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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Hello, and welcome to it

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Speaker 1: could Happen here podcast about how the world is falling

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Speaker 1: apart and sometimes about how people are putting it back together.

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Speaker 1: What is today? It's me. I'm James if you haven't

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Speaker 1: worked that out yet, and I'm joined by screen to

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Speaker 1: say Hi, Shreen, Hi, This is Sharian, thank you, and

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Speaker 1: I'm joined today by Vicente Calderon. He's a freelance journalist

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Speaker 1: and they're proprietor publisher of Tijuana Press dot com and

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Speaker 1: he's covered the situation on the granted Tijuana for a

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Speaker 1: very long time. I'm an excellent work and we've sent

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Speaker 1: you what your people know about you. Nice to have

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Speaker 1: you here. Thank you to you for the invitation, and

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Speaker 1: in advance, I have to apologize for my English, because

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Speaker 1: it's a picture of the street and the Tijuana streets.

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Speaker 1: It's excellent to take a picture in the world kind

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Speaker 1: of English here. I'm a real original psychologist. I graduated

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Speaker 1: from the School of Psychology here, but I only worked

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years and then I got stuck

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Speaker 1: with journalism, and I have been here for more than

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Speaker 1: thirty years by now. I've been doing journalism from radio,

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Speaker 1: and then I moved to television, and then I went

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Speaker 1: to the US to the work with Spanish language media

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Speaker 1: twice in l A and then I came back and

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Speaker 1: now I'm I'm doing online or or digital medium journalism,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. So I'm a native here and again

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Speaker 1: I was just supposed to be working on this for

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Speaker 1: a while and feel like old enough to look like

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Speaker 1: a psychologist. Just got God on the on the um

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Speaker 1: addiction for journalism, Yeah I understand. Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: All right. So the reason we to talk to you

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Speaker 1: today is that we have seen a dramatic increase in

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Speaker 1: violence in Tijuana since Friday. Right, we're recording this on

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Speaker 1: the Tuesday, the sixteenth of August, so if people listening

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Speaker 1: to it later, they don't know, but can you explain

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Speaker 1: a little bit of what happened over the weekend in

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Speaker 1: Tijuana and then across Mexico as well. Well, the thing

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Speaker 1: began on Friday here in Mexicali and Tijuana. Mexicali is

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Speaker 1: the capital of the state of Baja California, which is

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Speaker 1: in the northwestern side the end of the US Mexico border. Um,

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Speaker 1: So we began seeing people burning cars on the road.

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Speaker 1: They were just ordering people from public transportation to get

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Speaker 1: off the vehicle. Uh not in a very so to speak,

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Speaker 1: threatening matter kind of way, because they said, well, the

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Speaker 1: problem is that we do but you have to get

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Speaker 1: off because otherwise because when we're going to burn this bus,

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Speaker 1: and and nobody was actually no, it was really heard intentionally.

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Speaker 1: We have just in Tijuana, we have about fifteen cases

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Speaker 1: like that. Was mainly public transportations vehicles or some cases trugs,

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Speaker 1: cargo trugs or private vehicles, but most of it were

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Speaker 1: public transportation vehicles. But people were working, and we're moving

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Speaker 1: people from their homes to their works or to want

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Speaker 1: to run one errand to on the other side. So

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Speaker 1: we began to see that this was in a very

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Speaker 1: limited space of time happening not only in in Tijuana

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Speaker 1: and in Mexicali, but also in five out of seven

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Speaker 1: cities of Baja California. Nobody was claiming responsibility, but it

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Speaker 1: looks like it was a coordinated effort in the basically

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Speaker 1: the main cities of the state. We were very surprised

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Speaker 1: because even though we have been dealing with drug violence

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Speaker 1: for many decades by now, we've never seen something who

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Speaker 1: looks like the narco locales or blockades of the streets

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Speaker 1: with drug traffickers, which are unfortunately very common in other

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Speaker 1: cities like monter Terrey, for example, recently in Jalisco on

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Speaker 1: the Pacific coasts in the central part of Mexico, but

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Speaker 1: not here in Tijuana. I mean, I know it sounds

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Speaker 1: rare or strange for many people who knows one of

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Speaker 1: our his bad reputation, but now we never had cases

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Speaker 1: like this before. That's why it was so surprising. At

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Speaker 1: the end that was on Friday, and then immediate the

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Speaker 1: local authorities began to explay, not only police from different

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Speaker 1: different agencies or also soldiers who were coincidentally so to speak.

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Speaker 1: We're here in big numbers and large numbers because there's

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Speaker 1: a really big push to put out more soldiers to

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Speaker 1: help with public safety and Mexico. Not everybody is pleased

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Speaker 1: with that because they say that Mexico is becoming a

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Speaker 1: militarized country and it shouldn't be because we have to

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Speaker 1: We're trying to be a democracy, and in a democracy,

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Speaker 1: is not the military or the army in charge of

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Speaker 1: so much responsibility. But that's something that has been changing,

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Speaker 1: specifically with this new federal administration with the president, and

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Speaker 1: so they sent out all of the soldiers and police

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Speaker 1: officers and things basically diminished. But but that time in

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Speaker 1: about let in about less than two hours, people was

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Speaker 1: already really scared. Obviously, the news spread and social media

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Speaker 1: and people began worrying. Also, they began seeing that the

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Speaker 1: public transportation was not enough because many were just came

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Speaker 1: to a halt. I mean, and not just the public transportation,

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Speaker 1: the officials of the city, but all the digital platform

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Speaker 1: like uber Diddy or other services. We're just worried that

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Speaker 1: it might be the next one. So if I stay

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Speaker 1: on the roads, am I going to be the target

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Speaker 1: of these guys. We were not sure what was going on.

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Speaker 1: We I guess everything one has like an idea that

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Speaker 1: this was coming or linked to drug trafficking, but we

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Speaker 1: were not sure at that time. So um in a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours every we didn't see more of these cases.

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Speaker 1: But at that time the city was really disrupted, so

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Speaker 1: they began closing. I mean the first thing who affected

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Speaker 1: was public exportation, so people was stranded without with no

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Speaker 1: ways to go to back home. And some schools were

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Speaker 1: counseling classes and since the students were not able to

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Speaker 1: find transportation, some offer places to stay and spend the

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Speaker 1: night on the schools. Also that happened in in Um

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Speaker 1: with other companies, with the Makila plants, the manufacturing plants

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Speaker 1: that are very popular. There's thousands of people here and

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Speaker 1: in Tijuana who were there also in medically, but here

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Speaker 1: also they in some cases have to open spaces so

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Speaker 1: they can spend the night there. And we went out

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Speaker 1: and was a lot of people stranded with no place,

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Speaker 1: with no way to move from where they were when

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Speaker 1: they began. Yeah, I saw even like Kelly Max that

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Speaker 1: the supermarket was classed right like the day closed early

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Speaker 1: and they announced that the next day they will hold

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Speaker 1: the operations that they will not open so they will

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Speaker 1: not put in jeopardy to the safety of their workers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and they that during Friday, we didn't know

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Speaker 1: what really what was going on, how severe was this happening.

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Speaker 1: And just keep in mind that on Friday, Friday was

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Speaker 1: the end of the of a week of very violent

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Speaker 1: scenes in different cities. It began in Guadalajara when they

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Speaker 1: were the army was trying to capture a couple of

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Speaker 1: drug lords or chief of cells from the uh calis

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Speaker 1: the haliska new generation cartel which is the quote unquote

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Speaker 1: newest and the strongest and most rapidly spund the drug

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Speaker 1: organization in Mexico. And the progress there, the dynamic was

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Speaker 1: very very different. Again in Tijuana, even after the weekend,

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Speaker 1: nobody was killed. Just one person in the CALLI got

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Speaker 1: injured due to burns when while they were burning his truck,

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Speaker 1: but apparently nothing major. So in the case of what

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Speaker 1: House a bit different. There were at gunpoint pulling people,

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Speaker 1: families out of their private vehicles and also bosses and

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Speaker 1: there there they were really actually located roads in an

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Speaker 1: effort to disrupt the operation from the soldiers trying to

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Speaker 1: capture their their bosses, and so the biody as well

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Speaker 1: were way more strong sort of speak there and after

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Speaker 1: that he moved to one of Gato, another state where

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Speaker 1: well there's high presence of Cartel Alisco New Generation, and

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Speaker 1: two days later we saw the worst case into the

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Speaker 1: aquaries across from the Passo. Texas is also another border

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Speaker 1: town or border city should say that has in dealing

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Speaker 1: with a lot of drug trafficking caves and and the

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Speaker 1: things was terribly worse there. I mean they were there

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Speaker 1: killing civilians randomly. They got to convene its stores like

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Speaker 1: think about your seven eleven. The counterparty is called also

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Speaker 1: it's a very uh big change chain uh in a.

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Speaker 1: In one of these cases they just went in open

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Speaker 1: fire to the cashier and they killed him. In other cases,

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Speaker 1: a pregnant woman got killed and another one since they

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Speaker 1: burned this these places, the woman who there's two persons

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Speaker 1: who died due to association because they got were cut up.

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Speaker 1: They were not able to flee the place. When this

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Speaker 1: guys we were showing up there, many of these guys

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Speaker 1: were also yelling or screaming, UM, hooray for the calis

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Speaker 1: con and Ras. Young boss's called or Sageta, I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: He's not Mencho, Mencho, Mencho his nickname Mencho or Saghara

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Speaker 1: is the leader of Calisco New Generation, and they were

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Speaker 1: just praising him and just saying that there were people

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Speaker 1: from Mencho and just they were just celebrating him as

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Speaker 1: they were doing all this destruction and terrorizing people. So

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Speaker 1: the worst part was in sadly, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: this was not bad, but just we have to put

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Speaker 1: it on perspective and fortunately here suldly for the people's

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Speaker 1: Fortunately for the people here, nobody was injuring those activities

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Speaker 1: on Friday. That diminished on Saturday, but we got more

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Speaker 1: cases on Sunday night and Mexically and we actually have

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Speaker 1: four about four cases on the first the last hours

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Speaker 1: of Monday in Ensenada. We are still seeing if all

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Speaker 1: of these have been related to the same effort due

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Speaker 1: to organized crime, or are just copycats because unfortunately, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: that also is happening some of the cases in Vehicali

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Speaker 1: that happened on Sunday night. We're according to the chief

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Speaker 1: of police there, just copycasts were just taking advantage of

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Speaker 1: the situation. I see, Well, that's that's interesting because until

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Speaker 1: someone takes responsibility, even if they do, all the talks

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Speaker 1: about like what cartels are, what that's just like in

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Speaker 1: theory right because there you don't know who's doing what

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Speaker 1: Am I understanding correctly? Well, yes, because it's it's not

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Speaker 1: like when a terrorist organization claimed responsibility for a vombinum

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East, for example. But here the thing

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Speaker 1: is now the authorities are saying that it's well, that

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Speaker 1: was not just one but different organizations they blame, and

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Speaker 1: mainly on Aliska New Generation, because it's one of the

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Speaker 1: along with this in a cartel are broadly extended in

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Speaker 1: the state, different states, and in this particular case they

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Speaker 1: can link it in the case of Jalisco and Guaguato

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Speaker 1: because they got information of these two bosses getting into

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Speaker 1: a meeting and that's why they reacted. In in the

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Speaker 1: case of Gas was different because everything began there with

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Speaker 1: a dispute within inmates of the local jail where they

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Speaker 1: are clearly two factions from the the two main organisms

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Speaker 1: stations who have been controlling turf in the parties. Here

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Speaker 1: we were not sure because unfortunately we have not just

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Speaker 1: one or two. We have a tree drug cartels or

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Speaker 1: trafficing organizations who have been acting or the link in

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Speaker 1: UH for the several years right now, which is the

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Speaker 1: Realiskan New generation, the one we talked about, which is

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Speaker 1: the relatively newest organization they seen. A long cartel who

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Speaker 1: has been from the cradle of drug African Mexico steps

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Speaker 1: in Alloa, expanding the routes that I'm sure they know.

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Speaker 1: A chapel from the Narco series very popular now has

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Speaker 1: been the public anime number one according to Chicago for

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Speaker 1: about eight years ago and now in a in a

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Speaker 1: jail in New York. But there their sons and their

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Speaker 1: associates are still operating their trafficing organization along different routes

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Speaker 1: in Mexico and and Baha, California is one of those

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Speaker 1: routes where they have a lot of strong presence. And

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Speaker 1: also the Ariano Felix drug organization, the so called Tijuana

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Speaker 1: cartel that is very popular has its own UM series

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Speaker 1: on Netflix as part of Narcos Mexico. This is the

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Speaker 1: relevance of these kids who who grow up as as

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Speaker 1: criminals at the border between Tijuana and San Diego. So

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Speaker 1: we nobody has claimed responsibility UM as in other cases,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's it's it's safe to know that

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Speaker 1: these are the main suspects in the case of Tiquana.

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Speaker 1: It's also the possibility that the field between these three

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Speaker 1: organizations um was an excuse for this level of violence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everybody is trying to be the strongest force,

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Speaker 1: so they challenge themselves not on this not only in

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Speaker 1: the streets, but on social media. And this was also

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Speaker 1: a way to challenge the authorities because even though the

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Speaker 1: authorities reacted quickly kind of subdue more or frustrate more events,

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Speaker 1: they were able to burn fifteen cars at the end

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Speaker 1: of the week, and we're thirty six in different areas

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Speaker 1: in different cities. So that is not something that you

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Speaker 1: can say another authorities. The military chief of the country saying,

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Speaker 1: well with in Tijuana didn't attempted against so the civilians,

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Speaker 1: well they did. They didn't kill them, but they burned

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Speaker 1: their property and they disrupted the whole operation. So we

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Speaker 1: are also seeing very carefully the way they local, the

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Speaker 1: local and national authorities are reacting because we were lucky now,

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Speaker 1: but this is probably will happen again if there's not

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Speaker 1: a really strong response from an intelligent response from the authorities. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I'm sorry if this is silly, but

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Speaker 1: is there any deeper meeting to it being specifically public

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Speaker 1: transportation like it just seems so specific to like target

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Speaker 1: how civilians are like transporting themselves. It's just like a

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Speaker 1: show of power to be like We're going to make

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Speaker 1: everyone freeze, or there is there any deeper meaning to

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Speaker 1: like what they're targeting, not that I understand so far.

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Speaker 1: I mean for me right now is because as they did,

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Speaker 1: they were successful and bringing the city to a halt.

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Speaker 1: I mean we went out and just think this was

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Speaker 1: a Friday summer night in a revolution. Who has seen

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Speaker 1: a renaissance the last for the last ten years. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people coming from the U. S Side

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Speaker 1: and from Mexico to enjoy the gastronomy, local the bars,

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Speaker 1: the party scene, what's dead. The only people we were

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Speaker 1: found we found there Friday night was UM workers that

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Speaker 1: were not able to find an uber or the uber

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Speaker 1: was I talked to some of the uber drivers, the

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Speaker 1: did drivers. To me, it went from one to seven.

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Speaker 1: I mean something will cost you ten dollars were costing

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Speaker 1: the press was now seven seventy dollars due to the

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Speaker 1: high demand and poor offer. So no, I don't find

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Speaker 1: another another explanations so far, so far with the information

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Speaker 1: that we have until now, um that could explain, but

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Speaker 1: they did reach a big impact with the relatively easy

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Speaker 1: actions after all these coordinator the attacks. Yeah, it's probably

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Speaker 1: worth mentioning the context of in one of goose months

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Speaker 1: kids was arrested and I believe eighteen I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to dates, but around then, and there was a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge increase in violence immediately following that, right and eventually

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Speaker 1: amblow the president gave the order to release him and

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Speaker 1: oh that was yeah, that was my recent was a

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Speaker 1: video one of the main sons in in something that

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Speaker 1: we call the Kulia is the name of the city,

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Speaker 1: is the capital of the status. As we said, I

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Speaker 1: have probably my mother is from Sinaloa and some people

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Speaker 1: from sin offender when we said that it's a cradle

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Speaker 1: of drug trafficking in Mexico because most of the power,

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Speaker 1: the law, the drug laws come from from from Sinaloa.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right, you're right. Uh, And that's something

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Speaker 1: that has become a big recurrent topic when people criticize,

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Speaker 1: especially the political opposition the current president, because they said,

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Speaker 1: this is the origin of this kind of demonstrations. So

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Speaker 1: when when when the government wants to act. Now the

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Speaker 1: criminals know that an effort a coordinated effort to get

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Speaker 1: out on the streets and to show their muscle, could

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Speaker 1: um make the government to think twice, to hold their

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Speaker 1: operation and to free in some cases these guys. Again,

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Speaker 1: in the case of Jalisco, they were on the way,

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Speaker 1: according to the official statement from the Mexican Army, to

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Speaker 1: try to capture these two leaders. But didn't happen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the criminals get organized to blockade the actions of the authorities.

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Speaker 1: In the case of Iquana, we were not. We didn't

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Speaker 1: get to that point. Was more like there's also one

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Speaker 1: theory which says that the local chapter or to speak

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Speaker 1: of the cat as I was just trying to replicate

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Speaker 1: what happened there, just to to show the force, to

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Speaker 1: demonstrate the muscle as as a criminal organization here in Tijuana. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's basically the two theories that a dispute between them

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Speaker 1: and the other one is that, um, they were just

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Speaker 1: replicating a little bit in a in a in a

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Speaker 1: different dimension, so to speak, what happened in just to

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Speaker 1: tell them, you know the same here, this is what

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be facing. And that was a message for

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Speaker 1: the authorities. Yeah, I saw a resident compared to what

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Speaker 1: it was like in the early stages of COVID, like

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Speaker 1: how ghost town it was, and I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you think about it? That's pretty powerful if a cartel

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Speaker 1: can have the impact of a pandemic, if not more so,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's terrifying. I can't imagine. I think it's

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Speaker 1: worse when we went out when COVID first begun in

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Speaker 1: the lockdown. And this will be too silly, but there's

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Speaker 1: the red like districts that never sleeps here. We went

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Speaker 1: to that particular horridor. Nobody was in the main drag there.

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Speaker 1: But it's a reality when we we we just we

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Speaker 1: went out and we got video of this streets basically empty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your video on your Twitter. We we'll find a way

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Speaker 1: to link to. It was incredible. It was just like

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Speaker 1: it it's normally like the Strip in Las Vegas or something,

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Speaker 1: and it was just a ghost town ghost Yeah. Again,

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Speaker 1: the only people we found there was people looking for transportation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy. So there's been a massive, at least show

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Speaker 1: of state power in Tijuan and the last I don't know,

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00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: four or five six months, like they're constantly rotating new

324
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Speaker 1: trips in They do the parades with a big flag

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Speaker 1: and it's like to looking from the outside from a

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Speaker 1: less informed perspective, it looks like there are these various actors, right,

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Speaker 1: and each of them sort of flexes their muscles in

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Speaker 1: a different way. And and it is that relevant here

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Speaker 1: has to They discovered a tunnel, if I remember correctly,

330
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Speaker 1: Have they done much else in Baja since I started

331
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Speaker 1: these big deployments. No, that's one of the main complaints

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Speaker 1: of the locals organizations, civil or civilian organizations here, because

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Speaker 1: even though we have I'm gonna I make some notes,

334
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: and we have five thousand, six hundred and sixty soldiers

335
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: UM right now in the state of Baja California, most

336
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: of them in Tijuana, who have been deployed since August

337
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: last year, which is when the natural Australity, Australity of

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Speaker 1: peace as the government called it, begun. UM. But unfortunately

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Speaker 1: I can give an other statistics. We have only just

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Speaker 1: in Tijuana, in the municipality of Tikuana so far this year,

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00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: i'll most one thousand, two hundred homicides. I mean we

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Speaker 1: as as a city, as a municipality, we have way

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Speaker 1: more homicides than many Mexican states. This is the level

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Speaker 1: of violence that we are dealing with in a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: And and this is when you hear the authorities talking

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Speaker 1: about a reduction on homicides, which is true, probably true

347
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Speaker 1: in terms of the numbers of statistics, but still one thousand.

348
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: We're we're a little bit past half the year, and

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Speaker 1: we already passed one thousand homicide. I mean, when people

350
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Speaker 1: get alarmed in Chicago is when you are hitting. I

351
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: remember a couple of years, but like five hundred and

352
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Speaker 1: the whole year. We have this in three months, and

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Speaker 1: and and this is the kind of of problems that

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with. But you have to also keep it

355
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: in mind. Last week the d o J of the US,

356
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: the FBI, the d A, Customs and Border Protection have

357
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: a gathering to announce that San Diego became the epist

358
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Speaker 1: center for smuggling of fentadel. Six of the seizures of

359
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: Fentonel in all the nations occur between Sanito, the main

360
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: port of entry here in San Diego, to Calexico. And

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00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: there's there's six parts of entry in this stretch of

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Speaker 1: land at the end of the border, on the western

363
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: end of the border. Well these places is where more

364
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: than half of the phantomel that is being smuggled to

365
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: the US. It's going through. That will explain partly the

366
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: level of biodies that we've been didn't and how even

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Speaker 1: though there's good efforts by the local authorities, state and

368
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Speaker 1: local authorities, I mean, even given that there's cases of

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Speaker 1: corruption as in any other agency. UM always say that

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Speaker 1: we have great, very capable detectives and police officers and

371
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: Mexico but there but in many cases there's no political

372
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: will from their bosses to really act on on and

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00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: the on the benefited benefiting the public. So this is

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00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: the kind of building the problem the world. You know,

375
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: Fantany is now the most lucrative drug to to transport

376
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: or traffic and between Mexico and the US, even with

377
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: all the problem that is contined in the US with

378
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: more than one and two people dying in the last

379
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: year or overdoses linked to opioids, but also now we

380
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: have a problem that is growing with people dying with

381
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: fantanyl overdose. Besides the fantony, the mental fantamine problem that

382
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: also has been increasing the traffic here and now we

383
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: are seeing the comeback of some drugs trafficking and deep

384
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: and new levels like heroin and cocaine who came out

385
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: of fashion for a while, but I always doing a

386
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: kind of a resurgence at least in this corridor. Yeah,

387
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: that's fascinating like that that there's been an increase specifically

388
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: coming through that Baja California area. Maybe then we should

389
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: explain a little bit about these three actors, right they

390
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: c J n G will call them the cut the

391
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: Sinaloa and the Ariana Felix or Tijuana cartel. Can you

392
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: explain a little bit about who they are and where

393
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: they sort of fit into this where they come from? Maybe, well,

394
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: I basically all come from the uh people are watching Netflix,

395
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: Narcos and Netflix. They talk about this federation of cartels

396
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: again everything the main power was from the state of Sinaloa,

397
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: and between nineteen mid nineties n mid nineties, when the

398
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: rest of Felix Gayarlo they reestablished. They distribute the route

399
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: and one was the one of the Pacific along the

400
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: Pacific from Sinaloa to the along the Pacific, and they

401
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: basically um cut the country into different the main routes,

402
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: and then you have different organizations. Those organizations who used

403
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: to be together became a powerful house on their own,

404
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: and that has increased the violence from the nineties because

405
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: now you have from the beginning they are Yano Felix

406
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: who used to be partners with the chapel Uh and

407
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: there are been in disputes and feuds among them. So

408
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: the main one is was the main one and oldest

409
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: is the Sinaloa cartel head by the chap cobusman Uh

410
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: and now is myel el Mario Stambada, which is still

411
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: a gentleman, gentleman around probably getting to their eighties, I'm

412
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: not quite sure, but but who has been on the

413
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: run for many years, but relatively calm and with big

414
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: investments and with the high presence here in California, with

415
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: that faction of this in a cartel, and that's a

416
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: local also when after the arrest of the chapel is

417
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: it's run. And the other big faction for the sons

418
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: of Chapo gusman Video and and the lost chapter, they

419
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: call it los Chapitos. There's like three three Ivana, Chivado

420
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: and I can't remember the name of the other one.

421
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: So that's it's in a cartel with with presence but

422
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: mainly in the northern part and really mainly basically basically

423
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: Uh their thing is to manufacturing um madam, petomine and

424
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: now fanelil and send it to the US. UM then

425
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: they are the Yellow Felix Ru organization who became as

426
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: a result of that division, that distribution that according to

427
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: the most commonly non narrative about drug world, um Felix

428
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: the true that after his arrest established themselves in i Juana.

429
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: They are from Sinaloa too, but they established themselves from

430
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: Tijuana in the actually in the eighties. But at the

431
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: nineties they became powerful on its own and they due

432
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: to the proximity of San Diego and to the fact

433
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: that they missed mixed with many of the border lifestyle

434
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: a lad of Tijuana, they changed the image of the

435
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: drug trafficker demor became more entrepreneurs and they wanted to

436
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: become the main the first Mexican cartel, Colombian pabulous of

437
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: our style. According to the narrative, no, and they did.

438
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 1: They became the nineties they were most one of the

439
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: most powerful drug organization in the world for the amount

440
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: of not just marijuana cocaine that they were moving. I

441
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: mean they established relationships with Colombian and after a while

442
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: Colombians were not trafficking in Mexico. They were just sending

443
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: the drug to the Mexicans. At the beginning, they were

444
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: Columbians were kind of leasing the routes in the Mexican

445
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: territory to send the drugs into the US. But then

446
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: when this division of a new commerce and the drug

447
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: trade in Mexico, they decide, and I think the rio

448
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: Fas have some um something to do with that, they

449
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: want to go and get the drugs from Colombians in

450
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: the South and South America and bringing and just take

451
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: care of the whole thing. So become their own curtel.

452
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: And then then another off off shoot, this is what

453
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: you call it like spinoff, spinoff kind of another way.

454
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: All the of this in a log because they used

455
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: to have a presence in Guallajara and the different factions

456
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: were killing each other, changing loyalties, and then began a

457
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: force on their own um after a big division between

458
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: the beltran Leva group and the Nasal Coronal organization, and

459
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: they become their own cartain on the own. And and

460
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: that's we're according to the d e A and and

461
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: also Mexican authorities is expanding more rapidly in very short

462
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: period of time. And then unfortunately have been moving not

463
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: only to draw trafficing, but there's many small groups that

464
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: now are making their money. And the ole way of

465
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: the mafia, the Cosa Nostra was doing their money in

466
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: New York in the seventies or before, not that they

467
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: were just extorting money out of local businesses, from a

468
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: well established chain of stores to a little tagistan on

469
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: the corner. There's also the trafficking of gasoline in Mexico

470
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: and and has been doubling. I mean anything that they

471
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: once they get powerful, they began to move to other activities.

472
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: For example, in the case of the anothetics, keep tapping

473
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing, let's say, before the ninety before the

474
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: the nineties in Baha, California, they were kidnapping people who

475
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: owned who used to be there their associates. Is the

476
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: the where's my money kind of thing, you know, like

477
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: you think about good fellows and and and they were

478
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: killing the chother there's everything among themselves. But later they

479
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: began that they were were they were active with a

480
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: lot of impunity. That they had a lot of cobs

481
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: thirties on their payroll. So they began to move to

482
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: other ways to earn money. And that's what we have

483
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: seen now that the expanding this little as in Colombia

484
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: used to go the baby cartels, we now have like

485
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: a new chapters, smaller organization, not as powerful, but as

486
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: violent as as the original. I wanted to ask because

487
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of these like supposedly like they

488
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: come up on TikTok or Facebook, right, these little announcements

489
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: from the different cartels, and they tend to say, at

490
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: least in the context of California, that like, we didn't

491
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: want to disrupt ordinary people are good people, are good

492
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: citizens about California, you know, but we need you to

493
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: stay in your homes this weekend. Write things like that,

494
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: but it obviously does have an impact on the people

495
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: who I just sort of doing whatever they do, just

496
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: running their business. And so I was wondering sort of

497
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: how people get through these difficult times Antijuan and California. Well,

498
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: times are becoming more difficult because many people believe this

499
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: because the widespread possibility of disseminating these messages now and

500
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: you never know which ones are real, yes, and which

501
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: ones are not. Um. I mean, you guys have the

502
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: same with the gangs. Remember, like don't bling your your

503
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: head lies, because then the gang will start killing people

504
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: left and right. Just take that on steroids. Now with

505
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: social media and and now everybody with the phone that

506
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: can get that messages. And that was that played a

507
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: big role in what happened on writing here in Tijuana,

508
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: they were recycling a video of three guys video taping

509
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: themselves in from of the Attorney General's office in Tijuana.

510
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: Says so mantris here, we're gonna kill everybody, and just

511
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: being very loud and and and and with a lot

512
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 1: of insults and trying to scare the everybody the rights

513
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: but everybody else. So during the hours of Friday, somebody

514
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: began retreating that when was at least a year old

515
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: of them claiming that that they were they were over here.

516
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: Some people think this all this commotion happening, a lot

517
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: of this cards burn, They didn't know exactly what was

518
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: going on. Some people began to call in narco blocals

519
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: that just scare more people. And then you see this,

520
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: so the level of anxiety increased significantly. You have to

521
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: very careful and there's also you have to also keep

522
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: in mind the political feuds that we are seeing. What

523
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: you have seen between some people loyal to Trump and

524
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: the rebulic comparty and some people that are against Trump.

525
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: Is the same here with Morena and non Morenna actors

526
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: or people who likes the Morena which is the political

527
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: party founded creative by the current president, are the ones

528
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: who are against them and are very unhappy or angry

529
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: with all these social policies. Um and and for example,

530
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: we have here a television station run owned by the

531
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: former governor Obaja California, who has is a very close

532
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: friend of Andres Manuelope or the current president, who became

533
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: a very powerful figure and due to his proximity. Basically

534
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: the current president revived this gentleman, which by the way

535
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: lives in San Diego and Chula Vista in a big

536
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 1: mansion because he exiled himself from about thirty years ago

537
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: when he was associated with the last p r I government,

538
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: the pre the political party run Mexican for the last

539
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: for seven years in a row. He was a very

540
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: close associate with He could taka Laba Morta, which was

541
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: the the current governor who didn't finish his his turn

542
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: because the and then President of Mexico, Carlos Alina's accused

543
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: him of corruption. So he just removed him and this

544
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: guy Himmonia became a paria. So the p AN the

545
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: new power basically mark him because also he had some

546
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: previous suspicious relationships through the baseball team here in Tejuana

547
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: and from other endeavors. That makes them looks like very

548
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: close to the Ariana Phelix d organization. The Ariana Phelix

549
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: organization has been linked for many years with the last

550
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: administration because they him that that last Prnstrass is the

551
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: one who basically opened the door for the Ariana Felis

552
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: to establish here in BA California. So this is what

553
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: we are seeing that that this messages. Well, now this

554
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: guy who just left the office that the NIA just

555
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: finished his governorship on December last year, so there's a

556
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: new governor. But he also owns a television station, so

557
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: he who is always criticizing the current governor, which is

558
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: where the same political party it was uh using some

559
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: of these messages with no proof or no validity or

560
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: very suspicious and he was saying in their newscasts were saying,

561
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: well there's also this happening. There's the threads and they

562
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: know that this government is corrupt and they were just

563
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: alling too to the fire, and I mean as an analog,

564
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, the the real fight, but to the concern

565
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: of the people. And in this term like saying that

566
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: all we're gonna start a lackdown and we'll be talking

567
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: to what's work for talking expression for tok to like

568
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: that you cannot go out, Yes, martial martial will start

569
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: at six. If we see you on the streets, we're

570
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: gonna killed you. There was a message that that television

571
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: station was repeated once and again every day, so I

572
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: was just added to So all these all these new

573
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: novelty is sort of pick with a digital era are

574
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: also creating bigger fires in the political spectrum and in

575
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: a place where you never know what exactly the line

576
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: is between the criminals and the government. Yeah, I think

577
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: it's a very good thing to hide. I actually this

578
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: idea that there's like distinct blocks right like and that

579
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: this supplies And I don't want to say like this

580
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: is a Mexican thing, because it's not. This is a

581
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: global thing, but like that there's a distinct plug between

582
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: like crime and media that you consume and the government

583
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: and the people that like working for the state, Like

584
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: like the the idea that is a very separate and

585
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: the world off doesn't it doesn't apply here, and I

586
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: don't think we should say elsewhere either. Yeah, it's it's

587
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: a problem. He's becoming it's becoming worse and worse. No,

588
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: because this factions, this other arena. I mean, we are

589
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: seen it here also with the official statements from the authorities.

590
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: I mean I was telling you earlier that that they

591
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: the military had the secretary of the military says, well

592
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: in the one that they didn't went against the civilians,

593
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: and the governor also repeated that. So well here, fortunately

594
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: they didn't affect that the life of the people. Of course,

595
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: of course they did. I mean, we were lucky they

596
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: didn't kill anybody. But but no, they did. And so

597
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: you have to also be finding that propaganda from the

598
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: government against the propaganda from the criminal groups and the

599
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: different political legal factions in other quote unquote non state actors,

600
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: just to put it in in a different context. So it's

601
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: becoming very difficult. And yeah, I always say, excuse me

602
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: if I readat this, but honestly believe, I mean, there's

603
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: always great investigators detectives in Mexico willing to put their

604
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: lives on the line for the good of people, but

605
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: it's not always in the best conditions. And and this

606
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: is like just the character of traffic. Uh, probably you

607
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: were You guys were very young when traffic came across.

608
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: I mean a very popular movie which is about from

609
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: the nineties and the end of the night is probably Yeah,

610
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: where were the One of the three main characters is

611
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: an honest Mexican caps I. Fortunately I met several of

612
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 1: cases like that, but some of them have been killed

613
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: due to their own estate, but also others that learned

614
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: to survive and play along and try to do as

615
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: much good as they can um within the circumstances they

616
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: are dealing with. Yeah, I think talking of good investigators

617
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: who are trying to heal with difficult circumstances, maybe you

618
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: should touch on the violence against suppress that we've seen

619
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: in California and in Mexico as a whole. I mean,

620
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: you come to talking about yes, yes, unfortunately, and this

621
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: is terribly sad. A couple of hours ago, we just

622
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: learned that the one of the reporters who was reported

623
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: missing in the neighbors in state of Sonora was being

624
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: found dead. So we have another killing of a reporter.

625
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: We also saw that the case of stare as they

626
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: kill poor employees of four workers of a radio station, broadcaster,

627
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, affeelingly, randomly, apparently random, but then I mean

628
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: we I mean depending on which told you take your

629
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: look too. Because there's like the official for the government,

630
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: federal government from the CpG the Committee to Protect Journalists

631
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: and or reports in other organizations, there is not that

632
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: there's about ten or fifteen between I would say ten

633
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: or fourteen or fifteen journalists or media workers skilled. So

634
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: far this year we have two of those killings happening

635
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: here in Tijuana in in January. Um one of them them,

636
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm convinced by now that he was killed for the

637
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: leader of drug trafficking cell was operating in the east

638
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: side of the city, who wasn't pleased with some of

639
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: the stories that one of the media outlets, his name

640
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: is mar One of the media outists that Margharito was

641
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: working too as a freelance swer was was pullishing very

642
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: revealing stories about the operation of the trafficer. So he

643
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: ordered and pay for some other people to kill Margarito

644
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: because he and my humble opinion, was the weakest link,

645
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: because he was living on the same neighborhood. That these

646
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: guys were operating working the night shift. That is very

647
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: common that only a few of them are left to

648
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: to do that. Chief that beat uh, he was easily identifiable,

649
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: identifiable for the crooks because Margito will show up at

650
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: the crime scenes. And in many of these cases you

651
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: have people who work for the same organization. Organization show

652
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: enough to make sure that the guy was really killed

653
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: and who showed up. And and I mean even when

654
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: the killing is done, the criminals are still working the scene.

655
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: And in some cases we met with these guys guys

656
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: without knowing. I mean, these guys were were um even

657
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: willing to go to the funeral of Margarito. The only

658
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: reason they were not there is because they when they

659
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: approached this a lot of military presence on during the funeral.

