Speaker 1: Hi, Brian, Hey Katie, Hi, everyone out there listening. Gosh,
Speaker 1: I'd say the state of the Union is shaky still.
Speaker 1: Just over a week after this election, I just got
Speaker 1: finished interviewing Richard Cohen. Brian, remember we had him on.
Speaker 1: He is head of the Southern Poverty Law Center, talking
Speaker 1: about the rise and hate speech and incidents across the
Speaker 1: country since election day. He said there had been three
Speaker 1: hundred at this point, uh, anti gay, anti black, anti women,
Speaker 1: anti Jew, anti Muslim incidents. We're definitely seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of turmoil across the country. You know, on the left,
Speaker 1: there have been mass protests in big blue cities like
Speaker 1: New York, Chicago and l a um Online anonymous users
Speaker 1: have risen on Twitter to sort of condemn both sides.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a very angry time in the country.
Speaker 1: That's something we really want to start with. As we
Speaker 1: introduced today's guest, Larry Wilmore. Many people know Larry from
Speaker 1: The Nightly Show. He replaced Stephen Colbert when Steven replaced
Speaker 1: David Letterman. Oh, of course you probably remember him from
Speaker 1: The Daily Show as well. But he's been behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of a number of very iconic shows through the
Speaker 1: years and We can't wait to hear about that as well.
Speaker 1: Larry Wilmore, it's so nice to see you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming my pleasure, Katie, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. First. Larry, we want to talk to you
Speaker 1: about our good friend Gwen Eiffel. We got some terrible
Speaker 1: news just really moments ago, and you were looking at
Speaker 1: your phone and asking me about it when I walked
Speaker 1: in to the building, and in fact, it was about
Speaker 1: Gwen Eiffel passing away, which is so shocking. I had
Speaker 1: known that she was sick and had been going through
Speaker 1: treatment for cancer, but I did not obviously have any
Speaker 1: idea that she was this ill. And UM, tell me
Speaker 1: about your experience with when well, it's funny. UM, I
Speaker 1: was always a big fan of hers. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: one of those Uh, I'm one of the people who
Speaker 1: is in your demo. I love news, you know, and
Speaker 1: I've loved since I was a kid, and and I
Speaker 1: love the fact that Amazon PBS and you know, and
Speaker 1: she was one of the faces of PBS. She was
Speaker 1: so gracious, so intelligent, you know, and the things that
Speaker 1: she had to say. Um, so I'm just kind of
Speaker 1: devastated right now. It just kind of hit me at
Speaker 1: just all at once, you know she. Um. I've gotten
Speaker 1: to know Gwen through the years, just covering various things,
Speaker 1: and she was quite involved in the Aspen Ideas festivals
Speaker 1: and was such an incredible presence. She was strong and
Speaker 1: reasonable and fair minded and calm. Gwen has just been
Speaker 1: such a steady force and an unbelievably kind, carrying, sweet person.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's just crushing, Brian. Did you know Gwen
Speaker 1: at all? I did. Actually, I first met her as
Speaker 1: a nerdy politics geek at the Institute of Politics at Harvard,
Speaker 1: where she was pretty involved. Um. I was obviously a
Speaker 1: huge admirer of her work. We stayed in touch a
Speaker 1: little over the years, and in fact I saw her
Speaker 1: this summer at one of the conventions and she gave
Speaker 1: me a big hug and said why did they allow
Speaker 1: you in here? And was very sweet and teased me,
Speaker 1: and um. She was also a great kind of utility
Speaker 1: player in journalism. You know she was, if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: she was a writer for the New York Times before
Speaker 1: she was before she went to television, and and excelled
Speaker 1: at at both, which is a rare and hard thing
Speaker 1: to do. Um. I think she was a universally respected
Speaker 1: figure and a universally liked figure. Um, so it's this
Speaker 1: is a really uh sad loss for journalism in the country. Yeah. Well, Um,
Speaker 1: our thoughts and prayers are with her family and all
Speaker 1: our colleagues at PBS, and uh, you know, I think
Speaker 1: we can only feel grateful for the contributions that she made. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's move on to something more cheerful or not, Larry. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's been a it's been a very um gosh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, strange and unsettling week in American life.
Speaker 1: And I think the division is so raw and I
Speaker 1: think more palpable than ever in the aftermath of this
Speaker 1: campaign and in the election of Donald Trump is our
Speaker 1: next president. Um, let's go back to election night. Were
Speaker 1: you shocked? What did you think going into the evening? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely was shocked. Um. You know, I kind of watched
Speaker 1: election I kind of like a sporting event, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it as two sides going against each other,
Speaker 1: because it's really there's really a third side. I Mean,
Speaker 1: there was a chance of Ross Barrow doing something in
Speaker 1: ninety two, but that was the last time anybody really
Speaker 1: might do something interesting, you know, So I, like everyone
Speaker 1: was interested to see how close Trump would make it.
