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Speaker 1: Technology with tex Stuff from Hooks dot Com. Say there

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Speaker 1: and welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, and with

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Speaker 1: me today is a very special guest, our own photographical

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Speaker 1: expert here at hell Stuff, where it's Dylan. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Thanks thanks for having me. Yeah, Dylan and

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Speaker 1: I have had some really cool discussions about the technology

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Speaker 1: of photography and some different ideas around it, and Dylan

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Speaker 1: has generously offered up some of his precious time to

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Speaker 1: jump into the studio to talk about photo manipulation and

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Speaker 1: photo editing. So this is going to be a two

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Speaker 1: part podcast. We know that starting off, we're gonna concentrate

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Speaker 1: on sort of the pre digital era for this first episode,

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Speaker 1: and then our next one will be kind of the

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Speaker 1: various techniques and motivations behind photo manipulation and the post

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Speaker 1: digital era where we're no longer talking necessarily about physical

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Speaker 1: media but lots of zeros and ones instead. But the

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me is that photo manipulation has

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Speaker 1: been around almost as long as photography has, and in

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Speaker 1: large part because of the limitations of photography, especially the

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Speaker 1: early days, it was kind of seen early on as okay,

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Speaker 1: well we have the foundation down now, how do we

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Speaker 1: make up for all the things that we can't do

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Speaker 1: at least yet. You know, you don't know in their

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Speaker 1: mind if they knew that was going to be a

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Speaker 1: possibility in the future, but um, it kind of gave

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Speaker 1: them the ability to add to a photo what cameras

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Speaker 1: were not able to do at the moment. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those early cameras were incredibly limited. And uh, you know

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Speaker 1: it helps if we take kind of a step back

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Speaker 1: and look at a little bit of history. And by

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Speaker 1: a little bit of history, I mean I've created a

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Speaker 1: timeline to kind of walk us through the early development

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Speaker 1: no pun intended. Okay, no, that was definitely a pun

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Speaker 1: intended of photography. So before we get to any photography

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Speaker 1: at all, before we get to the point where we're

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Speaker 1: recording light onto some medium, we can talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the camera obscura, which was not necessarily about

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Speaker 1: recording recording images, but more about projecting them. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: this is ancient technology. I mean, when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: the basic technology was a dark chamber or room through

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Speaker 1: which you have a hole in one wall and then

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Speaker 1: you can project across the on the opposite wall. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, what you saw on the opposite wall would

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Speaker 1: be correct in perspective, but it would be eight degrees

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Speaker 1: rotating a hundred degrees. It would be upside down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I I have often seen this used as a

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Speaker 1: way for artists who wanted to do a big wall mural.

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Speaker 1: For example, they would have an image on one side,

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Speaker 1: so it would be projected large on the opposite where

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Speaker 1: they could actually trace things out, although not all artists

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Speaker 1: were very capable of doing this, and it wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: until the Renaissance. Like even though the technology itself was

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Speaker 1: thousands of years old in the sense that the ancient

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Speaker 1: Chinese and Greeks were using the sort of yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really does. It's always like it's always like, well you

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Speaker 1: have you gotta look to the Middle East and you

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Speaker 1: gotta look to China for some of these amazing developments

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Speaker 1: that took a long time to make their way to

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Speaker 1: the Western world. But in the Renaissance, there was an

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Speaker 1: Italian writer named Gia Batista de la Porta who was

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Speaker 1: really the first to use a lens arrangement in camera scares.

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Speaker 1: It was more than just the simple hole or a mirror.

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Speaker 1: It was a lens. And uh, that's where we started

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Speaker 1: really calling it camera obscura. And then you move ahead

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Speaker 1: about a hundred years to and that's when a gentleman

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Speaker 1: by the name of Johann Heinrich Schulz uh noticed something

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Speaker 1: really odd. In fact, it was something that other people

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Speaker 1: had noticed, but he was the one who actually put

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Speaker 1: two and two together. We're talking silver salts here. Now,

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Speaker 1: silver salts, when exposed to light, uh get darker. And

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Speaker 1: this is a major part of early photography. But for

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Speaker 1: a long time people thought that it was heat that

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Speaker 1: made the salts turn dark. Now, what Schultz did was

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Speaker 1: he had an experiment where he he had essentially a

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Speaker 1: surface covered in silver salts, and he put a covering

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Speaker 1: over it so that he could spell out a word

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Speaker 1: in the silver salt, and then exposed that to light

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Speaker 1: and it made those salts turn dark. So he actually

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Speaker 1: could spell out words using light this way, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't have any way of preserving it. There's no way

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Speaker 1: for him to keep this so that it would permanently

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Speaker 1: have this word. In fact, as soon as you remove

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Speaker 1: the covering and the rest of the salts are exposed

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Speaker 1: to light, everything turns dark. So it's like you have

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Speaker 1: a temporary image. It's kind of like the snapchat of

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Speaker 1: its day. Yeah, that a very very kind of simple

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Speaker 1: snapchat where someone would have to be in there with

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Speaker 1: you and be like, all right, you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: look at this right now, because as soon as I

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Speaker 1: turn on the light, this sucker, it's it's it's time

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Speaker 1: will be very limited a latent image. Um yeah, in

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Speaker 1: a way that like if you see something very bright

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Speaker 1: and you close your eyes right there, it is first second. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be until the eighteen twenties. That's when

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Speaker 1: a fellow by the name of Anissa four neepsie, thank

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Speaker 1: you for pronouncing that. That's a guess my French jump.

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Speaker 1: Papa francis bien mais, So I am not very good

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Speaker 1: with the French pronunciation. I haven't had a French since

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Speaker 1: high school, so I apologize for butchering the name. But

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Speaker 1: he developed a technique to use light in order to

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Speaker 1: make copies of engravings. And what he would do is

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Speaker 1: he would take it engraving and cover it an oil,

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Speaker 1: and then he would put the engraving on a plate

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Speaker 1: that was coated with a combination of lavender oil and

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Speaker 1: vitamin of Judea, which is a light sensitive material. And

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, and he had the first successful image in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixteen. Yeah, amazing, right, Like he was able to

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Speaker 1: use this and he called the process heliography, meaning from

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Speaker 1: the sun to right, So it was close to photography,

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Speaker 1: but he was calling it heliography. By eighteen twenty six,

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Speaker 1: he was using that process on lots of stuff like

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Speaker 1: lithographic stone, on glass, on zinc, and on pewter plates.

