Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am
Speaker 1: Matt's and that's right. The day has come. It is
Speaker 1: now time for Joel's money origin story. That's right, buddy.
Speaker 1: Today on the show, it's all about me time. Hooray. No,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking forward to a chat and and kind
Speaker 1: of diving into some of my money backstory. You got
Speaker 1: to tackle yours last week and it was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. I learned a little bit, I hope our
Speaker 1: listeners learned a lot. And yeah, this week it's my
Speaker 1: turn in the hot seat. Does everything feel backwards because
Speaker 1: I kind of announced the actual title of this episode.
Speaker 1: You brought us back from the break with the music
Speaker 1: left his right and up is down exactly, which makes
Speaker 1: me think of those bicycles were like they're engineered so
Speaker 1: that if you steer left, it actually goes right. Have
Speaker 1: you seen these it's mind cluster where like you literally
Speaker 1: can't write it and it takes I don't know, like
Speaker 1: like tons of practice. I think it would take a
Speaker 1: long time to retrain your brain exactly, because what you've
Speaker 1: been doing something for so long, it's it feels really awkward.
Speaker 1: Sometimes just a small thing like who introduces the podcast episode. Yes,
Speaker 1: but before we get to my money story, and yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot I think we're gonna cover. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really it's up to you, so we'll
Speaker 1: see where it goes. But I wanted to mention one
Speaker 1: thing quickly that one of my friends, his name is Brennan.
Speaker 1: He goes by the Moniker budget dog, Instagram and Twitter. Yeah. Literally,
Speaker 1: I asked him how how he got that name, and
Speaker 1: he was like sitting there with his dog while he
Speaker 1: came up with it. So it just like really was
Speaker 1: like budgets exactly. So he's a he's a good dude
Speaker 1: and he's doing a lot of great work with a
Speaker 1: d A W G. Sadly, no, he did not, you know,
Speaker 1: that's how it goes. But he mentioned the other day
Speaker 1: on Twitter and I've not heard of this company before,
Speaker 1: a company to help you roll over your old four
Speaker 1: oh one k and it's called Capitalize. And I looked
Speaker 1: into this because I was like, all right, Branda knows
Speaker 1: what he's talking about. What is this thing? And it
Speaker 1: is this cool? It's actually Capitalized was named one of
Speaker 1: times top and mentions one and it is this site
Speaker 1: where you get to go roll over your four oh
Speaker 1: one K for free into an IRA. And there are
Speaker 1: a whole lot of reasons to do this, Like we
Speaker 1: could get into all the nuance. We're not going to
Speaker 1: because that's not what this episode is about, but we'll
Speaker 1: link to it in the show notes. And it's just
Speaker 1: one of those cools. Yeah, if you have an old
Speaker 1: retirement accounts sitting somewhere else and you want to move
Speaker 1: it to a place with lower fees and better fund options,
Speaker 1: a place I Capitalized is gonna help you do that.
Speaker 1: They're gonna handle the paperwork, which is like, for me,
Speaker 1: the most annoying part usually, And so yeah, it just
Speaker 1: it seems like this cool new service, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to mention it. Will will again put a link to
Speaker 1: the show notes. And yeah, if you if you're one
Speaker 1: of those people who's like dreading doing the annoying intricacies
Speaker 1: of first I'll find it's something as dorky as you know,
Speaker 1: rolling an account over from a four one K into
Speaker 1: a new I RA technical, yes, yeah, but ultimately not
Speaker 1: that hard. But Capitalized makes it even even. Also first
Speaker 1: rule problems, right, like are you over here Joe complaining
Speaker 1: that you've got too many four own ks and previous
Speaker 1: employers that you have to keep up with. Oh what
Speaker 1: a hard life that is from somebody who's never had
Speaker 1: a four week Right, But we did say simplification is
Speaker 1: a huge part of making personal finances better for people.
Speaker 1: And if this helps you simplify things, combine everything into
Speaker 1: accounts with fewer companies and and and also reduce you
Speaker 1: can get it that drag of fees at the same time,
Speaker 1: Like it's well your time. If you're with a provider who, yeah,
Speaker 1: does not give you the best investing options, you know,
Speaker 1: I will say if you are able to maintain those
Speaker 1: accounts and if the investing options are equivalent or similar
Speaker 1: across the board, there's there's no magic to combining all
Speaker 1: your accounts into a single giant account. Right, You're gonna
Speaker 1: earn the same types of returns. Uh, If you've got
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars that's spread across three accounts, the
Speaker 1: same returns that you'd see if all of that money
Speaker 1: was just in a singular account. But like you said,
Speaker 1: it's more of like a mental thing. And if that
Speaker 1: helps you as an individual, then go for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as long as they're in the same fun choices right,
Speaker 1: uh for sure, So yeah, we'll link to it in
Speaker 1: the show notes. But Matt Let's mentioned the beer that
Speaker 1: we're having on this episode. We're drinking a beer called
Speaker 1: Woodland Pursuit. It's a New England I p a from
Speaker 1: the folks at Humble Forager and I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: drinking this one while we share my money origin story tonight. Right,
Speaker 1: and I picked this one out especially for you, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about why. I guess at the end of
Speaker 1: the episode. Sounds good. Well, like last Wednesday's episode, it is, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's time for your listeners to really get to know
Speaker 1: us on a deeper level. Last week, yeah, you got
Speaker 1: to hear my money story and the experiences that impacted
Speaker 1: how it is that I view money. And now it's
Speaker 1: Joel's turn, pailing from the Pacific Northwest, weighing in a
Speaker 1: like a h eighty pounds maybe okay any nine? Also
Speaker 1: the very you're the tallest half Norwegian, but yeah, you
Speaker 1: were raised here in the South. My best friend, Joel,
Speaker 1: ours guard. He uh might might have been the cheapest
Speaker 1: guy I've ever met, which is why I think we
Speaker 1: really hit it off when we first met around a
Speaker 1: decade ago. I think it also helps a ton our
Speaker 1: wives hit off as well. But I had never met
Speaker 1: anyone cheaper than me, and that's saying a lot. And
Speaker 1: it's no wonder that we were destined to start a
Speaker 1: personal finance podcast together. There truly is so much that
Speaker 1: already know about you. But like any good story, you
Speaker 1: start at the beginning. And I realized that I don't
Speaker 1: know what your first money memory is, and so, yeah,
Speaker 1: do you have a clear moment when you grasped the
Speaker 1: concept of money? Also, did Joys prefer the Kirkland signature
Speaker 1: pizza even as a toddler or there was that a
Speaker 1: more of an acquired taste. Yeah, now that was later
Speaker 1: in life. Really, that was more more recent occurrence. Uh.
Speaker 1: And and I will say, actually I talked about this
Speaker 1: recently on Twitter with somebody how Little Caesar's raised the
Speaker 1: prices of their pizza that inflation robbers meeting the road.
Speaker 1: But like, it's too short to really eat cheap pizza
Speaker 1: too frequently, so I usually spring forth the nicer stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess when it comes to first money memories,
Speaker 1: probably first money memory is my parents had like this, uh,
Speaker 1: this cardboard cut out with like little dimes and nickels
Speaker 1: and pennies and dollars. Did you ever have one of
Speaker 1: those where it's like it's like a little learning way
Speaker 1: to learn about money. And so I remember seeing that,
Speaker 1: and it was this tangible thing where I got to
Speaker 1: group them and do additional subtraction and kind of get
Speaker 1: to figure out how money works. Okay, I do remember
Speaker 1: doing that in elementary school, like the same cardboard, like
Speaker 1: really to learn time and stuff. So your parents like
Speaker 1: stole it from the elemarry exactly. Actually you preat your
Speaker 1: older sister probably ganked it and you got to take
Speaker 1: a look at it. She was a bad one, you know.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot from that. So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that was probably the most early memories I had is
Speaker 1: kind of playing with those physical cardboard cut out of money.