Speaker 1: That's how much I believe that, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a faith to complete that Hillary would be the next president,
Speaker 1: you know. Um And watching Florida, I was like very
Speaker 1: fascinated by the returns in Florida. It's something that John
Speaker 1: kings and In does well, is he really goes into
Speaker 1: all the counties and how the ratings are coming through
Speaker 1: the countings with his magic board. I always make fun
Speaker 1: of that magic board because CNN always stays, you know,
Speaker 1: cable entertainment news, you know, see end, That's what I
Speaker 1: call it. But but I'm so happy he had that
Speaker 1: magic wall because you really you can really in real
Speaker 1: time understand what's going on. And in real time you
Speaker 1: could see how those counties were overwhelmingly coming out, those
Speaker 1: red counties for Trump. When that happened, I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: anything can happen tonight. Anything. So Florida was your big
Speaker 1: key that all bets were off. Yes, And I was
Speaker 1: going around all the networks and just watching reactions and
Speaker 1: Fox News Funny, they started off really sad. It was
Speaker 1: kind of interesting, and the other networks it was kind
Speaker 1: of this it was almost a smugness, especially when you
Speaker 1: look at it now. You know, to your point, Larry,
Speaker 1: Florida really was the canary in the coal melt mine,
Speaker 1: and it was a microcosm of how the election unfolded
Speaker 1: in so many ways across the country. You had Hillary
Speaker 1: doing what she was supposed to do in the democratic
Speaker 1: parts of the state, maybe turnout was a little off
Speaker 1: of where Obama was four years ago, but in more
Speaker 1: rural parts of Florida, where she was expected to lose
Speaker 1: by twenty points, she was losing by thirty and thirty
Speaker 1: five points, and with enormous turnout among Trump supporters. And
Speaker 1: so that was shocking for a lot of us who
Speaker 1: just smuggly assumed, based on the data that she was
Speaker 1: going to prevail. Yes, Hillary hadn't countant on white being
Speaker 1: the new black. She had that, and that's what it
Speaker 1: showed us. I mean, I remember Browerick County. They were
Speaker 1: waiting on it, and you thought, this gush of you know,
Speaker 1: black votes is it going to come in? And they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's it, and I'm like, that's it. It's okay, alright, Florida, Well,
Speaker 1: why you know, gosh, there's so much to unpack here. Um,
Speaker 1: when was the moment that you all felt like party over,
Speaker 1: game over, Mike drop, it's over. Pennsylvania was the one
Speaker 1: for me because that's been untouchable for so long. You
Speaker 1: know what about for you, Brian, when was that moment
Speaker 1: you thought it's that it's over. Well, for me, it
Speaker 1: was one it looked likely that she would lose Miss Chigan.
Speaker 1: That was truly shocking because Michigan last went for a
Speaker 1: Republican in when George H. W. Bush was running. And
Speaker 1: is it true that Wisconsin had not voted Republican since
Speaker 1: ur Yes, So that was a real shocker thirty two
Speaker 1: years since Wisconsin supported a Republican for president. That was
Speaker 1: during Ronald Reagan's forty nine state sweep. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: sort of the white working class voters. You know, someone
Speaker 1: was talking to me yesterday and saying, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't realize how patronizing and superior it sounds to always
Speaker 1: refer to this voting block as non college educated, blue
Speaker 1: collar working class, etcetera. That that sort of in and
Speaker 1: of itself sets up this US against them mentality of
Speaker 1: the quote unquote more educated Americans, white collar workers, and
Speaker 1: and pits these two groups against each other. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think of that? I thought that was an
Speaker 1: interesting observation. Yeah, it is interesting, I think that. I
Speaker 1: think for me, I feel like the left has had
Speaker 1: kind of the moral high ground on on the social issues,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately it may have given them a smugness on
Speaker 1: economic issues, you know, in kind of a false sense
Speaker 1: of being right on all the issues, you know, and
Speaker 1: so I think they forgot about what, you know, in
Speaker 1: the nineties were called the Clintons. They were the Abubba
Speaker 1: Democrats and the Bubba vote, you know, that were so
Speaker 1: loyal to Bill Clinton. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people forgot about those Republicans as well. I think had
Speaker 1: forgotten about a lot of them because they were so
Speaker 1: interested and on the religious side of the of the issues,
Speaker 1: you know, especially with the borsho and some of those issues,
Speaker 1: and so both sides were so interested in the cultural side.
Speaker 1: It was Bernie Sanders and ironically Trump who talked about
Speaker 1: these issues in ways that really connected with people. You know,
Speaker 1: I had said to Briant through the course of this campaign,
Speaker 1: why is in Hillary Clinton talking more about income inequality?
Speaker 1: Why isn't she talking more about jobs, about the loss
Speaker 1: of manufacturing jobs largely through automation. As we've reminded our
Speaker 1: listeners here many times, it seems like like such a
Speaker 1: duh captain obvious thing to say, why why didn't she
Speaker 1: do that? In your view, I don't know, Brian, do
Speaker 1: you have any views on that? Well? Bill Clinton was
Speaker 1: sort of dismissed with a condescending pat on the head
Speaker 1: and said, well, you know that that was then, this
Speaker 1: is now. Yeah, the future of the Democratic Party is
Speaker 1: this coalition of the ascendant young people, college educated whites,
Speaker 1: uh and minorities. And in fact, depending on how you
Speaker 1: calculated about of the electorate is still white working class people.
Speaker 1: And it just seed that group and lose by thirty
Speaker 1: or forty points in some places, makes it very very
Speaker 1: hard to win for a Democrat. At a candidate, you
Speaker 1: basically have to run the table everywhere else. Now, Clinton
Speaker 1: strategists will tell you that the economic argument was sort
Speaker 1: of at the core of her message, that in every
Speaker 1: speech she said an economy that works for everyone, not
Speaker 1: just those at the top um. But what but what
Speaker 1: got media attention was just the conflict with with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: And so you have a lot of people outside the
Speaker 1: campaign who said, you know, they should have done a
Speaker 1: lot more. They should have they should have visited some
Speaker 1: of these places. Hillary Clinton wasn't even in Wisconsin for
Speaker 1: seven months before election day. And of course within the
Speaker 1: Clinton campaign, their view was, you know, we reached them
Speaker 1: through advertising, through other events, and the press didn't cover
Speaker 1: her policy ideas and speeches. They just covered us when
Speaker 1: we bashed Donald Trump. To me, that my biggest frustration
Speaker 1: with Hillary Clinton, who I supported and voted for, was
Speaker 1: was the empathy quotient. It didn't feel like she had
Speaker 1: that empathy part of the equation, you know, whereas Trump,
Speaker 1: if you look at his rallies, people were there excited
Speaker 1: because they felt they were heard finally that somebody heard
Speaker 1: them and someone was listening. And whether or not you
Speaker 1: grew with the message, that connection is very powerful. And
Speaker 1: if you just look at their message itself, just a
Speaker 1: simple message, Trump, make America great again? Right, Very aspirational,
Speaker 1: very inspirational for people that believe that it's an idea. Hillary,
Speaker 1: I'm with her, are Stronger together. Yeah, it's more esoteric.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask you, Larry. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: interesting to me as we kind of pick through these
Speaker 1: exit polls because they're really kind of a reflection, uh
Speaker 1: even a rough one of of where the American people are.
