1 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Well, we are supposed to be on hiatus to produce 2 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: the next season, but stuff keeps happening that they just 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: can't leave alone. 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 2: I'm Tracy Townson. 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 3: We begin to MTV News at noon today with breaking 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 3: news the arrest of Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder. 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: That news is sending shockwaves through the political world. 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 4: Today, Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder says he will not 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 4: resign on the same day of his arrest on bribery charges. 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 4: Federal prosecutors say his arrest is just one piece of 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 4: a complicated puzzle for. 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 5: Today to announce the arrest of Larry Householder, a Speaker 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 5: of the House the state of Ohio, and four other 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 5: defendants for racketeering in relation to what is likely the 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 5: largest bribery money laundering scheme ever perpetrated against the people 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 5: the state of Ohio. 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: Last week, the FBI arrested Ohio's Speaker of the House, 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 3: Larry Householder. He was the architect of a piece of 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: legislation called HB six, which passed last year in July 20 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: July twenty nineteen. That bill was widely recognized as a 21 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: terrible piece of energy policy. It essentially gutted Ohio's renewable 22 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: and energy efficiency laws and incentives and bailed out several 23 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: coal and nuclear companies. Today, we have on UC Santa 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 3: Barbara political science professor Leah Stokes, who wrote about this 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: law in her book on corrupt utilities called short Circuiting Policy. 26 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: Stokes wrote that this law in Ohio is a multi 27 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 3: billion dollar gift to First Energy, a private electric utility 28 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,639 Speaker 3: that has resisted climate policy for decades. In her recent 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: Vox article about the current scandal, Stokes wrote, it turns 30 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: out it was a gift paid for with sixty one 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: million dollars in bribes. This story is nuts, and there's 32 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 3: probably no one in the country who knows more about 33 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: it than Lea Stokes right now. So we're excited to 34 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: talk to her. We'll have that conversation right after this 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: quick break from today's sponsor. 36 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Lea Stokes. We are so glad you're here. What the 37 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: heck is happening in Ohio right now? 38 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 6: Well, it goes back way farther in time. I first 39 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 6: started working on this in twenty thirteen, and at that 40 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 6: time a different legislator who I wonder when his day 41 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 6: of reckoning is coming, named Bill Sites. He was working 42 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 6: to try to get rid of the renewable energy and 43 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 6: energy efficiency laws that had been passed in a bipartisan 44 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 6: way in Ohio, and he was actually working with somebody 45 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 6: named Sam ren Dazzo, who at the time was a 46 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 6: lobbyist for the industrial energy. 47 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: Users of Ohio, basically a. 48 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 6: Big industrial company consumer of electricity that includes probably fossil 49 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 6: fuel companies and as it does in many states, manufacturers 50 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 6: that kind of thing. Well, fast forward if your Sam 51 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 6: Rendazzo is now the head regulator at the Ohio Public 52 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 6: Utilities Commission, which you're just like really anyway, they were 53 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 6: trying to gut the renewables and energy efficiency laws to 54 00:03:58,920 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 6: some degree. 55 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: John Kasick was opposed to that, although. 56 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 6: Certainly not enough, and so they only managed to freeze 57 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 6: the roll back of the energy efficiency and renewable energy laws, 58 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 6: but it still put huge damage in the industry. And 59 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 6: at the same time, Keith Faber, who was another part 60 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 6: of the legislative leadership at the time, he put in 61 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 6: a budget bill a rider, a sort of line item 62 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 6: that changed the setback rules for wind turbines, which basically 63 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 6: means how far from a property line or a building 64 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 6: does a wind project need to be and that completely 65 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 6: gutted the wind energy industry in Ohio. And John Kasik 66 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 6: as governor, could have line item vetoed that changed, but 67 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 6: he didn't. And so there was all these shady things 68 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 6: going on to try to mess up renewables and energy 69 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 6: efficiency in Ohio. And who's interest did that serve? It 70 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 6: served First Energy and AEP and other utilities interests because 71 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 6: they had all these exis existing plants, coal plants, nuclear 72 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 6: plants that they needed to keep operating. And if they 73 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 6: were being forced to build new clean energy renewables, then 74 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 6: how are they going to keep that stuff working? And 75 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 6: at the same time, Ohio was also going through this 76 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 6: electricity restructuring and suddenly a lot of the plants that 77 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 6: First Energy and AEP had invested in were struggling financially. 