1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosseo from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: US troops in the Middle East remain on high alert 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: as Israel and Iran appeared to be honoring a ceasefire 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: agreement unexpectedly announced by President Donald Trump last evening. This morning, 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: Trump was reacting angrily to reports of early breaches of 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: the deal by both sides. 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 3: Now I hear is you just. 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 4: Went out because they felt it was violated by one. 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 5: Rocket that didn't land anywhere. 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: That's not what we want, I'll tell you, and I'm 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: telling you I'm not happy about that Israel either. 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: Article I of the Constitution gives Congress the power to 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 2: declare war, and the War Powers Act requires the President 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: to consult with Congress before using military force. Democrats and 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: some Republican lawmakers are critical of President Trump's decision to 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: attack Iran's nuclear sites because Trump didn't get approval from 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: Congress or consult with lawmakers beforehand. Here are Democratic House 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries and Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski. 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 6: The role of Congress is very clear. Under Article one. 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 6: It is the Congress that has the ability of the 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 6: authority to declare war. And so I think you will 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 6: see that conversation, that debate move forward this week. 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: But Trump administration officials have called the strikes limited actions 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: aimed solely at Iran's nuclear capabilities that don't meet the 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: definition of war. Here Secretary of State Marco Rubio on 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: Fox News on Sunday. 27 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 5: This is not a war against Iran. This is this 28 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 5: is very simple. You know, sixty seven days ago, the 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 5: President of the United States sent the Rantings a letter 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 5: and it said, you're not going to have nuclear weapons, 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 5: You're not going to have a militarized nuclear program. Let's negotiate. 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 5: I want to do this diplomatically. I want to do 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 5: this peacefully. They tried to play them along the way 34 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 5: they've played every America president for the last thirty five years. 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 5: And you know, the President told them, if we don't 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 5: get a deal, which is what we wanted, then I'll 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 5: have to handle it differently. 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: My guest is Joshua Castenberg, a professor at the University 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: of New Mexico Law School and a former judge and 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: prosecutor in the US Air Force. So, josh Article one 41 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: of the Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war. 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: Article two designates the President as commander in chief of 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 2: the Army and Navy of the United States, and sometimes 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: those two may seem to be in conflict. 45 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the framers of the Constitution, in order to 46 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: create techs and balances on the federal government and keep 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: it a government of limited power, gave to the Congress 48 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: of the United States the sole authority to declare war. 49 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: So historically, what had happened prior to, you know, World 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: War Two, is that the President would go to Congress 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: and ask for a declaration of war. And in our 52 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: major conflicts with foreign countries, that's exactly what happened. And 53 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: that included the Spanish American War, the Mexican American War, 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve. Some of these were closed vote. 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: Certainly the War of eighteen twelve was a close vote. 56 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: World War one, the declaration of war against Germany, you know, 57 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: he had fifty members of Congress voting no on it, 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: so it was not unanimous. But after World War Two, 59 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: Congress stopped declaring war. You know, with the Korean War, 60 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: which Truman and others called the police Action, they at 61 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: least had the United Nations with the Security Council Resolution 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: empowering the United States and allies to go maintain the 63 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: integrity of the Republic of Korea. In Vietnam, there was 64 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: no declaration of war. There was the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, 65 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: no matter how flawed that was. Only two members of 66 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: Congress voted against empowering Lyndon Johnson to ante up greater 67 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: forces and respond to attacks committed against the United States 68 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: military forces in both North and South Vietnam. You've had 69 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: authorizations for the use of force in Afghanistan and in 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: Iraq Security Council resolutions from the UN with operations Desert Storm. 71 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: But over and over again, our presidents are bypassing Congress, 72 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: and they're also ignoring the War Powers Act of nineteen 73 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: seventy three. 74 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: So what about these strikes on Iran ordered by the 75 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: president without consulting Congress? Are they unconstitutional? 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: In this case a strike on Iran. You're going to 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: hear legal scholars on both sides, and then you're going 78 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: to hear the our justice departments say, well, the president 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: had the authority to launch a single strike against Iran. 80 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: Now the president has the authority to respond to attacks 81 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: on the United States without a declaration of war under 82 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: international law. And common sense. You'd be hard pressed to 83 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: argue otherwise. But there's no clear answer here as to 84 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: whether the United States was actually threatened at this time 85 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: by Iran. And Trump did not go to Congress. He 86 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: informed some Republicans that we were likely to strike Iran 87 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: because they had moved closer to the production of a 88 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, but that's far short of asking Congress for 89 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: permission to go ahead. 