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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Matt's and that's right. The day has come. It is

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Speaker 1: now time for Joel's money origin story. That's right, buddy.

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Speaker 1: Today on the show, it's all about me time. Hooray. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking forward to a chat and and kind

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Speaker 1: of diving into some of my money backstory. You got

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Speaker 1: to tackle yours last week and it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. I learned a little bit, I hope our

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Speaker 1: listeners learned a lot. And yeah, this week it's my

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Speaker 1: turn in the hot seat. Does everything feel backwards because

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Speaker 1: I kind of announced the actual title of this episode.

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Speaker 1: You brought us back from the break with the music

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Speaker 1: left his right and up is down exactly, which makes

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Speaker 1: me think of those bicycles were like they're engineered so

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Speaker 1: that if you steer left, it actually goes right. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen these it's mind cluster where like you literally

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Speaker 1: can't write it and it takes I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: like tons of practice. I think it would take a

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Speaker 1: long time to retrain your brain exactly, because what you've

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Speaker 1: been doing something for so long, it's it feels really awkward.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes just a small thing like who introduces the podcast episode. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but before we get to my money story, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot I think we're gonna cover. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really it's up to you, so we'll

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Speaker 1: see where it goes. But I wanted to mention one

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Speaker 1: thing quickly that one of my friends, his name is Brennan.

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Speaker 1: He goes by the Moniker budget dog, Instagram and Twitter. Yeah. Literally,

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Speaker 1: I asked him how how he got that name, and

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Speaker 1: he was like sitting there with his dog while he

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Speaker 1: came up with it. So it just like really was

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Speaker 1: like budgets exactly. So he's a he's a good dude

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Speaker 1: and he's doing a lot of great work with a

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Speaker 1: d A W G. Sadly, no, he did not, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's how it goes. But he mentioned the other day

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Speaker 1: on Twitter and I've not heard of this company before,

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Speaker 1: a company to help you roll over your old four

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Speaker 1: oh one k and it's called Capitalize. And I looked

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Speaker 1: into this because I was like, all right, Branda knows

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about. What is this thing? And it

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Speaker 1: is this cool? It's actually Capitalized was named one of

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Speaker 1: times top and mentions one and it is this site

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Speaker 1: where you get to go roll over your four oh

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Speaker 1: one K for free into an IRA. And there are

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of reasons to do this, Like we

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Speaker 1: could get into all the nuance. We're not going to

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Speaker 1: because that's not what this episode is about, but we'll

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Speaker 1: link to it in the show notes. And it's just

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Speaker 1: one of those cools. Yeah, if you have an old

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Speaker 1: retirement accounts sitting somewhere else and you want to move

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Speaker 1: it to a place with lower fees and better fund options,

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Speaker 1: a place I Capitalized is gonna help you do that.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna handle the paperwork, which is like, for me,

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Speaker 1: the most annoying part usually, And so yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: it seems like this cool new service, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to mention it. Will will again put a link to

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Speaker 1: the show notes. And yeah, if you if you're one

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Speaker 1: of those people who's like dreading doing the annoying intricacies

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Speaker 1: of first I'll find it's something as dorky as you know,

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Speaker 1: rolling an account over from a four one K into

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Speaker 1: a new I RA technical, yes, yeah, but ultimately not

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Speaker 1: that hard. But Capitalized makes it even even. Also first

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Speaker 1: rule problems, right, like are you over here Joe complaining

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Speaker 1: that you've got too many four own ks and previous

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Speaker 1: employers that you have to keep up with. Oh what

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Speaker 1: a hard life that is from somebody who's never had

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Speaker 1: a four week Right, But we did say simplification is

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Speaker 1: a huge part of making personal finances better for people.

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Speaker 1: And if this helps you simplify things, combine everything into

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Speaker 1: accounts with fewer companies and and and also reduce you

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Speaker 1: can get it that drag of fees at the same time,

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Speaker 1: Like it's well your time. If you're with a provider who, yeah,

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Speaker 1: does not give you the best investing options, you know,

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Speaker 1: I will say if you are able to maintain those

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Speaker 1: accounts and if the investing options are equivalent or similar

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Speaker 1: across the board, there's there's no magic to combining all

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Speaker 1: your accounts into a single giant account. Right, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: earn the same types of returns. Uh, If you've got

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars that's spread across three accounts, the

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Speaker 1: same returns that you'd see if all of that money

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Speaker 1: was just in a singular account. But like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's more of like a mental thing. And if that

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Speaker 1: helps you as an individual, then go for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as long as they're in the same fun choices right,

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Speaker 1: uh for sure, So yeah, we'll link to it in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. But Matt Let's mentioned the beer that

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Speaker 1: we're having on this episode. We're drinking a beer called

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Speaker 1: Woodland Pursuit. It's a New England I p a from

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Speaker 1: the folks at Humble Forager and I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 1: drinking this one while we share my money origin story tonight. Right,

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Speaker 1: and I picked this one out especially for you, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about why. I guess at the end of

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Speaker 1: the episode. Sounds good. Well, like last Wednesday's episode, it is, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's time for your listeners to really get to know

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Speaker 1: us on a deeper level. Last week, yeah, you got

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Speaker 1: to hear my money story and the experiences that impacted

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Speaker 1: how it is that I view money. And now it's

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Speaker 1: Joel's turn, pailing from the Pacific Northwest, weighing in a

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Speaker 1: like a h eighty pounds maybe okay any nine? Also

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Speaker 1: the very you're the tallest half Norwegian, but yeah, you

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Speaker 1: were raised here in the South. My best friend, Joel,

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Speaker 1: ours guard. He uh might might have been the cheapest

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Speaker 1: guy I've ever met, which is why I think we

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Speaker 1: really hit it off when we first met around a

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Speaker 1: decade ago. I think it also helps a ton our

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Speaker 1: wives hit off as well. But I had never met

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Speaker 1: anyone cheaper than me, and that's saying a lot. And

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Speaker 1: it's no wonder that we were destined to start a

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Speaker 1: personal finance podcast together. There truly is so much that

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Speaker 1: already know about you. But like any good story, you

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. And I realized that I don't

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Speaker 1: know what your first money memory is, and so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you have a clear moment when you grasped the

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Speaker 1: concept of money? Also, did Joys prefer the Kirkland signature

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Speaker 1: pizza even as a toddler or there was that a

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Speaker 1: more of an acquired taste. Yeah, now that was later

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Speaker 1: in life. Really, that was more more recent occurrence. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and I will say, actually I talked about this

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Speaker 1: recently on Twitter with somebody how Little Caesar's raised the

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Speaker 1: prices of their pizza that inflation robbers meeting the road.

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Speaker 1: But like, it's too short to really eat cheap pizza

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Speaker 1: too frequently, so I usually spring forth the nicer stuff.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess when it comes to first money memories,

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Speaker 1: probably first money memory is my parents had like this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this cardboard cut out with like little dimes and nickels

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Speaker 1: and pennies and dollars. Did you ever have one of

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Speaker 1: those where it's like it's like a little learning way

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Speaker 1: to learn about money. And so I remember seeing that,

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Speaker 1: and it was this tangible thing where I got to

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Speaker 1: group them and do additional subtraction and kind of get

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Speaker 1: to figure out how money works. Okay, I do remember

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Speaker 1: doing that in elementary school, like the same cardboard, like

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Speaker 1: really to learn time and stuff. So your parents like

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Speaker 1: stole it from the elemarry exactly. Actually you preat your

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Speaker 1: older sister probably ganked it and you got to take

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Speaker 1: a look at it. She was a bad one, you know.