Speaker 1: But but then I think the kids had g I Joe's,
Speaker 1: and Joe had dollar bills on the shelf all lined up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not necessarily know. I was not like roomed to be
Speaker 1: some sort of personal finance nerd. But I think the
Speaker 1: the other thing that sticks out in my mind when
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the earliest memories I have of like
Speaker 1: actual money was when my parents I had to have
Speaker 1: conversations about in particular, the shoes that I wanted to buy.
Speaker 1: I was like super into the fancy basketball shoes of
Speaker 1: the day, the Scotty Pippens, the Michael Jordan's, all the
Speaker 1: all the good stuff that Charles Barkley's. They all had
Speaker 1: great shoes. Man, speaking of investments, if only you had
Speaker 1: gotten a couple of pairs of those that never worn
Speaker 1: them in the box, you, I mean, you'd be a
Speaker 1: multi millionaire thousands at least, right, Yeah, So that's a
Speaker 1: good point. Uh, But yeah, having there was always a
Speaker 1: conversation between my parents and I because they said, listen,
Speaker 1: here's a limit on what we're willing to spend four
Speaker 1: shoes for you. If you want, we can get you
Speaker 1: these like rebox and you're gonna and you can wear those.
Speaker 1: But if you want those nicer shoes, you you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to bring some of your own birthday or or
Speaker 1: Christmas money to the table in order to make it happen.
Speaker 1: And that was the first time I think I realized
Speaker 1: trade offs and how important tradeoffs are when we're talking
Speaker 1: about personal finances. And sometimes occasionally I did opt for
Speaker 1: the fancy shoes. I put my money where my mouth
Speaker 1: was and I was like, this is worth it. And
Speaker 1: I still remember that pair of Scotty Pippins and they
Speaker 1: were worth it. Uh it felt so good on your feet,
Speaker 1: they were so good. But most of the time I
Speaker 1: opted to say I'm gonna get to get the free
Speaker 1: shoes that mom and dad are gonna buy me. But
Speaker 1: that's one of those, I think first memories I had
Speaker 1: where it was like I have a decision and I
Speaker 1: have money that I can choose whether or not this
Speaker 1: is worth it or not to me. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean I love what your parents did there as well,
Speaker 1: because essentially what they're doing is matching you right like
Speaker 1: they're kind of meeting meaning you. I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how much they're willing to, you know, bring to the table,
Speaker 1: but the ability for them to kind of incentivize you
Speaker 1: to alter your spending, your behavior a little bit, because
Speaker 1: you could have taken out money and been like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really want those shoes, and then you go blow
Speaker 1: the rest of the money on your say a dreamcast
Speaker 1: or whatever. I remember you buying from the yard sailor
Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, because I love when parents are
Speaker 1: able to mimic the different types of patterns and behaviors
Speaker 1: that we're going to encounter in real life. And so this,
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that your parents did that, and
Speaker 1: I look forward to being able to do that with
Speaker 1: you know, with my kids. I'm sure you you're looking
Speaker 1: forward to doing the same as our as our kids
Speaker 1: get older, So kind of moving along. You know. One
Speaker 1: of the things that I think is really impressive about
Speaker 1: you is the number of different, like different jobs that
Speaker 1: I've heard you had while you're in high school. Like
Speaker 1: I only worked at the local golf course, but you
Speaker 1: had a quite varied work history. So yeah, tell us
Speaker 1: about that in specifically, did you have a favorite job
Speaker 1: that you held? Okay, so yeah, I had a bunch
Speaker 1: of different jobs growing up, and and some of them
Speaker 1: before the age where you're legally allowed to work just
Speaker 1: stuff in the neighborhood, like mowing lawns, right, And that
Speaker 1: was like literally my first introduction to making my own money,
Speaker 1: and that was empowering. And my dad was just a
Speaker 1: big help in helping me get that business off the ground,
Speaker 1: Like had just a few yards in the neighborhood, and
Speaker 1: he was always willing to help me on a Saturday,
Speaker 1: which is huge, Like he wasn't just like, alright, go
Speaker 1: pound the pavements on. He was like, I know, he
Speaker 1: was dead tired from working all week, and he still
Speaker 1: came with me to mo those lawns, which awesome. I yeah,
Speaker 1: major props to my pops. But uh yeah. Then, at
Speaker 1: at fourteen, the earliest age you could start working in
Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, I started working at Chick fil A,
Speaker 1: and right across the street from my high school was
Speaker 1: the easiest place to get to, so I could walk
Speaker 1: straight across and work for three hours before I would
Speaker 1: go home for the evening. And I still remember my
Speaker 1: starting wage five dollars and fifteen cents an hour, which
Speaker 1: was the bare minimum you were allowed to get paid,
Speaker 1: the far cry from what they're paying today. But I
Speaker 1: think my favorite job overall in those years between, like
Speaker 1: you know, growing up and then and then getting to
Speaker 1: to college was working at the Eckerd Photo Lab. Okay,
Speaker 1: that was just like a fun job where I was
Speaker 1: like getting to interact with people who had just got
Speaker 1: a vacation and they turned in their photos. And do
Speaker 1: people even still do that anymore? I don't think so,
Speaker 1: there's not like a photo person, well they do. I
Speaker 1: mean they've got the printers, but you just sent in.
Speaker 1: They don't bring in the roles of film exactly. They
Speaker 1: sent it in from their phone. But me, I was
Speaker 1: like manning the machine and changing changing tones. I got
Speaker 1: like an old school version of photoshop. And then I
Speaker 1: would get to talk to people about the photos I
Speaker 1: had seen, because because you've seen it and you kind
Speaker 1: of know who's about to walk into exactly because you've
Speaker 1: been staring at pictures of them. Yeah, I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: Rome looked like it was fun. Huh, how about it? Like, dude,
Speaker 1: stop being a creed? So that was a fun trying
Speaker 1: not to be the Robin Williams from One Hour Photos.
Speaker 1: But um, I mean, so you just enjoyed that. That
Speaker 1: was just a I mean it sounds like it was
Speaker 1: fun from a social standpoint, and knowing you obviously that
Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, just get the way
Speaker 1: I got to interact with people was probably the most
Speaker 1: fun part of that. Did you did you ever have
Speaker 1: like a really amazing boss or manager? Um? Who, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel that in the past when I
Speaker 1: look back to some of the different folks who influenced me,
Speaker 1: they were always really good teachers. Uh, And so for me,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that's something that would stand out to
Speaker 1: me is the ability to not just do the job
Speaker 1: and get some get some stuff done, but the ability
Speaker 1: to grow as an individual and to learn. I'm curious
Speaker 1: if you had some different jobs where you had an
Speaker 1: individual that stood out to you. I feel like I've
Speaker 1: always been lucky to work for awesome people for the
Speaker 1: most part. Like there are a couple of bosses I
Speaker 1: can point back to and be like, not my favorite,
Speaker 1: but but for the most manager you know, they were.