90 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 7: And do it. 91 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: The Justice Department gave very tepid support to it and 92 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: said he had the authority to do it under the Constitution, 93 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: but probably go no further. But unlike even in Syria, 94 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: where Congress has funded military operations, there's no specific funding 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: that anyone could point to that would give Trump the 96 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: outright legal authority to launch strikes into Iran. So what 97 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: we're left with is, is there something that a president 98 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: has under the Constitution that's not written in the Constitution, 99 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: that's inherent that would allow the president to strike under 100 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: these ccumstances or not. And you know, by and large, 101 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: Congress has decided not to weigh in on these issues. 102 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: They had an opportunity to do it with the Nixon 103 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: impeachment in nineteen seventy four over Nixon's expansion of the 104 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: war into Cambodia, but the senior Democrats on the House 105 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee said, no, we're not going to include that 106 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: as an article of impeachment. We've got them on the 107 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: other stuff. And ever since then, Congress has given presidents 108 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: a pass for violating the War Powers Act. You know, 109 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: you'll hear members of Congress on both sides say it's illegal, 110 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: it's unconstitutional, but those are usually members on the extreme 111 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: wings of their party, you know, the Ran Paul's or 112 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: the aocs doing that. And so unfortunately, Congress has kind 113 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: of acquiesced to this idea of a more empowered president 114 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: than ever before, and the courts won't roll on it. 115 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: You mentioned the War Powers Act of nineteen seventy three. 116 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: Tell us what that requires of the president and how 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: it fits in here. 118 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: So, you know, if you go back to the Vietnam 119 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: conflict and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Congress wanted to 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: sort of make amends for punting on the war and 121 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: allowing Lyndon Johnson to go from sixteen thousand, you know, 122 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: military advisors under the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution to almost 123 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: six hundred thousand servicemen and women fighting in the Vietnam War, 124 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: and also make sure that a president does not expand 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: wars like Nixon did into you know, the aerial attack 126 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: in Cambodia in nineteen sixty nine and the invasion in 127 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: seventy and then the air war again in nineteen seventy 128 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: two seventy three. So in nineteen seventy three, Congress passes 129 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: this War Powers Act, Nixon vetos it, but then Congress 130 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: passes it over the veto. So it's a really robust act. 131 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: And here are the provisions of the Act that if 132 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: there's an absence of a declaration of war by Congress, 133 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: the President of the United States has to routinely consult 134 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: with Congress until US armed forces are no longer engaged. 135 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: Now we know that didn't happen in this incident. I mean, 136 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: obviously it was a one time air strike. But it 137 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: seems to me that there was a violation of a 138 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: War Powers Act when President Trump brought in a couple 139 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: of trusted Republicans into the office and said, hey, we're 140 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: going to go ahead. 141 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 7: And do this. 142 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: The president has to do it in forty eight hours 143 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: in writing to the Speaker of the House of Representative 144 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: after the strike that didn't seem to be done either. 145 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: Then there's other parts of the War Powers Act which 146 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: don't necessarily apply right now, but they could, and that is, 147 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: if the president deploys ground forces or air forces passed 148 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: sixty days, it would need congressional approval to do so. 149 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's going to come into play, 150 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: considering Trump has argued that there's a cease fire that exists, 151 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: and there seems to be something of a tenuous cease 152 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: fire before. Trump seem to have violated the War Powers 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: Act in Somalia forming Yugoslavia with Bill Clinton, George W. 154 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: Bush and the like. 155 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 8: You know. 156 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: On the other hand, one could make the argument that 157 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: if you have forward deployed B two bombers in Diego, 158 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: Garcier or Guam place to strike Iran again, the president 159 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: has to get specific approval from Congress to do that. 160 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: They're going to say he doesn't, and I think you'll 161 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: hear some grumbling in Congress. Democrats will say he does, 162 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: but it'll go nowhere. 163 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: Has anyone tried to get the courts involved in this before? 