cell

707
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: and the doors opened and the guard said you're wanted

708
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: over at the parole at the parole office. I said,

709
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: go fuck off. I thought it was friends of mine playing.

710
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not due for parole for another light

711
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: four or five years or even longer. He said, I'm

712
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: telling you get changed out of your working year. You're

713
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: wanted over, I said, I said, fuck off. So they

714
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: then sent up the principal officer and I told him

715
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: the same. So they dragged me over to the parole

716
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: office in the dressed in overalls and everything, and took

717
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: me in front of the parole board. So they said,

718
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: we've considered your case and we've think you're suitable for parole.

719
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: I said, well, how do you work that one out?

720
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: I said, I've got another five or six years to

721
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: do and I don't think I've been a model prisoner.

722
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: How about telling me I'm eligible for parole because I'm innocent.

723
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: So the head of the parole board said to me, listen,

724
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: I want you to go outside for five minutes and

725
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: consider what I'm saying to you. He said, whatever, if

726
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: you're out there on a working out scheme, you will

727
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: be able to do much more for yourself then you

728
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: will in here. He said, go outside and think for

729
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: a bit. So I came back in and he said well,

730
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: I said, okay. He said, well, we're moving you to

731
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: Penterville Prison, which was in North London. He said, and

732
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: as of we'll move you there in two weeks time,

733
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: and as of that time, you have to find a job,

734
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: You go out to work, you come back every night

735
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: to the prison, except that you have weekends at home.

736
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a half way house. Yeah,

737
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: that's where it happened. So where did I go to

738
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: get my interview? Mike? Sure track records? Okay, so what

739
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: year do you get it? Go on parole? Okay? So

740
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: you're in jail for how long? Six and a half years? Okay?

741
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: You know this is a bad analogy, but they say

742
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: in football, if you play one game, you're never the

743
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: same same thing like being if you're homeless for two weeks,

744
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: you're never the same. You're in jail for six and

745
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: a half years. How did that change it as a person?

746
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: I think it changed me tremendously. I've got to say

747
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: that for many years after that, I was fueled by anger.

748
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: We're out any doubts all. I was fueled by anger

749
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: when I drink on it, and but then that dissipated

750
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: after a while and when I was able to really

751
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: really reflect on it all, I think in some strange ways,

752
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: Although I wouldn't like to turn the clock back and

753
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: do it all again, I think I gained some intangibles,

754
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: intangible assets from that time, I mean, how to deal

755
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: with people, how to deal with myself and to deal

756
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: with people and to deal with their adverse situations. I

757
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: think that if you speak to most people that know me,

758
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm a very calm person. I don't get dramatic. Nothing

759
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: phases me. Really, to be honest and nobody. So I

760
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: think I came out of it with a lot of assets.

761
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 1: To you think you're only calm because you went to prison.

762
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: I think I learned. Yeah, I think I learned how

763
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: to how to meditate on staff, how to how to

764
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: deal with it. Um ironically, I mean, as I said,

765
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: you couldn't write this script because I made a movie

766
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: not long after coming out about the prison I was in,

767
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: starring Roger Daltrey, called mc vicar exactly, and that was

768
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: the place I was in. So you know, who would

769
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: have thought two years, three years later on making this movie.

770
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: Of course, as they say, we're getting your story right here.

771
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: But you know, in today's prison movies were the reason

772
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: I mentioned it is because Roger mentions it in his books.

773
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: So I saw the movie when it came out. I

774
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: sided westbod Connecticut. He mentions the whole thing about me

775
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: being in prison and so on in the book. So

776
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: and I'm it's nothing that I'm ashamed of, you know

777
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: what I mean? Innocent? Yeah, in fact exactly, And so

778
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: as they all knew, and those periods, I've got people

779
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: who have been pushing me and pushing me for a

780
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: few years to either bank a movie or do do

781
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: a TV series around it. Um. I was quite reluctant

782
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: to do any of that when my children were younger.

783
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: I didn't want to embarrass them. And you know, our

784
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: cruel some children can be to others when they were

785
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: in store. But now that they're adults, they're pressing me

786
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: to do it. So I'm looking at seriously doing it,

787
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, But I have to ask, what was

788
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: it like being in prison every day the same as

789
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: every other day. Well, they talk about men reaping and gangs,

790
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: and that wasn't any of that in those days. You

791
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: there was men being raped in those days, but it

792
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: was very tough. You didn't have the ship you got today,

793
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: you didn't have telephones. You've got one visit a month,

794
00:49:53,280 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: that's what you got. Um, And it wasn't so so orientated.

795
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: But also I was quite fortunate because I knew whatever

796
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: prison I went into, I knew a few people, now

797
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, And as I said, I became very friendly

798
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: and Durham with five of the train robbers who remained friends. Um.

799
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: So I never had a problem in prison, m h.

800
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: And it's a bit different in when you're in what's

801
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: called a high category, top security long term prison. It's

802
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: a bit different. Okay, So why are you in prison?

803
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: Before you get out? You knew? Could you envision getting

804
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: out of prison at one time? And what you're gonna do?

805
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: When we were in Durham, the then Home Secretary was

806
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: the main called Roy Jenkins, and he he put us

807
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: under armed guard with machine guns and sam bags because

808
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: he said that he had heard from a good authority

809
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: that the train robbers were going to blow the wall

810
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: down to escape. And I used to walk around that

811
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: little yard convincing myself I would have as much good

812
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: luck as I as I've had bad luck. And indeed

813
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: God has been good. I've had more good luck than

814
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: bad luck, and I'm very very grateful. What was your

815
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: romeetic situation before, during and after prison? Before I went

816
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: into prison, I was with a girl, and when I

817
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: went into the prison, I said, you better forget about me.

818
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: I'm dead. And I didn't see her or anybody other

819
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 1: than my immediate family for all those years. And when

820
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: I was telling you about getting the retrial that was

821
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: on a front page news, I went downstairs to the

822
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: censor and I said, I don't want any letters coming

823
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: through here from crazy people, right because now it's in

824
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: the nose. I don't want that ship. I only want

825
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: letters from all the correspondents have been corresponding with me

826
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: for the last six years. And a postcard came through

827
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: from this girl and she had been married during that

828
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: period and divorced, and she had two children. So I

829
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: had her down to visit me, and then within a

830
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: couple of months I was out and we eventually married.

831
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: I adopted to two children, one of them lives here,

832
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: and we married and then we had She worked with

833
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: me all those years with the WHO, and we eventually

834
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: divorced after twenty five years, and then sadly she died

835
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: last year. Okay, two years ago. Why did you get divorced?

836
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: We just grew apart, we really did, you know? We

837
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: grew apart as people. Um, But it was good before that.

838
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: It was great before that. Yeah. It was good before that,

839
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: and we were soul mates and we were, but she

840
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: changed and I changed. Okay, so now you're working at

841
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: track Records. One of the things I did do just

842
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm thirty one year sober, unclean, and that's when I

843
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: stopped drinking whatever. And then it changed everything I think.

844
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: And then in we divorced, you know, okay, I have

845
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: to ask it. Did she still drink? Yeah, but she

846
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: wasn't a big drinker. Okay, So when were you always

847
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 1: a big drinker? Oh? Yeah? And anything other than alcohol,

848
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: not really. I dabbled with I dabbled with marijuana. Um,

849
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: I had a little experiment with cocaine, but it wasn't

850
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: my drug. My my drug was alcohol. Okay, So how

851
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: did you go? Moivate you to get clean? I stopped,

852
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: But what motivated you? I had a young guy who

853
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: was an accountant who started with me when I first started,

854
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: and he was coming home from a party in the

855
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: early hours of the morning and he killed an old

856
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: lady on the crossing. And I was such a pig

857
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: in those days. Nobody could tell me not to drive

858
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 1: when I was drunk. And I stopped short and I thought,

859
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: what are you going to do. If it's someone's son,

860
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: someone's daughter, you know, you don't listen to people. And

861
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: I thought about it long and hard, and I stopped,

862
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: and I started getting fit and training, and I got

863
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: through the first Christmas because I didn't say this is forever.

