1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: M I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to hear the thing. 2 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: The score of a movie has a way of enriching 3 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: a film's emotional journey from the profound to the playful. 4 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: It is often an unconscious part of why the feeling 5 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: of a movie stays with us long after we leave 6 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: the theater. My guest today is one of the all 7 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: time masters of film composition, Han Zimmer. He scored more 8 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: than one d fifty movies, including Gladiator, Hannibal, Sherlock Holmes, 9 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: The Last Samurai, The Thin Red Line, and many many more. 10 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: Pond Zimmer's work has earned him an Academy Award for 11 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: The Lion King, two Golden Globes, and countless more nominations. 12 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: In two thousand five, han Zimmer began working with director 13 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan. It's become one of the most celebrated partnerships 14 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: in movie history. For Nolan, Zimmer has scored the Dark 15 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: Night Trilogy, Interstellar, Dunkirk, and Inception, which features this song. Time. 16 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: Hans Zimmer's work spans an eclectic range of feature films, television, 17 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: and documentaries. I wanted to know whether his scoring process 18 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: is different when he works on animated films. All directors 19 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: are different from each other. But once was invited to 20 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: a dinner party and at the end of the table 21 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: sat Terrence Malick and Vanna Hartzuk. You know, everybody's talking 22 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: at the long table, and then suddenly everybody stops talking 23 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: and it's just the two great artists chatting, and they're 24 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: arguing about which Q in Lion King is better. You know, 25 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: these two admirable hoteurs are arguing about Lion King, you know, 26 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: about a kid's movie. So the weird thing is, you know, 27 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: I can talk to Terry Malick about animation, and I 28 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: can talk to Tom mcglass, our director on Boss Baby 29 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: about Thin Red Line, you know, and in one way 30 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: or the other, it's sort of the same thing. Other 31 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: than that, you can get away with a lot more 32 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: in animation, I find, you know, you and I in 33 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: a peculiar way, we give life to something that doesn't 34 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: have life. I mean, it's it's, you know, the whole 35 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: point about animation, especially now a CG, where things have 36 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: gotten so refined and they can do such amazing things, 37 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: but the one thing they can't do, they can't really 38 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: truly breathe life in. And so ultimately that the only 39 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: real performances is the actors and the musicians. And for instance, 40 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: what we did on the Last Line King movie. You know, 41 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: he did a remake, and I said, what am I 42 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: going to do a remake? And I thought, everybody knows 43 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 1: the tunes. Everybody in the orchestra knows the tunes. All 44 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: my musicians and know the tunes. I'm going to spend 45 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: a week pretending I'm recording little cues, and in the 46 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: last two days, I'm literally going to make it about Okay, 47 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: we're going to run the movie from the beginning to 48 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: the end, and you're gonna just hold on for dear life, 49 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: and we're going to record the whole thing as a 50 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: performance because I wanted to have that, you know, the 51 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: thing that you get in a life performance, the thing 52 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: you get in a theater genius mixed with sphere and catastrophe. Well, 53 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: we've had people talk to us and they have careers 54 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: in whatever, editing or what have you. And I'm curious, 55 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: not in a relationship, let's say with Nolan, where you've 56 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: made a few films with him, or you made a 57 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: couple with Nancy and this his two boss babies and 58 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 1: so forth, but on your Maiden Voyage with Nolan. Does 59 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: he send you the script and you start to get 60 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: in conversation with him the type of score he wants 61 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: and you start to like riff little things before or 62 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: do you only really get concretized about it until you 63 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: see cut footage. Let's talk about Chris and my working method. 64 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: And I think we start off on the wrong foot 65 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: right away because he wanted me to do Batman, and 66 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: I kept saying I don't want to do Batman, and 67 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: finally he said, why don't you do Batman? I said, 68 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: I know how to be the dark Knight, but I 69 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: don't know how to be Bruce Wayne. And he said, 70 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: that's easy. Get a friend and to be the other character. 71 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: You don't have to be schizophrenic. So I asked my 72 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: friend Jameson Howard, who is you know, one of the 73 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: most elegant composers in the world, to be light and 74 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: let me be my dramatic darctness. And then I was 75 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: working on something in Los Angeles Christmas shooting in London, 76 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: and he has a way of being very persuasive. He's going, well, yes, 77 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: I got this shot of Batman standing on top of 78 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: a building, and I don't quite know how to get 79 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: him there, because I don't want to temper it. But 80 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: it's there something that you can just I mean, it 81 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be good. Just give me something that 82 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: gets him up there. And so the first time James 83 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: and I saw the movie, it had all our rotten 84 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: little demos in it. But if you go to something 85 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: like inception. I remember Chris phoning me and he's going, hey, 86 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: do you want to come down to the beach with 87 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: the kids. Is that how he puts it? Yeah, when 88 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: he needs some music for his movie, let's go down 89 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: to the beach with the kids. And I think that's great. 90 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna call Spielberg and let's 91 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: go down to the beach with the kids. Got it worked. 92 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: He realized that this idea of the different times and 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: the different dreams, it was very complicated to an audience. 94 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: And I said, you look to a musician. It's the 95 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: easiest thing, because that's what we do all the time. 96 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: You know, you have a bar and you're divided into 97 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: four quarter notes, and you can divide that time of 98 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: the four quarter notes into eight notes, etcetera. And you 99 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: just keep dividing down and and and play. You're always 100 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: playing with time. So I think at the end of 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: the day, it doesn't matter if the audience never gets 102 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: the intellectual conceit of the movie. But just think of 103 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: me like a river and the audience is on a 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: little boat, and I take you downstream with the story. 