164 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what the courts have said, basically is that 165 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: this question is a nonju justiciable political question. In other words, 166 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: it's outside of the competency of the federal judiciary to 167 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: roll upon. It's the political question, and therefore it goes 168 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: to the Congress to do with what they may. They 169 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: can impeach a president, they have the power of the purse, 170 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: they can inquire and the but the Court simply will 171 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: not respond directly on this point. And you know, on 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: top of that, there have been members of the Supreme 173 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: Court Scalia, notably that question whether the War Powers Act 174 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: was even constitutional. But again, that Act has never seen 175 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: the light of day in the Supreme Court because of 176 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: the political question doctrine. 177 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: Coming up next, what about an authorization for the use 178 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: of military force? President George W. Bush was the last 179 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: US president to successfully seek one in separate request for 180 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: Afghanistan and Iraq before ordering invasions of those countries in 181 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 2: two thousand and one. In two thousand and three, I'm 182 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: June Grosso. When you're listening to Bloomberg, Democrats and some 183 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: Republicans are criticizing President Trump's decision to attack Iran's nuclear sites, 184 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: saying the strikes were unconstitutional and illegal because Trump didn't 185 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: get approval from Congress or consult with lawmakers beforehand. In fact, 186 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: today House Democratic Caucus Chair Pete Aguilar complained that members 187 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: of Congress still hadn't gotten a briefing from the Trump administration, 188 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: though one had been scheduled and then canceled. 189 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: It is completely unacceptable that Congress has not been briefed 190 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 3: on this in a timely fashion. We need evidence, we 191 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 3: need details, and we need to know them now. There 192 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: are a number of outstanding questions, including whether this attack 193 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 3: achieved the administration's stated goals. Launching an attack without congressional 194 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 3: authorization is wrong, but. 195 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: Trump administration officials have said the strikes don't meet the 196 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: definition of war, and House Speaker Republican Mike Johnson has 197 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 2: said he doesn't think a war powers resolution is necessary. 198 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 7: The manner chief has Article two responsibilities. They're very serious 199 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 7: and important, especially in times like this. I think he 200 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 7: used that authority judiciously. 201 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: Democratic Senator Tim Kaine Virginia has introduced a war powers 202 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: resolution against Trump, seeking to bar the president from taking 203 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: further military action in Iran without congressional approval. As of yet, 204 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: a vote on that resolution has not been scheduled. A 205 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: similar resolution has been introduced by lawmakers from both parties 206 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: in the US House. I've been talking to Joshua Castenberg, 207 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: a professor at the University of New Mexico Law School 208 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: and a former judge and prosecutor in the US Air Force. 209 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: Let's talk about an authorization for the use of military force. 210 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: George W. Bush was the last president to successfully seek 211 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: an authorization for the use of military force in separate 212 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 2: requests in Afghanistan and Iraq before ordering invasions of those 213 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: countries in two thousand and one. In two thousand and three. 214 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: Where would that fit in in this scenario. 215 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: Well, you know, if Congress gives the president the authorization 216 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: for the US is the military force. In many instances 217 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: that make sense because if you're fighting a non state 218 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: actor like al Qaeda, you can't really declare war on 219 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: a non state actor. And so what Congress is essentially 220 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: saying to a president is we're going to fund the 221 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: military campaign against al Qaeda, you know, against Iraq. The 222 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: Congress didn't want it, for whatever reason, declare war against 223 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: sade Mussein in the Iraqi government because it would have 224 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: been applied, I suppose, but it was a declaration of 225 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: war against the Iraqi people, and they wanted to avoid that. 226 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: So they authorized the use of military forces in Iraq, 227 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: but specifically to remove weapons of mass destruction. So it's 228 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: like an authorization for the use of force short of 229 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: a declaration of war, you know, for a defined purpose 230 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: and an agreement with the executive branch that there will 231 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: be funding for that military operation. Like I said, it's 232 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: far short of a declaration of war, but it at 233 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: least is a constitutional process. 234 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: When there are sustained military actions. Have presidents in the 235 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: past generally sought approval from Congress? 