WEBVTT - Hans Zimmer Scores 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:06.720 M I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to hear the thing. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.680 The score of a movie has a way of enriching 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.760 a film's emotional journey from the profound to the playful. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.280 It is often an unconscious part of why the feeling 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.800 of a movie stays with us long after we leave 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.520 the theater. My guest today is one of the all 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:04.120 time masters of film composition, Han Zimmer. He scored more 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:09.480 than one d fifty movies, including Gladiator, Hannibal, Sherlock Holmes, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.319 The Last Samurai, The Thin Red Line, and many many more. 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.759 Pond Zimmer's work has earned him an Academy Award for 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:23.679 The Lion King, two Golden Globes, and countless more nominations. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.560 In two thousand five, han Zimmer began working with director 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:33.200 Christopher Nolan. It's become one of the most celebrated partnerships 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:38.000 in movie history. For Nolan, Zimmer has scored the Dark 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:45.119 Night Trilogy, Interstellar, Dunkirk, and Inception, which features this song. Time. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:51.560 Hans Zimmer's work spans an eclectic range of feature films, television, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.840 and documentaries. I wanted to know whether his scoring process 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:01.240 is different when he works on animated films. All directors 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.200 are different from each other. But once was invited to 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.360 a dinner party and at the end of the table 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.680 sat Terrence Malick and Vanna Hartzuk. You know, everybody's talking 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.120 at the long table, and then suddenly everybody stops talking 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.880 and it's just the two great artists chatting, and they're 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.000 arguing about which Q in Lion King is better. You know, 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:27.920 these two admirable hoteurs are arguing about Lion King, you know, 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.760 about a kid's movie. So the weird thing is, you know, 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.240 I can talk to Terry Malick about animation, and I 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.359 can talk to Tom mcglass, our director on Boss Baby 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.000 about Thin Red Line, you know, and in one way 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.720 or the other, it's sort of the same thing. Other 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.000 than that, you can get away with a lot more 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.600 in animation, I find, you know, you and I in 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.640 a peculiar way, we give life to something that doesn't 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.880 have life. I mean, it's it's, you know, the whole 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:03.080 point about animation, especially now a CG, where things have 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.120 gotten so refined and they can do such amazing things, 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.519 but the one thing they can't do, they can't really 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.280 truly breathe life in. And so ultimately that the only 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.640 real performances is the actors and the musicians. And for instance, 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.200 what we did on the Last Line King movie. You know, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.040 he did a remake, and I said, what am I 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.160 going to do a remake? And I thought, everybody knows 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.119 the tunes. Everybody in the orchestra knows the tunes. All 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.760 my musicians and know the tunes. I'm going to spend 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.679 a week pretending I'm recording little cues, and in the 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.880 last two days, I'm literally going to make it about Okay, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.960 we're going to run the movie from the beginning to 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.600 the end, and you're gonna just hold on for dear life, 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.440 and we're going to record the whole thing as a 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.200 performance because I wanted to have that, you know, the 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.560 thing that you get in a life performance, the thing 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.880 you get in a theater genius mixed with sphere and catastrophe. Well, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.800 we've had people talk to us and they have careers 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.240 in whatever, editing or what have you. And I'm curious, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.560 not in a relationship, let's say with Nolan, where you've 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.000 made a few films with him, or you made a 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.320 couple with Nancy and this his two boss babies and 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.119 so forth, but on your Maiden Voyage with Nolan. Does 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.720 he send you the script and you start to get 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.200 in conversation with him the type of score he wants 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.440 and you start to like riff little things before or 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.440 do you only really get concretized about it until you 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.000 see cut footage. Let's talk about Chris and my working method. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.080 And I think we start off on the wrong foot 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.320 right away because he wanted me to do Batman, and 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.039 I kept saying I don't want to do Batman, and 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.520 finally he said, why don't you do Batman? I said, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.400 I know how to be the dark Knight, but I 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.560 don't know how to be Bruce Wayne. And he said, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.920 that's easy. Get a friend and to be the other character. 