WEBVTT - That Ohio Utility Corruption Scandal, with Leah Stokes 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.760 Well, we are supposed to be on hiatus to produce 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.919 the next season, but stuff keeps happening that they just 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.040 can't leave alone. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:21.759 I'm Tracy Townson. 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.079 We begin to MTV News at noon today with breaking 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.920 news the arrest of Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.840 That news is sending shockwaves through the political world. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:35.080 Today, Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder says he will not 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.599 resign on the same day of his arrest on bribery charges. 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.960 Federal prosecutors say his arrest is just one piece of 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:43.639 a complicated puzzle for. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.800 Today to announce the arrest of Larry Householder, a Speaker 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.080 of the House the state of Ohio, and four other 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:56.640 defendants for racketeering in relation to what is likely the 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:02.360 largest bribery money laundering scheme ever perpetrated against the people 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:11.160 the state of Ohio. 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.600 Last week, the FBI arrested Ohio's Speaker of the House, 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.560 Larry Householder. He was the architect of a piece of 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.800 legislation called HB six, which passed last year in July 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.720 July twenty nineteen. That bill was widely recognized as a 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.360 terrible piece of energy policy. It essentially gutted Ohio's renewable 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:38.280 and energy efficiency laws and incentives and bailed out several 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.240 coal and nuclear companies. Today, we have on UC Santa 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.039 Barbara political science professor Leah Stokes, who wrote about this 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:51.280 law in her book on corrupt utilities called short Circuiting Policy. 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.240 Stokes wrote that this law in Ohio is a multi 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.120 billion dollar gift to First Energy, a private electric utility 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.639 that has resisted climate policy for decades. In her recent 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.840 Vox article about the current scandal, Stokes wrote, it turns 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.240 out it was a gift paid for with sixty one 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.560 million dollars in bribes. This story is nuts, and there's 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.600 probably no one in the country who knows more about 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.840 it than Lea Stokes right now. So we're excited to 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.160 talk to her. We'll have that conversation right after this 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.320 quick break from today's sponsor. 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:49.560 Lea Stokes. We are so glad you're here. What the 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.800 heck is happening in Ohio right now? 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.600 Well, it goes back way farther in time. I first 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.200 started working on this in twenty thirteen, and at that 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.040 time a different legislator who I wonder when his day 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.480 of reckoning is coming, named Bill Sites. He was working 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.360 to try to get rid of the renewable energy and 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:19.560 energy efficiency laws that had been passed in a bipartisan 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:24.080 way in Ohio, and he was actually working with somebody 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.720 named Sam ren Dazzo, who at the time was a 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.160 lobbyist for the industrial energy. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:31.760 Users of Ohio, basically a. 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:38.280 Big industrial company consumer of electricity that includes probably fossil 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.800 fuel companies and as it does in many states, manufacturers 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.960 that kind of thing. Well, fast forward if your Sam 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:49.960 Rendazzo is now the head regulator at the Ohio Public 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.880 Utilities Commission, which you're just like really anyway, they were 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.720 trying to gut the renewables and energy efficiency laws to 0:03:58.920 --> 0:03:59.840 some degree. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.880 John Kasick was opposed to that, although. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.880 Certainly not enough, and so they only managed to freeze 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.360 the roll back of the energy efficiency and renewable energy laws, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.480 but it still put huge damage in the industry. And 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:18.400 at the same time, Keith Faber, who was another part 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.120 of the legislative leadership at the time, he put in 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.760 a budget bill a rider, a sort of line item 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.599 that changed the setback rules for wind turbines, which basically 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.200 means how far from a property line or a building 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.719 does a wind project need to be and that completely 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.760 gutted the wind energy industry in Ohio. And John Kasik 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:44.039 as governor, could have line item vetoed that changed, but 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.279 he didn't. And so there was all these shady things 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.000 going on to try to mess up renewables and energy 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.039 efficiency in Ohio. And who's interest did that serve? It 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:58.480 served First Energy and AEP and other utilities interests because 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.920 they had all these exis existing plants, coal plants, nuclear 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.040 plants that they needed to keep operating. And if they 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.560 were being forced to build new clean energy renewables, then 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.920 how are they going to keep that stuff working? And 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.400 at the same time, Ohio was also going through this 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:21.039 electricity restructuring and suddenly a lot of the plants that 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.680 First Energy and AEP had invested in were struggling financially. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.080 I mean they literally were losing money in the market 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.479 every time they operated. So with all that going on, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.240 First Energy started to lobby the Trump administration actually to 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.680 get a bailout for their coal plants, and they tried 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:46.240 that for several years around sort of twenty seventeen. In fact, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.880 the Energy and Policy Institute, a wonderful watchdog of utilities, 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.240 has shown that the First Energy corporate jet has flown 0:05:55.440 --> 0:06:01.200 to DC over thirty times since the trumpetministration began, and 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.320 that Rick Perry, the former Secretary of Energy, has probably 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.200 met with the CEO of First Energy. So they were 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.680 lobbying very heavily the Trump administration and as possible that 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:16.520 this is where the Firk minimum Offer price rule came from. 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.960 This is basically a coal plant subsidy that was put into. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.560 The rules a couple of years ago. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:23.920 Now. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.680 Anyway, so they're doing all these corrupt things and it 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.600 wasn't quite paying their bills, and so they decided to 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.960 get a bailout on the agenda at the beginning of 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:38.960 twenty nineteen when Larry Householder became the Speaker of the 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.040 House of Representatives in Ohio, and that's when things really 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:44.120 started to pick up. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:48.479 Okay, so what exactly was HB six, What was this 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.160 bailout legislation? 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:56.719 Yeah, so in twenty nineteen, when Larry Householder became Speaker, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.680 it was actually a really big fight for him to 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:00.559 get that role. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.200 People may not know this. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.800 But Larry Householder was Speaker before and he ended up 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.640 leaving that role because of an FBI investigation in sort 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.680 of these allegations of corruption, this cloud of corruption surrounding 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.680 him back in the early two thousands, so he wasn't 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:21.240 a popular pick. But what happened was all of the 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:26.720 candidates running for the House of Representatives who supported Larry 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.040 Householder suddenly had a lot of campaign money. They were 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:34.040 doing very well in their elections, and people noticed that 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:39.679 it was all of the candidates who had that money, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.880 the shadowy support, who ended up voting for Larry Householder. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.600 So he won the role of Speaker, and with that power, 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.120 he began to do the bidding of First Energy. First 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:55.040 Energy at that time had spun off its generation assets, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.440 its nuclear and coal plants that were these are projects 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.600 that weren't really doing very well. They were losing money financially, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.160 and they'd put it in this new company called First 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.640 Energy Solutions. That company has now rebranded into Energy Harbor. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.560 It's a way that these utility companies try to avoid scrutiny. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.760 They changed their names all the time, but it was 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.400 called First Energy Solutions at that time. And what they 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.600 that was owned by a hedge fund and a bunch 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.440 of hedge funds, and these investors really wanted to get 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.480 their money back, and so it started to seem like 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.920 they were putting money a few million dollars, let's say, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:35.480 into lobbying and potentially even into campaign ads. So an 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.800 organization called Generation Now popped up on the scene, and 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.040 nobody really knew where this organization came from, and they 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:48.560 were spending money on mailers to people saying that HB six, 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.880 this law, which was a bailout for nuclear and coal plants, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.600 that this had to be passed, and that you know, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.080 it was so in the interests of Ohio wins and 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.440 if you weren't for it, it was because you you know, 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.760 the Chinese government was corrupt and somehow involved in Ohio's 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.719 energy system, which just completely bonkers. The Chinese government has 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.160 absolutely nothing to do with anything. And it passed, and 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.960 I mean, I'm telling you, the legislative session was done, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.680 everybody had gone home, and First Energy just kept saying, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.440 we need that money, you know, we got to get 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.360 that money, and they also kept changing how much money 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.680 they needed exactly, and the law ended up getting written 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.320 in a way that First Energy Solutions would never need 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.960 to open up their books or explain what they were. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:35.920 Going to do with this money. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.040 So they ended up calling a last minute vote which 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.280 actually Governor DeWine, a staffer from his office initially was 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.360 going to get a state taxpayer funded plane to go 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.000 pick up the legislators to bring them back to the 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.040 state House so that they could vote on this last 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.080 minute corporate bailout. That's how crazy it was. And by 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:02.040 narrow margins, householder delivered the votes and the bailout went 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.200 into effect. Now, even though it passed into law, a 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.120 bunch of advocates who thought this was a terrible corporate 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:13.920 bailout for polluting dirty coal plants, they tried to do 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.360 a ballot initiative basically in Ohio, if you pass a law, 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.400 you've got I believe it's sixty or ninety days, I 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.920 can't remember which one, where you can collect a bunch 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.160 of signatures for the people of Ohio and that allows 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.280 you to get it on the ballot so that the 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.319 people can vote to overturn that law that was passed. 