660
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: So I'm convinced that Margharito was killed due to his

661
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: work as a as a photographer. UM. In the other

662
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: case of my friend all coworker, Lord de Sandoval, I'm

663
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: not sure what was the motive. In both cases are

664
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: two people in jail, but the procedure is still on

665
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: the beginning stages. We are not proved, and the main

666
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: thing is we don't know who order and pay for

667
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: their killings. Well we know, or I think I have

668
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: a big suspicion about which one is the guy who

669
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: killed them in the case of Margharito, not in the

670
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: case of lords and the authorities. I'm not confident enough

671
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: that they're gonna be able to all the crimes in

672
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: this particular cases. The other one, there's two cases, Inn

673
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: there's other cases and tom lipas uh. I guess by

674
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: now we have to count at least two or three

675
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: in Sonora with the sad news that we got today.

676
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: So it's difficult. I mean not everybody is is risking

677
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: their life when they're doing journalism in Mexico, but you

678
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: never know when the danger will jump against you. I

679
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: have a always tell this story about a photographer to

680
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: what was called to cover a traffic accident my minority. No, no, Well,

681
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: the problem is that the the guy who was involved

682
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 1: in the traffic and the accident was a drug blord,

683
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: very a very well known operator, very dangerous operator, and

684
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: he kept taking pictures thanks to some of the officers,

685
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 1: firefighters and ladies who saw that he was being um

686
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: treated not very naievely, and they lay it is that intervened,

687
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: he was able to get away. He had to live

688
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: town for a while. Uh, that's it. But that's the

689
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of environment that we are dealing with. Is not

690
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: that every story makes you put you in danger, but

691
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: you never I mean, you can do a lot of

692
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: you can be a reporter and not be on danger.

693
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: Not you don't get into subjects that are tricky, you

694
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: don't get too much in political corruption, and you don't

695
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 1: do get too much on on drug trafficking, on care

696
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 1: and homicides. You're pretty much gonna be able to do fine.

697
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: But but the promise sometimes if you're doing a story

698
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: none related, there may be some link to put you

699
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: in danger. And that's the situation. And unfortunately, the level

700
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 1: of impunity and on crimes again journalists is even worse

701
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: than the level of impunity of general civilians in Mexico.

702
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: I will say that generalists about ninety personal ninety eight

703
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: percent and nine for for case of journalist civilians. So

704
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: our case is worse. The possibility of somebody will be

705
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: punished for killing you. It's it's very, very, very spanning. Yeah,

706
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's terrible. I don't know. It's again, like

707
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: you said, it's not just a Mexican problem. You see

708
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: in so many governments across the world where press our

709
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: targeted specifically. Um. But yeah, and I appreciate your work

710
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: even more knowing that the percentage of cases are just

711
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: violence against you, so against you as a journalist is

712
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: so high. It's very sad and it's very disencouraging. But

713
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: I always, I mean, my I have a familihood, is

714
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: not copy because I'm still working on Friday. They called

715
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: me the one. They want me to stay at the office.

716
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: They don't want me to get out. Um, and I

717
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: under tend. I understand, Pepper, it's one of the men.

718
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: But also on the other hand, it's uh, you know,

719
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: this is important information. Even when we are dealing with

720
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: an avalanche of information that is not necessarily well treated.

721
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: We need to have good information so people will make

722
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: good decisions. We are in a very small joint democracy.

723
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: We just began to make in roads on electoral democracy.

724
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: It's relatively recent. Began basically at the end of the

725
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: nineties here in Baka, California, and has been moving to

726
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: the two thousand's and now we are unfortunately back back

727
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,879
Speaker 1: in many ways. But but now you can rely now

728
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: on who is running the elections together. That information was

729
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: very important. Now we need to be also very make

730
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: a lot of big efforts to explain people that you

731
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: can make Mexico is making progress even in these dire conditions,

732
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: but you have to pay attention and also try to

733
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: to learn where the information is coming from. That not

734
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: all the media is the same that we have do.

735
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: We come from a big tradition of government control media.

736
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: Now media control also due trafficking organizations, and in some

737
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: cases both are linked and and working to give your trouble.

738
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: And also there's a lot of press that has chosen

739
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: to just go with the flock and just live out

740
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: of propaganda. And sometimes they do good things, like they

741
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: go and give boys to the people and the local community,

742
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: so the the water is established or there's more um,

743
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: there's no more need for to fix a park or

744
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: to public transportation, and they do do good. This is important.

745
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: All the the job of the reporters is good, but

746
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: in the in the bigger dimension of the bigger problems,

747
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: they tend to be on the side of the government.

748
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: Because the government found this way to give you a

749
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: lot of public advertisement and to have you under their control.

750
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: And many reporters want to be good journalism with journalists,

751
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: but their editors of the owners of the companies are

752
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: not willing to rouse that easy way to get a

753
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: lot of money from the government and more easily than

754
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: to start putting themselves on the risk, which implies when

755
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: you do heavially digging or criticizing the powers of Yeah,

756
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: how how would someone know that they're getting accurate information?

757
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: In that case? This applies to every country in the world.

758
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: You have to really be conscious and like seek out

759
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: particular sources. But like in this case, what do you

760
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: recommend for people? I mean, it's difficult. You're right, this

761
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: is the simple everywhere. But I guess the same recipe

762
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: works here. I mean, just double chair, double check their sources.

763
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: Try to compare several UM media outlets and to see

764
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: where it's reporting UM, whether each of them is reporting

765
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: UM the same way that you find the way they

766
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: are leaning in the US is the what you find here.

767
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: But the problem is the established media, the how do

768
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: you call it? Um? The traditional media is becoming less

769
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: relevant because most of the main good journalism is done

770
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: by small revolves soup. They began their own entities, their

771
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: own platforms. I mean, some cases there's good reporters working

772
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: for good media outlets. Normally those are not local. I

773
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: mean when you see the big media companies, don't they

774
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: don't have which some exceptional, but they don't have any

775
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: people doing urnalizing at the local level. You will find

776
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: good local journalism with these renegades or rebels that have

777
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: people who have been fired from the big, larger organization,

778
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: and you have to be looking for those options. I

779
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: mean that doesn't mean that it's a guarantee that they're

780
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: gonna gonna be independent completely. You also learn how to

781
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: read them. For example, there's a good case of two reporters.

782
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: We just where they resigned or were fired, we don't

783
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: know exactly, but they from a well prestigious publication locally,

784
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: they began their own operation. They have they are good, proven,

785
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: proven as a reporters. You know what I'm trying to

786
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: say that they have a reporter. Yeah, yeah, I thought

787
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: that was what it was. I was just like, I

788
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: don't actually don't know, I don't know phrases either. Yeah.

789
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: They made a name for from themselves doing good journalism

790
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: with other publications, began their own media outlet, and some

791
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: people was complaining that they were too close to some

792
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: uh state agency with the new government. And they have

793
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: great information. They do good, good um reporting, but you

794
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: have to look curve carefully and which which type and

795
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: where are they leaning to. So I always read them.

796
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: I just take it with a grain nut sal that

797
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: you will see say in English, to try to balance

798
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: my intake of information from different sources. It's difficult to

799
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: tell the people because they are not general The general

800
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: public is not as involved or interested in media on

801
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: and on the newspaper or on the news. We are

802
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: because we live out of it. But people is doing

803
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: their life and making the the will to move around,

804
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: not for all of us in different France as a doctor,

805
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: as a housewife, as a teacher, and they don't have

806
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: enough time to then to analyze media the way we do.

807
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: So we I think we need to do a little

808
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: bit of that. Try to tell them this is for

809
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: this reason we believe this media outlet is living in

810
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: this direction, this is subsidized or is getting We do

811
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: that this is getting this amount of money from the

812
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: government and not this amount of money from the government,

813
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: that that will give you a hand to take it

814
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: and to see who are they dealing with I mean

815
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: there's guys who have been working for the governen now

816
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: are back to reports. I mean therese cases like that

817
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: in the US. Stephanopolis used to work for the for

818
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: the one of the presidents on the guy for of

819
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: Harball from MSNBC used to work for Nixon. I mean,

820
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: we see this, but in this environment it is more

821
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 1: difficult to to live out those connections. And it's always

822
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: tricky to be moving from government jobs to journalism jobs

823
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: because it's not I mean you have to so. I

824
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: mean when in my perspective I never worked for for

825
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: the government, I hope I would never have to do that.

826
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: I respect the ones they do, but you as we

827
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: need to be more transparent, transparent in that sense to

828
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: be able to be fair with the people. Yeah, that

829
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 1: makes sense. There's this interesting development in Mexico that I've

830
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: seen in some areas, like if I want to learn

831
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: about like what's happening in the yucky pueblos in Sonora

832
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: or in chapters, like these people who will just be

833
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: like citizen reporters on Facebook, doing very local reporting that

834
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: it seems to get really popular, but that they will

835
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: sort of blow up really quickly doing this like Facebook

836
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: only reporting. It's really interesting because there's a big need

837
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: of information and they know many people in Mexico have

838
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 1: learned to be distrustful of the quote unquote legacy media.

839
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: The expression I was looking for legacy media, the big companies,

840
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: um and And the problem is there's this risk that

841
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 1: many of those media, you media outlets, which is basically

842
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: Facebook accounts or TikTok accounts. Now, uh, the people doesn't

843
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: know how to deal with I mean, they they are,

844
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: they have good intentions, but they don't really know how

845
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: journalists should work. And in some cases they think, like

846
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: some for example, that they can take money for different

847
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 1: actors and that will help them to grow and and

848
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: I guess you can, but but you have to be

849
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: very careful. And this has been a big problem that

850
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: I'll try to emphasize every time I talk about our situation.

851
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: For many years, the government was too close or their

852
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: reporters were too close to the government. The government will

853
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: make easy with a lot of privileges for the reporters,

854
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: so they learned to do this to work in this scenario.

855
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: So if I was close to the government, they will

856
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: expect it's a lot of things for me, so to speak.

857
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: I can get good money. I can get probably a

858
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: license to for a bar way weaker than somebody who

859
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: is not doesn't have that access to the government. I

860
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: can probably get like um taxi licenses for example, because

861
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: I'm a reporter. Because I'm I'm close, I can get

862
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: close to the movies and checkers and the political arena.

863
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: No but you. So they did that, and when the

864
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: drop trafficking with the narcos became another power, many many

865
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: reporters began to see it in the same way. So

866
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: they were closely with the government was powered, and then

867
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: we're coursing with the businessmen, and they were closely with

868
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: the with the unions because they were giving them handouts

869
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: or treat them them prevalently, or they were able to

870
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: do some traffic of influence who will give them some benefits.

871
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: When the narcos became a problem regional power on their own,

872
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: some of the reporters didn't see the different or gain

873
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: too close to that power, and that has put a

874
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: lot of the reporters in danger. I think the reporters

875
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: are learning a little bit more to stay away from

876
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: those But there's also with the abandment of social media,

877
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: many people who are really crooked, or that they were

878
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: not very interested in doing things ethically from the beginning.

879
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: That now see that with a Facebook account, with a

880
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: TikTok account or Instagram or any other platform, you can

881
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: pass by a reporter. So there's this need of information,

882
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: but also it is filled with um with good and

883
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: bad people, as in any other cases I always talk.

884
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the all analogy of a gun

885
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: is the gang bad or good? All depends on the

886
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: circumstances you are using it. No, yeah, yeah, I'm not

887
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: not a gang guy. But I don't want to get

888
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: into your your your political discourse about your First Amendment. That. Yeah,

889
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: that's a whole another episode. Need. Yeah, that's line if

890
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: you said, sure, did you have anything else? No, that

891
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: was awesome, Thank you so much for all the information. Yeah,

892
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: and talking of reliable media, where can people find you online?

893
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: Where can they find your work? Where can they find

894
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: your social media? The main thing is Tijuana Press dot com.

895
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: That's back room is just an online needed media outlet.

896
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: Is not a newspaper. It's just when we we have

897
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: been changing our way of work because we began as

898
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: a daily we're no longer to do that because we

899
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: don't have enough resources for that, but also there's plenty

900
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: of daily media outlets, digital media outlets for the daily stories.

901
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: We want to do a little bit more in there,

902
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: more investigative, more give you context of what is going on.

903
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: We we are in Spanish, but you can follow us

904
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter on add Tijuana Press. Because we tried to

905
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: with our poor English, try to do some on tweets

906
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: on English with the help of Google Translator or other Hell,

907
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: guys who other call that will correct or spelling. But

908
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: that's the main way to get ahold of us. Well,

909
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: I think you're English is great. Uh, you talked to

910
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: us for an hour and I understood everything. Um. But yeah,

911
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: but thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Yeah,

912
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: thank you, sante, No, thank you guys. You always help

913
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: us to spread the world and to be able to

914
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: put ourselves to be judged by the public. This is

915
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: what it's more important for us. But we do invest

916
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: in algorithms from any social platform because we believe and

917
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: and that the people will be willing to find us

918
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: if they are really interested, and you guys help us

919
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: about in that sense. Yeah, thank yeah, thank you so

920
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: much giving us some of your time. We really appreciate it.

921
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: Thank you. We'll be here if you would be, it

922
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: would be a big help. Thank you, Thank you. So

923
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: welcome to it could happen here a podcast about things

924
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: falling apart and how to put them back together again. Now,

925
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: a thing that has fallen apart that we have talked

926
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: about at length before is the protection of the right

927
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: to abortions, previously enshrined in Roe v. Wade and no

928
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: longer enshrined in that. And we've come at this from

929
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: a number of angles, but one angle that we've neglected

930
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: so far is is the labor angle. Um. And Okay,

931
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: so for reproductive autonomy to exist, right, you need healthcare,

932
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: and healthcare, especially under capitalism, requires labor. And and that

933
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: labor isn't done by you know, abstract organizations. It's done

934
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: by workers who are facing not only sort of the

935
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: mall of the death of row, but the in transient

936
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: and often the belligerency of the room bosses. And here

937
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: to talk with us about that is Crystal Grabowski and

938
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:58,439
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Vella Nuevo from the wonderfully named UEI Local six

939
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: nine six UM, and I'm gonna I'm going to read

940
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: a pseudo legal disclaimer here, which is that they are

941
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: not representing Planned parent who they do work at Planned Parenthood.

942
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: They are not representing planned parenthood. They're they're representing themselves

943
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: as individuals and our local union, yes, proud members of

944
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: Local six nine, six impeccably named union, purposefully named right. Well,

945
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: they were like, you have to choose a a number

946
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: that starts with six, and then we just looked at

947
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: each other and we had that moment where it's like, yes,

948
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: and then we can add another one and it'll be

949
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:44,439
Speaker 1: a good time, fun little threesome. He'll be safe. That's good.

950
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: So sorry, round one of pro union propaganda joining you

951
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: did and YouTube can be in in Union Local sixty

952
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: nine or what if they told you the number could

953
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: start with four, like you know, yeah, boom, there's just

954
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: so many options. I'm sure there's other fun numbers that

955
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,439
Speaker 1: besides those, but you have the entire world in front

956
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah, we could have done six, you could

957
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: do like boom. Can you imagine if we did six six?

958
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: We could now we had that choice, and we went

959
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: with six nine six. Sexual Health Organization is to prove

960
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: that workers will always make the right decisions. This is

961
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: the power of the union. We can evaluate these decisions

962
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: when when it's important and do the right thing. So yeah,

963
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: thank thank you, thank you to you so much for

964
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. Thank you for having us.

965
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: We're both super excited. Yeah, thanks for tining us a

966
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: slowly abortion workers. So I'm gonna I'm gonna dispute heavily

967
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: with the term slowly like youall are the people who

968
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: make all of this possible. Bull So yeah. Yeah. And

969
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: and now now having said all of this, I'm about

970
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a very depression question, which

971
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: we have. We've asked a lot of the people who've

972
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: talked about abortion access, uh like who work in abortion

973
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: access stuff this question, but I think you two had

974
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: a very different experience of it. Um. What was it

975
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: like on the day when Roe died? Do you want

976
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: to go first, Crystal? Um? Yeah. I've talked about this

977
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: a lot because I'm getting asked a lot, and it's

978
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm happy to talk about it, um, which is I'm

979
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: actually like, it's been hard to listen to other people

980
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: talk about it because then I start getting in my fields.

981
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: But like when I'm talking about and I'm kind of

982
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: like just processing and it's probably healthy for me, somebody

983
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: would say, but it was incredibly traumatic, and it's been

984
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: incredibly traumatic, um since the fall of Ruby Wade and

985
01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:00,439
Speaker 1: the Dobs decision. And I'm saying this, well, like knowing

986
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: that we all knew it was coming, it was it

987
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: was a given and it wasn't surprising. And there's just

988
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: something about knowing that it's been coming for months and

989
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: years that like just it just did nothing to actually

990
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: inform you, like what would it be like? Um, But

991
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: it was like a it was like a tidal wave

992
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: crashing and just like sweeping you away. And we're still

993
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: swept away. Um. The only language that I can find

994
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: that's appropriate is like natural disaster language, and I just

995
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 1: I keep repeating it and saying, like it's like a hurricane,

996
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: It's like a tidal wave. But that is the those

997
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: are the words that are most fitting to me, like

998
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: emotionally and just in terms of like the violence and

999
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: the that is that you that people are experiencing, um,

1000
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: and just the the emotional and mental and bodily harm

1001
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: is equitable to a natural disaster. Yeah. And I think

1002
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: during one of our debriefs, during a particularly difficult all day,

1003
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: this was pretty um row. We were talking about how

1004
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it's really hard for us when we can see

1005
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: these things coming and yet there's nothing we can really

1006
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: do about it. And I know that we talked about

1007
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: how it felt like we were just tied to a

1008
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: train track, watching and waiting for that train to just

1009
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: come and hit us, and then when it did, it

1010
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: was just it just knocked I think the wind out

1011
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: of all of us. Um, I think we all cried

1012
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: for sure, that we all cried, and um, and I'm

1013
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: not even like, I don't know, like I feel like

1014
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: I am. I'm emotional and I am a crier, but

1015
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: a whole I didn't think that I would sob immediately

1016
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: the second I saw the news. And then I always

1017
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: knew we were going to get a lot more calls

1018
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: because um, Elizabeth and I also answered phones in the

1019
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: abortion clinic, and I was like, Okay, we're gonna get

1020
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: way more calls. But like, you don't know what that

1021
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: feels like or looks like. Her sounds like, like, what

1022
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: is it I feel like to have a hundred people

1023
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: calling you pretty much at the same time? What does

1024
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: that look like? Now? I know, and it's traumatic and

1025
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: it's awful, and um, it's a natural disaster, but it's

1026
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: a man made disaster. Actually it's not a natural disaster.

1027
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: We've there are people who have inflicted this upon us, um,

1028
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: and now we know what it feels like, and it's

1029
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: sucking awful. I should have asked if I was allowed

1030
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: to swear. Oh yeah, I swear all the time, okay,

1031
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: because like I've been on podcast before where they were like, oh,

1032
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: we gotta edit that out, which, well, it's a fucking nightmare. Yeah,

1033
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: we work in healthcare. I think we swear more than

1034
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: the average lay man because they keep saying something out. Yeah,

1035
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: there's so much more to say, like yeah, please, I

1036
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: don't even know where to go from there. It's just yeah,

1037
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: it's like a never ending nightmare because like the calls

1038
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: started and then it's just like just just person after

1039
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: person after person. They driving driving two hours, three hours,

1040
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: four hours, five hours, coming from states that are like

1041
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: three states away, coming from like states in the South,

1042
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: people taking planes and um, people staying in hotels and

1043
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: we've had people pay like hundreds of dollars for maneuver

1044
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: eshm and um. And then just like bringing in the

1045
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: labor angle to as like unionized abortion workers who you know,

1046
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: we have been vocal and we've been rallying and making

1047
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: our demands like publicly known. But we are doing this

1048
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: while under staffed, like skeletal crew staffing. We didn't have

1049
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: enough staff before row fell and the jobs decision, and

1050
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: now we just it's bare bones and it's like we

1051
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,600
Speaker 1: are So we're taking on this title wave, this like

1052
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: man made title wave, while just giving every last ounce

1053
01:08:55,400 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: of our energy. Yeah. Um, and do multiple roles at once. Yeah.

1054
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if you are able to tell from

1055
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: the fact that Crystal and I both work directly in

1056
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: the clinic, but we also answer calls. Um. When we

1057
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: signed up for our job, Um, we knew that we

1058
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: would be doing multiple things around the clinic, and it's

1059
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: just it's funny, um to not really know what that

1060
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: means until you start doing it. So one day you'll

1061
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 1: be holding a patient's hand while they're having this procedure done,

1062
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: like giving them a little baggy in case they feel sick. Um,

1063
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: you'll be talking to them on the phone. So some

1064
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: there are days where, um, I will meet people who

1065
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: I've spoken to on the phone when they called took

1066
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: their appointment, and it just hits me like a tidal wave.

1067
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,440
Speaker 1: Because I'm like, that's the person, Like, that's this person specifically,

1068
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: I remember because I remember hearing the sound of their voice,

1069
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 1: and every single time they call in they are sobbing.

1070
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: This is a horrifying moment for them. This is a

1071
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: moment where they feel like trapped, They feel like they

1072
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: can't share with their family, with their friends. Um, depending

1073
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: on what state they're from and the legalities of that state.

1074
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: They are even afraid to make these phone calls. Like

1075
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: some of the first things that patients say to us

1076
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: when they call it is in my is this okay? Like?

1077
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: Am I allowed to call you? Um? Amula to talk

1078
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 1: to you? Of my allowed to book an appointment? Um?

1079
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: What's going to happen next for me? Appointment? Yeah? Because

1080
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: we're not lawyers, because we everything is so fluid right now,

1081
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 1: we don't have answers to give them. Um, we can

1082
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: just say, well, you're coming to Pennsylvania and it's stillegal

1083
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, so um. And then just to like paint

1084
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: the picture a little more too about like both the

1085
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: skeletal staffing and the emotional turnoil and the emotional weight

1086
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: of it. Um. So that Dobb's decision happened on June,

1087
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: which was a Friday, and we're in Pennsylvania, and that

1088
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: evening of the evening of June, a trigger man went

1089
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: into effect in in Ohio. It was a it's a

1090
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: fetal heartbeat bill, which is a deceptive language because it's

1091
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: not actually a heartbeat but um, but it's a it's

1092
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: technically a fetal heartbeat bill. And so people after six

1093
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: weeks um could no longer access abortion services or once

1094
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: any sort of like electrical impulse was detected and everyone

1095
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: had their appointments canceled. So we were actually at a protest,

1096
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: like the staff was like at a protest that evening,

1097
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: um with our with our doctors, our abortion providing doctors,

1098
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: and the news came out like yeah, shout out to them,

1099
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: we love them, um, and we got the news that

1100
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: Ohio had just did this, and we were just like,

1101
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, tomorrow because we knew the second our

1102
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: call center and our phone lines opened, everyone whose appointment

1103
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 1: was canceled is going to be calling us. And then

1104
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 1: we pull up the staff schedule and we're like standing

1105
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: in the middle of the street at a protest. We

1106
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 1: pull up the staff schedule and we're like, oh my god,

1107
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: there is one person schedule to answer phones right now,

1108
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: and it is an older woman who's been doing this

1109
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: since like the seventies or eighties, and it's like we

1110
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: cannot like and we were like all as a union, like, um,

1111
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: we turn to each other and we're like, oh my god,

1112
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: this is the situation. We cannot leave her alone. Um,

1113
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: we've already worked our five days, we already worked our

1114
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: already five hours, but we are going to call ourselves

1115
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: into work. And like we just we were like we've

1116
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 1: notified our managers, like we're gonna come into work and

1117
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna help too, answer the phones for these canceled

1118
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: Ohio patients. Like that was a decision that we made

1119
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: to work those extra that that extra time on our

1120
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: weekend off because it was a Saturday. But this ties

1121
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: into what Elizabeth was saying, where, Um, when you hear

1122
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: the person on the phone and then they come to you,

1123
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,680
Speaker 1: and like it's very emotional because like you're doing your

1124
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: best as a health care worker to get them the

1125
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: health service that you have been trained to provide and

1126
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: that you know is very important. So knowing that we

1127
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 1: were understaffed, UM, knowing that we're not making that much money,

1128
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 1: and then just being like I have to go in

1129
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: and be there. I can't leave my coworker alone because

1130
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: I love my coworker and we can't. And like, somebody

1131
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: has to be there for these these patients when they're calling.

1132
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: And if it's not going to be the employer and

1133
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: the bosses, then it's going to be you. And then

1134
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: and then we we all just we did that, and

1135
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: then um there was another clinic day. We a lot

1136
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: of us arranged to come in for an extra work

1137
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 1: day because we were like, we have we have to

1138
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: be there for these patients. Um, so we're really giving

1139
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: all of our energy and it's exhausting and traumatizing. I

1140
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: can't I feel like I can't say that enough. But

1141
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: and we we need more staff, we need better wages,

1142
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: we need better working conditions because it's so it's like

1143
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: at the end of some of these days, it's like,

1144
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: how am I going to keep doing this? My body hurts,

1145
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: my brain hurts. I started having like issues with my

1146
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: memory where like I couldn't remember anything because like brain

1147
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 1: just gave up on retaining information. And I'm like, I

1148
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 1: think this is like a trauma response, like yeah, I'm

1149
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: overwhelmed system shock. I think this is one of the

1150
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: things you get with with working for NGOs, which is

1151
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: that like we're doing something like this is like there

1152
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: is work that needs to be done, but you know,

1153
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: the employers not giving you the resources that is necessary

1154
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: to do it right. You have one person on a

1155
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: call line like the day after a fetal heartbeat bill

1156
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 1: goes goes into effect, and and it's I don't know,

1157
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: it seems like one of the one of the things

1158
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: that's that that these NGOs do is they were you know,

1159
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: they make they make a mistake or they do something

1160
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: deliberately because they don't want to pay people and then

1161
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 1: they don't want to pay another more people, and they

1162
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 1: make you go deal with it because you know it

1163
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: has to get done because these people need you, and

1164
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: that nobody has to do it. Yeah, and that's so cruce.

1165
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: It's disgusting. So for me, I like to equate it

1166
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: as kind of like being emotionally gaslight because the whole

1167
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: point of healthcare, and I've said this to other people

1168
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: in different health care roles that I've worked before, because

1169
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 1: as we do, health care is chronically understaffed, Like there

1170
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 1: are so many like nursing shortages, and things. UM. Is

1171
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: that healthcare is designed to draw people who want to

1172
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 1: help to have these like very strong moral and emotional

1173
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: beliefs um. And we are paid to care like it

1174
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: is our job to care UM. And that is how

1175
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: they can get all of these things out of us.

1176
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: Is because it's very easy to feel emotionally manipulated when

1177
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,560
Speaker 1: somebody's like, well, somebody has to be there for this patient,

1178
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: this person UM, this like thing that can't wait um.

1179
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 1: And so a lot of us UM. Even like I

1180
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,640
Speaker 1: said before, I worked here. At like different positions that

1181
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: I've held, I've been like, I will take an extra

1182
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: shift because somebody has to do it. And I love

1183
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: my job so much. I love working in healthcare. It's

1184
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: something I've been very passionate about since I was a

1185
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 1: small child. UM. So I for years would burn myself

1186
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 1: out and be like, I'll take the extra shift at

1187
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: a different position. UM. When I used to work at

1188
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,879
Speaker 1: a care UM. I worked at an intermediate care facility

1189
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 1: for adults with intellectual physical disabilities UM for a couple

1190
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: of years, and I remember routinely working sixteen hour shifts

1191
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 1: like day in and day out. I think there was

1192
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: like six seven days a week of just doubles where

1193
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: I would work like sixteen hour shifts. I don't think

1194
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 1: I like slept or aid or did anything UM. And

1195
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 1: then at one point I was so burnt out that

1196
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it anymore. And I started to

1197
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: get frustrated with the people that I worked with and

1198
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: like the patients that I cared about. And this one

1199
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:11,799
Speaker 1: particular day, I like, I noticed myself getting incredibly annoyed

1200
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 1: with everything that was like happening, like sounds, patients like

1201
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: just being themselves, Like I didn't, you know, take it

1202
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: out on anything or anyone. I just noticed myself getting

1203
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 1: like slightly more irritated. And then I was like, this

1204
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: is not sustainable. I can't keep doing this UM. And

1205
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 1: I compared this recent change posted the jobs decision to

1206
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 1: what it was like when I also used to work

1207
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: for distributing medical equipment to hospices UM. It felt like

1208
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 1: every single moment was an emergency that I just did

1209
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: not have the resources to be able to UM help

1210
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: with because is on one end of the line, you

1211
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 1: have somebody that is having this emergency, and then on

1212
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:08,719
Speaker 1: the other end of the line, there's another person pulling

1213
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: you because they're also having an emergency, and so you

1214
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: have to kind of weigh which one of these patients

1215
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,760
Speaker 1: like needs you the most right now, and which one

1216
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: of those can you reasonably help. It's like that psychology

1217
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 1: psychology puzzle where they're like, um, if you move the

1218
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: thing on the try, yeah, the trolley problem where like

1219
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: one of these people will die or seven people will die,

1220
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 1: and you have to decide which one of those you're

1221
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 1: gonna pull. Yeah, there's only so much that we can

1222
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 1: give as healthcare workers, as abortion workers, as reproductive health workers. Um,

1223
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: there's only so many hours in a day. And as

1224
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 1: much as we want to keep giving for us to

1225
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 1: keep poor hanging out of an empty cup, it's just

1226
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: not sustainable for ourselves. Like I know, many of us

1227
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: have lost sleep, many of us have stopped like being

1228
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: able to focus on anything outside of work, because as

1229
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 1: soon as like you turn on the news or you

1230
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: open your phone or you like open up Twitter, there's

1231
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 1: more and more and more information because everything is consistently

1232
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: changing all of the time. And like, um, Western Virginia

1233
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: is currently having like there, Um, yeah, so that's new.

1234
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 1: And we had a couple of calls come in from um,

1235
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: you know, we had Kentucky. Yeah, so that was new. Um.

1236
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 1: And we're just starting to like really have a good

1237
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: pattern of resources for patients coming in from like Ohio. Um,

1238
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 1: and now we're like, okay, well what about Kentucky. So

1239
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 1: we just like we feel like there's just one like

1240
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: hole in the dam that we put our finger on

1241
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: and then another one shows up that at some point

1242
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: we just have to know that we've done our best. Um,

1243
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: and then it's okay to take a second to rest

1244
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: um and do you know, go home and maybe like

1245
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: watch TV or listen to a podcast. Yeah not about abortion. Yeah,

1246
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: forget about abortion for two seconds, and because we will

1247
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 1: inevitably have to do it again tomorrow. This reminds me

1248
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: a lot of Um, I did an interview like I

1249
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 1: don't actually it will be a couple of weeks, I

1250
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 1: guess by when this comes out. With some organizers who

1251
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: were like trying to do like relief and aid for

1252
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 1: the migrants. You're getting bus to d C from Texas,

1253
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: I think you talk to and it was like they

1254
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: were talking about exactly the same thing where it's like

1255
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: we have to do this, we have to do this

1256
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: because otherwise no one's gonna help these people, but like

1257
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: at a certain point it's like everyone has COVID, like

1258
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 1: we just can't and it I don't know, it's I

1259
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: think it's especially frustrating that this is happening because like

1260
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 1: those people were just like they have no resources, right,

1261
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of people who could drink virtually

1262
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 1: a thing. But like this is planned parenthood, Like they

1263
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: have resources and they're not. They're not doing this, and

1264
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: they're they're doing this. I talked to a nurse who's

1265
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 1: a friend of mine a long time ago on this show,

1266
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: and he talked, you know, he was in nurstring COVID.

1267
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: He's gotten COVID twice I think, and like, you know,

1268
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 1: he was talking about how like yeah, he he said,

1269
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:29,560
Speaker 1: to be like thing I've always remember. It was like

1270
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: I've seen people die because I've seen people die because

1271
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: of staffing decisions. Yeah, and it's like it's this, it's

1272
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 1: this moral blackmail thing where it's like, in order to

1273
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: expect this thing needs to be done, we're not going

1274
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 1: to actually supervide you with enough resources to do it,

1275
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 1: and we're going to make you responsible for the consequences

1276
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:52,280
Speaker 1: of our actions. And yeah, it's it's grotesque. Yeah, and

1277
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: then that um, really it's just kind of like part

1278
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 1: of the trauma for the workers. And I'm not honest

1279
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,640
Speaker 1: to the patients for everyone in our communities because this

1280
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 1: literally everyone is um just like turning. Like we do

1281
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,639
Speaker 1: turn people away because pregnancy is a time sensitive issue

1282
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 1: and you know, you have to get in in a

1283
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: certain number of weeks in order to get you know,

1284
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,600
Speaker 1: the type of procedure that you want in order to

1285
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: get a procedure at all. And these are people that

1286
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 1: are often parents, the majority of people who have abortions

1287
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: or parents, um, and they have children, and they have

1288
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 1: jobs or they don't have like p t O and

1289
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: they live four hours away. So it's like how am

1290
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 1: I going to get to this appointment? So there's so

1291
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 1: many people that we have to refer. So it's it's

1292
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 1: so much on your soul to be on the phones

1293
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: and you speak to mother after mother, like a single

1294
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 1: mother or somebody who lost a partner or they are

1295
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, um, they got evicted, and you're referring them

1296
01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 1: to Detroit, which is an also so four or five

1297
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: hours away, and just to refer people to say I

1298
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: can't help you, try calling this place and to do

1299
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: that like multiple times in a row every day, and

1300
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: then you're like you're working seven hour days. It is

1301
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: really soul crushing because it feels like and like you

1302
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 1: tell yourself, like it's my you know, we don't have

1303
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,840
Speaker 1: the resources, we don't have the staff, we weren't prepared

1304
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 1: for this crisis. It's not on me, but it's very

1305
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: hard not to feel awful when you are turning people

1306
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,679
Speaker 1: away because you don't I don't know any I've probably

1307
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: turned like probably over a hundred people away on the

1308
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 1: phones and told them who to call. I don't know

1309
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: if they reach those places. I don't know if they

1310
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:41,720
Speaker 1: called those places. For all I know, they continue to

1311
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: hire risk pregnancy, and they might suffer health consequences or

1312
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: things that debilitate them for the rest of their life,

1313
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: things that make the children's lives worse. And I have

1314
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,640
Speaker 1: no way of knowing. So it's just very traumatic to

1315
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 1: constantly be hanging up on the phone with people and

1316
01:23:55,120 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 1: just like sending them into like just a desert. I

1317
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: think the hardest part two is that these phone calls

1318
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: aren't like two seconds long. They're not two minutes. When

1319
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 1: we tell when we answer the phones. Abortion appointments take

1320
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 1: about fifteen to twenty minutes to schedule, so this is

1321
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: a half an hour that you are getting to know

1322
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 1: an individual. A person, they tell you everything about their lives.

1323
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,600
Speaker 1: They tell you exactly what they're feeling, what they're afraid of,

1324
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: what they're going through with their families like um, what

1325
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 1: their financial situation is like. And then at the end

1326
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 1: when you tell them or at the beginning, which I

1327
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: do often just to let them know what they're getting

1328
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 1: themselves into. When you tell them that you're booking like

1329
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: three weeks out, four weeks out, you can just hear

1330
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: it in their voice that they are so scared and

1331
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: so desperate and there's nothing you can do about it

1332
01:24:55,560 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: because there's just not enough of us. There's not enough days,

1333
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 1: there's not enough hours in the day to see all

1334
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 1: of these patients. There is so much red tape that

1335
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: these patients have to go through to even get to

1336
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:10,640
Speaker 1: this appointment. There's a twenty four our phone consent and

1337
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 1: the State of Pennsylvania UM. If they miss that, they

1338
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:21,839
Speaker 1: can't be seen. And these are often like um depending

1339
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: on the time of the phone call. Some people work

1340
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: multiple jobs. They're like sleep they can't make the phone call.

1341
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:33,839
Speaker 1: They're sick, they're sick, they don't have working cell phones,

1342
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 1: or they're in a yeah, there in a situation where

1343
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,640
Speaker 1: they're like have intimate partner violence, so they can't be

1344
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 1: on the phone for that long without risking their personal safety.