864
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: But I stopped, and I got through the first Christmas,

865
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: and then before I knew it, I was into a

866
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: second Christmas. I had a similar situation. My life was

867
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: too crazy. I was arrusted for drunk driving and then

868
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: you get summary probation, which means within the two years,

869
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: if you get stopped at all with any alcohol, you

870
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: lose your license. This is l a. You have to

871
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: have a driver's license. And you know, the name of

872
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: the game is delay. So in the window for when

873
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: I was first arrested the night John Lennon uh was killed,

874
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: till going to jail, going to court, like eight months later,

875
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,479
Speaker 1: I was stopped again on the freeway and I said,

876
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: so then once it was summary, I didn't get They

877
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: let me go, but I was stopped again. I said,

878
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: this couldn't happen. I said, you know, I'm not gonna

879
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: drive within eight hours, have a good drink. And then

880
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: I was I mean, I've told this story before I

881
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: one on one. I probably go on it fur the lake.

882
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: But I started to see this woman in there's the

883
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: beginning of sushi, so you would go, this is West Hollywood,

884
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: and okay, if I drank saki, I had to stay

885
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: at her house, which was a good thing until one

886
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: night she bit me. And there's a long story after that.

887
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: But uh then she said she would never do it again.

888
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: She did again. I said, my life is just too complicated.

889
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop drinking, you know, I gotta be able

890
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 1: to drive whatever. And I was not tending to quit forever,

891
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: just like you. And then all of a sudden, because

892
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, the first couple of months is hard. It's

893
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: not the miss alcohol. So what you missed the lifestyle.

894
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's a lifestyle. What's relevant, it's where did

895
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: she bite you? She didn't buy me where that's where

896
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: we go, and she bought me bit me on the Netflix.

897
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: So you understand where I'm coming from that because you know,

898
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: lots of other people whose names remained nameless now you

899
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: know they're famous answers or whatever, all stopped around that

900
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: same time or just after me, you know, and we

901
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: frequently see each other and they're clean and dry, and

902
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: why they're still alive. They really are well. I mean,

903
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: as they say, one thing, I know, you know because

904
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: l A you can. This is another thing. I ran

905
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: into somebody who wanted to be reasonable with and I

906
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: had had a couple of drinks and he didn't he

907
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: could tell. They said, whenever I'm in a situation, I

908
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: want to have all my marbles with me, and you know,

909
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't really have the urge anymore. And sometimes when

910
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: you're a restaurant it's midnight and they've had a couple

911
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: of bottles that everybody's having a good time. But I

912
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: also remember what was wigging up was exactly and I

913
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: never I never do because honestly, our older wife, for

914
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: my wife and friends, it never occurs to me. It's

915
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: a different life. And my two kids. I've got a

916
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: daughter of twenty three with this current marriage, and a

917
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: boy of twenty one. And they've never seen me drunk,

918
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: which is great, right, right right. They've seen me grumpy,

919
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: they've seen whatever they've seen me in mood swings, but

920
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: never seen me like that, which is very very important

921
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: because it's not it's not do what I say is

922
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: do what I do you know. Well, that's what the

923
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: other thing you mentioned about driving drunk. I went to

924
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: college in Mark. This is on the dark era. That's

925
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: not ad whatever. That's what we used to do. You

926
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: get drunk and we're gonna go out driving. I remember

927
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: I lived in Utah sche Bump for a couple years.

928
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: I remember, and that's a pretty you know, dangerous road

929
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: driving back down to the canyon don the canyon. I

930
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: remember one morning I woke up and I had to

931
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: go out and look at my car and said, you know,

932
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: is my car really here? And intact I literally went

933
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: around the whole Guy said, I just can't believe I

934
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: lived in Spain. And the honestly, the road around the

935
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: mountain to where I lived was one car wide. He's

936
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: shaking his hits on the time hour survived. But you know,

937
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: there's another side to it all as well. I mean, um,

938
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: I know that some of the artists I was with

939
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: some but maybe two, I don't know, one of them

940
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: sort of resented it or couldn't understand it, or you know,

941
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: whether there's an element of I would like to be

942
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: like that in it, or little element you know, having

943
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: work with I don't know whether it's worse with English people.

944
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: But up until first of all, this was before mothers

945
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: against drum driving, but up until sometime in the nineties

946
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: when it became kind of cool not to drink. Oh

947
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: you actually get shipped. You got to a bar, hey

948
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: have one, and they exactly, well it's all like bring

949
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: them into the into the group, exactly, it makes them

950
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: feel better. But coming back to the the reasons as well,

951
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: is that this young solicitor I was telling you about

952
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: who fought for me and for me, I saw him

953
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: when I was released, and I didn't see him for

954
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: a while after that, and then lo and behold, it

955
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: moved to San Francisco and I saw him in San

956
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: Francisco in seventy three. He had two little baby girls, twins,

957
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: and he came with me to the count Palace, which

958
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: was the infamous night when the fake drummer Keith Moon

959
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: falls off the drum right right. And so I never

960
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: saw him after that for all those years, and then

961
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: I saw him two years ago. He's now a rebi

962
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: in Israel. That's a crazy story. That is crazy, really crazy, okay,

963
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: But he was not the person who killed somebody. That

964
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: was somebody else in your office. Oh yeah, that was

965
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: an account. Okay, I just want to make sure I

966
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: got the story this. This is a solicitor who understand

967
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: who who defended me? Right? I understand through. Okay, So

968
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: a different question. Um, you said it earlier that you

969
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: were always a big music fan. Yeah, so what did

970
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: that look like? Did your parents play music in the house?

971
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: How did you be going? Oh? Yeah, my mom was

972
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: a singer. She used to sing in pups. My dad

973
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: used to drink and she used to sing, and she

974
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: was a good singer, and and her her sister, my aunt.

975
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: So it was music. Music. And then as a young man, Um,

976
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: we were mods. So we would go out what quadraphenia

977
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: is all about. Really, we would go out on a

978
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: Friday night and we'd come back Monday morning and go

979
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: to work. I mean, we were industrious, the MUDs. We

980
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: weren't living off Social Security. And I would go out,

981
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: go to wherever we were going, where the MUDs went,

982
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 1: and then a lot with a couple of pals, we'd

983
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: go down to what was then a notorious black area,

984
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: Cable Street in Stepane, and they had all these small

985
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: sabines and clubs, and that's I don't know what shebine

986
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: is a word for a club, and it was all

987
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: blue beat reggae, and that was it for me, you know.

988
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: And it was all about Prince baster King pleasure all

989
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: those songs that were coming in and a lot of

990
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: that stuff was brought in by American g ias after

991
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 1: the Second World War, you know, and and then brought

992
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: crossed through from from the Caribbean, from Jamaica. So music

993
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: was very much in my blood. And then I gravitated

994
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: a bit from that to jazz, became a real real

995
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: aviad jazz fan, you know, all the way through. And

996
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: so it was in my blood, okay, And I never realized.

997
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: Um so when you're saying about what did I gain

998
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: from that? I found something that hopefully I'm reasonably good at.

999
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: And I'm forever grateful for that because I found something

1000
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: in my life that I think I'm pretty good at.

1001
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: And the people I work for and I stressed for

1002
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: and with I feel the same. So it worked out

1003
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: certainly from our viewpoint. Um, you know, we only heard

1004
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: about it, we ultimly the movie Quadraphenia and Elite seven,

1005
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: but we read about the Margin rockers what was really

1006
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: going on there? Well, I'm doing it. I'm working on

1007
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: a TV series at the moment, just going to explore

1008
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: the whole cultural change. Is going to be three series,

1009
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: the whole cultural change after the Second World War in England,

1010
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: and it's quite phenomenal because what happened was I went

1011
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: to meet some people at a C a m C.

1012
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: And they said, how would you sum this up? You

1013
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: mean like AMC movie theater. Okay, So they said, well,

1014
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: how would you sum this up, this thing you're talking about?

1015
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: I said, Well, when I was a boy, my parents,

1016
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: if anyone came through the door wearing a suit, it

1017
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: was yes, sir, yes sir, I said, and everybody followed

1018
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,919
Speaker 1: their father into whatever profession he was in. I said,

1019
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: But without generation Second World War, there was a reaction

1020
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: to it and instead of yes sir, we said, funk

1021
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: you and we wanted something more and that's what happened.

