WEBVTT - The Alien Biped

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 1>your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

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<v Speaker 1>And today we're talking about bipeds, bipedalism. Uh. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is a this is a topic that I was just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of rattling around my brain the other day because

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<v Speaker 1>for most of us, walking is just kind of every day, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you run a little bit, uh, maybe you hop a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit. It's of course involved multiple times and mammals.

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<v Speaker 1>You have macropods, kangaroo rats in my spring hair hopping,

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<v Speaker 1>my pangolins, and of course homing a apes um much

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<v Speaker 1>which includes ourselves and sometimes scientists, you know, make the

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<v Speaker 1>distinction between facultative and obligate bypeds, though this isn't a

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<v Speaker 1>standard distinction, suffice to say they're creatures such as the

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<v Speaker 1>human flightless birds, and to draw on a prehistoric example,

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<v Speaker 1>the t w rex, that have no real alternative to

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<v Speaker 1>bipedal movement. I mean, I can crab walk around, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't. If if you're crab walking, you're still bipedal

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<v Speaker 1>unless you can grow some crab legs. It depends which

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<v Speaker 1>version of the crab walk. Are you're talking, you're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about where you're I'm talking where you know, you lean

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<v Speaker 1>back and you go on all four your belly up

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<v Speaker 1>in the air. Because there's also the Zoidberg walk, where

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<v Speaker 1>you walk from side to side. That's a good one,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's not that that would just be bi Zoidberg

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<v Speaker 1>is a biped No no, no, no, I mean the

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<v Speaker 1>the Exorcist down the stairs. Well oh yes, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well that that would count, but I fully grant you

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<v Speaker 1>I probably wouldn't get around very quickly doing that all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Other creatures, of course, are capable of bipedal locomotion,

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<v Speaker 1>but only employed under certain circumstances, like, for instance, a

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<v Speaker 1>lemur dancing you know, sort of prancing sideways across a

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<v Speaker 1>clearing between two trees, a giant ground sloth in in

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<v Speaker 1>in old and olden days, rising up to reach higher branches,

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<v Speaker 1>or or one of my favorites, a cat standing on

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<v Speaker 1>its hind lay eggs to better view pray or something

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<v Speaker 1>of interest. This is always a creepy, weird side if

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<v Speaker 1>you're lucky enough to witness it. Oh but it also

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<v Speaker 1>can be very cute when dogs stand on two legs

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<v Speaker 1>to to get up there closer to the treat that

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<v Speaker 1>they want. Oh, yeah, it's adorable. It's yeah. When dogs

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<v Speaker 1>do it, it's adorable. When cats do it, it is

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<v Speaker 1>it's a little unsettling, like they've suddenly become tiny people,

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<v Speaker 1>like they've been people all along, um or that's my

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<v Speaker 1>read on it. Now. When it comes to the hominans,

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<v Speaker 1>which again includes humans, the oldest evidence of bipedal movement

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<v Speaker 1>in a hominant species was probably six million years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>This would have been the selmthropists, and there's some dispute

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<v Speaker 1>over this, but any rate, we were mostly bipedal by

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<v Speaker 1>say four million years ago. We had a curved spine

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<v Speaker 1>by two point five million years ago, and it altered

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<v Speaker 1>our hip support by one point nine five million years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>and we were fully bipedal by the time of Fomo erectus,

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<v Speaker 1>with signature pelvis and thigh bones evident in the fossil record.

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<v Speaker 1>The legs lengthened over time, allowing for longer strides everything

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<v Speaker 1>that would enable the ministry of silly walks to do

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<v Speaker 1>its thing. Yeah. Now, some of what we know about

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<v Speaker 1>the posture and gate of our ancient ancestors and their

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<v Speaker 1>close relatives has to be inferred indirectly. I mean, you

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<v Speaker 1>can get a pretty good idea from like the shapes

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<v Speaker 1>of bones and stuff that that will tell you a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>There's other there's other evidence that's very direct. A great

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<v Speaker 1>piece of early direct evidence for bipedality is the fossil

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<v Speaker 1>formation known as the Late Totally Footprints. So, Robert, have

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<v Speaker 1>you have you seen what these look like? I think

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<v Speaker 1>I have everybody very cool in In nineteen seventy six

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<v Speaker 1>there was a team working with the paleontologist Mary Leaky,

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<v Speaker 1>and they discovered a collection of fossilized animal tracks in

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<v Speaker 1>late Totally Tanzania, which is south of the Old Duvai Gorge.

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<v Speaker 1>And the tracks were preserved in what had been a

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<v Speaker 1>soft bed of volcanic ash about three point six million

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<v Speaker 1>years ago or three point three point six three point

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<v Speaker 1>seven uh and it had hardened and been preserved for

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<v Speaker 1>us to discover in the twentieth century. And then so

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<v Speaker 1>after these tracks were initially discovered, in nineteen seventy eight,

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Able, a colleague of Leaky's, discovered that the formation

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<v Speaker 1>also contained a twenty seven meter or about eighty eight

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<v Speaker 1>foot long trail of ancient hominin footprints in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>the other animal footprints, probably made by Australian Epithecus afarensis,

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<v Speaker 1>the species to which Lucy belonged, And there were about

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<v Speaker 1>seventy hominin footprints at all in all in this formation.