Speaker 1: They were great, honestly, And it's one of those situations
Speaker 1: where when you're fourteen fifteen and you're completely immature, you
Speaker 1: need someone who's going to give you like a whole
Speaker 1: lot of grace as they're kind of helping you grow
Speaker 1: been to an adult. And that was just a great
Speaker 1: learning experience for me having a job early on. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think the managers there were super helpful
Speaker 1: and it was a great experience. I don't know, probably
Speaker 1: my favorite boss was was at the radio station I
Speaker 1: worked at for like fourteen fifteen years, and just because
Speaker 1: he was such an encourager and he was such a
Speaker 1: believer in your talent, and abilities, and he was always
Speaker 1: encouraging not not just me, everybody in in the building
Speaker 1: about what they could do. And I remember reading something
Speaker 1: actually from a friend recently who she she is a
Speaker 1: writer and she writes all the time, and she points
Speaker 1: back to pointing back recently to this high school teacher
Speaker 1: who told her you're a great writer and like you
Speaker 1: can do this, and that's still is in her mind,
Speaker 1: motivating her to write to this day. And I think interesting,
Speaker 1: I look back to some of those conversations when I
Speaker 1: was working at the radio station and my boss saying like,
Speaker 1: you got this, you got talent, and like you need
Speaker 1: to keep working at this, but like I like what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and that goes a long way in helping
Speaker 1: foster someone's career. And if you can be that person,
Speaker 1: I think to tell somebody that that they're on the
Speaker 1: right path, or that you like what they're doing, you
Speaker 1: never know how far those words of encouragement are gonna go.
Speaker 1: That's funny. Yet, as you were saying that about your
Speaker 1: friend who was a writer, it made me think back
Speaker 1: to when I was in college. One of my professor
Speaker 1: what I was taking advertising classes. I remember her specifically
Speaker 1: talking about photography because essentially we had to come up
Speaker 1: with our own little campaign, and she was like, hey,
Speaker 1: this this is a pretty great concept. You know, the headline,
Speaker 1: like the copy is great, but these images are awesome. Uh,
Speaker 1: She's like, have you ever thought about photography? And thinking back,
Speaker 1: I realized that maybe that may have been what kind
Speaker 1: of pointed me in the direction of focusing more on
Speaker 1: photography as I got into graphic design and all always
Speaker 1: had a more photographic lean to it, and then obviously
Speaker 1: got into photography as well. And we are actually going
Speaker 1: to talk more about, you know, your history there at
Speaker 1: the radio station. I think I'm gonna have a question
Speaker 1: maybe about the same boss who you mentioned perhaps, But
Speaker 1: before we get to that though, like before we get
Speaker 1: to that stage of your life, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like here on the show, you've only really just touched
Speaker 1: on the fact that, like, it wasn't all smooth sailing
Speaker 1: at home as a kid when it came to money. Uh,
Speaker 1: do you want to share know what I've heard you
Speaker 1: describe before as perhaps your most pivotal money moment. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think this is really when if there
Speaker 1: is a inflection point in my personal finance trajectory it
Speaker 1: was growing up age basically twelve or thirteen, when my
Speaker 1: parents ended up filing for bankruptcy. And at the same
Speaker 1: time after that, the our car got repossessed, and it
Speaker 1: was one of the things where we knew it was
Speaker 1: going to happen, we just didn't know when. And one
Speaker 1: day we were expecting it to happen, and it didn't happen,
Speaker 1: didn't happen, and then it was gone one morning. And
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where I just remember
Speaker 1: as a kid, was kind of like looming over our heads.
Speaker 1: And at the same time it was money was a
Speaker 1: constant source of friction in the house. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I was also at this important age where
Speaker 1: it left this indelible mark on me where it's my
Speaker 1: younger sister, she was a little bit younger than me,
Speaker 1: maybe couldn't not not quite old enough to realize exactly
Speaker 1: what was going on. My older sister was in high school,
Speaker 1: she was like dating and working, and I was just
Speaker 1: at this like hyper impressional age where that left a
Speaker 1: major mark and I think has probably still contributed to
Speaker 1: how how I view money today and just how maybe
Speaker 1: how intentional I am with it. Uh, But yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that was the point. It was that it was
Speaker 1: that age and it was those things happening in my
Speaker 1: family's life that made me say, like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to be good with money. You know, you
Speaker 1: know what, I want to be good enough with money
Speaker 1: where I don't ever have to argue about money with
Speaker 1: my spouse. Um. And it's not that you know, Emily
Speaker 1: and I don't still have money disagreements from time to time,
Speaker 1: but it's one of those things where we don't want
Speaker 1: to have get to the point where we're not sure
Speaker 1: if we're going to have enough, and that leads to
Speaker 1: conflict or us having to do things that we don't
Speaker 1: want to do in order just to secure more money. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's definitely the probably the most pivotal point
Speaker 1: in my life when it comes to how I think,
Speaker 1: in view and do money in personal finance. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we we always are going to have disagreements oftentimes
Speaker 1: with our partners when it comes to money, but you
Speaker 1: just don't necessarily when all of your conversations to be negative.
Speaker 1: Right like, like hopefully you all are in a position
Speaker 1: where you can sit down and when you talk about money,
Speaker 1: it's it's a very good conversation. It's this thing that
Speaker 1: where maybe you're cracking out, you know, a craft beer
Speaker 1: or bottle of line. You're having this meeting with your
Speaker 1: partner because you are wanting to look ahead at the
Speaker 1: different goals that you share or that you're you know
Speaker 1: that might be looming on the horizon. But you know, I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to fully understand and you know,
Speaker 1: the impact of an event like that, like as we're
Speaker 1: growing up, even you know, when decades have passed and
Speaker 1: we have the benefit of hindsight, do you ever wonder, like,
Speaker 1: what would have happened if that repo had had never happened?
Speaker 1: Do you think that maybe instead you would have been
Speaker 1: kind of like spend thrift Joel, Like there would have
Speaker 1: been this alter ego honestly bizarro Joel probably think so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I do think so. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: really think about it like that very often, but I
Speaker 1: do think that left such a mark that I am
Speaker 1: a different person because of It'd be a sneaker head,
Speaker 1: and I don't think, yeah, maybe maybe I would be
Speaker 1: one of those guys spending all his money on fancy sneakers,
Speaker 1: spend more on shoes than I do yes, But I
Speaker 1: also I don't think of it as this negative experience
Speaker 1: that I would go back and change. Even though at
Speaker 1: the time it was difficult, I feel like what it's
Speaker 1: led to has been something really good and yees. So
Speaker 1: I don't think of it as something that I want
Speaker 1: to go back in a race. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: that doesn't that doesn't mean it was easy while it
Speaker 1: was happening. Sure, it's not something that you would wish
Speaker 1: that that you're planning to happen to your family, you know,
Speaker 1: it to your kids. All right. So I feel like
Speaker 1: we've kind of covered young Joel. We're gonna get to
Speaker 1: a slightly older Joel. We're gonna get to Joel as
Speaker 1: he entered adulthood. And I've got several other questions, including
Speaker 1: some question about college, and we actually get to that
Speaker 1: right after this break. All right, so we are back.
Speaker 1: We're doing a special deep dive episode on Joel's money
Speaker 1: origin story. Uh, and Joel, you just shared the experience
Speaker 1: of having a family car repossessed, but ultimately that that
Speaker 1: wasn't a decision that you yourself made, right, it happened
Speaker 1: to you. You were kind of more in the passenger
Speaker 1: seat not literally. I was not the one who bought
Speaker 1: the car exactly. You. I did not do finance. It
Speaker 1: was you were more in a passive position, I guess
Speaker 1: is what I'm getting at here. Um, But while you
Speaker 1: were in college, you actively made a decision that ended
Speaker 1: up having a lasting impact on your finances. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us about that? Sure? Yes, I mean so, while
Speaker 1: I was in college the first two years, I ended
Speaker 1: up going to like a private school in South Carolina,
Speaker 1: and I think it was the best place for me
Speaker 1: at the time for the first two years of school.