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Speaker 1: And in eighteen six he used a camera obscura and

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Speaker 1: pewter plate to produce a photograph from nature. It was

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Speaker 1: an image of the courtyard of his estate. It was

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Speaker 1: taken from an upstairs balcony and over the course of

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Speaker 1: eight hours. Yes, it took a number of hours. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was the real issue where with these early approaches

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Speaker 1: is that they had not perfected the chemistry necessary to

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Speaker 1: have this reaction of light that would affect chemicals in

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Speaker 1: such a way as to preserve an image. What's really

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Speaker 1: funny is that the lens technology was much farther ahead

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Speaker 1: from the start than the chemistry, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: early photography was really only limited by the chemicals involved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you would end up having these super long exposure

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Speaker 1: times in the In some cases it meant that the

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Speaker 1: the image you produced is otherworldly because in the case

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Speaker 1: of this one with a courtyard, the lights coming from

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Speaker 1: the sun and it's over the course of eight hours,

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Speaker 1: which reads, the sun starts in the east and ends

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Speaker 1: in the west. So in the finished image you have

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Speaker 1: light from the sun shining from both directions. It's as

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Speaker 1: if you know, obviously we don't live in a world

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Speaker 1: where you can really do that in a in an

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Speaker 1: in stint, you would have to have this long exposure

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Speaker 1: time in order to achieve that so kind of a

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Speaker 1: special effect just by the very limitation of the media itself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the exposure time is early on would would make things,

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Speaker 1: like you said, look very otherworldly. And it was just

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Speaker 1: because it was out of necessity, that's what they had. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have any option really, Like it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with shutter speed or any

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Speaker 1: of the other stuff we talked about with cameras. It

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Speaker 1: had specifically to do with the limitation of the materials,

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Speaker 1: the chemicals they were using. By eighteen thirty three, that's

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Speaker 1: when we first start seeing the term photograph being used. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, it was apparently coined by a fellow

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Speaker 1: named Hercules Florence or Hercule floren if you want to

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Speaker 1: be fancy. Uh. He coined the term, using it to

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Speaker 1: describe a process in which he used paper with silver

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Speaker 1: salts to produce prints of drawings. However, his work actually

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Speaker 1: largely took place in Brazil, and because Brazil was so

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Speaker 1: far removed from all the other areas that we're looking into,

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Speaker 1: this mostly in Europe, his work remained largely unknown until

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. And I would like to notice is

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Speaker 1: really interesting work. It's something to look into. He had

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Speaker 1: some nice photographs, yeah. Yeah. And and our next fellow

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Speaker 1: who made a big impression on photography is one that

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Speaker 1: probably most people have heard, at least heard the technology

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Speaker 1: named after him. That would be uh, Louis jacquesmand the

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Speaker 1: Gare type. Yeah. So he used the camera obscura in

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Speaker 1: a plate of iodized silver, which would allow him to

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Speaker 1: create a latent image of a scene. That's what Dylan

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Speaker 1: was talking about just a minute ago. And he found

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Speaker 1: that if you expose that plate to mercury vapor, the

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Speaker 1: exposed parts of the image, the ones that had been

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Speaker 1: exposed to light, would become visible, so it would develop.

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Speaker 1: This is where we start talking about developing photographs, and

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Speaker 1: that approach reduced the exposure times needed eventually from eight

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Speaker 1: hours down to around half an hour ish um using

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Speaker 1: this particular approach, But there was a drawback. If the

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Speaker 1: developed picture was exposed to light, like after you've taken it,

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Speaker 1: then the unexposed areas of silver would continue to darken

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Speaker 1: and eventually the image would become impossible to see. So

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Speaker 1: you'd have an image for a while. But again, imagine

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Speaker 1: that you have a photograph in your hand and you

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Speaker 1: take it out anywhere where there's light, and it would

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Speaker 1: just gradually become a dark picture, like there will be

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Speaker 1: no no, no way of distinguishing what was there before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like like it before you expose film and a film

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Speaker 1: camera if anyone's ever done that, you have to go

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Speaker 1: into a pitch black room to do so because once

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Speaker 1: you open the back of the light tight camera, when

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Speaker 1: if you have that film exposed to the you know,

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Speaker 1: to light, it's it's just gonna go completely dark. You're

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to take any photographs with

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Speaker 1: that role of film right now, Dylan, have you ever

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Speaker 1: worked in the dark room? I have, yes, So what

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Speaker 1: is what is it like when you are doing something

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Speaker 1: like that, like you know the the we've seen movies

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Speaker 1: with the process where you've got the people with like

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Speaker 1: the three or four different little basins filled with fluid

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Speaker 1: and there's never any explanation of what was actually happening.

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Speaker 1: It is. It's an updated version of something like the

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Speaker 1: gear was doing. The chemicals are a lot less dangerous

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Speaker 1: using mercury. You're a lot less likely to go crazy

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Speaker 1: or catch on fire. Yes, yes, but it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a process, but it's something that I think if you're

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Speaker 1: interested in photography you should you should try the development process,

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Speaker 1: um because from going into the closet to load your film,

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Speaker 1: figuring out how to open something and put it in

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Speaker 1: the back of the camera in Pitch Black, is is

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Speaker 1: a lot of it's frustrating, but it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: And then you you know, even to the I don't

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Speaker 1: want to get too ahead of us, but the photo

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Speaker 1: the process of taking a photographs a lot different because

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Speaker 1: you realize you have like twelve to thirties six shots

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Speaker 1: and so it's it's not like on your phone or

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Speaker 1: on your digital camera, which is which is great freedom.

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Speaker 1: But you think I paid I paid money for this

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Speaker 1: film and it makes you much more selective and careful,

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Speaker 1: and and only that, but I mean even that is

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Speaker 1: a huge step from what we're talking about here, where

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Speaker 1: taking a single image required so much effort just the

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Speaker 1: not just the taking it, but the developing of that

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Speaker 1: single image took so much effort that obviously the composition

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Speaker 1: of your shot was really important. And if you messed

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Speaker 1: that up, you're talking about a day's work. In some cases,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of for one image. It's it's easy

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Speaker 1: for us to forget that in the realm of selfies

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Speaker 1: that we have today. Yeah, so I'll definitely be relying

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Speaker 1: upon you heavily when we start talking about manipulation in

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Speaker 1: this world. But to get back to the history, just

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Speaker 1: a couple more points I want to make. Uh, So

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Speaker 1: we've got to get who starts solving the problem of

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Speaker 1: this image immediately disappearing if you were to expose it

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Speaker 1: to light by using ordinary table salt. Actually, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: put it in a water solution. You got your sodium

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Speaker 1: chloride solution. He would use that to dissolve the unexposed

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Speaker 1: silver iodide that was left on the paper, So that

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Speaker 1: way the exposed stuff had already been exposed it's fine.

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Speaker 1: You dissolve everything else, so now that stuff can't end

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Speaker 1: up going dark, and you're left with your image and

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Speaker 1: you could fix it permanently because light can no longer

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Speaker 1: ruin them. And uh, Eventually the gere would find a

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Speaker 1: way of producing photographs on silvered copper plate, which was

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Speaker 1: kind of his his medium of choice from that point forward. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: there was another fellow, William Henry Fox Talbot, who was

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Speaker 1: working on a different approach to create photographic images of

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Speaker 1: scientific observations. The reason all right, he was a scientist,

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Speaker 1: not he wasn't necessarily interested in photography. Originally he was

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Speaker 1: interested in science. But he had a problem. He couldn't

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Speaker 1: draw at all. He had like he would try all

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Speaker 1: these sort of things that he would just trace using

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Speaker 1: a camera obscura didn't matter. He found himself incapable of

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Speaker 1: doing that. I find myself sympathizing heavily with him. I

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Speaker 1: have a distinct lack of artistic ability when it comes

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Speaker 1: to that. So he wanted to find a way to

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Speaker 1: preserve scientific observations exactly as they were and record them

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Speaker 1: in a way that would not require him to draw

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Speaker 1: in any way, shape or fashion. So he started to

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Speaker 1: look into a way to create photographic prints on paper,

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Speaker 1: not using plates like the gear was using. So he

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Speaker 1: used paper soaked in solutions of sodium chlor ride and

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Speaker 1: silver nitrate in order to produce silver chloride infused paper.

