1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. We've got 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: a classic episode that is near and dear to my heart. 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Oh my name is Ben Bowling, my co host nol 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Is on Adventures. We're joined as always with our super producer, 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. Max, how we doing? 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: You know what we're doing? 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not a movie star yet, but you know, 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 3: maybe a minor podcast star. 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Heah. I was gonna ask you if you ever thought 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: of gracing the big screen. 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 2: When I was younger, I had dreams of being a director. 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a Williams bro curse. 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: I guess right. 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: That's a shout out to our composer, the legendary Alex Williams, 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: Max's biological brother. Well, you know, I did a lot 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: of acting back in the day, and I still get 17 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: I still feel the code of the stage occasionally. Max. However, 18 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't make it to what we 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: call a list movie stardom. Hollywood is a very difficulty 20 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: from its beginning to the modern day, and it's a 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: matter of having opportunity, talent, drive, and honestly, no matter 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: how good you are, a lot of luck, right, nepotism 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: also plays a role. But as we're going to see 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: in this classic episode, way back in the day, there 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: was a guy who figured out a shortcut to becoming 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: a movie star. And it's a shortcut you might be 27 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: able to use today. Caveat caveat asterisk, folks. This classic 28 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: episode is about American soldiers who defected to North Korea 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: and then became movie stars. Now they weren't the best movies. 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: They weren't exactly you know, Ghostbusters two or Vibes or 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: Police Academy four or the other What are the other classics? 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: Oh? 33 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: The Phantom menas Sure, okay, return with Skywalker. I actually 34 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: never even finished that one. I only made it forty 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: five minutes then to it whatever most recent Marvel movie 36 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: came out. 37 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: Sure, going to assumes bad. 38 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: It's fantastic four. 39 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 3: Oh I heard that one actuallypposed to be pretty good. 40 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty good. I mean it's very family centric, 41 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: but yes, so these look Most of the news you 42 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: hear about North Korea involves the oppressed members of the 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: North Korean public attempting to escape the country, a great risk, 44 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: right and with profound and terrible consequences for their families. 45 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: But what we don't talk about as often is the 46 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: number of people who've attempted to escape into North Korea, 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: including American soldiers. So this classic episode is about a 48 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: handful of American soldiers who bought into North Korea's message, 49 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: the pitch they were selling. They got over the border, 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: across the DMZ, they became members of North Korean society, 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: and the first thing the North Korean government started to 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: do they brainwashed them, was to cast them as evil 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: guys in propaganda films. Yep, that's it. Here's the show. 54 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Oh Man, oh Man, 55 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: oh Man. It's our second episode of twenty nineteen, and 56 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: we're off to a great start because today we get 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: to talk about one of my favorite places, one of 58 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: the places I find most fascinating in the world, the 59 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Welcome to Ridiculous History. 60 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 4: My name is Ben, my name is Noah, and Ben, 61 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 4: you got me a pretty dope hat from there. 62 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. It's true. But I hope that 63 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: I don't make our super producer Casey Pegram envious. It's 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: just I saw the hat and thought of you and 65 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: it was like, it's not special if I get everybody 66 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: the same hat. 67 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: Casey, only, where's that one hat that says movies. 68 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: It's true, it's a hat that says movies. Casey on 69 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: the case. Yes, I did go to I think we 70 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: mentioned this on the show previously. In August of twenty eighteen, 71 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: I spent some time in Korea. It was amazing. It 72 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: was my first time. There's a lot of history there 73 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: and I was able to visit the DMZ. This is 74 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: not an episode about the DMZ. This is more I 75 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: think about the strange things that can happen when a 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: country is under tyrannical authoritarian rule and is largely isolated 77 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: from the rest of the world. We've talked about this 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: before in various podcasts. There are some universal human desires, 79 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. People love to be entertained, 80 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: people love to have delicious food, people love to feel 81 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: influential in their circle and stuff. But when it comes 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: to certain industries, it's very difficult for every single country 83 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: to make its own domestic version of that industry. Like 84 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: it's really difficult to start a car industry. That's why 85 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: there's a relatively small number of car companies that make 86 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: cars for the rest of the world. It's also pretty 87 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: difficult where it was for some time to start a 88 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: film industry, you know what I mean. 89 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 90 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: So today's story touches on so many things. It touches 91 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: on the film industry, It takes place in North Korea, 92 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: It touches on the US military. 