78 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 6: I mean they literally were losing money in the market 79 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 6: every time they operated. So with all that going on, 80 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 6: First Energy started to lobby the Trump administration actually to 81 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 6: get a bailout for their coal plants, and they tried 82 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 6: that for several years around sort of twenty seventeen. In fact, 83 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 6: the Energy and Policy Institute, a wonderful watchdog of utilities, 84 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 6: has shown that the First Energy corporate jet has flown 85 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 6: to DC over thirty times since the trumpetministration began, and 86 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 6: that Rick Perry, the former Secretary of Energy, has probably 87 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 6: met with the CEO of First Energy. So they were 88 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 6: lobbying very heavily the Trump administration and as possible that 89 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 6: this is where the Firk minimum Offer price rule came from. 90 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 6: This is basically a coal plant subsidy that was put into. 91 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: The rules a couple of years ago. 92 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: Now. 93 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 6: Anyway, so they're doing all these corrupt things and it 94 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 6: wasn't quite paying their bills, and so they decided to 95 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 6: get a bailout on the agenda at the beginning of 96 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 6: twenty nineteen when Larry Householder became the Speaker of the 97 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 6: House of Representatives in Ohio, and that's when things really 98 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 6: started to pick up. 99 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: Okay, so what exactly was HB six, What was this 100 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: bailout legislation? 101 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 6: Yeah, so in twenty nineteen, when Larry Householder became Speaker, 102 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 6: it was actually a really big fight for him to 103 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 6: get that role. 104 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: People may not know this. 105 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 6: But Larry Householder was Speaker before and he ended up 106 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 6: leaving that role because of an FBI investigation in sort 107 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 6: of these allegations of corruption, this cloud of corruption surrounding 108 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 6: him back in the early two thousands, so he wasn't 109 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 6: a popular pick. But what happened was all of the 110 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 6: candidates running for the House of Representatives who supported Larry 111 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 6: Householder suddenly had a lot of campaign money. They were 112 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 6: doing very well in their elections, and people noticed that 113 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 6: it was all of the candidates who had that money, 114 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 6: the shadowy support, who ended up voting for Larry Householder. 115 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 6: So he won the role of Speaker, and with that power, 116 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 6: he began to do the bidding of First Energy. First 117 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 6: Energy at that time had spun off its generation assets, 118 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 6: its nuclear and coal plants that were these are projects 119 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 6: that weren't really doing very well. They were losing money financially, 120 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 6: and they'd put it in this new company called First 121 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 6: Energy Solutions. That company has now rebranded into Energy Harbor. 122 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 6: It's a way that these utility companies try to avoid scrutiny. 123 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 6: They changed their names all the time, but it was 124 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 6: called First Energy Solutions at that time. And what they 125 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 6: that was owned by a hedge fund and a bunch 126 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 6: of hedge funds, and these investors really wanted to get 127 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 6: their money back, and so it started to seem like 128 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 6: they were putting money a few million dollars, let's say, 129 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 6: into lobbying and potentially even into campaign ads. So an 130 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 6: organization called Generation Now popped up on the scene, and 131 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 6: nobody really knew where this organization came from, and they 132 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 6: were spending money on mailers to people saying that HB six, 133 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 6: this law, which was a bailout for nuclear and coal plants, 134 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 6: that this had to be passed, and that you know, 135 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 6: it was so in the interests of Ohio wins and 136 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 6: if you weren't for it, it was because you you know, 137 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 6: the Chinese government was corrupt and somehow involved in Ohio's 138 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 6: energy system, which just completely bonkers. The Chinese government has 139 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 6: absolutely nothing to do with anything. And it passed, and 140 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 6: I mean, I'm telling you, the legislative session was done, 141 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 6: everybody had gone home, and First Energy just kept saying, 142 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 6: we need that money, you know, we got to get 143 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 6: that money, and they also kept changing how much money 144 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 6: they needed exactly, and the law ended up getting written 145 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 6: in a way that First Energy Solutions would never need 146 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 6: to open up their books or explain what they were. 147 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: Going to do with this money. 148 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 6: So they ended up calling a last minute vote which 149 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 6: actually Governor DeWine, a staffer from his office initially was 150 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 6: going to get a state taxpayer funded plane to go 151 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 6: pick up the legislators to bring them back to the 152 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 6: state House so that they could vote on this last 153 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 6: minute corporate bailout. That's how crazy it was. And by 154 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 6: narrow margins, householder delivered the votes and the bailout went 155 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 6: into effect. Now, even though it passed into law, a 156 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 6: bunch of advocates who thought this was a terrible corporate 157 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 6: bailout for polluting dirty coal plants, they tried to do 158 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 6: a ballot initiative basically in Ohio, if you pass a law, 159 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 6: you've got I believe it's sixty or ninety days, I 160 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 6: can't remember which one, where you can collect a bunch 161 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 6: of signatures for the people of Ohio and that allows 162 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 6: you to get it on the ballot so that the 163 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 6: people can vote to overturn that law that was passed. 