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.680 And so a bunch of groups, including in fact some 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.520 fossil fuel interests, because they didn't like the bill for 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.800 other reasons, they started to try to collect signatures and 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:47.960 these signature collectors suddenly were being literally physically assaulted on 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.440 the street by people that nobody knew who they were. 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.480 There were these mailers going out saying that if you 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.760 signed the petition, the Chinese government would have your personal information. Again, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.240 completely bonkers, you know. In fact, these petition signers were 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.040 being bribed the people collecting the signatures to get rid 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.280 of the signatures or to go home early. 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.040 I mean literally, they were. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.000 Like, hey, are you collecting signatures? We'll give you some 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.199 money to stop doing it, or hey, how many signatures 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.840 do you have? If you tell us how many signatures 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.800 you have, will give you money because we need to 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.680 know how close you are to having enough signatures. And 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.120 people were like, where's all this money coming from? You know, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:36.000 who has all this money to do anti democratic organizing? 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.280 And shockingly, in the face of all that opposition, the 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.559 advocates did not get enough signatures for their ballot initiative. 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:48.760 And HB six's a terrible corporate bailout remains in law. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.079 And it was kind of an open secret that Larry 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.640 Householder was involved in all of this. We all knew 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.240 because somebody was funding his speakership by getting all these 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:04.920 people elected. You know, somebody was funding all this political 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:10.360 activity to stop the ballot initiative effort, and well, we 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.040 discovered this week when the FBI arrested Larry Householder I 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.800 believe at his farm in Ohio, that it was Larry 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.080 Householder and First Energy this whole time, and that they 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.959 had been funneling over sixty million dollars into this organization 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.280 called Generation Now and a bunch of shady sort of 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:34.160 front groups to do all of this corrupt activity. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.840 Okay, So now that Householder has been arrested along with 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.439 a few of his cohorts, it sounds like what happens 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.720 to this HB six. Does it automatically get put back 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.079 on the ballot for a vote or get repealed? What 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:50.439 kind of happens there? 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.280 Well, a lot of people, for example, Lisa Friedman in 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.840 the New York Times, A lot of people are asking, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.760 how is this a legit gitimate law if it was 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.840 passed based on corruption. 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:04.920 I mean, let's be. 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:10.560 Clear, Larry Householder got five hundred thousand dollars half a 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.319 million dollars of personal benefits as part of this sixty 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:19.160 million dollar scheme. We're talking about three hundred thousand dollars 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.960 to pay down a legal conflict that he was having 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.840 in his legal fees. One hundred thousand dollars towards his 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.440 vacation home in Florida, which he wasn't keeping up with 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.400 the taxes on, and another one hundred K ninety seven 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:38.000 thousand specifically for his own re election efforts. So he 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.720 was personally benefiting, personally enriching himself based on this money. 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.320 And so how is it legitimate that he passed this law? 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.320 And he really did, I mean, he got the votes, 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.880 he worked very diligently for six months to do this. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.439 And then how is it legitimate that the public didn't 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.880 have any say because there was thirty eight million dollars 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:06.760 put into literally physically assaulting, bribing petition signatures collectors. I mean, 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.920 so a lot of people are saying HB six is 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.719 not a legitimate law. It was never a legitimate law, 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.640 quite frankly, because it was a corporate bailout and it 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.400 was paid for by the same corporation that it was 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.040 benefiting from the money. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.160 So Governor DeWine. 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.680 Had called for Larry Householder to resign as Speaker, but 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.720 he had not called for the bill to be overturned 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.520 or for the legislature to meet and try to overturn 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.440 and change HB six. So I called him out on 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.440 that other advocates have to and today he didn't about 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.200 face and said, oh, I do think we should revisit 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.960 this law. And you know what I'm asking is there's another. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.320 Guy named Larry. His name is Larry Abhoff and he's 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:53.360 the Senate President. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:58.200 And Larry Obhoff has called for Larry Householder's resignation, but 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.480 again as not called HB six to be overturned. And 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.600 let's be clear, Larry Allpoff also took money from First Energy. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.400 Governor Dwine took money from First Energy. Most legislators in 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.520 the state of Ohio have taken money from First Energy. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.840 And I think that we have to ask ourselves why 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:21.440 is any politician taking utility money. It is so corrupting 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.120 it should not be okay. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:28.680 And we're talking about this First Energy private utility that was, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.720 you know, essentially paying off politicians to try to get 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.680 this legislation passed. What exactly do they get out of it? 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.560 I know there's been some talk of nuclear plans being 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.480 kept open maybe longer than they should have been. What 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.400 all did they get for this investment? 