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot from that. So yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that was probably the most early memories I had is

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Speaker 1: kind of playing with those physical cardboard cut out of money.

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Speaker 1: But but then I think the kids had g I Joe's,

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Speaker 1: and Joe had dollar bills on the shelf all lined up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily know. I was not like roomed to be

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Speaker 1: some sort of personal finance nerd. But I think the

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Speaker 1: the other thing that sticks out in my mind when

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the earliest memories I have of like

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Speaker 1: actual money was when my parents I had to have

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Speaker 1: conversations about in particular, the shoes that I wanted to buy.

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Speaker 1: I was like super into the fancy basketball shoes of

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Speaker 1: the day, the Scotty Pippens, the Michael Jordan's, all the

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Speaker 1: all the good stuff that Charles Barkley's. They all had

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Speaker 1: great shoes. Man, speaking of investments, if only you had

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Speaker 1: gotten a couple of pairs of those that never worn

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Speaker 1: them in the box, you, I mean, you'd be a

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Speaker 1: multi millionaire thousands at least, right, Yeah, So that's a

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Speaker 1: good point. Uh, But yeah, having there was always a

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Speaker 1: conversation between my parents and I because they said, listen,

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Speaker 1: here's a limit on what we're willing to spend four

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Speaker 1: shoes for you. If you want, we can get you

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Speaker 1: these like rebox and you're gonna and you can wear those.

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Speaker 1: But if you want those nicer shoes, you you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to bring some of your own birthday or or

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Speaker 1: Christmas money to the table in order to make it happen.

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Speaker 1: And that was the first time I think I realized

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Speaker 1: trade offs and how important tradeoffs are when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about personal finances. And sometimes occasionally I did opt for

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Speaker 1: the fancy shoes. I put my money where my mouth

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Speaker 1: was and I was like, this is worth it. And

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Speaker 1: I still remember that pair of Scotty Pippins and they

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Speaker 1: were worth it. Uh it felt so good on your feet,

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Speaker 1: they were so good. But most of the time I

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Speaker 1: opted to say I'm gonna get to get the free

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Speaker 1: shoes that mom and dad are gonna buy me. But

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Speaker 1: that's one of those, I think first memories I had

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Speaker 1: where it was like I have a decision and I

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Speaker 1: have money that I can choose whether or not this

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Speaker 1: is worth it or not to me. Yeah. Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean I love what your parents did there as well,

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Speaker 1: because essentially what they're doing is matching you right like

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Speaker 1: they're kind of meeting meaning you. I don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: how much they're willing to, you know, bring to the table,

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Speaker 1: but the ability for them to kind of incentivize you

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Speaker 1: to alter your spending, your behavior a little bit, because

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Speaker 1: you could have taken out money and been like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really want those shoes, and then you go blow

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Speaker 1: the rest of the money on your say a dreamcast

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I remember you buying from the yard sailor

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Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, because I love when parents are

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Speaker 1: able to mimic the different types of patterns and behaviors

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Speaker 1: that we're going to encounter in real life. And so this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love that your parents did that, and

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Speaker 1: I look forward to being able to do that with

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Speaker 1: you know, with my kids. I'm sure you you're looking

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Speaker 1: forward to doing the same as our as our kids

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Speaker 1: get older, So kind of moving along. You know. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that I think is really impressive about

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Speaker 1: you is the number of different, like different jobs that

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Speaker 1: I've heard you had while you're in high school. Like

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Speaker 1: I only worked at the local golf course, but you

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Speaker 1: had a quite varied work history. So yeah, tell us

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Speaker 1: about that in specifically, did you have a favorite job

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Speaker 1: that you held? Okay, so yeah, I had a bunch

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Speaker 1: of different jobs growing up, and and some of them

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Speaker 1: before the age where you're legally allowed to work just

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Speaker 1: stuff in the neighborhood, like mowing lawns, right, And that

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Speaker 1: was like literally my first introduction to making my own money,

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Speaker 1: and that was empowering. And my dad was just a

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Speaker 1: big help in helping me get that business off the ground,

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Speaker 1: Like had just a few yards in the neighborhood, and

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Speaker 1: he was always willing to help me on a Saturday,

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Speaker 1: which is huge, Like he wasn't just like, alright, go

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Speaker 1: pound the pavements on. He was like, I know, he

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Speaker 1: was dead tired from working all week, and he still

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Speaker 1: came with me to mo those lawns, which awesome. I yeah,

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Speaker 1: major props to my pops. But uh yeah. Then, at

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Speaker 1: at fourteen, the earliest age you could start working in

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Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, I started working at Chick fil A,

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Speaker 1: and right across the street from my high school was

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Speaker 1: the easiest place to get to, so I could walk

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Speaker 1: straight across and work for three hours before I would

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Speaker 1: go home for the evening. And I still remember my

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Speaker 1: starting wage five dollars and fifteen cents an hour, which

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Speaker 1: was the bare minimum you were allowed to get paid,

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Speaker 1: the far cry from what they're paying today. But I

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Speaker 1: think my favorite job overall in those years between, like

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Speaker 1: you know, growing up and then and then getting to

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Speaker 1: to college was working at the Eckerd Photo Lab. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was just like a fun job where I was

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Speaker 1: like getting to interact with people who had just got

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Speaker 1: a vacation and they turned in their photos. And do

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Speaker 1: people even still do that anymore? I don't think so,

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Speaker 1: there's not like a photo person, well they do. I

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Speaker 1: mean they've got the printers, but you just sent in.

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Speaker 1: They don't bring in the roles of film exactly. They

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Speaker 1: sent it in from their phone. But me, I was

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Speaker 1: like manning the machine and changing changing tones. I got

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Speaker 1: like an old school version of photoshop. And then I

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Speaker 1: would get to talk to people about the photos I

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Speaker 1: had seen, because because you've seen it and you kind

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Speaker 1: of know who's about to walk into exactly because you've

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Speaker 1: been staring at pictures of them. Yeah, I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: Rome looked like it was fun. Huh, how about it? Like, dude,

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Speaker 1: stop being a creed? So that was a fun trying

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Speaker 1: not to be the Robin Williams from One Hour Photos.

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Speaker 1: But um, I mean, so you just enjoyed that. That

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Speaker 1: was just a I mean it sounds like it was

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Speaker 1: fun from a social standpoint, and knowing you obviously that

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Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, just get the way

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Speaker 1: I got to interact with people was probably the most

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Speaker 1: fun part of that. Did you did you ever have

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Speaker 1: like a really amazing boss or manager? Um? Who, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I feel that in the past when I

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Speaker 1: look back to some of the different folks who influenced me,

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Speaker 1: they were always really good teachers. Uh, And so for me,

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that's something that would stand out to

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Speaker 1: me is the ability to not just do the job

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Speaker 1: and get some get some stuff done, but the ability

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Speaker 1: to grow as an individual and to learn. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: if you had some different jobs where you had an

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Speaker 1: individual that stood out to you. I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: always been lucky to work for awesome people for the

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Speaker 1: most part. Like there are a couple of bosses I

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Speaker 1: can point back to and be like, not my favorite,

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Speaker 1: but but for the most manager you know, they were.

