WEBVTT - Part Two: The Dumbest Coup In World History

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<v Speaker 1>It's the part of the second to Now that's not

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<v Speaker 1>how we should introduce a podcast. Welcome back to Behind

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<v Speaker 1>the Bastards. This is a podcast about terrible people. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is part two of our series on the Wonga Coup,

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<v Speaker 1>which started as an episode about a coup, but the

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<v Speaker 1>first part was really just a more general description about

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<v Speaker 1>the history of coups in Africa as both a literary

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<v Speaker 1>tradition and as a real attempted thing, ending with the

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<v Speaker 1>terrible story of the dictators of Equatorial Guinea. My guest

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<v Speaker 1>on part two, as with part one, is Bridget Todd.

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<v Speaker 1>I get that. I get the fake airhorns. I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a national here. Yeah, sadly there's a national airhorn shortage,

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<v Speaker 1>so we were out of the real ones. But when

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<v Speaker 1>when those come back in stock, I will I will

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<v Speaker 1>force our editor to put them back in. Please do.

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<v Speaker 1>I I will only go on podcasts where I am

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<v Speaker 1>introduced the plot with airhorn, so please please do. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it should be illegal to introduce people any

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<v Speaker 1>other way, to be honest, Like, can you imagine if

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<v Speaker 1>that's how like like first dates always went, and just

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<v Speaker 1>like anytime you're out at the bar, you just randomly

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<v Speaker 1>hear you like because like two people are meeting on

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<v Speaker 1>tender or something. I love it. My people are Caribbeans,

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<v Speaker 1>so we love a good airhorn. Oh yeah, yeah you do.

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<v Speaker 1>I would really like some sort of sound effect to

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<v Speaker 1>let me know if it's like a cute meat or

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<v Speaker 1>if it's like this guy is or this person is horrifying,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I would like to know that. I would like

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<v Speaker 1>some sort of sound of what to happen. What would

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<v Speaker 1>be your horrifying sound effect for a for a date?

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<v Speaker 1>What's the what's the theme song of Hannity? I'm Sean

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<v Speaker 1>Hanny dy I eat man at Tease. I think that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure that's that's basically it. Yeah, yeah, Bridget,

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<v Speaker 1>you are the host of a new podcast launching next

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<v Speaker 1>month h called There Are No Women on the Internet. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's true. Uh, it's not mostly true. It launches on

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<v Speaker 1>July seven, and it's called there Are No Girls on

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<v Speaker 1>the Internet. But you got the broad stroke? Oh wait,

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<v Speaker 1>June is after Okay, yep, sorry, well I got the

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<v Speaker 1>broad strokes. And speaking of broad strokes, let's get the

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<v Speaker 1>broad strokes of this coup, right, Um. Yeah, I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>master of transitions. Thank you. Uh. So, yeah, we we

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<v Speaker 1>ended our episode talking about the dictators of Equatorial Guinea

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<v Speaker 1>and this attempted coup that didn't turn into a coup

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<v Speaker 1>but did turn into a successful book, which is, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what level of privilege that is,

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<v Speaker 1>where you like attempt to overthrow a sovereign nation in

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<v Speaker 1>order to make a profit and fail but still get

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<v Speaker 1>rich off of the book. Like that's that's like I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like there's another level of white privilege that's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know how to describe that. That's like

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<v Speaker 1>platinum white privilege that it's like yeah, like yeah, that

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<v Speaker 1>is some like ultra uncut pure white privilege. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of white privilege you need the Costco card

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<v Speaker 1>to take advantage of, right, Like you gotta pay an

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<v Speaker 1>extra sixty five dollars. There's a yearly subscription that you

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<v Speaker 1>have to pay into for that. So yeah, so yes, um,

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<v Speaker 1>and now we're going to start So, so we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>go back in time again. And now that we've explained

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<v Speaker 1>all of these coups and mercenaries in the situation in

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<v Speaker 1>Equatorial Guinea, we're going to go back in time, um

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about another mercenary before we get back to

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<v Speaker 1>Equatorial Guinea, and this mercenary's name is Simon Francis man

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<v Speaker 1>Uh Now Simon was born on June nineteen fifty two.

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<v Speaker 1>His family were British as all hell, I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>Irish British so like British people who became part or

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<v Speaker 1>Irish people who like did all enough to become part

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<v Speaker 1>of the British aristocracy and got to be a lot

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<v Speaker 1>less Irish as a result of things. Anyway, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>really know. Um. The man family wealth came from brewing,

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<v Speaker 1>and right around the same time Simon was born, his

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<v Speaker 1>family sold their family business to a big company in

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<v Speaker 1>return for a pile of cash and a seat on

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<v Speaker 1>the board. This meant that Simon grew up very comfortable,

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<v Speaker 1>but it also meant that he would need to find

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<v Speaker 1>a new career for himself when he grew up. Taking

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<v Speaker 1>over the family business would not be an option. In

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<v Speaker 1>the grand tradition of all fancy English people, his parents

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<v Speaker 1>sent him the funk Away to spend his childhood and Eaton,

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<v Speaker 1>which is frequently referred to as the nursery of England's

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<v Speaker 1>gentleman uh Eaton, is probably the most prestigious high school

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<v Speaker 1>on the planet. Boris Johnson went there, as did David Cameron,

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<v Speaker 1>Prince William, Prince Harry, Tom Hittleston, and in general about

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<v Speaker 1>thirty of all of the famous British men who have

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<v Speaker 1>ever lived like it eatens where you go if you're

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<v Speaker 1>a fancy British boy. Now this is like some like

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<v Speaker 1>very fancy British white guy shit. I feel yeah, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is like this is this is the peak of

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<v Speaker 1>fancy British white guy ship like it does it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>get I would say the whitest thing it is possible

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<v Speaker 1>to be is a British person who went to Eaton.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that's that's like like top tier of of white dude.

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<v Speaker 1>Like very few of us are that white mm hmm. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Eating currently cost fifty two dollars a year in tuition,

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<v Speaker 1>and the cost was broadly similar when Simon went there.

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<v Speaker 1>Only students from age thirteen to eighteen are accepted, and

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<v Speaker 1>the application process starts at age ten. Eating students each

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<v Speaker 1>get their own separate room. Students are split up into

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<v Speaker 1>fifty person houses where these boys are watched over by

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<v Speaker 1>a full time staff supervised by what a Business Insider

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<v Speaker 1>article I found calls a hired dame. Yeah, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't imagine having that on your resume. Yeah, I was

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<v Speaker 1>a hired dame for about four years in the nineteen nineties. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and they also couldn't they couldn't just call it like

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<v Speaker 1>an r A like here, like familiar with It has

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<v Speaker 1>to be a hired dame. Poor people have r a's

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<v Speaker 1>bridget Rich people have hired dames. And I do think

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<v Speaker 1>like your r a's job is just to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>nobody burns the building down. Really like a hired dame.

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<v Speaker 1>They're doing a lot. More so, like she's managing this

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<v Speaker 1>whole staff of people who like adults, So all these

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<v Speaker 1>kids when the eighteen are living alone in little apartments

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<v Speaker 1>and having an entire staff of adults clean for them,

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<v Speaker 1>um clean their clothing, like, launder their clothing, cook food

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<v Speaker 1>for them, and like this woman whose job it is

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<v Speaker 1>to manage all of the people who manages their lives,

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<v Speaker 1>like it's this kind of imagine what that does for

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<v Speaker 1>you as a little kid growing up, Like it's yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it would really fuck me up to

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<v Speaker 1>have an adult woman doing all this ship for me,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm a little kid. I feel that there's no

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<v Speaker 1>way I can come out of that being well adjusted. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's probably the case with Etonians, as they're known.

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<v Speaker 1>So after rich Boy High school, Man joined the military

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<v Speaker 1>and went into officer training at the Royal Military Academy

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<v Speaker 1>at Sandhurst. In addition to being Brewers, the men and

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<v Speaker 1>his family had a long history of military service. Simon

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<v Speaker 1>graduated and followed in his father's footsteps by accepting a

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<v Speaker 1>commission in the Royal Scots Guards. He was good at soldiering,

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<v Speaker 1>and after a few years he applied to join the

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<v Speaker 1>Special Air Service, Britain's equivalent to the Navy Seals. He

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<v Speaker 1>eventually became a troop commander in the s A S

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<v Speaker 1>and specialized in counter terrorism and intelligence gathering. Both of

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<v Speaker 1>those specialties will become powerfully ironic as we go along,

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<v Speaker 1>but for now. Simon did his three year rotation and

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<v Speaker 1>then returned to the regular Army, where he was stationed

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<v Speaker 1>in Northern Ireland. He bounced around Cold War era Europe

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<v Speaker 1>in Central America until the early nineteen eighties, when he

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<v Speaker 1>grew bored of army life and retired. Man immediately moved

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<v Speaker 1>to the private military sector, joining a company run by

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<v Speaker 1>S A. S founder David Sterling, who was pretty close

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<v Speaker 1>to just being a straight up fascist. Uh. And in

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<v Speaker 1>general Old Man's friends during this period were members of

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<v Speaker 1>like a trend in British conservatism that started in the

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<v Speaker 1>early nineteen seventies when the Labor Party won control of

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<v Speaker 1>the government and right wingers began ranting about communist infiltration.

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<v Speaker 1>In the early seventies, Sterling, his boss, had solicited volunteers

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<v Speaker 1>to join what he called a strike breaking army to

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<v Speaker 1>destroy the unions in Britain violently. Um. This put him

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<v Speaker 1>ideologically right in line with Margaret Thatcher's political mentor airy Neive,

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<v Speaker 1>who urged a right wing coup against the Labor government.

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<v Speaker 1>Oddly enough, this also put Sterling and his fellows right

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<v Speaker 1>in line with David Bowie, who openly supported an extreme

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<v Speaker 1>right wing government and stated in the early seventies that

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<v Speaker 1>Britain needed a dictator. Yeah, but you know that about

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<v Speaker 1>David Bowie, did you. Yeah, when like in the seventies,

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<v Speaker 1>when unions got super powerful in England and uh, the

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<v Speaker 1>Labor government started winning a bunch of David Bowie, an

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<v Speaker 1>extreme right wing government and a coup and a dictator. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know this is like when you're presented with, like

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<v Speaker 1>when you know, the idea of a problematic saves, when

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<v Speaker 1>you're presented with some unfavorable information about somebody that you

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<v Speaker 1>love and you're like, I pretend I do not see it.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's like I'm like, ohs it Sylvie

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<v Speaker 1>with your Lager's jersey. Of course. Exactly, yeah, exactly, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, as much as we may try to be here,

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<v Speaker 1>we all have someone like that. I love what I

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<v Speaker 1>love Bill Shatner, and he's objectively a monster. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>the talk of coups on the British right wing mostly

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<v Speaker 1>died down in nineteen seventy nine when Margaret Thatcher was

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<v Speaker 1>elected Prime Minister, but Simon Mann's social circle in the

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<v Speaker 1>early eighties was made up almost exclusively of folks who

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<v Speaker 1>were unabashed supporters of violently suppressing the left. He worked

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<v Speaker 1>with David Sterling's company as a rent a mercenary and

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<v Speaker 1>hobnobbed with high society. But a desk job didn't suit Man,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was already getting restless by the time his boss,

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<v Speaker 1>Guy in trouble for misusing funds donated to this to

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<v Speaker 1>a charitable foundation. Lucky for him, by this point, Saddam

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<v Speaker 1>Hussein had invaded Kuwait and the British military was suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>involved in something interesting again. Man re enlisted and joined

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<v Speaker 1>British Army staff in Saudi Arabia. The war didn't last long,

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<v Speaker 1>and in its wake, Simon Mann was left more bored

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<v Speaker 1>and restless than ever. He got involved with an oil

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<v Speaker 1>firm that was investing in the newly emerged oil industry

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<v Speaker 1>in Angola, and as luck would have it, just as

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<v Speaker 1>Man started sniffing around Angola in nineteen ninety two, the

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<v Speaker 1>nation found itself in the midst of a civil war.

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<v Speaker 1>Now Angola's second largest political party, UNITA, had started out

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<v Speaker 1>as a left wing organization supported by the People's Republic

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<v Speaker 1>of China, but during the nineteen eighties UNITA had pivoted

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<v Speaker 1>to the hard right under the command of Jonas Savimbi.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks to our old buddy Paul Manafort, it received piles

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<v Speaker 1>and piles of money and guns from the Reagan administration

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<v Speaker 1>during this period. In nineteen ninety two, UNITA troops overran

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<v Speaker 1>several oil pump thing of a jigs near a town

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<v Speaker 1>called Soyo. The Angolan army failed to retake the will field.