93 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 4: It touches on the idea of defecting to another country, 94 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 4: which I think is fascinating. 95 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: Have you ever thought of defecting? Were you one of 96 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: those people who said sometime over the past few years, 97 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Canada. 98 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: Is it called defecting? 99 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: That would just be I think that would just be 100 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: being a refugee. Yeah, because to defect, at least in 101 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: the way we're talking, you would have to be an 102 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: active military member member. 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 104 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 105 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: And here's a question too. Don't you have to kind 106 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 4: of have like a real good reason to be a 107 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: refugee or to seek asylum or something like that. 108 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, That your life is in danger for maybe 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: your religious beliefs or maybe because of your sexual orientation, 110 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: stuff like that. 111 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: That you're suffering under some kind of totalitarian regime. 112 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: Or if you are forced to return to the country 113 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: you will be murdered. 114 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I'm not low be it unto 115 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 4: us to get political on ridiculous history, but starting to 116 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 4: feel like that could be the case for our country 117 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 4: one of these days. 118 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: So in the minds of most people outside of the 119 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: DPRK North Korea, it's an enigmatic country. We for a 120 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: long time didn't know a ton about what happened there. 121 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: We just knew that it was ruled by the Kim family, right, 122 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: and that the Kim family and their inner circle, the 123 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: military CADRA, ran the entire country, literally ran it, and 124 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: people people had to publicly adhere to a very rigid ideology, right, 125 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: one that elevated members of the Kim family to the 126 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: status of deities or demi gods. It seems like a 127 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: weird place to move to. I mean, anybody who's ever 128 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: moved in their lives, any of us who have maybe 129 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: relocated to a different town or a different state or 130 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: a different country, you can realize how disorienting that is. 131 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: So imagine if you are US Army Sergeant Charles Robert Jenkins. 132 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: You don't speak Korean, right, you don't particularly enjoy being 133 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: in the military, but you do love drinking. 134 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 4: You like knocking back a couple of cold ones with 135 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 4: your buds. Yeah, a probable buds with buds. Buds with buds. 136 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 4: We'll put approximately in this case. 137 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: Ten. On January fourth of nineteen sixty five, Sergeant Jenkins 138 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: deserted his infantry company at the edge of the de 139 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: militarized Zomee, walked alone across a minefield, did not blow up, 140 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: and defected to North Korea. 141 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 142 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: Man, the part that really got me there among the 143 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 4: multiple bonkers layers of this story is walked drunkenly across 144 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 4: a minefield. 145 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so after ten beers. Walked is probably a charitable description, Yeah, 146 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: which means he wasn't even mean careful. He did like 147 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: drunk boxing parkour across the minefield. 148 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 4: Maybe it's one of those things, sort of like the 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 4: in Inspector Gadget cartoons where he just kind of bumbles 150 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 4: his way and doesn't get killed by all these various 151 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 4: pitfalls that could kill him, but I shere luck he 152 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 4: happens to dodge every single one of them, and in 153 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 4: some kind of physical comedy pratfall screwball kind of way, 154 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 4: are you picturing this? 155 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh exactly. 156 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: But the folk Bear's I missed the mind, and. 157 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: People are still scouting for active minds in the DMZ today. 158 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: You were saying that, right, Yeah, so the fact that 159 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: he made it is a stroke of brilliant luck. What 160 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: happens though, when he does finally get into North Korea, 161 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: did they welcome in with the open arms? 162 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: Well not exactly. 