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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And we're continuing on with our podcast.

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Speaker 2: Endless nostalgia talk. Which is fine by me.

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Speaker 1: Were you into Winnie the Pooh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was raised on the Disney version.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever had any of the

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Speaker 2: original storybooks. But as I became an adult, I grew

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Speaker 2: pretty fond of those. So, you know, every night you

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Speaker 2: and me and I will read a couple to each other.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's nice.

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Speaker 2: I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: Well, that sounded like a nice evening.

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Speaker 2: It really would, for sure. And maybe we will start

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Speaker 2: because I was reading some of these again and I'm like, God,

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Speaker 2: these are sweet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sweet stuff. I don't remember.

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Speaker 3: I guess I was into it a little bit, but

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Speaker 3: it doesn't stand out as like a hugely like formative

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Speaker 3: piece of culture from my childhood.

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Speaker 2: What did you think about it? rereading some of the stuff, though, today.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the same. It's just wonderful stuff. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a little bit of a bummer, like

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Speaker 1: the real life stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So much so I'm like, maybe we should just

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Speaker 2: skip that part because I've watched that biopic or biopic,

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Speaker 2: depending on your pronunciation. Which one? Goodbye, Christopher Robin.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: And it is harsh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's the real story. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: Disney made the Christopher Robin movie. I didn't see that one,

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Speaker 3: the one with Ewan McGregor, but that seemed to be

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Speaker 3: very much a Disney-fied version of the real Christopher Robin's adulthood.

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Speaker 2: I see. So this was about– it focused easily half

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Speaker 2: the movie on his very, very early life. I'd say

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Speaker 2: about two-thirds or three-quarters of the movie. Maybe five-eighths. We'll

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Speaker 2: just say that. But it was like based on an author–

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Speaker 2: like a really exhaustive biography from the 90s. And man,

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Speaker 2: it did not pull punches. It was tough to watch.

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Speaker 2: And the mom, Daphne, is not treated sympathetically at all. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: if there's a villain in the movie, it's her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree.

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Speaker 2: Well, at any rate, before we get off on that,

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Speaker 2: we should probably talk about the celebrated Winnie the Pooh.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully you can continue on separating the art, the

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Speaker 2: work of magic that A.A. Milne created. From, you know,

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Speaker 2: the real life behind the scenes stuff, because that's real life.

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Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh is not real life. And that's what

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Speaker 2: makes it so magnificent.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: But it was birthed from a real life thing, which

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Speaker 3: is I mean, the story starts out incredibly sweet. And

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Speaker 3: it starts out in Canada in 1914 when a soldier

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Speaker 3: shows up at basic training and has an orphaned black

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Speaker 3: bear cub. And this is Lieutenant Harry Colburn, who was

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Speaker 3: a veterinarian from Winnipeg.

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Speaker 1: Shout out, Winnipeg.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: City we went to for the very first time on

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Speaker 1: tour this summer.

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Speaker 2: Shout out Winnipeg.

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Speaker 1: Had a great time.

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Speaker 3: But he apparently, as the story goes, got this bear

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Speaker 3: from a train platform on his way to the military base.

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Speaker 3: It was for sale by a hunter who had killed

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Speaker 3: the bear's mom. So he brings this bear along who

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Speaker 3: was a little girl bear.

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Speaker 1: By the way.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of set me down the path of like,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, was Winnie the Pooh a girl bear? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: And apparently not. So we'll kind of get to that switch.

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Speaker 3: But because he was from Winnipeg, he nicknamed this real

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Speaker 3: bear Winnie and took this real bear to like the

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Speaker 3: barracks and it became like a little base bear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That's so Canada, too, you know?

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Speaker 1: Oh, totally.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Also, in the version of the story

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Speaker 2: in my head, Lieutenant Harry Colburn left that hunter a

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Speaker 2: bloody pulp just barely clinging to life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.

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Speaker 2: So Colburn is at the base and he's like called

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Speaker 2: off to World War I. And that's, you know, even

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Speaker 2: Canadian friendliness has its levels. They're like, no, you can't

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Speaker 2: take the bear with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he, because he was stationed in London, he took

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Speaker 2: it to the London Zoo and said, can you hang

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Speaker 2: on to my bear for me for a few years

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Speaker 2: until I come back? And the London Zoo said, sure.

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Speaker 2: And in the meantime, while he was gone, Winnie the

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Speaker 2: bear became a huge sensation because she had been raised

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Speaker 2: around humans. She was very gentle, so much so that

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Speaker 2: kids were able to interact with her, you know, smartly

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Speaker 2: or otherwise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But by the time Colburn came back from World War One,

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Speaker 2: he found like when he was so beloved, he was like,

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Speaker 2: I think you belong to London now, not me. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And especially with that cute voice that this bear had,

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Speaker 3: you know. So now we got to go to the

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Speaker 3: story of A.A. Milne, the author of these books, Alan

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Speaker 3: Alexander Milne. He was a writer before Winnie the Pooh

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Speaker 3: came along. He edited a humor magazine called Punch. He

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Speaker 3: was also sent off to World War I in 1914,

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Speaker 3: and he came back a mess. And especially if you

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Speaker 3: see this movie, like if that movie is the truth,

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Speaker 3: and it seems like it is because it's based on

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Speaker 3: that exhaustive book, then he had a pretty severe case

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Speaker 3: of PTSD after being injured and seeing the horrors of war.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and was very much– His view of the world

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Speaker 2: was really wrecked as well. Like he just couldn't understand

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Speaker 2: how people could send other people off to die like

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Speaker 2: the way he saw people die. And yeah, he had

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Speaker 2: what they called at the time shell shock. And he,

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Speaker 2: like you said, he had worked for Punch Magazine. He

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Speaker 2: kind of established himself, but he continued to write and

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Speaker 2: he tried writing other stuff. He wrote a play that

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Speaker 2: was turned into a silent movie. And he was an

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Speaker 2: essayist as well. I think it wasn't until about the

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Speaker 2: early to mid-1920s that he really found his calling. And

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Speaker 2: he found his calling after he had his one and

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Speaker 2: only child, Christopher Robin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of assume most people knew that

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Speaker 3: Christopher Robin was the real kid's name.

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Speaker 1: But if you didn't know, surprise.

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Speaker 2: You can't make that kind of name up.

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Speaker 1: You can't.

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Speaker 3: He had a nickname, which was Billy Moon. He was

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Speaker 3: born in 1920. And like you said, once he had

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Speaker 3: this little boy... He started writing children's poetry and in

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Speaker 3: 1923 wrote a poem called Vespers, which mentioned his son,

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Speaker 3: Christopher Robin, by name and the little stuffed bear that

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Speaker 3: he had. It was a realized stuffed bear. And if

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Speaker 3: you're ever in New York City, go to the New

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Speaker 3: York City Public Library because all these his little original

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Speaker 3: stuffed animals that these stories were based on are sitting there.

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Speaker 1: And it's wonderful to see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Under a glass case. And if you go at

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Speaker 2: the right time after closing. You can hear them banging

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Speaker 2: on the glass and coming out.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. I couldn't remember where I saw those when

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Speaker 1: I was doing the research.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I know I saw those somewhere and

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Speaker 3: I couldn't remember what museum.

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Speaker 1: And then when, who helped us with this? Julia?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Julia. This is a Julia joint.

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Speaker 1: A Julia joint. Yeah. When she said that it was

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Speaker 1: a New York Public Library, I remembered.

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Speaker 2: Did you say, by God, that's right.

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Speaker 3: I did. But you know, when you have a little

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Speaker 3: gnawing thing that you don't know the answer to and

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Speaker 3: it's so satisfying to.

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Speaker 1: Have that memory, even though it wasn't a memory?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's called my normal life, but I don't get

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Speaker 2: the satisfying remembrance. It's just, I have to just give

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Speaker 2: it up.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that, but I'll send you a

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Speaker 1: little stuffed bear.

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Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. I have a question for you though, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: I think you might be able to answer this. You

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Speaker 2: said that Winnie, Winnie was a girl bear, Winnipeg, the

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Speaker 2: Canadian bear. And Winnie the Pooh is not a girl bear.

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Speaker 2: So how did Winnie the Pooh get the name Winnie?

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Speaker 3: You're being coy, but I'll play along. You know, like

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Speaker 3: I said, he had this real stuffed bear. He got

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Speaker 3: it as a I think a one year old on

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Speaker 3: his first birthday from his mom, Daphne.

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Speaker 1: And he nicknamed this bear or he named it, I guess, Edward.

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Speaker 3: So right out of the gate, this bear is gendered.

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Speaker 3: And then later on, the name Winnie comes around because

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Speaker 3: he meets that real bear that we were talking about, Winnipeg,

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Speaker 3: at the London Zoo, nicknamed Winnie. So he changed Edward

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Speaker 3: to Winnie and just said, I guess you're still a boy.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think in the movie or somewhere his

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Speaker 2: dad said, well, is he a boy or is he

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Speaker 2: a girl? I thought he was a boy. He said

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Speaker 2: he's neither. He's a bear. Sure. Which is just a

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Speaker 2: great Christopher Robinism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: I knew. So Edward for a bear is not that odd.