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<v Speaker 1>Now this was a threat to Man's investments in the area,

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<v Speaker 1>but more than that, it was an opportunity. He and

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<v Speaker 1>his business partner, an entrepreneur named Tony Buckingham, approached the

0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.520
<v Speaker 1>government of Angola and said, Hey, we're pretty sure we

0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.800
<v Speaker 1>could put together a mercenary army to take care of

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<v Speaker 1>this rebel problem for you, and Angola said, yes, it

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<v Speaker 1>really is that easy, or at least it was in

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<v Speaker 1>the early nineties too. Get your own army. Yeah, that's cool,

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<v Speaker 1>totally cool. Like, wouldn't it be cool if you could

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<v Speaker 1>just like a master or own army with that amount

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<v Speaker 1>of ease, welcome back come about. Yeah, I mean that's

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm trying to do with this whole fd A thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But um, it's it's it's harder than I thought to

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<v Speaker 1>amass your own army, to be honest, frustrating. What would

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<v Speaker 1>what would your the what would your army be called?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I think I don't know. I I uh,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you're right. Maybe that's why I haven't gotten an

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<v Speaker 1>army yet, is that I haven't figured out the branding

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<v Speaker 1>for it. Yeah, that's a shame. I'll have to think

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<v Speaker 1>about that. Bridget So the whole, the whole, Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann and his partner Buckingham got to follow in

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<v Speaker 1>the grand tradition established by Bob Dinnard in myke Cory.

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<v Speaker 1>Only unlike those men, they were helping to keep a

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<v Speaker 1>ruler in power and actually fighting against far right militants.

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<v Speaker 1>So you might call this a promising start, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least as promising a start as any mercenary outfit can have. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, broadly. Um. It doesn't end well, though, As

0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Adam Roberts notes, Quote Man, however, was a little different.

0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 1>He was as likely to wear a crumpled business suit

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.600
<v Speaker 1>as riomless spectacles and rimless spectacles as camouflage or chest webbing.

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.079
<v Speaker 1>He was an early example of a new sort of mercenary,

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>the type familiar with company law, bank transfers, and investor agreements,

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.320
<v Speaker 1>as with the workings of a browning pistol. In other words,

0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann was probably the first example of a modern

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.679
<v Speaker 1>mercenary leader, the prototype for men like Eric Prince so

0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 1>before him. Mercenaries are like these, like really hard bitten people,

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.840
<v Speaker 1>like guys who go to war in their youth and

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.199
<v Speaker 1>never escape it, and like you know, like Bob Dinnard

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.240
<v Speaker 1>in My Corey, like those those dudes saw heavy, heavy combat,

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and it just like they were just fucked up in

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 1>a way that this was all they could do, and

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.920
<v Speaker 1>all of their men were kind of the same way.

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann is someone who is perfectly capable of succeeding

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.960
<v Speaker 1>in the non shooting people world, and in fact has

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 1>been very successful in that, but he likes the excitement

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.679
<v Speaker 1>of war, so he's like he gets involved in this

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 1>mercenary company as a business um, and he's really the

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>first example of that. He's the Eric Prince type, right, um,

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.400
<v Speaker 1>where he's a good he's good at running a corporation,

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.680
<v Speaker 1>and he also just thinks it's cool to have an army. Um.

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's that's kind of the sort of dude that

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.440
<v Speaker 1>man is. And he blazes a trail. Yeah, I feel

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.839
<v Speaker 1>like that's really a dangerous recipe, that kind of that

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:53.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of dude who thinks it's it's cool to have

0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 1>an army. Yeah. Yeah, because he's gonna use it. You know.

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.320
<v Speaker 1>There's something to be said. Like Mike Horrer, as we

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 1>talked about, was a monster, like killed a ton of people,

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>super racist, but at least he got shot at a lot.

0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Like he and his men like they like he he

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.119
<v Speaker 1>he didn't. He wasn't just like sitting in a boardroom

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 1>while people committed murder on his behalf like he was.

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.959
<v Speaker 1>He was out there, and I guess that's something Simon

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Mann is going to be the sits in a boardroom

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:27.640
<v Speaker 1>while people get shot kind of leader. Um yeah, so yeah,

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 1>he was not really an adrenaline junkie um in the

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.720
<v Speaker 1>in in the traditional way, Like he wasn't addicted to

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 1>like running into combat and getting shot at directly. He

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 1>was happy staying behind the lines and basically playing. Like

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 1>you get the feeling that running a mercenary army for

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann is like what a lot of people get

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>out of playing real time strategy video games. Like that's

0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of what he likes about it is it's like

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 1>the stakes and stuff. Um so yeah. He hires a

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>bunch of South African and British mercenaries to fill out

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>his army. These are white and mostly black men who

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 1>had worked in counter terrorism, which counter terrorism within the

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>South African context in this period meant that they had

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>been supporting the apartheid government of South Africa and fighting

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 1>against like Nelson Mandela and his crew. Um So, for

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>the sake of having a corporate structure and all the

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.720
<v Speaker 1>legal permits necessary to buy guns and stuff. Man somehow

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 1>wound up in control of a private security firm called

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 1>Executive Outcomes. We'll talk about them a little bit later.

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 1>The bulk of his soldiers were veterans of the thirty

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 1>two Battalion, which is a veteran South African unit who

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 1>had fought in Angola before, and they've been fighting on

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 1>the same side as Jonas Savimbi then because the apartheid

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 1>government backed this far right militia. But since the apartheid

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>government had fallen, you know, they just wound up on

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>the other side, fighting against these guys that they fought

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>alongside before, which actually works out great because they know

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>all their tricks. Um thirty two Battalion had a reputation

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>for toughness and for viciousness. Their nickname was the Terrible Ones,

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.080
<v Speaker 1>and in February of nineteen three they got a chance

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>to prove they deserve the name. Man's Little Army launched

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 1>an assault to retake the oil fields of Soil, supported

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>by the Angolan Air Force and army. The core of

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 1>their force was just twenty five men, but these were

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 1>hardened veterans, and they had the assault skills necessary to

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 1>act as the tip of the spear for the undisciplined

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 1>and largely amateur and Golan army. The Unita rebels were

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 1>forced to retreat and the end Goolan Army to established

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a beachhead on the Soyu oil field. The success so

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>You earned Executive Outcomes a reputation for ferocity and competence.

0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 1>The England government offered Man an eighty million dollar contract

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>if his firm would help them continue the war against

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Unita and train the regular Angolan army. More battles followed,

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and Executive Outcomes expanded into a much larger force, eventually

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 1>reaching more than a thousand regular employees, and Goalie even

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>let Man help run their air force. In nineteen nine four,

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>they carried out what Man claimed was the largest combined

0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 1>arms attack in Africa since World War Two, forcing UNITA

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 1>out of the Soyu oil fields entirely. So he it

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.480
<v Speaker 1>seems like it's working out so far. Uh in The

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 1>mid nineties were in general probably a pretty happy time

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 1>for Simon Mann. He expanded his little army into a

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:06.000
<v Speaker 1>medium sized army, complete with planes and helicopters. From nine

0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>to nineteen ninety six. They fought numerous battles in Angola

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 1>and other African countries. Twenty one Executive Outcomes men were

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 1>killed in various clashes, but they racked up a much

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 1>higher death toll among the rebels they fought. Unita was

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.720
<v Speaker 1>largely funded by diamond mines, and Man's contract specified that

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 1>he got a cut of any diamond mine freed by

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.879
<v Speaker 1>his men. So this is really interesting because it leads

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to they don't just get like a percentage of the profits.

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Executive outcomes like as part of like a web of companies,

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.680
<v Speaker 1>and it's almost impossible. I don't think anyone has ever

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 1>really done a good job of unraveling all of them.

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 1>But Simon Mann and his business partners create like multiple

0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.360
<v Speaker 1>different companies, including a mining company that they have actually

0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 1>like they get a contract to run these diamond mines

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.680
<v Speaker 1>that they liberate with their soldiers, and then the mining

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>company that Simon Man owned starts mining the diamonds, so

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 1>they get money from the diamond mining. UM. He creates

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.959
<v Speaker 1>a subsidiary called branch in g which does a lot

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>of the oil extractions. And this is where things start

0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>to get really fucking complicated. UM and In fact, things

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 1>have been complicated from the beginning because at this point

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.280
<v Speaker 1>in Africa, all of these different fucking mercenary companies and

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 1>mining companies are all like like it's it's it's shady

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 1>fucking corporate ship. Like where you you'll have like twenty

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>different companies that are all really the same company run

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 1>by the same three or four guides, but they're different

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 1>companies on paper. Um. So, like Executive Outcomes had started

0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>as a front company for a South African war criminals

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that he could evade international arms embargoes. And I don't

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 1>really know how Man wound up running it, but like

0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 1>Man wound up basically using this as like the face

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.920
<v Speaker 1>for his company, even though like the real company actually

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 1>doing most of the fighting for Executive Outcomes was another

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 1>company Man had founded called Sandline. Like it's all fucking

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 1>stupidly complicated. Um And to make matters even more complicated,

0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.199
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of other shady companies that we all know

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.879
<v Speaker 1>and love were involved to for so, for example, that

0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 1>big first deal that Executive Outcomes brokeren with Angola to

0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 1>have their their their fucking mercenary army liberate those diamond minds.

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 1>It was brokered by de beers, so like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.560
<v Speaker 1>we all know to beers. Yeah, this is like tail

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 1>as old as time when it comes to fucking like

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>rich gas companies, like shell companies, you know, it's like

0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.400
<v Speaker 1>this is tales all the time, like companies where it's

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 1>all like, oh, these different companies with like crazy names

0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's all one company, but they were actually like

0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.400
<v Speaker 1>five companies. All you need to know is that, like

0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 1>somebody is getting fucking paid and shady shit is happening, right, Yeah.

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.760
<v Speaker 1>All you really need to know about this in particular

0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>is that like Simon Mann and a handful of his

0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.119
<v Speaker 1>friends at the top, who are all white dudes, are

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 1>getting paid millions of dollars and all of the fighting

0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 1>and dying is being done by mercenaries sixty or seventy

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>percent of whom are black guys. Um, And they're not

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.840
<v Speaker 1>getting paid so much like it's good money for them.

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.960
<v Speaker 1>It ain't Simon Man money, um, because the real moneys

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 1>and the diamonds in the oil um. The mercenaries are

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 1>just a way to get at the diamonds in the

0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.159
<v Speaker 1>oil um. Yeah, and you'll hear a lot of like

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.920
<v Speaker 1>libertarian types talk about how good a job Executive Outcomes

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 1>did here um, and they did a great job at

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 1>fighting Unita, but they didn't really care about stabilizing Angola.

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.840
<v Speaker 1>They cared about stabilizing the mines and oil fields of

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Angola and the roads that lad those two distribution centers UM,

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.000
<v Speaker 1>which is why they didn't actually achieve any long term

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 1>security for the region. UM. So yeah, by nine, Executive

0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Outcomes was effectively a giant web of companies, all more

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.520
<v Speaker 1>or less run by Simon Mann and his buddy Buckingham,

0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 1>with interest in mining, oil, security, air transport, and everything imaginable.

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.520
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen the government of Sierra Leone went to Executive

0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.639
<v Speaker 1>Outcomes begging for their help and suppressing a brutal insurgent

0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.639
<v Speaker 1>group called the RUF. Now, the RUF had been formed

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.160
<v Speaker 1>by a disaffected army corporal and they basically gone from

0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.719
<v Speaker 1>fringe political armed group to violent psychopaths. Their trademark tactic

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 1>was severing the arms of their victims. Depending on how

0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 1>pissed they were, ore UF men would either give short

0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.520
<v Speaker 1>sleeves where they amputated just the hand, or long sleeves

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.200
<v Speaker 1>where they took the whole arm. So yeah, these guys

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>are bad uh and they're kicking the ship out of

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.480
<v Speaker 1>the government to Sierra Leone, and a big part of

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>why is that they're receiving money in arms from Liberian

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.639
<v Speaker 1>President Charles Taylor. And so in short order, Sierra Leone

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 1>is near collapse and Executive Outcomes gets hired. They come

0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.600
<v Speaker 1>in and they effectively changed that. They pushed the rebels

0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 1>back and focus heavily on retaking diamond minds the RUF

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 1>had occupied. This was a decent tactic, but it was

0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 1>also very profitable. The Sierra Leonese government had awarded a

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>lucrative diamond mining contract to Branch Energy, a subsidiary of

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.879
<v Speaker 1>Executive Outcomes UM, and the Executive Outcomes war against the

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 1>r u F went well enough that in nineties seven

0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 1>seven ninety seven, Sierra Leone was able to hold elections. Now,

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the story that comes next is really complicated. The story

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 1>the site you usually here is like again kind of

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.439
<v Speaker 1>the libertarian mercenaries are good story, which is that like

0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Executive Outcomes comes in, they stabilize Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 1>has their first independent elections that are like decent, and

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 1>then the I m F and the UN pressure the

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 1>new president to sign a peace deal with the r

0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.399
<v Speaker 1>UF that includes them forcing out executive outcomes. And as

0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.399
<v Speaker 1>soon as that happens, the r u F goes on

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>the offensive again and the co countries drawn into war.

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:26.440
<v Speaker 1>And if you know, these mercenaries have been allowed to

0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.320
<v Speaker 1>keep doing their job, Sierra Leone would have stayed peaceful.

