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Speaker 1: All right, break it down.

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Speaker 2: If you ever have feelings that you just wons Amy

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Speaker 2: and Cat, gotcha, Cob and locking a brother, ladies and fels,

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Speaker 2: you just follow Ann the spirit where it's on the

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Speaker 2: front real stuff to the chaill stuff and the.

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Speaker 1: M but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can do

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Speaker 1: it just.

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Speaker 2: Stop you feel things.

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Speaker 1: This is feeling things.

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Speaker 2: With Amy and Cat.

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. Welcome to feeling Things. I'm Amy and I'm

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Speaker 1: Cat and we are continuing our series on the Four

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Speaker 1: Horsemen from doctor John Gottman, and today's is a doozy.

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Speaker 1: We finally hit the one that will just send your

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Speaker 1: relationship down the drain down the toilet right like a

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Speaker 1: slow flush. And then one day you're just like.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, I think the criticism is like the slow flush, this.

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Speaker 1: Is the well, but how fast? I mean you might

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Speaker 1: live with it for a little bit.

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Speaker 2: This is like I'm just it's like Jarn, It's like

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Speaker 2: you feel it.

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Speaker 1: I saw if you stay in this one you get

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Speaker 1: sick more. I told Kat I didn't read in too

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Speaker 1: much on this one. Because we have a doc where

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Speaker 1: we build everything that Kat is the therapist, so she's

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Speaker 1: delivering this information to us and this is something that

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Speaker 1: you probably go over with clients and stuff or recommend

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Speaker 1: to them or recommend that they do more research themselves.

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Speaker 1: Because he has a book, right, he has a lot

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Speaker 1: of books. But he also I mean, is it specifically

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Speaker 1: for this or does he mention this.

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Speaker 2: In This is just in his research information that you

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Speaker 2: can find. If anybody wants to know more and doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to read a book, you go to the Gotman

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Speaker 2: Institute's website. They have a blog, They have tons of articles.

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Speaker 2: They probably have ten articles just on contempt, which is

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about today, or just on the four horsemen.

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Speaker 2: So if you are interested or you just want to

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Speaker 2: read more, go there. That's a better place than just

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Speaker 2: googling or going on Wikipedia to learn because it's all

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Speaker 2: coming from his research. It's things that the Gotments have

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Speaker 2: put on there and people that work for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like by research, he was doing very intense

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Speaker 1: things with couples, like some even in his own home,

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Speaker 1: right or did I make that up? He might have

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Speaker 1: been doing that like therapy and like recording.

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Speaker 2: Then so he had the love lab. Is that what

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Speaker 2: you're talking about?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so his own home his lab whatever, But he

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Speaker 1: was monitoring people like filming them and watching their interactions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: Like seeing how they were communicating.

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Speaker 2: Also, I didn't think about this, but if you if

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Speaker 2: you do a training with the Gotment Institute, you'll get

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Speaker 2: to see some of the recordings of therapy sessions and

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Speaker 2: sometimes you'll see them in like the waiting room and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that, and they'll talk you through those things.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever watched Couples Therapy?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's I want to say, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: streaming service is on. It's not like a Netflix. It

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Speaker 2: might be HBO or something.

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Speaker 1: I'll figure it out.

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Speaker 2: Less popular, but it's worth if they have a thirty

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Speaker 2: day trial, it's worth just doing that to watch the show.

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Speaker 1: Paramount Plus and Hulu.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, Hulu. So it is the therapist on Their

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Speaker 2: name is doctor Orna, and she is incredible. When I

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Speaker 2: watch it, it feels like continuing education, but also it's entertaining.

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Speaker 2: It's a TV show, and I'm very weary of therapy

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Speaker 2: entertainment because I'm like, who would sign up to do

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Speaker 2: therapy on a TV show?

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Speaker 1: So who would That's a good question.

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Speaker 2: I haven't actually done research on figuring the answer to that,

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Speaker 2: But my assumption is they're getting free therapy, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure she's a pretty penny.

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Speaker 1: Right, So I'm willing to share all of my things

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Speaker 1: with the world in exchange for.

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Speaker 2: This theory because maybe it will save my marriage or

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Speaker 2: save my relationship. And they do a great job of

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Speaker 2: having all different kinds of relationships on there, all different

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Speaker 2: types of people, all different types of religions, Like it

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Speaker 2: kind of does kind of check every box. But if

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Speaker 2: you read about and learn about these four horsemen and

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Speaker 2: then you watch the show, it would be a fun

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Speaker 2: exercise for somebody to go in and look at like

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Speaker 2: when you see each one, and there are some when

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Speaker 2: you watch the ones and you're like, that's contempt. Even

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Speaker 2: I'm like, there's no way, And part of me is

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Speaker 2: like I don't want this couple to make it because

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Speaker 2: they are both hurting each other so often and so harshly.