236 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean George W. Bush, you know, sought 237 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: approval from Congress for funding for the authorization for the 238 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: use of force against both you know, Afghanistan, al Qaeda 239 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: and Iraq. President Obama sought continuing appropriations. I think there 240 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: was an authorization thought by Ronald Reagan in regard to 241 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, the Caribbean Island. You know, it seems like 242 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: so many many years ago, you know, Lyndon Johnson sought 243 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: an authorization for funding for the Dominican Republic operations of 244 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five. But here when we have this attack 245 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: on Iranian nuclear sites, there's been no request for the 246 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: use of force. It was just done. 247 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: Is that sort of in line with what a lot 248 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: of other presidents have done. I mean, we've seen a 249 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: lot of targeted attacks ordered by presidents, and it seems 250 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: like in recent years neither party has sought to limit 251 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: the president's authority in matters like this. 252 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this in a sense, Trump isn't really 253 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: doing something novel. You can go back to, you know, 254 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: the Navy patrolling the Straits and Foremos during the Reagan administration, 255 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: and we certainly engaged in some firefights with the Iranian 256 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: military in those days. You know, it's a question about 257 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: what exactly was permissible in Syria during you know, the 258 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: Obama and first Trump administration. Same with with Libya. But 259 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: there was consultation with Congress during that time. Not necessarily 260 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: popular support in Congress, but at least there was consultations 261 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: with Congress over those operations. What sets this apart is 262 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there was a consultation with Congress 263 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: before the strike, and I think that makes this situation unique. 264 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: And some people might say, well, that's incredibly nuanced, but 265 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:20,359 Speaker 1: it does separate it from from prior military action because. 266 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: There's a difference between informing and consulting. 267 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: Well, there is absolutely and consulting seems to me that 268 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: you have trusted leaders in both parties and you don't 269 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: just cherry pick and say, well, I'm going to get 270 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: my yes people around me, be four or five of them, 271 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: and say hey, we're going to do this, but don't 272 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: share it with anybody else. I mean, consulting means that 273 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: the committees, you know, the Armed Services Committee or the 274 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, generally those committees, particularly in the Senate, get 275 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: along with each other. Those are the non contentious, you 276 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: know committees. Generally, they're trust worthy, and that's who presidents 277 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: have consulted with. 278 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: And Congressional leaders are still waiting for their classified briefing 279 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: that was scheduled for today and then canceled and apparently 280 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: not rescheduled yet. Thanks so much, Josh. That's Professor Johnshua 281 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 2: Castenberg of the University of New Mexico Law School. 282 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 4: Good afternoon. I'm here today with an incredible group of champions, 283 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 4: members of Congress, and advocates for reproductive freedom here in 284 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 4: the United States of America. Today we solemnly gathered to 285 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 4: mark the anniversary of the Dobbs decision, one of the 286 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 4: most unconscionable and Unamerican decisions in the history of the 287 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 4: United States of America. 288 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries joined with other Democratic members 289 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: of the House to mark the third anniversary of the 290 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: Supreme Court decision that took away the constitutional right to abortion, 291 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: established nearly fifty years earlier in the case of Roe 292 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: versus Wade. The Dobbs decision represented the first time in 293 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: our country's history that the Court has taken away a 294 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: constitutional right. The decision upended the politics of abortion. Seventeen 295 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 2: states have six week or total bans on abortion, and 296 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: now anti abortion activists are pushing for new restrictions on 297 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: prescribing and dispensing mifipristone, the method that has become the 298 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: most widely used form of abortion care today. Democratic Senator 299 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: Patty Murray of Washington warned about the possible consequences of 300 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 2: the review of the data on mifipristone ordered by Health 301 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior. 302 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 8: Trump's FDA recently announced it will undertake a comprehensive review 303 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 8: of mifipristone. Why because of discredited junk sign It's from 304 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 8: the same anti abortion activists who helped write Project twenty 305 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 8: twenty five, and unfortunately we know exactly where this is going. 306 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 8: Trump ripping Christone off the shelves, reinstating unnecessary restrictions, banning 307 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 8: telehealth prescriptions, and curtailing access in every single state. 308 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: My guest is healthcare attorney Harry Nelson, a partner at 309 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: leech Tishman Nelson Hardiman. Harry tell us about the landscape 310 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: of abortion since the Supreme Court's Dobbs decision, which overturned 311 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: roe versus Wade. 312 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 7: Today is the third anniversary of the Dobbs decision overturning 313 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 7: Roby Wade. So what happened in the last three years 314 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 7: is that, depending on how you count, twelve or thirteen 315 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 7: states have enacted what are effectively near total bans prohibiting abortion. 316 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 7: In a handful of states to Dave's mother's life, about 317 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 7: five or six dates have passed partial bans by putting 318 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 7: early justational limits where any kind of abortion is banned 319 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 7: after a fetal heartbeat is detected, which is usually six weeks. 