1345
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 1: And it's just really traumatizing. And I know that it's

1346
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 1: really common on the left and with like pro abortion

1347
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: people to say like, you can't stop abortion, you can

1348
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:00,719
Speaker 1: only start save abortion. And I totally support the sentiment

1349
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 1: behind that, because people are going to get abortions no

1350
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: matter what. But people also need to think about the

1351
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 1: people who give up, because I have when I have

1352
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 1: been on the phone with someone and heard them give up. Yeah,

1353
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's it's traumatizing because like, you know

1354
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 1: that you gave them the information that broke them where

1355
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: they were. Just like when I'm like, Okay, you have

1356
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: to wait four weeks, you have to drive four hours,

1357
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 1: you have to do this, you have to pay this,

1358
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 1: you have to do that, and then just for them

1359
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:30,880
Speaker 1: to say, I'm sorry, I don't want to waste your

1360
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: time anymore. I just can't do this much right now.

1361
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: It's just too much. And just to hear they're just

1362
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: resignation because you know, I think I feel like, you know,

1363
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:44,560
Speaker 1: working in jobs, you might have heard people just like

1364
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 1: reach that moment where they hit their point, um, whatever

1365
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: their breaking point might be, whatever the context is, whatever

1366
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: the topic is. But like when it's your life and

1367
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 1: it's your health and it's your family and they're just like,

1368
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: this is my breaking point and witnessing and that that

1369
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: does happen. And it's a tragedy every time that somebody

1370
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,720
Speaker 1: abandons what they really want and their health and their

1371
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 1: well being and um, and it does happen. And that's

1372
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 1: why this is a tragedy that needs to stop. And

1373
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 1: I don't know when it's going to stop, because it

1374
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 1: just kind of seems like it's going to keep happening

1375
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: and keep going and going and going, in which case

1376
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: the trauma is going to like move, Like right now,

1377
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: we're like bearing the frunt of it, but it's gonna

1378
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: like radiate from us in our patients and we're going

1379
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 1: to see the ripple effects across the whole generational trauma

1380
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 1: that's going to continue for multiple decades. Yeah, And it's

1381
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean, just on a basic level, it's not fair

1382
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,560
Speaker 1: that even you have to deal with this like this,

1383
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 1: This shouldn't be happening at all like that, And it's

1384
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: it's that, it's that like all of the evil of

1385
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:53,680
Speaker 1: the American settler state falling on like a bunch of

1386
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 1: people who have nothing and then a bunch of workers

1387
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: who are expected to show up and have to deal

1388
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 1: with all of their all of their trauma to every

1389
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:05,719
Speaker 1: day and it's just like a trauma to loser. Yeah,

1390
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: and it's like flags and but and then we had

1391
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,559
Speaker 1: a union rally recently and uh, we were very open

1392
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: and talking about how a lot of us work two

1393
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 1: jobs and and we have staff members who donate plasma,

1394
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 1: so it's like we're doing this on top of a

1395
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: second job, and donating are like bodily fluids. I spoke

1396
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 1: at this rally and I was like, we're literally giving

1397
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 1: our flesh, blood and tears to this whole thing. Um

1398
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: because it's just we love it. We love all of

1399
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: our patients, We care about the work. We really want

1400
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 1: to make sure that our patients are going to be okay.

1401
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: And I think that's why we do it, and also

1402
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:56,560
Speaker 1: how we can justify feeling this way day day in

1403
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 1: and day out. I wanna I think moved from this

1404
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 1: to talking about the contract negotiation process, because like, okay,

1405
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 1: it is not okay for anyone to have like a

1406
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: fourteen month long contract negotiation process. It's especially not okay

1407
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 1: for you to have to do this. So yeah, can

1408
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: we can we talk about what Plant like what Plant

1409
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: parents has been doing and would be better at answering

1410
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 1: this because she's on our bargaining committee. I'm on the

1411
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:31,280
Speaker 1: bargaining team, Yam. I've been doing this for fourteen months

1412
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: and like just oh god, I'm so sick of these meetings.

1413
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm so sick of them, sick of the talking to

1414
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 1: their lawyer. Um, it's been long. They've been just um

1415
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: really just dragging themselves. It's like carrying a dead body,

1416
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: just like like it's like come on, come on, are you?

1417
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 1: Are you okay? We're gonna We're gonna get there, you know,

1418
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: like I'm We're just like dragging them, and they are

1419
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 1: afraid of everything. Everything is we gotta see, we gotta check,

1420
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta look into it, and then you

1421
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: never hear back, or maybe you hear back like three

1422
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 1: months four months later. Um, they constantly want to bring

1423
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: in a mediator, constantly and it's like there's nothing to mediate,

1424
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 1: like what are we going to immediate? You telling us

1425
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 1: that you gotta back to us, like what's there to

1426
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 1: mediate there? Um, And they're like it will move it along.

1427
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 1: And it's like yes, because they're doing the job for you.

1428
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,519
Speaker 1: We want you to do it. We want you to

1429
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 1: have answers, you to figure it out. You're the bosses,

1430
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: you make the money, you're one running the organization. Um. Sorry,

1431
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: I start getting salty. The bargaining team has has um.

1432
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 1: Being on the bargaining team has really nurtured my rage. Um.

1433
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: It's been very exhausting. And I know we're going to

1434
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: win a good contract because we are badasses and I

1435
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: think we're really strong union and really strong team. Um,

1436
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 1: and we need we need a livable wage because we're

1437
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:09,640
Speaker 1: we're getting pommelled. So UM, it's been really frustrating. I

1438
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 1: guess it's like in short, it's really drawn out, frustrating, disrespectful.

1439
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 1: I feel like my time has been disrespected. You know,

1440
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 1: I turn up every day, um for for my employer

1441
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:26,400
Speaker 1: in the clinic. I'm an excellent worker and uh and

1442
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: they just waste like two three hours of my evening constantly.

1443
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,519
Speaker 1: I could have been on my porch drinking tea or something,

1444
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, something relaxing. Yeah, And I guess like

1445
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 1: any other person, like every every day that they don't

1446
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 1: like sign a contract is another day they get to

1447
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 1: get away with not paying you, not bringing more staff.

1448
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 1: And it's and they're constantly trying to get delay contract

1449
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 1: negotiations to where they're like, oh, if you do this,

1450
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,800
Speaker 1: we can we'll give you a couple of pennies and

1451
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: then we won't make any you won't be able to

1452
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 1: make any economic changes until the next fiscal year. And

1453
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 1: it's like, do you think I want to wait till

1454
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 1: next July? I have a life plans. Yeah, I mean

1455
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about on the show before that

1456
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 1: like one of the one of the most common ways

1457
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: that one of the most common ways that unions fall apart,

1458
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: and one of the things that corporations do and n

1459
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 1: g O s due to crush them is by trying

1460
01:32:24,160 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: to make sure that the first contract fails. And yeah,

1461
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:32,320
Speaker 1: it's a union busting thing, and it's for tesque especially

1462
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: that it's like okay, like with capitalist firms, like yeah,

1463
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 1: you expect them to be union busting, right, Like that

1464
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 1: that's their job. Their job is to ruthlessly special lab

1465
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:43,599
Speaker 1: but it's like this is an NGO, Like their job

1466
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: is to provide healthcare for people. They're supposed to be

1467
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 1: oppressive organization. They're still doing this and it's I don't know,

1468
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:58,640
Speaker 1: it seems just really grim. Um it is grim and

1469
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't give a lot of hope too, I think

1470
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: just everyone living in this in this country, because it's like, okay,

1471
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:12,599
Speaker 1: so there's been a a uh, I was gonna say attack,

1472
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: but like attack doesn't feel appropriate. Like they have gutted

1473
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:21,479
Speaker 1: abortion access, hurting everybody, UM, causing like violence to people,

1474
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,880
Speaker 1: and who do you look to? So you would think

1475
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 1: that you would look to these progressive abortion related organizations

1476
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 1: like Planned Parenthood, National Abortion Federation, UM, narrow, but all

1477
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 1: of them have nothing to give and nothing. They're they're you.

1478
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 1: You only hear bad news. You hear them shutting down,

1479
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: you hear them union busting, you hear them UM requiring

1480
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: ridiculous regulations that aren't even necessary, and it's it's just

1481
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: there's no they don't do anything to inspire hope. So

1482
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 1: it's like, well you need you know, like UM, prison

1483
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 1: culture and Mary Mikaba says like, you know, hope as

1484
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 1: a discipline, So I feel like a lot of us

1485
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: are always looking to like a place to exercise our hope,

1486
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:11,600
Speaker 1: and you're you're not going to get that here with

1487
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: with some of these organizations. I think you are going

1488
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: to get it in I think the rebro unions, because

1489
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of us and I think

1490
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 1: there were I think that we are working our little

1491
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: hearts out, and I think you're also going to get

1492
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 1: it with some of these other organizations like the abortion

1493
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:29,480
Speaker 1: like abortion funds and some of the practical support organizations

1494
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:31,839
Speaker 1: that are really like getting on the level of patients

1495
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 1: who are patients for former patients and are like, we're

1496
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 1: going to get people abortions. I think that's where hope

1497
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:44,559
Speaker 1: is right now. Um, but not with our employer. Yeah,

1498
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 1: I want to say, I guess there's some of your

1499
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: things I wanted to ask about was sort of on

1500
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 1: a macro level. I mean, just everyone we've talked to

1501
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 1: has talked about how like the ability to get an

1502
01:34:55,520 --> 01:35:00,519
Speaker 1: abortion is based on like a pretty small a number

1503
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,880
Speaker 1: of people who are like some you know, people who

1504
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 1: are abortion who are escorts, who are who are like

1505
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 1: a lot of time volunteers, or it's people who are

1506
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 1: like you two, who are being like horrifically underpaid to

1507
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: you the actual work of this. And I was wondering

1508
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 1: what you two think that, like the like the way

1509
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: this like I don't know, I guess, like the way

1510
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:29,040
Speaker 1: everyone has sort of just run ragged even keeping the system.

1511
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 1: How it was like what role that played on a

1512
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:33,840
Speaker 1: sort of macro level in terms of why ROW was

1513
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: like destroyed in the first place, and what that's done

1514
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:40,240
Speaker 1: to the sort of the broader movement. I mean, no,

1515
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 1: they didn't do anything to prevent it. Yeah, Like it's

1516
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: just what have we seen? What show of force or

1517
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:53,679
Speaker 1: strength or commitment to abortion access have we seen in ever? Honestly,

1518
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:59,080
Speaker 1: like I can't even think other than like some loss

1519
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 1: or some legal wins we've celebrated, Like I do remember

1520
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 1: whole woman's health be Hellerstead, Um, what was that was

1521
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 1: like a win and we were excited and we were like,

1522
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 1: this is good news, and that's honestly the last and

1523
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 1: now again that was just a court decision, so it

1524
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 1: was like not in our hands really anyways. So I

1525
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 1: just either so little, there's so little to work with,

1526
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:29,639
Speaker 1: and so a little look at outside of I think

1527
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 1: just some really excellent organizing from workers and practical support groups.

1528
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:39,160
Speaker 1: And I really think that our community has been fabulous

1529
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:43,000
Speaker 1: this last whole like month. Be All of the support

1530
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: that we've gotten, UM for our like personal morale has

1531
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 1: been through like friends or local businesses or like people

1532
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: who know people who um like are there to offer

1533
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: us like an ear, a hand, a cup of coffee. Um.

1534
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: Some of our doctors bring in bagels. Uh, this is

1535
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: like from their own pockets. Um, we'll bring in bagels.

1536
01:37:08,360 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 1: We've had like people donate and organized to bring in

1537
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 1: like coffee and stuff. UM. I know that Crystal was

1538
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:18,720
Speaker 1: receiving a lot of donations herself, UM that we all

1539
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 1: use to buy ourselves, like food, drinks, stuff for people

1540
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:28,560
Speaker 1: are just like sending me money for them. Yeah, and

1541
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: I thought that was really great. But I also noticed

1542
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 1: that it came from outside sources and not from internal sources. UM.

1543
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: These are all other people outside in our community who

1544
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: understand and value the work with that we're doing, and

1545
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: like actively listen for what we need and what we're

1546
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: asking for. Um. And I think that there's a lot

1547
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: to be said about that. Yeah, Honestly, the most hope,

1548
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 1: and the most support has come from just like regular people.

1549
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 1: You don't really see it from anyone with anything any

1550
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:09,479
Speaker 1: actual money or power. And on that note, this has

1551
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 1: been Naked Happen Here. You can find us on Twitter

1552
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 1: and Instagram That Happen Here pod, and you can find

1553
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:18,560
Speaker 1: Crystal and Elizabeth Union at PPWP Union on Twitter or

1554
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: for part two of this interview and until then, goodbye.

1555
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to Dick It Happened Here, a podcast about n

1556
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,680
Speaker 1: g O is portraying the working class and casting reproductive

1557
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 1: autonomy to the wolves. I'm your host, Christopher Wong, and

1558
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:46,600
Speaker 1: this is part two of my interview with Crystal and

1559
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:50,280
Speaker 1: Elizabeth from UEI Local six nine six. They are once

1560
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 1: again representing only themselves in the union and not planned parenthood. Yes,

1561
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 1: so let's get back to the interview. Okay, should should I?

1562
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 1: Should I do a incredibly long and drawn out metaphor

1563
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: about migrant workers in China? Go for it? Yeah? Okay,

1564
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna, I'm gonn I'm gonna, I'm gonna do

1565
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 1: a man for it. Okay. So alright, alright, So one

1566
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 1: of one of the sort of engines of Chinese economic

1567
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 1: growth for a long time is that China's economy is

1568
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:20,640
Speaker 1: built on migrant labor. There are I think it's like

1569
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 1: two fifty million migrant workers. It's like like if you

1570
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 1: put them together as a country. I think when I

1571
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:28,719
Speaker 1: got into ninety, if you put together as a country,

1572
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 1: would be like the fourth largest country in the world.

1573
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:35,040
Speaker 1: And this was able to happen, you know, and like

1574
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 1: the sort of like the secret of the Chinese miracle

1575
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: is that it was a bunch of workers who were

1576
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:44,240
Speaker 1: exploited horribly and they also had a lot A lot

1577
01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 1: of these workers are coming from the countryside, and there's

1578
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:49,719
Speaker 1: still sort of like kinds of forms of like communal

1579
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,040
Speaker 1: landownership that are left over from the socialist period there.

1580
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 1: And so what happens is you have these sort of

1581
01:39:55,439 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like kind of socialist collective air

1582
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,599
Speaker 1: like collective land ownership stuff that's like basically subsidizing these

1583
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 1: workers so that they can move into the cities. And

1584
01:40:05,200 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 1: this means that their bosses have to pay like that

1585
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,560
Speaker 1: their their bosses can pay them less because part of

1586
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:13,720
Speaker 1: their income and part of their support network is coming

1587
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 1: from something that's outside of the outside of the such

1588
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 1: a system. And that's what this reminds me of where

1589
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 1: it's like this stuff is happening because of this incredible

1590
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 1: community mobilization and like that's where the support is coming from.

1591
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,439
Speaker 1: But that also means that like the actual like the

1592
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 1: organizations who are getting the most money and the most

1593
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 1: resources and who are like you know, who are your bosses,

1594
01:40:34,280 --> 01:40:36,200
Speaker 1: don't have to do that because it's it's you know,

1595
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 1: And this is the same thing with your labor to

1596
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:44,600
Speaker 1: where it's it's you have these these like there's this

1597
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 1: way in which solidarity is mobilized as a way to

1598
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:49,799
Speaker 1: sort of like stop gap the fact that these groups

1599
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:51,640
Speaker 1: don't want to pay people and don't want to give

1600
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: people the resources that are necessary. And so because it

1601
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 1: has to get done, people will, like people will do it,

1602
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 1: and people will people will donate stuff, people will help support,

1603
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: people will do this work. But the thing that it

1604
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 1: winds up doing is that these people are never actually

1605
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:06,400
Speaker 1: forced to see the full consequences of their actions. They

1606
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: never never forced to like actually see what what the

1607
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:11,560
Speaker 1: staff and decisions like does what what the fact that

1608
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 1: they don't pay you anything like actually does they don't

1609
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,640
Speaker 1: They never have to face it because people are like

1610
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:20,800
Speaker 1: desperately trying to patch the boat together so it doesn't sink. Yeah,

1611
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot, like what would it be

1612
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:26,600
Speaker 1: like if you know, one of our higher up managers

1613
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: turned away all of these patients and it was them, Yeah,

1614
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: what if they knew what it was like? I remember

1615
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 1: picking up the phone a couple of weeks ago, and

1616
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:39,880
Speaker 1: the only thing that I heard when I picked up

1617
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 1: that phone was a blood curdling scream, like this was

1618
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 1: like a scream out of a horror movie. And then

1619
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:54,560
Speaker 1: there were two thoughts and then dead side, And I

1620
01:41:55,000 --> 01:42:00,320
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to that person. I don't know

1621
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 1: if they were able to call back. I didn't call

1622
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:06,760
Speaker 1: back because if that person is in danger right now,

1623
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to subject them to any more danger. Um.

1624
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,640
Speaker 1: There's a reason that when we dial out it's the

1625
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:20,040
Speaker 1: restricted or block numbers, But it's moments like that that

1626
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 1: stick with you. And the fact that we're having more

1627
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:25,360
Speaker 1: and more of these moments where like every other call

1628
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 1: is not like exactly to that level, but like emotionally

1629
01:42:31,200 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 1: still sticks with you. And it's just for some additional um,

1630
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 1: just like to kind of like build out this kind

1631
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:43,240
Speaker 1: of like misogynistic context that we're working in it's actually

1632
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:48,879
Speaker 1: super common to get people calling in for abortion services,

1633
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,639
Speaker 1: like in the middle of a fight with their partner. Um.

1634
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:56,720
Speaker 1: I have had had like men like actively obstructing the

1635
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:01,560
Speaker 1: caller and you know, I'm trying to schedule them, and

1636
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 1: they'll have me on speaker phone and everything and you

1637
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:08,080
Speaker 1: were training me to we and I was like, are

1638
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 1: you able to get to like another place because I

1639
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,720
Speaker 1: can't hear you over him and you know, and he's like,

1640
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything, and I'm like I just need

1641
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:19,760
Speaker 1: to be able to hear you, and like, um, yeah,

1642
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,640
Speaker 1: So you do you get that? Because that's you know,

1643
01:43:23,360 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 1: because there's people want abortions for every reason under this sun,

1644
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:30,320
Speaker 1: and it's totally fine. Um, people get abortions for lots

1645
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:33,639
Speaker 1: of different reasons, but a very common reason is because

1646
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 1: the partner sucks and he's a piece of ship. He

1647
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: was abusive and they got to get away from him.

1648
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: And that's unfortunately common. And we're on the phone getting that.

1649
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,479
Speaker 1: Sometimes we get to meet them in real life too,

1650
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 1: and that's always super fun. I always say that, I

1651
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 1: say to patients constantly that boyfriends either go only go

1652
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 1: one of two ways when we meet them in our clinic.

1653
01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:01,680
Speaker 1: They're either wonderful and fantastic and very supportive, um or

1654
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:08,759
Speaker 1: they're just the worst. And I've had patients boyfriends who literally,

1655
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:12,479
Speaker 1: while this person is mid procedure will be like, you're

1656
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 1: being dramatic and you need to stop. And they'll take

1657
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:21,719
Speaker 1: a phone call yeah or something. Let's be playing games

1658
01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 1: on their phone and they won't look at anybody. Um

1659
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:28,960
Speaker 1: or they'll actively leave their partner there. And these are

1660
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 1: people that like were their rides. Oh yeah, we've had

1661
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:35,080
Speaker 1: people get abandoned. Yeah. Yeah, they'll just be like I'm done,

1662
01:44:35,320 --> 01:44:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm bored, and then they'll just leave, and it's just

1663
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 1: so frustrating. A lot to deal with. We have a

1664
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 1: lot to deal with the staff. And I always tell

1665
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:50,560
Speaker 1: people because I trained um staff at the clinic, and

1666
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm always like, we see everything here and when I

1667
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:55,519
Speaker 1: say I say that I need it, we see literally

1668
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 1: everything like you just And I'm sure there are other

1669
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:04,960
Speaker 1: similar health provisions like health services that it's kind of similar.

1670
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 1: We just kind of see everything, um but yeah, we

1671
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 1: we literally see everything because people when people come in

1672
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:16,280
Speaker 1: for an abortion appointment, UM, Like, we don't just talk

1673
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:18,759
Speaker 1: about the procedure, you know, we do birth control counseling,

1674
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:25,840
Speaker 1: STD screening, UM, we provide resources for housing, legal support, UM, therapy,

1675
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 1: finding therapists, and we just we we do so much

1676
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 1: because we're providing a comprehensive health care service. And again,

1677
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:36,559
Speaker 1: like something that we tell patients is that they can

1678
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 1: expect to be here for like four hours, six or

1679
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:43,439
Speaker 1: five hours. Yeah, it depends on the individual patients or

1680
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:48,280
Speaker 1: individual needs UM and what services we can provide for them.

1681
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,840
Speaker 1: And sometimes patients need a lot of TLC and we're

1682
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:56,120
Speaker 1: not going to rush that. UM. They're going to get

1683
01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 1: the services that they need and they want, and we're

1684
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:00,920
Speaker 1: going to do it on their time because they're very

1685
01:46:01,160 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 1: but they're very fragile and that's not the time to

1686
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 1: run times through. They're not always so sometimes they're fragile,

1687
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 1: and like sometimes they're like let's get this done, you know,

1688
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,320
Speaker 1: I just I just want to the whole range of

1689
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:19,800
Speaker 1: we get. We get. Yeah, but sometimes they're very fragile. Yeah.

1690
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:23,960
Speaker 1: We have had some really confident patients that I really

1691
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 1: like talking to though that they're very yeah, like ready

1692
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 1: to get it over with and are like thanks for

1693
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:33,479
Speaker 1: being here, and they just make my day. I love

1694
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:35,360
Speaker 1: it when we're like, oh, how because we have to

1695
01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, we have to do like make sure that

1696
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:39,240
Speaker 1: they're not being coerced in everything. And it's like, so,

1697
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, how are you feeling about everything? And they're like,

1698
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:43,839
Speaker 1: I feel great, I can't wait to not be pregnant,

1699
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:46,920
Speaker 1: and they're like dancing. Obviously that's nice, but you know,

1700
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:50,040
Speaker 1: in reality, a lot of times when we ask someone

1701
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 1: how they're feeling and what's going on, we're like the

1702
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:55,719
Speaker 1: first person to have asked them that in like two years.

1703
01:46:56,840 --> 01:46:59,720
Speaker 1: So then we're like opening up a space, which I'm

1704
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:03,959
Speaker 1: glad we get to do. UM. I love working with patients,

1705
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:10,120
Speaker 1: I love the services we provide. UM. But it's it's

1706
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:12,160
Speaker 1: what what sucks and what's a failure is that I'm

1707
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:15,000
Speaker 1: like the first health care provider to like ask them

1708
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:19,960
Speaker 1: how they're feeling and actually care and like years, like

1709
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:22,680
Speaker 1: we really get something. We get some patients who have

1710
01:47:22,840 --> 01:47:25,240
Speaker 1: been like shoot up and spit out by the health

1711
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,160
Speaker 1: care system, and no one's ever given a ship and

1712
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:30,360
Speaker 1: we all, we all are very good at giving a ship.

1713
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:35,879
Speaker 1: So um yeah, it really seems like just like everything

1714
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:39,360
Speaker 1: that's wrong with this country gets thrown at like you

1715
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:45,320
Speaker 1: specifically because this is like like every every sort of

1716
01:47:45,439 --> 01:47:47,560
Speaker 1: like every bit of racism, every bit of sexism, like

1717
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:51,880
Speaker 1: every like failure of the health care system, like every

1718
01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 1: every time, like and it's not even like everything on

1719
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:57,760
Speaker 1: a political level and on a social level that goes

1720
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:04,840
Speaker 1: wrong with people's lives. Yeah, yeah, I think it comes

1721
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 1: up a lot with stigmatized healthcare, um, like abortion and

1722
01:48:08,280 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 1: then also hormontherapy I imagine was pretty similar. Is you're

1723
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:15,240
Speaker 1: facing a lot of obstacles that are put up by

1724
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,920
Speaker 1: the communities, the institution, and the health care system. The

1725
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:23,280
Speaker 1: employer is like your family, there's a Remember we did

1726
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:27,519
Speaker 1: an interview with a promotion activist from Mexico. One of

1727
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:30,280
Speaker 1: the things that she was talking about was, um, she

1728
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:34,920
Speaker 1: called it social decriminalization. Oh is it kind of like

1729
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:38,200
Speaker 1: destigmatizing Like yeah, yeah, but it's like like I think

1730
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 1: she didn't talk about it a huge amount, but it

1731
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,599
Speaker 1: seemed like the concept behind it. It was like, Okay,

1732
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 1: so you have legal you have like legal criminalization, but

1733
01:48:45,320 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 1: then yeah, like social stigmatization means that it's still not

1734
01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 1: really legal because there's there's like there's you know, there's

1735
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:53,640
Speaker 1: like social laws against the rights. You have to like

1736
01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:56,360
Speaker 1: deal with both and that that struck me as like

1737
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 1: a really I don't know, is it really powerful? Like

1738
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 1: way to think about it, I guess, is it kind

1739
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: of like a moral thing where people think like it's

1740
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,320
Speaker 1: not okay to get an abortion, so you get like

1741
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 1: that pressure and that yeah, and I think and also

1742
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's not it's it's it's the pressure

1743
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:13,920
Speaker 1: like applied on a person from just like you know,

1744
01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:15,800
Speaker 1: like I mean in Mexico is a lot of likely

1745
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:17,559
Speaker 1: people who grow up Catholic, right, But also like it's

1746
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:19,559
Speaker 1: the pressure from your family, is pressure from your friends,

1747
01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:21,560
Speaker 1: it's a pressure from everyone around you. And you have

1748
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:27,800
Speaker 1: to like socially like legal because Crystal has been doing

1749
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:29,680
Speaker 1: this work longer than I have, Like I said, I've

1750
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 1: only been working at our current job for a year,

1751
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 1: which I love. UM. But definitely when I started UM,

1752
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 1: there were people in my life that I didn't think,

1753
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:44,760
Speaker 1: we're going to get weird about it because I know

1754
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 1: a lot of liberal people. Most of all of my

1755
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:54,120
Speaker 1: friends are very liberal, very open pro choice, like very

1756
01:49:54,520 --> 01:49:59,360
Speaker 1: union friendly. And immediately I noticed that when I started

1757
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:04,640
Speaker 1: talking happily about abortions, people would get really quiet and

1758
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:10,120
Speaker 1: really awkward. Um, and they would be like that's great.

1759
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:12,280
Speaker 1: I'm happy for you. But then that was like it

1760
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:15,320
Speaker 1: like I couldn't and I'd be like no, but like

1761
01:50:15,439 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 1: abortions and then they're great, They're great. People need them.

1762
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:23,519
Speaker 1: It's an essential service. And so I just upped up

1763
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 1: the anti more and I said about it a lot more.

1764
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:31,920
Speaker 1: This is what I gotta do, gotta weed out the week,

1765
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:35,640
Speaker 1: Like if you're uncomfortable with my job job, I'm not

1766
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: going to not talk about it with you. But yeah,

1767
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 1: that is a component to like also on top of

1768
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:44,080
Speaker 1: literally everything else, like um, you know, like how hard

1769
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,240
Speaker 1: the job is and how then we gotta like rally

1770
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:50,000
Speaker 1: as a union and get better wages and and then

1771
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: we can't even sometimes talk about it because because of stigma,

1772
01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:58,360
Speaker 1: like with friends or family, like I can't talk about

1773
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:00,719
Speaker 1: my parents or I can't talk with my parents about

1774
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:04,000
Speaker 1: my job. So it's just like this whole big part

1775
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:05,799
Speaker 1: of my life because I'm pretty much like an abortion

1776
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 1: access activist and I just can't talk about it and

1777
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:11,639
Speaker 1: with them, which is just you know, it's it would

1778
01:51:11,640 --> 01:51:13,439
Speaker 1: be nice if I could, but I can't, and I

1779
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:16,280
Speaker 1: just kind of deal with it. And then also um,

1780
01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 1: even tiny normal situations like getting a haircut or getting

1781
01:51:21,080 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 1: an uber. It's people ask you what you do all

1782
01:51:24,240 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: the time. I lie every time. But that's a decision

1783
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:31,320
Speaker 1: you have to make because sometimes I lie and sometimes

1784
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I'm like, I'm gonna

1785
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:35,840
Speaker 1: tell the truth, and it's like a gamble because I've

1786
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:38,360
Speaker 1: told the truth before and then an uber driver starts

1787
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,719
Speaker 1: praying for me. And then I've told the truth before

1788
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:43,840
Speaker 1: and had someone um like open up to me and

1789
01:51:43,880 --> 01:51:45,920
Speaker 1: then we have a great conversation. And then I've told

1790
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,680
Speaker 1: the truth before and had really awkward conversations were like

1791
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:51,400
Speaker 1: I support abortion. I think some people have too many

1792
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,040
Speaker 1: and I don't. And it's like, why are you telling

1793
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 1: me to get out of here? Um? Yeah, this was

1794
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:00,120
Speaker 1: a decision that I made for myself personally because of this.

1795
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 1: One time I took an uber to work and I

1796
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,080
Speaker 1: mentioned what I did and then that guy, um, she

1797
01:52:07,160 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 1: started like talking about me to the antis in front

1798
01:52:10,720 --> 01:52:16,080
Speaker 1: of our job and they were like talking about it

1799
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:18,200
Speaker 1: was it was actually it was a woman. It was

1800
01:52:18,360 --> 01:52:21,800
Speaker 1: a it was a female uber driver. I mentioned this

1801
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 1: to her, UM, and she went up and was like,

1802
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:28,000
Speaker 1: I think that like what you guys are doing. It's

1803
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:31,479
Speaker 1: like she was talking to the anti specifically, she was like,

1804
01:52:31,560 --> 01:52:33,439
Speaker 1: what you're doing is too aggressive. You need to buy

1805
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:37,479
Speaker 1: the building next door. Oh my god, set up shop

1806
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:40,560
Speaker 1: there and make it less antagonizing so people want to

1807
01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 1: listen to you. And then immediately in the group chat,

1808
01:52:43,320 --> 01:52:45,400
Speaker 1: everybody was like, who's talking to the antis? And I'm like,

1809
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:50,000
Speaker 1: I just mentioned that I worked there. Um, it was

1810
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:52,439
Speaker 1: just a lot. So after that, I was like, on

1811
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:54,640
Speaker 1: my way to work at the very least, I'm just

1812
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 1: not going to talk about it. I'm gonna be like,

1813
01:52:57,280 --> 01:53:02,000
Speaker 1: I work at a doctor's office downtown. It's like risk assessment. Yeah.

1814
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:05,080
Speaker 1: I feel like the anti's learned my name by listening

1815
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:07,160
Speaker 1: for the uber drivers and I've got uber drivers. They're like,

1816
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 1: who are you? What's your name? And I'm like, I'm

1817
01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 1: not going to tell you because there's a dude standing

1818
01:53:11,479 --> 01:53:16,280
Speaker 1: there that wants to follow me. So you're gonna deal

1819
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:19,320
Speaker 1: with that aubrew driver. Yeah, we gotta switch up patterns

1820
01:53:19,360 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: when we come into work sometimes too, And I do

1821
01:53:23,320 --> 01:53:26,240
Speaker 1: what I actually started, Um, when I call an uber

1822
01:53:26,320 --> 01:53:28,880
Speaker 1: to work because I don't have a car all the

1823
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:32,320
Speaker 1: time because I don't get paid that much. But when

1824
01:53:32,360 --> 01:53:36,719
Speaker 1: I have to uber to work. Um, I've started getting

1825
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:41,559
Speaker 1: dropped off like somewhere else and just waking because it's

1826
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 1: just too too many problems, too much Like got I

1827
01:53:45,800 --> 01:53:48,160
Speaker 1: get dropped off at like a different location, like a

1828
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:51,080
Speaker 1: couple of blocks away from work, at a different spot usually,

1829
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,680
Speaker 1: and then I just walk in, Like if you you

1830
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:56,360
Speaker 1: might just want to go to work and drink your

1831
01:53:56,400 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 1: coffee and you have like your uber driver joined in

1832
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:05,200
Speaker 1: the protest outside. Let's like and it's worse because they

1833
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:07,400
Speaker 1: know they picked you up, they know where you live,

1834
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 1: and they know your name, your name. They want to

1835
01:54:10,880 --> 01:54:17,680
Speaker 1: shout your name out the door. It's like because yeah,

1836
01:54:17,680 --> 01:54:19,600
Speaker 1: the protesters learned my name and they like chant my

1837
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 1: name and we're like I'll walk by and like the

1838
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:24,240
Speaker 1: whispering my name, I'm like, what is this? This is

1839
01:54:24,360 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 1: kind of this is kind of kinky, but like yeah,

1840
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 1: and we decide that they don't actually know who you are.

1841
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:34,440
Speaker 1: They just like everybody with banks, yeah, yeah, yeah, So

1842
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: for the listeners, I have like pretty blunt banks. Yeah,

1843
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:40,640
Speaker 1: but I'm not the only worker in the building obviously

1844
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:42,680
Speaker 1: who has banks. But so everyone in the building it's

1845
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:46,960
Speaker 1: like Crystal Crystal, I think everybody with banks, what's your

1846
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:53,280
Speaker 1: worker named Crystal. I guess that's reassuring, but also bad

1847
01:54:53,400 --> 01:54:56,640
Speaker 1: for other people with banks because they might get killed. Yeah,

1848
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: it's like funny, but not funny. I'm he got We

1849
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:05,600
Speaker 1: try to make light of it real we have to. Yeah,

1850
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:07,440
Speaker 1: So the other thing I still wanted to ask about

1851
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:11,040
Speaker 1: was Crystal. Yeah, you've had like the bosses doing disciplinary

1852
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:14,160
Speaker 1: action for stuff that you've been doing in terms of

1853
01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:15,880
Speaker 1: unions stuff. Were gonna talk about that a little bit

1854
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:19,360
Speaker 1: technically pre disciplinary, but I mean, like what does it matter,

1855
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:22,320
Speaker 1: because like the point is the same, is is intimidation.

1856
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:27,360
Speaker 1: It's very easy to do, is to get your lawyer,

1857
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 1: get your HR and have them talk to someone and

1858
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:32,680
Speaker 1: then everybody knows about it because everybody talks at work,

1859
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:37,240
Speaker 1: and bad gas travels fast and UM then they and

1860
01:55:37,680 --> 01:55:41,240
Speaker 1: the whole idea is to to scare people into not

1861
01:55:41,400 --> 01:55:46,920
Speaker 1: talking to reporters, not talking to UM people about what's

1862
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:51,680
Speaker 1: going on. And I feel like it's difficult to talk

1863
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:55,880
Speaker 1: about what's been happening like this is like I keep

1864
01:55:55,920 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 1: saying it, it's a it's a national health crisis. It's

1865
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:02,680
Speaker 1: a disaster. It's it's a tidal wave, it's a hurricane,

1866
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:06,160
Speaker 1: and it's generational trauma. We're using all of these words,

1867
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 1: and then like I feel like being I'm pressured into

1868
01:56:08,840 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: not even talking about it because I'm talking about everything.

1869
01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm talking about how we're understaffed, I'm talking about how

1870
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: we're seeing patients from all over. I'm talking about, um

1871
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 1: how how traumatizing it is. And for whatever reason, it's

1872
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 1: just more comforting for some of these organizations to hide

1873
01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:35,320
Speaker 1: under the table with their lawyer and just like shaking

1874
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:37,360
Speaker 1: their boots and say like we could be sued for this,

1875
01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:39,440
Speaker 1: and we could be sued for that, and what if

1876
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:41,680
Speaker 1: that happens? What if this happens? And like for me,

1877
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:43,920
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you know what, what what if someone

1878
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 1: dies because we can't get them in and they can't

1879
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 1: get to us because of legislation and there being no

1880
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: health care infrastructure because part of healthcare is also getting

1881
01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 1: to the appointment. UM. So it's like that that exists

1882
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 1: and like people are suffering because of it. Like I

1883
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:05,840
Speaker 1: just can't keep my mouth shut about that. And I

1884
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:08,280
Speaker 1: definitely feel like as like somebody a member on the

1885
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:12,200
Speaker 1: bargaining team, and I also am ced our rally. UM,

1886
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 1: I feel like there's been a lot of pressure on

1887
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:18,000
Speaker 1: me and my big mouth. Um, I feel like they

1888
01:57:18,040 --> 01:57:21,360
Speaker 1: were trying to intimidate me and scare me. And I'm

1889
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: blessed for a couple of reasons. Number one, um my dad,

1890
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 1: who is otherwise conservative and doesn't support anything that I do,

1891
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:32,840
Speaker 1: but he was a union stewart and growing up, I

1892
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:35,400
Speaker 1: would see him resolving conflict as a union stewart, and

1893
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:39,560
Speaker 1: that was very influential and inspirational to me because it

1894
01:57:39,720 --> 01:57:42,120
Speaker 1: really instilled some good values, even though we don't have

1895
01:57:42,520 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 1: the same values obviously, but and you didn't, but there's that,

1896
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:50,200
Speaker 1: Like I I developed like a strong sense of labor

1897
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:54,720
Speaker 1: rights and labor activism from him, and then too, my

1898
01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:59,480
Speaker 1: first career choice was a middle school teacher, so I've

1899
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:02,080
Speaker 1: taught seven in the eighth grade for about seven years.