105 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's going to get a little rocky, and 106 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: sometimes it's gonna get a little boring, but you sort 107 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: of know you can trust the river to take you 108 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: on this journey and take you to the end. So 109 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: Chris loved that, and we do think very similarly. I mean, 110 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: I remember him phoning me from Iceland, so I hadn't 111 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: seen any footage, right, I just about read the script 112 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: he phoned me from. So he's explaining the scene, which 113 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: is and then you have to hit this shot, and 114 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: then this is this, and this is the most important 115 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: scene in the movie. Our lead character is basically seeing 116 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: his whole family through the years, and he's starting to 117 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: cry at a certain moment. You know, I had to 118 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: be pointing, and I finally said to Chris, Chris, I 119 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: don't think I can just do this. I don't think 120 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: I can wing it without some footage. And I remember 121 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: all these cuts in my head, and he says, our 122 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: sense of time, our sense of aesthetics seems to be 123 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: very similar. Just write it, send it to me. If 124 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't work, i'll send you the picture. Well, unfortunately 125 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: it works, I said. I found him. I said, how 126 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: how is it? He goes, well, it's within two frames, 127 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: but I can go and adjust that. So then he 128 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: finished the shooting and I'm going, okay, show me the movie. 129 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: He's going, you know, it's going really rather well. You know, 130 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: you imagining my movie and writing freely. At which point 131 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: I started to just say, in term pieces of music, 132 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: without telling him what they were for, I wouldn't write 133 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: anything on them. I just send the music. But I 134 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: very strongly, having read the script, knew what they were for. 135 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: And I was praying and hoping. There's a shot in 136 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: there where Mario Kotia is on a on a ledge 137 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: and her shoe drops just so, and I was so 138 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: hoping that this piece I sent for him was going 139 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: to end up in that spot. And then months down 140 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: the road, when I first saw it, there it was, 141 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: and he absolutely got it. So we have this language 142 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: without words, because I think what is really important with 143 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: music is that to me it's an autonomous language. I 144 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: am speaking to you in English, which obviously is not 145 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: my mother tongue, as you might detect from the horrible accent. 146 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: But if I were to speak to you in a 147 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: couple of cords, I feel unsafer ground and I feel 148 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: more articulate. So that's how Chris and I kept working. 149 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: We kept coming up with crazy you know. We did 150 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: a list, for instance, for interstella, of what other things 151 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: we haven't done, you know, and we would cross off 152 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: big drums, I did that one, big halls. Oh, we 153 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: did that one. And then Chris said, what about pipe organ? 154 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: And that became that, you know, because, as he said it, 155 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: this is a movie about space and rockets and all 156 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: that stuff. I mean, I saw the shape of the 157 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: pipe organ, and at the same time I saw the 158 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: afterburner of rockets, and I thought both are fabulous pieces 159 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: of technology. Now with Nolan, do you feel that your 160 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: task is to help them understand and help yourself understand 161 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: what they want? Have you ever had conflicts with director 162 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: where you said, I don't agree. How much truth would 163 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: you like? Well, I mean, when my rule on this 164 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: show was I don't want to ruin my career, your 165 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: your Your career can't be ruined. What I'm asking is 166 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: are you there to perform what they want or do 167 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: you consult with them? The director has to trust composer, 168 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: and ultimately the composer needs to go and buy into 169 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: the director's vision. But music is indefensible. I can write 170 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: you something and play it to you and I think 171 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: it is the greatest fucking thing. And I just answered 172 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: every question you ever had about your character, whatever, and 173 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: you don't get it and it doesn't resonate. So there's 174 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: no way I can sit there and explain to you 175 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: why you should like it, and other resonates or doesn't. 176 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: That's someone. The other thing is I like working with 177 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: directors who spend a minimum of time talking to me 178 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: about what music they want, because as soon as they 179 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: start talking to me about what music they want, my 180 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: mind goes off into that thing of going My job 181 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: is to do something that they can't even imagine. My 182 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: job is to knock their socks off. My job is 183 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: to do something that is so beyond anything that they 184 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: could do because otherwise said to it themselves. And you know, 185 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: and it makes me rather done. It makes me a 186 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: musical secretary. Do you think that someone to use a 187 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, a more celebrated example, because everyone knows the 188 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: story about Alex north composition for Space Hotessey. Do you 189 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: think that someone like Kubrick lunged in the direction of 190 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: the classical repertoire because he knew what the music was, 191 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: He didn't have to wait for somebody to write it. 192 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: There it is extant, it's real, I know, I want, 193 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, fun Carreon with the with the vienna and 194 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: this and that, just play the Blue Danube and he 195 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have to rely on anybody. Do you find that 196 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: there were some directors who they just don't want to 197 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: give that control? Well, well, it's such a sad you know. 198 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I should let you know 199 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: that Sally Kubrick was the first director that ever fired me. 200 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: What the full metal Jacket, and Vivian has started took over, 201 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: but but it became this weird, strange thing. So I 202 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: was really I mean I was maybe eighteen nineteen and 203 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: us but as soon as I was fired in other words, 204 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: because I didn't know how to do what he wanted 205 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: me to do. Because Stanny koper knew everything. He had 206 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: studied drumming with Jeane Kruper. He just wanted me to 207 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: be his musical secretary, and I'm not very good at that. 208 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: Take dictation, absolutely, take dictation. I mean I would get 209 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: these tape sent drumming with ten fingers on his tabletop 210 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: and go, well, get a drummer to do exactly that, 211 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: and you know, so that didn't work. But then once 212 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: I was officially fired, I would get these phone calls 213 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: where he would go, I think Vivian's in a bit 214 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: of trouble. Can you go up there and see if 215 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: she's all right? Oh, he'd go, what do you think 216 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: of Dolby Stereo? I'm eighteen years old, you know, I 217 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm talking to Stanley Cooper. How did 218 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: you end up in? I mean, you're eighteen years old. 219 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: How does an eighteen year old Hans Zimmer wind up 220 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: within fifty miles of Stanley Cooper? How did that happen? 