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.120 You don't have to be schizophrenic. So I asked my 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.800 friend Jameson Howard, who is you know, one of the 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.280 most elegant composers in the world, to be light and 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.120 let me be my dramatic darctness. And then I was 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.920 working on something in Los Angeles Christmas shooting in London, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:10.520 and he has a way of being very persuasive. He's going, well, yes, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.680 I got this shot of Batman standing on top of 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.760 a building, and I don't quite know how to get 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.240 him there, because I don't want to temper it. But 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.719 it's there something that you can just I mean, it 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.760 doesn't have to be good. Just give me something that 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.000 gets him up there. And so the first time James 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.120 and I saw the movie, it had all our rotten 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.240 little demos in it. But if you go to something 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.600 like inception. I remember Chris phoning me and he's going, hey, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.000 do you want to come down to the beach with 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.000 the kids. Is that how he puts it? Yeah, when 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.080 he needs some music for his movie, let's go down 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.560 to the beach with the kids. And I think that's great. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.680 I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna call Spielberg and let's 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.200 go down to the beach with the kids. Got it worked. 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:58.919 He realized that this idea of the different times and 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.000 the different dreams, it was very complicated to an audience. 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.359 And I said, you look to a musician. It's the 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.960 easiest thing, because that's what we do all the time. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.799 You know, you have a bar and you're divided into 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.200 four quarter notes, and you can divide that time of 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.120 the four quarter notes into eight notes, etcetera. And you 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.239 just keep dividing down and and and play. You're always 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.360 playing with time. So I think at the end of 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.840 the day, it doesn't matter if the audience never gets 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.440 the intellectual conceit of the movie. But just think of 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.880 me like a river and the audience is on a 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.480 little boat, and I take you downstream with the story. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.800 And sometimes it's going to get a little rocky, and 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.160 sometimes it's gonna get a little boring, but you sort 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.440 of know you can trust the river to take you 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.440 on this journey and take you to the end. So 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960 Chris loved that, and we do think very similarly. I mean, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.400 I remember him phoning me from Iceland, so I hadn't 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.560 seen any footage, right, I just about read the script 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.680 he phoned me from. So he's explaining the scene, which 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.680 is and then you have to hit this shot, and 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.960 then this is this, and this is the most important 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.320 scene in the movie. Our lead character is basically seeing 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.080 his whole family through the years, and he's starting to 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.680 cry at a certain moment. You know, I had to 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.000 be pointing, and I finally said to Chris, Chris, I 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.600 don't think I can just do this. I don't think 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.640 I can wing it without some footage. And I remember 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.680 all these cuts in my head, and he says, our 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.360 sense of time, our sense of aesthetics seems to be 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.000 very similar. Just write it, send it to me. If 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.480 it doesn't work, i'll send you the picture. Well, unfortunately 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.680 it works, I said. I found him. I said, how 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.080 how is it? He goes, well, it's within two frames, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.000 but I can go and adjust that. So then he 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.000 finished the shooting and I'm going, okay, show me the movie. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.880 He's going, you know, it's going really rather well. You know, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:58.760 you imagining my movie and writing freely. At which point 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.240 I started to just say, in term pieces of music, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.360 without telling him what they were for, I wouldn't write 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.000 anything on them. I just send the music. But I 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:13.080 very strongly, having read the script, knew what they were for. 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.280 And I was praying and hoping. There's a shot in 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.080 there where Mario Kotia is on a on a ledge 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.560 and her shoe drops just so, and I was so 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.000 hoping that this piece I sent for him was going 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.960 to end up in that spot. And then months down 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.920 the road, when I first saw it, there it was, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.000 and he absolutely got it. So we have this language 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.200 without words, because I think what is really important with 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.520 music is that to me it's an autonomous language. I 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.600 am speaking to you in English, which obviously is not 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.480 my mother tongue, as you might detect from the horrible accent. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:51.679 But if I were to speak to you in a 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.960 couple of cords, I feel unsafer ground and I feel 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.400 more articulate. So that's how Chris and I kept working. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.120 We kept coming up with crazy you know. We did 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.880 a list, for instance, for interstella, of what other things 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.360 we haven't done, you know, and we would cross off 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.320 big drums, I did that one, big halls. Oh, we 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.120 did that one. And then Chris said, what about pipe organ? 