1900
01:58:02,280 --> 01:58:04,920
Speaker 1: So like, literally nothing scares me, because after you've talked

1901
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:09,120
Speaker 1: to a cafeteria full of a d twenty thirteen year olds,

1902
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 1: it's like that's it. That's like the scariest thing ever. Um.

1903
01:58:13,160 --> 01:58:18,840
Speaker 1: So I'm not really afraid of the bullying and the intimidation. Um,

1904
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,400
Speaker 1: which is good because it definitely is very effective and

1905
01:58:22,440 --> 01:58:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people would be pissing themselves

1906
01:58:27,040 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 1: but um, I'm pissing uself a little bit, but I'm fine, Um,

1907
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:36,200
Speaker 1: I have a second job after all that, Like that's

1908
01:58:36,280 --> 01:58:40,720
Speaker 1: like fun, you have to work another job. Like they're

1909
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 1: like one of the things I noticed is they're they're

1910
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:44,800
Speaker 1: doing they're doing the working you for thirty five hours

1911
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:51,480
Speaker 1: and not forty because yeah, benefits. I don't know, like

1912
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:53,440
Speaker 1: the impression that I get from this, and I think

1913
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:57,280
Speaker 1: that makes you really angry is like it really feels

1914
01:58:57,320 --> 01:58:59,800
Speaker 1: like like the like how worried they are about being suited.

1915
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:01,840
Speaker 1: It feels like like the fact that that's sort of

1916
01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:05,160
Speaker 1: like the basis of all this, and just like they

1917
01:59:06,120 --> 01:59:09,640
Speaker 1: the they're behaving as if they've already lost and they're

1918
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:11,880
Speaker 1: trying to sort of like like claw and hold onto

1919
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:15,200
Speaker 1: whatever they have. But it's like if if if you're

1920
01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:18,320
Speaker 1: if you're fighting from the position of we have already lost,

1921
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:20,760
Speaker 1: you're you're just gonna keep losing. And it's like and

1922
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:24,520
Speaker 1: and and you know it's not just that it's like okay,

1923
01:59:24,600 --> 01:59:27,160
Speaker 1: like if they were just doing that, but then you know,

1924
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:32,440
Speaker 1: like not passing, like not literally forcing everyone else who's

1925
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:35,040
Speaker 1: working with them to also be in the same sort

1926
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:36,760
Speaker 1: of defeatism, Like it would be different, but it's like

1927
01:59:37,000 --> 01:59:39,120
Speaker 1: it's like no that they're they're then inflicting that on you,

1928
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:44,480
Speaker 1: and it's just infuriating. Yeah. I think this also UM

1929
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:50,640
Speaker 1: to segue to something that actually had happened to me today. UM.

1930
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 1: As part of UM, you know, being in a call

1931
01:59:55,240 --> 02:00:00,320
Speaker 1: center for an abortion provider, is that we think this

1932
02:00:00,480 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 1: instills like a sense of fear for providers as well,

1933
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:09,120
Speaker 1: UM for their own personal safety. It just makes it

1934
02:00:09,400 --> 02:00:14,000
Speaker 1: feel bigger because you have all these other people would

1935
02:00:14,040 --> 02:00:17,280
Speaker 1: be like, well, it's it's like these are all these

1936
02:00:17,320 --> 02:00:19,080
Speaker 1: things that could happen to you, this is what might

1937
02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:22,000
Speaker 1: happen to you. UM. And I think that it makes

1938
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:28,320
Speaker 1: providers have to evaluate, you know, their own risks to

1939
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:32,600
Speaker 1: what they do. UM. And if you are somebody with

1940
02:00:32,920 --> 02:00:36,320
Speaker 1: not as strong values for this work, like it's not

1941
02:00:36,440 --> 02:00:41,440
Speaker 1: a strong opinion towards this work, it causes UM, you

1942
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:45,680
Speaker 1: to just neglect patients because UM. I had an incident

1943
02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:49,320
Speaker 1: that happened today where we had somebody call UM from

1944
02:00:49,640 --> 02:00:56,880
Speaker 1: a different state where abortion is not legal, and they

1945
02:00:57,480 --> 02:00:59,880
Speaker 1: had their best friend in the car with them I

1946
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:03,080
Speaker 1: and they were like, my friend is like actively hemorrhaging.

1947
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:06,960
Speaker 1: She's been like bleeding for days. Um, do you have

1948
02:01:07,120 --> 02:01:09,600
Speaker 1: like an emergency appointment? Like we could drive up to

1949
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:13,080
Speaker 1: p A. UM, Like what do I do? She's been

1950
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:15,640
Speaker 1: to her doctor three different times and they refused to

1951
02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:21,080
Speaker 1: treat her because like viable, And in my brain, I'm

1952
02:01:21,160 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 1: just shaking because I'm like, this is a this is

1953
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:29,040
Speaker 1: your job, Like you're the first thing as a doctor

1954
02:01:29,400 --> 02:01:32,160
Speaker 1: is to make sure that your patient doesn't die, and

1955
02:01:32,280 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 1: they might die. And I'm not a doctor, UM. And

1956
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:42,760
Speaker 1: so I was like, if your friend is losing so

1957
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:47,200
Speaker 1: much blood that you are worried for her safety, UM.

1958
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:50,000
Speaker 1: I know on the phone they were talking about how

1959
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:53,160
Speaker 1: she felt like she it was like getting dizzy and

1960
02:01:53,320 --> 02:01:56,360
Speaker 1: like losing a ridiculous amount of blood. And I was like,

1961
02:01:56,480 --> 02:02:00,280
Speaker 1: I strongly suggest that you go to a hospital where

1962
02:02:00,760 --> 02:02:03,880
Speaker 1: um abortion is legal, since you're planning on, you know,

1963
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:08,840
Speaker 1: coming up for an abortion anyway, UM, because in that case,

1964
02:02:09,040 --> 02:02:12,880
Speaker 1: they would have to treat you no matter what. UM.

1965
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:19,280
Speaker 1: And if you know it's going to result in an abortion,

1966
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:22,160
Speaker 1: then at the very least you're protected because you're hearing

1967
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:24,320
Speaker 1: your cross state lines. And I'm like, because any any

1968
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:29,080
Speaker 1: hospital has to treat you, UM for something that's serious

1969
02:02:29,320 --> 02:02:34,160
Speaker 1: and it's it's scary to think that there are definitely

1970
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:38,520
Speaker 1: other other providers and other places where this kind of

1971
02:02:38,640 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 1: thing is also happening. Um. And I just worry that,

1972
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, um, what if I was ten minutes, Like

1973
02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:53,120
Speaker 1: what if I was two minutes late? What if I

1974
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:57,480
Speaker 1: was thirty seconds? Like what if I told her to wait? Um?

1975
02:02:57,800 --> 02:03:01,320
Speaker 1: Like some places kind of have to um or I

1976
02:03:01,400 --> 02:03:03,480
Speaker 1: told her that I couldn't help her, like some places

1977
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:08,720
Speaker 1: kind of have to with these laws. I don't think

1978
02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:14,360
Speaker 1: that I could live with the guilt of that. M

1979
02:03:14,600 --> 02:03:19,320
Speaker 1: hm um. Yeah, it's just another another added trauma to

1980
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:23,600
Speaker 1: the day. And I feel like a lot of people

1981
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:27,080
Speaker 1: said and like these people suck. But a lot of

1982
02:03:27,160 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 1: people were saying that, like stuff like this wouldn't happen.

1983
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:32,440
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that I had so many

1984
02:03:32,520 --> 02:03:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm very vocal about origin access in my work, and

1985
02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:39,200
Speaker 1: I've had people tell me like people won't be hemorrhaging

1986
02:03:39,400 --> 02:03:42,360
Speaker 1: and driving across state lines, and I'm like, absolutely, they

1987
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:45,440
Speaker 1: will be. Absolutely. And this was like a month ago,

1988
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:47,800
Speaker 1: and then well more than a month ago. Time goes fast,

1989
02:03:47,880 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 1: but like this was like prior to dobs, I should say,

1990
02:03:50,840 --> 02:03:54,600
Speaker 1: but um, and it's just when they were telling me like,

1991
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:55,880
Speaker 1: I don't believe you, and I'm like, what do you

1992
02:03:55,960 --> 02:03:58,200
Speaker 1: mean you don't believe me? This is the most believable thing.

1993
02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:01,400
Speaker 1: And then to have had people say that it wouldn't

1994
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:03,240
Speaker 1: happen and to call me a liar and like a

1995
02:04:03,320 --> 02:04:07,160
Speaker 1: drama queen, and then now to like, I mean, I

1996
02:04:07,320 --> 02:04:09,000
Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't get a call like that, but like

1997
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 1: to hear like my co worker and like and then

1998
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:14,320
Speaker 1: just like hearing it happen elsewhere, because like you know,

1999
02:04:14,440 --> 02:04:18,800
Speaker 1: we have comrades and and union UM siblings in Ohio

2000
02:04:19,320 --> 02:04:22,320
Speaker 1: UM with other unions and they've talked about it happening,

2001
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 1: and just so hearing my my um my peers talking

2002
02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:30,280
Speaker 1: about it and just knowing like we knew this would happen,

2003
02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 1: and we just it feels like we just like walked

2004
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 1: right into it with no plan. There's still no plan.

2005
02:04:36,480 --> 02:04:39,400
Speaker 1: People are still in cars drive across state lines while

2006
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:44,160
Speaker 1: actively hemorrhaging. And I don't know what it will be

2007
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:52,320
Speaker 1: done other than US workers really stepping up and hopefully

2008
02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:57,720
Speaker 1: the community then supporting us UM, because we can't do

2009
02:04:57,800 --> 02:05:00,640
Speaker 1: it without community support, like like Elizabeth was saying before,

2010
02:05:00,760 --> 02:05:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, oh and Elizabeth was actually talking before about

2011
02:05:05,080 --> 02:05:07,000
Speaker 1: the food that we've been getting from the community, and

2012
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:09,640
Speaker 1: this also made me think of what it looks like

2013
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:11,800
Speaker 1: to turn up for workers in general, because you know,

2014
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:15,240
Speaker 1: we're all workers here, and like, we know what it

2015
02:05:15,280 --> 02:05:17,760
Speaker 1: feels like where you're too busy to stop and eat

2016
02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:20,200
Speaker 1: and you're just going through your day and you're running

2017
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 1: on fumes and you're exhausted. But the fact that our

2018
02:05:24,080 --> 02:05:26,360
Speaker 1: community was like feeding has been feeding us and like

2019
02:05:26,440 --> 02:05:28,520
Speaker 1: turning up for us to the point where like I

2020
02:05:28,720 --> 02:05:32,920
Speaker 1: was having good healthy food confused me from day to

2021
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:36,920
Speaker 1: day in that well since then and then it really

2022
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:39,400
Speaker 1: got me wondering, like, is this is what it likes?

2023
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:41,400
Speaker 1: This is what it's like when you have well fed

2024
02:05:41,480 --> 02:05:45,240
Speaker 1: workers and that are cared for. So, you know, if

2025
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:47,840
Speaker 1: the only people answering the call for these these people

2026
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:52,280
Speaker 1: who need healthcare are us, We're exhausted, we don't have

2027
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:54,720
Speaker 1: time to go out and get food, especially since we've

2028
02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:57,560
Speaker 1: got people following us down the street whatever, um, while

2029
02:05:57,600 --> 02:06:00,560
Speaker 1: we go get a hot dog trying to bother us, um.

2030
02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:03,040
Speaker 1: But then to have like the community bringing us food

2031
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:06,800
Speaker 1: and then being well fed, it was just like, oh

2032
02:06:06,920 --> 02:06:09,560
Speaker 1: my god, what if all workers were well fed and

2033
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:12,880
Speaker 1: all communities turned up for their workers. Wouldn't that be

2034
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:17,280
Speaker 1: so nice? And it got me thinking like like, wow,

2035
02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:21,200
Speaker 1: this is like a really positive thing that is not

2036
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:24,000
Speaker 1: really talked about. Like I mean, we talked about feeding people,

2037
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:27,920
Speaker 1: but like what if workers were were well fed? Like

2038
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:31,520
Speaker 1: I don't like healthcare workers. It's just it's been really nice.

2039
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:34,600
Speaker 1: And I love our community. Um, I love our city.

2040
02:06:35,880 --> 02:06:39,600
Speaker 1: I love the organizations that have been organizing it. We're

2041
02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:45,360
Speaker 1: incredibly grateful. Yeah, they're fantastic, They're they're so good to us. Um.

2042
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:47,480
Speaker 1: I know that for those couple of weeks where we

2043
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:51,600
Speaker 1: had food in our breakroom, UM, I think we worked

2044
02:06:52,120 --> 02:06:56,120
Speaker 1: a lot better. Everybody was in much better moods. I

2045
02:06:56,200 --> 02:06:58,560
Speaker 1: didn't get shaky hands, you know. Yeah, we were all

2046
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:01,160
Speaker 1: like really excited to see each other and talk to

2047
02:07:01,240 --> 02:07:04,560
Speaker 1: each other and talk about our days. Um just over

2048
02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:09,160
Speaker 1: like actually good coffee. And it was just a huge

2049
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:13,320
Speaker 1: morale boost to have the community supporting the workers. And

2050
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:15,600
Speaker 1: then now we have the community coming to our union

2051
02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:17,360
Speaker 1: rally saying we support you, we want you to get

2052
02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:19,240
Speaker 1: paid more, we want you to have better staff, and

2053
02:07:19,360 --> 02:07:24,440
Speaker 1: that is just like so necessary right now because we

2054
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:28,200
Speaker 1: need we need the community. We need everyone. What else

2055
02:07:28,320 --> 02:07:32,680
Speaker 1: can listeners who are who are like want to help

2056
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:35,360
Speaker 1: but are not in the industry do just uh to

2057
02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:38,400
Speaker 1: support you all well? And I guess on two levels,

2058
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:41,160
Speaker 1: like one is like like, what what can they do

2059
02:07:41,280 --> 02:07:43,720
Speaker 1: sort of in general in their communities? And then to

2060
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 1: specifically to help y'all with your fight with the hospital,

2061
02:07:48,400 --> 02:07:52,400
Speaker 1: the clinic just a little clinic, just a tiny, little,

2062
02:07:52,520 --> 02:07:57,560
Speaker 1: tiny little guy. UM. I know that for us specifically,

2063
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:01,360
Speaker 1: I think, do what you do best. If you are

2064
02:08:01,400 --> 02:08:06,000
Speaker 1: a person who likes to make art, um, we love

2065
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:10,040
Speaker 1: seeing your drawings. We love seeing like your handwritten notes. UM.

2066
02:08:10,120 --> 02:08:12,120
Speaker 1: If you're a person who makes a really good cup

2067
02:08:12,200 --> 02:08:14,640
Speaker 1: of coffee um, or if you're a cafe who just

2068
02:08:14,760 --> 02:08:18,240
Speaker 1: wants to bring us coffee, we love coffee. UM. If

2069
02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:22,200
Speaker 1: you're a bakery that wants to donate like donuts or

2070
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, cheesecakes, we will happily eat them. Um. Yeah.

2071
02:08:30,040 --> 02:08:33,839
Speaker 1: If you want to, like send us a Bluetooth speaker

2072
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:36,880
Speaker 1: so we can listen to music during the day. Whatever

2073
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:40,840
Speaker 1: you do best is what we would love as long

2074
02:08:40,920 --> 02:08:43,280
Speaker 1: as it comes from like you, comes from your heart

2075
02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:48,120
Speaker 1: like we love um. Weighted blankets and fluffy things and

2076
02:08:48,360 --> 02:08:53,360
Speaker 1: snacks and just um, all of those things that come

2077
02:08:53,680 --> 02:08:56,640
Speaker 1: like from the heart make us feel like it's worth

2078
02:08:56,720 --> 02:09:00,480
Speaker 1: it UM at least from the community UM. And things

2079
02:09:00,560 --> 02:09:03,640
Speaker 1: also that we don't have to think about UM because

2080
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:06,120
Speaker 1: as beautiful as make your own taco kids are, we

2081
02:09:06,240 --> 02:09:08,080
Speaker 1: still have to have time to make our own talks

2082
02:09:08,400 --> 02:09:11,560
Speaker 1: the taco. Yeah. So if if there's anything that you

2083
02:09:11,600 --> 02:09:13,520
Speaker 1: could just like throw at us, and it's already like

2084
02:09:13,800 --> 02:09:18,400
Speaker 1: put together, like assembled, has very little thought, like a UM,

2085
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:21,920
Speaker 1: a zombie or a toddler or a burnt out abortion worker.

2086
02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:24,720
Speaker 1: Can you know put two and two together? We love

2087
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:29,360
Speaker 1: those two. And you could also follow our union UM.

2088
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:35,760
Speaker 1: And there's actually a bunch of abortion care worker unions.

2089
02:09:35,960 --> 02:09:37,800
Speaker 1: We're not the only one, we are many. We are

2090
02:09:37,880 --> 02:09:40,680
Speaker 1: legion UM. So you can really follow any of us

2091
02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:43,560
Speaker 1: and just boost what we need because right right now

2092
02:09:43,600 --> 02:09:45,920
Speaker 1: the p p f A union like New York City

2093
02:09:45,920 --> 02:09:48,960
Speaker 1: San Francisco is needing a lot of boosting what they're

2094
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:51,400
Speaker 1: what they're doing, goot Mocker union needs a lot of

2095
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:54,880
Speaker 1: love and support. But our union UI Local six night

2096
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:59,840
Speaker 1: six UM. Our social media is at p p w

2097
02:10:00,160 --> 02:10:04,400
Speaker 1: P Union UM not to self promote, but if you

2098
02:10:04,520 --> 02:10:06,920
Speaker 1: go on there. There are videos of our rally and

2099
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:10,000
Speaker 1: I need uter is shaped paniata if anything wants to

2100
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:12,520
Speaker 1: see us busted open. It's pretty good, it's pretty cool.

2101
02:10:13,200 --> 02:10:17,480
Speaker 1: We busted open a uterus shaped pinata at our rally

2102
02:10:17,920 --> 02:10:23,160
Speaker 1: and as we brought up a UM union family child

2103
02:10:23,160 --> 02:10:25,880
Speaker 1: because it was it was the son of a local

2104
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:28,640
Speaker 1: union member. We brought him up and we helped him

2105
02:10:28,640 --> 02:10:33,160
Speaker 1: splash the panada, the uterus panada, and as he was swinging,

2106
02:10:33,320 --> 02:10:35,480
Speaker 1: it was like, this is what we think about low wages,

2107
02:10:35,800 --> 02:10:37,720
Speaker 1: this is what we think about scot is, this is

2108
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:40,640
Speaker 1: what we think about understaffing. And then candy just like

2109
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:43,920
Speaker 1: burst out of it. It was like a normal birth,

2110
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, glitter and candy pop out, very realistic. Actually,

2111
02:10:51,080 --> 02:10:55,040
Speaker 1: abortions to people don't know this, but glitter always comes

2112
02:10:55,080 --> 02:10:58,720
Speaker 1: out during an abortion can confirm there's gonna be there's

2113
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:02,520
Speaker 1: gonna be like three people who actually believe you. They're

2114
02:11:02,560 --> 02:11:05,040
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna like tell their friend this and their

2115
02:11:05,080 --> 02:11:07,480
Speaker 1: friends gonna be like, what are you talking about there?

2116
02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 1: You're like, no, no, I heard it on a podcast,

2117
02:11:09,440 --> 02:11:12,560
Speaker 1: or like the servis sprays glitter when you when you

2118
02:11:12,680 --> 02:11:17,000
Speaker 1: touch it, dilating the cervix is really just opening it

2119
02:11:17,160 --> 02:11:21,360
Speaker 1: up so that it litter come out. Yeah, I guess. Well, okay,

2120
02:11:21,400 --> 02:11:25,280
Speaker 1: so logistics wise, Yeah, if you send me links, I

2121
02:11:25,360 --> 02:11:29,880
Speaker 1: will we will put them in the episode description. Um. Yeah,

2122
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:33,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, I guess do you two have anything else

2123
02:11:33,400 --> 02:11:38,280
Speaker 1: that you want to say? Um? I don't think so,

2124
02:11:38,400 --> 02:11:42,120
Speaker 1: other than like thank you for having us. Um, this

2125
02:11:42,360 --> 02:11:46,920
Speaker 1: is super fun. We had a great time. Yeah, me too. Yeah,

2126
02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:49,800
Speaker 1: it was good. I love talking about abortion. Oh yeah,

2127
02:11:50,320 --> 02:11:51,960
Speaker 1: oh my god. Me and Elizabeth on the phone, just

2128
02:11:52,000 --> 02:11:55,160
Speaker 1: gabbing away and we'll we'll be on twenty on a

2129
02:11:55,240 --> 02:11:58,440
Speaker 1: call twenty minutes talking to like someone who who needs help,

2130
02:11:58,520 --> 02:12:00,480
Speaker 1: and then we'll like get off and then we'll be

2131
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:04,400
Speaker 1: gavin about whatever for like ten minutes and mostly TikTok's

2132
02:12:05,000 --> 02:12:08,280
Speaker 1: mostly TikTok. But um, yeah, I know. It's it's so

2133
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:11,360
Speaker 1: important too that we can be platformed as like abortion

2134
02:12:11,400 --> 02:12:14,760
Speaker 1: care workers, as union members, as people working in a

2135
02:12:14,840 --> 02:12:18,440
Speaker 1: stigmatized field during a crisis. It's very it means so much,

2136
02:12:18,560 --> 02:12:21,480
Speaker 1: and it's meant a lot to me to see how

2137
02:12:21,560 --> 02:12:25,840
Speaker 1: many abortion episodes this podcasts, Like, yeah, you're really cover

2138
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:28,400
Speaker 1: and everything. Yeah, I was looking them up and I

2139
02:12:28,480 --> 02:12:31,440
Speaker 1: was like there's it's it's every angle of abortion care

2140
02:12:31,520 --> 02:12:33,920
Speaker 1: and I love it. We love to see buy a

2141
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:37,000
Speaker 1: knowledge too, and we love to see it. You're gonna

2142
02:12:37,040 --> 02:12:39,240
Speaker 1: run out of topics so eventually, but you really should

2143
02:12:39,240 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 1: have an episode about the serve ex glitter. Yeah, so

2144
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:45,360
Speaker 1: this will this will be our Actually wait are you

2145
02:12:45,600 --> 02:12:48,960
Speaker 1: full episodes? Actually booked man be the second apul fulls episode.

2146
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:56,360
Speaker 1: More people need to know about this phenomenon alright, that

2147
02:12:56,480 --> 02:12:59,480
Speaker 1: this this has been naked happen here. Uh, you can

2148
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:02,200
Speaker 1: find us in the places where you know where, defind

2149
02:13:02,320 --> 02:13:04,040
Speaker 1: us because we see this at the end of every episode.

2150
02:13:05,120 --> 02:13:26,000
Speaker 1: H yeah, thank you too again, thank you it could

2151
02:13:26,080 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 1: happen here is a podcast. Sometimes it's about good stuff

2152
02:13:30,280 --> 02:13:34,360
Speaker 1: and ways people can fix things. Sometimes it's about frightening

2153
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:38,160
Speaker 1: stuff like today, today's a scary episode. Joining me to

2154
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:42,960
Speaker 1: scare everybody is Professor Calvin Norman. Calvin, how are you

2155
02:13:43,040 --> 02:13:46,480
Speaker 1: doing today? Oh, Robert, I do well some days, but

2156
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:50,360
Speaker 1: most days not. I work on climate change, invasive species,

2157
02:13:50,760 --> 02:13:54,360
Speaker 1: forest health issues, a chronic waste disease. So their problems

2158
02:13:54,440 --> 02:13:57,280
Speaker 1: with those things. Okay, well, actually, last time were we

2159
02:13:57,360 --> 02:13:59,760
Speaker 1: talked abou climate change? Solve that? So We're We're good.

2160
02:14:00,880 --> 02:14:04,280
Speaker 1: That's all. We locked that down right, Yeah, you get

2161
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:06,280
Speaker 1: we got the we got the eels fed. That was

2162
02:14:06,320 --> 02:14:08,840
Speaker 1: the problem. Oh yeah, yeah, there's like a car company

2163
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:13,680
Speaker 1: that's electric. We're nailing it, so I get. We had

2164
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:15,720
Speaker 1: you on the show once before to talk about how

2165
02:14:15,880 --> 02:14:20,000
Speaker 1: the forest is bad. Uh yeah, um, still bad. Still

2166
02:14:20,040 --> 02:14:21,960
Speaker 1: a lot of problems in the forest, as the people

2167
02:14:21,960 --> 02:14:26,280
Speaker 1: who are watching their forests burn can probably uh say,

2168
02:14:26,520 --> 02:14:28,640
Speaker 1: although there's other problems than that, as we talk about

2169
02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:30,760
Speaker 1: in your episode. Didn't mean an email a while back.

2170
02:14:31,000 --> 02:14:32,320
Speaker 1: It took a bit for me to get my ship

2171
02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:34,560
Speaker 1: together to have you back on. But it was a

2172
02:14:34,680 --> 02:14:37,880
Speaker 1: frightening email about a disease sweeping through the country that

2173
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:41,440
Speaker 1: could have massive effects on the lives of everybody listening

2174
02:14:41,520 --> 02:14:44,440
Speaker 1: to this. Um, And it's not one of the diseases

2175
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:46,600
Speaker 1: that you're all thinking about. I know, there's a couple

2176
02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:49,400
Speaker 1: of things that meet that decision that that like, there's

2177
02:14:49,440 --> 02:14:52,120
Speaker 1: a couple of different diseases running on checked throughout the

2178
02:14:52,240 --> 02:14:55,320
Speaker 1: United States at the moment and the world. Um, we

2179
02:14:55,400 --> 02:14:57,440
Speaker 1: are not talking about either of the ones that are

2180
02:14:57,520 --> 02:15:00,520
Speaker 1: big in the news right now. We're gonna talk chronic

2181
02:15:00,640 --> 02:15:03,040
Speaker 1: wasting disease. Calvin, you want to kind of introduce that

2182
02:15:03,160 --> 02:15:05,120
Speaker 1: concept to the people, because this was not something I

2183
02:15:05,240 --> 02:15:07,600
Speaker 1: really I had heard of it, but I didn't. It

2184
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:10,280
Speaker 1: was just kind of like, you know, animals have weird diseases, right,

2185
02:15:10,360 --> 02:15:12,680
Speaker 1: cats get you know, lymphoma or whatever. I never thought

2186
02:15:12,720 --> 02:15:14,840
Speaker 1: about it much as a as a thing that was

2187
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:17,320
Speaker 1: a problem other than a problem for some deer. But

2188
02:15:17,440 --> 02:15:20,880
Speaker 1: it is. It is quite an issue. Yeah, yeah, it's

2189
02:15:21,240 --> 02:15:24,320
Speaker 1: if it stays in dear, I will be happy. Let's

2190
02:15:24,360 --> 02:15:27,520
Speaker 1: put it like that. So, um, we're gonna actually like

2191
02:15:27,640 --> 02:15:30,160
Speaker 1: do a little throwback to the past year. Watch watch

2192
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:35,760
Speaker 1: out an We're gonna go back to the nineties. All right,

2193
02:15:35,760 --> 02:15:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go We're gonna get I'm gonna get my

2194
02:15:37,200 --> 02:15:40,080
Speaker 1: shoulder pads on, I'm gonna get my X Files poster

2195
02:15:40,600 --> 02:15:44,280
Speaker 1: stuck up on the wall. I'm gonna vote for a

2196
02:15:44,640 --> 02:15:50,200
Speaker 1: serial sexual abuser. Well that's that's every decade. Um, okay, sorry, So,

2197
02:15:50,520 --> 02:15:53,040
Speaker 1: so chronic wasting diseases a pry and the reason we're

2198
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:54,680
Speaker 1: going back to is a prime disease. And the reason

2199
02:15:54,720 --> 02:15:57,000
Speaker 1: we're going back to the nineties is to to look

2200
02:15:57,040 --> 02:16:00,120
Speaker 1: at the the most the biggest like reason any one

2201
02:16:00,160 --> 02:16:02,480
Speaker 1: would have heard of a prion disease outside of like

2202
02:16:02,800 --> 02:16:05,160
Speaker 1: you know some like you know, brain scientists and stuff,

2203
02:16:05,160 --> 02:16:08,680
Speaker 1: and that's you know, bovo line, bovine sponge form and

2204
02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:12,760
Speaker 1: sapalopathy or more commonly known as mad cow disease. So

2205
02:16:13,560 --> 02:16:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, Robert, I'm not sure how much you are

2206
02:16:16,840 --> 02:16:19,040
Speaker 1: aware of mad cow. It popped up in the US

2207
02:16:19,080 --> 02:16:21,840
Speaker 1: in the mid two thousand's, but it killed a bunch

2208
02:16:21,880 --> 02:16:24,480
Speaker 1: of people in England in the nineties. Yeah, isn't there

2209
02:16:24,520 --> 02:16:27,960
Speaker 1: like there's still restrictions on like blood donation and stuff

2210
02:16:27,960 --> 02:16:30,160
Speaker 1: if you lived in England at a certain period, right,

2211
02:16:30,240 --> 02:16:32,800
Speaker 1: like there's some weird ship like that. Yeah, you can't

2212
02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:35,840
Speaker 1: donate blood for that. Um, that's a very good reason.

2213
02:16:35,879 --> 02:16:36,880
Speaker 1: We'll go in too that in a second. Actually, I

2214
02:16:37,000 --> 02:16:38,720
Speaker 1: wass in England not too long ago, and I did

2215
02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:41,480
Speaker 1: not eat beef there because I've read too much about

2216
02:16:41,520 --> 02:16:44,240
Speaker 1: prions to mess around with that stuff. Yeah, I mean,

2217
02:16:45,080 --> 02:16:48,240
Speaker 1: thankfully here in America we have health food standards, unlike

2218
02:16:48,280 --> 02:16:51,400
Speaker 1: those filthy Brits. But yeah, yeah, we had us Scare

2219
02:16:52,160 --> 02:16:54,920
Speaker 1: um Canada head of Scare and we'll talk about the

2220
02:16:55,160 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 1: repercussions of that later. But so the reason we're going

2221
02:16:58,080 --> 02:17:00,200
Speaker 1: back is we're gonna look at the most recent time

2222
02:17:00,280 --> 02:17:03,640
Speaker 1: prians have become mainstream. So what happened there? So well,

2223
02:17:03,760 --> 02:17:06,320
Speaker 1: let me just unfold this a little bit. That's a joke,

2224
02:17:06,440 --> 02:17:10,600
Speaker 1: y'all all understand in three minutes hopefully. So a prion,

2225
02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:15,360
Speaker 1: it's a protein in your brain. Now, UM, I'm not

2226
02:17:15,400 --> 02:17:18,840
Speaker 1: a neurologist. I am a wildlife biologist for sorry, so um,

2227
02:17:18,959 --> 02:17:20,879
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be answer every question out there about

2228
02:17:20,959 --> 02:17:24,120
Speaker 1: brains and proteins and stuff like that. Um, but what

2229
02:17:24,520 --> 02:17:27,200
Speaker 1: what the prion protein in your brain does is it

2230
02:17:27,320 --> 02:17:30,720
Speaker 1: moves copper around, which is important for cell stuff. I

2231
02:17:30,959 --> 02:17:33,920
Speaker 1: personally think that mankind should have never looked through a

2232
02:17:33,920 --> 02:17:37,040
Speaker 1: microscope and everything at the cider level is just harresy.

2233
02:17:37,240 --> 02:17:39,520
Speaker 1: We shouldn't look at it at all. Now, I'm i'm,

2234
02:17:39,560 --> 02:17:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm completely on board with you there. There's certain

2235
02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:43,879
Speaker 1: things we never should have studied, and anything that involves

2236
02:17:43,920 --> 02:17:46,360
Speaker 1: a microscope is one of them. Oh yeah, you lost

2237
02:17:46,400 --> 02:17:48,880
Speaker 1: me there. HandLens I'm good for you can like see

2238
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:52,840
Speaker 1: like small stuff, but microscopes out. Okay. So, so in

2239
02:17:53,000 --> 02:17:55,720
Speaker 1: your brain you're moving around copper and stuff and it's

2240
02:17:55,760 --> 02:17:58,280
Speaker 1: important for the cell stuff. So, um, we're gonna go

2241
02:17:58,280 --> 02:17:59,840
Speaker 1: back to high school biology. For most folks, you know,

2242
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:03,720
Speaker 1: proteins building block of life important. So your protein structure

2243
02:18:03,760 --> 02:18:05,879
Speaker 1: is dictated by the elements in it and how they're

2244
02:18:06,200 --> 02:18:08,760
Speaker 1: like arranged, you know, like stacked on top of each other.

2245
02:18:09,240 --> 02:18:12,600
Speaker 1: So that's that's basic, you know, high school biology. But

2246
02:18:12,720 --> 02:18:15,600
Speaker 1: then you know, as you get a little bit further

2247
02:18:15,640 --> 02:18:17,360
Speaker 1: in biology, you find out there's it's a little bit

2248
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:20,680
Speaker 1: more complex. So proteins, like you know, all things in

2249
02:18:20,800 --> 02:18:23,320
Speaker 1: our real world are unfortunately not like in the textbook,

2250
02:18:23,320 --> 02:18:25,240
Speaker 1: and these are three D and so they have like

2251
02:18:25,400 --> 02:18:30,600
Speaker 1: shapes and folds. Now, when folded correctly, it just prion

2252
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:35,000
Speaker 1: protein operates normally and just moves copper around. Um, unfortunately

2253
02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:38,000
Speaker 1: doesn't always. You know, sometimes it doesn't fold correctly and

2254
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:42,040
Speaker 1: when that happens, it doesn't move copper. And so brains

2255
02:18:42,080 --> 02:18:43,959
Speaker 1: have a little bit of an issue because they don't

2256
02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:47,320
Speaker 1: get copper. Yeah, and this is why all those trucks

2257
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:49,440
Speaker 1: stops sell those copper bands that you can put on

2258
02:18:49,480 --> 02:18:52,760
Speaker 1: your risk to solve diseases. Right, it's to deal with that. Yeah,

2259
02:18:52,800 --> 02:18:54,560
Speaker 1: you just keep that copper band on your rest. So

2260
02:18:54,800 --> 02:18:58,320
Speaker 1: that problem. Yeah, So so what what happens when that

2261
02:18:58,400 --> 02:19:00,080
Speaker 1: happens is you get a prion disease. There are some

2262
02:19:00,680 --> 02:19:03,040
Speaker 1: that evolved in that just like they don't evolve because

2263
02:19:03,040 --> 02:19:05,800
Speaker 1: they're not living. Um that just pop up in nature.

2264
02:19:05,879 --> 02:19:09,320
Speaker 1: So like a spongef bovine sponge ofform and sepalopathy mad

2265
02:19:09,400 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 1: cow ropins a little bit earlier, talk about in a

2266
02:19:11,800 --> 02:19:16,600
Speaker 1: second scrapey uh, feline spongeform and sepalopathy which comes from

2267
02:19:16,720 --> 02:19:20,280
Speaker 1: cats that ate meat that was infected with mad cow um.