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Speaker 1: They were great, honestly, And it's one of those situations

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Speaker 1: where when you're fourteen fifteen and you're completely immature, you

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Speaker 1: need someone who's going to give you like a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of grace as they're kind of helping you grow

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Speaker 1: been to an adult. And that was just a great

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Speaker 1: learning experience for me having a job early on. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think the managers there were super helpful

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Speaker 1: and it was a great experience. I don't know, probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite boss was was at the radio station I

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Speaker 1: worked at for like fourteen fifteen years, and just because

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Speaker 1: he was such an encourager and he was such a

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Speaker 1: believer in your talent, and abilities, and he was always

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Speaker 1: encouraging not not just me, everybody in in the building

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Speaker 1: about what they could do. And I remember reading something

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Speaker 1: actually from a friend recently who she she is a

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Speaker 1: writer and she writes all the time, and she points

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Speaker 1: back to pointing back recently to this high school teacher

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Speaker 1: who told her you're a great writer and like you

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Speaker 1: can do this, and that's still is in her mind,

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Speaker 1: motivating her to write to this day. And I think interesting,

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Speaker 1: I look back to some of those conversations when I

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Speaker 1: was working at the radio station and my boss saying like,

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Speaker 1: you got this, you got talent, and like you need

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Speaker 1: to keep working at this, but like I like what

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Speaker 1: you're doing, and that goes a long way in helping

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Speaker 1: foster someone's career. And if you can be that person,

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Speaker 1: I think to tell somebody that that they're on the

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Speaker 1: right path, or that you like what they're doing, you

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Speaker 1: never know how far those words of encouragement are gonna go.

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Speaker 1: That's funny. Yet, as you were saying that about your

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Speaker 1: friend who was a writer, it made me think back

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Speaker 1: to when I was in college. One of my professor

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Speaker 1: what I was taking advertising classes. I remember her specifically

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Speaker 1: talking about photography because essentially we had to come up

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Speaker 1: with our own little campaign, and she was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this this is a pretty great concept. You know, the headline,

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Speaker 1: like the copy is great, but these images are awesome. Uh,

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Speaker 1: She's like, have you ever thought about photography? And thinking back,

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Speaker 1: I realized that maybe that may have been what kind

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Speaker 1: of pointed me in the direction of focusing more on

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Speaker 1: photography as I got into graphic design and all always

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Speaker 1: had a more photographic lean to it, and then obviously

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Speaker 1: got into photography as well. And we are actually going

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Speaker 1: to talk more about, you know, your history there at

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Speaker 1: the radio station. I think I'm gonna have a question

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Speaker 1: maybe about the same boss who you mentioned perhaps, But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that though, like before we get

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Speaker 1: to that stage of your life, you know, I think,

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Speaker 1: like here on the show, you've only really just touched

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Speaker 1: on the fact that, like, it wasn't all smooth sailing

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Speaker 1: at home as a kid when it came to money. Uh,

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Speaker 1: do you want to share know what I've heard you

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Speaker 1: describe before as perhaps your most pivotal money moment. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think this is really when if there

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Speaker 1: is a inflection point in my personal finance trajectory it

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Speaker 1: was growing up age basically twelve or thirteen, when my

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Speaker 1: parents ended up filing for bankruptcy. And at the same

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Speaker 1: time after that, the our car got repossessed, and it

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Speaker 1: was one of the things where we knew it was

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Speaker 1: going to happen, we just didn't know when. And one

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Speaker 1: day we were expecting it to happen, and it didn't happen,

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, and then it was gone one morning. And

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Speaker 1: it was one of those things where I just remember

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Speaker 1: as a kid, was kind of like looming over our heads.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time it was money was a

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Speaker 1: constant source of friction in the house. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I was also at this important age where

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Speaker 1: it left this indelible mark on me where it's my

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Speaker 1: younger sister, she was a little bit younger than me,

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Speaker 1: maybe couldn't not not quite old enough to realize exactly

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Speaker 1: what was going on. My older sister was in high school,

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Speaker 1: she was like dating and working, and I was just

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Speaker 1: at this like hyper impressional age where that left a

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Speaker 1: major mark and I think has probably still contributed to

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Speaker 1: how how I view money today and just how maybe

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Speaker 1: how intentional I am with it. Uh, But yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was that was the point. It was that it was

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Speaker 1: that age and it was those things happening in my

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Speaker 1: family's life that made me say, like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I want to be good with money. You know, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I want to be good enough with money

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Speaker 1: where I don't ever have to argue about money with

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Speaker 1: my spouse. Um. And it's not that you know, Emily

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Speaker 1: and I don't still have money disagreements from time to time,

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Speaker 1: but it's one of those things where we don't want

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Speaker 1: to have get to the point where we're not sure

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Speaker 1: if we're going to have enough, and that leads to

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Speaker 1: conflict or us having to do things that we don't

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Speaker 1: want to do in order just to secure more money. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's definitely the probably the most pivotal point

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Speaker 1: in my life when it comes to how I think,

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Speaker 1: in view and do money in personal finance. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean we we always are going to have disagreements oftentimes

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Speaker 1: with our partners when it comes to money, but you

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Speaker 1: just don't necessarily when all of your conversations to be negative.

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Speaker 1: Right like, like hopefully you all are in a position

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Speaker 1: where you can sit down and when you talk about money,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a very good conversation. It's this thing that

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Speaker 1: where maybe you're cracking out, you know, a craft beer

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Speaker 1: or bottle of line. You're having this meeting with your

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Speaker 1: partner because you are wanting to look ahead at the

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Speaker 1: different goals that you share or that you're you know

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Speaker 1: that might be looming on the horizon. But you know, I, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's hard to fully understand and you know,

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Speaker 1: the impact of an event like that, like as we're

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Speaker 1: growing up, even you know, when decades have passed and

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Speaker 1: we have the benefit of hindsight, do you ever wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: what would have happened if that repo had had never happened?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that maybe instead you would have been

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Speaker 1: kind of like spend thrift Joel, Like there would have

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Speaker 1: been this alter ego honestly bizarro Joel probably think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I do think so. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: really think about it like that very often, but I

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Speaker 1: do think that left such a mark that I am

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Speaker 1: a different person because of It'd be a sneaker head,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think, yeah, maybe maybe I would be

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Speaker 1: one of those guys spending all his money on fancy sneakers,

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Speaker 1: spend more on shoes than I do yes, But I

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Speaker 1: also I don't think of it as this negative experience

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Speaker 1: that I would go back and change. Even though at

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Speaker 1: the time it was difficult, I feel like what it's

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Speaker 1: led to has been something really good and yees. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think of it as something that I want

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Speaker 1: to go back in a race. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't that doesn't mean it was easy while it

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Speaker 1: was happening. Sure, it's not something that you would wish

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Speaker 1: that that you're planning to happen to your family, you know,

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Speaker 1: it to your kids. All right. So I feel like

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Speaker 1: we've kind of covered young Joel. We're gonna get to

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Speaker 1: a slightly older Joel. We're gonna get to Joel as

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Speaker 1: he entered adulthood. And I've got several other questions, including

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Speaker 1: some question about college, and we actually get to that

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Speaker 1: right after this break. All right, so we are back.