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.000 And that became that, you know, because, as he said it, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.960 this is a movie about space and rockets and all 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.000 that stuff. I mean, I saw the shape of the 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.400 pipe organ, and at the same time I saw the 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.520 afterburner of rockets, and I thought both are fabulous pieces 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.720 of technology. Now with Nolan, do you feel that your 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.720 task is to help them understand and help yourself understand 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.960 what they want? Have you ever had conflicts with director 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.400 where you said, I don't agree. How much truth would 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.679 you like? Well, I mean, when my rule on this 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.560 show was I don't want to ruin my career, your 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.440 your Your career can't be ruined. What I'm asking is 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.160 are you there to perform what they want or do 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.679 you consult with them? The director has to trust composer, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.680 and ultimately the composer needs to go and buy into 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:09.360 the director's vision. But music is indefensible. I can write 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.040 you something and play it to you and I think 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.680 it is the greatest fucking thing. And I just answered 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.839 every question you ever had about your character, whatever, and 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.640 you don't get it and it doesn't resonate. So there's 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.040 no way I can sit there and explain to you 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.360 why you should like it, and other resonates or doesn't. 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.920 That's someone. The other thing is I like working with 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.240 directors who spend a minimum of time talking to me 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.040 about what music they want, because as soon as they 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.720 start talking to me about what music they want, my 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:45.040 mind goes off into that thing of going My job 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.719 is to do something that they can't even imagine. My 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.560 job is to knock their socks off. My job is 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.160 to do something that is so beyond anything that they 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.640 could do because otherwise said to it themselves. And you know, 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.080 and it makes me rather done. It makes me a 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.280 musical secretary. Do you think that someone to use a 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.360 you know, a more celebrated example, because everyone knows the 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:12.280 story about Alex north composition for Space Hotessey. Do you 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.960 think that someone like Kubrick lunged in the direction of 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.720 the classical repertoire because he knew what the music was, 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:20.679 He didn't have to wait for somebody to write it. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.240 There it is extant, it's real, I know, I want, 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.480 you know, fun Carreon with the with the vienna and 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.200 this and that, just play the Blue Danube and he 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.600 doesn't have to rely on anybody. Do you find that 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.800 there were some directors who they just don't want to 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.160 give that control? Well, well, it's such a sad you know. 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.400 I mean, first of all, I should let you know 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.720 that Sally Kubrick was the first director that ever fired me. 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:48.760 What the full metal Jacket, and Vivian has started took over, 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.200 but but it became this weird, strange thing. So I 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.160 was really I mean I was maybe eighteen nineteen and 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.800 us but as soon as I was fired in other words, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.920 because I didn't know how to do what he wanted 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.040 me to do. Because Stanny koper knew everything. He had 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.920 studied drumming with Jeane Kruper. He just wanted me to 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.720 be his musical secretary, and I'm not very good at that. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.280 Take dictation, absolutely, take dictation. I mean I would get 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.760 these tape sent drumming with ten fingers on his tabletop 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.320 and go, well, get a drummer to do exactly that, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.960 and you know, so that didn't work. But then once 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.079 I was officially fired, I would get these phone calls 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.319 where he would go, I think Vivian's in a bit 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.440 of trouble. Can you go up there and see if 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.360 she's all right? Oh, he'd go, what do you think 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.120 of Dolby Stereo? I'm eighteen years old, you know, I 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.120 have no idea. I'm talking to Stanley Cooper. How did 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.000 you end up in? I mean, you're eighteen years old. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.040 How does an eighteen year old Hans Zimmer wind up 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.400 within fifty miles of Stanley Cooper? How did that happen? 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.240 Anton first, his designer, who knew me. They were shooting 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.720 for Metal Jacket in the docklands of London, and I 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.320 knew Vivian, who then took over, and so I was 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.560 really helping Vivian, and soon and then years later I 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.920 ran into Vivian and I was just on my way 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.080 to London. She said, oh, we really should go and 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.640 see that. I'm going. Why would I see if he 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.520 goes no, no, no. He's always talking about you. Whenever 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.080 movie comes on television that you did, He's always saying 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.600 I found him. I was the first one who gets. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.520 He forgets the other part. But you know, it's really 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.040 busy and I had to go down to Australia from London, 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.959 so I didn't go and see him because I thought 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:38.160 that Stanley Kubrick is beyond He's immortal, you know, because 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.439 he was Stanley Kubrid. Sure. And I get to Australia, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.760 I get to Sydney and the guy who's picking me 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:48.040 up from the airport coincidentally was a chap who who 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.400 had met on Full Metal Tracket and he's got a 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.640 really sad face. And I realized that, you know, Stanley 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:59.040 had died, which was inconceivable to nature. And I learned, 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.440 don't say no. If somebody says, hey, come on over, interesting, 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.600 you come over. And I learned a lot from him. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:11.600 I learned vast thanks for that. You know, this is 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:32.240 music from the film Chappie. Han Zimmer discovered his musical 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.320 talent very early in life. Another one of our guests 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.240 who took music seriously at a very young age is 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:45.520 classical pianist Long Long. He was a musical prodigy, winning 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.480 his first competition when he was five. Long Long and 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.440 I spoke before a live audience in New York City 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:57.280 in two thousand nineteen. He talked about his father's skepticism 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:02.320 of playing in competitions. He discouraged me to do competitions 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.160 and I was like, wow, did he say why? Yeah? 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.840 He said, then you're too crazy about being number one 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.040 and you're not really focus on what you should be, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.720 you know, learning the repertoire and too. He said, do 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.480 you want to become a great musician or you want 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.880 to just win? And I said, oh, I said, is 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.120 that not the same? I said, well, what was the difference? 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.000 I said, If I don't win a prize, how I'm 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.840 going to become a great musician. Here the rest of 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.040 my conversation with celebrated pianist Long Long that here's the 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:39.080 thing dot org. After the break, Hans Zimmer talks about 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.760 how he went from playing dingy clubs around England and 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:47.080 making coffee for composer Stanley Myers to realizing what he 0:15:47.200 --> 0:16:06.800 wanted to do for the rest of his life. If 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.560 you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.320 to follow Here's the Thing on the I Heart radio app, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:20.000 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alec 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.680 Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. This piece 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:37.080 is from the film Twelve Years a Slave. Hans Zimmer 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:42.040 was born in Frankfurt, Germany. He's largely self taught, and 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.120 even as a child, understood a strong connection between music 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:52.040 and mood. But my father died when I was six 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.040 and I already played the piano. I enjoyed playing the piano, 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.960 but my father died and I realized the only thing 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.440 that made my mother happy, that put a smile on 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.440 her face was when I played the piano. So I 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.520 sort of took on that burden, which then, of course 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.840 backfired because at school I was appalling and everything other 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.080 than playing music. I got thrown out of nine schools. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:19.399 Ultimately I ended up in school in England, fabulous school 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.480 called Heartwood House. You know, it was a choice to 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.400 go back to Germany or hang out in Swinging London. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.000 So by the time of eighteen, I was in the 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.440 back of a Ford transit van going up and down 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.000 the end one playing every working men's club and every 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.840 citty pub. That's the eighties. It was crazy, it was amazing. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.800 There was a company called Working Title that they were 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.560 making music videos and one day channel for new television 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.120 station came about and Working Title decided, since we don't 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.080 know how to make movies, that's okay, they don't really 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.000 know that, but we'll do something called My Beautiful Laundrette, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.080 which was a young Daniel day Lewis, and it was 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:05.040 an extra honory anti Thatcher right, gay Cross everything, you know, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.240 amazingly sort of just mind blowing when nobody saw it coming. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.679 And Daniel kisses this Indian boy and you could feel 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.959 the jaws of the audience hitting the floor. And I 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:24.280 loved it. So Kubrick and that introduction through full Metal. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.280 When you're eighteen years old, had you worked on any 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.679 films who you've been close to any film sets or 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.440 studios before that? Yes? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I had 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.359 a mentor Stanley Meyers that the man who wrote the 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.280 music for The Deer Hunter a brilliant man. And so 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.400 Stanley had this coffee machine. He loved his Italian espresso. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.679 He had bought an unbelievably complicated coffee machine, and so 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.960 my job was to work the coffee machine and Stanley 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.200 would showed me how to write for orchestra. And the 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.760 first day was Stanley Meyers and Nicholas Rogue sitting there 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.280 looking at a scene. In the morning, I was making 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.840 coffee and they're both going, we have no idea what 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.480 to do. And by the evening they had come up 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:16.240 with a mind blowing, beautiful solution, musical solution. And I 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.800 realized that this idea of that you have nothing and 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.240 that you make something out of nothing, and that it's 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.240 just a conversation and you just you just breathed the 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.239 picture in and turn it into notes. That was a 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.080 fantastic adventure. And then Standing I had a little studio, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.880 and Standing was very good friends with the producer Jeremy Thomas, 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.199 who phoned me up one day and said, would I 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.159 mind coming in on