2268
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:24,360
Speaker 1: And then there's kuru. I think, yeah, that's the one

2269
02:19:24,480 --> 02:19:27,840
Speaker 1: cannibals get, right, Like, this is famously why cannibals quote

2270
02:19:27,920 --> 02:19:31,119
Speaker 1: unquote go crazy. Actually a lot of cannibals. We're well

2271
02:19:31,160 --> 02:19:33,360
Speaker 1: aware that you don't eat meat from certain areas, but

2272
02:19:33,480 --> 02:19:35,440
Speaker 1: it is a thing if you're going to eat people,

2273
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:39,200
Speaker 1: be really careful about the spine. Don't eat brains and spines. Yeah,

2274
02:19:39,200 --> 02:19:43,640
Speaker 1: that's that's exactly. Yeah. Um, there's um and in humans

2275
02:19:43,760 --> 02:19:47,560
Speaker 1: it's called um. The spongeforms seplopathy. I'm gonna explain the

2276
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:51,040
Speaker 1: big word in one second. It's called crom helds yakops disease.

2277
02:19:51,080 --> 02:19:54,920
Speaker 1: It was too Germans really neat stuff. Yeah, it's one

2278
02:19:54,959 --> 02:19:57,760
Speaker 1: of my favorite disease names because you just know you're

2279
02:19:57,800 --> 02:20:00,640
Speaker 1: in for some like horrifying shit when you when you

2280
02:20:00,800 --> 02:20:03,720
Speaker 1: see the that spelled out, you're like, well, that's got

2281
02:20:03,800 --> 02:20:07,120
Speaker 1: to be something bad. Yeah. Well, luckily, like you know,

2282
02:20:07,920 --> 02:20:11,920
Speaker 1: for two German guys like alive in the thirties deed

2283
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:17,520
Speaker 1: good stuff, like they doctors who weren't not seas in

2284
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:20,640
Speaker 1: that period. Yeah, it seems like one of them died

2285
02:20:20,800 --> 02:20:23,000
Speaker 1: right before things like that, you know, things went out

2286
02:20:23,040 --> 02:20:27,200
Speaker 1: there and then time Yeah yeah, okay, So so I've

2287
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:30,440
Speaker 1: been throwing around this word spongeform at sepalopathy um and

2288
02:20:30,560 --> 02:20:33,920
Speaker 1: then like you know, I changed like the you know, bovine, feline, whatever.

2289
02:20:34,080 --> 02:20:36,640
Speaker 1: So it a sponge of form means something looks like

2290
02:20:36,680 --> 02:20:40,200
Speaker 1: a sponge. And then it's epalopathy means brain. So your

2291
02:20:40,240 --> 02:20:43,040
Speaker 1: brain turns into a sponge. And that's because you're not

2292
02:20:43,120 --> 02:20:45,640
Speaker 1: getting copper and so cell cells are falling apart, and

2293
02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:48,240
Speaker 1: it's your brain just doesn't work, to be real simple,

2294
02:20:48,280 --> 02:20:50,879
Speaker 1: it's kind of like Alzheimer's that's like presents the humans,

2295
02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:53,320
Speaker 1: which is why it's really hard to figure out, all right,

2296
02:20:53,400 --> 02:20:56,680
Speaker 1: And then when you want to determine that something has spongeform,

2297
02:20:56,720 --> 02:20:58,920
Speaker 1: and sepalopathy. You've gotta cut the brain open, look at

2298
02:20:58,959 --> 02:21:02,640
Speaker 1: it under a microscope. Hell, yeah, you do. UM. And

2299
02:21:02,879 --> 02:21:06,119
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, that doesn't usually happen in people.

2300
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:08,680
Speaker 1: You don't usually cut the brains open. And also in

2301
02:21:08,720 --> 02:21:10,600
Speaker 1: a lot of animals, you don't usually cut the brain open,

2302
02:21:10,680 --> 02:21:15,039
Speaker 1: look at it under microscope. Well it's bad, that's not. Yeah,

2303
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:18,920
Speaker 1: it's always lethal, always a legal example. So like that's

2304
02:21:18,959 --> 02:21:21,960
Speaker 1: the basics of like what a prian disease is UM.

2305
02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:24,080
Speaker 1: And then when we saw it in in England, what

2306
02:21:24,240 --> 02:21:27,200
Speaker 1: had what had happened was got into cows. Cow's got

2307
02:21:27,280 --> 02:21:29,400
Speaker 1: it from eating other cows that were fed back to them,

2308
02:21:29,600 --> 02:21:31,640
Speaker 1: and then it got into humans because we ate what

2309
02:21:31,879 --> 02:21:34,240
Speaker 1: we the Brits in the third in the in the

2310
02:21:34,400 --> 02:21:38,280
Speaker 1: nineties eight cows that were infected with bovine sponge of

2311
02:21:38,280 --> 02:21:41,400
Speaker 1: formats eplopapy and you had to eat a good amount

2312
02:21:41,440 --> 02:21:43,080
Speaker 1: of it for it to build up in your brain.

2313
02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:47,680
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is we're Americans, right, right,

2314
02:21:47,760 --> 02:21:50,440
Speaker 1: So not a problem for Americans. I just want to

2315
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of like lay a foundation so we all understand

2316
02:21:52,440 --> 02:21:55,200
Speaker 1: what's going UM. And so what I mean I build

2317
02:21:55,240 --> 02:21:56,920
Speaker 1: up in your brain is like you know, you get

2318
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:59,440
Speaker 1: like one two proteins in there, You're fine, It's okay.

2319
02:21:59,480 --> 02:22:01,120
Speaker 1: Protein has been full at the time. It takes you know,

2320
02:22:01,240 --> 02:22:03,280
Speaker 1: brains are big, especially in humans, so it takes a

2321
02:22:03,280 --> 02:22:05,400
Speaker 1: while for this to becoming problem. But what happens is

2322
02:22:05,480 --> 02:22:08,880
Speaker 1: over time is one is, once you build up enough,

2323
02:22:09,360 --> 02:22:12,560
Speaker 1: you're get exposed to enough prions that are misfolded, like

2324
02:22:12,720 --> 02:22:16,119
Speaker 1: the prions in the brains start misfolding, and then slowly

2325
02:22:16,520 --> 02:22:21,560
Speaker 1: your brain just starts stops functioning correctly. Yeah, it you know,

2326
02:22:21,720 --> 02:22:25,520
Speaker 1: it's it's like a chain, like a slow chain reaction. UM.

2327
02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:29,000
Speaker 1: So that's the basics of of um Prian diseases and

2328
02:22:29,440 --> 02:22:34,600
Speaker 1: spongeform and stephalopathies. Now we're talking about chronic wasting disease UM,

2329
02:22:35,080 --> 02:22:38,560
Speaker 1: which can be easily described as the deer equivalent of

2330
02:22:38,879 --> 02:22:41,280
Speaker 1: mad cow disease. And like when you see a lot

2331
02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:43,560
Speaker 1: of stuff about it, people just it's like called like

2332
02:22:43,680 --> 02:22:46,959
Speaker 1: zombie deer because like deer get weird when they are

2333
02:22:47,440 --> 02:22:50,840
Speaker 1: like dying from chronic wasting disease. Like the name chronic

2334
02:22:50,879 --> 02:22:53,960
Speaker 1: wasting disease comes from because they like wasting away. They're

2335
02:22:54,000 --> 02:22:56,440
Speaker 1: like drooling and also drinking a lot. They act weird.

2336
02:22:56,560 --> 02:22:59,600
Speaker 1: They look dumb. Um, they just do weird stuff, and

2337
02:22:59,640 --> 02:23:05,119
Speaker 1: so people call it zombie like, dear, but they're not. Um,

2338
02:23:05,720 --> 02:23:07,600
Speaker 1: They're just infected with a prime disease and their brightness

2339
02:23:07,600 --> 02:23:10,920
Speaker 1: falling apart. It's like it's like a person getting Alzheimer's, Like,

2340
02:23:10,959 --> 02:23:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, they do weird stuff. My grandma has Alzheimer's

2341
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:17,360
Speaker 1: is terrible, don't get it? Yeah, yeah, my grandma had

2342
02:23:17,440 --> 02:23:21,200
Speaker 1: um the same thing that Robin Williams got the Loui

2343
02:23:21,240 --> 02:23:23,400
Speaker 1: body dimension, and it's it's pretty much the same thing, right,

2344
02:23:23,440 --> 02:23:25,800
Speaker 1: Like you can just see somebody kind of falling apart

2345
02:23:25,879 --> 02:23:28,480
Speaker 1: piece by piece. But that probably does make the deer

2346
02:23:28,600 --> 02:23:32,400
Speaker 1: easier to hunt, yes, and it also makes it really

2347
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:35,400
Speaker 1: easy to identify when it's it's advanced stages in dear.

2348
02:23:35,959 --> 02:23:38,680
Speaker 1: So we've got kind of an understanding of about it.

2349
02:23:38,840 --> 02:23:41,920
Speaker 1: But like, you know, why do we care? We are people?

2350
02:23:42,240 --> 02:23:45,280
Speaker 1: We are not dear, right, Robert, are you a dear? Uh?

2351
02:23:45,400 --> 02:23:48,280
Speaker 1: Not right now? I mean I have been to a

2352
02:23:48,360 --> 02:23:52,400
Speaker 1: furry convention, but but I didn't commit. So we all

2353
02:23:52,440 --> 02:23:57,280
Speaker 1: got our things. Well. Um, so I I hunt, dear Robert,

2354
02:23:57,360 --> 02:23:59,440
Speaker 1: I think you hunt. I don't know I'm getting I'm

2355
02:23:59,480 --> 02:24:03,400
Speaker 1: getting ready for for hunting season as we as we speak. Yeah,

2356
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:07,959
Speaker 1: so so, um, lots of people hunt deer and they

2357
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:10,520
Speaker 1: eat deer, which is which is cool and it's fine

2358
02:24:10,560 --> 02:24:13,400
Speaker 1: and it's important to do in you know, certain ecosystems.

2359
02:24:13,400 --> 02:24:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean in most of the US, like, deer have

2360
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:19,240
Speaker 1: been hunted by various you know humans for yeah, as

2361
02:24:19,280 --> 02:24:22,720
Speaker 1: long as people have been here, so you know, it's

2362
02:24:22,760 --> 02:24:25,640
Speaker 1: it's a natural thing to do. It's very normal for

2363
02:24:25,760 --> 02:24:28,199
Speaker 1: people to hunt deer and it's very normal. And also

2364
02:24:28,320 --> 02:24:31,640
Speaker 1: there are areas where we killed everything else that hunts deer. Yeah,

2365
02:24:31,959 --> 02:24:34,840
Speaker 1: so there's there's anyway whatever. We don't need to defend

2366
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:38,480
Speaker 1: deer hunting here. I I've done hours of webinars on

2367
02:24:38,720 --> 02:24:40,959
Speaker 1: the points of deer management. It's it's a real fun

2368
02:24:41,040 --> 02:24:42,960
Speaker 1: subject to you. But we do care about that. We're

2369
02:24:42,959 --> 02:24:46,080
Speaker 1: talking about chronic waste disease, fun stuff. So so we

2370
02:24:46,160 --> 02:24:48,680
Speaker 1: care about that. We care about chronic wasting disease because

2371
02:24:48,680 --> 02:24:51,560
Speaker 1: it impacts all members of the servant family or deer.

2372
02:24:51,640 --> 02:24:53,920
Speaker 1: So that's you know, elk moose. I just learned the

2373
02:24:54,000 --> 02:25:00,720
Speaker 1: Europeans called moose European elk wild arrogant again this, Yeah,

2374
02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:03,640
Speaker 1: look at a moose. Look at an elk super different.

2375
02:25:03,760 --> 02:25:07,720
Speaker 1: It's wildly different animals. Like they're both very big, but

2376
02:25:07,840 --> 02:25:10,360
Speaker 1: they're also different sizes. It's like the difference between like

2377
02:25:10,440 --> 02:25:13,640
Speaker 1: an armored car and a tank. Like a fucking moose

2378
02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:18,640
Speaker 1: is like it's basically an elephant in terms of its footprints. Like, yeah,

2379
02:25:18,720 --> 02:25:22,080
Speaker 1: they're so cool to see that enormous Yeah, yeah, the

2380
02:25:22,160 --> 02:25:25,320
Speaker 1: impact it can get in all servants that we know

2381
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:29,480
Speaker 1: it's um and you know, people like you know, people

2382
02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:31,720
Speaker 1: like to see servants, they like to hunt servants. We'd

2383
02:25:31,800 --> 02:25:34,120
Speaker 1: like to do it, you know in different countries. They're delicious.

2384
02:25:34,160 --> 02:25:36,760
Speaker 1: They have the best meat. Yes, absolutely, so much better

2385
02:25:36,840 --> 02:25:41,119
Speaker 1: than fucking beef, so much better than pork in my opinion,

2386
02:25:41,320 --> 02:25:45,120
Speaker 1: Like fucking love venicel Oh yeah, moose. I don't know

2387
02:25:45,120 --> 02:25:47,720
Speaker 1: if you had moose. I've had once. Oh it's yeah,

2388
02:25:47,800 --> 02:25:51,240
Speaker 1: moose and elk wonderful meats. That's actually a big thing

2389
02:25:51,440 --> 02:25:53,720
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan and I talk about when we're hanging out

2390
02:25:53,879 --> 02:25:56,840
Speaker 1: is elk meat. He's a big elk meat guy. That's good.

2391
02:25:56,920 --> 02:25:59,920
Speaker 1: I've I've never I've never hunted an elk. I've put

2392
02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:01,440
Speaker 1: it for the lottery every year, but it's hard to

2393
02:26:01,480 --> 02:26:03,600
Speaker 1: get hard to get elk tags in Pennsylvania. I know,

2394
02:26:03,640 --> 02:26:05,600
Speaker 1: it's a real surprise. Yeah, you know what, I'll go

2395
02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:07,640
Speaker 1: ahead and reach out. Now. It's easy to get the

2396
02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:10,200
Speaker 1: tags here, but it is hard unless you have a

2397
02:26:10,280 --> 02:26:12,680
Speaker 1: friend with land that elks are on to actually hunt

2398
02:26:12,760 --> 02:26:16,560
Speaker 1: them as as much as Yeah. Anyway, if you've got

2399
02:26:16,680 --> 02:26:18,640
Speaker 1: land in Oregon and you want me to hunt elk

2400
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:24,480
Speaker 1: on it, hit hit us up. Yeah. So so you know,

2401
02:26:24,560 --> 02:26:26,680
Speaker 1: as we can see, this is a clear demand for

2402
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:29,880
Speaker 1: servants and servent products, and so in like the fifties

2403
02:26:29,920 --> 02:26:33,040
Speaker 1: and sixties, people started, you know, they're like, well, you know,

2404
02:26:33,160 --> 02:26:35,480
Speaker 1: sometimes you're not always good at hunting, and not everyone

2405
02:26:35,520 --> 02:26:37,840
Speaker 1: wants to hunt, so they started trying to domesticate and

2406
02:26:37,920 --> 02:26:43,640
Speaker 1: farm them, right, um servants famously like running away, I've

2407
02:26:43,640 --> 02:26:46,040
Speaker 1: seen a lot of deer tails, Robert, you hunt, I'm

2408
02:26:46,040 --> 02:26:48,560
Speaker 1: sure you have, yeah, yeah, and a lot of like

2409
02:26:48,879 --> 02:26:51,960
Speaker 1: tracks that you can tell and like with ship or

2410
02:26:52,000 --> 02:26:54,000
Speaker 1: something near them that like, oh man, I fucking missed

2411
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:57,160
Speaker 1: that son of a bitch by like thirty seconds. Yeah yeah,

2412
02:26:57,240 --> 02:26:59,320
Speaker 1: and if if even if you drive around you'll see

2413
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:01,080
Speaker 1: just they're like, oh car, I'm out in five thousand

2414
02:27:01,120 --> 02:27:03,440
Speaker 1: that that don't need to be here. Sometimes they go

2415
02:27:03,440 --> 02:27:05,960
Speaker 1: across the road and hit him. That's the story. M

2416
02:27:08,080 --> 02:27:11,959
Speaker 1: yeah some states. Yeah, even sometimes it's bruce to heck.

2417
02:27:12,160 --> 02:27:13,960
Speaker 1: But that is how I get to eat some moose.

2418
02:27:13,959 --> 02:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Someone hit it with a car. Hell yeah. Um but um,

2419
02:27:18,040 --> 02:27:19,960
Speaker 1: so they don't like being in captivity at all. Not

2420
02:27:20,120 --> 02:27:22,600
Speaker 1: a fan, not a fan, and so they're very they're

2421
02:27:22,680 --> 02:27:25,440
Speaker 1: very stressed in captivity. And then like in the sixties

2422
02:27:25,520 --> 02:27:30,600
Speaker 1: in Colorado, um at on the Colorado University of Colorado,

2423
02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:34,000
Speaker 1: on their deer farm, they noticed like the deer were

2424
02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:37,800
Speaker 1: getting skinny and weird. And that's how that's where chronic

2425
02:27:37,840 --> 02:27:41,280
Speaker 1: wasting disease was discovered, because we tried to fucking farm

2426
02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:45,760
Speaker 1: an animal that's not okay, awesome, I love it. Yeah, yeah,

2427
02:27:46,160 --> 02:27:48,080
Speaker 1: there there are some folks who think that it's a

2428
02:27:48,200 --> 02:27:51,240
Speaker 1: natural thing. But it doesn't look like it doesn't look

2429
02:27:51,280 --> 02:27:54,200
Speaker 1: like it. Uh, no reports of it being around from

2430
02:27:54,280 --> 02:27:56,800
Speaker 1: before the sixties. And as we laid out, lots of

2431
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:58,560
Speaker 1: people ate a lot of deer and saw a lot

2432
02:27:58,600 --> 02:28:03,160
Speaker 1: of deer before the sixties, so probably came from farming servants.

2433
02:28:03,560 --> 02:28:07,480
Speaker 1: So then since then, um, there's the deer farming is

2434
02:28:07,520 --> 02:28:09,680
Speaker 1: not really regulated and also deer are not really easy

2435
02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:11,720
Speaker 1: to keep in captivity. They like to jump and like

2436
02:28:11,800 --> 02:28:13,880
Speaker 1: when fences, fences blow down, and so they'll get out

2437
02:28:14,480 --> 02:28:17,160
Speaker 1: of captivity. And like also other deer they like come

2438
02:28:17,240 --> 02:28:19,000
Speaker 1: up to you know, captive deer and they're like, yo,

2439
02:28:19,040 --> 02:28:21,720
Speaker 1: what's up with you? Though you're in a cage, huh,

2440
02:28:22,040 --> 02:28:23,959
Speaker 1: And so you can actually see them. They'll like interact

2441
02:28:23,959 --> 02:28:26,960
Speaker 1: through the fence. Um, and that's probably how it got

2442
02:28:27,000 --> 02:28:31,120
Speaker 1: out of containment, is through interactions and you know, servants

2443
02:28:31,160 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 1: being spread around the country. And so now chronic waste

2444
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:41,360
Speaker 1: disease is found in thirty states I think, four Canadian provinces, uh, Scandinavia,

2445
02:28:42,120 --> 02:28:45,439
Speaker 1: and Korea, so I think it's four or five countries.

2446
02:28:46,240 --> 02:28:48,800
Speaker 1: So so it's out there. It's out there, um, and

2447
02:28:48,879 --> 02:28:52,560
Speaker 1: it's it's infecting served populations across the US and across

2448
02:28:52,680 --> 02:28:57,320
Speaker 1: the across Canada, the world. Um. It's real bad. It's

2449
02:28:57,360 --> 02:29:00,879
Speaker 1: real bad. So it seems like a problem. Yeah. Yeah.

2450
02:29:01,320 --> 02:29:04,080
Speaker 1: So if you're a deer, what happens is you either

2451
02:29:04,240 --> 02:29:06,920
Speaker 1: interact with another to pick up chronic wasting disease. We'll

2452
02:29:06,920 --> 02:29:09,200
Speaker 1: go through the deer kind of the progression and deer

2453
02:29:09,879 --> 02:29:11,520
Speaker 1: to pick it up. Do you either interact with the

2454
02:29:11,560 --> 02:29:13,400
Speaker 1: deers that has chronic wasting disease. You go up and

2455
02:29:13,520 --> 02:29:15,440
Speaker 1: smell them, you look them a little bit. Deer groom

2456
02:29:15,480 --> 02:29:20,000
Speaker 1: each other, you know the animals. Um, you eat a

2457
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:22,920
Speaker 1: plant that another deer pooped on, Now it doesn't have

2458
02:29:23,000 --> 02:29:25,520
Speaker 1: to have pooped on that plant, So like this is

2459
02:29:25,640 --> 02:29:28,520
Speaker 1: a deal. It's effective with chronic chronic waste disease. Can

2460
02:29:28,560 --> 02:29:30,840
Speaker 1: poop in the soil and the plant will pick up

2461
02:29:31,040 --> 02:29:34,959
Speaker 1: the pryon from the soil and then yeah, and then

2462
02:29:34,959 --> 02:29:38,520
Speaker 1: another deers can come in. It can just spread. Yeah cool,

2463
02:29:39,000 --> 02:29:42,080
Speaker 1: that's that's some real scary yeah. Yeah. And it can

2464
02:29:42,120 --> 02:29:44,040
Speaker 1: also you can also pick it up from water, but

2465
02:29:44,120 --> 02:29:47,720
Speaker 1: it has Spreading in water is really tough. So um,

2466
02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:50,000
Speaker 1: those are your main vectors is you know, deer to

2467
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:53,880
Speaker 1: deer and environment to deer um. And that's why it's

2468
02:29:53,959 --> 02:29:56,000
Speaker 1: pretty tough to control once it gets into a state

2469
02:29:56,040 --> 02:29:58,560
Speaker 1: because to destroy it you have to dig up the

2470
02:29:58,640 --> 02:30:01,240
Speaker 1: soil and you have to burned a thousand degrees for

2471
02:30:01,280 --> 02:30:03,960
Speaker 1: an hour or you have to expose exposure to bleach

2472
02:30:04,000 --> 02:30:05,960
Speaker 1: for an hour to destroy the prion. Because it's not

2473
02:30:06,040 --> 02:30:08,480
Speaker 1: a living thing, it's a protein. Yeah, I mean, and

2474
02:30:08,560 --> 02:30:10,200
Speaker 1: there are a couple of towns that I would be

2475
02:30:10,280 --> 02:30:12,960
Speaker 1: okay doing that too, but on a wide scale that

2476
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:15,560
Speaker 1: seems difficult to pull off. Yeah. I can think of

2477
02:30:15,640 --> 02:30:18,040
Speaker 1: a state that starts with an O in an age

2478
02:30:18,080 --> 02:30:20,680
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't mind losing, you know, if we just

2479
02:30:20,800 --> 02:30:24,120
Speaker 1: were like, why not give it a shot? Right? Yeah,

2480
02:30:24,240 --> 02:30:26,560
Speaker 1: it's just Ohio, Come on, it's not it's not a

2481
02:30:26,680 --> 02:30:31,280
Speaker 1: real state. So in Dear, we're gonna just we're gonna

2482
02:30:31,280 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 1: stay just in the deer where we're not gonna get

2483
02:30:32,800 --> 02:30:35,879
Speaker 1: scary yet. So in in Dear, this slowly builds up

2484
02:30:35,920 --> 02:30:38,360
Speaker 1: throughout the population and you get worst case scenarios like

2485
02:30:38,480 --> 02:30:45,360
Speaker 1: in south western Wisconsin where like the deer harvested uh

2486
02:30:45,560 --> 02:30:48,720
Speaker 1: buck's harvested a year are positive for chronic wasting disease,

2487
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:52,720
Speaker 1: and because it's an always fatal you know, brain disease,

2488
02:30:53,240 --> 02:30:57,640
Speaker 1: you're looking at population collapse in extinction. Yeah, because it

2489
02:30:57,720 --> 02:31:00,080
Speaker 1: remains in the soil too, Like it's it's around or

2490
02:31:00,080 --> 02:31:02,760
Speaker 1: at least two probably more years. But the studies we've

2491
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:05,040
Speaker 1: done our only two years, because um, these are not

2492
02:31:05,200 --> 02:31:09,119
Speaker 1: fun things to study. People have died studying these diseases

2493
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:11,800
Speaker 1: from prions, like when they when they've done work on

2494
02:31:11,920 --> 02:31:16,039
Speaker 1: like BSc lab tech actually pricked herself with the tool

2495
02:31:16,680 --> 02:31:20,040
Speaker 1: uh and got um c j c j D and

2496
02:31:20,120 --> 02:31:24,120
Speaker 1: died from it. So yeah, they're not fun to study really,

2497
02:31:24,680 --> 02:31:27,240
Speaker 1: you know that's this is like we're talking like Martian

2498
02:31:27,440 --> 02:31:32,920
Speaker 1: suit style study stuff. It's not fun. So the stand

2499
02:31:33,080 --> 02:31:36,680
Speaker 1: level ship yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Yeah, so so like

2500
02:31:37,600 --> 02:31:42,080
Speaker 1: you know it without you know, when chronic wasting disease

2501
02:31:42,160 --> 02:31:45,080
Speaker 1: is not addressed into your populations, like in southeastern or

2502
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:48,600
Speaker 1: southwestern Wisconsin, you're looking at extinction level stuff because all

2503
02:31:48,680 --> 02:31:51,480
Speaker 1: of the deer that are out there are most you

2504
02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:55,040
Speaker 1: know them have chronic waste disease or at some point

2505
02:31:55,080 --> 02:31:57,840
Speaker 1: in getting chronic waste disease, which means that they're putting

2506
02:31:57,840 --> 02:32:00,200
Speaker 1: more and more of in the environment and they're more

2507
02:32:00,280 --> 02:32:02,120
Speaker 1: like if you're a non affected deer, you're you know,

2508
02:32:02,520 --> 02:32:04,320
Speaker 1: three cores, your buddies are infected, so you're going to

2509
02:32:04,360 --> 02:32:06,680
Speaker 1: get chronic wasting disease and be dead within two or

2510
02:32:06,720 --> 02:32:09,720
Speaker 1: three years. So you're looking at extinction of all servants

2511
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:12,040
Speaker 1: in that area for some amount of time until it

2512
02:32:12,080 --> 02:32:17,200
Speaker 1: comes out of the soil. That's bad. That is a problem. Yes, yeah, yeah,

2513
02:32:17,280 --> 02:32:20,480
Speaker 1: as we have established neither of us are dear, So

2514
02:32:21,480 --> 02:32:25,080
Speaker 1: why do we care? I mean outside of like the

2515
02:32:25,160 --> 02:32:29,480
Speaker 1: fact that deer are pretty important to the ecology of

2516
02:32:29,560 --> 02:32:32,000
Speaker 1: local areas and that that collapses bad. Yeah, why what

2517
02:32:32,200 --> 02:32:33,920
Speaker 1: is what is the problem? Like, what is the risks

2518
02:32:33,959 --> 02:32:37,200
Speaker 1: to human beings beyond that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, we put

2519
02:32:37,320 --> 02:32:40,000
Speaker 1: we put in college all aside all the time, like

2520
02:32:40,200 --> 02:32:43,240
Speaker 1: this is the world. We don't really care about that. Yeah,

2521
02:32:43,600 --> 02:32:45,800
Speaker 1: I ideal with what happened that you pretty college aside.

2522
02:32:45,800 --> 02:32:48,360
Speaker 1: So I'm super used to that that being done. So

2523
02:32:48,560 --> 02:32:53,520
Speaker 1: the risk is if it jumps into humans, because all

2524
02:32:53,600 --> 02:32:57,760
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have a disease that's really hard

2525
02:32:57,800 --> 02:33:00,880
Speaker 1: to detect that can live in the ironman that can

2526
02:33:00,959 --> 02:33:03,720
Speaker 1: be transferred from not just spinal fluid, but like if

2527
02:33:03,760 --> 02:33:06,240
Speaker 1: you eat a lot of infected meat from deer. You know,

2528
02:33:06,760 --> 02:33:09,160
Speaker 1: if you eat um, some of the organs you can

2529
02:33:09,200 --> 02:33:12,720
Speaker 1: get at a high risk. So so you know, all

2530
02:33:12,760 --> 02:33:14,560
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have a large portion of the

2531
02:33:14,600 --> 02:33:17,760
Speaker 1: population that could be exposed through direct consumption. But the

2532
02:33:17,840 --> 02:33:20,240
Speaker 1: other thing is is prions are really hard to kill.

2533
02:33:20,360 --> 02:33:22,360
Speaker 1: I said, they live in soil. They also live on

2534
02:33:22,440 --> 02:33:26,320
Speaker 1: steel surfaces, glass surfaces, every like surface that they've tested,

2535
02:33:26,400 --> 02:33:28,480
Speaker 1: like trying to kill prions, like you know, putting prions

2536
02:33:28,520 --> 02:33:30,360
Speaker 1: on seeing how long they live there hang out there.

2537
02:33:30,640 --> 02:33:32,800
Speaker 1: There was some surgical equipment that was infected with a

2538
02:33:32,879 --> 02:33:37,200
Speaker 1: prion gave someone chronic wasting not crying c j D

2539
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:40,680
Speaker 1: three years after using it out someone who had um

2540
02:33:41,080 --> 02:33:44,520
Speaker 1: c j D G. Yeah, and that's like you know,

2541
02:33:44,560 --> 02:33:46,760
Speaker 1: surgical great stainless steel stuff so like not supposed to

2542
02:33:46,800 --> 02:33:50,280
Speaker 1: hold things, gets like cleaned, but not like super like

2543
02:33:50,320 --> 02:33:52,039
Speaker 1: not prian level clean because they didn't know about at

2544
02:33:52,040 --> 02:33:55,520
Speaker 1: the time. So so there's there's the risk is is

2545
02:33:55,640 --> 02:33:58,640
Speaker 1: is it could potentially develop into a human something that

2546
02:33:58,720 --> 02:34:01,120
Speaker 1: impacts human's Like right now it hasn't. We do have

2547
02:34:01,280 --> 02:34:03,400
Speaker 1: eight different variations of it out there in the landscape,

2548
02:34:03,760 --> 02:34:09,200
Speaker 1: and as more and more deer exposed to it, what happens,

2549
02:34:10,879 --> 02:34:13,200
Speaker 1: we get more and more variations of it, because that's

2550
02:34:13,240 --> 02:34:17,080
Speaker 1: just what happens in nature. As we're all becoming familiar

2551
02:34:17,160 --> 02:34:20,000
Speaker 1: with with COVID. Yeah, it keeps changing because it's nothing

2552
02:34:20,080 --> 02:34:22,760
Speaker 1: has been done to stop it from spreading. Yeah, and

2553
02:34:22,840 --> 02:34:24,240
Speaker 1: like the only thing you can do to stop it

2554
02:34:24,360 --> 02:34:26,680
Speaker 1: is just like reduced deer numbers. You can't really eliminate

2555
02:34:26,720 --> 02:34:31,279
Speaker 1: out of the landscape because it's in the soil. Yeah,

2556
02:34:31,400 --> 02:34:33,920
Speaker 1: and you can't you can't test live dear for it.

2557
02:34:34,040 --> 02:34:36,000
Speaker 1: You gotta kill him to do it. There's they are developed.

2558
02:34:36,040 --> 02:34:39,800
Speaker 1: There are some tests being developed to determine if animals

2559
02:34:39,840 --> 02:34:44,360
Speaker 1: are infected UM that are faster, but you know, it's

2560
02:34:44,400 --> 02:34:47,119
Speaker 1: still it's still in progress. So that's called art quick.

2561
02:34:47,320 --> 02:34:50,400
Speaker 1: It's a protein test that's that's much faster than current testing,

2562
02:34:51,080 --> 02:34:54,520
Speaker 1: but it's still in progress. So the thing that really

2563
02:34:54,600 --> 02:34:58,240
Speaker 1: scares me is the other, well, the other thing about

2564
02:34:58,400 --> 02:35:00,800
Speaker 1: that makes chronic wasting to these different from you know

2565
02:35:01,040 --> 02:35:05,080
Speaker 1: BS mad cow diseases. Mad cow was in cows that

2566
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:10,600
Speaker 1: were in you know, captive spaces and you know, you

2567
02:35:10,680 --> 02:35:12,960
Speaker 1: know where the cows are. Yeah, it's a problem, but

2568
02:35:13,080 --> 02:35:16,560
Speaker 1: it's a problem that you can, like with enough fire

2569
02:35:16,760 --> 02:35:20,720
Speaker 1: and or other tools eradicate. Yeah. Yeah, And it didn't

2570
02:35:20,879 --> 02:35:23,360
Speaker 1: it didn't seem to be you know, very president soil.

2571
02:35:23,480 --> 02:35:25,000
Speaker 1: And it was like you had defeat dead cows to

2572
02:35:25,040 --> 02:35:28,680
Speaker 1: dead cow to live cows to get them infected. Chronic

2573
02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:33,200
Speaker 1: waste disease is a different beast UM. So the real

2574
02:35:33,480 --> 02:35:36,320
Speaker 1: scary potential here is that it's in soil so you

2575
02:35:36,360 --> 02:35:38,720
Speaker 1: can get into plants, and we know that plants get

2576
02:35:38,800 --> 02:35:42,680
Speaker 1: transmit chronic waste disease other deer, so it could you know,

2577
02:35:42,760 --> 02:35:46,160
Speaker 1: transmitted to other animals like things that eat plants. You know,

2578
02:35:46,240 --> 02:35:48,800
Speaker 1: for example, you and I eat plants. If you're an American,

2579
02:35:49,440 --> 02:35:52,360
Speaker 1: you eat corn and a couple of different forms. Um,

2580
02:35:52,840 --> 02:35:56,480
Speaker 1: dear love hanging out in corn fields. Oh yeah, So

2581
02:35:57,240 --> 02:36:00,440
Speaker 1: there is an exposure vector right there. And you know

2582
02:36:01,640 --> 02:36:05,000
Speaker 1: when you're doing when you're processing cornate corncer Let's say, um,

2583
02:36:05,240 --> 02:36:06,640
Speaker 1: you take a bunch of corn from a bunch of

2584
02:36:06,720 --> 02:36:08,720
Speaker 1: the places. Uh sposh it up, grind it up. You know,

2585
02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:10,160
Speaker 1: you do a bunch of stuff to it in on

2586
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:13,280
Speaker 1: steel surfaces and you don't need to a thousand degrees

2587
02:36:13,320 --> 02:36:15,240
Speaker 1: for an hour. So all of a sudden you have

2588
02:36:15,480 --> 02:36:17,680
Speaker 1: like a case of sota that could be infected with

2589
02:36:17,840 --> 02:36:22,840
Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease. There's the potential, the big potential damage

2590
02:36:22,959 --> 02:36:25,880
Speaker 1: if this ship jumps to people, which it hasn't yet.

2591
02:36:26,040 --> 02:36:27,640
Speaker 1: I want to be really clear about that, so we're

2592
02:36:27,720 --> 02:36:31,040
Speaker 1: not causing to but if it does, the containment thing

2593
02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:35,080
Speaker 1: is like even in order of magnitude beyond fucking COVID ship, right,

2594
02:36:35,200 --> 02:36:37,680
Speaker 1: like it's because it's spread through the soil, it gets

2595
02:36:37,760 --> 02:36:41,840
Speaker 1: into the fucking basic ingredients of food, and we we

2596
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:45,040
Speaker 1: simply the way that we process that stuff isn't set

2597
02:36:45,120 --> 02:36:47,720
Speaker 1: up in a way that will eliminate it right now. Yeah,

2598
02:36:47,840 --> 02:36:50,080
Speaker 1: and I would tell you you really can't on a

2599
02:36:50,200 --> 02:36:55,480
Speaker 1: large scale like process anything that's then make it safe

2600
02:36:55,560 --> 02:36:59,000
Speaker 1: from you know, like chronic wasting disease, because you have

2601
02:36:59,040 --> 02:37:00,760
Speaker 1: to like you know, if you if you like cut

2602
02:37:00,879 --> 02:37:02,920
Speaker 1: up like let's let's let's go back to like assuming

2603
02:37:03,200 --> 02:37:05,240
Speaker 1: like you know, it's just in you you're handling an

2604
02:37:05,240 --> 02:37:07,879
Speaker 1: affected deer. If you cut that deer up, you use

2605
02:37:07,920 --> 02:37:10,400
Speaker 1: your knife, you gotta put it in bleach for an

2606
02:37:10,440 --> 02:37:12,840
Speaker 1: hour and then you can come back to bleak is

2607
02:37:12,879 --> 02:37:16,080
Speaker 1: really corrosive, so eventually destroy your knife. There's there's your

2608
02:37:16,240 --> 02:37:17,879
Speaker 1: end thing there. But you can also be through your hands,

2609
02:37:17,959 --> 02:37:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, touching it you can get it. Um. Yeah,

2610
02:37:20,600 --> 02:37:22,240
Speaker 1: So there's this's a scary part there. I mean, like

2611
02:37:22,360 --> 02:37:24,160
Speaker 1: you like, as you point out and I start, I

2612
02:37:24,200 --> 02:37:26,480
Speaker 1: really totally failed on my part to menion. It hasn't

2613
02:37:26,520 --> 02:37:29,680
Speaker 1: jumped to humans. Yes not. We are not saying you

2614
02:37:29,800 --> 02:37:32,040
Speaker 1: are going to get the disease tomorrow. That is not.