163 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, they This is a theme that you keep you 164 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 4: see pop up because we're going to talk about a 165 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 4: handful of defectors. There weren't a lot, but there were 166 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 4: a few, and they all had they all shared a 167 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: similar kind of result. They were forced to hole up 168 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 4: in some pretty inhospitable housing and spend copious amounts of 169 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: time studying the writings or the principles of m Il Sung, 170 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 4: who is the patriarch of this Korean dynasty, this North 171 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: Korean dynasty. 172 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, the first Supreme Leader of North Korea from its 173 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: establishment in nineteen forty eight until he died in nineteen 174 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: ninety four, and it's also known as the Great Leader. 175 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: He was declared the Eternal President of the Republic in 176 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, so technically he still holds a governmental 177 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: position after his death. So Jenkins is forced to forced 178 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: to do homework, forced to study a jiu ja philosophy 179 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: for eleven hours every day. Tell me a little bit 180 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: about jeu che philosophy, Ben jew Jay. It's interesting because 181 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: it's somewhat controversial. It's considered in the DPRK Kim Il 182 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: Sung's his ideology a revolutionary theory that was originally thought 183 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: to be a variety of like Marxist Leninists thought while 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: it incorporated these different ideas that were uniquely Korean in character, 185 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: what eventually happened is that the North Korean government adopted 186 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: this concept of jucha into a set of principles to 187 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: justify policy decisions from the nineteen fifties to today. And 188 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: it's got an emphasis on agricultural independence, lack of international dependencies, 189 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. This it's controversial, however, because 190 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: this Korean style socialism, the thing that it is on 191 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: paper rarely makes it to what happens on the ground, 192 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's better in theory than 193 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: it is in practice. 194 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. 195 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff, and this might just be 196 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: an issue of translation, A lot of the stuff in 197 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: English is very very dry and very process oriented. It's 198 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: like a dusty philosophical tone and somewhat redundant, and Jenkin 199 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: test to read this for almost twelve hours every day 200 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: until he can recite the primary principles of juch in Korea. 201 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: That's right. 202 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 4: And then he wasn't even offered a choice. At this point, 203 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: he was forced to become a North Korean citizen and 204 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 4: was put to work as an English translator and teacher. 205 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,599 Speaker 4: And he also, you're gonna hear about this part a 206 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: little later, along with some of these other folks, was 207 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 4: an actor. But every move he made, as the police 208 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 4: would say, every move you make, every step you take, 209 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 4: supreme leaders watching you. 210 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing here a little bit. I thought that was 211 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: well done, the words of Sting. He was also forced 212 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: to marry a Japanese citizen who had been kidnapped by 213 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: North Korea. Her name was Hitomi Soga. She was kidnapped 214 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight to be a slave teacher of 215 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: Japanese language and customs for North Korean spies. The strange 216 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: thing about this is that Jenkins, as you mentioned, Neil Jenkins, 217 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: became an actor, but he became an actor in propaganda films. 218 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: So it turns out that Jenkins found his strange career 219 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: in propaganda films because the ruler, the son of Kim 220 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: Il Sung, Kim jong il, was a huge film buff, 221 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: like huge, casey, more of a film buff than any 222 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: of our mutual friends. Yeah, he has apparently like just 223 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: a huge collection of physical media. 224 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 4: And I read that it was somewhere in the neighborhood 225 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 4: of twenty thousand pieces yea. And most of them are 226 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 4: bootleg because they did not have a trade relationship with 227 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 4: the United States, so they would have had to be 228 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 4: smuggled or some kind of weird bootleg versions exactly. 229 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's strange because North Korea actually does have 230 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: a thriving animation in distry now and this pretty solid stuff. 231 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: But back then they wanted to make their own uniquely 232 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: North Korean feature films. And one of the first things 233 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: they did when they started making feature films is they 234 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: started making war stories, inspirational nationalistic narratives, propaganda right propaganda. 235 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: And for that they needed convincing enemies. They needed someone 236 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: to be depicted as agents of chaos from the American side, 237 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: and they said, oh, look we've got this guy, got 238 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: this sergeant Jenkins here. And then they also realized that 239 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: they had a couple of other defectors'. 