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<v Speaker 1>And so the thing about these footprints is they're quite

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<v Speaker 1>clearly bipedal. You know, you're not seeing four legged movement,

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<v Speaker 1>and somebody was just walking on two feet through this

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<v Speaker 1>volcanic ash. The prints i've read are space close together,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning a short stride might mean short legs. And the

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<v Speaker 1>prints also show a big toe in line with the

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<v Speaker 1>foot rather than opposed to the foot, as you see

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<v Speaker 1>in arboreal apes. So like you know, your human big

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<v Speaker 1>toes go straight out, the arboreal apes have more kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a toe thumb, like a big toe thumb, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>that they used to climb trees and grab hold of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And also their footfalls apparently went heel toe, just like

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<v Speaker 1>ours tend to. So by about three point six million

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, we we've got direct evidence that our ancestors

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<v Speaker 1>and their close relatives were walking on two feet. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also can't help but mention I've read supposedly

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<v Speaker 1>there's this story of how the prints were discovered because

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<v Speaker 1>one of Leaky's colleagues, a paleo anthropologist named Andrew hill Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>stumbled across the fossil formation when he and another colleague

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<v Speaker 1>were running around throwing elephant poop at each other. Oh well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know you gotta keep it lighthearted on the dick, right, So, um,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, we we know all of this based

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<v Speaker 1>on mostly fossil remains, and by that this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're looking at the bones of our ancestors and observing

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<v Speaker 1>what the gradual shift to bipedalism did to us. And

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<v Speaker 1>it certainly certainly came at a cost. Yeah, now, to

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<v Speaker 1>be sure it was it was worth it, I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean. It made it easier for us to pick

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<v Speaker 1>up fruits and pick up pick from a low line branches.

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<v Speaker 1>It gave us free hands for carrying food and also

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<v Speaker 1>very importantly carrying tools, carrying our young as well. It

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<v Speaker 1>allowed us to rise up and appear larger and more

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<v Speaker 1>fearsome to our enemies. Are many enemies of the wild.

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<v Speaker 1>This is something that I think we often don't think about.

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<v Speaker 1>But unless you're being instructed on how to react to

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<v Speaker 1>a bear in the win the wild, you know, they say,

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<v Speaker 1>make yourself as big as possible, and certainly there are

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<v Speaker 1>other animals that do just the same thing, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the strengths of being able to at least

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<v Speaker 1>rise up on two feet. Yeah, now you can't know

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<v Speaker 1>this for sure, but I tend to think that bipedalism

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<v Speaker 1>is a sort of necessary precursor to advanced tool using intelligence.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you see some use of tools in quadrupedal apes,

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<v Speaker 1>but the fact that the fact that you're walking on

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<v Speaker 1>two feet gives you free hands, and having free hands,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like suddenly you've got much more incentive to

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<v Speaker 1>be using them for all kinds of stuff. Well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting when you think about the animals that do display

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<v Speaker 1>some form of tool use. I mean, certainly you have

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<v Speaker 1>the the apes, which are going to more or less

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<v Speaker 1>aligned with the human experience of tool use. But then

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<v Speaker 1>of course you have like the corvids uh and uh

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<v Speaker 1>and a few other birds that that also use tools. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously they are engaging in bipedal ground movement. Their wings

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<v Speaker 1>are tucked away, but it's perhaps and it's a slightly

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<v Speaker 1>different situation with birds because those wings do have a purpose. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>They've just specialized their their their beak functionality, and I've

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<v Speaker 1>learned how to use tools with that. The same is

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<v Speaker 1>truy of dolphins. You know they're using when they engage

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<v Speaker 1>in tool use, are using their snout um octopi slightly

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<v Speaker 1>different situation they have they have They have a wide

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<v Speaker 1>variety of limbs and are not necessarily gonna become bipedal

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<v Speaker 1>anytime soon. So anyway you shake it the back to

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<v Speaker 1>the human scenario, it helped us expand our range. It

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<v Speaker 1>It definitely played a part in our our ascension or dominance,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly our ability to invent things and expand, but we

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<v Speaker 1>also paid a price. We had to distribute all of

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<v Speaker 1>our weights on two limbs, resulting in all sorts of

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<v Speaker 1>painful experiences such as a lower back pain, slip discs,

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<v Speaker 1>arthritis in the lower body, fallen arches. Our spines are

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately just kind of weird. We evolved wider hips and

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<v Speaker 1>stronger knees to kind of cope with it to a

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<v Speaker 1>certain extent. But this is the reason that roughly of

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<v Speaker 1>adult humans will experience back pain in their lives. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say one of the biggest anatomical drawbacks is that

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<v Speaker 1>we can make finger guns at each other. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>that that is a true blow to the species you mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the beneficial kind where like kids playing cowboys

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<v Speaker 1>and Indians or whatever on the playground, know the like

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<v Speaker 1>the like catch you later, bro Okay. So also it

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<v Speaker 1>also affected the way that we give birth and uh

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<v Speaker 1>and this is a I have to say, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a topic that we could easily have devoted an entire episode.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of scholarship and debate on exactly how

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<v Speaker 1>the modern human birthing scenario pans out towards prehistoric examples,

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<v Speaker 1>but the move towards the bipedal form changed our skeletons.