Speaker 1: But it was one of those things where I realized
Speaker 1: halfway through, wait a second, I'm taking on I'm taking
Speaker 1: on debt to go to the school I got. Uh.
Speaker 1: Fortunately I got a lot of great scholarships, but still
Speaker 1: I was at the at two years into into college.
Speaker 1: Private school. Yeah, cost a lot of money at twelve
Speaker 1: grand and student debt. And probably a lot of people
Speaker 1: just laughed when they heard, because they're like, that is
Speaker 1: nothing that that's like basically that's like books for me exactly,
Speaker 1: And and a lot of people would feel that way,
Speaker 1: and especially right now, I get it, like the price
Speaker 1: of education has skyrocketed. Of course, in the last what
Speaker 1: eighteen years, but it's at the same time for me,
Speaker 1: I said, why why am I year and can I
Speaker 1: accomplish the same the same goal what I want? Can
Speaker 1: I get what I want at another school where maybe
Speaker 1: it's free. And the cool thing about the state of
Speaker 1: Georgia and a lot of other states have something similar.
Speaker 1: They have this thing called the Hope Scholarship where if
Speaker 1: you had over a three point o g p A
Speaker 1: in high school, you were able to go to college
Speaker 1: for free in state and in the in state universities.
Speaker 1: And so I transferred back and ended up getting my
Speaker 1: last two years of education for free because of that.
Speaker 1: And I was living at home and working at the
Speaker 1: same time. So it was one of those things where
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm really glad I made that choice. Not
Speaker 1: adding more student loan pain to that, to that bucket
Speaker 1: load of debt is is something I'm happy I avoided totally.
Speaker 1: And let's be honest too, like there's a good chance
Speaker 1: of you're not getting out in two more years. You
Speaker 1: probably would have been on that five year playing off
Speaker 1: of that private school. No, it's interesting. Actually switching back
Speaker 1: was one of the things where I lost a couple
Speaker 1: of credits, and so I had i'd work even harder,
Speaker 1: but I'd already been taking like eighteen nineteen hours, and
Speaker 1: so it kind of put me back on the track
Speaker 1: to like, all right, you still got to take sixteen
Speaker 1: seventeen hours every semester. A couple of them didn't transfer,
Speaker 1: but it was still worth it, and god, well, you
Speaker 1: know what. Like what I really appreciate, though, is the
Speaker 1: fact that, like, you were willing to make this serious
Speaker 1: change to your life, like once you realize that things
Speaker 1: weren't painting out. Because I believe that that most college
Speaker 1: students in your position, I think they would have just
Speaker 1: stuck around and and wrote it out while racking up
Speaker 1: that debt. I feel like that's what I would have done, Like,
Speaker 1: because at that point in your life, you're surrounded by friends.
Speaker 1: You see sort of the trajectory of everyone. And for me, like,
Speaker 1: at one point, I thought about changing majors, and I
Speaker 1: knew that that was going to mean an additional year
Speaker 1: or two, and I thought, no way, Like, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't do that. Hey, I didn't want to. I
Speaker 1: didn't have the money on hand because I was running
Speaker 1: out of scholarship. But be all my friends were graduating
Speaker 1: and so there for me, there was almost like this
Speaker 1: social pressure and that's actually kind of surprising, I guess,
Speaker 1: because you are a very social dude. But even still
Speaker 1: you're able to combat that. You were able to fight
Speaker 1: those pressures. A lot of my friends actually were seniors
Speaker 1: that year and I was graduating, so they were leaving,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I guess, and I mean, why not,
Speaker 1: because yeah, when your friend base is leaving your right,
Speaker 1: that kind of helps make that decision a little bit easier,
Speaker 1: got it. But but I will say, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that you're Yeah, you can't credit that fully. You're able
Speaker 1: to piggyback off of the fact that you had a
Speaker 1: bunch of friends who are graduating, Like they're graduating time
Speaker 1: for me to get out of here. It's a piece
Speaker 1: out as well. Yeah, for sure, And that was definitely.
Speaker 1: That was definitely part of it and made that decision easier. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that, like you said,
Speaker 1: a lot of high school students all have young adults
Speaker 1: going into college first couple of years, they're oblivious to
Speaker 1: the student loan that they might be taking it on.
Speaker 1: I think they're becoming less oblivious. I think it's become
Speaker 1: such a problem that they can't avoid knowing what's happening
Speaker 1: to them. But for a long time, a lot of
Speaker 1: people in you know, just a little bit younger than
Speaker 1: we are, have been kind of fed the belief that
Speaker 1: a college education at whatever cost is going to be
Speaker 1: worth it. And now people are being forced to challenge
Speaker 1: that assumption a little bit more. And I think it's
Speaker 1: a good thing, because it's not that we think college
Speaker 1: is a bad thing, Like I would go over and
Speaker 1: do it again for myself. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you have to weigh the risk and the reward, and
Speaker 1: you have to say doing a responsible manner because if
Speaker 1: you don't, it's not a good decision. And you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that whatever education you're receiving is going
Speaker 1: to be put to good use in that the debt,
Speaker 1: the potential debtload that you're taking on, that you minimize it,
Speaker 1: and that it propels you to hire earnings. Nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you also share that you're saving money by living
Speaker 1: at home. I think that is such an underrated way
Speaker 1: to do college, right, because, like you said, those first
Speaker 1: two years undergrads are oblivious. I mean literally my first
Speaker 1: two years I changed schools like within the college both.
Speaker 1: I mean I did it. Literally, I think every single
Speaker 1: year I was in college, I was in a different
Speaker 1: school because I thought, oh, first I'm gonna be a
Speaker 1: science major. Oh no, that I don't like chemistry. That's
Speaker 1: not working out. And so now I'm gonna be in
Speaker 1: the business school. I'm in terry. Uh, And you bounce around,
Speaker 1: and I mean the first two years you know, granted
Speaker 1: some of those credits did count, but you you have
Speaker 1: no idea what you're doing. That's what those first two
Speaker 1: years afore though, some of that trial and error, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but figuring out what you're interested. What better way to
Speaker 1: uh experience some of that trial and a than to
Speaker 1: be paying very little money by going to a local
Speaker 1: community college. Yes, we are huge proponents of folks doing that. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: you graduated, you kind of you know, started to grow
Speaker 1: up a little bit, move on with your life before
Speaker 1: we started our own little company here, you know, with
Speaker 1: this podcast, Like I pictured you as what i'd call
Speaker 1: like a company man. Um. Not that you had a
Speaker 1: good well you didn't have to wear like a suit
Speaker 1: or anything, right, but that's actually part of the reason
Speaker 1: and a terrible reason. But why I chose to go
Speaker 1: work in radio was because you could wear jeans and
Speaker 1: flip flops, and literally that was half of my reasons. Really,
Speaker 1: you don't have to dress up to do that. I feel, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: a lifestyle and what it feels like to go work
Speaker 1: for a company that have that has a lot of
Speaker 1: weight when it comes to the decisions. I mean literally,
Speaker 1: when I was looking to apply to different advertising agencies,
Speaker 1: like that was also something I kept in mind as well,
Speaker 1: because actually I can't remember if Madman was out at
Speaker 1: that point, but even still the modern advertising agency it was,
Speaker 1: it was still kind of like a cooler place still work.