240 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 4: Right, we have a guy by the name of Larry 241 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 4: Abshear who crossed the DMZ on May twenty eighth at 242 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 4: nineteen years old. Then we have Private James Joseph Dresnok 243 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 4: who followed Abshear's lead I think it was three months later. 244 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 4: And who else do we have them? 245 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: Then we also have Joseph White, who slipped into North 246 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: Korea in nineteen eighty two, and we have Jerry Parrish 247 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: who left for North Korea in nineteen sixty three. These 248 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: these men gave different explanations for their motivation, Right. There 249 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: were some who said they were sold on the communist lifestyle, 250 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: some just wanted to get away from their problems in 251 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: the West, and some just didn't know what they were doing, 252 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's not a situation 253 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: you could undo easily. 254 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 255 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: Jerry Parish didn't really give too many details other than 256 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 4: to say that if he ever returned home, his father 257 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 4: in law would kill him. So I guess a reasonable 258 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 4: solution to that is to, you know, defect from your country. 259 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: Right. 260 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: He seemed like he had a legitimate fear of his life. 261 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: We wanted to go off the grid goes back to 262 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: the UN idea of pleading asylum or refugee. 263 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is not the same as that, right, 264 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: I mean, this is very much like I am abandoning 265 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 4: my country, I am leaving my post, which would you 266 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 4: know result in like court martial or like trees and 267 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 4: charges I would think, wouldn't you. 268 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it would. And this will bring us back 269 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: to Charles Jenkins in a little bit. But we've got 270 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: to tell you these guys when they were cast in 271 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: these propaganda films, they were playing evil Americans. And one 272 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: thing that was amazing about this is over time, after 273 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: several films, they became local celebrities in North Korea. 274 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's a very insular country. So I mean, 275 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: they didn't really have that much access to any to 276 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: anything other than what was produced by the government. So 277 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 4: they would have been absolutely from the center, especially considering 278 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 4: that they were like the only Americans around. 279 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they would have made an impression. 280 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And we also have to say, without impinging 281 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: their character too much, none of these guys who defected 282 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: from the US Army were paragons of military virtue, you 283 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: know what I mean. There was one guy, Abshur that 284 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: we mentioned who was notorious for being a pothead. He 285 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: got caught multiple times getting highs. 286 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 4: I mean, you don't do it willy nilly while you're 287 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 4: on your posts, while you're at your job. 288 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: Definitely, you know, unless your job is like you work 289 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: for High Times or something that's still around, or Vice magazine. 290 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: It's true. 291 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: It is true. 292 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: So these guys are quickly involved in the most surreal 293 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: sort of life. They're not just movie stars, right, They're 294 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: also icons that can be used to antagonize other members 295 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: of the US military or South Korean military. They were 296 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: Absher and Dresnok, and then later Parrish and Jenkins were 297 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: featured in propaganda magazines. They had put out a magazine 298 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: called Fortune's Favorites that depicted the American smiling ear to ear, 299 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: marveling at the joyous benefits of life of the DPRK. 300 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: And they had things. They had different segments or columns. 301 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: One was called Letters from Abshear and Dresnik titled to 302 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: the American Soldiers South of the DMZ. And we've got 303 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: a quick quotation here, dear old fellow friends, enjoying Wallam, 304 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: Welcome from the North Korean people. I put off the 305 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: disgusting GI uniform and visited Pyongyang and other cities and 306 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: villages to tell the truth. The people in North Korea 307 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: are enjoying freedom, man happiness inaccessible to the working people 308 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: of the United States. Now, please don't be a victim 309 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: for the Wall Street, but for y'all withdrawal from South Korea. 310 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Now, I mean it sure sounds like we 311 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: mentioned this a little bit, but all of these gentlemen 312 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 2: experienced a very similar degree of indoctrination, and they were 313 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: forced to like they weren't fed properly. 314 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 4: They were basically just forced to memorize these core principles. 