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Speaker 1: And if he exposed that paper to light, it would

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Speaker 1: cause the exposed parts to become dark, and that would

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Speaker 1: create a negative image. If he took another sheet of

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Speaker 1: this and put it against the one that had been

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Speaker 1: exposed and then exposed that to light, that would create

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Speaker 1: a positive image on the second sheet. And for the

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Speaker 1: first time, you could get hypothetically more than one print

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Speaker 1: from a picture. Yes, you were not limited to whatever

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Speaker 1: the original plate was. Now you could produce multiple prints,

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Speaker 1: assuming that everything stayed intact through this process, which was painstaking.

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Speaker 1: It was still not easy to do um and in fact,

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Speaker 1: there were times where it took some experimentation with this

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Speaker 1: approach to get it to work just right, because often

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Speaker 1: they were having quality issues with transferring the image from

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Speaker 1: the negative to the the secondary sheet. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until nine that Talbot felt that he had really nailed it.

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Speaker 1: He had actually talked with his friend, an astronomer named

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Speaker 1: Sir John herschel Uh in a way to fix the

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Speaker 1: negatives using sodium thiosulfate, which at the time they called

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Speaker 1: sodium hypo sulfate, and found that that was what allowed it.

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Speaker 1: And then then he heard about the Gear and he thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: because this is the era of everyone trying to get

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Speaker 1: patents for things to protect their ideas so that other

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Speaker 1: folks don't just run away with him. So he immediately

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Speaker 1: rushes to publication to beat the French to the punch

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Speaker 1: because he knew that the French publication about the Gears

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Speaker 1: work was coming. So he said, well, I can't drag

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Speaker 1: my feet on this and rushed ahead. Uh and this

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Speaker 1: is a story we hear over and over again in technology.

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Speaker 1: It's not you know, radio was another big one like that,

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Speaker 1: so television as well. So eighteen forty was the March

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty was really when the first photography studio that

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Speaker 1: we know of opened, And it was in New York,

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Speaker 1: Oric City, and it was it was called the Dagarin

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Speaker 1: Parlor and it was operated by Alexander Woolcott. And uh,

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Speaker 1: so you finally had a place that was open to

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Speaker 1: the public. It was no longer these uh the scientists, physicists, researchers,

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Speaker 1: and others who were all interested in this concept. Now

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Speaker 1: it was something that ordinary people could have some access to,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of a long road to making photography very personal, yes,

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Speaker 1: and also the birth of our era of narcissism. That's

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Speaker 1: probably being unkind uh. And around around this time you

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Speaker 1: also started to see improvements in both lens design, camera design,

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Speaker 1: and the chemical processes that meant that development time had

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Speaker 1: decreased significantly enough where you could sit for a portrait

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Speaker 1: without having to stay absolutely still for three hours, which

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Speaker 1: that's good. Uh. You know. Suddenly, suddenly portraiture became more

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Speaker 1: of an attainable thing for families, and it became very

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Speaker 1: popular pretty early on, especially by the eighteen sixties to

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Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties. It became it was a huge movement

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Speaker 1: at that point, and there are lots more things that

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Speaker 1: happened from that point forward. Obviously, there was the development

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Speaker 1: of Calow type, which is a negative development process that

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Speaker 1: Talbot had created that made photography on paper more practical

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Speaker 1: by reducing the exposure times down to one minute. Pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Stereoscopic photography became a thing that's when

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Speaker 1: you take two images using cameras or lenses that approximate

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Speaker 1: the distance of a person's eyes. You did, and that

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Speaker 1: was very popular during the Civil War. Yes, it was exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would take you would take these two images and

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Speaker 1: then you would use something called usually called a stereoscope,

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Speaker 1: which was essentially a kind of a pair of glasses

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Speaker 1: held the two images at a certain distance from your eyes,

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Speaker 1: so when you looked at it, it creates the illusion

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Speaker 1: of depth. It's essentially a primitive three D and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. You could adjust the lenses back and

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Speaker 1: forth until the image came in focus for you, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Because of course not everyone is like our Our focal

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Speaker 1: points are a little different. Uh. It's the same thing

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Speaker 1: that we see now with various headsets where you have

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Speaker 1: ways to adjust the lenses so that if your eyes

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Speaker 1: are a little set, a little further apart or a

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Speaker 1: little closer together, because a tiny difference from the average

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Speaker 1: can mean you have a very different experience than someone

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Speaker 1: who is closer. To the end, you can still do

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing on a digital s l R

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Speaker 1: through the viewfinder. Everybody can just set it up for

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Speaker 1: because sometimes you'll pick up someone else's and and you're like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this person has very different eyes than I do. And

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Speaker 1: also you can get a very similar effect to this

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Speaker 1: using Uh there there are apps on phones now that

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Speaker 1: do essentially the same thing that this is doing, only

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Speaker 1: they're using the the software in an app that like

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Speaker 1: a Google Cardboard as an example, where you actually go

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Speaker 1: and you buy a little cardboard headset and you turn

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Speaker 1: your phone landscape side, you activate the Google Cardboard app,

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Speaker 1: you slide it into the headset, and now you've got

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Speaker 1: your own little virtual reality headset. It's based on the

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00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: exact same principle as this photography. It's just in that

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Speaker 1: case you're talking about more like video animation that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff rather than still photography. But it's the same idea.

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Speaker 1: Then there was the wet Colodeon process, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I'm even saying that correctly. Yes, oh excellent,

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Speaker 1: That was used to make glass negatives and was much

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Speaker 1: faster than earlier methods provided that you were able to

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Speaker 1: work quickly. Yeah, I mean you it kind of birth

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Speaker 1: the digital I mean not that, it kind of birth

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Speaker 1: the portable dark room. Yeah, because if you had everything

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Speaker 1: with you, you could do it in like fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 1: That's which was incredible speed compared to the previous methods,

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Speaker 1: and you could have huge Yeah, so you can make

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Speaker 1: enormous negative. Wow. So the challenge here is that the

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Speaker 1: the method relied upon the glass retaining that that moisture

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Speaker 1: on it that was used for the process, and if

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Speaker 1: it dried out, then your negative was ruined. So you

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Speaker 1: had to work quickly in order for you to be

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Speaker 1: able to take advantage of this. But on the flip side,

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00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: the process itself was very fast, so that was a

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Speaker 1: big advance. And then there was an even larger one

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Speaker 1: a little bit later, which was the dry plate technology.