1022
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: So with the evolution. I remember when I was fifth

1023
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: in NFT eight, when I was sixteen, when we were

1024
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: not we were murdered. It was all about the clothes,

1025
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, being like a peacock wearing those clothes. We

1026
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: worked as hard as we could to make the money

1027
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: to buy the clothes. But the changes were. It was

1028
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: a revolution, the changes in advertising, fashion, design, music. You

1029
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: know what happened. You've got the invasion of English and

1030
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: that's incredible that you've got an invasion of English music

1031
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: right as a result of the Second World War, not

1032
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: French or German or Dutch. I mentioned one Dutch being.

1033
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: But it was all English right coming to America, and

1034
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: everybody's saying in American right right, that was wed You

1035
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: noticed that exactly, we didn't see yeah, we didn't sing

1036
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: in English, right right. And so all of that was happening,

1037
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: and from there came people like Riddy Scott, Alan Parker,

1038
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: David Partner, movie greet movie directors, movie executive from from

1039
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: advertising through there. So the TV series that I'm doing

1040
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: embraces more than just Quadrophenia, because Couadrophenia was three days

1041
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: in the life of a Mud. What we're doing is

1042
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,439
Speaker 1: it's starts in with the wind wind rush generation coming

1043
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: in from the Caribbean and from Jamaica into England immigrants,

1044
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: and it takes us through the sixties and through the seventhies.

1045
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: So we go through that all those cultural changes, all

1046
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: that color, because after the Second World War everything was gray.

1047
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: So all that Color, Carnaby, street pop, arts, advertising, fashion.

1048
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: Then we've got Margaret Thatcher, Industrial Strikes, Punk which came

1049
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: and went through to the end of it, and it

1050
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: takes us up to the end of the seventies maybe

1051
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: early eighties. Okay, did you have a scooter? No? Do

1052
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: you know what we had? We had a funeral hearse.

1053
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: We had a funeral hearse. We used to go down

1054
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 1: to Brighton where the riots were in a funeral hearse,

1055
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: eight or ten of us and um, oh yeah. And

1056
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: when we first did the movie Quadrophenia, the first scenes

1057
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: we had to shoot with the riot scenes because it

1058
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: was very late in the year and we had to

1059
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: simulate summer and it was like the end of September

1060
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: and it was freezing down now. And I went to

1061
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: my youngest brother's school with two buses to big coaches

1062
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: and got all the kids out of there for extras

1063
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: for the riot scenes. Know, so we never know. We

1064
01:06:54,600 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: didn't have scooters. We had Okay, the others? Was the

1065
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: mart tell me about the Rockers? Were the Rockers again

1066
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: in the first series. In the movie of Quadraphine, You've

1067
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: got the fantastic scene when Jimmy's in the bath and

1068
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: he's singing, and someone's singing in the other bath and

1069
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: it's Kevin, his pal. And when they come out, Ray Winston,

1070
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: when they come out, he looks at him and he goes,

1071
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: what the funk you're wearing? Because he's a rock He's

1072
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: a rocker. So yeah, the rockers they were in weirdly enough,

1073
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: their their music appealed to me as well, you know.

1074
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I can remember the first time I saw

1075
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: a rock around the clock, the Bill Haley movie, you know,

1076
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: And um, all of the rock music appealed to me

1077
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: to a great extent, but the dress didn't so much.

1078
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: The leather gear and the big bikes and to what

1079
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: degree with their battles between the bids and the rockers

1080
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: a lot. And I was involved in a lot of that,

1081
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: going down to Brighton and Margate and getting involved in

1082
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: in the fights down there. It was it was all

1083
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: the time, It was there all the time. Um. And

1084
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: it's I guess everything we can ever talk about is

1085
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: in Shakespeare anyway, So it's all Romeo and Juliet in

1086
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: the end West Side stories, Romeo and Juliet. The modern

1087
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: rockers are to a great degree, you know, so um,

1088
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: but you get those tribes. It's all tribal. We have

1089
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: tribal in America right now. It is, of course, And

1090
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: on that subject talking about tribal you know, and and

1091
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: and some of the things that happened. I mean, it

1092
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: was quite extraordinary for me because I was born in

1093
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: this working class area and I'm telling you they were

1094
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: pretty rigid in lots of ways, and there was a

1095
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: lot of discrimination. But having said that, one of my

1096
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: best friends was a black boy who lived next door

1097
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: to me. But more than that, there was this prejudice everywhere.

1098
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: But for me growing up, my role models, my icons

1099
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 1: were all the black blues musicians and black athletes, you know,

1100
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: Joe Louis Sugar, Ray Robinson, Mohammed Ali, Cassis Clay, Mohammed Ali.

1101
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: So I guess I was strange in a way because

1102
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: I was devoid of that prejudice, but it was around

1103
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 1: me all the time. And so when you talk about tribes,

1104
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, I fully I was bewildered a bit by

1105
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: America and the prejudice and the fact that someone like

1106
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: Cassius Clay could come back from the Olympics and not

1107
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: going into a restaurant of his choice, you know. Um,

1108
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: But thankfully the world has changed. It was changed to

1109
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: a certain degree. But what do you think of brexit?

1110
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: Oh for funk saying, how long have you got? Okay,

1111
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: I haven't got an hour for brexit, but I got

1112
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: a few minutes from Brexit. Okay. Brexit I think is

1113
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: essential for one real reason. It started off as a

1114
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: trade in family, just purely for commerce the EU, and

1115
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: it started off as a trade in family, and it's

1116
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: been distorted and distorted over the years to the point

1117
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: where the other twenty seven countries involved have lost their

1118
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:39,799
Speaker 1: ability to pass their own laws to even increase interests

1119
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: in the banks. They're governed by Brussels. And I think

1120
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: it's to me it's doomed. It will not survive in

1121
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 1: the Union in my opinion the EU. Is it more

1122
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 1: about the currency or more about the laws. Well, firstly,

1123
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: we as England have your own currency. We would ever

1124
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: have survived the two thousand and eight economic disaster without

1125
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,839
Speaker 1: having our own currency because we were able to fluctuate

1126
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: the interest rates and go with with you know, currency

1127
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: eas in which they in Brussels refused the other countries

1128
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: to the way. And what they've got now is they've

1129
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: got these dependent countries Portugal, Italy, Spain, you know, Greece, Greece,

1130
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: and what they did to Greece I think is abominable.

1131
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: If you read there's a finance minister who was the

1132
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: finance minister for Greece at the time, and they maligned

1133
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: him and said he was an idiot. In fact, he's

1134
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: a highly intelligent man, Yannis, and the way he describes

1135
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:47,520
Speaker 1: what they did to them is like punitive and repugnant.

1136
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: So for me, Um, I would like to see us out.

1137
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,600
Speaker 1: I would like to see us trade in with the

1138
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: rest of the world and free of those sheckles, because

1139
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: I consider of the EU is corrupt. It really is.

1140
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: It's a corrupt machine. There's been many books written. One

1141
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: body X finance minister who's a woman who is um

1142
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 1: half argentinean half American and she was a head of

1143
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: head of funds there and what she So we're better

1144
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: off out of it, Okay, So what about I mean,

1145
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: I know in our world, I had experience with Richard

1146
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: Griffith's manager, and I've been with his partner at a

1147
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: gig and we were getting together the next day and

1148
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: I emailed hearing I didn't hear back from him. I

1149
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 1: texted her email Richard, and he got back to immediately said,

1150
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: I know, I thought you were in I think he

1151
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: was an Amsterdam with one d okay whatever. They said, No,

1152
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 1: we took the private jet home. I'm home already, and

1153
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: it's like at twelve o'clock at night. Because of all

1154
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: the relaxation under the EU, they don't have all the

1155
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: customs and all that other stuff. Now in your world

1156
01:12:54,880 --> 01:13:00,040
Speaker 1: there's a direct you know, interference customs wise. Yeah, I

1157
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 1: guess so, but it will ease. I mean, my daughter

1158
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: said to me, dead dead when if we leave, will

1159
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: I be able to go clubbing in Germany? I said,

1160
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: you do you think Canadians and Americans don't go clubbing

1161
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: in Germany? Do you think they turn them away when

1162
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: they've got their money in their hand? Come on, So

1163
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: it's all about money, Bob. Everything that happens in this

1164
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: world is driven by money. The wars that we look

1165
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: at that so fucking awful. Money. Money. Money. Just to

1166
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,520
Speaker 1: go one step further, there are a lot of European

1167
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: companies who have built factories and held up propped up

1168
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 1: a lot of low income communities in England, and those

1169
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: companies will go, won't there? Be fewer jobs. No, not really.