Speaker 1: And they showed that a majority of voters approved of
Speaker 1: President Obama's job performance, they opposed some of Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: key policy ideas like the wall and mass deportations, and
Speaker 1: and they viewed Hillary Clinton more favorably than Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So why do you think, um, even though he lost
Speaker 1: the popular Trump was able to prevail on this election. UM.
Speaker 1: I do feel that many times we get the president
Speaker 1: we deserve, not the president we underneed. And I feel
Speaker 1: a lot of the electorate is more superficial than people
Speaker 1: give them credit for. And that's not always a bad thing.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it works out well. But I think the toughest
Speaker 1: hurdle the Clintons were always going to face is coming
Speaker 1: back to the neighborhood. You know, they're already out of
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. You're coming back. You wait, you're moving back
Speaker 1: into this house. We know you already. There's nothing new.
Speaker 1: America likes a new family, you know they as I mean,
Speaker 1: President Obama said this in twelve He said, Americans like
Speaker 1: that new car smell. That's what he when he was
Speaker 1: worried about losing around. But He's right. People do like that.
Speaker 1: They they they like getting to know the new family
Speaker 1: in the White House. They already know about the Clintons.
Speaker 1: One of the toughest hurdles that they had to overcome
Speaker 1: was familiarity. Yes, we know that breeds contempt, you know.
Speaker 1: So you know, if you just look at cult of personality,
Speaker 1: we're also in a very narcissistic you know, reality show age.
Speaker 1: And boy, there's no other better example of that than
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. That's the world that we kind of live in.
Speaker 1: And Trump wrote a lot of different waves into the
Speaker 1: White House, not just one. And the thing about Obama,
Speaker 1: I think more people approve of Obama than approve of
Speaker 1: his record as president. I think there's a distinction there.
Speaker 1: I think more people view him favorably as Barack Obama,
Speaker 1: you know, singing al Green and you know, and being
Speaker 1: he has an amazing personality, much like Reagan. But if
Speaker 1: you look at his job performance, I think those numbers
Speaker 1: are lower in terms of people being satisfied with with
Speaker 1: the actual job that's happened over the past seage. Also,
Speaker 1: I think if you look at right track, run track,
Speaker 1: Brian and I talked about that and he said these
Speaker 1: numbers really don't facilate that much. Having said that, I
Speaker 1: think if you just look at some of the things
Speaker 1: that are barometers of how people are doing. You look
Speaker 1: at heroin addiction, you look at suicide, you look at unemployment,
Speaker 1: and all those things are disproportionately affecting white men fifty
Speaker 1: and over. And I think the chickens came home to
Speaker 1: roost in this election where suddenly they said, this is
Speaker 1: someone who listens to us and cares about our issues
Speaker 1: in a way that no other candidate really seemed to.
Speaker 1: And so you can understand why they said, we're going
Speaker 1: to make our situations and known and our presence felt
Speaker 1: in this campaign. Yeah, and it is significant that he
Speaker 1: didn't just beat Hillary Clinton, he beat the Republican establishment
Speaker 1: as well. I mean Trump did beat both sides. You know,
Speaker 1: he was more of an independent candidate running as a Republican.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that black and Latino voters didn't
Speaker 1: weren't more enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton. I always predicted there
Speaker 1: was going to be this enthusiasm gap. You just have
Speaker 1: to look at the rallies. Right. Well, I believe it's
Speaker 1: a false comparison. I think, um, you can't compare Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton to Barack Obama, who is an historical candidate. You know,
Speaker 1: we've never had a candidate like that. So there were
Speaker 1: those numbers for Obama You're not going to see for
Speaker 1: anyone else. I guess I was saying an enthusiasm gap
Speaker 1: between Donald Trump's supporters and Hillary clinton supporters. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, So that to me is about her messaging.
Speaker 1: I think it's very clinical, it's very antiseptic. There's nothing
Speaker 1: inspiring for certain groups to come out and vote for something.
Speaker 1: They were being more choral to vote against something, and
Speaker 1: cynical campaigns. To me, I call that a cynical campaign
Speaker 1: when you're voting against something, UM, to me, are always
Speaker 1: harder to win them positive campaigns, you know, I also
Speaker 1: think that. I mean again, I'm not a campaign expert
Speaker 1: or a political strategist by any stretch, but I've covered
Speaker 1: enough elections to know that her campaign to me, seemed
Speaker 1: exceedingly cautious, careful and controlled. Um. She didn't get out
Speaker 1: in front of the pressure. You know, she is actually
Speaker 1: a very engaging, warm, funny person because I've covered her
Speaker 1: since the early nineties when she was first Lady. But
Speaker 1: I think there was such a fear of getting her
Speaker 1: out there, and I think as a result, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: sucked all the oxygen out of the room. And you
Speaker 1: never actually felt like you knew her as a person.
Speaker 1: She seemed, as you said, an aseptic. And the fact
Speaker 1: of the matter is anyone who's spent any time with her,
Speaker 1: or knows her a little bit, or has had a
Speaker 1: conversation with her, or seeing her in an unguarded moment,
Speaker 1: she really isn't like that. You look at her two
Speaker 1: most effective times as candidate, once in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: when she cried in New Hampshire or whatever that was
Speaker 1: she let to her guards, I'll call it, and her
Speaker 1: concession speech. For this, to me, she was she was
Speaker 1: more revealed as a person rather than presented as a candidate.
Speaker 1: And it's well said, yes, And the thing that Hillary
Speaker 1: did not do enough of, in my mind, was revealed
Speaker 1: herself as a person, because there were so many things
Speaker 1: that were said about her, and you know how how
Speaker 1: the media can make up who we think someone is.