Saturday because he had a Reti 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.000 Sakamotive and Bernardo better Lucci coming in to have a 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.399 look at what we act had done on the Last Emperor, 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.240 and would I just go and round the tape machines 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.879 for them. So they piled into my little studio, and 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.000 it turned out that there was a found lack of 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.360 communication and Bato Lucci had re cut the Last Emperor 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.480 as in a flashback, while Sakamoto had scored the previous version, 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.640 which was all in chronological order. And the other thing 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.679 was Sako Moto's idea was that he was going to 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:23.080 play Bernardo the stuff half his friend could recorded at 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.320 Abbey Road, and he was gone because he had him 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.080 tour starting the following day, and so nothing fit. So 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.400 David Byrne from the Talking Heads was the other composer, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.520 and Kong Su, who was a Chinese composer but had 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:41.000 studied in Berlin, was another composer on it. So the 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.360 Chinese composer could only speak German, so I was useful 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.919 in this case. And Jeremy said, can you just go 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.280 up to Appy Roden just sort of sort this out, 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.840 you know, we called the orchestra, and I had no 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.000 idea what four m you know, fifty one whatever something. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.320 There was a real four was not a real too, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.159 but I never heard and I didn't even know what 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.760 scene it was supposed to go. And Bernardo would go, 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.280 why is it getting quiet in the middle of a shot, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.720 and I'm like, tap down things, furiously coming up with 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.800 excuses to sort of not put the blame on reality Sacermoto. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.880 It really wasn't his fault. So that was really my 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:26.440 other introduction. Yeah, and it was like these people are crazy, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.280 these people are genuinely crazy and that. And there was 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.680 one day where Bernar I was working out at Pinewood 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.240 and there was something had gotten and things kept getting lost, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.680 are things kept not happening or whatever? And he felt 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:40.880 me up with most of you because where are the 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.199 Chinese death belts. I didn't know that we're going to 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.800 be Chinese less belt, nor did I even know that 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:49.520 there is such a thing as Chinese death bells. So 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.080 I said, well, okay, I'm really sorry. I'll come right 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.359 over with that Chinese death bells. So I made up 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.040 something on the synthesizer because I thought if I don't 0:21:58.040 --> 0:21:59.879 know what they sound like, he won't know what they 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.680 sound like. And I came over and as I got 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.800 to Pinewood, Bernado's walking up and down at the gates 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.160 to the studio and he's like he's got his hands 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.640 behind his back, and I get out of the column saying, look, 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:13.760 I'm really sorry. It wasn't my fault, by the way, 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.320 It really wasn't, you know. But I wasn't gonna blame anybody. 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.800 It just went it. I'll do it, and Bernano went, look, 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.000 I'm really sorry. I shouted at you, and he handed 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.200 me a box of chocolates and he said, look, even 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:28.920 though I'm the director and I'm paying you, I realized 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.679 that the seconds of your life are going by and 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:36.040 I should be more gracious. That taught me something. I mean, 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.119 the more I worked within the film business at these 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.360 early days, and mostly it was in Soho and mostly 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.920 like Working Title, all our cutting rooms were either above 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.399 a strip club or a pawn shop, and you know, 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.520 and I would run up the stairs with my little 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.440 piece of music and singer up to the picture and 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.479 hold my breath because if the director didn't like it. 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.919 But at the same time I realized it was all entertainment, 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.480 and should it go wrong upstairs, maybe I could get 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.280 a job downstairs at the pond, you know, or the 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:09.919 strip club for that matter, all the strip club for 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:14.800 that matter. Absolutely. And then Working Title offered me, like 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.439 the twentie movie or something like this, that it was 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.560 about the anti apartheit movement in South Africa called a 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:28.520 world apart beauty Beautiful film, Beautiful film. Chris Mingers. So 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.720 We're sitting at the Groucho Club and I'm I'm getting 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.879 so what's the budget? And Tim Bevan says, we're not 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.840 telling you what the budget is. Your wife is pregnant, 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.439 and we know what you do. You take all the 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.199 money that you're supposed to go and take home with 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.359 you and you just spend it on making the movie 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.320 sound good. So we're not telling you what the budget 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:51.840 is this time. So you go and do the movie 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.679 and it's going to be all right. So I did 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.240 the movie and it turned out my daughter was born 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.320 on the first day of working in the film, and 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.560 they opened an account in her name and put the 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:07.200 money in there. So, you know, whatever you say about 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:11.040