Speaker 1: I can't drinking old fashioned on the job. I'm out
Speaker 1: of here, uh, than like an accounting firm or something
Speaker 1: like that. But the ability to work in a creative
Speaker 1: department and just where jeans and a hoodie was definitely
Speaker 1: something that was appealing to me. Uh And so it's
Speaker 1: not fancy in that way, but your job specifically, like
Speaker 1: you had nice company benefits, like a four one K
Speaker 1: Like I just joked earlier about how that's not something
Speaker 1: I ever had access to, but you did. You had
Speaker 1: a match. I've never had anything like that up until
Speaker 1: very recently here with our company. So my question for you,
Speaker 1: did you start investing? Did you start maxing out that
Speaker 1: four one k right away? Like, how did you know
Speaker 1: that that was a smart move to make? How did
Speaker 1: you learn what to do? Sure? Yet, No, I did
Speaker 1: not start maxing out that way I was. I was
Speaker 1: really I knew heard it folks, when Joel first got
Speaker 1: his first job, he was not taking advantage of the
Speaker 1: company match. No, well, no, I was getting the match. Okay,
Speaker 1: that was the one thing I knew not to screw
Speaker 1: up on. There you go. But only because literally the
Speaker 1: job that my first job that that I got, or
Speaker 1: not my first job, but the second job that I
Speaker 1: got that I was at fourteen fifteen years was we
Speaker 1: talked a lot about personal finance that that we've worked
Speaker 1: on a consumer advice radio show, And so I knew
Speaker 1: enough to not miss out on the company match. But
Speaker 1: I had still not yet my ears had not been
Speaker 1: perked up to the ideas of financial independence and the
Speaker 1: idea of like, well, okay, I'm gonna get if I
Speaker 1: saved ten percent for uh forty five years of my life,
Speaker 1: then I'll be able to retire. That was still kind
Speaker 1: of the way I was thinking at that point in life,
Speaker 1: could have had that old school mindset. Yeah. Plus my
Speaker 1: my salary was mini school at the time, so maxing
Speaker 1: and out was I wouldn't have been able to live. No,
Speaker 1: it was it was like not even close to an option.
Speaker 1: So getting the match was enough of a sacrifice for
Speaker 1: me to build and make. But later on, as like
Speaker 1: my I got more in tune with what money can
Speaker 1: do if it's invested early enough, I did begin to
Speaker 1: uh pour more and more into my fore own k,
Speaker 1: max out my wrath eye right then eventually max out
Speaker 1: my four own K. And so it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where I was like, yes, okay, but I wish
Speaker 1: somebody had challenged me to do that sooner, had said,
Speaker 1: you know what, the matches gray, but you can do more.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's why I get excited, especially
Speaker 1: when we hear from younger having money listeners and I'm
Speaker 1: doing it already, and I'm like, man, if only you
Speaker 1: have four I had that same information, that same challenge,
Speaker 1: that same knowledge that you have like I, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and part of it really is not just
Speaker 1: I can't blame it on a lack of knowledge. It
Speaker 1: really was just a lack of intentionality and um and so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fact that they have all those things working together,
Speaker 1: I'm super impressed. Well, I mean, I will say, just
Speaker 1: reaching financial independence it had a branding problem basically in
Speaker 1: the past ten years, it really has come a long
Speaker 1: way as being you know, as as foaksing retirement as
Speaker 1: something that you do when once you hit fifteen, nine
Speaker 1: and a half or sixty five years old, where you
Speaker 1: sit on the you know, the rocker on the front porch,
Speaker 1: you got the gold wash, you're sitting there, you no
Speaker 1: longer have to work. That has always been the view
Speaker 1: typically of retirement, of reaching a point of financial freedom.
Speaker 1: But over the past ten years we have seen a
Speaker 1: dramatic shift in what it means to be financially independent.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean waiting until you're really old to completely
Speaker 1: pull the plug on working. It can mean gradually, over time,
Speaker 1: making that transition, taking on different jobs that you want,
Speaker 1: just the ability to have options, sucking away enough so
Speaker 1: you can quit your day job and go do your
Speaker 1: own thing and start your own business. I mean that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think the the nuance in
Speaker 1: this space has grown dramatically, and so many great voices
Speaker 1: have come up to say like, no, you can't go
Speaker 1: this path, or you can go this path, and so
Speaker 1: it's opened up people's eyes to say, oh wait, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of different directions I can go, and
Speaker 1: it's not just the one path that has kind of
Speaker 1: been the traditional exactly. Yeah, the traditional path exactly. Okay,
Speaker 1: So real quick, once you got that first decent paying job,
Speaker 1: what were you splurging on before craft beer? Right? So
Speaker 1: on every interview we bring guests on and we asked
Speaker 1: them what their craft beer equivalent is. What was your
Speaker 1: craft beer equivalent before craft I think it was probably
Speaker 1: baseball games. I was going to Braids games, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where again I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't have much money, especially in those those early
Speaker 1: working gears, and I was able to score Braves tickets
Speaker 1: for super cheap because they played downtown. Almost nobody went
Speaker 1: to the games. I could ride my bike over there
Speaker 1: and I would go to games and get out of
Speaker 1: there for five bucks or ten bucks if I bought
Speaker 1: some food. I mean, there was just all these ways
Speaker 1: to go to Braves games for super cheap that don't
Speaker 1: exist now. And so I feel like it's like but
Speaker 1: you weren't from an old time, right, and so you
Speaker 1: weren't spending money on it was it was there something
Speaker 1: I was going consistently, all right, So and so I
Speaker 1: would go to small purchase done consistently. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: go games a year and those were those were good
Speaker 1: old days. Now I make it to one, maybe two.
Speaker 1: I didn't make it to the World Series, of course,
Speaker 1: like I told everybody, that's right, and you didn't. I
Speaker 1: guess we haven't talked about this yet on the show
Speaker 1: You Got, You Got, You scored yourself some of that
Speaker 1: World Series swag. I got a shirt for Christmas, yes,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that was that was kind of what I
Speaker 1: viewed as my sports for the time. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm all, I'm gonna go to as many Braves games
Speaker 1: as I want. You're the Braves game guy. Yep, yeah, totally. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you've kind of alluded to this. Many folks know
Speaker 1: Clark Howard. You know, he was a nationally syndicated consumer
Speaker 1: advocate radio host, and like you said, he talks a
Speaker 1: lot about personal finance. And so I'm assuming you learned
Speaker 1: a ton while working on the show. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of different concepts, a lot of different principles that I'm
Speaker 1: sure you heard reiterated on the show constantly. But so
Speaker 1: my question for you, though, is like, do you have
Speaker 1: any specific lessons that you learned, like not necessarily from
Speaker 1: the show, but just from being around Clark Howard himself
Speaker 1: that you different lessons that you picked up from observing
Speaker 1: him in real life. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And by
Speaker 1: the way, that the person I was talking about earlier
Speaker 1: on The Boss who influencely was not Clark, he was
Speaker 1: actually the program director Pete Spriggs, who was Okay, it
Speaker 1: still is a phenomenal human being. But there you go.