Speaker 1: You know, all I could think of was they were
Speaker 1: so concerned about a misstep and that getting focused on
Speaker 1: and blown out of proportion that they didn't allow her
Speaker 1: to be herself. Well, we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 1: Here some messages from our sponsors and from you all,
Speaker 1: and we're going to have more with Larry Wilmore, the Man,
Speaker 1: the Legend. Right after this last week we asked you
Speaker 1: all for your greatest hopes and fears for a Trump presidency.
Speaker 1: You left us so many great voicemails, and here's the sampling. Hi, Katie,
Speaker 1: my name is Ellie. I'm calling from Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to respond said, what is your biggest
Speaker 1: hope or biggest share a boy tru president? But one
Speaker 1: of my biggest hopes is that he'll turn me that
Speaker 1: he will turn the kind year round and we'll see
Speaker 1: more jobs coming back to America. We'll see more economic growth,
Speaker 1: and we will see general prosperity. One of my biggest fears. Um, well,
Speaker 1: I have to tell you I have a lot of
Speaker 1: friends in the LGBT community and I'm afraid that him,
Speaker 1: our Governor Pence, might roll back the lgbt Q right
Speaker 1: and I really really don't want to do that. If
Speaker 1: they don't have a lot of times are going to
Speaker 1: be affected by that. Have a going thinks. Hi, this
Speaker 1: is Peggy, my hope for the Trump presidency is that
Speaker 1: he will prove to be a moderate someone who will
Speaker 1: focus on infrastructure and improvements like that. My greatest fear
Speaker 1: is that he will be an insane autocrat. Thanks Hi Brian, Hi,
Speaker 1: Katie Um. My biggest hope for the Trump presidency is
Speaker 1: that he's able to comprehend the awesome responsibility he has
Speaker 1: been handed and that he is somehow able to transform
Speaker 1: himself into a person that can now inspire in the country.
Speaker 1: I'm willing, like a lot of people, I think, to
Speaker 1: give him a chance. So my biggest fear is that
Speaker 1: he will continue to be petty and vindictive and dragging
Speaker 1: us all into a world of conspiracies and corruption, sort
Speaker 1: of like the House of Cards. Uh. Hi Katie, Hi,
Speaker 1: Brian Um. My name is Kate. I am in Michigan.
Speaker 1: I think my biggest hope is that people don't forget
Speaker 1: the feelings they feel right now following the election, but
Speaker 1: they stay hungry, they stay motivated, um, and they stay involved.
Speaker 1: My biggest fear is that young people like my generation
Speaker 1: will stop being involved, that they'll feel like they don't
Speaker 1: have a role or a voice. Thanks guys for our
Speaker 1: next listener question. We'd love to hear from some of
Speaker 1: our Republican listeners. We know you're out there. What do
Speaker 1: you think is the future of the GOP. We want
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts about Donald Trump, about the party itself,
Speaker 1: about the establishment wing of the party, about this new
Speaker 1: kind of GOP ushered in by this era of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So leave us a message at nine to nine, two
Speaker 1: to four, four, six, three seven, Brian will be there
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Speaker 1: Larry Wilmore. Gosh, you know enough about Hillary Clinton and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Let's talk about you, Larry. So you you're You're.
Speaker 1: You became very well known on the Daily Show, and
Speaker 1: then you started hosting your own show on Comedy Central.
Speaker 1: How did you get into comedy, Larry? How do you
Speaker 1: get into comedy? I always tell people I'm one of
Speaker 1: those people. I didn't really get into comedy. I kind
Speaker 1: of went into show biz. I could get comedy out
Speaker 1: of me, you know. Yeah, I was lucky. There's a
Speaker 1: thing called showbiz, right, do that? I mean, if I
Speaker 1: worked at a bank, I'd still be telling jokes. I
Speaker 1: just wouldn't be getting paid for it and probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: last that long, you know. So I've always looked at
Speaker 1: showbiz as a way to comedy is kind of my expression.
Speaker 1: So whether I'm writing or producing or performing, you know,
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, I'm getting that comic expression out.
Speaker 1: So you But so you worked on all these shows.
Speaker 1: I know you worked on the Fresh principle there. Did
Speaker 1: you know my friend Andy Borrowitz? You know, I have
Speaker 1: funny story about Andy Boris. I love Andy Borrowitz, great guy.
Speaker 1: Here's this very interesting and Andy so my very first gig,
Speaker 1: as you will, one of my first gigs. This is
Speaker 1: in the early eighties. I was on the Facts of
Speaker 1: Life and I was a cop for a couple of episodes.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's so bizarre. Uh. And my
Speaker 1: name was Officer Zakus. Okay, so you were a Greek Greek.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of brothers the acus Is
Speaker 1: out there that people don't give enough credit for. So
Speaker 1: the person who wrote that episode was Andy Borrowitz. I
Speaker 1: didn't know this. Years later, I was serving on the
Speaker 1: Border Directors I think of the Writer's Guild at the time,
Speaker 1: and somebody mentioned Zakus. I think, I go Zakus. That
Speaker 1: was the name of a character. So really, that's a
Speaker 1: friend of mine, a friend of yours, and this star
Speaker 1: all started on raveling that this was a friend of
Speaker 1: Andy Borrowitz, who somehow like he knew Andy bros. And
Speaker 1: somehow we got him on the phone and I talked
Speaker 1: to Zakus or something like that, and it was this
Speaker 1: weird connection that was made. And I got to meet
Speaker 1: Andy after that and we talked about it. But when
Speaker 1: I worked on Fresh Prints, he was already gone. He
Speaker 1: was gone because he create. Didn't he create the Fresh Prince?
Speaker 1: He and Susan created a Fresh Prince along with that.
Speaker 1: Think Benny Medina who I think it was based on
Speaker 1: something like that. And you also worked on Living Color?
Speaker 1: Is it in Living Color? And Color is the band? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was in Living Color, which is another show I loved.
Speaker 1: I have such a crush on the way and brothers.
Speaker 1: They're still around about I like, I think it's um Damon.
Speaker 1: Damon is know he's on leath the weapon right now.