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Speaker 1: We're doing a special deep dive episode on Joel's money

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Speaker 1: origin story. Uh, and Joel, you just shared the experience

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Speaker 1: of having a family car repossessed, but ultimately that that

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Speaker 1: wasn't a decision that you yourself made, right, it happened

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Speaker 1: to you. You were kind of more in the passenger

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Speaker 1: seat not literally. I was not the one who bought

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Speaker 1: the car exactly. You. I did not do finance. It

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Speaker 1: was you were more in a passive position, I guess

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Speaker 1: is what I'm getting at here. Um, But while you

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Speaker 1: were in college, you actively made a decision that ended

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Speaker 1: up having a lasting impact on your finances. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about that? Sure? Yes, I mean so, while

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Speaker 1: I was in college the first two years, I ended

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Speaker 1: up going to like a private school in South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was the best place for me

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Speaker 1: at the time for the first two years of school.

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Speaker 1: But it was one of those things where I realized

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Speaker 1: halfway through, wait a second, I'm taking on I'm taking

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Speaker 1: on debt to go to the school I got. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately I got a lot of great scholarships, but still

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Speaker 1: I was at the at two years into into college.

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Speaker 1: Private school. Yeah, cost a lot of money at twelve

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Speaker 1: grand and student debt. And probably a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just laughed when they heard, because they're like, that is

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Speaker 1: nothing that that's like basically that's like books for me exactly,

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Speaker 1: And and a lot of people would feel that way,

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Speaker 1: and especially right now, I get it, like the price

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Speaker 1: of education has skyrocketed. Of course, in the last what

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Speaker 1: eighteen years, but it's at the same time for me,

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Speaker 1: I said, why why am I year and can I

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Speaker 1: accomplish the same the same goal what I want? Can

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Speaker 1: I get what I want at another school where maybe

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Speaker 1: it's free. And the cool thing about the state of

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Speaker 1: Georgia and a lot of other states have something similar.

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Speaker 1: They have this thing called the Hope Scholarship where if

431
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 1: you had over a three point o g p A

432
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 1: in high school, you were able to go to college

433
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: for free in state and in the in state universities.

434
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: And so I transferred back and ended up getting my

435
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: last two years of education for free because of that.

436
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,439
Speaker 1: And I was living at home and working at the

437
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,680
Speaker 1: same time. So it was one of those things where

438
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm really glad I made that choice. Not

439
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: adding more student loan pain to that, to that bucket

440
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: load of debt is is something I'm happy I avoided totally.

441
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 1: And let's be honest too, like there's a good chance

442
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: of you're not getting out in two more years. You

443
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 1: probably would have been on that five year playing off

444
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: of that private school. No, it's interesting. Actually switching back

445
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: was one of the things where I lost a couple

446
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 1: of credits, and so I had i'd work even harder,

447
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 1: but I'd already been taking like eighteen nineteen hours, and

448
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 1: so it kind of put me back on the track

449
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 1: to like, all right, you still got to take sixteen

450
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: seventeen hours every semester. A couple of them didn't transfer,

451
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: but it was still worth it, and god, well, you

452
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: know what. Like what I really appreciate, though, is the

453
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: fact that, like, you were willing to make this serious

454
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: change to your life, like once you realize that things

455
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 1: weren't painting out. Because I believe that that most college

456
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 1: students in your position, I think they would have just

457
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: stuck around and and wrote it out while racking up

458
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: that debt. I feel like that's what I would have done, Like,

459
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: because at that point in your life, you're surrounded by friends.

460
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: You see sort of the trajectory of everyone. And for me, like,

461
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: at one point, I thought about changing majors, and I

462
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: knew that that was going to mean an additional year

463
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: or two, and I thought, no way, Like, I can't,

464
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: I can't do that. Hey, I didn't want to. I

465
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 1: didn't have the money on hand because I was running

466
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 1: out of scholarship. But be all my friends were graduating

467
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: and so there for me, there was almost like this

468
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: social pressure and that's actually kind of surprising, I guess,

469
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: because you are a very social dude. But even still

470
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: you're able to combat that. You were able to fight

471
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: those pressures. A lot of my friends actually were seniors

472
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: that year and I was graduating, so they were leaving,

473
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 1: and I was like, I guess, and I mean, why not,

474
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: because yeah, when your friend base is leaving your right,

475
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 1: that kind of helps make that decision a little bit easier,

476
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 1: got it. But but I will say, yeah, I think

477
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 1: that you're Yeah, you can't credit that fully. You're able

478
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: to piggyback off of the fact that you had a

479
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 1: bunch of friends who are graduating, Like they're graduating time

480
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: for me to get out of here. It's a piece

481
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: out as well. Yeah, for sure, And that was definitely.

482
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: That was definitely part of it and made that decision easier. Yes,

483
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that, like you said,

484
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 1: a lot of high school students all have young adults

485
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: going into college first couple of years, they're oblivious to

486
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: the student loan that they might be taking it on.

487
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: I think they're becoming less oblivious. I think it's become

488
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: such a problem that they can't avoid knowing what's happening

489
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: to them. But for a long time, a lot of

490
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: people in you know, just a little bit younger than

491
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: we are, have been kind of fed the belief that

492
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: a college education at whatever cost is going to be

493
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: worth it. And now people are being forced to challenge

494
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: that assumption a little bit more. And I think it's

495
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 1: a good thing, because it's not that we think college

496
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: is a bad thing, Like I would go over and

497
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 1: do it again for myself. But at the same time,

498
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: you have to weigh the risk and the reward, and

499
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: you have to say doing a responsible manner because if

500
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: you don't, it's not a good decision. And you want

501
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 1: to make sure that whatever education you're receiving is going

502
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: to be put to good use in that the debt,

503
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: the potential debtload that you're taking on, that you minimize it,

504
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: and that it propels you to hire earnings. Nice. Yeah,

505
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: and you also share that you're saving money by living

506
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: at home. I think that is such an underrated way

507
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: to do college, right, because, like you said, those first

508
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: two years undergrads are oblivious. I mean literally my first

509
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: two years I changed schools like within the college both.

510
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: I mean I did it. Literally, I think every single

511
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: year I was in college, I was in a different

512
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: school because I thought, oh, first I'm gonna be a

513
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 1: science major. Oh no, that I don't like chemistry. That's

514
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: not working out. And so now I'm gonna be in

515
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: the business school. I'm in terry. Uh, And you bounce around,

516
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: and I mean the first two years you know, granted

517
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: some of those credits did count, but you you have

518
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: no idea what you're doing. That's what those first two

519
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: years afore though, some of that trial and error, absolutely,

520
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: but figuring out what you're interested. What better way to

521
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: uh experience some of that trial and a than to

522
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: be paying very little money by going to a local

523
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: community college. Yes, we are huge proponents of folks doing that. So, yeah,

524
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: you graduated, you kind of you know, started to grow

525
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: up a little bit, move on with your life before

526
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: we started our own little company here, you know, with

527
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: this podcast, Like I pictured you as what i'd call

528
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: like a company man. Um. Not that you had a

529
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: good well you didn't have to wear like a suit

530
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: or anything, right, but that's actually part of the reason

531
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: and a terrible reason. But why I chose to go

532
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: work in radio was because you could wear jeans and

533
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: flip flops, and literally that was half of my reasons. Really,

534
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: you don't have to dress up to do that. I feel, Yeah, Well,

535
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: a lifestyle and what it feels like to go work

536
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: for a company that have that has a lot of

537
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: weight when it comes to the decisions. I mean literally,

538
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: when I was looking to apply to different advertising agencies,

539
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: like that was also something I kept in mind as well,

540
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: because actually I can't remember if Madman was out at

541
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: that point, but even still the modern advertising agency it was,

542
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: it was still kind of like a cooler place still work.