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Speaker 1: I was developed by an English physician named Wretcher Richard

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Speaker 1: Leech Maddox in eight seventy one UM, which eliminates some

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Speaker 1: of the drawbacks of the glass approach. You didn't have

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Speaker 1: to have the plate remain wet for the whole process.

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Speaker 1: That's that's kind of where I get to the point

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Speaker 1: where I'm I say, all right, I'm gonna step back

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Speaker 1: from the chemistry. Obviously, I could keep going to the

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Speaker 1: point where a lot of the chemicals have changed into

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Speaker 1: the safer ones that we use today, and also the

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Speaker 1: move from glass and paper to film, but the basics

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Speaker 1: of what we're needed for photo manipulation to come into play.

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Speaker 1: All existed by this time. In fact, photo manipulation was

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Speaker 1: already a thing before eight UM and early manipulation. Sometimes

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00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: it was again it was perfectly innocent. It might be

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00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 1: that you take an image and you look at the negative,

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Speaker 1: and you realize from the negative that there is a

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Speaker 1: flaw of some sort. So you might alter the negative

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Speaker 1: a little bit before creating a print so that you

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Speaker 1: can compensate for some error that was made. Either the

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00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: exposure wasn't quite right, the lighting wasn't quite right, or

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Speaker 1: the subject moved or whatever. That may be the same

387
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: thing that we do today. Yeah, So it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a sinister or unethical uh motivation to manipulate a photo,

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00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: but there are those as well. So if you look

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Speaker 1: at some of the earlier edits, sometimes it meant that

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00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: you would alter the negative, as I had mentioned, sometimes

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00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: you would alter a print um, in which case you might.

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Speaker 1: In fact, early, because we were limited to black and

394
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Speaker 1: white photography, you had some people who would present make

395
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: photographs and make a make a print of a photograph

396
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: or a negative rather and then turn it over to

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00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: an artist who might actually add color by painting over

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Speaker 1: the photograph. You want blues guys, you know you put

399
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: a little pant on there. Yeah. Yeah, it's the best

400
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: solution to the problem at the time. So that was

401
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: a type of photo manipulation. I mean it was one

402
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: that everyone was aware of, but it was still a

403
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: way of manipulating the photos. Uh. You could also do

404
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: things like you could do a composite uh picture where

405
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: that's a little bit odd. Honestly, this was one of

406
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: those things that I understand the basics of, but I

407
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: don't know how it would actually happen. But generally speaking,

408
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: you would use two or more negatives to produce a

409
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: single print, and there were a lot of composites out

410
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: there for they were done for various reasons, sometimes in

411
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: order to include a person who was not able to

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00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: be present at a particular photo session, or to create

413
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: a particular artistic field. There's some really famous artists who

414
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: composed amazing pictures using as many as fifty or more

415
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: negatives in order to achieve it. And honestly, at that point,

416
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, you guys are magicians. I don't know how

417
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: this works. Yeah, I mean, as far as photo montage

418
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: photo manipulation goes, there are people like Jerry Yulesman who

419
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: goes into a dark room, takes fifty negative, splices them

420
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: up with an exact o knife and makes a print

421
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: and you you can't tell. It's like someone using photoshop

422
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: in their wizard, but it's all analog. But early on

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00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: you had you had Matthew Brady, who I like to

424
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: think of and I think a lot of people think

425
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: of him this way as the first celebrity photographer who

426
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: had a studio, and he took portraits of almost every

427
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: politician around that period, around like the Civil War era,

428
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: um and he had two very famous manipulations, one that

429
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: he did not do, but one of his photographs was

430
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: used for part of it. I'm guessing that's the Lincoln one.

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00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: The Lincoln portrait that is his it's his head um

432
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: that Matthew Brady took that photograph. It's the same one

433
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: that's used on the five dollar bill exactly. And the

434
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: body was of John Calhoun was a Southerner entirely, and

435
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: uh it was too. It was because during Lincoln's life

436
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: they felt like they didn't have enough heroic photographs of Lincoln. Yes,

437
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: this is an iconic picture of what appears to be

438
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: Lincoln standing in front of a desk and there's like

439
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: an American flag in the picture, and uh, there's um,

440
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a very striking photograph, it is.

441
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting to me is even back then

442
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: the amount of manipulation in that photograph, Uh, that there

443
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: are papers on the table, and when it was a

444
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: portrait of John Calhoun, the words on the table that

445
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: you could read where strict constitution, free trade, and the

446
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: sovereignty of the states. But the Lincoln version says constitution,

447
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: Union and the Proclamation of Freedom. That's fascinating that they

448
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: were able to get to that level of granularity in

449
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: the change. And and you know, there are there are

450
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: lots of different ways of achieving this sort of stuff.

451
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: I mean, there was the you know, you could go

452
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: to the negative and you could change the negative by

453
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: splicing stuff together and then producing a print. Or you

454
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: could do something where you're literally cutting and pasting, but

455
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: you're doing it on the print and then you take

456
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: a photograph of the print developed that and that becomes

457
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: your new photographs. So in other words, you can take

458
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: two pictures and you literally cut out the image of

459
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: something that you want from one paste it over top

460
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: the image that already exists, take a photo of it,

461
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: develop it, and that could be a way of doing

462
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: it too. That's so interesting because that's something that I

463
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: think a lot of people did in elementary school, is

464
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: that they went through magazines for projects and I would

465
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: cut out one part and put it over another part.

466
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: Is very much like collage. It's yeah. And and there

467
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: was the picture Matthew Brady did of Ulysses S. Grant,

468
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: and that's supposed to be of him in front of

469
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: his troops in City Point, Virginia, but it's not. No,

470
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: it's actually three different photos all meshed together. Uh. It's

471
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: it's the body of Major General Alexander M. M. Cook.

472
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: And uh, then it's the head of Ulysses S. Grant

473
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: on top of the body. So the body's on a horse,

474
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 1: So it's Ulysses S. Grant on the body of this

475
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: other general, major general. And the people in the background

476
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: are not Union soldiers, their Confederate prisoners. Yeah, so it's

477
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: it's it's that's a very interesting photo. Especially. I think

478
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: that's an early example of UM. I wouldn't say that

479
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: it was meant to deceive as much, but of maybe misinformation. Yeah,

480
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: you could argue, you know, you could call it propaganda

481
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: if you like. It was really meant to create again,

482
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: this heroic image. In fact, a lot of the pictures

483
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: that for political manipulation are really about elevating a particular

484
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: person to make them seem more iconic and or or

485
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: eliminate things that elevated person no longer liked. Military based

486
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: for the most Oh yeah, a lot of a lot

487
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: of military ones. Uh. Yeah, there's also the the General

488
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: Francis B. P. Blair being added to a group of

489
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: of other generals, including General Sherman. So this is a group.

490
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: If you see the two different photos, you'll see one

491
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: where there's a group of generals sitting together, and then

492
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: the second photo there's an extra general sitting way off

493
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: to the right. Yeah, that was that other Matthew Brady

494
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: image I was speaking of. And it's also really well done.