315 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 4: And I don't know enough time isolated and alone, and 316 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 4: I think weren't some of them forced to live together 317 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 4: and kind of pitted against each other in some kind 318 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 4: of weird hunger games he kind of scenario. 319 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Absher and Parish had to live together. Jenkins and 320 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: Dresnoch also had to share a home while they were 321 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: teaching English and a military academy. And that excerpt, that 322 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: excerpt had just read is clearly not written by these guys. 323 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: It's not written by Dresden. 324 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: Your accent was so convincing, man, Thank you. 325 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: That's because he did have an accent. He was still, 326 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: i think up to until his death, had a trace 327 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: of his rural North Carolinian accent. But what we see 328 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: when we look at the way North Korea treated these 329 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: defectors is very similar to what we see when people 330 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: are indoctrinated in cults. One of the big things that 331 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: every cult does is to bombard people with information. It 332 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: can be senseless, it can have its own internal logic. 333 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: The point is to remove the possibility of asking questions, 334 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: just make people memorize and recite things, and then it's 335 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: very clever about putting them in homes and kind of 336 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: pitting them against each other. 337 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 338 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: Is it makes it much more likely for them to 339 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: accept their forced marriages because when they were forced to 340 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: marry other kidnapped people, often from Japan or something, it 341 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: was entirely assumed by the government that these couples would reproduce, 342 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: and then they could use the quote unquote, this is 343 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: not a phrase we're using. They could use the quote 344 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: unquote ethnically ambiguous children as spies. They could blend in 345 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. 346 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely, Ben, And I think it's interesting that you talk 347 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 4: about the kidnapping aspect of this, because this is a 348 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 4: really interesting gray area to me kind of where it's 349 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 4: like they are submitting themselves to this. 350 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: They made the choice either. 351 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 4: Drunkenly or with some ideological kind of bent to cross 352 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 4: that DMZ into this other country and you know, toss 353 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 4: off there for the trappings of being an American, but 354 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 4: they also probably didn't fully know what they were signing 355 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: up for, and then they were basically thrown into this 356 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 4: indoctrination factory, you know, and forced to live in subhuman 357 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 4: conditions and turned into something that they were not when 358 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 4: they made that choice. So you know what I mean, 359 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 4: it's like sort of like a weird it was almost 360 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 4: like a Stockholm syndrome kind of thing, you know what 361 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 4: I mean. 362 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and some like in the case of James Dresnat, 363 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: he died happily in North Korea in twenty sixteen. He 364 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: was unrepentant. He professed support for communism. He was the 365 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: last living American defector in North Korea. He's also got 366 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: the nickname Comrade Joe in DPRK because again he's a 367 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: celebrity who was featured in a film called Crossing the 368 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: Line at South Korea's Pusan International Film Festival, and he 369 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: says he feels at home in the film. He never 370 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: regretted going to Korea. He seems very sincere about it. 371 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: He says his life is better because he defected, and 372 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: by North Korean standards, his life was pretty good. But 373 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: you can tell the lack of medical and dental care 374 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: took a toll on him, like his front teeth or 375 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: missy is that something that he acquired from North Korea, 376 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: like from violence or just fall out. He also had 377 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: a heavy, heavy drinking and smoking habits, so that took 378 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: a toll on him. 379 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 4: We'll get this Ben. That perspective is one side of 380 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 4: the coin. Our boy Charles Robert Jenkins, who was kind 381 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 4: of the he sort of spearheaded this whole thing. Yeah, 382 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 4: you could say he actually escaped or was able to 383 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 4: leave in two thousand and four quite recently. 384 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: So visit his mother, that's right. 385 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 4: And he had some slightly less sympathetic words or kind 386 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 4: words to characterize the experience of these four men, if 387 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 4: I may, oh please quote we were all young, dumb 388 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 4: soldiers from poor backgrounds. I had a pretty good military record, 389 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 4: while the other three were pretty much total coups. As soldiers. 