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.440 Yeah, it's a return on investment issue. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.040 If you are a hedge fund that has bought First 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.320 Energy Solutions. You think, look, let's put a few million 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.360 dollars into this, we'll get a couple billion in return. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:03.280 If you look at the FBIFA David, the people working 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:08.960 in this conspiracy literally described the money as unlimited. They said, look, 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.920 we have as much money as we need because they 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.440 understood what the benefit would be. The return on investment 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.560 is sixty million for a few billion dollars. I mean, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.600 there's so much focus on the nuclear bailout, which is 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.680 about one point three billion dollars, but there's a whole 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.680 other bailout for several coal plants that were in this 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.080 bill that's probably more about two times as large as 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.320 the nuclear bailout. So I estimate that it's something like 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.520 three billion dollars that we're talking about here. And keep 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.240 in mind that a few days after HB six was 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:44.280 put into law, a spokesperson for First Energy said, oh, 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.400 that Samus coal plant that we were planning to shut down, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.120 we don't need to shut it down anymore. And their 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.600 CEO of First Energy Solutions, John Judge, had said that 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.440 if we get that bailout money, we will have forty 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.960 to fifty million dollars to put into to the Samus 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.280 coal plant. So this is a coal plant bailout that's 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.320 keeping the Samus plant open and several of OVEK plants 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.719 open as well. So you know, a lot of focus 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.479 has been on the nuclear plants, but it's really a 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.000 coal bailout in my view. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.000 Okay, And then I know you wrote a whole book 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:23.800 about corrupt utilities and how they have shaped policy for years. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.960 But where does this kind of fit into that? Where 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.800 does this fit into the larger issue of utilities being 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.359 influenced by various companies to shape energy policy in their favor. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.640 It's called short circuit policy, and it's about how corrupt 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:40.720 the utilities are. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.359 And there's a fascinating. 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.040 History of the electric utility sector. Way back in the 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.280 early twentieth century. There was a person named Samuel Insul 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.800 and he's actually the guy who came up with the 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.919 way our utility system works. He invented the idea of 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.320 a monopoly utility that had a public utility commission that 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.480 would oversee it at the state level. And you know, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.080 there are quotes from that time that say, for you know, 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.760 a decade, he was the most powerful business operator in 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.560 the United States. And that really is how it is 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:15.360 state by state. These companies are often the most powerful 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.160 company in a given state. If you take Arizona Public Service, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.480 for example, you know they are extremely corrupt. They have 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.800 spent over fifty million dollars on elections for their own regulator, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.359 fighting against a clean energy ballot initiative. And you know, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.720 it's hard to get clear on how terrible they are 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.040 because they are funding the campaigns of a lot of 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.560 politicians in that state, and a lot of community groups, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.760 you know, soccer clubs, probably United Way campaigns, you know, 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:54.680 social welfare organizations. These groups take money from utilities, and 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.760 so they end up being a kind of octopus that 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.200 has its tentacles in all different parts of the state. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.520 And so I think it's hard for people in a 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.000 given state to get clear on how corrupt and problematic 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.200 these monopoly utilities are. And then across the whole country, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.320 because there's so many different utilities in different states, it's 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.960 hard for people to get the same sort of big 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.000 picture as they would for a company like Exon that 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.880 operates across the whole country and the world, or Chevron. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.040 You know, these companies like Southern Company are in a 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.520 couple states, or First Energy, right and they're also changing 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.680 their names all the time, right, Or they have subsidiaries, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.840 so you've got Southern Company as the parent corporation, but 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.320 then they've got Georgia Power, for example, or Alabama Power, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:46.879 and so it's a really complicated area that makes it 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.919 hard for people to pay attention. But I'm hopeful that 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.960 we're in a moment right now where the corruption is 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:57.040 just so blatant that maybe we'll start to get more 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:04.000 attention on really proper oversight and limits on spending from 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:18.840 utilities on political activity. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:21.800 Okay, that's it for this time. 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.200 Check out Lee's book is fantastic, a real deep dive 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.520 into how electric utilities have been architects of climate denial 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.720 and have really picked favorites when it comes to energy sources. 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.040 I thought I knew a lot about utility corruption, and 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:39.560 I learned a ton reading this book. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.199 So check that out. We'll stick a link in the 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.680 show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.