Speaker 1: I could have said many of the same things Clark
Speaker 1: truly and and yes, um shout out to Pete. Yeah
Speaker 1: he's awesome. Miss that guy. But he Clark is such
Speaker 1: a generous guy and in every sense of the word,
Speaker 1: and and he's like this positive influence I would say
Speaker 1: on on everybody that he that he meets, like random
Speaker 1: people at Costco, the way he treats them, or just
Speaker 1: people somebody on the street, somebody has a flat tire,
Speaker 1: Like he's the kind of guy who stops to help
Speaker 1: change it, Like that's awesome. That's rare, especially in today's
Speaker 1: and so I think what I learned from Clark was
Speaker 1: the way you treat everybody matters and down to the
Speaker 1: person who's checking at your groceries at the grocery store,
Speaker 1: or the waitress or waiter when you're ordering food. And
Speaker 1: uh so, I don't know, I think that goes a
Speaker 1: long way. He was just this like incredible cocktail of
Speaker 1: like optimism, kindness, and humility, and it just kind of, uh,
Speaker 1: it's infectious. It makes you want to live in the
Speaker 1: same way. And he's definitely that kind of guy. He's
Speaker 1: one impressive dude, well especially considering I mean, we had
Speaker 1: him on the show here last year. Now we can
Speaker 1: link to that episode in our show notes, but we
Speaker 1: talked about how he sold his first business when he
Speaker 1: was very young. He was financially independent at a very
Speaker 1: young age. Uh, and so you could easily see him
Speaker 1: going in a direction that wouldn't lend itself to being
Speaker 1: charitable not only with your money, but also how you
Speaker 1: treat other people. So yeah, so I'll not note we're
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick rate. But after that, speaking of
Speaker 1: financial independence, we're gonna talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about real estates. We'll get to all
Speaker 1: of that right after this break. All right, we're back
Speaker 1: from the break. We're gonna wrap this thing up here
Speaker 1: before long. Yeah, get kicked me out of here. I
Speaker 1: got got somewhere to be. I got somebody else to
Speaker 1: talk to you. Uh yeah, no, literally nobody else to
Speaker 1: talk to today. Just uh some episodes for to edit
Speaker 1: and listen to. But let's talk about real estate specifically,
Speaker 1: because I honestly can't remember how it is that you
Speaker 1: got interested in investing in real estate. I know my story,
Speaker 1: we talked about this last week. I remember how I had,
Speaker 1: you know, the seeds of real estate planted, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how that came about for you. So can
Speaker 1: you share, you know, how it is that you that
Speaker 1: you first saw the light when it came to real estate. Okay,
Speaker 1: so is gonna probably sound a little lame, But my
Speaker 1: my mom super big into HDTV, Like she is probably
Speaker 1: Joanna Gaines's biggest fan. She is, and she has. She
Speaker 1: her and your dad. They didn't they go to Texas.
Speaker 1: They went to wake up. They specifically stayed in a
Speaker 1: property that she had renovated. Was that on? Like was
Speaker 1: it an Airbnb? Yes? Okay, yes, I've got that thing
Speaker 1: rakes in the cash and then she's not like, she's
Speaker 1: not like Stoker level. But if she met her in person,
Speaker 1: I think she might think she'd be that. She would
Speaker 1: definitely recognized her on the street. Yes, but she's she'd
Speaker 1: probably I don't know, she probably played cool. She probably would,
Speaker 1: but for just starts sweating, gotta play it cool. And
Speaker 1: but for me, I would say, HDTV not my favorite channel.
Speaker 1: But there was this one show that would come on
Speaker 1: and flip flop or something you know. It was called
Speaker 1: Income Property and it was this host, Scott mcgillibrae. I
Speaker 1: don't remember that one. Okay. So this guy used to
Speaker 1: help people with their property turn it into like he would.
Speaker 1: He would help them renovate it and turn it into
Speaker 1: a cash a property that would cash flow even more.
Speaker 1: And sometimes he would turn a single family home into
Speaker 1: a duplex, or he would turn a duplex to a
Speaker 1: nicer duplex or uh, there were all these different ways
Speaker 1: he would suggest to make over your house in order
Speaker 1: to make it more a cash flow and and and
Speaker 1: and help it to make more money and be more valuable.
Speaker 1: I like it. And I remember watching that show and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so this is it's not just
Speaker 1: like paint on walls and QT and something up Like
Speaker 1: he's he's got this plan and he would always see
Speaker 1: the numbers at the end and people would be raking
Speaker 1: in more rent than he even assumed at the beginning,
Speaker 1: so that he'd be like, all right, if you do
Speaker 1: this into this duplex, you get twelve on each side,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, they're getting fourteen
Speaker 1: hunter on each side. And I was like, what how
Speaker 1: do they They're They're killing it. And I think that
Speaker 1: sparked the seed of like, wow, okay, you can create
Speaker 1: something beautiful for somebody to live in and you can
Speaker 1: make money at the same time. And uh. There were
Speaker 1: certainly other touch points along the way. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think getting into the Bigger Pockets podcast for a while,
Speaker 1: which is is still a great one if you want
Speaker 1: to begin investing in real estate. It's really like, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely one of the best ones that I would say, though,
Speaker 1: kind of sparked the beginning where I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: my mind started turning. Was that his name, yeah, Scott
Speaker 1: g or J I don't know. So he was the
Speaker 1: one that was like switching out, swapping out the garage
Speaker 1: door before it was cool, but before all the other
Speaker 1: publications had written about the fact that this one thing
Speaker 1: will increase the curb appeal right allow your property to
Speaker 1: return more. Yeah, he was, he was super smart. He
Speaker 1: always did a good job with those rehynaults, and he
Speaker 1: really offered a lot of good advice, and then he
Speaker 1: would do a lot of the work because he was
Speaker 1: also a contractor. And they were always just fun episodes.
Speaker 1: I don't think that shows on anymore, but it was
Speaker 1: one of those where if you went back to the
Speaker 1: backlogs and watch them, you would learn a lot. Got it?
Speaker 1: And so yes, I mean, so you've been investing in
Speaker 1: real estate for a while now. At this point, I
Speaker 1: feel like you have a lot on your plate. You've
Speaker 1: got several properties that you yourself manage. You don't pay
Speaker 1: for management, you don't. You know, that's for the birds.
Speaker 1: You're you're getting all all that money, You're you're keeping
Speaker 1: those expenses at a minimum. But you're you're also you're
Speaker 1: wrapping up renovating your home. You've got this, you know,
Speaker 1: the podcast. It's a full time job. You've got three kids.
Speaker 1: Do do you foresee yourself continuing to buy additional properties
Speaker 1: where's your head at as far as your investment property
Speaker 1: portfolio moving forward? Yeah, I mean I think I do
Speaker 1: see myself buying more properties, but I also see myself
Speaker 1: going towards maybe easier ways to use the assets that
Speaker 1: I have or the money that I'm making to make investments.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, like we've talked about on the show, we
Speaker 1: love investment properties and they have been great for for us.
Speaker 1: They've been great for for me and my family to
Speaker 1: grow net worth, to have monthly cash flow, and I
Speaker 1: love that we they're right around the corner from us,
Speaker 1: and many of which we have lived in before, and
Speaker 1: so there's like this um cool element to investing where
Speaker 1: you live and I love that. I love that part
Speaker 1: of it, and I could see myself potentially buying more properties,
Speaker 1: but like you said, like yeah, plates kind of kind
Speaker 1: of fold these in these days, and if we want
Speaker 1: to grow this business, then growing the rental property business
Speaker 1: kind of takes a back seat. It's on the back burner.
Speaker 1: And so I think if I did want to do that,
Speaker 1: if I did want to go hard in that direction,
Speaker 1: I would have to find some help when it comes
Speaker 1: on the property management side. And I was gonna actually
Speaker 1: suggest that because I just kind of knocked it, But
Speaker 1: like that's the path that you go. I mean, you
Speaker 1: get to a certain point and there's a certain scale
Speaker 1: at which you can't handle it all yourself exactly, And
Speaker 1: it does feel like it makes a little bit more
Speaker 1: sense to have a manager, a management company, or an
Speaker 1: individual who knows you how it does that you like
Speaker 1: things to be maintained, the different kind of vendors who
Speaker 1: you'd like to choose, and if you've got somebody on
Speaker 1: your side who's got your back like that, I can
Speaker 1: see that being incredibly valuable when it comes to freeing
Speaker 1: up your time. So yeah, maybe, but I still I
Speaker 1: love There's something I love about physical real estate, and
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's a fun investment in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. It also it has there's so many perks.