164 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 6: And so a bunch of groups, including in fact some 165 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 6: fossil fuel interests, because they didn't like the bill for 166 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 6: other reasons, they started to try to collect signatures and 167 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 6: these signature collectors suddenly were being literally physically assaulted on 168 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 6: the street by people that nobody knew who they were. 169 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 6: There were these mailers going out saying that if you 170 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 6: signed the petition, the Chinese government would have your personal information. Again, 171 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 6: completely bonkers, you know. In fact, these petition signers were 172 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 6: being bribed the people collecting the signatures to get rid 173 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 6: of the signatures or to go home early. 174 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: I mean literally, they were. 175 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 6: Like, hey, are you collecting signatures? We'll give you some 176 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 6: money to stop doing it, or hey, how many signatures 177 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 6: do you have? If you tell us how many signatures 178 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 6: you have, will give you money because we need to 179 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 6: know how close you are to having enough signatures. And 180 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 6: people were like, where's all this money coming from? You know, 181 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 6: who has all this money to do anti democratic organizing? 182 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 6: And shockingly, in the face of all that opposition, the 183 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 6: advocates did not get enough signatures for their ballot initiative. 184 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 6: And HB six's a terrible corporate bailout remains in law. 185 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 6: And it was kind of an open secret that Larry 186 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 6: Householder was involved in all of this. We all knew 187 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 6: because somebody was funding his speakership by getting all these 188 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 6: people elected. You know, somebody was funding all this political 189 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 6: activity to stop the ballot initiative effort, and well, we 190 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 6: discovered this week when the FBI arrested Larry Householder I 191 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 6: believe at his farm in Ohio, that it was Larry 192 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 6: Householder and First Energy this whole time, and that they 193 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 6: had been funneling over sixty million dollars into this organization 194 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 6: called Generation Now and a bunch of shady sort of 195 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 6: front groups to do all of this corrupt activity. 196 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: Okay, So now that Householder has been arrested along with 197 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: a few of his cohorts, it sounds like what happens 198 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: to this HB six. Does it automatically get put back 199 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: on the ballot for a vote or get repealed? What 200 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: kind of happens there? 201 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 6: Well, a lot of people, for example, Lisa Friedman in 202 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 6: the New York Times, A lot of people are asking, 203 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 6: how is this a legit gitimate law if it was 204 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 6: passed based on corruption. 205 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: I mean, let's be. 206 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 6: Clear, Larry Householder got five hundred thousand dollars half a 207 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 6: million dollars of personal benefits as part of this sixty 208 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 6: million dollar scheme. We're talking about three hundred thousand dollars 209 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 6: to pay down a legal conflict that he was having 210 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 6: in his legal fees. One hundred thousand dollars towards his 211 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 6: vacation home in Florida, which he wasn't keeping up with 212 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 6: the taxes on, and another one hundred K ninety seven 213 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 6: thousand specifically for his own re election efforts. So he 214 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 6: was personally benefiting, personally enriching himself based on this money. 215 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 6: And so how is it legitimate that he passed this law? 216 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 6: And he really did, I mean, he got the votes, 217 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 6: he worked very diligently for six months to do this. 218 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 6: And then how is it legitimate that the public didn't 219 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 6: have any say because there was thirty eight million dollars 220 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 6: put into literally physically assaulting, bribing petition signatures collectors. I mean, 221 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 6: so a lot of people are saying HB six is 222 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 6: not a legitimate law. It was never a legitimate law, 223 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 6: quite frankly, because it was a corporate bailout and it 224 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 6: was paid for by the same corporation that it was 225 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 6: benefiting from the money. 226 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: So Governor DeWine. 227 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 6: Had called for Larry Householder to resign as Speaker, but 228 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 6: he had not called for the bill to be overturned 229 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 6: or for the legislature to meet and try to overturn 230 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 6: and change HB six. So I called him out on 231 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 6: that other advocates have to and today he didn't about 232 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 6: face and said, oh, I do think we should revisit 233 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 6: this law. And you know what I'm asking is there's another. 234 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: Guy named Larry. His name is Larry Abhoff and he's 235 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: the Senate President. 236 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 6: And Larry Obhoff has called for Larry Householder's resignation, but 237 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 6: again as not called HB six to be overturned. And 238 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 6: let's be clear, Larry Allpoff also took money from First Energy. 239 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 6: Governor Dwine took money from First Energy. Most legislators in 240 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 6: the state of Ohio have taken money from First Energy. 241 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 6: And I think that we have to ask ourselves why 242 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 6: is any politician taking utility money. It is so corrupting 243 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 6: it should not be okay. 244 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: And we're talking about this First Energy private utility that was, 245 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, essentially paying off politicians to try to get 246 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: this legislation passed. What exactly do they get out of it? 247 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: I know there's been some talk of nuclear plans being 248 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: kept open maybe longer than they should have been. What 249 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: all did they get for this investment? 