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:30.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's the fault of the the u N and

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.840
<v Speaker 1>the i m F. There's certainly blamed for the u

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>N and the i m F in here, but also

0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.439
<v Speaker 1>documents that have been released more recently show that the

0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.399
<v Speaker 1>President of the United States actually pressured or sorry that

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.159
<v Speaker 1>the president of Sierra Leone went to UH, the United

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 1>States and was like, I want to kick these mercenaries

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.120
<v Speaker 1>out because I don't think they're good for the country.

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Will you demand that I kick them out so that

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 1>I have an excuse to say that I've like that,

0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:58.840
<v Speaker 1>like the international communities forcing me to force these guys out.

0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>It's actually much more complicated than people who just want

0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:07.240
<v Speaker 1>to make this into a pro mercenary story want to see. Um, yeah,

0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 1>it's fucking it's it's a whole mess. This this, this

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.359
<v Speaker 1>whole story is a mess. And if it was true

0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 1>that like mercenaries were good, and if they've been allowed

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:18.360
<v Speaker 1>to do their thing, Sierra Leone would have stayed in peace. Um.

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Then Sierra Leone probably wouldn't have had a civil war

0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.359
<v Speaker 1>that lasted for years, because mercenaries continued to be a

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 1>part of the fighting in Sierra Leone for the entirety

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of the nineties and into the early two thousands. And

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.120
<v Speaker 1>in fact, the government of Sierra Leone, after kicking Executive

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Outcomes out, hired Sandline International, which was a subsidiary of

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Executive Outcomes, to back the Nigerian Army and its peacekeeping there.

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 1>And things were still bloody for years. So it's just

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.040
<v Speaker 1>like a big fucking stupid mess. But the point of

0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.520
<v Speaker 1>the matter is that mercenaries were good at capturing minds

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.199
<v Speaker 1>um and fighting rebels. They were not good at actually

0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>developing a stable society in any of the countries in

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.719
<v Speaker 1>which they were active UM and Yeah. In spite of

0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.680
<v Speaker 1>their protestations that they to bring peace to Africa, Executive

0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Outcomes made the bulk of its money by getting poor

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:08.720
<v Speaker 1>countries to sign over mining rights to branch energy UM. Yeah.

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.359
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety eight, Sandline International breached a u N

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.439
<v Speaker 1>embargo on weapons sales to see ear leone. The company

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 1>also got in trouble in Papua New Guinea UM and

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 1>Man was flown out of the country under shady circumstances

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.240
<v Speaker 1>for trying to help them put down a rebellion. It's

0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:27.199
<v Speaker 1>just a whole fucking complicated, messy story. Now. The end

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:30.080
<v Speaker 1>of it is that by nineteen ninety eight, Africa was

0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.919
<v Speaker 1>filled with countless competing mercenary firms and nearly all of

0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:37.160
<v Speaker 1>them were either based in South Africa or mainly employed

0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>South African soldiers UM. And the Mandela administration got really

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 1>fucking angry at this and was like, all you guys

0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>are doing is perpetuating violence and all these countries and

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.920
<v Speaker 1>like adding fuel to the fire and making a shipload

0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 1>of money for yourselves. Fuck this. So in nineteen South

0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Africa passes the Foreign Military Assistance Act, which makes it

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.439
<v Speaker 1>illegal for South Africa is to offer military aid to

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 1>foreign country companies. And this means that in nine executive

0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>outcomes goes out of business um because they can't really

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.159
<v Speaker 1>operate anymore. So South Africa shuts a lot of this

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:17.600
<v Speaker 1>stuff down very effectively. So that's good, Yeah, it is good.

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 1>One thing I want to say is can we just

0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I know this sounds kind of silly. Can we talk

0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:25.880
<v Speaker 1>about the name executive outcomes? There are more? Is there

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.920
<v Speaker 1>a more? Sort of like it's not clear what we do,

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.560
<v Speaker 1>but you like, no one involves somebody getting rich and

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:38.240
<v Speaker 1>fucking shady business dealings name than executives outcomes. Yeah, executive outcomes. Yeah.

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.439
<v Speaker 1>It it is like the name you would give a

0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.240
<v Speaker 1>mercenary company in like a Paul Verhoeven movie. Like that's

0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 1>what it's like, a RoboCop sounding fucking name. Yeah, it is.

0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 1>It totally is yeah, yeah, yeah, and they are out

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.679
<v Speaker 1>of business by and again this is heralded as a

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 1>tragic thing by a lot of folks. Um. I have

0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:01.879
<v Speaker 1>somewhat different opinions. Um, but yeah, it is a complicated

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>as hell story. And the fact that like there's all

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:08.000
<v Speaker 1>these companies that are on paper even sometimes like competing

0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:09.719
<v Speaker 1>with each other, but also a lot of them are

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 1>owned by the same people. It's a big fucking mess.

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:14.919
<v Speaker 1>But you know what's not a mess, Bridget tell me

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.600
<v Speaker 1>what's not a mess? The products and services that support

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.520
<v Speaker 1>this podcast. Oh, I want to hear all about them.

0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Is there some avenue where I can do that? No,

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 1>just just kidding that Avenue is now all right, we're

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:39.880
<v Speaker 1>back bridget So, yeah, that's executive outcomes. They're they're they're

0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.600
<v Speaker 1>gone in Man in Buckingham sell off their interests in

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:46.359
<v Speaker 1>most of their subsidiary companies and they get they're both

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:48.679
<v Speaker 1>super fucking rich. We don't know how rich Man gets.

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>He claims Buckingham made a lot more money. Buckingham went

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:53.399
<v Speaker 1>up with something like a hundred and fifty millions. Simon

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Mann did very well for himself though. They're both millionaires,

0:26:56.440 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>and he was already rich. So yeah, good ship um. Now.

0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.479
<v Speaker 1>Interestingly enough, the men who actually did the fighting for

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:09.560
<v Speaker 1>his companies did not get rich. Most of executive outcome

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.399
<v Speaker 1>soldiers were black men, veterans of thirty two Battalion or

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Nigerian Special Forces. Many of them were left destitute when

0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:18.199
<v Speaker 1>the company folded, forced to take on menial work as

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.560
<v Speaker 1>security guards and live in Squalor in northwest South Africa.

0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>They had not benefited from the network of mining companies

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and airlines that filled Man's pockets for the better part

0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 1>of a decade. Simon, though got to retire, he competed

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 1>in car races, married a much younger woman, and had

0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>several kids. He should have been happy, but retirement didn't

0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:40.560
<v Speaker 1>suit Simon Mann, one of his friends, later recalled, I've

0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>never seen anyone looks so bored. Man's fiftieth birthday came

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and went. He tried to make peace with the fact

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 1>that his exciting youth as a war profiteer was behind him,

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:54.080
<v Speaker 1>but he just couldn't do it. It's a sad story.

0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:59.120
<v Speaker 1>It is sad. You know, lots of money, younger wife,

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 1>how sad? I mean, you know, I feel bad for

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the guy. Yeah, I mean he has a lot of

0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:07.760
<v Speaker 1>things that you might consider hallmarks of success, but he

0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:11.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't get to profit off of a war. He doesn't

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:14.000
<v Speaker 1>get to order men into battle anymore. Well, this is

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:16.679
<v Speaker 1>like what you were saying, is like how much of

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the bad ship that men do is out of kind

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:23.199
<v Speaker 1>of boredom or just like wanting to like mix it

0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 1>up and have a little fun. And like, you know,

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I do think that that, like evil is definitely part

0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 1>of it, But I do think another part of it

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>is like just like wanting to do something that is

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.840
<v Speaker 1>exciting and kind of fun, even if it kills people

0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>and like fox up their lives kind of especially if

0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 1>it kills people and their lives, because then there's stick bonus.

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah again, this is why turning Florida into just a

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:50.720
<v Speaker 1>walled off, open air war zone is such a good

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:54.160
<v Speaker 1>business idea. I think, and look, nobody has to wear

0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>masks there. It's it's what's fine. That's COVID nineteen is

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:01.560
<v Speaker 1>gonna be at least your problem in war Uh yeah, Warida.

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>You've already got a name, You've got a Brandon. I

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>think I think we gotta do this. I thinks it's

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the fast track. We gotta get this. I bet Governor

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 1>de Santis could get on board with this, you know

0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>so um. In two thousand three, this aging former mercenary

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 1>board and in need of a challenge, had a fateful

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 1>meeting with a fellow named Eli Khalil, a Lebanese businessman

0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 1>and financier with strong ties to the oil and gas industry.

0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Now Khalil's eyes had recently turned towards Equatorial Guinea. He

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:36.560
<v Speaker 1>couldn't help but notice that Exon was paying the nation's dictator,

0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh Bong just three dollars a barrel, while nearby Nigeria

0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 1>got eight dollars a barrel for their field. A savvier

0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.560
<v Speaker 1>head of state could negotiate much better terms, opening up

0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>huge amounts of money to flow into the coffers of

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.959
<v Speaker 1>a guy like Eli Khalil. He started talking to folks

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 1>members of Parliament in the House of Lords who might

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:58.160
<v Speaker 1>be interested in funding such a venture. In January two

0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>thousand three, he talked to sign and Man for the

0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>first time. The two met in London and their talk

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:06.840
<v Speaker 1>quickly turned to Equatorial Guinea. Now Man knew nothing about

0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 1>the country, but Khalil told him he was friends with

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:13.840
<v Speaker 1>an exiled Guinea and politician, Severo Moto Nasa. Now Moto

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 1>had been a mid level politician and Equatorial Guinea and

0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 1>had fled for his life to avoid being murdered by

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 1>the dictator oh Biong. He'd wound up in Madrid, where

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.240
<v Speaker 1>he'd charmed the Spanish Prime Minister and collected a small

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>circle of exiled fellow Guineas to him. Moto had become

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 1>the most vocal opponent of Obiang's regime, and Eli Khalil

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 1>later admitted to providing him with modest financial support to

0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 1>make his exile comfortable. Now we are talking about very

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 1>powerful men and very serious crimes here, and I cannot

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.959
<v Speaker 1>tell you precisely what happened next. A lot of this

0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:46.640
<v Speaker 1>is just like, this is the likeliest way things happened,

0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 1>because nobody who actually knows is talking, or if they're talking,

0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:53.760
<v Speaker 1>they're lying, because again they're talking about overthrowing a government

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and violating international arms embargoes. So again, all of this

0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:00.960
<v Speaker 1>is kind of me putting together from research I've done.

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 1>In the research, primarily Adam Roberts did like what seems

0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 1>like the likeliest chain of events that actually occurred, And

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 1>from what I've read, it seems like Eli Halil, basically

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.560
<v Speaker 1>on behalf of himself and other rich guys, found this

0:31:15.680 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 1>mercenary who was bored and started just talking to him

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 1>about all the terrible things this dictator Obian was doing

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 1>to his people, and also how weak the military there was,

0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 1>and how they had this wonderful exiled opposition leader would

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:29.440
<v Speaker 1>be a great leader in Obion in stead and kind

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 1>of let man put two and two together in his

0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 1>own head, like, yeah, you just sort of like lay

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.960
<v Speaker 1>out the bones of the crime, but don't suggest the crime.

0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And then this guy Simon Man is like, what if

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 1>we overthrew him? And Eli Halila is like, that's a

0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:48.240
<v Speaker 1>great idea, Simon, that is like how rich guy cry.

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:52.200
<v Speaker 1>How it happens like where it's like you suggest it

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 1>to someone who like you suggest it and then they

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.000
<v Speaker 1>think it's their idea. That is like t's oldest time

0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to like rich guy crime. If you've

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.200
<v Speaker 1>seen Tiger King, you know what the I'm talking about.

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 1>That is how it goes down. Yeah, that this is

0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:11.600
<v Speaker 1>this is like not like a rare story in history.

0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:15.480
<v Speaker 1>So um yeah. Uh. In his career as a mercenary,

0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Man had always worked before for nations. He'd never gotten

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>involved in the kind of skullduggery that men like Mad

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Mike Corey got famous for doing. But he'd grown up

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.320
<v Speaker 1>reading the same kind of books as Mad Mike. I'm

0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure he read King Solomon's mind, being a British

0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>child of that era. Uh, And he'd come into adulthood

0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:35.239
<v Speaker 1>hearing the stories of mercenaries like Cory and Denard. The

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>idea of sailing into some horribly oppressed little African country,

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>installing his own chosen king and making a big pile

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 1>of lute was deeply appealing to Man, so he started

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>to do his own research, and of course he came

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>across horror stories of Obiang's cannibalism and all the terrible

0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 1>things that he'd done, and he also learned that the

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:55.160
<v Speaker 1>leader was sick with cancer. This all convinced him that

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to fly to Spain and meet with Moto, just to

0:32:57.480 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 1>see what he thought of the man. The two had

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:02.760
<v Speaker 1>a couple of conversations and eventually Motto asked Simon, straight up,

0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:06.320
<v Speaker 1>will you help me take power in Equatorial Guinea. Man

0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 1>later recalled that this was the moment he realized he

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:13.040
<v Speaker 1>was getting involved with a serious game. So Man began

0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.600
<v Speaker 1>reaching out to his old friends, including Greg Wales, who

0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:20.360
<v Speaker 1>had worked as a an accountant for executive outcomes, and

0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 1>they did enough research to learn that Obiang's army was small,

0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:26.000
<v Speaker 1>usually drunk, and easy pickings for an elite team of

0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:29.920
<v Speaker 1>veteran fighters. In recent interviews, Wales too refers to the

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 1>attempted coup as a game and starts states his belief

0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:35.560
<v Speaker 1>that the government of Spain supported from the beginning. And again,

0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 1>all of like the white guys behind this, It's very

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 1>common for them to talk about like this is a game, um,

0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 1>because I think that's really how a lot of them

0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.240
<v Speaker 1>see it, Like they want to get rich off of this.