221 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: Anton first, his designer, who knew me. They were shooting 222 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: for Metal Jacket in the docklands of London, and I 223 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: knew Vivian, who then took over, and so I was 224 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: really helping Vivian, and soon and then years later I 225 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: ran into Vivian and I was just on my way 226 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: to London. She said, oh, we really should go and 227 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: see that. I'm going. Why would I see if he 228 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: goes no, no, no. He's always talking about you. Whenever 229 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: movie comes on television that you did, He's always saying 230 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: I found him. I was the first one who gets. 231 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: He forgets the other part. But you know, it's really 232 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: busy and I had to go down to Australia from London, 233 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: so I didn't go and see him because I thought 234 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: that Stanley Kubrick is beyond He's immortal, you know, because 235 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: he was Stanley Kubrid. Sure. And I get to Australia, 236 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: I get to Sydney and the guy who's picking me 237 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: up from the airport coincidentally was a chap who who 238 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: had met on Full Metal Tracket and he's got a 239 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: really sad face. And I realized that, you know, Stanley 240 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: had died, which was inconceivable to nature. And I learned, 241 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: don't say no. If somebody says, hey, come on over, interesting, 242 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: you come over. And I learned a lot from him. 243 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: I learned vast thanks for that. You know, this is 244 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: music from the film Chappie. Han Zimmer discovered his musical 245 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: talent very early in life. Another one of our guests 246 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: who took music seriously at a very young age is 247 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: classical pianist Long Long. He was a musical prodigy, winning 248 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: his first competition when he was five. Long Long and 249 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: I spoke before a live audience in New York City 250 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen. He talked about his father's skepticism 251 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: of playing in competitions. He discouraged me to do competitions 252 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, did he say why? Yeah? 253 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: He said, then you're too crazy about being number one 254 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: and you're not really focus on what you should be, 255 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, learning the repertoire and too. He said, do 256 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: you want to become a great musician or you want 257 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: to just win? And I said, oh, I said, is 258 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: that not the same? I said, well, what was the difference? 259 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: I said, If I don't win a prize, how I'm 260 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: going to become a great musician. Here the rest of 261 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: my conversation with celebrated pianist Long Long that here's the 262 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: thing dot org. After the break, Hans Zimmer talks about 263 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: how he went from playing dingy clubs around England and 264 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: making coffee for composer Stanley Myers to realizing what he 265 00:15:47,200 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: wanted to do for the rest of his life. If 266 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure 267 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: to follow Here's the Thing on the I Heart radio app, 268 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alec 269 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. This piece 270 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: is from the film Twelve Years a Slave. Hans Zimmer 271 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: was born in Frankfurt, Germany. He's largely self taught, and 272 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: even as a child, understood a strong connection between music 273 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: and mood. But my father died when I was six 274 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: and I already played the piano. I enjoyed playing the piano, 275 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: but my father died and I realized the only thing 276 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: that made my mother happy, that put a smile on 277 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: her face was when I played the piano. So I 278 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: sort of took on that burden, which then, of course 279 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: backfired because at school I was appalling and everything other 280 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: than playing music. I got thrown out of nine schools. 281 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: Ultimately I ended up in school in England, fabulous school 282 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: called Heartwood House. You know, it was a choice to 283 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: go back to Germany or hang out in Swinging London. 284 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: So by the time of eighteen, I was in the 285 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: back of a Ford transit van going up and down 286 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: the end one playing every working men's club and every 287 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: citty pub. That's the eighties. It was crazy, it was amazing. 288 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: There was a company called Working Title that they were 289 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: making music videos and one day channel for new television 290 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: station came about and Working Title decided, since we don't 291 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: know how to make movies, that's okay, they don't really 292 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: know that, but we'll do something called My Beautiful Laundrette, 293 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: which was a young Daniel day Lewis, and it was 294 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: an extra honory anti Thatcher right, gay Cross everything, you know, 295 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: amazingly sort of just mind blowing when nobody saw it coming. 296 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: And Daniel kisses this Indian boy and you could feel 297 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: the jaws of the audience hitting the floor. And I 298 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: loved it. So Kubrick and that introduction through full Metal. 299 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: When you're eighteen years old, had you worked on any 300 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: films who you've been close to any film sets or 301 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: studios before that? Yes? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I had 302 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: a mentor Stanley Meyers that the man who wrote the 303 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: music for The Deer Hunter a brilliant man. And so 304 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: Stanley had this coffee machine. He loved his Italian espresso. 