250 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a return on investment issue. 251 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 6: If you are a hedge fund that has bought First 252 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 6: Energy Solutions. You think, look, let's put a few million 253 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 6: dollars into this, we'll get a couple billion in return. 254 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 6: If you look at the FBIFA David, the people working 255 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 6: in this conspiracy literally described the money as unlimited. They said, look, 256 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 6: we have as much money as we need because they 257 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 6: understood what the benefit would be. The return on investment 258 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 6: is sixty million for a few billion dollars. I mean, 259 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 6: there's so much focus on the nuclear bailout, which is 260 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 6: about one point three billion dollars, but there's a whole 261 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 6: other bailout for several coal plants that were in this 262 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 6: bill that's probably more about two times as large as 263 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 6: the nuclear bailout. So I estimate that it's something like 264 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 6: three billion dollars that we're talking about here. And keep 265 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 6: in mind that a few days after HB six was 266 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 6: put into law, a spokesperson for First Energy said, oh, 267 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 6: that Samus coal plant that we were planning to shut down, 268 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 6: we don't need to shut it down anymore. And their 269 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 6: CEO of First Energy Solutions, John Judge, had said that 270 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 6: if we get that bailout money, we will have forty 271 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 6: to fifty million dollars to put into to the Samus 272 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 6: coal plant. So this is a coal plant bailout that's 273 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 6: keeping the Samus plant open and several of OVEK plants 274 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 6: open as well. So you know, a lot of focus 275 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 6: has been on the nuclear plants, but it's really a 276 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 6: coal bailout in my view. 277 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: Okay, And then I know you wrote a whole book 278 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: about corrupt utilities and how they have shaped policy for years. 279 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: But where does this kind of fit into that? Where 280 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: does this fit into the larger issue of utilities being 281 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: influenced by various companies to shape energy policy in their favor. 282 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 6: It's called short circuit policy, and it's about how corrupt 283 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 6: the utilities are. 284 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: And there's a fascinating. 285 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 6: History of the electric utility sector. Way back in the 286 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 6: early twentieth century. There was a person named Samuel Insul 287 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 6: and he's actually the guy who came up with the 288 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 6: way our utility system works. He invented the idea of 289 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 6: a monopoly utility that had a public utility commission that 290 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 6: would oversee it at the state level. And you know, 291 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 6: there are quotes from that time that say, for you know, 292 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 6: a decade, he was the most powerful business operator in 293 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 6: the United States. And that really is how it is 294 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 6: state by state. These companies are often the most powerful 295 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 6: company in a given state. If you take Arizona Public Service, 296 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 6: for example, you know they are extremely corrupt. They have 297 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 6: spent over fifty million dollars on elections for their own regulator, 298 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 6: fighting against a clean energy ballot initiative. And you know, 299 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 6: it's hard to get clear on how terrible they are 300 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 6: because they are funding the campaigns of a lot of 301 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 6: politicians in that state, and a lot of community groups, 302 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 6: you know, soccer clubs, probably United Way campaigns, you know, 303 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 6: social welfare organizations. These groups take money from utilities, and 304 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 6: so they end up being a kind of octopus that 305 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 6: has its tentacles in all different parts of the state. 306 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 6: And so I think it's hard for people in a 307 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 6: given state to get clear on how corrupt and problematic 308 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 6: these monopoly utilities are. And then across the whole country, 309 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 6: because there's so many different utilities in different states, it's 310 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 6: hard for people to get the same sort of big 311 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 6: picture as they would for a company like Exon that 312 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 6: operates across the whole country and the world, or Chevron. 313 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 6: You know, these companies like Southern Company are in a 314 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 6: couple states, or First Energy, right and they're also changing 315 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 6: their names all the time, right, Or they have subsidiaries, 316 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 6: so you've got Southern Company as the parent corporation, but 317 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 6: then they've got Georgia Power, for example, or Alabama Power, 318 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 6: and so it's a really complicated area that makes it 319 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 6: hard for people to pay attention. But I'm hopeful that 320 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 6: we're in a moment right now where the corruption is 321 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 6: just so blatant that maybe we'll start to get more 322 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 6: attention on really proper oversight and limits on spending from 323 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 6: utilities on political activity. 324 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: Okay, that's it for this time. 325 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 3: Check out Lee's book is fantastic, a real deep dive 326 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 3: into how electric utilities have been architects of climate denial 327 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: and have really picked favorites when it comes to energy sources. 328 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: I thought I knew a lot about utility corruption, and 329 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: I learned a ton reading this book. 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: So check that out. We'll stick a link in the 331 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.