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<v Speaker 1>This affected the pelvis. Most primates have a pretty straight

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<v Speaker 1>birth canal, but hominans soon boasted a narrow, distorted, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of fun house tube of a birth canal. The offspring

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<v Speaker 1>had to twist and turn in order to pass through.

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<v Speaker 1>This is true of our our ancestors. But our bodies

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<v Speaker 1>continued to evolve. We became taller, we grew larger brains.

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<v Speaker 1>That means meant bigger brained babies having to make it

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<v Speaker 1>through that twisting tunnel. Everything became tighter. Child birth became

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<v Speaker 1>a potentially more dangerous affair, because it also means giving

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<v Speaker 1>birth to a child an earlier stage of its development

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<v Speaker 1>in order to actually break it free from the confines

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<v Speaker 1>of our bipedally twisted bodies. Now, again, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more to this. Scientists have gone back and forth on

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<v Speaker 1>the so called obstetric dilemma, but bipedal evolution certainly changed things.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, I think we should take a quick break.

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<v Speaker 1>We will be right back to discuss why bipedalism evolved

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<v Speaker 1>in humans. Thank alright, we're back. So this is a

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<v Speaker 1>big question because certainly we can point to all of

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<v Speaker 1>these like the pros and all the cons, but like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the driving force right right now? What caused

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<v Speaker 1>our our ancient hominin ancestors to go on two legs? Primarily,

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<v Speaker 1>why did our ancestors become bipetle And this is an

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<v Speaker 1>ongoing debate. We know at some point we transitioned from

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<v Speaker 1>mostly four footed gate to a mostly two footed gate,

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<v Speaker 1>but why did it happen and what type of pressure

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<v Speaker 1>selected for this? So, first of all, when answering questions

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<v Speaker 1>like this, it's often hard to be certain, right, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we only have the evidence we can find. Fossil evidence helps,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's hard to like run new experiments to test this.

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<v Speaker 1>We you know, we only have the fossil finds we

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<v Speaker 1>have and can only draw the conclusions we can draw

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<v Speaker 1>from them. And there have been all kinds of answers

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<v Speaker 1>over the years. So for a long time, consensus seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be that bipedalism was an adaptation to a change

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<v Speaker 1>in our primary habitat, as our ancestors moved down out

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<v Speaker 1>of the trees into a flat grassland, perhaps driven by

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<v Speaker 1>changing climate, like changing climate killed off forests and left

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<v Speaker 1>these you know, savannahs with tall grasses in their place,

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<v Speaker 1>or these creatures just moved down into the savannahs to

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<v Speaker 1>follow food sources or something. In this case, uh, these

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<v Speaker 1>hominins needed to stand up to see over the tall grass.

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<v Speaker 1>And this explanation is not still favored. This has fallen

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<v Speaker 1>out of favor among experts, and one reason is that

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<v Speaker 1>climate history analysis and physical fossil evidence indicate that we

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<v Speaker 1>were becoming bipedal at the same time that we were

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<v Speaker 1>still adapted to climbing and living in trees. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think there are multiple lines of evidence supporting this. It

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<v Speaker 1>appears that at some point our ancestors were both like

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<v Speaker 1>living in forests and climbing trees, but also having skeletons.

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<v Speaker 1>That's supported bipedal walking gate. Also, it's worth pointing out

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<v Speaker 1>that plenty of other animals that occupy areas with tall

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<v Speaker 1>grasses tall grasslands do just find staying on all fours right.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't need to stand up to see over the

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<v Speaker 1>grass in order to survive. Like grassland baboons today are

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<v Speaker 1>still quadrupedal. So that used to be what people thought,

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<v Speaker 1>but that is not no longer the main hypothesis. So

0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 1>another theory that is popular with the public but not

0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 1>with scientists in the relevant fields is the much much

0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 1>beloved aquatic ape theory. Oh yes, we talked about this

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 1>um last year. Yeah, and our Aquatic Humanoids episode. We

0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.360
<v Speaker 1>concluded that there's not really any good evidence for this.

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 1>There's no direct fossil evidence for whatsoever. And the indirect

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 1>reasoning that causes people to think that there's evidence for

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.559
<v Speaker 1>this is, uh, it's just not very good. But we

0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.679
<v Speaker 1>should mention it because this is bound to come up

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.280
<v Speaker 1>whenever people address bipedality in its origins. I think it's

0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 1>just because it's fun to imagine, maybe, and because it's

0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.960
<v Speaker 1>unconventional that makes it more interesting to people. Basically, it

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.320
<v Speaker 1>says that the explanation for the main phenotypic variations between

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 1>us and our closest ape relatives is that our direct

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 1>ancestors briefly evolved to become water dwelling primates so sort

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.320
<v Speaker 1>of like fishmen and uh, and then moved back to

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.200
<v Speaker 1>dry land after that. And under this theory, bipedality evolves

0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 1>because we need to keep our heads above water when

0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 1>we're waiting around in search of shellfish for food. All Right,

0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>it would be kind of like the idea that that

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 1>we became bipedal because we didn't want to get our

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 1>t shirts wet, you know, I mean, it's it's not

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>that bad, but yeah. So this was first proposed by

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Alistair Hardy, and it was mainly developed by somebody named

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Elaine Morgan. And in short, Morgan says, look, we're the

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 1>only mammal that consistently walks on two legs, but some

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.920
<v Speaker 1>four legged animals can occasionally stand up on two legs

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.679
<v Speaker 1>and wind. Do our closest stape relatives walk on two legs? Well?

