WEBVTT - From The Archive: Sam Taylor-Johnson 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.800 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeart Radio 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:11.760 and Adami's Studios. I would like to remember exactly when 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.760 I met Sam Taylor Johnson. Was it at the Tate 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.960 in nineteen ninety eight when she was awarded the Turner Prize, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.120 Or the day she entered the River Cafe a beautiful 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.639 young woman with her first baby, Angelica in her arms. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.360 Was it when she came to see Richard with a 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.479 book of her astonishing photographs. Were we just invited to 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.680 a wild and glamorous party in her home that was 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.879 part of, as Sam says, the blur of what London 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.680 was in the late nineties. And when was the last 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.440 time I sat with Sam? Was it in a bar 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.879 with the love of her life, Aaron, or recently when 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.000 they missed a flight to Sicily and joined a lunch. 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.840 And how often have I asked where is Sam in London? 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:02.440 Preparing to director Amy Winehouse, trekking in Nepal, in the 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.600 south of France with Elton, or looking for a school 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.600 in Somerset for her young daughters. The one thing I 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.880 can always know is that wherever she is, whatever she 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:18.959 is creating, Sam is an extraordinary woman. I love her. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:26.000 Oh, how do I go into that without tears streaming? 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.880 Well, we go into it with food. We can start 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.600 off with a recipe that you chose, which is. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:40.000 Risotto with puccini and girols. One kilogram of mixed fresh 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.199 puccini and giroles, cleaned and chopped, extra virgin olive oil, 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.800 one garlic clove, peeled and finely chopped, one teaspoon of 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.120 fresh thyme, one liter of chicken stock, one hundred grams 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.680 of unsalted butter, one medium red onion, finely chopped, three 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.080 hundred grams of risotto rice, two hundred and fifty milli 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.400 liters of extra dryvermooth. Now that's the thing that sends 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.040 me running around the house when I'm about ten minutes 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:05.720 into cooking it, just like, do we have the mooth? 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.639 Do we read a recipe twice? 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.120 Two hundred grams of parmesan, freshly grated. I actually cooked 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.320 this last night. I thought I practiced, just to remind 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.760 myself what happened about five minutes in Aaron Aaron's here? 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:19.960 What did what happened? 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.240 The mood do we have? I can't make this without 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:24.679 the mooth? 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.720 I'm going to go. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:30.600 And everyone was running around trying to find the but 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.160 it's what makes it. In a frying pan, heat three 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.120 tablespoons of olive oil, Add the mushrooms with the chopped 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.720 garlic and thyme, season and fry for a couple of 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.320 minutes until any liquid has evaporated. In a saucepan, heat 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.959 the butter with the remaining olive oil. Add the chopped onion, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.760 and cook until the onion is soft. Add the rice 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.080 and stuff. Now, what's so great about this recipe is 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.320 it's really good if you want to have people around 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.920 for dinner but not necessarily engage with them the entire time. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.480 Yes, I cared you you at the latest movie. I'm 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.440 stirring a resulta. 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.760 Exactly, I'm stirring a result. But it sort of also 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:07.919 gives you something to do, so you're you know, you're 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.720 active if you're not sure what to talk about. It's 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.160 sort of a perfectly sociable, unsociable meal to cook. Pour 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.800 in the vermouth and cook until it's been absorbed, stirring 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.800 all the while, then adding the hot stock ladle by Ladel. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.200 Continue to cook until the rice is identity. Add the 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.480 wild mushrooms, the remaining butter, the parmesan and the chopped parsley, 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.920 and well, the best rosotto ever good. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:32.520 It's comforting resulta. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.280 But this was the first thing I ever cooked from 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.120 your cookbook, which is why I think it was in 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.040 one of the earlier ones. Yeah, I'm going to be 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.760 brave and attempt to resott it. Did you cook when 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:42.560 you were a kid? Did you? 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:42.880 No? 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:43.680 Not at all. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:50.320 I didn't grow up in an environment where cooking was celebrated. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:58.200 Food was made to eat to live. Frozen pizzas, margarine, 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.760 you know that that was to put in when you 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.600 come home from school, make for yourself and eat just a. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.800 Make for yourself. So would you sit down to a 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.720 family meal or everybody taken care of that? 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:18.039 I almost can't remember family meals. So I think that's 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.760 again why I feel so excited about a kitchen very alive, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.880 with food being cooked and bread being baked, and aromas 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:32.839 and activity, because as was definitely not not that environment. 