WEBVTT - Leroy 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:03.159 Previously on Happy Face. 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.120 How did Keith get away with it for so long? 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:08.640 Laverne A. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.560 Pavlanac is accused of four counts of aggravated murder, rape, 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.159 sex abuse, kidnapping, and felony murder for the death of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:16.680 Tanya A. 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:17.240 Bennett. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.680 Pavlanak fed police anonymous tips that led to the arrest 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:22.919 of her longtime boyfriend, John A. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:23.840 Sasnovsky. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.639 Laverne was trying to get rid of her boyfriend. She 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.400 convinced him by saying she had participated in the murder 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:33.199 with John Susnovskian. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.800 If it weren't for the anonymous letter, the case might 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:41.120 well have remained forgotten. Quote Honor about January twentieth, nineteen 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.800 ninety I picked up Sonia Bennett and took her home. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.159 The name is Tanya, not Sonya Bennett, and she was 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.280 killed according to the experts who examined the body on 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.800 the night of January twenty first, not the twentieth. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.920 Melissa and I reached out to Jim McNeely, a retired 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.720 detective from the Moltnomah County Sheriff's Department. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.560 He knew what he was talking about, and he had 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.480 information on those murders that hadn't been in the papers. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.440 Jefferson kind of saw you as a partner in this. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.080 We were conspiring to prove that he was guilty. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.600 There's always been one person Melissa has been afraid to 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:20.560 meet the son of Jefferson's last victim, Don Findley. We 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.480 spoke for a couple of hours, and I was finally 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.880 able to convince him to meet you. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:31.280 And the vies in love vies with. 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.240 I don't know, shine, oh. 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:41.319 Oh. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.440 There's an almost numbing quality to hearing Keith describe as crimes. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.800 The details are almost too horrific to fully absorb. We 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.440 know the way he tied women up, how he beat 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.440 raped and stopped them from breathing, And yet some seem 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.639 more shocked to hear how he tortured a cat than 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.920 how many women's lives he took. But over a period 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.120 of five years from nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety five, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.160 Keith murdered at least eight women. His last victim was 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:30.960 Julianne Winningham, But Keith Hunter jesperson, decimated countless lives beyond 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.679 the ones he took, including that of Julie's son, Don Fendley. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.359 I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is happy face. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.280 From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olson. 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.560 The morning after I killed Julie Winningham, my eighth victim, 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.560 I drove to Vancouver, Washington to get my driver's license renewed. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.240 On my way, I thought about moving Julie's body farther 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.040 from the road, but I decided it was too much 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.440 bother I drove straight through to Baker City, Oregon, and 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.720 played a little cribbage. I made a few bucks and 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.480 hit on some of the women. I gave a couple 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.400 of Julie's old coats to a cute girl from Boise. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.360 So who is Don Findley and why are you so 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:30.480 afraid to meet him? 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.560 Don Finley is the son of Julie Winningham, my father's 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:41.400 last victim. He was present the entire trial of his 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:46.680 mother's murder, and he faced my father in court. I 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.760 first heard about him by reading the Oregonian and his 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:56.760 statements in court. I instantly wanted to meet him decades ago, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.400 and have made attempts to reach out to him and 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:05.040 been rejected. I had heard that he wanted to do 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.840 the things that my dad did to his. 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:08.000 Mom to me. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.280 Where did you hear that from. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.400 A producer when I had the show Monster in My Family. 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.400 The whole premise of the show is to connect perpetrator's 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.599 family members with victims family members, and the number one 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.040 person I wanted to meet was done, so I had 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.120 a producer reach out to him, and that producer had 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.640 relayed the information to me that he he had thought 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.520 about that, that he thought about harming me in the 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.360 same fashion that my dad had harmed his mom, because. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:44.360 He wanted revenge by taking something from your dad. I 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.800 think that he he vilified you quite a bit, and 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.000 he thought that you had this perfect, wonderful life and 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.800 that you had never suffered because of the harm your 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.520 father had inflicted upon people. And I told him a 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.000 little bit about your work and about the fact that 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.159 you really wanted You've spent your entire adult life trying 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.640 to atone for your dad's crimes and sins. And I 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:17.600 think that he had never really looked at the ramifications 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:22.159 of your dad's actions on his family and his children. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.920 And so he decided he. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.720 Was touch and go, but he said that he'd be 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.039 willing to try. I mean, he never gave me a 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:34.760 guarantee that he was actually going to show. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:48.359 Up My hope is that it's several things. Honestly, my 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.440 real hope is I just want to say I'm sorry. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:57.440 I want him to know how sorry I am. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.200 For what my father did. 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:07.560 It's just true, true sadness for what happened. And I 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.680 can't offer any restitution or bring his mom back, and 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:17.040 my sorrow for his mom's loss isn't enough. There's nothing 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.080 I could give him, but I definitely want him to 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.720 know how sorry I am. I think that's the best 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.880 I can offer. That's all I can offer. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.359 Let it happen. Look at I mean this is the 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.120 place he picked. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.480 I mean this is adorable. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.440 Okay, so we're looking at the most adorable little seaside 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.680 cafe that's actually sitting on the water. And to get 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.440 there you have to walk on this kind of metal 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:59.120 grate that rocks back and forth. The cafe is this cheerful, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.960 turquoise blue. It sits not by the water, but on 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.799 the water. I think it's gonna be an interesting meeting. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:11.520 He picked it, he picked this location. This feels very friendly. 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:14.400 I don't know, I'm. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.360 Cheerful, it's peaceful. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.280 It's hard because. 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.960 I'm because I don't know what I'm gonna walk into. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:28.360 Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Walking on this it's 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:29.320 like walking on still. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:33.960 I'll be right back. 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.040 Don asked that we not roll audio until after they'd 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:38.960 had a chance to meet. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.000 I think that's him. I think I think he's behind me. 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.320 This guy's arms crossed. I'm gonna turn turn my back 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.200 so I'm sweet can meet with Lauren. I'm glad Lauren's 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.119 meeting with him first. He he looks, he looks tense. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:07:59.920 Hm. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:05.400 I like the location he picked. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.720 I gestured for Melissa to come over, and she had 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:18.640 to cross this metal plank to get back from where 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.200 she was standing on the water to me. And Melissa 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:27.440 is shaking so hard that the entire thing is trembling 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.520 as she's walking because she's so nervous. And she walks 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:37.320 up to Don and without saying anything, he opens up 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:43.280 his arms and they embrace, and Melissa just starts sobbing. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:49.560 It was one of the most beautiful moments I think 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:54.680 I've gotten to witness as a producer. There was such 0:08:55.120 --> 0:09:00.280 a vulnerability and strength on both side of that hug, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:06.120 and it's as if it ripped open a scab on 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.360 Melissa's soul. She just sobbed. 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:12.839 God. It was. 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.360 When he hugged me and just stretched his arms and 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:24.840 he hugged me, it felt like the wash of forgiveness 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:32.360 purified my heart, Like it just melted away my anxiety, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.439 an anxiety that was interwoven in my fibers of my being. 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.280 Like I didn't realize how tense I've been walking my 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.440 life until he hugged me. And it was like this 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:51.120 relaxation and solace that I've never felt before. And it 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.760 was something that I thought I could seek in religion 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.079 and find that solace through a forgiveness of a loving God. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.640 And to say, you know, but when Dawn hugged me, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.960 it was like, all as well, the past is washed 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:13.160 away and I'm free. I'm forgiven and free to walk 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.240 my life as I need to walk. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:19.040 That was a lot. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.959 Yeah, if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:23.199 right or don't do it at all. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:24.239 Yeah. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:25.040 And it's got to. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.920 Come out girl, Sorry, And it's gonna be the hardest. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.640 Yeah, because this whole time. 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.760 I can only imagine what your thoughts are sitting back. 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:35.880 Like I said, I've put. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.839 Myself in your shoes and I can't imagine. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:40.880 But maybe I am. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.680 The missing limb, and you know, I can't even put 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.319 myself in your shoes, like I don't even know. I 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:49.840 don't know how you did it. I don't know how 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.560 you are here like I. 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.480 We settled into the cafe, but for more privacy, we 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:04.600 decided to head back outside to a quiet bench overlooking water, so. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.760 I'm in a better spot. More questions do you have first? 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.000 I mean, I'm sure you've been pondering what I think. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.720 What I would like to know first is I briefly 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:25.120 met your mom. Okay, yeah, I'd like to whatever you 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.120 want to tell me about your mom. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:35.559 And well, my mom stayed here in campus with her 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:40.600 mom and was tossed between her dad, who lived in California, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:41.960 where I was born and raised. 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:44.720 She wasn't an educated woman. 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:53.000 She was a very energetic, positive, adventurous walked her own path, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.920 but because of her own education, she had to do 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:02.800 certain things to get by life. I mean back in 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.880 the day, she supposedly had married a truck driver just 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.400 as big as your father, but he was from Arkansas 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.200 and they got divorced. So my mom had me, and 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.120 she wasn't around a lot in my life because she 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:19.920 was on her own little journey and was scared of 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:26.040 the family who raised you. My dad's mom, my mom's 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.040 step mom, and my mom's dad. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:31.760 Why my dad worked all the time. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:33.000 What did he do? 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:40.600 My dad was a regional manager for an auditing company and. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.000 They got divorced. Dad got custody. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:50.000 Mom wasn't around, and she traveled the United States and 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.960 liked to do her own thing. Everybody loved her. She 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.120 wasn't a drunk, She wasn't an alcoholic or drug addict. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:01.640 She uah. 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.240 This is the stuff. The media don't know what I'm 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.000 about to tell you. No one knows this. I haven't 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.680 told anybody because they ask, but they don't. It's all 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.840 been about unfortunately, it's been about you and your father. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.560 When these people tell me what they're promising me right, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.400 I was under the influence that I'm supposed to help people, 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.600 but the little thirty second segments aren't long enough to 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:27.200 help people. 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.280 One of the things Don wanted to clarify that he 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.240 believes the media got absolutely wrong was his mother, Julie's 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.840 relationship with Keith. As we know, Keith broke his rules 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.760 for Julie. It was the first time he'd killed someone 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.760 he dated and really knew In fact, when Keith introduced 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.480 Julie to Melissa or talked to Melissa about her, he'd 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.520 referred to Julie as his fiance. But Don takes issue 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:55.719 with this. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.960 My mom was living in Utah. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.000 I talked to her on February eleventh, because her birthday 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.480 was February twelfth, the mine was February twentieth. There was 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.240 no talk of your father. My mom was not in 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.480 a relationship. She was living with a girlfriend and a kid. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.000 She was telling me that she was on her way 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:21.680 down here to Camus to visit with their mom. She 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:27.320 had met your father in nineteen ninety two prior, and 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.720 she knew how to work the truck stops because she 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.880 drove truck and did her thing, and he offered her 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.720 a ride. To hear, he must not have had any 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.040 pickups because they hung out in town for a couple 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:45.160 of weeks. Okay, they were not in a relationship. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.760 You can hear in Don's voice how angry he is 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.400 about the idea that Keith and his mother were ever together. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.800 There is also a pain that comes from the constant 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.840 reminders of his mother. Everywhere he goes, he visits places 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.960 she frequented, and he drives past the scene of her 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:06.720 murder on a daily basis. 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:15.960 Every day up my life since then, I tryed. I 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.560 have to try buy it every day I can. Fishing 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:20.680 in the beautiful. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.040 Corse, I gotta drive right by it. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.240 I didn't run. I faced it head on. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:32.960 I kept crushing my heart. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.760 The long haul trucker told a Clark County Sheriff's Office 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.960 detective by phone that he strangled Julianne Winningham, forty one, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.680 while raping her in the sleeper car of his rig 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.920 after gagging her with duct tape. Winningham's nude body was 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.280 found March eleventh, dumped down a bank of a viewpoint 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.160 along Highway fourteen in the Columbia River gor four miles 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:02.119 east of Wasshugel. 