0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>But they also it just it's it's a game. Um. Yeah.

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 1>And you know it's not a game though for the

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Spanish government. They want Equatorial guineas oil um. And you

0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:56.000
<v Speaker 1>get the feeling that you just kind of pissed that

0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:58.840
<v Speaker 1>they decolonized the country before they knew it had incredibly

0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>rich oil fields. Um. So there's a lot of talk

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>about the fact that a Spanish oil and gas company

0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.200
<v Speaker 1>would have been given access to Equatorial guineas rich fields.

0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.440
<v Speaker 1>And if this is true, it means that the Spanish

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:12.799
<v Speaker 1>government got involved as a way to stealthily recolonized part

0:34:12.840 --> 0:34:17.320
<v Speaker 1>of Equatorial Guinea. So Simon Mann began collecting soldiers, starting

0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 1>with a handful of trustworthy white veterans. They tended to

0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:23.520
<v Speaker 1>be executive outcomes men. One of them, Style had flown

0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:26.239
<v Speaker 1>from man in Angola. He transitioned to a peaceful and

0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>lucrative career as the private pilot for a billionaire. So

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:31.759
<v Speaker 1>Style is and again he's a white guy. He's doing

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 1>incredibly well. He's making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:37.160
<v Speaker 1>He's like getting to live in luxury hotels and party

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 1>with a billionaire all the time. He doesn't need the money.

0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 1>But his old friend comes out to him and says, hey,

0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:44.880
<v Speaker 1>do you want to fly a bunch of men into

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:48.759
<v Speaker 1>battle to help overthrow this dictator? And style is like

0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:52.600
<v Speaker 1>fuck yeah, and he's like fun, yeah, because it sounds fun.

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Like that's the reason he gives is that it sounds

0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:57.840
<v Speaker 1>like it'll be a neat time. Um. Yeah, this is

0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:01.040
<v Speaker 1>my favorite thing about like like people who do shitty

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 1>things when they don't need the money, they just like

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.640
<v Speaker 1>are kind of reckless and like are up for up

0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:08.719
<v Speaker 1>for like a good time. Do you know. It's like

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:11.640
<v Speaker 1>it's like you didn't need to do this, but you're

0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:15.760
<v Speaker 1>just like kind of a reckless person and you were bored. Yeah, yeah,

0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 1>and that's why you did it. As another mercenary who

0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 1>was approached to the job told the author of the

0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:23.400
<v Speaker 1>book the Wonga Cou quote, you can see why this

0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.440
<v Speaker 1>is tempting. It's fun, it could work. You trust the leaders.

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Some of the guys did it for the kicks because

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:32.719
<v Speaker 1>life is boring. Wow, exactly. At least they're at least

0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:35.240
<v Speaker 1>they're open about it. Where it's like like this boring,

0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:41.440
<v Speaker 1>they're very open about it. Yeah, it's it's awesome. Actually,

0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:46.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean no, it's not it's horrible but interesting. Yeah.

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:48.000
<v Speaker 1>So the bulk of the men who were recruited by

0:35:48.080 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 1>man Um, the guys who were like the cannon fodder

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:54.680
<v Speaker 1>for this operation, were of course Black soldiers. Buffalo soldiers

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:56.440
<v Speaker 1>is the term you'll hear for these guys, the veterans

0:35:56.440 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 1>of the thirty two Battalion in South Africa. And these

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:01.919
<v Speaker 1>men's stories were saturday. They were not doing it for fun.

0:36:02.320 --> 0:36:04.839
<v Speaker 1>Most of them lived in a place called Pomfrey, which

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 1>had been the military base they'd been bunked in when

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.520
<v Speaker 1>they'd been in the South African military and was now

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:12.520
<v Speaker 1>when old asbestos filled slum that they lived in with

0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 1>their families in horrific squalor Adam Roberts rights quote. Families

0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:19.560
<v Speaker 1>told of husbands and fathers who scrabbled at the chance

0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.319
<v Speaker 1>of well paid work, no questions asked. At one house,

0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 1>a wooden carving on the wall shows a lion eating

0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:28.280
<v Speaker 1>a man with a gun. Cecilia Chimoisha says that her father, Edwardo,

0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 1>fought as a buffalo soldier for the South Africans for

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.360
<v Speaker 1>nearly two decades. He received a small army pension and

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:36.200
<v Speaker 1>took a job as a security garden Pretoria, leaving his

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.640
<v Speaker 1>family behind because there's no jobs in Pomfrey. Pomfrey is

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 1>only full of humans, there's no jobs. He was working

0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:44.640
<v Speaker 1>in Pretoria, his contract had finished, and he came home

0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:46.920
<v Speaker 1>for Christmas and New Year. When he returned to Practoria,

0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 1>he met a guy at an association for people who

0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.800
<v Speaker 1>were in Battalion thirty two, a hostel. Then he phoned

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 1>us and said that he was going to Congo, And

0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:57.480
<v Speaker 1>most of the accounts of the black men, who again

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.040
<v Speaker 1>are the majority of the fighting for it here, are

0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 1>the same. There offered jobs that paid more than their

0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 1>current work and offer maybe the possibility of an escape

0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:09.160
<v Speaker 1>from poverty while still being a pittance of what Eli

0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Khalil and Simon Mann planned to make in the operation quote.

0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:16.959
<v Speaker 1>Friends recruited each other, cousins urged relatives to join, hoping

0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:19.120
<v Speaker 1>to bring more wages into the family. The signs of

0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:21.960
<v Speaker 1>misery and palm frey, broken windows, sandy Street strewn with

0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:24.520
<v Speaker 1>litter all help explain the readiness of men to border

0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:27.360
<v Speaker 1>plane for an ill defined military job. Many of the

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:29.680
<v Speaker 1>foot soldiers and their families later claimed ignorance of the

0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>coup plot. Perhaps they were not told, at least not

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 1>early on. And there's a good chance that most of

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.720
<v Speaker 1>these men, up until like the day they were supposed

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:38.680
<v Speaker 1>to carry out this coup, didn't really know what they

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:44.080
<v Speaker 1>were being brought in for. Um. So recruiting these black soldiers,

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.279
<v Speaker 1>who were again expected to do almost all of the

0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:49.080
<v Speaker 1>fighting and killing, was basically an after thought thought for

0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann. He devoted most of his pre coup efforts

0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.319
<v Speaker 1>to recruiting rich white guys to provide funding for the

0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 1>whole escapade. He did this by throwing a series of

0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 1>fancy parties that is Johannesburg home. According to an attendee

0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:04.560
<v Speaker 1>at one of these parties, interviewed by The Sunday Telegraph, quote,

0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.479
<v Speaker 1>it was a casual conversation at a drinks party around

0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:11.640
<v Speaker 1>a swimming pool about a security project in an African mind. Yeah,

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:15.560
<v Speaker 1>First of all, I love this accent you're doing, and

0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 1>I say that. Um. Also, this sounds terrible and they

0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 1>did terrible things. This Johannesburg pool party sounds kind of lit.

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:28.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna yeah, I I have. I have gone

0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:31.719
<v Speaker 1>drinking at parties that are heavily mercenary, attended a couple

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:35.799
<v Speaker 1>of times, and you drink a lot. Yeah, yeah, you

0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 1>drink a lot with private military contractors. Although the drunkest

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:42.319
<v Speaker 1>people at the party were the U n UM. They

0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:45.680
<v Speaker 1>actually like fucking parked illegally and we were going to

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:47.640
<v Speaker 1>get the party busted and we had to like find

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the drunken U n guys and steal their keys to

0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:53.319
<v Speaker 1>move the land rover. It was fucking night. Wait, why

0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:58.120
<v Speaker 1>is this not a podcast episode? You're doing story? It's

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.279
<v Speaker 1>a fun tale. You are you got up? We got

0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:05.680
<v Speaker 1>you can get up to some ship in Iraq? Yeah

0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:09.160
<v Speaker 1>so um yeah. So he hosts these these pool parties

0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 1>where he talks to people. They're just having drinks and

0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 1>he's like, you know, we're having a project to mine.

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, it'll be a quick profit if you're willing

0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:20.200
<v Speaker 1>to invest some money. And then, you know, most people are,

0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, as soon as he mentions that the project

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 1>is an equatorial guinea, most reasonable people are like, oh fun, No,

0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I have no interest in getting involved in business in

0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that company, Like it's way in that country, it's way

0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:32.560
<v Speaker 1>too unstable. Um. But the people who are interested. Man

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>then has like private one on one conversations with Um

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:37.960
<v Speaker 1>and he asked him to put up a hundred thousand

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 1>dollars in seed money and promises them a million dollar

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:46.320
<v Speaker 1>return inside of ten weeks. Now, I'm not an investment guru,

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 1>but I know some people who are good at investments,

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and one thing they'll all say is that if anyone

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:55.120
<v Speaker 1>is offering you returns like that really returns an excess

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:59.800
<v Speaker 1>of like five, ten, maybe fifteen percent, um, Like, that's good.

0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:04.840
<v Speaker 1>If someone's offering you ten times return in ten weeks,

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.720
<v Speaker 1>that's a scam. They're either going to steal your money

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.040
<v Speaker 1>or they're committing some sort of horrible crime. And this

0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 1>is the horrible crime type thing, right Like, somebody either

0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:18.600
<v Speaker 1>either somebody is getting scammed or there's a terrible fucking

0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:21.719
<v Speaker 1>like a legal thing going on. For sure, it's either

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:25.040
<v Speaker 1>heroin or a coup, right Like, if they're not just

0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:27.600
<v Speaker 1>going to take your money and run, it's heroin or

0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:32.240
<v Speaker 1>a coup. Yeah. So, um, a number of people invested,

0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:34.920
<v Speaker 1>but a much larger number wound up spreading rumors around

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:37.840
<v Speaker 1>town about the coup that man was planning. Because again,

0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:40.520
<v Speaker 1>he tries to stay secret about this, but he's bad

0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 1>at it, and he just starts like telling anyone who says, yeah,

0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:45.560
<v Speaker 1>I might invest money, like yes, we're gonna overthrow this government.

0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 1>So like he's simultaneously these black soldiers that they're expecting

0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:51.520
<v Speaker 1>to do the fighting don't know what they're getting involved in.

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:54.480
<v Speaker 1>And like every random white dude that Simon man gets

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.000
<v Speaker 1>drunk at here's about his plan to overthrow the government

0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:03.360
<v Speaker 1>of Equatorial Guinea. Like it so funny, Like this actually

0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:05.960
<v Speaker 1>reminds me of when we were at that when we

0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:08.640
<v Speaker 1>were talking about like Nazis, how I was so surprised

0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.479
<v Speaker 1>by how many of them had. Like we're taken down

0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:16.600
<v Speaker 1>by personal messiness that you think you would be some

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:19.520
<v Speaker 1>like a dictator or like someone who is committed to

0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 1>threading awfulness and like shittiness in the world, and then

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 1>you get taken down by your own messiness. It's like again,

0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:30.480
<v Speaker 1>like you got drunk and told everybody like that that

0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:32.360
<v Speaker 1>really tells you all you need to know. Don't you

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:36.279
<v Speaker 1>think that that is what separates the bad people who

0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 1>are terrible but ultimately just foot soldiers, to the really

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 1>danger The really dangerous people are people like Eli Khalil,

0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:44.480
<v Speaker 1>like the guy at the top of all this who

0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:47.640
<v Speaker 1>was smart enough to be like this Simon guy is

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>going to try to do this, and he's going to

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:52.560
<v Speaker 1>be incompetent and messy. But as long as I like

0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:56.160
<v Speaker 1>steer clear just enough that I can't be legally tied

0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:58.080
<v Speaker 1>to him, this might work out. If it does, I

0:41:58.160 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 1>make a bunch of money. If it doesn't, I'm out,

0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:01.480
<v Speaker 1>what you know, a hundred grand or two. He's the

0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 1>one gathering most of the funds anyway, Like, those are

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:06.759
<v Speaker 1>the people you have to fucking watch out for. Is

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:10.279
<v Speaker 1>that you like Halil's like the Simon Man's funk up

0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of ship, but they're usually too dumb to

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.040
<v Speaker 1>get most of what they want because they're just they're

0:42:16.040 --> 0:42:20.319
<v Speaker 1>they're messy. Yeah, Samon Man is messy. Listen, if you're

0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:22.640
<v Speaker 1>gonna be if you're gonna be involved in like like

0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:26.000
<v Speaker 1>dirty ship, don't get drunk and tell everybody that's Like

0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:28.879
<v Speaker 1>that's like a number one rule. Yeah, Like, if you're

0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna be a dealer, don't smoke your own stash. And

0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.440
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to plot coup's stay sober until the

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 1>coup's done. That's what fucking Bob Denard did, right, They

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 1>brought the champagne. They didn't drink the champagne before the coup.