305 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: He had bought an unbelievably complicated coffee machine, and so 306 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: my job was to work the coffee machine and Stanley 307 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: would showed me how to write for orchestra. And the 308 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: first day was Stanley Meyers and Nicholas Rogue sitting there 309 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: looking at a scene. In the morning, I was making 310 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: coffee and they're both going, we have no idea what 311 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: to do. And by the evening they had come up 312 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: with a mind blowing, beautiful solution, musical solution. And I 313 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: realized that this idea of that you have nothing and 314 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: that you make something out of nothing, and that it's 315 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: just a conversation and you just you just breathed the 316 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,239 Speaker 1: picture in and turn it into notes. That was a 317 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: fantastic adventure. And then Standing I had a little studio, 318 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: and Standing was very good friends with the producer Jeremy Thomas, 319 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: who phoned me up one day and said, would I 320 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: mind coming in on Saturday because he had a Reti 321 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Sakamotive and Bernardo better Lucci coming in to have a 322 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: look at what we act had done on the Last Emperor, 323 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: and would I just go and round the tape machines 324 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: for them. So they piled into my little studio, and 325 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: it turned out that there was a found lack of 326 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: communication and Bato Lucci had re cut the Last Emperor 327 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: as in a flashback, while Sakamoto had scored the previous version, 328 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: which was all in chronological order. And the other thing 329 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: was Sako Moto's idea was that he was going to 330 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: play Bernardo the stuff half his friend could recorded at 331 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: Abbey Road, and he was gone because he had him 332 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: tour starting the following day, and so nothing fit. So 333 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: David Byrne from the Talking Heads was the other composer, 334 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: and Kong Su, who was a Chinese composer but had 335 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: studied in Berlin, was another composer on it. So the 336 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: Chinese composer could only speak German, so I was useful 337 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: in this case. And Jeremy said, can you just go 338 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: up to Appy Roden just sort of sort this out, 339 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: you know, we called the orchestra, and I had no 340 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: idea what four m you know, fifty one whatever something. 341 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: There was a real four was not a real too, 342 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: but I never heard and I didn't even know what 343 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: scene it was supposed to go. And Bernardo would go, 344 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: why is it getting quiet in the middle of a shot, 345 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: and I'm like, tap down things, furiously coming up with 346 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: excuses to sort of not put the blame on reality Sacermoto. 347 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: It really wasn't his fault. So that was really my 348 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: other introduction. Yeah, and it was like these people are crazy, 349 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: these people are genuinely crazy and that. And there was 350 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: one day where Bernar I was working out at Pinewood 351 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: and there was something had gotten and things kept getting lost, 352 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: are things kept not happening or whatever? And he felt 353 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: me up with most of you because where are the 354 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: Chinese death belts. I didn't know that we're going to 355 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: be Chinese less belt, nor did I even know that 356 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: there is such a thing as Chinese death bells. So 357 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: I said, well, okay, I'm really sorry. I'll come right 358 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: over with that Chinese death bells. So I made up 359 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: something on the synthesizer because I thought if I don't 360 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: know what they sound like, he won't know what they 361 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: sound like. And I came over and as I got 362 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: to Pinewood, Bernado's walking up and down at the gates 363 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: to the studio and he's like he's got his hands 364 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: behind his back, and I get out of the column saying, look, 365 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. It wasn't my fault, by the way, 366 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: It really wasn't, you know. But I wasn't gonna blame anybody. 367 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: It just went it. I'll do it, and Bernano went, look, 368 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. I shouted at you, and he handed 369 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: me a box of chocolates and he said, look, even 370 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: though I'm the director and I'm paying you, I realized 371 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: that the seconds of your life are going by and 372 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: I should be more gracious. That taught me something. I mean, 373 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: the more I worked within the film business at these 374 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: early days, and mostly it was in Soho and mostly 375 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: like Working Title, all our cutting rooms were either above 376 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: a strip club or a pawn shop, and you know, 377 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: and I would run up the stairs with my little 378 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: piece of music and singer up to the picture and 379 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 1: hold my breath because if the director didn't like it. 380 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: But at the same time I realized it was all entertainment, 381 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: and should it go wrong upstairs, maybe I could get 382 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: a job downstairs at the pond, you know, or the 383 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: strip club for that matter, all the strip club for 384 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: that matter. Absolutely. And then Working Title offered me, like 385 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: the twentie movie or something like this, that it was 386 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: about the anti apartheit movement in South Africa called a 387 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: world apart beauty Beautiful film, Beautiful film. Chris Mingers. So 388 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: We're sitting at the Groucho Club and I'm I'm getting 389 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: so what's the budget? And Tim Bevan says, we're not 390 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: telling you what the budget is. Your wife is pregnant, 391 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: and we know what you do. You take all the 392 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: money that you're supposed to go and take home with 393 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: you and you just spend it on making the movie 394 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: sound good. So we're not telling you what the budget 395 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: is this time. So you go and do the movie 396 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: and it's going to be all right. So I did 397 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: the movie and it turned out my daughter was born 398 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: on the first day of working in the film, and 399 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: they opened an account in her name and put the 400 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: money in there. So, you know, whatever you say about 401 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: the death things about filmmaking, the you know, how synature 402 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: do you want to be? There are people who are 403 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: genuinely have a hard gentleman, gentlemen. You know. The other 404 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: thing which I think is so vital is Hollywood, with 405 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: all its cheapness and vulgarity, what have you. It's the 406 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: last place on earth that commissions orchestral music on a 407 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: daily basis. And if we don't have that, the orchestras 408 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: will just die. At what point were you immerged in 409 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: the classic Bernard Herman era of film scoring. Did you 410 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: listen to a lot of film scores? And no, no, 411 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: not at all. I come from one of those snobby 412 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: European families where we went to the opera once a 413 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: week and we had no television because television was considered 414 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: the end of culture as we know it. And I 415 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: remember I snuck into the little local cinema where they 416 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: were playing Once upon a Time in the West, and 417 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: it was just like Ennio Morriconi, Sergio Leone those shots, 418 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: and I'm going, that's it, that's it, That's what I 419 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: want to do, and there was nothing that could stop 420 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: me from doing this. Did you feel at any point 421 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: that you needed to study film itself in order to 422 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: do your job better. No. I felt I