495
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean it's he's he's definitely feels a

496
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: little ostracized, but other than that, it looks like he

497
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: fits it does. Yeah, maybe he wasn't. Maybe they felt

498
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: like he wasn't as important. A bit over in the corner,

499
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna go sit up. The kid's table and let

500
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: the adult generals talk about the war over here. Yeah,

501
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: but it looks good. Yeah, it does look good. And

502
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: that is also really interesting to me because it was

503
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: clear that even early on, those photographers who are working

504
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: with this medium and trying to create these composite images

505
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: or manipulate these photos in some way already had an

506
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: innate understanding of if I want to do this and

507
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: make it look right, lighting is really important. I can't

508
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: ignore the fact that a scene lit from the left

509
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: and as subject who's lit from the right that I've

510
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: added in later are going to look wrong. Yeah, I

511
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: mean they're even now. There are a lot of photos

512
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: released by by very professional agencies that don't take as

513
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: much of that into consideration. Is even some of these

514
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: people fifty years ago, right, and those images get torn

515
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: apart on Reddit. You can go to Reddit and you'll

516
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: just see people saying, well, this is clearly photoshop because

517
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: if you look at the shadows they're on the you know,

518
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, you can tell that the

519
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: lighting is higher into the left instead of low into

520
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: the right or whatever. In some cases, it's really subtle,

521
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: and uh, And it's people who have a greater attention

522
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: span and better sense of detail than idea. I'll look

523
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: at it go like, holy cow, you're right, Like I

524
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: didn't notice it before. But yeah, there's still some other

525
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: really cool ones that I can talk about. Like in

526
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy, photographer William H. Mummler use double exposure. So

527
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: that's another way of editing and manipulating photos that we

528
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: can talk about for a second. He used double exposure

529
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: to create what people have dubbed spirit photography. Now, double

530
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: exposure is exactly what it sounds like. It's exposing the

531
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: same whatever photographic medium, whether it's film or a plate

532
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, to light twice, so you can create kind

533
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: of a double image look. And usually one of those

534
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: looks kind of transparent, like a weaker image than the

535
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: other one. And sometimes this was used for artistic effect,

536
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: like that I saw one that was of an actor

537
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: who in what in his in his regular pose the

538
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: darker pose, stood very tall and dignified, and in the

539
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: second post he's bent over with his hands stretched out

540
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: kind of like a like a classic universal monster. And

541
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: the first thing I thought when I saw I was like,

542
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: that's a perfect photograph if you want to get across

543
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: the concept of Jekyl and hide. But that was not

544
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: what the intent was from what I was reading. But

545
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: as I saw it, I just thought that was the

546
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: immediate reaction I had. And Uh, in this case, a

547
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: mumbler used double exposures on a pretty famous person, Mary

548
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: Todd Lincoln. Yes, so there's this image of Mary Todd

549
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: seated and behind her is this the ghostly apparition of

550
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln? And he even has his hands on her

551
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: shoulders and you can see through his hands to her shoulders.

552
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: It's pretty effective, and it helps because he was so lanky.

553
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: It really does kind of look ghoulish. Yeah, and and

554
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: again this is just achieved through double exposure. Some people

555
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: do this just for artistic effect. There have been cases

556
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: where people have used double exposure specifically to mislead or deceive,

557
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: But in this case, I wouldn't. I would. I would

558
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: argue that it wasn't necessarily meant to do that. It

559
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: was more of a memorium for someone at least that's

560
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: the implication. I feel. There were definitely ghost or spirit

561
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: photographers who took it a different way, and we're claiming

562
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: to get pictures of spirits. Yeah, like the ectoplasm. Uh,

563
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: photography as well, just that whole I mean that that

564
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: gets past photography. But there are a lot of pictures

565
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: with people with cheese cloths coming out of there, right, yeah,

566
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: cheese cloth. That's like that's a go to for hoaxers. Um. Yeah,

567
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: And and I promise when we get to we'll probably

568
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: save it for post digital. But I gotta talk to

569
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: you about orbs, So we'll chat about orbs in the

570
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: post digital section. But I've got my favorite story of No,

571
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: it's not even photo manipulation, it's just trickery. I bet

572
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: it is. Does the year nineteen seventeen kind of fit

573
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: into that? Yes, we're gonna talk about the fairies. Okay,

574
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: So Dylan, you don't know this about me when I was,

575
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: But it's not a surprise because I was a kid once.

576
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, uh, and I was going

577
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: to elementary school, I would check out all the books

578
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: on ghosts and monsters and folklore, and I would read

579
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: them cover to cover and I would check them out again. Excellent.

580
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: So I will never forget when I was reading about

581
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and two young girls and a

582
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: bunch of fairies out in the woods and the two

583
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: young girls were cousins or Elsie Wright and Francis Griffiths,

584
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: and they had all these photographs of them sitting around

585
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: in Glenn's surrounded by fairies frolicking about. Yeah, the Coddingly fairies.

586
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: It was taken near Coddingly, England, famous famous hoax uh

587
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, of course, the author of

588
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: the Sherlock Holmes Mysteries. He was for a long time

589
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: hardcore skeptic, but then suffered some tragedy in his life

590
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: and started to turn to mysticism and spiritualists in an

591
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: effort to answer questions that he could not answer himself,

592
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: and there was sort of a decline. It was very

593
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: kind of ironic from someone who presented a character who

594
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: was as dispassionate and rationalist Sherlock Holmes to end up

595
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: embracing the idea of these two girls who had managed

596
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: to capture images of fairies. And it wouldn't be until

597
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: near the end of their lives that they revealed that

598
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: all they did was take illustration that were from books

599
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: and cut them out and paced them onto cardboard and

600
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: pose the cardboard around them and take photographs. So they

601
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: actually didn't do any manipulation at all. Yeah, they just

602
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: set a scene and did I. I think it wasn't

603
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: until the late seventies or early eighties that one of

604
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: them admitted to it. And then the famous skeptic James

605
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: Randy also said that he was like, well, these illustrations

606
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: are exactly the same as these illustrations from this book

607
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: that came out in nineteen fifteen. Yeah. Yeah, he he

608
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: had a book called flim Flam where he talked about

609
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: it a lot. James Randy did. That was decades later, Yeah,

610
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: very much later. So that's that's crazy, because they sent

611
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: it that it folded a photographer named Harold Snelling, and

612
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: he said quote that they were genuine, unfaked photographs of

613
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: single exposure open air work showed movement and all the

614
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: fairy figures and there's no trace whatever of studio work

615
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: involving card are paper models, dark backgrounds, painted figures, et cetera. Yeah,

616
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: so he was he was writ in the sense there

617
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: was single exposure, but there was no movement. They were

618
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: paper figures. In fact, there are people who who when

619
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: they really looked at the photos, they said, you can

620
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: see evidence of some movement in the human subjects, but

621
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: the fairies, who presumably would be moving much faster because

622
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: some of them are like mid leap or flight or whatever,

623
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: there's no blurring around them. And again, the exposure time

624
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: at this point it was still relatively long, much longer

625
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: than say the cameras that would be used a few

626
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: decades later, and so any fast movement would be very blurry.