0:42:40.400 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Mike Corean is men did and they got into an

0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:47.319
<v Speaker 1>airport gunfight. Drinking getting wasted before the coup means an

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:51.000
<v Speaker 1>airport gunfight. Getting wasted after the coup means a fun evening.

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Like it's not hard. I almost I almost feel like

0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:59.919
<v Speaker 1>you're like giving people the recipe, like launch a successful coup,

0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:04.120
<v Speaker 1>get drunk after those Venezuelan guys who got busted, they

0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 1>were on a boat, you know, they were getting drunk

0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:11.160
<v Speaker 1>on that boat, like, yeah, fucking idiots. And of course

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.439
<v Speaker 1>it was like most of the actual dying was done

0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:15.560
<v Speaker 1>by like these local Venezuelans who just wanted to be

0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:18.320
<v Speaker 1>freed by a shitty dictator. These white guys wanted to

0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:23.160
<v Speaker 1>be heroes. It's fucking bullshit. It's so frustrating. I don't know,

0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.080
<v Speaker 1>maybe they'll suffer real penalties for what they did, because

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:30.000
<v Speaker 1>funk those guys, Uh, Like, it's so such bullshit. It's

0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:33.880
<v Speaker 1>always such bullshit. So man was not secretive about what

0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:36.520
<v Speaker 1>he was proposing to do. Obviously, he slipped up constantly

0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 1>in the drinking parties. Um. And you know, while a

0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>small number of people invested, a much larger number of

0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the people that he talked to wound up just spreading

0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:46.760
<v Speaker 1>rumors around town that Simon Mann was planning a coup.

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.319
<v Speaker 1>South African intelligence found out about it almost instantly and

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.840
<v Speaker 1>wrote out multiple different reports about the Button coup in

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the months before it was attempted. So like South African

0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 1>authorities like right away know what's going on. Um Now,

0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:02.240
<v Speaker 1>it's like really that Simon Mann himself was well aware

0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:05.000
<v Speaker 1>that the gist of his plan was known to local authorities,

0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:07.520
<v Speaker 1>and he doesn't seem to have cared much. There's debate

0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:09.759
<v Speaker 1>as to why, but the likeliest explanation is that he

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:12.279
<v Speaker 1>just didn't think anyone would bother to stop him. He

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:15.279
<v Speaker 1>thought that Obiang was such a bad dictator and international

0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:19.239
<v Speaker 1>law was so lax that nothing would happen um. And

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:22.080
<v Speaker 1>he had good reason to think this. Um. His partner Wales,

0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:25.319
<v Speaker 1>had reached out to an American lobbyist, Joe Sala, who

0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 1>advised them that a four day program of introductions to

0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:30.480
<v Speaker 1>US officials could be arranged for Motto, the guy they

0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:32.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted to put in place as the new dictator, for

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:35.399
<v Speaker 1>just forty grand And we don't know exactly what kind

0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.719
<v Speaker 1>of deal Whales worked out with Sala for Motto, but

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.840
<v Speaker 1>the two talked regularly for months and when man purchased

0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:45.400
<v Speaker 1>a former Coastguard Boeing seven for the United States to

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:47.840
<v Speaker 1>use in his coup. The whole process of buying this

0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:51.520
<v Speaker 1>former military aircraft and shipping it to South Africa went

0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:55.799
<v Speaker 1>really smoothly, like weirdly smoothly, and there are there's no

0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:58.080
<v Speaker 1>hard evidence, but there's a lot of people who think

0:44:58.080 --> 0:45:01.439
<v Speaker 1>that someone, if not a US government at the top level,

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:04.680
<v Speaker 1>people in the US government knew about this button coup

0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:06.919
<v Speaker 1>and wanted to kind of help it along a little

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:10.600
<v Speaker 1>bit by letting them get access to this plane more easily. Again,

0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:13.319
<v Speaker 1>there's a good chance that people at the top did

0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:15.040
<v Speaker 1>know that. George Bush was like, yeah, funk it, let's

0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:19.080
<v Speaker 1>see what happens. Who knows. Yeah, I honestly wouldn't put

0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:20.960
<v Speaker 1>it past him, like that does sound like something he

0:45:21.000 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 1>would do and what it also might have been due

0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:26.120
<v Speaker 1>to the Spanish government asking the US government to help

0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:30.080
<v Speaker 1>things out here because Spain again had a massive financial

0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 1>interest in this. The Spanish government did because they wanted

0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to get access to Equatorial Guineas oil, and Spain had

0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:38.160
<v Speaker 1>backed the U S and the invasion of Iraq, which

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 1>was like the Spanish leadership had backed the U S

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and the invasion of Iraq, which is a very politically

0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:45.960
<v Speaker 1>dicey decision, to say the least, and there's suspicions that

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.600
<v Speaker 1>basically the Prime Minister of Spain was like, look, George

0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:50.839
<v Speaker 1>w Bush, like, when you wanted to go to war,

0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:53.160
<v Speaker 1>we helped you out. Now I want to overthrow a

0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:56.359
<v Speaker 1>dictator and take some oil, Like let's get some quid

0:45:56.360 --> 0:46:00.360
<v Speaker 1>pro quo going up in this bitch. Um. So you

0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:02.960
<v Speaker 1>know you can't I can't say enough. This is two

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:10.320
<v Speaker 1>thousand three and two thousand four, like yeah, so um.

0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Wales was responsible for also putting together most of the

0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 1>non military aspects of the scheme. He set the day

0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:19.560
<v Speaker 1>of the actual event for a Thursday or a Friday,

0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:21.640
<v Speaker 1>because those were the days that most ministers would be

0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:24.920
<v Speaker 1>in the capital in Malabo and Equatorial Guinea. The coup

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.719
<v Speaker 1>plotters would then have the weekend to consolidate their power

0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and reopen the country on Monday. So that's kind of

0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:32.120
<v Speaker 1>the was the goal is, like we overthrow the government

0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:34.640
<v Speaker 1>on Friday, we like work through the weekend, and then

0:46:34.680 --> 0:46:36.839
<v Speaker 1>by Monday we got the whole new country set up.

0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:41.479
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I like the way they think it seems

0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:44.239
<v Speaker 1>it sounds very efficient and that within the way the plan.

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah sure, yeah, that makes sense. That scans um. So

0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:50.640
<v Speaker 1>he had plans to get the National press such as

0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:53.280
<v Speaker 1>it was in line and put together and quote impressive

0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:56.440
<v Speaker 1>plans for social, political, medical, and economic improvements for the

0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:59.320
<v Speaker 1>general populace um that he was going to have motto

0:46:59.400 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 1>announced on the monday he took power. Now, none of

0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:05.239
<v Speaker 1>these plans would actually be implemented, but that would get

0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:07.279
<v Speaker 1>like just talking about it would get the world off

0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:10.480
<v Speaker 1>of their backs long enough to suck Equatorial Guinea dry.

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:14.040
<v Speaker 1>And I'm gonna quote now from the book the Wonga Coup. Quote.

0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:16.360
<v Speaker 1>By the turn of the year Wales, his ideas and

0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:19.880
<v Speaker 1>presumably Man's, had expanded to something grander and Equatorial Guinea.

0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:22.440
<v Speaker 1>He proposed forming a company controlled by Man and his

0:47:22.480 --> 0:47:25.279
<v Speaker 1>closest plotters to run Equatorial Guinea, with Moto as a

0:47:25.320 --> 0:47:28.040
<v Speaker 1>puppet leader. The English accountant had long liked to dream

0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:30.760
<v Speaker 1>up plans and models for how to run failing countries.

0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:33.280
<v Speaker 1>He says he has written other proposals for other companies

0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:36.480
<v Speaker 1>modeled on the old buccaneering firms that underwrote British imperial

0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:40.080
<v Speaker 1>expansion in India and Africa. He thinks Somalia and Gabon

0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:42.880
<v Speaker 1>should be run by boards of directors, not by governments

0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:45.760
<v Speaker 1>or warlords. So he wrote a lengthy document, the Bite

0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:49.759
<v Speaker 1>of Benin Company Document, describing how such men such a

0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 1>company could take power and run the oil rich West

0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:55.560
<v Speaker 1>African state. John Smith believed the document shows how the

0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:58.640
<v Speaker 1>coup plot was pure neo colonialism. To put Motto in

0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:00.880
<v Speaker 1>place so they can remove him in any time. Simon

0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 1>would have been the president's security advisor and his company,

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:07.919
<v Speaker 1>the Bite of Benin Company, would have controlled it all. So, yeah,

0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:13.600
<v Speaker 1>that's the plan. That's suck up. It's super fucked up. Yeah,

0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it's real bad. You shouldn't do that, shouldn't shouldn't do

0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:18.640
<v Speaker 1>that at all. By the way, the name the Wonga

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:20.799
<v Speaker 1>coup comes from a letter that I believe it was

0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Mark Thatcher. Margaret Thatcher's son um was one of the

0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:26.960
<v Speaker 1>backers of this plan, and he got He got in

0:48:27.040 --> 0:48:29.920
<v Speaker 1>legal trouble for it eventually, and again the exact dimensions

0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>to which he was involved aren't known. It kind of

0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:34.160
<v Speaker 1>looks like he just gave them some money, knowing vaguely

0:48:34.160 --> 0:48:35.520
<v Speaker 1>that they were going to funk up some ship in

0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Africa and maybe make a lot of money. Um, but yeah,

0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 1>so Margaret Thatcher's kid like h Simon Mann writes him

0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:44.440
<v Speaker 1>a letter when he needs more money and refers to

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:46.759
<v Speaker 1>the money that he needs as wonga, which is like

0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 1>upper classs rich British kids slang for cash. Um like

0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:55.560
<v Speaker 1>it's what Etonian boys called cat like some wonga? What

0:48:55.760 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 1>of the wonga? Whatever? Fucking bullshit, fancy rich British kid stupid.

0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:02.799
<v Speaker 1>I hope that you do. I hope that you do

0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:06.560
<v Speaker 1>your like rich British kid accent A hundred more times

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:10.480
<v Speaker 1>in this episode. Very happy. I'll do my best. Can

0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:12.520
<v Speaker 1>you do that voice to call to an ad Brick?

0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Just won? Oh? God? Alright, alright, speaking of colonialism and wonga,

0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:24.239
<v Speaker 1>speaking of wonga. He'll get this show somewhere. I went

0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Australian right away, like I immediately, like Beard in Australian territory.

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:30.799
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to say anything, but it's very Australian.

0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:34.439
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, I know, I know. I could

0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:37.360
<v Speaker 1>do a pretty good Irish accent. Yeah I do what Irish?

0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:41.640
<v Speaker 1>That's a Irish boy faith? And why don't you check

0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:47.640
<v Speaker 1>out these odds? Now? Give this man a raise? Good?

0:49:48.920 --> 0:50:00.279
<v Speaker 1>That was so good not even please HOI you toy

0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:03.480
<v Speaker 1>t tidy Tom. We're back from the odd brick. It's

0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 1>the Irish behind the Bostard's episode that really is, like,

0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:10.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess that's I don't know what kind of colonialism

0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:12.080
<v Speaker 1>it is when you try to make fun of rich

0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:14.120
<v Speaker 1>British people but you're bad at the accent, so you

0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:17.960
<v Speaker 1>just make fun of another colonialized oppressed people, the Irish. Instead.

0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:20.440
<v Speaker 1>You're like, I wanted to make fun of them, but

0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:22.560
<v Speaker 1>now the Irish are getting pulled into it somehow. I

0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:27.120
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I'm so sorry Ireland. Um, you didn't deserve that.

0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:32.280
<v Speaker 1>You're a wonderful country. So the Bite of Bening company

0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:35.440
<v Speaker 1>document shows the plotters fretting that oil firms may not

0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:38.960
<v Speaker 1>play ball after the coup. They were worried that, like, um,

0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:41.799
<v Speaker 1>basically that some of these international companies would be like,

0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:44.799
<v Speaker 1>you illegally overthrew a government and maybe we don't want

0:50:44.800 --> 0:50:47.319
<v Speaker 1>to do business with you, which is weird because it

0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:50.040
<v Speaker 1>means that these coup plotters had way more faith in

0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>the morality of oil company executives than anyone on earth

0:50:53.000 --> 0:50:58.520
<v Speaker 1>ever has. Um. Yeah, so, uh, they were worried about

0:50:58.520 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 1>this because if oil revenue stopped flowing. You know, there

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.440
<v Speaker 1>was no point in taking control of Equatorial Guinea, which

0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:06.040
<v Speaker 1>again shows that they did not care about overthrowing this dictator.