543
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: I can't drinking old fashioned on the job. I'm out

544
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: of here, uh, than like an accounting firm or something

545
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: like that. But the ability to work in a creative

546
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: department and just where jeans and a hoodie was definitely

547
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: something that was appealing to me. Uh And so it's

548
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: not fancy in that way, but your job specifically, like

549
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: you had nice company benefits, like a four one K

550
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: Like I just joked earlier about how that's not something

551
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: I ever had access to, but you did. You had

552
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: a match. I've never had anything like that up until

553
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: very recently here with our company. So my question for you,

554
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: did you start investing? Did you start maxing out that

555
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: four one k right away? Like, how did you know

556
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: that that was a smart move to make? How did

557
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: you learn what to do? Sure? Yet, No, I did

558
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: not start maxing out that way I was. I was

559
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: really I knew heard it folks, when Joel first got

560
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: his first job, he was not taking advantage of the

561
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: company match. No, well, no, I was getting the match. Okay,

562
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: that was the one thing I knew not to screw

563
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: up on. There you go. But only because literally the

564
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: job that my first job that that I got, or

565
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: not my first job, but the second job that I

566
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: got that I was at fourteen fifteen years was we

567
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: talked a lot about personal finance that that we've worked

568
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: on a consumer advice radio show, And so I knew

569
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: enough to not miss out on the company match. But

570
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: I had still not yet my ears had not been

571
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: perked up to the ideas of financial independence and the

572
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: idea of like, well, okay, I'm gonna get if I

573
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: saved ten percent for uh forty five years of my life,

574
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: then I'll be able to retire. That was still kind

575
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: of the way I was thinking at that point in life,

576
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: could have had that old school mindset. Yeah. Plus my

577
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: my salary was mini school at the time, so maxing

578
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: and out was I wouldn't have been able to live. No,

579
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: it was it was like not even close to an option.

580
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: So getting the match was enough of a sacrifice for

581
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: me to build and make. But later on, as like

582
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: my I got more in tune with what money can

583
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: do if it's invested early enough, I did begin to

584
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: uh pour more and more into my fore own k,

585
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: max out my wrath eye right then eventually max out

586
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: my four own K. And so it's one of those

587
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: things where I was like, yes, okay, but I wish

588
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: somebody had challenged me to do that sooner, had said,

589
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: you know what, the matches gray, but you can do more.

590
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 1: And so I think that's why I get excited, especially

591
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: when we hear from younger having money listeners and I'm

592
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: doing it already, and I'm like, man, if only you

593
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: have four I had that same information, that same challenge,

594
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: that same knowledge that you have like I, you know,

595
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: and and and part of it really is not just

596
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: I can't blame it on a lack of knowledge. It

597
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: really was just a lack of intentionality and um and so. Yeah,

598
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: the fact that they have all those things working together,

599
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 1: I'm super impressed. Well, I mean, I will say, just

600
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: reaching financial independence it had a branding problem basically in

601
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: the past ten years, it really has come a long

602
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: way as being you know, as as foaksing retirement as

603
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: something that you do when once you hit fifteen, nine

604
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: and a half or sixty five years old, where you

605
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: sit on the you know, the rocker on the front porch,

606
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 1: you got the gold wash, you're sitting there, you no

607
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: longer have to work. That has always been the view

608
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: typically of retirement, of reaching a point of financial freedom.

609
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: But over the past ten years we have seen a

610
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: dramatic shift in what it means to be financially independent.

611
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean waiting until you're really old to completely

612
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: pull the plug on working. It can mean gradually, over time,

613
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: making that transition, taking on different jobs that you want,

614
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: just the ability to have options, sucking away enough so

615
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: you can quit your day job and go do your

616
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: own thing and start your own business. I mean that. Yeah,

617
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think the the nuance in

618
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 1: this space has grown dramatically, and so many great voices

619
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: have come up to say like, no, you can't go

620
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: this path, or you can go this path, and so

621
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: it's opened up people's eyes to say, oh wait, there

622
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: are a lot of different directions I can go, and

623
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: it's not just the one path that has kind of

624
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: been the traditional exactly. Yeah, the traditional path exactly. Okay,

625
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: So real quick, once you got that first decent paying job,

626
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: what were you splurging on before craft beer? Right? So

627
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: on every interview we bring guests on and we asked

628
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: them what their craft beer equivalent is. What was your

629
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: craft beer equivalent before craft I think it was probably

630
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: baseball games. I was going to Braids games, okay, yeah,

631
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where again I didn't

632
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: I didn't have much money, especially in those those early

633
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: working gears, and I was able to score Braves tickets

634
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: for super cheap because they played downtown. Almost nobody went

635
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: to the games. I could ride my bike over there

636
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: and I would go to games and get out of

637
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: there for five bucks or ten bucks if I bought

638
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: some food. I mean, there was just all these ways

639
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: to go to Braves games for super cheap that don't

640
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: exist now. And so I feel like it's like but

641
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: you weren't from an old time, right, and so you

642
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: weren't spending money on it was it was there something

643
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: I was going consistently, all right, So and so I

644
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: would go to small purchase done consistently. Yeah, I would

645
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: go games a year and those were those were good

646
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: old days. Now I make it to one, maybe two.

647
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: I didn't make it to the World Series, of course,

648
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: like I told everybody, that's right, and you didn't. I

649
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: guess we haven't talked about this yet on the show

650
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: You Got, You Got, You scored yourself some of that

651
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: World Series swag. I got a shirt for Christmas, yes,

652
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: but yeah, that was that was kind of what I

653
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: viewed as my sports for the time. I was like,

654
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm all, I'm gonna go to as many Braves games

655
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 1: as I want. You're the Braves game guy. Yep, yeah, totally. Okay,

656
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: So you've kind of alluded to this. Many folks know

657
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: Clark Howard. You know, he was a nationally syndicated consumer

658
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: advocate radio host, and like you said, he talks a

659
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: lot about personal finance. And so I'm assuming you learned

660
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: a ton while working on the show. There's a lot

661
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: of different concepts, a lot of different principles that I'm

662
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: sure you heard reiterated on the show constantly. But so

663
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: my question for you, though, is like, do you have

664
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: any specific lessons that you learned, like not necessarily from

665
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: the show, but just from being around Clark Howard himself

666
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: that you different lessons that you picked up from observing

667
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: him in real life. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And by

668
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: the way, that the person I was talking about earlier

669
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: on The Boss who influencely was not Clark, he was

670
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: actually the program director Pete Spriggs, who was Okay, it

671
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: still is a phenomenal human being. But there you go.