Speaker 1: I think that's the one. They're all kind of the
Speaker 1: tall skinning. So the Wayne's family, they're the first ones
Speaker 1: to experiment with cloning. They're the first ones to do
Speaker 1: it successfully actually, and they just put different names on its,
Speaker 1: same body, same jokes, you know, so did it? No?
Speaker 1: Well no, I did a couple of guest spots, but
Speaker 1: I was a stand up in an actor before that
Speaker 1: point and I realized that I wanted to get into
Speaker 1: writing and producing the kind of guide my own career,
Speaker 1: because you know, I just couldn't get the type of
Speaker 1: auditions that I went so. I had done like years
Speaker 1: of standard before that, and in Living Color was my
Speaker 1: first break as a writer. And it was such an
Speaker 1: amazing show. I mean, jim Carrey came out of there.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Fox won an oscar you know, j lost. She
Speaker 1: was a fly girl on that show. We're dating ourselves, Larry,
Speaker 1: I'm never dated any of the Flag girls, unfortunately, much
Speaker 1: to your dismaying so that that must have been so
Speaker 1: much fun to work on that show. Well, it was fun,
Speaker 1: but it was really tough too. I tell people it
Speaker 1: was the worst of times. It was the worst of
Speaker 1: times as a writer because you had to work till
Speaker 1: like five six in the morning. You're exhausted all the time.
Speaker 1: But you learned everything you wanted to learn about comedy
Speaker 1: writing on that job. And then you worked for the
Speaker 1: Bernie mac Show. Well, I created the Burn, actually created it.
Speaker 1: A writer's distinction there. Well, the first show I created
Speaker 1: was called The Pj's. It was a show with Eddie Murphy,
Speaker 1: was an animated show. And then after that I did
Speaker 1: the Bernie mac Show, and Bernie Maxwell kind of put
Speaker 1: me on the map as a as a creator of
Speaker 1: shows and that type of thing, and you know, we
Speaker 1: want a lot of awards. I want a Peabody Actually,
Speaker 1: m m, I know it's double mozzle on that. Then
Speaker 1: you ended up working on the Jon Stewart obviously on
Speaker 1: The Daily before that, now before that, actually tell me more.
Speaker 1: Actually ran Whoopi Goldberg Show in New York and you
Speaker 1: actually came by the set once and we actually were like, oh,
Speaker 1: my goodness, is Katie Kurt's coming by? Remember it was
Speaker 1: Whoopi Goldberg had a show for NBC back in two
Speaker 1: thousand three, So did you create that show? A friend
Speaker 1: of mine it, but I went in to run it.
Speaker 1: Um after that, I went to the office and helped
Speaker 1: launch that with Greg Daniels, and I was there for
Speaker 1: the first couple of seasons and I played a part
Speaker 1: called Mr. Brown. It was the Diversity Day episode. It
Speaker 1: was really funny. Steve Carroll's hilarious in there, and it's funny.
Speaker 1: Then I thought, well, now is the time to get
Speaker 1: back into performing. And it was then that the Daily
Speaker 1: Show came about and I went to do that, and
Speaker 1: you know, and the rest of history as they say,
Speaker 1: how much fun was it working on the Daily Show?
Speaker 1: It was so much fun. When I started, John Oliver
Speaker 1: had just started Assume Mombi, John Hodgeman, there was a
Speaker 1: whole mess of us who were just coming in and
Speaker 1: U It was fun because we were trying to figure
Speaker 1: out who we are and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I know, I was, you know, and it was it
Speaker 1: was really really a lot of fun. And how were
Speaker 1: they able to make it such a fun place to work? Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's funny. There's a book that's coming
Speaker 1: out right now about the Daily Show in the early days,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't always like happy, happy family. John John
Speaker 1: had He took a few years to really make that
Speaker 1: show his own. It was a different show before he
Speaker 1: came around, and and John really saw the way that
Speaker 1: he wanted to make it, and the people who were there, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think so we kind of do it like that.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of tension for a few years there,
Speaker 1: and as the personnel shifted and the show shifted, it
Speaker 1: kind of turned into what we know it is now.
Speaker 1: But that was kind of a birthing process that wasn't
Speaker 1: always fun for everyone. I guess, yeah. But but but
Speaker 1: towards the end, I mean, I guess or through the years.
Speaker 1: How long was the Daily Show even on? I should
Speaker 1: know this. I think was created in ninety I think
Speaker 1: it's been twenty one years. Craig Kilburne was on at
Speaker 1: the outset, and he was replaced by John Stewart, if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, So the Daily Show started at around
Speaker 1: the time of Fox Names in MSNBC. Ironically, when I
Speaker 1: meant to ask you, how do you think, if how
Speaker 1: do you think, if at all, this campaign would have
Speaker 1: been different had John Stewart still been in that chair.
Speaker 1: People love to think that that we actually can make
Speaker 1: a difference at the ballot box. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's true. I think John would probably would disagree with
Speaker 1: you vehemently that he would have made any difference at
Speaker 1: the ballot box, because if that were the case, you know,
Speaker 1: then all those mid terms would have turned out differently.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the nightly show, you know,
Speaker 1: tell me what that experience was like for you, Um,
Speaker 1: some of the pressures you felt. I did a daily
Speaker 1: syndicated talk show, so in some ways. I think I'm
Speaker 1: going to feel your pain, Larry, because we can only
Speaker 1: relate to each other. And it's really really hard, I think,
Speaker 1: to do uh super high quality daily show. And um,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. What were some of the challenges you found. Well,
Speaker 1: it was there was a lot of pressure from a
Speaker 1: lot of different way areas, which I really don't mind.