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Speaker 1: Do you think two contempt people end up together or

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Speaker 1: one is the contempt and then the other person turns

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Speaker 1: contempt both.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's just as like you married a

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Speaker 2: contemptuous person. I think that a lot of times what

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Speaker 2: happens in relationships is things build and build and build,

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Speaker 2: and then you start building this resentment and then you

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Speaker 2: become contemptuous towards your partner. Now, if you're married to

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Speaker 2: somebody who is has a lot of traits of narcissism

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Speaker 2: or is diagnosed as a narcissist, then they're probably gonna

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Speaker 2: be contemptuous at times. But I don't think it's just

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Speaker 2: like you are this person most of the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, Nick Cannon, Ye, Maria carries, yeah baby daddy

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Speaker 1: and then a lot of other Yeah baby Ddy's mama's. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was the baby daddy to a lot of babies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not just Maria carry. But I didn't know if you

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Speaker 1: knew that he was recently on the Breakfast Club and

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Speaker 1: he shared with them that he was diagnosed with MPD.

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Speaker 2: No way. Yeah, I saw something somewhere that he said,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it was from there he said he wasn't

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Speaker 2: treating people very well, so maybe he's trying to get.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that that was a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago that you know, he did all the tests and

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of questions and intense therapy and filling

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Speaker 1: out questionnaires and whatnot that he realized he had narcissistic

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Speaker 1: personality disorder. And that so many times he thought that's

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Speaker 1: just the way things were, but he's realized he can't

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Speaker 1: be that way, so he's doing the work to try

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Speaker 1: not to be that way. And I'm like, wow, this

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Speaker 1: just seems like the opposite of everything we hear. Now.

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Speaker 1: I've heard from experts that there is a possibility that

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Speaker 1: there can be work done, but that person has to

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Speaker 1: be open to it, and most narcisses aren't going to

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Speaker 1: be open to testing for it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's true. And I also was going to say,

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Speaker 2: and this is me just saying this, that this can

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Speaker 2: also happen. Somebody who's diagnosed with that personality disorder can

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Speaker 2: also present like they are this person who's like, oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, I don't want to be this way. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to change this. That's a way to manipulate people too,

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Speaker 2: but they really have no intention of doing that. They're

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Speaker 2: like to get ahead of it. Does that make sense

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Speaker 2: that Costs are very good actors, not.

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Speaker 1: So much with him, I guess. But I guess I

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Speaker 1: thought that if because they tend to be very manipulative

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Speaker 1: and good at it, that why wouldn't they Just with

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Speaker 1: all this information now that we have about narcissism and

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Speaker 1: how it's everywhere. You kind of like see people saying

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Speaker 1: certain things and you're like, well, if I just don't

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Speaker 1: say that or act this way, then I either will

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Speaker 1: not be perceived as narcissist or I kind of know

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Speaker 1: the right thing to say now and then people will

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Speaker 1: see me in a different way. That crossed my mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a specific couple on one of the season

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Speaker 2: where you have a couple's therapy, yes, where you can

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Speaker 2: tell that there's some narcissism afloat, and the way that

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Speaker 2: the doctor orner handles it is like so beautiful where

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Speaker 2: you're not just like calling somebody out, but she's just

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Speaker 2: kind of she was trying to understand this person, and

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Speaker 2: he kept being like no, no, no, no, like she

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Speaker 2: wouldn't allow her to like she probably was actually getting

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Speaker 2: it right, but he kept always having an excuse for something,

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Speaker 2: even if she was like parroting back what he said.

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Speaker 2: And so she just said to him, it feels like

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to get things right for you with you?

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Speaker 2: Is that true? And he was like, what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? And she's like, well, it just feels like

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to understand you and it feels really hard

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Speaker 2: for me to understand you. Do you feel that? Do

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Speaker 2: you feel like it's hard for people to understand you?

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Speaker 2: And you can. I'm going to find the season and

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Speaker 2: come back and tell you, guys, because it was such

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Speaker 2: a like a caring, empathetic view of how it looks

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Speaker 2: like to be in relationship with these people, and you

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Speaker 2: have so much empathy for the part too, and also like, hello,

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Speaker 2: now you deserve better than this. Yeah, I mean you

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Speaker 2: were going to say what you saw on the dock

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Speaker 2: we trailed off.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, just like under contempt. Like I told you,

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Speaker 1: I just went in to put my funny story that

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Speaker 1: I just went in to put my feeling of the day,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I really didn't read much about it.

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Speaker 1: I was like, but what's crazy to me is that

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Speaker 1: if someone's in in a contemptuous relationship, they are more

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Speaker 1: susceptible to illness, Like they get sick more because they're

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Speaker 1: weakened immune system. And then you're like, well, that's at

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Speaker 1: the top of the dock, and I was like, yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: The first thing, yeah, which is that's funny.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it's also in fun it's like four times

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Speaker 1: thicker than I just.

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Speaker 2: Thought that was crazy too, and it's yeah, your immune

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Speaker 2: system gets weakened, because I mean that speaks to how

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Speaker 2: our mental health affects the wholeness of our health. If

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Speaker 2: I'm constantly being beaten down or having to feel like

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Speaker 2: I have defend myself all the time, I don't feel

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Speaker 2: safe in my closest relationship, your body's going to take

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Speaker 2: that on and then you're not gonna be able to

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Speaker 2: fight off actual things like the flu.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wild, it is crazy. I'm going to do the

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Speaker 1: feeling of the day before we get into contempt.

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Speaker 2: I would love to.

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Speaker 1: I'm sad. I know it doesn't seem sad sad, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sad because my boyfriend left for Paris today without me.

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Speaker 2: This is you know, that's like the one place you

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Speaker 2: want to go.

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Speaker 1: It's on my list, It's on my bucket list. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And of course I could go with him if I

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Speaker 1: didn't have work. I mean he would be working, but

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Speaker 1: I could still. And apparently then when he left today

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Speaker 1: because he came by to get a folding bag and

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Speaker 1: he was like, I think my hotel room looks all

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Speaker 1: to the Eiffel Tower, And I was like cool, stop

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Speaker 1: and He's like I can bring you a sweatshirt, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay.

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Speaker 2: It's the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think I can get that here

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Speaker 1: in the mall. But the sad is giving me information though,

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Speaker 1: like I'm sad that I can't be there, but also

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Speaker 1: I'm thankful for my job, so it's like give take,

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Speaker 1: and then I guess it's good that I'm sad because

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Speaker 1: like I care about my relationship, you know, like if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sad, like he's going to experience something like

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Speaker 1: I want to experience that with him, okay, and like

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Speaker 1: I don't get to do that, maybe we will one day.

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Speaker 1: So also like I'm sad, but then hopeful that maybe

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Speaker 1: one day we'll take our own trip to Paris. And

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Speaker 1: then the saddest information though, because like what if I

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Speaker 1: was like, eh, neutral, like I don't care you're leaving

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Speaker 1: for a week. I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Well you yeah, you would feel that about any trip, right,

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Speaker 2: not just Paris. It's just an extra.

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Speaker 1: It's extra because it's like where.

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Speaker 2: You want to go, want to go? I really want

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Speaker 2: to ask a hypothetical question, but if it feels weird,

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Speaker 2: just let me know. Okay, if you were to one

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Speaker 2: day go on a honeymoon with anybody doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: do with your boyfriend. If you got to make that

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Speaker 2: decision on your own, where do you think you would go?

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Speaker 1: Good?

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Speaker 2: Would you go to Paris? Or do you think you

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Speaker 2: would do me?

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but it's feeling a little cliche for honeymoon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but okay, maybe it's just because I just watched the

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Speaker 1: Summer I Turn Pretty and cut that out, cut that out?

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Speaker 1: Just leep it wait did it?

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Speaker 2: I don't watch that.

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Speaker 1: I can up, I know, but everybody's watching it. It's

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Speaker 1: all the rage. I can't believe you're not No, you can't.

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Speaker 1: I cannot say, we cannot keep.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't just be he just beaped it.

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Speaker 1: We're still talking, Okay, he used to just put a

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Speaker 1: beep over what I said. The coast of Spain. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I would go. I've always wanted to go to Spain.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that felt like you just like picked a random thing.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I've wanted to go to Spain like.

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Speaker 2: Well, because my question is, are you the type of

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Speaker 2: person who wants on a honeymoon to just have like

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Speaker 2: a relaxing like time or do you want to go

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Speaker 2: on like a trip and like see things and experience

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Speaker 2: parts of the world. It could be both.

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Speaker 1: I want to be a little bit. I want to

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Speaker 1: relax and experience a little bit. No, I do not

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Speaker 1: need to be hitting up every museum and all the land. No,

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Speaker 1: So that that answers it. We're not going to Paris

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Speaker 1: because I do want to go to like the like

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Speaker 1: that would be great and see certain sites, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't think I want to be doing that on

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Speaker 1: my honeymoon.

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Speaker 2: That's how I felt. I was thinking about Hawaii, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like if I go to Hawaii, I want

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Speaker 2: to be doing activities the whole time and like traveling

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Speaker 2: different places. So we just went somewhere and I just

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Speaker 2: laid down for a week.

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Speaker 1: See. Yeah, I could see myself like in some zero

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Speaker 1: horizon pool somewhere off the coast of somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: on a pool where there's like no infinity. Is that

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Speaker 1: not called a zero horizon pool?

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Speaker 2: It could be called both. There was an infinity pool

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Speaker 2: at where we went on our honeymoon.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a zero horizon pool more commonly called an infinity pool.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just part of.

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Speaker 2: The your special Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It also could be called by some people a vanishing

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Speaker 1: edge pool. It creates the illusion that the water has

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Speaker 1: no edge, appearing to fall into the surrounding landscape or horizon.

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Speaker 1: That's me because I don't love the beach, like I

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Speaker 1: don't love sand and salt water, but I like the

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Speaker 1: sound of the ocean. You know, some pools are saltwater pools.

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Speaker 1: I can deal with the saltwater pool. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be in the saltwater ocean with creatures. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the sand, so I can be in a pool. Correction,

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Speaker 1: it's not so much the salt water as it is

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Speaker 1: the creatures creatures in the sand. So, okay, take me

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Speaker 1: to the coast of Spain, just to the hotel pool.

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Speaker 2: You could probably go to a really nice resort in Spain, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or like a really nice resort in Grease. But then

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Speaker 2: my my thing is like if you go to a resort,

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Speaker 2: you don't really know where you are if you're not

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Speaker 2: going on like excursions. So save the Grease trip for

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Speaker 2: when you go to explore. Okay, so shall we go

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Speaker 2: to contempt.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: So do you know what contempt means outside of this,

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Speaker 2: like outside of the four horsemen? I feel like I

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Speaker 2: don't use that word.

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Speaker 1: I don't really use that word here in court, contempt

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Speaker 1: of court and content of the same.

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Speaker 2: Can you look, because contempt essentially means like you believe

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Speaker 2: that there something's below you, Okay.

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Speaker 1: A contempt of court is an act of disobedience or

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Speaker 1: disrespect towards the judicial branch of the government or an

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Speaker 1: interference with its orderly process. It's an offense against a

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Speaker 1: court of justice or a person whom the judicial functions

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Speaker 1: of the sovereignty have been. Well, we just got a

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Speaker 1: little complicated with our words there, but.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense because that is aligned with.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, so the exact definition, which you may have it,

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Speaker 1: you can read it, okay, the feeling that a person

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Speaker 1: or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless or deserving scorn.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so that's just a sad.

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Speaker 2: Well when you don't want your partner to feel that

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Speaker 2: way about you, nor do you want to feel that

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Speaker 2: way about your partner. And so that's why this is

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Speaker 2: the one that I think is the biggest predictor that

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Speaker 2: your relationship is not going to make it. If you're

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Speaker 2: seeing contempt in the relationship, you're not too far gone,

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Speaker 2: because there is the antidote, but you're pretty far You

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Speaker 2: really don't want to get to this point, and contempt

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Speaker 2: comes after criticism because it feels like it almost feels

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Speaker 2: like it's like if criticism is like sticking the knife

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Speaker 2: in somebody, contempt is twisting it. It's taking it a

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Speaker 2: step farther. You're not accidentally being mean to somebody. I

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Speaker 2: think sometimes when we're criticizing people, we don't mean to

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Speaker 2: be mean. We're struggling with kind of expressing ourselves. This

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Speaker 2: is like you are showing this person that they are

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Speaker 2: less than you. It includes in a relationship being disrespectful,

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Speaker 2: like just being disrespectful towards the person, which there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways that can actually look and mocking somebody

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Speaker 2: using sarcasm. I know we talked about that with last week.

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Speaker 2: This is not using sarcasm to be less vulnerable. It's

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Speaker 2: using sarcasm to like make somebody feel bad. What do

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Speaker 2: you think I feel like, You're like.

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Speaker 1: Well, because I'm just imagining like being in this relationship,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm also evaluating my sarcasm and my relationship.

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Speaker 2: There is a fine line between sarcasm when we are

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Speaker 2: avoiding vulnerability or when we are avoiding confrontation. Even yeah,

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Speaker 2: like making a joke because there's fear somewhere around, like

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Speaker 2: really sharing how I'm feeling. Okay, this is sarcasm to

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Speaker 2: like put somebody down. Imagine a bullying school. They're making

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Speaker 2: fun of other people in front of a group of people,

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Speaker 2: and they're being sarcastic, like making fun of something you

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Speaker 2: did to hurt you.

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Speaker 1: Like with contempt. Now I'm aligning it with like just

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Speaker 1: like disgust.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is probably discust in that person because you

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Speaker 2: have to kind of have a level of disgust towards

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Speaker 2: this person to want to make them feel this way.

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Speaker 2: When you love somebody and care about somebody and respect somebody,

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Speaker 2: that's a huge part of this. The respect is gone.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to want to do this to somebody.

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Speaker 2: And if you did do this accidentally, you would feel

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Speaker 2: guilt because if I respect somebody, I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: want to also do this. I mean, there's like mimicking them,

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Speaker 2: like in a mean way. Sometimes Patrick will like mimic

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Speaker 2: the way I do something or a face that I

357
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Speaker 2: make being playful. This is mimicking you to make fun

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Speaker 2: of you, to make you hurt, and wanting that person

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Speaker 2: to know that they are less than huge part you

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Speaker 2: want that other person to feel bad. It's almost a

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Speaker 2: way of gaining control of the situation. You look scared.

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of people that might be in this

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Speaker 1: situation and how small you must feel if this is

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Speaker 1: how your partner treats you.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I or.

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Speaker 1: Like how exhausting, And then that circles back to the

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Speaker 1: illness thing of like, yeah, you're so worn down that like,

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Speaker 1: no wonder you might get sick more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. My fear is people that are in a relationship

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Speaker 2: where one partner is very contemptuous of the other, is

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Speaker 2: that you do lose a you part of your self

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Speaker 2: esteem and self worth. So even the fighting back, you

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Speaker 2: might not even be as defensive because you've kind of

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Speaker 2: already been just like pushed down so far. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if we see somebody doing this, and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: my experience watching Couple's Therapy, I'm like in my head

377
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Speaker 2: yelling at the TV screen, being like, leave this person.

378
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Speaker 2: He is treating you terribly. They are not being kind

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Speaker 2: to you. You deserve better. Like in my head, I'm

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Speaker 2: just like, how could you stay after hearing this and

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Speaker 2: that person's experience that's in it, they're hearing through the

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Speaker 2: lens of well this is who I am. Now, like

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Speaker 2: I am this, I might not feel like I deserve better. Yeah,

384
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Speaker 2: So this is more so if you're seeing somebody that

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Speaker 2: you love in a relationship like this and you're just

386
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Speaker 2: wanting to yell at them and say like leave them,

387
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 2: or even if you're a helping professional and you want

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Speaker 2: to be like leave them, or you're getting frustrated with somebody.

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Speaker 2: From our perspective, it looks and feels very different than

390
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 2: the person who's in that relationship, and so it's very

391
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 2: helpful to offer extra grace and care and empathy to

392
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 2: that person versus judge them for staying in a relationship

393
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Speaker 2: like that. Obviously, if you have a strong self esteem

394
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Speaker 2: and self worth, you're not going to stay in a

395
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Speaker 2: relationship like that. If you have the ability to leave.

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Speaker 1: Is the person do you think? I mean, I'm sure

397
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Speaker 1: it's case my case, But like when the contempt shows

398
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: up or that contemptuous behavior, but similar to a narcissist,

399
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Speaker 1: which I'm not saying just because you're contemptious in a

400
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: relationship doesn't mean you're a narcissist, right, But like narcissists

401
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: have charming sides and they have like their love bombing

402
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 1: face and you can be very charismatic, like, when you're

403
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: in a contemptuous relationship, does that partner still offer like

404
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 1: lovey awesome moments?

405
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Speaker 2: I think it depends, and you can be in a

406
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 2: relationship where that does happen, and that's even more confusing.

407
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I was thinking, like it sucks you back

408
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: in and you're like, oh, look how they are and

409
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Speaker 1: like this is just.

410
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 2: Well, And I think when you're in a relationship like that,

411
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 2: it probably didn't start that way. So if you're struggling

412
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 2: with it, a lot of times you're having that rosy

413
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: retrospect where you're looking back and you're remembering the good

414
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 2: times and not seeing the stuff that might outweigh those

415
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: good times. So there's not one way this looks. So

416
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: to answer that question, yes, and not always. It depends, right,

417
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 2: And like I said earlier, this usually happens when a

418
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: couple has the ability to recover from this. It usually

419
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 2: did not start that way, and it usually builds out

420
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: of a continuation of not being able to share your

421
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 2: feelings and talk about things, and so you build these

422
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,679
Speaker 2: feelings up and the person who's contemptuous might have created

423
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 2: a story in their head where you are what they're

424
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: saying because they have not expressed their needs to you,

425
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 2: and so they keep getting angry or keep getting frustrated,

426
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: or keep getting To use a very stakes example, like

427
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: imagine your job was to take out the trash and

428
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: you never did it, and ten years go by and

429
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 2: you still have not done it. But I have not

430
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 2: asked you to do it or reminded you. I'm just

431
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 2: resenting when resenting resenting you for ten years because you

432
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: can't take the trash out. So I'm building that story up. Yeah,

433
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 2: that scenario happens, But you know what I mean.

434
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Speaker 1: Do you have like examples of things that they might say.

435
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have ways of sounds. And before I get

436
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: to that, I want to make sure I say this

437
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: that one of the biggest issues with contempt I might

438
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 2: have said this already is once you get there, this

439
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: safety is lost. So without safety in a relationship, it's

440
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 2: essentially poisoned. If there's no safety in a relationship, you're

441
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 2: not going to come to somebody and be vulnerable, right,

442
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: and you're going to hide and you're going to run

443
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: away from those conversations, conversations that really need to be happening,

444
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 2: and even therapy can be scary because therapy is very vulnerable.

445
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: And so that's one thing that if you start to

446
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: see this, take it seriously from the very beginning, because

447
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 2: the more this builds, the less safety you have, and

448
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: then you're gonna have a less opportunity to have the

449
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: relationship you really want.

450
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: Can you clarify safety, because as like I'm hearing it

451
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: as Layman's person here over here, like I'm thinking, like,

452
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: are you not talking about physical safety? You're talking about

453
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: just like emotional safety.

454
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: There's no emotional.

455
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: Can'ty vulnerable with this person anymore?

456
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: Yes, because when you have relational safety within a person,

457
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: like I feel very emotionally safe with you. Earlier today

458
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: I walked in and I was not my best self.

459
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 2: I knew that I could do that in this space

460
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 2: because I know that there's not judgment and that our

461
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: relationship can still be good even if we have moments

462
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 2: where we're not our best. I cannot have it all together,

463
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: or I can like let true parts of like my

464
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: shadow side that I don't really want everybody to see

465
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: come out and there won't be this you won't use

466
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: that against me, right right? That's also why when we

467
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: have disagree we can talk to each other about them,

468
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: or if we're frustrated with each other, Like I know

469
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 2: if I do something that upsets you, well, I believe

470
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 2: this if I do, mostly because it's happened. For if

471
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: I do something that upsets you, I feel safe knowing

472
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 2: that you will come to me, because I think you

473
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: also know that I will be able to hear you.

474
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, vice versa. Yes, because we have safety in our relationship. Okay,

475
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: and go to clarify. While that could be an issue

476
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: for some people specifically, what you're talking about when safety

477
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: is lost when this shows up is the real emotional safety.

478
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: But I would also say if there's physical abuse happening

479
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: in a relationship, they're probably is contempt there as welles Yeah,

480
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 2: but they're not like mutually losing. Okay, So what this

481
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: can sound like? So I'm just going to give you

482
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: some phrases that like this somebody who's being contemptuous. This

483
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: could be what they say calling somebody pathetic, like you're

484
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: so pathetic.

485
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: They just feel like they someone has to be drunk

486
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: to say this or something thing, but I was wrong,

487
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: but you would think like out of their mind, like

488
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: someone you're telling me. Somebody sober could say that just

489
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: says to someone you're pathetic.

490
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 2: And that's very outright, Like you could even be more

491
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 2: kind of insidious with this, and it sound more like

492
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 2: why would you ever think that, Like if somebody's mess

493
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: something up, or let's say somebody missed something on a calendar,

494
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: it's not that hard to write things down your calendar,

495
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: but of course you did that. Of course that happened

496
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: to you, you know, putting somebody down. If somebody's expressing

497
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: they had a hard day, like the contempt could sound like, oh,

498
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 2: you think you've had a rough day, try and living

499
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: in my life for an hour, you would never last,

500
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 2: like making like you're so small and weak. So they're

501
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: saying your week without saying your week in that moment

502
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: where that person can also just say you're pathetic, you're

503
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: so selfish, you should be ashamed of yourself, Like sharing

504
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: with somebody that like you should be ashamed of yourself,

505
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: versus is like, oh, how are you holding up with that?

506
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: If we're feeling shame, Like it's okay to feel shame

507
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: and talk about that with your partner. And that's also

508
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: saying like it's not okay to mess up, because if

509
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: you messed up and you forgot something, I'm not coming

510
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: at you and saying you should be ashamed of yourself.

511
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: That's so embarrassing. Yeah, I'm like, oh that sucks. I'm

512
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: so sorry. The contempt sounds jarred because it is. It is.

513
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you're right, you're like, this should be jarring.

514
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if the other part with this too, and

515
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: that can be really tough from the recipient is when

516
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: you confront them about that, when they're like, well, that

517
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 2: was mean. They can use phrases like I'm just telling

518
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,479
Speaker 2: you how it is. Well, if you can't handle the truth,

519
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: then don't ask those kinds of things where it sounds

520
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: like they're doing almost like you a favor or it's

521
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: your fault. So good times the good news.

522
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want the antidote there is that.

523
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: There is an antidote, and that's with everything. So if

524
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: you haven't listened to the other two episodes of The

525
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: Four Horsemen, they offer an antidote for each of the horsemen.

526
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: This one is actually, I think just something we should

527
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: be doing in general and all of our relationships and

528
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: just keeping in mind with all of our relationships it's

529
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: just building a culture of appreciation and respect. And then

530
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: there's two ways to do like two tips to do this.

531
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: There's probably way more, but I'm gonna give you two.

532
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: So the first one is just knowing that there is

533
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: a five two to one ratio. Did you know this ratio?

534
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: I know this from just from Gottman as well. Yeah,

535
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: the for every bad experience or negative encounter you have

536
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: in your relationship you need five positives to make up

537
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: for it.

538
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: Is that it Yeah, that's a good job, and that

539
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: comes from their research. Is like, we hold on to

540
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: a negative comment or experience five times more than the positive,

541
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: and we can use that towards anything like think about

542
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 2: how if one person makes a negative comment about what

543
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: you look like, that holds way more weight than if

544
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: somebody says something possible about what you look like. We

545
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: just receive feedback differently positive and negative. I really wish

546
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: we could find a solution for that.

547
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: Well, I was reading something the other day I cannot

548
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: remember where, so I'm going to paraphrase it. But back

549
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: when we were in survival mode, like I don't know,

550
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: Caveman type days, like negative experiences helped keep us alive,

551
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: so we remembered those more than a positive because if

552
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: you remember something that's a threat or negative, then you

553
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: know how to better be ready.

554
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably part of it. I also think that

555
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: confirmation bias is there too, So if we have insecurities,

556
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 2: we look for evidence to prove that those things are

557
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: Like the little critic inside of our head is looking

558
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 2: for feedback to hold on to more than we're looking

559
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: for evidence against. So I think there's probably a lot

560
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: of things at play, including what you just said, that

561
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: add to why we hold onto these things heavier. So

562
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: because we can't change that, we can just snap our

563
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: fingers and carry the positive stuff more. What you do

564
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 2: is you just try to balance it out by saying

565
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: more positive things more often. Really, and also part of

566
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: this is noting those positive experiences. So for whatever reason

567
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: as well, we could have twenty things happen that go

568
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 2: great throughout our day, but we just think of them

569
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: as normal. That one negative thing we're going to clock right,

570
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: but we don't clock the positives as much. So part

571
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: of this exercise, I think, is going back through your

572
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: day almost like how you do like gratitude journaling. We

573
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: don't notice how much your gratitude how much gratitude you have.

574
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: Until you actually pay attention to it and write it down,

575
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: you don't notice how many positive things usually happen unless

576
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: you're paying attention to them.

577
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when it came to contentious relationship, how does

578
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: the five to one work? Like the person that like say,

579
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: I say to you, we're having an argument or something,

580
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: and for a reason, I'm like, you're actually like a

581
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: child that's negative. So like then I realize, oh, wow,

582
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: I said that to you. Now I need to give

583
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: you some positive experiences.

584
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: No, may back up, because that's this is confusing.

585
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make it confusing.

586
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: No, No, this is I think that I'm glad you

587
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: pointed this out because I'm sure other people are thinking this.

588
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: This is not are you saying I'm stupid. I'm just kidding.

589
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: I'm being contempious to myself.

590
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: This is not to balance out the contemptuous behavior. Yes,

591
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: we're trying to get rid of that. When you can't

592
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: balance out contemptuous behavior, you don't want to be in that, Okay,

593
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: Because also that goes back to your point of you

594
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: go through those like the cycle of them being really

595
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: charming and kind and then they're mean you never want

596
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: to normally the contemptuous behavior. This is because a lot

597
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: of times you become contemptuous because you've forgotten what you

598
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: really care about these people, like what you like about

599
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: these people. This happens like usually a roads over time.

600
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: And so we're trying the gatmins are really in this,

601
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 2: trying to peel back and help you remember why you

602
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: really are in the relationship with this person, because there's

603
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: a reason you guys were together.

604
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: We're trying to Yeah.

605
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: So the more I can compliment these people, the more

606
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: I can remind myself that this good experience happened or

607
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: something like that, the more I'm taken back to the

608
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: good memories and the good feelings I have towards this

609
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 2: person versus the negative.

610
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: Oh okay, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, this makes sense,

611
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: because I was like, Wow, the contemptuous person's gonna have

612
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: to realize they said something rude and then say five

613
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: nice things after. But I know it's not as simple

614
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: as that, So thank you for clarifying that. This is

615
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: more so yeah, getting back to the root of what

616
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: first drew you to this person and there, and there's

617
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: probably a lot of things there, but you don't focus

618
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: on them, because you just focus on the ones that

619
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: the things that are annoying you. Yeah.

620
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can all look at moments less where we're

621
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: doing that for sure. And the other tip with this

622
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: antidote is just small things often, so it kind of

623
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: feeds off of that, is to note with your partner

624
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: small things because we hold on to big things, especially

625
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: positive like we remember when they bought us flowers, or

626
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: when they plan this trip or when they did this

627
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: thing that's like big and maybe not normal versus small things. Often,

628
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: can you point out the everyday things you like about somebody,

629
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: or the everyday things that made you feel appreciated or

630
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: that you had fun with or something like that. It

631
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: can be as simple as like notice that you you

632
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: love waking up next to your partner.

633
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: Or my boyfriend and I were driving the other day

634
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: and I just told him this today because we were

635
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: on the phone this afternoon and I think we were

636
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: talking about like our relationship of how it's evolved because

637
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: some conversation at dinner the other night the other night

638
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: with another couple and like courting and you know, guys

639
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: paying for things, and then like when does the girl

640
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: start sort of paying? And I don't know. I'm just

641
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: giving you a little bit of the backstory. Like we

642
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: were just talking about yeah, like or if you're going

643
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: on a trip, like who pays for what? And one

644
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: of the persons there was of the mindset that, like

645
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: the guy should just always pay for everything, like it

646
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: didn't matter. And my boyfriend I didn't necessarily agree with that,

647
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: but in the early dating, like for dinner and stuff,

648
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: it is nice for me and and even him like

649
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: he would want to pay. He's like, I don't. I

650
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: would never like first or second date be like you know,

651
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: but some people are just different.

652
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: It's not like we're people would actually be offended by that.

653
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they want to pay, like or they want

654
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: to go Dutch, or the women maybe want to feel independent.

655
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

656
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying how we do is right, but

657
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: we are happened to be in alignment on that. And

658
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: so somehow the conversation evolved into like little things that

659
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: we do to show each other, like here, and I

660
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know, the other day when we were

661
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: in the car and he was driving, and then he

662
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: had one hand on the wheel and then he came

663
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: over to my neck with his other hand and just

664
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: kind of like massage my shoulder and my neck a

665
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: little bit while we were driving down the road, and

666
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: I was like, I've thought about that multiple times since then,

667
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and that was such a simple act, so easy, no money.

668
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: We felt what I felt cared for, just like how

669
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: they're trying to say women feel cared for if the

670
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: guy's pining for meal. Well, I felt cared for just

671
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: with the random shoulder massage while driving down the road,

672
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: like something about that I loved and I wanted to

673
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: make sure that I express that so that he'll do

674
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: it more.

675
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think often we assume that men don't

676
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: need as much affirmation as we do or as women do,

677
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: and they do. Like men want to be cared for too,

678
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: and want to be appreciated and want to be want

679
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: to feel secure as well, Like they don't just walk

680
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: around having all the confidence in the world all the time.

681
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: I think they feel pressure to do that or feel that.

682
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: So that makes a big difference. Like letting him know

683
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: that you felt good by such a small, tiny thing

684
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: that he did probably felt just as good as the

685
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: thing that he did to you. That makes sense. Yeah,

686
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: so there you have small thing, Yes, small things often

687
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: and that's something that you can just randomly do or

688
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: you can see you yeah, or you can that can

689
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: be a ritual. What you guys do as an exercise

690
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: if you're helping your relationship back on track, is like weekly,

691
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: do a check in and like talk about a couple

692
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: of things, or you could do this nightly, but that

693
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: just seems like a lot a couple of things that

694
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: maybe that person didn't know that they did that you

695
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: really appreciated, or something new that you learned that you

696
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: loved about them. Like I didn't think that I would

697
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: love watching my husband watch sports, but sometimes it's really

698
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: cute to watch them get so excited about something and

699
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: then I start appreciating that.

700
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. It makes you think of the

701
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: three a's with my kids, the asking, affirming, and well,

702
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: what's the other A? Ask?

703
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: Affirm M Well, I when I was taught it was regrets, requests,

704
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: and affirmations. So I was one of them.

705
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: Was sorry, no ask. There was like asking for something

706
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: you need or want, but there's then there was also

707
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: is there anything I need to ask for forgiveness or

708
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: like that I've done that I need to know about,

709
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: And then there's affirming, but it wasn't ask ask affirms,

710
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: so what was the other a? It's like, ask why

711
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: is my brain doing this right now? Acknowledge no, ask

712
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: ask an affirm what are some other a's appreciation? Oh well,

713
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: my brain can't think of it right now. We'll get dang,

714
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: it's good. But that was what my therapist was. My

715
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: kids they were saying, do it as a nightly check in,

716
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: which for us as a family did get overwhelming, so

717
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: we kind of stopped, but it served for a season.

718
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: So affirm no because I.

719
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: Find like an acknowledge.

720
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it could be acknowledged.

721
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: Because when we do regrets, requests and affirmations, it's that

722
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: acknowledging could be the regret.

723
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: Yeah it works for now. Okay, we'll take it because

724
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: it starts with an A and it fits. But really

725
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: it is just about also checking in, checking in, but

726
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: without a laundry list. So while every night seem overwhelming,

727
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: but you only got one, ask or what you can

728
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: be like, well, you did all of these things, and

729
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: I need you to feel bad about them all or

730
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: I need like for my kids, that's when they can say, hey,

731
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm out of these socks, like they can make a note,

732
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: but you only ask for one thing per.

733
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: Well, I would say with if you're trying to pull

734
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: yourself out of a contemptuous relationship, to just stick with

735
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: the affirmations for a little bit.

736
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably, But.

737
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: Once you graduate, then you can do the other things,

738
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: because not acknowledging those other things is what gets you

739
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: to be contemptuous too.

740
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: And we can't even remember what the other things are.

741
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: So just affirm a firm affirm, affirm the three a's. Yeah,

742
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: keep it simple, m hm cool, kiss, Yeah, keep it simple, silly, silly,

743
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: because we don't want to say stupid yea, because that's

744
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: not contemptuous. Okay, Part three, Yeah, that's a wrap. So

745
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: next week we will be doing part four, which is

746
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: stoneballing stone walling.

747
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, secret just like comes in from out of nowhere.

748
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: What stone walling. I just feel like it shows up

749
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: out of nowhere.

750
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: I know of stone walling. It's quiet, okay, I know

751
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: of stone wall like from what I've seen from narcissist

752
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: type stuff.

753
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: I really meant like it's quiet because it's literally yeah

754
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: what it is, shutting shutting down off.

755
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, Well we hope you have the day

756
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: you need to have. Bye bye,