672
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: I could have said many of the same things Clark

673
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: truly and and yes, um shout out to Pete. Yeah

674
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: he's awesome. Miss that guy. But he Clark is such

675
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: a generous guy and in every sense of the word,

676
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: and and he's like this positive influence I would say

677
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: on on everybody that he that he meets, like random

678
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: people at Costco, the way he treats them, or just

679
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: people somebody on the street, somebody has a flat tire,

680
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: Like he's the kind of guy who stops to help

681
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: change it, Like that's awesome. That's rare, especially in today's

682
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: and so I think what I learned from Clark was

683
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: the way you treat everybody matters and down to the

684
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: person who's checking at your groceries at the grocery store,

685
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: or the waitress or waiter when you're ordering food. And

686
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: uh so, I don't know, I think that goes a

687
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: long way. He was just this like incredible cocktail of

688
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: like optimism, kindness, and humility, and it just kind of, uh,

689
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: it's infectious. It makes you want to live in the

690
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: same way. And he's definitely that kind of guy. He's

691
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: one impressive dude, well especially considering I mean, we had

692
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: him on the show here last year. Now we can

693
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: link to that episode in our show notes, but we

694
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: talked about how he sold his first business when he

695
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: was very young. He was financially independent at a very

696
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: young age. Uh, and so you could easily see him

697
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: going in a direction that wouldn't lend itself to being

698
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: charitable not only with your money, but also how you

699
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: treat other people. So yeah, so I'll not note we're

700
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick rate. But after that, speaking of

701
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: financial independence, we're gonna talk a little bit more about that.

702
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about real estates. We'll get to all

703
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: of that right after this break. All right, we're back

704
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: from the break. We're gonna wrap this thing up here

705
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: before long. Yeah, get kicked me out of here. I

706
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: got got somewhere to be. I got somebody else to

707
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: talk to you. Uh yeah, no, literally nobody else to

708
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: talk to today. Just uh some episodes for to edit

709
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: and listen to. But let's talk about real estate specifically,

710
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: because I honestly can't remember how it is that you

711
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: got interested in investing in real estate. I know my story,

712
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: we talked about this last week. I remember how I had,

713
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, the seeds of real estate planted, but I

714
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: don't know how that came about for you. So can

715
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: you share, you know, how it is that you that

716
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: you first saw the light when it came to real estate. Okay,

717
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: so is gonna probably sound a little lame, But my

718
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: my mom super big into HDTV, Like she is probably

719
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: Joanna Gaines's biggest fan. She is, and she has. She

720
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: her and your dad. They didn't they go to Texas.

721
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: They went to wake up. They specifically stayed in a

722
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: property that she had renovated. Was that on? Like was

723
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: it an Airbnb? Yes? Okay, yes, I've got that thing

724
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: rakes in the cash and then she's not like, she's

725
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: not like Stoker level. But if she met her in person,

726
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: I think she might think she'd be that. She would

727
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: definitely recognized her on the street. Yes, but she's she'd

728
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: probably I don't know, she probably played cool. She probably would,

729
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: but for just starts sweating, gotta play it cool. And

730
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: but for me, I would say, HDTV not my favorite channel.

731
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: But there was this one show that would come on

732
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: and flip flop or something you know. It was called

733
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: Income Property and it was this host, Scott mcgillibrae. I

734
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: don't remember that one. Okay. So this guy used to

735
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: help people with their property turn it into like he would.

736
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: He would help them renovate it and turn it into

737
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: a cash a property that would cash flow even more.

738
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: And sometimes he would turn a single family home into

739
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: a duplex, or he would turn a duplex to a

740
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: nicer duplex or uh, there were all these different ways

741
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: he would suggest to make over your house in order

742
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: to make it more a cash flow and and and

743
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: and help it to make more money and be more valuable.

744
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: I like it. And I remember watching that show and

745
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so this is it's not just

746
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: like paint on walls and QT and something up Like

747
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: he's he's got this plan and he would always see

748
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: the numbers at the end and people would be raking

749
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: in more rent than he even assumed at the beginning,

750
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: so that he'd be like, all right, if you do

751
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: this into this duplex, you get twelve on each side,

752
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, they're getting fourteen

753
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: hunter on each side. And I was like, what how

754
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: do they They're They're killing it. And I think that

755
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: sparked the seed of like, wow, okay, you can create

756
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: something beautiful for somebody to live in and you can

757
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: make money at the same time. And uh. There were

758
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: certainly other touch points along the way. I mean, I

759
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: think getting into the Bigger Pockets podcast for a while,

760
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: which is is still a great one if you want

761
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: to begin investing in real estate. It's really like, yeah,

762
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: definitely one of the best ones that I would say, though,

763
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of sparked the beginning where I was like, Okay,

764
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: my mind started turning. Was that his name, yeah, Scott

765
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: g or J I don't know. So he was the

766
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: one that was like switching out, swapping out the garage

767
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: door before it was cool, but before all the other

768
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: publications had written about the fact that this one thing

769
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: will increase the curb appeal right allow your property to

770
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: return more. Yeah, he was, he was super smart. He

771
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: always did a good job with those rehynaults, and he

772
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: really offered a lot of good advice, and then he

773
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: would do a lot of the work because he was

774
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: also a contractor. And they were always just fun episodes.

775
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: I don't think that shows on anymore, but it was

776
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: one of those where if you went back to the

777
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: backlogs and watch them, you would learn a lot. Got it?

778
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: And so yes, I mean, so you've been investing in

779
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: real estate for a while now. At this point, I

780
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: feel like you have a lot on your plate. You've

781
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: got several properties that you yourself manage. You don't pay

782
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: for management, you don't. You know, that's for the birds.

783
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: You're you're getting all all that money, You're you're keeping

784
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: those expenses at a minimum. But you're you're also you're

785
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: wrapping up renovating your home. You've got this, you know,

786
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: the podcast. It's a full time job. You've got three kids.

787
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: Do do you foresee yourself continuing to buy additional properties

788
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: where's your head at as far as your investment property

789
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: portfolio moving forward? Yeah, I mean I think I do

790
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: see myself buying more properties, but I also see myself

791
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: going towards maybe easier ways to use the assets that

792
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: I have or the money that I'm making to make investments.

793
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: Because yeah, like we've talked about on the show, we

794
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: love investment properties and they have been great for for us.

795
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: They've been great for for me and my family to

796
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: grow net worth, to have monthly cash flow, and I

797
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: love that we they're right around the corner from us,

798
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: and many of which we have lived in before, and

799
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: so there's like this um cool element to investing where

800
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: you live and I love that. I love that part

801
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: of it, and I could see myself potentially buying more properties,

802
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: but like you said, like yeah, plates kind of kind

803
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: of fold these in these days, and if we want

804
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: to grow this business, then growing the rental property business

805
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: kind of takes a back seat. It's on the back burner.