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 1>She claims there's only one circumstance when they always walk

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 1>on two legs, and that's when they're waiting in water.

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 1>I see some pretty clear evidence running counter to this assertion,

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 1>just in publicly available video like primates. You look this up.

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Primates sometimes stand up on two legs for all kinds

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 1>of reasons while carrying objects and moving around with them

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 1>during dominance displays to reach something like they don't. And

0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 1>they also, on top of that, don't always stand up

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>when waiting in water. I found video of guerrillas waiting

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>around in water, and they tend to stay on all fours.

0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 1>So if the classic explanation about seeing over the grass

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>is probably wrong and we don't put any stock in

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 1>the aquatic ape, what is the real explanation? Of course,

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 1>we still don't know, but there are a lot of

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 1>competing theories. Maybe there was a selection pressure on having

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 1>free hands, so maybe some of our ancestors began carrying

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 1>or throwing things, and for some reason this got started,

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.119
<v Speaker 1>and then there was a great survival or reproduction advantage

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>for the ones that did this more and more of

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>the time. So being able this comes back to the

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>examples of being able to carry ones young, being able

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to carry food that you've gathered, or being able to

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 1>carry a tool or a weapon, say a nice you

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.200
<v Speaker 1>know jaw bone for smacking the other epe creatures around. Well,

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean a big one I've seen suggested actually is throwing,

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Like if if we evolved somehow a throwing hunting strategy

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>where you would throw objects, that this could have spurred

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.640
<v Speaker 1>bipedality or some bridge to it. Another thing I was

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 1>reading about in a BBC article is that recent research

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 1>has suggested that perhaps partial bipedality helped these hominins adapt

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.720
<v Speaker 1>to rocky, uneven terrain in geologically active areas. Essentially that

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 1>our ancestors were not only tree climbers, but rock climbers,

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and this encouraged them to take on some traits that

0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 1>bridge the gap to bipedalism. Another is, I guess sort

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 1>of the least the least interesting is an idea but

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 1>has seems to have a lot going for it, And

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 1>it's simply that a certain kind of bipedalism in tree

0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>dwelling life became useful, as it is in many orangutans today.

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Like you can look at orangutans living in the trees

0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.640
<v Speaker 1>that walk around on two feet, like they'll reach up

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 1>and grab branches with their arms over their heads while

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 1>walking around on other branches with two feet, it's just

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 1>a great way to anchor yourself between a lower and

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120
<v Speaker 1>upper branch. So there are a lot of competing theories.

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know there are other ones we didn't

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 1>even cover here, but this is this is an unsolved question.

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.520
<v Speaker 1>We still don't know the answer now anyway to shake it.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 1>We were not the first bipeds, not even close. I

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 1>already mentioned the t rex, you know that, that famous

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 1>the famous Cretaceous period, the carnivore Cretaceous spirit, of course,

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 1>banned hundred forty five million years ago to sixty six

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 1>million years ago. And this again, it's just an animal

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 1>that could scarcely be more of a biped you know,

0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 1>those tiny little arms. And of course he or she

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 1>is just one of the many therapods that roamed the

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 1>prehistoric Earth, and in many cases not not not just

0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.880
<v Speaker 1>roamed it, but ran after their prey, running a key

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 1>advantage of their bipedal morphology. But even they, it seems

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.919
<v Speaker 1>we're not the first. Um there's a two hundred and

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>ninety million year old fossil of a species that is

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 1>dubbed ood Obama's Kersaurus. This is a creature that was

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>very lizard like it seems, and it's a probable appearance,

0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>had short fore limbs, relatively long tail and high and

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 1>also relatively long hind limbs. So these are kind of

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 1>the hallmarks of of a bipedal creature. But the other

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.879
<v Speaker 1>curious thing about it is that it seems to have

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 1>been a herbivore rather than a meat eat or like

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the theropods. Therefore it probably palin. I just think it

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>probably depended on bipedal running to flee from quadrupedal danger.

0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.920
<v Speaker 1>And on the subject of dinosaurs and quadrupedal and bipedal arrangement,

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I found a two thousand five article in Astrobiology magazine

0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.919
<v Speaker 1>that brings up a species that is dubbed Masso spondulous.

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.119
<v Speaker 1>And this is a pro sorrow pod now Sara pods

0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>as everyone remember that. You know, they're the giant Diplodocus

0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Brachiosaurus style kind of creatures, you know, big, enormous quadrupeds.

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 1>It just enormous, just ponderous creatures. The pro sauropods, unlike

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 1>their descendants, they could rise up on their hind legs

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 1>and go after food bi petally. So back in two

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>thousand five, University of Toronto at Mississaugua thiss ut M

0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.719
<v Speaker 1>biology professor Robert Rice. He looked at an embryo of

0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.920
<v Speaker 1>one of these massospondulous creatures and he found the thing

0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.200
<v Speaker 1>was that it looked like a four legged saara pod.