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Speaker 2: It's actually kind of cute. But I knew a man

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Speaker 2: once who had a dog named Jason. And I still

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Speaker 2: to this day think that's the oddest dog name I've

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Speaker 2: ever heard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The real human names for dogs can be funny.

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Speaker 3: And I think Jason is one of them. But there

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Speaker 3: are definitely human names that are more that are funnier

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Speaker 3: than others.

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Speaker 1: Jason's pretty high up there. It is.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think the guy was being funny, which

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Speaker 2: made it even stranger.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess you're right.

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Speaker 3: What's a funny name, real name for a dog? I mean,

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Speaker 3: my in-laws had a dog named Josh. I don't think

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Speaker 3: I ever told you that.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They always named their dogs real names like Josh and Toby.

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Speaker 2: Toby, I can see. Josh, that's a surprising one too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's no Jason though.

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Speaker 1: How about Lois?

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Speaker 2: See, no, that's, yeah, that's almost, that's starting to be,

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Speaker 2: that's purposefully silly.

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Speaker 1: Or Elizabeth. That's a weird dog name.

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Speaker 2: That is a weird dog name. But I could also

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Speaker 2: see some real frou-frou like little Pomeranian or something.

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Speaker 1: I almost said Pomeranian. Look at us.

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Speaker 2: So, okay. I think we were talking about... Winnie the

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Speaker 2: Pooh at some point, right?

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: It went from Edward to Winnie after he met the

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Speaker 3: real Winnipeg bear at the London Zoo.

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Speaker 2: Well, while we're on it, what the heck is the

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Speaker 2: Pooh then?

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Speaker 3: Well, Pooh, I think, came from, he was on vacation,

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Speaker 3: the young Christopher Robin Milne, And there was this swan

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Speaker 3: that he nicknamed Pooh that he fed every morning. And apparently,

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Speaker 3: as the story goes, when the swan did not show up,

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Speaker 3: he would just say, Pooh, like, I don't care if

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Speaker 3: you're coming or not, even though obviously he did. And

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Speaker 3: so I guess it just sort of morphed into Winnie

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Speaker 3: the Pooh, hyphenated at first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cute. Yeah. One of the all time great names, too. Like,

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Speaker 2: I think that is in no small part one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons for Winnie the Pooh's belovedness. That is such

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Speaker 2: a great name.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 2: So as we said, A.A. Milne was definitely suffering from

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Speaker 2: PTSD and he was back in London. He was trying to,

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Speaker 2: you know, pick up his career again. And it was

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Speaker 2: just those two things were not going very well together.

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Speaker 2: So he decided that what would be best for him

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Speaker 2: and in turn his family was to leave the city

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Speaker 2: and move to Sussex. which is, I guess, it's called

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Speaker 2: the Home County. It's like an exurb of London. It's

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Speaker 2: not that far away, but it's pretty rural from what

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Speaker 2: I understand. And he bought Cotchford Farm near this forest,

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Speaker 2: was just exactly the kind of impetus they needed to

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Speaker 2: come up with the 100-acre woods, thanks to forays with

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Speaker 2: his son, which was, he says in the movie, and

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Speaker 2: I totally buy it, but these were the happiest times

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Speaker 2: of his life, making up games and stories with his,

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Speaker 2: you know, three, four, five-year-old son walking through Ashdown Forest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I hate to issue a correction, but I

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Speaker 3: know we're going to hear from listeners if you don't

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Speaker 3: correct 100-acre wood singular.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. That's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: A small thing, but it jumped out at me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Well, yeah, if it jumped out at you,

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Speaker 2: we were definitely going to get some mean emails. How

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Speaker 2: could you be so stupid? I know.

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Speaker 1: It's not an S. Did you mention the other stuffed animals?

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Speaker 3: I know I mentioned all of them being in the

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Speaker 3: New York City Public Library. But all of those characters

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Speaker 3: that would eventually end up in these books, he had

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Speaker 3: his little stuffies. He had a little pig. He had

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Speaker 3: a little donkey. He had a tiger and a kangaroo

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Speaker 3: and that bear, which is just all this stuff couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Be any sweeter.

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Speaker 2: No, it's true. That little piglet one is adorable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very much.

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Speaker 2: So Mill, um, you said he wrote Vespers and that

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Speaker 2: apparently became quite popular. It was just super sweet. It was, um,

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Speaker 2: definitely along the lines of what he would later write

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Speaker 2: for Winnie the Pooh. And the first thing he did

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Speaker 2: was start writing, uh, children's poetry. And then, uh, as

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Speaker 2: I said, like, as he started hanging out with his

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Speaker 2: son in the woods, just having fun time with them, um,

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Speaker 2: he would bring a little Chris, Christopher Robin would bring

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Speaker 2: his stuffed animals along on these walks. And, um, They

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Speaker 2: became like characters in the woods themselves. So the woods

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Speaker 2: very quickly became their home in these stories they were

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Speaker 2: making up.

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Speaker 1: And what were their names? We haven't even said these yet,

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Speaker 1: I don't think.

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Speaker 2: So you've got Piglet. I love Piglet. You have Eeyore,

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Speaker 2: the sad donkey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Tigger, the hyperactive tiger. But actually, he's not really a tiger.

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Speaker 2: He's a tigger. He's one of a kind. Yeah. Kanga,

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Speaker 2: the incredibly sweet and patient mom. Her Joey Rue, who's

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun to have around. And then, of course,

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Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh, the willy nilly silly old bear.

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Speaker 1: Oh, goodness. It's just too much for me. So I

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Speaker 1: got to take a break if that's all right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: All right. We'll be right back, everybody, with more on

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Speaker 3: Winnie the Pooh. All right, everyone, we're back with more sweetness.

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Speaker 3: It's Christmas Eve, 1925, and the London Evening News publishes

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Speaker 3: a short story and introduces the world to little poo.

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Speaker 3: It was called The Wrong Sort of Bees, and it

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Speaker 3: would be the first chapter of a short story collection.

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Speaker 1: Or I guess just a story collection. Well, they were

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Speaker 1: short stories, right?

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Speaker 2: They were short stories, sure.

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Speaker 1: All right, great.

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Speaker 3: And that published as a unit the next year. And

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Speaker 3: almost all of the characters were in this first group.

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Speaker 3: And they all had their distinct personalities that, you know,

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Speaker 3: as we'll see later, people extrapolated on like maybe what

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Speaker 3: the meaning of these personalities were.

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Speaker 1: But what were they like?

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Speaker 2: Well, there were two also that we didn't mention, rabbit

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Speaker 2: and owl. And that was because there was no rabbit

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Speaker 2: or owl stuffed animal. They came later. But they were

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Speaker 2: in this first book. Tigger was the only one who

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Speaker 2: didn't make his first appearance in the first storybook. He

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Speaker 2: came out in the second one. But Piglet, he was

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Speaker 2: always very scared and nervous and worried and anxious. Rabbit

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Speaker 2: was a perfectionist. He was very much... I never really

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Speaker 2: caught on to his character quite as much. But I

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Speaker 2: just know that he was very much preoccupied with everything

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Speaker 2: going right, if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Owl was one of those guys who likes to hear

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Speaker 2: himself talk and would just say stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The other characters, you know, Winnie the Pooh frequently talked

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Speaker 2: about how he didn't have a brain or he was

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Speaker 2: filled with fluff or something like that. And so the

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Speaker 2: other characters are taking whatever Owl says is, you know, correct,

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Speaker 2: even though it's sometimes wildly off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: I think you already mentioned earlier that Eeyore was, of course, sad.

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Speaker 3: And then Kanga was obviously is the mom, a very

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Speaker 3: nurturing character.

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Speaker 1: And you got Rue, who was a little, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's a little rambunctious baby.

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Speaker 2: He was like the tiny Tim. Just super sweet and cute.

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Speaker 2: Just having him present was fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was The Wrong Sort of Bees. And

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Speaker 3: then you mentioned The House on Pooh Corners when Tigger

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Speaker 3: comes along. And we should talk about The Wrong Sort

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Speaker 3: of Bees because it kind of just lays out a

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Speaker 3: template for, I.

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Speaker 1: Guess, things to come.

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Speaker 2: And it's just so gosh darn cute, too.

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Speaker 1: It's so cute.

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Speaker 3: And it sets the tone for, like, these personalities and

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Speaker 3: what readers are in.

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Speaker 1: For, right?

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Speaker 2: Yes. So in it– The whole thing, and actually the

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Speaker 2: book ends the same way in the opposite direction. But

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Speaker 2: Christopher Robin, the real boy, comes down the stairs dragging

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Speaker 2: his bear by the arm and asks his father to

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Speaker 2: tell him a story. We'll tell his bear a story.