806
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: And so I think if I did want to do that,

807
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: if I did want to go hard in that direction,

808
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: I would have to find some help when it comes

809
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: on the property management side. And I was gonna actually

810
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: suggest that because I just kind of knocked it, But

811
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: like that's the path that you go. I mean, you

812
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: get to a certain point and there's a certain scale

813
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: at which you can't handle it all yourself exactly, And

814
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: it does feel like it makes a little bit more

815
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: sense to have a manager, a management company, or an

816
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: individual who knows you how it does that you like

817
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: things to be maintained, the different kind of vendors who

818
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: you'd like to choose, and if you've got somebody on

819
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: your side who's got your back like that, I can

820
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: see that being incredibly valuable when it comes to freeing

821
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: up your time. So yeah, maybe, but I still I

822
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: love There's something I love about physical real estate, and

823
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's a fun investment in a

824
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 1: lot of ways. It also it has there's so many perks.

825
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: We've talked about them way too much on the show,

826
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: and you know, there's older episodes you can go to

827
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: dig into why we love it so much. But there's

828
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: also just this, yeah, this um, this tangible element that

829
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: I like about it. Whereas numbers on the screen have

830
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: a different effect, don't do it for you as as much,

831
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: not the same, right, like a four O one k

832
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: balance or like it's exciting to see those things grow.

833
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: But I think it's more exciting for me to buy

834
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: a property that I'm like, oh, this is undervalued and

835
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: oh I can I can like this that Scott mcgilla

836
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: ray sort of mindset where it's like, how can I

837
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: maximize the returns on this piece of land here with

838
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: this little house on it? And I just love old

839
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: houses too. Yeah, I love those nineteen twenties and thirties

840
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: houses and it's kind of what they've got that character. Yeah,

841
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: so I'm like, I always get excited to go over

842
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: and take a look at a house because they're they're pretty,

843
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: they're cool. Um, It's it's different than sticking your six

844
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: gin in a wrath and not that that's not that's

845
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: a bad idea, it's so, yeah, you need to do that. Yeah,

846
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: don't hear Joel incorrectly. Right, Definitely do that make that

847
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: a priority, I would say before you start dabbling into

848
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: real estate or not. Everybody feels the same way I

849
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: do about houses or about real estate, and a lot

850
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: of people think of it as a pain or this

851
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: thing to maintain, and I'm like, well, no, I think

852
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: it is this thing that you can make better, make

853
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: prettier and um and invite people to live in and

854
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: prove the community. Yeah, and so part of it maybe

855
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: is a mindset or maybe just a predisposition. I don't know. Yeah,

856
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: so you're talking about the difference between tangible assets and

857
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: intangible So so so it's like you're less of an n

858
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: f T guy more of a masterworks kind of guy.

859
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: Even that, Like, I'm like, if I don't get to

860
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: put it in my I would rather if I'm gonna

861
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: buy a piece of art, which I do, buy it locally.

862
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: I love art. Yeah, by the look art, I put

863
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: it in my house. For some reason that art like

864
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: Quinn tubbles in value cool, but I don't care really. Yeah.

865
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: It also doesn't surprise me that you're into real estate

866
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: because I feel like, like, are do you find yourself

867
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: attracted to the aspect that you get to meet new people?

868
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: So you know, it depends on how busy your life is.

869
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: But when you show a property, it can either be

870
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: the most in my mind, in my experience, it neither

871
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: be the most fun thing ever or it can be

872
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: the most stressful thing because if your counter is pretty open,

873
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 1: maybe the previous stendants got out of there a little

874
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: bit sooner you've already gotten the place clean, it's good

875
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: to go. You feel good showing it right, like you've

876
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: got time on your side. You've got folks lined up

877
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: and you're able to talk to them. You kind of

878
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: get to to hear their story a little bit. But

879
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: then other times, I don't know, if you're you know,

880
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: if there's a very narrow window and you've got to

881
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: show it to twenty people, thirty people just in a

882
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: single weekend is a good point. That can be stressful.

883
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about your first job there at the

884
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: Chords or whatever, the photo development, yeah, drug store. There's

885
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: an element of interacting with people that I could see

886
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: you kind of getting into just kind of being there

887
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: in person, getting to hear their story exactly. I think

888
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: that's part of what I like about real estate too,

889
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: is even when you have to get contractors in there something,

890
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: if you get people you trust, Like I love meeting

891
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: my dude Edwin at the house and he's talking like

892
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: he's a great guy, and so every time they could

893
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: do yeah, it's like I gotta put a you know,

894
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: a new bath tub in a place or something like that.

895
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: Like I get to you get say hi to him.

896
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: And so your most recent work that you did at

897
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: a rental uh some fresh yeah, new bath, new new

898
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: tile exactly. And so those are the kind of things

899
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: where I think that relational aspect, that bouncing around town

900
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: and getting out of the house like that stuff kind

901
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: of um, it's a lot of fun in my book. Yeah, yeah,

902
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: so kind of On that note, we talk a decent

903
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: bit here on the show about financial independence. We just

904
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, we just talked about it here a little bit.

905
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: We talked about financial freedom. We've shared how you know,

906
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: how we've essentially reached coast fire. And so what advice

907
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: would you give to anyone who is really pursuing financial

908
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: independence they're really getting after it. Do you have any

909
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: specific thoughts to share with folks? I guess when you

910
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: when you phrase it that way, probably my initial reaction

911
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: is to make sure you're doing it in a sustainable way.

912
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: Was that a bias question? The way asked? No, no,

913
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: no, no no. I just think I think like for the

914
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 1: idiots out there who all they care about his money

915
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: and they're just trying to hit their number, if somebody

916
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: is already overdoing it, then you probably need to cool

917
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: your jets a little bit, and overdoing it is a

918
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: specific thing, right, but uh, there are there are a

919
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: lot of ways to accomplish the goals that you want

920
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: without burning out in the midst of accomplishing those goals.

921
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: And I think there is there's something to be said

922
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: for slowing down and doing it in a methodic whole way,

923
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: because if you're savings rate is, well, what if it

924
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: was and you got to enjoy your life a little

925
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: bit more and maybe you weren't working your fingers to

926
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: the bone, and maybe you got to spend more time

927
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: with people that you loved and you got to take

928
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: an extra week off. I mean, those are the kind

929
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: of things where it's all it's come back to what

930
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: I said about sneakers. It's all a tradeoff, and you

931
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: can buy those sneakers. Now. I'm not suggesting that you should.

932
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, there are measured trade offs that

933
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: are worth making in even even in the here and now.

934
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we try to bring to the

935
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: show every week, right, is saying like we drink a

936
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: fancy beer because it adds a lot to our life

937
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: and it call us more money than most people are

938
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: willing to pay, but there we have just a few

939
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: areas of our lives where we do that. And I

940
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: think there are some people who, in the dogged pursuit

941
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: of financial independence, have are not letting themselves enjoy almost anything.

942
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: And I think that's a tough position to be in.