1170
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of it is scare mongering.

1171
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: I think we're going to find markets. I don't. I'm

1172
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: not saying it won't be tough in the beginning, but

1173
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: you see, you've got a lot of young people who

1174
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: don't remember it before that. I can remember what we

1175
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: were before we joined the EU. Digor never wanted us

1176
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: there anyway, he said, we're in island, We're not landlocked.

1177
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: We shouldn't be in Europe. Don't start me, under Gaul.

1178
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: I remember, I mean without America, we wouldn't be a

1179
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: free nation. Of course, I'm telling you. And I remembered

1180
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: the Gal and I think it might have been Foster,

1181
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: that is, who was then the American ambassador, and the

1182
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 1: Gore said to him, I want every American military personnel

1183
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: out of France within six months. So he said, does

1184
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 1: that include the ones that are buried here? Okay, let's

1185
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: jump back, you nourball, you've got a track records. What's

1186
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 1: happening at track Records? When you get there? When I

1187
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: get there, they, as I said, I was quite naive.

1188
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: I didn't realize what they were into, et cetera. On

1189
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,560
Speaker 1: how much the drugs were part of their life. But

1190
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: I started learning incredibly quickly, and it wasn't long before

1191
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 1: I was taking the band out on the road. And

1192
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: then I went to Lambert Stamp with the old contracts

1193
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: and I said, listen, these don't look great to me.

1194
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: I think I could do these better. Well, they couldn't

1195
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: be bothered, you know. They said, well, if you think so,

1196
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: I see what I can. So I took them out

1197
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:44,560
Speaker 1: on one tour, and I think I made them in

1198
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: those days could have easily been five or six hundred

1199
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: thousand pounds more. So in essence, Lamber and Stamp made

1200
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 1: a lot more, and I got a little bit of

1201
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: a bonus, a little bit of a bonus, but I

1202
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 1: thought I've proved something here, and and I went forward

1203
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: on that basis, you know. And then what happened was

1204
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 1: the more and more I did with the band, the

1205
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: more and more I suppose we became family. You know.

1206
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: It was a bit slower with Pete than Roger. Roger

1207
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: was always my champion, always, especially once I did his

1208
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: solo album. But Pete is slow to take two people.

1209
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: But eventually he came round, and now we're really really bonded,

1210
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: you like let's talk about Pete and Roger. How do

1211
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 1: they get along? Well, someone asked me that the other day,

1212
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 1: and I said, they're a little bit like Richard Burton

1213
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Taylor. I'm not telling you who's Elizabeth. It's

1214
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: a it's a love hate thing in a sense, I

1215
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: mean all it is. It's not love hate, that's wrong,

1216
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 1: it's love irritability. They were just like having a brother

1217
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: and since, yeah, they irritate each other. Okay, Now, whatever

1218
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 1: happened with Speedy Keeen Thunderclap Newman. I was a huge

1219
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 1: fan of that initial album, Hollywood Dream Speedy. I gave

1220
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: him the title ironically because I got it now because

1221
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 1: I just come home Previous Convictions that was his album,

1222
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,759
Speaker 1: and boted I got it. And we were great friends

1223
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: and I spent time with them, and Speedy was a good,

1224
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: great friend. And Speedy was with a girl, Janet, who

1225
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:36,600
Speaker 1: used to work with us in track records. She eventually

1226
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 1: married Asthlete Right Janet Astley Right, don't no. Lesley was

1227
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 1: one of the She was one of the family that

1228
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: Pete married into. Her name was Jen Jen. It'll come

1229
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 1: to me in a minute, but anyway, she ended up

1230
01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 1: marrying Phil Daniels from the movie. Okay, now, um, how

1231
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: about Jimmy McCullough, who ultimately went to play with Wings.

1232
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: He went to Wings, Jimmy and his brother they were

1233
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,560
Speaker 1: on track. I got on great with them. You know,

1234
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: he was phenomenal, little Jimmy. They were they were great guitarist.

1235
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: So we had so much great talent coming through our hands.

1236
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: You know, it was phenomenal. Really in those days it

1237
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: was so vibrant. Who owns all those masters? Now, because

1238
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: of the debts and the money that was missing, we

1239
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 1: sold all the masters to PolyGram in order to pay

1240
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: the artists there ortists. Okay, Now, also in seventy two,

1241
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: I think at the end of seventy two, and you know,

1242
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: Pete produced something in the course, I know that. And

1243
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: then but he put out a solo album who came first?

1244
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 1: Now that wasn't available on CD until right go sometimes

1245
01:18:56,160 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: like now that wasn't that on track records? Though? That

1246
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: was on track records absolutely, So how did that get

1247
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 1: excluded from the deal with Poley Graham? It was When

1248
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 1: you say excluded in what way? It was? Wounds it

1249
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: today they do, Oh yeah, just like when I took

1250
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,719
Speaker 1: an album much much later that Pete did called Empty Glass,

1251
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 1: and I did a deal with Doug Morris Echo, much

1252
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: to the chagrin and Mo Austin and and Jerry Mars

1253
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 1: soon chasing me. Um. There's a little story involved there

1254
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: where I really felt that Doug Morris was so hungry

1255
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: for it. He just started at CO and I thought,

1256
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 1: this is a guy who's going to die for this album,

1257
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: which he did, and he's He often says the two

1258
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: albums that set him on his career were Pete towns

1259
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 1: As Empty Glass and Stevie Nick Solo. Listen I Empty Glass.

1260
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 1: I just put it the other day. You know, a

1261
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: little is enough in the title track, unbelievable, especially Empty

1262
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: Glass when I used to drink. He likes a mess.

1263
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, I hold an empty glass. Okay, but let's

1264
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: go back. You're still with m C. A quadrophenia comes

1265
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: out with m C and m C A. This is

1266
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: a question you may may not be able to answer.

1267
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: Roger and Pete. What do they prefer a quadrophenia or Tommy.

1268
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,680
Speaker 1: That's very difficult for me to answer for them. But

1269
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 1: because there obviously for Peter as a writer, they relate

1270
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: to two different periods of his thinking. And I often

1271
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: say that Tommy is the hippie opera and Quadrophenia is

1272
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: the industrial opera. UM. In their own ways, they've had

1273
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: several incarnations, you know. UM Tommy was was the stage

1274
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 1: production and the movie. Ironically, the movie came first UM

1275
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 1: and Quadrophenia. Incredibly, I still can't believe it, but we

1276
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: celebrated the fourties anniversary of the movie Quadrophenia earlier this year.

1277
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 1: All of the cast turned up Sting Ray Winston, all

1278
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 1: of them. We had a great night, raised money for charity,

1279
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 1: and it's still being shown on TV. HOWU. It's just insane. Now,

1280
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: that's a movie that you know, it's not deated whatsoever.

1281
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 1: Certainly it's a period movie to begin with. But yeah,

1282
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,760
Speaker 1: but the only thing that stated, Bob are the uniforms,

1283
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: the dilemma, the problems, the whole core of the film

1284
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 1: are the same your kids, My kids. They get to

1285
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 1: their teenage years and they're faced with a minefield and

1286
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: they've got to walk across that minefield and it's full

1287
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: of ship. You know, it's full of all kinds of

1288
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: real big problems, whether it be what we deal with

1289
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: with teenagers with cancer, is they come through their teenage

1290
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: years and don't get anything like that. You praise God.

1291
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: There's other stuff out there on the streets, the drugs

1292
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 1: and everything. So the teenage years are a minefield, and

1293
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 1: every teenager thinks his problems are unique. He won't go

1294
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: to Dead Willie because dad says, I know all about that.

1295
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 1: I went through that you couldn't have done. They go

1296
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 1: to their peer group to look for answers, and the

1297
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 1: answers I'm afraid and not with the peer group. So

1298
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 1: so um yeah, I think that in Tommy is a

1299
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: metaphor deft, dumb and blind. It's a metaphor of uh,

1300
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: you're you know, being not having your senses. They're are reawakening, etcetera, etcetera.