needed to 423 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: study mythology. I needed to study fairy tales. I needed 424 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: to study psychology. I needed to read like crazy, and 425 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: I needed to sit down and talk to as many 426 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: d piece as I possibly could, because if I was 427 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: the years, they were the eyes. I was the guy 428 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: who would never go home. I was always the kid 429 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: who was still hanging around in the cutting room, you know, 430 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: just badgering the editor, going well, why why are you 431 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: doing that? Why are you doing this cut? And why? 432 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: And how does this work? And you know, talking to 433 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: the DP what colors are you going to use? What 434 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: the tone of this film? Tell me what the color 435 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: palette is going to be? Like knowing as we do 436 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: now that you know, I might watch The Crown in 437 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: bed on my computer and my wife is asleep next 438 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: to me, and then if it's Gladiator, you think, let's 439 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: just blow the fucking roof off the theater and let's 440 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: just blow it out. You know, that's forty ft why 441 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: twenty ft high? Is there a difference between scoring for 442 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: TV and for film? Not? That should be? That should be, 443 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: But I don't make a difference. I just I just 444 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: feel there's a right path if somebody has a compelling story. 445 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: If Peter Martin comes to me and he goes, I've 446 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: given up on doing movies. I want to do The Crown. 447 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: You take that very serious. And Peter's vision as vast 448 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: and what a juggernaut that's been. Oh my god, absolutely, 449 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: I love Peter. I've known him, I've known Peter. I 450 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: want to say, I've known Peter all my life. Peter 451 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: and I speak to German. He speaks better German than 452 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: I do. You know, we come from that working title 453 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: camp European cinema. It's really different. I mean I came 454 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: to Hollywood expecting it to be technologically far more advanced 455 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: than Europe, and I expected it to be far more collaborative. 456 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: And it wasn't. The composer worked alone, and he had 457 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: a ghost writer who would never get a credit. You know, 458 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: It's like an army of ghostwriters who never saw their 459 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: names up in light. And I thought, how that's poor 460 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: bus is going to get their career. You know. Stanley 461 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: Myers my mentor. I mean he gave me credits straight away. 462 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't a big deal and we would 463 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: all be in the room together. So I learned from 464 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: Stephen Fierce, I learned from Nick Work, I learned from 465 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: John's Lessenger. I learned from Terry Mallock. You did Pacific Heights. 466 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: We did Pacific Heights. I have auditioned for that movie. 467 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: I remember I was involved. And he did a movie 468 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: The Believers, Yes that Marty Sheen did, and I was 469 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: I was going to do that movie Allen Barkin and 470 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: I think we're pretty close to getting those jobs, and 471 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: then the casting director cut our throats and get rid 472 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: of us because they felt we were too young. I remember, 473 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: I was just overwhelmed with a passion to work with Sleshinger. 474 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: What was he like? Same with me? Any director who 475 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: in the middle of scoring says, I'm so sorry, but 476 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: I have to take a few days off because I'm 477 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: directing an opera and sales books. Okay with me? Do 478 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It's like at the end 479 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: of all the scoring sessions he made a list of 480 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 1: all the quotes of classical music I'd used, which was 481 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: it was great, it was a game. But again, knowing 482 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: that writing music and performing music, what happened when you 483 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: go and record it and you here and you go 484 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: it's not right. Well, one of the things is to 485 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: be absolutely clear we are making a recording. We're not 486 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: doing a concert. You don't have the free say of 487 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: a life performance going on. So I I try to 488 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: have a bit of that going on. For instance, I 489 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: tell directors before I start working with them, and they 490 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: all get it. I will not make a change during 491 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: the scoring session in front of the orchestra. We'll take 492 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: it off the stands, I'll go home. I'll rewrite it 493 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: whatever you want, but I will not do it in 494 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: front of the orchestra, because when the orchestra is playing, 495 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: it's about a performance, and we don't want to stop, 496 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: and we don't want to bore them, and we certainly 497 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: don't want to show any insecurity. The lion taming and 498 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: film composing seem to have a close link. You know, 499 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: both can kill you. I mean, the director will eat 500 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: your life. And if it's not the directors, there's there's 501 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of guys in the brass section who 502 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: are just looking at you, going, okay, kid, let's see 503 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: what happens. Let's see you had some of that early on. Yeah, absolutely, 504 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: and now we're fine. Now. I actually had one of 505 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: the greatest compliments recently. There's a percussionist in London who's 506 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: played on everything from you know, Star Wars plus all 507 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: the classics, and I saw him the other day and 508 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: he goes hamps. We were worried about you when you 509 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: went to Hollywood because we thought you're just going to 510 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: become one of those prats. But you know something, you 511 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: came back You're still one of us. You're still a 512 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: complete music bastard, and we love you for that. So 513 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: I thought that was like the best compliment I could have, 514 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: and it meant whatever we were doing was going to 515 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: be okay because I was still part of them. Now, 516 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: when you see footage, does a performance every motivate you? Really? 517 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: What's an example of our performance by an actor in 518 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: a film you did? They really helped lift you to 519 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: the level you wanted to go In terms of your score, 520 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson in as good as it gets. Really, I 521 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. I was really struggling, and 522 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: finally I said to Jim Brook's, Jim, what are you 523 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: doing at the weekend? Do you mind sitting on my 524 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,239 Speaker 1: couch and let me just look at Jack. Look at 525 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: what he's doing. I mean, there's a history. Before Jack 526 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: started filming the movie, I was at his how going 527 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: over like he's going to play the piano. He didn't 528 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: want to play the piano. I'm going it's easy. I 529 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: can go and replace anything that's wrong. No, Jack didn't 530 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: want to play the piano, didn't more to play the piano. 