943
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: I would say, don't do stuff that you hate longer

944
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: than you need to just for money. But but at

945
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: the same time, we are also pro financial independence, we're

946
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: pro that pursuits, and so it is this, it is

947
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: this balance that you have to strike and hard to

948
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: strike that balance. Yeah, the the loudest voices are the extremes,

949
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: and they're the ones telling you, like, go all the way,

950
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: go all out, and you can do this in five

951
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: years or less. And then there are the other people

952
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: who are like, go the slow, methodical route and if

953
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: you just invest, you know, seven eight a year, you'll

954
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: be able to retire when you're forty five. And we're saying,

955
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: and it's not a super sexy message, but that there

956
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: is an awesome place in the in between where you

957
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: can you can live the way you want to in

958
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: a lot of ways now while paying a lot of

959
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: attention to your money and how you invest. So that

960
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: you can set yourself up for success us in a

961
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: few years from now, and then for a lot of success,

962
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, a decade or or two from now. Yeah, absolutely, man,

963
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: you know so, I think we've got a lot of

964
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: listeners who are all across the spectrum when it comes

965
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: to where they are in their pursuit of financial independence

966
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: and their pursuit of being really smart with their money.

967
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: But I think there's a sort of a real danger

968
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: or a real temptation to look at what the world

969
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: is feeding you and telling you that you should do,

970
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: which is oftentimes the pursuit of money, success power, the

971
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: different things achievement right generally speaking, whether it be the

972
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: boss at work who is a great boss and who

973
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: is encouraging you, Like we talked about earlier, it's like, oh,

974
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: you're such a great writer. And while that may have

975
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: initially just been kind of a paddle on the back

976
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: or just them truly calling out a talent that they

977
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: see that can easily find its way being channeled into

978
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: working more and and neglecting some of the other important

979
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: things in life. Um Like, I feel like money, just

980
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: generally speaking, is it's almost like this, like it's the

981
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: sirens you know, like Odcs, he's tied himself to the

982
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: mast and the sirens, the call of that money. It

983
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: will always be there. And I believe that there are

984
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: fewer folks saying be careful of that, as opposed to

985
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: the voices, the books, the podcasts that are out there, Yes,

986
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: who are telling folks plus you need to do, just

987
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: go hard after it. And then once you achieve that,

988
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna have options, you're gonna have success, you're

989
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: gonna have happiness. But we believe here that you've got

990
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: to strike that balance, and it is I think it's

991
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: going to be easier for you to maintain that balance

992
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: as you climbed the ladder of success, rather than having

993
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: it be completely lopsided. You climbed the ladder and then

994
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: expect to be able to kind of find that balancing

995
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: act while you're way up there in the ladder. I

996
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: think it's a lot easier to find that balance when

997
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: you're closer to the ground. But I like what you said.

998
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean it truly is. It's difficult because it depends

999
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: on the individual. It depends where they are in their life,

1000
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: it depends what they have going on, their interests, all

1001
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: of that you have to when we were willing to

1002
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: make more sacrifices with our time in order to make

1003
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: more money so that we could invest it to make

1004
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: progress for our futures. And and now you know, a

1005
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: lot of the hard work has been done. And it's

1006
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: not that there isn't a lot of hard work, fun

1007
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: work left to do, but it is one of those

1008
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: things where, yeah, so much of it does depend on

1009
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: your life stage. Do you have kids, like we talked

1010
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: to you know, I don't know. Just what you just

1011
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: said made me think of multiple episodes we've done, multiple

1012
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: interviews that we've done one with West Moss about happiness

1013
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: and how you can't just turn the dial on and

1014
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: off and and basically like, yeah, that the things that

1015
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: you're pursuing in the here and now are the hobbies.

1016
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: The relationships are crucial and you can't cut those off

1017
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: and then expect when you hit retirement where all my

1018
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: friends at. And then I'm thinking about carl our interview

1019
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: with Mr Fi and how he's talking about how you

1020
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't do live in flips when you have kids, and

1021
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: maybe some people are willing to do that, but like

1022
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: it is, there's like a time and a place for

1023
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: for everything, and it's not one size fits all, that's

1024
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: for sure exactly. Well, speaking of core pursuits, as west

1025
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: Moss likes to call them, different hobbies, Uh, let's get

1026
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: to our beer this episode, which is called Woodland Pursuit.

1027
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: And I completely picked up this beer for us here

1028
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: on the show, specifically for you, because it's got a

1029
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: disc golf goal. Is that what you call him? Goals?

1030
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: Like the metal basket, the whole. I guess it's this golf,

1031
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: but it's got that. It's got a little little red

1032
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: putter sitting in there, and it's in it's in the woods.

1033
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: It's called Woodland Pursuit, which also Woodland happens to be

1034
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: the name of the street that you live on our

1035
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: streets intersect Woodland, You've got Delaware. This is a juicy

1036
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: New England I pa by one of our favorite breweries,

1037
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: Humble Forger. What your what your thoughts on this one?

1038
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: And when I first saw this beer, I was like,

1039
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is like my spirit animal beer.

1040
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: It really is, because yeah, the disc golf, the Woodland,

1041
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: which is the name of my streets, perfect street that

1042
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: I love, and yeah, this this was this was awesome beer. Matt,

1043
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: this is delicious. And you know it's funny because for

1044
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: an I p A. It had a lot of like

1045
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: fruit flavor, but not not generic fruit, like specifically like

1046
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: peach and apricot. Right, Yeah, absolutely, And I would say

1047
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: I think it's these This brewery does a lot of

1048
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: great fruited beers, but there's no fruit in this beer.

1049
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: It's all the hops, all hops. I'm like, I literally

1050
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: going to do a deep dive on this after we

1051
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: hit and stop on this episode, because I almost can't

1052
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: believe that there's not actually fruit in here. But on

1053
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: the label it only has hops listed out. It's just

1054
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: it's a New Zealand there. They're New Zealand hops. I

1055
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: guess I wonder if the New Zealand hops have like

1056
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: special flavor varieties that we can't get here the sting

1057
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: Can you go to New Zealand and just like eat

1058
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: the hops right off the vine and it's like you're

1059
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: eating an apricat or something. I don't want to, although

1060
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: I don't think they'll they'll let us in, but yeah, yeah,

1061
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: this beer is so sticking good, so delicious, so satisfying,

1062
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, this is now on my

1063
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: top Favorites list. It's the perfect balance between sweet and

1064
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: the bitterness that you get from the hops. There's so

1065
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: much juice, but it doesn't get too sweet, Like as

1066
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: soon as you taste it, you think, oh, this is

1067
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: gonna be too sweet, but then it like it kind

1068
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: of like drops off and it switches to kind of

1069
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: like that hoppy bitterness. And so they've they've somehow struck

1070
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: the perfect balance. This is one of the best, certainly

1071
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: the best beer we've had all year. Well, shoot, yeah,

1072
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: we just had trillium actually, so maybe we've had some

1073
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: awesolin ears. It's right up there with them. So yeah,

1074
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: if you happen to see this one in your local

1075
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: bottle shop Woodland Pursuit by Humble Forger, we would highly

1076
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: recommend that you pick this one up. It's fantastic. But Joel,

1077
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it, buddy. For this episode, listeners can

1078
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: find our show notes up on our website at how

1079
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: to money dot com. That's right, and next Wednesday we'll

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00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: resume kind of more of our normal format, doing a

1081
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: deep dive on a specific personal finance topic. We can

1082
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: only interview each other so many times, I don't know

1083
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: we could do on a repeat. We did it twice

1084
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: Groundhog Day stop would be all right. Well, that's gonna

1085
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: do it, Matt. Until next time. Best friends out, Best

1086
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: friends out,