Speaker 1: I've worked under pressure for a long time and I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes I do my best work under there,
Speaker 1: but it is very difficult. And I had the pressure
Speaker 1: of following Stephen Colbert, who was very beloved in the
Speaker 1: time slot side time slot pressure, I had pressure of
Speaker 1: making a show that works, you know, which I don't care. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't care where you're at. That's pressure, right, And
Speaker 1: also the what was interesting about our show there were
Speaker 1: two components to it. There was a discussion component that
Speaker 1: takes a certain amount of preparation and in the beginning
Speaker 1: we have four guests on every night, which is crazy,
Speaker 1: and that takes preparation for that discussion, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: But before that, there was an edit comic editorial that
Speaker 1: also takes brain power every day. How are you going
Speaker 1: to distill your thoughts about what just happened every single day,
Speaker 1: having to write a funny column every day and study
Speaker 1: and know how you're going to relate and interact with
Speaker 1: all your guests. That's exactly right. So it's a lot
Speaker 1: of work, Lary, What the hell do you want to
Speaker 1: do that? I didn't know what it was. My head
Speaker 1: was ready to explode in the first three months. I
Speaker 1: really didn't know how it was going to continue. That
Speaker 1: it was just too much. And we had to pair
Speaker 1: the show down a bit where we would have a
Speaker 1: couple of our regulars and one guest and simplified a bit,
Speaker 1: and we we we had the show became more about
Speaker 1: the comedy and the that part of it unless about
Speaker 1: the discussion. But that happens more in the in the
Speaker 1: development of a show, you know. But I did enjoy
Speaker 1: doing both parts of those shows. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: You wish you could have done it weekly, And you know,
Speaker 1: like you look at John Oliver and you know he
Speaker 1: did a brilliant show. I give him ship all the time.
Speaker 1: Are you I worked so hard to do and now
Speaker 1: I'm up to But I bet if you had had
Speaker 1: that kind of pace for your show, um, you could
Speaker 1: have really probably taken these big issues. Had had a
Speaker 1: lot of fun with your comedy because the daily grind
Speaker 1: must have been the pits. It is tough, although I
Speaker 1: will say, you do get to comment on a lot
Speaker 1: of things you probably wouldn't be able to comment on otherwise.
Speaker 1: So they have a frustration that they don't get to
Speaker 1: comment on everything because once again now they're reduced to
Speaker 1: that twenty three minutes weekly, right, and they usually do
Speaker 1: a single topic exactly. So if you think about in
Speaker 1: a month, they've only weighed in on four separate things,
Speaker 1: whereas in a month I've done twenty shows, you know,
Speaker 1: or how long that month happens to be. So you know,
Speaker 1: you do get to weigh in on more things, you
Speaker 1: get to have more targets you can throw it, but
Speaker 1: then you still have to produce that too. So they're
Speaker 1: pros and co and I think also, you know, for
Speaker 1: people who watch regularly, they like sort of seeing you
Speaker 1: every night. People do it becomes a habit. I still
Speaker 1: get on Twitter people are still like, Larry, we miss
Speaker 1: you so much, And what they really miss is that
Speaker 1: they were watching us every night, right, you were habit
Speaker 1: for me, That's right there you go. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: like crack, Were you sorry? Were you sorry? It came
Speaker 1: to an end absolutely, of course, especially for everyone that
Speaker 1: worked there. But I'm a move on type of person
Speaker 1: in show biz because I have to, you know, and
Speaker 1: I've always I always get different ideas, you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm always working on different project. I have a project
Speaker 1: at HV right now. You know. Let's talk about your projects,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you're doing such cool things. And first
Speaker 1: of all, I love is Array. Oh she's so great.
Speaker 1: She was on my my talk show. She was kind
Speaker 1: of a a online presence, really funny and so yes, um,
Speaker 1: I kind of introduced her to the country. That's great,
Speaker 1: Thank you, residual check. I'm kiddy. But she's got a
Speaker 1: show on HBO called Insecure, and and are you the
Speaker 1: executive producer? Well, I co created it with her. I
Speaker 1: was in a transition period, just trying to figure things out. Uh,
Speaker 1: this is three years ago, and my managers asked me
Speaker 1: if I wanted to meet her. She had just tried
Speaker 1: to do something at ABC with Shonda and it didn't
Speaker 1: quite work out. But Issa had already done I called.
Speaker 1: I called, I'm sorry Issa. Yeah, so, but she had
Speaker 1: done Misadventures of an awkward black girl. She probably talked
Speaker 1: to you about, right, That's what she was. Yes, it
Speaker 1: was hilarious and I saw that and I thought, oh
Speaker 1: my god, who is this person? I thought, this is fantastic.
Speaker 1: I love the point of view, I love the style
Speaker 1: of it. And her acting though, was a revelation to
Speaker 1: me as someone who's produced for years. I thought the
Speaker 1: camera was really discovering her, you know, in a way
Speaker 1: that was revelatory. I love that about her, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to collaborate with her, and I
Speaker 1: was They asked if I wanted to supervise if I said, so,
Speaker 1: you want to just write together? She was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. And so so the two of you,
Speaker 1: do you write it together or yeah, you write it together.
Speaker 1: We don't write the series together. We we created the
Speaker 1: pilot together. So we created that together, and then the
Speaker 1: HBO process is kind of long, so there were several
Speaker 1: rewrites and they were kind of in a holding pattern,
Speaker 1: and I decided to go help launch Blackish at the
Speaker 1: time an ABC. So I worked with Kenya Bears and
Speaker 1: helped to launch that show, working on the pilot with him.
Speaker 1: You like Mr Starmaker, Lary, it seems like now, but
Speaker 1: it didn't work for me, you know. I mean, is
Speaker 1: there something which do you prefer or being in front
Speaker 1: of the camera, behind the camera, a little boat, a
Speaker 1: little bit of both. Um. I really enjoy the creative process,
Speaker 1: you know, and figuring it out, making it work. I
Speaker 1: love introducing, like the world to something is how I
Speaker 1: do it, and like introducing the world to Issa. I
Speaker 1: was so excited about that, you know. Or even when
Speaker 1: I did the Bernie actually I said, I can't wait
Speaker 1: for people to see Bernie and see him do this stuff.