0:51:07.000 --> 0:51:09.600
<v Speaker 1>But they knew that there were regular direct flights between

0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Malabo and Houston, UM because you know, there was a

0:51:12.480 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of American interest in Equatorial Guinea. UM, and they

0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:19.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to like piss off the United States because

0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:21.239
<v Speaker 1>if they messed with the oil interests at all and

0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:23.800
<v Speaker 1>like damaged the business interests of any of these companies

0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:27.120
<v Speaker 1>actively mining Equatorial Guinea, that would get the Marines in.

0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Like that was like literally like the writing they wrote,

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:31.480
<v Speaker 1>like this is what gets the Marines in. UM. So

0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:34.279
<v Speaker 1>they had to assure the American government early on, and

0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:36.680
<v Speaker 1>that was something they like wrote into their plan. UM.

0:51:36.840 --> 0:51:38.440
<v Speaker 1>They figured that like the best way to do this

0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:42.759
<v Speaker 1>was to offer lucrative jobs to American private security firms UM.

0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 1>And they decided that like one way to do this

0:51:45.200 --> 0:51:49.040
<v Speaker 1>was to offer the Military Professional Resources Incorporated mpr I

0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:51.560
<v Speaker 1>company the job of guarding the new president once the

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:54.440
<v Speaker 1>government was overthrown. So they like are immediately thinking, how

0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:56.839
<v Speaker 1>do we bribe the US into not stopping us from

0:51:56.920 --> 0:52:00.360
<v Speaker 1>doing this? UM. Yeah, the bite have been in company.

0:52:00.440 --> 0:52:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Document is proof positive against any claims that humanitarian concerns

0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:06.160
<v Speaker 1>were a factor in the coup. Under its strictures, the

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.719
<v Speaker 1>coup plotters would have total control over the new president's

0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:11.480
<v Speaker 1>schedule and what contracts he was allowed to sign. The

0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:13.880
<v Speaker 1>plotters were well aware of the fact that Equatorial guineas

0:52:13.920 --> 0:52:16.799
<v Speaker 1>first dictator Macias had initially been a figurehead for the

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Spanish government. They would not allow this to happen again.

0:52:20.160 --> 0:52:24.000
<v Speaker 1>The document itself notes, quote, the two most potent general

0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.320
<v Speaker 1>threats are one. As it is potentially a very lucrative game,

0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 1>we should expect bad behavior, disloyalty, rampant individual greed, a

0:52:31.680 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 1>rational behavior, kids in toy shop style, backstabbing, bum fucking,

0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:39.319
<v Speaker 1>and similar ungentlemanly activities too. If the result is not

0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:41.480
<v Speaker 1>seen by the outside world is noticeably better than the

0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:44.560
<v Speaker 1>current situation, our position there and uh in anything other

0:52:44.600 --> 0:52:46.600
<v Speaker 1>than the very short term will be hard to sustain,

0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:48.680
<v Speaker 1>and our involvement will be more likely to be the

0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:54.759
<v Speaker 1>subject of unfavorable scrutinty. So that's really the wording on

0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:57.879
<v Speaker 1>this is fascinating to me, Like because there's so number

0:52:57.920 --> 0:52:59.479
<v Speaker 1>one they call it a game again, but also because

0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:01.160
<v Speaker 1>there's gonna be so much money at stake, we should

0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:03.960
<v Speaker 1>expect everyone to act badly, Like we have to assume

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:06.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone's going to be a piece of ship that's involved

0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:09.040
<v Speaker 1>in this plan that we're cooking up. Yeah, everyone's going

0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:11.000
<v Speaker 1>to act like a child at a toy store. And

0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:13.719
<v Speaker 1>then also for I do think referring to it as

0:53:13.719 --> 0:53:16.319
<v Speaker 1>a game, it really shows you, like what they were

0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:21.560
<v Speaker 1>thinking that they like don't understand this sort of steaks. Yeah,

0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:23.880
<v Speaker 1>they don't. And it's is like this is StarCraft for

0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:26.800
<v Speaker 1>rich people, Like that's what this is. Is like that, Yeah,

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:31.840
<v Speaker 1>it's it's fucking wild. So the biggest issue facing the

0:53:31.840 --> 0:53:35.040
<v Speaker 1>plotters was the problem of acquiring weaponry UM and a

0:53:35.040 --> 0:53:37.319
<v Speaker 1>lot is said stereotypically about how easy it is to

0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 1>acquire guns in Africa, but that's actually not as true

0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:43.320
<v Speaker 1>as people think. For one thing, there's fewer firearms and

0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the entire African continent than in the United States, probably

0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:49.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot fewer, because the US has roughly half of

0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:53.000
<v Speaker 1>all the world's guns. UM in South Africa, probably the

0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:56.120
<v Speaker 1>most heavily armed nation on the continent, roughly ten out

0:53:56.160 --> 0:53:59.040
<v Speaker 1>of one hundred people own a gun. In the United States,

0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:02.120
<v Speaker 1>there are one dred sixteen firearms for every human being.

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:05.720
<v Speaker 1>That's just private guns too. By the way, UM, Now,

0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:08.200
<v Speaker 1>there are places in Africa where you can buy an

0:54:08.200 --> 0:54:10.319
<v Speaker 1>a K forty seven for cheap, generally places that have

0:54:10.400 --> 0:54:12.960
<v Speaker 1>just finished having civil wars or coups or whatever. But

0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:15.440
<v Speaker 1>that's not the case everywhere, and just being able to

0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:17.120
<v Speaker 1>buy an a K forty seven doesn't mean you can

0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:20.440
<v Speaker 1>actually get access to high quality arms. Coup plotters needed

0:54:20.480 --> 0:54:24.000
<v Speaker 1>not just random street a ks. They needed good, reliable guns,

0:54:24.320 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 1>and they needed things other than a K forty sevens.

0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:29.920
<v Speaker 1>They needed hand grenades, heavy machine guns, mortars, mortar ammunition,

0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:32.160
<v Speaker 1>and rocket launchers. All of this ship is necessary if

0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:36.120
<v Speaker 1>you're going to overthrow even a small modern government. Um

0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:38.239
<v Speaker 1>and that stuff is hard to fucking get, especially in

0:54:38.280 --> 0:54:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the quantities that you need. Man eventually worked at a

0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:46.200
<v Speaker 1>deal with an arms manufacturer, Zimbabwe Defense Industries z d I. Now,

0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:48.480
<v Speaker 1>he had no end user certificate, which is what you

0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:50.640
<v Speaker 1>need to arm a large group of people without breaking

0:54:50.640 --> 0:54:54.120
<v Speaker 1>international law, but he did have bribe money. Z d

0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:56.160
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to just deliver weapons to Man in

0:54:56.200 --> 0:54:58.360
<v Speaker 1>his army in their own country though, because they legally

0:54:58.400 --> 0:55:00.759
<v Speaker 1>couldn't ship them to him going to handle all these

0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:03.520
<v Speaker 1>logistical hurdles. Man and the other plotters set up an

0:55:03.520 --> 0:55:07.200
<v Speaker 1>incredibly complex and stupid scheme. The short of it is

0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:09.440
<v Speaker 1>that they bought a bunch of extra guns from z

0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:11.640
<v Speaker 1>d I to have delivered for rebels that they knew

0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in the Congo, and they were going to have these

0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:16.960
<v Speaker 1>rebels attack and take an air strip from the government

0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:19.400
<v Speaker 1>of the Congo. The z d I plane would then

0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:22.239
<v Speaker 1>fly into the Congo, land at that air strip and

0:55:22.360 --> 0:55:24.920
<v Speaker 1>unload a bunch of guns to pay the rebels and

0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:27.439
<v Speaker 1>to give Man's army, which they would then fly into

0:55:27.560 --> 0:55:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Zambia to give to their fighters. So like, we're already

0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:34.680
<v Speaker 1>over complicating things, right, like every every other complication is

0:55:34.680 --> 0:55:38.239
<v Speaker 1>that is another way for things to fail. Like this

0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:41.040
<v Speaker 1>is like we haven't even like the steps before we

0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:44.680
<v Speaker 1>even land an army in fucking Eduatorial Guinea are such

0:55:44.680 --> 0:55:49.400
<v Speaker 1>a fucking mess. It's clearly a bad idea. So Man's

0:55:49.440 --> 0:55:51.919
<v Speaker 1>forward team would meet with these rebels and then fly

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:54.480
<v Speaker 1>to Zambia, where the bulk of the mercenaries would be waiting.

0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:56.719
<v Speaker 1>They'd load up their arms and then fly to Equatorial

0:55:56.719 --> 0:55:59.239
<v Speaker 1>Guinea to carry out their coup. A separate group of

0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:02.960
<v Speaker 1>mercenaries arding future present Moto would land by boats supported

0:56:02.960 --> 0:56:05.600
<v Speaker 1>by a small squadron of Spanish frigates, which would be

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:09.799
<v Speaker 1>there to secure naval supremacy. Now in war, as in life,

0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:13.000
<v Speaker 1>simple plans are always better than complicated ones, and Man's

0:56:13.040 --> 0:56:16.279
<v Speaker 1>convoluted coup scheme collapsed before it really got started. The

0:56:16.360 --> 0:56:19.759
<v Speaker 1>Congolese rebels failed to capture the airstrip and probably never

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:22.400
<v Speaker 1>even tried to assault it. The z d I plane

0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:24.640
<v Speaker 1>had no place to land, so it flew back to Harare.

0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:27.440
<v Speaker 1>The Spanish frigates sailed off when it became clear that

0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:29.680
<v Speaker 1>no coup was going to occur, and in general, the

0:56:29.719 --> 0:56:32.480
<v Speaker 1>whole scheme diet fizzled. And in fact, even the plane

0:56:32.520 --> 0:56:35.799
<v Speaker 1>that the Man's advanced team flew from the Congo to

0:56:35.880 --> 0:56:38.879
<v Speaker 1>Zambia like it hit a bird in midflight and had

0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:43.880
<v Speaker 1>to be emergency repaired. It just it falls apart fucking immediately,

0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:46.800
<v Speaker 1>and most of Man's army just spends the whek getting

0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:50.880
<v Speaker 1>drunk in fancy hotels. Um. So, not not a great

0:56:50.920 --> 0:56:55.200
<v Speaker 1>first try, not a great first try. But is it

0:56:55.440 --> 0:56:58.200
<v Speaker 1>fun to get drunk in fancy hotels? It is? It

0:56:58.360 --> 0:57:00.560
<v Speaker 1>is uh and a lot of of the guys who

0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:02.319
<v Speaker 1>were getting drunk in those hotels would go on too

0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:05.759
<v Speaker 1>wish that they just stayed in the hotels getting drunk. Um. Yeah,

0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:07.960
<v Speaker 1>imagine if that's all they did where they were just like, oh,

0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I just I just went to this hotel, got drunk,

0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and then I like stayed there. I'm at home. Cous

0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:19.640
<v Speaker 1>are awesome. So after this inauspicious cluster fox, several of

0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the coup's early backers backed out, wisely, deciding that Man

0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:25.640
<v Speaker 1>and his fellow mercenaries were a lot worse at overthrowing

0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:28.240
<v Speaker 1>corrupt regimes than they'd been at propping them up. But

0:57:28.320 --> 0:57:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Simon Mann had the coup plotting equivalent of blue balls,

0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and he was not the kind of man who was

0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:35.320
<v Speaker 1>gonna let a little thing like rank failures stop him.

0:57:35.560 --> 0:57:38.440
<v Speaker 1>He committed to trying again and started pounding the ground

0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 1>in search of yet more funding. This was not an

0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:44.000
<v Speaker 1>easy process, and in interviews Man's friends noted that he

0:57:44.080 --> 0:57:48.440
<v Speaker 1>was visibly uneasy by late February two thousand four. Quote

0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:52.120
<v Speaker 1>he looked under huge emotional pressure, recalls one who saw

0:57:52.200 --> 0:57:55.080
<v Speaker 1>him regularly. Matters were not helped by Amanda, his free

0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:57.880
<v Speaker 1>spending wife. On one occasion, he lost it. He threw

0:57:57.920 --> 0:57:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the phone ten ms at a wall and it smashed

0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:02.680
<v Speaker 1>to a thousand bits to somebody who worked in his office.

0:58:02.880 --> 0:58:05.320
<v Speaker 1>The reason, on top of the stress of finding cash

0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:07.320
<v Speaker 1>for his coup, he had to provide ever more dollars

0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:09.960
<v Speaker 1>to his wife. Man could afford it in the longer term,

0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:12.800
<v Speaker 1>but he lacked ready cash. His wife and children used

0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:15.320
<v Speaker 1>to luxury were running up bills just as he needed

0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:19.560
<v Speaker 1>every dollar. And it's it's a whole another level of

0:58:19.600 --> 0:58:22.160
<v Speaker 1>self absorbed when you're angry at your wife and kids

0:58:22.200 --> 0:58:24.920
<v Speaker 1>for spending money not because you don't have it, because

0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:27.560
<v Speaker 1>you need it to overthrow a sovereign nation to steal

0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:31.240
<v Speaker 1>it's oil. It's like, baby, don't you understand I need this.