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.680 The scenery wasn't the only reminder of his mother's murder, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.560 so was his name. After his mom's death, Don changed 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.520 his name to Leroy. It's actually part of why he 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.000 was so difficult for me to track down. I had 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.840 to go through Leroy to get to Don. We asked 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.320 him a little bit about why he chose that name. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.160 I was living in San Diego, working at a car wash, 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.920 had friends in bands, and just living a fun life. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.960 I was looking pot doing drugs. I was up for 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.560 three days. When I got the phone call at work, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:53.800 I went ballistic. I pulled off kitchen sinks, punched the wood. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.320 Then I walked home and I fell in the middle 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:01.120 of the main street and cried. So this is where 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.880 Leroy comes into play. I came up here for the trials. 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.639 I got a job telemarketing. They asked me if I 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.159 had a nickname. I said Leroy. They put Leroy up 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.480 on the board, so I started telling people my name 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.040 was Leroy, even though they're seeing me every day on 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.840 the news. I mean, not only did I not know anybody, 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.920 but I found a job and a place to live 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:28.880 to be able to see this to the end. 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.600 My family was not there for me. No one's ever 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:32.760 asked me if I was okay. 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.280 I want to know what happily you found out. You 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.320 came up here. Why did you have to go to 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:38.040 the Morgue. 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.720 Well, the reason I had to go to the Morgue 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.000 was because my mom wasn't around a lot in my life, 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.399 and I had to physically see her that way to 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.760 know that she's dead, or otherwise I would still think 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.840 she's on a traveling around doing her thing because we 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:55.920 didn't talk that often. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:57.320 She wasn't around a lot. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.640 I'm going back to how you had to see your mom. 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:04.520 I can't imagine. 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:09.600 You you saw her after what? Yeah, I don't even 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:10.520 know what she looked like. 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:11.879 Yeah, I want to know. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.480 I want to know, sir, because you have to see it. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.920 I want to know what you saw. 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:25.320 All right, Well, I show up. It's underneath the jail. 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:27.320 It's really like the movies. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:33.199 Long long, long, long, long long long. They open up 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:40.199 a room, white walls, silver table. My mom has a 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:45.520 sheet covered up to her neck. I see from her 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:51.480 face a mark from here to here. That's why, as 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:56.280 black as day's night, I see shrub marks on her 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.680 cheeks from where she rolled down through the berry briars. 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:05.119 I also see. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.360 The top of my mom's head, just sitting on top 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.920 of her head because they did the aptosy on her brain, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:12.520 so it was just. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:14.520 There. 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:27.440 That's the last time I saw my mom. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.280 What are you do with those images? 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:38.240 Mask them? They go away. She was such a beauty lady. 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.960 He stuck his fist down my mother's throat to make 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:55.080 sure she was dead. Duck taped her, suffocated her, raped her, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.160 carried him around in the cap of his truck, drove 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.320 up the mountain. She lost her like a fucking piece 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.400 of garbage, and the next time I see her she's 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:03.760 like that. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.560 I truly can't explain the anger and ate I've had 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.960 over the years towards this, but I've had. I had 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.520 to put it past me. I had to because otherwise 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.760 I'm not going to be happy, and I need to 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.200 be happy. 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.000 I was wearing just my shoes and a shirt when 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.840 I headed east. I knew she would wake up soon 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.439 and then she'd really no terror. I breaked hard at 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.720 a stop sign and heard her grunt. She tried to 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.280 get into the front passenger seat, but fell to the 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.800 floor and cut her forehead on the seat pedestal. 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:52.880 A little pool of blood formed. 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.480 I reached down and patted her on the back and said, 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.520 nice of you to join me, Julie, and stay there 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.160 until I stop up ahead, and then you'll find out 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:05.119 what's going to happen to you. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.120 Melissa and Don had been wrestling with the past for 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.200 so long, trying to come to terms with its impact 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.960 on their lives, and they were both eager to share 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:30.400 their experiences. 