627
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: It wouldn't come across so sharp and crisp as these

628
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: photos did. But they were very compelling at the time,

629
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: and a lot of people bought into it, including Sir

630
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle. Uh and I've got another one. In

631
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four. We have a fellow by the name

632
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: of Bernard McFadden who creates a technique called composed a graph.

633
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: Do you know of McFadden, I don't. I don't believe.

634
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: So let me take you downe the lurid, dirty, dirty

635
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: path to tabloid journalism, because this is tabloid journalism at

636
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: its most scheezy. So here here's McFadden. He is working

637
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: on a tabloid magazine called New York Evening Graphic, which

638
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: some people nicknamed porno Graphic. So what he would do

639
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: is there would be news stories of various uh public figures,

640
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: whether celebrities, politicians, whatever, sports stars, whatever it may be,

641
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: and there'd be a story of some scandal. Like again,

642
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: this is a tabloid, so they're all about scandal. What

643
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: he would do is he would take images, uh like

644
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: of people's faces in these stories. Then he would pose

645
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: um body doubles, sometimes mannequins sometimes they were staffers of

646
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 1: the magazine into a tableau, take a picture, and then

647
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: do paste of the famous people's heads on top of

648
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: the figures that he had posed, and then do things

649
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: like a superimposed word balloon on top of it to

650
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: express some statement that went along with the scandalous story. Wow,

651
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: I mean Nino, I thought, how could it be skisier

652
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: than like today's tabloids. But that's that's that's on. That's

653
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: just right there. I don't know if you've ever seen

654
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: have you ever seen any of the computer animated videos

655
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: that come out of it's some Asian country, but it's

656
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: but it's the retelling of famous story. Yeah, same principle here,

657
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: except he was doing it with still photography. Yeah. And

658
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: uh so that by the way, that that tabloid did

659
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: not last too long. I think in the early nineteen

660
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: thirties that it folded, it went bankrupt. But um definitely

661
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: was one of those means of photo manipulation that gave

662
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: the whole the whole concept of bad name. So there

663
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: were the political ones we had talked about previously, then

664
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: there there was this one where I mean, it's just

665
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: the beginning of a long line of commercial uses of

666
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: photo manipulation and photo editing in order to sell papers, essentially,

667
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: is what it gets down to. Yeah, or or you know,

668
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: to kind of cause harm to someone's image. That that

669
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: that that was the genesis of that, And that's something

670
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: that every time that political campaign comes around every four years,

671
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: you have to be extra weary of the photographs that

672
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: start circulating. Yeah. And and not only that, but you'll

673
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: see artists will use it, usually transparently. I mean, the

674
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: artist approach normally is not to create an image that

675
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: you think is real. The artist's intent might be to

676
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: make a statement about a particular person. I remember seeing

677
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: one artist who had created a photograph and it was

678
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: of a crowd out on the street, and then overtop

679
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: the crowd was this inky looking octopus with the head

680
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: of William Randolph Hurst. So obviously the comment being that

681
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: Hearst is manipulating the public through the media, and obviously

682
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: he's not inky no, nor does he have eight appendages.

683
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: He had terrible taste in home decor. I'll say that

684
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: as someone who's walked through the Hearst Castle. This was

685
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: clearly a guy who had so much money. He just said,

686
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: I like that thing. Put it in my house. It

687
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if baroque, don't care if it's if it's

688
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: broken Gothic in the same room along with some even

689
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: older stuff and some newer stuff, that's fine. And I

690
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: who have no taste would walk through and y'all this

691
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: is tacky. So we've we've talked about those. Let's talk

692
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: a little bit about not not adding stuff in, but

693
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: taking stuff away also. That became pretty prevalent around that

694
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: same period of time, the nineteen twenties, that was a

695
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: big period of time for well, World War One, World

696
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: War two, that that kind of period in time. Yeah,

697
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: we had a lot of um of famous leaders who

698
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: had finnicky attitudes towards their followers, and when they would

699
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: get a little peeved that said followers, they would attempt

700
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: to erase said followers. From history entirely. Not just not

701
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: just execute the person. That's not good enough. They have

702
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: to erase the fact that that person ever existed, including

703
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: removing them from photographs. And example, yeah, sometimes you get

704
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: removed from a photograph and you'd also be dead. Yes,

705
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes they would kill you first and then say,

706
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: all right, well, now that he's dead, let's go ahead

707
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: and remove him from all the official photographs, like press photos,

708
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: things like that. Big famous example of this would be

709
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: a photo that originally had Nikolai Yazkov or Yeshov rather

710
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: posing with Joe's Stalin. This is the Vanishing Commissar photograph

711
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: and um, it's a picture of a group of gentlemen

712
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: including Mr Stalin. Uh and yes Hoff and yes, I'm

713
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: standing right next to um a wall that leads right

714
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: over to a river, and Stalin's immediately to his right.

715
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: And then the retouched photo he's gone. Yeah. An example

716
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: of air brushing, Yeah, air brushing exactly. So. An airbrush

717
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: is a tool that uses air to push through some

718
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: form of paint or ink or whatever it may be,

719
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: in order for you to do some uh, you know,

720
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: analog hand controlled art. And in some cases it could

721
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: be to hide something that was once there. Yeah, Like

722
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: if you use photoshop today, it's the same idea as

723
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: content to wear or the clones stamp just to take

724
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, to put texture back into the photograph where

725
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: something used to be right and if you were really

726
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: good at it, in my be difficult, especially on a

727
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: casual glance, to notice that anything hinky has happened. There's

728
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: some examples where you can look at and think, huh,

729
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: if I did not know that there once was someone

730
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: standing there, I never would have picked up on the

731
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: fact that this photo has been altered. There are others

732
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: where there might be some clues, particularly with things that

733
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: have fine detail. Sometimes that will be a giveaway. L

734
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: that's pretty noticeable with Gebals, well, technically without Gebels, it

735
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,959
Speaker 1: was originally Girbels was in the photograph. And I love

736
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: that every instance that talks about this says, we don't

737
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: know why. Yeah, we don't know why Hitler got mad

738
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: at Gebels or what the reasoning was, or why he

739
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: decided to erase him from this photo. He just did.

740
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: And it's not done particularly well because there's a blob. Yeah,

741
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: the Stalin one is a little more convincing. Mostly because

742
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: the water in the background is a very light, like

743
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: the sunlight is hitting it, so it's harder to see

744
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: that there was once a form there um. But some

745
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: of the other ones are a lot or obvious by

746
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: the way. The Stalin one, when I see the before

747
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: and after pictures, to me, it just feels like one

748
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: moment Stalin's there next to him, and the next moment,

749
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: Stalin just pushes him off into the river, which somewhere. Yeah,

750
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: it's not that far off from the truth because he

751
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: did have him executed. So uh. And I don't mean

752
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: to laugh about that. I don't think it's funny, but

753
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: I but it is one of those images where you

754
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: just look at and you you know, it lends itself

755
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: to that kind of thought. Uh. And Hitler and Stalin

756
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: were not the only ones to do this. Mounts a

757
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 1: tongue did it. He had a famous photo where there

758
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: was a supporter named Poku who was posed among I

759
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: think they were like originally there were four people in

760
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: the photograph and then three Poku was removed. Uh, Poku

761
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: fell out of favor, and you can tell that this

762
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: one was manipulated to there's uh, there's a background behind

763
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: where Poku was standing that has mysteriously gotten really blobby

764
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: and dark, and it's not the same color as the

765
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: rounding wood in the structure that's there. So if you

766
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: look at the first photo where you can see where

767
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: the wood is a certain standard color all the way

768
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: through up to the point where you can't see anymore

769
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: because pocus in the way, and the other one looks

770
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: all blobby, You're like, something's wrong here. It's also weird

771
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: when it's you. You see like a lineup of people

772
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: and then you wonder, like, why are they standing like that? Yeah?