1301
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: Quadrophenia is totally different. Quadrophenias are coming in of Age

1302
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: movie A Journey, And so for me, if I had

1303
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: to have a choice, my choice it's quadrophenia. I can't

1304
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: say about Pete and Roger. I mean, you've got great

1305
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: songs in Birth. Well, the only thing is switching give

1306
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,640
Speaker 1: us a little bit. When I was in college, we

1307
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: used to have a thing name a better album than

1308
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: Who's Next from beginning to end and all that stuff

1309
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 1: is held up. But how did you end up switching

1310
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: from mc A to Warner Brothers with who? Um? I

1311
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: think that was the advent of it, that we didn't

1312
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: switch really until I did the Townsend deal with Glass

1313
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: And on that subject you're talking about when you were

1314
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 1: at college. I made a movie two years ago called

1315
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 1: The Railway Man, and it's a true story about a

1316
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: guy who was a Japanese prisoner of war. And it's

1317
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: basically a movie about forgiveness. It's a true story and

1318
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: he's tortured terribly by the Japanese and he was on

1319
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 1: the Death Railroad railroad, you know, the Burma Railroad. So

1320
01:23:56,640 --> 01:24:00,760
Speaker 1: it starts Colin Firth and Nicole Kimmon. You should go see.

1321
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:03,799
Speaker 1: It's a good movie. I'm very proud of it. Anyway,

1322
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: during location, Colin Firth said to me, listen. He said

1323
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: a lot of these musicians, he said, they collect things,

1324
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: don't They said, there's this guy who collects ferraris. I said, no,

1325
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: that's Nick Mason pink Floyd. So I said, um, I said,

1326
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 1: you know a lot of them clicked things. I said,

1327
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: you collect anything, which I knew he did, he said,

1328
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: because my partner told me. He said, well, I suppose

1329
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: you could say. He said, I'd collect guitars. I said,

1330
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 1: can you play them? He said, well yeah. After a fashion,

1331
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: he said all right, he said cards on the table.

1332
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: He said, my favorite album of all time is Quadrophenia.

1333
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: I said, Colin, don't give me that ship. Tell me

1334
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:53,520
Speaker 1: a song from it. He told me every song on Quadrophenia.

1335
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 1: So I said, well, where did you get into that?

1336
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:00,639
Speaker 1: He said when I was at university. I said, okay.

1337
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: So I went home the next day, so I phone Pete.

1338
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 1: I said, Pete, you don't have a guitar, do you

1339
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: that I could give Colin Firth. You know I'm making

1340
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 1: this movie with him. He said yeah, he said I do. Actually,

1341
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 1: he said, I've got the guitar that I wrote Quadrophenia on.

1342
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: I said what, he said, I've got the said you're

1343
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: not going to give that. You won't give that way?

1344
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, yeah, I will for it for you

1345
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 1: for him, So he signs it. I'll go back on location.

1346
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: I said to him, Colin, we need to see you tonight.

1347
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: Andy and I over at the hotel. Got to have

1348
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: a talk with you. He said, it's not about this mustache.

1349
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 1: Is it you had a mustache in the movie. So

1350
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 1: I said no, but come over the hotel. So he

1351
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,679
Speaker 1: came over the hotel. So I gave him the guitar.

1352
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: He said, what's that? I said, open it? He said

1353
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 1: ship He said for Gibson. I said, it's more than that.

1354
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: I said, it's it's the guitar. The townsend wrote Quadrophenia

1355
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 1: on he went. He said that means more to me

1356
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: than you, Oscar I got for the King's speech. You know,

1357
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 1: music sitting in the Sheridan Gibson okay, So how do

1358
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 1: you are? How does the band okay moon dies? Did

1359
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 1: you see that coming? Well, we always saw it coming,

1360
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,880
Speaker 1: but even so when it happens, it's a shock. And

1361
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 1: the day that it happened is quite peculiar in a way,

1362
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 1: because I went to PolyGram and the guy who was

1363
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: the MP deer PolyGram at that time in England was

1364
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: a man called Fred high On. He was from Holland

1365
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 1: and he was the original manager of Golden ear Ring

1366
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: and let's how I got the Golden ear Ring thing.

1367
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: And he was always a raven her fan. And I

1368
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: went to PolyGram and they agreed to give me the

1369
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 1: money to produce the movie Quadrophenia. M mcvickor and I

1370
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: did them that year, back to back, and I came

1371
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 1: back to the office. I got there and my x

1372
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:05,840
Speaker 1: or I said to me, sit down. She said Moon's dead.

1373
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: I said, what she said, Moon's dead? Fuck? You know.

1374
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: And it was so hard to assimilate and to take

1375
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 1: in because I was told by that doctor who gave

1376
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: him those pills him and never in pills. They were

1377
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: pills to combat shakes and detis and epilepsy if you're

1378
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: because he was trying to come off the brose. And

1379
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 1: I was told there were no side effects. But I

1380
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 1: suppose if you take twenty three of anything, that's going

1381
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: to be side effects. Um. So I've often said, you

1382
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 1: know that if if Moon Moon's death was inevitable, then

1383
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: John it was Yours was unnecessary. Okay, a little deeper,

1384
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, it was unnecessary because with John we all

1385
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 1: knew he had a little bit of a hard thing,

1386
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: but it was always played down. He was very flippant

1387
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 1: about it. Nobody ever thought it was anything more than

1388
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 1: something you just took a pillful, you know. So yeah,

1389
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: but but coming back to Moon, Um, even though you

1390
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 1: expect these things, and I don't know if Moon would

1391
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: have would have if he would ever have made old bones.

1392
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 1: He just wasn't that type of character to make old bones.

1393
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,720
Speaker 1: You know, how can you envisage an old Keith Moon?

1394
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. What I do know is if Moon

1395
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: has had any discipline whatsoever, he could have been one

1396
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 1: of our greatest character actors because he could sit with

1397
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: you well, but he could sit with you and within

1398
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:52,720
Speaker 1: ten minutes he would have of all your idiosyncrasies, all

1399
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: your body language. He was a great mimic, fantastic, but

1400
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: no discipline. Well, one other thing, you know, remember I

1401
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: saw the band performed Tommy at Fillmore East. This is

1402
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: six and I've never seen a drummer like Moon. You know,

1403
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 1: he almost it would take two people to replicate him.

1404
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: It was just unbelievable the way his arms moved. Well,

1405
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 1: he's dynamic and he's so unorthodox, you know. And my

1406
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 1: tour manager, Rex King, he came to see us play

1407
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: at the Hammersmith Odeon with John Bonham and as they

1408
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 1: came out, Bonham said to him, We've just seen the

1409
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: best band on the planet, the best band on the planet,

1410
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 1: and I've had artists through my career. You know. I

1411
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: was twenty six years with Robert Plant and fourteen of

1412
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: those years Jimmy Page was with us and superlative musicians. Yes,

1413
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: but when the Who are on, the Who are on.

1414
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: I remember a headline we had we had from one

1415
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 1: concert and it said, yes, Zeppelin, Zeppelin and the rest

1416
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: of the good, but they can't kiss you good night

1417
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: like the Who. Well, I just remember when they had

1418
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 1: the Madison Square Garden concert after nine eleven and the

1419
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 1: Who just blew everybody else off the stage. Were that

1420
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: nine eleven? Things quite interesting because funnily enough they were

1421
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Pete and Roger were in my office. So I got

1422
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 1: a phone call from Weinstein. So he said, what the

1423
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 1: Who did the nine eleven thing? I said, Harvey, we're

1424
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 1: not a cabaret action. I said, if we come and

1425
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 1: do that, I want forty five minutes. He said, at least,

1426
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 1: he said, you've got it. You got it, He said,

1427
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: no problem. He said, but if the Who come on,

1428
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:41,679
Speaker 1: all the other artists will come on. So I said,

1429
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: he said, where do you want to play on the bill?

1430
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:50,600
Speaker 1: I said anywhere. I just want that fifty minutes back anywhere.