0:58:31.400 --> 0:58:33.480
<v Speaker 1>I need this money for the coup. I need this

0:58:33.560 --> 0:58:37.400
<v Speaker 1>for the coup. That's my coup bucks. She's like you,

0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting a facial Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like

0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:45.240
<v Speaker 1>like normal like middle class guys who are the kind

0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:47.840
<v Speaker 1>of man Simon man is when they get old, like

0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:51.840
<v Speaker 1>spend too much money buying like a shitty convertible, Simon

0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:55.439
<v Speaker 1>launches a coup. That's really what is going on here. Yeah,

0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:58.400
<v Speaker 1>It's like, are you gonna buy a like midlife crisis

0:58:58.440 --> 0:59:01.880
<v Speaker 1>car or execute a Q whichever yeah one of the two.

0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:07.160
<v Speaker 1>So um yeah he uh. He starts to get desperate,

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:10.960
<v Speaker 1>right um, because he's having trouble raising enough money, and

0:59:12.280 --> 0:59:14.840
<v Speaker 1>like all desperate men, he cuts corners. And the fact

0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:17.120
<v Speaker 1>that he was cutting corners in his attempted a second

0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:20.120
<v Speaker 1>attempted a coup is embodied nowhere better than the story

0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:22.760
<v Speaker 1>of how Man planned to collect his zimbabwe and weapons

0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:25.560
<v Speaker 1>the second time around. Rather than set up a drop

0:59:25.600 --> 0:59:28.440
<v Speaker 1>in another country, he just decided to fly his seven

0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:31.840
<v Speaker 1>seven loaded with mercenaries into Zimbabwe and pick up the

0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:35.200
<v Speaker 1>guns there. Now, these guns were being bought illegally, and

0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:39.000
<v Speaker 1>the mercenaries were also illegal. Um so. This introduced a

0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:41.360
<v Speaker 1>number of wrinkles into the plan. Now Man and his

0:59:41.440 --> 0:59:44.720
<v Speaker 1>soldiers were going to be landing in another sovereign nation

0:59:45.400 --> 0:59:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and buying illegal weapons, which is a whole new list

0:59:48.200 --> 0:59:51.200
<v Speaker 1>of people you have to bribe. Like smuggling an army

0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:53.880
<v Speaker 1>all the way across Africa is not an easy thing

0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:58.400
<v Speaker 1>to do, um so, but Man decides, fuck it, we'll

0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:01.520
<v Speaker 1>figure it out. On Arch fourth, a small advanced team

1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:04.520
<v Speaker 1>flew into Equatorial guineas Capital. Their role would be to

1:00:04.520 --> 1:00:07.720
<v Speaker 1>set things up for when the full army arrived. Unfortunately

1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:09.960
<v Speaker 1>for them, Obiang and his government were well aware of

1:00:10.000 --> 1:00:12.400
<v Speaker 1>what was about to happen. For one thing, the South

1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:15.240
<v Speaker 1>African government had warned them in detail that Simon Mann

1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:18.280
<v Speaker 1>was planning a coup. For another thing, before the first

1:00:18.320 --> 1:00:21.720
<v Speaker 1>coup attempt, Man had sent an advanced team into Equatorial Guinea.

1:00:21.840 --> 1:00:24.480
<v Speaker 1>They've gotten drunk in one of the capital's few restaurants

1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:27.240
<v Speaker 1>and talked openly about their plans to overthrow the government.

1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:30.720
<v Speaker 1>So there's a number of reasons that Obiang knows what's

1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:35.960
<v Speaker 1>about to happen again, like getting drunk, and like getting

1:00:36.040 --> 1:00:39.680
<v Speaker 1>drunken talkie if you're if you're planning a coup, If

1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:42.240
<v Speaker 1>you're out there listening and you're planning a coup, don't

1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:45.920
<v Speaker 1>get drunken talkie. After Bridget and I will have a

1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:49.240
<v Speaker 1>lot more coup advice in our new podcast, How to Coup,

1:00:49.400 --> 1:00:52.439
<v Speaker 1>which launches on the I Heart network this August, so

1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:56.880
<v Speaker 1>you can wherever you get your podcast, how did you Yeah?

1:00:56.920 --> 1:00:59.280
<v Speaker 1>If you're stockpiling F A L S and three oh

1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:02.720
<v Speaker 1>eight mm o in hopes of overthrowing I don't know Uruguay,

1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:06.320
<v Speaker 1>don't do it. Until you listen to our podcast, because

1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:11.200
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna have a lot of advice for you. We

1:01:11.240 --> 1:01:16.360
<v Speaker 1>should call it the A b C's for always be couping.

1:01:16.760 --> 1:01:18.400
<v Speaker 1>You gotta be learning your A b c s. You know,

1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to carry out a coup, the including

1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:26.640
<v Speaker 1>d don't drink um. That really is the number one

1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:29.960
<v Speaker 1>lesson I've gotten. Like that is like the undoing of

1:01:30.240 --> 1:01:34.280
<v Speaker 1>so many people in this story. It's like getting and honestly,

1:01:34.360 --> 1:01:37.040
<v Speaker 1>like these are horrible, horrible people. I want to make

1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:40.280
<v Speaker 1>it very clear, they're terrible. Fuck them all, But I

1:01:40.360 --> 1:01:42.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of I've been there where you like, have a plan,

1:01:43.160 --> 1:01:46.280
<v Speaker 1>you have a few drinks, you're feeling good. You start

1:01:46.360 --> 1:01:50.120
<v Speaker 1>talking like, I don't know how it happens. Oh, we

1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>could call our podcast get a Coup. Oh that's good, dude,

1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:55.840
<v Speaker 1>that's a good one. That's a good one. It's gonna

1:01:55.880 --> 1:01:57.919
<v Speaker 1>be a great show. Gonna be a great show. We'll

1:01:57.920 --> 1:02:05.080
<v Speaker 1>have to have Simon man on. Thank you so uh.

1:02:05.160 --> 1:02:08.560
<v Speaker 1>When the point team flew in on March fourth, Obiang

1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:11.560
<v Speaker 1>was ready um and still the coup plotters and the

1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:15.360
<v Speaker 1>advanced team member Nicki took steps to try to conceal

1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:17.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that we're about to execute a coup. So

1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Nick Deta is like the head of the advanced team

1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:21.720
<v Speaker 1>that lands in Equatorial Guinea a head of the second attempt,

1:02:22.080 --> 1:02:24.600
<v Speaker 1>and as soon as he lands, he gets the impression

1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:26.560
<v Speaker 1>that the government might be aware that they're about to

1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.120
<v Speaker 1>carry out a coup. And his response to this is

1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to send out a bunch of text messages on his phone,

1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:34.720
<v Speaker 1>which he was sure was bugged, stating, hey, guys were

1:02:34.720 --> 1:02:37.600
<v Speaker 1>canceling the coup. Not because he was canceling the coupe

1:02:37.600 --> 1:02:39.080
<v Speaker 1>because he caught that. We thought that would throw the

1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:44.800
<v Speaker 1>government off of their trail. I kind of love that

1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:50.800
<v Speaker 1>smart people here. So just as the Spanish government hoped

1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:53.200
<v Speaker 1>a successful coup would allow them to profit from Equatorial

1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.120
<v Speaker 1>Guineas oil, South Africa felt that stopping the coup would

1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:59.320
<v Speaker 1>help them profit off Equatorial Guineas oil. So, in addition

1:02:59.360 --> 1:03:01.840
<v Speaker 1>to warning young South Africa put in a call to

1:03:01.920 --> 1:03:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Robert Mugabe, the dictator of Zimbabwe now and they were like, Hey,

1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:08.400
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of mercenaries led by a British guy are

1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:10.560
<v Speaker 1>going to be picking up a legal arms at your airport.

1:03:10.640 --> 1:03:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe do something about it. And Mugabe didn't really care

1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:17.200
<v Speaker 1>that much about Equatorial guineas sovereignty. But he was, above

1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:20.280
<v Speaker 1>all else terrified of Britain, which is the most reasonable

1:03:20.280 --> 1:03:23.320
<v Speaker 1>thing about Robert Mugabe. And he and many of them

1:03:23.320 --> 1:03:25.880
<v Speaker 1>in his government were worried that their old colonial oppressor

1:03:25.960 --> 1:03:28.600
<v Speaker 1>was plotting at coup against Zimbabwe. So when they hear

1:03:28.640 --> 1:03:30.560
<v Speaker 1>that a British mercenary is about to land in their

1:03:30.560 --> 1:03:32.600
<v Speaker 1>country and pick up a pile of guns, they're not

1:03:32.640 --> 1:03:35.160
<v Speaker 1>worried about Equatorial Guinea. They're worried that he's going to

1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:39.080
<v Speaker 1>try to overthrow his own country. So, to make a

1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>very long and dumb story short, man lands in Harare

1:03:42.320 --> 1:03:44.280
<v Speaker 1>with the bulk of his army and they all get

1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:46.400
<v Speaker 1>arrested before they can even so much as pick up

1:03:46.400 --> 1:03:50.000
<v Speaker 1>their guns. His advanced team is also arrested. In Equatorial Guinea,

1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:53.800
<v Speaker 1>both groups of mercenaries mercenaries are thrown into horrible prisons

1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 1>and tortured. One man dies under torture in each country. UM.

1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Now in Zimbabwe, man and his mercenaries are all tried,

1:04:01.960 --> 1:04:05.480
<v Speaker 1>convicted and sentenced to prison. Um Most of the grunts

1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:07.480
<v Speaker 1>got a year with no time served for the six

1:04:07.560 --> 1:04:09.880
<v Speaker 1>months had already been incarcerted pre trial. So all these

1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:12.600
<v Speaker 1>poor black eyes just get no money and are in

1:04:12.680 --> 1:04:16.960
<v Speaker 1>jail for eighteen months. Um. Yeah, most of the white

1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:20.120
<v Speaker 1>men got sixteen months sentences. They all get fined two

1:04:20.200 --> 1:04:23.560
<v Speaker 1>thousands Zimbabwe dollars each, which comes to about thirty cents,

1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:26.560
<v Speaker 1>so at least the fine isn't too much. But yeah,

1:04:26.640 --> 1:04:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Man himself was sentenced to seven years and forfeited both

1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the plane he bought in a hundred and eighty thousand

1:04:32.200 --> 1:04:34.680
<v Speaker 1>dollars in cash. He also missed the birth of his

1:04:34.760 --> 1:04:37.560
<v Speaker 1>seventh child, which happened the same month that he was sentenced.

1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:40.320
<v Speaker 1>H this was a mild penalty compared to the suffering

1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:42.720
<v Speaker 1>experience by the families of the black soldiers. Man had

1:04:42.800 --> 1:04:45.920
<v Speaker 1>led into this stupid disaster because Man's family at least

1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:50.840
<v Speaker 1>was still rich. According to Lawonga Coup quote, Viviana Chimuchi,

1:04:51.040 --> 1:04:53.440
<v Speaker 1>wife of Eduardo who's one of the men, was desperate.

1:04:53.520 --> 1:04:55.480
<v Speaker 1>We attended. We depend on people who have pity and

1:04:55.520 --> 1:04:58.080
<v Speaker 1>on the churches we get food parcels. She explains. Her

1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:00.919
<v Speaker 1>daughter Cecilia says, we heard the sentence of my father

1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:03.560
<v Speaker 1>on the radio that we were We were surprised. They

1:05:03.600 --> 1:05:05.880
<v Speaker 1>told us he would come out now tears appear in

1:05:05.920 --> 1:05:09.000
<v Speaker 1>her eyes. She blames man in the financiers. Those people

1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:11.320
<v Speaker 1>put us into trouble. We're suffering because they put our

1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:14.880
<v Speaker 1>father into problems. She once man punished. I'm happy not

1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:16.880
<v Speaker 1>to give him seven years, no to give him the

1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:23.720
<v Speaker 1>death penalty he deserves it. Wow powerful words. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:25.439
<v Speaker 1>And at the end of the day, like yeah, man

1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:27.720
<v Speaker 1>and his fellow white guys, they all do suffer. Like

1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:30.640
<v Speaker 1>they spend time in a really shitty prison and man,

1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:35.080
<v Speaker 1>a couple of them get tortured. Um, but the fucking

1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:37.960
<v Speaker 1>these these poor black dudes who probably didn't even really

1:05:38.000 --> 1:05:41.160
<v Speaker 1>know what they were being paid to do in detail, uh,

1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:43.680
<v Speaker 1>suffer the worst. And all of the white guys when

1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:46.080
<v Speaker 1>they do get out of prison, have our rich still,

1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:48.320
<v Speaker 1>and all of these black guys their families are poorer

1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:52.520
<v Speaker 1>than ever. It's it's some bullshit. It's so sad like that,

1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:55.800
<v Speaker 1>like what you've just described, I feel like is such

1:05:55.840 --> 1:05:59.440
<v Speaker 1>a blueprint for so many things, where white guys go

1:05:59.520 --> 1:06:01.520
<v Speaker 1>into this, they come out of it and they're fine,

1:06:01.600 --> 1:06:04.600
<v Speaker 1>and then the people that that kind of like go

1:06:04.720 --> 1:06:07.400
<v Speaker 1>along with it, who are more oft than than not

1:06:07.640 --> 1:06:10.720
<v Speaker 1>black just have nothing. And it's just it's it's it's

1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:13.640
<v Speaker 1>makes me, it's it's it's very upsetting, and I think

1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:17.520
<v Speaker 1>it's like a common thing when we talk about Yes,

1:06:17.640 --> 1:06:19.760
<v Speaker 1>it is by far the normal way for this ship

1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:24.520
<v Speaker 1>to go. So Man and his fellow whites had enough

1:06:24.520 --> 1:06:27.120
<v Speaker 1>money to pay bribes that made their lives behind bars easier.