Speaker 1: I was so excited about it. I'm always a little
Speaker 1: more shy about myself. I think I'm a little more
Speaker 1: gunshy about me kind of being out there, so I'm
Speaker 1: less interested in I call it hoggy, being hoggy, you know,
Speaker 1: me being in front of the camera and all that.
Speaker 1: I feel like I do it if it's what I
Speaker 1: need to do, but it's not the first thing that
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to do or have to do.
Speaker 1: But you're having fun right now. It sounds I'm having
Speaker 1: a lot of Are you doing stand up? Because you
Speaker 1: did some standard I did. I did it for years
Speaker 1: and years, you know, and uh, I did a couple
Speaker 1: of election specials in two thousand and twelve for Showtime
Speaker 1: called Larry. One was Racial Religion and Sex in Utah
Speaker 1: was the first one, and then Racial Religion Sex in Florida.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of a town hall in different
Speaker 1: parts of the country and I really enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1: And the first part was a little stand up eat
Speaker 1: and then discussion and that kind of thing. So well,
Speaker 1: that's a good segue to coming back to where we
Speaker 1: are as a country. Very um, I think we need
Speaker 1: one of those specials just about now. Well I may
Speaker 1: be doing some of that. Yeah, some of that again,
Speaker 1: So well, do you want in New York? Would you
Speaker 1: be on it? If I didn't know, I want to
Speaker 1: be on it. I just want to be in the audience.
Speaker 1: I'm not You don't understand. America has never fallen out
Speaker 1: of love with you. They still love you. What are
Speaker 1: you talking about? Shy? You're doing? You? Look at what
Speaker 1: is all these shy people? I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. America will never be I'm saying it
Speaker 1: right now. Well, I don't know. Call my agent learning
Speaker 1: we'll discuss it. But anyway, but but what are we
Speaker 1: going to do as a country. You know, here we've
Speaker 1: got Steve Bannon, who from bright Bart News as the
Speaker 1: chief strategist, and that's really upsetting to a lot of
Speaker 1: people because of the whole rise of the alt right
Speaker 1: and some of the incredibly inflammatory stuff that's been on
Speaker 1: bright Bart News. Um, you know, cheez how I don't
Speaker 1: even know. I don't even know where to begin. What
Speaker 1: is it about this election? I can't stop talking about
Speaker 1: it thinking about it. At some point? Am I going
Speaker 1: to move on? M not for a while? I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I don't think so. This is a big one.
Speaker 1: How can we I don't know, just sort of tamped
Speaker 1: down the anger and hate on both sides? I know
Speaker 1: I sound like Rodney King. Can't we all just get along?
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm just I'm I'm worried about the country. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm not as worried. But I also, once again my
Speaker 1: contrary nature, I'm not as concerned about people expressing their emotions.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just sort of a woos and I just
Speaker 1: start getting upset about it. I find it's okay to
Speaker 1: be upset, you know, and I think it's necessary for
Speaker 1: us to express those feelings. It's okay. But I think
Speaker 1: through our through people's outrage sometimes and look, the the
Speaker 1: people on the right who voted for Trump expressed their
Speaker 1: outrage in a certain way, and people have heard it,
Speaker 1: and now it must be dealt with. And so people
Speaker 1: need to express how they feel about something so it
Speaker 1: can be dealt with so we can do something about it.
Speaker 1: A move hunt and Larry, how much do you see
Speaker 1: those divisions breaking down along racial lines? I mean, I
Speaker 1: was really struck when Skip Gates, who's a you know,
Speaker 1: noted African American professor, said Trump represents a backlash against
Speaker 1: the progress black people have made since nineteen which of
Speaker 1: course was the year the Voting Rights Act. Van Jones
Speaker 1: on CNN said that Trump represents a white lash, a
Speaker 1: reaction against Obama and changing demographics by white people. Do
Speaker 1: you see it in that kind of star complain? I mean, look,
Speaker 1: in August of two thousand fifteen, I predicted that Trump
Speaker 1: would win to my staff and they all laughed at me,
Speaker 1: and we called our coverage of the blacklash beyond blackening
Speaker 1: was how we said it. You know that that there's
Speaker 1: an unblackening that's happening. And to me, I just wrote
Speaker 1: an article for the New Yorker about this, which people
Speaker 1: can be right now where I I called Trump um
Speaker 1: the birth of a nation, and uh, that was clever,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you very much. But I linked a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of his um de legitimization of the president
Speaker 1: back to that film and the fact that that film
Speaker 1: was legitimately screened in the White House like just a
Speaker 1: correct and said history was just written with lightning, you know.
Speaker 1: And and he he, the president of the United States,
Speaker 1: legitimized the de legitimization of the black male that happened
Speaker 1: in the White House. Trump trying to unamericanize Barack Obama
Speaker 1: to me is that same thing, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: make him de legitimate. And that's why Obama was very
Speaker 1: upset about it himself. You can see on his face
Speaker 1: when that stuff was happening. And he enjoyed the takedown
Speaker 1: of Trump at that White House Correspondence Center. You can
Speaker 1: see how much he enjoyed that, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think he enjoyed it a little too much, because I
Speaker 1: you know, you look at that video in two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: and you think was that the moment Donald Trump said yeah,
Speaker 1: well just you wait, and and a lot of people
Speaker 1: who know him and We discussed this on our last podcast.
Speaker 1: Thought that that speech really catalyzed this sense for him
Speaker 1: that he had to show not just Obama, but the
Speaker 1: whole establishment that mocked him. Well, the one thing, you know,
Speaker 1: you talked earlier in our conversation about messaging, and I
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump was incredibly effective at messaging, staying on message,
Speaker 1: being very discipline. It almost became a mantra, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was locker up, Crooked Hillary. I think there's
Speaker 1: a reason he had those hashtags, you know what it
Speaker 1: little more Marco and you know what did he say
Speaker 1: about Jeb Bush? You know, you know, and these things
Speaker 1: that he repeated again and again and again. Do you
Speaker 1: think sometimes it's because he is, you know, reflecting his
Speaker 1: own vulnerabilities, you know oftentimes I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: getting very shrinky here. No, but I'll tell you why
Speaker 1: I disagree with with that assessment, because he's right, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's not his thing. He was right about Jeb Bush.