1431
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 1: And that day was fucking magic and I'll never forget

1432
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Elton John Old Power, but he came into that dressing

1433
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 1: room to the boys and he were I've never seen

1434
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 1: anything like it. And for me, I've been with them

1435
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: forty nine years. The most moving experience I've had was

1436
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 1: that we did nine eleven. And we've had some amazing stuff,

1437
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:20,760
Speaker 1: but we did nine eleven. And then some time after that,

1438
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 1: we went to Washington for the Kennedy Awards, and Dave

1439
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: Grohl spoke about how they were responsible for him being

1440
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: in the music business, and we had all the other

1441
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:36,680
Speaker 1: artists up there would do songs, you know whatever, and

1442
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 1: then right at the last song, I could hear require

1443
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,640
Speaker 1: on that last song, and the curtain opened and it

1444
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:48,639
Speaker 1: was all the police and firemen from New York. Fuck

1445
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 1: the feeling. I can't describe to you what I felt like,

1446
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: because to return that and to say there, thank you

1447
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,600
Speaker 1: was something else. You know. It was just such a

1448
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:05,880
Speaker 1: moving experience. And I'm not given to goose bumps or stuff,

1449
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you that was a moment. I you know,

1450
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: I can feel it over here and I can't add

1451
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 1: anything to that. So I'll go to a more minor point.

1452
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 1: Why did it end with you? And plant? I was

1453
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: with him twenty six years. We encouraged him to come

1454
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:31,440
Speaker 1: down to London and to get out from the Midlands

1455
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:37,200
Speaker 1: with all the old cronies. I think during that period

1456
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 1: he was with me, we made some great albums Palms,

1457
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: that album, Feed the Nations best solo album, incredible record,

1458
01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 1: Fate of Nations twenty nine, Palms, the two other albums

1459
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 1: I gave him the title for Now and Zen and

1460
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 1: No One. Zen was huge, and then he did the

1461
01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 1: album with Addison Krause, right, that was still when he

1462
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 1: was you were managing him, yeah, oh yeah. So then

1463
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 1: what happened. It came down in a way to a point,

1464
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 1: a principle on my part, and the only way I

1465
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 1: can really really explaining it to you is that we're

1466
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 1: deal in different currencies. And my currency is that I

1467
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 1: believe that the real wealth in life is what you've got,

1468
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 1: is what you've got after they take away the money,

1469
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:45,560
Speaker 1: what you've got left, and that's family, friends and principles.

1470
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: And I've always lived that way. And he deals in

1471
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: a different currency. And if he's got any regrets now,

1472
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 1: then he has to be honest with himself. But for

1473
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,960
Speaker 1: both those guys, I would like to think that I

1474
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:07,479
Speaker 1: did a really good job. And Jimmy bumped into a

1475
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 1: friend of mine, an agent, a few months ago, and

1476
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: he said, has Bill so Rod said, oh, he's great,

1477
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: he said, send him my love. He said, tell him.

1478
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 1: I've only just started realizing how much he really did

1479
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 1: for us. But it's okay. But with Robert, I said

1480
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 1: to him, it's going to come a time. And I

1481
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 1: don't want to sound him modest here, but yet there's

1482
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:36,480
Speaker 1: going to come a time when you're going to realize

1483
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:41,080
Speaker 1: you've lost your best friend. I said, because I would

1484
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:43,600
Speaker 1: have stood in front of a train for you, but

1485
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:47,240
Speaker 1: not anymore. And it was about a point of principle.

1486
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 1: And I don't wish him any ill. I wish him

1487
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 1: every success. But there's a thing about artists, Bob, not

1488
01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:01,960
Speaker 1: all of them, but the majority percent of them. They

1489
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 1: don't have any friends from the past, very few of them.

1490
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 1: What happens is they choose a career that takes them

1491
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:15,240
Speaker 1: away from their childhood and teenage friends, and so they

1492
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: go on a different journey. And while they're on that journey,

1493
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: they lose a sense of loyalty. And what takes over

1494
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: and becomes more important to them is where's my album

1495
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 1: in the chance this week, etcetera, etcetera, and they lose

1496
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 1: their real sense of friendship and loyalty. And I'm big

1497
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: on that. I'm sorry, I'm just really big on it.

1498
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: And so that's what you find with lots of artists,

1499
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:53,360
Speaker 1: and we a lot most of us run away with

1500
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 1: the idea of thinking that arts because they're artists, they're

1501
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 1: nice and good people. They're not. They're not. Listen. I've

1502
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:05,600
Speaker 1: met some of the greatest artists in the world. I

1503
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 1: want to mention them, and they're just unbelievably narcissistic means

1504
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:12,599
Speaker 1: of them. And it's like, you know, they're exceptions who

1505
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: you know live up to them. But no, the other

1506
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,879
Speaker 1: thing about an artist, they'll funk over anybody for themselves exactly.

1507
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: There are number one. So when you take out on board,

1508
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 1: and I'm a personal manager and I give a bit

1509
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 1: more than some other managers, they may get a contract

1510
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: and they put it in their desk and that's it.

1511
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 1: I don't live like that. I don't have a contract

1512
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 1: with the who I haven't had one for forty nine years.

1513
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:43,599
Speaker 1: If they want to leave me tomorrow they're dissatisfied, they

1514
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,840
Speaker 1: can go. I don't want to go through any litigation.

1515
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 1: I just want to be paid for what I've done.

1516
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 1: But it becomes a friendship. Judas Priest have been with

1517
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: me thirty seven years. Again, it's a friendship. You give,

1518
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:00,840
Speaker 1: you become friends. You give the it and I give

1519
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 1: to them a promise. That's what I do. So and

1520
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 1: I've got friends right back to my school days. I

1521
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:11,759
Speaker 1: still go see them in the East End. We're mates.

1522
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 1: Sadly every year ago there's one less. But you know,

1523
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,680
Speaker 1: how about all these old people. I mean, obviously you're

1524
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 1: very successful financially. Do these people your family members ever

1525
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 1: come to you for money? Well? My other what my brothers,

1526
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:29,679
Speaker 1: sisters and people we're brothers and sisters are friends both. Yeah,

1527
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: and how do you feel about that? I'm okay, okay,

1528
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:37,479
Speaker 1: you know what money is. Tell me, money is a

1529
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 1: means to end. Money is a means for you to

1530
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:48,080
Speaker 1: help the people you love enjoy their life. And if

1531
01:37:48,160 --> 01:37:50,480
Speaker 1: you can do that, that's all it is. It's a commodity.

1532
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 1: That's funny because Cliff Bernstein said something very similar to me, like,

1533
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: you know, be able to help people's lives, you know,

1534
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 1: at the same time, So okay, yea, So Pete says

1535
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 1: he can't play live anymore. Well, before that, who say

1536
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 1: we're retiring? I remember making it too, Yeah, I remember

1537
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,439
Speaker 1: making said of my Nakamiti tape deck, you know, and

1538
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 1: then they keep coming back. What's up with that? Well

1539
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:19,000
Speaker 1: in two that's when he said, he said, I want

1540
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:20,720
Speaker 1: to be with my kids. I don't want tour in him.

1541
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:24,720
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago we played Hyde Park and

1542
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:28,360
Speaker 1: Tom mzer Ardino, he was the promoter of the Cotton Bowl.

1543
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:29,640
Speaker 1: On that last tour, he said, I've got a T

1544
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 1: shirt for you. He gave me. It was the Who's Fair.

1545
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 1: But so Pete didn't want to do it. So from

1546
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:40,600
Speaker 1: A two two I think it was a tight. We

1547
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:44,920
Speaker 1: didn't do that interestingly enough. And that's when I picked up.

1548
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 1: Someone said to me, you're interested in Judas Priest. I said, yeah,

1549
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 1: they're good, Lfe Ben. Where are they down in Texas?

1550
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 1: They want to see you? So I went down there.

1551
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:57,880
Speaker 1: And so you know, we had all those years where

1552
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 1: they didn't her, which as have said loss in a way,

1553
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,639
Speaker 1: but um, and now it's turned full circle and Pezz

1554
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:08,560
Speaker 1: the one who wants to tour. He's really enjoying it

1555
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:12,600
Speaker 1: and he wants to tour. And I guess it's in

1556
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 1: all of our minds that, you know, if life's a

1557
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 1: three week holiday, we're on the third week and this Wednesday.

1558
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 1: But what about his hearing issue? About what? I don't

1559
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:28,800
Speaker 1: know if you're saying that as a joke, but Pete

1560
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,679
Speaker 1: farm famously said he had tonight is and he couldn't play, etcetera.