773
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: Can I talk about my favorite? Sure, it's the one

774
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: of Mussolini. Have you seen this one where he's on

775
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: a horse and he's holding a sword up to the

776
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: sky and uh. In the original there's a horse handler, yes,

777
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: standing right at the very mouth of the horse, holding

778
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: the horse's head steady, and he had and removed and

779
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: it's a good it's a good it's a good job.

780
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: It looks it looks legitimate, but not like the artist

781
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: gave the horse buck teeth or something. But just that idea, um,

782
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: I think is the perfect amount of posturing for someone

783
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: like that. They would definitely do something like and and

784
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was saying before, with the idea

785
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: that you know, to try and make certain figures seem

786
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 1: more majestic. Uh. You know, if if you're if your

787
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: identity that you are presenting to the public relies on

788
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: the fact that you are this powerful figure, you don't

789
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: want it seeing that you need someone there to control

790
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: the horse that you're sitting on. You want it to

791
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: look like you have that, you know, that amazing ability yourself,

792
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: So you don't want there to seem to be any

793
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: sign of weakness perceived in any way. And that was

794
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: another great example of that. Um, did you did you

795
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: know about the one from from a group of Russians

796
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: who are erecting the Soviet flag above the Reichstag. Yes,

797
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: and that in the original image, Uh, one of them

798
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: has on two watches. Yeah, he has a band on

799
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: his right arm that some people think was a watch,

800
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: but it probably was actually a compass, so it probably

801
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: was legitimately there. But the reason why of images altered.

802
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: If you look at the altered image, the band has

803
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: gone off the right arm, and the reasoning was that

804
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: if people saw that he had a band on his

805
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: right arm, they would think he must already be wearing

806
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: a watch on his left arm. That's where people wear

807
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: their watches. So he must have been looting the bodies

808
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: of the dead and put on another watch on his

809
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: other arm, and they didn't want that to be part

810
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: of the image. Truth is, he probably didn't loud the dead.

811
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: He probably was wearing a compass on that arm and

812
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: a watch on his other arm. Idea to come to. Yeah,

813
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: it's and and it's interesting because to me, it's interesting

814
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: in that they were just trying to bypass a misinterpretation

815
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: of the photo, and that, in fact the photo was

816
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: probably already not indicating that this guy was a looter.

817
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: It was just well, to be safe, we should probably

818
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: take that out. And it's also a very small part

819
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: of the photograph. Yeah, it's This is not like a

820
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: close up on the man's wrist. In fact that you

821
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: have to look really closely to notice it. But they

822
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: were concerned and so they did. And then the next

823
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: one I have is actually you you mentioned him uh

824
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: Jerry and Uhlsman in nineteen sixty nine, one of the

825
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: both most most striking photos I've seen. That again was

826
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: presented without it being you know, it's not meant to

827
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: deceive or misrepresent. It's an artistic expression and it is

828
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: this amazing photo of trees that are suspended in the air,

829
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: complete with roots systems, and it's gorgeous. And if if

830
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: you haven't seen his work, I would suggest looking at

831
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: it because this surreal and and impeccably done. Yeah, it

832
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: is amazing to look at. I I was, and I'm

833
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: not generally speaking of visual arts kind of guy um

834
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: one of my other flaws, but when I saw this,

835
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: I just couldn't help but really appreciate the mass story

836
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: of the art that it would take to produce such

837
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: an image. It's interesting because his wife is as good

838
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: at photoshop as he is in the dark room. Interesting. Yeah,

839
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: we'll have to talk more about that in part two. Um.

840
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: So there's some other examples we can give, Like there's

841
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:22,479
Speaker 1: there's the famous National Geographic UH cover in nWo. Push

842
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: the pyramids closer together for a better composition of GI Yeah. Yeah.

843
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: The the original photo was done in sort of a

844
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: landscape mode, and of course in order to put it

845
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: onto a cover of a magazine, they needed to be

846
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: more portraits, so they squished them together. So if you

847
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: look the pyramids are they appear to be geographically closer

848
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: to one another than they are in reality, and some

849
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: people began to criticize the magazine for saying, you're you're

850
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: misrepresenting reality. You're putting this forward as if this is

851
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: the way it looks, and this is not how it looks.

852
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: And in fact, um, they got a new director of

853
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: photography who said that, um, everyone in that g thought

854
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: that this was the wrong decision. After it went up,

855
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: the this was a mistake, not a mistake in the

856
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: sense of oops, we did this, but more like that's

857
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: something that we should not do because it doesn't reflect

858
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: the mission of our magazine. And so they had essentially

859
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: made a statement saying we're not going to do that ever. Again,

860
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 1: that's one of the last pre digital cases I can

861
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: I can think of. Yeah, the most of the ones

862
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: I think of certainly happened after the digital era begins,

863
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: like the really famous ones. Obviously there are countless examples

864
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: that are out there, But that's the last one I

865
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: have of the really uh, the notable ones in the

866
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: pre digital era. And now there were some others that

867
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: happened in the post digital era that probably still used

868
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: some old school approach, Like I'm thinking specifically of a

869
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 1: TV guide car that will talk about in part two.

870
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, Dylan. Have you have

871
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: you as a photographer, uh apbled in some of these

872
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: techniques for whatever purpose almost every day? Yeah? Yeah, since

873
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't do photojournalism, Um, I'm not trying to do

874
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: anything that I don't believe is ethical. Um, but let's

875
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: say that for example, here at how stuff works, I've

876
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: taken photographs of the staff, and everyone's a while to take.

877
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: We have these great big windows that overlook uh the street,

878
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: and um, it's nice to post people and from them

879
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: because there's a great light in that area. And so

880
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: I'll take a portrait of one of our hosts in

881
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: front of that window, and then I'll upload it onto

882
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: the computer and I'll realize, oh, there's some cars on

883
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: the road right there. I don't want those cars right there.

884
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: I remove the cars. Or I took a photograph of

885
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: a couple of our hosts in front of the apartment

886
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: building across the street, and I thought, well, the name

887
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: of the apartment building isn't part of our brand, so

888
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: I should just take it out. Things like that, it's

889
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: just cleaning it up some and things like that. I

890
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: know happen every day. I think that now photo manipulation

891
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: is probably a little bit like auto tune, where you

892
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: might not know it, but almost every major release you

893
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: here has at least a little bit of auto tune. Yeah,

894
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: because the original purpose of auto tune was to be unnoticed.