390 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 4: The three of them, also like me, walked across the 391 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 4: DMZ without really thinking about the huge consequences of what 392 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 4: they were doing and without understanding what North Korea was 393 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 4: really like. They were trapped there in North Korea. All 394 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 4: of them quickly grew to hate the country and would 395 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 4: have left in a second if they could have. What 396 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 4: a sorry ass little foursome we were. So, according to Jenkins, 397 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 4: any expression to the contrary from any of these guys 398 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 4: who he was intimately familiar with, was either forced or 399 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 4: a product of some kind of brainwashing. 400 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it makes sense. Also, North Korea is a 401 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: very homogeneous, racist environment. I believe it was Jenkins who 402 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: says that he had only once been in the same 403 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: room with the Great Leader Kim Il sung, and Kim 404 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: snorted disapproval at jenkins Korean clothing and ordered him and 405 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: all other Westerners to never again sully Korean clothing. So 406 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: he wore a suit and tie afterwards. It's great detail 407 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: on that story. From the Atlantic. There's an article from 408 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen called the US Soldier who Defected to North 409 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: Korea by Graham Wood. Would highly recommend checking that out. 410 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: But as you said, Noel Jenkins is a little bit 411 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: different because after he spent nearly forty years in North Korea, 412 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: he got out. When he left North Korea in two 413 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: thousand and four, he was sixty four years old. The 414 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: army threw him in the stockade for twenty four days. 415 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: He got a dishonorable discharge, and then eventually he and 416 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: his wife moved to Japan, where he sold crackers. 417 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 2: Yep, full circle. 418 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: No, not really really No, it's weird though, because he's 419 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: still sort of an exotic icon right first in North Korea, 420 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: now in Japan. Apparently did you hear this? In Japanese culture, 421 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: he and Hitomi Soga's story about how they met and 422 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: how they married and you know, became a family is 423 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: considered one of the great modern romances. 424 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 4: Really, yeah, I want to see yuh, you know this 425 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 4: is such a bonker story. Wouldn't this make a fun 426 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 4: like kind of screwball Cohen brother Z you're gonna say, 427 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 4: kind of others? Yeah, film, Yeah, because like, these two 428 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 4: people find love under these really weird nineteen eighty four 429 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 4: esque Big Brother or Wellian conditions and then they stick 430 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 4: together and they eventually when their freedom Apparently when people 431 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 4: walk into the shop, they start whispering to each other 432 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 4: and they stare at Jenkins until he caves and says, 433 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 4: all right, come on, you can take a picture with me. 434 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 4: Photo is one of the only words he. 435 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: Knows in Japanese. 436 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 2: Interesting. 437 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: There's another soldier who was thought to have possibly defected 438 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: to North Korea, a guy named Roy Chung. His story 439 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: is pretty controversial. He was born in South Koreas Chung 440 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: grew and he moved to the US with his parents 441 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: in seventy three, he joined the army and when he 442 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: needed college money. And here's the strange thing, Noel, he 443 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: was nowhere near Korea when he disappeared. In nineteen seventy nine, 444 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: he vanished from his unit in Germany, and three months 445 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: later the North Korean state radio announced that he had defected. 446 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: The Pentagon and State departments say that's probably true, but 447 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: his parents are still convinced he was kidnapped. Wow, no 448 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: one knows what happened to him, He just disappeared. 449 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 4: Well, Ben, this has been a pretty incredible ride. I 450 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 4: think we have some pretty neat other kind of side 451 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 4: stories about some other interesting film related North Korean tales 452 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 4: that we could probably rap with if you want. I 453 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 4: don't know that there's much more to say about these 454 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 4: particular defectors. 455 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: Well, nothing that's been made public yet, right. The last 456 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: effector that you will hear brought up in these sorts 457 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: of lists is a guy named Joseph White, who was 458 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: considered the sixth and possibly final US soldier to defect 459 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: to the dpr K. He came aboard on August twenty eighth, 460 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. He shot a lock off a gate 461 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: at the Korean DMZ and started walking through the minefields. 