1561
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:35,519
Speaker 1: And then he played acoustic guitar behind plastic you know,

1562
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 1: whatever he did, he had the tonitus and he was

1563
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 1: getting a lot of pain from it. But there are

1564
01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: lots of meds now today that can lessen that, you know,

1565
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 1: and he's finding that. Okay, Pete. One of the problems

1566
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 1: we've got is Roger uses ear monitors and Pete uses

1567
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:56,599
Speaker 1: stage monitors, you know. And I, I mean, I listened

1568
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 1: to this ship and I think, am I really live

1569
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:03,040
Speaker 1: in here in the real world? Or is this the afterworld?

1570
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: Because sometimes they'll come off stage and Roger was saying,

1571
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 1: funking on the stage, I can't fucking hear anything, And

1572
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: I said, you told me that have the fucking silver

1573
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,920
Speaker 1: dome in right right right, you know. So they're all

1574
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:22,320
Speaker 1: getting different sales up there on stage. Um, And I

1575
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 1: can't do anything about that. I said to them, Look,

1576
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:28,479
Speaker 1: I can do everything for you to help you with

1577
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: what happens off the stage. I cannot do anything about

1578
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:35,880
Speaker 1: what's on that stage. I can't be where Pete is

1579
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: when you're playing a song or where you are get

1580
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:41,600
Speaker 1: your ship together. You know you should be able to

1581
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:46,560
Speaker 1: do it. Okay, So moon dies, they play with different drummers,

1582
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:51,200
Speaker 1: then Entwhistle dies just before the tour, they continued to work.

1583
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 1: Is the motivation? What is the motivation for them? If

1584
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 1: it's in your blood, it's in your blood. I don't

1585
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:03,280
Speaker 1: know that you're going to go and do anything else.

1586
01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 1: Pete's got lots of sides to him. He's just finished

1587
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 1: the book Age of Anxiety. He's a constant worker. But

1588
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:14,160
Speaker 1: what else are you going to do? You know, if

1589
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:19,040
Speaker 1: you're given that gift, and it is a gift, what

1590
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 1: else are you going to do? So you do carry on.

1591
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 1: It's got to be the same with Jagger and Richards.

1592
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:29,679
Speaker 1: They they don't need the money. But I've often believed

1593
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:34,400
Speaker 1: that God works in mysterious ways, and in a lot

1594
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 1: of ways he's fair. So what he does is he

1595
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:41,640
Speaker 1: takes someone like these artists and he gives them a

1596
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 1: special gift. He gives them a little bit extra more

1597
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:49,720
Speaker 1: than you, all right, But at the other end he

1598
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 1: leaves something off unless where we fit in. Okay, how

1599
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:58,280
Speaker 1: did the deal with c S I come together? Oh?

1600
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 1: That was I forget who who actually rang me in

1601
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:05,400
Speaker 1: the first place? It was Jack what's his name, Jack Rossman?

1602
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 1: Jack slipped my mind at the moment, but it was.

1603
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:12,760
Speaker 1: It was either Brookheim or somebody who was who was

1604
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 1: a raven Houfen and they were looking for somebody. But somebody,

1605
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 1: as is usual, somebody who's an underling who never ever

1606
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 1: probably got credit for it, said hey, listen to this stuff,

1607
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 1: you know. And it was the synthesizer songs. And it

1608
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 1: was amazing, wasn't it. Because so many people started coming

1609
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 1: to concerts and saying, oh, at least the people who

1610
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:43,320
Speaker 1: do see it, you know. So that's how it came about. Okay,

1611
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:45,680
Speaker 1: but you know, they get the guy's name now. But

1612
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:48,479
Speaker 1: he was from CBS. Okay, But that was he. He

1613
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:51,919
Speaker 1: was one of the first artists of his era, Jack Sussman.

1614
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 1: He was one of the first from his era to

1615
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:59,480
Speaker 1: license these songs. So was he reluctant for a credibility

1616
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 1: did he say, hey, you know, if you're Peter three,

1617
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:04,360
Speaker 1: I'll make the deal. No, he came round to it.

1618
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:07,559
Speaker 1: I remember years ago. I went back and I said him, Pete.

1619
01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 1: It was with the advent of mobile phones, you know.

1620
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:14,160
Speaker 1: I said, Pete, I've got a fantastic deal for you

1621
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 1: with a T and T for going mobile, the song

1622
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:22,000
Speaker 1: co Mobile. I said, I've got a great deal for you.

1623
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:23,800
Speaker 1: He said, Now, I'm not selling songs to that. I'm

1624
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: not doing any of that. No, no, no. And then

1625
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 1: a couple of years later he did a complete turn

1626
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,639
Speaker 1: around and they were picking up whose songs for all

1627
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 1: kinds of I did a deal as well. I mean,

1628
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:39,439
Speaker 1: she worked these artists out. Bob. I did a deal

1629
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:45,040
Speaker 1: with GM Motors for rock and roll, right for led

1630
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:49,759
Speaker 1: Zepplin right. So, and it was a huge, huge amount

1631
01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:54,519
Speaker 1: of money, I'm telling you so. Um. First thing, first

1632
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:57,719
Speaker 1: it was ken million, wasn't it more than that? Okay,

1633
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:03,400
Speaker 1: more than that. So I'm on the road with Robert

1634
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:06,880
Speaker 1: Plant and we're going to go to the jail. And

1635
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,720
Speaker 1: by the way, as part of the deal, I said

1636
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 1: to them, can you give Robert Plant an escalade in

1637
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:16,320
Speaker 1: every city? So he picks up an escalade. When he

1638
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:18,719
Speaker 1: after he's done it, he drops it back at the airport.

1639
01:44:19,439 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 1: We're going to get to Detroit. So I said to him,

1640
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:24,120
Speaker 1: when you get to Detroit, you've got to come to

1641
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: the factory and sign people's albums, you know, I said,

1642
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,320
Speaker 1: the workers. He said, yeah, yeah, okay. So we go

1643
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:33,400
Speaker 1: to the factory and he's great. He's signing all their albums.

1644
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 1: And then the CEO came down, who was a little

1645
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:41,719
Speaker 1: bit to me. The typical American maverick flies his own plane,

1646
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:46,679
Speaker 1: you know whatever, right, you know, So he says, Mr Plant,

1647
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:52,559
Speaker 1: He said, how are you enjoying the escalade? So Plant,

1648
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 1: he looked at him and he went, I like the

1649
01:44:54,760 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 1: fall better. I went, what he said? He's so the

1650
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:03,960
Speaker 1: guy looked at him. He couldn't believe it. So when

1651
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 1: we get outside, I said, are you for fucking real?

1652
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 1: I said, you've had all that money, You've got this.

1653
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:12,479
Speaker 1: He said yeah, he said, but you know, he said,

1654
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:16,080
Speaker 1: that commercial for the escalator it's on TV too much.

1655
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean it's on TV too much?

1656
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:21,719
Speaker 1: That's what they paid for and that's why your kettital

1657
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:26,080
Speaker 1: has gone through the roof. So we get home, he

1658
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 1: phoned me A few weeks afterwards, he said, Bill, he

1659
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 1: said that guy GM. I said, yeah. He said, do

1660
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:36,080
Speaker 1: you think you can phone him up and see if

1661
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:38,200
Speaker 1: you can get us to escaladors one for me and

1662
01:45:38,240 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 1: one for my son. I said, no, I fucking can't

1663
01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:47,679
Speaker 1: tell me to go to forward exactly exactly. Work it out, Okay,

1664
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:49,880
Speaker 1: So that the actus ever get jealous of one another,

1665
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:54,000
Speaker 1: they don't have your time? Yeah, how do you manage that?

1666
01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:57,280
Speaker 1: I think that it's difficult. I think that that was

1667
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:01,920
Speaker 1: one of the problems with Robert plant Um. I think

1668
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: that he resented any time I spent with the who.

1669
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:08,360
Speaker 1: I tried to juggle it as best as possible, but

1670
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 1: I think he resented that a bit. But I was

1671
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 1: forever jumping off one to the other. Um and I'll

1672
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 1: go there. Pete Townsend is the complete complete artist. He

1673
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:31,639
Speaker 1: writes everything, he sings it, he gives you a demo.

1674
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 1: It's phenomenal. The Scoop albums. Yeah, he's the real deal.

1675
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:43,400
Speaker 1: A lot of the others need to partner with someone,

1676
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:47,280
Speaker 1: and I'm not potting them down. They're great artists. But

1677
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, for me, Elton John, I love him. We're friends.