895
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't meant to be a a new form of performance.

896
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: That's how it got that's what it got turned into.

897
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: And then you had people who were behind auto tune saying, well, crap.

898
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: The whole purpose of this was to make make to

899
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: correct little errors and get people closer to being on

900
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: key and on tune without it becoming a noticeable thing.

901
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: And now you guys are are are pushing this into

902
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: something else. Not that that isn't legitimate. I mean, I

903
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: think it's always important to recognize that art sometimes takes

904
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: established processes or technologies and pushes them in new ways.

905
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: And that's how you get new stuff. Yeah, you get

906
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: the share effect an auto tune, or you have Andy

907
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: Warhol making prints until they deteriorate over and over again

908
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: on like a like a screen print, over and over again.

909
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: But just like how auto tune tries to find uh,

910
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: the right note between two two different notes, tries to

911
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: get you to that right note. Uh. I think a

912
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: lot of people put their their photographs into a light

913
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: room or photoshop and they just try and get it

914
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 1: to the right exposure, the right saturation, color correction, dodging

915
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: and burning, which we can talk about in the second episode.

916
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: Just small things like that that I think people have

917
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: become so accustomed to that if you gave them an

918
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: image right out of the camera, they would feel like

919
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: it could have been improved upon. Yeah, this, to me

920
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: is really the fascinating part of this, the idea that

921
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: as someone who's who's a casual shutter bug at best,

922
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: like I am not known for the making great composition

923
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: of shots. I take pictures casually in order to capture

924
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 1: moments to remember. And that's about it. Like, that's that's

925
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: about as far as my expertise goes in that area.

926
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: I have a deep appreciation for people who have a

927
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: great understanding of composition, of lighting, of what needs to

928
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: happen on the camera side in order to capture the

929
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: moment that you intend to capture, and only that, but

930
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: what has to happen on the back end after the

931
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: photo has been quote unquote taken in order for you

932
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: to have the finished picture represent your vision, especially as

933
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: an artist. That's that to me is amazing, Like a

934
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: lot I think. I think I often would think of

935
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: photography the way a lot of early photographers thought about it,

936
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: that photography's purpose is to capture a moment um as

937
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: close to representing it in as being real as possible,

938
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: like like capturing that real moment forever and fixing it

939
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: in a medium so it can stay that way for

940
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: the end of time. And U I don't necessarily, or

941
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: at least I didn't think about the fact that sometimes

942
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: the point where you push the shutter button on your

943
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: camera is just the beginning, and then you have another

944
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: process that follows to get to the photo that you

945
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: want that actually represents your vision. There are definitely two

946
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: sides of it. I mean, to have the idea of,

947
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: like you said, getting a photograph, saving it for history

948
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 1: and not touching it I think is also very important

949
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: depending on the case. It's like when you get the

950
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: audio of the State of the Union, or if the

951
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: President makes an address, you don't cut it because that

952
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: that can change context. You shouldn't do the same thing

953
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: um with photojournalism or at least most people believe that.

954
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: It's like there was a famous example in seventy at

955
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: the Kent State shootings that there's a picture of a

956
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: body on the ground and there's a woman grieving over it,

957
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: and there was a pole sticking out from behind her head. Um.

958
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: And someone saw that photograph and took the pole out.

959
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: And does it change the context of the photograph? Not particularly.

960
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: It was done for compositional reasons, to make it more

961
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: aesthetically pleasing. One of the things that I learned when

962
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: I went to college photo photography is never have a

963
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: pole behind someone's head. It's just it's just you don't

964
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: do it. And yes, but if it starts there with photojournalism,

965
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: if you start by removing a pole, it could only

966
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: escalate from there. Um. And you know, you get to

967
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: a point where you're like, all right, it was a

968
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: pole in this case. All right, it was someone's ring

969
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: in this case, which changes the context depending upon the

970
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: culture or it was, you know, removing an entire person

971
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: and erasing that person's presence from an actual historical moment.

972
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it does become a slope, right, And if

973
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: when people find out it raises more questions than it

974
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: never really answers, sure, because then you start questioning the

975
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: motivations behind the action, and then you think, well, what

976
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: are your ulterior motives for making these alterations to this photograph?

977
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we've explored some of that here.

978
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: In some cases it was meant to mislead people specifically,

979
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: in some cases it was a matter of ego, uh,

980
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: and sometimes ego to the point of of megalomaniac maniake

981
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,439
Speaker 1: the egos, I mean Stalin and and Moult s Tong

982
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: and the biggest egos of the twentieth century Hit Learned

983
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: mostly and yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean those are big

984
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: egos and to the point where if you want someone gone,

985
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: you don't just kill them, but you erase all record

986
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: of them. That's insane really to me. But as far

987
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: as people who would have like who would have a

988
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: history of having photos manipulated, yeah, it makes total sense

989
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: that those would be the personalities that demand these things.

990
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: And we've also, of course, there are plenty of examples

991
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: of other artists and photographers who have manipulated images using

992
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: pictures of people like those, uh, in order to lampoon

993
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: or youse satire or some other means to make a

994
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: message like there's a famous one, uh, not a particularly convincing,

995
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: uh cut and paste job, but there was one where

996
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: it's a picture of of of someone dressed up with

997
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: an apron and they're holding a clever and they're about

998
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: to chop the head off of a of a bird,

999
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: is a bird that represents France, and they've cut and

1000
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: paste Hitler's head on top of the person's head, thus

1001
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: representing Hitler's approach to attacking and and conquering France. And

1002
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: it was meant as a political statement, And it wasn't

1003
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: meant to mislead obvious, it wasn't. It wasn't. The intent

1004
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: wasn't to suggest, like look at this weird picture I

1005
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: got of Hitler. It was obviously to make a statement. Yes, yeah,

1006
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: so lots of different reasons for this. Now this is

1007
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: really neat because it does show the amount of work

1008
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: necessary to edit and manipulate photos. Sometimes it meant taking

1009
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: a risk that you might ruin the negative that you

1010
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: had created. Not all of these manipulations when you had

1011
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: to go back to the negative and make some changes, No,

1012
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: all of them turned out great. And there is no

1013
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: undo button. Yeah, so we have no way of knowing

1014
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: how many potentially historical images we've lost as a result

1015
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: of an error made in the manipulation process, it may

1016
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: be that there are quite a few that would have

1017
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: been iconic photographs that we have never seen because of that. Uh,

1018
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: it's a different story in the post digital age, and

1019
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: that's what we're going to cover in our next episode.

1020
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: So we're gonna wrap up this one. Dylan, thank you

1021
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: so much for joining me for this episode. Thank you.

1022
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: It will be almost as if you never left. We

1023
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: record the next one. And guys, if you have any

1024
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: suggestions for future episodes, you can always write me. My

1025
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: email address is text stuff at how stuff works dot com,

1026
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: or drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter or tumbler.

1027
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: I use the handle text stuff hs W at all

1028
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: three of those. And I will talk to you again

1029
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: Leason for more on this and bastings and other topics.

1030
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: Is it has to Works dot com.