2615
02:37:32,600 --> 02:37:36,280
Speaker 1: But it also like isn't it like there's nothing that

2616
02:37:36,360 --> 02:37:40,680
Speaker 1: says it can't jump to humans right right right exactly. So, UM,

2617
02:37:41,280 --> 02:37:44,000
Speaker 1: there have been a number of like three or four.

2618
02:37:44,160 --> 02:37:46,520
Speaker 1: There is two studies I know if I there's a

2619
02:37:46,600 --> 02:37:49,720
Speaker 1: third one I've heard about. UM looking at if you know,

2620
02:37:49,920 --> 02:37:53,240
Speaker 1: human like animals can get chronic waste and disease. So

2621
02:37:53,320 --> 02:37:56,600
Speaker 1: that's macaques, which are a kind of monkey. UM. And

2622
02:37:56,680 --> 02:37:59,520
Speaker 1: when they have been fed chronic you know, meat and

2623
02:37:59,560 --> 02:38:04,320
Speaker 1: infected chronic waste disease UM, and they were exposed to blood,

2624
02:38:04,800 --> 02:38:07,120
Speaker 1: they were fed it, they were exposed to blood and

2625
02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:09,080
Speaker 1: so it was just injected right into the back of

2626
02:38:09,120 --> 02:38:12,840
Speaker 1: their brain stem um. The monkey's got chronic wasting disease.

2627
02:38:14,440 --> 02:38:17,480
Speaker 1: So it looks like it's possible. UM. And then also hamsters,

2628
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:19,720
Speaker 1: which are also used as a human standing have also

2629
02:38:19,840 --> 02:38:24,320
Speaker 1: been fed meat infected with chronic wasting disease and they

2630
02:38:24,400 --> 02:38:25,960
Speaker 1: were able to get it, and they really get it

2631
02:38:26,040 --> 02:38:29,520
Speaker 1: from a number of different sources. UM. There are some

2632
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:32,720
Speaker 1: really like fun and by fun, I mean scary papers

2633
02:38:32,760 --> 02:38:35,600
Speaker 1: out there about like all the ways like chronic wasting

2634
02:38:35,680 --> 02:38:40,360
Speaker 1: disease moves around and survives. Uh. And the studies about

2635
02:38:40,520 --> 02:38:44,119
Speaker 1: like using human standings are not always fun to read,

2636
02:38:45,440 --> 02:38:47,879
Speaker 1: and this is this is definitely one of those things

2637
02:38:47,959 --> 02:38:51,160
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, what is the other option other

2638
02:38:51,240 --> 02:38:54,000
Speaker 1: than yeah, you have to try it on ship? That's yeah,

2639
02:38:54,120 --> 02:38:57,720
Speaker 1: that's that's very unsettling, But like, yeah, what else are

2640
02:38:57,760 --> 02:39:00,880
Speaker 1: you gonna do? Like, have you this is something you

2641
02:39:00,959 --> 02:39:05,280
Speaker 1: do have to know? Yeah, yeah, and um. The other

2642
02:39:05,360 --> 02:39:09,640
Speaker 1: problem with prions is detection when it comes to like,

2643
02:39:09,760 --> 02:39:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, different species, because it presents like Alzheimer's and

2644
02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:15,440
Speaker 1: so the only way you know that something got up

2645
02:39:15,480 --> 02:39:18,640
Speaker 1: prion disease is if you cut their head. If you

2646
02:39:18,720 --> 02:39:21,959
Speaker 1: cut its head open, you look at its brain. So um.

2647
02:39:22,440 --> 02:39:25,080
Speaker 1: When and in humans, it can take a long time

2648
02:39:25,200 --> 02:39:27,680
Speaker 1: for these symptoms to present, I think, like if you

2649
02:39:27,720 --> 02:39:29,520
Speaker 1: look it up on Wikipedia, it's is like the average

2650
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:34,600
Speaker 1: like age detection is sixty years and then we're good fine. Yeah. Yeah.

2651
02:39:34,879 --> 02:39:37,520
Speaker 1: The researchers that I've spoken to say it takes like

2652
02:39:37,680 --> 02:39:40,480
Speaker 1: forty years for enough prions to build up in your

2653
02:39:40,480 --> 02:39:43,600
Speaker 1: brain for it to like, you know, start to show symptoms,

2654
02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:48,120
Speaker 1: so you know if it is to jump, if it jumps,

2655
02:39:48,160 --> 02:39:51,119
Speaker 1: the species bearer the first time we detected will probably

2656
02:39:51,160 --> 02:39:54,480
Speaker 1: not be the first time anyone has been infected. Yeah,

2657
02:39:54,640 --> 02:39:57,879
Speaker 1: it will already have spread quite widely and then people

2658
02:39:57,959 --> 02:40:00,960
Speaker 1: will hopefully not but yeah, so so that that's the

2659
02:40:01,000 --> 02:40:03,640
Speaker 1: scary part. That that's the human side scary part. But

2660
02:40:04,040 --> 02:40:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, we don't always have to keep human side scary. Sometimes.

2661
02:40:06,800 --> 02:40:09,640
Speaker 1: You know, things work in you know, monkeys and hamsters

2662
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:12,000
Speaker 1: that don't work in humans. And we've cured cancer, you know,

2663
02:40:12,120 --> 02:40:15,920
Speaker 1: hundreds of times in mice, right yeah, and in humans

2664
02:40:15,959 --> 02:40:17,840
Speaker 1: it's a lot harder to do because we're not mice,

2665
02:40:17,959 --> 02:40:20,520
Speaker 1: we're not monkeys, we're humans. So it doesn't always work

2666
02:40:20,600 --> 02:40:23,400
Speaker 1: like that. But the the other scary part is when

2667
02:40:23,440 --> 02:40:28,240
Speaker 1: it comes to agriculture and the impact on agriculture. So

2668
02:40:29,280 --> 02:40:32,160
Speaker 1: pigs can pick up chronic wasting disease there what's called

2669
02:40:32,200 --> 02:40:34,720
Speaker 1: a prian amplifier, so they can pick it up. They

2670
02:40:34,800 --> 02:40:36,680
Speaker 1: can like you know, hangs out in them, just find

2671
02:40:36,720 --> 02:40:43,959
Speaker 1: it doesn't kill pigs at all. They can people. That's true.

2672
02:40:44,280 --> 02:40:47,600
Speaker 1: That's the truth right there, that's the truth. Yeah. So

2673
02:40:48,160 --> 02:40:51,879
Speaker 1: so you know, if if it you know, as people,

2674
02:40:52,280 --> 02:40:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, government's become more aware of it and more

2675
02:40:54,600 --> 02:40:58,160
Speaker 1: concerned about it. There there's the real possibility of you know,

2676
02:40:58,240 --> 02:41:03,080
Speaker 1: agricultural exports get hammered on, you know, exporting it because

2677
02:41:03,160 --> 02:41:06,120
Speaker 1: you know other countries you know, are concerned about spreading it.

2678
02:41:06,200 --> 02:41:07,959
Speaker 1: So right now, you know it's pretty hard to well,

2679
02:41:08,040 --> 02:41:11,600
Speaker 1: it's getting increasingly the harder to export live dear probably

2680
02:41:11,640 --> 02:41:15,160
Speaker 1: should be Probably farming service is not a great idea

2681
02:41:15,280 --> 02:41:19,160
Speaker 1: for their health and ours. But um, you know, also

2682
02:41:19,240 --> 02:41:21,640
Speaker 1: there's the concern about spread. So if if chronic wasting

2683
02:41:21,680 --> 02:41:24,760
Speaker 1: disease is you know, crosses from humans to cows like

2684
02:41:24,840 --> 02:41:27,600
Speaker 1: we've seen, you know, like if you know BSc just

2685
02:41:27,640 --> 02:41:30,680
Speaker 1: pops up in some cows, you know that might be

2686
02:41:30,760 --> 02:41:33,520
Speaker 1: from chronic waste disease, and the impact that is going

2687
02:41:33,560 --> 02:41:36,160
Speaker 1: to be huge. I mean Canada they were shut out

2688
02:41:36,160 --> 02:41:39,120
Speaker 1: of the Japanese market for fourteen years, like Japanese beef

2689
02:41:39,160 --> 02:41:41,800
Speaker 1: market for fourteen years following a case of mad cow

2690
02:41:41,840 --> 02:41:44,640
Speaker 1: disease and two thousand and six they got let back

2691
02:41:44,680 --> 02:41:47,000
Speaker 1: in two years ago and the studies and that was

2692
02:41:47,040 --> 02:41:49,200
Speaker 1: like a couple of billion dollars in damage to the

2693
02:41:49,240 --> 02:41:54,520
Speaker 1: Canadian beef market. So you know, and that was BSc,

2694
02:41:54,680 --> 02:41:57,600
Speaker 1: which does not do it doesn't transfer via plant, So

2695
02:41:57,640 --> 02:42:00,600
Speaker 1: imagine it is the US, you know, agricultural sport market

2696
02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:05,920
Speaker 1: market got shut down for plants that like economic damage

2697
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:09,840
Speaker 1: is incalculable. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the scary part of

2698
02:42:09,840 --> 02:42:12,560
Speaker 1: electronic wasting disease. Those are all the scarinesses. That's what

2699
02:42:12,680 --> 02:42:16,560
Speaker 1: keeps me up at night. This is frightening and important

2700
02:42:16,600 --> 02:42:19,040
Speaker 1: for people to be aware of because it's a serious threat.

2701
02:42:19,680 --> 02:42:23,720
Speaker 1: Are there things that can be done at the moment? Like,

2702
02:42:23,959 --> 02:42:26,680
Speaker 1: is there is there inactionable You're not just like not

2703
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:29,040
Speaker 1: on a what can our audience do? But like, is

2704
02:42:29,120 --> 02:42:33,240
Speaker 1: there a thing that could potentially be done by you know,

2705
02:42:33,400 --> 02:42:35,880
Speaker 1: states or the federal government never that would help this?

2706
02:42:36,080 --> 02:42:38,560
Speaker 1: Like is there actually do we do it? Do we

2707
02:42:38,640 --> 02:42:40,440
Speaker 1: have any fucking idea of like what could be done

2708
02:42:40,480 --> 02:42:43,000
Speaker 1: to make it less likely for the kind of nightmare

2709
02:42:43,040 --> 02:42:45,880
Speaker 1: scenarios that we've alluded to to occur here. Yeah. So

2710
02:42:46,280 --> 02:42:48,560
Speaker 1: the best kit, you know, the best things we can

2711
02:42:48,640 --> 02:42:51,720
Speaker 1: do are to you know, hunt deer, reduced der population,

2712
02:42:51,760 --> 02:42:54,080
Speaker 1: so that way you're you know, taking deer out that

2713
02:42:54,160 --> 02:42:57,400
Speaker 1: might be infected. And when you hunt deer in most

2714
02:42:57,480 --> 02:42:59,959
Speaker 1: areas that infected you, there's a you test them for free,

2715
02:43:00,000 --> 02:43:02,600
Speaker 1: you with your state or various authorities, and so then

2716
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:05,400
Speaker 1: those carcasses are destroyed, so you can remove you know,

2717
02:43:05,480 --> 02:43:07,800
Speaker 1: disease off the landscape that way. Um. And then by

2718
02:43:07,840 --> 02:43:10,880
Speaker 1: also just hunting deer, you reduce population levels and so

2719
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:12,960
Speaker 1: you make it you make the disease loading in the

2720
02:43:13,040 --> 02:43:16,320
Speaker 1: landscape lower and it less likely to spread, you know,

2721
02:43:16,400 --> 02:43:18,640
Speaker 1: both to other deers and then potentially vector to other

2722
02:43:18,720 --> 02:43:22,959
Speaker 1: animals exposed to other animals. Um. Excuse me. New York

2723
02:43:23,040 --> 02:43:24,600
Speaker 1: is a great example of this. They had a case

2724
02:43:24,640 --> 02:43:27,879
Speaker 1: of chronic waste and disease pop up, took it out really,

2725
02:43:28,120 --> 02:43:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, hunted that area hard. I think that they

2726
02:43:29,920 --> 02:43:33,000
Speaker 1: even brought in professionals and did some real serious deer

2727
02:43:33,040 --> 02:43:36,080
Speaker 1: reduction and they haven't had a case since. So you know,

2728
02:43:36,840 --> 02:43:38,840
Speaker 1: in areas where it pops up, you can just hammer

2729
02:43:38,879 --> 02:43:42,879
Speaker 1: it with you know, lethal removal of animals, harvesting whatever,

2730
02:43:43,440 --> 02:43:47,039
Speaker 1: and um, you can prevent spread um, and you cannot

2731
02:43:47,200 --> 02:43:48,680
Speaker 1: you can really not get back the other thing we

2732
02:43:48,720 --> 02:43:50,920
Speaker 1: got to do. We need to be very serious about

2733
02:43:51,040 --> 02:43:53,520
Speaker 1: we need to take the captive servant industry. So I've

2734
02:43:53,560 --> 02:43:54,920
Speaker 1: used the word server a couple of times. I never

2735
02:43:54,959 --> 02:43:58,320
Speaker 1: defined it, my apologies. Servants are members of the deer family,

2736
02:43:58,400 --> 02:44:01,560
Speaker 1: so elk moose yeah, seek a deer. All those guys

2737
02:44:01,720 --> 02:44:03,840
Speaker 1: read deer fatility or what a bunch of them? Um,

2738
02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:06,600
Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we're very closely regulating

2739
02:44:06,640 --> 02:44:09,920
Speaker 1: that industry because of the potential spread. There was a

2740
02:44:10,000 --> 02:44:14,039
Speaker 1: farmer in Wisconsin that sent like almost four hundred different

2741
02:44:14,160 --> 02:44:17,800
Speaker 1: infected deer to like a hundred nineties seven different farms

2742
02:44:18,400 --> 02:44:22,360
Speaker 1: UM over the course of like four years. So you know,

2743
02:44:23,120 --> 02:44:27,240
Speaker 1: it's regulation is incredibly important. UM, and it's it's rarely.

2744
02:44:27,480 --> 02:44:30,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's not really enough on most farms. My

2745
02:44:30,560 --> 02:44:34,320
Speaker 1: home state here we have UM. You know, if you

2746
02:44:34,760 --> 02:44:37,000
Speaker 1: make less than ten thousand dollars from your servant farm,

2747
02:44:37,080 --> 02:44:38,520
Speaker 1: you don't have to report it, you don't have to

2748
02:44:38,560 --> 02:44:41,400
Speaker 1: track it or anything. That's a real problem because we

2749
02:44:41,680 --> 02:44:45,680
Speaker 1: are experiencing expanding chronic waste disease. So regulation, you know,

2750
02:44:45,959 --> 02:44:50,080
Speaker 1: that's fun. Maybe we just shouldn't be farming servants. Maybe

2751
02:44:50,160 --> 02:44:53,560
Speaker 1: that's bad. Yeah. I don't disagree with you at all there. Yeah,

2752
02:44:54,320 --> 02:44:57,800
Speaker 1: not not a fan. Yeah. From the ethical standpoint too,

2753
02:44:58,040 --> 02:45:02,039
Speaker 1: there's there's many I raise a several different I raised

2754
02:45:02,480 --> 02:45:06,120
Speaker 1: bunnies and chickens and goats, and I help raise sheep

2755
02:45:06,920 --> 02:45:10,360
Speaker 1: for for meat. Uh, there's plenty of different things that

2756
02:45:10,440 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 1: you can raise for meat that are used to it

2757
02:45:13,480 --> 02:45:16,320
Speaker 1: because we've been raising them for meat for like tens

2758
02:45:16,360 --> 02:45:19,279
Speaker 1: of thousands of fucking years. Like the sheep. I have orangoras,

2759
02:45:19,280 --> 02:45:21,680
Speaker 1: which I didn't go back like twenty thirty thousand years,

2760
02:45:21,800 --> 02:45:24,960
Speaker 1: Like they're they're they're they're meant for it. We have

2761
02:45:25,200 --> 02:45:27,840
Speaker 1: changed them into animals that are supposed to be raised

2762
02:45:27,920 --> 02:45:31,000
Speaker 1: for meat. Don't take new animals and try to farm

2763
02:45:31,040 --> 02:45:34,160
Speaker 1: them like that because it seems like it causes problems. Yeah, well,

2764
02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:36,400
Speaker 1: there's a really neat there's a really neat work out

2765
02:45:36,520 --> 02:45:40,240
Speaker 1: there about the about domestications stress and like you know,

2766
02:45:40,480 --> 02:45:44,400
Speaker 1: domestic kids sheep don't care about being domesticated, whereas like

2767
02:45:44,520 --> 02:45:47,080
Speaker 1: they've compared like domesticate cheap to wild cheep. Wild sheep

2768
02:45:47,200 --> 02:45:49,879
Speaker 1: die really quick when you put the domestication from the stress.

2769
02:45:49,920 --> 02:45:52,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, like you said, uh, maybe maybe we don't

2770
02:45:52,360 --> 02:45:53,760
Speaker 1: Maybe we don't play around with some of these animals

2771
02:45:53,800 --> 02:45:55,640
Speaker 1: to try to force them to do human what we

2772
02:45:55,840 --> 02:45:57,920
Speaker 1: humans want them to do. You know, it's okay for

2773
02:45:57,959 --> 02:46:02,480
Speaker 1: animals to just be animals. Wrong with that? Um. Yeah,

2774
02:46:02,560 --> 02:46:05,280
Speaker 1: So the other thing, there was a large amount of

2775
02:46:05,320 --> 02:46:07,840
Speaker 1: money set aside, and I can't remember which legislative packager

2776
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:10,480
Speaker 1: was they got defeated a while back that put money

2777
02:46:10,520 --> 02:46:14,240
Speaker 1: towards chronic wasting disease research. So you know, legislators and

2778
02:46:14,320 --> 02:46:16,200
Speaker 1: states can be you know, legislatures and government can be

2779
02:46:16,240 --> 02:46:19,520
Speaker 1: taken seriously putting money towards it. Right now, it's there's

2780
02:46:19,560 --> 02:46:21,440
Speaker 1: not a lot of money going towards it because it's like, yeah,

2781
02:46:21,440 --> 02:46:24,000
Speaker 1: it's a zombie deer thing, who cares. Yeah, well, you

2782
02:46:24,440 --> 02:46:27,000
Speaker 1: could get into this is not just a problem for

2783
02:46:27,080 --> 02:46:31,920
Speaker 1: deer hunters. This could be a real issue for everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

2784
02:46:33,280 --> 02:46:35,280
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, I mean it's kind of like

2785
02:46:35,320 --> 02:46:38,320
Speaker 1: a larger symptomatic thing too. We don't really take environmental

2786
02:46:38,360 --> 02:46:43,680
Speaker 1: problems that seriously. Um yeah, yeah, I mean the yeah,

2787
02:46:43,720 --> 02:46:45,440
Speaker 1: the scary thing about this is we don't treat the

2788
02:46:45,520 --> 02:46:48,680
Speaker 1: environmental problem seriously. When everyone's saying, like, hey, the consequence

2789
02:46:48,760 --> 02:46:52,360
Speaker 1: is that like all of Florida will be uninhabitable, right, Like,

2790
02:46:52,440 --> 02:46:55,400
Speaker 1: we don't take that seriously. So when you're saying, this

2791
02:46:55,560 --> 02:47:00,400
Speaker 1: is much wonkier, which is definitely a barrier to effective action. Yeah,

2792
02:47:00,440 --> 02:47:03,440
Speaker 1: I did a legislative testimony about chronic wasting disease a

2793
02:47:03,480 --> 02:47:05,959
Speaker 1: couple of months back, and no one was paying attention,

2794
02:47:06,280 --> 02:47:07,680
Speaker 1: but you know, it made me feel good. I was

2795
02:47:07,720 --> 02:47:09,760
Speaker 1: doing something. Oh he was a fun thing about Florida

2796
02:47:09,760 --> 02:47:12,200
Speaker 1: and chronic waste disease. So Florida, you know, full of

2797
02:47:12,240 --> 02:47:15,720
Speaker 1: invasive species. Obviously it has chronic waste disease. Like it's

2798
02:47:15,720 --> 02:47:18,760
Speaker 1: a Florida obviously gotta pick up a new disease. You

2799
02:47:18,840 --> 02:47:25,080
Speaker 1: know what else is in Florida Colonies of macaques. There's

2800
02:47:25,120 --> 02:47:29,680
Speaker 1: like two colonies of I was unaware of that. Yeah,

2801
02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:32,920
Speaker 1: was it because people were an ill advisedly keeping pets.

2802
02:47:33,600 --> 02:47:35,120
Speaker 1: I think one of them started that way, and I

2803
02:47:35,200 --> 02:47:38,560
Speaker 1: think one of them was like some monkeys that have

2804
02:47:38,640 --> 02:47:40,960
Speaker 1: been like kept for testing or zoo stuff escaped. But

2805
02:47:41,040 --> 02:47:43,400
Speaker 1: there are at least like two like colonies of like

2806
02:47:43,560 --> 02:47:46,520
Speaker 1: maccas in Florida, which also has chronic waste disease. So

2807
02:47:47,000 --> 02:47:49,600
Speaker 1: you know there's I don't think the chronic they're like

2808
02:47:49,720 --> 02:47:51,800
Speaker 1: near the Everglades. I don't think chronic waste disease made

2809
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:54,040
Speaker 1: that far south of Florida. So there's a there's a

2810
02:47:54,080 --> 02:47:57,199
Speaker 1: fun possibility of the lab experiments under highly control conditions

2811
02:47:57,240 --> 02:48:00,920
Speaker 1: getting um, you know, performed in in the wild setting.

2812
02:48:01,000 --> 02:48:03,160
Speaker 1: We could see if if mccax can pick up chronic

2813
02:48:03,200 --> 02:48:06,040
Speaker 1: waste disease in the wild. Um, there's a there's a

2814
02:48:06,080 --> 02:48:09,640
Speaker 1: fun research project for someone who uh, you know is

2815
02:48:09,680 --> 02:48:15,040
Speaker 1: able to handle dark sides of things. Yeah, thank you Florida. Um.

2816
02:48:15,360 --> 02:48:19,080
Speaker 1: But more importantly, thank you flow right. Uh. And a

2817
02:48:19,160 --> 02:48:21,680
Speaker 1: lot of people are unaware of this was just a

2818
02:48:21,760 --> 02:48:25,240
Speaker 1: couple of years ago in the Eurovision Song Awards representing

2819
02:48:25,320 --> 02:48:31,640
Speaker 1: San Marino. So you know, twenty two overall not bad. Yeah,

2820
02:48:31,800 --> 02:48:37,240
Speaker 1: that's pretty good, better than I could do. Good day.

2821
02:48:38,240 --> 02:48:40,680
Speaker 1: And also, you are not technically a citizen of the

2822
02:48:40,760 --> 02:48:44,720
Speaker 1: Republic of San Marino. No, but yet they offered me citizenship.

2823
02:48:44,760 --> 02:48:47,320
Speaker 1: I would consider it absolutely. Who wouldn't want to be

2824
02:48:47,400 --> 02:48:50,920
Speaker 1: a citizen of the most serene Republic of San Marino. Yeah,

2825
02:48:51,000 --> 02:48:53,920
Speaker 1: I I've looked at Andorra, so you know it would

2826
02:48:53,920 --> 02:48:56,720
Speaker 1: be a really we're looking at European micro nations. I mean,

2827
02:48:56,760 --> 02:48:59,640
Speaker 1: if and door came knock in versus San Marino, obviously

2828
02:48:59,720 --> 02:49:01,760
Speaker 1: sam Real is getting kicked to the curb. I love

2829
02:49:01,840 --> 02:49:05,280
Speaker 1: that like dual like government between the President of France

2830
02:49:05,280 --> 02:49:08,800
Speaker 1: and like the Pope of or not the Bishop. It's

2831
02:49:08,840 --> 02:49:11,320
Speaker 1: like a bishop of like somewhere in Italy. Yeah, it's

2832
02:49:11,480 --> 02:49:14,640
Speaker 1: very funny. Um yeah, you gotta love those weird little

2833
02:49:14,680 --> 02:49:21,040
Speaker 1: micro republics. Huge fan. Yeah. Um, so okay, well this

2834
02:49:21,160 --> 02:49:25,360
Speaker 1: has been great. Yeah, I'm glad this is happening. Yeah. Yeah,

2835
02:49:25,400 --> 02:49:28,120
Speaker 1: it's cool and fun. Yeah. I'm not usually fun to

2836
02:49:28,160 --> 02:49:31,440
Speaker 1: hang out with when I talk about work stuff, I know,

2837
02:49:31,680 --> 02:49:34,400
Speaker 1: but it's like it's again, people need to be aware

2838
02:49:34,440 --> 02:49:36,920
Speaker 1: of this, Like this is one of those just in

2839
02:49:37,000 --> 02:49:39,600
Speaker 1: the same way that like people were talking about for

2840
02:49:39,800 --> 02:49:42,680
Speaker 1: years prior to COVID. Hey, we we actually really need

2841
02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:44,960
Speaker 1: to be aware, like a coronavirus could break out and

2842
02:49:45,040 --> 02:49:47,320
Speaker 1: it will spread really quickly due to the way that

2843
02:49:47,400 --> 02:49:50,680
Speaker 1: global travel and transit and stuff works, and it'll be

2844
02:49:50,720 --> 02:49:54,520
Speaker 1: almost impossible to control. Um, you know, we should we

2845
02:49:54,560 --> 02:49:58,119
Speaker 1: should build structures into our societies to make it easier

2846
02:49:58,200 --> 02:50:00,760
Speaker 1: for us to deal with a coronavirus, which we didn't do,

2847
02:50:01,040 --> 02:50:04,000
Speaker 1: but maybe we'll do it this time. Yeah, well what

2848
02:50:04,160 --> 02:50:06,199
Speaker 1: makes it really fun? I'm just gonna I'm gonna build

2849
02:50:06,200 --> 02:50:09,000
Speaker 1: off you for a second. You've fallen into my trap here.

2850
02:50:09,400 --> 02:50:12,680
Speaker 1: The same people who were writing about like mers and

2851
02:50:12,920 --> 02:50:16,880
Speaker 1: predicted you know, I can't remember which game first merser Stars,

2852
02:50:17,080 --> 02:50:19,119
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one. The same people who predicted

2853
02:50:19,200 --> 02:50:22,840
Speaker 1: that and then who are also predicting um COVID are

2854
02:50:22,920 --> 02:50:26,240
Speaker 1: also talking about chronic wasting disease. So it's like, you know,

2855
02:50:26,760 --> 02:50:28,600
Speaker 1: I really hope you don't get to be right on

2856
02:50:28,680 --> 02:50:31,000
Speaker 1: this one. You know, I just want you to lose

2857
02:50:31,120 --> 02:50:33,560
Speaker 1: one of these times here, Bud. You're a nice guy,

2858
02:50:33,800 --> 02:50:37,040
Speaker 1: real smart guy, but can you be wrong occasionally, just

2859
02:50:37,240 --> 02:50:39,360
Speaker 1: for just for like you know, old time's sake. Just

2860
02:50:39,480 --> 02:50:48,280
Speaker 1: be nice to me. Yeah, well, there we go. Um,

2861
02:50:48,680 --> 02:50:52,080
Speaker 1: that's been a fun episode. Everybody have a good time. Um,

2862
02:50:52,440 --> 02:50:54,560
Speaker 1: thank you, Calvin. Do you have anything you want to

2863
02:50:54,600 --> 02:50:56,680
Speaker 1: like plug before we roll out here? Yeah? I would

2864
02:50:56,720 --> 02:51:00,800
Speaker 1: like to plug. Trees' is real neat try that we

2865
02:51:00,920 --> 02:51:05,680
Speaker 1: are supported by trees. Um, not the plant, but a

2866
02:51:05,760 --> 02:51:08,600
Speaker 1: club in Dallas that I took ecstasy at once. That's

2867
02:51:08,600 --> 02:51:12,160
Speaker 1: a primary sponsors physically supported by trees. My computers on

2868
02:51:12,240 --> 02:51:15,960
Speaker 1: wood so oh excellent? Yeah? Is that also good? Yeah,

2869
02:51:16,320 --> 02:51:18,600
Speaker 1: trees like to plug. Also getting outside, that's good for you?

2870
02:51:18,760 --> 02:51:23,440
Speaker 1: Do that consolutely get outside for sure? Yeah. Uh. Tweet

2871
02:51:23,480 --> 02:51:26,640
Speaker 1: tweets from from birds. I don't do the twitters, not

2872
02:51:26,840 --> 02:51:30,600
Speaker 1: not from Twitter yes, definitely. Yeah, those are things that

2873
02:51:30,600 --> 02:51:33,560
Speaker 1: I'd like to plug. Yeah, Replacing the tweets from Twitter

2874
02:51:33,680 --> 02:51:36,280
Speaker 1: that you encounter with tweets from birds is probably among

2875
02:51:36,360 --> 02:51:38,240
Speaker 1: the best things you can do for your mental health,

2876
02:51:39,879 --> 02:51:41,880
Speaker 1: unless it's this one bird that lived outside of my

2877
02:51:41,920 --> 02:51:45,959
Speaker 1: apartment in Los Angeles. But anyway, um well, Calvin, thank

2878
02:51:46,000 --> 02:51:49,640
Speaker 1: you for coming on. I appreciate your expertise, even though

2879
02:51:49,760 --> 02:51:55,400
Speaker 1: it's always deeply unsettling. Um that's gonna do it for

2880
02:51:55,600 --> 02:51:58,840
Speaker 1: all of us here today. And it could happen here,

2881
02:51:58,959 --> 02:52:18,000
Speaker 1: by which I mean you would me, oh boy, it

2882
02:52:18,240 --> 02:52:22,960
Speaker 1: is behind the it happened could here. I'm Evans Robert

2883
02:52:23,440 --> 02:52:30,640
Speaker 1: podcast song. Hello, who else is on the call? What

2884
02:52:30,720 --> 02:52:37,200
Speaker 1: are we doing? Where are we? It's it's it's me. Uh,

2885
02:52:37,440 --> 02:52:40,880
Speaker 1: It's Christopher Wong. I'm gonna talk a lot this episode.

2886
02:52:41,000 --> 02:52:43,800
Speaker 1: There's also other people are here you are now. Before

2887
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:46,440
Speaker 1: we get into that, I should note that we were

2888
02:52:46,480 --> 02:52:49,480
Speaker 1: all just looking at the latest episode of podcast Magazine,

2889
02:52:49,520 --> 02:52:55,080
Speaker 1: which of course we all read regularly. That's the list

2890
02:52:55,600 --> 02:52:58,360
Speaker 1: I do like that to describe you as uh uh,

2891
02:52:59,680 --> 02:53:01,720
Speaker 1: they they describe you in a few funny ways. Actually,

2892
02:53:02,040 --> 02:53:04,359
Speaker 1: yes they do. It's a list of the most powerful

2893
02:53:04,440 --> 02:53:10,400
Speaker 1: people in podcasting, Um, of course gotten me obviously all

2894
02:53:10,480 --> 02:53:13,640
Speaker 1: the greats. On page forty seven we have Robert Evans,

2895
02:53:13,680 --> 02:53:16,199
Speaker 1: who and they do say that he has also undertaken

2896
02:53:16,240 --> 02:53:19,120
Speaker 1: an ambitious daily series called It Could Happen Here that

2897
02:53:19,240 --> 02:53:21,640
Speaker 1: takes us on some of the weightiest issues and problems

2898
02:53:21,720 --> 02:53:28,200
Speaker 1: facing policymakers. I will say this, if you are a

2899
02:53:28,280 --> 02:53:31,520
Speaker 1: policymaker and you have ever taken a policy suggestion for us,

2900
02:53:31,760 --> 02:53:34,800
Speaker 1: you have a legal obligation to like light your own

2901
02:53:34,840 --> 02:53:37,880
Speaker 1: office on fire with a molotov. I do like that

2902
02:53:38,120 --> 02:53:43,440
Speaker 1: Robert Evans don't listen to Chris do it policymakers. I

2903
02:53:43,520 --> 02:53:46,800
Speaker 1: do like that Robert Evans is right above the serial creators.

2904
02:53:47,000 --> 02:53:51,600
Speaker 1: So that's that is above Trevor Noah. I mean I don't,

2905
02:53:51,640 --> 02:53:54,720
Speaker 1: I literally don't think it's like it listed because there

2906
02:53:54,840 --> 02:53:57,360
Speaker 1: is no way in in the list. Bin Shapiro is

2907
02:53:57,400 --> 02:54:00,800
Speaker 1: above Joe Rogan, and that's just not accurate to the

2908
02:54:01,280 --> 02:54:03,960
Speaker 1: to the to the to the way the industry functions.

2909
02:54:04,040 --> 02:54:07,240
Speaker 1: But it's a very silly. Listen. It's been fun reading

2910
02:54:07,320 --> 02:54:10,400
Speaker 1: through our latest issue of our favorite of our favorite

2911
02:54:10,440 --> 02:54:14,879
Speaker 1: podcast magazine, podcast magazine made by podcast News Daily, where

2912
02:54:14,879 --> 02:54:17,400
Speaker 1: you can get all your news about podcasts. The thing

2913
02:54:17,520 --> 02:54:21,720
Speaker 1: that I totally knew about for I've known about this

2914
02:54:21,920 --> 02:54:24,720
Speaker 1: clearly for longer than fifteen minutes. Actually, that's that's not true.

2915
02:54:24,760 --> 02:54:30,879
Speaker 1: I've known about it for longer than eight minutes. Maybe twelve. Yeah,

2916
02:54:31,920 --> 02:54:35,920
Speaker 1: m hmm. It's an amazing photo. Was happy to get

2917
02:54:36,760 --> 02:54:38,480
Speaker 1: I was it was happy. Was happy to get in

2918
02:54:38,560 --> 02:54:42,040
Speaker 1: some fine reading today. Uh So, anyway, what's what's what's this?