Speaker 1: We've talked about them way too much on the show,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's older episodes you can go to
Speaker 1: dig into why we love it so much. But there's
Speaker 1: also just this, yeah, this um, this tangible element that
Speaker 1: I like about it. Whereas numbers on the screen have
Speaker 1: a different effect, don't do it for you as as much,
Speaker 1: not the same, right, like a four O one k
Speaker 1: balance or like it's exciting to see those things grow.
Speaker 1: But I think it's more exciting for me to buy
Speaker 1: a property that I'm like, oh, this is undervalued and
Speaker 1: oh I can I can like this that Scott mcgilla
Speaker 1: ray sort of mindset where it's like, how can I
Speaker 1: maximize the returns on this piece of land here with
Speaker 1: this little house on it? And I just love old
Speaker 1: houses too. Yeah, I love those nineteen twenties and thirties
Speaker 1: houses and it's kind of what they've got that character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, I always get excited to go over
Speaker 1: and take a look at a house because they're they're pretty,
Speaker 1: they're cool. Um, It's it's different than sticking your six
Speaker 1: gin in a wrath and not that that's not that's
Speaker 1: a bad idea, it's so, yeah, you need to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't hear Joel incorrectly. Right, Definitely do that make that
Speaker 1: a priority, I would say before you start dabbling into
Speaker 1: real estate or not. Everybody feels the same way I
Speaker 1: do about houses or about real estate, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people think of it as a pain or this
Speaker 1: thing to maintain, and I'm like, well, no, I think
Speaker 1: it is this thing that you can make better, make
Speaker 1: prettier and um and invite people to live in and
Speaker 1: prove the community. Yeah, and so part of it maybe
Speaker 1: is a mindset or maybe just a predisposition. I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're talking about the difference between tangible assets and
Speaker 1: intangible So so so it's like you're less of an n
Speaker 1: f T guy more of a masterworks kind of guy.
Speaker 1: Even that, Like, I'm like, if I don't get to
Speaker 1: put it in my I would rather if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: buy a piece of art, which I do, buy it locally.
Speaker 1: I love art. Yeah, by the look art, I put
Speaker 1: it in my house. For some reason that art like
Speaker 1: Quinn tubbles in value cool, but I don't care really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It also doesn't surprise me that you're into real estate
Speaker 1: because I feel like, like, are do you find yourself
Speaker 1: attracted to the aspect that you get to meet new people?
Speaker 1: So you know, it depends on how busy your life is.
Speaker 1: But when you show a property, it can either be
Speaker 1: the most in my mind, in my experience, it neither
Speaker 1: be the most fun thing ever or it can be
Speaker 1: the most stressful thing because if your counter is pretty open,
Speaker 1: maybe the previous stendants got out of there a little
Speaker 1: bit sooner you've already gotten the place clean, it's good
Speaker 1: to go. You feel good showing it right, like you've
Speaker 1: got time on your side. You've got folks lined up
Speaker 1: and you're able to talk to them. You kind of
Speaker 1: get to to hear their story a little bit. But
Speaker 1: then other times, I don't know, if you're you know,
Speaker 1: if there's a very narrow window and you've got to
Speaker 1: show it to twenty people, thirty people just in a
Speaker 1: single weekend is a good point. That can be stressful.
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about your first job there at the
Speaker 1: Chords or whatever, the photo development, yeah, drug store. There's
Speaker 1: an element of interacting with people that I could see
Speaker 1: you kind of getting into just kind of being there
Speaker 1: in person, getting to hear their story exactly. I think
Speaker 1: that's part of what I like about real estate too,
Speaker 1: is even when you have to get contractors in there something,
Speaker 1: if you get people you trust, Like I love meeting
Speaker 1: my dude Edwin at the house and he's talking like
Speaker 1: he's a great guy, and so every time they could
Speaker 1: do yeah, it's like I gotta put a you know,
Speaker 1: a new bath tub in a place or something like that.
Speaker 1: Like I get to you get say hi to him.
Speaker 1: And so your most recent work that you did at
Speaker 1: a rental uh some fresh yeah, new bath, new new
Speaker 1: tile exactly. And so those are the kind of things
Speaker 1: where I think that relational aspect, that bouncing around town
Speaker 1: and getting out of the house like that stuff kind
Speaker 1: of um, it's a lot of fun in my book. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so kind of On that note, we talk a decent
Speaker 1: bit here on the show about financial independence. We just
Speaker 1: you know, we just talked about it here a little bit.
Speaker 1: We talked about financial freedom. We've shared how you know,
Speaker 1: how we've essentially reached coast fire. And so what advice
Speaker 1: would you give to anyone who is really pursuing financial
Speaker 1: independence they're really getting after it. Do you have any
Speaker 1: specific thoughts to share with folks? I guess when you
Speaker 1: when you phrase it that way, probably my initial reaction
Speaker 1: is to make sure you're doing it in a sustainable way.
Speaker 1: Was that a bias question? The way asked? No, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no. I just think I think like for the
Speaker 1: idiots out there who all they care about his money
Speaker 1: and they're just trying to hit their number, if somebody
Speaker 1: is already overdoing it, then you probably need to cool
Speaker 1: your jets a little bit, and overdoing it is a
Speaker 1: specific thing, right, but uh, there are there are a
Speaker 1: lot of ways to accomplish the goals that you want
Speaker 1: without burning out in the midst of accomplishing those goals.
Speaker 1: And I think there is there's something to be said
Speaker 1: for slowing down and doing it in a methodic whole way,
Speaker 1: because if you're savings rate is, well, what if it
Speaker 1: was and you got to enjoy your life a little
Speaker 1: bit more and maybe you weren't working your fingers to
Speaker 1: the bone, and maybe you got to spend more time
Speaker 1: with people that you loved and you got to take
Speaker 1: an extra week off. I mean, those are the kind
Speaker 1: of things where it's all it's come back to what
Speaker 1: I said about sneakers. It's all a tradeoff, and you
Speaker 1: can buy those sneakers. Now. I'm not suggesting that you should.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, there are measured trade offs that
Speaker 1: are worth making in even even in the here and now.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we try to bring to the
Speaker 1: show every week, right, is saying like we drink a
Speaker 1: fancy beer because it adds a lot to our life
Speaker 1: and it call us more money than most people are
Speaker 1: willing to pay, but there we have just a few
Speaker 1: areas of our lives where we do that. And I
Speaker 1: think there are some people who, in the dogged pursuit
Speaker 1: of financial independence, have are not letting themselves enjoy almost anything.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a tough position to be in.
Speaker 1: I would say, don't do stuff that you hate longer
Speaker 1: than you need to just for money. But but at
Speaker 1: the same time, we are also pro financial independence, we're
Speaker 1: pro that pursuits, and so it is this, it is
Speaker 1: this balance that you have to strike and hard to
Speaker 1: strike that balance. Yeah, the the loudest voices are the extremes,
Speaker 1: and they're the ones telling you, like, go all the way,
Speaker 1: go all out, and you can do this in five
Speaker 1: years or less. And then there are the other people
Speaker 1: who are like, go the slow, methodical route and if
Speaker 1: you just invest, you know, seven eight a year, you'll
Speaker 1: be able to retire when you're forty five. And we're saying,
Speaker 1: and it's not a super sexy message, but that there
Speaker 1: is an awesome place in the in between where you
Speaker 1: can you can live the way you want to in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways now while paying a lot of
Speaker 1: attention to your money and how you invest. So that
Speaker 1: you can set yourself up for success us in a
Speaker 1: few years from now, and then for a lot of success,
Speaker 1: you know, a decade or or two from now. Yeah, absolutely, man,
Speaker 1: you know so, I think we've got a lot of
Speaker 1: listeners who are all across the spectrum when it comes
Speaker 1: to where they are in their pursuit of financial independence
Speaker 1: and their pursuit of being really smart with their money.