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Speaker 2: And that's how the whole thing starts. Winnie the Pooh

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Speaker 2: is sitting under a sign that says Mr. Sanders. And

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Speaker 2: that's the only mention that's ever made of it, as

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Speaker 2: far as I can tell. It's just such a weird

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Speaker 2: little detail. But he starts trying to go for honey

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Speaker 2: because he realizes he hears some bees. And to him,

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Speaker 2: the only purpose of bees is to make honey for

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Speaker 2: him to eat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that honeypot, always getting them into trouble.

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Speaker 3: And it starts off right off the bat in book one.

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Speaker 3: So he wants to climb up this tree, obviously get

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Speaker 3: into that honeypot. A branch breaks and he falls down.

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Speaker 3: And to a little prickly, prickly bush. And he's like,

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Speaker 3: all right, I've got a new idea. I wish I

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Speaker 3: could do the voice. But he says he's got a

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Speaker 3: new idea. He wants to become a cloud and trick

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Speaker 3: these bees. So he decides to become a dark cloud

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Speaker 3: by rolling himself in mud, borrows a blue balloon from

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Speaker 3: his friend, Christopher Robin, so he can float up. And

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Speaker 3: he's like, this is going to work. They're going to

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Speaker 3: be scared of this dark cloud. And I'm going to

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Speaker 3: get that honeypot.

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Speaker 2: Yes. But the bees don't seem to be buying it.

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Speaker 2: And so he asked Christopher Robin to go get his

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Speaker 2: umbrella and walk underneath Pooh with the umbrella out saying, tut, tut,

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Speaker 2: it looks like rain to help fool the bees even further.

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Speaker 2: That still doesn't work. But now Pooh realizes that he's

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Speaker 2: stuck up there because if he just lets go of

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Speaker 2: the balloon, he's going to fall and it's going to hurt.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: And the title Wrong Sort of Bees comes from The

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Speaker 3: fact that the bees don't buy into his plan and

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Speaker 3: Pooh says these are the.

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Speaker 1: Wrong sort of bees, which is adorable.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: So Christopher Robin helps him out, shoots a hole in

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Speaker 3: that balloon, and he drifts down safely, doesn't learn a lesson,

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Speaker 3: which is a very much established sort of thing for

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Speaker 3: Winnie the Pooh. Like he's still going to go after

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Speaker 3: that honeypot a million times in the future.

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Speaker 2: So that was the first one. That was the one

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Speaker 2: that premiered in the London Evening Times on Christmas Eve. 1925.

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Speaker 2: And that was the first chapter in that book. And

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Speaker 2: the other ones are super cute, too. Like there's one

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Speaker 2: where Pooh goes to visit Rabbit and is Warren and

396
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:10,830
Speaker 2: eats too much. He takes too much advantage of Rabbit's

397
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Speaker 2: hospitality and starts eating condensed milk and honey. But he

398
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Speaker 2: doesn't want to make a nuisance of himself. So he

399
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Speaker 2: very politely tells Rabbit, no need to get me any bread.

400
00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:22,380
Speaker 2: I'll just eat the condensed milk and honey as is.

401
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,700
Speaker 2: And he gained so much weight that he can't get

402
00:19:24,820 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 2: back out The hole to Rabbit's Warren. And he gets

403
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,660
Speaker 2: stuck and has to stay there for a week while

404
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,580
Speaker 2: he goes on a diet until he slims down enough

405
00:19:33,619 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 2: to be pulled out.

406
00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:38,810
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a lot of food and gluttony related storylines

407
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Speaker 3: with Winnie.

408
00:19:40,050 --> 00:19:42,869
Speaker 2: For sure. For sure. But he's also adorable. And one

409
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,010
Speaker 2: of the other things that's so adorable to me is

410
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Speaker 2: the way that Christopher Robin looks at Pooh and sees Pooh. Mm-hmm.

411
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,100
Speaker 2: He very frequently thinks to himself, silly old bear. And

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00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 2: it's just such like a loving, tender feeling that's just

413
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:01,109
Speaker 2: evoked in just that little phrase that he thinks of

414
00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:03,710
Speaker 2: him and calls him sometimes. And it's just super cute.

415
00:20:04,030 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 1: I love it.

416
00:20:04,910 --> 00:20:06,889
Speaker 2: I don't know if we've gotten across. This stuff is

417
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:07,590
Speaker 2: really cute.

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00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,010
Speaker 1: It is. It's so sugary sweet.

419
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:12,610
Speaker 3: So we should talk about the illustrations a little bit

420
00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:15,430
Speaker 3: because they have become just completely iconic.

421
00:20:16,170 --> 00:20:20,369
Speaker 1: It was an illustrator named E.H. Shepard. And they're very,

422
00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:22,619
Speaker 1: you know, it's nothing fancy. It's pretty straightforward stuff.

423
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:27,900
Speaker 3: I don't think they became color until 1931.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

425
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 2: I didn't see that anywhere. I saw a couple of

426
00:20:31,260 --> 00:20:33,580
Speaker 2: references to it, but all I ever saw were black

427
00:20:33,619 --> 00:20:36,660
Speaker 2: and white, like just pencil or just line illustrations, uncolored.

428
00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:38,629
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's somewhere in here. So we'll get to it.

429
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,740
Speaker 3: I think it was the early 1930s. But yeah, initially

430
00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:43,939
Speaker 3: black and white. And again, nothing, nothing fancy going on.

431
00:20:45,530 --> 00:20:50,450
Speaker 3: Very simple sort of shapes and lines. Shepard also had

432
00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:52,950
Speaker 3: gone to World War One and had a pretty rough

433
00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:55,750
Speaker 3: go of it. And it seems like and, you know,

434
00:20:55,790 --> 00:20:59,620
Speaker 3: this is in the movie as well, that England just

435
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,859
Speaker 3: really sort of post-war England needed this sweetness in their lives.

436
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:07,980
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's one reason why it's posited. It became so

437
00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 2: popular so quickly. This is like an enormous sensation, pretty

438
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 2: much out of the gate, as we'll see. And I

439
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,199
Speaker 2: think that's also why a lot of people point to

440
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: it as being just as popular 100 years on, you know.

441
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,340
Speaker 2: People just need that kind of sweet, like, way of

442
00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:30,940
Speaker 2: living and looking at life, you know, without being bowled

443
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 2: over by it at every turn, you know, just kind

444
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,510
Speaker 2: of saying that's. That's life. You just keep going and

445
00:21:36,550 --> 00:21:37,930
Speaker 2: be positive. Yeah.

446
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:40,470
Speaker 1: There's some good, simple messages in all these books.

447
00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 3: He originally modeled the drawings on the real stuffed animals

448
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:47,859
Speaker 3: from Christopher Robin, except when he got to the final

449
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:52,020
Speaker 3: version of Winnie, that came from inspiration. That was inspired

450
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: by his own kid's teddy bear. It was a little chubbier,

451
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,030
Speaker 3: I think, than Christopher Robin's real doll.

452
00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:58,710
Speaker 2: Yeah.

453
00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:01,429
Speaker 1: Not his real doll. You know what I'm saying.

454
00:22:01,470 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: Right. He he also had to like I said, there

455
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: wasn't a rabbit or an owl doll. So he had

456
00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: to use live models with Christopher Robin holding them still

457
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,330
Speaker 2: on the table, holding them down so they wouldn't wriggle

458
00:22:14,369 --> 00:22:15,450
Speaker 2: too much or get away.

459
00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:19,129
Speaker 3: That reminds me of if you look, I might have

460
00:22:19,150 --> 00:22:21,330
Speaker 3: said this before at some point. If you look at

461
00:22:21,369 --> 00:22:24,810
Speaker 3: baby pictures of my brother, you will notice that my

462
00:22:24,869 --> 00:22:28,619
Speaker 3: mother's hand is in the photo propping him up because

463
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,470
Speaker 3: my brother was so round. He would roll over in

464
00:22:32,930 --> 00:22:35,620
Speaker 3: Olin Mills' portrait. So we have a lot of baby

465
00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:38,300
Speaker 3: pictures of Scott with my mom's hand in there.

466
00:22:38,859 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: Man, he's like a weeble that'll wobble but won't fall down. Yeah.

467
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:44,420
Speaker 1: And now he can't gain a pound, you know. So

468
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:45,750
Speaker 1: thanks for that.

469
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:50,290
Speaker 2: Yeah. One other thing about E.H. Shepard that stuck out

470
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:52,629
Speaker 2: to me is in that The Wrong Sort of Bees,

471
00:22:53,410 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 2: that first chapter. Uh-huh. Where Christopher Robin shoots the balloon

472
00:22:57,740 --> 00:22:59,740
Speaker 2: so that the air slowly comes out so Pooh can

473
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: come down safely to the ground. If you look at

474
00:23:03,140 --> 00:23:06,140
Speaker 2: his gun, it's a pop gun. There's like a cork

475
00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:08,060
Speaker 2: on a string hanging out of it, which I thought

476
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: was a good little touch from E.H. Shepard. And that

477
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: was like the kind of thing that he would have done. Because, again,

478
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: this whole thing is like meant to be the antithesis

479
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 2: or the antidote to the war that Europe just went through.

480
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,050
Speaker 2: And I think that's evidence of how they were trying

481
00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:25,050
Speaker 2: to make things feel.

482
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:28,619
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bazooka would have been completely inappropriate.

483
00:23:28,910 --> 00:23:31,130
Speaker 2: With like smoke coming out of the end.

484
00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:32,869
Speaker 1: That would be weird.

485
00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:35,050
Speaker 3: If you think that some of this original stuff is

486
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:39,430
Speaker 3: very valuable, you'd be right. Because in 2018, the original

487
00:23:39,450 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 3: 100-acre wood map that Shepard hand-drew sold at auction for $ 568, 761,

488
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,460
Speaker 3: which set a record for a single book illustration. And

489
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:56,629
Speaker 3: then just last year in 2025– someone paid 120 or

490
00:23:57,190 --> 00:24:01,110
Speaker 3: close to 120 grand for a collection of Milne's early

491
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:05,290
Speaker 3: drafts and like, you know, poems, illustrations, stuff like that.

492
00:24:05,970 --> 00:24:09,659
Speaker 3: And apparently there was some notes to Shepard from Milne

493
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: that says the illustrations were very poor.

494
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,180
Speaker 1: Not cool.

495
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 2: So that hand-drawn map of the 100-acre wood that went

496
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: for 600K, I was looking at it and it's purported

497
00:24:22,540 --> 00:24:27,630
Speaker 2: to have been Drawn with scare quotes by Christopher Robin

498
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:31,369
Speaker 2: with the help of E.H. Shepard because it says drawn

499
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:36,209
Speaker 2: by me. And then it says Mr. Shepard helped like H.E.L.P.D.

500
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting.

501
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:40,740
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like that, you know, that makes it kind of cute.

502
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Once again, cuteness abounds with all these sad, sad

503
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: adults trying to work their way through their war drama.

504
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Agreed. And again, like we said, there's some other

505
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: bittersweet sadness to it as well behind the scenes. But

506
00:24:56,859 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: before we get to that, I said that this was

507
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: like a huge, huge phenomenon right out of the gate.

508
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,500
Speaker 1: Yeah.

509
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: I think it sold 200,000 copies in Great Britain and

510
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: the United States by the end of the year, which

511
00:25:10,859 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: is even more impressive when you realize that it came

512
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: out in October. Yeah. That is unheard of at the time.

513
00:25:18,170 --> 00:25:21,670
Speaker 2: It was like... On the level of what Mickey Mouse

514
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:24,230
Speaker 2: would soon be, I think Steamboat Willie came out around

515
00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:26,350
Speaker 2: the same time, but I don't think was quite as

516
00:25:26,410 --> 00:25:32,380
Speaker 2: big as Winnie the Pooh was. And Winnie the Pooh

517
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,500
Speaker 2: became the first mass-marketed children's character, thanks to a guy

518
00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:39,900
Speaker 2: named Stephen Schlesinger, who bought the Canadian and U.S. rights

519
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: in 1930. Yeah, he paid $ 1, 000 for....

520
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:47,310
Speaker 3: Plus royalties. I'm not sure how that worked. I was

521
00:25:47,369 --> 00:25:48,830
Speaker 3: trying to get more detail, but it's hard to find

522
00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:55,649
Speaker 3: stuff about these old deals. And could this number be correct,

523
00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:59,389
Speaker 3: or did Julia already West Egg that number up?

524
00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:02,210
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I could see it being correct.

525
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: All right.

526
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:06,580
Speaker 3: So according— I' m going to blame Julia.

527
00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:06,980
Speaker 1: If this is wrong.

528
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,500
Speaker 3: But within a year of purchasing the rights to Poo

529
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:18,570
Speaker 3: and Company— Apparently, he was making in 1931 dollars, 50

530
00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:22,790
Speaker 3: million bucks a year on merch and media, which would

531
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:26,910
Speaker 3: be over a billion dollars a year in today money.

532
00:26:27,650 --> 00:26:31,950
Speaker 2: I mean, he put it on absolutely everything and licensed

533
00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:35,690
Speaker 2: it to to a lot of people to do more

534
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:38,130
Speaker 2: than just make toys with, like to make like little.

535
00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: animated shorts or make records that were, you know, the

536
00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:46,660
Speaker 2: stories acted out, that kind of stuff. So, I mean,

537
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,780
Speaker 2: that is a lot of money, but Julie is usually

538
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:51,740
Speaker 2: pretty good about saying like in today dollars or something

539
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: when she means that. Yeah.

540
00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: I mean, what I tried to do was look up

541
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: Schlesinger's like net worth when he died and they didn't,

542
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,060
Speaker 3: you know, they don't have kind of information on that

543
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 3: kind of stuff because I think he died in the

544
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:06,790
Speaker 3: 1950s maybe. But he was well known in the business

545
00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: for like merchandising and buying rights to a lot of characters.

546
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,179
Speaker 3: And there's a really long, detailed, I don't even know

547
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 3: all the details, story of the rights and how that

548
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,469
Speaker 3: worked over the years. Because Milne died in 1956 and

549
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:25,210
Speaker 3: left the rights to his widow through a trust and

550
00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:29,109
Speaker 3: to his widow and three organizations, the Westminster School, the

551
00:27:29,150 --> 00:27:32,780
Speaker 3: Royal Literary Fund and the Garrett Club. And Disney bought

552
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: the rights from the widow at least that she controlled

553
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,710
Speaker 3: in 61 and struck a deal with the other four–

554
00:27:39,869 --> 00:27:42,689
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the other three organizations to like pay them

555
00:27:42,770 --> 00:27:47,170
Speaker 3: out semi-annually. And then I think in 2001, Disney bought

556
00:27:47,210 --> 00:27:49,930
Speaker 3: it outright from those other entities for $ 350 million. Wow.

557
00:27:49,950 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 3: But it's– The article went on and on about like

558
00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:58,330
Speaker 3: more nuance and subtleties over the years and lawsuits and

559
00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:00,430
Speaker 3: all this kind of crazy stuff, obviously, when you're dealing

560
00:28:00,450 --> 00:28:03,570
Speaker 3: with hundreds of millions of bucks. But long story short,

561
00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:07,730
Speaker 3: Disney ultimately acquired all the rights because I think Walt

562
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:10,060
Speaker 3: Disney's daughter really loved Winnie the Pooh.

563
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,780
Speaker 1: And he was like, I'll buy it for you then.

564
00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:14,780
Speaker 2: Yeah. She said, get it for me, daddy. I want it.

565
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,780
Speaker 3: And I don't think we mentioned the real Christopher Robin

566
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,010
Speaker 3: voiced Christopher Robin on those early records and radio shows.

567
00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:27,490
Speaker 2: Right. Yes, he became a overnight sensation. His dad became

568
00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:32,590
Speaker 2: a celebrated literary sensation overnight as well, because not just kids,

569
00:28:32,609 --> 00:28:34,629
Speaker 2: but adults loved Winnie the Pooh right out of the

570
00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: gate as well. So, yes, they became a huge smash

571
00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:43,140
Speaker 2: hit in the toast of England, at least if not further,

572
00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:47,770
Speaker 2: which became problematic for them for sure. I say we

573
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:49,370
Speaker 2: take a break and we'll come back and talk about

574
00:28:49,410 --> 00:28:52,290
Speaker 2: some of those problems after, well, the break.

575
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:53,110
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

576
00:28:53,290 --> 00:29:21,420
Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you. OK, Chuck, thanks for leaving it to

577
00:29:21,460 --> 00:29:25,810
Speaker 2: me to kick this part off. But as we mentioned,

578
00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:30,570
Speaker 2: that movie from 2017, Goodbye, Christopher Robin, was based on

579
00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:35,210
Speaker 2: a biography of A.A. Milne from 1990. And I don't

580
00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:40,140
Speaker 2: remember the biographer's name, but it was like it. it

581
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: did not, like I said, pulled many punches, if any.

582
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,070
Speaker 2: And it was starring Domhnall Gleeson, Brendan Gleeson's son. Yeah,

583
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:50,990
Speaker 2: he was in Ex Machina, a few other movies, but

584
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:53,110
Speaker 2: he was also in Frank. Have you ever seen Frank?

585
00:29:54,530 --> 00:29:56,610
Speaker 1: I don't think so. What was that?

586
00:29:57,220 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: It's an indie film about an indie band led by

587
00:30:01,090 --> 00:30:04,250
Speaker 2: a guy with a giant paper mache head who no

588
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:06,870
Speaker 2: one has ever seen. He will not take it off.

589
00:30:07,310 --> 00:30:10,950
Speaker 2: And it turns out it's Fassbender playing Frank. Yeah, yeah.

590
00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:11,870
Speaker 1: That's a true story.

591
00:30:11,890 --> 00:30:13,690
Speaker 2: Is it? Yeah.

592
00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:17,540
Speaker 3: And I think our old buddy John Ronson wrote the

593
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: book that that was based on, if I'm not mistaken.

594
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: Well, that is a great, great movie. I'm guessing the

595
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: book's even better because that's usually the case.

596
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't read the book or see the movie.

597
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: I need to do both.

598
00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:32,100
Speaker 2: Go see the movie for sure. It's a great little movie.

599
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I would recommend it to anybody.

600
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a weird true story. And of course,

601
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 3: right up John Ronson's alley.

602
00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:44,950
Speaker 2: For sure. So anyway, that was neither here nor there.

603
00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:50,890
Speaker 2: But the point of Goodbye, Christopher Robin was this idea

604
00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:55,850
Speaker 2: that A.A. Milne essentially stole Christopher Robin, the real life

605
00:30:55,890 --> 00:30:59,770
Speaker 2: Christopher Robin's childhood and sold it in book form. He

606
00:30:59,950 --> 00:31:02,370
Speaker 2: packaged it and sold it and got very, very rich

607
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:05,730
Speaker 2: off of it. And his son became very, very unhappy.

608
00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: Even before he realized that that's– even before he could

609
00:31:09,140 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: put into words something like that, he just knew something

610
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,620
Speaker 2: was quite wrong. And he did not like all of

611
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,060
Speaker 2: the attention. He liked it at first, but very quickly

612
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,860
Speaker 2: it became overwhelming and overtaxing for him. And his nanny, Olive,

613
00:31:22,940 --> 00:31:25,220
Speaker 2: who he loved very much. Right.

614
00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: Who in the movie was played by– what's her name from–

615
00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:29,420
Speaker 3: Kelly McDonald.

616
00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Trainspotting. That book, by the way, was written by

617
00:31:32,660 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: Anne Thwaite.

618
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: Thank you.

619
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: And– In that book, she goes on to sort of

620
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: detail how in some ways this kind of, I don't

621
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,740
Speaker 3: want to go so far as to say ruin their lives,

622
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: but it wasn't a great thing. Like, you know, this

623
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: was a writer, A.A. Milne, who wanted to do other things.

624
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 3: He was like, I don't want to write this stuff anymore.

625
00:31:54,340 --> 00:31:57,100
Speaker 3: I was a satirist to begin my career and then

626
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,740
Speaker 3: a playwright. And nobody wanted that. Everyone just wanted more poo.

627
00:32:02,890 --> 00:32:05,850
Speaker 3: And he felt, you know, I think this happens sometimes

628
00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: when you get a big breakout hit with a thing

629
00:32:08,730 --> 00:32:10,020
Speaker 3: sort of imprisoned by that thing.

630
00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:13,900
Speaker 2: Yeah. And something similar happened to E.H. Shepard, although I

631
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: don't think to nearly the degree that happened to A.A.

632
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: Milne and Christopher Robin in his real life, not his career,

633
00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:23,020
Speaker 2: his real life. He ran into the same problems that

634
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: his father ran into with his career. But, you know,

635
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:31,210
Speaker 2: the point is made that Shepard died. He was a

636
00:32:31,290 --> 00:32:36,450
Speaker 2: political cartoonist, so he had an edgy, satirical career as well.

637
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: And people were like, draw some more piglets for us.

638
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: But I did see that he continued to have a

639
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,260
Speaker 2: very long, illustrious career at Punch magazine into the late 40s.

640
00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: So his career wasn't totally derailed like A.A. Milne's was.

641
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: He's like, here's Pooh as Uncle Sam.

642
00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: Exactly. And here he is as Chairman Mao.

643
00:32:58,180 --> 00:32:58,740
Speaker 1: Yeah.

644
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,620
Speaker 3: So Christopher Robin Milne had a rough go. Like you said,

645
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,610
Speaker 3: he was bullied all kind of all throughout school. Kind

646
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:11,310
Speaker 3: of that thing where anytime, you know, you think like

647
00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:14,250
Speaker 3: being a famous kid is a cool thing, but it

648
00:33:14,510 --> 00:33:16,230
Speaker 3: seems to never work out that way at school.

649
00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:17,430
Speaker 1: Like you become a target.

650
00:33:18,530 --> 00:33:21,730
Speaker 3: He went off to war, enlisted to to kind of

651
00:33:21,770 --> 00:33:23,890
Speaker 3: prove that, you know, all the kids would call him names.

652
00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:25,650
Speaker 3: They would call him a sissy and like names that

653
00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:27,770
Speaker 3: they said, you know, at the time like that.

654
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:28,750
Speaker 2: And.

655
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,300
Speaker 3: Went off to war, graduated college, and even in his

656
00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:34,620
Speaker 3: professional life, like, I.

657
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: Get the idea.

658
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: It's sort of like, you know, he goes to get

659
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: a job and they're like, wait, Christopher Robin, you're that

660
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: Christopher Robin?

661
00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:42,380
Speaker 2: No way.

662
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: And yeah, and he just had a hard time breaking

663
00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: free of being that character, even though he was a

664
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,100
Speaker 3: real human.

665
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,130
Speaker 2: Yeah, he and he became more and more resentful, especially

666
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:54,670
Speaker 2: as he was able to put into words what he

667
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:56,650
Speaker 2: felt like his father did for him or to him.

668
00:33:57,630 --> 00:34:00,650
Speaker 2: as far as his childhood goes. And also, his father

669
00:34:00,690 --> 00:34:03,670
Speaker 2: wasn't exactly like walking around with his heart on his sleeve.

670
00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:08,370
Speaker 2: He supposedly was very, very reserved, maybe even more than

671
00:34:08,430 --> 00:34:12,330
Speaker 2: Domino Gleason portrays him in that movie, according to the

672
00:34:12,370 --> 00:34:18,930
Speaker 2: real Christopher Robin later in life. So for his adolescence

673
00:34:18,989 --> 00:34:21,610
Speaker 2: all the way up to middle age, he had a

674
00:34:21,730 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: seething resentment for his father. And it wasn't until later

675
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,300
Speaker 2: in life that he finally was able to happily make peace,

676
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:32,690
Speaker 2: not just with his father, but also with Winnie the Pooh.

677
00:34:33,050 --> 00:34:33,230
Speaker 1: Yeah.

678
00:34:33,250 --> 00:34:36,450
Speaker 2: And came to appreciate Winnie the Pooh again. Because Christopher Robin,

679
00:34:36,469 --> 00:34:39,450
Speaker 2: the real life Christopher Robin, ironically, was the one kid

680
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:43,330
Speaker 2: in the entire world over generations who hated Winnie the Pooh.

681
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:46,089
Speaker 2: And he was able to overcome it, which I think

682
00:34:46,150 --> 00:34:50,030
Speaker 2: is a really triumphant story. But he had a quote

683
00:34:50,070 --> 00:34:52,989
Speaker 2: I read when he was, I think, age 60. He said,

684
00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:55,250
Speaker 2: my father had got where he was by climbing on

685
00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: my infant shoulders. He filched from me my good name

686
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,020
Speaker 2: and left me with nothing but the empty fame of

687
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 2: being his son. That's how he felt about his father

688
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,540
Speaker 2: for decades.

689
00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: That is rough. And his dad was a deeply damaged

690
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: human because of the war.

691
00:35:10,739 --> 00:35:11,859
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

692
00:35:11,980 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: We promise sadness, everyone. So I hope we're delivering on that.

693
00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. 1932 is when he got color. on a record sleeve.

694
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: And that's when the iconic red shirt became a thing.

695
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,609
Speaker 3: And I guess we should talk a little bit about

696
00:35:27,630 --> 00:35:30,610
Speaker 3: the Disney cartoons. Like I said, they got the rights

697
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:34,529
Speaker 3: in 61. And I think five years after that, the

698
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,450
Speaker 3: first featurette came out, Winnie the Pooh and the Honey Tree.

699
00:35:38,610 --> 00:35:42,050
Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, it was like a living, breathing,

700
00:35:42,340 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: moving thing on the big screen. And people drank this

701
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: in as much as they did the books.

702
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,819
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it outshined the first live-action movie that

703
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,900
Speaker 2: it was paired with in theaters, The Ugly Dachshund, starring

704
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: Suzanne Plachette and Dean Jones. It looked like a stink bomb.

705
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: I think I saw that, actually.

706
00:36:02,620 --> 00:36:05,820
Speaker 2: Did you really? It's basically like a giant dog that

707
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: is playing with dachshunds and thinks it's a dachshund for

708
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: like an hour and a half. I saw that. It

709
00:36:11,219 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: just looked awful. Plus, there's something about Dean Jones I've

710
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,620
Speaker 2: never put my finger on, but I don't know. I

711
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: don't know. I just don't see him as a family

712
00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:22,049
Speaker 2: film kind of guy, even though that's mainly what he

713
00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:22,430
Speaker 2: was in.

714
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:25,669
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. I wonder if there's a Subway Jared story

715
00:36:25,690 --> 00:36:26,190
Speaker 1: in there somewhere.

716
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:28,450
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe not that far, but I could

717
00:36:28,510 --> 00:36:32,970
Speaker 2: see him shouting at the child actors in between takes

718
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:35,010
Speaker 2: about how terrible they're doing.

719
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:37,850
Speaker 1: I love you've created this scenario.

720
00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:38,830
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

721
00:36:39,390 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: Poor guy.

722
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: So as far as the Disney movies go and the featurettes,

723
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:47,020
Speaker 3: It was like an all star team from Disney from

724
00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:47,540
Speaker 3: the beginning.

725
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: It was directed.

726
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: The originals were directed by Woolly Reitherman, who was one

727
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,860
Speaker 3: of the legendary nine old men.

728
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,219
Speaker 1: Of Disney who were these nine dudes.

729
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: That's the name Walt Disney gave them, who were who

730
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,180
Speaker 3: kind of like all those early kind of up through

731
00:37:03,219 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: like the late 70s. Even I think one of them

732
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: even worked until the mid 80s. All those early animated

733
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,620
Speaker 3: movies were these nine dudes kind of running the show.

734
00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:15,339
Speaker 3: And then they had an all-star cast voicing these things too, right?

735
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: Not like these days all-star cast when it's like Patton

736
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,580
Speaker 3: Oswalt and Maya Rudolph, like back in the day when

737
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,340
Speaker 3: they were animated voice stars.

738
00:37:24,580 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, Sterling Holloway, he's a great example. He was Ka,

739
00:37:28,219 --> 00:37:31,339
Speaker 2: the serpent in the Jungle Book. He played the stork

740
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:36,010
Speaker 2: in Dumbo, who I think he's like drunk and accidentally

741
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:40,260
Speaker 2: delivers Dumbo somewhere else, right? Yeah. you would just totally

742
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,860
Speaker 2: recognize his voice and probably his face, too, because he

743
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,620
Speaker 2: was in a lot of like live action movies, too.

744
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,250
Speaker 2: But he played Winnie the Pooh. And I can't hear

745
00:37:50,290 --> 00:37:52,490
Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh as any other voice but his.

746
00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:56,290
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Barbara Letty did the lady voice for Lady

747
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:56,830
Speaker 1: and the Tramp.

748
00:37:56,890 --> 00:38:02,290
Speaker 3: She was Kanga. Clint Howard, of course, famed actor. And

749
00:38:02,410 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: I hate to have to say this, but he is

750
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: Ron Howard's brother.

751
00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure he gets tired of that designation, though.

752
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: I would think so. I've heard he's actually a really

753
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,469
Speaker 2: cool dude. Yeah, he is. And kind of easygoing. So

754
00:38:13,489 --> 00:38:16,610
Speaker 2: he probably doesn't let on that it bothers him. He

755
00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:19,710
Speaker 2: was also the star of the terrible, terrible movie, The

756
00:38:19,830 --> 00:38:23,779
Speaker 2: Ice Cream Man, which Riff Trax does. And it's so bad,

757
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: I can't even watch Riff Trax to it.

758
00:38:25,620 --> 00:38:25,860
Speaker 1: Oh, no.

759
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: But get this, my brother-in-law is producing a remake of

760
00:38:30,180 --> 00:38:32,390
Speaker 2: The Ice Cream Man. No way. So I'm kind of

761
00:38:32,430 --> 00:38:35,630
Speaker 2: excited to see that, yes. I don't know if Mila's

762
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:38,129
Speaker 2: in it or not, but I know my brother-in-law's producing, co-producing.

763
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:38,930
Speaker 1: Oh, she's got to be, right?

764
00:38:40,030 --> 00:38:42,730
Speaker 2: Hopefully, she'll at least have some sort of walk-on, you know,

765
00:38:42,750 --> 00:38:45,870
Speaker 2: where she like spikes the camera and waves in the background.

766
00:38:46,450 --> 00:38:46,850
Speaker 2: One of those.

767
00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:47,770
Speaker 1: That'd be great.

768
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:51,820
Speaker 3: So Clint Howard was Rue. Buddy Baker was the composer.

769
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,549
Speaker 3: He did the Mickey Mouse Club theme. You know, the

770
00:38:55,590 --> 00:38:57,790
Speaker 3: legendary animators of the early days of Disney were all

771
00:38:57,810 --> 00:39:00,290
Speaker 3: put on this, of course. And they just started kind

772
00:39:00,310 --> 00:39:02,509
Speaker 3: of pumping these things out one after the other in

773
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: the late 60s, you know, through the mid 70s and beyond.

774
00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:10,660
Speaker 2: Yes. And I mean, when you say pumping them out,

775
00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: I feel like we should also accompany that with like

776
00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:18,569
Speaker 2: these were also like Oscar winning shorts, too. Yeah. It

777
00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:21,420
Speaker 2: really started getting pumped out in, like, the 90s with

778
00:39:21,460 --> 00:39:23,420
Speaker 2: a lot of, like, direct-to-DVD stuff.

779
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,540
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,589
Speaker 2: These were still very much, like, cared for and, like,

781
00:39:28,750 --> 00:39:31,219
Speaker 2: they were a big deal when... they were produced. You

782
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: know what I mean?

783
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't seem like, hey, how can we print

784
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,820
Speaker 1: more money next?

785
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,270
Speaker 2: Exactly. That started in the 80s and 90s.

786
00:39:40,590 --> 00:39:43,069
Speaker 3: So now I think we should finish up a little

787
00:39:43,110 --> 00:39:46,850
Speaker 3: bit with this thing that's happened with Winnie the Pooh

788
00:39:46,930 --> 00:39:49,770
Speaker 3: over the years, which is it is a wonderful children's

789
00:39:50,690 --> 00:39:54,149
Speaker 3: story or set of stories and films and everything. But

790
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:57,450
Speaker 3: it has always or very soon after, I feel like

791
00:39:57,510 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: branched out as like being kind of co-opted, but not

792
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: in a bad way as like, hey, there's a lot

793
00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:08,819
Speaker 3: more to Winnie the Pooh than meets the eye. And

794
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:13,629
Speaker 3: we're talking like religion, mental health, philosophy, and as we'll see,

795
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:14,910
Speaker 3: even political resistance.

796
00:40:15,630 --> 00:40:17,410
Speaker 2: How do you feel about Winnie the Pooh getting that

797
00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:18,110
Speaker 2: kind of treatment?

798
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: Oh.

799
00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:21,989
Speaker 2: Or being used in that manner. That's what I should say.

800
00:40:22,489 --> 00:40:23,509
Speaker 1: I don't mind it.

801
00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:24,109
Speaker 3: Okay.

802
00:40:24,450 --> 00:40:24,870
Speaker 1: What about you?

803
00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:28,069
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think it totally like disrupts the

804
00:40:28,110 --> 00:40:32,110
Speaker 3: purity of it because it's people sort of like saying, hey,

805
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:34,819
Speaker 3: there's a lot of like life philosophies you can draw

806
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,060
Speaker 3: from each of these characters' distinct point of view. Sure.

807
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,299
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that even if

808
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:45,070
Speaker 2: it stunk across the board, somehow it still wouldn't spoil

809
00:40:45,210 --> 00:40:47,860
Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh completely. As Winnie the Pooh. You know

810
00:40:47,890 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: what I'm saying?

811
00:40:48,489 --> 00:40:48,660
Speaker 1: Yeah.

812
00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:51,029
Speaker 2: And I think that's also evidence, Chuck, by the fact

813
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:56,330
Speaker 2: that the original books, the original stories coexist alongside the

814
00:40:56,410 --> 00:40:59,489
Speaker 2: Disney-fied version. Yeah. Like one of the things Disney is

815
00:40:59,530 --> 00:41:02,779
Speaker 2: just known for is taking the original. And redoing it

816
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: in such a way that it has to consume the

817
00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: original and basically wipe it out of existence to produce

818
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 2: the Disney-fied version.

819
00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

820
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,299
Speaker 2: Like AI companies scanning old books and destroying them, right? Yeah.

821
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: It's essentially what Disney did. Winnie the Pooh survived that.

822
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: And that's really notable and noteworthy. And that says a

823
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 2: lot about Winnie the Pooh, too, I think.

824
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,750
Speaker 1: Yeah. Winnie shall not be denied his place. No.

825
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:33,819
Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh will take his place by force if

826
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,900
Speaker 2: you don't give it to him.

827
00:41:35,140 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: That's right. Well, we should mention that movie at the end. Oh, okay.

828
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: So I mentioned philosophy at first.

829
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 3: There was a book in 1995 called Pooh and the

830
00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:52,330
Speaker 3: Philosophers where all of the characters are sort of written

831
00:41:52,370 --> 00:41:54,390
Speaker 3: about as embodying.

832
00:41:55,410 --> 00:42:00,230
Speaker 1: All the famous philosophers, Plato, Kant, Descartes. Pooh was Nietzsche. Mm-hmm.

833
00:42:00,870 --> 00:42:04,750
Speaker 3: And then that followed. Actually, that was 1995. But earlier

834
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:08,130
Speaker 3: than that, and I remember this in the 80s, the Tao.

835
00:42:07,950 --> 00:42:08,410
Speaker 1: Of Pu in 1982.

836
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:11,100
Speaker 3: And how do you pronounce that?

837
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:11,620
Speaker 2: The day?

838
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: The day of piglet?

839
00:42:14,340 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: So Tao is the way or the path of day

840
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,540
Speaker 2: is virtue. Okay.

841
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 3: So that was 82 and 92. And that looks at

842
00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: the characters, obviously, through the lens of Taoism.

843
00:42:24,070 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: Might be D.

844
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. But yeah, so Poo, actually, that one

845
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: really works. And that's probably by far the most celebrated

846
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:37,100
Speaker 2: adaptation of Winnie the Pooh. Because the point of the

847
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: Tao of Poo is that Poo is a perfect example

848
00:42:40,739 --> 00:42:45,650
Speaker 2: of the goal of Taoism, which is wu-wei, which is

849
00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:48,630
Speaker 2: not doing. And that doesn't mean just sit around not

850
00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:51,590
Speaker 2: doing anything. It means like you go with the flow

851
00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:54,190
Speaker 2: of nature rather than trying to oppose it to bend

852
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:57,500
Speaker 2: it to your will. And that's perfectly embodied by Pooh,

853
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,180
Speaker 2: who just kind of happily goes along and, you know,

854
00:43:01,219 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 2: completely rebounds from obstacles and problems and just moves a

855
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,940
Speaker 2: different direction, essentially.

856
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:13,420
Speaker 3: Yeah. They've also been like mental illness treatment and self-help

857
00:43:13,540 --> 00:43:14,260
Speaker 3: books and things.

858
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: They have been assigned.

859
00:43:17,570 --> 00:43:19,780
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it seems sort of obvious that maybe

860
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,250
Speaker 3: Eeyore is depressed or maybe Piglet has anxiety.

861
00:43:23,250 --> 00:43:24,730
Speaker 1: Tigger, they say, has ADHD.

862
00:43:25,969 --> 00:43:28,010
Speaker 3: And again, it's sort of, you know, this one feels

863
00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:31,270
Speaker 3: a little more gross to me, but if it's helping people,

864
00:43:31,330 --> 00:43:32,190
Speaker 3: then that's fine.

865
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:36,330
Speaker 2: I wonder, though, if it is, you know, maybe. I

866
00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:39,049
Speaker 2: could see Tigger with ADHD like helping a kid with

867
00:43:39,110 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: ADHD feel better.

868
00:43:40,340 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: I think that's probably what they use it for, don't

869
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: you think?

870
00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:45,419
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think they use it for think

871
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:47,980
Speaker 2: pieces that can be really annoying. Yeah.

872
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen a lot of shrinks over the

873
00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:50,940
Speaker 1: years and no one ever brought this up to me.

874
00:43:51,330 --> 00:43:54,350
Speaker 2: No, unless they're like, cheer up, Eeyore.

875
00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:55,509
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.

876
00:43:55,650 --> 00:43:57,190
Speaker 2: That's what my shrink always says to me.

877
00:43:58,610 --> 00:44:00,030
Speaker 3: And then we got to talk a little bit about

878
00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: the political resistance thing. So in 2017, there were some

879
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 3: satirical memes around about Chinese President Xi Jinping. And like, hey,

880
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: that's when he like depicting him as Winnie the Pooh.

881
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:14,790
Speaker 3: So it's China. So they were like, you know what?

882
00:44:15,390 --> 00:44:19,190
Speaker 3: We're going to kind of almost ban Winnie the Pooh, basically.

883
00:44:19,210 --> 00:44:23,900
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you cannot legally put a picture of Winnie

884
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: the Pooh and a picture of President Xi next to

885
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: one another. That's illegal in China now. And so, of course,

886
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,250
Speaker 2: South Park got wind of this and dedicated a whole

887
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:36,570
Speaker 2: episode to, you know, skewering China over it. And I

888
00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: think they kill Winnie the Pooh in it.

889
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:38,549
Speaker 3: Yeah.

890
00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:42,750
Speaker 2: So China outlawed South Park, which is surprising to me

891
00:44:43,050 --> 00:44:45,770
Speaker 2: that that is when they outlawed South Park. It seems

892
00:44:45,790 --> 00:44:47,989
Speaker 2: like they would have outlawed South Park back in the aught,

893
00:44:48,110 --> 00:44:48,410
Speaker 2: you know?

894
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:49,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, for real.

895
00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:53,070
Speaker 2: This is 2019. And then the Taiwanese Air Force kind

896
00:44:53,110 --> 00:44:55,299
Speaker 2: of took that and ran with it. And they have

897
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:57,900
Speaker 2: a patch. Some of the pilots have a patch of

898
00:44:57,940 --> 00:45:01,060
Speaker 2: a Formosan black bear, which is a native to Taiwan,

899
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: punching Winnie the Pooh in the face.

900
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:03,299
Speaker 1: Yeah.

901
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:05,730
Speaker 2: And I don't like the concept of Winnie the Pooh

902
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:07,730
Speaker 2: being punched in the face, but it is a pretty

903
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:10,450
Speaker 2: funny looking patch, I have to say. Yeah.

904
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:12,420
Speaker 3: And then, you know, the movie we referenced that we

905
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,899
Speaker 3: were going to mention, I had seen this trailer before

906
00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 3: when it came out. I guess the idea is that

907
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 3: Winnie the Pooh eventually entered the public domain, which means

908
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,340
Speaker 3: people are going to do awful things.

909
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:23,530
Speaker 1: What was the name of the movie?

910
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,030
Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh, colon, Blood and Honey. Yeah.

911
00:45:27,090 --> 00:45:29,989
Speaker 1: So it plays Winnie the Pooh as like a murderous bear.

912
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, who after Christopher Robin left them and never came back,

913
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: they went feral. But they also are able to use

914
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,300
Speaker 2: axes and handguns and stuff like that. So it's a

915
00:45:41,340 --> 00:45:45,260
Speaker 2: slasher flick with Winnie the Pooh and friends exacting revenge

916
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: on Christopher Robin and his friends. And it's live action,

917
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,690
Speaker 2: which makes it even more bizarre.

918
00:45:49,710 --> 00:45:53,430
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Pooh looks pretty good. You know, the

919
00:45:53,469 --> 00:45:54,330
Speaker 1: character they created.

920
00:45:54,810 --> 00:45:56,850
Speaker 3: I remember when that came out and reading about the

921
00:45:56,890 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: news about the public domain or whatever. And.

922
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,460
Speaker 3: I don't think it's supposed to be very good, but

923
00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:04,259
Speaker 3: I'd still like to see some of it, I guess.

924
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,140
Speaker 2: Me too. Me too. The coolest adaptation I saw is

925
00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:10,620
Speaker 2: called The Call of Puthulu. And it is, I think,

926
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,910
Speaker 2: a dozen different authors, horror authors, writing Winnie the Pooh stories,

927
00:46:14,989 --> 00:46:19,250
Speaker 2: but then weird like Cthulhu mythos stuff like from Lovecraft

928
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:22,850
Speaker 2: is woven in. And it sounds awesome. So it's coming

929
00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:24,110
Speaker 2: to my house on Monday.

930
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Oh, cool. I love it.

931
00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:27,339
Speaker 2: Can't wait.

932
00:46:27,460 --> 00:46:30,529
Speaker 3: The, you know, Pooh is as big as ever. I

933
00:46:30,590 --> 00:46:33,390
Speaker 3: believe it's never been out of print, The House on

934
00:46:33,410 --> 00:46:36,190
Speaker 3: Pooh Corner at least. These stories are available in more

935
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:39,430
Speaker 3: than 50 languages, have sold more than 50 copies around

936
00:46:39,450 --> 00:46:39,910
Speaker 3: the world.

937
00:46:40,770 --> 00:46:41,850
Speaker 1: This is a little fun fact.

938
00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: The Latin language version in 1958 is the only Latin

939
00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:50,459
Speaker 3: language book to ever make the New York Times bestseller list, which.

940
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,620
Speaker 2: Is pretty cool. Yeah, for sure. And you can actually

941
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,930
Speaker 2: go to the setting of the 100-acre wood house. um,

942
00:46:58,330 --> 00:47:01,450
Speaker 2: Ashdown forest, which is basically, I don't want to say

943
00:47:01,489 --> 00:47:04,370
Speaker 2: it's been converted into the hundred acre wood, but there's

944
00:47:04,410 --> 00:47:07,330
Speaker 2: definitely poo related stuff all over the place. And for

945
00:47:07,350 --> 00:47:09,649
Speaker 2: good reason, I mean, like if you're going to go there,

946
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:12,219
Speaker 2: you kind of want to see the stuff that originally

947
00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:15,700
Speaker 2: inspired this. So there's the poo sticks bridge, which is

948
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,900
Speaker 2: where the game of poo sticks, where you drop us, uh,

949
00:47:18,340 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: each person drops a stick in the water, and then

950
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 2: you run to the other side of the bridge to

951
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: see who stick passes under the bridge fast, uh, fastest.

952
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,189
Speaker 2: And that's the winner. There was an original bridge from,

953
00:47:30,090 --> 00:47:32,090
Speaker 2: I don't know when it was, but they rebuilt it,

954
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:35,510
Speaker 2: but true to its original form. So that's still there.

955
00:47:35,530 --> 00:47:38,180
Speaker 2: I think Eeyore's house is there. There's a bunch of

956
00:47:38,219 --> 00:47:39,180
Speaker 2: cool stuff to do.

957
00:47:39,739 --> 00:47:40,819
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet there's a gift shop.

958
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,660
Speaker 2: There definitely is. It's called Pooh Corner. And not only

959
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,740
Speaker 2: can you buy gifts there, you can also buy coffee

960
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,380
Speaker 2: and maybe even have tea, like a high tea there.

961
00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:52,180
Speaker 3: Oh.

962
00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: I would guess. I'm surmising, but I'll bet I'm right.

963
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:57,739
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds fun. I mentioned, you know, the New

964
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 3: York Public Library. They've been there, the little original stuffy

965
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 3: since 1987, except for Rue, which apparently was left behind

966
00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: in an apple orchard, I guess, by Christopher Robin. And

967
00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: just this year, just a few months ago, in fact,

968
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:17,330
Speaker 3: in April, Queen Camilla gifted the library an exact replica

969
00:48:17,370 --> 00:48:20,230
Speaker 3: of that original stuffy. And I believe that one's there.

970
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:22,190
Speaker 3: So I did not see that one because I went

971
00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:23,069
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago.

972
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: Well, you need to go back. Yeah.

973
00:48:26,420 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: See that recreation? Yep.

974
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:32,149
Speaker 2: If you want to be reminded of your humanity every

975
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:34,950
Speaker 2: once in a while, just go read the last chapter

976
00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:37,690
Speaker 2: of The House of Pooh Corner. It's the second of

977
00:48:37,770 --> 00:48:41,500
Speaker 2: the only two actual Winnie the Pooh story collections that A.A.

978
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: Milne wrote. And Christopher Robin is essentially saying goodbye without

979
00:48:46,660 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: saying goodbye because he started to grow up and now

980
00:48:49,060 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: he has to go to school and he can't just

981
00:48:51,180 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: do nothing all day. And he's trying to explain it

982
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 2: to Pooh and Pooh's not really catching on, but they

983
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,310
Speaker 2: managed to kind of communicate in their own way in

984
00:49:00,330 --> 00:49:03,770
Speaker 2: the end. And it is really touching. Like, just go

985
00:49:03,870 --> 00:49:05,390
Speaker 2: read it now. Yeah.

986
00:49:05,550 --> 00:49:06,510
Speaker 1: And bring the Kleenex.

987
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:07,710
Speaker 2: It's so great.

988
00:49:08,270 --> 00:49:09,190
Speaker 1: Yeah.

989
00:49:09,330 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: It's cute, too. So, Chuck, I say that's it for

990
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,430
Speaker 2: Winnie the Pooh for now, okay? Yeah.

991
00:49:16,210 --> 00:49:17,049
Speaker 1: I'm sad to leave him behind.

992
00:49:17,410 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we have to. We have to go to school.

993
00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Winnie the Pooh,

994
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,740
Speaker 2: go read the last chapter on the House of Pooh Corner.

995
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: It's a great place to start. And in the meantime,

996
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,770
Speaker 2: we're going to do listener mail.

997
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:34,739
Speaker 3: You know what just happened? You said it's time to

998
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,940
Speaker 3: go to school. And that was such a sweet sentiment.

999
00:49:37,060 --> 00:49:39,820
Speaker 3: But for some reason, immediately in my brain, I pictured

1000
00:49:39,860 --> 00:49:42,219
Speaker 3: you and I on a school bus and like me

1001
00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:45,500
Speaker 3: shooting spitballs and you with a pocket knife, like carving

1002
00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:46,859
Speaker 3: something in the seat in front of you.

1003
00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:51,149
Speaker 2: Wow. All right. All right. I'll go that way. Just

1004
00:49:51,190 --> 00:49:52,149
Speaker 2: for just for a day.

1005
00:49:52,469 --> 00:49:55,549
Speaker 1: It's just what popped into my head. All right. Listener mail.

1006
00:49:55,570 --> 00:49:59,150
Speaker 1: This is a very sad one. So just warning to everybody.

1007
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:59,730
Speaker 2: Thanks for that.

1008
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,899
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm writing and listening from Chile. Last year,

1009
00:50:02,940 --> 00:50:03,900
Speaker 1: my wife passed away at.

1010
00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:08,410
Speaker 3: Only 29 years of age after battling a rare kind

1011
00:50:08,430 --> 00:50:11,390
Speaker 3: of cancer, NUT carcinoma.

1012
00:50:12,110 --> 00:50:13,850
Speaker 1: Maybe it can inspire an episode, guys.

1013
00:50:13,890 --> 00:50:15,990
Speaker 3: But through this battle, we often escaped to my mother-in-law's

1014
00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:18,210
Speaker 3: house on the beach to find some peace and quiet.

1015
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:20,030
Speaker 3: And it was our tradition to listen to two episodes

1016
00:50:20,070 --> 00:50:22,250
Speaker 3: of Stuff You Should Know because the two-hour drive on

1017
00:50:22,290 --> 00:50:23,990
Speaker 3: our way there and then two more on our way back.

1018
00:50:24,820 --> 00:50:26,779
Speaker 3: Slowly but steadily, you guys became an important part of

1019
00:50:26,820 --> 00:50:28,820
Speaker 3: our travels and brought us knowledge, joy, and laughter.

1020
00:50:29,489 --> 00:50:30,570
Speaker 1: On many grim occasions.

1021
00:50:30,610 --> 00:50:33,149
Speaker 3: And this week I came back to that coast after

1022
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:34,830
Speaker 3: almost a year of not being able to do so

1023
00:50:34,890 --> 00:50:37,190
Speaker 3: because of the memories. And when I did, the first

1024
00:50:37,210 --> 00:50:39,710
Speaker 3: thing I did was put on the podcast and have

1025
00:50:39,730 --> 00:50:42,989
Speaker 3: you guys come along. It would mean, sorry, I'm getting

1026
00:50:43,010 --> 00:50:43,910
Speaker 3: emotional here.

1027
00:50:44,010 --> 00:50:47,430
Speaker 2: That is so sweet. So Chuck, you just beeped because

1028
00:50:47,469 --> 00:50:49,029
Speaker 2: you cleared your throat. And I was like, is Chuck

1029
00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:52,210
Speaker 2: getting choked up? And yes, you are. That is amazingly sweet.

1030
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:53,690
Speaker 1: I know I'd have a hard time with this one.

1031
00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:56,750
Speaker 3: Guys, it would mean the world to me if you

1032
00:50:56,770 --> 00:51:00,259
Speaker 3: could dedicate an episode in the memory of Jacinta. who

1033
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 3: especially loved and laughed at Josh's laugh. Keep up the

1034
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,540
Speaker 3: good work and may you come with me to many

1035
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,910
Speaker 3: more trips. And that is from Lucas. And I told

1036
00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:11,589
Speaker 3: Lucas it was going to be in this episode and

1037
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:15,930
Speaker 3: there was a cancer episode coming out soon, but I'd

1038
00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:17,009
Speaker 3: rather tag it with this one.

1039
00:51:17,570 --> 00:51:19,970
Speaker 1: And this one's dedicated to Jacinta.

1040
00:51:20,430 --> 00:51:23,589
Speaker 2: Good idea, Chuck. That was perfect. Thank you for that.

1041
00:51:24,190 --> 00:51:26,670
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, Lucas, for listening to us all

1042
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:29,730
Speaker 2: this time and for letting us know. the little role

1043
00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:32,690
Speaker 2: we played in your life and Jacinta's life. So thank you.

1044
00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:35,770
Speaker 2: I don't know what else to say, Chuck. That was

1045
00:51:35,810 --> 00:51:39,589
Speaker 2: just great. If you want to make Chuck and I

1046
00:51:39,969 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 2: quiet at the end of an episode, take your best shot.

1047
00:51:43,739 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 2: You can send it off via email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

1048
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1049
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts,

1050
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:00,670
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.