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.399 I don't know what you know, I don't know much, 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:36.959 but I don't know what you want to know. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.960 The Feds everybody, they figured out what trucking company he 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.040 worked for. And by the way, I see that trucking 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.480 company every day on the road. So you can imagine 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.320 my thoughts going through. You know, I see it too, Okay, 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.239 and it's got to be hard for us. So they 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.760 found out what trucking company he worked for. He was 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.000 on a run. He was going to go pick up 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:02.119 a load in New Mexico. Okay, okay, So they called Hani. 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.560 They said he's gonna be in New Mexico. The local 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.240 police went there with the FEDS because it's out of jurisdiction. 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:11.640 Did the blood. 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.080 Urine and something else sample for him? They have to 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.040 bring it back here to test it. Before they get back, 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.760 he calls and says he tried to kill. 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.760 Himself by eating a bottle of Thailand. All they go back, 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.160 they arrest him, and the trials start. 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:38.400 Yeah, the detectives came up to Spokane and they questioned 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.240 my mom and then they they didn't tell her anything. 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.639 Then she said, uh to my brother or sister, and 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.960 I that your dad's in jail. Then my brother's like 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.200 for what it is, she said, for murder. 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.880 Just remember just feeling like this is this is not real? 0:22:59.160 --> 0:22:59.480 He had. 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:07.119 I went to my uh my cot, laid down on him. 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:11.840 Did I just cried the whole night. He had wondered 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.600 who it was, what happened, how did it happen? And 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:18.399 he had a picture A million different things in my 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:24.320 head and I wanted answers. Nobody would just tell me. 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.240 I just wanted to know. And that's why I started 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.560 looking at the Orgonian and reading everything. And it was 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.760 hard to read it, but in a way it was 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:37.080 kind of a you know, a blessing in disguise, because 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:39.320 I don't know if I could have handled hearing it 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:41.880 from your words in real life. I think just reading 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.600 it there was a there was a state of removal, 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.720 you know, I was somewhat removed when I could read 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:50.960 from a distance what was happening over here and what 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:52.200 was happening with your life? 0:23:53.480 --> 0:24:00.760 This bra. 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:23.080 Four pike A right, this is where it happened. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:24.280 What is this? 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.760 This is the spot. It used to be an empty 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.160 lot until two years ago. 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:30.120 I thought she was found on a roof. 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.600 Hold on, I'll show you if you stop right here. 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:37.080 This was an empty lot, and his eighteen wheeler was 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:38.040 parked right here. 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:38.760 Okay. 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:41.679 The bar he was at is just not even at 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.280 the quarter of a mile up the road. My grandmother, 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.560 my mom's mom, lived three blocks up the road. 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:52.679 So his truck was parked here. Okay, this is where he. 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:54.800 Did what he did to my mom right here in 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:56.639 this lot. 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.080 With it was a parking. 0:24:57.800 --> 0:24:59.960 Lot though, yeah, parking lot. You know, there was no 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.439 store here, There was no nothing here. His truck is 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:06.919 right here. My mom comes from the bar up the road. 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:09.639 They talk about the money issue. 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:12.879 He what was the money issue? 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:14.760 What was she to me? 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:15.640 Explain that to me. 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:21.880 So basically, after listening to your father and saying how 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.119 one of the victims asked him for money after he 0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:29.280 was already done with her, that reminded him of his 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.040 wife and that's what made him snap. And I remember 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:36.840 him saying this in one of his interviews. Well, my 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:39.879 mom went to the bartender and he was too busy. 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:44.320 My mom needed some money. Came to jessperson, your dad. 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:49.119 My mom had gotten into a car accident. Your dad's 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:53.520 signature was on the bill of sell, so my mom 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:57.080 came to town with him. They were hanging out I'm 0:25:57.119 --> 0:25:58.399 assuming my mom had a car. 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:01.720 My mom was working. Something happened. 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:07.240 She went to your father for money, asking him nicely 0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:12.680 because she wasn't a gold digger or anything, and he snapped. 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:16.560 Where we're going next is on Highway fourteen. 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:20.640