320 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 7: So between those two categories we have nineteen or twenty 321 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 7: states that have put in bands that we have a 322 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 7: few other states that have put in second trimester bans 323 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 7: on abortions that we're legal in the time of Roe v. Wade, 324 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 7: So that's been a huge restriction. We've had voters in 325 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 7: a number of states, you know, voting to keep abortion 326 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 7: rights in place, in states like Missouri and Arizona, states 327 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 7: where they struck down bands. And then there's legislation in 328 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 7: at least ten or twelve states to protect abortion rights 329 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 7: more expansively, including to allow doctors in those states to 330 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 7: practice across state lines through what are called shield laws. 331 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 7: So we've seen really a complete remaking and carving up 332 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 7: of the map of different states taking hostile positions, taking 333 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 7: protective positions, and a very different looking America than we 334 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 7: had with respect to abortion three years ago. 335 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: Harriet may seem surprising to some that despite all the 336 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 2: states with near or total bands on abortion, that the 337 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: number of abortions in this country has steadily increased according 338 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: to new data from the Society of Family Planning. Explain 339 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: why the numbers are increasing. 340 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a really interesting phenomenon. I think in many ways, 341 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 7: the discussion of all these abortion restrictions has kind of 342 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 7: drawn attention to the availability of abortion via telemedicine and 343 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 7: via medications that women can take in the privacy of 344 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 7: their own homes. So we've created a much greater level 345 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 7: of awareness of abortion options. We've created just a much 346 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 7: more educated group of patients who understand what their options are, 347 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 7: and we've created options for cross state patient flows, so 348 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 7: we've seen some patients traveling, some patients ordering medications online. 349 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 7: So if the goal was to actually shrink the number 350 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 7: of total abortions, there's actually not only no evidence that 351 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 7: the repeal did that, but we've actually had some kind 352 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 7: of a modest increase in the total volume of abortion. 353 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: So medication abortion has become the most widely used form 354 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 2: of abortion. It accounted for sixty three percent of all 355 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: abortions nationwide in twenty twenty three. But anti abortion activists 356 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: are pushing for new restrictions on prescribing and dispensing the 357 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: abortion drug mifipristone, and now Health and Human Services Secretary 358 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy Junior has ordered a review of mifa pristone. 359 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 2: Is that, as ominous as it sounds, MiFi pristone has 360 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: been found to be effective and safe in studies. 361 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 7: So the opening of pellamedicine as a means of women 362 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 7: getting mifipristone by mail really opened up in the pandemic 363 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 7: as a result of the dropping of some of the 364 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 7: restrictions on telemedicine and mailing of publications. In the case 365 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 7: of abortion, we had had a restriction in place through 366 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 7: an FDA process called REM's Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategies, 367 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 7: by which the medication had only been available on an 368 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 7: in person basis. There was a required in person review, 369 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 7: so that went away basically in twenty twenty one, and 370 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 7: that had been the law. We had a challenge last 371 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 7: year in the Spreme Court, where the Supreme Court unanimously 372 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 7: ruled that in the Alliance Forrismocratic Medicine case that there 373 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 7: was no standing to challenge the FDA's authority. But what 374 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 7: happened in May last month was that RFK, as Secretary 375 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 7: of the Department of Health and Human Services, directed the 376 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 7: FDA Commissioner to review the safety data, essentially to consider 377 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 7: whether there are elevated complication rates. Many people who are 378 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 7: observing this believe that this was a freak to essentially 379 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 7: a rollback of the allowance for telemedicine and mailing of 380 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 7: mifipristone by the FDA and a return to some kind 381 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 7: of restriction on the drug. Obviously, there's a lot of 382 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 7: concern because the clinical data does not suggest any tightened 383 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 7: risk or any problems that are occurring as a result 384 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 7: of the greater access and accessibility of mephipristone. So a 385 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 7: lot of people are worried that what is happening right 386 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 7: now is kind of a lead up to an action 387 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 7: later this year or next year to kind of roll 388 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 7: back the availability of telemedicine and mailing of medications through 389 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 7: FDA restriction. 390 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: Has the Trump administration also tried in different ways to 391 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: restrict access to abortions. 392 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 7: There are a number of other places where we can 393 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 7: see that the administration is acting to restrict access to abortion. 394 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 7: We've seen a change in the hip Hop privacy rules 395 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 7: where certain protections were put in to limit access to 396 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 7: records of providers and use privacy to protect interstate inquiries. 397 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 7: That executive order has been essentially canceled by the Trump administration. 398 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 7: We've had the Trump administration, through Health and Human Services, 399 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 7: dropping requirements that were imposed in the Biden administration that 400 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 7: hospitals you must provide abortion in life threatening emergencies. We've 401 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 7: had the Trump administration moving to defund clinics like planned 402 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 7: PARENTID clinics that are providing abortion care. And we've seen 403 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 7: over and over again again in the filings made on 404 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 7: behalf of the FDA through the Trump administration that there's 405 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 7: a backing off of a lot of the protection of abortion. 