0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.480
<v Speaker 1>So he hypothesized that it would have grown into a

0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.159
<v Speaker 1>full bipedal form as it matured. Uh this is what

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 1>he told Astro Astrobiology magazine quote. Because the embryo of

0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:09.719
<v Speaker 1>massospondos looks like a tiny saua pod with massive limbs

0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.520
<v Speaker 1>in a quadrupedal gait. We proposed in our paper that

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the sauropods gate probably evolved through a phenomenon called ptomorphosis,

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>the retention of embryonic and juvenile features in the adult.

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 1>So this is interesting cause we're talking about a creature

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>that potentially adapted bipedal, the bipedal gate, but then left

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:35.199
<v Speaker 1>it behind. Uh paedomor morphosis. By the way, it's it's

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.479
<v Speaker 1>something we see today in various amphibian speeches species. But

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.560
<v Speaker 1>for for these saua pods and for the true sauropods,

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 1>it would mean that they were essentially man babies of

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 1>the prehistoric world, like they simply no longer had to

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.639
<v Speaker 1>grow up like they were the biggest forest eating dumpsters

0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 1>on the planet, and therefore they really didn't have to

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 1>augment their more or less larval form anymore. You know,

0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 1>I have often wondered something when looking at bipedal therapod

0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.200
<v Speaker 1>dinosaurs like the t rex. Just look at that powerful

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.040
<v Speaker 1>lower body and then the tiny little baby arms out front.

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 1>If this dinosaur fell down or even just you know,

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 1>went to have a little lie down in the meadow,

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 1>how did it get back up. I'm not saying it

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.760
<v Speaker 1>would be impossible, it just seems very awkward. Of course,

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>we're by peedle and we can get up from the ground,

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.679
<v Speaker 1>but we have long arms and strong upper bodies to

0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>help us. Try lying down on the ground and then

0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 1>getting up without using your arms at all. You can

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.240
<v Speaker 1>probably do it, but it's not so easy, is it?

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.640
<v Speaker 1>And the t rex probably has an even lower relative

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>center of mass than you. So what's going on? Like,

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.280
<v Speaker 1>was it this much of a struggle for the t

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.800
<v Speaker 1>rex every time it had to get up from the ground.

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.920
<v Speaker 1>That's a great question. Well, I've been wondering this for

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.600
<v Speaker 1>a while. I finally looked it up. There's actually a

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.720
<v Speaker 1>really good explainer on this in Scientific American provided by

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.719
<v Speaker 1>the paleontologist Gregory M. Ericson of Florida State University. And

0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 1>so here's what Erickson says. First of all, there has

0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 1>long been a dispute over exactly what the t rex

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.399
<v Speaker 1>is tiny four limbs were four uh maybe you know.

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 1>One idea says, maybe they're just a vestigial, meaning they're

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.159
<v Speaker 1>actually not good for much of anything at all, and

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>they only existed in diminished form because the rex hadn't

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.320
<v Speaker 1>fully lost them yet. And then the next idea says, well,

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:27.679
<v Speaker 1>maybe they're grasping arms used in copulation. And then the

0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 1>next idea says, maybe there's some sort of meat hook

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:33.399
<v Speaker 1>for feeding chunks of flesh into the mouth. Though this

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 1>hypothesis was beaten down when it became clear that the

0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 1>arms of a t rex could not reach its mouth. Yeah,

0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:40.640
<v Speaker 1>this is one of those things that when we went

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.120
<v Speaker 1>to the museum in Chicago, the Field Museum, that became obvious.

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 1>You can when you go up to the arm, Uh,

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>the fossil bones of the t rex's arm, they are

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 1>the size of my arm. But the t rex is

0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the size of like a two story house. And uh,

0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>clearly this is a shrunken limb exactly. But another hypothesis

0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.360
<v Speaker 1>is that the baby arms were useful exactly for helping

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the t rex get back up when it was lying

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.840
<v Speaker 1>on the ground. So in the year nine seventy, the

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:15.400
<v Speaker 1>British paleontologist Barney Newman speculated that maybe the arms could

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.240
<v Speaker 1>help the t rex do a do a thing kind

0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 1>of like a push up. It would be a push

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 1>up motion where the where it would help the rex

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.240
<v Speaker 1>keep from sliding forward along the ground as it tried

0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:28.760
<v Speaker 1>to raise its body to a standing position. Just imagine

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.560
<v Speaker 1>trying to rise without anything to brace you, like lie

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.720
<v Speaker 1>flat on your stomach and then try to push yourself

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 1>up to standing using your legs alone. You might be

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.320
<v Speaker 1>able to do it, but it's not easy. It's a

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 1>lot easier if you can use your arms right, and

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.480
<v Speaker 1>it requires a fair amount of sort of coiling and

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 1>slithering around for for most people, I think, And it's

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 1>it's easier to imagine that kind of movement in our

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:53.240
<v Speaker 1>bodies as opposed to the t rex. Yes, so Ericson says,

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, now we know more about the biomechanics of

0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.639
<v Speaker 1>the t rex than we did back when these ideas

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.919
<v Speaker 1>were hypothesized. So of course, and I'm one. As we mentioned,

0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 1>the arms can't reach them out the mouth, so the

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.240
<v Speaker 1>meat hook theory that's dead. One thing we have learned

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>is that t rex arms were often broken during life,

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to in an injury that immediately caused death.