531 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: I think he just wanted to talk to him a bit. 532 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: But so Jim sitting there and we just started to 533 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: work out together what this character would be like. It's 534 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: the way his legs moved. It's just just a little 535 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: something in the shoulder. It's never something he says. It's 536 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: body language. It's a ballet, and literally it was. It 537 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: was two days of just experimenting. Jim sitting there and 538 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: we worked the whole thing out. And so you know, 539 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: I totally understood what Jack was trying to do. Helen Hunt. 540 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: She wanted to ask you for I love that film. 541 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: He did too. He did too, He did too. And 542 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: what I love is there's an almost pugilistic quality too 543 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: when he says his lines the woman that the legendary 544 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: line when he's at the elevator and the woman says, 545 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: how do you write those female? You write those women 546 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: so well? I I think of a man and I 547 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: take away reason and accountability right, one of the greatest 548 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: lines in Hollywood history. There's another bit in it at 549 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: the end when he doesn't know how to go and 550 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: see the Hell and Hunt character, and Greg Canea says 551 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: to him, but you already have an advantage, You already 552 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: prepared to humiliate yourself and in a funny way. I've 553 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: made that sort of my litmotif of how I'm going 554 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: to go and play a piece of music to a 555 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: director or anybody for that matter. I'm sure, I'm sure 556 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: that these examples have been There might be none or 557 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: certainly few and far between. But if you ever just 558 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: pushed out your best effort and you thought I can't 559 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: save this movie, yes, and and being wrong at the 560 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: same time, thinking this is terrible, and then the audience 561 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: loved it, you know, don't try to predict anything. That's 562 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: a very good point, you know, to their own self. 563 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: Be true. I mean, look, you and I we did 564 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: a movie. There's a line and girl and boy met 565 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: forty five minutes ago in the story and they're sitting 566 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: next to each other and she says to him, if 567 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: I have one more night to live, I want to 568 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: spend it with you. And I said to Michael. By Michael, 569 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: you gotta get rid of that line. I learned from 570 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: Bridley Scott. Bridley Scott always would say sentimentality, that's unearned emotion. 571 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, yeah, don't worry, I'll get rid 572 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: of it. He never got rid of it. It's the 573 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: favorite line in the movie by teenage girls. God, Hans Zimmer, 574 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: this is to every captive soul from the motion picture 575 00:33:34,360 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: Hannibal m Yeah, when we return. Hans Zimmer talks about 576 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: how an invitation from musician Pharrell Williams helped him overcome 577 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: stage fright. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing. 578 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: In two thousand sixteen, Hans Zimmer did something he hadn't 579 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: done in decades, played in front of an audience. The 580 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: result was Hans Zimmer Live and arena style concert series, 581 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: which wouldn't have happened with encouragement from his friends. There 582 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: was like a cabal ganging up on me. There was 583 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: Farrell Williams, Jolly mar and my friend Anne Marie Simpson, 584 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: great violinist, and they're all sitting here and they're going 585 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: you know, and you can't hide behind the screen for 586 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: the rest of your life. Sometimes it is your duty 587 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: to look an audience in the eye, especially after you've 588 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: done so much. I'm gonna a terrible idea. I think 589 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: I should just stay in this room. I mean, And 590 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: so this goes on and I keep saying no, and 591 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: they get up and they're walking out of my room, 592 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: and right at the end, Farrell turns around and he says, Hey, 593 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to play the Grammys. Do you want to 594 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: play guitar for me? And I thought only an idiot 595 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: would say no. So it was his show. The Grammys 596 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: were his show. I'm playing guitar. Through the whole performance, 597 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: he kept his eyes on me. He just to make 598 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: sure that I was okay, that was safe, which was 599 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: such an act of kindness, and I was going, Oh, 600 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: it's not so bad. This is actually good fun. So 601 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 1: I phoned. I thought, my friend Harvey Goldsmith, who promoted 602 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: the original Live Aid and everything else. I mean, he 603 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: brought Springsteen to to England, etcetera. And I was saying, 604 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: how if I did a concert, I mean, do you 605 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: think anybody would come? Yeah? I think so. So in 606 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: fourteen we did two nights in London and a rock 607 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: and roll venue, and I thought it was important. Number one, 608 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: it was important to be a rock and roll venue, 609 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: and it would be fun to pon orchestra into it, 610 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: or we can go more extreme, because then we went 611 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: and did Cotella and I thought, oh, we have to 612 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: do Cotella because we've got to have an orchestra in 613 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: the middle of the desert and acquire. And secondly, I 614 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: want to change the way people perceive orchestras and choirs 615 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: because I can understand that going to a classical concert, 616 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: unless it's an amazing conductor, seeing a guy with his 617 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: back to you all night while there's a whole bunch 618 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: of guys and girls reading the paper is like a 619 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: bad marriage on a Sunday morning. So I said to 620 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: the orchestra, if I get rid of the conductor, I mean, 621 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: we have enough technology, we can go and show things 622 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: up on the conducting, up on the screen. You know, 623 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be in the sideline. You will 624 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: have an autonomous sideline to the audience. Will that work? 625 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: And they said, yeah, absolutely, we'll have We'll have a 626 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: go at it, and that basically became the basis of 627 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: that tour and the idea of being surrounded by not 628 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: only great orchestral players, but great rock and roll players, 629 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: because great musicians are great musicians. You either move me 630 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: or you don't move me. You know, it's interesting how 631 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: when you write music. I want to tee this up 632 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: with the story which was I was haunted by the 633 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: sequence in Cold Blood where Robert Blake is watching Scott 634 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: Wilson have sex with the prostitute, and he's sitting on 635 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: the bed, and then that transforms into his mother with 636 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: a job on, and the father comes in, and it's 637 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: this horribly painful, traumatic thing for the Robert Blake character. 