406 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 7: So all of these are kind of little piecemeal steps 407 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 7: by which the Trump administration is essentially looking for, whether 408 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 7: it's through funding or otherwise through its regulatory strategy and messaging, 409 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 7: to be more hostile certainly and less supportive of abortion rights. 410 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: Are there provisions in the so called Big Beautiful Bill 411 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: that would hurt abortion rights? 412 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, there's several provisions in the Big Beautiful Bill that 413 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 7: would have significant implications for abortion access. Certainly, there's a 414 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 7: there's language to cut all Medicaid payments to clinics, including 415 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 7: Planned Parenthood, that provide abortions. There's a elimination of certain 416 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 7: costs sharing subsidies for Affordable Care Act marketplace exchange policies 417 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 7: that cover abortions, sort of forcing individuals to who are 418 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 7: on those plans to pay out a pocket for that coverage. 419 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 7: And there's a broader splashing of essentially, if the House 420 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 7: version passes eight hundred billion dollars from Medicaid, that would 421 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 7: definitely have an impact on unlimiting access to abortion. 422 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: Is it surprising that abortion wasn't a defining issue in 423 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: the last elections? 424 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 7: It was clear that it's for a majority of voters 425 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 7: support for abortion, you know, which remains consistent something not 426 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 7: quite two thirds of all Americans spreads support for abortion 427 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 7: being legal in all or most cases, and only less 428 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 7: than ten percent think it should be you know, broadly illegal. Nonetheless, 429 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 7: like that was not a basis on which people voted 430 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 7: in the presidential election, and so it's a really interesting question, 431 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 7: you know, how much you know the next cycle of 432 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 7: elections this fall and next year in the midterms are 433 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 7: going to be driven by abortion rights. It's very clear 434 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 7: that when you put the abortion issue narrowly before voters, 435 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 7: even in socially conservative states, you will find a majority 436 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 7: of voters expressing a desire for abortion access in almost 437 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 7: all cases. So it's only when you sort of bring 438 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 7: it make it create a more complicated situation of a 439 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 7: general election where people have to vote on a whole 440 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 7: series of issues, that you see abortion dropping as a 441 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 7: voting issue. Clearly, we see in the data that women 442 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 7: are more supportive than men slightly of abortion it's a 443 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 7: less driving issue for voting. But again, the message to 444 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 7: me of the twenty twenty four election is that if 445 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 7: there is a complicated enough mix of social and policy 446 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 7: issues before voters, abortion is not winning the day as 447 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 7: the overriding decision. Whether it was the economy or or 448 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 7: you know, any number of other things. Abortion did not 449 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 7: carry the day with voters in Abortion rights did not, 450 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 7: and you know, in the presidential election, and I think 451 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 7: it's going to be an interesting question to see whether 452 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 7: that shifts at all as we approach the next elections. 453 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 2: So where do you see the battle for abortion rights 454 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 2: in the future. 455 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 7: I mean, I think we're clearly seeing that, you know, 456 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 7: the state battle grounds are the centerpiece of the fight. 457 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 7: But I think, you know, it's going to be really 458 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 7: interesting to see what happens at the FDA and at 459 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 7: the Supreme Court. One of the really interesting battles to 460 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 7: watch is the battle over shield laws. We currently have 461 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 7: doctors in abortion permissive states, or at least one doctor 462 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 7: being prosecuted criminally, you know, by assul abortion restrictive states, 463 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 7: and you know, this battle going on over whether doctors 464 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 7: can practice across state lines to provide abortion care. So 465 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 7: Spring Court's going to have to weigh in on that issue. 466 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 7: We're going to have the FDA making some decision on 467 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 7: and the Spreme Court likely also called on to weigh 468 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 7: access to mister prissonis the abortion medication. So I do 469 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 7: think there's a lot of game left to be played, 470 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 7: but I suspect it's less at the ballot box nationally 471 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 7: and much more with referenda at the state level and 472 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 7: decisions before the Federal Supreme Court and state Supreme courts 473 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 7: as this continues to play out. 474 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Harry. That's Healthcare at Journey Harry Neilson, 475 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: and that's it for this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. 476 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on 477 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: our Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 478 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 2: and at www dot Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast slash Law, 479 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every 480 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: weeknight at ten Wall Street time. I'm June Grosso and 481 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: you're listening to Bloomberg MHM.