0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And this tells us some interesting things. First of all,

0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.560
<v Speaker 1>it tells us that the arms were probably kind of

0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.879
<v Speaker 1>bad at whatever the rexes were using them for. And

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 1>number two, they were not absolutely necessary for survival. The

0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.359
<v Speaker 1>fact that we could have like examples of them having

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 1>healed or not immediately killed the rex means that the

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>rex could break an arm and survive for at least

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.879
<v Speaker 1>a month afterward. If an animal in the wild breaks

0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a survival essential limb, that I mean that animal is

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 1>generally pretty much done for, right, like a cheetah breaking

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 1>a leg, etcetera. It's it's, it's done. And this suggests

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 1>four limbs that were not survival essential. Also, though the

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 1>rex arms would have been strong by our standards, like

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.199
<v Speaker 1>he says they could probably curl four hundred pounds, they

0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.040
<v Speaker 1>would not have had strong enough bone structure in the

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.840
<v Speaker 1>wrists to lift what he calls large mechanical loads, and

0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 1>that would include the rex's own body. So this means

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Newman's push up hypothesis is probably wrong, right, that the

0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>t rex did a push up in order to get

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 1>up from the ground. So how did they get up

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.879
<v Speaker 1>once they were lying down? Well Ericson suggests looking to

0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 1>birds who get up without the aid of four limbs,

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.200
<v Speaker 1>and apparently what they do is they simply tuck their

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 1>legs directly underneath their center of gravity and then push

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.200
<v Speaker 1>straight up. Actually, probably sort of the exact same thing

0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 1>you would do if you tried to stand up from

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:35.119
<v Speaker 1>the ground without using your arms. You try to gather

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 1>your legs under you and then push up right. Yeah, exactly.

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 1>But also therapod dinosaurs with tiny arms like the t

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 1>rex would have had the aid of their tails to

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.919
<v Speaker 1>help gain additional leverage or bracing against the ground. So

0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 1>the way I'm imagining this I could be wrong, but

0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.439
<v Speaker 1>it's the same way you would brace your hands against

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>the ground in front of you while extending your legs

0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.760
<v Speaker 1>to stand up. Imagine a t rex may being able

0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 1>to brace its tail against the ground behind it while

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 1>pushing up with its legs, a sort of backwards standing.

0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:10.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, all of this, I think it goes It's

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 1>just another reminder that the t Rex one of the

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>most famous dinosaurs, if not the most famous dinosaur, that

0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 1>was the specimen out there, and also one that we

0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.480
<v Speaker 1>we know a fair amount about there in a number

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 1>of the fossils that have been found, and yet there

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:27.879
<v Speaker 1>are there's there's so much that we do not know

0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:30.439
<v Speaker 1>about the t Rex. There are things about it that

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:32.560
<v Speaker 1>we will we will never know unless we get that

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>time machine to go back and start hunting them, or

0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 1>if we somehow bring them back to life with a

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:41.399
<v Speaker 1>Jurassic Park scenario. I propose a pre emptive ban on

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>dinosaur hunting before we have any time machines. We've got

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:46.880
<v Speaker 1>to get the regulations in place. That's right, We've got

0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>to think ahead of our technology. Alright. Well, on that note,

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>we're going to take a quick break and we'll be

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:56.399
<v Speaker 1>right back. Thank alright, we're back, alright. So one of

0:25:56.440 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the big questions I had to in all of this is, alright,

0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 1>we we've looked at bipeds in prehistoric times, look at

0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.560
<v Speaker 1>the bipedal world around us, uh that the humans have built.

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 1>We're always trying to figure out what's going on or

0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:11.400
<v Speaker 1>what could be going on in other worlds, What other

0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>kinds of life have evolved, are evolving, or will evolve

0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.880
<v Speaker 1>in the future. So, assuming the entire universe isn't dead

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:24.400
<v Speaker 1>other than us, which you know, might be right. So, um,

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:28.320
<v Speaker 1>what's the deal? Would we find legged creatures on other worlds?

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 1>And if we did, would we find bipedal creatures? We

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:37.400
<v Speaker 1>can certainly imagine extraterrestrial life that doesn't depend on legged locomotion,

0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 1>but intelligent life, life capable of achieving technology along the

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 1>same lines as the human model. You know, we've we've

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:46.600
<v Speaker 1>got into this a bit in the past, discussing the

0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.680
<v Speaker 1>notion of say a hypothetical aquatic species and what sort

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of technology they might be able to develop. Uh. As

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:57.080
<v Speaker 1>technico technology entails the mina manipulation of matter, one would

0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:01.679
<v Speaker 1>need some sort of limbs of manipulation. Now, terrestrial nature

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:05.639
<v Speaker 1>provides us with other forms of manipulation beyond UH. You know,

0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:07.639
<v Speaker 1>our hands, in our arms, they are the arms and

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 1>tentacles of cephalopods. Uh, one could maybe turned to pseudopods

0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:14.719
<v Speaker 1>and UH and other organisms so they're not used for

0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 1>tool use. But if we're just imagining some sort of

0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:20.960
<v Speaker 1>an organism manipulating things, I think pseudopods are on the table.