Speaker 1: But I think there's a sort of a real danger
Speaker 1: or a real temptation to look at what the world
Speaker 1: is feeding you and telling you that you should do,
Speaker 1: which is oftentimes the pursuit of money, success power, the
Speaker 1: different things achievement right generally speaking, whether it be the
Speaker 1: boss at work who is a great boss and who
Speaker 1: is encouraging you, Like we talked about earlier, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're such a great writer. And while that may have
Speaker 1: initially just been kind of a paddle on the back
Speaker 1: or just them truly calling out a talent that they
Speaker 1: see that can easily find its way being channeled into
Speaker 1: working more and and neglecting some of the other important
Speaker 1: things in life. Um Like, I feel like money, just
Speaker 1: generally speaking, is it's almost like this, like it's the
Speaker 1: sirens you know, like Odcs, he's tied himself to the
Speaker 1: mast and the sirens, the call of that money. It
Speaker 1: will always be there. And I believe that there are
Speaker 1: fewer folks saying be careful of that, as opposed to
Speaker 1: the voices, the books, the podcasts that are out there, Yes,
Speaker 1: who are telling folks plus you need to do, just
Speaker 1: go hard after it. And then once you achieve that,
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna have options, you're gonna have success, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have happiness. But we believe here that you've got
Speaker 1: to strike that balance, and it is I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be easier for you to maintain that balance
Speaker 1: as you climbed the ladder of success, rather than having
Speaker 1: it be completely lopsided. You climbed the ladder and then
Speaker 1: expect to be able to kind of find that balancing
Speaker 1: act while you're way up there in the ladder. I
Speaker 1: think it's a lot easier to find that balance when
Speaker 1: you're closer to the ground. But I like what you said.
Speaker 1: I mean it truly is. It's difficult because it depends
Speaker 1: on the individual. It depends where they are in their life,
Speaker 1: it depends what they have going on, their interests, all
Speaker 1: of that you have to when we were willing to
Speaker 1: make more sacrifices with our time in order to make
Speaker 1: more money so that we could invest it to make
Speaker 1: progress for our futures. And and now you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the hard work has been done. And it's
Speaker 1: not that there isn't a lot of hard work, fun
Speaker 1: work left to do, but it is one of those
Speaker 1: things where, yeah, so much of it does depend on
Speaker 1: your life stage. Do you have kids, like we talked
Speaker 1: to you know, I don't know. Just what you just
Speaker 1: said made me think of multiple episodes we've done, multiple
Speaker 1: interviews that we've done one with West Moss about happiness
Speaker 1: and how you can't just turn the dial on and
Speaker 1: off and and basically like, yeah, that the things that
Speaker 1: you're pursuing in the here and now are the hobbies.
Speaker 1: The relationships are crucial and you can't cut those off
Speaker 1: and then expect when you hit retirement where all my
Speaker 1: friends at. And then I'm thinking about carl our interview
Speaker 1: with Mr Fi and how he's talking about how you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do live in flips when you have kids, and
Speaker 1: maybe some people are willing to do that, but like
Speaker 1: it is, there's like a time and a place for
Speaker 1: for everything, and it's not one size fits all, that's
Speaker 1: for sure exactly. Well, speaking of core pursuits, as west
Speaker 1: Moss likes to call them, different hobbies, Uh, let's get
Speaker 1: to our beer this episode, which is called Woodland Pursuit.
Speaker 1: And I completely picked up this beer for us here
Speaker 1: on the show, specifically for you, because it's got a
Speaker 1: disc golf goal. Is that what you call him? Goals?
Speaker 1: Like the metal basket, the whole. I guess it's this golf,
Speaker 1: but it's got that. It's got a little little red
Speaker 1: putter sitting in there, and it's in it's in the woods.
Speaker 1: It's called Woodland Pursuit, which also Woodland happens to be
Speaker 1: the name of the street that you live on our
Speaker 1: streets intersect Woodland, You've got Delaware. This is a juicy
Speaker 1: New England I pa by one of our favorite breweries,
Speaker 1: Humble Forger. What your what your thoughts on this one?
Speaker 1: And when I first saw this beer, I was like,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is like my spirit animal beer.
Speaker 1: It really is, because yeah, the disc golf, the Woodland,
Speaker 1: which is the name of my streets, perfect street that
Speaker 1: I love, and yeah, this this was this was awesome beer. Matt,
Speaker 1: this is delicious. And you know it's funny because for
Speaker 1: an I p A. It had a lot of like
Speaker 1: fruit flavor, but not not generic fruit, like specifically like
Speaker 1: peach and apricot. Right, Yeah, absolutely, And I would say
Speaker 1: I think it's these This brewery does a lot of
Speaker 1: great fruited beers, but there's no fruit in this beer.
Speaker 1: It's all the hops, all hops. I'm like, I literally
Speaker 1: going to do a deep dive on this after we
Speaker 1: hit and stop on this episode, because I almost can't
Speaker 1: believe that there's not actually fruit in here. But on
Speaker 1: the label it only has hops listed out. It's just
Speaker 1: it's a New Zealand there. They're New Zealand hops. I
Speaker 1: guess I wonder if the New Zealand hops have like
Speaker 1: special flavor varieties that we can't get here the sting
Speaker 1: Can you go to New Zealand and just like eat
Speaker 1: the hops right off the vine and it's like you're
Speaker 1: eating an apricat or something. I don't want to, although
Speaker 1: I don't think they'll they'll let us in, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this beer is so sticking good, so delicious, so satisfying,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, this is now on my
Speaker 1: top Favorites list. It's the perfect balance between sweet and
Speaker 1: the bitterness that you get from the hops. There's so
Speaker 1: much juice, but it doesn't get too sweet, Like as
Speaker 1: soon as you taste it, you think, oh, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be too sweet, but then it like it kind
Speaker 1: of like drops off and it switches to kind of
Speaker 1: like that hoppy bitterness. And so they've they've somehow struck
Speaker 1: the perfect balance. This is one of the best, certainly
Speaker 1: the best beer we've had all year. Well, shoot, yeah,
Speaker 1: we just had trillium actually, so maybe we've had some
Speaker 1: awesolin ears. It's right up there with them. So yeah,
Speaker 1: if you happen to see this one in your local
Speaker 1: bottle shop Woodland Pursuit by Humble Forger, we would highly
Speaker 1: recommend that you pick this one up. It's fantastic. But Joel,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it, buddy. For this episode, listeners can
Speaker 1: find our show notes up on our website at how
Speaker 1: to money dot com. That's right, and next Wednesday we'll
Speaker 1: resume kind of more of our normal format, doing a
Speaker 1: deep dive on a specific personal finance topic. We can
Speaker 1: only interview each other so many times, I don't know
Speaker 1: we could do on a repeat. We did it twice
Speaker 1: Groundhog Day stop would be all right. Well, that's gonna
Speaker 1: do it, Matt. Until next time. Best friends out, Best
Speaker 1: friends out,