2919
02:54:42,240 --> 02:54:46,360
Speaker 1: What's our episode actually about? It's a great question. It's

2920
02:54:46,360 --> 02:54:51,360
Speaker 1: a podcast power rating episode. Yeah, yeah, we're We're I

2921
02:54:51,400 --> 02:54:53,280
Speaker 1: don't even have anywhere to go with that. No, the thing,

2922
02:54:53,360 --> 02:54:56,240
Speaker 1: the thing the episode is actually about is heat waves,

2923
02:54:56,240 --> 02:54:59,760
Speaker 1: and very specifically a heat wave in China that has

2924
02:54:59,800 --> 02:55:03,119
Speaker 1: been going on for Why this is day seven as

2925
02:55:03,120 --> 02:55:06,760
Speaker 1: we're recording, this is day seventy two. I think by

2926
02:55:06,959 --> 02:55:08,960
Speaker 1: the time Let's Go Out goes out, it will probably

2927
02:55:09,080 --> 02:55:13,600
Speaker 1: be like day seventy four. Um. Yeah, And this is

2928
02:55:15,680 --> 02:55:19,400
Speaker 1: and and incomparable heat wave. I'm just gonna read this

2929
02:55:19,560 --> 02:55:23,040
Speaker 1: from Axios. The extreme heat and drought that has been

2930
02:55:23,120 --> 02:55:26,000
Speaker 1: most roasting a vast swath of southern China for at

2931
02:55:26,040 --> 02:55:29,039
Speaker 1: least seventy days straight has no parallel and modern record

2932
02:55:29,160 --> 02:55:32,200
Speaker 1: keeping in China or anywhere else around the world for

2933
02:55:32,320 --> 02:55:36,160
Speaker 1: that matter. Now, Okay, so that sounds bad, right, but

2934
02:55:36,240 --> 02:55:39,240
Speaker 1: it's actually worse than that because okay, so if if

2935
02:55:39,320 --> 02:55:41,960
Speaker 1: if you were to read that, you you might believe

2936
02:55:42,200 --> 02:55:44,760
Speaker 1: that this heat wave is just affecting southern China, and

2937
02:55:44,879 --> 02:55:48,240
Speaker 1: that's like not true. It's also affecting northern China. It

2938
02:55:48,320 --> 02:55:52,680
Speaker 1: is affecting like most of China. It's like affecting almost

2939
02:55:52,760 --> 02:55:59,000
Speaker 1: like most people alive is nine million people, which is

2940
02:55:59,200 --> 02:56:02,920
Speaker 1: like Chris quick question, is that a lot? So? Okay,

2941
02:56:02,959 --> 02:56:05,000
Speaker 1: so if if if you rank all the countries in

2942
02:56:05,040 --> 02:56:08,080
Speaker 1: the world, right, the people affected by this heat wave

2943
02:56:08,120 --> 02:56:10,120
Speaker 1: would be the third largest country in the world, only

2944
02:56:10,320 --> 02:56:15,000
Speaker 1: behind China and India. Okay, so that's that's several people.

2945
02:56:15,480 --> 02:56:18,360
Speaker 1: It's it's fun, is it more people than the British

2946
02:56:18,400 --> 02:56:20,560
Speaker 1: people who have been logging onto post about it being

2947
02:56:20,680 --> 02:56:25,520
Speaker 1: like five degrees and them like, I do love. One

2948
02:56:25,560 --> 02:56:27,760
Speaker 1: of the things that's keeping me alive during this ugly

2949
02:56:27,879 --> 02:56:30,600
Speaker 1: summer is like all of the photos of British people

2950
02:56:30,760 --> 02:56:33,000
Speaker 1: just getting as red as possible because they think the

2951
02:56:33,120 --> 02:56:39,520
Speaker 1: tanning means burning of your body. It's hard for me

2952
02:56:39,640 --> 02:56:42,120
Speaker 1: to explain how difficult it was for me to comprehend

2953
02:56:42,200 --> 02:56:44,800
Speaker 1: that in California they won't serve you if you have

2954
02:56:44,959 --> 02:56:47,640
Speaker 1: your shirt off, because it is a national tradition in

2955
02:56:47,760 --> 02:56:49,959
Speaker 1: Britain to take off your shirt and get as much

2956
02:56:50,040 --> 02:56:52,960
Speaker 1: some note as possible, or if you're getting into a

2957
02:56:53,040 --> 02:56:57,560
Speaker 1: fist fight as well. Well, the number of folks pull

2958
02:56:57,640 --> 02:57:02,400
Speaker 1: their shirts off and fights in London. Yeah, it's it's

2959
02:57:02,480 --> 02:57:06,160
Speaker 1: part of a natural heritage. It's it's a beautiful country.

2960
02:57:06,200 --> 02:57:09,480
Speaker 1: But please continue, Chris, Yeah, okay, So so you know,

2961
02:57:09,760 --> 02:57:12,160
Speaker 1: to get a sense of like the stakes of this, right,

2962
02:57:13,000 --> 02:57:15,879
Speaker 1: so okay, and like they just just the sheer scale

2963
02:57:15,920 --> 02:57:18,520
Speaker 1: of this because people is an amount of people that, like,

2964
02:57:18,640 --> 02:57:22,400
Speaker 1: we like is incomprehensible. Think that's a number that's too large.

2965
02:57:23,360 --> 02:57:26,480
Speaker 1: So okay. Sichuan Province, right, this is this is one

2966
02:57:26,600 --> 02:57:29,400
Speaker 1: province that is being affected by this. This province has

2967
02:57:29,440 --> 02:57:32,039
Speaker 1: eighty three million people in it. This is the entire

2968
02:57:32,240 --> 02:57:37,480
Speaker 1: combined population of California, Texas, Indiana, and New York City. Um,

2969
02:57:37,800 --> 02:57:40,879
Speaker 1: here's here's in France twenty four about what's happening here.

2970
02:57:41,640 --> 02:57:44,280
Speaker 1: Since July this year, the province has faced the most

2971
02:57:44,360 --> 02:57:48,400
Speaker 1: extreme high temperatures the lowest rainfall in the corresponding period

2972
02:57:48,480 --> 02:57:51,480
Speaker 1: in history and the highest power load in history. Local

2973
02:57:51,520 --> 02:57:55,360
Speaker 1: authorities said, so it is hotter than it has ever been.

2974
02:57:55,920 --> 02:57:59,320
Speaker 1: It is drier than it has ever been except and

2975
02:57:59,480 --> 02:58:01,680
Speaker 1: and this is the fun part. This is the similar

2976
02:58:01,760 --> 02:58:04,720
Speaker 1: similar was happening in Texas, and I think, yeah, well,

2977
02:58:04,760 --> 02:58:06,880
Speaker 1: I'm texts probably the best example of this. Okay, So

2978
02:58:07,000 --> 02:58:09,400
Speaker 1: it's really really really unbelievably dry, except for when there's

2979
02:58:09,400 --> 02:58:11,680
Speaker 1: giant flash floods and they've killed like twenty two people

2980
02:58:11,720 --> 02:58:15,000
Speaker 1: already have have died from the flash floods um the

2981
02:58:15,080 --> 02:58:20,280
Speaker 1: different province. But yeah, it is unbelievably bleak. Um. One

2982
02:58:20,320 --> 02:58:22,240
Speaker 1: of the big things that's happening is that the Yanksy

2983
02:58:22,360 --> 02:58:26,720
Speaker 1: River is like the lowest anyone has ever seen it.

2984
02:58:26,800 --> 02:58:29,160
Speaker 1: Who's like, anyone alive has ever seen it. It's the

2985
02:58:29,200 --> 02:58:32,480
Speaker 1: lowest we have recorded measurements of because like I, this

2986
02:58:32,600 --> 02:58:36,000
Speaker 1: is everything is happening here, like there is no record

2987
02:58:36,120 --> 02:58:40,040
Speaker 1: of it ever being this bad. And this is a

2988
02:58:40,120 --> 02:58:46,680
Speaker 1: real problem because particularly in such one because of this

2989
02:58:46,800 --> 02:58:50,840
Speaker 1: province's power is drawn from hydro electric and you know,

2990
02:58:50,959 --> 02:58:54,560
Speaker 1: it turns out it's it's really bad if the rivers

2991
02:58:54,600 --> 02:58:56,640
Speaker 1: that you are relying on for your hydro electric power

2992
02:58:56,680 --> 02:58:59,200
Speaker 1: are basically drying up, and like like there's there's pictures

2993
02:58:59,360 --> 02:59:01,600
Speaker 1: of like like you can go find pictures of this

2994
02:59:01,640 --> 02:59:03,840
Speaker 1: that there are pictures of the yankste that like it

2995
02:59:03,920 --> 02:59:07,040
Speaker 1: looks like a riverbed on Mars, like is just just

2996
02:59:07,400 --> 02:59:15,480
Speaker 1: completely dry, Like it's like dry cragged stuff. It's really Again,

2997
02:59:15,600 --> 02:59:20,360
Speaker 1: this is just to kind of bring out how worldwide

2998
02:59:20,400 --> 02:59:23,960
Speaker 1: this problem is. We're seeing pieces of this everywhere else,

2999
02:59:24,080 --> 02:59:26,240
Speaker 1: right Like Texas, which is also in a horrible drought,

3000
02:59:26,280 --> 02:59:29,040
Speaker 1: has been having flash floods that have been disastrous recently

3001
02:59:29,080 --> 02:59:30,760
Speaker 1: because when it's been super dry for a while and

3002
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:33,720
Speaker 1: you have these these heavy rains, it's it's a huge

3003
02:59:33,800 --> 02:59:36,720
Speaker 1: fucking problem. And you've got riverbeds drying up all across

3004
02:59:36,760 --> 02:59:39,480
Speaker 1: the Southwest and things like Lake Mead getting low enough

3005
02:59:39,520 --> 02:59:42,200
Speaker 1: that hydro electric power isn't going to be reliable. A

3006
02:59:42,280 --> 02:59:45,240
Speaker 1: huge chunk about like the the again, because it's important

3007
02:59:45,320 --> 02:59:47,880
Speaker 1: not to distract from like what's happening in China, but

3008
02:59:47,920 --> 02:59:50,080
Speaker 1: because it's important, like this is this is everybody, This

3009
02:59:50,200 --> 02:59:55,560
Speaker 1: is everybody, yes in India all over yeah yeah, and

3010
02:59:55,800 --> 02:59:59,800
Speaker 1: and you know, okay, so the seat wave and trying to, like,

3011
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:02,480
Speaker 1: there's been very very little English coverage of it, and

3012
03:00:02,640 --> 03:00:04,520
Speaker 1: the thing that everyone focuses on is the fact that

3013
03:00:04,640 --> 03:00:07,760
Speaker 1: like the power audergy, well, the the reduced ability to

3014
03:00:07,800 --> 03:00:09,520
Speaker 1: generate power and the fact that everyone has to turn

3015
03:00:09,600 --> 03:00:12,320
Speaker 1: on the air conditions and not like literally die is

3016
03:00:12,879 --> 03:00:14,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's wreaking havoc on China set of productive

3017
03:00:14,800 --> 03:00:19,000
Speaker 1: capacity since such one has like there there there's an

3018
03:00:19,120 --> 03:00:22,640
Speaker 1: enormous like industrial base there that you know, produces stuff

3019
03:00:22,640 --> 03:00:25,000
Speaker 1: from everything from like Tesla to Apple. And this is

3020
03:00:25,040 --> 03:00:27,080
Speaker 1: what the sort of the anglephone media cares about, right,

3021
03:00:27,160 --> 03:00:29,280
Speaker 1: like everything that almost everything written about the heat wave

3022
03:00:29,879 --> 03:00:32,400
Speaker 1: is about its effect on like supply chain disruption, disruption

3023
03:00:32,440 --> 03:00:34,600
Speaker 1: to like semi conduct your production and like batteries for

3024
03:00:34,680 --> 03:00:36,680
Speaker 1: electronic exs on and so forth. And I do not

3025
03:00:36,840 --> 03:00:39,440
Speaker 1: give a shit about this, um And the reason I

3026
03:00:39,480 --> 03:00:41,720
Speaker 1: don't give a shit about this is because the actual

3027
03:00:41,840 --> 03:00:46,320
Speaker 1: human impact of this is just sort of unfathomable, and

3028
03:00:46,920 --> 03:00:50,879
Speaker 1: the media outlets we're talking about it like don't seem

3029
03:00:50,920 --> 03:00:53,720
Speaker 1: to be paying attention to it at all. Um So,

3030
03:00:53,879 --> 03:00:57,160
Speaker 1: while I was originally okay, so uh when I when

3031
03:00:57,160 --> 03:01:00,320
Speaker 1: I was originally writing part of this episode owed I

3032
03:01:00,440 --> 03:01:03,320
Speaker 1: went and like looked back at weather data for Shanghai

3033
03:01:04,440 --> 03:01:06,600
Speaker 1: and so okay, when I was running this on August,

3034
03:01:07,600 --> 03:01:10,880
Speaker 1: that day was a hundred and three in Shanghai, like

3035
03:01:11,040 --> 03:01:13,160
Speaker 1: two weeks before that it was a hundred and eleven.

3036
03:01:14,080 --> 03:01:18,480
Speaker 1: And I found out that from July to August, the

3037
03:01:18,879 --> 03:01:22,160
Speaker 1: like the high temperature, like the daily high temperature like

3038
03:01:22,280 --> 03:01:25,600
Speaker 1: did not go below a hundred. On the one it

3039
03:01:25,720 --> 03:01:30,080
Speaker 1: finally rained and that dropped the temperature to merely four.

3040
03:01:30,640 --> 03:01:35,960
Speaker 1: I think either tomorrow today or tomorrow, I think it

3041
03:01:36,040 --> 03:01:40,560
Speaker 1: will go below ninety. This is all now, this is

3042
03:01:40,600 --> 03:01:42,200
Speaker 1: this is this is this is the temperature of the day.

3043
03:01:42,200 --> 03:01:44,600
Speaker 1: But after during the night aren't going below like seventy either,

3044
03:01:44,640 --> 03:01:45,640
Speaker 1: then a lot a lot of times are in the

3045
03:01:45,680 --> 03:01:50,720
Speaker 1: eighties or nineties, And and that the temperature at night

3046
03:01:50,879 --> 03:01:53,560
Speaker 1: does just for people who are not aware of like heat.

3047
03:01:54,000 --> 03:01:56,120
Speaker 1: One of the things that's most important for like the

3048
03:01:56,200 --> 03:01:58,400
Speaker 1: survivability of a heat wave is whether or not it

3049
03:01:58,480 --> 03:02:01,760
Speaker 1: gets cool at night, because can survive pretty hot temperatures

3050
03:02:01,840 --> 03:02:03,840
Speaker 1: during the day. If you were able to cool your

3051
03:02:03,840 --> 03:02:06,039
Speaker 1: body down at night, it's one of the like one

3052
03:02:06,080 --> 03:02:08,400
Speaker 1: of the saving grace is the Pacific Northwest had during

3053
03:02:08,440 --> 03:02:10,360
Speaker 1: its seat waves. But yeah, and and this is this

3054
03:02:10,480 --> 03:02:13,400
Speaker 1: is a really like so Chunking, which is an enormous city.

3055
03:02:13,959 --> 03:02:17,000
Speaker 1: It has nine million people like regularly in the city.

3056
03:02:17,040 --> 03:02:20,680
Speaker 1: It's Chunking. The city is also the municipal like government there,

3057
03:02:20,720 --> 03:02:22,000
Speaker 1: so there's a whole sort of complicate thing there. But

3058
03:02:22,080 --> 03:02:24,879
Speaker 1: like the municipality of Chunking is thirty two million people

3059
03:02:24,920 --> 03:02:28,480
Speaker 1: in it. Uh. They had a night I a couple

3060
03:02:28,520 --> 03:02:30,840
Speaker 1: I think a couple of weeks ago that was ninety

3061
03:02:30,959 --> 03:02:35,640
Speaker 1: four point eight degrees and which is again like that

3062
03:02:35,840 --> 03:02:38,080
Speaker 1: is a night that is significantly hotter than the average

3063
03:02:38,080 --> 03:02:41,600
Speaker 1: summer day. And you know, I mean, like I want

3064
03:02:41,600 --> 03:02:43,080
Speaker 1: to go back to Shanghai for just like a second,

3065
03:02:43,200 --> 03:02:47,520
Speaker 1: because like Shanghai, I looked this, I I looked this up.

3066
03:02:47,560 --> 03:02:50,600
Speaker 1: Shanghai has not had a day where the high has

3067
03:02:50,680 --> 03:02:53,320
Speaker 1: been below eighty nine degrees for two consecutive days since

3068
03:02:53,480 --> 03:02:58,200
Speaker 1: mid June. It has been over ninety degrees every single

3069
03:02:58,360 --> 03:03:01,200
Speaker 1: day like with without two days back to back. It

3070
03:03:01,360 --> 03:03:05,600
Speaker 1: wasn't that hot since mid June um And you know, okay,

3071
03:03:05,680 --> 03:03:08,400
Speaker 1: so like the this is having enormous effects. One of

3072
03:03:08,480 --> 03:03:12,560
Speaker 1: the big ones, the most noticeable ones is like basically

3073
03:03:12,640 --> 03:03:14,680
Speaker 1: like any excess power usage that a city can have

3074
03:03:14,800 --> 03:03:17,440
Speaker 1: is just getting shut off. There's been a lot of uh,

3075
03:03:17,560 --> 03:03:19,199
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of stuff where like businesses aren't

3076
03:03:19,200 --> 03:03:22,560
Speaker 1: allowed to open before like four pm because it's literally

3077
03:03:22,640 --> 03:03:25,959
Speaker 1: just too hot and you can't deal with electricity load

3078
03:03:26,879 --> 03:03:29,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, like and you know the other the other

3079
03:03:29,240 --> 03:03:31,160
Speaker 1: problem here again it's like it's not cooling off at night.

3080
03:03:31,200 --> 03:03:34,280
Speaker 1: And if it's not cooling off at night, yeah, like

3081
03:03:34,360 --> 03:03:36,200
Speaker 1: that this is this is the thing that kills people. Um,

3082
03:03:37,959 --> 03:03:40,080
Speaker 1: and so well, the one of the things I want

3083
03:03:40,080 --> 03:03:41,960
Speaker 1: to talk about this is just like looking at this,

3084
03:03:42,240 --> 03:03:43,720
Speaker 1: looking at what this looks like on like a very

3085
03:03:43,840 --> 03:03:48,520
Speaker 1: very granular individual level, because this stuff also just sort

3086
03:03:48,560 --> 03:03:51,440
Speaker 1: of gets ignored. Um. There is a really horrible story

3087
03:03:51,480 --> 03:03:55,160
Speaker 1: in six Tone, which is like it's hard to describe them.

3088
03:03:55,200 --> 03:03:58,920
Speaker 1: So six Tone is a state media outlet, but they're

3089
03:03:59,040 --> 03:04:01,240
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I guess you consider them like

3090
03:04:01,480 --> 03:04:04,840
Speaker 1: they're they're like the left wing state media outlet, which

3091
03:04:04,920 --> 03:04:07,920
Speaker 1: means that like they have somewhat more like editorial independence

3092
03:04:08,040 --> 03:04:09,840
Speaker 1: than like something like China Daily or like a lot

3093
03:04:09,840 --> 03:04:13,160
Speaker 1: of the other state run things, and they like they

3094
03:04:13,240 --> 03:04:16,920
Speaker 1: criticize the government a lot more than uh, most of

3095
03:04:16,959 --> 03:04:19,560
Speaker 1: the sort of state run outlets. And they did this

3096
03:04:19,720 --> 03:04:23,120
Speaker 1: story about a migrant worker who was working at a

3097
03:04:23,160 --> 03:04:26,600
Speaker 1: freight depot about like he's this is this depos about

3098
03:04:26,600 --> 03:04:29,880
Speaker 1: like two and a half hours outside of Shanghai, and okay,

3099
03:04:29,920 --> 03:04:35,320
Speaker 1: so he's he's working and it is you know, it is.

3100
03:04:35,360 --> 03:04:38,520
Speaker 1: It is unbelievably hot. I think. I think the last

3101
03:04:38,640 --> 03:04:40,640
Speaker 1: day that he's working here, it's a hundred and four

3102
03:04:40,680 --> 03:04:43,640
Speaker 1: degrees and that night it only cooled off to four.

3103
03:04:44,320 --> 03:04:46,600
Speaker 1: Here's from six toned about sort of just the conditions

3104
03:04:46,640 --> 03:04:49,560
Speaker 1: that people are working in here. On the hottest days,

3105
03:04:49,600 --> 03:04:52,320
Speaker 1: the temper side the carriages is at least fifty degrees celsius,

3106
03:04:52,360 --> 03:04:55,520
Speaker 1: which is a hundred and twenty two degrees fahrenheit, says you.

3107
03:04:55,760 --> 03:04:57,959
Speaker 1: He had Dong, a worker from Junk c and other

3108
03:04:58,000 --> 03:05:01,000
Speaker 1: Inland Province. It feels like you're on fire standing here.

3109
03:05:01,040 --> 03:05:05,520
Speaker 1: Around noon, his employer, an outsourcing agency, hands out heat

3110
03:05:05,560 --> 03:05:08,600
Speaker 1: stroke profession drugs, which he takes twice a day. At

3111
03:05:08,640 --> 03:05:11,440
Speaker 1: the freight depot. Managers sit in air conditioned rooms, but

3112
03:05:11,560 --> 03:05:14,560
Speaker 1: workers like him rest under trees. The office is not

3113
03:05:14,720 --> 03:05:18,800
Speaker 1: for us, you says, now, okay. In theory, under Chinese

3114
03:05:18,879 --> 03:05:21,680
Speaker 1: law if it hits a hundred and four degrees, outdoor

3115
03:05:21,720 --> 03:05:23,760
Speaker 1: work is supposed to immediately stop, and you're supposed to

3116
03:05:23,800 --> 03:05:26,120
Speaker 1: move everyone indoors and like give them water and stuff.

3117
03:05:26,200 --> 03:05:29,039
Speaker 1: Because it turns out if you're working like a hard

3118
03:05:29,080 --> 03:05:30,840
Speaker 1: man or labor job outside and a hundred and four

3119
03:05:31,360 --> 03:05:34,720
Speaker 1: you might die. But you know, you and you're a

3120
03:05:34,800 --> 03:05:37,920
Speaker 1: you're supposed to get paid heat breaks, and like, you know,

3121
03:05:38,440 --> 03:05:40,840
Speaker 1: as as anyone who is familiar with, for example, how

3122
03:05:40,879 --> 03:05:43,480
Speaker 1: American farm labor works, you know what happens about to

3123
03:05:43,480 --> 03:05:45,920
Speaker 1: happen next. Uh, it turns out that you know, okay,

3124
03:05:45,959 --> 03:05:47,720
Speaker 1: so you can take a break, but your employers won't

3125
03:05:47,720 --> 03:05:50,400
Speaker 1: pay you for it because like they don't know who's who,

3126
03:05:50,400 --> 03:05:53,240
Speaker 1: who's gonna who's gonna actually force them to do it. John,

3127
03:05:53,360 --> 03:05:56,840
Speaker 1: who's the work of the story is about, you know,

3128
03:05:57,240 --> 03:06:00,160
Speaker 1: is extremely poor. His family is poor. He's on his

3129
03:06:00,200 --> 03:06:04,360
Speaker 1: support a family like back home because again he's he's

3130
03:06:04,360 --> 03:06:08,120
Speaker 1: a migrant worker and he you know, he can't he

3131
03:06:08,200 --> 03:06:09,960
Speaker 1: can't afford to take a break on his ship. So

3132
03:06:10,000 --> 03:06:13,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't die, and so he he literally collapses on

3133
03:06:13,560 --> 03:06:17,320
Speaker 1: the job and then gets back up and finishes his work,

3134
03:06:17,879 --> 03:06:20,200
Speaker 1: and he tries to cool down by like laying in

3135
03:06:20,360 --> 03:06:23,200
Speaker 1: his tiny, young, un air conditioned apartments with like an

3136
03:06:23,240 --> 03:06:26,920
Speaker 1: electric fan pointed at his head. And he died on

3137
03:06:27,000 --> 03:06:29,600
Speaker 1: a bed that was held up by two broken cinder blocks,

3138
03:06:29,720 --> 03:06:37,760
Speaker 1: making maybe four dollars an hour. M Yeah, and you know, yeah,

3139
03:06:37,879 --> 03:06:39,720
Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, the thing about this, right

3140
03:06:39,760 --> 03:06:42,600
Speaker 1: is so in theory, he's working for for a state

3141
03:06:42,640 --> 03:06:45,240
Speaker 1: owned company, right, but you know, as as as we

3142
03:06:45,320 --> 03:06:47,039
Speaker 1: talked about like a little bit in that the sort

3143
03:06:47,040 --> 03:06:50,440
Speaker 1: of quote earlier, he's not actually working for the state

3144
03:06:50,480 --> 03:06:52,320
Speaker 1: owned firm. What he's working for is one of these

3145
03:06:52,440 --> 03:06:54,720
Speaker 1: like labor agencies, which are these like sort of contracting

3146
03:06:54,800 --> 03:06:58,520
Speaker 1: things that allow you to actually get a job. But

3147
03:06:58,840 --> 03:07:01,000
Speaker 1: you know what what happens is the state of firms

3148
03:07:01,120 --> 03:07:03,920
Speaker 1: like outsourced of labor to the the two these contracting firms,

3149
03:07:04,879 --> 03:07:07,120
Speaker 1: and the contracting firms just like pick people up and

3150
03:07:07,160 --> 03:07:08,480
Speaker 1: bring them to the site. But this means he doesn't

3151
03:07:08,480 --> 03:07:11,400
Speaker 1: have a contract. And the problem is if you don't

3152
03:07:11,400 --> 03:07:13,680
Speaker 1: have if you don't have a contract, right, you can't

3153
03:07:13,720 --> 03:07:17,080
Speaker 1: get any government benefits, you can't get insurance. And it

3154
03:07:17,120 --> 03:07:20,119
Speaker 1: turns out this matters because you know, China, China has

3155
03:07:20,280 --> 03:07:22,480
Speaker 1: like a payout right that they're supposed to pay to

3156
03:07:22,600 --> 03:07:26,200
Speaker 1: families when you know, if someone dies in the job,

3157
03:07:26,320 --> 03:07:28,440
Speaker 1: but you know, it's almost impossible to collect, especially if

3158
03:07:28,480 --> 03:07:31,000
Speaker 1: you don't have a contract. It is it is almost

3159
03:07:31,040 --> 03:07:35,640
Speaker 1: impossible to to get this thing, um, And you know,

3160
03:07:35,720 --> 03:07:37,960
Speaker 1: like this is this is how like most of the

3161
03:07:38,040 --> 03:07:41,520
Speaker 1: Chinese economy works. The Chinese General Trong calculated that in

3162
03:07:42,720 --> 03:07:45,160
Speaker 1: Funk One, which is one of like China's big industrial cities,

3163
03:07:45,440 --> 03:07:48,080
Speaker 1: if companies actually paid out the insurance benefits they were

3164
03:07:48,160 --> 03:07:51,440
Speaker 1: legally required to pay out, it would cut corporate profit

3165
03:07:51,480 --> 03:07:56,240
Speaker 1: by and bankrupt like most of the company's working. Here's

3166
03:07:56,440 --> 03:07:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, the entire economy is based on this. And

3167
03:08:00,760 --> 03:08:04,720
Speaker 1: John's family drives like three d and fifty miles to

3168
03:08:04,879 --> 03:08:07,080
Speaker 1: the city where he died and starts like harassing government

3169
03:08:07,120 --> 03:08:10,680
Speaker 1: officials and bosses for like literally weeks. They are trying

3170
03:08:10,720 --> 03:08:12,480
Speaker 1: to get people to like, hey, you know, will you

3171
03:08:12,560 --> 03:08:15,000
Speaker 1: pay out the insurance money you're legally required to pay us?

3172
03:08:15,760 --> 03:08:21,080
Speaker 1: And they refuse, like the local officials like won't even

3173
03:08:21,120 --> 03:08:24,040
Speaker 1: give them like surveillance footage of like what like of

3174
03:08:24,280 --> 03:08:27,920
Speaker 1: him on the job dying. And you know, after like

3175
03:08:28,879 --> 03:08:31,240
Speaker 1: several weeks of his like four or five weeks, their

3176
03:08:31,280 --> 03:08:33,280
Speaker 1: finally able to get a sixth of the money they're

3177
03:08:33,280 --> 03:08:35,200
Speaker 1: supposed to get if you die, if someone dies under

3178
03:08:35,520 --> 03:08:37,960
Speaker 1: sort of like they're able to get a six of

3179
03:08:38,000 --> 03:08:39,600
Speaker 1: the money that you're supposed to get into Chinese law

3180
03:08:39,640 --> 03:08:42,800
Speaker 1: if one of your family embraers dies into workplace. And

3181
03:08:43,200 --> 03:08:45,640
Speaker 1: you know, I'm focusing on this story because it's one

3182
03:08:45,680 --> 03:08:48,600
Speaker 1: of the few stories that we have directly about sort

3183
03:08:48,640 --> 03:08:50,760
Speaker 1: of the sheer magnitude of the suffering the heat wave

3184
03:08:51,360 --> 03:08:54,960
Speaker 1: is causing. And part of part of what's going on

3185
03:08:55,120 --> 03:08:56,640
Speaker 1: here is that we don't know what the death told

3186
03:08:56,640 --> 03:08:58,920
Speaker 1: the heat wave is. There's there's nothing about it, right

3187
03:08:59,000 --> 03:09:01,720
Speaker 1: you You'll see a couple reports I'll talk about like

3188
03:09:01,800 --> 03:09:03,800
Speaker 1: two or three heat related death but it's it is

3189
03:09:03,879 --> 03:09:08,440
Speaker 1: literally impossible that there are that few deaths um there.

3190
03:09:08,480 --> 03:09:10,480
Speaker 1: There there was a study in the journal Lancet that

3191
03:09:10,560 --> 03:09:13,080
Speaker 1: was looking at heat related deaths in China over the

3192
03:09:13,200 --> 03:09:16,880
Speaker 1: last thirty years, and it showed that like heat related

3193
03:09:16,920 --> 03:09:19,240
Speaker 1: deaths have died increased by a factor of four since

3194
03:09:20,560 --> 03:09:22,560
Speaker 1: and you know, so there was there was another heatwave

3195
03:09:22,600 --> 03:09:24,560
Speaker 1: in China that was like pretty bad in twenty nineteen,

3196
03:09:24,800 --> 03:09:30,280
Speaker 1: and they calculated that eight hundred people had died from

3197
03:09:30,280 --> 03:09:33,840
Speaker 1: heat related deaths Jesus, and you know and again that

3198
03:09:33,959 --> 03:09:36,720
Speaker 1: that that heat wave heat wave was pretty bad. This

3199
03:09:36,840 --> 03:09:41,280
Speaker 1: heat wave, like it has just utterly destroyed every single

3200
03:09:41,400 --> 03:09:44,080
Speaker 1: record that heat waves set, Like it is in like

3201
03:09:44,280 --> 03:09:47,520
Speaker 1: its own universe of heat waves. So it has killed

3202
03:09:48,040 --> 03:09:49,720
Speaker 1: like probably by the end of this it will have

3203
03:09:49,879 --> 03:09:56,200
Speaker 1: killed like tens of thousands of people. Yep. And yeah,

3204
03:09:56,440 --> 03:10:00,120
Speaker 1: which is really bleak. And you know what I'm I

3205
03:10:00,200 --> 03:10:01,400
Speaker 1: think like part of the reason also I wanted to

3206
03:10:01,400 --> 03:10:04,840
Speaker 1: talk about, like the specific story is that like you know,

3207
03:10:05,040 --> 03:10:08,520
Speaker 1: so the weather itself like is trying to like is

3208
03:10:09,000 --> 03:10:14,200
Speaker 1: enough to kill you, right, But like okay, so like this,

3209
03:10:14,400 --> 03:10:18,200
Speaker 1: like this kind of heat is survivable if like you know,

3210
03:10:18,280 --> 03:10:20,200
Speaker 1: if if if you're in a situation where you can

3211
03:10:20,240 --> 03:10:22,240
Speaker 1: be inside and where you can be hydrated and stuff

3212
03:10:22,240 --> 03:10:25,039
Speaker 1: like that. But you know, hey, capitalism exists. I means

3213
03:10:25,040 --> 03:10:26,760
Speaker 1: you have to keep working during this ship and that's

3214
03:10:27,160 --> 03:10:31,400
Speaker 1: just going to keep killing people. UM. I wanted to

3215
03:10:31,440 --> 03:10:32,800
Speaker 1: sort of also look at sort of some of the

3216
03:10:32,879 --> 03:10:34,920
Speaker 1: historical heat waves to also to get a sense of

3217
03:10:34,959 --> 03:10:38,480
Speaker 1: how many people like probably died in this one. Um.

3218
03:10:38,600 --> 03:10:41,120
Speaker 1: I think like maybe the most famous heat wave like

3219
03:10:41,320 --> 03:10:43,320
Speaker 1: in in my lifetime, well until this one, I guess

3220
03:10:43,560 --> 03:10:47,000
Speaker 1: was that heat wave in Europe thousand three and that

3221
03:10:47,160 --> 03:10:51,720
Speaker 1: one killed something like seventy people. Um, and there's a

3222
03:10:51,760 --> 03:10:53,400
Speaker 1: lot of very interesting stuff that we learned from this

3223
03:10:53,440 --> 03:10:55,920
Speaker 1: heat wave about what heat waves to you. It's sort

3224
03:10:55,959 --> 03:10:58,840
Speaker 1: of in general. The United Nations, like in fine mental program,

3225
03:10:58,920 --> 03:11:01,800
Speaker 1: like released a report about this, and there's ulti really

3226
03:11:01,800 --> 03:11:03,959
Speaker 1: interesting stuff and I mean, okay, so the obvious one

3227
03:11:04,040 --> 03:11:08,320
Speaker 1: is that this has a massive effect on agriculture, which okay, yeah,

3228
03:11:08,520 --> 03:11:10,240
Speaker 1: Like you can ask a four year old and they

3229
03:11:10,280 --> 03:11:13,879
Speaker 1: will tell you that this is bad and this is happening.

3230
03:11:13,920 --> 03:11:17,360
Speaker 1: This is affecting China right now too, because um, this

3231
03:11:17,600 --> 03:11:20,280
Speaker 1: drought is hitting like right in the middle of a

3232
03:11:20,320 --> 03:11:24,200
Speaker 1: lot of kind of bread basket. So yeah, there's all

3233
03:11:24,240 --> 03:11:28,040
Speaker 1: these sort of like downstream effects that we'll see later. Um.

3234
03:11:29,400 --> 03:11:31,680
Speaker 1: One of the other fun parts about this this is

3235
03:11:31,800 --> 03:11:33,800
Speaker 1: when she doesn't three heat wave. I'm just gonna read

3236
03:11:33,840 --> 03:11:38,280
Speaker 1: this quote. Massive alpine glaciers decreased by ten in two

3237
03:11:38,360 --> 03:11:42,080
Speaker 1: thousand three. And yeah, okay, so you know what you're

3238
03:11:42,080 --> 03:11:44,360
Speaker 1: seeing here, right is this sort of sickler thing where

3239
03:11:44,959 --> 03:11:47,640
Speaker 1: each each heat wave, you know, does things like melt glaciers, right,

3240
03:11:47,640 --> 03:11:49,640
Speaker 1: and that makes the next heat wave worse because when

3241
03:11:49,680 --> 03:11:52,240
Speaker 1: when you when you lose glacier mass, you're you're you're

3242
03:11:52,280 --> 03:11:55,360
Speaker 1: you're losing surface area that reflects light, which increases level

3243
03:11:55,360 --> 03:11:56,640
Speaker 1: of warming. And this is sort of you know, this

3244
03:11:56,720 --> 03:11:59,880
Speaker 1: is one of those sort of feedback loops that where

3245
03:12:00,040 --> 03:12:04,680
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Um uh, you know another thing that

3246
03:12:05,040 --> 03:12:08,120
Speaker 1: we've been seeing a lot in the US had this

3247
03:12:08,320 --> 03:12:10,800
Speaker 1: like pretty badly. I mean, I guess like anyone who

3248
03:12:10,840 --> 03:12:14,480
Speaker 1: lives in the Pacific Northwest like understands this. There's just

3249
03:12:14,680 --> 03:12:17,360
Speaker 1: there are just fires constantly because it turns out that

3250
03:12:17,400 --> 03:12:19,840
Speaker 1: when it's really hot, things just lead on fire. Um.