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I just had a crazy idea, what about a magnetic organism,

0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:27.760
<v Speaker 1>like it's got like a skin surface that can manipulate

0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:32.199
<v Speaker 1>things by changing magnetic attraction or yeah, or it's picked up.

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean there are animals in the natural world that

0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:38.240
<v Speaker 1>utilize magnetism to a certain extent, right, so maybe there's

0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:40.720
<v Speaker 1>something there. Um. But when we try and think of

0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:45.120
<v Speaker 1>tool users that engage in tool use, uh without engaging

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.400
<v Speaker 1>in pipedal movement, well, you know, a few varieties of

0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.440
<v Speaker 1>of octopus come to mind. Uh. We can think of dolphins,

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and we of course do see a lot of bipedole

0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 1>use in apes and birds. But then we have these

0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.760
<v Speaker 1>animals that engage in tool use via the mouthparts or

0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.679
<v Speaker 1>in the case of elephants, with their trunks. You know

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Ian M. Banks, the sci Fia writer, he actually explored

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>this idea, uh in his excellent novel Surface Detail. There

0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 1>are these creatures called the the pav Pavoolians, and they

0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:18.240
<v Speaker 1>are they're like an elephant like quadrupedal species, but they

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 1>have a pair of trunks that they use for tool use.

0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 1>In computer interface in the front, now, I was looking

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>around for for any writings on this subject, and I

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:33.439
<v Speaker 1>ran across UH this paper Some engineering considerations on the

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:38.040
<v Speaker 1>controversial issue of humanoids by Gean Carlo Guinta from the

0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Department of Mechanics and UH. This is UH from the

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Polytechnico Deterreno and this was collected in Cellular Origin, Life

0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and Extreme Habitats and Astrobiology and UH. Guinta actually lays

0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 1>out much of what I said concerning UH possible mobility methods,

0:28:56.760 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 1>UH and more in a very succinct way. He writes, quote,

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:03.440
<v Speaker 1>mobility of a living being is strictly linked with how

0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>it gets its food and energy. Autotrophic beings may not

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 1>need any sort of mobility, while heterotrophic ones and particularly predators,

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>usually need to move to obtain food. Large animals either

0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 1>are supported on a solid surface, float in a fluid

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:24.600
<v Speaker 1>under the effect of hydrostatic forces, or fly using aerodynamic forces.

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Very small beings may use other supporting mechanisms like surface tension,

0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 1>molecular interactions, etcetera. Since it is likely that an intelligent

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>being has a minimum size larger than allowing to to

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 1>use these mechanisms, they will not be considered. Other solutions

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:43.360
<v Speaker 1>like magnetic levitation or jets are conceivable, but are quite

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:46.960
<v Speaker 1>hypothetical and will not be considered and uh. He goes

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 1>on to point out that most animals on solid surface

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>surfaces do have legs, and the evolution on our planet

0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:55.240
<v Speaker 1>at least is characterized by a gradual reduction in the

0:29:55.320 --> 0:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>number of legs. He continues quote in general, the large

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>is the animal and the lower is the gravity of

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>the planet. The easier it is to remain an equilibrium

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 1>on a small number of legs, in the sense that

0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:11.320
<v Speaker 1>the response of the nervous system to avoid falling down

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe less quick. From this point of view, low gravity,

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:18.920
<v Speaker 1>uh simplifies all operations related to motion. They go on

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:21.080
<v Speaker 1>to point out that the speed is important, that speed

0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.480
<v Speaker 1>of course, is important for survival and uh and it's

0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.800
<v Speaker 1>an important factor in natural selection. And we can see

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 1>this reflected in our dinosaur examples, right, are prehistoric creature examples,

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 1>because something like the t rex is running quickly to

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 1>catch prey, as are its theropod um um uh kin.

0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 1>And then that earlier example, the kind of weird lizard

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 1>herbivore that would have conceivably been running to escape from predator.

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.480
<v Speaker 1>It seems another example where so much in evolution ends

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.200
<v Speaker 1>up having to do with speed. Like you know, when

0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:54.720
<v Speaker 1>we talked about what called the ideas behind what caused

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.800
<v Speaker 1>the Cambrian explosion, you know, this is another big open

0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:01.320
<v Speaker 1>question in UH, in paleon oology and in the history

0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>of biology and evolution UH. And one of the ideas

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:10.520
<v Speaker 1>there is that maybe suddenly the introduction of predation into

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 1>the food chain drove an explosion in body plan adaptation

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.760
<v Speaker 1>because suddenly things needed to protect themselves and move quickly

0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 1>in order to survive or in order to well sylvia,

0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 1>in order to survive, to catch or evade predation. Indeed,

0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 1>so again to continues and says that all of this

0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>UH means there will be quote a strong incentive to

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:37.400
<v Speaker 1>shift from walking a sequel of static equilibrium positions to running,

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:40.760
<v Speaker 1>which includes positions in which static equilibrium is not guaranteed.

0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Large animals, possibly with a smaller number of legs may

0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:47.800
<v Speaker 1>have been an advantage, and bipeds are a very good

0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 1>configuration for beings having an adequate controlled system. This is interesting.