638 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: And he's sitting there with tears running down his eyes 639 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: and the rain behind him in the window, running down 640 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: the window, and they played this Mexican ballot and I 641 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: drove myself to the brink of insanity trying to find 642 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: out what the name of the song was, who the 643 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: singer was, and of course who wrote it. And I 644 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: couldn't take it anymore. So you know, when you're with 645 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: C A A as an agency, they can get you 646 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: on the phone with anybody. So the next thing you know, 647 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with Quincy. I said, now this 648 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: song in this thing? He said, yeah, yeah, Man, Nina 649 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: the song of Nina Baby. That's the name is sell Nina. 650 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: And and and I go who wrote the song? And 651 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: suppose he goes, I wrote a baby. I wrote it. 652 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: What you're talking about? Man? I wrote the song like 653 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: I write all the songs. Did you feel that there 654 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: were parts of your career we want to learn to 655 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: write music? You thought you couldn't write whether you know, 656 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: from the culture, Yeah, I mean absolutely. I mean I 657 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: had to from Penny Marshall. When she comes to me 658 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: and she goes, forties girls baseball leader. Though I'm going 659 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: I know nothing about being a girl. I know nothing 660 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: about the forties. I don't know anything about jazz, you know, 661 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: And she goes, don't worry about it, just do it, 662 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: and oh yeah, And I say I know nothing about baseball. 663 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: She goes, when they hit it, that's good. You know. 664 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: That was basically my brief. It took me a while 665 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: to figure out how I could solve this because I 666 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,479 Speaker 1: really don't know anything about jazz. You felt, you didn't 667 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: know anything about jazz. You want a jazz fan, yes, 668 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: But I didn't know how to do it, you know. 669 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: And I thought, well, hang on, everybody's got like some 670 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: crazy uncle that when drunk will play boogie boogie on 671 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: the piano. So I thought, well, I can be that 672 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: guy playing boogie boogie and the piano and just orchestrated 673 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: and shove it in front of a bunch of very 674 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: good players. So that's how that score came about. Here's 675 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: the thing. Penny was a huge influence because she loved 676 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: having a chat, especially between the hours of three am 677 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: and seven and the more I had some chats with Penny. Okay, 678 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,320 Speaker 1: so so since I was one of the few Parsan session, 679 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: therefore I was up and I would use those charts. 680 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: I remember one Penny, how do you make a good movie? 681 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: Because that's easy. All you have to do is protect 682 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: your star. And by that I don't mean the actor, 683 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: I mean your main character. Don't let him say anything 684 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: that's out of character coming off his mask, don't let 685 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: him wear anything that's not in character, don't have his 686 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: hair be stupid. Because when you know what your main 687 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: character is, then the rest of the story will group 688 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: around it. And I thought that makes perfect sense. Now, 689 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: what about with ron Howard? You mean, the Frost Nixon 690 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: thing is obviously a very dry, very powdery kind of 691 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: a drama, you know, I mean, oh man, that was 692 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: a tough I mean, o'shean and Frank, I mean, Frank 693 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: is just such a wonderful malvolio esque, you know, kind 694 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: of presence and everything he does it just drips with 695 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: a kind of danger. You know, what did Ronnie tell 696 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: you he wanted for that film? We all loved the 697 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: play and you know that's back to Peter Martin in 698 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: the Crown. I mean, that's a Peter Martin thing. So 699 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: ostensibly we had a meeting every day for two weeks 700 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: before he went outituding to talk about the songs, to 701 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: make the songs to be the right thing for the era. 702 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: And I don't think we actually got any songs in it. 703 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: You know, I would go, well, if you give me 704 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: this close up, I can give you this piece of music, 705 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: I can do something like this, and la la la la. 706 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: You know. So for two weeks we we sort of 707 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 1: worked out camera moves and we worked out how to 708 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: transform a play into a movie. Now. One of the 709 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: junctures in which I intersected with your movie was a 710 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: documentary series called Evidence of Revision. It's considered the citizen 711 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: pane of JFK conspiracy films. It's nine hours long, divided 712 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: into five parts. I'm listening to this and this music 713 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: comes on and I'm going, oh man, this music is 714 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: so fucking beautiful and it's the last Samurai. Now, he 715 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: sampled a couple of your pieces for this thing, Hannibal. 716 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: He plays to every captive soul, oh yes, and oh 717 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: my god, you just the tears start rolling down your face. 718 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: There's a big story involved for piece why it's worth 719 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: making movies. To me, Ridley had just come back from Florence, 720 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: I think, to finished shooting the movie at Sunday night, 721 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock in the evening at Fox in the cutting room, 722 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: and it's Ridley, it's Pietro Scarlia, the editor, and me 723 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,879 Speaker 1: and the picture on the abbott is parked on a 724 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: tear running down Clary Style Link's face and I say 725 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,919 Speaker 1: to him, to both of them, I say, well, she's 726 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: crying because she's in love with him and she has 727 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: to betray him now, and really goes no, no, no no, 728 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,800 Speaker 1: it's a tear of disgust. It's disgusted at this monster 729 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: when he has her up against the refrigerator. Yeah, exactly, 730 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: exactly right. So this goes on, so so it gets 731 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: more and more heated at this conversation, and finally we're 732 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: standing and three grown men at eleven o'clock at nine 733 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: on a Sunday are shouting at each other about the 734 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: meaning of a tear on a woman's face. And I 735 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: had one of those we had moments, you know, where 736 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: the camera pulls back and I see us all. I thought, 737 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: what a great ful job we are discussing Julia, and 738 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm going, this is the most important thing to us 739 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: at this moment. And that's what this piece is about. 