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.680 Sometimes I talk to people who grew up with the 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.159 romantic idea of the family sitting down to a family 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.160 supperer and sitting and talking about the day, and some 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.000 people described having a mother that worked the night shift, 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.719 or a mother or father who came home from work 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.680 and were exhausted, or they came home from work and 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.359 they would prefer to do homework with you then cook. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.240 I mean, there are many reasons why the image of 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:04.040 the family perhaps is somewhat romanticized, but it is important 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.479 something that, as you say, we try and create for 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.640 our kids. But you didn't have a role model for that, 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.200 so you had the reverse, but you changed it for 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:14.039 your own family. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.839 I did have the rest. 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.240 And you know, sometimes, especially doing something like this, you 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.880 sort of look back and try and find that memory. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:23.080 Now. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.479 I definitely remember my mom made a dish that she 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.839 would be proud of, which was a rabbit dish with mustard, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.760 I think, but that was something that was that would 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.920 come out. I don't know it would be a big thing. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.440 But the rest of the time, it was moral survival. 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.800 What was she doing or your father doing? Was your 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:45.320 father there? 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:46.560 It was my stepfather? 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:47.000 Really? 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.640 Who who my sort of that part of my life 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.000 is more of a memory. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.559 And so do you think they were doing other things 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.440 rather than cook or did they just not? 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.159 It's a complicated history and it's hard to go into 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.520 not because not because it is sort of full of 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.760 sort of trauma and pain, but it's more that I 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.839 actually have this sort of almost blackout of I don't 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.279 actually have that much memory from that. 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:13.320 Time in my life. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.760 And also if I do go into it or I 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.360 talk about it, I sort of feel a hope that 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.200 I've evolved to a place where I don't I don't 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.600 want to sort of talk about it with malice. It's 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.279 not that they were working. I think it was more 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.400 struggle survival and mental health, to be honest, and a 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:34.640 lot of a lot of just difficult scenarios. 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.080 Did you have coparts? 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.480 But they died when I was quite young, so I 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.200 don't really have a memory of them in terms of, 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.719 you know, I had sort of I had a great 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.360 Auntie Gladys, and a great uncle Les, who I felt 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.479 very close to, who lived in Shepherd's Bush. There was 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.440 a lot of time around their house in Shepherd's Bush, 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.800 and they were very much sort of meet and too 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.800 veg and I remember going home one day and saying 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.440 to my auntie Gladays, I'd say, I can't have roast chicken. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.080 I'm a vegetarian, and she said, what chicken is not 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:05.880 really an animal? 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:08.400 Of course you can eat it. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:10.120 I can't. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:13.920 But but that was the sort of stability. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.600 For me, they were this, you know, the stable hold, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.360 the home where I would go to as a student 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:20.520 to know that I could be fed. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:27.480 Did you struggle with food? Did you enjoy it? Did you? Yeah? 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.200 And I have school lunch when. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.360 I did, but I was a free school dinner's kid, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.520 so I was in the opposite queue. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:33.920 To my friends. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:35.360 Well, they had different queues. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:36.400 They had different. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:37.240 Cues, disgusting. 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.160 There was the queue on the left, which was the 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:41.800 regular queue. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.440 Of Dickens, and then there was the free school dinner's line. 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.480 And and I wasn't always in the free school dinner's line. 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:50.880 There were moments where I was in it, and there 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.120 are moments where I could bounce over to the other side, 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.440 and I just always remember the dread of today I 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.360 have to go in the free school dinner's line, and 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.320 that fear of just like you know, feeling separate from 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.280 all your friends and just that sort of feeling a 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:07.720 little bit of shame that comes with. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.200 Him or maybe a lot. So you had school lunches 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:12.080 and then. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:17.280 School lunches and then home. Yeah, mostly yeahs and pizzas. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.720 Where did you go out? Firstly in London until I 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:24.440 was eleven in stratum and then after that we moved 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.480 to the countryside to Sussex. But that was a big shock. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.679 I was terrified of trees. It was so funny because 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.959 I was such an urban girl until then, and then 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.880 the idea that I had to walk down these country 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:36.840 lanes with trees. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:38.120 It was quite funny. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.160 Interesting because a lot of the people that I've talked 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.199 to think about the way they struggled in their youth, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.880 whether they were from another country, whether their parents were 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.319 uncomfortable in being in England, whether they or in the 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.679 United States, wherever they were, people who struggled with money, 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.680 with divorce and all this is to do, you know, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.800 with food and how those memories above and also I 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.679 don't know if you feel, but they measure and I 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.960 don't know if you do, measure their almost their success 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.600 by being able to order something delicious on the menu. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.000 Paul McCartney, the able to order a good glass of 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:23.440 wine was something away that they measured their their own 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.960 success totally. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.440 I mean, we never ate out, so eating out really 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.360 came to me in adult life. And I think that 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:38.319 the first time I realized food was for pleasure. Yeah, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:44.240 was actually a college trip to Rome or post college. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.120 I can't really remember, but we went to a small 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.800 little restaurant and I ordered something because I had absolutely 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:56.640 no idea what to expect, tabulatary with lemon lemon pasta, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.760 and I remember eating it and just having this sort 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.360 of total, you know, explosion of flavor and thoughts and 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:08.280 feelings about is this what food can be? And that 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.040 feeling of tasting something which just kind of completely opens 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:17.760 your mind to potential. I guess that, and that you know, 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.880 it wasn't expensive, it was affordable, and that I could 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:25.240 eat this amazing food and not frozen pizzas. It was 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.000 a revelation, Yeah, and probably in my sort of probably 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.920 when I was about nineteen, I think then I went 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.440 to art school in Hastings, which was like a massive 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.600 turning point of excitement in my life, and then after 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.200 that into London for art school. 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.480 I always think it's another conversation about artists that creating 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.200 art is very solitary. Yeah, activity that you are in 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.680 your studio and your paint and everybody sort of had 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.000 these kind of wild nights of eating and drinking together 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.680 because it was so solitary during the day. Did you 0:10:58.720 --> 0:10:59.160 find that. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:10:59.599 Or was it? 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.600 Yeah? I think art school for me was like a 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.520 huge door had opened into a world of so much 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.120 possibility and excitement. And I feel like for the first 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.400 two years when I was at Hastings, I was just 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.240 sort of wide eyed and in sort of slight shock 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.000 that I was in this environment and just kept very quiet. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.440 And then I went to Northeast London Polytechnic, which was 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.800 a very robust sort of shipbuilding yard feeling because I 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.320 was in the sculpture department. And then I left there 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.160 after the first year and went to Goldsmith, which by 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.960 comparison felt like a sort of Swiss finishing school because 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.360 people were very elegant and they were talking about ideas, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.880 and I, again I felt very like I was sort 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.599 of sitting on the outside, watching and feeling this environment 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:51.880 being so alien. 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.800 Was that the days of Michael Craig Martin and Damian 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.240 Land and it was and. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.680 That freeze had just happened, So there was a lot 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.400 of debate around this huge exhibition that had sort of 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:05.440 thrown all these young artists that were still at art 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.560 school onto the map, and there was a sort of 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.680 freeze and an anti freeze, and I just sort of 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.160 sat again and sort of listened and felt the debates 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.200 between everything and everyone, but sort of also knew I 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.360 was in the eye of a storm, and I of 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.160 a very exciting transitional moment in the art world because 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.120 these artists like Damien had a studio outside of art 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.559 school and was already you know, functioning as an artist 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.120 and selling and having exhibitions, and Gary Hume and Sarah 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.360 Luca you know, it all was just this sort of 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.960 bubbling energy that I felt but didn't quite know how 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.480 to access because I was still sort of feeling a 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.360 bit quiet on the outside. It really took going to 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.880 Tracy Emmen and Sarah Lucas had a little shop in 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.319 the East End, just off of Brick Lane, and it 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.320 really took going to that little shop to feel that 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.520 anything was possible, that anything they made was art, and 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.880 they were artists and they were allowing themselves to be that. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.079 And it was that moment for me that was quite 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.520 pivotal in understanding I could allow myself to be an artist, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.240 that I could actually sort of say it out loud 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.720 and actually be creative. And I think up until then, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.200 you know, you sort of feel like you're in the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.319 wrong place at the wrong time, and you're not meant 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:22.560 to be there feeling. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.199 Were you as adventurous in your I guess development as 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.520 an artist as maybe in food? Did you go to 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:34.599 Chinese restaurants or Indian restaurants? Did you Indian restaurants or 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:36.079 drink whiskeys? 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.400 No, Indian restaurants was absolutely where we all went because 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:44.360 once I kind of, once I, you know, became friends 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.640 with Tracy, we all would you know, sort of be 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.520 in that neighborhood and we'd all, you know, go in 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.960 and out of all the different Indian restaurants around that 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.360 area and find our favorites, and that's where we would gather. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:01.319 I felt like. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.920 Exactly how you said earlier about McCartney saying it was 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.680 a measure of success. I'm growing into my own person 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.640 because I understand food. I'm growing into my own person 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.679 because I can take myself to a restaurant and I 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:18.040 can actually order something that's completely different to anything I've 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.400 ever tried before. And I think it is it's a 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.640 feeling of one, you're sort of stepping into being an adult, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.920 but also you're stepping into sort of a feeling of 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.400 new success, not necessarily you know, huge financial success, but 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:43.880 beginning to be able to take yourself places. My first 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.280 job as a waiter would have been when I was 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.160 at school. I worked in a local beefeater steakhouse and 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.280 used to have to wear a beefe to Little Apron 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.160 and then Vic Naylor's and Clarkhall. Do you remember Vic 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.360 Naylor's and Clarkwork. It was a great restaurant and I 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.800 I mean it was just fun, fun, fun, but it 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.480 was also terrible because I used to we all used 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.240 to get absolutely trashed. And I remember going to a 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.920 table and someone said do you have any bread? And 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.120 I said yes, let me go and get it. And 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.400 then it was just up the road from Saint John, 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.520 and I said, quick, where's the bread. They're like, oh, 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.160 we don't have any. Can you run to get some 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.800 from Saint John. Absolutely I ran to Saint John and 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.080 then my then manager was. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:27.400 Sat at the bar. I come, I have a drink 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:27.680 with me. 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.720 So I sat down and had a drink which turned 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.680 into two, and I was the bread. I quickly got 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.400 the bread from Saint John and ran back. I've got 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.960 you some bread about an hour ago. This place is terrible. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.960 Let me see the manager. Let me go and get 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.920 him rundown Saint John. Pull him out the bar, and 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.600 the whole story is that. He then went up and said, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.640 you asked to see me. Yes, the service is terrible. 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.320 He said, yes, I agree, Now you should leave. 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:58.200 What year was there? 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.960 That was right after I left art school? 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.080 So lit. 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:05.880 Nine? 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.000 Yeah? Maybe yeah, times have changed. I think you think 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.040 maybe there's still those places, but we've all become much more. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.560 Do you know the story about Damien. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.320 And which one? 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.040 Which one? The one at the grad Show club where 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:27.640 he and aunt completely trashed. I had just I banned 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.680 somebody from the River Cafe for being rude to one 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.840 of my waiters, and I was telling the story I 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.800 was telling out and he said, well, Damien, I went 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.400 and we got completely you know, trash, and we were 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.160 They closed the doors and we were kicked out, and 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:41.640 we went on the street and then we found a 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.280 ladder and we climbed up and we broke a window. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.640 We came in and then we got sick over the 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.480 pool table, and then we went and got some alcohol 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.440 out of the out of the fridge and we drank that. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.920 Then we you know, we took something and we crashed 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.240 out on the sofa. Was Mary Anne, the manager came 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.280 in the next daye said, you know, I could call 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.840 the police. You broke and new enter, you damage my property, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.320 and you stole stuff, you know, but instead of calling 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.399 the police, I am going to ban you for twenty 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.800 four hours. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.159 Twenty four hours, brilliant are the days I had a 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.440 customer who just was slightly rude to somebody, and I said, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:24.760 you could never come back again. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.200 You know, that's the difference. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:27.679 It is a measure of a person. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.000 Well, that's why it's good to I think people date 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.440 people in restaurants, you know, you go on a date 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.360 and see how they are to the waiter, or you 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.240 interview lots of people. Have you ever interviewed anybody for 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:38.480 a job in a restaurant? 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.000 Totally? Yeah, yeah I did you Before I came here, 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.359 I met someone was. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:50.280 Higher for the movie actually yeah, perfect, perfect, perfect and 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:51.040 brilliant O. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:56.720 Good good good. And so from from being an art 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.159 school and then being an artist, what was it like 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.560 in the once you were all working and I hate 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.879 to use the word successful, but successful when you and 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.840 Jay lived in that house and parties? Was food? Did 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.000 you care about food then? Did you think that you 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:13.720 all wanted it? 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:14.000 Was? 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:15.520 It was hard. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.920 It's hard to sort of cast my mind to that era, 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.359 because it's that thing I think Koko Chanel said it, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.720 it's you know, I'm six people away from the person 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.440 I once was. I think, yeah, I sometimes feel like that. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.639 And so when I think back to those times, I 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:33.760 think of myself as a very different person, and so 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.280 so much sort of shift and change within myself happened 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.320 during that period. I was suddenly sort of living in 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.320 this very sort of grand house and living a very 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.880 different life, and and it was all sort of fast 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.119 rolling and high octane, and fast rolling and high octane 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.880 is fun, and then you can't. It's so hard to maintain. 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.480 And I couldn't maintain it. And I definitely sort of 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:02.600 felt like, you know, throw these parties and then I 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.680 would disappear off at about ten o'clock. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.440 I remember the part that you didn't talk about. What 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.200 we haven't talked about in terms of food and being 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.400 an artist, and in that lifetime was when you were ill, yeah, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.920 and the diet that you then, and I remember very 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:28.040 well your rigor in dealing with your illness, in the 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.920 way you ate, and I think it was really before 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.399 a lot of us thought about food and health, and 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.840 you were unhealthy and you use food to think about health. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.000 And you also took you know, you went the scientific route, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:49.639 so you went for the medicine and for the but 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.040 it wasn't alternative. You did it. But you did do 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.760 a diet. I remember you very clearly talked no dairy. 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.040 Yeah, I mean I have. 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:00.840 To sort of almost step out I sided myself to 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.720 talk about it. But yeah, nineteen ninety seven, six months 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.840 after I had Angelico's, my oddest of four daughters, I 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.000 got diagnosed with colon cancer. And of course it was, 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.520 you know, a shock, but there was such an urgency 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.840 in my mind to be well and to get back 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.399 home and be a mother and be present that I 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.960 just sort of, you know, almost jumped out of the 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.680 hospital bed and I'm back, I'm fine. And then three 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.800 years later I got diagnosed with breast cancer. And then 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.280 I didn't leap out of bed, and I didn't say 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:39.080 I'm back, I'm fine. I got sort of quietly retreated 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.800 into myself, I think, and I went to a very 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.600 sort of almost a totally different personality to somebody I 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.679 knew myself as in a way in order to figure 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.480 out a way to get through it. 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.000 And it's it's a. 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.720 Trauma, and in that trauma, you have to sort of 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.520 figure out what are my options, what are my options 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.399 of survival? And obviously when you're in it, you're not 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.720 thinking clearly in that way. But you know, it was 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.760