462 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: His mom didn't believe it first off. She said he 463 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: loved this country, loved that uniform and everything about it. 464 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: He was nothing but a gung Ho army and gung 465 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: Ho Reagan guy. But back as barracks investigators found all 466 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: these pro North Korean leaflets and propaganda, his buddies were dumbfounded, 467 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: and no one heard of him until nineteen eighty six, 468 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: when White's parents got a letter from someone in North 469 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: Korea who said that they were friends with the soldier 470 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: and that he had drowned in a river while enjoying 471 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: leisure time outing. So don't know what happened to him. 472 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: We do know that North Korea produced a number of 473 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: propaganda films, not just unsung heroes, not just that nineteen 474 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: seventy eight banger. We have a little bit of a list. 475 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: What really stuck out to you on this list of 476 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: propaganda films? 477 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 4: Well, maybe this isn't necessarily a propaganda film, And I 478 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 4: think this is a fantastic story that apparently Kim Jong 479 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 4: il had some directors, very popular North Korean film directors 480 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 4: who escaped to Hong Kong, kidnapped and brought back to 481 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 4: North Korea and forced to make. 482 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: A ripoff of Godzilla. 483 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 4: Yes, Paul Gasari, and the plot of this is incomprehensible 484 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 4: to me. There must be some cultural thing that I'm 485 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 4: missing here. But apparently the story, it's the story of 486 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 4: a small doll made of rice that becomes a mythical 487 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 4: creature and helps the peasants, the proletariat, overthrow a monarchy 488 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 4: that is corrupting their land. So that's interesting that they 489 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 4: would cast it from the perspective of the proletariat, right, 490 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 4: like the peasants doing an uprising kind of right, how 491 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 4: does that? 492 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: How does that serve the regime? 493 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: You know, that's a that's a complex question. That's fair, 494 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: that's a complex question. It's a matter of perspective and zeitgeist, 495 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: isn't it. But you're right, Kim Jong Il was so 496 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: interested in film that he you know, oh do we 497 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: mention his book on the Art of the Cinema No, 498 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: so he describes his tactics of using movies as educational 499 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: tools to spread his ideals to the nation, sort of 500 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: the way Saddam Hussein wrote those historical fiction romance novels, 501 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: which is also really weird. 502 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 4: It's true, and I believe if you want to get 503 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 4: a little bit deeper dive into that, you can check 504 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 4: out our pal Robert Evans show Behind the Bastards, where 505 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 4: he does an episode specifically on those romance novels of 506 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 4: Saddam Hussein. 507 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: H he did. Yeah, that's true, and we'll probably have 508 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: Robert on the show again sometime soon. 509 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: I think we love that. 510 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: So Kim Jong Ils would be film industry was entirely 511 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: fueled by the kidnapping of directors, actors, other artists from 512 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: South Korea, from Japan in these various places. It seems 513 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: like he didn't understand that it was wrong to kidnap people. 514 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: He just thought that was the way you hired people. Yeah, exactly, 515 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: So there's also Soul's protests. There's Eternal Comrades, which is 516 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: it's based on this situation. In nineteen forty six, a 517 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: terrorist group tried to kill Kim Il sung. A Soviet 518 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: officer named Yakov Nevichenko saw the grenade and sacrificed himself 519 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: by throwing his body on top of it, and it 520 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: saved Kim Jong Il's life. And then this guy, the 521 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: Russian Nevchenko, had a large book strapped to the front 522 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: of his chest as a kind of body armor. It 523 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: saved his life too, and then that made him, I think, 524 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: the first Russian to receive the title of North Korean 525 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: national hero. And Eternal Comrades re enacts the events of 526 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: that day. 527 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: Genius is it well, yeah, in terms of it being 528 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 2: just wild. 529 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's weird because you can't see You can 530 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: see clips of these on YouTube and if you want 531 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: to watch them, but it's very difficult to find the 532 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: full copy of these in you know, entirely English forms, 533 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: or at least I looked around a little. I was 534 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: having a tough time. So if you find a clip 535 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: of a good North Korean propaganda film, send it our way, 536 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: post it on ridiculous historians, and I have a surprise 537 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: for you. 538 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: No give it to me, Ben. 539 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: So we know that the Kim dynasty is able to 540 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,239 Speaker 1: exert tremendous influence on the country. And that means that, 541 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: let's say, if Kim Jean ung ill really wants a 542 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: movie industry, then he can make the entire country help 543 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: support him in this endeavor. 544 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: Right, of course, he can do whatever he wants. 