740 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: Because I said, Okay, Retty, this is what I'm gonna do. 741 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to write the whole score is going to 742 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: be a romantic comedy. And he's okay, fine, all right 743 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: if you can pull that off. Five romantic comedy. So 744 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,240 Speaker 1: that is my big love theme. What's the movie of yours? 745 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: You watch when you sit there when it's screens and 746 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: you go, you know, it's not that bad. Actually it's 747 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,760 Speaker 1: pretty good. It really does work. Yeah, I know I'm Buyingary. 748 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: It's ship. It's not ship. I think they could all 749 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: do with a bit of a do over and implease, 750 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: But I tell you the opening to the Lion King, 751 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: I mean it was really important to me. I wanted 752 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: that African voice. My friend Lebo, who had discovered at 753 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: a car wash he was a political refugee, he was 754 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: working at a car wash. I said, come and just 755 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: come and do this thing. And you know, like that, 756 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 1: like within the first notes, you know you're now not 757 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 1: in Kansas anymore. What advice do you have for people 758 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: who you're working with who are young people who want 759 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: to because I'm assuming that actors can come and go. 760 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: They have their healthy on period, writers, directors, But it 761 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: seems like compos users, when you hit it, you can 762 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: stay there for a very long time. Your career has 763 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: been a very long time now and you've stayed at 764 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: the top of this business for a very long time. 765 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: What advice do you have for people who want to 766 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 1: get into that part of the business? Just say yes, 767 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, like when Penny Marshall says, do you not 768 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: do a movie about baseball and swing? Yes? I know 769 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: nothing about it. Just be honest, I know nothing about it, 770 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: but sounds interesting, right, you know, old Yes. I remember 771 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: being on the phone with Ron just out of courtesy 772 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: right at the end. I thought I should say, well, 773 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: what are you working on? And he said the Da 774 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: Vinci Code, and I'm going, oh my god, it's like 775 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 1: run on monologue. It's totally uncinematic. How can you, I mean, 776 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: how are you gonna do that? And it's a phenomena. 777 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: How are you going to deal with the phenomena? And 778 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, I know, And ten minutes later my 779 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: agent goes, what did you say to Ron always, I'm sorry. 780 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: I know he's setting off on this journey and I 781 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: just probably really, like, you know, made it even worse 782 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: for him. He goes, O, no, no, he wants you 783 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: to do the film. He wants you to solve it 784 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: for him, you know. And it gave me a year 785 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: of being able to immerse myself in art and in 786 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: literature and to hang out at the Louver at night. 787 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: This is why people say to me, why am I 788 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: on the board of the Philharmonic? I said, the movies 789 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: often disappoint me, The theater sometimes disappoint me. The symphony 790 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: never disappoints me. Right when now I go see the 791 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,240 Speaker 1: New York Philharmonic play, I'm never disappointed. Absolutely your music. 792 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: Is there a joint ownership of that movie and the 793 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: publishing rights and so forth for the soundtrack, album and 794 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: so forth. Do you have some control or did the studio? 795 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: Is it a buy out and they own it? They 796 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 1: own it. But there's a law that says you are 797 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,359 Speaker 1: allowed to perform anything you want to perform, right, so 798 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 1: I think it would be keenous to not be able 799 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: to own my life. Wow, you know, because that's really 800 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: what it is. Isn't it. I mean, you know that 801 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: thing Bernardo said to me. You know, as the seconds 802 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: of life are taking away, we are creating these things. 803 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: You know. Manon an actor turned to me once. He 804 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,240 Speaker 1: said to me, you're gonna go back to your trailer, 805 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: I said, He goes, Why do you go to your trailer? 806 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,439 Speaker 1: He said, the sets where you want to be even 807 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: when you're not shooting, he said, pull up a chair, 808 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: he goes. Just be a part of it, absolutely, just 809 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: watch them shoot. And as I've gotten older, when I 810 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: read a script, I say to myself, could I stay 811 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,839 Speaker 1: on the set during the entire shooting process of this 812 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 1: movie and just be a witness and watch them do 813 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: this movie? Is do? I love it that much? And 814 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: that's become a metric for me. Actually, and I spend 815 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,759 Speaker 1: far more time on the set now than I used to. 816 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,760 Speaker 1: I never go to my trailer anymore. It's too boring. 817 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: I think my whole career is based on I would 818 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: always hang around and be the guy asking the stupid questions. 819 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: You know, not be afraid. Why are you doing it 820 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: like that? You know, tell me explain this part to 821 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: me or whatever. You know, everything informs everything, but you 822 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: nailed it when you said this is our lives. We 823 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: spent our lives doing this. It is our lives. And 824 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: that's what Farrell and Johnny Mark were so right about 825 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: that I should stop hiding and then I should do 826 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,839 Speaker 1: things in real time, be on a stage. If I'm 827 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: going to have a platfall, Yes, if I go hello 828 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: Oslo in Stockholm, they will forgive me. Let me just 829 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: finish by saying this as you're scoring the sequel to 830 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: Boce Baby, please make me look funny, made me look smart, 831 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: made me look powerful. Okay, when you're writing the music, 832 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: just have that in mind. If you don't mind made 833 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: me look powerful. We have not only have we fulfilled 834 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: that brief but you know you getting away with that line, Um, 835 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: I have a beautiful voice. I mean just that, and 836 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: pausing just to have your voice just let it lay 837 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: there and let them all be and thrilled. Well, listen, 838 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: thank you. You're one of the greats man. I mean, 839 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: your movie scores are just I mean, these people that 840 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: you work with, they're lucky to have you. Boy, what 841 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: a difference you make. It has been a pleasure. Composer 842 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 1: Hans Zimmer. This is from the motion picture The Last Samurai. 843 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing from 844 00:49:25,320 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio M