WEBVTT - Secretary with Ashley Ray 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.680 Hi everyone. Before the episode starts, we just wanted to 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.200 do some quick content warnings. We want to be better 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.680 about doing those moving forward, so just to let you know. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:14.400 In the discussion we talk about self harm as well 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.800 as physical and sexual assault. And now here's the episode. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.759 On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.400 women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:31.240 husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.479 start changing it with the beck Del cast. Jamie, do 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:37.440 you want to start this one? No? I don't know 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.920 what to say. Okay, me either. Oh here's something okay right? 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.559 Oh oh Jamie, I hate the way you're you sniffle. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:53.280 You're always sniffling. Okay, let's have sex. Wow. Welcome to 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:59.800 the bed Time and iconic intro that passed the vessels 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:09.760 it did, um well, but welcome anyways. That's literally just 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.480 something that happens in the movie. That was a that 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.240 was just that was This is a re enacting a 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:23.559 dramatic reenactment. Sniff, Um, so today's movie. Okay, wait where 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.600 are we? This is the backtel cast. Welcome, Um, my 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.200 name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus and 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.520 this is a podcast about the representation of women in 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.839 movies as well as just an overall examination of film 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:43.240 through an intersectional feminist lens. We use the Backtel test 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.760 as a jumping off point for a discussion, that being 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.400 a media matric invented by queer cartoonist Allison back Dol, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.080 sometimes called the back Doll Wallace test that requires that 0:01:55.280 --> 0:02:00.280 to female identifying or or non male genders, characters with 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.800 names talk to each other about something other than a man, 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.920 such as just now when you heard uh, the I sniffed, 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:11.040 and then Caitlin and I mutually decided to have sex. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.480 That actually is more than we did, more than with them. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:19.000 We actually gave consent. There was Yes, there was consent 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.160 discussed almost instinctually, like that's just like what one would 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.359 do it right, not to tune our real consent heads. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:32.200 I love consent. So today's movie is Secretary, and we 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.720 have a guest who we are very excited about. She 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:40.600 is amazing writer comedian Ashley Ray. I'm so happy to 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:45.680 be here. I'm so excited to talk about this movie specifically. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.080 I gosh, there's so much to talk about, so much, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.440 uh This movie has meant so much to me, and 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.720 I haven't watched it in a long time, but watching 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.840 it again it just reaffirmed how much it it just 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.440 imprinted on me as a child. Did you see it 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.639 when it first came out, like what's your full hit? Yeah? Yeah, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.480 it came out in two thousand, that is when I 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:13.200 was like ten years old. But I got a laptop 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.640 when I was like twelve. I went to this school 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.080 where they gave everyone a laptop in sixth grade, which 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.040 is a stupid thing to do. And I would just 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.440 like make live journal accounts and download movies, like there 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.600 were live journal account where people would just like share 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.520 indie movies and that's how I would like watch like 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:36.000 French lesbian films. And then someone put up Secretary and 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.400 I remember the day being like that poster it's like 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.200 iconic with like the stockings and her bent over, and 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.680 I was like, this is something I've got to see, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.480 and I downloaded it on my laptop and I I 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.000 just remember watching it with headphones and being like I 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:57.240 cannot let my mom know this is happening. So that's like, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.240 that's that age when you're like figuring out weird inks. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.280 I feel like or at least like you know. Yeah, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.560 and I now realized probably percent of my canks were 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.160 inspired by this movie, which is bad, probably horrible. The 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:17.520 point is that it happened exactly. I wonder. I mean, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.120 I feel like I would be such a different person 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:23.120 if I had access to a laptop at twelve years old. Yeah. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.040 I don't know why anyone thought that was a good idea. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:30.440 My school still does it to this day. All sixth graders, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.359 you get a laptop, you get to keep it until 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.400 you graduate. I watched so I watched like Pink, Flamingos 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.760 and just horrible movies at a really young age. Oh 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.760 my god. And this is this is probably why I 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:43.680 came out as like Queer and Polly. By the time 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:45.640 I was seventeen, I was like, been there, done it. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.159 I've seen it. James Spader showed me how Uh Now, 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:54.000 it's just unlearning. It's a lot of unlearning, all the damage, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:59.679 all the movies due to us as young people. Wow, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.279 I didn't own a laptop until I was well into 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:08.960 my twenties, so I didn't get one to college. That 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.400 seems like a healthy age. Those seems those are healthy ages. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.880 like by then you're just like, oh, porn is such 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.400 an exciting luxury. It becomes a luxury thing because you 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.919 don't have to watch it on a desktop anymore. But 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.719 then that kind of comes all the way around, and 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.119 then later in your life you're like, I can watch 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.240 you know, once you live on your own, you can 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.400 watch porn on a desktop again, big screen, and then 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.279 it's a different kind of luxury. Yeah, exactly, Jamie. What 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.240 about you? What's your relationship with this movie. I've never 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.839 seen this movie. I've known about it for a long time, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:42.760 and I have a feeling that if I had seen 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.040 it when I was in like middle school, high school, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.360 I would have really really loved it and it would 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.120 have had like a real effect on me. But I didn't. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.440 I don't know, I just missed it, and I started 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.280 hearing more about it. I think it was like when 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.559 the fifty shape Its movies were coming up, this movie 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.440 was coming up over and over and over. It is like, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.960 this is the alternative. If you think fifties shade sucks, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.520 you just gotta go back and watch Secretary. So that 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.479 was kind of like where I would That was like 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.599 my point of entry because we've covered fifty shades on 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.839 this show, and in retrospect, I'm not I'm not totally. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.080 I'm like the I see what people are saying, but like, 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.200 maybe they should have. Really, it's definitely a better written movie. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:31.520 Well so every movie is a better written movie. And 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.800 it's definitely very a very well acted movie too. But 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.559 then but on the relationship level, I was like, I don't, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.560 I don't quite see it. I'm excited to talk about it. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.919 He's like the original Mr Gray, like they even have 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.240 the same name. Yeah, this was the watch where I 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.640 was like, oh my mind blown, wow, wow, connecting the pieces. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.640 It embarrassingly took me until sevent into the movie to 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.040 be like, oh my gosh, a Mr. Pray for an 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.320 hour and a half. I've heard this before. I've seen 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.080 this before, but this time it's with Maggie Jellenhall, and 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.560 I'm like, I mean, I also like dakode to Johnson, 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.440 but it's just she wasn't set up for success in 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.480 that franchise. She was not anyways, Okay, what's your what's 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.720 your heads story with this movie? Um, I didn't see 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.400 it right away because it came out in two To write, um, 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.560 I probably didn't see it until I I think I 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.120 saw it when I was working as an assistant. I've 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.760 talked about this job before on the podcast because it 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.880 traumatized me. I was working as an assistant to a 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.800 literary manager in New York who was extremely verbally and 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:44.200 emotionally abusive to me and I I guess I was 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:49.520 just like watching media in which other people are verbally 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.600 and emotionally abused by their boss. I guess, just to 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.800 relate or have something to relate to. I'm not sure exactly. UM. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.680 I didn't connect very much with the movie at that point, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:06.680 and then UM rewatching it. There's a lot I struggled with. UM. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.960 I tried to because I worked as a secretary every 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.000 summer for like four summers at the Comptroller's office, and 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.920 I was like the assistant comptroller secretary, and it was 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.000 it was I couldn't I mean, just based on my 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.720 own experience, I couldn't plug myself in because I was 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.680 like I just me and Scott. This just didn't exist 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.840 with us. I was a church secretary from like eighth 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.160 grade throughout high school. I wasn't like religious, but they 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:35.880 paid me ten dollars an hour. It was just a 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.560 really good gig and it was Yeah, it was hard, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.120 you know, as it was hard to to see myself 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.679 in that role necessarily, but I did understand a lot 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.080 of her duties as as a secretary. I did have 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.840 to use a typewriter. I related to that too. Well, 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.839 you got the full typewriter treatment. Yeah. They it was 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.120 a pretty old church and they were just like, this 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.679 is how we do baptism certificates. Get used to it, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:04.680 classy like. Um, So anyway, yeah, I, um, I don't 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.839 like this movie. I'll just come out and say it. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.880 But but I yeah, I don't. I don't have any 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.640 of the attachment to it or any of like the 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.440 nostalgia or anything. So I was coming in it with 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:19.920 pretty fresh eyes. Um. But there's a lot to discuss. Yeah, 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.360 there is, so there's so much to talk. I mean, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.480 it's I I guess like I was kind of assuming. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.440 I was like, oh, this is like probably one of 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.560 those like cut and dry deals where it's like, well 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.920 it was like written by men about women, and so 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.560 you know, there's just gonna be uh, it's kind of 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.319 a nonstarter to an extent in most cases, but this 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.719 is not the case for this movie. It's there's so 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.520 many there's so many layers. It was really interesting researching 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.240 like the two female writers that like shaped this story 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:55.880 very differently, including the screenwriter who's like really fixated on 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:01.679 like women with mental illness and punishing them but being like, 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.400 but it was good for her, Like she's she's got 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.079 a whole it's such a hyper specific vibe. But when 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.840 I was looking at her list of works, I'm like, whoa, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.560 that is really the theme. Yeah, it's it's this weird 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.000 thing where the character she is she's dealing with mental illness. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.120 She's she's fresh out of an institution in a hospital, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.920 but they also treat her like this newborn baby like 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.640 in a pool, who like knows nothing and it's so 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.920 naive and it's just like, oh my god, what is 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.120 a man? And then she's just like a perfect baby 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.240 for James Spader to just like imprint on. But at 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.960 the same time they're like, well, no, see, she's just 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.400 like so brilliant and complex because she has mental illness 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.040 and she could just like understand him, and it just 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.360 like wants to have it both ways. And it's like, way, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.520 does she this like innocent child who knows nothing or 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.360 is she this like super genius like person who can 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.880 read his mind? Like what what is she supposed to be? 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.320 They pick and choose, and I feel like that actually, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.920 when I was younger, that those types of characters were 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.280 so appealing to me because they were like parts of me, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.160 Like when you're a twelve or thirteen, like you want 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.719 to be perceived kind of in both of those ways, like, 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.280 and so making an adult character that way is a 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.760 choice that is going to appeal to that Is she 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:25.320 an adult? Because look at her? Is she an adult? 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:31.280 Is like black Swan's like she's like stickers everywhere? Like 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.400 what age is she? If someone told me she was 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.600 like eighteen, I'd be like I could see it, Like 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.600 what what age is she? It's really confusing. I wasn't 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.120 sure if it was supposed to be like she is 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.839 maybe like yeah, like a really young adult and maybe 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.520 she just has her like kid room and she's fresh 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.240 out of high school, or if they were like going 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.600 for a Black Swan kind of thing where they're like, no, 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.120 she's definitely too old for this, but we're just going 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.880 to trap her here to send to say something. But 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.760 I wasn't sure what idea The closest thing to any 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.880 kind of indication is when she's talking to Peter, who 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.680 she knew in high school, who she like ends up 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.040 dating for a little while and then being engaged to. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.080 But she's like, you're so different from how you were 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.040 in high school, and it seems like about how long 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.920 ago was that? But how long a you don't know. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.240 Also she has she's in the bathtub at one point 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.040 and she like has this very like childlike snow globe 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.920 that apparently is like part of her like and then 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.040 she's like, no, I'm over this snow glob and then 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:43.960 she throws it away. I'm pretty sure there's like a 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.079 rubber ducky in there. Like just so much of that 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.680 made it uncomfortable. And it's like if they had just 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.760 firmly kind of like aged her up, like have her 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.600 just once referred to dropping out of college or something, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.439 I feel like it would have the dynamic a little better. 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.960 But this whole first part of the movie, you're like, Okay, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.280 so she she is a child who's jealous of her 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.320 sister's wedding, Like right there was like there, I feel 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.160 like they wanted you to look at her as a 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.320 baby to some But but if that's true, then it 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.400 kind of makes the whole thing a little more sinister. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.560 There were a few of those moments that where it 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.440 was like, again, I was like, if I saw this 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.480 when I was thirteen, I would have been like, holy 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.720 sh it, Like just like symbolism moments when she takes 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.760 the snow globe and she's like the snow glow. Yeah, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.480 that that one got me. That was the moment when 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.080 I was I was like, yeah, that girl, when she 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.480 threw that snow globe, I was like, I'm in, I'm in, 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.120 this is me, this is my lifestyle now. It's I mean, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.440 and and I will say watching it now, I did 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.120 hate it. I saw every problem, but I also did 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.160 see this way where I was like thirteen or you 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.320 know whatever, and I was like, oh my god, of 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.880 course I thought this was the sexiest thing in the world, 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.400 like him just telling her what to eat for dinner 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.960 and how of course I'd be like, oh my god, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.440 that's so hot that that someone would like take the 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.960 time and care to do that. You know. I I 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.840 was a latch key kid. I had to feed myself, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.720 so that obviously super hot to me. And it's just 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.800 you know, the I feel like it just sexualizes things 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.280 in this kind of non sexy way where you're like, Okay, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.280 I guess I can work with this, even though I'm 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.280 still really not clear on who this woman is or 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.120 what exactly she wants or why she has decided this 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.040 lifestyle speaks to her. There's a lot to latch onto 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.600 with Lee, which is like part of I don't know 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.040 it was. I was so in and out because it's like, yeah, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.520 that not watching it now, the problems are very clear. 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:43.960 But it also it's like it's very like of its 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.200 time in a lot of ways, and I don't know 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:53.280 what about that yet. That masturbation scene very early two thousands. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.840 This like this like just visually trippy, like as all 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.400 girls know, the way we masturbate as we like vision 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.760 of flower opening and we're sitting in the middle of it, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.520 and then the boy that we have a crush on 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:11.320 appears and like washes our hair. Of course that's how 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:17.600 girls masterbace. It's very MTV two visuals, just like fireworks, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.640 weird like green screen stuff happening. But then again I 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.680 was just like, okay, so she's like fourteen years old. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.480 Like that was another thing where you're like, okay, she's 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.080 a baby. She's I think she's probably legally an adult, 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.200 but either way, the the age gap between her and 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:37.360 Mr Gray is pretty substantial. And that's the other. That's another. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.640 This is a I hate James Spader. I hate him 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.600 so much that words cannot describe how much I think 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.920 he is the worst. Yeah. I don't know how he gets. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.080 I just I hate him so much. But anyway, that's 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.560 neither here nor there. If it was, I've heard he 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:58.000 is a very like, not nice person. Yeah, oh, I thought, 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.880 do you just dislike him as a performer. I just 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.320 hate him because I hate him as an actor. I 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.600 think I just the roles he tends, at least of 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.480 the ones I've seen that he's in. I find him 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.360 loaths some like he's in that movie Crash, like the 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.520 horny car Crash movie. I found him really creepy in 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.760 that movie. I found him really creepy and sex lives 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.320 and videotape like everything he's in. And then this movie, 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.040 like everything he's in that I've seen, I just I 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.480 find him really I feel like this is his last 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.320 like hot movie. This is the last time we saw 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.840 like a hot James Spader, So maybe so maybe we 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:39.040 celebrate it for that sure, and only that that's so long. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.160 He's like, I gotta go be an Avengers age of Ultron. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:48.600 Now the black List. He had a show called like 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.000 the Blacklist, right, it ran for like ten years or 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.160 something like, He's been on so many things for ten 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.760 years that I didn't know existed. He well, he was 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.480 on the Office to right like after people Stop California. 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.760 Oh that's a good name. Yeah, he was on Boston Legal. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.679 My mom watched the hat the My mom love Boston Legal. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.400 He gets a lot of work, and I just don't 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.320 know why I don't. I don't get it. Not here 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.480 for James Spader. I think he's still kind of like 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.359 writing that like his first wave of success because he 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.640 was in so many like he was the sexy guy 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.760 in so many movies and now he's just kind of 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.560 set for life or that that's my guess, Secretary. Yeah, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.600 it's an ode to sexiness. Yeah, Like I feel like 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.960 you're it enriches the experience if you knew, like because 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.280 if I just saw James Spader, I'm like, that's the guy. Like, 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.960 but because you know, like he has this icon like 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.000 sex icon status, which I don't get it just to 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.159 be Mr Gray, Like, at no point in the movie 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:56.400 is he an interesting or charismatic character. Like She's just like, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.159 he's so complex, I can see why he's hurting. And 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.880 then James, it just looks like constipated and he's then 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:04.919 he's just like I gotta go just knock out some 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.359 push ups. And that's him the entire movie. It's just 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.360 like he's running on a treadmill. Yeah, I gotta take 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.520 care of my or kids. So like, where's your personality, bro? Yeah, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:19.719 oh yeah, he's like vagina symbol in his office and 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.720 then you have to watch. You know, he's a good 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.720 guy because he can handle the vagina flowers and not 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.800 everybody can do that feminist icon. Yes, they like kind 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.800 of set this thing up in the beginning where like 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.400 it seems like he has a domp. There's like this 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.840 ex woman who comes in and like stomps all over 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.000 his stuff and I was like, oh good, I'm gonna 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.720 love it if like he gets it handed to him. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.679 But then in the end she's like, no, he is 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.879 a genius and he slipped through my fingers and I 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.199 just wish I had been as smart as you Lee 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.080 to capture him. And it's like wait, so wait, you 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.520 were like so angry and came into his office because 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.919 this guy, who we've literally never heard say anything smart, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.960 is just so brilliant that you, like you just had 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.200 to storm down there to yell at him to sign 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:09.520 divorce papers. What. Yeah, because it's a he's like he's 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.800 a genius at what at lawyer? He doesn't even seem 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.840 like a good lawyer by the way, ever, all the 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.560 case notes we heard, Yeah, there's like one time where 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.200 he's just like, I told you to send the notes 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.080 on the case house and it just sounds like something 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.320 like like a writer was like, this is how lawyers talk. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:30.960 We'll just have him say it through the door. Just 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:32.880 he can add live Spader will phill it in. Don't 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.160 even worry. He knows he was on Boston Legal. There. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:40.600 The thing I will say about I mean, there's a 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.520 lot of things to say about James Spader, but I 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.560 was stroke. Maybe it's like my TV, but I had 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.000 to turn up the volume and turn down the volume 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.080 so much watching this movie because he speaks like in 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.760 a whisper of the whole kept like cranking my Roku 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.439 to eighty and then like slamming it back down. It 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.240 was so hard to hear him. That was a question 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.439 I actually was going to ask, does it count as 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.920 passing the backdel test if you can't hear the man 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:11.119 just if you if he's just whispering, technically doesn't count. 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.159 Is Maggie John Hall just talking towards herself? Like right, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.440 because he'll be like piss all the way step into 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.199 my office. It's so quiet. There are pivotal scenes I 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.119 had to watch like three or four times because like, 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.960 I just I can't hear him, my rocos at a hundred, 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.840 I can't hear him. There's so just I think, all 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.520 the scenes where he's supposed to be. And it's interesting 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.520 because you know, I think it would be better if 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.320 we saw Lee actually consent to a lot of this 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.080 or like approach it with any sort of like passion 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.280 or excitement, like oh you know, but we really just 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:45.639 see her like headphones on, like listening to one tape 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.399 about being a sub, like being a dom. But most 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.639 of it is just James Spader's character being like you 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.000 do this, you sniffle too much, and I think you 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.639 need to stop touching your hair. And he's just projecting 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:01.120 all of these things onto her and it's just so uncomfortable, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.359 and it's like, if you would have just given some 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.959 of that agency to Lee's character, it would have been 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.480 a little better, because his character just isn't interesting enough 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.600 to carry it. And the whole time he's just like, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.639 I think you'd be happier if you just kept your 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.440 shoes on under your desk, and then we're supposed to 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.720 be like, holy sh it. He totally gets this girl's 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.639 self esteem and what she needs. Yeah, she broke the 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.240 snug glow. Well, before we get too far into it, 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.320 let's do the recap and then we'll and then we'll 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.639 really just let loose. Well, we'll loosen up as she 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.280 is told she needs to do by Mr Gray. Listen up, 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:45.840 we'll we'll drink a hot chocolate because she's not old 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:50.600 enough to have an adult beverage. Okay, Um, Actually, let's 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.320 take a quick break and then we'll come right back 0:21:52.359 --> 0:22:01.560 and do the recap. So the movie is we open 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.520 on Lee Holloway. That's Maggie Gyllenhall's character. We see her 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.840 doing you know, some office assistant type work. You know, 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.720 there's there's papers, they're stapling, she's getting coffee. But while 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.080 she's doing all this, she's wearing this kind of bondage 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:20.119 device that suspends and outstretches her arms to either side. 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.560 This is an iconic intro scene. I feel like it'll 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.040 be remembered throughout her career. It is really cool as 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:31.280 a scene visually. Yeah, Like really put looks you into 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.399 the world because it does it. I mean, it's not 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:37.320 until the midpoint of the movie, hello screenwriting degree that 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.639 they enter into any sort of like dom sub relationships, 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:43.439