1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Zimbabwe in prison is never comfortable, but they were able

1:06:29.560 --> 1:06:32.320
<v Speaker 1>to secure themselves enough food to stay relatively healthy, as

1:06:32.320 --> 1:06:34.680
<v Speaker 1>well as a few luxuries. The same was not true

1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.760
<v Speaker 1>for the black men that they'd planned to lead into battle.

1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Those men spent their year behind bars on the edge

1:06:39.200 --> 1:06:42.439
<v Speaker 1>of starvation. When they were freed, they found themselves in debt,

1:06:42.560 --> 1:06:45.720
<v Speaker 1>nursing criminal records, and tired by their toxic affiliations to

1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:49.800
<v Speaker 1>one of the most disastrous coups in history. Simon Mann, however,

1:06:49.920 --> 1:06:52.920
<v Speaker 1>was it extradited to Equatorial Guinea after four years in

1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:55.720
<v Speaker 1>the Zimbabwe in prison, and it is widely believed that

1:06:55.720 --> 1:06:58.720
<v Speaker 1>he was traded by Zimbabwe for oil. He went on

1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:01.880
<v Speaker 1>to spend another eighteen month the Equatorial guineas notorious Black

1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Beach Prison. Before his extradition, President Obiang had promised to

1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:11.080
<v Speaker 1>personally sodomize and skin alive the mercenary, but he didn't actually, yeah,

1:07:11.080 --> 1:07:13.240
<v Speaker 1>he didn't really do that. Um. It was bad though.

1:07:13.280 --> 1:07:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Man was tortured horribly and locked in solitary confinement. He

1:07:16.480 --> 1:07:19.120
<v Speaker 1>was beaten and starved. I'm not gonna say he suffered

1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:22.040
<v Speaker 1>a fair punishment, but he was. He was punished like

1:07:22.400 --> 1:07:26.600
<v Speaker 1>he has. He spends like years in unspeakable misery and torment.

1:07:26.760 --> 1:07:32.040
<v Speaker 1>So you know, at least there's that. Uh. Yeah. During

1:07:32.040 --> 1:07:34.520
<v Speaker 1>his time incarcerated, he was allowed to speak to journalists

1:07:34.520 --> 1:07:36.600
<v Speaker 1>provided he telled them that he was being treated very well.

1:07:36.640 --> 1:07:38.320
<v Speaker 1>And you can find interviews from him and like the

1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:41.120
<v Speaker 1>mid aughts where he's talking about like, no, I haven't

1:07:41.120 --> 1:07:43.200
<v Speaker 1>been tortured. Everything's good here. When he got out of

1:07:43.200 --> 1:07:45.360
<v Speaker 1>prison in two thousand ten, he started being like, yeah,

1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I was absolutely tortured and he's probably not lying like

1:07:49.200 --> 1:07:52.360
<v Speaker 1>he almost certainly was tortured. Um. But yeah. One of

1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:54.880
<v Speaker 1>these interviews I found from before he was released through

1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:57.479
<v Speaker 1>the Independent, has a very choice quote from Mr Mann

1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:01.720
<v Speaker 1>quote Hugo, tigers shoot, but you don't expect the tiger

1:08:01.800 --> 1:08:08.720
<v Speaker 1>to win. Yeah. He was pardoned by President obiong And

1:08:08.760 --> 1:08:10.600
<v Speaker 1>two thousand nine, and in two thousand tend he gave

1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:12.800
<v Speaker 1>an interview to the Guardian where he revealed the details

1:08:12.800 --> 1:08:15.520
<v Speaker 1>of his torture and provided this quote. I didn't go

1:08:15.560 --> 1:08:17.400
<v Speaker 1>there to make lots of money and sit on my

1:08:17.439 --> 1:08:19.559
<v Speaker 1>own and say hey, I'm a rich man. I did

1:08:19.600 --> 1:08:22.160
<v Speaker 1>it for my family, to improve their lives. I made

1:08:22.160 --> 1:08:24.760
<v Speaker 1>the wrong choices. I am very sorry about that, for

1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the pain and grief I brought my family, especially my

1:08:27.000 --> 1:08:30.000
<v Speaker 1>daughter who was ten when I was incarcerated. Which is

1:08:30.040 --> 1:08:33.080
<v Speaker 1>like Number one clearly doesn't give a shit about any

1:08:33.120 --> 1:08:35.439
<v Speaker 1>of the like the soldiers that he put in danger

1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:38.200
<v Speaker 1>through as a result of this. He doesn't even mention them.

1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:42.760
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't even mention them. Um. And also like you were

1:08:42.840 --> 1:08:46.360
<v Speaker 1>rich already, your family could have lived a comfortable life

1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and you never needed to work again. You wanted them

1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:51.439
<v Speaker 1>to be like own their own islands rich. That's why

1:08:51.479 --> 1:08:53.960
<v Speaker 1>you did this. Oh my gosh, this could be a

1:08:54.000 --> 1:08:58.080
<v Speaker 1>whole other behind the bastard's episode of like people who

1:08:58.320 --> 1:09:01.840
<v Speaker 1>have tons of money who just get this obsession with

1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:04.799
<v Speaker 1>the money. Where you could have done you could have whatever,

1:09:04.840 --> 1:09:07.720
<v Speaker 1>like shitty, illegal, horrible thing you did. You could have

1:09:07.760 --> 1:09:10.800
<v Speaker 1>not done that and lived a comfortable life, Like what

1:09:11.000 --> 1:09:14.919
<v Speaker 1>is this obsession with Yeah, we have to be private

1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:17.519
<v Speaker 1>island rich, and I don't. I don't even think it

1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:20.000
<v Speaker 1>was really that. I honestly don't think I think the

1:09:20.000 --> 1:09:22.639
<v Speaker 1>money was an incentive, but I think more than anything,

1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:26.040
<v Speaker 1>man wanted the excitement and he wanted this to be

1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:28.080
<v Speaker 1>able to brag about, like he wanted to be able

1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:29.800
<v Speaker 1>to think this would be the feather in his cap

1:09:29.840 --> 1:09:33.000
<v Speaker 1>as a mercenary. All these other mercenaries like Mike Cory

1:09:33.080 --> 1:09:36.400
<v Speaker 1>and Bob Denard, they had led coups, like they had

1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:39.559
<v Speaker 1>helped overthrow governments. He had never gotten to do that,

1:09:39.600 --> 1:09:44.559
<v Speaker 1>and he wanted to. You know, it goes back. Yeah,

1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.280
<v Speaker 1>if you had to say, how many people out there

1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:50.320
<v Speaker 1>to doing horrible things? Do you think you're doing it

1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:55.559
<v Speaker 1>for bragging rights? If you had to say one way

1:09:55.600 --> 1:10:00.320
<v Speaker 1>or the other, that's a very high percentage. Yeah, you know,

1:10:00.479 --> 1:10:03.280
<v Speaker 1>you don't. You know, speaking of Tiger King, that that

1:10:03.360 --> 1:10:06.640
<v Speaker 1>guy who was the inspiration for Scarface, that's clearly a

1:10:06.680 --> 1:10:09.360
<v Speaker 1>guy who was just in it for the money. Because

1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:11.599
<v Speaker 1>he he doesn't seem to have any desire to brag

1:10:11.640 --> 1:10:13.720
<v Speaker 1>about it, like he just wanted to fucking He got rich,

1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:15.880
<v Speaker 1>he did his time, he got out, and he bought

1:10:15.880 --> 1:10:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a fucking farm in the middle of nowhere. I can

1:10:18.000 --> 1:10:19.920
<v Speaker 1>respect that, even if you do awful things to get

1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:23.439
<v Speaker 1>the money. But most of them want everyone to know

1:10:23.479 --> 1:10:27.360
<v Speaker 1>how cool they are. So up. It's like worse to me.

1:10:27.400 --> 1:10:31.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I find it like yeah more yeah,

1:10:31.400 --> 1:10:38.439
<v Speaker 1>it's like it's like more like, um, I can't understand it. Yeah, yep, yep,

1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:43.479
<v Speaker 1>souh more. Recently, um, in like a couple of weeks ago,

1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:47.599
<v Speaker 1>uh fucking uh. Simon Mann was interviewed by The Daily

1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:50.320
<v Speaker 1>Mail about the coronavirus epidemic of all things, and the

1:10:50.360 --> 1:10:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Daily Mail being a giant piece of ship. They were

1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:54.880
<v Speaker 1>basically like, Hey, you spent a bunch of time in

1:10:54.960 --> 1:10:59.640
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinement. What's your advice for people going through quarantine? Oh? No,

1:11:02.720 --> 1:11:07.640
<v Speaker 1>the idea for a fucking article I can conceive of. Um.

1:11:07.680 --> 1:11:10.800
<v Speaker 1>But Man's quote is really funny. Quote. You have to

1:11:10.840 --> 1:11:13.360
<v Speaker 1>make your world the people in the place of your confinement,

1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:15.680
<v Speaker 1>and stop constantly thinking at this time we should be

1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:17.160
<v Speaker 1>doing this or that and the kids should be going

1:11:17.200 --> 1:11:21.559
<v Speaker 1>back to school. Those thoughts are the ones that hurt you. Um,

1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:23.920
<v Speaker 1>which I don't know, maybe is good advice. I kind

1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:27.000
<v Speaker 1>of refused to acknowledge this guy is being capable of

1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:31.320
<v Speaker 1>giving good advice, so fuck it. Yeah, fuck him. I

1:11:31.320 --> 1:11:34.479
<v Speaker 1>don't want to hear his advice. He honestly like, this

1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:36.439
<v Speaker 1>is this is how I where I'm at. That same

1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:38.760
<v Speaker 1>advice could be given by somebody else and I'd be like, oh,

1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:41.000
<v Speaker 1>good advice, could advice? It's given by him, and I'm like,

1:11:41.080 --> 1:11:54.960
<v Speaker 1>fucking I'm terrible advice. Yeah, fucking terrible advice. Well badka

1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:59.519
<v Speaker 1>you want to know would be good advice? Right now? Uh?

1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Robert advising people to go to go listen to Bridget's

1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:08.559
<v Speaker 1>new podcast. Yes, I can tell you all about it.

1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh please do um, thank you, Sophie. UM. My new

1:12:15.439 --> 1:12:17.759
<v Speaker 1>podcast is called There Are No Girls on the Internet.

1:12:17.800 --> 1:12:21.400
<v Speaker 1>It drops on I Heart Radio on July seven, and

1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:26.240
<v Speaker 1>it's all about exploring the intersections of gender, technology and

1:12:26.280 --> 1:12:29.080
<v Speaker 1>the Internet. You know. It's a culture show that really

1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:33.360
<v Speaker 1>asked how have women and other marginalized voices shaped the

1:12:33.400 --> 1:12:36.320
<v Speaker 1>experience of being online? And we really have shaped it.

1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:43.320
<v Speaker 1>So please check it out. Question mark exclamation point. Do it.

1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:48.719
<v Speaker 1>It's a requirement of joining our cult. Yep, yep. So

1:12:49.240 --> 1:12:54.880
<v Speaker 1>that's the episode. Go, I don't know, overthrow a sovereign nation.

1:12:55.120 --> 1:12:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Give it a shot. Just stay sober, stay sober. Yeah,

1:12:57.960 --> 1:13:01.240
<v Speaker 1>if you're gonna drink, do it after, don't do it during.

1:13:01.280 --> 1:13:03.800
<v Speaker 1>And if you're gonna drink, like keep your mouth set,

1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:06.760
<v Speaker 1>like don't get mouthie, don't drink and coup and don't

1:13:06.840 --> 1:13:10.160
<v Speaker 1>text in coup. All of the rules for driving apply

1:13:10.320 --> 1:13:20.880
<v Speaker 1>to coups. Yeah, that's the lesson all of them. That

1:13:20.960 --> 1:13:25.639
<v Speaker 1>was good. I like Jesus Christ. These people are so dumb,

1:13:25.760 --> 1:13:28.919
<v Speaker 1>all right, all right, cool, Well that's the s spode

1:13:32.439 --> 1:13:32.479
<v Speaker 1>h