Speaker 1: That's why Jeb was so upset about it. Little Marco
Speaker 1: did upset Marco Rubio. It did make him mad, you know,
Speaker 1: lying Ted did upset Ted Cruz. He really knew and
Speaker 1: knows how to get people under under. People's exactly right.
Speaker 1: And the one thing that buried Hillary more than anything
Speaker 1: else was cricket Hillary. And right before the election, FBI
Speaker 1: comes down and says, well, we're still looking into this up.
Speaker 1: He's right, cricket Hillary, and not because necessarily these labels
Speaker 1: are accurate. I mean, I have a friend who was
Speaker 1: very question that little actually is well, had a friend
Speaker 1: who worked for Jeb Bush. If Trump had Jeb Bush's
Speaker 1: schedule for a week, he'd be in the hospital. What
Speaker 1: he meant by low energy was not willing to say
Speaker 1: the kind of incendiary stuff, not willing to kind of
Speaker 1: cross the lines that Trump was able to cross. And
Speaker 1: I think he meant boring. Brian, I disagree. I think
Speaker 1: he just meant he was well, maybe the we're seeing
Speaker 1: the same things that he was. He was just boring
Speaker 1: because he wasn't. I think we're actually agreeing because he
Speaker 1: wasn't able to say the exciting stuff that Jeb just
Speaker 1: didn't believe in our thought was offensive. So in closing, Larry,
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all day. So this has
Speaker 1: been really fun. Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 1: What are your greatest hopes and fears for a Trump presidency.
Speaker 1: That's the same question we've asked our listeners. So, wow,
Speaker 1: you give me the oxymorons of oxymorons. Um. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a really tough one because the things that he
Speaker 1: wants to accomplish I don't want him to accomplish. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to build a wall or
Speaker 1: band Muslims or those types of things. And you know,
Speaker 1: the opposition is not in power right now. You know,
Speaker 1: they have a firm grasp on all the levers of
Speaker 1: government right now. So I'm just hoping that someone with
Speaker 1: some sense in there, and and with the more of
Speaker 1: an eye on, you know, on the country. I guess
Speaker 1: UH can talk some sense in the Trump I'm concerned
Speaker 1: that he hired Steve Bannon as the person in his ear.
Speaker 1: That really concerns me. You know. I think Ryan's previous,
Speaker 1: as we said, is very reasonably. I'd rather have Kelly
Speaker 1: on Conney. I think she was great her her really
Speaker 1: crowning Trump, which I think it was. She was indispensable
Speaker 1: in that campaign. She's very talented. When they hired Kelly Anne,
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that that's a really smart I thought
Speaker 1: it was smart to Yeah, I thought it was really
Speaker 1: so smartest thing they probably ever did. What do you
Speaker 1: think she's going to do that? They talked about a job.
Speaker 1: She said that she has been offered a job in
Speaker 1: the White House, although she won't say what what it is.
Speaker 1: Maybe by the time the show comes out will know
Speaker 1: how big of a Fox News star would she be
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, although Fox is having its own identity,
Speaker 1: that's a whole different discussion. Yeah, yeah, Brian, what are
Speaker 1: your biggest hopes and fears for Trump presidency? Uh? My
Speaker 1: biggest hope is that he can shape up an inefficient,
Speaker 1: bureaucratic federal government and maybe deliver better customer service for
Speaker 1: the American people. Um. My greatest fear is that he's
Speaker 1: as divisive in office as he was during the campaign,
Speaker 1: and half of the American people feel not just alienated
Speaker 1: from the president, but actively scorned and disrespected by the President.
Speaker 1: And I think that would a profoundly unhealthy thing for
Speaker 1: the country. Maybe he can come up with some compromises
Speaker 1: that will that will address some of the issues that
Speaker 1: we're so motivating for people at the polls, but do
Speaker 1: so in a more incrementalist way or in a way
Speaker 1: that isn't sort of you know, maybe he can use
Speaker 1: what's the expression set of a meat cleaver? He can
Speaker 1: use Uh, I don't know. What would you say, you guys,
Speaker 1: a scalpel instead and be and perform the surgery that
Speaker 1: I think most people agree needs to be done with
Speaker 1: with a little more care and a little more compassion.
Speaker 1: You're talking about a man who puts his name on
Speaker 1: places in large gold letters to do something subtly and precisely.
Speaker 1: A girl can dream, can't she? Larry, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming out. Was really fun to talk to you,
Speaker 1: and congratulations on all your success and continue. You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Thanks Brian, thank you so much for coming on. And
Speaker 1: as Katie mentioned, for our next listener question, we would
Speaker 1: love to hear from our conservative listeners, what do you
Speaker 1: think the future of the Republican Party is. We're curious
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts about the party itself, the division
Speaker 1: between the alt right and the establishment wing, how can
Speaker 1: the party appeal to Latinos and African Americans? Where does
Speaker 1: it go from here? So leave us a message at
Speaker 1: nine to nine, two to four, four, six, three seven.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to Gianna Palmer for producing the show
Speaker 1: and Jared O'Connell for engineering and mixing it. Thanks to
Speaker 1: Sam for engineering from l A. Thanks to Mark Phillips
Speaker 1: for our fantastic theme music. And remember you can always
Speaker 1: email us at comments at current podcast dot com. You
Speaker 1: can find Katie and me on social media. I'm at
Speaker 1: goldsmith B on Twitter, Katie's at Katie Kurrik on Twitter
Speaker 1: and Instagram, and Katie dot Kirk on Snapchat. Best of all,
Speaker 1: you can rate and review us on iTunes. We'd really
Speaker 1: appreciate it if you would let us know what you
Speaker 1: think of the show. Don't forget to subscribe to will
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Speaker 1: facts of life? That's amazing that you know I could do.
Speaker 1: This is Garrett, Oh, this is this is Carrott. Go
Speaker 1: sound like it