545 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: There's a new leader in town, Kim Jong Un, and 546 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: Kim Jong un has an obsession of his own. In fact, 547 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: just recently, North Korea officially urged all of its citizens 548 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: to make the country a basketball powerhouse. North Korean state 549 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: media has declared basketball to be a critical part of 550 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: the state's ideology and called on all workers and soldiers 551 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: to turn the nation into a global leader in the 552 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: sport of basketball. Interesting it's no coincidence, perhaps that Kim 553 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: Jong un is himself a huge fan of basketball, A 554 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: situation so surreal that it led to Dennis Rodman essentially 555 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: functioning as a diplomat. Do you remember that when it 556 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: popped up in the marry? 557 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: I believe isn't there a documentary or at least a 558 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: short about Dennis Robmins's behavior and the way he went 559 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: to Korea. I think there is. 560 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct so far. I think as of December 561 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, he's paid five visits to the capital of 562 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,239 Speaker 1: North Korea and even serenaded Kim Jong un with a 563 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: rendition of Happy Birthday during a basketball game. So am 564 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: I saying that if you were good at basketball, watch 565 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: out because you might be kidnapped by North Korea. 566 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: No, but you're not not saying it. 567 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: I'm not not saying it, is the point. 568 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So. 569 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: Let us know. Look, North Korea is a fascinating country. 570 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: Luckily it's much less isolated now due to the rise 571 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: of technology, you know, the increasing access people have to 572 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: the internet through mobile phones and things like that. They're 573 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: gross and ongoing human rights abuses in the country, and 574 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: in many ways it is a black hole. And much 575 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: of what we know about North Korea comes from people 576 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: who have left the country, who have defected for one 577 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: reason or another. Today's episode examined the very strange story 578 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: of the people who went in the other direction. Would 579 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: you ever do it? Casey Noel? Would you would you 580 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: ever defect to a distant, maybe not US friendly country 581 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: if it meant you could live as a king. 582 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: Why not? 583 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: You know? 584 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 2: Yolo? 585 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: All right, well, tell us which country we should defect to. 586 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. We would like 587 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: to hear your North Korea facts, the strange trivia that 588 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: you have found about it. You can share that with 589 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: us and your fellow listeners on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We 590 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: also recommend ridiculous historians our community page, which is just 591 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: chock full of ridiculous, scrumptuous history choco block. It's yes, 592 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: it's history nuggets. This is what I like to call it. 593 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. It's chock full of 594 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: good old history nuggets. 595 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 4: Big thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram, Big thanks 596 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 4: to Alex Williams who composed our theme. 597 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: And of course thanks to Gabe, our research associate, and 598 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: you know what, as we always say, thanks thanks to 599 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: you know Ben. 600 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 4: I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart, and 601 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 4: I whip that right across this net that does nonexistent net, 602 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 4: this imaginary net that's in the middle of our podcasting table, 603 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 4: right back at you buy man. 604 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: If we didn't spend so much money on that quizz 605 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: Grandfather clock, we could have an actual net. We could 606 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: be playing ping pong while we're doing the show. 607 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: That's a lot of multitasking. 608 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: That's a lot of multi time. I know, I have 609 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: to learn how to work this puppet before tonight, so 610 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: I got to get out of here. 611 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 4: You were really working that puppet a little while ago. 612 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 4: Once you've been we'll post it. 613 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: We'll post it somewhere on social But we do actually 614 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: have a puppet in the studio with us too. 615 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's weird when you see a puppet that 616 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 4: does not benefiting from the hand of the puppeteer. 617 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 2: It's just kind of lumped over in a chair. It's 618 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 2: a little bit unnerving. 619 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: It's a little bit unnerving. But maybe we'll even make 620 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: a propaganda video for ridiculous history with this puppet. Maybe 621 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: we can kidnap other podcasters to get them to help 622 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: us out. This is getting crazy. We should probably just 623 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: call it a day. 624 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 2: I agree, See you next time, folks.