1678
01:46:54,040 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 1: The songs he wrote with Bernie Special songs, Jagger Knees,

1679
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:05,640
Speaker 1: Richards plant needed page. That's all I can say. So

1680
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:08,120
Speaker 1: there is a little bit jellously because Townsend is the

1681
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:14,200
Speaker 1: complete deal. He writes it all complete musician. Okay, So

1682
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:16,200
Speaker 1: what is it you do as a manager that makes

1683
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 1: you so great? But it must be something because you're

1684
01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 1: you're actually talking about There are some managers were traffic cups.

1685
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 1: They deal with the incoming. Then there's some managers were visionaries,

1686
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:30,760
Speaker 1: and you've put out some visionary thing. So are you

1687
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:32,720
Speaker 1: the type of guy who says, listen, I have a plan,

1688
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:34,920
Speaker 1: we're going to do this or that, or you're fielding

1689
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:36,840
Speaker 1: calls or what is it doing? I do a lot

1690
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:40,160
Speaker 1: of that stuff, but I often joke and say what

1691
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 1: I do really really well is I do the unnecessary

1692
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 1: for the ungrateful. But but yeah, I do I plan

1693
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:55,360
Speaker 1: with them. Um. But if I had to say to someone, now,

1694
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:03,080
Speaker 1: what are the essentials for management, I'd say, never be

1695
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:07,759
Speaker 1: afraid to say no, never be afraid to make a mistake,

1696
01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:13,840
Speaker 1: Try as hard as you can to make more successful

1697
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:18,680
Speaker 1: moves than unsuccessful. So at least it's like, well how

1698
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:22,120
Speaker 1: many goals did they score? You know? So that your

1699
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:27,800
Speaker 1: your average, because everybody makes mistakes, everybody, and so you

1700
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:31,959
Speaker 1: have to sit between it. And if you've got four artists,

1701
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,200
Speaker 1: it's much easier. Well maybe it's not asked John Reid

1702
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:37,840
Speaker 1: and people like that who have had solo artists, but

1703
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,960
Speaker 1: it's usually a lot easier with a solo artist because

1704
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:44,720
Speaker 1: you're answering one person with one set of problems than

1705
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:47,400
Speaker 1: it is with three or four. And if those three

1706
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:52,960
Speaker 1: or four of really forceful characters like Daughtry Towns in

1707
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:55,519
Speaker 1: the Moon were and then and Whistle was in his

1708
01:48:55,640 --> 01:49:00,080
Speaker 1: own right he could be quite forceful, then you're juggle in.

1709
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:05,840
Speaker 1: It's difficult. So I don't know really how I've totally

1710
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 1: managed it. It's um okay, Well that's managing the people.

1711
01:49:11,680 --> 01:49:14,599
Speaker 1: How many of the ideas will you say, oh, let's

1712
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 1: play within an orchestra, or oh let's do an album,

1713
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 1: or this is the way the yard should be. A

1714
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: contribute quite a bit to that, but I mean it's

1715
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:25,200
Speaker 1: to give Rogery's dew. It was his idea to come

1716
01:49:25,240 --> 01:49:29,000
Speaker 1: with the orchestra because it used the orchestra only solo

1717
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:32,360
Speaker 1: stuff and it sounded so great. I mean he recorded

1718
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:36,200
Speaker 1: this the concert from Bethel and it was great, and

1719
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:38,760
Speaker 1: when he put it to Pete, Pete was quite skeptical.

1720
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:42,439
Speaker 1: Now Pete sort of loves it. Not only is it

1721
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 1: great and sounds great, but it's easy for him. He's

1722
01:49:46,240 --> 01:49:49,439
Speaker 1: finding it easy up there, you know. So And and

1723
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 1: for me it was a good move on Roger's part

1724
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:57,599
Speaker 1: because he he gave it another dimension, the who music.

1725
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:02,080
Speaker 1: Um what I think that if I've got a forte,

1726
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:05,839
Speaker 1: I think it's in projects, in coming up with projects,

1727
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 1: you know. Um, like with the Quadrophenia movie, going back

1728
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 1: all the way back again. There that guy Frank Roddon.

1729
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:16,320
Speaker 1: He never made a movie. He had made a couple

1730
01:50:16,360 --> 01:50:19,040
Speaker 1: of TV movies and one of them was great. It

1731
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:21,320
Speaker 1: was this true story about a deaf and dumb girl

1732
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:27,200
Speaker 1: who was raped. She she kills the killer, and we

1733
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:30,280
Speaker 1: gave him I was so impressed with him. We gave

1734
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 1: him the Quadrophenia film to do. I think he made

1735
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:37,280
Speaker 1: a masterpiece. He came over here and he made a

1736
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:41,800
Speaker 1: movie for Fox called The Lords of Discipline, great book.

1737
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:45,040
Speaker 1: They ripped the fucking film to pieces. He came back

1738
01:50:45,160 --> 01:50:49,320
Speaker 1: so disillusion he said, I'm never making another film. And

1739
01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: he did a TV series which was huge in England

1740
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:55,479
Speaker 1: called r V the same pet didn't mean much in

1741
01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 1: the rest of the world, and then he did Master Chef,

1742
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,560
Speaker 1: So we don't need a benefit for Frank, right. So

1743
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:09,600
Speaker 1: what are you most proud of in your career? I

1744
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 1: guess I can't really pick out a concert because there's

1745
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:22,680
Speaker 1: been so many superb and superlative concerts. But if I

1746
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 1: had to pick out a concert, I'd have to fall

1747
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:32,400
Speaker 1: on the side of that of nine eleven for the emotion,

1748
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:36,479
Speaker 1: just a sheer emotion of it, although we've had such

1749
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:43,760
Speaker 1: wonderful concerts. But proud, Yeah, the Kennedy Award. But I'm

1750
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:49,439
Speaker 1: proud that I've got two people who trusted me with

1751
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:53,040
Speaker 1: their lives, because that's how I look at it. When

1752
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:57,040
Speaker 1: an artist comes to me, they're putting a life in

1753
01:51:57,120 --> 01:52:03,759
Speaker 1: my hands because there are artistic endeavors and their dreams

1754
01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:08,920
Speaker 1: are their life. And that's what I'm proud of that

1755
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:14,160
Speaker 1: I've managed to manage. I hope I managed to do

1756
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: a good job for them. And you're gonna do it

1757
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:21,040
Speaker 1: till you drop. Yeah, because I wouldn't say I want

1758
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:23,679
Speaker 1: to do it at the same rate and pace. Because

1759
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 1: I enjoyed doing projects as opposed to the band thing now.

1760
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:30,960
Speaker 1: Pete laughed the other day because I said to him, well,

1761
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't fancy going down to the pig and whistle

1762
01:52:33,479 --> 01:52:36,840
Speaker 1: and listen to another young band's problems. I want to

1763
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:38,720
Speaker 1: do projects. I want to do films. I want to

1764
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:40,120
Speaker 1: do this. I want to do it. But it will

1765
01:52:40,160 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 1: always be music. Um so yeah, I mean. And it's

1766
01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:50,679
Speaker 1: about realizing dreams, isn't it. My two My two kids.

1767
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:55,639
Speaker 1: My daughter she's just come out from university. She got

1768
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:59,400
Speaker 1: a great degree in English lit and creative writing. She

1769
01:52:59,479 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 1: wants to go into publishing novels. My boys termed professional

1770
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:09,080
Speaker 1: as a golfer. Um, it's allowing being able to help

1771
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:15,280
Speaker 1: people hopefully realize their dreams. And if the who had

1772
01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 1: dreams when I first met them, and I know they did,

1773
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:23,679
Speaker 1: then I think I've helped them get there and realize

1774
01:53:23,680 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 1: a lot of them. Well, Bill, this has been fantastic.

1775
01:53:27,080 --> 01:53:29,200
Speaker 1: We could go out for like five hours. We've really

1776
01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:31,120
Speaker 1: got the essence of who you are. Thanks so much

1777
01:53:31,120 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: for doing this, and well, it's been a pleasure to

1778
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:38,599
Speaker 1: be here. And what we've managed to do this afternoon

1779
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:43,120
Speaker 1: is to turn crumpy old Bob into nice Bob. Hey, listen,

1780
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:46,040
Speaker 1: I our side away personality til next time. If Bob

1781
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 1: Wes