0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 1>So he's pointing out how one of the features of

0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:58.040
<v Speaker 1>running is that that, like you, you can be off

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 1>balance while you're running, because it's the same way like

0:32:00.520 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 1>a bicycle works. You know, a bicycle works because you're

0:32:03.560 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 1>by maintaining speed, you could do this thing that you

0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 1>couldn't stay balanced to the lower speed. Yeah. And if

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:12.480
<v Speaker 1>you're the t rex, ideally that that that herbivore is

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:14.959
<v Speaker 1>going to break your fall and you're gonna do it

0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:20.080
<v Speaker 1>with mouth wide open. Right. So they also touch on

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the fact that that tool use and manipulation amounts to

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:26.280
<v Speaker 1>a shortcut and evolution uh quote objects that increase the

0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:31.000
<v Speaker 1>potentialities of its body working like prostheses. Uh Why why

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 1>slowly augment your body over the course of you know,

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:35.840
<v Speaker 1>long stretches of time when you can do something like

0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:38.840
<v Speaker 1>this within a lifetime be a tool use. So they

0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>conclude that such an alien, if if we're trying to

0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 1>imagine an alien emerging in another world, that it would

0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:48.280
<v Speaker 1>need to have some sort of of locomotion and some

0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of manipulation organs quote the ladder being best derived

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:57.000
<v Speaker 1>from locomotion organs like legs, the humanoid layout with two

0:32:57.080 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 1>arms and two legs seems to be optimal. This is

0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 1>an interesting point. Yeah, I would I would have maybe said, okay, uh,

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:08.760
<v Speaker 1>who knows how many legs an alien we encounter might have,

0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 1>but if it's moving around on the land, I think

0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:14.480
<v Speaker 1>this is some pretty solid reasoning. There tends to be

0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:17.920
<v Speaker 1>evolution toward fewer numbers of legs over time for to

0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:22.600
<v Speaker 1>increase speed, and that this can free up other limbs

0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 1>for tool use, which seems to be an important part

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 1>of tool using intelligence. Like you, you wouldn't need tool

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 1>using intelligence if you didn't have hands to use tools with, right, Yeah,

0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's an interesting paper. I'm sure there's some

0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 1>there's some astrobiologists and biologists that might evolutionary biologist that

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:44.200
<v Speaker 1>may take issue with this, but but I think I

0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>think the author makes an interesting argument here. And it

0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:50.920
<v Speaker 1>also as much as I love multi legged aliens in

0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:53.760
<v Speaker 1>my sci fi, it also gives me a little support

0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 1>for visions of bipedal aliens being the dominant UH form

0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:02.120
<v Speaker 1>in so many different science fiction visions. Now, this also

0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:06.360
<v Speaker 1>makes me question what unexamined assumptions are we bringing on

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.560
<v Speaker 1>void that could be clouding our vision Right here, we're

0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.399
<v Speaker 1>we're thinking, Okay, I'm just trying to universalize about like

0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the physics of planets and the principles of evolution and

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:21.399
<v Speaker 1>not be you know, Earth chauvinist. But but I bet

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 1>there are ways that that we're somehow being Earth chauvinists

0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 1>that we're not noticing. Yeah, and I we haven't even

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.799
<v Speaker 1>talked about tales. I can easily imagine some sort of

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.400
<v Speaker 1>an alien creature with a prehensile tail um or you know,

0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:37.520
<v Speaker 1>some other prehensile uh that if they're an animate that

0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:40.279
<v Speaker 1>they're able to use for tool use and manipulation. Well,

0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to bring it back to the t rex is, I

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:43.759
<v Speaker 1>think we did mention this, but despite the fact that

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 1>we don't have tales, tales often form an extremely important

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.680
<v Speaker 1>part of bipedal locomotion. The tails are there to counter

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:52.960
<v Speaker 1>as a counterweight for the front of the body. If

0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:55.120
<v Speaker 1>you've only got two legs and you're like a t rex,

0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:57.520
<v Speaker 1>you're leading forward. You know, you saw these old pictures

0:34:57.520 --> 0:34:59.759
<v Speaker 1>where people used to illustrate t rex is with their

0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 1>tail is dragging on the ground. That doesn't make any

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.400
<v Speaker 1>sense that they of course had to have their tails

0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:06.400
<v Speaker 1>up in the air as a counterweight to the body

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 1>so they could move. Yeah. I am also reminded of kangaroos,

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 1>who have you know, engage in bipedal gates and their

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 1>tails is often utilized as a is a third limb.

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:20.879
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, there's a whole bunch that we could do there.

0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 1>I also have to say there's a whole episode we

0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:28.320
<v Speaker 1>should probably record on just bipedal robots and the attempt

0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to create functional bipedal robots, and perhaps getting into the

0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 1>idea of why we want to do it as well,

0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:36.440
<v Speaker 1>because they've got to be like us, gotta be like us.

0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 1>We got to create a mechanical man. So we'll will

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.279
<v Speaker 1>inevitably come back to that topic in a future episode,

0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 1>but for now, there you have it. Bipedalism something we do,

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 1>something other organisms do, something organisms have been doing on

0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>this planet for a very long time, and conceivably there

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 1>could be other bipeds out there in the universe doing

0:35:56.640 --> 0:35:59.120
<v Speaker 1>their thing as well. Now, if you want to check

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.120
<v Speaker 1>out more episodes of Have to Blow Your Mind, head

0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:02.839
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