3251
03:12:19,920 --> 03:12:22,160
Speaker 1: In the in the two three one there were twenty

3252
03:12:22,280 --> 03:12:26,879
Speaker 1: five thousand fires and they burned something like six fifty

3253
03:12:26,959 --> 03:12:30,840
Speaker 1: thousand head acres of forest. And even the places it

3254
03:12:30,920 --> 03:12:36,199
Speaker 1: didn't burn, it causes sort of like severe, severe ecological

3255
03:12:36,320 --> 03:12:41,119
Speaker 1: damage to these forests because like the they the heat

3256
03:12:41,280 --> 03:12:45,320
Speaker 1: leaves trees, for example, like a lot weaker than're supposed

3257
03:12:45,320 --> 03:12:47,160
Speaker 1: to mean, this leaves in vulnerable to things like plagues

3258
03:12:47,200 --> 03:12:49,480
Speaker 1: and like into the waves of insects and this, you know,

3259
03:12:49,640 --> 03:12:52,400
Speaker 1: like everything that's happening here with these heat waves, like

3260
03:12:52,760 --> 03:12:55,520
Speaker 1: we weakens the environments that are supposed to be sort

3261
03:12:55,560 --> 03:12:59,600
Speaker 1: of like mitigating the effects of climate change. Um we

3262
03:12:59,760 --> 03:13:01,480
Speaker 1: were so we also like on the sort of like

3263
03:13:01,560 --> 03:13:04,120
Speaker 1: human front, we we talked about how heat waves can

3264
03:13:04,200 --> 03:13:07,840
Speaker 1: knock out uh he waves can knock out hydro electric power.

3265
03:13:07,879 --> 03:13:10,080
Speaker 1: It turns out they can also knock out nuclear power

3266
03:13:10,160 --> 03:13:14,160
Speaker 1: plants because nuclear power plants rely on like dumping their

3267
03:13:14,200 --> 03:13:17,880
Speaker 1: cooling water back into rivers. Now there's like there's there's

3268
03:13:17,959 --> 03:13:20,280
Speaker 1: legal limits on how hot like the water you can

3269
03:13:20,360 --> 03:13:23,120
Speaker 1: dump into these rivers is supposed to be. Because it

3270
03:13:23,160 --> 03:13:24,440
Speaker 1: turns out, you know if okay, if you have a

3271
03:13:24,480 --> 03:13:26,400
Speaker 1: bunch of boiling water into river is gonna kill everything

3272
03:13:26,440 --> 03:13:29,800
Speaker 1: in it. But as the sort of cooling process like

3273
03:13:30,760 --> 03:13:33,520
Speaker 1: gets more difficult because the water levels are lower, you

3274
03:13:33,640 --> 03:13:35,840
Speaker 1: have to take power plants offline because otherwise you're going

3275
03:13:35,920 --> 03:13:38,840
Speaker 1: to just kill everything in the river when you when

3276
03:13:38,840 --> 03:13:41,680
Speaker 1: you're venting your sort of exhaust heat and into it

3277
03:13:41,920 --> 03:13:44,080
Speaker 1: got into three it gets bad enough that like a

3278
03:13:44,160 --> 03:13:47,040
Speaker 1: bunch of companies get exemptions right there, like Okay, it's

3279
03:13:47,040 --> 03:13:48,640
Speaker 1: an emergency, we can turn this on. We can like

3280
03:13:48,760 --> 03:13:50,640
Speaker 1: we can vent all this hot water back in the rivers.

3281
03:13:50,760 --> 03:13:52,959
Speaker 1: But you know, you can only do this so many

3282
03:13:53,040 --> 03:13:55,800
Speaker 1: times before your revocably funk up the ecosystem of the river.

3283
03:13:56,360 --> 03:13:58,520
Speaker 1: And again this is this is this is the problem, right,

3284
03:13:58,959 --> 03:14:01,480
Speaker 1: Like you get you're getting into these feedback loops. You're

3285
03:14:01,480 --> 03:14:04,879
Speaker 1: destroying it, You're destroying the ecosystem, You're showing the river ecosystems.

3286
03:14:05,000 --> 03:14:08,600
Speaker 1: This also again has problems with like it produces. It's

3287
03:14:09,320 --> 03:14:11,600
Speaker 1: it's the river's ability to serve as a carbon sink.

3288
03:14:12,440 --> 03:14:14,640
Speaker 1: And but but it's like, you know, what, what choice

3289
03:14:14,680 --> 03:14:17,200
Speaker 1: do you have? Right? Because you're energy the energy consumption

3290
03:14:17,480 --> 03:14:21,200
Speaker 1: heat waves massively increases because you need to cool yourself down,

3291
03:14:21,240 --> 03:14:23,520
Speaker 1: you need air conditioning, you need things like fans or

3292
03:14:23,560 --> 03:14:26,000
Speaker 1: people are going to die, and so like every single

3293
03:14:26,080 --> 03:14:30,480
Speaker 1: one of these like heat waves just sort of spirals. Yeah,

3294
03:14:30,520 --> 03:14:32,440
Speaker 1: I guess the last thing I wanted to talk about

3295
03:14:32,480 --> 03:14:35,960
Speaker 1: is something that we haven't We talked about this in

3296
03:14:36,080 --> 03:14:38,880
Speaker 1: like the very very early episodes of the show, but

3297
03:14:39,000 --> 03:14:42,160
Speaker 1: like haven't talked about much sense, which is wet bulb temperature.

3298
03:14:43,160 --> 03:14:47,760
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, so for for for people who don't

3299
03:14:47,800 --> 03:14:50,960
Speaker 1: remember what this is, um, I mean we're talking a

3300
03:14:51,040 --> 03:14:52,959
Speaker 1: little bit about it earlier and that when you can't

3301
03:14:53,000 --> 03:14:55,760
Speaker 1: cool down at night, like the big things about a

3302
03:14:55,800 --> 03:15:00,440
Speaker 1: wet bulb temperature. But yeah, it's it's more complicated than that. Yeah, So,

3303
03:15:00,600 --> 03:15:02,680
Speaker 1: like I guess the basics of it is that, Okay,

3304
03:15:02,720 --> 03:15:05,560
Speaker 1: so your body like cools itself down by sweating, and

3305
03:15:05,959 --> 03:15:08,680
Speaker 1: when when the water evaporates off your skin, it cools

3306
03:15:08,720 --> 03:15:10,160
Speaker 1: you off and this is one of the big ways

3307
03:15:10,200 --> 03:15:12,480
Speaker 1: that your body sort of keeps your internal temperature under control.

3308
03:15:13,000 --> 03:15:15,760
Speaker 1: The problem basically is what if your sweat can't evaporate,

3309
03:15:16,879 --> 03:15:19,840
Speaker 1: and that that brings us to what what web bult

3310
03:15:19,920 --> 03:15:24,640
Speaker 1: wet bulb temperature is here here's NASA quote. Web bulb

3311
03:15:24,879 --> 03:15:27,400
Speaker 1: wet bulb temperature is the lowest temperature to which an

3312
03:15:27,440 --> 03:15:31,080
Speaker 1: object can cool down when moisture evaporates from it. So

3313
03:15:31,240 --> 03:15:33,640
Speaker 1: what is measuring for us is how cool our bodies

3314
03:15:33,680 --> 03:15:37,560
Speaker 1: can actually get from sweating. The problem is that at

3315
03:15:37,560 --> 03:15:39,920
Speaker 1: a web bulb temperature for about nineties seven degrees fahrenheight,

3316
03:15:39,959 --> 03:15:42,200
Speaker 1: your sweatsofts evaporating and you can't cool yourself and this

3317
03:15:42,320 --> 03:15:47,200
Speaker 1: kills you really really fast. Um. Here's NASA again talking

3318
03:15:47,280 --> 03:15:49,920
Speaker 1: to Colin Raymonds, who's from Who's I think he does

3319
03:15:49,959 --> 03:15:54,640
Speaker 1: climate stuff at the nasag Gempropulsion Laboratory. Once wet bulb

3320
03:15:54,680 --> 03:15:58,119
Speaker 1: temperature exceeds thirty five degrees celsia's or ninety five degrees fahrenheit,

3321
03:15:58,280 --> 03:16:01,039
Speaker 1: no amount of sweating or other adapt behavior is enough

3322
03:16:01,120 --> 03:16:04,400
Speaker 1: to lower your body to a safe operating temperature, said Raymond.

3323
03:16:05,000 --> 03:16:06,720
Speaker 1: Most of the time it's not a problem because the

3324
03:16:06,760 --> 03:16:10,160
Speaker 1: wet bulb temperature is usually five to tend degree celsius

3325
03:16:10,240 --> 03:16:14,640
Speaker 1: blow body temperature, even in hot, humid places. But you know,

3326
03:16:14,959 --> 03:16:16,200
Speaker 1: it's a point of no here by the way, that

3327
03:16:16,240 --> 03:16:18,000
Speaker 1: like the wet bulb wet bowl temperature is like not

3328
03:16:18,120 --> 03:16:21,440
Speaker 1: the same thing as regular temperature. Um. It's it's measuring

3329
03:16:21,520 --> 03:16:24,360
Speaker 1: something like that's different from how hot it is. And

3330
03:16:24,520 --> 03:16:26,680
Speaker 1: and it's worth noting that like the current heat waves,

3331
03:16:27,160 --> 03:16:34,360
Speaker 1: like they're really bad, but it hasn't really been hitting

3332
03:16:34,400 --> 03:16:36,760
Speaker 1: the web bowl temperature hasn't really been hitting the place

3333
03:16:37,879 --> 03:16:41,039
Speaker 1: places where they just are absolutely lethal and start killing

3334
03:16:41,080 --> 03:16:43,959
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people. But that is going to happen,

3335
03:16:44,720 --> 03:16:48,200
Speaker 1: right even even in sort of like if even even

3336
03:16:48,280 --> 03:16:51,560
Speaker 1: in even in the climate models where you know, we

3337
03:16:51,840 --> 03:16:54,600
Speaker 1: we keep emissions to like two degrees right, which which

3338
03:16:54,640 --> 03:16:56,160
Speaker 1: at this point is looking like some of the optimistic

3339
03:16:56,160 --> 03:16:57,440
Speaker 1: models like this stuff is going to happen in the

3340
03:16:57,480 --> 03:17:02,080
Speaker 1: ex third fifty years and unless something drastically changes, like

3341
03:17:02,600 --> 03:17:05,640
Speaker 1: we're we're going to watch this happen. We're gonna watch

3342
03:17:05,720 --> 03:17:08,120
Speaker 1: country city seperatures, We're going to watch enormous numbers of

3343
03:17:08,200 --> 03:17:13,360
Speaker 1: people fall over dead. And yeah, this is um this

3344
03:17:13,640 --> 03:17:15,760
Speaker 1: this is where climate change is heading and it sucks.

3345
03:17:16,000 --> 03:17:19,040
Speaker 1: And the heat waves better that are hitting China, the

3346
03:17:19,080 --> 03:17:20,680
Speaker 1: heat waves are hitting India. The heat waves and we've

3347
03:17:20,720 --> 03:17:26,119
Speaker 1: seen here are like this is this is as goodes

3348
03:17:26,240 --> 03:17:28,040
Speaker 1: is going to get. It's just going to keep getting worse.

3349
03:17:28,200 --> 03:17:30,680
Speaker 1: I guess I should back up one second and talk

3350
03:17:30,840 --> 03:17:32,360
Speaker 1: a bit about the Chinese heat wave, which is that,

3351
03:17:32,480 --> 03:17:35,800
Speaker 1: like the Chinese seat wave isn't just like it just

3352
03:17:35,920 --> 03:17:37,879
Speaker 1: a climate change thing. There's other stuff going on here.

3353
03:17:38,040 --> 03:17:41,080
Speaker 1: There's there's there's like a very specific like confluence of

3354
03:17:42,280 --> 03:17:45,840
Speaker 1: like weather phenomenon like the Indi India and stuff like

3355
03:17:45,879 --> 03:17:49,760
Speaker 1: that that like Cohen's had to coincide to make a

3356
03:17:49,800 --> 03:17:52,440
Speaker 1: heat wave this bad. But the the problem is like

3357
03:17:52,760 --> 03:17:56,840
Speaker 1: that stuff is all going to happen again, and you know,

3358
03:17:56,959 --> 03:18:01,000
Speaker 1: so we're we're gonna we're gonna get like, yeah, we're

3359
03:18:01,320 --> 03:18:06,720
Speaker 1: gonna keep getting heat waves like this, and yeah unless

3360
03:18:06,920 --> 03:18:15,920
Speaker 1: we do something differently, Yeah, I mean we won't. I mean, well,

3361
03:18:16,520 --> 03:18:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, we'll twiddle around the edges. Um. The bind

3362
03:18:20,680 --> 03:18:26,480
Speaker 1: administration snug some language into the inflation bill that might

3363
03:18:26,640 --> 03:18:29,840
Speaker 1: allow the federal government to regulate CEO to still after

3364
03:18:29,920 --> 03:18:33,680
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said they couldn't, but maybe not, could you, Chris?

3365
03:18:33,720 --> 03:18:35,880
Speaker 1: Would you why why don't we send a message to

3366
03:18:36,000 --> 03:18:38,360
Speaker 1: the people in Shanghai and let him know that that'll

3367
03:18:39,480 --> 03:18:45,480
Speaker 1: that'll help you listen to the podcast, Yeah, policymakers who

3368
03:18:45,560 --> 03:18:49,200
Speaker 1: listen to the podcast, Um, I don't know like it.

3369
03:18:49,400 --> 03:18:53,680
Speaker 1: This is it's one of those if we were to

3370
03:18:53,800 --> 03:18:56,160
Speaker 1: take if all of the policymakers who listened to our

3371
03:18:56,200 --> 03:18:59,640
Speaker 1: show were to take all of our advice immediately, um,

3372
03:19:00,000 --> 03:19:02,520
Speaker 1: and we were to transition every city away from being

3373
03:19:02,680 --> 03:19:08,320
Speaker 1: vehicle centered and like effectively cut our emissions by or more,

3374
03:19:08,959 --> 03:19:12,480
Speaker 1: we would still be locked into escalating heat waves like

3375
03:19:12,600 --> 03:19:14,520
Speaker 1: this all over the world for the rest of our

3376
03:19:14,600 --> 03:19:18,000
Speaker 1: natural lives because of the way the carbon cycle works. Um.

3377
03:19:18,400 --> 03:19:21,000
Speaker 1: Not that that wouldn't help in the long run, but

3378
03:19:21,240 --> 03:19:24,080
Speaker 1: it would certainly not. Like that's one of the things

3379
03:19:24,160 --> 03:19:26,840
Speaker 1: that's so scary about this is we're all girding ourselves

3380
03:19:26,920 --> 03:19:29,320
Speaker 1: for the inevitability that this will just become more common

3381
03:19:29,400 --> 03:19:33,320
Speaker 1: and more devastating. So true, Um, and for everyone that

3382
03:19:33,440 --> 03:19:37,119
Speaker 1: has a hard time breathing, there's always always the hope

3383
03:19:37,360 --> 03:19:41,360
Speaker 1: that via geoengineering, we can just pump more pollution into

3384
03:19:41,360 --> 03:19:44,400
Speaker 1: the air to reflect more sunlight, which will increase whole

3385
03:19:44,440 --> 03:19:47,440
Speaker 1: much of other diseases. You know, I watched the first

3386
03:19:47,680 --> 03:19:50,400
Speaker 1: seven seconds of the movie snow Piercer, and that does

3387
03:19:50,440 --> 03:19:54,600
Speaker 1: seem like an idea that would work. It's funny when

3388
03:19:54,680 --> 03:19:56,960
Speaker 1: when I was in school, I read like I read

3389
03:19:57,000 --> 03:19:59,080
Speaker 1: one of the first papers that was talking about this,

3390
03:19:59,800 --> 03:20:01,760
Speaker 1: and like the guy in the paper is like the

3391
03:20:01,840 --> 03:20:04,160
Speaker 1: opening of the paper is him literally going, this is

3392
03:20:04,200 --> 03:20:06,240
Speaker 1: a bad idea. We should only do this if there's

3393
03:20:06,280 --> 03:20:09,440
Speaker 1: literally no other choice. And then also like, this is

3394
03:20:09,480 --> 03:20:11,400
Speaker 1: the thing we do for like ten years to buy

3395
03:20:11,480 --> 03:20:13,920
Speaker 1: us more time to deal with regular climate change, and

3396
03:20:14,000 --> 03:20:16,039
Speaker 1: then as the years have gone on and as nothing

3397
03:20:16,080 --> 03:20:21,520
Speaker 1: has happened, you just gotta watch like, well, yeah, there's

3398
03:20:21,560 --> 03:20:25,320
Speaker 1: a Barack Obama's favorite book, Ministry for the Future, which

3399
03:20:25,360 --> 03:20:27,680
Speaker 1: is legitimately very good book. It's just funny that he

3400
03:20:27,840 --> 03:20:33,640
Speaker 1: likes it because it absolutely embraces terrorism in different killing politicians,

3401
03:20:33,920 --> 03:20:37,560
Speaker 1: it embraces sneaking into the house of oil and gas

3402
03:20:37,640 --> 03:20:40,840
Speaker 1: executives and murdering them in the night, as well as

3403
03:20:40,879 --> 03:20:46,000
Speaker 1: a wonky carbon crypto fucking investment portfolio. But like there's

3404
03:20:46,040 --> 03:20:47,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different ideas of that. Yeah, Like like

3405
03:20:48,040 --> 03:20:49,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the characters in that book would have

3406
03:20:49,800 --> 03:20:54,840
Speaker 1: killed Obama. Like it's yes, it's very like um. But

3407
03:20:55,080 --> 03:20:57,320
Speaker 1: one of the things that book deals with, the inciting

3408
03:20:57,400 --> 03:21:00,440
Speaker 1: incident of that book is a horrible wet bulb um

3409
03:21:00,879 --> 03:21:03,680
Speaker 1: moment in India that kills I think it's millions of

3410
03:21:03,720 --> 03:21:07,880
Speaker 1: people and just that like a nightmare disaster um. And

3411
03:21:08,200 --> 03:21:10,480
Speaker 1: one of the things the Indian government does, as a result,

3412
03:21:10,560 --> 03:21:13,400
Speaker 1: against the express wishes of the global community, is start

3413
03:21:14,000 --> 03:21:17,320
Speaker 1: like essentially like an atmosphere exceeding program in order to

3414
03:21:17,440 --> 03:21:20,360
Speaker 1: mitigate how bad the heat waves are. And like there's

3415
03:21:20,360 --> 03:21:22,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of consequences to that, And I kind of

3416
03:21:22,160 --> 03:21:24,000
Speaker 1: think one of the things that's most realistic about that

3417
03:21:24,080 --> 03:21:26,240
Speaker 1: book is as we have more ship like this happen,

3418
03:21:26,760 --> 03:21:30,440
Speaker 1: you will have nations on their own carry out climate

3419
03:21:30,520 --> 03:21:34,720
Speaker 1: mitigation efforts that could have serious effects on other countries

3420
03:21:34,760 --> 03:21:36,320
Speaker 1: because any of this stuff you do, like if you

3421
03:21:36,440 --> 03:21:39,160
Speaker 1: if you, if you seed clouds in the Southwest or

3422
03:21:39,200 --> 03:21:41,360
Speaker 1: whatever in order to increase rain, to raise the level

3423
03:21:41,400 --> 03:21:44,720
Speaker 1: of Lake mead um, that will like you can't funk

3424
03:21:44,760 --> 03:21:47,040
Speaker 1: with the water cycle like that and not have impacts

3425
03:21:47,080 --> 03:21:50,200
Speaker 1: other places. Um. And And this is a thing that

3426
03:21:50,640 --> 03:21:54,320
Speaker 1: certainly global law, like like the international legal system is

3427
03:21:54,440 --> 03:21:57,920
Speaker 1: not ready to deal with um And it's certainly something

3428
03:21:58,000 --> 03:22:00,280
Speaker 1: that our media ecosystem is not ready to deal with.

3429
03:22:00,520 --> 03:22:04,119
Speaker 1: And it will happen. This is an inevitability in my opinion.

3430
03:22:05,560 --> 03:22:06,880
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, one of the things that we do

3431
03:22:06,959 --> 03:22:10,080
Speaker 1: want to talk more about is the reaction to this

3432
03:22:10,120 --> 03:22:14,000
Speaker 1: type of thing is going to be by capitalist countries,

3433
03:22:14,040 --> 03:22:16,600
Speaker 1: and like the climate Leviathan model is going to be

3434
03:22:16,800 --> 03:22:21,039
Speaker 1: too basically privatize the atmosphere and privatize the sky um

3435
03:22:21,720 --> 03:22:29,080
Speaker 1: and different ways that conrivatize sure, but pure hate in

3436
03:22:29,160 --> 03:22:34,760
Speaker 1: your face their gear. But between all of like the

3437
03:22:34,959 --> 03:22:39,360
Speaker 1: corporate like space projects and then stuff with g engineering,

3438
03:22:39,600 --> 03:22:41,840
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be renting out sections of the atmosphere

3439
03:22:41,920 --> 03:22:45,040
Speaker 1: so that the people can pump things into uh to

3440
03:22:46,360 --> 03:22:49,600
Speaker 1: for whatever, for whatever kind of carbon neutral thing they

3441
03:22:49,680 --> 03:22:52,480
Speaker 1: want to do or pumping ship into the atmosphere is

3442
03:22:52,520 --> 03:22:54,440
Speaker 1: what got us into this problem and it's what's going

3443
03:22:54,520 --> 03:23:01,560
Speaker 1: to get us out. So true. It's uh, it's kind

3444
03:23:01,560 --> 03:23:03,240
Speaker 1: of funny that in the U s H. I don't

3445
03:23:03,280 --> 03:23:06,360
Speaker 1: know if you saw this, but like this month which

3446
03:23:06,400 --> 03:23:08,920
Speaker 1: we were recording this in August, there was a discussion

3447
03:23:08,959 --> 03:23:10,600
Speaker 1: about how the water was going to be used in

3448
03:23:10,640 --> 03:23:14,400
Speaker 1: the Colorado River by the various states that I did.

3449
03:23:14,520 --> 03:23:22,320
Speaker 1: I did read that, Yeah, very depressing report. It's it's yeah, yeah,

3450
03:23:22,480 --> 03:23:25,360
Speaker 1: I just it ended with like basically each of them

3451
03:23:25,520 --> 03:23:27,640
Speaker 1: chest stumping at each other and big like no, funk you.

3452
03:23:27,720 --> 03:23:29,640
Speaker 1: I'll take as much water as I want. I'm upstream

3453
03:23:29,680 --> 03:23:33,880
Speaker 1: of you. I think Utah were the ones particularly belligerent

3454
03:23:33,920 --> 03:23:36,560
Speaker 1: in that case. But it is the opposite of what

3455
03:23:36,720 --> 03:23:38,280
Speaker 1: we need to do. But here we are doing it.

3456
03:23:39,000 --> 03:23:43,640
Speaker 1: I was in Utah last this month looking at new

3457
03:23:43,680 --> 03:23:47,040
Speaker 1: golf courses being built by Fisher Towers sounded the desert

3458
03:23:47,080 --> 03:23:51,760
Speaker 1: there and it's great. There's a fun Okay, So Andreas

3459
03:23:51,840 --> 03:23:54,240
Speaker 1: Mom's last book before he kind of went off the

3460
03:23:54,400 --> 03:23:58,920
Speaker 1: like weird Nicole leninist rails, it was called Fossil Capital,

3461
03:23:59,040 --> 03:24:02,040
Speaker 1: and he's a interesting argument that like one of the

3462
03:24:02,120 --> 03:24:03,680
Speaker 1: reasons that we got into this mess in the first place,

3463
03:24:03,720 --> 03:24:06,280
Speaker 1: one of the reasons like country companies started adopting coal

3464
03:24:06,520 --> 03:24:09,040
Speaker 1: was that even though coal was less efficient as like

3465
03:24:09,800 --> 03:24:13,320
Speaker 1: a source of electricity than having like water mills water

3466
03:24:13,560 --> 03:24:15,640
Speaker 1: like having a succession of water mills going down the

3467
03:24:15,680 --> 03:24:19,200
Speaker 1: same river requires a bunch of different corporations to like

3468
03:24:19,400 --> 03:24:23,000
Speaker 1: coordinate with each other, and they don't want to do that.

3469
03:24:23,800 --> 03:24:27,360
Speaker 1: And because sort of like the laws around who controls

3470
03:24:27,520 --> 03:24:30,600
Speaker 1: rivers is really sort of unclear, like they were just like, now,

3471
03:24:30,640 --> 03:24:32,440
Speaker 1: screwed this where it's gonna use coal even though it's worse.

3472
03:24:32,920 --> 03:24:34,560
Speaker 1: And the fun part about this is now we get

3473
03:24:34,600 --> 03:24:37,400
Speaker 1: to get this again with like river law, where it's like,

3474
03:24:37,760 --> 03:24:40,800
Speaker 1: oh hey, it turns out that capitalists and capitalist states

3475
03:24:40,840 --> 03:24:45,200
Speaker 1: are just utterly incapable of like sharing resources with each other,

3476
03:24:45,800 --> 03:24:47,600
Speaker 1: and they're just gonna try to section off increasing in

3477
03:24:47,720 --> 03:24:51,680
Speaker 1: large parts of it, which is going to go increasingly badly. Yeah.

3478
03:24:51,720 --> 03:24:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like one of the things, you're the

3479
03:24:54,240 --> 03:24:58,080
Speaker 1: failure to be able to imagine anything that exists outside

3480
03:24:58,160 --> 03:25:03,200
Speaker 1: of a profit and loss kind of mentality. Um is

3481
03:25:03,600 --> 03:25:06,240
Speaker 1: one of the major problems that we have, like all

3482
03:25:06,320 --> 03:25:07,960
Speaker 1: over with this, like there's right now. One of the

3483
03:25:08,000 --> 03:25:10,160
Speaker 1: big stories coming out of the UK is that as

3484
03:25:10,160 --> 03:25:12,400
Speaker 1: a result of the war in Ukraine and gas prices,

3485
03:25:12,560 --> 03:25:15,640
Speaker 1: the cost of heating has risen fucking massively. This is

3486
03:25:15,680 --> 03:25:18,480
Speaker 1: a problem for all of Europe um. And a lot

3487
03:25:18,560 --> 03:25:21,320
Speaker 1: of families in the UK are looking at the numbers

3488
03:25:21,320 --> 03:25:23,680
Speaker 1: I've seen in any like four thousand and even six

3489
03:25:23,760 --> 03:25:27,320
Speaker 1: seven thousand pounds to heat their houses during the winter,

3490
03:25:27,680 --> 03:25:30,680
Speaker 1: which is like ten to fifteen thousand real dollars. It's

3491
03:25:30,680 --> 03:25:34,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money, um, and it's substantially an excess

3492
03:25:34,400 --> 03:25:36,920
Speaker 1: of of what they have been paying in the past.

3493
03:25:36,959 --> 03:25:39,400
Speaker 1: And it's like that is enough. I mean, imagine yourself

3494
03:25:39,480 --> 03:25:41,160
Speaker 1: how many people live. I mean, I guess it's a

3495
03:25:41,240 --> 03:25:44,080
Speaker 1: small fraction of people listening who could afford an extra

3496
03:25:44,160 --> 03:25:47,200
Speaker 1: ten to twelve thousand dollars in bills this winter and

3497
03:25:47,280 --> 03:25:51,000
Speaker 1: not have it completely fucked their lives up. So obviously

3498
03:25:51,160 --> 03:25:56,440
Speaker 1: people cannot pay for their heating um this winter. And like,

3499
03:25:56,640 --> 03:25:58,600
Speaker 1: if you can't pay a bill, you're not going to

3500
03:25:58,680 --> 03:26:00,360
Speaker 1: pay a bill, right, That's one of the laws of

3501
03:26:00,520 --> 03:26:02,600
Speaker 1: the iron laws of finance. Bills that can't be paid

3502
03:26:02,640 --> 03:26:04,840
Speaker 1: won't be paid. So the state is coming in, but

3503
03:26:04,959 --> 03:26:08,400
Speaker 1: the state is not. Again, these companies, basically all of

3504
03:26:08,480 --> 03:26:12,560
Speaker 1: these companies are would be essentially insolvent, like if things

3505
03:26:12,600 --> 03:26:14,880
Speaker 1: were allowed to proceed naturally. So the government's going to

3506
03:26:14,959 --> 03:26:17,280
Speaker 1: have to do something. But the thing the government isn't

3507
03:26:17,280 --> 03:26:19,360
Speaker 1: going to do is like actually nationalize any of these

3508
03:26:19,400 --> 03:26:22,400
Speaker 1: heating companies. It's it's just going to like pump more

3509
03:26:22,480 --> 03:26:25,080
Speaker 1: tax anyway. It's it's it's it's the same thing. It's

3510
03:26:25,080 --> 03:26:27,640
Speaker 1: a failure to kind of imagine anything outside of this. Well,

3511
03:26:27,680 --> 03:26:30,160
Speaker 1: maybe if capitalism has broken down around this issue, this

3512
03:26:30,280 --> 03:26:32,400
Speaker 1: isn't an issue that should continue to be in the

3513
03:26:32,520 --> 03:26:35,480
Speaker 1: hands of corporations. Yeah. Well, and but the fun part

3514
03:26:35,520 --> 03:26:38,760
Speaker 1: about this too is that like okay, it's like, well, okay,

3515
03:26:38,800 --> 03:26:41,039
Speaker 1: well okay, well nationalize this and that will save us.

3516
03:26:41,080 --> 03:26:43,600
Speaker 1: And then you look at like what do act what

3517
03:26:43,760 --> 03:26:47,240
Speaker 1: do most of the world's nationally owned corporations look like?

3518
03:26:47,760 --> 03:26:49,880
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, okay, so the government owns it

3519
03:26:50,920 --> 03:26:53,400
Speaker 1: the stock, but then it functions exactly like a normal company.

3520
03:26:54,280 --> 03:26:57,160
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying like the solution is is not

3521
03:26:57,680 --> 03:27:02,240
Speaker 1: Sorry James, You're you're the actual Britain in this room. Yes,

3522
03:27:03,160 --> 03:27:05,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny because in Britain people are living

3523
03:27:05,959 --> 03:27:09,039
Speaker 1: on state pensions or a certain other like state programs,

3524
03:27:09,080 --> 03:27:13,039
Speaker 1: state disability and stuff. Get a winter fuel allowance normally,

3525
03:27:13,640 --> 03:27:16,120
Speaker 1: and the winter fuel allowance to schedule to go up

3526
03:27:16,200 --> 03:27:18,680
Speaker 1: like like less than a tenth of that that that

3527
03:27:18,840 --> 03:27:22,280
Speaker 1: amount that you just said would be the increased in

3528
03:27:22,320 --> 03:27:24,240
Speaker 1: the cost of heating, right, And it's still sort of

3529
03:27:24,840 --> 03:27:27,279
Speaker 1: it's just so funny to see, like in theory. Britain

3530
03:27:27,360 --> 03:27:30,400
Speaker 1: has several political parties, all of them especially with labor

3531
03:27:30,480 --> 03:27:35,040
Speaker 1: under kiss DAMA like a clustered under a neoliberal consensus

3532
03:27:35,640 --> 03:27:40,360
Speaker 1: and kiss that like rather than considering doing anything, they

3533
03:27:40,440 --> 03:27:43,960
Speaker 1: are bickering over like how much of a pittance they

3534
03:27:44,000 --> 03:27:48,880
Speaker 1: want to throw to poor people. I mean, yes, yeah,

3535
03:27:49,080 --> 03:27:52,400
Speaker 1: it's also very funny that Britain did build a desalination

3536
03:27:52,480 --> 03:27:57,039
Speaker 1: plant in the Thames Estuary um and forgot to account

3537
03:27:57,120 --> 03:27:58,840
Speaker 1: for the fact that due to it being an estuary,

3538
03:27:58,959 --> 03:28:01,600
Speaker 1: the river coming in and our h the levels of

3539
03:28:02,080 --> 03:28:04,560
Speaker 1: salt in the water would change and that would make

3540
03:28:04,600 --> 03:28:09,920
Speaker 1: the deceation. And it's fucking I think it's biodiesel fueled.

3541
03:28:10,600 --> 03:28:15,560
Speaker 1: It's just awesome, it's magnificent. Yeah, we've got great leaders

3542
03:28:15,600 --> 03:28:17,880
Speaker 1: over there and we don't need to change. Yeah, no,

3543
03:28:18,080 --> 03:28:20,160
Speaker 1: you you you seem to. Whenever I think of countries

3544
03:28:20,240 --> 03:28:23,960
Speaker 1: that have their ship together, I think the UK um. Yeah,

3545
03:28:24,360 --> 03:28:26,840
Speaker 1: you've got to remember that Nazis used bicycles when you're

3546
03:28:26,840 --> 03:28:31,280
Speaker 1: considering your options for transport and climate change in the future.

3547
03:28:34,120 --> 03:28:38,960
Speaker 1: Deranged British tweets of the day. Yeah, I mean, hey, okay, look, look,

3548
03:28:39,120 --> 03:28:43,000
Speaker 1: the one the one very dim silver lining is that

3549
03:28:43,080 --> 03:28:45,480
Speaker 1: maybe this will cause the British the entire British political

3550
03:28:45,520 --> 03:28:50,040
Speaker 1: system to collapse. Happens like twice a year, right, No,

3551
03:28:50,160 --> 03:28:53,720
Speaker 1: but but collapse here? Well, like, okay, here's the thing,

3552
03:28:53,840 --> 03:28:56,400
Speaker 1: right if if you have enough people who the government

3553
03:28:56,520 --> 03:28:58,760
Speaker 1: is trying to pay their bills, they start throwing Maltov's

3554
03:28:58,800 --> 03:29:02,120
Speaker 1: that stuff like this is a it's like this, this

3555
03:29:02,280 --> 03:29:05,040
Speaker 1: is actually a pretty reliable like one of the very

3556
03:29:05,120 --> 03:29:07,800
Speaker 1: reliable things that gets people to go fight police is

3557
03:29:08,480 --> 03:29:10,720
Speaker 1: like you suddenly increased the price of gas that that

3558
03:29:10,800 --> 03:29:13,280
Speaker 1: you don't need to drive or need to like heat

3559
03:29:13,320 --> 03:29:18,920
Speaker 1: their houses. So maybe I don't know, but then British

3560
03:29:18,920 --> 03:29:20,880
Speaker 1: people will also be barking for us to send the

3561
03:29:20,959 --> 03:29:25,000
Speaker 1: troops against the people who are protesting. For the right, Yeah,

3562
03:29:25,440 --> 03:29:28,400
Speaker 1: with dignity. It's one thing we love to do. Yeah,

3563
03:29:28,879 --> 03:29:30,800
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a it's a fun it's a

3564
03:29:30,879 --> 03:29:35,640
Speaker 1: fun country. Oh yeah, it's a fun tream. Oh man,

3565
03:29:37,040 --> 03:29:41,440
Speaker 1: ye all right? Well are we are? We? Are we good?

3566
03:29:41,520 --> 03:29:43,200
Speaker 1: Have we? Have we solved this one? For all the

3567
03:29:43,240 --> 03:29:50,440
Speaker 1: policy makers who listened to our show? Yeah yeah, hit

3568
03:29:50,520 --> 03:29:54,600
Speaker 1: me up, fucking Lindsey Graham heat fan of the pod,

3569
03:29:54,840 --> 03:30:01,800
Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham. Yeah, Lindsey Graham is actually just voted to

3570
03:30:02,000 --> 03:30:06,320
Speaker 1: subsidize Molotov cocktail production. So thank you, thank you, Lindsay

3571
03:30:06,520 --> 03:30:10,120
Speaker 1: are are based fan of the policymakers who listen to

3572
03:30:10,200 --> 03:30:13,199
Speaker 1: our show. He must have been looking at the research.

3573
03:30:13,680 --> 03:30:16,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. It's the only way, it's the only real

3574
03:30:16,640 --> 03:30:23,200
Speaker 1: way to stop climate change. You to make use of

3575
03:30:23,240 --> 03:30:32,480
Speaker 1: fossil fuels cotails. Yeah. Hey, we'll be back Monday with

3576
03:30:32,760 --> 03:30:35,560
Speaker 1: more episodes every week from now until the heat death

3577
03:30:35,600 --> 03:30:38,160
Speaker 1: of the universe. It could happen. Here is a production

3578
03:30:38,200 --> 03:30:41,199
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

3579
03:30:41,320 --> 03:30:43,760
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

3580
03:30:43,840 --> 03:30:46,080
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

3581
03:30:46,200 --> 03:30:48,879
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

3582
03:30:48,920 --> 03:30:51,480
Speaker 1: for it could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone

3583
03:30:51,520 --> 03:30:54,240
Speaker 1: Media dot com slash Sources. Thanks for listening.